With NS saying that Brexit would force indyref2 are SNP faithful confused on what to vote?

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2016-scotland-36124382

If they vote to stay in the EU (the party line) and the stats are driven down and show that had Scotland voted on their own they would have wanted to stay then that supports the call for indyref2 if Brexit wins, but if they vote to leave there is more chance of Brexit winning and therefore an excuse to call for indyref2 (if figures show that Scotland would have voted to stay).

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

As someone said on the Gary thread you can always trust Sturgeon to do the best for herself and the SNP.

Has Sturgeon actually done any campaigning for staying in the EU? She is so obviously hoping it will be a leave win.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

As someone said on the Gary thread you can always trust Sturgeon to do the best for herself and the SNP.

That would be me. :)

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

According to this SNP voters will be more likely to vote no. Presumably due to the misguided notion this will hasten another independence referendum which they will win and Scotland will then be welcomed into the EU.

Scotland Stronger in Europe pledges to be 'Project Cheer', not 'Project Fear'

gu.com/p/4gt62?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardThe

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

But if enough vote No/Leave then that risks Scotland being a "No" overall so that gives them no reason to call for one either. What a tangled we we weave and all that jazz.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

They're fluctuating all over the place at the moment but some of the poll results have been so close that I worked out with one of them (can't remember which) that the discrepancy they were showing between Scotland and rUK was such that it could be Scotland keeping us in the EU which would be rather ironic given the whole "Scottish votes don't count" thing!

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

I think it's too close to call at the moment and they are saying that the Brexit voters tend to be older and if it's a sunny day the stay campaign might not get the young "stay" voters in enough numbers so it could sway the vote quite a lot.

Who knows, I don't know what I want to vote yet - I'd like to do whatever would fuck up the SNP plans the best but not sure what that is so I'll just have to read the doom mongers on both sides and choose the least worst option and hope that fucks up the SNP anyway.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Oh I agree it's too close to call, I just meant that the way one set of numbers looked showed that as a possibility which somewhat amused me.

The whole Brexit leading to Indyref 2 thing is certainly giving it an extra dimension up here I think. I'm not sure I get the logic tbh as (AFAIK) it's not as if we'd be able to take over the UK membership in the event of Brexit so we'd be right back where we were at Indyref - potentially negotiating for EU membership as a new entrant country with all the requirements that brings. I think if I had to choose one union to be a part of I'd rather have the UK, especially in a situation where EU membership would probably mean joining the Euro - unless it collapses first of course!

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

Yes I got that, just forgot to comment on it first :)

I agree totally with what you've said there Statistically

It's presented as a forgone conclusion that Scotland will get in, massive debts and all. I can't see an independent Scotland in the current economic climate being an attractive prospect.

I still can't get my head around campaigning to not be ruled by Westminster whilst simultaneously (apparently) wanting to be ruled by Brussels, no wonder they are confused!

Saw a post on FB the other day talking about all the stuff that SNP had done - free school meals etc but it failed to point out that it was all courtesy of the Barnett formula - you can bend and switch it any way you like but at the end of the day Scotland spends more than it raises - who is making up the slack after independence?

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

If any SNP supporter thinks it will be a simple matter to get an independent Scotland into the EU they are seriously deluded.

I will be voting to stay in the EU. If Brexit wins I will still vote no to independence from rUK.

[StKildasNun]

Will anyone vote for independence now the oil industry is in the doldrums? I mean where are the taxes to come from to run the services? Whisky?

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

Even when the oil industry wasn't in the doldrums the figures still didn't stack up and yet people voted for independence.

We're all going to be fine because it will come from Nicola's magic money tree.

People will still vote for it as it's sold as an ideology and all things are possible. It's actually in the SNPs best interests to make people feel that they are hard done by even when it is already within their power to make things better. Keep people disgruntled, blame it on Westminster and bingo, a ready made voting force.

All things are possible but people will have to pay more to get them. The voters just think it won't be them, it'll be those rich folk. forgetting of course that the rich folk are the ones more able to just up sticks and move saying sack this shit and the poor at the bottom are generally less able to do that.

Yes as a nation, individually we may contribute more in taxes per head than average, however we also spend above our means and whilst we are still doing that then the books just wont balance irrespective of the oil situation. All that has done is make it worse.

people keep comparing us to Denmark but we aren't Denmark, we have vast areas that require services provided where there is not the density of population to justify it, but you cant just decide it's too dear to provide a health care system or Refuse system in the North West Highlands or islands. People in general here want more but aren't prepared to pay for it either.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of hardworking, bright people in Scotland contributing well to the Scottish economy but we also have a lot of people to carry who all have an expectation that under independence "things" will be better. I'm not denying there are people here living on the breadline, but for the majority in this country life isn't actually too bad is it? And if all those for whom life isn't actually too bad contributed a bit more (using the powers that already exist) then life for those on the bread line could be "not too bad" either.

[morningtoncrescent62]

I've got the opposite dilemma. I'm a no voter, and I want out of Europe. Should I vote stay so that we don't have another indyref?

[MorrisZapp]

My head is spinning, exorcist style. I want to remain in EU, but I want to piss the SNP off.

I'm tempted to vote leave, so I can even things up a bit, but I won't if it's truly marginal.

How marginal is it? What do the current polls say?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I'd much rather stay in the EU. So will be voting to stay in - leaving would be a bit if a disaster.

If Scotland faces being dragged out on the back of English votes ( ie overall out vote, but decisive in in Scotland) then I think there should be another referendum.

If forced to choose between EU or UK, I choose EU.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

My head is spinning, exorcist style. I want to remain in EU, but I want to piss the SNP off.

Hence the thread Morris I was trying to suss out what the SNP faithful have been told were thinking of doing so as to better inform my own choice

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

It's actually in the SNPs best interests to make people feel that they are hard done by even when it is already within their power to make things better. Keep people disgruntled, blame it on Westminster and bingo, a ready made voting force

Spot on.

If forced to choose between EU or UK, I choose EU that isn't the choice.

I want to annoy the SNP so if any of them ask me I'm for the moment a Tory voting pro EU voter.

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

I've had them at the door twice in the last month or so and just said I'm not interested and they haven't made any attempt to convince me - clearly I'm a lost cause and my car will be marked come the revolution.

I've had no-one else at the door but the amount of mail addressed to DH from the Tories is astounding :o

..and 14 year old DS2 is a card carrying labour party member. I don't think they quite know what to categorise our house as...

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I actually am a Labour party member ! (I'll probably actually vote Labour on first part and Tory on the second)

[Roonerspism]

Oh this is fascinating.

I'm actually in favour of Brexit I guess I assumed no sane person would think that independent Scotland was viable so I would take the risk. I mean - surely SNP voters are now thinking "thank gawd that didn't happen"

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

surely SNP voters are now thinking

One would hope so but some won't change the habits of a lifetime. :)

There are people who think that they are actually voting for the Scottish Parliament and who they want to run Scotland and voting for the SNP which is absolutely their right to do so. But they think that that has nothing to do with wanting an independant Scotland. NS and the SNP will view any vote in any election for them as a call to arms for inyref2 make no mistake. I know the two things should not be connected but they will be made to be. Buyer beware and all that.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Agree with OneMagnum Sturgeon will turn a vote for Holyrood MSPs into a vote for independence

[OneMagnumisneverenough]

I'm going to have to leave the country forever for a while when the results come in as I just can't bear to look at SmuggyMcSmugface and the rest when the results come in and hear about how much of a carte blanche they now have to do what the fuck they want.

It's like the emperors new clothes - surely other people must be able to see that they are in fact self-serving, power crazed, single-minded twat faces?

[StKildasNun]

I noticed Smuggy saying something along the lines of 'I can't believe I'm first minister' "the responsibility is over aweing' on Gary the Tank commander's show (that's not the exact words but I dont' have time to go back and listen) and thought -She's heard the comments about her being too full of herself and is trying to regain ground!
Cynical - moi??

[Tomorrowisanewday]

I just want to wake up and this week's elections and the EU vote be over (but obviously having voted in that prolonged sleep!), and Ms Sturgeon not having gained more powers than she's already getting.

I couldn't go through another referendum. I come from a very working class background, but have worked to a point where I have a business and employ people. The last referendum was bad enough and I think the country is only just recovering. We need business confidence to move forward, looking at recent output and employment figures, a second recession isn't unfeasible. And another referendum (based on the effect of the last one) would only stall recovery again.

And I cant put up with the whole Project Fear again. I am a reasonably intelligent person, I didn't vote no because I was frightened. I voted no because I read the facts, including the SNP white paper, and made a reasoned decision based on that.