Tiffin girl's waiting list

(17 Posts)
ce09ssa Mon 04-Mar-13 19:49:59

Hi all,

This my first time in relation to 11+ entrance exams. My daughter passed three top grammar schools including Tiffin. She passed the first and the second stage test but failed to got the place in tiffins. This was heartbreaking for me and my daughter. Yesterday we received the letter from tiffins and there is exactly 14 marks difference between her and the last offered place. Can please somebody guide me that is there any chance for her to get a place in Tiffins. I haven't accepted the place which is been offered to me (it's an outstanding local state school). She also not been offered any place in any other grammar school.

tiggytape Mon 04-Mar-13 22:14:52

ce09ssa - I am sorry to hear that. The first thing you should do is accept your allocated place and ring each grammar school that she passed the exam for to make sure they know to keep / put her on their waiting list. The lists won't start moving for a couple of weeks yet. If you've applied for Tiffins it is likely the grammars you are talking about are all academies in which case they do their own lists.

The tough thing about grammars in that area is that a child can pass the 11+ with flying colours and still not get an offer simply because so many hundreds of children sit the test and because the school makes final offers purely based on top scores with no reference to distance or anything else. It is very hard on those who pass several 11+ exams but get no initial offer for a grammar school.
Accepting your allocated place does not alter your place on any waiting list - it just gives you security of knowing you have a school to go to should you need it.

The good news is that super selective grammars are such a long shot that many people have another school (even a private school) as back-up and if they get offered a great scholarship somewhere else, they will turn down their Tiffin offer. As such the waiting lists do move. The only downside can be how much the lists move by and how many children share the same mark. 14 points doesn't necessarily mean number 14th on the waiting list because often pupils share identical scores with at least one other applicant. You should be able to find out more from the school quite soon though but do make sure you are on all the lists you want to be on and that you accept the initial offer even if you intend to decline it when / if a better offer comes along.

Poundpup Mon 04-Mar-13 22:20:26

Hello ce09ssa, sorry that you have not had the result that you wanted and to answer your query. Here is the admission data from Tiffin:

How places were offered over the last three years
2010, 2011, 2012
No of applicants tested 1170 1199 1471
No of places offered initially 120 120 120
Original cut-off mark 237 235 238
Cut-off mark at 31 July 235 235 237
Number of offers after initial offers 13 5 19
Number of appeals heard 43 32 32
Number of successful appeals 3 1 1
The information above is given for guidance only. The number of applications received
and the overall situation changes from year to year

corlan Mon 04-Mar-13 22:24:31

Someone on here may well know the answer but, if not, there are a lot of experts on the elevenplusexams website here
I'm sorry to say, from my own experience a few years ago, Tiffin only seems to get a couple of marks along the waiting list - 14 marks is just too far unfortunately.

tiggytape Mon 04-Mar-13 22:26:43

Tiffin Girls changed their whole test format this year. They had a round 1 knock out stage and then a stage 2 exam day held much later to test remaining applicants on English and Maths. It has only ever been reasoning tests in the past. As such, it might be hard to guess what the scores will look like this year and how much the list will move but Poundpup's figures show there is always some movement and really it is a case of hoping you are high enough up the list to get an offer.
You can also appeal of course. If you have grounds to prove that your DD would be well suited to the school and benefit from a place there. It is a longshot since so many appeal but you have nothing to lose by doing so.

corlan Mon 04-Mar-13 22:28:30

Sorry - cross posted with poundpup - as her data shows, you have to be within 1 or 2 marks of the cut-off mark to be in with a chance unfortunately.

ce09ssa Mon 04-Mar-13 22:51:45

Thanks to all of you for your great support and suggestions.
My DD still believes that she still has a chance. I am really confused and disappointed with this whole system. It will damage her self esteem. I wish now that she had never sat for those exams.

Poundpup Mon 04-Mar-13 22:57:14

I know it seems tough right now ce09ssa but hang on until you know where you are on the waiting lists.

At this stage, if you are close to the entry score, it is less about the numbers but how many candiates are sitting on each number.

Also remember that a grammar school is not the be all and end all. There are lots of successful children that do well in the comprehensive system and go on to university and you said yourself that your DD has secured a place at an outstanding school. It's just a little raw at the moment.

corlan Mon 04-Mar-13 23:07:21

I know this will all be very raw for you and your daughter now but please don't you or your DD feel that you have failed in any way.

Tiffin is so incredibly difficult to get into. People have their children tutored for years before sitting the exam.(I've known people start tutoring in year 2.) The fact that your DD passed the first and second test shows how clever she is.

Being offered a place at an 'outstanding' local school is something to celebrate in itself.

fondofuk Mon 04-Mar-13 23:22:37

Sorry. Maybe irrevant to OP's question. But how is passing exams different from a place being offered at Tiffins? Also 14 marks seem quite big. Why would they bother to put the girl on waitlist? Maybe exam mark cut line is not 236-8 any more?

FillyPutty Mon 04-Mar-13 23:27:56

The waiting list can be infinitely long. I believe these are standardised grades so 14 marks is a loooooong way from having a chance of a place.

Poundpup Mon 04-Mar-13 23:49:20

Fondofuk, Tiffin selects by accepting the 120 girls that score the highest in rank order. After this the candidates will be placed on the list according to their score.

For instance (And I should point out that I have no idea what the cut off is this year) imagine the cut off is 238. The waiting list might be ranked accordingly:

237 - 1
236 - 3
235 - 0
234 - 0
233 - 9
232 - 1

Then imagine that 10 girls decide not to go to Tiffin, even though they have been allocated this school. This will mean that all the girls on 237, 236 and some of 233 would be offered a place.

This year, as tiggytape pointed out, Tiffin changed their testing procedure. I do not know what this may mean score wise. Either everyone could be bunched together or people could be spread out.

Also it all depends on how many girls take up the offer to go to Tiffin.

That's why I suggested to OP to hang on until the waiting list positions have been confirmed. At this stage it is far easier to predict if the offer of a place is likely.

Mrsrobertduvall Tue 05-Mar-13 08:05:27

it will damage her self esteem
what a terribly sad thing to say about a 10/11 year old girl.

Op you have a place at an outstanding state school (I know the one I think).
You have to be realistic with your daughter, and I hope you have always been like this with her through the exam process, and not held the grammars up as the Holy Grail.

tiggytape Tue 05-Mar-13 08:26:13

With self esteem, I think it is important to talk up her offered school and really reassure her about the unfairness (for her) of a grammar system which hasn't got room to the children who pass.

The awful thing about grammars in that part of Londn is that a child can pass exam after exam and still not get an offer. So many clever children every year pass the 11+ but don't get in.
But of course that is a benefit too. It means the top groups in the local comps will cater for children at level 5 and level 6 because most clever children cannot get into the grammars. It means there is no shame in not being offered a place - everybody knows pupils each year who pass the tests and are exceptionally clever but cannot get in. If you lived in an area where 20% of children went off to grammar, it could be very hard for her not to have made it (yet) but as it is, she will be in the top group of an outstanding school with children at a similar ability to herself.

OnGoldenPond Tue 05-Mar-13 11:54:13

OP, is the comp you have been offered close to TG? If so, I think I may know which one it is.

If it is the one I think, more and more parents are using Tiffin Girls as their second choice in case they do not get the comp on distance grounds. Because the comp is widely considered to give better value added than TG.

Just remember the Tiffin schools succeed because they are so very competitive and only the very brightest have a prayer of getting a place. They don't necessarily have the best standards of teaching available locally.

KateShrub Tue 05-Mar-13 13:59:43

OP: 14 marks is a long way. There might be 100+ girls ahead of your daughter. She will not get in.

notfluffy Wed 06-Mar-13 08:26:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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