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I've just been talking to the Head of English at ds's school about the new Govelvels

122 replies

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 12:58

... And she says she reckons that to be on target for a 9 (the top mark) a year 8 would have to be finishing the year.on an 8c. She reckons that a child like mine, who has finished year 8 on a 6a and would have been on target for an A- possibly A*- will now be predicted a 7-possibly just an 8.

It will be very interesting to see how the press cover this when the time comes. And how parents used to their kids getting top marks deal with it!

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 17/07/2014 13:09

Only half of those getting an A* would be expected to get a 9, I think.

It's because too many were getting A*s and top universities couldn't possibly differentiate between them all.

tiggytape · 17/07/2014 16:49

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SarcyMare · 17/07/2014 16:52

tiggy, your friend is correct

SarcyMare · 17/07/2014 17:00

sorry post halfway
the value of a grade that 25% of the students get is pretty devalued all by itself.

tiggytape · 17/07/2014 17:07

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noblegiraffe · 17/07/2014 17:12

Schools don't ask for a minimum of an A at GCSE maths to artificially cap the numbers taking it, we ask for a minimum of an A at GCSE because kids who only get a B usually can't cope with A-level and fail or drop out. I say usually, because there are always exceptions.

tiggytape · 17/07/2014 17:47

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tiggytape · 17/07/2014 17:53

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AtiaoftheJulii · 17/07/2014 19:04

I've got a y8 as well, so am going to be interested to see what does actually appear in the next 3 years. GCSEs are all terminal already now, so that won't be a change. But e.g. for the linear maths GCSE, you only need about 85% for an A, 70% for an A, about 50-55% for a B, 25-30% for a C. In maths, where some kids do get 99-100%, it seems reasonable that there should be a level that reflects that. If you can get 3/4 of the questions wrong and still pass, I think that is devalued already. My dd2 did OCR Gateway separate science GCSEs this summer - you only need about 65% for an A. That also seems a trifle ridiculous.

AuntieStella · 17/07/2014 19:10

Well, it was different marking back then. You didn't have to reach a certain %age, you had to be in the top 10%.

TalkinPeace · 17/07/2014 20:14

It is not possible or appropriate to compare grades when the Normal Distribution was used with those on the benchmark system.

In Chemistry A level last year, more than 50% of the candidates got A or A*

the justification being that all those kids are really bright to be taking Chemistry.

What is NOT clear about the 1-9 levels is how the boundaries will be set - political pressure and all that

tiggytape · 17/07/2014 20:18

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Shouldwego · 18/07/2014 08:00

Wow, thanks for this. I really hadn't realised there would be so much difference. DS is yr8 and on 6a/b for most subjects, will have to get used to the idea he won't be on A grade path.

pointythings · 18/07/2014 11:23

85% for an A* does seem ridiculously low.I grew up in the Dutch system, which has scores ranging from 1 to 10 - a 6 is a pass, everything else is a fail. It does work with decimals and for your exams, all your scores count so controlled assessments in school are half your mark (average of all these) and your central exams are the other half. (both scores added and averaged, 5.5 = a 6 so a pass.)

To get the top mark of a 10, you need 95%. I think that's reasonable. They don't grade on a curve though, it's about getting a % of the answers right. They seem to manage a reasonably normal distribution of marks though, so there's some decent exam setting going on.

LewisNaiceHamilton · 18/07/2014 12:19

Surely grades are meant to reflect how well you've grasped a subject, not how well you've grasped it compared to your peers. Confused


Will a bright student in a less bright than usual cohort be at an advantage compared to one in a very able cohort, when five years down the line they're going for the same post?

LewisNaiceHamilton · 18/07/2014 12:21

Or have I just completely misunderstood this?

TalkinPeace · 18/07/2014 13:30

Lewisnaice
That has NEVER been the case.
The raw percentage is how well you have done.
The grade awarded to that percentage has always gone through a moderation process.

In my day it was the normal distribution, then grade inflation took off, now its being nudged back towards the normal distribution but not fully.

Littleturkish · 19/07/2014 09:42

www.jcq.org.uk/Download/examination-results/gcses/gcse-and-entry-level-certificate-results-summer-2013

I think it's worth looking at the actual data- PP said up thread that 25% we're getting As, and this seemed crazy to me. I checked, and cumulative percentages show the top 3.3% get As for lang and 5% for lit.

I'm not a mathematician, so if I've misunderstood this please correct me- but does this not mean that the top grades only went to the top 3% of students?

TalkinPeace · 19/07/2014 13:27

Littleturkish
On your link
Chemistry .... 42% A/A*
English .... 15% A/A*
English Literature .... 23% A/A*
Additional Maths ..... 40% A/A*
Physics ..... 46% A/A*

LadyIsabellaWrotham · 19/07/2014 13:33

Interesting table. What leaps out at me are the enormous gender differences in achievement %s at the top end of some subjects. I wonder if the Govelevels will water that down a bit.

TalkinPeace · 19/07/2014 13:39

Unlikely because the bell curve of IQ is wider and flatter for boys than it is for girls

Boys will always whump girls in certain topics and vice versa due to basic human neurology.

ElephantsNeverForgive · 19/07/2014 13:43

I didn't think Y8's were effected by these changes. I thought they came in the year after.

Sod. DD2 would get a/a* at present, she will be furious (and liable to do less work) if she can't get top grades.

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noblegiraffe · 19/07/2014 13:54

Talkin, not sure what point you are trying to make with the subjects you have selected. Of course subjects like additional maths, chemistry and physics would expect a much higher percentage of A*/As than other subjects, because they are selective. Only bright kids are allowed to take them. The only non-selective subject on your list is English.


It's like pointing out that a grammar school has a high percentage of A*/A results

noblegiraffe · 19/07/2014 13:57

As for boys whumping girls, girls beat boys in all subjects A*-C except maths, and boys only beat girls in maths since coursework was scrapped.

Exam design counts for a lot. Now that coursework is being scrapped in most subjects, expect to see boys doing better.

TalkinPeace · 19/07/2014 13:57

noble
My point was that if I'd printed the percentages for the year I took GCEs it would have been 10% ~ 10% ~ 10% etc - because the percentage the child gets in the exam does not lead directly to the grade

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