should I grass up the new neighbours?

(175 Posts)
sybilwibble Thu 27-Dec-12 10:40:28

Met the new neighbours at another neighbours drinks party. Lovely mum and daughter, plus granny. Ask Mum, as you do, Where have you moved here from? Her response was that she only lives about a mile away, where they have a lovely family home, now sat empty, but they've rented the house in our road as it's right in catchment for the great local secondary. They've been here a month, and will find out on March 1st whether their dd will get a place (she will) then they will move back in a year.

Granny then tells me seperately, that they will be moving back in March, as soon as they get the letter from the great senior school, as they have not been successful in finding anyone to rent their family home from them. Either way, I'm a bit hmm. My dcs are younger so we're not applying this yr, so doesn't directly affect us...but would feel very sneaky calling the local authority... wwyd?

I wouldn't say anything! Nothing to do with you.

EwanHoHoHozami Thu 27-Dec-12 10:46:45

But they're actually living in their rented house, so they're not actually doing anything against the rules, right?

I'd think that if they're prepared to cause themselves that much inconvenience then they must really want that place.

And I wouldn't say owt.

PuggyMum Thu 27-Dec-12 10:50:04

This isn't something I would interfere with either. They have a rental agreement, will have bills in their name so they can prove they do live there as far as they'd need to.

Live and let live in this case!

EwanHoHoHozami Thu 27-Dec-12 10:50:18

Doesn't make it "right" btw, but that wasn't what you were asking. Just saying I wouldn't be calling the authorities over it.

Mutt Thu 27-Dec-12 10:54:28

Maybe they will find the neighbours so lovely they will decide to stay hmm

But if it will bring pleasure to your life to dob them in, you go for it.

(Not that it will make a difference either way - they are working the system, not breaking the rules)

ItsaTIARA Thu 27-Dec-12 10:54:44

It is definitely against the rules (and if it's an oversubscribed school they won't get away with moving back in March daughter might get kicked out of school) but unless I had friends whose DCs had lost out I personally wouldn't dob them in. They're idiots to tell all and sundry though because eventually someone will take it personally and grass them up.

sybilwibble Thu 27-Dec-12 11:13:16

Mutt clearly if it would bring me pleasure...then I'd just go ahead and do it. Clearly I'm in a quandry about it. And they certainly are breaking rules. You have to apply from your permanent home. If your perm home is a rental so be it, that's fine, but to rent a home from Dec to March, while your permanent, family home lies empty a mile away is clearly an abuse, not a simple of case of having moved recently to the area.

creamteas Thu 27-Dec-12 11:52:55

I would certainly tell, it sounds like fraud, so is no different from people who falsify claim benefit or evade tax.

If they are not breaking the rules, then any investigation will find them innocent. So what is the harm in reporting it.

Mutt Thu 27-Dec-12 11:54:04

And you can prove that can you? That they are moving back in March?

Perhaps you have recorded your conversation with Granny... And I hope you told her how unethical you find their little plan? Or did you just stand there nodding and wishing her a Merry Christmas.

These threads make me laugh. Either dob in your neighbour for working the system (be it to obtain a school place, benefit fraud, tax evasion, or whatever) or don't. But to start a thread about being in such a quandry over it...do me a favour.

You said yourself "it would feel very sneaky calling the local authority...". There's a reason for that.

It is.

strumpetpumpkin Thu 27-Dec-12 11:56:17

id consider it their own business.

usualsuspect3 Thu 27-Dec-12 11:59:35

It's surprising the lengths some people will go to to nick a place at a good school. I wouldn't report but I wouldn't be overly friendly with them either.

OhDearConfused Thu 27-Dec-12 15:23:23

Yes - they are committing a fraud. All crimes should be reported.

kilmuir Thu 27-Dec-12 15:26:30

It is against the rules
Would you let it go if it was a primary place for one of your children?

OhDearConfused Thu 27-Dec-12 15:41:01

It is against the rules (at least we can assume they are alhtough OP doesn't mention the school, since most schools say you have to have your "permanent" address - although it is possible that the OP's schools says "short term rental addresses for admissions purposes are fine" hmm).

I wouldn't break them.

prh47bridge Thu 27-Dec-12 16:57:14

They are breaking the rules. There are no LAs that permit short term rentals for admissions purposes.

They may be found out even if you don't tell the LA. Many LAs have had problems and watch out for families who start renting within the catchment area of popular schools just in time for the admissions round. As this family still owns a house that may well be picked up from checking against council tax records, as a result of which the LA will use that as the home address and renting will have gained them nothing. Even if they get a place, the LA may realise what has happened as soon as they move back to their original home. The LA is then entitled to withdraw the place even if their child has already started at the school. They are then likely to be in a worse position than if they had applied from the correct address in the first place as many of the schools they might have got into will be full.

If it was me I would tell the LA.

orangeberries Thu 27-Dec-12 16:57:33

I would mind your own business.

They only have your word to go by and they might decide to stay after all if they rent their house out.

It isn't against the rules to rent somewhere and try and rent your own house out or even leave it empty.

I know loads of people who genuinely have moved somewhere else but their house is either empty or rented out as they genuinely cannot sell it. All the council will be interested in is that they live at their current address and can prove it.

orange
All the council will be interested in is that they live at their current address and can prove it.

Not necessarily, if the council don't accept that the current address is their permanent address.

TimeChild Thu 27-Dec-12 18:27:58

It is fraud and if found out the place will be withdrawn.

What kind of an example to set their dd and it would be she who would suffer. In the worst case she would be withdrawn from the school under a cloud not of her making (with no other school to go to). Even in the best case scenario, she would effectively be at the school under false pretenses and may have to field awkward questions.

I'm getting on my high horse here but I think we all have to think of the underlying morals that we are passing on to our children.

Would I shop them? Probably.

admission Thu 27-Dec-12 18:31:46

Orangeberries. Sorry that is not exactly true, most LAs are now very interested in how long somebody has been in a house and more importantly what else they might "own" .
I am not saying anything that is not already public knowledge but I know of at least 1 LA who "red flag" anybody who has moved into a house in the last 6 months if they are applying for a school place in the normal admission round. The second thing they do is check their council tax records to see if the parents are paying the LA for any other address, though they can obviously only do that for the one LA.
In the above case they would be spotted and from the description given I would suspect that the LA would see it for what it is and use the old address as their true address.
Obviously there are many situations where the move to rented property is completely genuine, so the LA will be careful about what they do and say. Most LAs now have areas that they know are a problem when it comes to admissions due to over-demand and take this very seriously. In fact in the LA I am quoting they know the houses / flats that are used on a regular basis for such attempts to bend the system and needless to say anybody using these addresses is looked at very carefully (though for some reason the estate agents tend not to mention that fact!)

tethersjinglebellend Thu 27-Dec-12 18:34:51

Surely it would only be against the rules if they move back to their old house?

I know some LAs are beginning to insist that all ties are severed with previous properties, but they are in a minority. Renting out a home you own and renting elsewhere is not against any rules otherwise AFAIK- it only becomes 'short term' if you move back. In London for example, families who rent often have to move every few months- should they also have their children's school places withdrawn?

TimeChild Thu 27-Dec-12 18:43:09

The list below comes from the website of a v. over-subscribed school in our area. It makes it clear that if you are suspected of any of below you will be investigated and place withdrawn. Amazing the lengths some people go to!

• Use the address of relatives – usually grandparents. They often have the same name, so utility bills and other documents can be presented that appear to match the name of the pupil with the address on the application.
• Taking on a short-term rental or tenancy agreement merely for the duration of the application period.
• The parents’ marriage is said to have broken down. This subsequently proves to be untrue but the story provides the cover for one parent (usually the mother) to move to an address within a catchment area for a short time.
• Parents genuinely have separated, but it is claimed that the child is living permanently with the other parent.
• The application uses the address of a property that is owned by one or both of the parents but is not their permanent address. Often it is just a property they let to others.
• After giving a valid address on the application form, parents subsequently move away but do not inform the Local Authority or school of their change of address.
• One or other of the parents has a commercial or business address within the distance, which they use on the application as their ‘home’ address.
• A friend’s address is used. This can be given credibility by swapping addresses with them for a short time – sometimes with a short-term tenancy agreement in place.
• Using the address of an empty property or plot.

onedev Thu 27-Dec-12 18:50:44

I think you should mind your own business.

MirandaWest Thu 27-Dec-12 18:56:36

When they applied where were they living?

Mutteroo Thu 27-Dec-12 20:08:17

At the moment they're not officially doing anything wrong. depends what happens in March. Then all bets are off, particularly if they're nightmare neighbours who have given you hell!

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