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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary education

Dd doesn't have a maths teacher

82 replies

dingit · 09/10/2014 20:56

Yr11, 10 of class got GCSE last year, now doing additional maths. They sit in with the class doing GCSE work, with one teacher, who naturally take up most of the teachers time. They don't seem to do a lot during the lesson, they do some self study, but are still just getting used to this way of working. They then have a lesson after school once a week with the teacher.
I keep emailing in to complain, but no one really seems concerned, dd seems to be wasting her year. Anyone got any idea what to do?

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JeanSeberg · 09/10/2014 20:57

Don't emails, make an appointment to go in and speak to someone.

Has your daughter already got her gcse?

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/10/2014 21:00

There's a huge shortage of maths teachers in some areas and schools are having to compromise. It's not right but the schools themselves are stuck.

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PenelopePitstops · 09/10/2014 21:05

Agree with oh you bad. Maths teachers are few and far between so school are probably compromising. It's a shit situation but what happens when the education system is as it is.

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duhgldiuhfdsli · 09/10/2014 21:10

Did she get an A* by doing it early?

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CrazyHorse · 09/10/2014 21:15

What is additional maths?

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duhgldiuhfdsli · 09/10/2014 21:45

If the OP actually means additional maths, in the shape of the OCR FSMQ "Additional Maths", then it's a cut-down version of C1 and bits of C2 and S1 from A Level, with some more subtle and tricky stuff from GCSE taken a step further. The idea is that it can be delivered in a year (say 120 hours) in schools, usually grammars or very large comps, that can put whole class sized groups through GCSE a year early, get 100% A* (otherwise what's the point in doing it a year early) and get on with the run-in to A Level. Some serious people think it's something between a waste of time and an actively bad thing, because it can put off children who would do A Level perfectly well a year later.

It's notionally a level above GCSE so that it attract a (tiny number of) UCAS points, but the subset of children who are doing it and the subset of children who are applying to universities that admit by UCAS points are non-intersecting.

For what it's worth, children who get straight A* at GCSE and go on to get A or above in A2 maths and further maths often don't get A (the top grade) in the FSMQ, even when it's taught well in a full-sized GCSE block. it's a challenging syllabus and a very challenging paper (the C boundary can be as low as 35%, the A boundary is rarely above 65%) and the idea that people can self-teach it at the back of the room seems dubious. OP, what results is the school getting?

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dingit · 09/10/2014 22:39

Yes I do mean additional maths and dd actually got an A, was 3 marks off an A which she passed in year 9. They spent all last year doing additional ( yr 10), with the same teaching arrangement, they put them in for the exam, and surprise surprise she got a U. It knocked her confidence for six ( happily the next week she picked up A for double science with very high marks)
Her grades have improved this year, but I'm of the view, what's the point in doing the exam?
And yes there is a shortage of maths teaches, one yr 8 class have 60 in a class with one teacher.
The academy's results weren't great last year, they have high hopes for this year, as they have a lot of potential.

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dingit · 09/10/2014 22:40

Apparently their maths teacher admitted to getting a D, then went on to get a first in maths at university.

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duhgldiuhfdsli · 09/10/2014 22:47

"dd actually got an A, was 3 marks off an A* which she passed in year 9"

That's an A then.

Why do schools do this? Your daughter got a A, instead of the A* she's obviously capable of, and has now spent two years neither learning very much nor getting a meaningful qualification. If she's going to do A Level Maths, she's no better off. If she's not going to do A Level Maths, she's no better off. The school needs to give itself a good talking to.

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Coolas · 09/10/2014 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dingit · 10/10/2014 07:24

Duigi, agreed. She is going to do A level maths, and the sixth form college seemed to think that the additional would give her some grounding, so hopefully not completely wasted.

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duhgldiuhfdsli · 10/10/2014 07:32

The bottom line is that schools can't Magic Maths teachers out of thin air.

So why compound that problem by attempting to deliver additional qualifications? As a bare minimum, delivering FSMQ Addition Maths requires 90 teacher hours. If they don't have it, they shouldn't try.

Entering children for GCSE maths in Year 9 is almost certainly not in the children's interest (as here). Doing so without a resourced "what's next?" plan compounds the offence.

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dingit · 10/10/2014 07:41

Duigi, are you a maths teacher? What do you suggest? Should she resit?
I suggested she just concentrate on her other subjects, only giving the exam a shot if she gets say a c in her mock?

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/10/2014 07:44

if she is a keen mathematician then it would be a mistake for her to not put effort into maths - its hard to pick up after a relative break - and it would be a waste of her talent.

Its not an ideal situation, but it is what it is now. Is there any possibility that you could consider a tutor for her?

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dingit · 10/10/2014 07:55

I did think of a tutor kitten, but don't really want to add pressure. I don't mean give up on maths entirely, just not to beat herself up over the additional maths.
She does actually seem more confident this term, after me having to mop up Niagara Falls when she opened her results in August.
Actually, I think it may actually have done some good, it's shown her how hard it is to fail, and those high grades don't come easy!

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 10/10/2014 07:59

It's much easier to learn about failure now than it is at uni - thats for sure!
You may need to shop around a bit for a tutor - you'll be the boss, so you can say exactly what you want out of it - maybe just a few sessions to explain things she doesnt get. A good one shouldnt add to pressure, other than balancing time, which can be tricky if they are a busy sort of person.
If she can crack this, then a-level maths will be much easier - its a really fast pace at college and kids find it a big jump up. Further maths (when done well) can just give them a bit of breathing space.

What sort of resources do you have for her?

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dingit · 10/10/2014 08:04

Yes I've already explained what a shift up in gear a levels are.
No other resources, other than her dad, a talented mathematician.

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summerends · 10/10/2014 08:06

dingit is she thinking of doing maths or even chemistry / physics at A level? That would make a difference to advice at this point.

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dingit · 10/10/2014 08:42

Yes summer, all of those!

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duhgldiuhfdsli · 10/10/2014 10:46

Duigi, are you a maths teacher?

No, I'm a lecturer in a subject that requires A Level maths, so I've looked in detail at syllabuses, as well as having children doing A level maths.

What do you suggest? Should she resit?

If she's wanting to do A Level maths, then any study of FSMQ is worthwhile in isolation. If she understands the material, she'll cruise through C1 and have a head start on C2. However, if that's at the expense of time and effort spent on other GCSEs, then the FSMQ isn't the best way to use limited time.

The FSMQ as a qualification in its own terms is of limited value. If she's got to spend the time in the classroom, then she should work on the stuff she understands or thinks she can understand, and not worry too much about the stuff she just doesn't get. It'll presumably be properly taught next year.

And, just to be controversial, if I had a child with a GCSE A in maths taken early, who was sat in a classroom in which GCSE maths was being taught, I'd be tempted to have them retake GCSE maths to get an A*. She presumably hasn't done GCSE maths now for eighteen months and only got an A anyway: the thing that stops A Level students stone dead in their first month is apparently algebra, just being able to be completely reliable in manipulating terms, surds, factorising, etc, etc. Given the choice between 100% UMS in GCSE maths and scraping a C or D in FSMQ, it would be interesting to know which would provide a better basis for A Level.

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summerends · 10/10/2014 11:41

I was wondering the same, a resit of her maths GCSE because the A* might be important for university application.
A tutor every couple of weeks could relieve pressure rather than increasing it Does her father have the time to provide the same type of extra input ( and is good at explaining)?

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noblegiraffe · 10/10/2014 14:50

I agree that she would be better off participating in the maths lessons and aiming for a good A* in her GCSE maths than attempting and failing to teach herself a very difficult course and being put off maths, then struggling with A-level due to having not being taught maths for two years.

This set-up sounds appalling. No wonder she got a U first time around, what a waste of her time.

(maths teacher)

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dingit · 10/10/2014 14:54

That's interesting that you all think she should resit. I think I may be talking to her maths teacher. Thank you.

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hellsbells99 · 10/10/2014 16:47

I would have a look at the Edexcel level3 algebra workbook and work through that as both my DDs have found that a very good grounding ready for AS maths. I am speaking as a parent. DD1 took Gcse in year 10 and 'only' got an A but she still got an A in AS maths and only dropped 7 marks in total over the C1 and C2 papers. I personally wouldn't worry about your DD doing any maths exam this year but put in work ready for AS level, and concentrate on her other Gcses.

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noblegiraffe · 10/10/2014 17:04

A lot of A/A* work at GCSE will be on C1 and C2: quadratic formula, completing the square, quadratic simultaneous equations sine/cosine rule, transformation of functions, trig graphs. So the class she is in will be being taught things that she will need for A-level that she probably failed to grasp in Y9. There is definite value in her paying attention and working at this.

However, there is also value in doing some studying alongside GCSE to top up her algebra as there is a big leap between GCSE and A-level and this is where a lot of students struggle. The algebra workbook sounds like a good idea.