BTEC/GCSE, particularly science

[alison60]

I am having a lot of trouble getting my kids' teachers to give me a clear idea of whether GCSE or BTEC are better. I've had this with the Art teacher, the PE teacher, and most importantly, with the Science teacher, with whom I had the following conversation:

Teacher: DD(Year 10) needs to work harder. If she gets a C, she will do GCSE next year, if she gets a D she will have to do BTEC.
Me: What is the difference?
Teacher: The GCSE is worth 2 GCSEs. The BTEC is worth 2 GCSEs, but if she does BTEC she can't do science A level.
Me: There is no way she wants to do science A level, so presumably she could do the BTEC.
Teacher: No! She has to do GCSE! It's really important!

I am confused. Any advice?

[mummytime]

From what the teacher has said, your daughter could get at least a C at GCSE if she works a bit now.
If she continues to be lazy then she will be put in the BTEC groups, and will have ruled out doing the GCSE, and have narrowed her options later to do A'level.

Not having a Science GCSE could limit her future in all kinds of ways. I'm not sure if BTEC is even acceptable if you want to be a primary teachers for example.

The teacher is as blatantly as she is allowed, telling you to get your daughter to work, as she could do better with GCSEs.

[mumeeee]

Universities do accept BTECHs now. They are an alternative qualifications.

[EvilTwins]

The focus is different. BTECs are more vocational. I teach BTEC Performing Arts, and it's vastly different to GCSE Drama - everything has a context in the "real world" (as far as it can for Performing Arts...) and there is greater emphasis on PLTS skills, which is a good thing, IMO. My Yr 10 BTEC class has some students in it who wouldn't have much of a chance to achieve a C or above at GCSE but are likely to get a Pass grade for the BTEC course. These students are not likely to want to go to university, and therefore a P grade for BTEC will advantage them far more than a D or an E at GCSE. However, I also have some students who are equally as capable no matter what the course - they are likely to get a Distinction, which, certainly at Level 2 (ie Yr 11) stage is going to do them good, as it will open doors for further study at Level 3 (ie sixth form)

[EvilTwins]

"will advantage them" - sorry - crap sentence. Head is melting after long day at work.

[MmeBlueberry]

In the absolute, the GCSE is better.

If your DD is able to get a C, she should go for GCSE. No question.

[tenacious]

I am guessing here - do GCSE's carry more UCAS points, and BTEC's fewer?

If that is the case, then is the teacher possibly wanting your DD to do the GCSE purely for the school's results table, not what is best for her?

May be a case of "Points make Prizes" to the teacher? regardless of what is best for the pupil?

I think it's a case of if the BTEC suits her abilities better, and if she does not want to do a science A level anyway, then I'd go with a stress free and good result at BTEC rather than straining over a GCSE.

It's also down to how much effort DD is prepared to put in.

All the best.

[TheFallenMadonna]

A GCSE is an academic qulaification. A BTEC is a vocational qualification. A C grade at GCSE is more academic than a BTEC Pass (equivalent to Cs). If your DD wants an academic-looking CV she needs to get the GCSE, irrespective of whether she wants to study it A level. However, a D or E grade GCSE isn't "better" than a BTEC. So she needs to get a C if that is her target.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Nope - the school would be pushing any student that could potentially drop below a C to do BTEC if they were purely playing the numbers game. We do actually tend to want our students to do the course most appropriate to them on the whole.

[EvilTwins]

tanacious - there's no difference, in the way you're talking. UCAS points only come into play at the next level anyway.

Completely agree with TheFallenMadonna

[tenacious]

I don't claim to be an authority on this topic, EvilTwins. Just my humble thoughts. PS it's tenacious, not tanacious. Thanks.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I am an authority on this topic

It's not about what's best forthe school atthe expense of your daughter in this case. The reverse in fact.

[tenacious]

Obviously. That was the whole point of my post.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Eh?

I mean, in this case, the school appear to be acting in the best interest of the OP's daughter, rather than going for the "easy C" of a BTEC.

[mumeeee]

GCSE's don't cary any UCAS points and neither do Level one ( GCSE Level) carry any ucas points. As and A levels give Ucas points and BTech get the same nunber of points. |DD2 got Double Distinction in her Performing arts/Musucal theatre BTECH, They were the equivelent to 2 A's and they had the same nunber of points as an A at A level

[TheFallenMadonna]

You can do level 2 or level 3 BTECs. The OP is talking about the level 2 BTEC. GCSEs are also level 2. No UCAS points. Level 3 BTECs carry UCAS points, as do A levels (also level 3 courses).

[notagrannyyet]

At my DS school everyone does BTEC level 2 ICT.....GCSE isn't an option.

They also offer BTECs in PE and Music alongside GCSEs. I assume GCSE is 'harder'.

I've never heard of BTEC in science.

[alison60]

Thanks for all the input here - very useful. It's all become clearer now, as we are now looking at 6th Form colleges. From the point of view of doing A levels, colleges treat a BTEC First Diploma like this as worth 1 GCSE when adding up all your qualifications. However, you can't use it as an entry to an A level in the same subject, and you mustn't have too many BTECs as they don't prove that you can do exams - you need a certain number of GCSEs. So overall, BTEC First Diploma = slightly less than a GCSE. However, the school is still persisting in telling me it is worth 4 GCSEs! Presumably what this means is that it is worth 4 GCSEs on their league table results.

[mummytime]

The "official" ranking has BTEC worth 4 GCSEs, and OCR National worth 2 I think.

However as you have discovered sixth form colleges don't treat them like that. I don't know that employers even understand them. If Additional Science GCSE is going to be too hard for your child to get a C, then it may be better for them to do one of the more vocational courses. I have heard students in year 11 struggling to get their Additional Science GCSE saying they wish they had done the OCR course. But these students are not going to study sciences at A'level.

Although some OCR students go on to study Applied Science A'level and then Applied Science degrees. It really depends on the student.

[alison60]

I think the sixth forms have got it right though. You've got a qualification that takes as long as a GCSE and is at a slightly lower level. It makes sense to say it is equal to a GCSE. It doesn't make sense to say it is equal to 4 GCSEs and is simply misleading - to parents choosing a school for instance - to say that it is.

[TheFallenMadonna]

It is the official equivalence. You have to be explicit about which options are opened and which options are lost by taking each qualification you offer, which we certainly try to do. You can't oversimplify it into a one line "BTEC is worth X GCSEs", because there is more to it than that.