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Secondary education

If you have a child with emotional & behaviour problems... WWYD?

22 replies

lljkk · 23/09/2014 11:29

Sorry, long. Thx if you reach the end.

DS has history of exclusion (age 6) and recurring issues everywhere he goes, explosively defiant, strangers moan about his behaviour, has been kicked out of clubs, has PDA traits perhaps. He'll never tick anybody's boxes to get a diagnosis & anyway, SN or being on SENR makes no difference to severity of disciplinary procedures at the high schools. Not now but DS was previously on SENR twice (speech & behaviour). High ability at math & some sport, avg at everything else.

3 weeks into yr6 and we haven't been asked to speak to DS's teacher at all about behaviour (probably jinxing that as I type). This is nothing short of miraculous. Probably overwhelmingly down to, after yrs of social isolation, now being in a gang with 3-4 other friends for last 6 months.

But in 5 weeks we have to choose a secondary, argh! I just wish he could have another yr at primary. Anyway, choices are:

School A) Local, his friends will almost certainly all go here, plenty of people are happy with it, and seems to have better comms with parents than the other 2 high schools older DC attend. At very least he could walk to school with 2 of his mates (assuming they stay mates). If we have to go talk to school often about issues, won't be huge amount of travelling. Intake about 160/yr. We have bad history with neighbours who send their kids here & I am nervous they might pick on DS (but seems unlikely, different yr groups & gender).

School B) 10 miles away, transport costs therefore about ÂŁ600/yr, Widely well regarded & oversubscribed but DD goes here (loves it) so DS could probably get in. Intake about 205/yr. No friends will get in here. When DS still in yr10 could give his younger brother chance to get in yr7. DS could get kicked off the bus service which would make it impossible.

DS is going to have huge problems at secondary, no matter where he goes. I thought School B) was better bet because it gave him a fresh start, the kids he pissed off their parents wouldn't live locally so we'd have a peaceful retreat, he could switch to A) if B) really didn't work out. But increasingly I see how valuable the friends are... but of course he might not see friends at all if he went to A), there are no guarantees whether the friendships will last.

DS finds it very hard to make friends (obviously).

If you have a similar difficult child, which school do you think you'd choose?

OP posts:
mumslife · 23/09/2014 12:22

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mumslife · 23/09/2014 12:25

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lljkk · 23/09/2014 14:44

Sorry, I do appreciate reply but I wish MNers weren't so obsessed with getting a diagnosis. It just isn't relevant to my decision.

are you sure he wouldnt get a diagnosis of anything?

Am sure. CAMHS assessed him twice this year, including just 3 weeks ago & dismissed him as not meeting criteria for anything. Apparently he's normal and I'm just spoilt about his difficult behaviour because my other kids are so easy. (sigh). Schools here don't refer for SN unless they are below target. He won't work with a counsellor, anyway, and everyone is adamant that there's no point in a diagnosis if he won't cooperate.

I'm quite impressed that you say it would help immensely. I spoke to SEN dept. at School B (supposed to have best SN provision) & they were quite adamant that SN or being on SENR was very irrelevant to expected behaviour standards and disciplinary penalties.

OP posts:
Gunznroses · 23/09/2014 15:12

OP can you HE? it seems like you've looked at all possible options via the school route. He clearly has needs that cannot bot boxed into anyone category but also has good academic potential, it would be a shame to lose all that.

crazymum53 · 23/09/2014 15:32

Sorry to answer by asking more questions, but hope it help with your decision.
Has your ds expressed any preference for the school that he would like to attend?
Which school do you think would best be able to cope with a difficult child: the school you know (B) or the other school?
Which school caters best for his favourite sport?
If he went to school A would you be wishing you'd tried B and constantly comparing the 2 schools?
It's a really good sign that you haven't been summoned by his Y6 teacher yet by the way - could it be a sign that things are going to improve.
I cannot be sure what I would do, only have one child. But think that I would prefer my children to be at the same school if at all possible. I would rather try this and move him later than the other way round.
Hope that makes sense.

Georgethesecond · 23/09/2014 15:37

School buses are an added complication you don't need, I think. I'd go for the nearer school with the better communication, with the added bonus he might kick off less through anxiety at first as he will have mates to go with (even if he finds new mates in year seven as well as them).

inthename · 23/09/2014 15:46

I'd go for school A, on the basis its not such a large intake, no need for the added stress of school buses and hopefully he will still have a connection to some others going there. Good news about year 6 so far, I found with mine his behaviour got better as he progressed through the years as the teachers expect them to take on a bit more responsibility.

tethersend · 23/09/2014 17:05

How does he feel?

Would he wonder why he wasn't going to the same school as his sister? Or would he prefer to stay with his friends? Given his difficulties, I would be wary of sending him to a school he did not want to go to in case he takes matters into his own hands and attempts to sabotage it by getting excluded.

Planning ahead, the comments from school B about SEN (not sure what SENR is, sorry- am referring to children with statements of SEN or EHC plans) having no bearing on discipline would concern me, as schools are required by law to consider whether behavioural difficulties are the result of unmet needs before deciding to exclude.

I would also think about which school would be easier to get into should he be excluded from the other one IYSWIM. Hopefully you won't need to do this, but it's worth considering just in case.

tethersend · 23/09/2014 17:10

Sorry if my post sounds negative- it's not meant to.

You may also want to consider the value of sending him to a school where you are known as a parent to a child with no behavioural difficulties. This could avoid the lazy assumption that your DS's difficulties are down to your parenting, as you may want to revisit a diagnosis/EHC as he gets older. Of course, his behaviour may improve dramatically at secondary school; some children who find primary school difficult positively thrive in the secondary environment.

Trollsworth · 23/09/2014 17:13

I would go with school A, simply because one of my friends has had a child booted from transport every other month and she can barely get anything done because of taking him to school, and certainly couldn't have a job.

mumslife · 23/09/2014 17:47

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mummytime · 23/09/2014 18:35

I suggest you go to both schools and talk to their SENCOs. If your DS has those kind of behavioural issues he should be on the special needs register (or whatever they replace it with). Lots of children at secondary school are there just because of behavioural issues, some have underlying SN others have other issues in their lives.

All things being even I would go for the closer one, but are they equal?
What are your DS's thoughts? What does he want to do? What does he enjoy?

Coolas · 23/09/2014 18:53

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skylark2 · 23/09/2014 20:00

I'd suggest you go talk to school A about the situation (maybe enlisting the help of his current teacher so they know you're not just being precious about his friendship group). You don't want to send him somewhere because he functions better with his friends only to find the school's put them all in different classes (possibly at the request of his friends' parents if they think he's a bad influence :( )

TeenAndTween · 23/09/2014 20:25

Hi,

I would go with school A. I thought that from your first post due to proximity and intake size, but your follow up re SEN department in school B clarified it.

My DD1 is adopted and our first and foremost concern when we looked at secondaries was pastoral care. Her school seems really caring about the individual pupils, and has various systems in place if they are struggling emotionally. Although her behaviour is very good, she went through a rough patch emotionally, and was able to leave lessons to calm down.

You need somewhere that is understanding who will work with you (and your current primary too maybe). If they are going to take a one size fits all approach to behaviour then this could cause issues.

awfulomission · 23/09/2014 20:39

Re. your point about school B's insistence that their behaviour policy applies to all children regardless of SEN - I doubt they would have said anything else to a parent.

In practise you may find things are rather different.

I'd plump for school B myself but I would ask your DS too. Some friendships survive secondary transition and some don't and moving him to a school largely because his current friends are going there too may prove counterproductive.

I love that my DCs have friends out of school from their old schools. If things are going badly in school for them they know they have an old, safe group of friends to return to.

lljkk · 23/09/2014 21:45

Thx 4 replies.

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 23/09/2014 22:10

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mummytime · 23/09/2014 22:44

My DCs senior school would say being on the SEN register makes no difference to their discipline code BUT they do bend over backwards to help students stick to comply with the code. This involves a lot of SEN support, TAs, cards for different needs (and a culture where having a card is nothing to comment on or be embarrassed about), special sessions, counsellors, lunch groups, teachers giving up time and so on. If your child didn't need any of it you might only have the vaguest idea what is going on.
I have known a child be virtually excluded, but a teacher took on mentoring them and helped them turn themselves around. Another arrived having been expelled from a private school, was given some leeway in some areas, but expected to shape up in others (had a really sad back story).

I have found that on the whole Senior schools deal much better than primary, and with much bigger issues.

IrianofWay · 24/09/2014 09:45

DS2 hasn't got a diagnosis either but no-one who knows him doubts that there is 'something' going on. He has just started at the same school DS1 and DD went too.

It is just down the road (literally 100yds) which he finds makes it easier - I really don't think he's cope with a long commute. Bear in mind also that a coach journey is a really good place for problems to occur - I can remember some fairly spectacular nastiness on the coach to and from my 'nice' girl's school.

I have the SENCO a head's up last term - I wanted her to be aware that there were problems even if they weren't officially recognised.

I'd go for school A.

mumslife · 24/09/2014 12:08

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mumslife · 24/09/2014 12:09

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