Appeal advice needed

(28 Posts)
Zingy123 Thu 17-Apr-14 08:40:45

What information will the panel have on the day?
I want to use parts of the Schools Admission Code and the School's own admissions policy. Do I need to copy these and send them with my appeal or will they have them already? In my written submission I have copied the relevant paragraphs.

Waiting lists
Can I just check I have this information right please. Any rejected places must go to the child at the top of the waiting list the day the rejection is received and not whoever is top of the list the day the reoffer is made. I believe they gave places to children at the top of the list 4 weeks after original offer day in the second round (still have no proof of this as school is shut for two weeks and they refused this information before when I asked)

Do the school get sent my appeal submission information including my evidence?

School is shut until 28th April.
Clerk is away until 29th April.
Clerk wants information in by 30th April.

Surely the school and clerk should be available to help now, it doesn't leave much time to get information to clerk who is based in another town miles away.

Thank you for any help

prh47bridge Thu 17-Apr-14 13:37:15

The panel will be familiar with the Admissions Code. How do you want to use it? Do you think a mistake has been made?

The panel will also be familiar with the school's admissions policy.

Regarding places on the waiting list it depends what their admission arrangements say. In the absence of anything specific then yes, places should go to whoever is top of the waiting list at the time the place became available.

If the school is not an academy or VA school they may not be involved in the appeal process at all. Whoever is representing the admission authority will be sent your submission and your evidence. You will also receive their submission and evidence.

Do you have a date for the hearing? If not the 30th April deadline is not your final chance to get information to the clerk.

What help do you want from the school and clerk?

Zingy123 Thu 17-Apr-14 13:53:29

Thanks. The schools own policy states places will be allocated as they become available.

The school is an academy but the LA offer the places on their behalf.

The LA has information on their website stating that people applying or people changing their preferences from 1st November to 17th March will be entitled to places reallocated in the second round. This was done 31st March. Responses had to be back by 17th March.

We were 5th place from 3rd March-24th March. On 31st March they reoffered 8 places but they had moved us to 10th place so missed out on an offer.

I want information from the school on the dates of people declining their places and date of application.

I have sent information to the clerk and want confirmation she has received it.

Appeal is 19th May but clerk asked for information to be in by 30th April.

admission Thu 17-Apr-14 19:26:37

The panel will definitely want to know exactly what happened in terms of when places were initially offered, when places were rejected and when they were reallocated.
If the admission process states that there will be a second allocation on the 31st March then the normal procedure would be that no re-allocations will take place until that date, that is from March 1st when the places were initially allocated. It is perfectly reasonable for the LA to take those few weeks to allow all who have been offered places to accept or decline the offered place and to put themselves on the waiting list.
Whilst you may have been 5th on the waiting list on the 24th, it would not be unknown for 5 more people to apply for a place at the school who had a higher admission priority than you between the 24th and the 31st.
Whilst I accept that you can run an argument at appeal that you should have been offered a place because places were rejected in the time from 1st March to the 24th March which would have meant you should have been offered a place prior to that date, if the official admission process says there will be a second round of allocation on the 31st March then I do not believe that you have a viable case, as that is when the waiting list will be used to allocate places.
However you do need to be sure in your own mind that the allocations were carried out correctly and the way to do that is to go to appeal. My suspicion is that you will not get all the detail of when places became available etc until the date of the appeal but you should ask for them now, to give you the maximum time to consider whether they were handled correctly.

Zingy123 Thu 17-Apr-14 20:47:09

Thank you. Hoping our other reasons are enough,

Zingy123 Sat 19-Apr-14 09:01:16

If by any chance our appeal is upheld at stage 1 do they still do stage 2?

This will be a multiple appeal of about 60 then individual stage 2 on another day.

Also they say we will hear within a week. Is that a week from my individual stage 2 appointment or a week from the last appointment?

Thank you for any advice.

tiggytape Sat 19-Apr-14 11:14:56

If your appeal is upheld at Stage 1 then that is the end of the process and you have a place.
If it goes to stage 2, you normally hear a week after the last appeal. The panel are not allowed to make any decisions until all the appeals have been heard as in some cases they have to get to the stage of directly comparing one appeal case with another (if for example they decide the school can take 9 more pupils and they think 15 people appealing have a strong case, they have to narrow it down to just 9 appeals allowed and reject 6)

Zingy123 Sat 19-Apr-14 11:16:08

Thanks tiggytape. Just wish it was all over.

tiggytape Sat 19-Apr-14 11:21:34

I know Zingy123 - it is a long enough wait to get the results in March without adding an extra few months for waiting lists and appeals. It can be a very hard and long process for parents.

Zingy123 Sat 19-Apr-14 11:47:33

You and the other admissions gurus make it a bit easier your help is very much appreciated.

tiggytape Sat 19-Apr-14 12:01:12

Thanks Zingy123 - everyone here is happy to help and I'm glad it makes the waiting a bit easier smile

prh47bridge Sat 19-Apr-14 20:24:12

If there are about 60 appeals being heard it is unlikely any of them will be upheld at stage 1 unless there was a mistake affecting only that child. Even if there is no prejudice in admitting one or two additional children it is very unlikely the school could cope with nearly 60 so the panel will need to hear stage 2, even if it is only so they can compare cases and decide which children to admit.

Zingy123 Sat 19-Apr-14 23:03:10

Thanks smile

Nennypops Sun 20-Apr-14 08:18:32

If your appeal is upheld at Stage 1 then that is the end of the process and you have a place.

Not necessarily. It can happen that the panel decides at stage 1 that something has gone wrong at the allocation stage and that that affects a number of appellants, but the school can't possibly take that number. I agree with prh47.

Zingy123 Sun 20-Apr-14 11:04:38

Can I use a proposed extension in my appeal or would that not count until it had been built?

Thanks

Zingy123 Sun 20-Apr-14 11:28:39

Also the school has increased the PAN by 30 this year. Last year 34 appeals were allowed as the panel knew this increase was planned. Would this help as the current year 7 would be 4 over the PAN for this September?

Thanks again

tiggytape Sun 20-Apr-14 11:57:57

Being over PAN helps to show that the school can cope with a few extra children in a year group. Their case is often that a few extra in a class makes science, DT and other subjects very difficult but they are obviously already coping so there's no reason why they can't again.
This is also the case if the older year groups also have extra pupils and results have been in no way compromised by that.

Planned extensions depend on the timing. Is it be something that affects pupils from September or is it a much longer term plan?

tiggytape Sun 20-Apr-14 12:13:09

Not to split hairs but the phrase "upheld at stage 1" means having definitively won at stage 1 and therefore absolutely not progressing to stage 2. It is different to having presented compelling evidence at stage 1 but not yet having had the appeal upheld.

If you win at stage 1, if it is upheld, you will know about it. The panel may send you out, call you back in and tell you you are successful there and then. They don't then make you do the whole stage 2 bit.

As Nenny says though it is perfectly possible to present a compelling argument at stage 1 but for the appeal not to be actually be upheld at that point and to continue to stage 2 with all the rest.

And as prh says, it is very unlikely that they will uphold any appeals after stage 1 (in the sense of sending people away with a successful appeal under their belt after stage 1) because there are 60 appeals in total in this case so even if stage 1 raises real concerns, they are likely to want to continue to stage 2 for all cases.

Zingy123 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:35:22

Thanks. Extension is waiting for planning permission so hasn't been built yet. Planning officer has recommended it for approval. It will add 15 classrooms.

titchy Sun 20-Apr-14 15:14:45

If the extension hasn't even got planning permission it isn't an argument you can use. It could be two or three years before it actually creates 15 classrooms. Also, having dcs at a school which is undergoing major building works it's a logistical nightmare trying to get from A to B at their school so it could work against you as the school can argue that getting their existing kids round the site safely will be an issue in itself, and therefore it's less likely they'll be able to admit over PAN.

admission Sun 20-Apr-14 21:26:17

15 extra classrooms is a large extension. Are you sure they are an extension and not just replacements? As others have said you cannot use something that does not exist yet as part of the appeal.
You need to concentrate on what you know is fact and make the very best case from this. Trying to bring in other factors just confuses the situation and potentially detracts from your case.

ParkingFred Sun 20-Apr-14 21:46:55

I would agree that a proposed extension will not strengthen your case.

One of the reasons the LA gave us for not allowing another pupil was overcrowding during whole school assemblies/lunch times/between lessons.

I got the number of pupils in each year from the county council which showed a couple of years had under the PAN due to children leaving, which allowed me to argue that as a whole, the school was not over capacity.

I also used national comparators for pupil:adult ratios, pupils:square meterage of school etc.

I hope you're successful. It's enormously stressful. I spoke for a solid hour at our appeal - I am sure they were sick of me.

Zingy123 Sun 20-Apr-14 23:09:38

Thanks. Won't mention the extension then. It is a new building as hey increased the PAN this year.

Zingy123 Wed 23-Apr-14 21:07:29

Just reading through the appeal information. It says please include evidence of your medical information, change of address if you have moved or faith attendance.

On our support form when we applied my priest confirmed we had full attendance. Do we need to get more evidence or is this referring to people who didn't have this when they applied?

Thanks

prh47bridge Wed 23-Apr-14 23:39:06

If you have already confirmed full attendance you shouldn't need to supply any additional information on that front. I hope they are simply asking people who didn't supply this originally to do so now, but it isn't very clear. I would check with the school just in case but they really shouldn't be asking you to supply again information you have already given them.

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