child about to go into year 9 - possible disability discrimination or something else?

[whatstream]

I'm not sure where this belongs or where it would get the best response, so I'm going to copy it into Legal, Secondary Education and Special Needs.

Daughter just about to start year 9 has had problems ever since starting at secondary with being dumped into groups lower than her ability level. She has physical disabilities but no intellectual impairment or behavioural problems.

Background: End of year 6 results - SATS: Reading Level 4, Writing Level 4, English Overall Level 4, Numeracy Level 3 (School / classroom assessment: Literacy 4a, Numeracy 4c, Science 4b)

So, overall, didn't do so well in Maths SATS but otherwise generally ok/average/fine. (Primary school didn?t do science SATS.)

Went up to secondary and was put into streams according to the LOWEST score, i.e. maths, for everything. We appealed; telephone call to the person responsible, he moved her up a band to 'give her a chance' and she thrived, all fine, did really well, so we relaxed and thought problem was over.

End of year 7 results: English: 5.2
Maths: 5.8
Science: 5.5 (all these scores were comparable with the other kids in her classes, sometimes better)

So as you can see, she met all her targets and exceeded some of them so imagine our horror at end of yr 7 when we saw her timetable for the coming yr 8 and the same person had put her down into bottom set again. This time, we actually went in for a meeting face to face with this person, talked him into not doing this to her etc. Again, he agreed to change it, but was saying stuff like 'give her a chance' and 'but will she be able to cope' etc. Anyway, he let her stay in her middle band for yr 8 and she absolutely thrived:

End of year 8 results: English: 6.5 ? Working Above target
Maths: got a 6.2 in maths in spring this year, way above target of 5.8 for end of yr 9
Science: got a 6.5, again above target: original target of 5.8 then 6.2 now had to be changed to 6.5 because she had surpassed it already (and remember this target is for end of year 9 and she's achieved it already) again, all these scores were comparable with other kids in her classes, sometimes better, and in the last half term of yr 8, she reached 6.5 in science.

So overall, you would think there would be nothing to worry about:

So, to now, the problem has recurred AGAIN. We have seen her timetable for the coming yr 9 and it?s bizarre. The banding of yr 7 and 8 doesn't exist in yr 9, but some of the groups she has been put in are clearly equivalent to putting her down AGAIN.

The worst one is science: Basically, there are 10 groups, and she has been put in 7th out of 10. She was previously in 5th out of 10 which has been very successful, as she is on a 6.5 in science already.

This 7th group now made up of just over half of the second from bottom group from year 8 plus about just under half from other random middle groups.

She has highest level in that group. Some of the kids in that group are working at level 4!

Top 4 groups are doing separate sciences, which we are not looking for her to do, but there are two groups above hers - i.e. groups 5 and 6 - that are still doing double award - have requested one of these but no joy. These groups would be the ideal choice as they contain similar levelled students and more people from her previous year?s science class.

Have spoken to science teacher and person responsible for timetabling - no response, basically it's no, leave us alone, this is how we are doing it. Timetabling person hasn't even responded to emails this time, not even common courtesy, I realise we are seen as a pain, but that's because we have to be because they keep doing this to her every year. Science teacher denies that she has been put down 2 classes when I know that she has.

The group she has been put in for science is using the same class list for technology subjects and ICT, meaning that she will be spending about half her time in this group. The group she?s been put in contains a boy who basically, because of his mental health issues, prevents others from working and is a danger to her on health and safety grounds. Nothing will be done about this boy because he is untouchable (ss involvement etc)

I think my daughter is discriminated against. As you can see from her levels and targets, she is a hard working, middle of the road, average student. She has no bad behaviour marks, has 100 percent attendance, never had a detention or anything like that. She just wants to get on, she always gets glowing reports and her progress since end of primary is amazing (I'm not saying her levels are amazing, what I mean is that her personal progress is amazing).

So the only reason I can think that they have tried to put her down every single year since she got to that school is that she has physical disabilities: and by grouping all the kids together that they see as 'problem' whether that's disabilities or behavioural, they can maximise use of classroom assistant?s/TA?s.

What do you think ? I can?t see any other reason for it, can you? Of course they deny this but what other reason could there be? Please tell me if I am missing anything.

Legally - Have I got a leg to stand on, is it worth me seeing a solicitor about this? At the moment, I have had enough and want to change schools but the change would do daughter more harm than good. I am sure it is discrimination and I promise I don't go around seeing discrimination everywhere - I am ready to see a solicitor if it would help my daughter, especially thinking about this time next year when it will be groups for GCSE and might affect her end results plus might lead to her being only entered for Foundation when she could potentially achieve B grades in some subjects.

Educationally - Teachers, can you give me some reason that I haven't thought of? I promise I am not one of these idiots who want their child in top set even though they can't write their own name etc. that is not what I am talking about here.

Special Needs - anyone faced similar experiences? Her special needs are entirely physical yet she is being put down like this. She needs every opportunity she can get because, let's face it, when she goes for a job interview, she has to be better than the other candidates to make up for her disability, that's the reality - she's willing to work and not be any trouble at school and this is how she gets rewarded?!

Sorry it's so long, but I wanted to make sure I've given all relevant info.

SORRY BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY IT'S CONVERTED ALL MY APOSTROPHES AND DASHES INTO QUESTION MARKS - I TYPED IT IN WORD FIRST THEN COPIED AND PASTED INTO HERE.

[FelicitywasSarca]

Honestly, I don't think consulting a solicitor would do any good.

Either your daughter is consistently poor in class but bizarrely good at pulling it out the bag for tests (unlikely, but not unheard of). Or there are wider factors that you are unaware of (dynamics, academic jumps for year nine etc etc) In which case the school are right.

Or they are wrong and have a downer on your child and involving a solicitor will not endear them to you or help your child in any way.

So it comes down to wether or not you trust them. If the answer is no. Move her.

[crazymum53]

Does your dd receive any TA support in lessons - it could be that if she receives a few hours support a week that the TA also supports another pupil in this group and it would not be possible to do this if your dd and the other pupil were in different teaching groups.
It could also be the case that this group use the classrooms that are most accessible to wheel-chair users, closest to the toilets etc. and that the school may think this is best for a pupil with physical disabilities.
I don't agree with the idea of using a solicitor either. There may be alternatives: many charities for specific disabilities publish guidelines for schools on how to support children educationally. The school may be unfamiliar with your child's condition, if it is rare, and extra guidance may help. It may also be possible to have an independent assessment of your child's needs carried out. I would ask about this on the Special Needs: Children board as this gets the most traffic.

[TheMonster]

She is obviously doing really well in her current group. Maybe she needs the sort of atmosphere and attention that she can get there in order to do well.

[admission]

Your daughter obviously has some special needs as she has a physical disability, so the first question I would ask of you is whether these needs are being recognised by the school. Has she for instance got a special needs statement or is she classed as being on school action or school action plus.
If her physical disability is not being recognised officially by the school then it seems strange that they would then, as you are alleging, discriminating because of her physical disability. If the needs are however recognised then you could be right that for some reason they are equating your child's special needs with low attainment.
Your daughter's result are what you describe, they are a middle of the pack level of attainment and as such she should be in a similar set. My inclination if you believe that the issues are real is not to talk to the person doing the timetable but to ask for a meeting with the deputy head responsible for attainment of pupils. Put it to them that your daughter's attainment does not seem to match with the sets she has been put in for the third year running and that the only conclusion that you can come to is that this is discrimination and that you are seriously considering an official written complaint under the Equality Act given what has happened for the third year in the row.
If you do that then you do need to follow through on it, if you again get no positive reaction. So be sure that you want to go that far before you say it. I would not involve a solicitor at this time but if it does get to putting in an official complaint then I suggest you will need to consult a lawyer who specialises in educational issues.

[whatstream]

Thanks for replies so far.

felicity no, she has consistently good reports for class time as well as tests, and also as i said, behaviour etc all excellent. i don't think teachers who know her have a 'downer' on her as they are always singing her praises at parents evening etc. it's the higher up staff who don't actually know her that do this.

crazymum she never gets TA support assigned directly to her, never has (another sore point - primary results might have been better etc!)
she is physically disabled but not wheelchair-bound so it's not that - but even if it was, surely they can't drop her down two groups so it's nearer to toilets etc! surely that's illegal?!
condition isn't rare. i've copied my op into special needs teens and special needs legal.



bodyofeeyore i think you've misunderstood me: i agree with you that she has done very well in her current group, but my problem is that they are now going to change her to a completely different group with people 2 levels lower than herself. it doesn't make sense. also, she has never particularly had special attention or any TA time specifically for herself etc


so far then, solicitor bad idea? why, because of 'putting school's back's up' ?

[noblegiraffe]

Have you been in to speak to the head? If you want to escalate this, then that should be the first step before solicitors.

[FelicitywasSarca]

Whats, sorry to hear this hasn't resolved.

I would say a meeting with the head is the next point of call.

I'm not sure what good seeing a solicitor would do. I'm not an expert but I don't imagine that they would be able to force a school to change it's course of action.

A meeting with the head, and perhaps ask for one or two of her 'favourite' teachers to sit in- teachers you/she feels know her true capabilities?

I can't help thinking sorting it out in house is the way to go.

[crazymum53]

It could be an administrative error. At secondary schools tasks get delegated among difference staff so it is possible that the member of staff who moved your dd up a set did not pass this on to the administrator and this is the reason that this is happening every year. this could happen to any child whether disabled or not.
My OH worked in Special Needs IT for an FE college and they did have specially equipped classrooms so that students with disabilities could access the computer systems. One lab was for students with visual/ hearing problems and the other for students with physical disabilities and it was this type of facility that I was referring to. However if your dd does not need special equipment to access the curriculum what I have said obviously does not apply.

[TheMonster]

No I did not misunderstand you. I'm a teacher and I do have a group of students who are all level 4-5, with one boy in there who is a 6. This is because he behaves in his current group and I can differentiate for him and give him the help he needs in that group. His behaviour would get out of control in a larger group and so his levels would suffer.

Also, does the school have full key stage 2 data for your DD? Schools often set according to that and any blanks just get put where there are spaces. It's a long shot, but a possible explanation.

[sancerreity]

her results don't sound that good to me.How do you know what level all the other children in the year are working at?

[sancerreity]

also meant to day at the school my dcs go to they produce predicted levels using a complicated formula which uses data from many different sources.This does include recent assessments but also KS2 SATS scores , CATS scores as well as parents occupations and postcodes.I think they also use maths results for science predictions . They may be using the result of this calculation to set children.
i would ask them.

[gillviola]

If she does not have TA support directly aimed at her but she has made good use of it in lessons then the school may have decided to put her in a group where she will continue to have access to support. You say that you wish your daughter had been given support earlier but unless she has been given a Statement then the school does not have to (and in the current climate are unlikely to be able to) provide it. Surely it is about the progress your child makes rather than the group she is in. Why not monitor her progress over the first half term and if you are still concerned then contact the school, this way you will have some evidence to back up your claim that she is in the wrong group.

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

Don't meet with the solicitor until you've at least been able to meet with the head of year/headteacher first. It might just be an unfortunate clerical error.

[Loshad]

6.5 in science, or a 6 b basically would put you into our lowest exam set, with only 40 kids on btec below so she may well be in the most appropriate set if 7/10.

[Loshad]

Also, not being funny but how do you know the current level of the other students. Do you know them all personally?
You cannot request your daughter to be moved if you don't like the behaviour of another student.
Ask again in case they have made an administrative error, and ask to speak to the teacher in charge of KS4 science, not her science teacher per se.

[lemonpie7]

I think you are taking levels far to seriously, they are only the snap shot of a moment, she will be working above and below those levels at different times. I think you are taking setting too seriously, not all kids can go into the "top" set - I frequently put someof my lowest ability into the "top" set, because it inspires them, and as they need separate teaching anyway, it doesn't matter which set they arein. "Sets" are not actually exclusively based on ability. Some students do better in smaller classes, and go into the smallest class, whichever it is, some studentshave other issues, which are taken into account. The school decides which set to put each student in, the idea of a soliciter is totally irrelevant. Your daughter has been twice tried in higher sets than the school wanted to put her, and clearly they don't want to try again. YOu don't know what all the other students have actually acheived, you may know what some of them have told you they have achieved! But you won't have the full picture.

Forget about worrying which class she is in. The only concern I would have is a) is she doing double science, (core and additional), she probably is, but if not then ask what you can do to give her that oppertunity. If the school does not believe she can achieve that in the timetabled time allowed at school, then it might have to be something extra you do outside of school. It is very rare for children not to do double, but I have known it, and it does put them at a disadvantage choosing A levels, if she wants to do A levels later.
b) double check she will have the oppertunity to access the higher paper, again, students doing gCSE in any set normally do, if the reach that standard, but check this out, at least in year 10 she should have that oppertunity to reach that standard.

[Kez100]

Your daughter has made good progress, I don't understand why you think the school have got it in for her. What matters is that she is in the right place to continue that and they have access to all the information needed (which is not all statistical) and you don't.

[noblegiraffe]

But why does the OP not have access to the information which will allow her to understand this decision? If I move a kid up or down a set, I would be able to justify my decision to any parent that queried it. That doesn't mean that the parent would agree with it, but I wouldn't expect them to be completely baffled.

[TimeChild]

Agree with lemonpie, easy to get hung up about grades. Lower sets tend to have smaller class sizes and perhaps with her disability, the school thinks would suit her better?

Also what does your dd think? Does she think she's been discriminated against?

[Lancelottie]

Science 6.5 in year 8 would be lowest set, Loshad? I'm really surprised at that. DS was around there at the end of yr 8 (we don't get sublevels) and has been in TOP set science for yr 9.

(And no, you cynical lot, he's neither particularly dim nor at a particularly bad school...)

[Loshad]

sorry lancelottie, didn't make myself very clear, 6.5 on starting GCSE's (so in our school half way through y9)

[Dominodonkey]

Whatstream I am amazed that any school still streams - every school I have taught in has worked in sets so you could be in a top set for English and bottom set for Maths.
From the figures you are giving me I would definitely put her in a middle set at my school (good comp) and would consider top (we only have 3 sets).

I think it is concerning that they don't seem to be able to clearly explain why she has been moved down. I recently did a long conversation with a mum when I moved her son down a set. I had data, detail of his progress and KS 2 grades and by the end of the conversation the mum was very happy that we were making the right decision. You do occasionally get delusional parents but you certainly don't sound like that and if you are the school should be able to say that your daughter is being moved down as every other student in her group has 2 sub levels higher (or whatever the reason is).

I do agree with other posters though, that litigation is really not the way to go.