secondary school admissions distance measurement

[richmal3]

I posted on another thread about how DD missed out on her first choice school by 200m. I've emailed the county council and asked them which route they used to measure it (they do it by the shortest walking route rather than as the crow flies). They've sent me a pdf of the route and say that although it isn't the route I suggested, their computer always chooses the shortest route.

I appreciate that their system is far more accurate than anything one might find online (and also that they will not accept measurements from systems other than their own), however, I have tried both routes repeatedly on various websites, and every time, regardless of the slight variation in distances between websites, mine is shorter (by about 300m). Obviously having missed out by such a short distance (on a school 18km away), then this could make all the difference.

Do I have a right to demand that they remeasure using my route? My route is completely legitimate, all on roads - it might not be the actual route you'd take if you were driving but my understanding is that that doesn't matter - the only issue is whether a legitimate route exists, not whether anyone would be likely to go that way.

If they won't remeasure, would this be grounds for appeal? Or is there any way of getting a measurement done using their (GIS) system - are there any companies that would do such a measurement for you?

[Blu]

The school's admissions policy should explain exactly how they define a route. Often schools say 'shortest safe walking route' and specify that this means a lit footpath. As I understand it some LAs do not allow routes along roads where there is no pavement.

A school in S London was obliged to change it's policy after a class action by parents got it ruled that a popular footpath and through a supermarket car park constituted a route, and this changed the catchment considerably.

Also check where they measure to: front gate, Centre of school site or other measurement. This could account for 100m of difference or more for a school with big grounds.

But all these factors should be explained in the admissions policy.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm no expert but I'd say it's good grounds for an appeal.

[VivaLeBeaver]

And you're right that the likely route doesn't matter, it's the legitimate route. When we appealed for dd I looked at all possible routes to school. Sadly I couldn't find a shorter one, the one the school used was the shortest......down little country lanes which nobody would actually ever use.

[Artistic]

You have nothing to lose but time if you approach the school with your route & even appeal if needed. It's definitely worth a try. But as PP said, other children may qualify for spaces owing to your route - leaving your DD out anyways. Just be prepared for that.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I might be wrong but if a new route means that a child on the opposite side of town who has been offered a place lives further away than the OPs child then I think everyone who lives closer than that child could successfully appeal.....even if that's 20 kids.

[MillyMollyMama]

When I worked in admissions, we used to have a measuring wheel and walk the route(s) with the parents and agree what was a safe walking route and which was not. Did not have computer maps in those days. This bit of kit might help you though!

[richmal3]

thanks for all the replies which are very helpful. Admissions are done by county council who measure along shortest walking route - ie they count any road or footpath you can walk down. My route is all along proper surfaced roads you can drive down so absolutely no question that it's legitimate. As for measuring it, I've had a friend offer to drive the route and measure it that way but the council won't accept anything but their own calculations, although if we did that I guess it might add a bit of weight to an appeal.

I'd be interested if anyone could dig out the case tiggytape refers to about children being given allocations based on faulty measurement.

[admission]

There is no doubt that the computer systems used by the LA will be more accurate than any maps or car journey that you can carry out.
Experience on school appeals with different authorities says that straight line distance measures are always less hassle at appeals than shortest walking route etc. Usually the LA state that this is by approved routes only to ensure that unofficial pathways etc are not counted in, but even that is open to challenge and as Blu has said it can be challenged and won on.

I accept you say that your route is on open roads etc and is 18km but the first thing to check is that the LA are not putting any restrictions in place on particular roads. If you PM me the school and LA I can check what is in place. I can also give you a private email to mail the pdf route from the LA as it would be useful to see that.

I am also surprised that having approached the LA that they are taking a somewhat belligerent attitude to your comments. Usually they are very good at checking out suggested routes and coming back as to why they are not appropriate and even sometimes in accepting an error has bee made.

If there is no obvious reason on checking the LA detail as to why your route is not being allowed then you should go back in writing and say you think an error has been made and ask for reconsideration. If they refuse in writing then that is excellent reasons for going to appeal over it. The negative is that if there is a problem then the admission appeal panel will probably have to adjourn the appeal panel to get the LA to rerun the computer projections to accommodate your route.That will apply to all applicants for the school, so whilst it might reduce your distance it may also reduce a lot of applicants distances. If on reconsideration you do then become within the number of available places it will be most probable that a place will be offered but there is never a guarantee.

[richmal3]

thanks, admission, that's useful. I didn't mean to suggest the LA was being belligerent, if that was the way my original post came across - I was just trying to figure out what the options were if that situation arose.

I'm still waiting to hear whether they will remeasure: they haven't refused to do so but just stated (twice) that their computer 'always' chooses the shortest route which led me to wonder whether they would agree to checking out my route. I've spoken to a number of people who drive this route regularly and they're all amazed the LA is saying that as they all go the other way (ie my route) as they think it's shorter. If I hear back from the LA and they're refusing to remeasure, I will PM you all the details.

I hadn't thought about how if our measurement was wrong, then the recalculation would have to be also applied to other children who missed out because of distance. I assume though that if the last child admitted on distance (at 18181m) lives in the opposite direction to us, and their distance is not affected, then that potentially means they have to offer places to all the children who suffered from their miscalculation and now turn out to live closer than 18181m?

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

This might be the case Tiggy was referring to. I'm sure there were a couple of threads about it at the time as well.

[TalkinPeace]

Crow flies is not always relevant : when there is a motorway running through the catchment

Mapping software is great but does not know about anomalies like a lovely footbridge blocked for many years with bales of barbed wire

Walking the routes with a measuring wheel is the best even in this day and age

[prh47bridge]

I will happily take a look at the details as well if you want another opinion.

If there are a number of children affected the LA will either have to offer places to all of them or send them all to appeal and let the appeal panel sort it out. The fundamental question is how many pupils the school can handle. They can't throw anyone out to make space for the children who should have got places.

TalkinPeace is correct that any software is only as good as the data it is given. If it doesn't know about a route it will miss it. It may also use a route which is now blocked. So the data needs to be checked carefully. But, once you've got the right route, software will be far more accurate than any other means of measuring.