Year 8 , Maths levels

[coccyx]

Help. Daughter has taken 2 maths tests so far this term and got a 6b and 6c. The teacher says this is ok, but having seen some of her work I am concerned. My DD has always struggled with Maths and feels embarrassed to ask for help in class. She didn't even get 50% in the tests.
She has asked us if she could go down a set.
We are going to ask to see the teacher.
Any thoughts

[bruffin]

It depends what she got in KS2, but normally a level 6 at this stage of yr8 I would have thought would be more than okay, especially if she struggles.
What set is she in?
My DS (he has dyslexic problems) was top set for MFL and I had him moved down for MFL, partly because the teacher was not good and it took the pressure off him to perform to top set expectations and he was much happier.

[coccyx]

She is in the middle set. This years teacher is great so bit disappointed that DD will not ask her when she is struggling. We have had this since reception though so can't see her changing now!

[coccyx]

My concern is if she moves down a set then she will think its ok not to try that bit harder. She can be lazy and does say' I'm rubbish at maths so thats that'

[FridgeRaider]

Ah this sounds exactly like my year 8 DD. She began year 7 in a middle set and really struggled (levels then were 3A!) She was worried to ask the teacher for help and didn't feel the teacher explained well enough.
At the beginning of year 8 she has been moved down to bottom set and it has worked wonders! She doesn't feel that it's ok not to try harder, on the contrary, she does try harder now. Also she gets on better with this teacher, he explains things better and she feels she can ask him for help. She has made enormous progress in just 3 months and her current level is 5C and apparently 'on track'.
So perhaps moving her down a set would help your DD as it has mine. Her confidence has grown enormously! If your DD makes tremendous leaps then they may move her back up again at a later date.
I too would have thought level 6 would be good at what is still only the beginning of year 8.

[Kez100]

My son was moved down by the school in Maths and, because of Maths and Science being married on the curriculum, he was moved down automatically for Science as well.

It's been brilliant! He was so annoyed about it, he has kicked his Maths into touch and is working sooooo hard to stay at the top of the set. He finished last year on 5a and is currently hitting 7's on the areas of work being covered (obviously he isn't level 7 overall but he is getting the C grade questions right with extension work on the areas they are working on). He had some funny attitude towards the teacher when he heard about the move (thought - for no apparant reason - she hated him or something) but he got over that very quickly, and now they get on like a house on fire.

Lower sets has worked for him for Maths. I await his report to see what is going on in Science though. It's not had the same affect there and he is getting annoyed at the work level.

[coccyx]

Never heard of automatically moving down for Maths and Science. Is that common practice?
Bizarrely she is a level 7c for science and loves all aspects of it!
I will see what her teacher thinks. Interesting that a move to another set worked well for your children.

[Kez100]

It's a small school and Maths and Science have to go back to back on the curriculum. So, if you are in a certain set for Maths there is a limit to how high you can be in Science. The teachers then have to differentiate well. On the whole, in my experience (with a daughter in year 11 and having done nearly 5 years at the school) they do differentiate very well.

[FridgeRaider]

Yes I think it works this way at my DD's school too. She is in top set for English which is linked to other subjects meaning she's also in top sets for History....err...and I can't remember what else
Being moved down to bottom set in Maths meant she moved down in a few other subjects too.
But it hasn't been a problem at all for her, it has helped enormously.

[FridgeRaider]

Forgot to say - ours is a big school (nearly 1800 pupils) so don't think it's anything to do with size of school.

[kritur]

Level 6 in Year 8 is making pretty good progress I would say, especially if she finds maths difficult. More worrying is the attitude of 'I can't do maths, that's that'. If she has a good teacher currently then I'd leave her where she is even if she isn't confident asking for help. Good maths teachers are difficult to find! What's your maths like? Can you incorporate more maths into her everyday life? I only say this because as a tutor for GCSE I am finding kids who can't link up the maths 'topics' done in class with the functional maths questions in the exam. They can do each individual component but not put them together. So working out bills (especially mobile phone bills and best value), quantities for recipes, shopping lists, reductions during sales etc.

[bruffin]

The way DCs' school is arranged is that it is split into 3 streams with 3 sets within each stream. So easy to go down a set for just one subject within a stream because they are all timetabled the same, but to move down or up a stream means you have move for all subjects.

[FridgeRaider]

Forgive me if you already use these, but my DD finds the following sites really helpful with her maths:

Education City and KS3 Bitesize

[bigTillyMint]

Level 6 in Y8 is good. The governments expected level for a 14 year old (Y9) is level 6
The tests she was given may have been the optional SATs - graded level 5-7 or 6-8. So she would not have to score highly to get a level 6.

However, if she feels under confident, and you feel she is struggling with homework, then you should speak to her teacher.

[GrungeBlobPrimpants]

This thread is a relief. DS in top set and obviously been doing 6-8 tests and coming 'bottom' ie 6b or 6c. It's knocked his confidence no end to come 'bottom' but he's getting some additional support (a sort of afterschool maths club) as same system as bruffin - 3 streams and he can't swap.

He is a bit lazy and has been told to pull his finger out, mind

[noblegiraffe]

Less than 50% in a test might sound bad, but it depends on what the class average is. It is possible that she is actually nowhere near the bottom of the group, that there are pupils in the set doing worse than her and that she is just under-confident.

My school wouldn't move a student down a set just because a parent asked. The test results would need to show that that student was in the wrong set, or at the very least in the bottom 2 or 3 in the group.

[coccyx]

Thanks for your thoughts.
She is under confident and has been since her year 2 teacher ripped her maths work up! she remembers it well. I am keen she stays with this teacher as she seems to know that DD can do it ,just needs to believe it. and not be scared to try. I don't want her to use the excuse that she can't do maths as a reason not to try.
Can anyone recommend any maths sites

[bigTillyMint]

My DD's school uses My Maths for homework.

Topmarks has loads of great stuff for primary-aged children, and I think games, etc for KS3 too.

[busymummy3]

My DC went in Y7 with level 5 in SATS for English and Maths. Was also assessed as level 5 in Science as SATS did not test Science at the time. At end of Y7 level was 6C. First key assessment in Y8 still produced a level 6C. We are not overly concerned but feel may be should be progressing higher?

[noblegiraffe]

Sublevels are crap, please don't pay too much attention to them. Also, don't expect progress to be linear.

In maths, I would only really pay attention to a proper SATs paper as giving a decent leveled assessment. Any other shorter assessments such as end of term tests which are sat in one lesson don't cover enough topics to pinpoint a level accurately to a decimal place.

[busymummy3]

The level 5 achieved was on a proper KS2 paper (end of Y6) Y7 an end of year test (dont know what type of paper it was). First assessment in Y8 was an 'end of unit' test so we are not overly concerned think it just seems hasnt moved on much in a year . DC is in top set though and nearer the top of this set so must be OK.

[noblegiraffe]

Levels between KS2 and KS3 aren't the same. A KS2 level 3-5 paper doesn't contain algebra, a KS3 level 3-5 paper does. Progress also sometimes seems to dip in Y7 because the hot-housing that sometimes surrounds primary school SATs results in an artificially inflated level at the end of KS2.

At my school we don't even bother to try to level the results of an end of unit test it's so pointless.

Your child could be a level 6C overall, but then be better at algebra than shape. On a test that focuses on shape but doesn't contain any algebra, it could even look like he has gone down a level.

[barbaraavon7oaks]

If you go on www.crickweb.co.uk and then click on the left hand side Year 8 it shows you all the topics covered and practice questions.

A question will your child ask for help from other subject Teachers?

It is really important that your child overcomes this as the subjects get harder they will need extra help and need to be able to ask. If not now then at GCSE or AS or A2 or Uni.

[coccyx]

Thanks will have a look.
Yes she is not keen to ask for help from any teacher, we keep telling her that teachrs are there to help etc but still hesitant