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Desperately need help to save my marriage with 9 week old baby

(147 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

simba86 Thu 07-Aug-14 23:53:52

Hi everyone.

I am going through a really difficult situation at the moment and really don't know what to do.

My wife and I (married for 3 years, together for nearly 10) are in our late 20's. We are privileged to be blessed with the most beautiful baby girl who is just over 9 weeks old, and we had been trying for 2 years for a baby. We love each other and consider each other true soul mates. Our lives are very settled and we have alot to thankful for.

But we have a major issue which has come to its head now and is now looking likely to cause the break up of our marriage.

My wife has had problems with the way my mother behaves towards us and her. She feels that over the past 10 years have been numerous occasions where my mother has been manipulative and spiteful towards her. I am an only child who has a close relationship with both my parents. We have lived for the past 10 years some two hours drive away from them and slowly over time our communication and visits to them have disappeared. In fact we have only ever been twice in 10 years to my family home, in comparison to regular visits to her family each year.

The stress of my mothers behaviour has become too much for now to cope with. She doesn't want to see my parents, and wont let our daughter out of her sight. Since she has been born, my parents have spent an our in the hospital with us 2 days after she was born, 30 minutes visit to our home where they had to look at her through our dining room door because she was asleep and 5 minutes with her whilst my wife held her on another visit. Her Mum has been with us for weeks on an off.

She sent an email to my mum expressing how upset she was, to which my mum replied. My wife didnt think that she understood the cause of the problem, so allowed me to speak to my mum, who replied by email again and apologised for hers and my dads behaviour and hoped they could move forward now to a better relationship in the future. But yesterday my dad was out of order with me, which I dealt with and was resolved, but my wife is so upset that this behaviour has happened again, feels they will never change, she can not have a relationship with them, and feels I have to choose to accept they wont be in our lives as much as they should be,or for us not to be together.

I am distraught and on top of that, whilst her mother was with us recently, her mother told me that I didnt care enough for my daughter. Anyone who knows me would say that is the most ridiculous thing that could be said but now my wife tonight has said she agrees with her mum.

My parents are selling their house I grew up in for 20 years and I really wanted to take my daughter home to have a couple of photos with her there which I wont have an oppotunity to do again as the sale completes in a couple of weeks. My wife wont entertain this at all so I was going to go home myself on Saturday. When they offered to drive me back, see the new house they are buying and drop me home to see their Granddaughter, my wife took our daughter drove off and intended to stay in a hotel as she could not comprehend the idea of seeing them. I talked her back into coming home thankfully

I want to save this for the sake of my daughter and our relationship but have hit rock bottom and don't know what to do

flappityfanjos Fri 08-Aug-14 00:04:35

What exactly is the behaviour that your wife objects to? With a small baby, and recovering from pregnancy and birth, your wife must be feeling very vulnerable right now and very protective of her child. If your parents can be "out of order" with you, it seems possible that your wife doesn't trust them to treat her baby with kindness, in which case I imagine she's terrified of having them around right now. The strength of her reaction suggests that, too.

Their behaviour sounds emotionally abusive, on which basis I frankly would not trust their apology - people should not NEED to be told not to be manipulative and spiteful.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 00:20:44

My parents often speak before thinking and instantly react to thinks thinking about how it will affect them first.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Fri 08-Aug-14 00:24:12

Ok I never do this but... Try rewriting your post from your wife's point of view. Genuinely give it a shot - you don't need to post it if you don't want to. But try writing down how she feels (then multiply it by 10 to take account of the fact she has just given birth).

I think this will help you clarify what's going on.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 00:27:24

So what do I do? Accept that she is so upset by my parents that they are not going to see my daughter? Is that fair?

TheAwfulDaughter Fri 08-Aug-14 00:32:41

Yes. If they are behaving that appallingly towards her. What are they actually doing? What have they said? I know you said they speaking without thinking, but about what specifically? 'They think without speaking' is a huge cop out if it's constantly rolled out as an excuse for your parents behaviour. They need to think before they speak if it brings their DIL to tears.

I'm an only child- I get it, but sometimes our parents are tits and they need to be told. Your loyalty is with your wife and baby girl now, and they need to stop upsetting her sad

flappityfanjos Fri 08-Aug-14 00:32:54

Can you give any kind of example? Sorry, it's just hard to imagine why your wife's reacting like this without an idea of how severe this behaviour actually is. When they speak before thinking, do they insult you/her? When they think about themselves first, is that when she feels they're manipulative - do they try to make other people do what they want?

What do your wife and her mother mean when they say you don't care enough for your daughter? Do they mean you don't do enough of the hands-on daily care, or do they mean you're not concerned enough for her? I ask because so far it sounds like your wife perceives your parents to be a threat, and maybe she feels she can't trust you to keep your daughter safe from them - maybe she worries that your loyalty to your parents blinds you to what she is afraid of.

Or maybe your parents are just mildly irritating and your wife is being heavily dramatic, I've no idea! That's why I asked for examples - what would you say was the worst behaviour they've shown, the thing that's upset her most?

Are you and your wife from very different backgrounds/cultures? Again, it's difficult to work out, without more information, whether your wife is being oversensitive or whether your parents are being horrible to her. Were you, for instance, brought up to believe that women should obey their husbands and 'respect' (ie never disagree with and always submit to) their inlaws?

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 00:44:46

I remember your last thread , many people predicted a divorce if your issue weren't resolved.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Fri 08-Aug-14 00:47:04

OP I recognised you as soon as I read your post. Congratulations on the birth of your little girl.

Can I ask, when your parents visited at the hospital, was your wife in agreement to the visit? After the lengthy thread you had before, and the lengths posters went to, to explain how things would be for your DW after she gave birth, I'm concerned that the problems you are experiencing stem from the very issue you posted about initially. Have you been supporting your DW, protecting her from the pressure/stress she feels in relation to your parents? Or have you been pushing for them both to have more contact/involvement despite how that seems to impact/affect your DW?

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 00:53:45

Among other things, do you think a few photos of your baby in your old home are worth a relationship break up?

I don't think I have followed your previous thread, but if your wife is the one who treats you with love, consideration and respect, then stick by her and stick up for yourself and detach from your parents.
They speak before they think because they think know they can get away with it with you.
If they are emotionally abusive, you're not losing much and you are protecting your children.

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 00:56:29

Sinbad your wife does not owe your parents a relationship. You've never given anything more than vague examples . What actually happened between you and your dad , in what way was he out of order ? Can you give some examples of the speaking without thinking ?

You were told and told last time that unless these problems weren't resolved there was likely going to be a divorce. Tell us in detail about the email your wife sent to your mother , a your mother's response to that email.

sykadelic Fri 08-Aug-14 00:57:21

I agree with the others. We need examples to really have an idea of what's going on.

Either way, your wife has just had a baby and is still emotional. Right now she needs your support. That means keeping your parents separate from her right now.

If you want photos outside the family house before it's sold, take your wife and child WITHOUT seeing your parents.

Your wife needs to trust that you trust her opinion and have your childs best interests at heart, and this means noticing, and stopping, your parents (or anyone) when they're out of line. not excusing them "because that's just how they are". My MIL is a narcissist, that doesn't mean I need to accept her behaviour. When your wife trusts that you see your parents flaws, and trust your wife as a mother and as your wife, she may be okay with your taking your child to see your parents without her supervision. It won't be for a while though, she's still feeling very mama-bear.

mellicauli Fri 08-Aug-14 01:00:56

Your poor baby is only 9 weeks old. Whatever is happening now should be all about her and her needs. Right now she needs a loving mother and father. If you have to turn your back on your parents for a while, that's what has to happen. The family dynamic has changed now. It is no longer appropriate for you to pander to them and their destructive ways.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:06:24

Ok, so for example, yesterday I was talking to my parents about completing on a house purchase and the sale of ours. My Dad, who has been retired since his early 50s and is now very much stuck in his ways previously had experience as a bank manager and dealt with many wealthy private individuals who often would buy and sell properties. He was adamant that we should sell and complete on the same day to minimize the risk to us of something going wrong and us being left with two mortgages. I told him we have enough confidence in the situation to not to that and he was furious with me and put the phone down. This has happened a few times when I have discussed things with them if I havent taken their advice or said I would do something that would cause them stress and worry. I called them straight back, told them this behaviour was exactly what frustrates us and particularly my wife but they were still insistent that we should take their advice, or not talk to them about the matter. I came home to my wife annoyed about this, told her about it and she has taken the matter personally and using this as the latest example of how my parents wont change their ways and therefore makes it impossible for her to have a relationship with them, and therefore me.

Obviously I dont like the way my parents behave when they do these things, but I cant ignore that they are my only parents and still love them as much as I did before. Im annoyed with them, but just as any parent loves their child no matter what, I love my parents no matter what. I also love my wife no matter what. She wants me to protect her from them or not see them if they might behave like this in the future.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:11:55

I was really disappointed that my wife wouldn't go back to my parents with me but have accepted that she wouldnt be comfortable and so havent put any more pressure on her to come with me just hoped in the back of my mind that she would have a change of heart...but thats almost irrelevant now

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 01:12:14

How do you come to discuss these issues with your parents? Do you ask them for advice, or do you mention the situation and they probe so that they can advise you?
In any case you don't have to take their advice, of course. (personally I'd be inclined to agree with your dad, but advice is nothing but advice, not orders nor instructions - you can take it or leave it)

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 01:16:41

And, btw, don't push her.
If she is to change her mind, work on it slowly and lovingly with her.
She is right to protect herself, and it seems she loves you enough to want to protect you too. The last thing she needs now (and, as a consequence your baby) is stress in her life. The baby provides enough, and stress for the parents affects the children, particularly a mother (is she breastfeeding?).

On the other hand, I am getting a feeling that she may be very inflexible and intolerant, and I don't particularly like the comment by her mother and then her that you don't care about your daughter.
Have you chosen as a life partner someone who is not that dissimilar to your parents? Or maybe she is simply assertive. We don't have enough information.

lettertoherms Fri 08-Aug-14 01:18:11

Their behavior does sound manipulative and bullying.

It really boils down to the fact you need to make your wife and daughter your absolute priority. Your baby is still tiny, and right now your wife's emotional needs need to be met, for the best of your baby. I see your wife's view, that you don't care about your daughter that much, if you're not putting her needs first - not that you actually don't care, but how your actions make it appear.

The solution for saving your marriage is so simple, I don't know why you won't take it. Right now, your parents don't need to see your newborn daughter as much as your wife needs to feel secure in a vulnerable time.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:19:57

My wife was happy for my parents to visit, but not for long and her mum had to be there. It was really awkward, her mum didnt talk to my parents, and on one of the brief visits my parents have made to our house since she was born, my mil was at the house but sat in a spare room whilst my parents visited as she couldnt face seeing them in case she said something to them about how my mum has upset her daughter in the past. My brother and his family have also come to visit from a long distance away. Shortly before our daughter was born, my brother who has never got over the death of our grandma wanted us to refer to my parents as someone other than grandma and grandad for fear of upsetting him. it really was a daft situation that has been sorted now, but again the mil was there when they visited but because she again couldnt trust herself to say something out of turn, again sat in the spare room on her own for 4 hours!

I have supported my wife in allowing her to dictate who visits and when, but the balance of her mum being with us and my parents visiting is so far apart its become a bit silly. Never for one second do i begrudge her mum spending time with out daughter, but i would hope that I could share some of that joy she has with her mum, with my parents.

" he was furious with me and put the phone down. This has happened a few times when I have discussed things with them if I havent taken their advice or said I would do something that would cause them stress and worry. I called them straight back, told them this behaviour was exactly what frustrates us and particularly my wife but they were still insistent that we should take their advice, or not talk to them about the matter."
So, to re-word this, your parents attempt to control your life? And when you don't do what you're told, they get angry and say that they'd rather know nothing (or put another way, withdraw affection).

I have to ask, how often do they tell you what to do? And what percentage of the time do you do as you're told, ditto not do as you're told?

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 01:24:25

i would hope that I could share some of that joy she has with her mum, with my parents.

You have to accept that it won't happen. Your parents don't seem to do joy particularly well.

lettertoherms Fri 08-Aug-14 01:27:08

It's not silly, it doesn't have to be balanced. From your wife's point of view, she wants her mother there in this stressful, vulnerable time, as her mother is someone she trusts completely, someone who has raised her, changed her nappies, taken care of her when she was ill, etc. It's entirely different to have your own mother there when you're bleeding, have your tits out every other minute, are weeping from hormones and exhaustion and all the other glamours of the first months with a baby than someone else's mother, who you've only known as an adult and have reason to be wary of/have your guard up around, has form for upsetting you, and judging by your example, won't respect your choices.

TheAwfulDaughter Fri 08-Aug-14 01:27:40

But she can't share that joy with them BECAUSE of how your parents are. She's not doing it out of malice. Why should your wife, 9 weeks after giving birth, fake a smile provide your parents with joy when you agree that they are manipulative and try and control both of your lives?

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:33:54

Knowing what you know about the fragile relationship between your wife and your parents , why on earth did you go home and effectively whinge to your wife about this phone call ? If it was resolved , why repeat it ? And for what it's worth I have always sold and completed on the same day , I think it's madness not to.

It's worth examining your own role in this. It sounds like your wife's pregnancy was full of conflict about your parents , your baby is now two months old and there's still conflict. You did something similar when your wife was pregnant in that you had called your parents about a non event , then informed your wife that you had done so. She was understandably annoyed , and I don't think this incident is much different.

You have created this latest drama by relaying the phone call. You know how your wife feels about them and I really can't see what you were hoping to achieve by relaying the details of that call. Of course they sound unreasonable putting the phone down , but you are equally unreasonable for relaying it. Did it even need to be mentioned ?

You strike me as someone who goes back and forth between your wife and your parents relaying negative stuff. Your insistence that your wife suffer a visit from them after recently giving birth was conflict that was avoidable. It seems you enjoy the drama of wife versus parents , seeing yourself as some poor dutiful son caught in the middle. As stated on your previous thread , I think your wife will resolve this with a divorce eventually.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:36:56

This might help you all understand the situation better. Here is the email my wife sent to my mother and the responses:

Dear *,

I am writing to you as I appreciate your call the other day, but on reflection, I felt I should have been more honest with you yet felt too uncomfortable to do so.

The reasons why I don’t respond to your text messages and telephone calls is quite frankly because we don’t get on, and I certainly think you’d agree with me. I feel so hurt by the many actions you have done and comments you have said over the past ten years, to me and also to * and I. Over time, I have felt increasingly uncomfortable being in your presence and this has led to * and I seeing you infrequently, which will continue for the foreseeable future unless things change.

I am finding it incredibly difficult to be around you, as I feel you have never embraced the fact that from day one you were potentially and did gain a daughter-in-law, but instead, endeavoured to emphasise that * is your son, as opposed to welcoming me into your family.

I recall the very early days when I met you and you informed me that you did not get on well with your own mother-in-law and did not wish this for me, yet here we are ten years down the line and I could recount the numerous insulting comments you have made and the manipulative actions you have carried out towards * and I, but it won’t achieve anything as what is done is done.

It really is so very sad that we have such a poor relationship as I do witness some fantastic mother and daughter in law relationships and can’t help but feel envious that I am missing out. Yet I have endeavoured for many years to tolerate your behaviour towards me and * and I, yet at times it has become too much, not just for me, but for both of us which is why we do not involve you in our lives as much as we could do.

I wish to emphasise that I feel very comfortable and at ease around * and appreciate his welcoming manner.

I do not expect a response from you as I have learnt that you often ‘bury your head in the sand’ as opposed to discussing and resolving problems. It is with a heavy heart I have chosen to write to you, but at the end of the day, I have my whole life ahead of me to enjoy, however, this has been making me so miserable for far too long that I don’t feel as though I deserve to bare this burden. Whether it makes our relationship better or worse, I need to let go of this all this hurt that is festering inside me by letting you know.

So here is the email my mother sent to my wife in reply:

Dear *,

I was absolutely devastated and very upset to receive your email. I am more than aware that the relationship between us is not where either of us would want it to be and whilst your email is difficult to read I am pleased that you have felt able to tell me how you feel.

I too wish for a good relationship between us- I was beginning to feel more recently that we were growing a bit closer- but clearly that was not the case. There is no reason why this cannot happen, but as you rightly say, we need to clear the air of any misunderstandings, draw a line and move on with effort from both sides to make this happen.

Whilst I have always said that I did not have a good relationship with my first mother in law- I was only married for 18 months to her son before he decided the grass was greener somewhere else- my relationship with mother for the 25 years that I knew her, was second to none and we were extremely close for all of that time. I always had full respect for her as mother and she had respect for me as his wife. This is what I hoped I would have, and truly want to have, with you.

I too have spent the last 10 years desperately trying to build a relationship with you.

However, quite frankly- and I do think honesty is important at this stage- it has been 10 years of walking on eggshells, being afraid to say the wrong thing, to ensure that the smallest comment, no matter how well intentioned, could be misconstrued or misunderstood- and thereby cause a problem. We are all individuals and we are all entitled to our opinions and views on situations but, at the end of the day, I would hope that we can all respect any difference of opinion and make our own decisions.

As a mother yourself now, you will now be experiencing the closeness that both and I have had with **. Being faced with * health dilemma at such an early age and to live constantly with that situation, without any warning or doctors who truly could not tell us what to expect or how best to deal with his problems deepened this relationship beyond even our own expectations. At times we have had to deal with things the best way we could, maybe in hindsight we could have handled things differently, but I think you would agree that hasn’t turned out too badly!

I have learnt to try and take a wider view of situations and that is how I deal with things. Since you and have been together, we appreciate that you have taken over the mantle of dealing with condition. We know that this is something that you wanted to do as his partner and continue to do now as his wife and it always feels awkward saying thank you for your help supporting him and his condition (which we also know is a challenge sometimes of his own making!) but as you will appreciate, as parents, we are always there to help and share the load in whichever way we can. If we can support you more just by talking then we are more than happy to do that. As parents, the worry never goes away either or gets any easier.

Both and I have always done our best to embrace you both in all that you do, and continue to encourage and support, but equally, you need to try and talk openly to us too, like this, avoiding * (there is no need for us to talk through him) so we all know where we stand and to avoid any further misunderstandings.

For the sake of all 3 of you, we need to ensure we have a good open and respectful relationship and there is no reason, with honesty and openness on both sides, why this cannot happen.

We all have the rest of our lives ahead of us and there is no reason for any of us to bear this burden.

I hope that, by putting all our feelings down in writing, it will help both you and I to start to understand each other a bit better and move forward to start to get to know each other a bit better and develop the relationship that I know we both really want to have.

I had intended to call you today just for a chat to see how you and * are and hope we can have a catch up sometime soon.

Take care

and the email she sent following the conversation I had about her reply with my wife, who wanted me to highlight to them the fact that it is the way they speak to us without thinking first that causes her upset and worry....

Hi *,

has spoken to us this morning and we understand that the crux of the long term problem between us has stemmed from the way in which both * and I tend to react immediately to anything that you both tell us, before thinking and talking things through and subsequently arriving at a more balanced and acceptable reaction.

We can now both fully understand how our reactions in the past may have caused you distress and we can only apologise for this. Had we understood how our behaviour was upsetting you, we would have addressed this issue sooner, but now at least we have had the chance to bring this matter into the open and can move our relationships forward.

We really and truly hope we can take the next step now to forming a much closer and open relationship with you and look forward to seeing you all in the near future.

Please feel free to contact us when you feel ready. We are always here for you, and always will be.



....and my wifes response to this email:

Hi *

Just to let you know I have got your email and I will reply when ready.


simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:41:46

I couldnt agree more that I shouldnt have told my wife about the phone call. It happened just before I walked through the front door and I was annoyed with what had just happened so the frustration was written all over my face. I should have jus put it down to a bad day at work, would have been a much better choice... but life doesnt always work that way

simba86 your wife and your mother have very similar writing styles. And neither of them say anything very much at all.

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 01:52:20

Your brother visited your wife with your new born and stipulated that grandparents weren't to be called grandma and grandad as he might get upset ? Honestly , he would not have got through my front door. I do not accept that an adult cannot cope with hearing the word grandma. That was frankly ridiculous and I personally would have told him to not come.

It's interesting you refer to the issue with your brother as a bit daft , but you seem to think your mil being there was too much. The only absurd behaviour in that situation came from your brother , and yourself , for tolerating it.

thestamp Fri 08-Aug-14 01:52:26

Your parents sound dreadful and you sound childish. Why on earth do you talk to your pedantic father about something you know he will be forceful about, then argue your point with him, then PHONE HIM BACK when he hangs up on you to continue the argument (!!) THEN tell your poor dw all about it, when you already know how your parents' behaviour upsets her????

Leave it all alone. You're reaping what you've sown here I'm afraid. You and your parents are drama queens and you've finally worn dw down. It's not her fault and don't blame her for trying to keep dd away from the silliness.

BelleOfTheBorstal Fri 08-Aug-14 02:07:16

What is this condition that your mother mentions?

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 02:09:07

Why is there references to your wife managing your condition ?

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 02:18:48

it was the fact that her mother would hide away for such a long time from my family, in a relatively small house, just because she couldnt trust herself to hold her tongue to people she has hardly met previously that I found strange.

The condition I have is a cross between muscular dystrophy and diabetic type symptoms. My wife assists me by driving the car, but very little else on a daily basis apart from my bad days where she will help out more when I am bed ridden. But these are few and far between fortunately

emotionsecho Fri 08-Aug-14 02:19:42

Simba86 in your opening post you say you are an only child yet later on you describe an incident with your brother when he and his family came to visit you after the birth of your daughter.

Could you just clarify which one of those two statements is correct ?

MeMyselfAnd1 Fri 08-Aug-14 02:28:04

Well, I think the email of your wife seems rude, entitled, and childish. While your mother's seems very conciliatory. However, whatever condition you have that has made them feel they need to continue protecting you by overseeing your decisions, has created a perception on them about you that needs to be changed. You need to learn from your own mistakes and that is not going to happen if they don't let you have your own decisions (but I agree with the advice of your father about closing sale on the same day, not doing so is ABSOLUTELY bonkers!).

I think that you need to explain to your parents that you will need some time to fix your relationship and that would involve not seeing them for a while. Your wife may be in the wrong or right but you are not going to go anywhere about fixing the situation while your parents keep upsetting her even without opening their mouth.

In the same way, her mother has to feck off (but she may divorce you for that) because she is exarcerbating the feelings of your wife and making things much worse.

Personally, having been in a family dinamic much similar to yours, I can say that leaving my husband was one of the best decisions I took in my life. He was like you, I was like your wife, what annoyed me was not his overbearing mother but the fact that my husband always put her wishes before whatever we had decided as a couple and parents. Fortunately, I didn't have my mother bitching in the background, I would have totally lost the sense of perspective if she had been behaving like your MIL.

You need space as a couple as it is at this time that your parenting roles are taking shape, and having both sets of inlaws causing problems between you is not helpful at all.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 02:29:09 brother is a half brother....but we never refer to each other as a "half"! I have two half brothers, both from my fathers previous marriage

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 02:41:27

I've got to say your mother's description of "10 years of walking on eggshells, being afraid to say the wrong thing, to ensure that the smallest comment, no matter how well intentioned, could be misconstrued or misunderstood" sounds terribly sensitive and worrying. But taken in context, with your - her doting son's - depiction of her as prone to shoot her mouth off, and your story about your parents' utterly overbearing attitude to a major life decision of yours, her meaning is clear. She's trying to give your wife a guilt trip because DW doesn't appreciate domineering people shooting their mouths off whenever they feel like it. Nobody likes that, you know? It's even less likeable when the rude person then acts all hurt if their victim's got enough self respect to say "I'm not taking that!"

Your parents sound like very hard work.

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 02:46:00

I'm afraid I agree with your father, too, while despising his manner of 'advising' you.

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 02:47:42

... unless you're closing on your house first, are making a massive profit and have an emergency Plan B if your purchase falls through.

Sorry for serial posts, I'm not typinf ast enough!

SassyPants Fri 08-Aug-14 02:57:21

I think it would really help if you gave us some examples of the 'awful comments' your mum has made towards your wife, because at the moment it seems to me like your wife is being completely unreasonable, but I accept that this doesn't seem to be the consensus at all.

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 03:05:02

In all this mess, it's your DC I feel sorry for.
I really can't see any of you without fault here, although it's hard to judge without witnessing things.

My impression is that it all needs to be addressed sensitively and sensibly, withough forcing relationship but also without displays of people being there but hiding should they not be able to hold their tongues. Perhaps a full on argument might be healthier than these letters and not replying to messages. Politeness costs very little.

But don't be the twat in the middle of this. Save your wife from stress, hold your own with your parents, listen o sensible advice carefully and thank them for it (even if you decide against, but don't tell them immediately you're not taking it).

I have to say I don't see a very happy ending for all this, though. You all sound drama queens, based on hat you wrote.

Cerisier Fri 08-Aug-14 03:14:59

OP you must put your DW first now and let the air clear. She needs a lot of time and space away from your parents. I know you haven't seen them much recently but it sounds like they have been constantly in the background via phone, email and text.

I think your DM has potentially blown it, and you haven't helped by discussing private things with them knowing what their reactions would be if you ignored their advice. I am amazed it has taken your parents 10 years to realise their words and deeds have not been appreciated. They sound very arrogant.

simba86 Fri 08-Aug-14 07:04:06

Thank you memyselfand1, balanced, fair and constructive opinions which is exactly what I had hoped for

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 07:09:46

I hope you read that advice properly and not only the criticism of your wife and MIL.

tobysmum77 Fri 08-Aug-14 07:18:38

simba several times you refer to yourself as the 'child'. You are not a child. One of the biggest issues with adult offspring is that parents often continue to treat them as children if they are allowed to. Sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's less so. This needs to stop and you are the one to stop it.

I think the bottom line is if they want to see dgd they need to toe the line. Start with them popping round for an hour. Don't give me the 'they live 2 hours away so they need to stay all day' line. They either want to see her or not if they decide not, their decision. One of the hardest things is having to spend all day with ils who live miles away. Mine are generally reasonable but I still dread the whole day events at times.

Once baby is older then dw will let her out of her sight so you can decide how to play it. Perhaps you take dd to them for the day on your own.

Right now it seems everyone is behaving in much the same way, flouncing around about what they want without considering others. I include you in this - a picture in a house - really???

Quitelikely Fri 08-Aug-14 07:20:01

Well I quite like the email from your mother tbh. It just goes to show that things aren't always as they seem.

I know folk on here will say stand by your wife etc but I would not let anyone give me an ultimatum like that.

Also I think the contact she is allowing with your dd is pathetic. They pose no risk to that baby. She's just using it as a power thing.

I don't see the problem with her going no contact but you and dd staying in touch.

If I get flamed then so be it.

Quitelikely Fri 08-Aug-14 07:20:53

And her mother staying upstairs for four hours! Who's being precious now!

TaliZorahVasNormandy Fri 08-Aug-14 07:35:54

I think you really need to stop telling your wife about all the annoying and overbearing stuff your parents have said. Your DW is vulnerable right now and not the biggest fan of your parents, but you keep making it worse, then she tells her DM, so now your DW and MIL have a coloured view of your parents.

Dont push your DW into wanting a relationship with them, you really need to tell your parents to think before they speak.

If you dont reign them in, then you'll lose your family, and that family is your DW and DD.

OnlyWantsOne Fri 08-Aug-14 07:42:22

Is your wife depressed / suffering from anxiety?

Seriously, if she isn't - if she is fine, then she is just being a complete control freak. Has she ever had a job / situation where she has had to put up with people and be polite? No wonder she is like this if her own mother thinks it's acceptable to sit in the spare room rather than say hello to your parents. How utterly rude.

Take your baby and take those precious photos in your family home. Clearly your wife can take the Child off to a hotel and do what she wants?

larrygrylls Fri 08-Aug-14 07:46:09

It sounds as if you are torn between your wife's and parents' demands. Why should your wife determine access to both of your child. We're you to split up, you could see your parents with your daughter whenever you had access. I think you have equal say to your wife where you go and who is in your house. To me, your wife sounds dictatorial.

Badvoc123 Fri 08-Aug-14 07:46:18

You sound like you are loving the drama tbh.
Grow up.

aprilanne Fri 08-Aug-14 07:53:02

well op .i think your wife is being ridicoulous .this is your baby too .my pils are just the worsed ever to me .they live near us .they detest me but i can assure the feeling is mutual .they don,t even care about my hubby,s illness or such like .my mother died last year and his cow of a mother did,nt even acknowledge it .but her,s the thing they are good grandparents to my 3 son,s .i have never stopped my hubby taking the children to them .personally i would not bring myself to there level .

JuanFernandezTitTyrant Fri 08-Aug-14 07:54:13

I don't think any of you are covering yourself in glory here. I'm going to make some allowances for your DW because she has just given birth and also I know myself how extremely wearing it is being married to a precious only who can't draw proper boundaries for his over-involved parents. However, I would never, ever let my petty annoyances get in the way of my PIL seeing my DS. The PP is right about your DW using this as a power thing. She may well feel protective and vulnerable but there is absolutely nothing here that suggests that your parents wouldn't be loving and proud grandparents.

The tone of your wife's email is very telling. It seems to be all about her feelings and what she feels they have "done to her" without any willingness to accept any responsibility for the situation. And I feel that by saying "we" all the time she is speaking for you and I'm not sure that you would agree with all of her sentiments. Your mother's email is much more balanced and seems at odds with your description of their manipulative behaviour.

I'm afraid I suspect that the biggest problem here is a brittle daughter in law being enabled and egged on by her mother.

LEMmingaround Fri 08-Aug-14 08:02:51

Seems to me that this is very straightforward. You make a choice. You put your wife and child before your parents or you lose them.

Tbh it sounds like you are being bullied by your parents AND your wife.

OnlyWantsOne Fri 08-Aug-14 08:08:56

After reading through your emails - your wife sounds like a rude spoilt petulant child. Your mum seems calmer and at least respectful.

I've had a horrendous MIL who tried to encourage me to have an abortion with my 1st baby... who then went on to tell me when her son broke my ribs and smashed my hand that I must have some more respect for how stressed he is...

sunbathe Fri 08-Aug-14 08:12:32

I wonder what your wife would say, if she were on MN?

Lweji Fri 08-Aug-14 08:26:12

As I mentioned earlier, it is hard to separate the waters here because based on what you wrote everyone seems unreasonable.
The question is what to do about it?
As it's you who are asking, I think it may be worth to show some backbone and stand up for your parents and stop running things by them, but also to appreciate (but take or leave) when they do advise. It pays to listen to people.
Also truly listen to your wife so that she feels valued, but you may need to tell her that while you respect her feelings you are not prepared to completely cut your parents from your life (but don't take excessive drama to her).
If you stand to lose a family, so does she. And se stands to lose what control she has about where her baby goes or does. Be clear about that possibility if you are backed onto a wall.
I think some relationship counselling (and possibly individual) would be worth, so that you have an impartial view point and a safe place to talk things over.

A possibility would be for her to read the thread, but he may not be happy with how you portray her and her mother.

TheHouseatWhoCorner Fri 08-Aug-14 08:29:28

It sounds to me like a power struggle between your parents and your wife over who has control of you.

But I think you need to concentrate on your wife and DD for the short term, and tell her you are doing so. But also make it clear that you will need to address the situation before, say, Christmas.

In themeanyimre, keep in touch with your parents by phone, photos and Skype.

HumblePieMonster Fri 08-Aug-14 09:20:31

OP, your daughter is not a possession. You cannot just take her away from your wife, who gave birth to her, so that your mother can play with the baby or so that you can have photographs taken with the baby in your old home.

Your family unit now is you, your wife, your daughter. Your parents, like all grandparents, are peripheral. They take part when it is comfortable for you and your wife for them to do so. They are not in charge of anything. They cannot make demands (they can try, but you must not give in to them) or impose conditions.

Support your wife until she is confident enough to be with your daughter and your parents. Do not expect your wife to hand over the child she grew in her body to people she is not at ease with.

Your role is to protect your wife and help her raise your child. Your parents must take a back seat now, and you must make sure they do.

Quitelikely Fri 08-Aug-14 09:32:22

Honestly I have got three dcs I would be devastated if they refused to let me see my GC just because their dp didn't like me. There seems to be a sea of thought on MN that parents don't actually matter that much and if they piss you off you should cut them out. They do matter, they are important and offer a vital role within the family unit IMO. Obviously there are cases where NC is necessary but IMO that should be as a last resort and also it doesn't mean that the child needs to go NC just their partner if he/she doesn't like the in laws.

I feel that is the case here.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 09:33:57

Hi Simba -- I was on your previous really long thread and remember your parents and wife had daggers drawn then too. Congratulations on the birth of your daughter. Hope all went well. It looks as if you managed to find some way to do as your wife wanted wrt visiting in the hospital, and you got over your desire to have a Simba moment, etc.. All good.

However, it looks as if the merry go round continues, with the same basic issues cropping up -- you are letting your parents treat you as a child and you are behaving as a child towards them. (Your half brother also expected his feelings to be pandered to, unreasonably, by you and your wife.)

Would you say people in your family are unable to judge the social and emotional content of situations?
Would you say they tend to be very wrapped up in their own little dramas most of the time, and seem unaware of how ott or unreasonable they appear to others?
Would you say there is some sort of dynamic going on in your family where everyone expects to be judged by their intentions and not what they actually do or say?
(Because that is what your mother effectively asked your wife to do in her email.)

I don't want to refer to your last thread too much, but here in this one and in the previous one you were unable to provide much by way of concrete examples of your parents' treatment of your wife and yourself that make your wife so completely unable to suffer their presence at this point in her life.

You do hint at things your parents have said, 'thoughtlessly', so it seems to me you agree to some extent with your wife's assessment of how things have been. What are those things? Do you understand where your wife is coming from here? Do you understand that ten years of thoughtlessness is a lot to ask someone to take? What serious efforts have you made over those years to make your parents 'think'?

It's possible your wife is being totally precious, is being encouraged by her mother to fight with her MIL, or has some 'ILs Are Bad' script in her head that she is acting out regardless of reality -- you don't seem to hold this theory however, or to have observed any tendency towards irrational hatred of your parents, or towards fighting just because she believes this is what happens between ILs and DILs.

For your part, you seem to take pride in putting out fires. You dealt with the half brother's silly idea. You called your dad back and told him off. But you haven't managed to draw enough of a boundary between them and you (and your wife) to make your wife feel secure in the knowledge that she comes first with you.

This is partly because you keep on trying to involve them in your life on an equal basis with the involvement your wife's mother has with you, regardless of how upsetting the run-ins with your 'thoughtless' parents are even for you, but especially regardless of your wife's level of upset with their foot in mouth problem.

You continue the ambivalence by pointing out how rude your MIL is to sit in the spare room for four hours while your parents visit, and you are sore on behalf of your parents that they could only peek at your sleeping daughter through the dining room door. You are keeping a running score of hours spent visiting, MIL vs Parents -- and you seem to see it as a score, and to feel that your side is losing.

So maybe it is not surprising that your wife wonders whose side you are on, and has now presented you with a stark choice?

Iirc, this is not the first time she has done this, however. There is a really horrible communication problem going on between the two of you. The evidence is the ultimatum, and also the fact that this is your second thread with exactly the same problem cropping up again. You need to go to relationship counselling to learn how to listen and take each other's feelings seriously.

You as an individual also need to go to counselling about your relationship with your parents and to figure out why you are so determined to ignore the emotional content of this situation with your wife and your parents, and why you instead go about trying to put out fires, smooth things over, and in the end have things your own way -- in this case, what you really want is to go to take photos with your daughter in your childhood home. You need to understand why your wife is so angry with you for having no real sense of vision for you and her and your own little family -- why you won't make a stand against your parents and in favour of her in other words, and deal with the ongoing and very serious problem -- and want to either ignore what is going on with your wife and your mother, or try to make the storm abate just long enough for you to accomplish the short term goal you have of taking photos with your DD in the old house.

Think back to the last weeks of your wife's pregnancy -- you were fixated on presenting your baby to your parents in the waiting room as soon as she was delivered (or as near as dammit) and you were not facing the reality of any of your wife's concerns about having your mother breathing down her neck in the hospital or having the baby taken from her and out to see your parents, etc.

This is almost exactly the same issue. In fact, change some of the scenery and you have an identical problem.

The only person you can change or control in this situation is you. Remaining the same, maintaining the same unhealthy relationship habits with your parents and your wife, and yet hoping for a different outcome is madness. Sure, you will extract a compromise here and there -- you may yet manage to take photos with your baby at your old home for instance -- but the basic issue remains. You keep on lurching back into the same crisis here because you have not decided which direction you should be going in.

JenniferJo Fri 08-Aug-14 09:35:39

Your wife sounds a bit of a control freak to me. As does her mother.

The baby is yours as much as hers and if you want to take DC to see your parents then you should be able to do so.

CherryEarrings Fri 08-Aug-14 09:56:14

Well, this thread is going the way of the last one, because Simba did not reveal until the end of that one, that his DW is violent towards him.

The fact that she punches, kicks and in one instance threw an iron at his head is yet again being left out of the mix.

This whole situation is totally unfathomable.

EarthWindFire Fri 08-Aug-14 10:01:12

If the wife is violent then OP needs to leave pure and simple. There is no excuse for that at all!

OnlyWantsOne Fri 08-Aug-14 10:12:32

urgh. OP why didnt you mention this?

SpecialAgentFreyPie Fri 08-Aug-14 10:22:35

Oh, if only it was appropriate to mention past threads and manipulative OP's.....

Quitelikely Fri 08-Aug-14 10:27:48

The fact that she punches, kicks and in one instance threw an iron at his head is yet again being left out of the mix.

Do your parents know about this?

CherryEarrings Fri 08-Aug-14 10:31:00

I don't care if it's not the done thing to mention previous threads.

This particular thread is a waste of posters time without one very relevant piece of information, just like the last one.

lettertoherms Fri 08-Aug-14 10:33:44


OP, if your wife is violent toward you you need to get out.

whatnownora Fri 08-Aug-14 10:35:34

Tbh I think you and your DW would do well to tell both sets of parents to back off and let you become a family unit .

There's lots of point scoring and manipulation on both sides of this the only way through is together as a family sit down with you wife and discuss it an equal time out from both parents

It may be worth pointing out the hurtful things her mother has said to you which are neither helpful or well intentioned and that's why the timeout should apply to both sets of parents

Then see how you both feel

MorrisZapp Fri 08-Aug-14 10:42:13

I was going to say this thread is pointless without examples of the things your parents say without thinking first.

But if violence is involved, then why did you say your lives are settled?

bleedingheart Fri 08-Aug-14 10:58:52

I didn't know about the violence. Bloody hell. I thought your wife sounded like she was controlling and trying to isolate you from your parents and wondered what terrible behaviour I had missed, a disagreement over a house sale (your dad was right btw if a bit hotheaded in sentiment) doesn't seem enough to go no contact. I don't know why they had to be on the ward with you when she had the baby. I love my ILs and wouldn't have wanted that but visiting two days after birth if all is well isn't horrendous.

Your MIL hiding in the spare room is bloody ridiculous. Could she not just go out? I couldn't cope with such drama junkies.

PizzaMama Fri 08-Aug-14 11:10:18

I'm confused? (which isn't hard smile)

I am an only child who has a close relationship with both my parents.

My brother and his family have also come to visit from a long distance away.

I'm wondering what your parents are like with your brothers partner (I'm assuming he didn't come alone as you said he came with his family)??

PizzaMama Fri 08-Aug-14 11:19:34

^^^Ignore! Must read through the full thread before posting! blush

Heels99 Fri 08-Aug-14 11:30:50

Call relate. You all need help.

Annarose2014 Fri 08-Aug-14 11:32:32

I couldn't hack having my MIL there constantly. And her saying you were a crap father after only a few weeks??? And your wife readily agreeing?

I do give you credit for one thing, OP. You are really trying to figure this out. You keep coming on here and asking the opinion of complete strangers who are not known to hold back. But it seems to me that your wife is not trying to figure it out to the same extent, as she is basically saying what she is saying all along "I never want any of us to see your parents ever again" And that is crazy - she can go no contact if she likes, but they don't sound like monsters, by any means. Why deprive the child of her grandparents? Why deprive you of your parents?

Meanwhile, you are deluding yourself if you think that your basica family unit consists of you, your wife and your child. Cos theres FOUR of you - your wife, your child, you and your mother in law.

And I have zero doubt sadly that she would choose her mother over you. I do honestly believe that you would ultimately cut your family out (for a while at least) if it meant your wife stopped freaking out. But I don't think there's the slightest chance of her curtailing her mums visits even a bit. And her mum is being a very negative influence - bitching about you and your parents, and hiding in rooms like a sulky teenager.

I also wonder about what the alternative universe would look like if you did go no contact, or if your parents just upped and moved to Australia or something. I strongly suspect that your wife would still find reasons to freak out at you, and her mother would still be sat there day after day dripping poison in her ear.

And you would be back here utterly confounded as to how to "solve" it. It seems like there is only one of you trying to solve it.

Honestly, allowing a five minute visit where they were allowed to look at the baby through a glass door?? Having her mother there as a guard dog??

And the only reason for all of this is that your parents are blunt? It all seems a bit unbalanced!

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 11:34:35

Simba did not reveal until the end of that one, that his DW is violent towards him.

shock That changes rather a lot, doesn't it?!

Catzeyess Fri 08-Aug-14 11:40:22

Having read this post and some of your others I actually feel quite sorry for you, you are between and rock and hard place.

If I'm being honest I think both your wife and parents are being unreasonable. Your wife frankly sounds quite over-sensitive and into herself and her feelings, and not willing to accept her part in the break down of the relationship. And your mum comes across as though she doesn't respect your wife's position in your life and although your mum says she is sorry for her behaviour I don't think she has actually made and effort to change it to make things a little smoother, the comment about walking on eggshells suggests to me that she feels she has an intrinsic right to comment on how you and your wife conduct your affairs (and your dad suggests this too with his comments to you) and is not willing to relinquish 'control' for want of a better word. Their advice sounds like it is not requested or called for and they need to back off.

Your mother in law sounds like she is behaving dreadfully over the top if she cannot bare to be in the same room as your parents. I am struggling to see what your parents have done that is dreadful enough to warrent this behaviour.

This situation should never have been allowed to get this far, it sounds like you need to hit the reset button on all sides as 10 years of resentment has been allowed to build up.

Unless your wife and parents can try and hit the reset button and both have some grace to forgive and attempt a civil relationship I think the only thing you can do is pick between them. Either you support your wife in non-contact 100% and do things completely on her terms or you split up and in your contact time your parents can see your daughter as much as you/they like.

It's a horrible sotuati

Catzeyess Fri 08-Aug-14 11:41:43

It's a horrible situation to be in, but ultimately you can't control either your mum or wife and need to stop trying to mediate as it's clearly not working.

Guiltypleasures001 Fri 08-Aug-14 12:04:46

Hi op

I think your mother in law needs to but out more and leave the house when you have visitors.

I think you have married your mother somewhat and are at the mercy of a domineering woman and her mother.

It's your child too and if you want to take her out them do so, your being cowed by everyone on both sides. Don't tell your dad any big decisions only after they are completed, and tell him any failures are yours to bare and not his. I think you need to grow a pair with your wife her mother and your family.

Good luck

OnlyWantsOne Fri 08-Aug-14 12:10:58

If the op was a woman posting on here with a young baby and a violent partner... who was banning her from visiting her parents, would you be so ready to tell them to just get on with it and grow a pair ?

Relate probably won't see you if there is violence imo.

Make your wife leave. Keep the baby with you. She can have supervised access. Sort out a good relationship with your mother. Get some real life support. This is what posters would be saying if you were a woman.

Catzeyess Fri 08-Aug-14 12:13:41

Actually I revise what I said, you basically are stuck between two strong willed women, tell them you are not getting involved in either of their dramas and concentrated on being a good dad, husband and son.

Tell your wife she can never see your parents again if she likes but she cannot prevent access to dd

Tell your mum and dad to back off with advice etc and just don't engage with them or tell your wife of the conversations just respond non-commitally to their advice and do what you want.

I feel sorry for you and I hope it works out

Catzeyess Fri 08-Aug-14 12:14:54

Unless your wife is being violent (I didn't see that bit) then I think you need to get the hell out of there and focus on being a good dad

Catzeyess Fri 08-Aug-14 12:18:14

Sorry for the millions of posts. Really hope you can sort out situation thanks

flappityfanjos Fri 08-Aug-14 12:23:02

Violence from the wife changes everything. Everything she's done as reported here could either be the actions of a terrified woman or a deeply controlling one.

Basically, someone here is behaving worse than the OP has described. Either the parents are, and the wife is trying to protect herself and her baby from abuse; or the wife is abusively attempting to isolate the OP from his parents.

OP, if you don't give us the facts, your thread isn't going to help you very much.

HumblePieMonster Fri 08-Aug-14 12:28:28

Maybe the wife and baby need to get away from the rest of them.

AWombWithoutARoof Fri 08-Aug-14 12:29:26

Bloody hell, what a bizarre situation.

Reading the thread, just before I got to the violence bit, I was still totally unclear as to exactly how the mother and DIL were upsetting each other.

Then I came to the conclusion that maybe both were drama queens who were loving the idea of being queen bee in the life of the manchild with a medical condition.

Now I'm wondering whether actually the mother is actually rather normal, and behaves strangely (tactless etc) around her DIL because the DIL is unhinged.

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg Fri 08-Aug-14 12:33:46

Hang on Simba. This is just like your previous thread, with slightly changed details and the drip feed of violence and few specifics. Did you actually read the last, 1000 post iirc, thread?

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg Fri 08-Aug-14 12:33:52

Hang on Simba. This is just like your previous thread, with slightly changed details and the drip feed of violence and few specifics. Did you actually read the last, 1000 post iirc, thread?

BranchingOut Fri 08-Aug-14 12:48:53

I can't make head nor tail of this.

My only thoughts are:

You need to calm down on the drama - no emails, don't phone people, don't tell people the details of conversations you have had with other people.

Focus on your baby, your wife and, presumably, your job.

Put your baby's needs right at the top of the list. She is 9 weeks old and should be bonding with your wife and with you, together. It is 100% natural for your wife to not want to let her out of her sight. If you can't go somewhere together eg. your parents' house, then you have to accept that you can't go full-stop. Long journeys in the car are not the best thing for her either.

Oh and calm down, again.

EarthWindFire Fri 08-Aug-14 12:57:50

If the op was a woman posting on here with a young baby and a violent partner... who was banning her from visiting her parents, would you be so ready to tell them to just get on with it and grow a pair ?

I agree. Everyone would be telling them to take the baby and run for the hills.

oldgrandmama Fri 08-Aug-14 13:08:16

I am actually worried about the baby. If OP is telling the truth and his wife is violent in the way he describes, then I'd be very worried for the baby's safety. Sounds as though the wife has a very short fuse. Perhaps he should concentrate more on this that what seems to me a very involved, incoherent and - yes, as other posters have remarked - rather 'drama queens' feud between wife, her mother and OP's parents. To me, that's the lesser problem, albeit a distressing one. But the baby's safety, given the volatile nature of the mother, is another matter.

If I hadn't read about OP's wife's violence, then of course I wouldn't dream of relegating OP's wife v. ILs problems to second place.

Twinklestein Fri 08-Aug-14 13:09:03

OP, I've just read your other thread. Posters here need to read this post of yours to understand your current situation fully:

The posts have worked almost like therapy for me thereafter in allowing me to express my concerns that I have regarding my wife’s behaviour, and particularly now that we have a baby on the way...

There have been several questioned asked asking for more specifics, so let me cover a few. I don’t really want to divulge too much for my own identity sake (I trust you can appreciate this), but appreciate why these questions have been asked.

How, why and when did she “hurt you physically” – there have been a number of occasions. All of them boil down to the fact that she has not been able to cope with a difficult situation, be that at work, personal life, things I have done that haven’t pleased her (nothing catastrophic btw, just general relationship ups and downs). But what she has learnt, and I have let her, ultimately down to me not wanting to live my life without her, is that she can take out her anger on her loved ones, without too many repercussions. I say this because whilst she has never been physically abusive to her Mum, the things she has said to her are unbelievably horrible and distasteful. But she knows that we will always be there for her, and we will be because we love her.

Hurt me physically – examples include punching, kicking, using objects to hit me with, throwing an iron at my head. The other day she knocked me over with an open car door….something she knew would happen if she reversed as she did….outside of my place of work.

Irrational driving – in addition to the above, she once decided to stop on the slip road down to a motorway. Not on the hard shoulder, on the road, because she was angry with a situation in her life at the time. It was on a complete blind spot for people driving down that road and the only reason we weren’t hit was to this day a blessing from god. More worrying though, not long ago, she again got angry and decided to drive through a red light, weave in and out of cars before pulling over and demanding I get out of the car. It was this incident which lead me to going to the doctors about her behaviour. She was 20 weeks or so pregnant at this time. It was one of the hardest choices had to make as I was unsure of what the consequences could be for all of us. The GP has supported her by arranging counselling and to help her with her very occasional suicidal thoughts... I haven’t told the full details of what goes on to my parents. Only my closest friends, who I mentioned in an earlier post have been unbelievably supportive although desperately trying to see that I shouldn’t be putting up with behaviour like this. I wouldn’t tell my parents for the fear of what they would do or say, although they know she can be irrational at times they have no idea of the full extend to this

And before you say “Why on earth are you still with your wife”, or “Why do you tolerate such behaviour”…. I want you to know that if I was reading somebody else saying these things….I would be asking the same questions.

Until you walk in these shoes it’s impossible to understand. I love my wife so dearly that I cannot imagine my life without her…and now our baby. I have tolerated this behaviour because I know that she has a Jekyll & Hyde character. Our highs are unbelievable, and our lows ridiculous to anyone from the outside. I have often wondered if the grass is greener elsewhere.

But I fear now that my baby could be put in a situation I would not dream of wanting someone close to me to be in. Maybe I am worrying about something that won’t happen, but after 10 years and many milestones which I would hope would help get rid of Jekyll, or Hyde (I never know which is the bad one!) it hasn’t happened yet.

The line I have for my wife to cross before I think what she has done is unreasonable has been pretty far out of my eyesight, but now the baby is involved, I am instinctively feeling that line is hurtling towards me. And that is a really scary thought when implications of this are considered.

Twinklestein Fri 08-Aug-14 13:12:24

OP you need to call this number for men who are victims of dv:

0808 8010327

You also need to go and speak to your GP about your wife's behaviour, because there are child protection issues.

And you need to call 101 and talk to the police about this.

I know this is scary, but you have to do this for the sake of the baby.

It's sounds as if your wife is not mentally well, and she needs help before she hurts you and the baby.

oldgrandmama Fri 08-Aug-14 13:16:30

What Twinklestein just said ^ OP's wife sounds dangerous.

EarthWindFire Fri 08-Aug-14 13:25:54

I agree with the above posters. You need to get yourself and your baby to safety.

wellcoveredsparerib Fri 08-Aug-14 13:51:17

Before I read about your previous post I thought your wife sounded controlling and very self absorbed. After reading the extracts on here from your other thread, I think she sounds dangerous. Is she getting any treatment via GP yet, or just on a waiting list. There is a child protection issue given her extreme behaviour when under stress. You need to act to ensure your child is protected.

flappityfanjos Fri 08-Aug-14 14:14:02

Christ, OP, that quoted post is scary. You are being abused. And in fact we can understand, because the way you say you feel - you love her, you can't imagine life without her - is EXACTLY what abused people say all the time here in Relationships. It's practically a script. It's what happens when someone is conditioned for years to accept the abusive partner's behaviour. It takes people time to reach the point where they can leave. But you cannot carry on living like that, not with a child. You just can't.

If she reacts with violence and dangerous driving to normal life stresses, how is she going to react when the baby screams and screams and won't stop? The calmest and most stable of us struggle with that. I am alarmed.

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg Fri 08-Aug-14 14:22:57

I honestly would recommend people read the whole of the previous thread.

HumblePieMonster Fri 08-Aug-14 15:02:23

who has that much life to spare, penguins? but its clear to me that he's a little boy with a problem - and the problem isn't his wife.
i read the previous thread when it happened, though, so i'm not being totally dismissive of your point, and don't want to be rude.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers Fri 08-Aug-14 15:45:22

It's not as easy as advising him to leave and take the baby is it? This is a 9 week old baby. He will have to prove she is unfit before getting awarded sole residence and that's not likely. OP is in a real bind.

Polyethyl Fri 08-Aug-14 16:08:53

And if they were to go through a divorce and court ordered contact - how likely is the wife to comply with that contact and hand over the baby - knowing that Simba would take the baby to see the hated MIL.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Fri 08-Aug-14 16:25:21

Op it's clear you are in a very difficult situation but leaVing things out so you get the advice you want, rather than the advice you need isn't going to help anyone.

A pp posted a DV helpline for men and I think you need to read it. You also need to speak to your gp. And you need to start putting your baby first - that means taking advice, speaking to social services and doing what they tell you wrt to safeguarding your child. This will (likely) mean the end of your marriage as I can't see your wife being happy about it, but you are a parent now. The behaviour quoted from your previous thread - how would you feel if your wife drove like that with your daughter in the car!

Your job is to keep your child safe and that has to be your concern above all others.

hellymelly Fri 08-Aug-14 16:40:24

I agree with the pp who said that your wife sounded rude and childish and your mother conciliatory in the emails. I wonder how much your wife's mother is stirring actually, as she sounds very childish herself, what grown woman in her right mind sits in a room for FOUR HOURS rather than go and chat civilly to the other Grandparents. I agree with you that your parents are being shoved out. So your Dad was a bit bossy over housing advice, hardly the crime of the century. Many Dads with a lot of experience in an area would get frustrated with their twenty something son not taking their advice. I think it is a massive over-reaction on the part of your wife. Your Wife's email to your parents sounded horribly spoilt and me me me, I realise I don't know the background, but is she really just very oversensitive? People are annoying, in-laws are annoying. I don't have a fabulous relationship with my own in-laws and I can tell you for certain that some of the things FIL has said to me would make the average person gasp with shock, but they see us ,not as much as they would if things were better but enough, and I am kind and civil to MIL. I do get hurt by it at times, but I wouldn't want my DH to not see his parents or for them to never see my daughters. Sometimes you really do have to just bite your tongue and get on with it, or find a way to sort it out as adults, which I can see your mother is genuinely trying to do. I feel sorry for your parents tbh, and I think your wife needs to grow up and bit and get some perspective.

CarryOnDancing Fri 08-Aug-14 16:45:45

Jeez OP, I read the first part of this thread wondering why on earth you couldn't let go of your mother, now I realise you need the connection with them because you are being abused.

Now it reads like your DW is trying to distance you from your parents which is part of the abuse.

I'm starting to question how genuine this is though. You've had a huge thread previously and are now just narrowing in on a tiny aspect which really is insignificant compared to the overall picture.

Why did you post? There is no small fix for this. I think your mother is actually coping very well and handling the situation as well as possible when she can see your her being abused!

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 16:48:00

I think there's something very wrong here. On your other thread many people noted your attention seeking and in particular your lack of empathy for your wife. I don't think anything's changed , whinging to your wife about that phone call wasn't necessary and I think it was a either a deliberate attempt to purposely anger your wife , or a attempt to get attention from your wife. You got both. I don't accept your that daft you didn't realize what was going to happen. I think it was a deliberate manipulation on your part.

Also in the email your wife is speaking on behalf of both of you which suggests she thinks you agree with her assessment of your parents. I suspect you go between both your mum and your wife , relaying information that is going to cause upset and agreeing with both of them.

Having been the wife in this situation , I assure you that eventually your wife will cop on to what is going on.

hellymelly Fri 08-Aug-14 16:53:13

I hadn't read the bit about violence when i posted, op I think you need proper professional help here.

chaseface Fri 08-Aug-14 16:56:04

Is that helpful ballerina? You're veering dangerously close to those people who tell a victim not to push the abuser's buttons.

It's hard to tell without examples but the wife sounds needy, unreasonable and controlling. And is that a surprise if she was brought up by a woman who thinks it's normal behaviour to lock herself away for four hours rather than make polite conversation.

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 17:11:54

I'm not veering close to anything of the sort. I don't accept Op is the victim here at all , and neither did many others on his last thread , in fact I believe being narcissistic was mentioned several times. This whole thing reeks of conquer and divide , vandalizing , provoking , and manipulating situations so he is the focus of attention. I note in particular his mum acknowledges that a lot of the problems stem from both parties talking through the Op.

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg Fri 08-Aug-14 17:15:47

My issue really is that the last thread went on for days with OP revealing quite a number of controlling behaviours himself. Then, towards the end, he suddenly revealed that his wife had been violent. This thread was going the same way.

On the last thread, the OP continually avoided explaining vague statements, and left very important information to the end. This makes him either someone who is being so terribly abused he can't see the big issues (violence, etc) from the small (taking a photo in a particular house) or someone who deliberately isn't giving us the full picture of his/his wife's behaviour (I hope this isn't the case, but it is the other possibility). In either case, he needs real life help. Not for us to talk to him for pages and pages without having proper information and possibly make a bad situation worse. That is what happened last time, and none of it seems to have really sunk in.

I would second the recommendations of real life support.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 17:37:53

I do not agree at all that the mother sounded conciliatory in the emails. She sounded like a very adept manipulator and stone waller. She also sounds like someone who does not see at all that Simba has been with this woman for ten years now. The whole walking on eggshells thing is where she tries to paint herself as a victim. The wife's email is similarly not conciliatory. It is wary and it is also weary -- as if she knows what she is saying will fall on deaf ears. Neither of these women is ready to bury the hatchet.

Basically, someone here is behaving worse than the OP has described. Either the parents are, and the wife is trying to protect herself and her baby from abuse; or the wife is abusively attempting to isolate the OP from his parents.
I agree with this, and I am going to make a suggestion that is going to get me flamed in all likelihood.

Have you ever been assessed for autism or Aspergers, Simba?
You seem unable to give cause and effect descriptions of things that happen. You focus on your own aims -- the Simba moment in the hospital and the photo op in your old home for example. You describe your MIL as 'rude'. I asked in my earlier post here whether you and members of your family are able to read the emotional content of domestic situations -- I don't think you are.

I agree with HumblePie's posts here -- 'its clear to me that he's a little boy with a problem - and the problem isn't his wife.'
I was up to my ears in the last thread and read it (slackjawed) many times and it was clear to me that there are two sides here. There was more to the last thread than just mention of the driving and the iron. It took 1000 posts but details did emerge, and perceptions, and a pattern to behaviour and perceptions on the part of Simba.

I also agree with BadBaldingBallerina's post -- 'in the email your wife is speaking on behalf of both of you which suggests she thinks you agree with her assessment of your parents. I suspect you go between both your mum and your wife , relaying information that is going to cause upset and agreeing with both of them.'

It's not victim blaming. Simba seems blithely unaware of his role in the drama that is going on here, unable to connect cause and effect when narrating, unable to provide facts or grasp and relate exactly what his wife is going on about, and unable to see that doing the same thing over and over especially in the heated atmosphere associated with the arrival of the baby -- it is reasonable to ask what is wrong with Simba and to suspect that there is more to this than he relates.

In the last thread Simba related that things were coming to a head with the arrival of the baby.

Please don't shoot me when I suggest that what is happening here is that Simba (who has been babied and cossetted and fussed over by his parents all his life to age 18 and subsequently (and pretty much immediately iirc) accepted a role of being taken care of by his wife) is having a very hard time accepting the arrival of another baby and dealing with the transition from being the focus of everyone's fighting and efforts to devote attention to being a supportive father.

The attention seeking on Simba's part, the adding of fuel to flames, was very obvious in the last thread. Imo it is also obvious here. As BadBallerina says -- what did Simba hope to gain by the retelling of the phone conversation?

I think Simba refuses to accept that his wife is genuinely serious about the grief his mother causes her and do something about it because he is on some level enjoying being the toy they are both fighting over.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 17:43:12

And as far as I remember from the last thread there was also a group of friends of his to whom he related aspects of the drama too. Almost a Greek chorus...

I know this can be painted as a case of someone being abused and unable to see it, but I see someone who is used to being the centre of attention and whose life has involved much drama related to health who is unable or unwilling to develop his personality and change his life beyond that starring role in his own movie.

FairPhyllis Fri 08-Aug-14 17:49:19

There is an abuser in this scenario, and I don't think it is the wife.

OP consistently refuses to give concrete examples of his parents' behaviour and revealed himself to be extremely controlling and unreasonable on the last thread.

I said on the last thread that I think Simba has learned the language of victimhood as a tool of control, and I think that is still the case.

I will not be fuelling this thread any more.

PenguinsHatchedAnEgg Fri 08-Aug-14 17:55:44

You have both said that better than I could and I agree.

LuluJakey1 Fri 08-Aug-14 18:07:56

All of these relationships sound a bit of a nightmare to me.

DW and her mother- bizarre. MIL hiding in bedroom for 4 hours. MIL unable to control her mouth if comes face to face with your family. DW saying distasteful, unpleasant things about how own mother and getting very angry with her. All bizarre.

You and your parents- Bizarre. Over-protective, controlling, bossy, pushy. However, your mother's letter is far more reasonable than your wife's.

You and DW- Dangerous relationship. Your wife needs mental health care. There is something wrong with her psychologically. She is emotionally and physically abusive, terribly indulged, self-centred, possibly narcissistic but certainly dangerous. LTB.

My advice would be to see a solicitor and get yourself and your daughter away from this mess.

LuluJakey1 Fri 08-Aug-14 18:09:22

Having said all of that, I don't for one second think you will take any action. I think you enjoy the drama of it. Either see it for what it is and act or shut up and get on with it.

LizzieBelle Fri 08-Aug-14 18:38:49

hang on, you say in your post you are an onlychild, then you mention your brother hmm

LuluJakey1 Fri 08-Aug-14 19:04:57

I have now read your old thread in its entirety. You did. not. listen to a word of the advice you were given then. By not. mentioning your DW's violence and abusive behaviour to you and her mother here, were you hoping for different responses?

The point is your DW is irrational, indulged and dangerous in her reactions and you allow this to continue. You don't want to hear the truth. Sometimes we do love people who are no good for us and with whom we should not be involved. Unless you have the strength to leave, you are going to spend your life in an abusive, dangerous relationship- she will keep doing it because she has learned that she can.

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 08-Aug-14 19:06:14

It's my experience that manipulators use a particular type of language. For instance Op states that his wife is blackmailing him about renovations , but doesn't give any details of the blackmail. He claims he confided in his gp about the violence but doesn't give details. Both these incidents are significant and I find the lack of detail worrying.

A husband who is actively relaying things between his wife and mother is not stuck in the middle. He's basically shit stirring .
A husband who runs his wife down to his friends is not a soul mate but an enemy. I note also , the use of victim language ie , in regards to the email SHE ALLOWED ME TO SPEAK TO MY DAD.

I have had a similar experience , I've had the in law drama , which far from being accidental is often carefully constructed. I've had a pregnancy ruined with unnecessary drama about the in laws.I've been subjected to a slander campaign that I didn't even know was occurring. I've been accused of domestic violence , and when all else fails , I've been accused of being an unfit parent. Manipulators set the scene way before the victim becomes aware of it.

Regarding the claims of domestic violence , what's actually happened here ? How likely is it that they were driving down the street and the wife suddenly flips out? What was being said before this ? Why did she want the Op out of her car ? Again manipulators are experts at baiting.

Overall manipulators are stupid. They go too far with the tall stories , and eventually people start to question these stories that make no sense. A simple conversation between Dil and mil would probably cast light on what's really going on. Same goes for a conversation between the wife and friends. This is why they work so hard to keep everyone at odds .

temporaryusername Fri 08-Aug-14 19:14:11

I can't make much sense of this or the last thread, very confusing. If your wife has been as violent as you say, then that is all you or we need to know. You must take steps to end the marriage and protect your child. Looking at the last thread I immediately wondered how your wife would cope with the stresses of a newborn, if what you said about her way of responding to stress with violence is true. Is that partly why her mother is there - to offer a large of support with the housework and the baby? Is she also 'kept in line' by your wife? It would be par for the course for an abusive/controlling spouse to want to distance you other people that care about you.

I take on board that people have picked up a lack of empathy and possible abuse on your side, but we have no direct evidence of abuse and lack of empathy is not a justification for your wife being violent. As I said, crying babies aren't known for empathy.

If the allegations of abuse, on either side, are lies or errors, then I really don't know what to make of it. Why your wife has such an issue with your parents that she will not allow them contact seems inexplicable from what little you've told us. Tactless comments are enough to make her dislike them, but not good reason to behave as she has. If there is more to it, say so.

Just going on the fragments you have told us, I am really sorry to say your relationship with your wife sounds quite co dependent and dysfunctional. If you decide to work on it, put your parents on the backburner for now and tell both them and your wife you will re-address the situation with them once you have made some progress examining the issues in your marriage. Having your MIL around all the time is unlikely to help with that.

I really think you will get most help from MN if you focus more on your relationship with your wife, aside from any issues with your wider family. To the extent that you do discuss her relationship with your parents, specific examples will help people to see what is going on. Eg. what your mother has said/done. It sounds as if they have had so little contact that I'm not sure when your parents have had time to offend your wife.

BeansieBeansieBeansie Fri 08-Aug-14 19:26:53

Does no one remember the last thread that Simba posted.

It was chilling. His wife is to be pitied.

Quitelikely Fri 08-Aug-14 19:33:43

Why is his wife to be pitied? I've not seen the other thread so now I'm foncused!

temporaryusername Fri 08-Aug-14 19:35:09

I could see on the last thread that Simba had problems getting the point or understanding his wife's position. Yes, in parts it was chilling, and I haven't had time to read it all.

Is it the case then that those of you saying his wife is to be pitied are happy to conclude that she has not been violent, or has had good reason to be? I'm not sure you'd be wrong, but I'm finding it hard to imagine a thread - even one with an unreliable narrator - where a woman says that her husband has kicked, punched, and thrown an iron at her head, and that is just ignored or justified.

BeansieBeansieBeansie Fri 08-Aug-14 19:49:22

Sorry, I did not read the full tread about her violence.

Please ignore my comment.

temporaryusername Fri 08-Aug-14 20:04:08

Simba, if your wife has kicked, punched and thrown an iron at your head, that is not part of a normal loving relationship. It isn't something you can just let be. I don't know why you don't find that something that threatens the break up of your marriage, but her issues with seeing your parents do. I can think of possible explanations at a stretch, but none that you should be happy with.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 20:14:24

The other thread is worth a read.

The wife as depicted by Simba comes across as completely psycho. Nothing she does makes sense. There's a lack of 'cause and effect' narrative. If Simba is truly miserable then why talk his wife into having a baby, why bring a baby into a home where the mother is an iron-throwing monster who allegedly does not deal well with stress? This makes me (and others) smell a rat. Either Simba is spectacularly unable to understand how people function and does not understand the dynamic between his wife and his parents, or he is stirring shit as much as possible, and trying to portray his wife as a tyrant with him playing the role of hapless victim with motives that are imo suspect.

I think the real crisis is the fact that his second mother figure -- aka wife -- now has a real baby to take care of, making Simba revert to his original mother for comfort, attention, the familiar feeling of being centre stage.

I would love to hear details about the baby -- how is feeding and sleeping, has she started smiling, laughing, any problems... I would love to hear details about how the wife's recovery is going, whether she is getting much sleep, how she is adapting to caring 24/7 for a newborn.. I ask myself when reading the two threads 'what is being left out?'

None of the progress of the first few months is automatic, or a given, for mother or baby, but it all seems to be very much in the background, and what concerns Simba once again is another effort to achieve a specific parent-related goal accompanied by the inability to appreciate that there is a serious problem between his parents and his wife.

I suspect what Simba took from MemyselfandI's post was the need to boot out the MIL. What I see in his posts about her and his parents is a tit for tat approach, scorekeeping -- 'if my parents are to be excluded then your mother can't come over either' -- which is all very well and mighty fine, but doesn't address the fundamental problem, which is 'why does Simba need his parents to the extent that he has stood by and watched his wife get to the point of spitting nails over them for ten years?' and the related 'What is Simba getting out of the spectacle of parents and wife fighting over him and how come this is more important than ensuring his baby is safe from a violent and unpredictable mother?'

The relationship is trench warfare.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 20:16:34

Temporaryusername, I hadn't read your posts at the time I hit 'post message' but I wonder if my last paragraph addresses your question?

FairPhyllis Fri 08-Aug-14 20:54:49

OK - I'm breaking my resolution here. But only once.

In the last thread Simba was trying to work out how he could use the labour and postnatal ward staff to railroad his wife into receiving his parents soon after the birth. He decided that as soon as the doctors said she was medically fit to see visitors that she would no longer have any reasonable excuse to decline visitors while she was in hospital.

VSeth Fri 08-Aug-14 20:59:58

Sorry if this is a cross post but how come the op says he is an only child then talks about his brother?

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 21:04:54

He has a half brother apparently, the son of his father.

mathanxiety Fri 08-Aug-14 21:07:13

Indeed, FairPhyllis -- using of others to railroad or as weapons against his wife and in the interest of his parents, and to serve his need to get his parents' attention, and intense focus on his own agenda.

MommyBird Fri 08-Aug-14 21:18:00

Your last thread makes me feel so sorry for your wife sad

temporaryusername Fri 08-Aug-14 22:15:42

Yes Mathanxiety, it kind of does. You are spot on with the lack of cause and effect narrative and it is very strange. I can see it all being as you say for sure, I was just hesitant because there seemed to be a possibility that Simba was going from one domineering relationship to another, possibly accepting things he shouldn't due to worries about his medical condition causing problems for his partner. If that is the case, then it seems to combine with a lack of empathy and understanding on his part (as shown on previous threads). There just seems to be so much left out, which does make me smell a rat but also made me wonder what we might be missing. You're probably right though.

All I can say is, just in case things aren't what they seem - Simba, if you are being abused please focus on that in posting, and you'll get advice here. If your relationship is better than it sounds and worth saving, then you will have to focus on that for now and explain to both wife and parents that the issues between them can wait and would be better resolved when things are on a better footing between you and your wife.

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 22:24:33

I think the real crisis is the fact that his second mother figure -- aka wife -- now has a real baby to take care of, making Simba revert to his original mother for comfort, attention, the familiar feeling of being centre stage.

This looks incredibly astute, Math.

GarlicAugustus Fri 08-Aug-14 22:47:27

Temporary, Mrs Simba can be both domineering and the injured party. The son of a demanding mother might well marry a strong-willed woman, and she's quite likely to have an opinionated mother as well. It might be second nature for Simba to 'challenge' all the female authorities in his life, using whichever methods worked with his mother, plus the tactics used by his father.

They could all cheerfully replay history down the generations if his wife and MIL responded to those strategies in the same way as his mother. It seems they don't. If Simba's attempts to get what he wants don't work on his strong-willed wife, and they can't learn how to negotiate like adults, they're going to be mostly at war and I can imagine them both throwing small appliances at one another before long.

Instead of trying to bring in his own mum as reinforcements, it would be a lot more sensible to invest in listening skills and meet his missus in the middle. Doesn't look likely to happen ... Of course I'm making a whole bunch of assumptions here, as Simba hasn't seemed able to explain things coherently. And has possibly abandoned his thread by now!

temporaryusername Fri 08-Aug-14 23:17:10

Yes, I agree totally. It was just an abundance of caution in case domineering extended to violence (I am very overcautious and risk averse!). It just seemed odd that someone can stand up to his wife to the extent of considering leaving over this parents issue, and yet be so unassertive that they tolerated physical abuse without even mentioning it till nearly the end of the other long thread! Also that no real reasons were given for this rift. So I have no idea what is true or not. Communication breakdown in all senses I suppose. It does seem we have been given an agenda rather than the full picture, or that OP just can't explain it.

Radio silence now as you say!

shitatusernames Fri 08-Aug-14 23:27:14

So after all this, and everyone that has made the time and effort to reply, simba hasn't bothered to reply.

I hope he's just too busy with everyday life etc.

zzzzz Sat 09-Aug-14 02:07:22

I agree with the poster who said that the writing style of the mother and wife's emails is very similar, but go one further and say it is very similar to OPs. hmm
It has a ponderous disengaged tone, and imparts remarkably little information.

There also seems surprisingly little talk about the baby and her effect on dw. Does she sleep through yet? Is your wife bf? How is she coping?

43percentburnt Sat 09-Aug-14 07:59:38

I have read the entire thread. There is no detail in the posts which concerns me. It's written in an emotionless flowery way. Usually posters give concrete examples, this happened then I did that etc.

Regards the violence, there is no explanation as to how incidents led to violence. Abusive partners often drive their oh to distraction then tell them they are the mad abusive crazy one.

What I do know is when I had my baby last year, the last thing on my dh mind was when visitors were coming. He was preoccupied with ensuring he could dress and change baby prior to leaving the hospital. Ensuring he knew how to check my stitches looked like they were healing properly. Ensuring I was comfy at home with food drink etc on tap. Trying to find the correct cushions for me to sit on. He certainly never mentioned that he wondering how to present our baby to his family in the hospital.

Regarding his dw feeling she is not getting help from him, maybe that is why her mother is present. If she does have depression to the extent he has been to her doctor due to suicidal thoughts then hell yes as a mother I would be with my dd at such a vulnerable time.

The iron incident, again no detail. Could be that she is extremely violent and this incident occurred because he didn't behave correctly, she could have been verbally goaded by him in some way or he could have had his hands round her neck and she picked up the nearest object...

Too little detail, is this deliberate?

EarthWindFire Sat 09-Aug-14 08:17:26

The iron incident, again no detail. Could be that she is extremely violent and this incident occurred because he didn't behave correctly, she could have been verbally goaded by him in some way or he could have had his hands round her neck and she picked up the nearest object...

Would people be saying this if the roles were reversed?

yoyo27 Sat 09-Aug-14 11:23:15

I think that you are the problem! Your parents and your wife seem to want the same things. But you are effectively being a sh*t stirrer and going to each of them with negativity and bad feeling. If you are constantly doing that then of course there are bad feelings! Step back for a while and encourage them to speak and see each other without you for a while.

MeMyselfAnd1 Sat 09-Aug-14 11:44:51

If this guy was attending counselling, he wouldn't be grilled to provide a detailed information about how the iron was thrown at him, and probably the counselour will gently ask him if he feels comfortable to talk about it and wait patiently for the guy to feel comfortable enough to open up and talk about such painful stuff.

Instead, he is here being accussed by many about not being real, of lying, drip feeding and there are quite a few people agressively demanding more detail to allow him the benefit of a comment.

If you really don't believe him, that's ok but bear in mind that whatever has happened, he is a person who has found it therapeutic to write about his feelings, that there is some painful stuff going on and who, as anyone who had being living in an unhealthy relationship, will need some time to adjust his perception of things and act on them.

So in a nutshell, be kind please :-)

zzzzz Sat 09-Aug-14 11:51:14

It is perfectly possible to be both kind and direct, and or challenging. This is NOT therapy. The people responding are NOT therapists. Suggesting that a Internet forum should be used in that way is a VERY bad idea.

GarlicAugustus Sat 09-Aug-14 13:44:43

Would people be saying this if the roles were reversed?

Yes, in the absence of context as here.

I may have missed it, but in case I didn't, here's a link to simba's previous thread.

IonaMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 09-Aug-14 15:57:42

Hi folks. Just a quick note to remind everyone that Mumsnet is primarily a site where parents can exchange advice and support. Particularly on a thread that is sensitive in its nature, please remember to keep that advice kind and civil. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines:

GarlicAugustus Sat 09-Aug-14 16:10:20

Thank you, SDTG shock sad The relationship's a disaster, isn't it?

I have no idea whether Simba's discomfiting narrative style is a symptom of self-suppression after years of abuse, or of a personality style that could easily drive an emotionally unstable partner to excessive reactions. It looks clearer than ever, though, that the dynamics between partners and both sets of parents are complex, engulfing and unhealthy.

I fear for the little girl.

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