GCSE options help.

[domesticgodessintraining]

Hello, I wonder if someone could help me. My DD is in year 9 we are now at the stage where we have to start choosing options for year 10 and GCSEs. She will most likely be put forward for the GCSE double award in mathematics and triple science exam chemistry, biology and physics. DD would also like to take geography, history, ICT, Spanish and business studies. Do you think this will be too much for her? She is a bright girl and finds all her subjects easy, because of this she does have a tendency to be lazy and often leaves revision to the last minute. Do you think the options she?s looking at will be too much?

[Lancelottie]

Where's English in this? Surely that's compulsory?

[domesticgodessintraining]

I didn?t mention English as it is compulsory. I just need help with the options.

[hellsbells99]

Hi. My DD is at the same stage. Got to do Maths (x2), English (x2), OCR in ICT. Wants to do triple sciences, music, Spanish. She has 1 choice left - looking at Product design, Electronics, Art or Geography. I favour the latter! She is very bright but doesn't like subjects that involve a lot of writing. Does anyone know how much work is involved in Geography? Universities seem to prefer 9 GCSEs with good grades rather than more but with lower grades.

[Kez100]

Thats 5 options and, at our school, the triple science students only get three. Is she allowed to do them all to start with?

Then the choice - all relatively academic and I'd advise a fun subject. However, she may think of ICT in that way, especially if its nt GCSE but a vocational course.

I would say it is too much but thats because of the apparant lack of fun plus the number chosen, which is 2 more than our school would allow.

[domesticgodessintraining]

Spanish is compulsory option language as she?s dropping Latin. They can choose from 4 options as well as doing triple science. Her choices 4 are geography, history, ICT and business studies. She spoke to her teacher regarding the geography and History options; he said that the two subjects involve a lot of work and suggested taking a softer option such as HE or performing arts. History is WW1 and Britain and Russia1890-1939 this year and Geography is tectonics, Ecosystems, rivers, costal zones, development, tourism and changing urban environments. The topics covered are something she will enjoy, so that?s half the battle but I?m worried that it will all become too much for her especially as the pressure builds in year 11.

[Charbon]

Are you in the UK OP? If so, this is another thread where I'm baffled that the school isn't telling you about the English Baccalaureate, which is what has been used to measure school performance for the past year.

This means that students who gain A* - C in English Language, Maths., Core Science, one language and either History or Geography, will be awarded the EB. Sixth forms and universities are using this as a measure of all-round academic attainment. Most schools are allocating 'pathways' at the options stage and in effect are not giving their brighter pupils many options. For the 'top' pathway, they must choose a Modern Foreign Language and History or Geography, leaving them with typically only two 'free choice' options. For the brightest students, this is normally Triple Science (one option) plus one other.

It is essential that your DD chooses subjects that will lead to the EB. The teacher you spoke to is giving blatantly misleading advice, because if your DD doesn't take a Humanities subject (History/Geography) she could be severely disadvantaged in the future. She might want to take ICT or Business studies as her other option, but do make sure she's chosen the EB subjects.

[hellsbells99]

I personally think the English Bacc is rubbish!
The Government has been critised over it and it looks unlikely that a certificate will ever be awarded - this was published by the House of Commons on the 1st November as part of the "The English Baccalaureate:
Government Response to the Committee's Fifth Report" : The English Baccalaureate is not a qualification and is not intended to drive universities? application procedures. It provides information on how schools are performing in subjects which we know lead young people to A Level study and equip them well for entry onto competitive university courses. It was already the
case that pupils who studied these subjects were more likely to progress on to further study and the publication of EBacc information means that this is now known more widely.

[Northernlurker]

Interesting. I am girding my loins for options night today - will come back afterwards! Atm my (v bright) dd is thinking History and Textiles for definate. She is torn bewteen French and German and between Art and Drama. I think we're going to struggle with this...

[titchy]

Maybe the school considers the EB to be (yet another) contrived way of measuring performance and they feel that their students' best interests are served by them doing subjects that interest them, and allow them to get the best grades possible.

The EB is NOT a qualification - universities do NOT look at it. Neither do 6th form colleges. The latter usually require 5 x A-C's and the former will look at A2 predictions first, then AS results, then GCSEs. The absense of a humanity is unlikely to raise huge red flags.

The OP's dd seems to want to do 2 humanities anyway plus a Language, ICT and Business. Which looks like a well balanced combination that will not restrict her ALevel choices, whichin turn will not restrict her degree choices. Assuming she is potentially an A or A* student these choices would be managable I'd have thought.

[Charbon]

I beg to differ. Our local sixth form providers publish the fact that they take into account the EB in their offer of places.

The school might well consider the EB to be contrived, but they are doing their students and their parents a disservice by not telling them about it and they need to be honest if they have made a decision to 'opt out' of the EB.

[HugosGoatee]

As a teacher - EB is a heap of ill-thought-through nonsense - don't worry about it in the least.

I'd say your DD has been well advised by the school - 2 humanities is a lot of work - is the performing arts course a GCSE or a vocational course? It would provide some balance and give her some different skills, practical ones to compliment her academic qualifications.

[kmdwestyorks]

As far as the EBacc is concerned English, Maths, 2 science, 1 humanity and 1 language is all that is required and that appears to be covered.

THe EBacc isn't important to HE at the minute because it's new. It will become so especially within the russell group HEI's where they have a hard enough job differentiating applicants.

OP your options look like they cover the breadth for both the EBacc and any future HE choices assuming thats where she heads, Triple science makes geography a little redundant if you wanted to drop one, although personally i would recommend keeping it. ICT and Business studies are the two "softer" subjects ( in as much as they tend to be taught differently and have more of a focus on formative assessment)

Speaking as a teacher, her choice looks very manageable for most bright students.

Laziness is fairly normal in year 9 especially for bright students. They always step their game up when they need to.

Hope that hjelps

[Charbon]

I think the OP needs to clarify how many options her DD has, as there seems to be confusion on the thread. I read it that in addition to Maths, English and Triple Science, she will have 5 other options and is considering Spanish, History, Geography, ICT and Business Studies. As long as she opts for one MFL and one Humanities subject from that list, I agree that it's unnecessary to do Geography AND History - and the workload for both is enormous. However IMO it would be irresponsible to dissuade a student from taking EBAC subjects, because of a political stance.

[domesticgodessintraining]

Thank you for all your replies. I?ve not heard about the English IB, so thank you for bring it to my attention. I think part of the problem is that I?ve not had any contact with the school regarding GCSE options; our meeting is scheduled for February. We had a booklet home last night hence my posts here this morning.

The advice given yesterday from her teacher was rather silly as she doesn?t like HE or performing arts. She likes art, her teacher asked her to take art GCSE but I think art GCSE is more about the history and less about the practical. I have also heard that most of the art work is done during holidays and I think this will take away valuable revision time from the more academic subjects.

It?s so hard to know what to do for the best.

[Charbon]

Can you clarify whether she's got the option to ditch language and both History and Geography? That's what I'm trying to establish, to help you with advice. Schools that are tailoring provision to cope with the Ebacc are not allowing the 'top pathway' to ditch a language or a Humanities subject.

If you don't know, I'd advise you to ring the designated person on the school's senior leadership team (usually an Assistant Head or Deputy Head) and ask that person about the Ebacc and whether the school is providing for it.

[titchy]

Charbon I find it very difficult tp belive that a 6th form college (I assume you're talking about a state 6th form?) would not offer a place to an applicant with 12 A*s simply becuase they didn't have a humanity GCSE.

[hellsbells99]

From my point of view I have encouraged my DDs to take options based on:

1. what they like
   
2. what they are good at
   
3. what may help them in their career whilst keeping their options open.
   I have a DD currently doing GCSEs already - her options are: triple science; music; art; and Spanish. Didn't take Geog/History as that would have meant dropping music or art both of which she is talented in and may lead onto a career. No interest at all in Geography or History so ultimately wouldn't have helped with a career. May wish to continue with sciences at A level (I hope so!) hence taking triple science. Predicted to get As and A*s in all subjects - if she works hard. IMO this is more important than getting a C in history - a subject she has always hated!
   Luckily the school advises about the Ebacc but doesn't pressurise anyone to take those options, although a language is strongly advised.

[startail]

If she likes science as well as being good at it, she'll find a lot of that geography syllabus quite fun. I loved glaciation and the other physical geography. Hated history, but got a stupidly good grade despite revising it all at the last minute.
Seriously, I'd look at how much work history and business studies are likely to cause. I've no experience of the latter, but my Y9 daughter refuses to do history a) because they study concentration camps and assorted other really depressing tonics and b) she does more history HW than anything else.

[startail]

Tonics= topics of course

[Charbon]

Titchy it is even more prescriptive than that. I am talking about sixth form schools, not colleges. The college would take anyone with a pulse, but the competition for sixth form places at the schools (since so many local secondaries only offer 11-16 provision) is fierce. In addition to preference given to students with the Ebacc standard, to study A levels at two of those schools, a student must have achieved at least a B at GCSE in those subjects, with preference given to As and A*s. These schools are offering a bit of latitude to students applying for places in September 2012, because they took their GCSEs before the Ebacc was introduced and it wasn't their or their school's 'fault' that they took non-Ebacc options. From September 2013 however, the Ebacc will be one of the sixth-form entry criteria for those schools and this is clear in their prospectuses.

It was one of the main reasons why our school 'opted in' to the Ebacc, despite the understandable fury at yet another knee-jerk government initiative that gave schools very little planning time. To do otherwise would have seriously damaged our students' prospects - and that's not fair or just.

[MorningPurples]

Do other humanities (e.g., RE, or ClassCiv) count for the EBacc? Just wondering as I know some pupils don't really want to do either history or geography (which sounds more like a science option anyway).

What is the double maths course that is being offered? I know a lot of schools round here only offer a single maths option.

I know some dyslexic pupils who really struggle with foreign languages are now feeling pressured to take them, so that they can get the EBacc, whereas before they might have been allowed to replace them with other options, or have extra English teaching during that time.

Art seems to be the most time-consuming GCSE I've come across, even for pupils who really like it. They seem to do nothing else on their weekends and evenings and holidays but art. And they'd chosen it as they thought it might be a softer option to give them a break from the academics. In content it might be, but in terms of time, it's been a huge amount of work, and several have regretted choosing it.

[domesticgodessintraining]

Charbon, DD is in top sets for maths, English and science. The tops set automatically are put in for the higher level maths, English Lit and language and triple science. They have to choose 4 options; DD is currently doing 2 languages, she will drop Latin in favour of Spanish as one language is compulsory. She has the option to do one, both or none of the humanities, she wants to do both.
I don?t think the school is part of the English IB as I?ve not heard anything about it. Sorry to be a pain, DD is my first child sitting GCSEs, it seemed so much simpler when I did them years ago LOL

[hellsbells99]

Hi MorningPurples. The only humantities that count for the Ebac are history and geography! - extremely limited.
My elder daughter is taking art and loves it - but it is lots of work and she stays after school 1 day a week as well to keep on top of it......but a lot of the work she can sit in front of the TV and do, so she finds it relaxing.
Currently trying to pursuade yr 9 DD not to take it as an option as she is really lazy and won't enjoy all the work!
Our school does Maths GCSE in yr 10 followed by either statistics or additional maths (if planning to do maths at A level) in year 11.

[hellsbells99]

whoops .....humanities

[HugosGoatee]

Charbon - I don't know what area you're in, but the main problem with EBacc is that it doesn't include any Arts subjects!

So how can 6th forms say that students must have the EBacc if say the student wants to do say A-Level Music or Art? The EBacc is narrowly prescriptive and a political fad, and I'd personally be wary of 6th forms which have leapt on board and demand it - they are devaluing Music and Art, and also Drama and others. Universities value breadth of study and would never penalise say a med candidate who had straight A*s at GCSE including Music! EBacc would prevent this.