Winchester College - for the cerebral ?

[timmytoes]

I would comments from anyone who has a DS at Winchester. It seems to me that the school is suited for the cerebral, intellectual child probably with a bias to the arts/pure maths areas rather than the child who leans towards the engineering/sciences/applied maths spectrum . Is this fair ?

[LittleFrieda]

I always think of Wykehamists as dutiful types. Not blokes you would necessarily choose to go and have a drink with alone, a bit dull (and I do have extrensive experience of its almuni). If you look at this here it's remarkable how many of its contemporaneous apparently famous alumni I've never heard of. Quite a contrast with the other big name schools (Harrow, Eton etc) Here is the list for Eton to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_20th_century The last time I visited the school was almost 10 years ago though. So perhaps it's changed.

But I'm sure HappyGardening will be along in a minute to tell you how super brilliant it is.

[Colleger]

Sorry, but why would you assume a school doesn't cater for engineers, sciences etc? All the good schools will educate your child fantastically well in whatever discipline they choose! Quite frankly, do you have any idea what your son wants to do anyway? Thirteen seems a bit young to know if your son wants to be an engineer. Maybe you should look at him enjoying his time at school rather than thinking of what happens at the other end.

[timmytoes]

Oh dear Colleger, still at least we can always rely on you to spice things up. I asked for opinions from those who have a child at Winchester - do you fall in this category ? If not, I suggest you move on to another thread, if you do a slightly more balanced response would be welcome

[Colleger]

I know plenty of kids at Winchester, my other son is hoping to go and my eldest got in. Write a balanced question and you'll get a balanced response!

[timmytoes]

In that case, I assume you do not think the comment fair ? The school website does not give much information re university destinations unlike some other schools so it is hard to judge whether the school has an academic bias to some subjects. This is is not a negative factor, just something to bear in mind as part of the overall jigsaw of making a choice for the best school for one's child. I have no doubt the school provides a first class education but it may not be the best choice for every child.

[happygardening]

No its not the choice for every child and I personally think that even if your DC is very academic its still not necessarily the right choice. But there is not a school out there thats suitable for everyone.
I can only tell you the little I know about science maths etc in my DS's house there seem to be lots doing physics/maths Pre U and hoping to continue it onto university I can't tell you if this is representative of all the boys but my impression is that maths/further maths and physics are very popular in fact looking at their website physics seems to come second after chemistry with regard to the numbers sitting it for Pre U. I think there is a lot of effort to try and raise the profile of DT but the number sitting it for A level are not published on their website they seem to only publish the Pre U results, also many sit maths A level at the end of yr 12 again these results aren't published. When my DS was at prep many of the teachers/parents seemed to believe that Winchester was particularly "big" for science.
Its so hard to know what subjects our children will like as they go through education. My DS is currently very keen on physics (but wasn't at prep) brought about by a wonderful physics teacher, he's now has no interest in geography (my subject so there may be a link there!) and having never been overly interested in MFL's is now learning a new one and wanting to carry it on to Pre U! Maths which is meant to be his real strong point has lost its appeal.
With regard to "famous alumni" I frankly don't give toss how famous or not Winchesters alumni are as I personally think fame is a positive handicap in life and wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy. If your shallow enough to choose a school by its alumni then Winchester is definitely not the right school for you.
IME experience Wykehamists are not brash or one of the lads but thoughtful and polite hardly surprising with the motto Manners Mayketh Man. I think your description "the school is suited for the cerebral, intellectual child" probably sums it up. My DS being a rather cerebral intellectual boy is super happy there and that is what matters to me. The one thing I do hear some feel that team sports are a low priority and I think this is probably true.
Hope this helps.

[happygardening]

I forgot to add no drama in the curriculum only as an extra curricular activity although there are at least four plays a term. The recent production of the Mikado was absolutely fantastic worthy of the D'Oyly Carte. Also no music for all only for those who choose to do it before they arrive and I think (you would have to check this) you have to be pretty musical to choose it as an option. Again lots of concerts I cant find this terms program but I think about 20 a term my DH is very musical and he's really impressed with the standard.

[yotty]

HG, you are worrying me about the drama and music. My DS loves his drama and enjoys being in the choir and orchestra although I wouldn't say he was very musuical( may have made it to grade 5 clarinet by the time he is 13). Will his music get overlooked as he is not gifted, just does it for fun?

[timmytoes]

Happygardening, thank you so much, I am very interested to hear that some boys sit maths in year 12 as well as the strong physics teaching. We are off to see the school shortly but I like to be well prepared with a list of questions/concerns so that we can make the best use of the time . My subject at uni was maths whereas DH was more on the arts/social sciences side so DS could go either way (at the moment he is definitely maths and science with a strong interest in D&T ) but I guess I would like a school that caters for all possibilities. The emphasis on DIV in the prospectus hints at a more arts , philosophical, intellectual bias but this of course may not be the intention or indeed the reality.

As an aside can i ask how many boys per room and does this vary by year/house ?

[Colleger]

With Winchester your child needs to be a go-getter to get the most out of the school. They have provision for everything if a boy wants it. I know my eldest would not have seized the many opportunities so we looked for a school where most activities were not optional. My other son is a different child and would get involved heavily in music and drama without any cajoling.

[happygardening]

Struggling to remember (old age) but I think with the letter confirming his place he had to choose one from art/DT, Russian and Music and then choose one two terms later to continue onto IGCSE I think RS was then added as an option. You can?t do art and DT you have to choose one or the other. I think to do music you had to be playing an instrument I didn't read it very closely as it didn't apply to my DS! Although you choose what you want to do your choice is not guaranteed both before you arrive and when you choose again after two terms. You also have to choose between Mandarin, German. Ancient Greek and Spanish and then choose one at the end of the first year and I think geography is then added as an option. Does this make sense? Unlike Eton there are no music (assuming you haven't already opted to do it) or drama lessons in the curriculum although I think you also have a singing test in the first few weeks and can be asked to join a choir again I'm a bit shaky on this as it was unlikely to ever apply to my DS! As I've already said there is lots of drama but the boys are very busy and they have lots of prep and they have to be able to make time for it with all their other extra curricular activities and 1st years are not allowed to do extra curricular activities after prep. Most things are ?voluntary? so it is possible to avoid doing anything if you really want too but why be there if that?s your attitude. Music is very strong but as you probably realise not something I know much about. My DS has found that lots of activities clash and that he has had to choose between two even three that he has done in the past or would very much like to try but such is life. The boys work very hard and when some have compared notes with friends from other selective schools they were a bit upset to find that they were being expected to work significantly harder and the lessons etc are maybe more serious.
OP with regard to dorms in my sons house they are in dorms of 6 for the first three years, in the first two years they have the mugging hall which is a common room for these years and has individual ?cubicles? where they do their prep and in the third year they are each given a little separate office of their own to do their prep. I believe as they go into the 6th form its single rooms and twin room although I might be wrong about this! I think in all the houses they are in dorms of at least 6 for the first two years and in the third year some may have smaller rooms but no the ?office.? Win Coll is exceedingly house centric and some may feel privacy is at a premium. The house and housemaster (HM) are everything and there is considerable variation between each house as the HM?s have considerable autonomy so you need to find one that you like we believ thats ours is fab. We found the open day coming up unhelpful and struggled to see what it was all about it was only when we ate in a house with some boys that we worked out what makes it special and if it works for your DS it is special.
Hope this anwers your questions.

[spendthrift]

Op, Ds isn't there but his cousins are and he had a place. As Hg says about everything, but I would add that his cousins, without being especially musical, are loving the choir. You get some privacy in your own cubicle in the study, your toy. Choice of house is really important and your housemaster makes the initial decisions.

I asked the headmaster pretty much the same questions as you. Feel free to pm me.

[spendthrift]

Ps, I wouldn't call either Ds's cousin cerebral. Reasonably intelligent and articulate, but pretty normal imv.

[happygardening]

As I've already said my DS is a bit of a "cerebral, intellectual child" so I can only speak for my own experience and for the first time in many years he is happy at properly stimulated at school. It does seem very competitive academically and I was once told by a member of staff when we first considered it that the only snobbery was intellectual! I wouldn't want my DS to be at the bottom of the pile there.

[gbxpat]

If you mean "cerebral" as nerdy, esoteric, inwardly indulgent and lacking ability to apply knowledge creatively, then I would say the very opposite tend to be true. It is fair to say that they are all competent thinkers. I used to feel that WC was too focused on knowledge that is out-of-sync and "over-supplied" today (classics, history, languages leading mostly to certain non-technical careers; I was dead wrong.

I would also like to look at it another way: WC's aim is to nurture curiosity, questioning mind, creative application of knowledge and live-long desire to learn. This is clearly not just rhetoric. I guess it is probably true that it is not trying to manufacture those traits into boys, but it looks for boys with them already and it is going to hone them. That is also evident in it selection process, particularly for scholars.

My experience with Wykehamists are very different from LittleFrieda's. The ones I know, old and young are great for conversations because they are engaging and genuinely interested in a wide range of topics.

You might expect its scholars for example, being at the far right of the curve, to be dull, nerdy, book-wormy, shy or you can spot them (other than the gown) a mile off, but again, the opposite is true. Most of them are lively, amiable and although it is fair to say that many have sometimes "unusual" interests to the point of being obsessive (everything about reptile venoms, Star Wars, playing transcribed music, collecting rocks, building models, flight simulations etc), you simply cannot tell until you really get to know them. The school I think likes that sort of interests and intensity, not the knowledge or interests themselves, but because they are generally things you cannot learn in school or from tutoring, and the boys must be sufficiently curious and self-motivated learners to get there - hints of the kind of starting materials it looks to hone.

WC produces a fair number of engineers, medics and professions requiring applied science. There are some really fun (and clearly different and intellectual) things the boys do, but describing them here so publicly may ruin them for everyone. If you are friendly with the porters, you may hear a bit and be very amused. Part of the tradition I guess. A significant part of what WC teaches is not examined or does not form any part of any exam syllabi. Likewise, WC does not appear in league tables much. It is not because it does not care about results, it does, but I think quite rightly, it feels that if it delivers its aim, the results will fall in place naturally. WC also wants its boys (and prospective ones too) to be able to wield and stretch knowledge, creatively and confidently, speculatively if necessary. The boys are typically bright (whichever way you wish to interpret that word).

College (scholars' house) is required by charter to mix boys from all years in each chamber (where they work and have discussions etc) and the mix is rotated thoroughly each term. This I think helps them to widen their curiosity and interests.

[happygardening]

I think it depends how you define cerebral. I define it as a thirst for knowledge often just for the sake of knowing and also this thirst for knowledge is not superficial but often in great depth and and it gives you happiness just knowing something; an inner sense of satisfaction.
Over lunch today he discussed the fall of the Roman Empire, a selection of poetry ranging from Roger McGough, Betjamin, Wilfred Owen and Hardy, a recent play we seen at the school and his "unusual" interest to the point of being obsessive which he has had the curiosity and self motivation to pursue. I suspect because its fine for your unusual interests to be different from your friends interests at Win Coll. We also discussed the current economic crisis in Europe and the worlds obsession with oil. I watched him chatting and laughing telling us about whats he doing and for the first time in many years I see a boy who is at last happy at school.

[gbxpat]

I agree with happygardening and it is about that freedom to feel happy and fulfilled without being made to feel awkward, respecting "different", seeing things from viewpoints other than your own, and not having any pressure to be trendy.

[gbxpat]

I agree with happygardening and it is about that freedom to feel happy and fulfilled without being made to feel awkward, respecting "different", seeing things from viewpoints other than your own, and not having any pressure to be trendy.

[Bluestocking1]

I have a DS at WC. He loves it. He is surrounded by boys who like learning stuff in an uninhibited way. There's a great blend of freedom and discipline. The teachers are like the boys, enthusiastic and unpretentious. You might say it's a bit unworldly, but I like that - they're not really interested in the rich and famous. He likes the sport too, it's well organised and done at a sensible level. I'm impressed by how fit a lot of the boys are. For a bright boy with an independent spirit you can't do better.

[IntlMama]

DS just got his firm offer for WC in his top House, he's over the moon as it was his top choice, seemed just best fit for his own quirky, maths/physics, creative and analytical personality - he's been talking about the orbitals, DT quadro-copter, science library, kind housemaster, and table of elements on wall since the first tour. His current school normally sends boys to Eton not WC, but they say he should try for elections to college. He's entering in 2019 so... shouldn't we start preparing already? Are there good tutors who can brief us?

[Allthebestnamesareused]

ZOMBIE THREAD FROM 4 YEARS AGO

[semideponent]

His current school should be able to brief you and may also have a scholarship program.

Election papers are hard and sometimes unpredictable. The one predictable thing is that the science practical rotates (I think) through Bio, Chem and Physics.

I think the thing to avoid is attempting to cram GCSE/A-level curriculum into their heads. You can't possibly cover everything! But focusing on problems, identifying the things that make them interesting problems and playing with ideas for solving them should equip him to cope in the exams.

The skill of working out meaning in context comes up repeatedly in English, French and Latin - that is, if you don't completely know the vocabulary/grammar already. I honestly do think they are most interested in thinking processes and less interested in the right answer. For this reason, the interview is quite important - it's where DS can show really clearly how and what he is thinking!

[semideponent]

And congrats to your DS! It sounds as though he will love it there.

No reason for not resurrecting a thread...

[IntlMama]

Thank you so much - really appreciate this advice! DS is already starting his own preparations too. He gets on fine with others, but hasn't always had many friends who share his interests. He clearly hopes to meet some at WC. And we've set up a meeting with his school, to discuss preparations for exam/elections. If they aren't very active, we can always reach out to find someone who advises.
DS really enjoys 1-1 tutoring if it allows him to explore more in-depth, not just cram info. (We've like the 'more of' racket learned from jmc/jmo, 'if physics goes well, you might be lucky enough to get a chance to do... more physics!) Warm thanks! On a different note, at present, WC materials seem to say no laptops in yr1 and limited in yr2. DH is unsure about that, though I think it is healthy. What are chances that they update the IT policy in the next 3 years? Is anyone discussing it at WC?

[Wincollparent]

Intmama I think you have to be clear why you want your DS to do Election. I know the kudos of scholarships and wanting to prepare in advance is siren-like when at prep school but the very bright interested boys will achieve their potential academically at Winchester independently of whether they applied or not for Electiom
IME many of brightest choose to apply for an Exhibition and stay in their house of choice rather than enter College. Before making a decision visit College and let your DS decide which atmosphere he prefers. Secondly for preparation he needs to learn to problem solve rather than j accelerate through the syllabus. I think there is an advantage in drilling grammar and vocabulary for languages earlier rather than later but otherwise I would advise him to be free to pursue his own interests with free reading, maths, , philosophical questions or whatever until the start of year 8. That will serve him best not only for Election but also for academic life at Winchester and beyond.
The houses now have WiiFi but I actually liked the no computer policy for the first year. I think it developed in my DS the ability to concentrate and read for longer periods of time than if he had been distracted by studying on his computer with google etc. They certainly are not held back by it for computer skills.