Grammar or comprehensive?

[PrettyCandles]

Selective grammar school with outstanding Ofsteds, 4-form entry, boys.

Comprehensive with outstanding Ofsteds, 7-form entry, mixed.

Haven't yet visited the schools, so don't yet have personal opinions on them.

So what are the benefits/disadvantages of each type of school?

[rainbowinthesky]

Ds could have got into a grammar easily but on principle we opted for a comp with fantastic reputation. Huge mistake.

[rainbowinthesky]

Meant to add more. It's reputation has seriously slid the last few years with lots of behaviour problems, very little homework, nothing gets better with complaints whereas grammars stayed consistently good.

[PrettyCandles]

Why?

[MollieO]

Depends on how academic your dc is. Grammar is extremely hard work and would be a pretty unpleasant experience if your dc would struggle academically.

[MollieO]

My friend's 6 yr old has more homework from his school (state primary) than another friend's 12 yr old at the local comp.

[rainbowinthesky]

Yes, dd (6) gets more homework than ds (14).

[PrettyCandles]

Cross-posted. Though still relevant - what do you think has caused the deterioration?

[Xenia]

It's good to look at 20 year pictures. Any school might do well one year but for 20 years or even 100 in some cases if a school has always done well that tends to endure whereas flash in the pan new head effect can mean one school is okay one year but not the next.

[sandripples]

Yes I agree with Xenia on the longer term reputation of the school.

But so much depends on your individual child - their outlook, personality, academic level, motivation to work, etc etc and your own views on single sex education. I went to a girls' grammar but am pleased my two DCs have been to a mixed sex comp. school and have done very well academically and had great extra-curricular options too - really good. The school has an excellent reputation and outstanding Ofsted report and has had for at least 10 years.

[vespasian]

You have to make a judgement about each school on its own merits. I have a very clever dd and had always assumed I would send her to the grammar. Having looked into it I would rather she went to the comprehensive if she could get into the outstanding one.

Unfortunately we live in the catchment of a rather dire comp

[mattellie]

OP, I think a key question is what sort of environment would best suit your DS?

I believe that received wisdom (and research) show that boys generally do better in a mixed school and girls at an all-girls school, but we?ve actually done it the other way round because we felt that suited their individual interests and personalities

[Ladder]

Depends entirely on what your ds can cope with. If he is naturally 'able' and would pass the 11+ without being tutored to death just to get through then I would opt for the grammar school any day.

If, on the other hand, he has been tutored purely to pass the 11+ as a great many are, then he may well struggle throughout.

Unfortunately, passing the 11+ is just the beginnning and he will need to work quickly and consistently at a high standard throughout the secondary school, something a great deal of parents do not realise.

It is about choosing the 'best' school within a particular childs ability.

[PrettyCandles]

I've gone to open evenings at both schools now. The strongest impression I had was that the grammar school, its ethos, and the quality of its education are comparable to the private school that I went to. The comp, OTOH, was bewilderingly alien to me, yet there were some aspects of it that I found fabulous.

There were good aspects and uncertainties about both schools, neither of them flagged up serious concerns nor felt wrong for ds. I wonder whether some of my concerns regarding the grammar are really about to my own unhappiness at school.

Ds is bright enough to have a good chance of passing the 11+. He is fiercely competitive at intellectual stuff, but useless at most sport - enjoys himself at first but is soon left behind. He is also emotionally immature and somewhat insensitive. Which makes me wonder whether he'd more comfortable in an all-boys environment, where this is perhaps more normal, or whether I should keep him in a mixed environment where he would be challenged and hopefully learn new emotional behaviour.

TBH I'm not sure whether he is emotionally immature and will catch up when he's ready, or whether this, together with his slight obsessiveness, is an indication of something else.

[RustyBear]

Hi PrettyCandles, I think you know who I am!

I think I can guess the schools you are talking about - DS went to the grammar, but it was over ten years ago - milliways on here has a DS still there, if you want more up to date info you could pm her. Tbh, your DS reminds me quite a lot of mine at that age, and even more of his best friend who also went to the place Milliways and I refer to as 'Hogwarts' They both loved it there and did very well, both academically- DS went to Warwick, his best friend to Oxford - and socially with a great bunch of like- minded friends

If the comp is the one next door, eleven years ago it wasn't very highly regarded, but I still preferred it to the alternative - like you there was just something I liked about its atmosphere. I put it as my first choice on the form (in those days the grammar school application was separate, I'm not sure it still is) but I still don't know if I would have got in, as I lived in the west side of town - this is something to consider if you're not in catchment as the comp will obviously be very popular since OFSTED.

The comp has been steadily improving since those days but has only been rated 'outstanding' recently, so may well still be on the up, rather than about to decline. One thing to think about is how much of the improvement is due to the head and how much longer he will be there- he was there when DS first went to the infant school, so at least 17 years ago.

If you want to ask me more about my impressions of 'Hogwarts' I am usually helping in the office first thing most mornings....

[RustyBear]

Sorry, 'don't know if I would have got in' should obviously have been 'if he would have got in'

[SKYTVADDICT]

I am having the same dilema with my DD2. DD1 is already at the Girls Grammar. Anyway as she has now taken the 11+ we are just awaiting the results.

Both school are equally good and I think she would do well at both. Even if she passes her 11+ (especially if only by a couple of marks as she is a June birthday and will have had marks added), we may choose the comp. I would rather she was really good at the comp than struggled at the grammar as she is nowhere near as academic as her sister.

Aaargh! Secondary schools!

[seeker]

Just to add another element to the mix - (sorry!) - I do think it's a bit of a myth about struggling at a grammar school. My dd scraped in and we were very worried about this, but she has found it much easier to focus and work hard in a school where focussing and working hard is the norm. The alternative, a high school (not a comprehensive because you can't have a comprehensive school in a grammar school area) is also a good school, but it's undeniable that you have to be more of a self starter to do well there. Loads do, obviously, but it's harder.

[piscesmoon]

It all depends on which suits your DC. Will he get a place? Will he cope? Is he suited to a highly academic education with stiff competition? If you can answer 'yes' to all those then go for it-if in doubt then don't put him through it.

[Doobydoo]

Actually recent research shows that boys do better at boys schools.My ds1 has just started a Grammar school he was born 29th August so is about as Summer born as you can get!He is quite small for his age and has found leaving the cosy environment of Home ed and then a small primary school a shock! But I think he would have felt like that whatever school he had gone to.We opted for the out of Catchment Grammar based on his results and his personality etc.They have lots of homework and have to be responsible for themselves[which is a challenge]but I think will be great in the not too distant future.oNLY YOU KNOW YOUR CHILD,WHICH WOULD THEY PREFER/
gOOD LUCK WITH YOUR CHOICE.iT IS A MINEFIELD.

[Doobydoo]

Eeek sorry re typos

[RustyBear]

Nottirednow - assuming the grammar is the one I'm thinking of, it's in a neighbouring borough and takes boys from a very wide area, so the comp would only 'lose' half a dozen boys at most in any particular year - in DS's year there were only two from his junior school and neither would have gone to that comprehensive.

The comprehensive does stream from fairly early in the first term, I believe. As for the sixth form, the schools in the area started a cooperative scheme where pupils could take subjects at different schools so as to take advantage of the various specialisms, which allowed a wider range of subjects to be offered overall. I'm not sure if this is still going - it was three years ago when my friends DD was in the sixth form.