stay independent or move into state for secondary?

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Trying to decide between keeping DD in independent sector or move her to state for secondary

At the moment she is at a lovely prep with senior school (in yr6 at the moment)

She loves the school and wants to stay on into the senior school. We struggle with the fees at the moment. The senior school fees are approx 10% more than the prep. She is sitting for a scholarship which would cover 10% of the fees.

The other option is the excellent local girls comp. Within walking distance so very likely to get a place, good academic reputation, seems to be good for the extra curricular activities she likes. But being honest it is not as good as her present school. But it is free.

If she goes to state, would relieve a lot of financial pressure. If she stays independent we may have to downsize the house to free up some capital. Not keen to do this as we love our house.

Have put in application for state but have to make decision by March, which is when places are offered.

Also have DS in yr4, is at present in v good boys prep. Boys state options are much worse than girls, would not really feel happy with any of the boys schools on offer.

What to do? Would I be terrible to consider putting DD in state, but keeping DS private? I pay for lots of extra curricular activities for her while DS just does stuff at school. Should I keep struggling to pay the fees or give up the fight to ease the financial situation?

[FrogPrincess]

we moved dd from an exellent private girls school (with an excellent senior school most of her school friends move up to) to an ex private school turned academy (co-ed as well, which we really wanted) this year in year 7 and she seems very happy. She's made friends, feels very comfortable there, and has stayed in touch with her old school friends too (although I can see it's going to take some effort to keep these friendships going). Paying fees at secondary level would have been extremely stressful as dh has just started his own business and I am a freelancer, so zero security for either of us!
We also wanted a wider social mix and co-ed education for her, and she is still doing loads of extra-curricular activities (with yet another bunch of friends).
It has been very positive for all of us tbh, stress levels have gone down (even though it was stressful at first to have to move her and you do worry about making new friends, etc), and it's easier to do stuff together as a family (theatre trips, restaurants, etc) now that the finances are looking healthier!
If I were you I would certainly consider the move, it sounds like the girls comp would be a great option. Good luck.

[bobs]

It's a horrible decision to have to make but only you can make it!!
We did state prep, then private senior - DD1 is now 6th form with an Art Scholarship and DD2 has an Academic Scholarship but they're not worth that much - also discount for 2 kids at same school.
The deal was they would both go private Y7-Y11 (gcses) - they had no say in the matter really, but then they could decide where to go for A Levels as there's always a lot of shuffling around then.
A few points to take into account...

1. Private fees do go up quite a bit every year. If you are struggling now, it will only get worse (sorry)
   
2. There can be a lot of peer pressure at private - eg DD1 is learning to drive and her friends have already been bought cars by eheir parents (mostly 2nd hand)
   
3. School trips can be pricey - of course they are arranged at both schools, but there might be more of an expectation to go if at private)
   
4. On the plus side, extra curricular activities do tend to get reduced at senior school.
   

Perhaps find the true cost of private before deciding - fee inflation year on year, what organized trips cost (they normally have standard trips for each tear group) uniform costs - do a costing up to GCSEs (5 yrs)
I realise you want to give yr kids the best education possible, but if yr local girls comp is good, great - send DD there! As for DS, afraid I can't answer that. Perhaps wait till DD is settled and is having a great time at State senior before deciding - then she might not mind as much (she hopes...)

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Thanks Frog and bobs for your considered snd thoughtful responses.

It is good to hear that your DD made the transition successfully, Frogs. Makes me feel better about ths situation.

The state IS a very good school and DD already knows a few girls who go there from the activities she does locally and the neighbours DDs go there, who she is friendly with. There is no coed state education available here - well, only one but we are well out of catchment. The only coed option available is private.

The galling thing is the financial situation is likely to improve dramatically in the next 2 years, but we have to deal with the situation as it is now. Would be a disaster if we kept her in private then ran out of cash in a year, as there would be no places at this comp. As you can imagine, it is very oversubscribed, we are lucky we live so close.

Bobs, DD is umlikely to reduce her extracurricular as she is very passionate about singing, drama, dance and I can't see her wanting to give these up. These do add up as she does so many - we spend about £500 a term on these alone.

DS does not do nearly as many activities, and many are at school and do not cost extra, which could be used as one argument to keep him at private - makes it seem less unfair to DD IYSWIM? We could quite comfortably afford just DS's fees and I don't want to move him at the moment as he is in yr4 and there are unlikely to be any state primary places available for him.

Just struggling with the feeling it is unfair on DD to send one state, one private.

[mebaasmum]

Maybe forget whether schools are private or state for a minute and think of it as which schools are best for your children and what is the outcome. Near us there is a very good girls comp and lots of people do state for girls and private for boys on this basis. Has your daughter looked round the comp. What did she think??? +If she went to the comp and it wasnt perfect. would there be an option of moving back to private if your financed changed in a year or two

[FrogPrincess]

maybe you could send dd to the local comp, then move her in year 9 back to her current school if you are more comfortable financially and you feel she would be better off there?

[FrogPrincess]

great minds etc...

[FrogPrincess]

by the way cantdecide..., I don't think that co-ed is a necessity for all children, it's just that in dd's case, we thought it would be best. Some children are very well suited to single sex education at secondary level. It suited dd at junior school but I think it would have backfired had we kept her in a single sex environment for too long.

[bobs]

Perhaps DDs extra curricular costs could be the deciding factor - sounds manipulative but you could say that if she goes private you couldn't afford the extras, but if she goes state you could??? And emphasize the fact that the state is so good - it's great she already knows kids who go there. If it doesn't work you could always move her to the private school - esp if as you say finances will improve.
It is the opposite for me - I could just about afford the fees til last year whan our family company went belly-up so no divi to pay the fees. As the kids were already in privat it was unfair to move them - esp considering how much thy love it there.
Incidentally our local state is pretty good, but you want to do the best, don't you. Btw my husband doesn't agree which is why I am paying the fees - don't know how much credit he will try to take if it turns out well for them tho!!!
My main bugbear with private it that kids expectations are so much higher - depending of course on which friends they make. One daughter has best friends whose parents are loaded, the other has friends who are more grounded...

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Could be an option to move her back in yr9, but would depend if they had places.

The thing is, the private probably is better, facilities etc much better but probably not poles apart re teaching. But it costs a lot. If I was to choose completely ignoring cost it would be the private. But cost has to be a factor as it could be a big stressor. The choice is state and not worry about cash so much, or private and stress about scraping together the fees each term.

The state is very good, but being state it is not as well funded. And the kids I know who go there are lovely. I think DD could probably do as well academically as she is very well motivated but extra curricular probably not as good. Would have to make extra effort to do stuff out of school.

Bobs - re loaded friends, DD has a mix of seriously loaded and those more in our position. AFAIK none of them make a big deal about how much money anyone has, but DD has on occasion pulled the "x has a much bigger house than us and goes on holiday 20 times a year why can't we" moan on me. She gets short shrift from me on that one.

Ohhhhhhh, so confused! Just can't work out in my head what to do for the best....

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Frog, I think in DDs case she is better with single sex as she can do without the distractions!

[FrogPrincess]

you still have time to decide, which is good. It took me time to adjust to the idea of dd leaving her lovely school behind at the end of year 6 as I had always thought she would go there for secondary school too. But eventually I came to grips with it and am truly pleased about the move.

As for extra curricular activities, I always think it's good to do some outside the school environment anyway to have a mix of friends (and for your dd, also to mix with boys?). And think of the money saved to do loads as a family. If both school are not miles apart re education, this could work out well for you all.

But take your time to decide, you have months left. Just make sure your dd knows the local girls comp is a serious possibility and a positive one.

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Frog - yes, DD has been to the open evening for the state and we have talked about it being a possibility. She liked the state but said she would prefer to go to the senior school where she is if possible.

She is being very good about it but I still feel bad.

[FrogPrincess]

perfectly understandable that she would prefer to stay at her school, it's good that she's open minded about a move though. Give yourself time, you'll work it out! Sounds like she'll do well in either school though

[Acanthus]

I think you need to talk to parents of children at the comp if you possibly can. We have just moved (yr7) from state to selective independent and there seems a massive difference in the quality of even an outstanding state school and our current experience of the private sector. Better communication, better individual planning, better organisation. And he's only been there 8 weeks!

[Byblyofyle]

If the local comp is good I would definitely send her there. Teaching is going to be better and that outweighs the advantages of better facilities imo. In my experience weaker teachers gravitate to the private sector.

[GrimmaTheNome]

If the local comp is good I would definitely send her there. Teaching is going to be better and that outweighs the advantages of better facilities imo. In my experience weaker teachers gravitate to the private sector.

I suspect many people have experience to the contrary, and the OP knows the private school already, don't suppose she'd be considering continuing there if the teaching was weak.

As it happens my DD has moved from private to state for secondary - but for different reasons (both excellent schools, nothing to choose between them academically, state school was the one DD preferred). Its awfully nice not having those termly fees. We can do more stuff with her out of school and put some away towards university expenses - not a small consideration nowadays.

[OneMoreMum]

Our DS1 moved from private to state in September and it's going really well, even though he didn't know anyone there.

I think a good state school is often equally as good as a private (no good primaries near us unfortunately) and I really cannot see anything that he's missing out on compared to any of the private schools we also considered (standard day schools, not Eton or anything!).

DS2 will move up next September and has different needs (possibly dyslexic) but am hoping that the same school will also work for him. If I was sure that private would be best for him I wouldn't have any qualms about doing that, you have to do your best in each situation as it comes up.

I'm sure if you were forced to downsize your house that would have a significant effect on your family and protecting yourself against that would be a good plan.

[Bramshott]

Blimey, that's tough. FWIW I think you need to look at the situation as it is NOW, and not worry what you will do about your DS in 2 years time. The fact is that the fees are a struggle, and you have a very good state school nearby which DD is likely to get into. You'd be mad not to apply (maybe you already have?).

[Bramshott]

Also meant to say that I went to a state school and my brother to a private school and I certainly didn't feel resentful. My school suited me, and his school suited him (which his first, state school did not). Our parents made their decision based on our individual needs, not a blanket policy - although we are farther apart in age than your DCs.

[Talkinpeace]

How many children per year in the private school?
How did the equal number of top pupils at the comp do?
State school results are always mangled by the bottom 25%, so compare the equivalents.
At DD's comp last year there were 4 pupils who got 11 A* at GCSE.
And some who did zilch.

Another thing. DD does badminton, rock climbing, table tennis, wind band - after school all free.
The facilities at her comp beat my old GDST school on every score.
The range rover / pony coefficients is pretty high too as part of the catchment is rural!

DH visits lots of schools. Comps get the best teachers. Comps with sixth forms the very best.
Selective independents get teachers who want an easy life.

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Talkin - 120 per year in the private school.

Can't work out at the moment how to compare the results of the two, as private is highly selective, no selection at state, except for being in a very middle class catchment area.

Comp got 77% A* to C in GCSEs this year. Private got about 98% (I think) but you would expect that with a highly selective school.

Both schools have lots of extracurricular, but the advantage of the comp is that it is a short walk away so she would be able to participate more without worrying about the journey home.

I wouldn't agree with the comment about independent teachers, certainly not in DDs school. They teach to a very high level and put a lot of work into it, though they do not have any disruptive elements to contend with. Have heard great things about the teachers at the comp, head is very committed to achieving top results. They also have a sixth form with very ambitious plans for the future.

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Bramshott - have applied to comp (closing date was 31 Oct) now need to make decision before offer day 1st March.

I am glad you did not feel any resentment about your DB going private. I am hoping she wil understand - have talked to her about the fact thet the state schools for boys are not nearly as good.

[Talkinpeace]

77% in a comp is EXCELLENT
That means their top 100 kids or so are at the same level as the private.
Sixth form is a GOOD thing - means 16 year olds do not think they are the kings of the castle. The kids heading on to Russell Group Unis are.

It will be fine.

[mebaasmum]

Just a thought. If your dd is scholarship material I assume the school wont want to loose her. What is the bursary situation. Even if it is not advertised it might be worth a quiet word about your financial situation.

If DD's school is highly selective it would probably only take the top 1/3rd from a state primary. where as the comp will be taking them all and still getting 77% a-c. Does that include maths and English? Other things to look at are % doing MFL GCSE's and triple science.

Even in a middle class area some kids will be from poorer backgrounds. The state school will have a bigger range of special needs

[cantdecidewhattodo]

Meba - we are nowhere near qualifying for a bursary - the qualifying levels have been supplied to us. These are only offered to those who qualify for a scholarship anyway.

We were thinking that we maight be able to negotiate a deferral of part of the fees for a couple of years - just an idea, we haven't spoken to the school yet.

That is my dilemma - we could sell up and move into a flat to pay fees but don't want to!

The 5 or more A* - C incl eng & maths is 68%

You are right about intake, there are also a couple of fairly deprived council estates in the catchment area.