ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Clegg jnr to go to state-funded comp(142 Posts)
Just an ordinary state school, after all the talk - he's going to the London Oratory.
Are they still doing their dodgy interviewing, which Ruth Kelly waved through for them when she was Sec of State for Education?
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Actually I was focusing on the cleaning and silver polishing because that is exactly what Catholic friends get so frustrated about, that the convenience catholics focus on activities like that for a couple of years, because they can pop in and get it over with without having to get involved with the sort of bottomless activities they involve themselves in and value within the ministry, such as running the old people's transport services and daycare, and all the endless extra activities that involves them in checking in on them when ill, sorting out their problems and generally providing them with stimulation and support .
You make lot of assumptions about me and my family here which are well wide of the mark , but I don't want to get involved with a Monty Pythonesque "You were lucky" conversation. I don't think it is right or relevent to make this personal, particularly as I actually do find your personal remarks hurtful and offensive. I am not anti Catholic and I am not anti Catholic School, I am not even anti those parents who are convenience Catholics, or convenience Anglicans come to that, accessing state school places in London is becoming ever more difficult and who can blame them for doing the best for their children by any means available to them. However I am against selection procedures that make hypocrites out of parents, and introduce hurdles which discriminate against those who are already disadvantaged.
Am I supposed to be surprised that London Oratory is admitting Clegg Jr? Way back in 2010 Id already said junior would be guaranteed a place, never mind what Senior believes or dont believe; all he had to do was to put his name down.
This is what London Oratory is all about, the well-bred hypocrite of a school that denies scores of poorer kids (the great unwashed, so to speak) but who have higher legitimate claims to a place in the school than the kids from affluent and famous families that London Oratory are so keen in taking.
They talk of testing for Catholicity but dont you for one moment believe in all this crap from these bloody hypocrites that seem to congregate in many of the Governing Boards in many (though not all) of Londons Catholic schools.
On a different note, did you notice how all three of Clegg's children have Spanish names? Guess Nick was roundly ignored or shouted down when it came to the naming bit.
<saunters off having lowered the tone of the thread>
Yes Silent that's always amused me.
This thread has made me regret we didn't need 'church' points for dcs schooling. Dh is a deacon in our church (Baptist). He does the PA for services and leads worship as well, also prayer meetings and working in our annual holiday club. I'm on the creche rota, a little pastoral work as and when I can, the flower rota (yes really!) and a turn on the after service prayer rota. We've been attending for nearly two decades. We would have a TON of points!
You wonder what would have happened if an 'outstanding' but non-catholic school had been on his doorstep, and all the catholic ones were further away and only so-so? Somehow I suspect that the need for a Catholic education would take second place.
"This is what London Oratory is all about, the well-bred hypocrite of a school that denies scores of poorer kids (the great unwashed, so to speak) but who have higher legitimate claims to a place in the school than the kids from affluent and famous families that London Oratory are so keen in taking."
One of the reasons why we never even put it down as a preference.
Not that it would have mattered. We did not get into the Vaughn either. <throws money on Education>
Wonder if my DS would get a place....
Parent catholic -check
Voluntary stuff - he's an altar server -check
Kind and caring child - check
Ah but autistic -strike
Not academic -strike
Free school meals -strike
Not a glitterati family -strike
Hmm guess not then.
My DCs go to a Catholic school. I met the Head, had a chat about how I supported the general ethos of the school but wasn't a Catholic. He was more than happy to tell me that he was happy about that and whilst Catholics get priority, he could accept my year 1 child to bring the class size from 29 to 30.
Locally, all primary schools are over-subscribed apart from the really rough ones and I would have done anything to avoid those. I fully accept that I should have remained true to my firmly held beliefs and put my children in one of these schools but in the end my selfish need to put my children first sent me running to the Catholic school.
Quite honestly I feel guilty about it and I thank my lucky stars that I am not a high profile politican or married to one.
No need to feel guilty, Llareggub, the hypocrites are admitting all and sundry anyway insofar as the kids and their families can boost the schools profile. Your local Catholic Head is an exception, of course. I have since (reluctantly) vowed to do all I could to dismantle specifically the Catholic schools Catholic only admissions criterion and advocate ALL Faiths and NO Faith to be allowed into Catholic schools.
I am mightily pleased London Oratorys backdoor selection process i.e. interviewing kids and their parents has since gone belly up!
Our school is quite diverse, probably more so than the local primaries. Our HT was proud to have a number of faiths in the school.
My son is in a Catholic school which has a 40% non catholic intake. I like the mix personally, I am Catholic and so is DS but I like that the school is NOT exclusively Catholic....that would feel far too insuler.
So even if the posh Oratory would take my DS (they wouldn't as doubt we would be "good enough") am not sure I would want him in there anyway.
Not that we live anywhere near it anyhow. Must read thread now to see if any Oratory parents are on here.
Well at least we know why Gove was hinting they might go private - basically if Clegg Jr hadn't got his place at one of the most elite state schools in the country, they would've done.
Tbh - the poor chap cannot win, if he sent his son to a private you would all be having a go at him. Perhaps if he went to a failing school under special measures you would all be happy.
I feel a bit sorry for him!
And it never really harmed Diane Abbott who opted out of the state system and who was spouting off on Question Time the other day. All I can see when I listen to her is whats good for you is certainly not good enough for me......
PhilJW Can we also note that Nick Clegg's wife's name is Miriam Gonzalez Durantez and not Mrs Clegg! (Apologies for lack of correct accents, am on ipad).
Glad to know that the Oratory hasn't changed in the 27 years since my classmates were applying.
As a matter of interest, where are all these Catholic schools that have a diverse school population of which you speak? Our local Catholic schools are all pretty much fully Catholic and about getting the wink and the nod from the local PP. that's why DD won't be going to any of them. Also she's ten months and not yet baptised. Oops.
Agree, Maisie. It's a state school. Whatever they believe in is irrelevant imo. Clegg is not subscribing to the public school system.
Though I wish it had been through principled objection to the horrible privilege-promoting private school system ...
Does it reflect an earnest desire on his part to make society more equal? The jury's still out on that afaic.
I think Fulham is a pretty standard mix for London. Great poverty, next to great wealth. I know there is creeping gentrification, but Hammersmith, West Kensington and Earls Court have plenty of poverty and are known for their Polish and Irish populations.
On the face of it, London Oratory should be very multi-cultural.
Clegg obviously wants a long career in politics and knows that he would not be respected if he sent his son to private school. I know he is going to a catholic school, but it is still a state school with larger classes and will still have more of a social mix than a private school. This is a generally positive thing for state education. Maybe he also chose the school because the Blairs have done well there and the school has been discrete in dealing with the child of a high profile politician.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
"Tbh - the poor chap cannot win,"
Er yes he can, he could have sent his child to his local, but less desirable Catholic school, or the local non-Catholic comprehensive, and supported, it joined the PTA, Governors, and so on.
Instead he has chosen one of the most elitist schools in the country.
It's quite obvious from his comments that if he thought he could get away with it he would send his kid to Westminster, but he can't so he has to 'make do' with The Oratory, which takes in only 3% 'low attainers'. Had he not got a place at the Oratory, he would have gone private.
There is a Catholic School less than half the distance from his house - St John Bosco.
In addition, ARK Academy is less than half-a-mile from his house, it is an improving school, and Clegg should be supporting it by sending his child there. According to ARK's head, Clegg didn't even visit it for fuck's sake. www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jan/26/state-school-head-challenges-clegg
Clegg is a multimillionaire who got an elite education accessible to large degree only to the children of millionaires, and he is continuing in this by sending his child to a socially elite state school where you can't get in unless you plan 10 years ahead, and get baptised before the age of 6 months.
ARK looks like a pretty decent school, and Clegg could use his vast financial resources to top up with tuition, Oxbridge interview coaching, all without anyone batting an eyelid.
However that's not enough for him, because he insists that his child goes to a school where children are selected, not on ability, but on their parents brass-polishing and brown-nosing skills.
I think the difficulty is that the more hoops you create, the more you exclude people who have absolutely no idea that the hoops exist. (Hence, I would imagine, fewer FSM at London Oratory).
You can't apply for the London Oratory if you have never heard of it.
On the other hand, hoops aren't specific to the London Oratory. I saw a big notice in the front window of a local estate agent's yesterday asking for houses in catchment area of sought after primary. Said family houses won't leave much change from £1m.
With such a diverse population in the UK, I don't know how you get rid of hoops. Private tuition for all pupils maybe? Able parents will always help their children, whether that means homeschooling them (even if they officially attend a school) or sending them to Eton.
It's all a bit Emperor's New clothes, isn't it.
People pay lip service to a religion which frankly is a load of medieval superstition and which has presided over the most horrendous mistreatment particularly of women and children - look at the magdelene sisters, the child abuse cover ups, the nonsense spouted about homosexuality.
Yet these parents pay lip service to it so they can get their child into a certain selective school to learn about these values which are obviously so dear to them.
Faith schools are divisive to a community and i don't think they should exist, and I particularly don't think exclusive schools such as the Oratory should exist.
"The year they stopped the interview the intake became far more middle class because the catchment was smaller. They re introduced the interviews to make it more inclusive. They re introduced the interviews to make it more inclusive.
You may not like the idea of the school but please get your facts right."
Oh my aching sides.
They DIDN'T reintroduce interviews, which are obviously anything but inclusive, since they can very effectively weed out any low-achieving kids through this process - what they did do was reintroduce rules which require parents to detail their brass-polishing, flower-arranging, etc., activities in support of the Catholic church.
What they DID do, is drop the interviews because they were ILLEGAL, and then when they found out that this was reducing the quality of the intake, came up with a long and intrusive form that amounts to an interview, asking what activities you do in support of the Catholic church.
In terms of schools and their precious 5 GCSE pass %, there is really one critical thing - and that is the number of children who enter the school at 11 below level 4. For the Oratory school, their admissions process restrict that to 3%.
In addition, with 66% high attainers, that is children entering at level 5 and above, those children are nailed on to pass 5 good GCSEs - wherever they go to school.
At Clegg's local school, ARK Academy, 97% of high attainers got 5 good GCSEs. At the Oratory, 99% did.
No matter what you say about diversity, FSMs, whatever, the fact is that the Oratory School has excluded low-attaining children from the school. This is not diverse at all. There should be about 30% low attainers, but actually there are 3%.
He has done what all left wingers do when they get a bit of power/money.
Move heaven (find religion) or move earth (multimillion catchments) to get into an exceptional state school.
Then they can smugly criticise all those who go private while thanking the lord/the bank that their kids don't have to mix with the working classes.
It pisses me off but doesn't surprise me.
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