Year 11, Excluded for bad behaviour (although no one incident in particular)

[NewOldParent]

OK, first up, I'm the parent of that child that is causing your child to have a disruptive education so please consider this before blaming your child's school - us parents of disruptive children need help and advice too.

A bit of history (I have to be careful here as my ex may well be a member).

My child has been given a fixed exclusion for behavioural reasons. If I'm honest, there's nothing wrong with him other than a low educational age and a low tolerance threshold. He has been seen by more professionals than I could care to mention and we have never been given a diagnosis.

Until recently, they lived with my ex (after Divorce). There was little discipline (discipline that was given, the child ignored and was allowed to get away with this). Bear in mind that at 14, they could come and go as please and regularly stayed out until 1am.

The child now lives with me. My ex can no longer cope.

My problems are as follows:

1. We had behavioural problems at home originally. The child now has set boundaries and is sticking to them - they must be in by 6:30 for tea. Providing homework has been completed satisfactorily, they can go out after tea and must be home by 9pm. At weekends, they can stay out until 9:30pm, but meal rules apply. As I said above, we now have 100% acceptance and abidance. The child has been suitably rewarded for this and receives a small amount of pocket money.
   

1. We have the same behavioural problems at school. I was hoping that I could, certainly initially, leave school to punish for school incidents. I told the school that the child now lived with me and that I would need support from them. However, the school now feel that they can't control the child and needs some exclusion. I have been told unofficially but from an inside source that the child is also on the "School's Hitlist" to permanently exclude. There was a shortlist of "removals" who have already been removed and the child is next on that list.
   

I'll be honest here - this child is 14-15, is a popular child and has a "rep" and is very sociable.

Now, I have my local LA, exclusion officer, CAMHS and SEN teacher involved as well as engaging with the school head teacher. The exclusion officer is very keen to reward excellence rather than punish failure. I agree with this to a point, but the school's stance is clearly to continually reward failure and get rid ASAP. The child has been on a "report card" for a month and we have yet to have a good day.

So... my question is......

How do I reward good behaviour at school? I get no report from school other than his report card. We never get a good day.

Should I punish them? Bear in mind that they have already been thrown out by the other parent. How should I punish them?

[Kez100]

Them? They? Who are we talking about here?

[scaryteacher]

Can you go and sit in on lessons for a day? What is he on report for? Is it specific and attainable? If not, why not? Does he know what he has to do in each lesson behaviour wise?

[gelatinous]

'they' would seem to be the OPs way of concealing the gender of the child in question by my reading of the post.

OP I admire you for all you have achieved with the home boundaries. All I can suggest (and I have no relevant experience at all) is that you keep talking with the school, make them aware of the progress that has been made at home and insist on better reporting, without which you can't implement sanctions to help improve school behaviours. I can only think that if you are actively in discussion with them it will be harder for them to exclude your child. As for punishments, I'm not sure. They would need to be appropriate (not too draconian), and as immediate as possible if you do use them.

[MintAero]

Firstly, well done on getting the home life sorted with the boundaries and rewards. I shouldn't think that was easy.

It is a shame that the school cannot take on board the great efforts you have made to ensure his homelife is stable, and therefore deal with his misdemeanours along the same lines.

I would ask for a meeting, and request that he goes on report, therefore you will get an inkling of exactly what is going on at school. It could be certain lessons only, or certain teachers he has a personaility clash with. From that you will betweeen yourself, your child and the school be able to work on a plan to overcome the problems.

IMO the school is not being supportive to you or your son.

[schoolhelp]

From what you say, I think if he were mine, I would expect it to take time and a lot more of what you're already doing, but hope he will get the story in time to not have to repeat his GCSEs.

He's getting love and attention and improving in his home relationship and behaviour. That's the most important thing. The worst punishment would be for that to be conditional or withdrawn, and how could that possibly help?

I know of another child who would probably self-describe as popular, with no inhibitions about attaching to others. I also know from DC that those attachments are without genuine affection or support. Child in question never goes through any day without misbehaving in class or being grossly insensitive about others' bereavements, appearances, efforts; you name it, from the ultra trivial to deeply emotional. Hence perpetrating easily a dozen incidents of bullying behaviour daily, of which less than half are formally recorded. Even the non-teaching staff are monitoring the rise up the permanent exclusion scale. Initially has led others also to mount the warnings ladder but their families have supported them off, and they are staying away from said child. No child or teacher wants that child in their class. Yet the child appears normal and not obviously delinquent, if a little attention seeking. I'm sure that the parent never knows the detail, the school already has several full time jobs dealing with the fallout from said child. There is truly never a good day. Not for the other children or teachers anyway.

I think if that parent worked with that other child to increase awareness and truly value why they need to change, they still need time to practise the changed behaviour and thinking. Also it would take a long time to convince others, and the 90+% of children already hurt repeatedly by that child's behaviour may not all respond "perfectly". For you, that is a lot to handle in year 11. For the others as well as for him.

I'm not conversant with what the options may be, what a PRU can provide in support. What his aspirations are. If he is 14 now, could he attend year 10/11 at another school next year after a full year's "rehab" into less dysfunctional behaviour? Or if he is bright, could he attend a private tutorial centre and get the GCSEs there, start afresh after? There is the real question of whether he can ever reach his potential over a short time in an environment where as you say he already has a reputation.

[NewOldParent]

Wow! So many questions... I'll do my best. Thank you all ever so much for reading this through and answering.

Firstly, Kez100, yes, I have to be careful because I don't want to give too many specifics away.

scaryteacher: I'm not sure, but that may be an idea. I know that the school did have an assessor sit in the class for a few lessons (I can't remember the test they do, but the outcome was basically "disruptive child"). It's not specific - it's simply either disruptive or refusal to do work. We don't get any "I don't have to, you can't force me to so I won't", it's simply sitting with a blank page syndrome. Reading age is below 10 and there is supposed to be support in place (although it's not being followed up and it's on my radar). As for knowing what to do in class, this isn't new - it's been going on since year 3 and we have a SAP plan in place which isn't reviewed as often as I'd like, however, I am now in control (which of course comes with residency) so I have much more say.

gelatinous: This is the approach I think I'm going to take with the re-integration meeting I have with the school. County advised me that I have the right to ask for regular updates. As far as punishments are concerned, the child doesn't really have a lot - an Xbox that they rarely use, a phone, an MP3 player and freedom. They really don't want for material things so it's difficult to punish other than take away freedoms.

[NewOldParent]

oops, schoolhelp: many thanks, that came in as I was writing the reply.

OK, so we've decided it's a "he" so we'll continue....

He is definitely a popular child - I know people in the school and they say that outside of the classroom he is well liked, the girls appear to like him too (that's another issue that I'm currently working on - year 11 and hormones!). In the past, I think we've always blamed the behaviour on the reading difficulties because he is articulated and intelligent from an oral point of view.

I am going to find out what pastoral and PRU support we can get. We have already been told that due to his behaviour, the college support often available to non-academic pupils is not available.

I know it might sound odd, but the humanities and English classes are not a problem - his poetry teacher genuinely sounded disappointed about his exclusion in an email to me and she's looking forward to him returning to class.

As for other schools, we live in small town. There are 2 schools. This one is more ideally suited because it is an academy which promotes sports and vocational subjects (hence the reason for sending him there). The other is highly academic. Clearly, money is tight as a single parent so private tuition is probably out of the question. I hope you can tell that I would regard myself as fairly well educated so I am more than happy to provide any educational support as required (I'm currently reading up on Henry V, circuit training methods and WW1 poetry to help with the work which has been set whilst away from school)

[NewOldParent]

I've just realised, he's not year 11 either is he? he's year 10. Duh.

[scaryteacher]

The report card should have the targets he has to meet each lesson i.e: finishing all the classwork, handing homework in on time and behaviour. Both you and he should be aware of these. They should be SMART targets, sustainable, measurable, achievable/attainable, realisitic and timed (i.e for 2 weeks say).

The report should be reviewed by his tutor, HoY and you at the end of each day.

If he has a reading age of less than 10, then he will have difficulty accessing the work, and may be tuning out because he doesn't want to admit he can't cope - loss of face/cool factor etc.

Has he got an IEP in place? If so, all his teachers should be aware of it and including this in their planning. Contact the SENCO and ask for it to be reviewed with you. What is his form tutor doing? When some of my year 11s were playing up, I used to go and sit on on the classes where there were difficulties during my frees to see if I could pinpoint the problems, or just to have a look at how they behaved. Those on report used to have to see me at break and lunch to show me what their progress had been like during those lessons, and at the end of the day, so they knew I was watching them like a hawk.

[NewOldParent]

Thanks Scaryteacher. I've actually just put in a written request for his IEP, his SAP (he has one) and his PSP as well as a copy of his records.

As far as the target card was concerned, there are 3 types of achievements, graded 1 - 4 (1 being exceeds expectation) These were Behaviour, Work in class and Homework. It was only recently that I became aware that he was even on a target card which is one of the questions I have for the interview. The one that I did see, was mostly 1s interspersed with 4s and really little else in between. There are 3 particular subjects which are causing pain.

I will be asking to speak to the form tutor although the school he is at has a vertical support system rather than a horizontal yearly one (When I was at school, we had both so this somewhat confuses me).

His report card has been signed, apparently, personally by the head teacher.

I have a meeting in the morning. I have several questions to ask and whilst I have absolutely no intention of appearing combative, will probably lead to some awkward answers. As I have said above, I make no excuses for him and I have no intention of shifting the blame onto the school.

I guess a problem we have had since early years is that because no-one was prepared to diagnose any particular problem, (although as above, we have been through CAMH, emotional counselling as well as anger management) he is not really treated as having SEN and thus is not particularly prioritised and expected to "get on with it".

[mummytime]

He sounds as if he should be categorised as SEN, as at least BESD (behaviour, emotional and social difficulties). So do ask about that. Also don't be afraid to bring on the emotional angle, about difficulties of his change of residence etc. Also any move to exclude should go through a length proceedure involving outside agencies to try to help him turn around his behaviour.

[schoolhelp]

Having read more about where he's (not) struggling, there looks to be lots to hold onto and work with. One question which I could not find the answer to in your descriptions is whether he's had a full assessment by an EP.

A full assessment will allow him to evaluate his progress and behaviour by his own standards, and not other people's norms. For e.g. he may say yes I know I have this blockage, so that's why they're faster/slower and this is how I have to tackle it. Not just keep doing what others do with increasing frustration. Hopefully removes a lot of need for emotional management.

An EP assessment is just a diagnosis. It may mention extra time or laptop use, so can be frustrating for some who expect a cure. Here, though, from what you've said he can and has changed quite effectively, so it may acknowledge his experiences and allow him/you to be confident about how to be positive about tackling the more difficult areas.

IMHO you're right to take control of how he'll get the best out of his education. School pastoral care is an unreliable animal, and if it were a car, it would not be fit to drive, because although it may be superb sometimes, the brakes and steering fail too often on the motorway. So only use it with your own ejector seats and with the roof down...

[spendthrift]

Not a professional here, just a mum with a dyslexic child who acted as the class clown for ages because although bright and reasonably creative couldn't cope with reading or following instructions- very common behaviour.

Completely agree with scaryteacher. If his reading is that far below he will be finding secondary a nightmare: it demands a huge level of organisation, getting to grips with different teachers and their styles, finding one's way around, as well as the academic work.

So as well as discussing the EBD side, I would ask what support the school can give to get reading up to standard. It will liberate him.

BTW, don't know if he likes reading (DS doesn't), but we've gone down the buying him from time to time men's magazines (not top shelf ones, obviously), and most of the tabloids are written in KS2 English. so the sports reports are a good entry point.

[Loshad]

his teachers should be providing materials he can access though, even with a reading age of 10. I've bottom set Y10 this year, 3 of whom have reading ages of primary school pupils. TBH i probably spend more time producing differentiated materials for that class than any other, but it's worth it in that behaviour issues are much less if the students can access the work.

[RosemaryandThyme]

Sounds like your really trying to help with his school work by investigating topics yourself. Also sounds like a complete waste of time as the absolute basics are not in place.
Abandon the frilly stuff and teach him at home to read properly first, stop waiting for some dim and distant reading support to appear - if the school system hasn't got him reading at an age appropriate level by now it never will.
If he is hanging around at home now having been excluded that's a great oppotunity to drill him hour after hour in learning to read, none of this gentley gently nonsense, drill push shove practice bribe drill practice bribe over and over again.

[eastnorth]

Think that could be easier said then done Rosemary.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Does the school offer functional skills classes?

All of my bottom set year 10 have a reading age of less than 10. They all do English, Maths, Science and then a range of vocational qualifications, and functional skills.

However, they are all low ability students by most measures (verbal and non verbal reasoning as well as reading age and prior attainment measures).

If he is permanently excluded, the school is still responsible for his education. Unless they can arrange a managed move (which would be with your agreement) it is highly unlikely that they will want to permanently exclude as that is ruinously expensive for the school.

Does the school have any in house alternative provision? We have both an alternative curriculum programme and a shorter term support programme for students at risk of exclusion.

[RosemaryandThyme]

A whole bottom set of year 10 with low reading ability ? Is this usual ?
How can they access English or Science with such poor reading ?

Is it only me that thinks the reading side needs to be achieved before anything else is possible ????

[rainbowinthesky]

Children can access all subjects regardless of reading ability. Literacy can be also taught in other subjects.

[mrslaughan]

I would love to know if he has had a Ed Psyche test and specifically for Auditory processing issues...... This is where the Ear and brain do not function well together. My DS apparently has issues here, only just found out. So he can be in class and hear the instruction but not understand what to do straight away...he needs to see it done. It's from my understanding a relatively new are, and children in the past have been labelled as un-co-operative, lazy or disruptive.
I think it would really be worth investigating......

[RosemaryandThyme]

rainbow - Eh? children can access science regardless of reading ability ???
How could they manage homework, looking things up, using text books, following instructions written on the white-board???
Unless every single word is spoken to them, teacher/computer generated voice?
Am struggling to picture how accessing any cirriculum could work for someone with limited reading skills.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I don't use text books very often. We read things together (that I have written!) and I use lots of DARTs (directed activities related to text) in order to help support their reading. We use writing frames to help structure their work. We do lots of practicals!

Would I rather they came to me able to read to an age appropriate level? Of course! Do I think them learning to read is of prime importance? Again, yes (well, that and basic number skills).

But Science is a core subject. And rightly.

[rainbowinthesky]

I take it you're not a teacher, Rosemary.

[rainbowinthesky]

I haven't used a text book to teach for years.

[maypole1]

Firstly a change of school is not always a bad idea child may have goon a bad name and ven if trying to change mud sticks



Secondly I run the system that punsihed at school means punished at home and reward at school means rewarded at home so my child know he has to behave at school as well as at home


So for inatsnce if son was rude to a teacher on a Friday but had plans to go out with mates he would not be expecting those plans to happenes


Works with my child a treat hence he's good as gold at school and at home also if hes playing up at home I would be inclined to ring the school as their likey to get attauide as