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Ex has just come over and had a huge go at me

(200 Posts)
ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 18:50:05

Basically because I have more money than he does, and I hear what he is saying, he has around £250 disposable income a month and he hates it.

The thing is, it is NOT my fault that he only has that, it really isn't, I try and be really cool about everything and end up paying out more than half of our shared bills but he still isn't happy.

All these veiled comments about what I 'get a week' and so on. Its really difficult.

He is in a shit place, I know it and I know that it is because we have separated (before I had to deal with the how to pay for everything with no fucking money)

I can't wait until we are properly separated and he feels able to stand on his own two feet. Its shit.

whitsernam Wed 16-Jul-14 18:52:31

I have a stock line when my ex starts in about something that is not my fault, I can't fix it, etc. etc.... I say "I'm the wrong person for you to be discussing this with." Would it help you to have an answer rehearsed?

ladyblablah Wed 16-Jul-14 18:53:03

He's an ex.
Not your problem he's skint.
Entirely his.

Unless you've wiped out his bank account and stolen his family jewels of course.

It's just noise. Take no notice.

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 18:54:04

Why are you responsible for his lack of income?

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted Wed 16-Jul-14 18:57:57

If he doesn't have the amount of money to himself that he feels he "should" have then he needs to earn more.

You are not his mother.

He's an ex for a reason.

Stop putting yourself in a position where you have to hear his views about anything. Tell him that that you'll communicate with him via email only and nothing else.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 18:58:11

They are bills that we got together as part of a couple, I understand that and he has £240 a month from me towards them.

I also end up giving him more money in the month because he simply doesn't have enough to survive and I do understand that, I get that he has no other choice right now I just wish he wouldn't be such a fucking arse about it all.

I pay out so much towards debt we have racked up together but its like he is angry that I am not skint anymore. Thats how it feels.

It will be better in a year <keep repeating while rocking back and forth>

Blueuggboots Wed 16-Jul-14 19:03:37

Why are you supporting him??
He is an EX. Which means he's no longer your problem, FULL STOP!

tribpot Wed 16-Jul-14 19:05:33

I also end up giving him more money in the month because he simply doesn't have enough to survive

He never will as long as you keep bailing him out. And the cheeky bastard isn't even grateful for it!

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 19:07:05

He came over to get money from you. The quicker you get shot the better.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 19:08:42

He's an ex you say ?

Then wny are you still so involved with him, and why are you listening like a Good Little Girl to his pointless ranting ?

Some boundaries for you, I think

NatashaBee Wed 16-Jul-14 19:17:06

Do you have children with him? I really can't understand why you are giving him money to live on (paying joint debts, fair enough). He needs to find a way to reduce his living costs down or earn more. He isn't your problem, and if you keep giving him money to get to the end of the month, you are only delaying his money problems, not solving them. He will need to address them eventually.

What type of debt is it? nothing that he can run up any more, I hope - is the account frozen if it's a bank account/credit card?

Anniegetyourgun Wed 16-Jul-14 19:21:07

... and if you do have children with him, who do they live with?

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 19:24:38

They are bills we got together, he isn't getting more into debt. I do worry that he doesn't seem to realise that it is NORMAL to be in a position where you don't have much money when you are working your way up in your career, he has just clung to me for so long.

Anyway, he was a bit of an arse, actually began to tell me off for 'how I dared to speak to him' but I soon put him right. He needs to stop it because my patience with him is waining.

tribpot Wed 16-Jul-14 19:27:06

There's no need to tolerate this now. You don't have to wait for your patience to wane. Just tell him to do one.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 16-Jul-14 19:27:25

Ah... I hear the raucus cry of the cocklodger disturbed from its nest.

anyoldname76 Wed 16-Jul-14 19:30:24

Can you trust him to say the debts off? He might just be taking the money for them. I would set up a standing order as you have no proof if you're giving him cash

MaryWestmacott Wed 16-Jul-14 19:30:49

Give him what you owe, not another penny, his financial situation is not your problem, can you find a way to split the joint bills so you pay directly to who you owe rather than via him?

mineofuselessinformation Wed 16-Jul-14 19:32:23

Annie grin
STOP giving him any money that isn't towards your debts (and make sure what you do give him is traceable eg bank transfer in case of any problems.
Start practising now: 'That's not my problem'.
Avoid seeing him face to face for any reason.

JeanSeberg Wed 16-Jul-14 19:34:44

Why on earth are you paying the money to him instead of directly to the debt?

Optimist1 Wed 16-Jul-14 19:37:11

Sadly, I agree with PPs that in his current disgruntled state of mind he's quite likely to be accepting your contributions towards your joint debts but using it for other things. You need to document these payments very carefully, preferably by your payment direct to your creditors.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 19:40:00

The debts are in his name.

They come out of his account by DD every month, they are definitely being paid.

But we did get them together, I am aware of that and I am definitely committed to paying them off with him.

I also understand that his status as single bloke with low income has pushed him into near poverty whereas my status as part-time single mum has put me into a much better position and I am paying off many debts myself without his input.

He does look after the children so I can work, I wouldn't be able to do that if he didn't come and look after them so I do need to help him in this particularly crap time in his life.

I just hate the nasty crap, at least we've got it all out in the open today.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Wed 16-Jul-14 19:43:19

Annie grin

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Wed 16-Jul-14 19:44:17

I don't understand how being a single bloke is a worse off situation than a single mum?

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 19:46:47

Annie grin

Yes, the lesser-spotted cocklodger. Often to be heard squawking about how unfair life is when their source of supply is cut off. Especially down the pub with other similar breeds of cockheads.

JeanSeberg Wed 16-Jul-14 19:46:48

£250 disposable income a month is hardly near poverty.

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 19:50:52

Oh dear. Why are you subsidising him? It's not your problem.

Also, I would try to arrange alternative childcare. Depending on your income, you may be able get tax credits to help with this.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 19:52:35

I work in the cab office on weekend nights. Its good for him to see the children, I am happy with the arrangement.

It is absolutely the screams of it being 'so unfair' that drive me barmy.

He should get a pay rise in September and I will certainly be withdrawing a great deal from his nonsense.

Until then I really think I just have to put up with it. I just wish he would bloody well treat me like a human being in the mean time.

FantasticButtocks Wed 16-Jul-14 19:53:23

OK, given that you feel you do need to help him, could you just say to him I am already choosing to help you in ways I don't have to, that is enough. I do not choose to listen to your resentful moaning about my situation. Stop it, or I will stop helping you sort of thing?

Lweji Wed 16-Jul-14 19:53:38

Does he work and how many days does he care for the children?

Lweji Wed 16-Jul-14 19:54:46

Or rather, does he work ft?

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 19:55:14

This is just awful though. Why do you feel you have to listen to him? You really don't.

If he starts on you, tell him you won't accept bring spoken to like that and ask him to leave. He sounds awful.

mrsspagbol Wed 16-Jul-14 19:55:52

You need to change this situation. It's irrelevant that the debts are in his name - just pay the creditors.

You need to stop giving him money to live on! What motivation will he have to change his situation of you are there giving handouts?

And if you stop the handouts - as you should - he will just use the debt money to live on.

You really need to put some boundaries in place. The current situation will not end well.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 19:56:39

He works FT 37hrs per week.

He looks after the children 3 nights a week.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 16-Jul-14 20:02:02

Wouldn't most dads be, you know, kind of chuffed to spend three nights a week with their DC? Especially if he's excused paying maintenance for them (I am taking the liberty of assuming this to be the case, given that you are passing money over to him for the debts - it would be a bit daft to have money going both ways when you could just trade one payment off against the other).

andsmile Wed 16-Jul-14 20:03:55

You need to detach

Cocklodger coo coo ka choo

tribpot Wed 16-Jul-14 20:04:29

Is he the dc's father?? You seem to think he's doing you a massive favour by looking after them whilst you work - you know, like you do when he works.

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 20:04:47

Yes - deal with the creditors directly.

So what if he only has 250 pounds disposable income at the end of the month? Other people manage on less
Not your problem! And you definitely shouldn't be giving him subs although I'm sure you know that.

Have a good think about why you feel you have to listen to all this, absorb his nastiness and feel responsible for him to the point of bailing him out financially.

I may be wrong here but I suspect he's spent much of the relationship using you as an emotional/verbal punchbag, and trained you into thinking you deserve it or have to take it. You don't.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:05:56

He is supposed to pay maintenance but keeps it so that he has the amount needed to pay my half of the bills basically.

which is fine, we can do that for a year or so and then re-address things and see where we are.

mindyourown1 Wed 16-Jul-14 20:08:27

the debt is in his name - so legally not your problem. If you do want to pay towards it pay them direct. Also if he is setting one foot in your house then he needs to stop. Why are you even speaking to him. He should pick up children and drop them off and that should be it.

I agree, sort your boundaries out pronto.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 20:08:40


No, you can't

mindyourown1 Wed 16-Jul-14 20:09:11

and get him to pay you maintenance - you are legally entitled to that. He has no right to keep a penny from you.

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 20:10:23

So basically, he doesn't pay maintenance, taps you for money and instead of thanking you, he launches verbal attacks?

He sounds like a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:14:58

He looks after the children here because he doesn't have suitable accommodation to look after them elsewhere.

He is paying the bills with the money, definitely.

I just want him to stop being so horrible to me. The real test will be in September I suppose, he will be getting more money from work and will Have to budget properly, I realise at the moment he is in a bit of a catch 22 where he just doesn't have enough money to survive.

Its all so messy.

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 20:18:32

You spots like a lovely, kind and thoughtful person.

But it simply isn't your problem! I'm making an assumption here, but have you asked yourself why he isn't doing this with his family, or any of his friends? Would they not put up with it? Does he have any?

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 20:19:06

Sorry! Spot should be sound.

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 20:22:11

He's not going to stop being horrible, and paying him off like this will achieve nothing. Once this is sorted there will be something else. If he's not happy with his income he needs to work more, not scrounge off you and try to make you feel bad. Your income goes to support his children!

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:23:54

yes I tell him that Lady and I've tried to make him see that him spitting green with envy at my income is such a bad look.

If he is still a prick in September I promise to shift things around.

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 20:27:18

Why wait until September? There will be 7 or 8 weeks of crap between now and then.

FantasticButtocks Wed 16-Jul-14 20:31:08

I just want him to stop being so horrible to me. Don't stand for it. He is your Ex.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:36:12

Well because in September his wage goes up and there will be no excuse for him not being able to bloody look after himself.

Until then I will suck it up. I can see that he is on the bones of his arse and it is really hard for him. Unfortunately (for him) I have been there for years and years and so I have limited sympathy.

I have agreed to help him through the next month and a bit, I will not go back on that agreement but he does need to be careful.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 16-Jul-14 20:38:59

While we were in the hideously drawn-out process of divorcing, XH asked what would become of him (ie if I didn't stay and keep paying all the bills). I responded rather brutally that he could stay in a cardboard box under Charing Cross Bridge for all I cared. He was rather hurt by that, and repeated it to me a couple of times over the coming months, but I remained unmoved. As he got 50% of everything less joint debts, the same as I did, he should have been able to manage at least a good class wooden crate.

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 20:39:54

You know once September comes he'll find another excuse to moan at you, right? People don't change. He feels aggrieved for some reason and a little pay rise isn't going to heal this.

DontPutMeDownForCardio Wed 16-Jul-14 20:43:59

Are you the poster with the legoland thread? If so on there didn't you say that he is paying some of the costs of your household as well as his own?

Schoolsgettingonmynerves Wed 16-Jul-14 20:45:24

I feel for you OP.

Interestingly it's usually the women who bang on about not having any money (whilst bleeding there ex husband dry and driving around in flash cars and living in big houses and bragging to their friends that it's actually them that is a successful business woman.) Oh I'm sorry did I just rant out loud?

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:49:24

I am the poster with the legoland thread but I certainly didn't say he pays the cost of my household! Not even close.

FunkyBoldRibena Wed 16-Jul-14 20:49:56

It really is quite frustrating.

£240 a month disposable income is not 'on the bones of his arse'.

He really has got you hasn't he? Wake up and smell the coffee lady. He is running rings around you. You hold the power and are just letting it slip through your fingers.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 20:54:41

Well he has to pay £10 a week to get to work, that leaves him with £200 to feed himself for a week, I wouldn't say that is particularly solvent.

I can understand why he is feeling it, why it is hard for him right now.

I know that feeling and I do understand how it just takes over your life.

He will still be in a shit position in September but he will be in a much better position than he is now.

As for 'the power' well I like to think it is shared, he comes here so I can work, I work so I can support the children properly and help him out when he is really struggling.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 21:01:02

sorry £200 for a month

paddlenorapaddle Wed 16-Jul-14 21:03:54

Annie that just made me truly laugh out loud grin watching with interest one of these has his hooks into my sister

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 21:05:02

OP, my 18yo dd has to pay £40 + per week to get to work

Diddums for him

flippinada Wed 16-Jul-14 21:06:36

Sorry, that's ridiculous. A grown adult can feed themselves quite easily on 200 quid a month.

OK, you won't be eating steak and will probably have to miss out a couple of takeaways but he's hardly on the bones of his arse!

NatashaBee Wed 16-Jul-14 21:08:55

I could feed an entire family on 200 quid a month. Presumably if he minds the kids at yours he isn't buying food for them too?

Sicaq Wed 16-Jul-14 21:15:40

You keep talking about how skint he is, but many people work full time (and then some) and can only dream of £200 disposable income each month.

LadySybilLikesCake Wed 16-Jul-14 21:21:19

I don't think your heart's quite broken up with him yet, you seem to be making a lot of excuses and you're feeling sorry for him.

mindyourown1 Wed 16-Jul-14 21:22:08

he's got it made hasn't he - not only is he not paying maintenance for his kids, he has you giving him money and he still abuses you. When are you going to wake up and start looking after yourself and tell him no?

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 21:47:22

No he doesn't buy them food.

My heart is very much broken up with him, he is a prick and my intentions are very clear, break away from this in a way that allows us to still be able to spend time together for the children.

I have to be able to still work, its a real lifeline for me, so him coming over is beneficial to me as much as him.

He does really need to stop acting like a total prick though, I think my ultimatum is in September, I will stop topping him up and I will not accept him being a dickhead.

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere Wed 16-Jul-14 22:00:42

Op as I and others told you on your other thread you need to detach. Space from this twat, physically and mentally. The mindset is supposed to be:
Him "I'm living in a box in a hole in the road and every morning lorries run me over as I crawl to the bin to search for food"
You "that's nice. Bye"

It shouldn't be family days out and financial entwinement. He doesn't need to see DCs at your house, he can take them out for the day. When you're working nights he obv can't do that but I think you'd be far better using the money you save by not bailing him out on paying a babysitter to cover your work shifts.

Look this man is treating you like shit, and what are you doing? Feeling sorry for him, giving him money. Honestly you are pretty much yelling "hey Mr Wankbadger, come walk all over me, I am your personal doormat". Stop it! He can get to fuck. If you stop bailing him out believe me he WILL find a way to pay his bills. Pay off the debts direct to creditors, stop the days out and when he wants to see the DCs he takes them out somewhere.

You won't do any of this of course, but I'm hoping you are at least listening.

And fwiw, if anyone, let alone an ex, came round and started having a go at me or even being rude, I would say "I don't wish to listen to your bollocks" and shut the door in their face. You can do that you know, you don't have to listen to his shit. Stand your ground a bit more OP.

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere Wed 16-Jul-14 22:06:56

He's not going to stop being a prick because he likes being prick and because you're letting him be a prick. Think about it. What happens when he's a prick? You say some words to that effect? Oo ooh scary. It doesn't make fuck all difference to him does it? The only way to make him stop being a prick is prevent the opportunity. By having SPACE. Once all the waters settle in years time you may be able to have a co parenting relationship where you can spend time together for the kids. But ATM that isn working because the dynamic that you had when together is still existing because you haven't doe anything to change it. So he doesn't see ICan, single independent woman who I coparent with. He sees ICan, muggins whose life I still have a say in and who has no boundaries.

Boundaries are then to show the twats that they can't be twats anymore. That the dynamics changed, that they aren't in control anymore. They can say and do what they want but it won't make a blind bit of difference because you don't have to listen anymore.

That's not happening for you because you're letting him walk all over your boundaries. Nothing will change until you're willing to change it.

tribpot Wed 16-Jul-14 22:17:46

Has he literally just got to buy food with that 200 quid? Jeepers. Bones of his arse? Mind you, at least he wasn't smart enough to put all the debt in your name - I bet you wouldn't see him for dust if that had happened.

Chocaholicmonster Wed 16-Jul-14 22:18:29

I can't really understand why you have felt the need to write here? (Apart from to vent perhaps?) because you've certainly made up your mind about what you're doing & you defend him to the end of time.


Until then I really think I just have to put up with it.

I have agreed to help him through the next month and a bit, I will not go back on that agreement but he does need to be careful.

Also, these are HIS children too. He does look after the children so I can work, I wouldn't be able to do that if he didn't come and look after them so I do need to help him in this particularly crap time in his life. .. Umm, no you don't? You sound indebted to him because he looks after your children 3 nights a week - they are HIS children too. It's his right to look after them along side you. He doesn't pay maintenance, he doesn't buy their food, he looks after them in YOUR home... & yet because he looks after HIS children, you feel you owe him a favour back. Honestly.

On a side note, I work full time, I don't have children to support. I pay all my own bills (with no help from the social) - I'd jump for joy at having a spare £200 or whatever it was a month. Please don't compare this guys situation as he is on the bones of his arse or has pushed him into near poverty ... boo f**king hoo. There's people starving & living on the streets in this country who'd feel rich having £50 to live on a week.

Tell him to pull his act together, mature up, act like a MAN & a FATHER & you need to stop bowing down to his behaviour. You're allowing him to act the way he does & he doesn't even need to make his own excuses, because you do that for him.

I'm sorry if this is blunt, or harsh.. but sometimes it pays to be honest.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 22:21:43

Well I suppose I do feel sorry for him right now.

We have split up and admittedly that is mostly down to him being a self centered, selfish prick but he has lost his home, he can't see his children every day and he has gone from having all the juggling of finances done by muggings here, to having to deal with everything on his own.

I understand that it is bloody tough for him and I am not sure what throwing him in at the deepend will do other than produce a life time worth of resentment which I will work hard to avoid.

So yes I agree things need to change but I think they can do so over a period of time, I don't think that giving him a month of adjustment is too much of a hardship to me or too lenient to him. He just NEEDS to stop acting like an arse about it

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 22:27:46

is he a child ?

stop treating him like one

he is a grown "period of adjustment required" especially when
he throws it back in your face by verbally abusing you

Chocaholicmonster Wed 16-Jul-14 22:30:25

* he has gone from having all the juggling of finances done by muggings here, to having to deal with everything on his own. *

Welcome to the real world which the majority of people, especially adults, have to deal with. Sometimes it has a nasty habit of smacking you in the face but most people just get on with it & sort their of s**t out.

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere Wed 16-Jul-14 22:31:12

No by being tough on him you will force him to see that you are someone deserving of respect. By putting you and your DCs first and letting him flounder on his own you are showing that you value yourself.

ATM you are telling him the opposite and he IS taking advantage of the woman who feels sorry for him. He knows he can tug the emotional heart strings.

Where is your anger OP? This man is responsible for breaking up your family and any pain it may have caused your DC. This man is responsible for making you unhappy, for treating you badly when you did nothing to deserve it. He has caused this, he has done this, if you ever want him to change, to step up and be a decent father he needs to see the reality of what he has done. And that won't be achieved while you are still feeling sorry for him and playing doormat.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 22:32:12

We are all wasting our keyboard

PIVOT Wed 16-Jul-14 22:32:50

Well I don't feel sorry for him, he sounds like a cocklodger with a massive sense of entitlement and the toys are out the pram now you aren't doing what he says. You are not responsible for him.

My household of two people eats for 150 a month. One of whom has hollow legs and one of those meals is steak. It's not a budget shop, that's all the things we want! Including both our lunches for work.

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 22:34:47

He is the father of my children, any anger I have with him needs to be tempered by that.

I cannot see how me putting him into a near impossible financial position will create anything but negativity for the children.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 22:37:20

finances is one thing

accepting his verbal abuse is entirely another

now that will fuck your kids right up

mindyourown1 Wed 16-Jul-14 22:39:03

but you don't mind him putting you in an impossible financial position by not paying maintenance for his children??

Why did you split up with him because all you are doing is defending him and supporting him?

FunkyBoldRibena Wed 16-Jul-14 22:39:45

We have split up and admittedly that is mostly down to him being a self centered, selfish prick but he has lost his home, he can't see his children every day and he has gone from having all the juggling of finances done by muggings here, to having to deal with everything on his own.

Poor ickle mansie, having to do finks all on his ownsie. Anyone would think he was a grown up or some finks.

Oh hang on a minute...

As I said, wake up and smell the coffee love.

PIVOT Wed 16-Jul-14 22:41:36

Was the split mutual, at your request or due to his behaviour? You are clearly a well natured person, just mind he doesn't take advantage of it especially if it's his own doing. I really do understand why you find it so hard you're clearly so close to the situation.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 22:42:25

Just take him back and be done with it < sigh >

tribpot Wed 16-Jul-14 22:46:31

I was gonna say - you seem to be getting nothing out of the split at all and are quite happy to let him treat you with utter disrespect, essentially because you aren't a feckless tosspot like him. He looks after his own children in your home at your expense - why not just move him back in? He might stop bitching then at least.

43percentburnt Wed 16-Jul-14 22:52:12

You give him money towards joint debt. What was bought with the money? You say you have debt in your name, does he pay towards that? What was that money spent on?

You say you struggled making ends meet when you were together. Why was this?

As an outsider looking in it seems like you feel like you have to take care of the financial aspect of your relationship. Managing when you were together, protecting him from the reality of life when apart.

If there is no legal implication on the financial aspect of the divorce don't give him any money this month. Say he moans anyway so what's the point in helping. If you are giving him money you should not be handing over cash, you require an audit trail assuming it is needed as part of the divorce. Cash means he can deny receiving it.

I suggest answering the door eating caviar, quaffing champagne next time he calls.

HavanaSlife Wed 16-Jul-14 22:58:25

So he's not paying maintenance because you are letting him keep it towards your half of the debt?

Fair enough if you feel responsible for half the debt but don't give him any extra and don't put up with his shite.

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 23:10:20

No, not quite

he is paying no maintenance because Op feels sorry she is forcing him to manage his own finances

she is paying her share of the debt on top of that

ICanHearYou Wed 16-Jul-14 23:34:59

No we have sat down and looked at the things in his name (loans we took out and spent together for example) and worked out how much my share is, this comes to £30 more a month than he is supposed to pay for the kids so he keeps it and I give him the rest.

The problem is he is struggling on top of that and will certainly be struggling until September. So I will sub him small amounts when he is struggling until then, when he can deal with it.

As for accepting him being a prick to me, I absolutely don't. I am very firm with him and told him exactly what he was risking by continuing to speak to me the way he has done and he has apologised for that, I refuse to put up with it and he knows that.

I still maintain that continuing to be good natured and allowing a 10 year relationship to end in a supportive way is the best course of action. Better for the children and certainly better for me. Frankly I don't need the guilt.

The worst thing for me would be him not feeling like he could look after the children anymore or choosing not to do that because I would lose my job.

The worst thing for the children would be not seeing their father for some of the time in their own environment.

He just needs to stop speaking to me like he has been or all of this will go to shit.

Chocaholicmonster Wed 16-Jul-14 23:41:22

ICanHearYou, nobody is asking for you to lay out your personal / financial workings out. At the end of the day, that is personal to you & frankly, nobody elses business.

I just do not understand why you felt the need to post here in the beginning when A) You've clearly made up your mind on what you've chosen to do about this situation (which is to change absolutely nothing) & B) You've done nothing but defend this man.

How did you really expect people to respond? ''Oh, you're wonderful for helping this 'poverty stricken' man. He's such a poor soul. He deserves every penny you give him'' ... Honestly, what advice would you give someone who had wrote this post??

AnyFucker Wed 16-Jul-14 23:51:33

He just needs to stop speaking to me like he has been or all of this will go to shit.

what is he doing to address this ?

or indeed, address anything at all

you have told him to stop speaking to you like this and he carries on regardless

what now?

getthefeckouttahere Thu 17-Jul-14 00:26:19

errrm he could always get another job??? Adults generally have to finance their own lives. He could learn to live on his new reduced income etc etc who cares, thats now his issue to deal with.

He was with you and had a certain lifestyle, now he isn't and he has a different one. Things change, hey ho. If his career takes off and he becomes super wealthy do you think he will be as generous to you? Nope me neither.

But like others i think this has fuck all to do with money. You are still emotionally attached/guilty/whatever. Enjoy.

CaptainAmericaMmmYesPlease Thu 17-Jul-14 00:39:56

He's poverty stricken because he only has �200 a month for food..for one person?? The Four of us eat very well on just a little less than that. How much food does one man require??

You sound worried that if you stop subsidising him he'll stop visiting your DC and caring for them while you work. Surely if he's a 'good dad', he'd be more than happy to do that regardless?

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 06:11:19

I think it is reasonable to continue with the agreement we have made until September, after that I will readdress the money things and stop giving him extra.

I more wanted to talk about him speaking to me like shit and how it made me feel than constantly talking about money, I get that from him as well I don't need it here too.

I am not defending him, I am defending myself and my choice to ease us all into living separately rather than 'putting my foot down' and growing lots of resentment and hatred. Unfortunately we are stuck with each other somewhat because of the children.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 06:15:06

As for what he is doing, that is a bone of contention with me, he finds it very hard to do anything and he certainly struggles to actually put any effort in, I have suggested he consolidates his debts but he refuses to.

I think after last night he is at least a bit more clear about what I pay for and how I am actually being fucking reasonable about all this: he said I have too much 'power' over his life but that isn't true, he has power over his own life the only possible power I have is because he looks after the children when I work.

He has become used to relying on people, that needs to change I agree totally with that. I will make it absolutely clear to him that come September, there will not be any handouts or monetary support from me.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 17-Jul-14 06:58:09

It's only a couple of months so I guess you can hack that, but if you're still reliant on him for childcare there's a big possibility for ongoing blackmail. Hope there is a Plan B, because if you've got an alternative lined up he's less likely to play silly-buggers.

43percentburnt Thu 17-Jul-14 07:08:36

Ican. Please ensure you have a back up babysitter, maybe a local teenager, to babysit. Because you may find this man becomes less helpful at some point.

Have you thought if you told him: 'okay I get your point about control over your life. I wish to relinquish all control. Sort out your own debts, pay your own bills. You can have the kids 2 nights a week if you wish, if you cannot manage or do not have space don't worry about it as I have it covered. You are no longer having them in my home. I believe there is a contact centre at x if you require it. I will be applying for maintainance. I no longer want to hear your money worries, they stopped being my concern long ago'.

Ironically If you told him this he would probably respect you more.

Sorry op but too many of us have been there.

PedantMarina Thu 17-Jul-14 07:20:36

Annie, I actually read that ...raucous cry of the cocklodger ... with a David Attenborough voice voice in my head.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 07:39:01

No I am sorry but we got into debt together, as a couple and I am responsible for half of that debt, I am not going to stop paying it because I am not a total bitch and I would definitely feel like one if I did that.

I can't rely on a local teenager to watch my children 3 nights a week from 4pm until 12/1

He can do it, he is well aware that if he stops doing it I will apply for maintenance through the CSA and he will have to take me to court for the half of the debts that are in his name.

I have no issue paying for the things we spent/bought while we were together, they are my debts as well as his regardless of whose name they are in.

This is not an arrangement I am unhappy with, nor do I think I am giving him control over me. I am simply honouring agreements made when we were a couple, I do that because of who I am, not because of who HE is.

Aussiemum78 Thu 17-Jul-14 07:42:41

When the debts are paid, and you expect child support, won't he still have the same disposable income (and therefore blame you).

What are the debts for? Are they against an asset you could sell to pay the debts off?

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 07:48:52

anyway, I am pretty much done with constantly defending my right to actually be a reasonable adult on this forum.

Because that is all I am being and it seems unless you are prepared to hang the PARENT OF YOUR CHILDREN out to dry and leave them destitute with no way of seeing their children other than in a contact center twice a week (great for the kids I am sure) then you are evil incarnate and you can't possible have a gripe about ANY OTHER issues in the situation.

My issue here is completely the way he has spoken to me.

For example when I said 'you are speaking to me like I am a cunt and it is unacceptable given the vast variety of things I have done for you here are a few examples' and he decided to bring up me somehow making HIM feel bad about himself during our relationship, at this point I brought up the fact that he has constantly told me that I am not good enough/pretty enough/slim enough and that no matter what I do I will never be beautiful in his eyes etc etc.

He then back peddled furiously telling me that it was not a 'statement about our relationship' but just him telling me how I made him feel, to which I once again pointed out that I continuously reminded him that I was his heart body and soul for the duration of our relationship, a fact that he chooses to continuously overlook and in fact completely abused.

I think he does get it now, that actually I am not going to accept him telling me I am a bad person anymore and that if it carries on he will find himself in exceptionally hot water with not a legal hope in hell of sorting it out.

I am rational enough to understand that a relationship of 10 years takes more than 1 month to end, I get that and I am okay with that, I am not going to leave him high and dry, I am not going to abandon his chances of spending time in a normal family situation with the children and I am not going to sabotage our chance to have a friendship with each other when all of this is done and dusted.

I am just sick of him acting like I am some sort of monster when I am clearly nothing of the sort, it has been something he has done a lot in our relationship and has really made me doubt myself time and time again.

So sometimes I need to be able to TALK about the things he says to me and how they make me feel without having to constantly defend myself against a barrage of 'just fuck him over that'll learn him' because I am just not that sort of person and I am not going to suddenly change into that sort of person because 'mumsnet said'

I am realising how abusive he has been, I am realising how little he respects me and how much he has made me doubt my own mind and my own goodness.

But I am not going to allow that to cloud our family life, my work life or his relationship with the children.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 07:50:36

Aussie I have pointed that out to him a couple of times but he just doesn't get it.

I have agreed to freeze maintenance for the next year, so he will just keep paying those joint bills and I will not push him for anymore after his pay rise until this time next year.

When we will see where we are.

petalsandstars Thu 17-Jul-14 08:08:17

Just as an aside OP - I manage to feed a family of 4 on about £200 a month. If I had that just for one person I can't actually think how to spend it without copious amounts of alcohol being involved.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 08:13:31

petal I know, the ridiculous thing is that I used to feed OUR whole family on around that and he was so detached from the actual real grind of daily life for me and the kids that he just didn't notice.

He has to spend £40 of that on travel to work, so its £160 on food really, which he still thinks he will massively struggle with but he just needs to learn to budget. I can easily say 'look buy 4 loaves of bread for £4 and freeze 3 of them, two packets of ham for £4 and a load of apples, thats lunches sorted'

'a packet of mince, chicken, fish fillets for £10 from tesco, make spag bol and freeze most of it, make chicken curry and freeze most of it, freeze 3 of the fish fillets, thats dinners for the month.'

He eats here a few nights a week anyway so he really has nothing to worry about, but I can't do it, I can't tell him what to buy because frankly he needs to get there on his own.

FunkyBoldRibena Thu 17-Jul-14 08:20:41

£240 a month spare cash is not destitute. And he eats at yours a few nights a week.

How will he ever learn if you enable him forever?

Being a responsible adult is not about giving someone a crutch to lean on, it's about helping them to learn how to walk themselves.

I am aghast that you cannot see this. And yet you do that and still take the abuse from him.

AtSea1979 Thu 17-Jul-14 08:21:26

Sounds to me like your quite like the attachment you have with him. If it was me I'd just get a seperate bank loan, pay my half of the debt direct to the company and then make my repayments to the bank and only see ex for contact for DCs.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 08:27:53

I can't get a bank loan, they don't like me!

As I have said, I have no issue with the arrangement as it stands, I actually think it protects me somewhat because he can't just decide to not care for the children while I work. It will take about 3 years to pay off the debts by which time I should be upskilled enough to work in the day.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 08:28:42

I don't 'quite like it' it is just how it is.

Whether I 'like it' or not, he is the father of my children, I can't get rid of him without their being really awful consequences for them.

FunkyBoldRibena Thu 17-Jul-14 08:45:02

As I have said, I have no issue with the arrangement as it stands

Evidently there is or you wouldn't have started a thread about it and we wouldn't know about the arrangement as it stands.

AllHailTheBigPurpleOne Thu 17-Jul-14 08:47:55

If he decides not to help with childcare on top of paying no maintenence then he is a bad father, and I would put that to him.

As for speaking like a spoilt petulant teenager I would say don't talk shit at me or I will give you nothing. because that is all he deserves.
He has more than I do a month for my family, and I manage fine. He is also subbed meal wise by you for 40% of the week. And i would point that out.
I agree, you are jointly responsible for any debts racked up between you and I admire your reasonableness.
BUT. His life is not your responsibility. You need to think ahead, what will happen in September when you stop subbing him? Is he miraculously going to have grown up? Stop beefing?

He will find some other way to bleed you dry. Or some way to get to you.
You broke up with him because he's a prick, he will never stop being a prick.
He will also never stop being the father of your children
So yes, it is tough. But your kids don't deserve to see one of their role models act like a child himself.

mindyourown1 Thu 17-Jul-14 08:49:25

yu aren't being a reasonable adult - you are mothering him and being a doormat. I bet come Sep he will blackmail you again over money, probably refuse to do childcare for you. This won't end will it unless you change. You will carry on paying for 3 years and get no maintenance. He is loving getting away with this I am sure.

PlumpPartridge Thu 17-Jul-14 08:51:16

Hi op, I think I understand where you're coming from. You're managing the separation at your own pace. I'm glad that you have a long-term plan to reduce the attachment, because if you didn't then this situation would sound rather more worrying.

The thing I've found with MN is that there are so many people who have been where you are and wish they could go back and cut their partner off earlier, emotionally disengage earlier. You know rationally that they're right and that you'd pprobably save a lot of time/money if you took their advice, but emotionally you're just not there yet. You do intend to get there though, which I believe is a positive thing.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 09:24:42

I think the no maintenance thing is a bit of. Red herring, he does give me maintenance but it is swallowed up by the debt that we got into together, if he doesn't pay the debts it is on his head, I am just paying them off because I spent them!

I definitely have a plan to reduce dependency, because that is what it is, he has been reliant on me to do everything for him financially that he doesn't realise it's not so bad to be where he is.

I feel like in September I will absolutely be able to say 'you can live and exist just fine on this amount of money, stop pestering me'

It's more the bloody shit he throws at me, complaints about how I spend my money and veiled digs at my life.

They drive me up the wall

mindyourown1 Thu 17-Jul-14 10:09:09

so you need to stop spending any time with him and stop him coming into your home - until you set that boundary he will continue.

aftereight Thu 17-Jul-14 10:26:56

Can I just ask, what will happen in September if his (presumably large) payrise doesn't materialise? or if he tells you that it hasn't

Lweji Thu 17-Jul-14 10:29:48

And what if he doesn't stop pestering you in September?

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 10:35:51

He will get a payrise in September it is a foregone conclusion.

If he doesn't stop pestering me in September I will tell him where to shove it, simple.

He has to come into the home to care for the children, its just the way it is right now.

bibliomania Thu 17-Jul-14 10:39:42

I do get where you're coming from, and I think it's admirable to pay your share of joint debts.

It is worth pointing out that you're expecting an unreasonable person to act reasonably. Ain't gonna happen. You either have to accept that you continue to do the decent thing and he continues to wallow in self-pity and resentment of you or you have to think about what you want to change from your side.

Believe me, I've spent years wondering why my ex couldn't see and appreciate that I was bending over backwards to be fair to him. Some people are just bottomless pits of entitlement and self-pity - you're never going to fill them up no matter how much you give.

If you want to keep the arrangement till Sept, I suggest that you just don't engage in any conversation with him. Breezy pleasantries, nothing more. And don't expect any miraculous transformation of his behaviour in Sept - as you say, you are ready then to make your change.

mindyourown1 Thu 17-Jul-14 10:42:47

and what will you do in September when he refuses to look after the children so you can work?

nauticant Thu 17-Jul-14 10:53:24

Does the money you give him (directly or otherwise) actually pay down the debts? Or is it just paying off the interest?

Apart from your other problems, you could find yourself in a situation in which the debts never get paid off and he tries to use them to keep you financially entangled with him indefinitely.

Lweji Thu 17-Jul-14 10:56:19

If the debt he is refusing to consolidate is also yours (although in his name), you should give him only half the amount he'd have to pay after consolidating that debt.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 11:17:40

If he refuses to look after the children I will stop giving him the money for maintenance and claim it through the CSA, he will be up shit creek and have to take me to court to get his share.

He will screw himself over as much as he will me and he knows it.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 11:18:13

I am happy to pay half of the debts, it is fine to do that, it is not just interest.

I am JUST not happy for him to speak to me like a piece of shit, that is what I am unhappy about.

Lweji Thu 17-Jul-14 11:23:51

I am JUST not happy for him to speak to me like a piece of shit, that is what I am unhappy about.

Sadly, you cannot control that. You can only distance yourself.

Whether the children will be affected is caused by him, not you.
But it's not healthy if they still live in a stressful atmosphere caused by the tension between both of you. Children pick up very easily on this.

mindyourown1 Thu 17-Jul-14 11:25:51

but you can't change that unless you don't see him......

He is not going to stop unless you go no contact with him - but you refuse to acknowledge that.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 11:47:44

I Can't go no contact with him, its impossible at the moment, I would have to give up work and that is not something I am prepared to do.

Lweji Thu 17-Jul-14 12:07:29

Then, just get a really thick armour.

Aka, smile throughout, non-committal answers, and plenty "I'm sorry you feel that way". grin

Lweji Thu 17-Jul-14 12:08:17

Having said that you can go minimal contact, unless you think he won't have the children at all.
But if he wants to see them, surely he'll go to yours or will take them out.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 12:18:52

Yep that is what it is going to have to be.

I think that, in the cold light of day, it is good we had that bust-up yesterday because he does finally seem to realise that I am not 'withholding' money from him or giving him a rough deal, I am actually being bloody reasonable with him and there is no point us being at each others throats.

Lets hope he begins to act like a grown up now.

differentnameforthis Thu 17-Jul-14 14:47:19

Bloody hell, what I wouldn't give for 250pounds DISPOSABLE income a bloody month!!!

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Thu 17-Jul-14 16:51:13

Where there is a household which contains a single mum and her children, the father of the children should BE PUTTING MONEY INTO THE HOUSEHOLD, not taking it out.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 17:38:21

I'm considerably better off than him though, it's crazy but it is true.

flippinada Thu 17-Jul-14 19:08:34

It's good that you have September in your head as a cut off point.

But please be aware that he will find something else to kick off about once you withdraw financial support. I'd also be prepared for the withdrawal of financial support on your part to coincide with him being a lot less helpful wrt childcare, so start looking into alternative childcare options now - forewarned is forearmed.

And please don't do anything in the hope he will be more reasonable - who knows, maybe there will be a miraculous turnaround. But I wouldn't bet on it. Why would he when he still has what he wants - control over your life.

I realise all this sounds very hard faced, and I appreciate it must feel a bit like you are being got at - I think people feel angry on you and your kids behalf, because he's abusing you all. He's despicable. Take steps towards independence and you will feel so much better.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 20:08:08

If he stops doing childcare he ends up in the shit with money and I cannot work.

I can't make other arrangements other than to not work, I am not prepared to do that.

flippinada Thu 17-Jul-14 20:21:14

I understand it's hard, I'm a working single mum too (with little practical support).

Is there really no other option but for him to look after the children? It just seems like he has you over a barrel. You rely on him and he knows it so feels free to behave how he likes.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 20:35:26

In a way I have him over a barrel though, he has nowhere suitable to look after the children so without my cooperation he would be unable to spend nearly as much time with them as he does.

He looks after them while I work, yes. But if I chose to, I could refuse to pay the joint debts (in his name) and go to CSA for money, I have told him very clearly that this is exactly what I will do if he refuses to mind the children while I work.

Its not forever, I am working my way up towards a skilled job where I can work in the day. At the moment I think we are reliant on each other, which I realise isn't healthy but I think I hold more chips than he does.

Regardless, it is how things are at the moment and I don't think that paying someone to come in and care for the children 3 nights a week (at great cost to me) when their father is down the road and can spend that time with them is fair on them or him or me.

flippinada Thu 17-Jul-14 21:03:34

Well, there's nothing more to add except good luck. All the best to you and your children.

FelineLou Thu 17-Jul-14 21:30:41

I think he gets off on seeing you upset. The smile and "Sorry you see it that way " is the way to slow down his nastiness. I think you are kind and being very honourable re the debts.
People on here have a different view of what is important.
The children and their relationship with their father are very important. Just don't let him see he is getting to you and require respect and some gratitude if possible.
Well done to a slow breakup.

hoppingmad Thu 17-Jul-14 21:39:35

When I left ex I left with nothing (he kept the house and contents). He paid no maintenance and I continued helping him out financially. When he sold the house I asked him to start contributing towards the dc's. he did so sporadically whilst spending hundreds on himself.
Eventually I realised I was being a mug and went through csa.

Yes he did throw his toys out the pram and yes he no longer sees the dc's but it was either that or me continue to live by his rules just to keep the peace which I wasn't prepared to do. I left him precisely because I was fed up of treading on egg shells.

It's a shame he doesn't see the dc's. he still whines to mutual friends that he's skint because he pays me maintenance, that I ruined his relationship with the dc's (I didn't - he's a violent bastard and that's why they hate him)

My point is that a self declared victim will never change. The minute you stop doing what he wants your relationship will deteriorate. It will get ugly. You can't prevent it, you are only delaying the inevitable

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 21:44:34

well I am happy to delay it until I can work in the day and not rely on him for that.

It is important to me that I work, really important.

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 21:47:25

I definitely understand what you are saying and I can see in his eyes that he feels like he got a really 'rough deal' out of it all and that I am holding all the cards... because being a single mother with a weight problem is really a fabulous place to be isn't it!

But I have to think about the bigger picture and me not finishing my studies or not going to work is definitely not going to improve life for the children. I need to keep him on side whilst maintaining the right to call him a fucking prick as much as is necessary.

He slipped into it yesterday 'you've taken everything from me, kicked me out of my house and my family' as if he was in no way responsible for any of it. Actually I clung to our family unit for dear life while he just floated around without giving enough of a shit to pull it together. he made me feel awful about myself, he turned me into someone i don't want to be and then when I finally break away (after millions of warnings) he pretends it is entirely 'my fault' when it absolutely isn't

hoppingmad Thu 17-Jul-14 21:49:56

Well that's your choice I suppose but in the meantime at least learn to not let him get to you.
I did what a pp mentioned - the whole 'I'm sorry you feel that way' and then got on with my life.
Like you I went through the stage of feeling guilty, like the way he was feeling and what he was going through was my fault. It was exhausting! The sooner you distance yourself emotionally the better.

hoppingmad Thu 17-Jul-14 21:54:19

Oops, x post.

He sounds a lot like my ex. God he was such a dick, what was I thinking?! So young, so naive but so many good years wasted. On the bright side I'm making up for it now smile

ICanHearYou Thu 17-Jul-14 22:17:00

I feel exactly like that hopping my whole 20's with a guy who told me I would never be beautiful like 'other women' and basically used everything at his disposal - withholding sex, being a complete cunt about sex (basically telling me that when I tried to discuss what I liked/didn't like I was being abusive to him) staring at other women in public, choosing porn over sex etc etc

He just made me feel dreadful about myself, right from the start of our relationship 9 years ago to now. He ebbed away at my self esteem always with this 'oh but I love you despite all these many shortcomings' and I have finally managed to break away from him.

he is still the childrens father though, that will never change and I wouldn't want it to.

MrsJoeDolan Fri 18-Jul-14 00:50:56

you sound lovely but a MASSIVE doormat. sorry. I keep reading your posts hearing BUT BUT BUT BUT going round my head. You treat this abusive arse like a petulant child who can be cajoled and endured until his behaviour improves. Stop trying to see it from his point of view. Detach and get on with your own life.

Zucker Fri 18-Jul-14 01:26:51

So really the only break up that's actually happened is you're no longer sleeping with him? Break up in name really if you think about it, you're still very much a couple. What a great set up he's landed himself with.

yoyo27 Fri 18-Jul-14 01:49:44

You work part time, and have the kids four nights a week, but pay for them all week.

He works full time, sees the kids 3 nights a week but without any cost as it's at your house.

Yet you're bailing him out with money! Plain daft

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 08:04:51

Well he did try saying that he doesn't have to pay me as much maintenance because we 'share custody' but I pointed out that is irrelevant when it is all happening in my house with my electric/heating/food etc.

Walkacrossthesand Fri 18-Jul-14 08:34:02

Yes indeed - shared custody happens when there are 2 separate homes and the DC spend time in each, so that notion gets slapped down sharpish, well done.
I think your only way forward, unless the situation changes and an affordable childcare alternative materialises, is to keep on with the rebutting of his pity party every single time.

It's all of a piece really isn't it - he's by nature an envious lazy freeloader, who had no insight at all into the work you were doing to maintain the household - now that he's not the beneficiary of that work, he's jealous and resentful. Be prepared for twists and turns as he tries to find a way to get right under your skin - he's almost managing it now, hence you feeling so mad at him, and hence why it's so important that you put his opinions into a box marked 'unimportant and irrelevant' .

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 08:48:56

I know, he is being ridiculous.

I do tell him though every time, that is why we have arguments because I refuse to just allow him to come out with this crap. I have pulled him up a couple of times in the last month on his little comments about my financial situation and he has refused to enter into discussion about it or say anything is wrong (because he is, fundamentally a coward) but then it all came out the other day and he went through the whole bingo card

'its your fault I am not living in my house/with my kids/with money anymore' (actually its your fault you entitled, selfish prick)

'its your fault I am skint because you are not paying me any money for the bills we got together' (actually I do, because you don't pay me a penny in maintenance and that money goes on the bills)

Then he started quibbling over £30 a month which is when I pointed out exactly how much I pay for, asked him what more I could actually physically do to make his life easier because he just seems to want more and more of my and I don't think he will be happy until both his children are living in poverty and he is doing fine and dandy

But I don't just roll over and take it, I make it clear to him what is really going on outside of the little world of resentment he has created in his head. He does get it gradually I think.

All we can do is see how things go I suppose.

Walkacrossthesand Fri 18-Jul-14 09:02:30

Is the calculation of 'maintenance he owes you, minus debt you are paying back in lieu of maintenance' written down somewhere, with a clear end date, and the amount of maintenance he will have to start paying thereafter ? I would anticipate severe kicking off and involvement of CSA at that point, once money actually tangibly leaves his pocket. Were you the main financial brains when you were a couple?

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 09:09:58

Have you ever done the Freedom Programme? You can do it online free if you can't do it in person.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 09:30:22

Yes I was most definitely the financial brains.

I have said we will re-address the maintenance/debt issue in one years time, again, if I chose to involve the CSA he is absolutely screwed and he knows that.

I really don't have time to do a programme, I am currently doing a degree, working part time and I have the children 5 days out of 7 so its pretty busy here right now!

Plus I don't have too much of an issue with how things are, it is JUST him being a knob about everything that I hate, painting me as some sort of monster when actually I am being really bloody reasonable on all levels and he is just too clueless to see it.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 09:30:23

Yes I was most definitely the financial brains.

I have said we will re-address the maintenance/debt issue in one years time, again, if I chose to involve the CSA he is absolutely screwed and he knows that.

I really don't have time to do a programme, I am currently doing a degree, working part time and I have the children 5 days out of 7 so its pretty busy here right now!

Plus I don't have too much of an issue with how things are, it is JUST him being a knob about everything that I hate, painting me as some sort of monster when actually I am being really bloody reasonable on all levels and he is just too clueless to see it.

bibliomania Fri 18-Jul-14 09:34:30

Just don't try to reason him out of his viewpoint. He is so entrenched in his victimhood he is never, never going to change. No amount of pointing out the obvious will work.

When he starts having a dig, go for a tinkling little laugh and a smug expression. Or alternatively, look immensely bored. Whatever you do, just refuse to engage - he will never see your point.

I'm not telling you to be different (you've thought through your plan and have good reasons for it), all I'm saying is you've got to stop expecting him to be different.

bibliomania Fri 18-Jul-14 09:36:47

Oh, feel angry, feel bored, feel whatever you like, just don't let yourself feel pity for him. It's clearly your vulnerable point and this guy knows how to play you like a harp.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 09:47:07

What's that expression?
True madness lies in doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to turn out different.

He was abusive, he's still abusive, and he will be abusive.

You do need to find a way of removing yourself as much as possible from his influence.
He comes in, you go out.
You come back, he goes out. And if he refuses to get out, then you call the police. I'm sure he won't want to put his current job at risk.
Do family time if you are so keen on it, but do not have him around when the kids are not there and have no private conversations with him.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 10:05:37

I hear what you are saying about changing his mind and how pointless that is, but it is bloody difficult to be treated like you are being a twat when you are actually being really reasonable and open and cool.

I am very aware that regardless of how I treat him, he is going to paint me as a monster who has 'got everything' while he 'has nothing' and that is a massive shame but nothing I can do about it. I can't change that.

But I will not have him speaking down to me when he has no reason to.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 10:10:45

That's why you should hardly speak to him.
In fact, you should hardly spend any time together and do no more than pass each other on the way out/in.
Don't raise to his provocations. That's what he wants. Just say bye and you're not discussing it.

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 10:32:11

The Freedom Programme is invaluable after an abusive relationship - and it doesn't take weeks. Stops you repeating the same patterns and helps you recognize the abuse to which you were subjected. If you don't change your own mindset nothing will change - either with him or any future relationships. You cannot just brush this under the carpet and deal with it alone or expect it to stop if you continue on this same path.

And I managed to fit it in while working as a single parent and studying for a degree.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 12:16:34

Gosh I just love it when you are in a shit position, holding it all together, raising two children under 5 alone, working bloody hard and someone comes along and tells you how much better/more they have done in the same position.

Nothing like that to make you feel great about yourself. Cheers again MN

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 12:25:16

nobody is saying they have done better than you - people here are trying to help!

Many of us have been exactly where you are and know totally what you are going through. Perhaps many of us want to prevent you from making the mistakes we did.

Anyway - I'm out. Sorry for trying to help and support you.

hoppingmad Fri 18-Jul-14 12:31:33

Was that in relation to mindy's post about the freedom programme? If so I really didn't read it that way, I read it as her saying it doesn't take up much time so you'd be able to fit it in.
I really think you may have taken that the wrong way

hoppingmad Fri 18-Jul-14 12:32:43

Oops, mindyourown not mindy - the curse of using my phone and trying to memorise people's nn's blush

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 12:47:03

Thanks Hopping - that is exactly what I meant. Certainly wasn't making out I was better in any way.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 14:35:11

Sorry, I am tetchy.

It just feels like whatever I do I am constantly being reminded that I need to/have to/must do more. Its so hard.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 14:54:33

I actually think you need to do less.
Support him less.
Include him less.
Trying less to maintain the "family".
You should concentrate on yourself and your children. And let him do his bit for them (or not, as it's his responsibility, not yours).

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 14:55:00

No I think you need to do less - well less for him. Time to start looking after yourself and what you want and need.

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jul-14 15:08:19

It just feels like whatever I do I am constantly being reminded that I need to/have to/must do more.

It's quite mind boggling that this was your take home message from your thread confused

Zucker Fri 18-Jul-14 15:09:35

No quite the opposite you need to do less for HIM! He's the problem here you're doing sterling work by all accounts. Next time he starts whinging at youtell him to eff off and grow up.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 15:34:53

And I will do less for him, as he gets more self sufficient (I know that many of you think that is just an excuse) but as it is, I have agreed to help him until September and that is what I will do. I am not the type to go back on my word which is why it was so hard to end my marriage

I will always strive to keep relations comfortable to maintain a sense of family for the children, again this is not because of who he is, but because of who I am.

FunkyBoldRibena Fri 18-Jul-14 15:41:13

OP - yes but you HAVE ended your marriage. The only difference it would seem between this and your marriage is not sleeping together. When you end a relationship, other things have to end as well. And if you just sit there and take abuse from someone who you are bankrolling, well it beggars belief.

You think we are all wrong, and you are right. We get that. You can do what you want - you are an adult. But if everyone is saying 'that' crazy' doesn't it even make you think 'could they all be right here?'

Your word is not the be all and end is just something you said. It can be taken back at any time. If you choose not to do that, then that is your choice. But don't complain about it! As that is your decision to make.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 16:20:44

But even if you help him financially until September it doesn't mean that you have to put up with him.
And facilitating contact with the children still doesn't mean you have to put up with him.

As it is you keep giving the impression that you want to mother him, and you are still holding to the hope that he will become the person you wish he was.
You are willing to destroy yourself for what you think is the best for the children, but they won't thank you for taking crap and having a crap dad around.

And we all mean what we post in a non-confrontational way. It pains us (me, at least) to see you hurt by him, but still unable to free yourself.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 16:35:27

I have never said rolled f else is wrong and I am right, because I am not prepared to throw away my job, my independence from that job and stop my ex from seeing the children I am being labelled as a push over who is putting up with abuse. I am not, I have told him fucking clearly that I am not prepared to put up with his shit and I will continue to reiterate that.

I won't post here for advice again, I am sorry I did.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 16:39:51

The problem is that you haven't been posting for advice. Just to have a rant.

Shame on us.

Poor you. He's a bastard.

Is that what you want from here?

Captainbarnacles1101 Fri 18-Jul-14 16:42:49

ICanHearYou I get this totally. When I split from my ex we were in the same position and he used to give me shit for having more money than him and to ashut him up and keep him away I paid more than my fair share but like ur ex he just kept on and on. It only stopped when he got a new girlfriend and she wouldn't let him speak to me. I do t have any advice to offer just massive sympathy for the way some of these eejits are jumping to conclusions about ye. Hang in there buddy and try to get things official as far as financial arrangements are so you can tell him to rollocks! smile Xxx

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 17:00:09

I hope you do return - there is so much help for you here. And please just do me a favour and click on the Freedom Programme link I posted and have a little read?

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 17:04:48

Yes I've posted to have a rant and hopefully get some advice relative to my situation and with what I am trying to achieve in mind.

Saying 'just ignore him let him see the kids in a contact center and don't pay your shared bills' is firm for some but not who I am or how I am trying to deal with this situation.

Coping mechanisms for when he makes me feel like shit or ( dare I say it) a bit of moral support and sympathy without loads of 'do as we say or you're failing' strings would be nice too.

I'm not going to stop him coming round and seeing the kids, they are the priority here.

AnyFucker Fri 18-Jul-14 17:06:25

At the risk of sounding patronising, do you think that pushing away the very people who try to help you has anything to do with the isolation of being in an abusive relationship ?

And if you do, what is it you think you are doing here on this thread ?

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 17:12:32

I think I've just posted what my intentions for starting this thread were.

It was not to be abused and told what to do further.

I am not good enough, message heard loud and clear. next time he has a go I will just keep it all to myself, clearly I can only post here if I am willing to destroy my childrens relationship with their father and leave my ex in a destitute position. I am not prepared to do those things so I will no longer post.

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 17:20:58

sorry but nobody is going to give you coping mechanisms for dealing with his abuse - the only way to deal with him is to have no contact.

And you stating that you are being abused here - well that is pretty outrageous. How come you are capable of telling us to sod off and yet you are an utter doormat to him. I think you are angry with the wrong target.

And no don't post if you don't like what people say - we are not going to mop your brow and tell you that you are doing the right thing, when clearly you are not.

FunkyBoldRibena Fri 18-Jul-14 17:22:27

You read one thing and interpret it as another.

We are saying you ARE good enough.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 17:44:32

I am actually not angry with anyone.

I am far too tired/busy/stressed out to be angry with anyone.

I have said REPEATEDLY why no contact does not work FOR US, I have said it would be ideal, I have said eventually that is how it should be (though I do still hope we can be friends and offer a family unit to the children) I have said all these things but as it stands I don't have the option of being no contact with him without it seriously altering the boys relationship with their father or my ability to work. Two things that I am working hard to protect.

If I have to take his shit from time to time to allow those things to stay then that is what I will do.

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 17:45:03

There was one person who suggested a contact centre as a possibility. Hardly what the thread was about.

We understand the September thing. But you can still have minimal contact with him till then

You have been suggested how to deal with his verbal abuse until September.

Up to you.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 17:51:48

And I have agreed with that Lweji the only posts I haven't agreed with are the ones telling me to stop all contact, to find alternative childcare for every weekend, to stop paying bills that are morally my responsibility and to not uphold my previous commitment to helping him until September.

Because I do need to do those things or I would just feel like a complete cunt and that isn't what I want at all. I spent 8 years trying to make this relationship work, I am not now going to stop trying to make things easy/smooth for the children. So far it has worked, they understand that daddy doesn't live here but he sees them once in the week and at weekends, them being well adjusted and not confused is paramount to me.

Parenting together was always one of our strong points and regardless of how we are romantically, we still grew these two wonderful children together and they are our main priority.

mindyourown1 Fri 18-Jul-14 18:14:27

But the children are not his priority if he is verbally abusing their mother in their own home are they? Pus he pays no maintenance either.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 18:16:36

He DOES pay maintenance! He gives me £240 a month which is the amount I owe him (less £30) for bills that WE TOOK OUT TOGETHER

I don't know how many more time I have to keep repeating the same stuff and no, I am not defending him before anyone jumps on that, I am defending MY life choices because I feel very attacked here.

I just wanted some support because he was a bastard to me, not told to change things I cannot feasibly change and then 'told off' when I show how/why I cannot change them. That is not supportive.

Enjoyingmycoffee1981 Fri 18-Jul-14 18:26:33

Icanhearyou, your frustration with this thread and your life in general is palpable. I feel for you. It is so easy to suggest the hard line online, but sometimes it is simply not appropriate and would benefit no one.

My advise is to leave this thread. It is not offering you what you wanted, and is unlikely to turn that way.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 18:35:00

Yes you're right, I can't do exactly what is expected of me so any support is removed, I can see that now and despite having next to nobody in RL to talk to about this stuff, in future when things happen I will just keep it to myself. Posting it on here to spend 2 days defending myself for not doing things in exactly the way someone else has done them is just too trying.

Its not because I still love him, want him back, want to defend him, choose to live like this etc etc

its because I am making decisions for my family that mean I can work, my children can see their father who they love and have happy times with their parents.

I am beaten and broken by the whole thing, choosing to end my marriage was so hard but so necessary and now all this shit and I literally have nowhere to turn just to talk about it, check I am not being a twat and have a bit of support.

I've tried AIBU, Chat and now Relationships, clearly there is nowhere on this board for me to just talk about my situation and how it is affecting me.

trufflehunterthebadger Fri 18-Jul-14 18:35:05

that leaves him with £200 to feed himself for a week, I wouldn't say that is particularly solvent

£50 per week for one single bloke is the bones of his arse ??? Are you having a giraffe ! I only have £85 and that's for 4 adults and a child !!

Lweji Fri 18-Jul-14 22:23:13

I had a very difficult time when breaking up with ex, to the point that I can't even allow unsupervised access.
There were threats and actual physical attacks.
I did have to have a very strict stance. Cutting all but the most basic contact about DS, whilst still trying to support ad encouraging contact between DS and his dad.
Trust me when I tell you that I have endured worst at this time.

I am explaining this background to say that 2 years on contact is civil, although still minimal.
But there's virtually no ranting at me, playing the victim or threats. Because he realised that his behaviour wasn't having the effect he wanted.

I fully understand your motivations and reasons.
However, surely you realise that you don't have to share a lot of time together and that you can reduce his opportunities to have a go at you.
We all agree that he's a bastard. And we offer suggestions, based on our experience, of how to reduce the abuse he subjects you to. Your children are still witnessing their mother being abused.
You can still have him at yours to take care of the children, when you are out. There is no need for the children to have you around at the same time.
And you can discuss things over mail or text. It is easier. You can read them when you want and when you're ready.

But, if you post you will always get suggestions, with which you may agree or not. You don't have to do anything that is said here, nor you have to justify yourself really.

Unfortunately there's very little opportunity for a big hug or hand holding that could actually make you feel better.
What the boards offer are different points of view, possible solutions and, hopefully, the idea that there's light at the nd of the tunnel from people who've been there.
But you will also be told if some of what you are doing is mostly knocking your head on the wall for nothing.

I hope you do take the advice that you feel is relevant for you and that you have a more peaceful life.
Worst case scenario, from September. smile

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 22:51:43

Lweji that sounds awful, I am so sorry you had to go through that and well done for being strong and getting past it.

It is worlds away from my experience though, my ex is by all accounts a gentle man who would never lay a finger on me (or anyone) our issues come from basic incompatibility and his laziness in sorting it out.

I was always willing to improve things, to work on stuff, to go to couple counselling, to try different things in bed, to really work on it but he was just not there with me.

It has eroded my confidence, I am about 8st heavier than I was when I got together, I have been unable to look at myself in the mirror, so I had to call it a day, it just got too much and I stopped being afraid of being alone.

I want, just once in my life to feel that someone really, really loves me. that they think I am beautiful and that I give them a warm feeling. I know I will never have that from this man.

The comments and the arguments are few and far between, mostly it IS fine but they grate on me so much that I do rant about them (not that I will anymore, on here at least)

He wouldn't ever hurt me, he has made some stupid comments, like about my new diet being 'too expensive' because I am eating different food from the children and eating lots of salad (too much salad apparently) but I absolutely put him straight on it and told him in no uncertain terms that I would not put up with him making comments on my diet or put me down about my looks.

Since then he has not done that. Since our argument on Wednesday he has not mentioned money, he has not been off with me about things and it is a lot easier. I am sure that as we separate more and more, there will be more and more road bumps that we will have to get over, but I will be firm with him and he will accept that.

He is a great father and I firmly believe that he will be a great partner to someone that he loves enough to put the effort into being with. That person wasn't me though, I need more.

bibliomania Fri 18-Jul-14 23:32:43

Hi, ICan, I wonder if you've tried posting on this thread. I think you've had good advice here, but I do get that perhaps you didn't want advice, but more of a hand-holding. I think that thread is more about women who are in the process of disentangling themselves from a relationship, and there's a sense of emerging from the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) together. Here you've had people who are perhaps longer out of a bad relationship and perhaps we keep urging to you to be in a place you're just not in.

I'm sorry you feel criticized, and I don't think that's the way most of the posts were intended. You're clearly a generous and honorable person. The important thing is that you are that way for yourself (and your dcs) and not for him. You will learn to be indifferent to him - it just takes a bit of time and distance.

ICanHearYou Fri 18-Jul-14 23:52:57

I don't think that I can join in with women who have been seriously emotionally abused...

Some of the things he has done have been emotionally abusive but they are borne from a lack of love and attraction for me, a lack of understanding about how delicate people and esteem is and a lot of hurt on his side regarding no longer being a resident member of the family.

Its obviously bloody tough for him and he is being unreasonable some of the time. But we will work through it and I hope be firm friends one day again.

Anniegetyourgun Sat 19-Jul-14 00:12:08

I didn't mean you shouldn't let him look after his own children and I'm sorry if anything I said made you feel "got at". What I meant was, as long as he knows you have an alternative he's less likely to try any leverage. But it sounds as though you have adequate leverage of your own with which to counteract it.

I'm very sorry you feel bullied off this board. I think there are so many cases of women who just don't see they are being taken advantage of that a lot of us regulars are kind of geared towards downtrodden women needing to be shown what their rights are. You don't appear to fit into that mould. Not everyone has been that rough towards you, but pretty much everyone is thoroughly disapproving of your ex's behaviour and attitude. (Very much like XH's by the sound of it, although I had to stop letting him come into my house because he started getting ideas. But then my boys are much older and haven't needed babysitting for years.)

Good luck, and keep on not standing for any nonsense.

ICanHearYou Sat 19-Jul-14 01:09:57

Thanks for your message Annie tbh I don't recall the names of most of the people who made comments towards me so I can't say whether or not your comments made me feel got at.

All I can say is that he is well aware of how seriously I will take it if he stops me being able to work, he knows that he has to keep things easy and nice in that respects and I think that he feels good knowing he is needed.

I don't take his shit, ever, if I do it is temporarily so that I can bring it up at a convenient moment like when the children are asleep or not with us.

He does listen though and he does take it on board, which is good. He needs to.

What I don't need is to be told to do a bunch of stuff that is practically impossible for me to do (like never have him in the house etc etc) and then be told that I am 'weak' for not doing those things. That is not the case here at all, everybodies situations are different and advice should be given based on what the asker is going through not what the giver has been through.

As with the marriage, if it gets unbearable or begins to negatively affect the children then I will absolutely change whatever I need to but at the moment the thing that would most affect the children is a severe drop in income back to where we were 6 months ago desperately trying to make ends meet with no hope of doing so.

I won't be posting about the situation again because frankly the endless questions and demands that I justify how I live are too draining and I already feel drained by it all. As I said I've tried AIBU, Chat and now Relationships and the response has been much of a muchness, I am not doing enough, I am not good enough and I have to completely cut him out to ever be a real person in the eyes of some of the people here.

It is not that I am Not hearing that, I am hearing it but I disagree with it and that is my perogative. Unfortunately it means I am unable to seek support here and I do understand that, it is loud and clear but I do think it is a shame.

Lweji Sat 19-Jul-14 07:09:30

Oh dear.
You are falling for the trap of the strong, take no crap, and weak abused person.
The strong people are abused because they think they can handle it. Like me and like you.
It takes greater strength to recognise that we cannot handle it without great expense to us.

I feel very sad for you that you're not listening here and I'm not sure why.

The gist of the thread is not for you to lose income or for the children never to see their dad.
It's basically for you to parent at different times.

I understand that you've had to develop a very thick skin and only listen to yourself because of his abuse. Don't think you were less abused than others here.
That you feel so much anger inside and shut down to the point of not registering the sensible advice, preceding to concentrate on the inadequate advice, is testimony to how badly he has affected you.

You can mostly dissociate from him, without losing income and with the children not losing contact. But you have to be able to let go of your need to be in control.
Throughout two threads you keep making me think of a codependent person. I have been reluctant to mention it because I don't feel it fully applies to you, but there are some common traits and it might be useful for you to ne aware of what it is.
Look up codependency. It's the need to be needed, to control through serving and being useful.
Again, not saying it fully applies to you, but I suspect you'll recognise something there.

And get the prayer of St Francis and read it a few times. I think it will help you.

JeanSeberg Sat 19-Jul-14 07:36:50

There's none so blind as those who can't see.

Hissy Sat 19-Jul-14 07:57:09

AIBU, Chat, Relationships, threads in all three tell you the same?

There'll be a reason for that.

This abusive man is occupying far too much time and space in your life.

He's not respecting you at all, and he's crapping on the hand that is still feeding him.

You need to replan your life, find a job that doesn't need him to comply, or 'help' you out.

He's using these hooks to harm you.

That's why we're all telling you to stop the feeding, access to your home etc. He's still controlling you.

This is terrible for the kids, ut is warping their idea of what grownup is.

ICanHearYou Sat 19-Jul-14 09:30:06

Oh yes just 'find another job' because the three months it took to find this job were a pile of fun!

No I like my job, it is good for me and it is well timed for me.

People need to start responding to what I am ACTUALLY SAYING rather than what THEY have gone through.

I have ALREADY AGREED that spending less time with him would be better for us, particularly if he cannot stop speaking to me the way that he has done.

talking about me being 'angry inside' and 'unable to listen to people' is really cruel, I have listened to people I have tried to engage with people and when I do so I am told that is not okay and that I must just take advice and implement it to my life regardless of how little or much it applies to me.

Frankly if my friend came to me and said 'every time I try and speak with my partner about this issue that is affecting me, they make vague comments about something unrelated and if I try to discuss it I am told I am victimising myself or being blind or treated to a variety of passive-aggressive comments about my inner anger'

I would tell that friend that they were in an abusive relationship! Because this attitude towards people who do not conform is just nasty.

I have been with this man for nearly a third of my life and most of my adult life, we have two children together, yes of course its a huge bloody change not living together and doing everything together, it would be for anyone.

That doesn't mean I am dependant on him anymore than I am on the nursery who have the children in the day while I study and volunteer (so that I can get a better job in a year or two)

I really don't know what I am expected to say here, I have said that if there is ANYMORE of the nasty comments I will be cutting the small amount of contact I have with him down to nothing but when I am working.

I have said that in September he will be completely financially independent because I will not put up with it anymore.

I am listening to what you are all saying to me, I am responding to it but because I am relating it to my own experiences I am told off!

It is frightening that this is the 'help' that women receive here.

bigoldbird Sat 19-Jul-14 09:33:35

The only way to deal with this nonsense is to work out a brief answer and just repeat it until he goes away. The last time my ex tried this rubbish was after 10 years apart, he arranged to come over at 7 to see the children, turned up at 4 and we were out. He tried to give me hell, my reply, repeated until he stopped was 'You said you were coming at 7'. No need for further engagement.

Hissy Sat 19-Jul-14 13:39:26

You have a job that forces you to have your home intruded upon, your life ridiculed, and your food store depleted.

For that you have to seemingly suck up the twat coming anytime he pleases to verbally abuse you, andd extract more money from you.

You post multiple threads, they all say the same thing, and while you're fully able to put your pot down with us, you won't/can't with your ex.

We're not bounded by the precedents you've set in your life. So we can see that you are choosing to live like this.

You have a part time job that means you can't live your life, can't arrange alternative childcare, except with an entitled twat who wants to ruin your life.

Why on earth you don't just get office hours, pay for proper child care and take back control is beyond me. You spent months trying to get these hours? At this price? You must enjoy this misery some how, cos you won't do anything about it.

My ex would love to have the kind of space in my life as yours does, but I don't let him. He won't get to make a single comment about his 'lot' vs mine. Because I won't have it.

This prick insults you, harasses you and you feed him tea three times a week!

If you can't see what's idiotic here love, I can't see how your 'lot' will ever change.

So stop getting chippy with people who do want to see you free of this situation, and start going postal on the prick that's making all this mess!

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