# Talk

## Level 6 in SATs

(104 Posts)
VickySS Wed 08-May-13 21:58:54

Does anyone know what percentage of children have achieved (historically) level 6 at key stage 2 in Maths?

Sat 18-May-13 09:47:05

Moving on.. has anyone looked at sample CAT questions yet? Some of them are diabolical !!, like

"If Y + D means Y is the brother of D; Y - D means Y is the sister of D and Y x D means Y is the father of D. Which of the following means that C is the son of M?

P x Q - C + S
Q=CM
P + CQ
Q - S
None of the above"

BooksandaCuppa Sat 18-May-13 09:39:45

And reading levels are more likely to get marked back down at secondary for this precise reason...(see my comments upthread).

ChippyMinton Sat 18-May-13 07:22:24

Re the English tests appearing harder than the maths, DS's teacher explained it like this: elements of the English (reading?) require a level of maturity and insight to fully answer the questions. Whereas maths is technique - you either know it or you don't.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Fri 17-May-13 18:20:46

Which is of course what most of us are, so that makes sense

Feenie Fri 17-May-13 18:15:32

Maybe to parents, yes.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Fri 17-May-13 18:08:13

Sure, but i suppose the 'new' test last year was when the whole level 6 thing became a lot more visible, that's all.

Feenie Fri 17-May-13 18:03:04

Tests and teacher assessment supposedly have equal weighting, TheOriginalSteamingNit.

Feenie Fri 17-May-13 18:02:10

Tests reappeared last year - but the guidance has consistently referred to teacher assessment at level 6 every single year.

We teacher assessed a couple every now and again, usually in reading. It isn't fair to cap the attainment of, say, a Y5 child working at a 5A at the end of Year 5. They are as entitled to make progress as anyone else.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Fri 17-May-13 18:01:28

I mean, a teacher could say 'that child is working at level 6', but the actual SATS papers for them to sit weren't there until last summer, surely?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Fri 17-May-13 17:58:19

No, feenie, it only came in last year, didn't it?

LaQueen Fri 17-May-13 17:17:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feenie Fri 17-May-13 17:10:00

DD's school didn't offer the option of Level 6 until last year. Loads and loads of children were getting high Level 5s, but couldn't go any further.

Then they weren't following statutory advice. Was that their only excuse then - that they just 'couldn't'

Fri 17-May-13 17:04:09

DD did it last year and said the English was a lot harder than the Maths. To practice they had done 1999 and 1998 Maths papers which were really hard but the actual paper was easy (according to DD). I think the reading questions required a lot more thinking but apparently they were easier than the reading test she did at the private school exam. I never knew they only restarted last year. At DD's school lots of people did Maths. About 12 and I'm pretty sure more than half got it. 5 of those people did level six English and 3 got l6 writing and 2 got l6 reading. dd and one other got 3 l6.

LaQueen Fri 17-May-13 16:54:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Feenie Thu 16-May-13 18:21:57

My elder dd (who would easily have passed at L6 in year 6) spent most of year 6 pretty bored, as the highest level then was L5 at primary.

No it wasn't. There has never been a ceiling on KS2 teacher assessment, and level 6 was referred to in the statutory documents every year that the test was not in existence.

Your dd's school chose not to teach level 6 and to cap your dd's attainment, which is appalling.

Thu 16-May-13 18:19:15

<sigh> so that was it.

DS did sit his Level 6 Maths papers today, and is now a nervous wreck. I knew it. He would have been happy as lark not sitting it and being confident of his mark. He now is really worried. I think they are too young for this type of worry. But, I have cooked his favourite dinner, and the brownies are in the oven so will have them for pudding with vanilla ice cream. Not that this will make up for him now worrying. He said 15 of the 20 were "really easy" but sure he has 5 incorrect answers.

Thu 16-May-13 10:03:45

Not in the private school DS attended, lol. He was barely scraping L5c at end of y6 and was considered the very top ability pupil.

poppydoppy Thu 16-May-13 09:46:35

DS year 5 is working at level 6. I think its quite normal in private schools.

Dd is doing all the level 6s but she started the year on level 6 and has done no extra other than the normal class extension work she has been doing since reception I love dd's primary

Out of 55 year 6, 3 are doing level 6 literacy and 8 are doing maths which seems appropriate

The school down the road have entered a third of the year 6 for both and have been doing extra classes, lunch time sessions etc and came home this weekend with a pile of practise paper -yet locally it's seen as the better school and is over subscribed every year!

Thu 16-May-13 08:10:38

Probably been discussed widely .
90% of secondaries set their own cognitive ability tests (CATs) to implement streaming & setting. They don't trust y6 SATs very much although SATs are usually used to set KS3 & GCSE targets, also sometimes consulted for streaming when the CAT results aren't definitive. hth.

PastSellByDate Thu 16-May-13 05:37:38

Very interesting thread - was just having a peak as DD1 will be facing SATs next year.

Just curious how senior schools/ grammar schools handle primary SATs scores upon entry?

If this has already been discussed at length on the secondary feed then please just direct me to the discussion.

thanks.

Oh well,at my dd's primary lots of the kids - a third? half? are doing L6 -though I don't think all are expected to pass. I expect dd to pass Maths and the SPAG one but would be very surprised if she passed the Reading one (as would she). But she seems quite happy to have a go.

The downside of the L6s is that the year 6s have had to do much more work this year. The upside is that...they've had to do much more work this year. My elder dd (who would easily have passed at L6 in year 6) spent most of year 6 pretty bored, as the highest level then was L5 at primary. She had already done L6 equivalent maths for 11+ practice, so would have liked to have done L6-type work in class and to have her abilities 'recognised'. There have always been plenty of children who are above L5 in primary school - don't see anything wrong in them being stretched.

In the case of my dd2 currently in year 6, she has had to work quite hard to try to reach L6 standards but can see how she's progressed. I don't think children should feel forced to do L6 - but if they are happy to have the extra work, then it needn't be bad. All the practice for L6 tests has also helped the kids get used to exams so they're no big deal; also quite a useful thing.

Tingalingle Sun 12-May-13 20:12:26

Ah. Wish I'd known that before agreeing that DD could have a bash at it.

BooksandaCuppa Sun 12-May-13 13:28:31

It quite clearly said all over the DoE website that they are for children 'already working consistently at level 6' and not for level 5 kids to just have a 'go' at.

Last year at ds's primary they stuck to that and no-one did them, despite his little group of higher achievers being all level 5b/a all year in English and maths. This year I think half the year are doing them. I feel sorry for any of those kids who'll go to secondary and find out they're not really level 6 - especially in reading.

The texts studied at secondary are so much more sophisticated - and the fact that you have to write an essay not just answer a few questions means that in the case of English, at least, a primary level 5 or 6 is really not the same as a secondary one.

Feenie Sun 12-May-13 12:23:02

I don't know why they were stopped, but I do know that teacher assessment at level 6 continued.

I think I have shared my opinion re introduction already - this time they are definitely being misused, and no wonder secondary teachers are pissed off! I suspect that is probably why they disappeared in the first place.

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