anyone had a child enter secondary on NC level 3?

(23 Posts)
bjkmummy Fri 31-Jan-14 18:44:18

my daughter in year 5 and has severe dyslexia - she is likely to still only be on NC3 when she enters secondary school. we applied for a statement but were refused so are appealing at the moment - its possible therefore that she will not have a statement when entering secondary school. I just wondered if anyone else been in a similar position and how did the child cope etc

cricketballs Fri 31-Jan-14 19:10:58

Any comprehensive have a large number of students entering with Level 3 and lower. Depending on the school, some subjects may be taught mixed ability, some settled. Teachers are trained and experienced in differentiation for all levels of attainment

gardenfeature Fri 31-Jan-14 20:38:22

Will she be a Level 3 across the board? She may qualify for a reader, scribe and extra time or use of a laptop. My DS has moderate dyslexia and was a 3 for writing, 4 for maths and 5 for reading at the end of KS2. There will be lots and lots of other students on a Level 3 for a variety of different reasons. DS started secondary in bottom set English but has worked his way up to top set. His spelling and punctuation are probably more in line with bottom set but his comprehension is top set so I feel very lucky as I am sure there are lots of bright dyslexics languishing in bottom sets.

bjkmummy Fri 31-Jan-14 21:36:57

yes she will probably be level 3 across the board - her working memory is also on the 2nd centile - she is not remembering anything that she is being taught even after intensive programmes have been out in for her. im worried as shes in a school of just 26 kids - so 10 kids in her class and shes struggling even with such a high staff to child ratio - secondary school at this stage terrifies me for her. she struggles with the noise in a class of 10

TheReluctantCountess Fri 31-Jan-14 21:41:46

Don't panic. In my school, she would be in a class of six or seven, with three members of staff. That's a school of over a thousand kids.

KingscoteStaff Sat 01-Feb-14 10:55:06

1 unstatemented child left our school last year on Level 3s. His mum still works with us, so I hear lots of news.

Our local school (C of E Academy) runs a nurture group system where struggling children from Yrs 7 and 8 are taught English and Maths together in small (10ish?) classes with one teacher and 2 HLTAs. He has made good progress and is moving to the main class system for Maths after half term.

drbartlet Sat 01-Feb-14 11:03:19

as pp have said - lots of comps have plenty of kids start y7 at NC level 3.
schools will have different ways of approaching this. you could enquire at your local secondaries to see what provisions they have (such as nurture groups). how well a child copes depends on so many other factors and plenty of very able children struggle with the transition to secondary - ime as a secondary teacher, how well a child adjusts to secondary school is more about personality than ability, and the type of school.

bjkmummy Sat 01-Feb-14 14:42:26

I have 2 secondary schools. Nearest made it clear with level 3 don't want her, she will be placed in mainstream and left to struggle - their exact words 'she will have to sink or swim' she needs specialist dyslexia teaching. School said if get a statement with that on they will refuse her as they have no specialist teachers. 2nd school, much better, do have dyslexia teachers, she will not do a foreign language and do extra catch up lessons instead. However I am at real risk without a statement at getting her in as it's the other side of the county then there's the issue of transport. I am appealing the refusual to assess and it will be a huge battle so part of me thinks should I let what will be be or fight for her as if I get her statemented the La will then have to ensure she has dyslexia teaching and I can name the 2nd secondary and know she will get a place. I am currently funding an hour a week dyslexia teaching but can't afford to do it indefinitely and she needs much more than an hour a week, at age 10 she still does not understand what a vowel is

clary Sat 01-Feb-14 17:19:35

DS1 got level 3s in his reading and writing SATs in yr 6. He doesn't find school easy (he's now in yr 10) but he gets help in some lessons from an LSA and from the learning support team any time he needs it.

I teach secondary and about half of my year 7 form are on L3 in one or another of the key subjects. It's not ideal I won't deny but any good teacher will tailor work to suit. We have a nurture group in yr 7 where some of the students who would struggle in bigger classes are taught in a much smaller group. This is not unusual.

That is appalling what the first school told you. Was that the head teacher? I would be tempted to raise that with HT if not.

bjkmummy Sat 01-Feb-14 18:06:03

it was the head teachers wife who was the senco - its an academy who seem to be filtering out all of the SEN kids from the school even though it has specialist provision. it will be hard on her as she will see all the kids locally going to the college that doesn't want her and she will have to get a bus and all the issues that will bring with it as well. when I went to see the second school the senco there felt she would need support in all lessons and that she would need a statement ideally

clary Sat 01-Feb-14 18:30:21

That is really poor. I am quite shocked actually. I teach at an academy and there is no way we would say that. Our school is open to anyone from the catchment who applies in time (and usually plenty from outside too!). Unless a student has such complex SEN that a special school would be a better place for them. Blimey.

If they are refusing anyone who achieves a L3 then I would have thought that would be a significant number. I would be tempted to get that response in writing and then go to the local paper. Or at least say to the school that is what you want to do if you would like her (with appropriate support) to go there. If you would prefer the other school then I agree, a fight for a statement may be the answer.

bjkmummy Sat 01-Feb-14 21:04:55

its hard clary isnt it? all of this of course was said verbally. the school seem to be picking and choosing the kids now and im sure it wont be long before it goes selective. i didnt understand the comment about them not accepting her if she was L3 because how would they know at the point of place offer? the offer of a place would be made before her sats results would have been done, if it was their intention to put me off applying they have certainly done a good job o fit. i will go to the opening evening again in year 6 and see what they say - if they say similar then i will follow it up with an email

mumslife Sun 02-Feb-14 22:22:27

Thats awful. My son is currently on a level 3 for english only. He is in year seven. He uses an alphasmart he has asupport teacher sitting beside him i. Lessons that involve alot of writing occasionally hehas a scribe. He doesnt do any foreign languages misses art or re anddoes extra english at those times. He is in lowest set for english. There are about fifteen kids at the mostin the set less still in his extra english class. Also two teaching assistants in there.. hehas been assessed as being dyslexic he got none of thisat primary

This is the sort of thing you need and should be offered

mumslife Sun 02-Feb-14 22:25:06

If she gets a statement you can name your school but no point naming a school who have said they cant or wont help her you need to report this to the lea

tiggytape Sun 02-Feb-14 23:06:53

An academy cannot pick and choose pupils - unless it is a grammar school of course.
They won't know anything about applicants except their address and if they have a sibling at the school - basically only the info needed to decide who meets the admissions criteria.
They certainly cannot filter out level 3 candidates or cherry pick level 6 ones
They aren't allowed to become selective if they aren't already either.
There is no way of getting around this - the council are the ones who check the final admissions list and it must be done in strict order of distnace, siblings etc.

However it isn't unknown for some schools to deliberately try to put off parents. I have heard of schools that tell parents of children with ASD, dyslexia and EAL that another school has "specialist" knowledge of dealing with such things whereas they claim they have no knowledge or provision at all. Which is of course rubbish - if she gets a place, they must meet ther needs. But unfortunatel,y even though it is wrong, it gives you a glimpse of what they will be like to deal with. As the parent of a child who will need support, you don't want a battle or a school that views additional needs in this way. However if you qualify on distance and decide to apply, there isn't anything they can do to prevent you getting the place.

CouthyMow Mon 10-Feb-14 03:43:04

I had a. DC enter Mainstream Secondary working BELOW NC lvl 1 - she was still working on p-scales in Y6, Reception level work / EYFS work.

She didn't get a statement...

She is currently on SA+, getting MORE than the maximum 15 hours a week help, so should technically have a statement.

(Yes, I've tried repeatedly, that's for another thread).

What I'm actually trying to say is that even my Dd, working below NC lvl 1, is now in Y11, and the majority of her predicted grades are D's and E's, except Maths, where she is currently at a G grade, but pushing to get an F.

And that's starting at a level far below what your DD is. So don't panic just yet, what you need to do is find out what the school does to support those DC's who are not at the 'expected level' for the end of Y6, who don't have a statement.

Theas18 Mon 10-Feb-14 11:24:32

I can't give any personal anecdotes here but if you look at he statistics you child won't be alone at all.

Level 4 is average at KS2 yes? and children's ability follows a normal distribution bell shaped curve.

There for for every level 5 there must be a level 3 child, and for the level 6's (of which we actually here a lot on MN) there must also be a level 2 child.

There were certainly several level 5 kids in my childrens yr 6 classes. Therefore there were also some level 3s. Lets say there were 4 level 5's in a class of 30 there should also be 4 levels 3's .... extrapolating from that in a secondary year group of 150 there will be 20- nearly a whole form- at level 3 or below.

My stats might be a bit off but but once you look at a bigger year group she will no longer be alone- there will be others at and below that level.

TalkinPeace Mon 10-Feb-14 20:48:15

OP
I'd be interested to hear the views of prh47bridge on your situation as he is tres knowledgeable on admissions
but I did not think non selective schools were allowed to "filter out" kids
DCs school certainly has kids who were at level 3 when they started

mumslife Sun 16-Feb-14 09:11:10

I am hoping my son currently on a level three in english and in year seven to hopefully scrape.a.c in english at gcse i think if they have the right support scribe etc then there is no reason why not. Fingers crossed anyway

Martorana Sun 16-Feb-14 09:21:50

OP- I am ready to be proved wrong, but I don't think the school can refuse a child admission like that. If she meets the admissions criteria, which will be on the school's website, so you can look at them, she gets a place. And unless it's a grammar school, academic achievement cannot be a criterion.

CouthyMow Sun 16-Feb-14 10:21:47

Talking peace - the schools may not be ALLOWED to filter them out, but Academies certainly DO. DD's school was a Secondary when DD started, took DD, gave her masses of help. My friend's DS has the same issues as DD, should be in Y7 there, by catchment, my DS1 got in despite being further away, yet they refused him on the basis that they can't support him adequately. She could have fought it, but what's the point - nobody wants to send their DC to a school that they've had to force to take that DC.

He's at a school an hour's bus ride away, as they aren't an Academy.

Martorana Sun 16-Feb-14 11:20:42

How do they know about his special requirements, couthy? Don't all the applications go via the LEA?

mumslife Mon 17-Feb-14 20:26:10

Couthymow

My son is a leVel three in english higher in other subjects. They took my son no pro s but it is not yet acadamy though is applying

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