ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think inset days are completely unreasonable?(53 Posts)
As a parent, it's hard enough trying to juggle work and child care during the school holidays, but I COMPLETELY fail to understand why teachers get about 13 weeks' holiday a year and then take additional days for training. Why can't they take a little bit less holiday (it's only 5 days, so that's um 12 weeks holiday - still WAY more than anyone else) and make it easier on parents? Anyone??
Teachers pay a lot into their pensions. Maybe this is not well known too. https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/faqs/new-and-active-teachers/scheme-reforms.aspx
Please remember when looking at teacher's holidays that we get 12 weeks a year (kids get13). That includes all the bank holidays. Therefore if most jobs give 25 days holiday, they also give another 8 bank holidays on top of that. We are now comparing 60 days with 33 days. Then remember that our holidays are totally inflexible.
I wonder how many non- teachers would trade another 27 days holiday a year with fixed holidays, verbal abuse, regular 14 hour days, fixed evening working commitments, weekend preparation... Oh and Michael Gove.
I do like the zombie thread alert!
The reason OP was criticised was because essentially she asked "why couldn't inset days be taken out of teachers' holidays" and it was pointed out at they are. The pupils' school year is, was, and will remain 190 days. The teachers' year is 5 days more than that (representing a reduction in their previous leave allowance).
I was horrified by the level of vitriol directed at the person who asked the question. This is Mums net and she posed a question directed at the parents and from a parents point of view and wanted to ask parents what they thought.
We know what teachers think they get to strike and have a union and direct contacts within the media to put across their point of view. Where are parents allowed the same?
Many teachers answering the question put forward the point of view that if you didnt want to look after your children you shouldn't have had them. Perhaps if you don't like the working conditions of a teacher you should not have become a teacher. If the demands on the teacher were supposed to be as well known as you think they are, then you knew that before you became a teacher. If you didn't, then perhaps you could understand that parents don't either.
You assume a full and thorough awareness of your working conditions and a deep understanding by parents but yet you don't afford them the same courtesy. Parents have no real voice. Decisions are made by government not parents.
13 weeks holiday is still 9 WEEKS MORE than most people in this country and you are not the only people who have demands made on them during their holiday. Your working hours are not far removed from many people in the country who get 4 - 6 weeks holiday a year.
Please please please do not alienate yourselves from the parents in this country who you have to work with to educate our next generation who WILL be paying your pension (or at least part of it), despite what you have been led to believe.
Good grief - what do you think teachers do with their own kids on INSET days?
You had kids - deal with it. Befor eyou complain imagine working shifts, do you think nurses / doctors / paramedics etc have children? How do you think they manage?
And it is not just in health care, supermarkets operate 24 hours these days, as do a lot of call centres.
If your only problem is not having childcare for a couple of days a year you really don't have a problem.
I am a visiting teacher employed by the local authority. Every year the county set out when schools should have their inset days, every year schools opt out of these days and do them on other days often with very little notice to parents. It is also not uncommon for me to arrive at a school to find them closed for inset (nobody bothers to tell me). Add onto this all the times certain schools can't have me in because of school trips etc. & the fact that many primaries won't have me in at all in the morning because of literacy/numeracy hours and my teaching turns into a nightmare of half days sitting in the car (which I can't charge my time for) waiting for the time to come for me to arrive at the next school!
I don't have anything against INSET days, but I do think they need to be well planned, with everyone involved in the school knowing months in advance when they are going to happen & preferably all on the same day throughout the authority. Our department lend senior colleagues to other authorities for INSET days as they do for us all on the same days, so I don't think the lack of staff to take INSET days at the same time arguement is valid as long as schools work with each other & share knowledge.
My gripe with inset days is that schools organise them badly. I don't care about the number of perceived holiday days that teachers get, that's the deal and it's fair enough. But schools could organise it better so that you get a lump of days together, then things like holiday clubs might be available. As a pp said, it's the random day thing that makes it hard for working parents and that IS within the control of the school.
Hulababy - I get all of that about inset days, but they are still a pain for working parents. Private schools don't have them afaik (but they do have longer holidays)
I am not sure about school =/= childcare thing - why then do the government say that SPs with children over 5 have to seek work - surely it's because being in FT school does cover a certain amount of childcare?
Not this thread again...
You make it sound as if it is the teachers who are having a say in all of this. Inset days often comprise compulsory training as set out by the government. eg Safeguarding. Every time exam boards decide to change the syllabus, departments need time to sort out new schemes of work etc. Every time the dfe demands more data, teachers need to be trained in how to access and manipulate the IT systems in order to utilise data for ofsted reports. If the Head wants the school to have a web page we need training on how to upload info, if the government issue new guidlines on how to deal with violence in the classroom we need training on that. Blah blah ....I could go on. If we didn't have these days then your children would be taught by lots of cover teachers whilst staff did this training which they themselves often did not ask to do. No school could afford that level of cover.
Plus, just while I am at it, I get in to work at 8am. I sit down at break for a coffee but work through my lunch and leave around 4. 30 . I mark/prepare/study for new A levels I might be teaching etc etc pretty much every night apart from Fri/Sat.
If teaching was such a doss, why aren't people killing eachother to get into it?
Sorry for rambling.
My only gripe about inset days is that I wish they were all arranged to take place in the autum term as it seems to go on forever, and it would be nice to have some long weekends then. It does seem much more intrusive in the shorter, busier terms when there a Bank Holidays anyhow giving those valuable little bits of decompression.
I work in a school, but I don't teach, and neither do I get paid in accordance with STPCD so I guess that makes me moderately unbiased.
I value Inset days as a parent, since it means that my son's teachers are receiving CPD opportunities that they probably wouldn't be able to access if it were not for Baker's foresight. And as for "it was taken out of our holiday"... well, you could afford to lose it really since 13 weeks paid holiday is enough for anyone, and let's not forget that you get extra cash for it.
I value Inset days as a member of staff, since it means I get an opportunity to access CPD that I would otherwise miss out on if it were not being delivered to whole groups on dedicated Inset days.
I do wonder though why some people think it'd be better to provide a free childminding service for 5 more days a year than it is to train our teachers to educate their children to a better standard?
When I arrive at 7am at school, there are already lots of teachers there - working. During every single school holiday, there are intervention lessons going on, therefore the teachers are there. When I drive passed my school to drop DD somewhere at almost 6pm, there are still a large number of teacher cars in the carpark.
Teaching is not a 9 - 3, 39 weeks a year job - they just get paid for that amount.
Oh get me, getting involved! I'm not going to be drawn into this! I'm 'aving another fag!
It is true that the children's summer holidays used to be longer, but we also used to get shorter half-terms when I was at school.
But I thought teachers worked through (most of) the holidays anyway, so they haven't really come out of holiday, they have come out of preparation time.
There is no point in getting wound up about it, fellow school workers (I'm not a teacher, but I know the deal)
This country is not 9 to 5. There are very few occupations that are 9 to 5 these days. Fact of life, I'm afaid. If you chose to have children, and I include myself in that, then you just have to live with the problems that it throws up. It's not forever. It's part of being a parent. I get pissed off as a school worker that I have to spend most of my school holiday waiting in for gas man, boiler repair man, parcels, etc or going to the dentist or doctors or opticians. My choice - there you go! There are far more difficult situations that could befall you.
Chill people - chill! <<lights another spliff and shares the love>>
Perhaps a better OP would have been, 'do INSET days come out of term time or teachers holidays' then, if you didn't want to get flamed.
I don't think you can complain that teachers have come on here and got really pissed off with your OP, when it was so agressive tbh.
I think I might have 'Inset days come out of our holiday time' on my clipboard for instant paste. I've lost count of the times, that line has been needed on here in the last few weeks! I'll think of another stock line for when we wind up for the long summer holidays!
SEA - may schools have after school club til beyond 5pm. Many start before 8am aslo through breakast clubs. Granted in most cases the extra hours need to be paid for.
You OP is the reason that people are getting het up. The focus entirely on the holidays.
If teaching is such a cushy job - go do it.
Oh for goodness sake. Not yet another INSET thread. The topi has been covered so many times in the last few weeks.
INSET already was taken from teacher's holidays. teachers ow have 5 days less holiday than they did before INSET was introduced.
INSET is essential for teaching staff throughout the year.
INSET is used for training purposes.
INSET is not a jolly for teaching staff.
INSET needs to be spread throughout the year in order to meet the needs of the school.
School is not childcare.
southeastastra - Many schools do stay open past 5 o'clock nowadays as they run after school clubs - and also breakfast clubs - providing care for children of working parents.
'surely teachers should be trained enough'
My last 2 inset training consisted of child protection training - how to spot potential child abuse and what do do if you suspect it, and 'team teach' training - which is how to restrain physically violent children to protect themselves and others.
Both these need updating regularly and, I'm sure you'll agreed, pretty important.
Oh and teachers are quite often parents, too, and have to juggle their childcare around their children's schools' inset days.
thumbsucker I think you got ripped into because you didn't do any elementary research which would have shown you that the inset days already happen in teachers' holiday time. They don't "take" these days for training, they were forced on them in the 80s.
You also suggested making it easier on the parents. Schools can't always get the speakers they need at the same time, so stagger the days over the year. Schools have their own agendas, yet must be responsive any
shite initiatives coming from government, so days do move around. I think, though, that they should be set at the start of the year, and have been in all schools I taught in in the UK.
Your beef needs to be with government, not the teachers.
Children get the exact amount of teaching time they always had.
Inset days don't bother me as they don't affect my work but I do have 1 question.
Why do my kids schools use some of their inset days at the very end of the school year in julywhen the children break up?
I can understand the beginning of the school year and all the others in between but just not the couple that are sometimes added to the end.
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