A short 4 day holiday has not been authorised!!

(185 Posts)

My daughter has 98% attendence in her junior school and i have sent in a holiday form asking for her to have 4 days of for a short break with family and i explained it had already been paid for and they will not authorise it as the target for SCHOOL attendence is not within goverment guidlines of 95%! Well in was not happy with this dicision as 1:shes never had a holiday 2:her other 2% abcensses were coz she was ill and authorised and 3: its not my problem about the whole school goverment snitzel bla bla

What does everyone think to this considering shes got 98% attendence ? The reason im annoyed is that A ive already paid and B i dont wanna b fined for 4 rare days outta school

countydurhamlass Wed 14-Mar-12 18:00:30

the government were/are planning on getting rid of the school's discretion and making it a case of under no circumstances but i am not sure if has been implemented or not.

ragged Wed 14-Mar-12 18:01:24

Do you know that they will fine? I reckon most schools wouldn't bother.

Im hoping they wont fine me but i know a friend of a friend that got charged £50 for her son having 2 days off! I cant really afford to throw money away and i dont think its fair if i do get fined

seeker Wed 14-Mar-12 19:18:55

So why didn't you get permission beforeyou booked?

Hulababy Wed 14-Mar-12 19:20:04

Re your points:

(A) You should request the time off before booking and paying
(B) If that is school policy, then that's the policy I am afraid.

However, I don't think 4 days out will affect her overall schooling or education ime.

But you will just have to take the risk and pay the fine it is comes.

BadRoly Wed 14-Mar-12 19:20:42

It seems harsh of the school but that's the risk you take if you book holiday in term time. It's no secret that the government and therefore schools are clamping down on attendance.

BIWI Wed 14-Mar-12 19:22:29

You should have asked the school first! You don't have a right to go on holiday, and certainly not during term time.

bigbadbarry Wed 14-Mar-12 19:22:49

We get no term-time holidays authorised as a blanket policy. This is not unusual.

LeeCoakley Wed 14-Mar-12 19:27:59

The schools where my children are only authorise absence for religious observances, holidays abroad when visiting for family purposes, armed services related or bereavement or terminal illness related. Anything else is unauthorised.

ByTheWay1 Wed 14-Mar-12 19:30:08

You really should have applied for authorisation before booking the break if it matters that much to you.

ContinentalKat Wed 14-Mar-12 19:38:40

Maybe a bit obvious now, but kids do get sick...?

LeeCoakley Wed 14-Mar-12 19:40:49

It's keeping it a secret though.... grin

We do have a laugh at school when the 'ill' children come back to school with a tan and telling us how to say 'hello' in Spanish!

BIWI Wed 14-Mar-12 19:41:13

Why don't you think it's fair if you get fined? Them's the rules!

yousankmybattleship Wed 14-Mar-12 19:41:52

You should have asked persmission before booking. The school have every right to say no. Think how it would affect a class if every week there were children off on a few days break. The poor teachers would spend all their time playing catch up. School is not actually optional you know.

tuffinmop Wed 14-Mar-12 19:50:49

Education and a rounded good upbringing is more than just school. Children need the opportunity to have family time too and for 4 days I think the school is being pedantic. Its all linked to the new ofsted criteria. I say this as a teacher myself.These new strict guidelines are here to target problem families who have no respect for the school system. In future either book in advance (ideal) or call in sick. Memories as a family are important too.

seeker Wed 14-Mar-12 19:54:43

Oh, yes. 4 days in butlins is sooooooo much more educational than 4 days at school. And calling in sick is such a good message to send the child. Don't forget to coach her on what her symptoms were for when she gets back. And to make sure she doesn't give anything away the week before by telling her friend about it or anything like that. Oh, and make sure she doesn't bring back any tell tale presents for hr friends or her teacher, or send any postcards.....

MargueritaaPracatan Wed 14-Mar-12 19:58:20

Good Lord, four days and they're digging their heels in? That's a bit harsh.

40notTrendy Wed 14-Mar-12 19:59:09

It's a difficult one. I do understand it's only 4 days and it's junior school, and I'm assuming it's not during an important week. However, if DH ran out of holiday entitlement at work, I think his boss would be entitled to be a bit hmm if presented with the same argument you are using. And say no way! I think it's good to encourage punctuality and attendance. But I think if it were me, I wouldn't have put a form in, I'd just have rung to say she was ill!

The reason why i got permission afterwards is because i didnt expect there to be a problem as she has 98% attendance. I never said i had a right to go on holiday but it is only 4 days and its way expensive to go in half term as im going cheap with the Sun vouchers. I think the school is going over the top as my other children were authorised by their school which is the infants joined on! 4 days thats all it is, they will be seeing family and the zoo and sealife centre so very educational also. Iv wrote the head a letter & if still not accepted i will b taking her off ill

bigbadbarry Wed 14-Mar-12 20:05:03

You don't have to take her off sick, they know where you are going. It will just be marked as unauthorised absence.

Oh and they scored v low with ofsted recently so maybe thats the reason! Well they have been taking my childs playtime away along with the rest of the class because 15 pupils were naughty without MY permission on numerous occasions ! Which makes me v annoyed as she and the rest of the pupils were being good so im not happy with the school in general at the momentangry

BackforGood Wed 14-Mar-12 20:10:01

I can't see why you are surprised.
Your children are supposed to attend school for 190 days a year, unless they are too ill to be in school. Full stop. You've chosen to not support this rule (irrelevant if we think it matters or not to miss 4 days), so there is a possibility (unlikely IME) that you will be fined. You certainly aren't going to get a Head Teacher to say "Of course that's OK, we made the rule for everyone else except your family" - why would they ?
The HTs have a little discretion if there is some valid reason why a pupil would need an exceptional time off in term time. The key word there being 'exceptional'. That isn't the same as "fancied a cheap holiday".

seeker Wed 14-Mar-12 20:10:09

Oh well, good luck when your child copies your attitude to education!

Oh and its ok for them to slap on a teacher training day on the last day of term, makes me so mad

yousankmybattleship Wed 14-Mar-12 20:12:39

Good point, so much better for your children to have untrained staff.

seeker Wed 14-Mar-12 20:13:05

Perish the thought that teacher might wqnt to do any training!

kitbit Wed 14-Mar-12 20:13:11

It is not your right to take your children in term time.
It's called term time because it is, in fact, term time.
You should have asked first.
Better still, go on holiday in the holidays, because they are, in fact, holidays.

QED Wed 14-Mar-12 20:15:45

You seem to have quite a strong sense of self entitlement.

You should ask for the holiday to be authorised before booking it. And schools don't have to authorise any holiday.

MargueritaaPracatan Wed 14-Mar-12 20:16:17

Both of my ds's HTs have authorised a term time holibob. I booked it before we knew because I was sure we'd be approved so I feel your pain pumpkinsweetie - I'm not paying double the price for the half term week. So sue me.

QED Wed 14-Mar-12 20:17:05

Schools have a set number of teacher training days each year. Why do you have an issue of one being at the end of term?

40notTrendy Wed 14-Mar-12 20:18:46

It seems you have a few issues with the school! Perhaps the way you feel about things in general is making you feel more angry than needs be?

Its FOUR days and i never ever let her have time of for any other reason than being sick. So no i dont have an attitude about her education i care very much for her education thats why its only a four day holiday. Its not at an important time its straight after the easter holiday. And we are going to see FAMILY there too which was what i put on the form-if thats not important then what is? Im all for teacher training days but not when they suddenly crop up with hardly no warning! My family have never had a holiday we are on minium wage and even with vouchers i we have been saving hard for spending money and all the other bits that come with it. We work hard all year so yes we should get to have a holiday once in a while and my children deserve a break

seeker Wed 14-Mar-12 20:26:15

"not an important time straight after the Easter holidays" hmm

landofsoapandglory Wed 14-Mar-12 20:29:42

I think the HT is being pedantic about this too. 4 days will not hurt at all. I can completely understand why you are fed up about this OP.

My Yr10 is being taken out of school the last week of the Summer term so we can have a holiday. We could only go that week incase DH (military) got called for the security for the Olympics. I checked the website for the 6th form for term dates (I was paying for something for DS1) and booked the holiday. It was only after I got a letter from the school abou something for DS2 in the week we are away that I twigged that the Yr12s break up earlier than the rest of school!

I am not overly bothered DS2 won't be at school TBH. Most of the resedentials are that week, he is doing really well at school and I am pretty sure he will be mostly watching films if he were to be at school.

Voidka Wed 14-Mar-12 20:31:32

You should have got permission first.

There is no point getting angry afterwards and slagging the school off. You sent your daughter there I assume.

Well they have been taking my childs playtime away along with the rest of the class because 15 pupils were naughty without MY permission on numerous occasions

They dont need your permission.

Portofino Wed 14-Mar-12 20:32:26

If I took my dd out of school for 4 days without a doctor's note, she would lose her school place. I am always shocked at how lightly some people treat their dc's education.

yousankmybattleship Wed 14-Mar-12 20:32:30

Are your family not available during school holidays? If you have been planning this holiday for so long, then asking the school for permission should have been part of that planning. Would you just swan off from work without properly clearing it with your boss? Oh, and the four days after the Easter holiday are very important I'm afraid. If you'd bothered speaking to the school they may have explained why.

Northey Wed 14-Mar-12 20:35:32

Teacher training days were taken out of teachers' holidays, not out of days when they would hbe been teaching, so even if the training weren't taking place your child would not have been in school.

ssd Wed 14-Mar-12 20:36:18

don't see he problem with having a 4 day holiday when your dd has a 98% ATTENDANCE RATE

as for everyone saying fo in the holidays, well its twice the price then and some of us struggle with that

op, I don't blame you being pissed off

i hope you get your holiday with your dd and family, you probably deserve it

ssd Wed 14-Mar-12 20:36:57

go not fo

lesstalkmoreaction Wed 14-Mar-12 20:37:34

The problem is you are not asking for time off, in your letter by telling them that the holiday is already paid for you are going on holiday anyway hence the trip will be unauthorised. Next time you ask first.

They did explain and this is what they said-The SCHOOL attendence is below %95 which is below goverment guidlines for the school year.
Its not my problem what the SCHOOL attendence is as my daughter is on time and in school everyday unlike others i know. The goverment are taking over everything at the moment including our nhs and ruining it. I understand why there has to be rules but there should be an exception for those who dont play truant and have over 96%

Voidka Wed 14-Mar-12 20:41:00

It amazes me the amount of people who feel that the only important time in a school year is exam times.

I put exactlly the same on my other daughters forms in the infants and they were accepted straight away so what im saying is the juniors is being a pain all because they got v low ofsted points and theyv been shoved into this goverment lunacy that doesnt allow the low paid a holiday

BackforGood Wed 14-Mar-12 20:42:13

but that's what you are suggesting - that they miss school when not ill.

If they take 4 days off, that's 2.1%, so actually, you are contributing to the under 95%. why is that difficult for you to see ? confused

But she hasnt had the four days yet so it remains at %98

BackforGood Wed 14-Mar-12 20:46:08

can't you see that if you take them, it will be lower ?

Northey Wed 14-Mar-12 20:47:10

Yes, your child would be truanting.

Popoozle Wed 14-Mar-12 20:49:28

What year is your DD in OP? Is it a SATS year? My DS is Year 6 and if he had wanted to have up to 10 days booked holiday in every other year during primary school there would not have been a problem. This year however he would not be allowed any days because of SATS.

Year 4 smile

40notTrendy Wed 14-Mar-12 20:51:54

If they make an exception for you, they have to make exceptions for others. That's the problem isn't it? I don't wish to sound rude, but from the school's point of view, what is so special about your circumstances?
Again, I think if you felt more positive about the school, you'd be happier to support their decisions.

Well that is the thing the school has not been very good lately and its a subject i shall be bringing up at parents evening. My daughter is a very good girl never naughty in school but misses out on play and sumtimes other activties due to the minoritie in her class this has upset her deeply as she is v quiet hard working girl. So i suppose being angry over this issue is what is making me mad about holiday as its just another thing on the list

Popoozle Wed 14-Mar-12 21:00:42

I do think you've been quite unlucky then. I know each school or LEA can have different policies but many a Year 4 child has had a 2 week authorised holiday at DS2's primary school. It's not something we've done personally because with DH's job it is always better for him to go in August anyway but, it certainly isn't uncommon here.

LeeCoakley Wed 14-Mar-12 21:01:53

With regards to the Olympics, a special case could be made for families of the emergency services and armed forces as all leave is cancelled before, during and after AFAIK.

And, as a TA on a paltry salary, I can't go on holiday during term time nor pay the high prices during school holidays. We can usually afford a week or two camping so there is an alternative!

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 21:34:35

4days omg wink I know what a pain up the arse that school is.Hope your ok

Selks Wed 14-Mar-12 21:47:19

OP, your DC might be ill on those four days. Just saying.

Thanku some of you for your positive comments smile, but as for the word truanting u can hardly say shes a truant for 4 days off out of the whole entire year. Yes i should have asked in advance but i didnt so was asking whether its unreasonable considering i told the school 8 weeks before the holiday. Its a sun holiday where u get to pick from so many dates u get sent back that are available-so in may not have got my chosen date that is why i waited as i may have got one of the other dates

Northey Wed 14-Mar-12 21:53:40

Pumpkin, I understand your situation but it is undeniable that your child will technically be truant from school on those four days.

I wont be pretending she is ill because that will get me into trouble if the truancy officer comes out and i dont agree with lying as it leads you into further trouble and if my child got really ill id not forgive myself. Waiting to see if my letter is replyed to and c whether HM has changed his mind and if not i will take her off school for the holiday and b honest about it

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:02:45

I think taking her somewhere will benefit her hugely actually if schools letting her down.She has not been on a family holiday.We will have to try and do something together next year.Shame dp doesnt have the scooby van anymore grin

Northey Wed 14-Mar-12 22:04:38

I think that's the best you can do, pumpkin.

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:05:26

Oh and sorry it took me soo long to get on.I lost my password and it was attached to my old email address that i also lost the password for so had to start again.Argh!

Next year im planning on coming to u, will have to start saving as soon as. It will b more expensive in summer half term but i wont b taking them out of school again too much hassle and its something ive never done b4 and will not repeat again. Best get to college & uni wen kids r grown so i cam afford these luxuries lol- problem is uni fees r sky high il b in debt forever

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:09:51

You need a a mini bus woman.We can meet half way then smile

Groovee Wed 14-Mar-12 22:13:26

Our school wouldn't approve term time holidays either but all it means is its marked down as unauthorised leave not authorised leave. You'll still be able to go.

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:15:22

Oh and a bit of advice.When you post anything on here get your hard hat ready grin

Probably get coach then train or just train. Guna cost a bomb but in want to come up to you for a change miss u biggins and da kids smile

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:20:38

Miss you and the girlies too.I think coach is cheaper but i think you would av to get off in London and change coaches.

shineypenny Wed 14-Mar-12 22:30:31

If she takes time out of school for any reason, other than sickness, without the school's permission then she is truanting.

Education is compulsory, it is not optional.

It is also the principle that you are teaching her that it is ok to take time off from school/work whenever she feels like it.

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:31:35

I wouldn't have my child miss playtime for no one so that you should really complain about i remember the teacher giving me detention because of bitches disrupting class and still remember how upset it made me feel as i was shy good pupil type.Mum went mad haha bless her

Cheddars Wed 14-Mar-12 22:38:24

Perhaps the school can't be seen to be allowing time off but in actual fact they won't do anything about it. I would take the risk.

You could even ask the teacher for the work they're doing that week so that your dd doesn't miss anything.

glaurung Wed 14-Mar-12 22:41:49

It's harsh imo and those on their high horses saying it's not educational and you should have checked first have almost certainly never been in your shoes and unable to afford a holiday except in term time. I think they must have missed the part about your child never having had a holiday, which I think alters your case hugely. I think the new blanket ruling is very unfair on those on low incomes.

Ponders Wed 14-Mar-12 22:50:59

My eldest child is nearly 30. When she was at primary school - pre-NC hmm - this just was not an issue. There were no govt rules about it, no school attendance targets, the whole thing was at the HT's discretion, & our HT had a sensible & phlegmatic attitude to the whole idea of term-time holidays.

All my kids did well at school despite term-time holiday absences & without any request for staff to provide catch-up work, which I agree would be an imposition but really isn't necessary.

They all passed the entrance exam for the local grammar school; they even had some term-time holidays from there & still did very well in GCSEs & A levels. They never had the idea that school doesn't matter.

IMO these across-the-board rules are heavy-handed & unnecessary.


Thanku glaurang u see exactly where i am coming from smile

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 22:55:53

I guess you won't mind if the teacher takes 4 days off after Easter too then?

Why couldn't you go on holiday in the holiday? confused

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 22:59:48

I feel like taking her back with me when we come down.Just so she can have holiday.Bless her.I'm sorry they won't authorize it.4days.you'd think you'd said months

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:01:02

Because its SUN VOUCHERS

What gets me is sum people on here are very bitchy assuming i dont care for my daughters education when i very much do this is just an oppurtunity for her to enjoy her 1st holiday which is also to see family aswell which i also wrote on hol form. The sealife centre is educational in itself a she will be learning about various sealife creatures and when we go to the zoo she will get to learn about all the animals. Yes i made the mistake of paying beforehand but in all honesty i didnt expect to be told it was unauthorised, yeah was stupid of me but everyone makes mistakes

But thats the problem isnt it teachers get paid a lot more than an average factory worker therfore can holiday in the holiday as u say. Oh and just point me & partner get 3 weeks of a year!!! U teachers get the 6 week break then all the half terms aswell not being rude but this is true as i know sum teachers. Not against them in anyway but 3 weeks aint a lot

SaraSidle Wed 14-Mar-12 23:07:40


So true ponders, it was the same when i was at school. Its becoming a nanny state to which we are told what to do all the time, this country is way out of hand on all the wrong things. Fair enough step up on truancy but not to this degree

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:13:05

Don't worry about it.You get them everywhere.Keep your chin up smile

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 23:16:56

3 weeks is illegal! The statutory minimum so 28 days, so 5.6 weeks. hmm

Teachers do not get paid for non-term times, so their holidays may be long but they are unpaid.

If you can't afford a holiday, then you can't afford one- we camp, in the UK because that is what we can afford. (I mean sites that cost £10 per night, not fancy places with hook-ups, pools, and club houses etc)

I shall have a cuppa tea and a biscuit then go to sleep no point worrying ablut something that mite never happen. Life too short as we know rubygloom , u never know whats around the corner so goodnite peeps. One day just one day some of u may realise why family time is just as as important as education time bear

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 23:17:27

so? sorry- 'is'

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 23:18:16

School is only 190 days per year- plenty of time for family time in the other days!

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:20:41

Awwww don't explain yourself to them.You know why family times important.Camping pfft.I find it hard it hard enough camping with 2 let alone 4 and thats with pool club house and tv.

Not if ur at work and the child is in childcare! Not all us parents can have all the holidays offconfused

butilikesalt Wed 14-Mar-12 23:23:48

Just go on the holiday and enjoy yourselves. You've made a perfectly valid decision to take your children for a nice break at a time you can afford. Don't spend another moment worrying about the school's decision. And don't let the kids see your stress. Have fun. Worry about the fine IF it happens.

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:24:29

You have been given a very hard time and being defensive.Understandable.Have an opinion but some comments are spiteful.I'll always stick up for you.Love you lots x

justalittleinsane Wed 14-Mar-12 23:28:09

centreparcs january £199, August, £1500
Loire Valley May £280 for 3 weeks, inc ferry, school hols, £800 PER WEEK

I will be taking my DCs out of school, I want to build a lifetime of memories for them. I do take mine camping and they love it, but I want a few weeks with them with the pool, the weather, I want them to see nature in a different country, bug hunt in the sunshine, I want a time of seeing them splash, of spending a wonderful holiday with me.

When I was in school travel was seen as good for you, now our children are expected to read about it in books and magazines.

If travel doesnt broaden the mind, why do so many senior school take trips abroad??

Foreign travel is going to become the province of the rich and high earner at this rate.

The school could also adopt a flexible policy and sign it off as other educational experience rather than dismiss it out of hand.

Teachers do get paid for the holidays - I have a few friends who have planned pregnancies/return to work dates where they return for a few days at the end of the summer term, in order to be paid over the summer hols and have the additional time off. Also they dont have to find childcare for the DCs in the school hols.

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:28:27

And the reason why family time is soo important to my sis is cos we lost our brother a few years ago in his teens.We never thought he would die,but he did..Theres things he didnt get a chance to do.My sis just cannot afford turn times.If she could she would have gone ages ago

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 23:29:57

ruby- I don't particularly enjoy camping either, but it's all we can afford. It would be a cold day in hell before I take my children out of school for a holiday hmm

Love ya bear we know the true meaning of life is short lets hope this miniority of spiteful mn never have to find out what that actually means as it tears ur heart out like u never thought possiblesad. Miss u and hope to see u soonbear

ParkView Wed 14-Mar-12 23:32:38

justalittleinsane - their salary is calculated based on contact time, and then divided into 12 equal payments. And as most teachers IME spend at least a week, often 2 in school over summer, they do still require childcare over the holidays.

U took the words right out of my mouth justalittle insane: family memorys-and im going to enjoy it with my children whether david cameron likes it not smile

SaraSidle Wed 14-Mar-12 23:34:33

Oh dear lord!

butilikesalt Wed 14-Mar-12 23:35:07

OP, make sure when your DC return to school they tell everyone about what a lovely time they had. I hope they glow.

fussbucket Wed 14-Mar-12 23:35:29

Why didn't you book for the long weekend instead of the four day midweek? Then you only need to take one day off if you leave straight from the school gate - that's what we do with Sun hols.
And are you being annoyed with the TD day being on the last day of term because it means you can't use it for a Sun Hols? In which case you are being very U, the rest of us would much rather TD days were tacked on to the beginning or end of holidays not a wet Wednesday in March.

Ponders Wed 14-Mar-12 23:36:52

Foreign language exchange trips take place during term time, IME. Schools seem to be able to cope with that hmm

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:37:28

Just be careful.I would't want you getting into trouble for it sad

It aint march its end of april by that time we should have sunshinesmile

butilikesalt Wed 14-Mar-12 23:39:24

I don't think it matters which days the OP chose. It's four days. It really does not matter, not one tiny bit.

SaraSidle Wed 14-Mar-12 23:39:32

Why not go over Easter? It's where? Haven? Cheap enough

Rubygloom Wed 14-Mar-12 23:41:39

I was a bit mean when i said camping pfft but honestly you would not want to camp near to where my sis lives.If she lived here she would have Devon Cornwall which are lovely places.So i apologise

I wont dear rubygloom as my kids have good attendence, she even has a certificate so cant c me getting into too much trouble- the 2% she did have off was for winter vomiting virus caught from the school so cant see there being much of a fine and if so il pay in mini installements of 2:50p a week

justalittleinsane Wed 14-Mar-12 23:44:29

parkview IME, and I know a fair few, teachers cant wait to get out of the door at the end of the summer term, and dont head back until they have to, just before autumn starts.

I think thats because I am slightly older - and my friends have lost the initial "enthusiasm" that goes with younger teachers.

I did have one friend who did as you say, and went in in hols, etc, she ended up having a breakdown and left the profession completely, went back to the job she did before she went to university.

Four days ud think id murdered sum1- wait there the goverment allows more lenacy with that dont lol- our laws our all the wrong way round. Let me think...... to teacher a question- could i be arrested for letting my child have four days off? im being serious u know what this country is like!

justalittleinsane Wed 14-Mar-12 23:49:42

pumpkin I think there are just different parenting styles, those who believe an academic education is all important as it teaches - well acedemia and also that you need to adhere to rules, those who believe the rules are bollix, simply invented by a nanny state that wants to increasingly dictate our lives, and those that want to have fun with our children, in a way that suits us, while they are still young enough to want to.

If I thought there was any validity to the govt attendance requirements, then I may listen, but I have travelled a lot, and I know it achieves as much as formal education did.

I know those times with my family helped to bond us together.

butilikesalt Wed 14-Mar-12 23:49:50

You will not be arrested! The only thing you'll need to fear is the sort of sanctimonious judginess you've encountered on here. But that's easily ignored, so ignore it.

justalittleinsane Wed 14-Mar-12 23:51:19

If it makes you feel any better, my DC will be missing the first 2 weeks of reception so I can take a holiday with them - I am far more evil than you!

butilikesalt Wed 14-Mar-12 23:52:51

Well, justalittleinsane, no Russell Group universities for yours! grin

Thanks buttlikesalt and justalittleinsane, i will rest easy nowsmile and have a great time. Some teachers are just as scary now as when i was little but others are lovely and genuinely care about the pupils needs aswell as educational so thanku all teachers on this thread that spoke sense not out of beuracy smile

Lol lets be evil

Ponders Wed 14-Mar-12 23:58:57

mine all went to RG universities

despite having term-time holidays

so there grin

WetAugust Wed 14-Mar-12 23:59:18

I'd refuse to pay a fine if they tried that on.

A fine is a penalty which should only be imposed by the judiciary after you've had the opportunity for a fair hearing.

Fines imposed by schools are the same as fixed penalty tickets - those imposing them have never tested it in Court because they know it would probably not be upheld.

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 00:00:58

I think I'll live without the Russell Group Uni grin.

Honestly, there is nothing they learn until they start their GCSE courses, that cant be taught, by a parent, if the school is willing to learn.

Do I think a 4 year old, who doesnt legally have to even be in school, is going to fall behind his peers by going on holiday for 2 weeks with me, um well NO, is the answer to that, ditto to 6, 8 or 11.

Last time I looked, they are my children and I will parent them in the (slightly alternative) was that I think is best for them, and not in a manner that suits some random government statistic, designed to penalise us all, for the behaviour of a few.

butilikesalt Thu 15-Mar-12 00:01:32

I went to an RG too and my parents were term-time holiday junkies. Four days in junior school. I seriously cannot fathom anyone thinking this is an issue.

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 00:01:52

if the school is willing to oblige (not learn)

Thats the thing im sick of all this statisacal malarky its pointless and normally penilise the good people of society! If ur kids are a 1lb overweight u get a letter home, if they have a lemon mousse in their lunch u get told off, the school wont put a plaster on wen kids are injured, they cant console a child when upset, they cant wear tiny studs under tape in pe anymore etc the list goes on and its all down to the nanny state and health and saftey bolony thats gone way overboard. Im in my early twenties and i dont rememba all this plop wen i was at school not so long ago and we all survived and passed exams

LadyWidmerpool Thu 15-Mar-12 00:14:12

I think your problem is with the holiday companies.

If everyone went on holiday in term time then the prices would shoot up!

Well they are also at fault too but hey ho that will never change theres too much money to be made in half term for them to change that

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 00:18:15

No the problem is not the holiday companies, thats simply a case of supply and demand. They are a business, take a caravan site that charges 20k (euros) fees for a 7 month season, they are going to charge the most when people will pay the most.

The problem is a govt that increasingly wants to control every aspect of our lives. This is just one example.

CalamityKate Thu 15-Mar-12 00:18:27

Hah! I can top that!

Last year, on the LAST DAY BEFORE THE 6 WEEK HOLIDAY, we wanted to take the boys out of school at lunchtime. Taking into account lunch, that would mean taking them out 3 HOURS early.

On the last day of school. When they do nothing but play games/watch DVD's. Three hours early. Three HOURS.

School said no.

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 00:19:35

calamity thats just insane!

That is lunacy calamity, wonder how more the goverment can be in control by the end of this year! worrying isnt it ! Bet disposable nappies will be banned and babymilk

CalamityKate Thu 15-Mar-12 09:13:46

Actually - it wasn't 3 hours early, was it. Since they have lunch from 12 - 1, and they finish at 3.15, it was TWO AND A QUARTER hours of watching DVDs school they'd have missed.

ByTheWay1 Thu 15-Mar-12 09:53:52

It is not lunacy though is it - really- if we could all just take time whenever we wanted, schools would be fighting a losing battle.... oh hang on, may that be what is happening?!...

Perhaps the more stringent rules are to try and stop some of the chaos....

All the school is doing is saying they will not AUTHORISE your absence... you can still go, but then your absence gets called what it truly is - TRUANCY..

Oh, and yes, mine have had time out for a holiday - I had it authorised, but would still have gone if not authorised..

I see no difference with kids bunking off to go down the beach and kids doing the same on holiday......

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 10:06:09

actually if you diarise it and with the schools agreement, do undertake educational activities, then it can be classed as being educated off site, under flexi schooling arrangements, it doesnt HAVE to be unauthorised abscence at all.

If being on holiday isnt educational, how come they have trips to Spain, Rugby tours in school terms (as long as they are school ones), and so on and so forth.

HavePatience Thu 15-Mar-12 10:16:21

I am a teacher (independent school, so may be different and I'm home today with ill DS) and have no problem with parents doing this occasionally.

They don't ask permission, they let us know when they will be out. And this is accepted. Everyone is sensible about it. smile. N

I send a small packet of work that they can do If away for a whole week or two (obviously they will miss the instruction and hands on, but I can catch them up on their return). I also do not teach an enormous class of 30 students (I know it's normal, it just seems enormous to me) so it might be easier for me to do this.

The thing is why should i be penilised for others lax time keeping. If MY children attend the vast majority of the year and others that attend the vast majority of the year should get a bit of lenecy. There are alot of parents that let their kids get away with far too much truancy and that is why the goverment came up with this idea- but it should be those type of parents that are punished shouldnt it. Im worried about being fined thats why i posted on here

seeker Thu 15-Mar-12 10:21:46

You're not penalised being penalized.The school is applying the rules. Term time holidays are not allowed except in very exceptional circumstances in most schools.

ByTheWay1 Thu 15-Mar-12 10:26:30

You sound very "entitled" pumpkin..... why on earth should the rules not apply across the board - YOU WILL BE contributing to the truancy rate at your school by taking them out in term time - YOU WILL BE one of "those type of parents". You are not being penalised, merely treated the SAME as anyone else.

HavePatience Thu 15-Mar-12 10:26:57

Unless you're from the US, seeker wink

HavePatience Thu 15-Mar-12 10:28:28

blush oops sorry I misread your post. Actually, I think I'm still misreading...

Northey Thu 15-Mar-12 10:30:07

Also, I may be wrong, but I think attendance rates are also affected by things like children being away for operations etc. So it may well not be truanting behaviour which is solely to blame for your school's statistics, but, for example, a child with a debilitating and long term illness, requiring frequent hospitalisation.

I can spell it the way i wanna spell it this isnt about grammer its about the subject! And in my area there are a lot of rough parents who allow their kids to play truant just coz they dont wanna get up early-i know this as iv heard people say it outside the school gates. Whether i feel i should be entititled or not it is only 4 days-if i was asking for 7 days then yes it would be wrong

'One of those types of parents' i DO NOT think so!! U know nothing of my life and what it involves dont be so rude. Its the ONLY holiday she will have ever had and has only ever been off due to be being ill so no i wouldnt say im that type-the type that lets their kids off school for their birthday, coz they r too lazy to get kids to school etc the list goes on and no i dont do this

seeker Thu 15-Mar-12 11:04:13

Sorry- I didn't mean to make any points about spelling- hope it didn't look as if I was. Blame auto correct and me not previewing!

Pumpkin sweetie- I think you should stop looking at what other people are doing. Just because they are even worse doesn't mean that what you're doing is OK!

justalittleinsane Thu 15-Mar-12 11:17:17

Yes attendance rates can be affected by operations.

I havea friend whose daughter nearly died in an accident - and she was receiving letters about attendance rates - it was appalling.

ByTheWay1 Thu 15-Mar-12 11:22:45

pumpkin... I was merely using a phrase you yourself had used to describe others - whose circumstances you know nothing about.....

and to echo seeker - just because others do wrong it does not mean what you are doing is right.

Frankly, I don't care if you take your kids out for 4 days - or 7 or 10.... that is up to you, but you need to accept that there is a possibility of being fined for it, and the fine will be the same for you as for "those types of parents" because unauthorised absence is unauthorised absence.

butilikesalt Thu 15-Mar-12 12:01:42

There's nothing wrong with taking 4 days off for a holiday. Nothing even slightly wrong. You ARE entitled to it. Your DC are entitled to take their first ever holiday.

And there's a huge difference between a child bunking off down the beach without the knowledge of parent or school, and a child whose holiday time has been organised, supervised and above all authorised by the parent.

If u frankly dont care dont reply to thread

ByTheWay1 Thu 15-Mar-12 14:27:44

fine - going away now... but maybe you should not ask what "everyone thinks" if you only want replies that agree with you..

seeker Thu 15-Mar-12 14:50:59

"You ARE entitled to it" No, you aren't.

Blu Thu 15-Mar-12 15:00:12

Pumpkin - the problem is that the school don't make individual decisions based on each child. They have a list of circumstances under which they can grant 'authorised absence' and anything else, which includes holidays no matter what the child's attendance record, is unauthorised.

It's not about you or your dd's good attendance record, it's about what absence is allowed for. Go, it will be put down as unauthorised, and keep your fingers crossed that they don't fine you.

I was interested to know what people thawt that is all. But to say you frankly dont care means u dont care so why comment grin

Thanku blu, u speak common sense without being bitch thanku its nice to know sum of u are human x

yousankmybattleship Thu 15-Mar-12 17:01:52

Pumpkin - I really don't undrstand why you started this thread as you seem determined to ignore anything that anyone says if it doesn't fit your very narrow minded view. The trouble with starting a debate is that people will give their opinions and these may differ from yours. I happen to think education is important. I also understand that it is impossible for teachers to teach effectively if they constantly have children missing from their class. Yes, holidays are fun and nice to have but they are not essential. School is compulsory and you do not have any right to remove your children just so you can go on a cheapy holiday. Your head has told you as much and I really don't see that you have any reason to feel agrieved.

BIWI Thu 15-Mar-12 17:53:13

You seem determined to be affronted as well, even though many people have pointed out why you are in the wrong!

As it's obviously so important to you, then go. But don't be surprised if you are fined.

Thats the thing i like see peoples opinions but not in the way they have been worded on her. Blu sets a good example as she has explained the guidlines without saying 'i dont have a right' or 'cheap holiday' 'not entitled' and of course i have got annoyed ast they are my children so i do have the right and i should be entitled due to her high attendence and 'cheap holiday' actually cost me more than some of u seem to think £9:50 each for 6 people plus electricity £30 for caravan, plus £5 and £10 deposit for cot, train fare is very high as i do not own a car and spending money and food money and suitcases as i do not own any but it is cheaper than in half term. Sorry i aint rich but i do my best for my kids which means a short educational break away with family. Just because it aint abroad or is a bit cheap doesnt make it uneducational and if i could afford ehat some of u obviously can i wouldnt be taking her outta school. I have rent to pay and bills dont have the money to save the £1500 it is to go in june!!! Life is short and as i said earlier u dont know wots around the corner. One day sum of you will wake up and realise 4 days of school for break isnt such a big deal smile was simply worried about being fined but hey ho off i go

Yeh it is IMPORTANT u cannot get family time back end offbear

And also wonder how much money u lot live of a year bet it isnt £12,000 bet its more like £40,000 come on some of you on here saying its wrong bet ur rolling in it thats why u have the same views as david cameron. Yes this thread is insulting but hey ho im told im wrong but so are you for saying my child should be deprived of a holiday

yousankmybattleship Thu 15-Mar-12 18:12:24

I referred to your holiday as cheap because that is the only reason you are going in term time. The fact of the matter is you are not entitled to take your children out of school in term time. You might not agree with that, but it is the law. I agree that holidays are lovely and can be educational but I do not agree that they are educational enough to replace school. Children have holidays for a reason and that is when you should think about going away. Nobody is saying your children should be deprivedof a holiday, lots of people are saying that they should take that holiday in holiday time. Like many other families, we have to stay with relatives or go for days out to create a holiday for our children because there is no way we could afford holiday accomodation, but we still have a lovely time and my children are getting the full benefit of their education.

BIWI Thu 15-Mar-12 18:28:50

The amount of money other people earn has nothing to do with it, and that is actually a rather insulting thing to say.

And no-one is saying that your child should be deprived of a holiday.

Holidays are really important and a key part of family life, creating amazing memories. They may - occasionally - be educational.

But you don't actually have an entitlement to them when your child is supposed to be at school!

Anyway, I'll leave you to your thread as you obviously aren't interested, really, in what anyone who disagrees with you has to say ... hmm

40notTrendy Thu 15-Mar-12 18:53:36

I thought in general people's comments were not bitchy. I've seen worse.
I think your comments have become increasingly sour tempered. And your sweeping generalisations about people's earnings and circumstances and having a pop at teachers are not pleasant.

fabwoman Thu 15-Mar-12 18:58:49

Teacher training days don't come up without warning.

You will be fined as the head will kjnow your child is not really sick.

We haven't had a holiday every year as we can't always afford the cost/dh get time off work and that is the reality of having children in school.

Holidays are a luxury, not a necessity.

Never said i was guna pretend she was sick thats what another mumsnetter put. I do have morals

And in wrote last night sum teachers are lovely some are not. The earnings bit was about people affording holidays in general working in any high paid job not just teaching. And its true a high earner can afford holidays whenever i cannot

startail Thu 15-Mar-12 19:05:39

If the school want to mark it as unauthorised let them. It looks bad on their records.
Sorry I don't believe either work or school owns people body and soul.
Family time is vital.

Northey Thu 15-Mar-12 19:25:27

You would have family time in the school holidays though! You don't actually need to be in a caravan or holiday cottage or hotel or wherever in order to have it. It's not a now or never situation.

seeker Thu 15-Mar-12 20:56:02

Why is family time reserved for holidays?

Portofino Thu 15-Mar-12 21:14:54

We never went on holiday at all as children. Well we went to Spain when I was 9, and I got dreadful sunburn. And that was it, til I was well into my teeenage years. It is not obligatory - whereas education is.

kitbit Fri 16-Mar-12 00:36:03

We don't have £££ to take a holiday in the school hols either so we don't take expensive holidays, we go camping.
And ds goes to school during term time like he's supposed to.

And I use paragraphs.

(Sorry but your bad tempered snarky comments have annoyed me.)


Groovee Fri 16-Mar-12 17:03:19

We don't have a lot of spare left over money for holidays, but managed to get a caravan in our preferred site for cheaper than the sun deal as everything was included. And that's in the first week of the Easter Holidays. I'm restricted as I work a term time only contract, only get paid for what I work, no holiday pay do August is always a lean month with scottish schools being off for the whole of July. But we pay our bills and have a roof over our heads!

ellieday Wed 11-Apr-12 23:23:07

When visiting secondary schools for dd1 I remember the head in his parent talk saying the following 'by choosing our school you are choosing to follow the rules'. He was at the time mostly referring to the wearing of correct uniform but his words did make sense, I was making my choice by choosing that school.

As a primary school teacher myself, it is annoying when children are taken out of school particularly at the beginning of a term when we are introducing a new topic and refreshing class rules etc. Then when the child returns, they may have missed out on something that will lead to further work.
It amazes me that there are always children do not turn up on the first few days of the September term then the parents ask for their holiday to be sanctioned on their return with a variety of reasons/excuses!

We also do not give 'holiday work' as the feeling is that if the parent chooses to take holidays in term time that is their choice (even if holiday is authorised). Also I may not have planned what the class will be doing for the entire time just one child is absent. However if a parent has the decency to ask I will make a holiday diary pack with pencils and a book for the child to bring back to school to share with the class.

OP - you asked the school for holiday to be authorised and got turned down, they are following their rules which are agreed by the governing body. if you don't agree with their rules why not find another school!

They never stated rules when she started this school, but this thread is old now and things are nearly sorted and my dcs are very much looking forward to their 1st holidaygrin.
Headmaster phoned me & was very polite, he said as long as my daughter attended school everyday before the easter holidays i could send in another holiday form and he will authorise it.
He said the reason he could not authorise the original form is because her attendence needed to be just a little higher or he will get in the neck from truancy officer.
He was quite honest in the fact my dc has only ever had time of due to illness so he was quite happy as it would be a one-off in our case so he is willing to authorise it as soon as she is back at schoolsmile
Basically its nothing to do with school RULES it was to do with national goverment attendence NEW rules which in my opinion are ott.
All the other problems i had with the school have also been sorted smile

slacklucy Wed 11-Apr-12 23:47:29

my two dc's go to two different schools one is happy to authorise hols the other never authorises holidays during term time, unless your a farmer it seems!!
We will be going in term time this year first time ever & my eldest is 12.... but as dh & i are not able to get the same time off of work during the holidays we are going just before the summer hols.
I'm afraid i'll just ahve to take the punishment should they see fit to fine me.

The school rules should have been in the pack of information that you were given when your child started at the school - I well remember the mountain of paperwork that mine each came home with.

Yaaaaaayyyyy it has been authorised smile

mumeeee Sun 22-Apr-12 17:43:19

Teachers have to do a lot in their holidays. Marking and lesson planning. So they don't get as much holiday as some people think. But I don't think taking your DD out for 4 days will do her any harm. Ponders my eldest is 25 and there were some rules about taking term time holidays when she was at school. Children were actually allowed up to. 10 ( 2 school weeks) days off during term time. We still had to ask permission but always got it and we usually only went away for a week.

AMJ3 Fri 27-Apr-12 00:56:27

If u r planning to c family during the holiday, u should have said that u have to go to see family and have no where to leave ur children. So they do have to go with u. However i do know schools r really strict if they the kids have Sats. They never allow time off then.

jayneypoo Mon 04-Jun-12 12:36:17

If it's exceptional circumstances, they have to consider it. I've been honest with my daughters school and fortunately they have given us permission. There are a lot of families in my daughters year that have blatantly lied ie: weddings etc... and school have done the same. I really don't think it's fair to say 'they fancied a cheap holiday' holidays are not cheap at all and are exceptionally expensive during school holidays. I think a little bit of understanding and thought towards families' situations would go a long way. Schools have targets and deadlines and reputations to uphold. The government should allow a limited time for family holidays and then there wouldn't be any unauthorised absences because of it. Some families can't afford a week in a tent on the east coast during the summer hols.

FallenCaryatid Mon 04-Jun-12 12:37:11

Yet another Zombie thread lurches into the light.
Why do posters do this?

NoComet Mon 02-Jul-12 09:58:08

Just go!!!

hellyb25 Wed 15-Aug-12 09:31:26

some people on this thread are so self-righteous. I have booked a two week holiday next year on the 14th of July. Therefore my year two son will have to take the last five days of the year off. I havent requested this yet. my husband is a firefighter and gets set holidays so we have no choice when we go away. he has had 100% attendance for the last two years so if they say no i will be really pissed off. fingers crossed hey!

Jessie84 Wed 23-Jan-13 18:28:14

I have taking both my children aged 3 and 7 out of school and nursery for a two weeks, as we took a month trip backpacking in Thailand. The way I see it is yes first of all for financial reasons we couldn't do it otherwise but also it was an education recieved that they would never experience in school. We didn't spend every day by the pool or beach we visited temples seen elephants communicated and played with the thia community. It was culture shock which was good they had a trip they will never forget. My son kept a journal and made a scrap book also we did loads of reading taking photos. Honestly I can say they benefited more from that trip then being at school for two weeks. Tbh the school was brilliant they fully understood and appreciated are reasons. Their attendance have always been good so it really wasn't a problem. I'm planning to take them off school for 5days this year as we have a trip planned to Sri Lanka where again we will be traveling through the south. I have no doubt in my mind I'm doing the best for my children and if the school had a problem I would do it anyway... I know what's best for my kids not the school and certainly not the government. Of course if there were exams and such I would not dream of it. Because I am a good mum and I weigh the factors ups. I'm sure most mums who decide to do it do the same. After all we all want to give our children the best start in life.

misty14 Sat 11-May-13 07:36:59

I have just requested authorised time off for my 6 year old daughter so we can go on a family holiday in June. We are going with my family who are in the fire service, so they have got allocated holiday slots which they cannot change. I explained this in the application letter, I even offered to take some work with us. The request was denied, so it will go on my daughters record as unauthorised. The letter I got back from her head teacher even contained a veiled threat about the involvement of the educational welfare officer as she will be absent from school for 11 days because of flight times. My husband spoke to the educational welfare officer and was told that all the heads in our town had taken the collective decision to refuse all requests, unless there are very exceptional circumstances (the only one mentioned was a soldier returning from active service), this person also informed my husband that as of September 1st 2013, new government rules come in to force meaning all requests for leave during term time will be refused, countrywide, and also the current, discretionary, £60 per parent, per child, fixed penalty fines, will be made compulsory. This means that each parent will get fined £60 per child who doesn't attend school, my impression of the new policy is that these fines will kick in for even 1 day of unauthorised absence. Now for us this may mean our holidays are, in future, few and far between. Adding the cost of any fines onto the cost of our holidays will, in many cases, make them unaffordable. Holidays during school holiday periods are already getting too expensive for us, as well as the fact that we don't particularly like going during August as it can be too busy and hot for us. We consider ourselves to be responsible parents, our daughter has a good attendance record and she is doing very well in her lessons, according to her teacher. Our local authority has produced a leaflet about this subject and it states that exam/test times and the first few weeks of a new school year should be avoided. I just wish that the people who made this policy change, actually understood how it affects real people, particularly the "hard working families", they all claim to support.

AuntieStella Sat 11-May-13 07:49:18

All central Government is doing is removing the wording relating to holidays.

Authorisation is now, and will remain, totally at HT discretion so the person to whom "hard working families" need to take their complaints about policy within their school is the head.

But be prepared to find that your HT genuinely wants your DC in school in term time for benefit to both the individual child and the school community, and therefore does not want to authorise.

(misty14, if you want a not hot, not crowded, not expensive August holiday, try Dumfries and Galloway)

misty14 Sat 11-May-13 08:30:49

Sorry for posting on multiple threads, new to this thing and just followed what I had noticed a few other people had done, posting a topic on similar threads, so apologies for that. However, a direct quote from the email i got from the local authority states:-

"Term-time holiday:
Current 2006 regulations allow head teachers to grant leave of absence for the purpose of a family holiday during term time in "special circumstances" of up to ten school days leave per year. Headteachers can also grant extended leave for more than ten school days in exceptional circumstances.
Amendments to the 2006 regulations remove references to family holiday and extended leave as well as the statutory threshold of ten school days.
The amendments make clear may NOT grant any leave of absence during term time unless there are exceptional circumstances. Headteachers should determine the number of school days a child can be away from school if the leave is granted."
Unless I am mistaken this means NO permission will be given unless In the exceptional circumstances it mentions. And yes we would love to try Dumfries in August so long as the price of this is not substantially higher than it would be if we went in June.

lljkk Sat 11-May-13 15:05:35


We get the msg, Misty.

lljkk Sat 11-May-13 15:07:32

"for us this may mean our holidays are, in future, few and far between. "

My holiday plans are few and far between but if I believe the rumours I will get fined heavily anyway. Oh well.

AbbyR1973 Sun 26-May-13 17:08:03

I think this detracts from the idea that travel is an educationally useful activity for children. The experience of visiting new places, trying out languages etc. There is this bizarre idea that somehow time children spend with their parents is educationally less valuable than time spent in school. The reality is that in many cases the cost of holidays during the school holidays is so expensive it would essentially exclude some children from these positive experiences because financially it would not be viable- that includes holidays both in the UK and overseas.
There are also people who don't get to choose when they take their holiday such as many people in public service.
Fortunately our school takes a sensible attitude on this and recognises the value of family breaks. It also considers that homework includes trips out with the family, learning a musical instrument, taking part in sports activities etc. Long may good sense continue!

ILikeTrains Sun 16-Jun-13 19:42:13

I know several parents who factor in the cost of the fine when budgeting for a holiday. Even with the new compulsory fines quoted in misty14's post it's still a lot cheaper than paying for a holiday during the school holidays.

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