WOULD YOU TAKE HOLIDAY IN TERM TIME IF THREATENED WITH PRISON OR A FINE?

[ibizagirl]

I am a single parent and each year my mum pays for dd and i (plus mum) to have a nice holiday in Ibiza to same hotel. Usually go some time in July for a week so only 5 days are taken off school. In primary school there was never any problem. Dd is now in year 8. Upon starting year 7 i went to school secretary and asked about policy for taking holidays. She told me up to 10 days could be taken in one go and to fill in form. I filled it in the same day and took it back to same secretary. She looked at it and said it was all correctly filled in and as it was the last but one week of July it would be fine as school doesn't do anything and that my dd's attendance was 100% and work was excellent. Then told mum and she booked holiday and managed to get a free child place - first one ever! Xmas came and went. In February i received a letter saying that Dd could not have time off because it was term time and would not be classed as exceptional circumstances! If i was to take Dd out of school i would be liable for a £1000 pound fine or prison. Sounds nice! Although school secretary told me all was fine. Went straight round to school and showed letter to SAME secretary and she denied saying anything to me about being able to take time off and that it comes from lea not school. I was livid and asked to speak to someone else. The head came out and said that school policy was no time off. I felt stupid and went home. Told mum who changed booking to August, lost free place obviously and had to pay just to change it too. That i was not bothered about. Come July when our original date was and i knew of at least 5 children who were taking holidays and indeed did go on these holidays. I was straight back to school, had my say and asked what would happen to the parents of these children. Was told nothing would happen as school cannot really stop them. Would they get fined? No. Prison? No. And nothing was said to them on return. Now mum is thinking about next year. Would you book it and give holiday form in straight away or leave it to last minute and just go? Sorry post was long but i am still mad about it now!

[Kez100]

We take no holidays in term time at all. Threats or no threats, children need to be in school and learning. Whatever their level.

We go on holiday in the summer . We ususally camp in the UK because thats what we can afford but do go to France if we get a deal.

[GypsyMoth]

Those last few weeks in July are the start if new term here! So year 9 would start in June. It utilises the 'dead' weeks far better than the kids sitting around playing scrabble and watching dvd's and means new teachers/tutor groups/timetables/lockers etc etc are all sorted out before the hols. So come sept, it's straight into work, no messing. More and more schools are adapting this approach too

So July would not be an option here at all

[faeriefruitcake]

The policy may be no holidays in term time but if your child is present for the rest of the time they wont prosecute.

Attence below 80% triggers prosecution, visits from EWO etc.

[MaureenMLove]

My school fines regardless of attendance. Rules is rules. No holidays during school time.

[slavetofilofax]

I wouldn't do it anyway.

[faeriefruitcake]

Your school cannot fine regardless there are processes that have to be followed before it goes to court.

[LidlVoice]

I think it's important that children are in school during term time. There are 13 weeks holiday each year - surely that's enough time to have a holiday? We have never taken the DCs out during term time, and consequently have holidayed in this country or in very cheap places in France. Why not go during the May half term holiday if Summer prices are a bit steep?

[RaspberryLemonPavlova]

What does your school do during that last week? At my DCs school there is no teaching the last week, there are trips to France and Italy for some, Y10 is on work experience and the rest of the school has activity days.

[SenseofEntitlement]

I think it depends tbh. If they were going to a particular event (family do, festival involving a special interest of the child, contest or performance of something they are good at, event of lifetime significance - ie a trip to see Rome or a lecture by a prominent person or tour of parliament with the local MP) then I'd have them out of school like a shot, and woe betide any school that thinks they know what is best for my child's education better than me.

But not to get a cheaper holiday in a tourist resort. Call me a snob, but I don't personally see saving money on something non essential as worth the fight.

But then I am the kind of parent that has my under 5 DCs in museums and doing projects and puzzles in holidays anyway. Plus I really want to HE but can't, and would grab flexi schooling with both hands if ever possible. Plus I love a good dispute when I know I am right. Plus I hardly learned anything in lessons till I got to college anyway for various reasons, and in fact learned more when I was able to go home or to a room to study. So I am pretty biased.

Still, I didn't learn anything (apart from that insects are bigger in hot countries) or get any benefit on a family trip to Corfu when I was 14 and in fact refused to go on any more and stayed at home instead reading books and drinking vodka from the next year onwards. So, again, I am biased.

So, my conclusion is - yes to term time holidays for date critical and important events (ie it would be impossible to do at another time) but no for simply saving money on luxury trips.

[SenseofEntitlement]

Also, the only family holiday we have ever been able to afford was a butlins trip, and, while being very enjoyable, I don't think it really beats school unless there is something unusual going on. I suspect an Ibiza holiday would be the same.

[RiversideMum]

I think most LAs are encouraging schools not to give permission for holidays during term time. Let's face it, the type of holiday you describe is really for the adults. My children have stayed in plenty of hotels, but the holidays that have given them the best memories are camping in England with friends and staying in a mobile home in France when we took our own car and they had their bikes with them.

[ibizagirl]

Thank you all for your replies. Raspberry, like yours there is nothing going in at school for the last two weeks. Some go on school trips abroad yes but other than that there is nothing. Sense, i know what you are saying but its nothing to do with the price of the holiday. My dd has been lucky enough to go to this hotel from the age of 2 and obviously likes it. We became friendly with a couple of families who also stick to the same time (although they go for two weeks and us one) and so we just plump for the same week if available. It is also one of the weeks my mum can have off from her work. It is difficult to have school holidays off as most of her workmates have children and will take their holidays then. It is normally only July and the beginning of September that my mum can have off and i would not choose the beginning of a school year. RiversideMum, i don't really understand why you say this holiday is for adults? Yes you probably did have a good time camping etc but i tried it years ago and hated it so would not do it again. We have stayed in a caravan in England with dd before and it was in summer and it was a complete washout. Awful. And dd hated it. Never again.

[fivegomadindorset]

Yes, but as we work every holiday then we apply under exceptional circumstances, I don't think that you qualify for exceptional circumstances.

[knittingmaid]

Ibizagirl, I know a bit about these situations but my knowledge is based on london and it does differ by local authority.
You have to find out the facts of the fines in your area first. Some people do get fined but its not from the school - they have no power to fine - it will come from the education authority ie the council. I have never heard of a £1000 fine but I do know people who have received fines of c£50 - £100. It is usually a per child fine and applies to each parent. Check out the level of anti social behaviour penalty fines in your area, the LEA fine is usually the same level as this.

HOWEVER, if your child has ever been on social services list or has had any other issues with the school or local education authority e.g. persistent lateness etc ect, then you have to watch out. In these cases the fines and approach can differ and can get VERY serious.

Assuming none of the above, the way to do it is to go on holiday in the last week of term. Do write a letter informing them but only hand it in a few days before you leave. If you are lucky they will already have sent the terms attendance sheets into the education authority and so your childs absence won't be a big issue. It is then up to the school if they decide to inform the LEA or not - if they don't then you won't get a fine.

Lots of people go on holiday in the last week of term and the fines are not really a deterrent as they tend to be far lower than the cost savings of the holiday. But I'm talking about parents who don't have any other issues within the school and who are not viewed as "problem" families - the latter are treated very differently indeed.

Good luck!

[ibizagirl]

Thank you knittingmaid. No we are not a problem family or anything like that. It really wouldn't be a problem taking a holiday another time i suppose (like we went in August this year) but it is all to do with how i was told yes then no and nothing happening with other families who took their children out for 2 weeks. If we were all treated the same i would not have even posted here. I knew three of the children's parents did get letters to say they couldn't go and ignored it and just went. Nothing was said. And one of the families IS known to social services so there you are. At primary school the head always said my dd deserved a holiday as she always worked so hard! It doesn't work like that at high school though!! And then there are the ones who skive etc and nothing gets said to them either.

[Portofino]

Here you only get one day with a doctors note - or exceptional circumstances. If I removed dd for one week in term time to go on holiday, she would lose her school place. Much more a deterrent than a fine....

[Portofino]

without a dr's note I mean....

[SenseofEntitlement]

I don't get how they can fine you - if you are giving your child a full time education while you are away (which is not hard for two weeks, tbh) you are not breaking the law. Yes, it is annoying for the school, fair enough, but how on earth would a fine be enforced?

[redglow]

OP i have gone away in term time every year and never been fined even when they have not given permission. I cannot afford to go on holiday abroad in the school holidays, otherwise we would have to go camping which we all hate a weekend is bad enough. If they did fine me then the next year I would make out they were ill for the week.

[sashh]

Unorthorised absence is the difference between an outstanding ofstead and a good, or a good to a satisfatory.

The HT may actually think there is no problem with the holiday but has to think of the net ofstead.

[tewhau]

Seriously? Ofsted ratings vary depending on unauthorised absences? In that case I have a little more sympathy for schools requiring the forms be filled out, but not for a system that rates on that.
Personally, I just count the possible £50 fine as a potential extra expense of going away. As with other posters, I wouldn't take a whole week out just to go to a resort in Ibiza, but I suspect that's an indication of my values, not yours.

[ibizagirl]

Thank you tewhau.
But it said £1000 fine on my letter! Like i said, to be honest i am not bothered too much about going away in term time but it is how it was handled. School telling me it was fine to take dd out and then telling me no but lots of children were off. And nothing was done. I just would have liked something said to the parents. It needs to be one rule for everyone. I think this thread has run its course so thank you all for your opinions.

[sashh]

tewhau

Yes, it's daft, a school can have every observed class as outstanding but not get outstanding overall because of low attendance.

By the same token some schools rated as outstanding can have teaching of some classes rated poor.

It's the same with any measure though. I taught a delightful A Level student who arrived in the UK from Poland aged 14 with no English and left her school 2 years later with 10 GCSES A-C and one D.

Now I think both she, and the school must have worked hard, but because the D grade was English Language ths school missed out in the league tables.

When parents are considering secondary schools and look at league tables and the number of EAL children they think it is a bad school, but if a school, that in two years can teach a child English fluently enough to succede in 10 GCSEs, what could they do with little Johnny or Alice whose parents reject the school.

[bossboggle]

Yes there are 13 weeks holidays a year - my DH doesn't work school hours - he is employed by an large international company and he is given his allocated days off - his employers do not consider school holidays they consider the company and rightly so - my husband has a job, anything else has to fit in with that job including if we are lucky enough - a holiday!! If my husband decides that we have a break when he is off for his fortnight then we go - what do we do leave my DS at home because he is at school?? Sorry my DH has four weeks allocated by his employers - they are fixed - no if's no buts hubby's holdiays come first last and always!! Everyone else is flexible - he isn't!!

[Kez100]

Quote: "Sorry my DH has four weeks allocated by his employers - they are fixed - no if's no buts hubby's holdiays come first last and always!! Everyone else is flexible - he isn't!!"

Err......your children have holidays, they are fixed too. The children's holidays are not flexible, you have chosen to make them so.