Mexican teacher for Spanish

[mrsrhodgilbert]

Hello. DD2 has just started yr 9 and is in the top Spanish class. They have a new (Mexican) teacher to the school who has a very different way of pronouncing words to their old (English) Spanish teacher. For example, she would say paella should be pronounced paejja.Other words where l's are silent are being spoken with a j. I have no idea if this is correct, an accent issue or plain wrong. Reluctant to create trouble so early but apparently today the class was in uproar as she told them they had all been taught incorrectly. Can anyone offer advice please?

[Chaotica]

Who is pronouncing 'll' as 'jj'? The Mexican teacher or the English one?

[mrsrhodgilbert]

The mexican one.

[Chaotica]

(And, are you sure it isn't just a hard silent 'll' which sounds like 'j' to the kids?)

FWIW I scored higher in our school spanish exam than the bilingual children because they had Venuzuelan accents. I still think this wasn't fair, and that the school should have told them to ham up the Castillian spanish in the exam. Exam boards are pretty rigid so you should get this sorted out (as nicely as possible, if the new teacher is at fault).

[mrsrhodgilbert]

Hi, I can't be sure as I have never been taught Spanish and this is only her second year of learning. I just know exactly what she told me, as described and that all the class were trying to say that they had been taught differently.She described it as a very hard 'j'. The Mexican teacher apparently said that the English never speak Spanish properly but surely there could be a difference between the Mexican and Spanish way of speaking.

[Chaotica]

Don't really know how to advise you here - is there a head of modern languages you could quietly mention it to. There is a big difference in accents in Spanish (as in English) and although the teacher is probably right that the English get it wrong, I don't know how different the spanish (Castillian) spanish is.

I do know that we were taught 'y' (by a bilingual teacher), but that the 'y' almost should sound like you've swallowed it and spat it back out (said right at the back of the mouth) which sounds rather like a 'j' too. Can your DD get hold of some Spanish recordings/dvds/internet stuff (?) and listen for herself?

Try the bilingual section on here, perhaps?

[MummyDoIt]

There is quite a difference between a Mexican accent and the traditional Castillian one normally taught in schools here. Much as there is a difference between English English and American English. The ll sound is one. I'd say it's a soft 'j', somewhere between 'j' and 'y'. Also, with Castillian you lisp 'z' and some 'c' sounds so it sounds like 'th' whereas in Mexico you pronounce them a 's'.

If the teacher is Mexican, she would probably find it hard to change her own accent just as we would find it hard to start speaking with an American accent. However, I think she's wrong to tell them they're pronouncing things incorrectly. It's just different. The teacher does need to be aware, though, that examiners will be expecting Castillian and children may (I'm guessing) be marked down if they use other accents.

You may also find that she uses different words for things (like English 'tap' and American 'faucet').

For what it's worth, Mexicans are normally much, much easier to understand than Spaniards!

[mrsrhodgilbert]

Thank you. I will speak to the head of depertment, thats not a problem for me. I will probably let her have a couple more lessons and then act if things are not improving. Without wishing to sound at all unkind my daughter is a good mimic and her impression of the teacher speaking English to the class was so strongly accented that I am concerned about how they are all going to sound.

[Bonsoir]

Yes, in large swathes of Latin America the "ll" is pronounced "j". There is nothing wrong with this. Your daughter is very, very lucky indeed to have a native-speaker to teach her Spanish!

[mrsrhodgilbert]

I realise she is lucky to have a native Spanish speaker, but this is only their second year and they are being told that what they have learnt so far is wrong. Thats a bit confusing when you're only 13 and if she continues to take it in year 10 and 11 with a different teacher it could all change again. I think the school need to get a consistent policy in place that the exam board will approve of. I don't suppose the school even considered this potential issue when she was employed.

[Bonsoir]

What do you want - for your DD to pass a low-level British exam, or for her to learn to speak Spanish?

[PaulineCampbellJones]

Agree about the native speaking - I was taught by a teacher from Belfast. Ended up with an accent which was neither Castilian or Latin American! Then I went to live in Andalucia which made me realise I knew no proper Spanish!
Would check with regards to the oral exam but it may also make a difference to words. Money is dinero in Spain and plata in a lot of Latin America for example.

[MummyDoIt]

You can't win whatever accent you have. I went out to Mexico with a pure Castillian accent and got laughed at for lisping the 'c' and 'z'. Acquired a lovely Mexican accent during my time there then was told by my Madrid-born boss that I sounded like a peasant! You just can't win!

[cory]

They are only lucky to have a native teacher if the native teacher is a good teacher. And a good teacher should be able to explain to them what differences in pronunciation between different Spanish speaking countries and to know what will be required for the exam. If the teacher is really correcting a Castilian pronunciation as being too "English", then he just sounds like an uneducated teacher.

[mrsrhodgilbert]

If she is going to choose Spanish for GCSE then
it would be reasonable to expect her to have a fighting chance of passing it...why would I set her up to fail? I fully realise that GCSE language courses do not teach you to understand that language very well, but if she wants to pursue it further she will need a GCSE pass.

DD1 has just done GCSE French and was taught for 2 years during secondary school by a Frenchman. He was very charming and entertained them with tales of his life in France and childhood, but he taught them very little French and was finally removed. She now has a very limited knowledge of French and does not feel she could manage very well alone in France. So her native speaker was little help.

At this level they are learning the basics which surely need to be consistent and fit in with what the exam board expect.

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Does the exam insist on a specific accent? mommyDoIt summarizes the differences quite well, but would be odd if the exam board would mark down not having a specific accent?

[lovely74]

You need to speak to the Head of Languages about how much the accent will affect her exam mark, if at all (Castilian spanish and Latin American spanish are neither correct nor incorrect, just diffent). If you go to Spain you'll find that they don't lisp everywhere either. Accents exist in every language obviously.
Like a poster before me I'd just say that she is lucky to have a native spanish speaker as her teacher, and Mexican Spanish IS a lot easier to grasp than Castilian spanish.

[mrsrhodgilbert]

I'm sure a specific accent isn't expected but I don't know if pronouncing words very differently to how they have been taught so far is an accent issue or something more fundamental. If different teachers in the school are insisting on different ways of saying the basics, it will get confusing from year to year surely.

[Tinuviel]

She's not a good teacher if she's criticising their former teacher (which she obviously is) - she's unprofessional!

The exam boards do expect Castilian Spanish, although I don't know how far they would mark you down for using any other. Personally I don't take any chances and stick only to Castilian with my classes and then have to drop my 'lisp' when I visit my dad in Andalucía!

I would definitely take it up with the HOD.

[foxytocin]

The Boards do not 'expect' a Castilian accent. They expect fluency and that comes in many sounds. That is like saying a learner of English would be marked down for American pronunciations. I don't believe any board is that daft.

However the teacher is not doing herself or the students any favours by not conforming to how they have already been taught to pronounce certain phonemes.

Child learners especially need consistency at this stage. She can try out her accents on them at A Level.

[qumquat]

If the exam boards do expect castillian spanish then that is shocking. However I agree consistency is an issue at such an early stage of learning the language so I would speak to the HOD about this.
It shouldn't be too difficult for the teacher to explain the differences between her accent and a castillian one and certainly shouldn't be saying one is wrong and another right.

[weegiemum]

In Scotland, they don't mind what your pronounciation is, as long as it is consistent. So either Latin American or Castillian, but not a mix of both!

[penguin73]

Different accents/dialects, just as in English we say things totally different in different parts of the country. Both are correct and acceptable at GCSE (although a little confusing for the pupils I know!)

[foxytocin]

In that scenario weegiemum, I'd be marked down in an English speaking test having a mixed up English, American, West Indian one.

[Lemonsole]

I'm a Spanish teacher, (and one whose Spanish is more Mexican than Castillian), and to say that she would be penalised by an exam board is a load of -err- cojones.

Students can get used to different accents and pronunciation in the same way that they do for their mother tongue.

IME a change of teacher and of accent has no impact on their progress - provided the teacher highlights the differences and does not present them as being "wrong". Pupils are usually fascinated by how the language varies in the same way as our language shifts across the Atlantic. It's really not a big deal.

Provided the teacher is qualified and competent, your DD is way ahead of the average poor British kid taught by a Brit with a ropey 2:2 and no feel for the grammar of his/her own language or the one that they are supposed to be teaching.