in support of Religious Education in schools

(38 Posts)
rabbitlady Tue 09-Jul-13 13:27:30

am i allowed to post this link?
i know that many people don't support RE, but for those who do, here is an opportunity to show it.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52408

CountingClouds Fri 12-Jul-13 14:34:07

Their are good issues taught in the RE class. The problem most parents have with it is the religious aspect. It is a conflict of interest for teachers who are religious taking this class, a bit like BNP members taking a race relations class. Take the religion out of RE, call it what it is Ethics, Culture ... etc (or whatever) and a lot more parents will find it less harmful and more positive.

Dontlikepink Thu 11-Jul-13 23:02:36

I am sorry, I am a profane in this subject. I was reading but couldn't understand what the petition was asking. I understood that Gove wants to listed to religious groups. That's not good news IMO, but what the petition is for?

rabbitlady Thu 11-Jul-13 22:45:06

well, that's ok. but people should sign if they can.

Talkinpeace Thu 11-Jul-13 20:56:27

no, sorry, not the right petition

rabbitlady Thu 11-Jul-13 20:54:07

there are 400 signatures on the petition. come on mumsnetters, make it some more! save RE jobs! save tolerance, independent thought, questioning... save asking ultimate questions...sign the petition!

Curlew
"I think it's outrageous that RE is compulsory and history isn't.
Citizenship and Critical Thinking should be compulsory- RE should be an option like any other."

+1

Absolutely agreed.

Talkinpeace Wed 10-Jul-13 16:57:39

merrymouse
frankly, timetable time!
she's doing a full set of heavy GCSEs and a waste of time lesson seemed exactly that.
she gets a full dose of comparative faith and philosophy discussion at meal times while listening to the Radio 4 news grin

grimma
Yes, the fact that "faith" schools do not have to teach about other faiths is a disaster waiting to happen (thanks Bliar)

GrimmaTheNome Wed 10-Jul-13 12:58:48

Talkin...yes, of course...

If there was a petition to 'make all schools follow the SACRE/national curriculum' for RE - including all faith schools - I'd sign it.

(personally I think that allowing schools to opt out of the national curriculum will lead to some successes but quite a lot of disasters. I reckon they should keep a core compulsory curriculum so that schools can't mess around too much especially with religion and science.)

merrymouse Wed 10-Jul-13 12:56:02

Talkinpeace, out of interest why did you withdraw your daughter?

It all seems a bit of a waste of time if children can be withdrawn from part of a lesson that just provides neutral information for discussion, or if state schools are allowed to teach a belief rather than teach about belief.

Maybe it does need to be reclassified as something else.

However, that seems a pity, as, as far as I know, (and I know very little about this) the subject that is examined at school (and studied at university?) is not about indoctrination.

Talkinpeace Wed 10-Jul-13 12:46:44

If your school is an Academy, it IS optional
ignore what Gove and the Daily Fail rant about
the National Curriculum ONLY applies to LEA schools - of which there are fewer every term

curlew Wed 10-Jul-13 12:32:03

I think it's outrageous that RE is compulsory and history isn't.

Citizenship and Critical Thinking should be compulsory- RE should be an option like any other.

Talkinpeace Wed 10-Jul-13 12:25:54

Grimma
Academies do not have to follow the National Curriculum.
DDs school is an academy.
Ergo

BUT the form I signed was old
because I have
Schools have to teach RE but parents can withdraw their children for all or part of the lessons.
opted to withdraw from all

Goves plans for the curriculum are an irrelevance
as Academies, Free Schools and Private schools do not have to follow it

by September that will be over 3/4 of all secondaries and heading towards 1/4 of all primaries

GrimmaTheNome Wed 10-Jul-13 11:53:35

Increased tolerance and democracy ... like in Syria and Egypt? sad

Besides which, I doubt that Michael Gove's plans for the history curriculum would come close to providing the necessary perspective and context.

RE isn't just about history anyway - it should also be about the present, including pupils examining their own beliefs, and discussing current ethical issues.

merrymouse Wed 10-Jul-13 11:15:38

No. It is because of views expressed in the Daily Mail that I think people need to be educated about belief. UKIP is doing quite well in the polls and the National Front et al don't seem to be going anywhere fast. Meanwhile, people of the Abrahamic religions seem to be ridiculously misinformed about each other's views, and there is a massive great country on the other side of the Atlantic where a large number of people think the Bible offers a scientific alternative to evolution.

Of course religion is a part of history, and there are overlaps between many subjects. However, an R.E. lesson offers a chance to discuss these things in a way that is not part of the syllabus of other subjects.

I don't know enough about the current R.E syllabus in state schools to know whether change is necessary. However, I certainly don't think that our society has reached a level of tolerance where R.E is no longer necessary.

MerryMouse. I suggest you take a course in Modern History - you seem to have picked up the Daily Mail and believed everything you read.

GrimmaTheNome Wed 10-Jul-13 08:00:34

>I really struggle to understand why it is compulsory for KS4 when history and geography aren't. Doesn't make sence

probably for the same anachronistic reasons as the ridiculous 'collective act of worship' thing still being a legal requirement (though most secondary schools sensibly don't really comply with that)

vess Wed 10-Jul-13 07:39:00

I don't mind RE generally - in fact, it's great. However, I really struggle to understand why it is compulsory for KS4 when history and geography aren't. Doesn't make sence.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 09-Jul-13 23:29:59

Talkin - according to gov.uk national curriculum info:

They (schools) must also provide religious education (RE) and sex education at Key Stage 4. Pupils don’t have to take exams in religious studies but schools must provide at least 1 course where pupils can get a recognised RE qualification at Key Stage 4 and above.

and:
Schools have to teach RE but parents can withdraw their children for all or part of the lessons. Pupils can choose to withdraw themselves once they’re 18.

so according to that, its compulsory at ks4 unless you've opted your DD out. I don't quite understand what it means about the 1 course where pupils can get a recognised qualification - afaik although they do a little bit of re in my dds school (mixed in with the pshe/citizenship/other miscellaneous non-exam stuff) I wasn't aware of any sort of qualification associated with it. (they can of course opt to do GCSE RE - my avowedly atheist DD had that down as her reserve option as she quite enjoyed it in yr9 as it was debate and ethics and not just learning myths)

rabbit: 'r e teaching should be learning about faith and non-faith positions, learning about and from, not about promoting a particular view. there are so many different views and most groups are sure they are 'right'. keep r e, keep it open and tolerant, give it some status and back it up with funding for research and training.'

That seems to be pretty much what happens already. I don't get what this petition is asking for that isn't already there in schools which follow the national curriculum/SACRE.

Talkinpeace Tue 09-Jul-13 23:10:13

RE is NOT compulsory in KS 4 : you can opt out of it - DD has

and speaking as a baptised and confirmed atheist, married to an unbaptised atheist with two atheist children

I cannot support the petition : because it seems to want to move RE away from explanation towards belief

however RE as explanation of how different societies have evolved and see the world is an essential part of the curriculum
and is the best way of turning people into atheists worldwide!

rabbitlady Tue 09-Jul-13 22:13:11

i'm not sure what michael gove means. I think he said he wanted to consult with faith groups on improving RE. well, that's fine, faith groups should be consulted. but they have an agenda - to promote their faith. r e teachers aren't doing that and shouldn't have to. is that what pupils want? r e teaching should be learning about faith and non-faith positions, learning about and from, not about promoting a particular view. there are so many different views and most groups are sure they are 'right'. keep r e, keep it open and tolerant, give it some status and back it up with funding for research and training. that should make an improvement.

merrymouse Tue 09-Jul-13 18:16:16

The public discourse on religion along with the increasing trend towards tolerance and democracy

Welcome to Earth.

Are you just visiting?

The public discourse on religion along with the increasing trend towards tolerance and democracy makes RE increasingly redundant in the school setting. I would be happier without it and to spend the time on History and Anthropology. History alone could cover all that is needed to give students the perspective and context required.

merrymouse Tue 09-Jul-13 18:12:03

It's not quite clear is it.

Maybe he means he would really like faith groups who run religious schools to teach their pupils to be more open to other beliefs?

Or maybe not.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 09-Jul-13 18:07:51

oh, and yes RE is compulsory in KS3, and even in KS4 they have to do a bit even if they're not doing the GCSE.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 09-Jul-13 18:06:04

Quite so, sock - that's what bothers me about this petition. I can't see how RE has ' 'suffered' due to recent government innovations' - other than perhaps the introduction of Free Schools, which I think can ignore the national curriculum and the SACREs and so are less likely to provide a balanced education about religions. But somehow I doubt that is what Gove is worried about.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now