Grammar school vrs Comprehensive how do you know which is best for your child?!!

[Flossiechops]

I'm looking for some advice from those who have had to chose between grammar and comprehensive for their dc. Back ground is that dd has just gone into yr 5, we are fortunate to live in an area (west midlands) with a choice of super selective grammars and a selection of outstanding rated comprehensive schools. The problem is that how do you decide which is the right one for your child?

Dd is a very sensitive soul, bright but not outstandingly so. Applies herself really well at school and is always keen to do her best. She doesn't 'get' the bitchyness that many girls dish out and sending her to a competitive all girls school worries me. On the other hand how do I know if this would be an issue or not?! We are looking to move house next yr and so have decided to make a decision this year (going to go to the schools open evenings) in order to be well within the catchment of the comprehensive we like best (ds is just a yr younger).

The other consideration is that if we chose a different comp to the one where the majority of her year group go (around 60 children out of 90) then she will not know anybody there. I'm going round in circles! Dd is saying she would like to sit the 11+. So please help make things clearer for me!

[RedVW]

Flossiechops - Are you referring to the King Edward Foundation Grammar Schools where they take a small percentage of children from a wide catchment. My children attend one of those schools and they work really hard. I chose it over a good comprehensive in a neighbouring county. If your daughter wants to have a go at the 11+, then let her have a go, but she will need your support in familiarising herself with the type of questions that may come up and some tutoring (by yourself or externally) of year 6 work, which can prove quite stressful to families. My children were considered bright and at the top of the class in primary, but it is very different in a grammar school where there is only room for a few children to be near the top. Think about if she can handle this. Also think about how far she would have to travel. Some children at the KE school travel 1.5 hours each way. I personally would not consider them if they were that sort of distance and our alternative is good. There are some great teachers at the school but not in every case. I think a minority of the teachers believe that more able children should get on with it with little support so the teaching is questionable. My friends rave about the 'creative teaching' at the comp and how stimulated the children are.

May I suggest you get along to the open days which are coming up over the next few weeks, for the grammar schools you are interested in - there are boys schools, girls schools and a mixed school and talk to the teachers. Also visit the comprehensive so that you can compare. As tiggytape says, many comprehensives are good at challenging bright children. Don't compare the grammar results with the comprehensives, but ask what percentage of their more able students get 5 A-Cs including Maths and English. That, in my view, is a better comparison.

Good Luck with your decision making.

[FrauMoose]

I live in the West Mids, but am not sure that I feel 'fortunate' about the presence of grammar schools.

My partner's ex decided she wanted grammar school for my stepchildren and organised coaching etc. The grammar school my stepson attended ended up being too strict for him, and the pastoral care was lousy. To be honest I am not sure that the local alternatives would necessarily have been better, but I think they might have been more tuned in to helping/supporting children who weren't that willing to be 'moulded'.

My stepdaughter did fine at the local comprehensive. (She didn't end up getting a place at a selective school.) I think it was better for her to be one of the brighter ones in a setting where there was a wide range of ability. She went on to sixth form college, then university, and has just started her first proper job in her chosen career.

My daughter decided herself that she wanted to try for the local grammar school. We didn't get her tutored, she was awarded a place and is now in the sixth form.

I don't feel that bullying has been a problem at my daughetr's school. (I'd have said there was more nastiness at the comprehensive my stepdaughter attended, though my stepdaughter's own friendship group were a pleasant bunch.)

[Evageorge]

Hi.
If she wants to sit the 11+, and you think it wouldn't be demotivating for her, I would let her, to keep your options open.
Girls' Grammar schools are not necessarily bitchy. Children do not normally suffer if the majority of their peers got another secondary school. A good school will integrate them well, and research shows that most pupils in secondary school do not necessarily stay close to their friends at primary.
Go to the open evenings, and see which schools feel right. www.how-to-choose-a-school.org/summary/grammar-schools.html is a not for profit impartial site, and has a good section on grammar versus comprehensive, and also a good section on open evenings.

[Flossiechops]

Thank you very much for your replies, they are very interesting and confirming what I was thinking.

redvw No we aren't thinking of K.E, we live in Sutton Coldfield and whilst there are a lot of children locally that travel to KE (including my next door neighbours dd) I am not keen for dd to travel that distance at 11. It would be Sutton Coldfield Grammar for girls. Like KE though they have a wide catchment of high achievers making entrance very tough and I understand it to be very competitive.

As we will be moving (but staying within SC) we have to make a choice now of which comprehensive to look at so visiting the open evenings will be of great benefit.

[Theas18]

Flossiechops We are in Brum and the kids attend/have attended ( dd1 at uni now) KE grammars. It has suited my kids pretty well ( we also sat them for the sutton schools back in the day when it was a separate test).

I don't think the bitchiness is any different grammar vs other schools really.

I think SC is a bit different from Brum generally in that the comps are more " comprehensive" . My impression locally is that the grammars/KE fee paying schools really do cream off the very bright ones and the comps are more " secondary moderns" with a technical/vocational BTEC rather that GCSE leaning.

If your DD is academically able and wants to try the 11+ then go for it.Ithink you working with her/some tutoring in technique is vital though especially now they take it at the start of Sept when they really haven't any exam technique under their belt as state school kids.

[Tiredemma]

Flossiechops we had DS1 tutored with intention of hoping that he would get a place at Bishop Vesey (we are in SC too). Just before the test date he made the decision to go to local state secondary (which is outstanding- AT).

Going and looking at the schools will enhance your decision I think- I liked the 'traditional' 'Hogwarty' feel of the Grammars but DS1 decided it just wasnt for him.

I have to say that his school is beyond brilliant and overall I think we made the right decision.

[Flossiechops]

Thanks for the replies. Tbh we are already having tutoring as she lost a lot of confidence in Maths during yr 4. We now need to be looking at whether to now focus on 11+ or just continuing to aid her maths. The tutor feels she would be in with a good chance and that it would be worth a try, but even if she sailed it I'm just not sure it's the right environment for her. tiredemma we will be looking at AT and Plantsbrook, if we chose AT then dd will probably the only one from her school to go as we are slightly out of area (if we decide on AT then when we move we will focus on the immediate area). I love the look of AT as its all shiny and new and the Ofsted is fantastic - I suspect we will love it the most. Dd loves drama too and I understand it has a performing arts programme too. But I do worry that she won't know anybody at all, I know she would probably settle really quickly but it's making that decision to move her from her friends. I work in FO too so it seems like a sensible decision. Oh choices choices!!

[Tiredemma]

The pastoral care at AT is fantastic so I wouldnt worry to much about your DD not having an immediate group of friends to transfer over with. I have a few friends with daughters that started there last year ' on their own' and they have made friends no problem.

My DS2 starts next year (he has gone into year 6 today) and for him I feel it will be the perfect school because of the Performing Arts Specialism- it has quite an 'arts' set up. DS1 is more 'sporty' and although it isnt high on AT agenda (Fairfax is more sporty)- he has still been pushed and had good opportunities.

We really agonised over which school to send ds1 too - he is a big Rugby player so DP wanted him to do the 11+ for Vesey- as I say, once he saw AT his decision was made and fortunately so far it appears to have been the right decision.

best of luck- its a minefield!!!

[beatback]

There is no comparision between even a good comprehensive, and a normal average (Girls Grammar or even a mixed Grammar school) so if you DCs are bright enough and lucky enough to live in an where there is Grammar school provision. Alternnatively good transport links available you must do what is possible to get them in the Grammar school.

However i am a bit biased and this is based on my terrible time at a Comprehensive in the 80s and the brilliant education my niece/newphew have had from there Grammar schools.

[celticclan]

I would only consider a grammar school if the comprehensive school was dire. I don't like social divisions in the education system and I think parents should support their local school rather than bussing them out of catchment to a Grammar school.

Different dilemma if you live in a Grammar school area and I don't envy those that do.

[Flossiechops]

Our most local school would be the grammar option, but i disagree that there is no comparison between the two. what is right for one child isnt necessarily the same for another. The choices of comprehensives in the area are very good which makes the decision harder again! I'm definitely leaning towards comprehensive Tiredemma thanks for your reply it definitely helps to 'speak' to somebody who has had the same dilemma in our area. I think the open evenings will confirm things for me I hope!

[Tiredemma]

If you think of anything else you need to know then just PM me. My friend is also a head of department there so I can pick her brains if you have anything specific you need to ask (and my stepmother is a TA there).

[Flossiechops]

I will thanks very much the open evening is next week I'm quite excited about looking!

[IloveJudgeJudy]

I haven't read the whole thread, but would like to tell you my perspective. We live in Kent, that also has grammar schools. We are very lucky in that there is also a very good "comprehensive" (I say that, as most of the top DC have gone to the grammars, so comprehensive is a misnomer) that we are in catchment for.

DD was a bit like your DD. Primary was "feeder" for comprehensive, but grammar is girls only and she has had her problems with that sometimes. She did go to the comprehensive (along with our other two DC) and was in top set for most of her subjects (apart from English, where she was in Set 2 or 3, but that made no difference at all to her GCSE result, as the teacher was fantastic - she got an A).

She decided that, after being at the primary with the same people and the comp, too, she would change 6th form. She has done that with no problems. It is her first day today, so we shall see how she has fared.

What I'm trying to say is, if your DD is capable, going to a comp will be no problem for her if the comp is good. Around here some of the grammars are not renowned for their pastoral care, which is a big thing, I think. They are only concerned with their results and figures.

Only you and she can decide which school is best for her, but she can always change, anyway, at 6th form if not before.

Btw DSs had/have a completely different school experience to DD, so it definitely depends on the DC.

[Flossiechops]

ilovejudhejudy thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I completely agree and know that a school that just focuses on academia and results will be completely wrong for dd. The local grammars are fiercely competitive and I'm pretty certain that dd would not thrive in that environment. I really hoping that when we attend the open evenings that we can come to a clear decision.

[forehead]

Agree with ILovejudy.
It really depends on the child. Both my dd's are very academic.
However, i thInk that one of my dd.s would thrive at the local catholic school, which has great pastoral care. My other dd is very competitive and would thrive at the local grammar.
I am sure that they will probably achieve similar exam results, just at different schools.