National 5 choices, French or not?

[wigglybeezer]

DS2 plans to go to Uni, he is talented at sciences and has struggled but improved in French (which is his least favourite). do you think he would be at a disadvantage in uni applications (probably Chemistry) not having a MFL if I let him choose geography instead?

Thinking ahead we are also considering encouraging him to do Higher history rather than Higher English in 5th year, anyone else have experience of this?

[2lol2lol]

The russel group says not a problem, there's one Uni where he'd have to take an extra language module if he doesn't arrive with GCSE in MFL. That's about all.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

Scottish parent here. No, I don't think the lack of a MFL will be a problem. My son dropped French at the end of 2nd year and he's now in 6th year with 3 conditionals for a technical subject, none of which are remotely bothered by the lack of a foreign language!

[wigglybeezer]

That's good to know, I was going to encourage him to do it as I think if he dropped it now he would struggle to pick it up later having forgotten vocab etc. but geography would be an easy Nat 5 for him and French might be a Nat 4.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

I would definitely go for Geography if I were him, although I know it's a bit trickier now that the Nat 5 choices are more limited. My Ds sat 8 Standard Grades two years ago and my my Dd sat 8 Nat 5s last year, but I don't think any schools are doing 8 subjects now.

[Lidlfix]

Not having Higher English might be more of an issue. Higher History is a good qualification and will help him to evaluate sources and structure an argument but technical accuracy of language will only be fully addressed in English. Many courses look for C minimum at Higher English in the "small print". If he is thinking about picking English up in S6 if languages are not a strong point he might struggle after a year away.

[tabulahrasa]

Pick the nat 5, While a MFL might be useful in itself, it's no use at all for uni if it costs him a Higher later.

English however is different, I wouldn't advise anyone to drop English until they're at the point that they definitely won't pass the next level exam.

[wigglybeezer]

Interesting, I know someone who got a place at medical school without higher English ( they did economics instead ).

Ds2's issues with English are complex, he is a clever boy but didn't lean to read properly until primary 5.

He also has issues with the teacher this year.

[wigglybeezer]

I think this teacher will recommend he do National 4 English next year, I would prefer him to do Nat5 ( his less academic brother managed a B at Nat 5 English last year, with a better teacher) and then possibly do a Higher over two years.

[Lidlfix]

I would ask that he be entered into a Nat 5 class. Let him have a go at the internal unit assessments, prepare a Folio etc but prepare a Nat 4 AVU (most schools get this out the way late S3 or as soon as timetable changes) as if he then fails Nat 5 he will get a Nat 4 under the positive recognition conditions. look on senior phase as a 3 year journey - what would you like him to have attained at the end of that? I agree with Tabulah completely. I see clever pupils who are Maths/Science oriented and dropped English post S4 struggle with the language complexity required for Advanced Higher never mind uni as they have stepped away from focus on language too early.

[tabulahrasa]

"Ds2's issues with English are complex, he is a clever boy but didn't lean to read properly until primary 5."

Oh definitely encourage English then...with English (and maths) you want to be thinking less of exam grades and more that they're skills supporting all the other subjects.

Any other subject I'd drop for another they're doing better in (unless they really really want to do a certain subject for a reason) but you need English itself more than a higher grade.

Do ask about a Nat 5 class, but there's nothing wrong with doing 4, 5 and then Higher in S6 for English or Maths.

I'm not currently teaching, but I have been told that Nat 5 to Higher is less of a jump than credit standard grade was anyway, so he may not need 2 years for Higher if he passes Nat 5 well.

[wigglybeezer]

All his other subjects praise his literacy skills ( and not just in science subjects ) though which confuses me rather and he is a keen reader, he reckons he has underperformed due to some rather " lively" fellow classmates disrupting the class and attempting to wind him up. the English teacher seems to blame him for being unable to ignore the banter but he has AS so it is hard for him to concentrate ( I am girding my loins to confront her about this at parents evening next week).

The poor soul also had a bad accident a year ago and has had restricted use of his dominant hand which hasn't helped with his writing / typing rate.

I have made several attempts to have this dealt with which have been deflected by the guidance teacher, I am just going to have to bite the bullet and go to someone higher up in school management. I will end up seeming like a pushy mother but I really think the English teacher has underestimated his potential and is unaware of how much he has improved in other subjects. He is not one of those kids that reaches their natural level and then plateaus he has come from behind but just keeps on improving, a tortoise rather than a hare. Luckily he is a hard worker and totally uninterested in social media!

This will be the last revision free Easter for many years in our house, I better make the most of it!

thanks all for the input.

[wigglybeezer]

As an aside, The school has dropped from 8 to 7 Nat 5's, which is better I think, it seemed to be a problem finding enough time to do a good job of eight subjects.

[tabulahrasa]

It's not basic literacy so much at this stage that would bother me...it's things like analysis as it's needed in other subjects and IMO just because of the nature of other subjects isn't covered as well outside English.

Him not being able to concentrate isn't his issue in those circumstances it's the teacher's behaviour management...AS isn't even a factor (I mean it won't help, and it's useful to point out that he can't just 'do' something like block out distractions, but the fact that those distractions are there is the issue).

Is there anything in place to compensate for his writing or typing rate?

[dotdotdotmustdash]

Re your aside...My DC school did eight subjects last year and have also dropped to 7 this year. My Dd did all eight Nat 5s but they only had 3 periods per week of each subject so she didn't achieve as well as she could in her weaker subjects. She ended up with 4xA, 2xB and 2xC, with maths being one of her Cs. My Ds managed 8 Credits the year before much more easily and with much less studying. They are tougher exams and they need a lot more input.

[wigglybeezer]

I agree dotdotmustdash.

[wigglybeezer]

He has used voice activated software at home in the past, not suitable for use in a classroom situation though.

We have not been able to do typing training due to the nature of his injury and the amount of time spent on physio but we should be able to do that over the summer holidays and we will get him a small laptop.

All may be resolved if he gets a better teacher in May.

I think 4 Highers and a Nat5 in fifth year may be the way to go as long as it isn't an issue with uni's not doing five Highers in one sitting.

[SquirrelledAway]

DS dropped English for S5, the Geography Higher course, and in particular the assignment, requires analysis and evaluation skills which would suit someone that is more science orientated. DS is looking at science or engineering courses, I don't think the lack of an English Higher should be a problem having looked at the entry requirements for courses as he has a good English Nat 5 grade.

[wigglybeezer]

Yes Squirrelled, as I mentioned before I know a boy doing medicine who doesn 't have Higher English and most English students starting science degrees don't have A-level English so, while it is essential for arts and humanities it is surely optional for science. DS has good analysis and evaluation skills in his essays for most subjects ( he gets A's).

I Have CSYS English by the way, in case anyone thinks I am biased against it.

[Passmethecrisps]

I wouldn't question a lack of MFL in any student if they had sound reasons for dropping it. I have never known a university to require it unless the course was language-based or perhaps international relations.

He should aim towards 5 nat 5s whih are as good as they can be.

[Passmethecrisps]

And the current consensus with most scottish unis is (I think) 4 Highers in one sitting is the standard.

[SquirrelledAway]

Yep, medicine at Edinburgh (for instance) requires English at standard grade or Int) it doesn't require Higher English.

I would push to make sure he does get English at Nat 5 at least.

[tabulahrasa]

It isn't that the Higher is needed for uni entry, it's that English skills are IMO.

Have they spoken to you about exam arrangements yet? As they should be the same for assessments anyway...my DS used a scribe from about S2. (he also has AS)

[wigglybeezer]

How does he get on with a scribe? I find it hard to imagine using one as I formulate and revise what I say as I write it rather than do it in my head and dictate, I would feel self- conscious with a scribe but DS would probably be OK, he dictated several chapters of a Sci- fi epic to the learning support teacher at primary school.

I am feeling more relaxed about 4 Highers in one sitting now, thanks.

I managed to do a degree and a Masters without ever having to fill in a Ucas form, write a personal statement or study a prospectus, I went to art school where you just handed in a portfolio, simple ( did have to have higher English though!).

[tabulahrasa]

Better than without one, lol...he does it in his head anyway because what he can get on paper takes too long and although my DS can type, he was still quicker with a scribe for the subjects with lots of writing.

For maths and sciences he used a combination of typing and a transcriber.

[wigglybeezer]

DS2 has always resisted typing ( and will only write in pencil! ) he was so close to finally writing at an acceptable speed when he damaged his hand, it was really frustrating ( and the OT wanted him to keep writing as much as possible to preserve remaining strength) but it is an important skill anyway, can anyone recommend a small cheap laptop or notebook?

I cannot imagine writing and memorising long passages in my head ( my memory is pants) but DS goes on what he calls "Wisdom walks" to do it! He really is a charming oddball!