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Is it true most men would rather be with women under 35?

(363 Posts)
adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 00:24:33

Unfortunately for me I have been reading a lot online on the "manosphere" recently and a lot about what men think about women ( or a certain kind of man). Talk about "Sexual market Value" which basically amount to women of 30+ are basically hideous monsters to men their own age and older. I see this to on dating websites where men mostly are prepared to date women 10 - 15 years younger but will often not even want to date women the same age as them!

In the press recently 2 high profile men Stephen Hendry and Rowan Atkinson have both left their wives for women half their age (both women are also dead ringers for the 1st wives!).

I find it really depressing. I understand that we can get attracted to other people but if you have a good marriage, if your man is getting love, sex, affection and friendship surely he will have no reason to stray right?

I just don't know. Perhaps I am just worried about getting older 40 in a few years and how will that affect my partners satisfaction with me?

It seems that even men who are happy and love their wives / partners can fall in love with someone else, someone younger and transfer their love and affection to another. I guess I just need to accept that nothing is ever certain in life.

Has anyone else read any of that manosphere stuff about women and SMV etc what do you think?

Stinkypinky73 Fri 18-Apr-14 00:35:10

My husband is 11 years younger than me and GOSH, I LOVE him and he loves me!! We are very happy and honestly, we grow older together as a partnership. Men who specify ages are pretty crap IME! They want a trophy wife and not a real life woman!

KissesBreakingWave Fri 18-Apr-14 00:36:54

Most men are under 35. Men over 35 tend to prefer women their own age. Except me. DP, if you're reading this, you've got six years, love.

eightandthreequarters Fri 18-Apr-14 00:40:18

I prefer men under 35. But I've grown rather fond of DH over the years, and reckon I won't dump him just because he's a long way past 35!

CheeryName Fri 18-Apr-14 00:41:01

Hmmm. I'm over 35. If that puts my husband off he hasn't told me yet. However if he was that shallow I would be well rid of him anyway.

lollerskates Fri 18-Apr-14 00:41:14

Blimey, what a lot of questions! Almost as if you were doing research! smile

Jellaby Fri 18-Apr-14 00:43:19

To quote my father 'I didn't find young women interesting when I was a young man, why would I want one now?'

It's not all men. It is men who are heavily concerned with appearing attractive and virile. I think we see it a lot because fame and the media pushes youth as the ideal onto men, and the weak minded get caught up in the fantasy.

AskBasil Fri 18-Apr-14 00:43:28

I think women need to educate themselves to not actually give a flying fuck about whether men prefer women under 35.

Because if you spend the majority of your life worrying that the man with whom you have thrown in your lot, for whom you may have given up your career and social network, will leave you for a younger model, then you are going to be a psychological car crash.

Which may be how the media would like women to be, but it is not in women's best interests. Fuck that. Be single and/ or a lesbian and/ or only have men in your life, who are worthy of you. That is, men who know you are full human beings and are with you because they value your friendship and love and companionship, not how much status being with you gives them with inadequate sexist other men.

Jellaby Fri 18-Apr-14 00:45:03

Xpost with Basil, but many of the same sentiments. Hits the nail on the head.

Well I am 36, and DP is 27. So not all men are shallow twats.

KellyHopter Fri 18-Apr-14 00:50:01

You know, surely, that the type of men who talk in those sorts of terms, along with the OD guys who'll date an 18yo but not a fellow 40yo, are losers?

They're a minority who make a lot of noise.

They are angry that women dare to choose not to fuck them. That they're not as engaging or smart, or interesting as their peers.

You don't want them, honestly. Let them carry on their embarrassing, pointless little campaign to convince themselves they're only single because of their ultra high standards.

They're deluded. And funny.

Millyblods Fri 18-Apr-14 00:54:11

I think men that leave wives for a younger identical model are trying to find what they had with their wives when they were both younger and carefree. Midlife crises type thing.

BOEUFster Fri 18-Apr-14 00:58:55

Stephen Hendry obviously has superb spatial awareness and hand-eye coordination, but he is not otherwise renowned in the brains department. And Rowan Atkinson is famously obsessed with sports cars, socially-awkward, and (I imagine) massively insecure and paranoid about his Mr Bean image. I wouldn't take either of them as representative of your ordinarily sensible bloke who doesn't warm his cockles by burning fifty quid notes.

And what Basil said.

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 00:59:05

Sorry all that stuff has been on my mind recently! I think you all have it right that these men are basically probably typing from their mothers basement outraged that women don't fall at their feet. Also that a lot of these men are not happy with older, mature, strong women who don't take their crap.

Perhaps this attitude is spearding due to the internet or seems more prevelent.

I really liked AskBasils view, I will try to take that on board.

KellyHopter Fri 18-Apr-14 01:01:53

Is it particularly prevalent? I wouldn't say so.

I think you need to stop read manosphere stuff, whatever it is.

KellyHopter Fri 18-Apr-14 01:02:07


adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:04:39

Kelly you are right, when I started reading it a while ago I was laughing at it but it got under my skin.

Then my mum turned 60 recently and my Dad said in jest "I don't want to be married to an old woman" it was a joke but my poor mun was so hurt and my Dad is a great guy.That bothered me too and just added to all the things worrying me.

TiggyKBE Fri 18-Apr-14 01:06:54

When your fridge is getting a bit old and knackered and isn't really up to the job any more, you get a new model to replace it. Men shouldn't be afraid of upgrading their wives now and then.


BOEUFster Fri 18-Apr-14 01:08:12

Here is an antidote to all that crap smile

Ignore Tiggy, he's just a very naughty boy...

KellyHopter Fri 18-Apr-14 01:13:17

Another antidote.

He's my age and I'd be far too young for him. If I was 10 years older I'd definitely be in with a chance of course.

Suzannewithaplan Fri 18-Apr-14 01:15:17

sure lots of men would like to be with younger women
equally sure lots of younger women wouldnt give them the time of day
so dream on grandad grin

Suzannewithaplan Fri 18-Apr-14 01:18:30

really OP what gives you the impression that men are necessarily the ones doing the 'hiring & firing'?
your ma shoulda shot back with 'and I dont want to be married to an old man' wink
if it's sauce for the goose....

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:19:47

I think I probabaly have low self esteem so it all seems reasonable to me. Lisa Bonet I ain't.

Flexiblefriend Fri 18-Apr-14 01:20:53

The way DH tells it, when he was young, say 25, he fancied women aged 18 to 25 ish. Now he is in his 40's he fancies women from 18 to mid 40's. He seems to think its a great thing as when he gets really old women of any age will be attractive to him. grin

LyndaCartersBigPants Fri 18-Apr-14 01:21:42

Aw BOEUF that's lovely!

My DP is 35, I'm 40. He values me for everything I am and for what we have together, not for the date on my birth certificate. He is very vain an preoccupied with what others think of him, but that doesn't extend to wanting a younger woman.

His ex was the same age as him, mine was 6 years older. It really doesn't matter. If he ever went off with someone else, younger or not, it really would be the stupidest thing he ever did, I am awesome!

Grennie Fri 18-Apr-14 01:22:36

You know, any man that would do that is not worth giving a fuck about.

Suzannewithaplan Fri 18-Apr-14 01:24:08

ok, I know we all have our insecurities, so do men, and broadly speaking I reckon men need women more than vice versa (they are the ones who benefit most from being a couple)
So please dont feel as if men always have the upper hand, they dont.

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 01:25:56

Maybe those guys are just arseholes.


When I met my husband he was 24. I was 31.

Before that, I met a bunch of pricks, who just wanted someone stupid.

Ah, finally, I met DH.

neiljames77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:30:54

I think I'd have a job finding anything in common with a woman under 35.
Half of it would be me feeling paranoid and insecure. If I was with a 30 year old, I'd be thinking, "in 10 years, she'll still be a young woman and I'll be an old bastard".

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:42:17

Neil I think you are right about having something in common with a woman and wanting someone you can relate to at a similer stage of life. Personally I don't find guys who are much younger attractive in a wanting to date them kind of way, they might be handsome and sweet but they always seem too much like kids to me and I'd feel a bit pervy. Obviously though all that goes out the window when you meet someone you just click with. That is part of what I don't get all the criteria people pre-apply why not just keep an open mind?

Perhaps some men aren't interested in the mental or emotional connection. Seriously some men talk about women as if they are merely useful for sex and that is all. Some men rich enough do just that look at Jimmy Page the guitarist, he has been married several times but never gets past 35 years old with any of them and trades them right in for a younger model.

I guess I should be grateful that most men like this are self selecting themselves out of the running for mature single women.

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 01:46:33

You might be on to something there, neil, if your age is the same as your 77.

I was single and childfree when I met DH. I had been divorced, from a man, 3 years older, who determined he never wanted children and in an on/off relationship with a man a year younger but not ready. He didn't become a father until he was 40 but was then married to a woman 7 years younger than he.

Well, a percentage of men may want women under 35 simply because the men want to have children and women over 35 are likely to be less fertile.

But a lot of men don't want children, don't want any more children or don't want children now, and there are quite a few men (or so I have found) who are very keen on older women because older women either can't have children, have had all the children they want, or never wanted any. In my late 40s I have found it surprisingly easy to pull really rather gorgeous men much younger than me grin for that sort of reason.

Suzannewithaplan Fri 18-Apr-14 01:51:27

I think we can leave ageing rock gods out of it Adjani, they're not exactly typical, no doubt there are also ageing rock goddesses who go for younger men grin

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 01:51:50

There is truth in that, Solid. Definitely no more kiddies for me.

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:52:26

SolidGoldBrass, are these men interested in a long term relationship with you or just dating? Obviously it also depends on you and what you want but for me I want commitment.

neiljames77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:53:14

Well the likes of Jimmy Page don't want a relationship, they want a trophy. It can't be nice for him knowing that these women are with him for all the wrong reasons.(not that I feel sorry for him)

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 01:53:44

Well, there's the rub.

I stopped, at 31, looking in the wrong places, tbh.

FloraFox Fri 18-Apr-14 01:53:46

adjani if you see the words "sexual market value" read that as a useful marker that the guy is to be avoided at all costs. As with any mention of red/blue pills, game or PUA, it's a term only used by pathetic losers.

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:54:01

Suzanne I agree they are not typical but maybe they are just doing what many would do if they had the chance?

I know I'm being sill now, should just get to bed!

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 01:56:01

But for me at that time, I was looking for long-term commitment and family.

I'm married, but if I weren't, I would be open to anything and content to play along because I have had all the children I want and marriages, so in a different situation if I had not had all this.

TristanandIsoldeareoff Fri 18-Apr-14 01:56:03

1. No

2. You know those uggos sitting in a van flicking through their Daily Mails and Suns going nah mate, I wouldn't have Cheryl Cole, she's too skinny.? Those uggos can afford laptops now, and call themselves the "manosphere".

As a rule of thumb, anyone who has to go to the Internet and make a point about bleating on "my opinion, as a member of X group" is probably an outsider of that group - so wholly unmasculine (take a pick: smoking, height, weight, job) and IRL less desirable than a piece of shit on a ballgown.

3. Just no.

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:58:27

Neil, yes re Jimmy Page and other rich men with trophy wives e.g. Wayne Rooney when Coleen kicked him out after he was caught cheating he said she could leave if she wanted that there were 100's of girls just waiting to take her place. She came back of course.

I don't know how they do it, its like she is bought and paid for so he can do what he likes because as long as he keeps her in the lifestyle she expects he is keeping up his end of the bargin and she know it. On the other hand he knows that if he weren't a football star she would never have looked twice at him .... grim.

neiljames77 Fri 18-Apr-14 01:59:50

Expatinscotland - I'm 47. The 77 in my username is very misleading. I might change it. Or were you saying I was 77?

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 02:00:22

Would she not look at him? There are plenty of women here who do, and she's been with him since she was about 15. I know a lot of women who put up with all sorts from men they have been with from that age.

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 02:01:06

I thought born in 1977, neil!

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 02:01:52

No, I didn't think you were 77. My dad is. You would not find him on MN wink.

faracrosstheroad Fri 18-Apr-14 02:02:29

I think this perception is out there, sometimes. But here's how I think it actually pans out. A case study of our older Lotharios.

Two former colleagues in London: in their late 30's, only dated 20 somethings (often foreigners). So could claim they were desirable to that demographic. Indeed, seemed to have some success.

But -another way of looking at it - it was more turning a predicament into a virtue - because women who were more at their level (so who "got" them and could "place" them) were phasing them out?

It wasn't youth that was attractive: it was that 20-somethings weren't socially adept enough at to recognize these guys weren't all that? Or didn't care? These younger women were seeing them as someone for attention and support who had the financial clout to take them out on nice dates. Not a realistic partner.

A 22 year old globetrotting Japanese student is not looking to have babies and settle down. So she'd be their lover, let them buy her dinner and show her round town. In THEIR eyes they had the option of these women, who were shaming all their jealous frumpy old English sisters.

But these guys weren't being taken seriously? Their young "girlfriends" would always end up "getting back with an ex" or "cultural issues, my mother won't approve of you" or having "commitmentphobe issues".
If the guys suggested maybe visiting her in her next country or whatever, they'd get blank looks.

Nothing blatantly wrong with these guys, just yes, they'd done Oxbridge: yes they had ok City jobs. But both had nightmare mothers, weren't conventionally masculine, and since those uni days hadn't moved forwards as their peers had?

So trying to compensate by finding a Miss Perfect to build their self-esteem, give them a dream life, protect their precious ego/feelings (at not quite being as good as their peers) and basically turn them into a man.

(All you single over 35 year old women: you've had a lucky escape, methinks).

Our two heroes? One went to the Phillipines to get a wife. One also moved abroad and got married there: he is still under thumb of his mother, and soon to be divorced and sent back to the UK (oh dear).

Still, looked happy for a while. They are both still presumably mediocre and frumpy, and the women (age/looks/nationality etc) are irrelevant to the equation.

So life goes on...

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 02:05:13

I am sure he was totally into her and asking her out all the time and she kept turning him down and then the day he got picked up by a football scout she said yes.

its all just celebrity gossip but I am really only using them as an illustration and I hope I'm not right and that they do love each other however he did indeed welcome her to leave him as he could easily fill her shoes with a new women.

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 02:07:19

I was ready to go it alone, when it came to having children, or to co-parent with a man who was homosexual but wanted children, of whom I had met some. Believe me, I was living in a place, it was full of pricks! I just didn't have time for it anymore.

I got made redundant from my job with a payout and I thought, 'Fuck this! I'm outta here. If it pans out, maybe I meet someone, fine. If not, I'll find a way to go for it (because I wanted a child).'

And just stopped trying.

adjani77 Fri 18-Apr-14 02:09:40

Well yes there is the theory that is a man is still single at 35+ especially if he has never had a long term relationship, been married that there is something wrong with them. Personally I don't like to generalise, I'm sure its true in some cases but people who are single in their late 30's are probably single for all kinds of reasons maybe even out of sheer shyness.

expatinscotland Fri 18-Apr-14 02:12:28

What reasons, though?

I'm 43 and my husband is 36. The age gap isn't even one and never was. BUT, when we met were on the same page about what we wanted and open about it very early on.

I guess it just depends what you want.

ItsSpringBaby Fri 18-Apr-14 02:14:21

I've learned that very often what men claim they want and fantasize about and what they can get and end up with are two different things. In a lot of these guys minds all young women are fresh, look like supermodels and will fall at their feet. The reality is not so fantastic as we all know.

I dated a childless guy who was turning 40 (he lied about his age) when I was 22/23. The age gap was more than obvious, he was set in his ways, was fighting some sort of mental and physical mid-life crisis and tried way too hard to stay 'in the know'. Just pathetic really. It lasted about a year before his continuing jealousy of my youth killed things, and I got fed up of him being a moany old git.

As another example I know a man (29) who is model-like handsome and was married to a woman who was close to a decade older, and - this is me being a total bitch - is no looker and is not in the best shape. She left him in the end, but he still loves her and has never moved on despite having his fair share of young women drooling over him. So you never know really...

neiljames77 Fri 18-Apr-14 02:21:29

Rooney is living proof that there is someone out there for everyone. Maybe Coleen has a fetish for blokes with a face like a boiled bollock.

You can't build a relationship on something as shallow and superficial as money, looks or age. There'd always be doubts and suspicion.

Jellaby Fri 18-Apr-14 03:58:08

I think Colleen has a fetish for a comfortable life and C list stardom!

jamiemars Fri 18-Apr-14 04:13:28

Who really cares what men want. I am so sick of hearing about what men want. It is really nauseating. Women should focus on what they want.
From what I know, there is someone out there for everybody. Even 00 pound people, midgets, autistic people, and people with severe personality disorders find mates. So there is hope for everyone.
If you are a 45 year old woman, why would you want a man who only cares about a younger body anyway. That is pretty shallow.
What if you are a young trophy wife and get cancer or get some horrible affliction and lose your hair and looks? Will your man divorce you?

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 18-Apr-14 04:16:03

Op I'm familiar with the manosphere. I think it can be a little depressing , but don't forget smv affects men as well. I'm 39 and I don't want to go out with a out of shape 50 year old , and I don't think anyone else does really. The problem is it's written for men and there's lots about gaming ect and being an alpha prick. Nearly all contributions are from men so your probably getting a view of how men think that your not familiar with. It's uncomfortable reading.It's called red pill veiw , and anyone who reads it is guarenteed to feel depressed and sort of what's the point. Men included.

The answer is to be the best version of yourself you can be. I don't agree with a lot of the phrases , or some of the ideas , but I do think that really , this is how the dating , marriage world works whether we like it or not.

Have you read mmsl? That's a much more gentler version for both men and women. I'd recommend it if you haven't read it. Most people believe in unconditional love , these sort of books.challenge that and I don't think that's always a bad thing.

lavenderhoney Fri 18-Apr-14 08:57:37

But hasn't this always been so? Its not a new thing men push off with younger women.

Its two different things you're talking about op-

1- a dh who sees your face in bright sunlight and thinks " blimey, she's old" and leaves
2- od which has age ranges and all on looks at first.

You have to just be yourself and hope that the tossers pass you by in their search for a woman who is younger than them regardless of their personality and compatibility.

Simplesusan Fri 18-Apr-14 09:35:00

Tbh a lot of people on od are looking for their ideal partner.
Many/most of them , both men and women, have come out of a long term relationship and now want an ideal man/ woman.

I was in this position and had standards that I wasn't prepared to compromise on.

I had been married for a long time, had my dcs and no intention of having any more. Not particularly interested in marriage but wanted to go on dates/ share experiences with someone who interested me and who I found attractive.

My ideal fantasy is Brad Pitt in his Thelma and Louise days, the scene where he and Geena Davis are in her hotel room and her swipes everything off the dressing table and shags her senseless.

When I think about that I'm not fantasising doing it with an overweight, ugly short, bald ,smelly ,old guy trust me.

As you were.

Grennie Fri 18-Apr-14 09:55:25

Jamie - I agree, who cares what men want, focus on what you want.

I know many women who are with men much less better looking, much less considerate, much less intelligent than they are. To hell with what men want. Look at what you want. Many women can do much better than they have.

Grennie Fri 18-Apr-14 09:57:57

And many women when they leave or are left by Hasbands not good enough for them in the first place, find they are happier as a result.

balenciaga Fri 18-Apr-14 09:58:36

What a strange question

MadeMan Fri 18-Apr-14 09:59:43

Online dating certainly doesn't help asking people to specify an age range and you can't blame men for hedging their bets by selecting a lower age limit to start from. It's just like trying to cover as many squares as possible on a roulette table with your handful of chips.

Twinklestein Fri 18-Apr-14 10:06:29

How many 35 year old women actually want to be with 50 year old men?

I encouraged a single 43 year old male friend to join and instructed him to go for women in their early 30s because he really wants kids. But it turned out that most of these women had filters on their profiles and were only looking for men under the age of 35.

Some men would like to be with Scarlett Johansson, doesn't mean it's ever going to happen.

Velocirapture Fri 18-Apr-14 10:14:16

Who cares what men want? As a general rule 25 year old stunners are not going to entertain a 40 plus divorce..... Unless they have money or status and that is a completely different ball game, for both genders.

MadeMan Fri 18-Apr-14 10:22:04

"In the press recently 2 high profile men Stephen Hendry and Rowan Atkinson have both left their wives for women half their age"

Yes and don't forget Lembit Opik, who left Sian Lloyd for a Cheeky Girl. wink

It's very true that the sort of men who go on about wanting beautiful young women are generally losers, OP. So why would you want one of them in the first place?

WitchWay Fri 18-Apr-14 11:51:35

DH has a friend who is late 40s, he has always chosen women in their twenties as girlfriends, he lusts after teenagers hmm & once a woman is over 30 he sees them as too old. He acts like a spoilt teenager himself in lots of ways. He has a teenage son from a relationship when he was 30 (GF was 18/19) & doesn't want any more children or even stepchildren. He just can't see that what he wants is more or less impossible - I suspect he'll end up alone & bitter still fancying inappropriately young women

Simplesusan Fri 18-Apr-14 13:30:30

With regards to famous men, you only see one side of the picture.
How do you know that it wasn't the wife who wanted to end the relationship?

Don't believe everything you read I the press.

I'm sure it is often part of the divorce settlement that the woman gets exactly what she wants so long as she keeps quiet.

Harrison ford reportedly gave his ex wife millions and let her take anything she wanted in return for her silence, he knew how damaging a bitter ex could be and did't want his career to suffer due to it.

Again concentrate on what you want out of a relationship.

Rebecca2014 Fri 18-Apr-14 13:47:04

Too be honest it scares me that my husband will leave me for an younger woman, so many men do it and it really sucks...makes me wonder if women over an certain age find it hard to get an new partner because majority of the men are going for the younger women?

It does actually make me hate the male sex...a bit...a lot.

weatherall Fri 18-Apr-14 13:54:14

I've noticed this.

Guys I went to Uni with are now dating women who are the same age as the ones they dated at Uni.10+ years ago!

I find it creepy.

I don't know what these young women see in these icky old men.

Uptheanty Fri 18-Apr-14 13:56:42

It all seems to be stacked in favour of the male.

A successful male will be very attractive to a young female, society values all that he is. Strong, experienced, respected men who earn a good salary...probably considerably more than their female counterparts.

It is quite attractive to young women who trade off on what they bring to the table, mostly their looks, young, fresh, taut and usually in awe. Great for a mans status. The young woman has all that society values in a woman.

Unfortunately for us older ladies, we get to do all the hard graft and are completely undervalued & constantly criticised.

Fairylea Fri 18-Apr-14 13:58:55

I actually think it's something else as well...

I'm finding as I approach 35 that I am more self confident, more opinionated, know my own self more and I won't entertain people who quite frankly piss me off. Unless I have a taxi door to door I'm not going to teeter about in ridiculous high heels just to make my legs look longer as I would have done in my 20s. I don't care if I carry a bit of extra weight. I'd rather eat cake than run. And if people don't like me for that or don't fancy me for that then I don't give a shit.

I'm happily married now but I've done marriage before and been online dating and everything else. I just feel as I've got older I've become far more confident.

I don't think SOME men - like the Stephen hendrys of the world - like that. It's too much for them.

Not all men prefer women under 35 but I do think a fair few of them think they're less hard work because they are softer and less self aware / confident sometimes. Not always. Plenty of brilliant and self confident women under 35 too but I think for a lot of us it takes time to find comfort in our own skins.

jamiemars Fri 18-Apr-14 14:01:53

I love your post!

jamiemars Fri 18-Apr-14 14:03:25

My last message (I love your post) was meant for Basil.

sittinginthedockofthebay Fri 18-Apr-14 14:44:43

Wasn't there someone 40ish posting on the singles thread a couple years ago about how much he wanted "spark", and how he got divorced cause his wife hadn't paid enough attention to what he called "the relationship" him him HIM?

He had this intense list of what he (short, smoker, two kids) would accept and not accept. No gold diggers, they had to fit in with his (very precise) life plans, they had to accept that he liked to go out and make new female friends etc etc. He was the big man.

It was like a car crash, I can't believe someone would be that lacking in self awareness.

And then getting disappointed because all these cool new women he was dating and who were paying him attention (twenty somethings included) weren't interested in hearing his probably tedious childhood anecdotes and were also finding him weird and tiresome and attention seeking? grin

All these twenty something women he was having what he called "relationships" with seemed to be "okish older man I can experiment with and let buy me meals a bit" whilst he was like OH MY GOD THEY LIKE ME SO MUCH, WE HAVE AMAZING CHEMISTRY.

His crowning glory: the woman he boasted about "seducing" then was "erm, no you can't come live with me in France". His reaction was to stand there screaming about how she'd hurt his feelings and why couldn't she call him up crying and begging for him to live with her. Dear oh dear.

Minion100 Fri 18-Apr-14 14:48:59

I think this is a harsh generalisation. The man I am currently with is 40 and (I am 36) and he would not date anyone under 35 because he feels like women become sexier and more interesting / stable after that age. I think many men might go for the better bodies (mine was a lot better at 20 than it is at 36) or maybe even the lack of world-wisdom but I think this says something very worrying about the man. I think men who trade in older wives for younger ones are just trying to feel younger themselves. They are afraid of getting older. Anyone who doesn't see the value in growing old with someone is missing out really.

Jan45 Fri 18-Apr-14 16:10:22

Older women (I include myself) are far more attractive than their male equivalents, we take more pride in our appearance and still have it, I think that's why there's been a rise in the cougar phenomenum lol. I applaud it, women have been put down because of their age for years.

As for men preferring younger models, yeah perhaps they do but then so do older women. In my city, you very rarely see an attractive man over the age of 45 whereas there are gorgeous middle aged women all over the place, it's us who have the raw deal not them!

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Apr-14 16:11:51

Im 40 and have always preferred older men.
At 18 I had a 3 month fling with a 41 year old man (the guy who showed me what my clitoris was for)
DH is 23 years older than me (this situ is well documented on here.)
Ex OM was 17 years older than me (the chemistry there was amazing)
All of them were either on benefits or low wages.

Older men still appeal. Less likely to expect a woman to shave her pubes for one thing.

MadeMan Fri 18-Apr-14 16:14:30

Older women do have nicer clothes, make-up, fake tan and the hair salons to help them with their appearance though. Men have the gym and Just For Men grey cover.

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Apr-14 16:21:02

In my 20s I was a size 28 Got down to a 12/14 in my early 30s Am currently a size 16 having come down from a size 22 last year.

Ive obviously got things completely arse about face tbugrin

Mind you the sort of bloke on those forums would complain about a bit of loose skin as well.

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Apr-14 16:21:50

I don't do fake tan It doesn't appeal to me and never has.

MNwidowed Fri 18-Apr-14 16:25:27

I find it incredibly seedy and some what abusive if a man can only find women under 35 attractive. Especially when that man is in his late 40's plus

MadeMan Fri 18-Apr-14 16:27:44

I don't like fake tan either, it hides the complexion and I think makes people look older somehow.

Something I like about older women is their natural complexion, wrinkles, lines, freckles and all.

MelonadeAgain Fri 18-Apr-14 18:02:37

Theres a lot of talk about this but I doubt these men would turn down a woman over 35 who was incredibly attractive.

I think people in general are always likely to be tempted by someone else who is more attractive, active or fun to be with if their relationship has gone a bit stale or if they are that way inclined. That often means someone younger, but there are plenty of examples of men being attracted by women older than their current partners.

I say this as someone who has, throughout my life, pretty much exclusively only ever been asked out on dates by younger men. I find as I get older, the age of men attracted to me stays much the same, there are many, many men in their twenties attracted to older women. But I'm not single.

nondisperar Fri 18-Apr-14 19:57:28

I think Our Friends In the North summed it up: Nicky, who is an older man, is seduced by the beautiful young art student. Which confirms the "younger woman, older man" thing.

But she's basically getting her kicks out of a fantasy, based on hotel rooms and him playing Dominant Older Man and the trouble with fantasies is that they can be fun but aren't real? So when he turns up to see her unannounced (and she's actually in the pub with her friends her own age) she's incredibly embarrassed by him, and the whole thing.

I don't think anyone has any issue with age gap relationships (whether older man, younger woman or vice versa) which have happened naturally.

I think anyone who tends to seek out companions or lovers amongst younger people, or people who aren't peers, is a bit weird though?

I suspect the manosphere is implying that men are high fiving each other for getting younger women?

But I think most professional, well educated types would actually be embarrassed by this - they want someone who is socially compatible, not someone where everyone is thinking "fnar fnar, well I bet SHE'S after his money"? People like Hugh Hefner and Bernie Ecclestone are comedy characters. No self-respecting man wants to be part of a comedy couple. If some guy started up on "oh I bagged an eighteen year old", I think most of his masculine, normal friends would cringe inside on his behalf.

I've actually been in work situations where I'm out with an older man/colleague so if we're going out for drinks or on a trip it looks like we might be a couple.

I'm a nubile thing who looks young for her age, and its weird the looks you get, the slightly creepy comments from barmen (you even get older men then coming onto you as if "oh she's with him, so she'll be up for anything")? shock

What I mean is I don't think younger women feel they get any social status whatsoever from being with an older man (especially if he looks his age or older) - you just get to feel very, very embarrassed!

HolidayCriminal Fri 18-Apr-14 20:09:18

Most men are opportunistic & lazy, they'll take what falls into their laps rather than get hung up on an ideal image.

ParkingFred Fri 18-Apr-14 20:21:15

Most men aren't 'opportunistic and lazy'.

Some men are shallow, as are some women.

The vast majority of men I know are decent people who love their wives, even those women have the temerity to be ageing.

Of course a young woman or man is going to be more attractive than an older one, that's the bare bones of anthropology. Thankfully most adults build relationships based on more than fleeting attraction.

olathelawyer05 Fri 18-Apr-14 23:54:40

But I think most professional, well educated types would actually be embarrassed by this - they want someone who is socially compatible

Sexually, men typically want younger females. This is just evolutionary biology at work. Remember that 'society' and what we deem OK 'socially' is a construction - a form of control. Just because a man 'socially' hangs out with a woman in his supposed age-group, doesn't mean he doesn't 'want' the younger woman.

People like Hugh Hefner and Bernie Ecclestone are comedy characters

...or is this just a way for you to feel better about them being able to do things you don't approve of as regards their relations with women? I mean lets face it, Hugh and Bernie don't have to be afraid of what society thinks. Ironically, that's what having status in society does for you - you can bend society's 'rules'.

"No self-respecting man wants to be part of a comedy couple"

Ah, the 'No true Scotsman' control fallacy. I suppose the women also have no self-respect?

superstarheartbreaker Sat 19-Apr-14 00:05:42

I just turned 36 and on my birthday I pulled a 21 year old hottie.
He couldn't believe his luck!

Grennie Sat 19-Apr-14 00:06:35

Actually the idea that men naturally want younger women because of evolutionary biology, makes no sense. Men's sperm degenerates in quality. An older man is much less likely to have sperm that will create a feutus that, that is born, and born healthy.

Twinklestein Sat 19-Apr-14 00:06:51

Men may want younger women, but can they pull them? Mostly no.

Young women want young fit men, not greying, balding, paunchy depressing middle-aged farts trying to recapture their youth.

Evolutionary biology works both ways and recent research showed that older men are more likely to produce children with autism, schizophrenia and ADHD.

Women spend their lives 13 onwards being hit on by delusional older guys. It doesn't get less annoying with age.

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 00:10:15

Hugh Hefner and Bernie Ecclestone would never feel true love though. Maybe that doesn't matter to them I suppose.

WheresMeTeaCup Sat 19-Apr-14 01:15:36

People now tend to go for mates at similar educational level: so couples meet at uni, or at work (a way of having continuity in ones life).

Most professionals value career and sleep over bar-hopping. Especially if they're at a senior level or relatively ambitious, a stable personal life is very important. Maybe the caveman has been bred out of us smile.

Of course, like a lot have noted, younger men and women can look attractive, but that's about as far as it goes. If you've spent a long time training hard for a career/building up a good life, then you don't want to jeopardize that by getting involved with someone who isn't at the same stage of life/in a similar social group.

I see doctors marrying other doctors crazy lot but that's another thread , academics with other academics, lawyers marrying other lawyers or they'll end up sitting in their bedroom pretending to be one on the Internet .

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Apr-14 01:20:26

It probably doesn't matter to them neil. tbusad

WheresMeTeaCup Sat 19-Apr-14 01:22:46

Funnily enough, the one person I know of who did do the running off with the younger model thing, was viewed as a bit of a joke in his (all-male) workplace even before he did it they've now split up, so the course of true love sadly didn't run smooth

Not some debonair type flouting societies rules, but just a frumpy weird guy with a chip on his shoulder who is now a frumpy weird guy who can add sex with a younger women to his CV . Perhaps they were happy for a while.

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 02:04:51

Grennie - how does the degeneration of his sperm stop a man 'wanting' a younger mate? - it just means that younger mates would be weary of 'accepting' his sperm so to speak. Indeed, what you say actually supports my point, being that it is natural in a sexual/reproductive sense to want to go for younger, and of course age is not in itself a barrier to male reproduction. I can't see why this is controversial.

WheresMeTeaCup - the caveman is present. For some people its closer to the surface than with others. The drive to get ahead in 'society' IS the caveman. Law and order means we can't typically just beat each other over the head for what we want, but the beast will always out.

neiljames77 - How do you know that Hugh & Bernie will never know true love? You cant assume this just because their relationships don't conform to what society (you?) wants.

VenusDeWillendorf Sat 19-Apr-14 02:48:56

I think men like johns depp are caught up in their own bolleaux, and are driven to having more kids.
That's why they dump the mother of their existing children, and go off with some 20 year old in order to impregnable her and spawn more kids who they will eventually leave for a younger model...... And so on.....

Luckily for us all johnny depp's are few and far between! He seems to be in some odd, bandana clad time warp.

VenusDeWillendorf Sat 19-Apr-14 02:50:35

Sorry about the typos, blardy auto correct.

specwecdec Sat 19-Apr-14 04:53:28

I always visualize men who use the internet to enthusiastically discuss their Theories Of Dating Women as wearing things like THIS

It represents how they are lone, brave voices in the feminazi world we live in.

DiophantineSolved Sat 19-Apr-14 05:03:44

"the beast will out"


DiophantineSolved Sat 19-Apr-14 05:07:10

sorry, "the beast will always out" grin grin

ClareCyclesIn Sat 19-Apr-14 05:20:31


ClareCyclesIn Sat 19-Apr-14 05:41:09

OP: water settles at its own level: just go out and date and see who is naturally attracted to you, and vice-versa.

Most of us who feel we're in decent, progressive, supportive relationships didn't have to 'try too hard' or over-analyse or do the hard sell to get into them.

Don't take anyone's 'advice' on what is more or less attractive (in terms of age, looks etc) to the opposite sex or you'll end up tying yourself in knots.

If you meet anyone indicating 'women should be afraid you're not going to meet anyone decent so you need to settle for ME' then he's probably weird or resentful, and should be avoided.

MadeMan Sat 19-Apr-14 09:53:08

"I always visualize men who use the internet to enthusiastically discuss their Theories Of Dating Women as wearing things like THIS "

I have it in raspberry.

balenciaga Sat 19-Apr-14 10:01:05


I am 34, dh is 43, even though he's older will he still go off me in a years time?

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 10:41:26

balenciaga - Honestly, who know. I really wouldn't worry about it.

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 10:47:15


AskBasil Sat 19-Apr-14 10:48:59

I love the way people who want to argue sexist shit, always assume that people's instincts for sex are stronger than their instincts for love, family, social status, security, companionship, safety etc.

Sex is one aspect of our lives. Only the simple-minded (and/ or sexists) believe it is the most important.

DavidFlattenborough Sat 19-Apr-14 11:18:07

Any guy who uses the phrase "sexual market value" has probably never touched a woman in real life!

Somebody upthread was talking about how, as women grow older, they get better at weeding out emotionally immature men and discarding them as serious prospects. There are guys who go their whole lives having brief relationships with women in their early twenties - because they're not capable of dating somebody more mature - because they're immature themselves. And as you mature, you don't want a guy like that anyway.

Agree with whoever was saying, as you mature, what you want in a relationship is stability and compatibility. There's more at stake as you age. You don't necessarily want to be going out with somebody who wants to go to a warehouse rave until 4am (well, maybe some people 35+ want that, I know I don't.) If it's a long-term relationship, you want somebody kind, with somebody who you've got things in common with, who you can talk to things about.

I have a few almost constantly-single male friends 30+, who are single precisely because they chase after girls in their early 20s. The relationships never work out because there's not enough going on beyond an initial attraction. Women their own age aren't interested in guys like this because they're too much of 'a project', and as you get older you can't really be arsed with that. And you can see that, when these guys' looks fade, they'll end up being lonely in old age.

So my advice is, don't worry about your husband leaving you for somebody younger, just enjoy and cultivate what the two of you already have together.

Suzannewithaplan Sat 19-Apr-14 11:26:17

Tres vrai, I put up with all manner of shit, gobshiite and bullshit from men when I was younger.
There's no way I'd tolerate that now.

Much easier to control and manipulate the young and naive

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 11:46:54

olathelawyer05 - They certainly don't have relationships that conform to society(me). Do you honestly think that the young women they have on their arms like trinkets would stay with them if they lost everything?
I know you'll say that I couldn't possibly know that with 100% certainty but it's more than likely they wouldn't.
If you have a partner that stays with you through the toughest of times and when you have nothing, they continue to support you, then you know that they're with you for the right reasons.
They'll never know that. Maybe those women do love them in a way. It's not the right kind of love though. It's more like appreciation to somebody who supplies them with big houses, fancy cars and designer clothes. In return, they give an ego boost to shallow, superficial old men.

Suzannewithaplan Sat 19-Apr-14 11:55:31

Yes, plainly sugar daddy/sugar baby arrangements

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 12:36:47

neiljames77 - well, at least you seem to accept that you are just being 'judgy' without actually knowing - fair play. But it is very flawed to reach conclusions based on what you admit are assumptions - almost as though we're wishing/hoping that these aren't happy just because they aren't doing it as WE want them to. The same way that unmarried/childless women in their late 30s etc might be 'judged'. Basically, it's a way of rebuking them for not doing as they're told, and daring to like and pursue young/firm bums and boobs etc.

Suzannewithaplan - As above, not sure we can really decide what their relationships 'plainly' are or are not, based simply on an age difference that we disapprove of. They could just as easily have 'arrangement' relationships with older women.

AskBasil Sat 19-Apr-14 12:42:40

I actually don't care if these awful men are happy or not.

So what?

Lots of idiots are happy, ignorance is bliss. Like pigs in muck.

rubylovesshoes Sat 19-Apr-14 12:46:18

Seems to me all men want to be Heroes and much younger women than them facilitate that "you're so clever" and "wow you know so much" and especially in the bedroom when he's fulfilling only the basics "you really know what you're doing!" whereas to a woman of similar age it would be more like "he thinks he knows everything but obviously does not" and in the bedroom hmm

My partner doesn't find younger women mentally interesting and that's a deal breaker for him. Who knows if that'll always be the case as I grow older but I hope so!

rubylovesshoes Sat 19-Apr-14 12:47:03

Sorry generalising with all men - meant all men I've come across smile

Suzannewithaplan Sat 19-Apr-14 12:57:49

Not many blokes living on state pensions manage to pull young they?

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 13:02:54

olathelawyer05 I'm not rebuking them for having an unconventional relationship that doesn't fit in the parameters of society's "norms". I wouldn't do that. Each to their own. I'm not hoping that they're unhappy either. They probably are.
I'm not quite sure how a single woman without children in her late 30's fits into this though. What could she be "judged" on other than being a single woman without children in her late 30's?

I can tell you're a lawyer though. grin

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 13:11:52

"Not many blokes living on state pensions manage to pull young they?"

Well, "I want a poor man..." said no woman ever, regardless of her age.

So you see, not even that observation of yours (if correct) proves the shallowness of Hugh & Bernie's relationships based simply on the age gaps.

I think it depends on the man, their working environment and the opportunities available to them. I have seen an awful lot of 40 something men in very senior roles in the City on very high salaries leave their wives for a much younger model they met at work. Power and money is a great aphrodisiac....

ouryve Sat 19-Apr-14 13:14:14

DH is 40 and doesn't have any problem with my 44.

Perhaps you're just looking in the wrong places.

Twinklestein Sat 19-Apr-14 13:48:00

All the lawyers I know or employ have a great deal more sense than Ola, who spins his issues with women as poorly digested evolutionary psychology. As if we were likely to be fooled...

Generally young men and women do not want to mate with older models because they're a bit manky. To pull a much younger woman a man needs money/status to compensate for his lack of attractiveness.

Unfortunately, the few examples who manage to pull younger women, generally with large amounts of cash, convince the more susceptible of the male population that they therefore they also have a chance. They don't.

Darkesteyes Sat 19-Apr-14 14:09:13

copy and paste of an earlier post of mine Ola You obviously missed it.

Darkesteyes Fri 18-Apr-14 16:11:51

Im 40 and have always preferred older men.
At 18 I had a 3 month fling with a 41 year old man (the guy who showed me what my clitoris was for)
DH is 23 years older than me (this situ is well documented on here.)
Ex OM was 17 years older than me (the chemistry there was amazing)
All of them were either on benefits or low wages.

stephaniethehiker Sat 19-Apr-14 14:09:45

Ok...please don't flame... I was that twenty something who dated and was friends with older men. Not Anna Nicole Smith, but me 21, him 38, for example.

I can tell you exactly why. I had a narcissistic and abusive parents, and a very sheltered upbringing. So I was this mix of being quite well-educated and pretty, but also very naive and not able to get on with my peers.

The reason why: it was that I was struggling socially - broken, in fact. I was in a weird work/life situation. I couldn't get on with women and men my own age. I thought I didn't deserve any better than some weird guy with odd mannerisms, and everyone turning to snigger as I tried to be the "cool girlfriend/mate" and cover his shame.

The trouble was: the kind of man who seeks to have serious friendships with and date younger women, women who are very different to them, women who aren't 'peers', tends to be very, very fucked up and resentful.

People can fall in love with whoever they like - no ones criticising age gap relationships that happen naturally.

But there are some men who have failed to make it as men, and then will intentionally seek out people who are much younger than them (or even of a different nationality) because its easier to socially do a number on them.

I actually cringe with shame when I think of some of the horrors I went out with/was friends with (and I wouldn't give them a second look now). Just relieved I never got pregnant or married to any of them!

It wasn't my amazing body or my personality they were after: I was simply too naive to spot the weirdos/weird behaviour.

DavidFlattenborough Sat 19-Apr-14 14:24:01

Stephaniethehiker I'm not going to flame you at all for that - I think it's a pretty common experience.

I too went out with a few older men when I was in my early 20s. Remember thinking at the time that these men seemed so mature and experienced! Looking back now, I can see that my older boyfriends were emotionally stunted (to a greater or lesser degree) and one or two of them treated me very badly, in a way that they wouldn't have got away with if I was older and much less naive. I was too young to realise how awful they were, in short.

Pretty sure others on the board will have had similar experiences.

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 14:28:29

Ok then, I give in. I'll accept that there's a possibility that if some rich, cantankerous, lecherous old scrote was to lose everything, go on JSA and has to tell his perma-tanned barbie doll that she has to shop at Nisa rather than Harvey Nicholls, she'd say, "I promised for better or worse, when I got taken to our mock Georgian fake mansion in a horse drawn pumpkin to get married and I'll stick by you".

It's a remote possibility. So's winning Euromillions.

Neil gringringrin

However.... the younger second wives to the wealthy banker types I have come across are middle class, educated, university graduates, in naice jobs but not talented enough to be going anywhere career wise. Not a barbie among them... and the men tend to be charming well preserved 40 somethings not old scrotes.

I very much doubt these women would be half so enthusiastic about similar looking men on salaries comparable to what they earn themselves. I also very much doubt they'd hang around if the money miraculously vanished.

Just my observations on the group of people I know, not a hard and fast rule before someone jumps on me and declares everything I have said to be absolute fiction!

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 15:13:42

I can understand the wealthy banker or pilot that looks like George Clooney being attractive to women under 35 (or any age for that matter).

I'm talking about blokes so old that they need to put their balls on roller skates to stop them chaffing on the floor.

Ah yes the Hefners of the world. Lovely blokes.

stephaniethehiker Sat 19-Apr-14 15:20:40

thanks DavidF

Interestingly enough, I don't think it was actually about nice things and sex in my case.

Trust me, the 'pleasure' of going to a luxury boutique hotel, or a posh restaurant, with the staff snickering at you, and other middle aged men leering and laughing at you, because they think you're being paid to be there, isn't really all that.

It was creepy the way the older men were often were desperately keen - like Komarovsky and Lara in Dr Zhivago - for me to be publicly seen out with them. So they being socially inept and mistaking any attention for good attention got what they thought of as an ego boost, and I got the sniggers and the nudges. Or they'd try to manipulate social situations so they could 'accidentally' show me to their colleagues in a very see what I can pull way. It was really, really, fucking horrible.

Allegedly, you're meant to be benefiting from the older man's worldliness and life experience. But their worldliness wasn't all it seemed? They were relying on me not being experienced enough to call them on it?

So my 'friend' the copper was actually thought of in CID as a bit of a weirdo and wasn't progressing in his career, or my 'boyfriend' the businessman was up to his eyeballs in debt and dodgy deals.

Thinking back, I was actually not used to going out socially and just looking like and being treated like a normal person:

From my parents behaviour, I'd been socialised into thinking that every time I went out I had to 'cover' for someone behaving in an odd way, and the experience of, y'know ... just being out with a friend or a date your own age, and relaxing, and not having everyone smirking at you, was alien to me. I always thought I had to be the social caretaker of any situation, which is something I'm still working on.

And also being brought up in a very sexist family: men were entitled to get something they wanted, whereas women were lucky to get someone who was 'nice' to them and wanted them.

Twinklestein Sat 19-Apr-14 15:42:24


Most of my old city colleagues are married to people around their age. My husband still works in the city, the colleagues of his that I know are married to spouses of similar ages. He has one who is married to a younger woman, but then he also has one (female) who is married to a younger man. I don't know that you can generalise on your immediate circle.

I do know a woman who will not date a man who earns under 100 grand, and my brother in law has just been dumped by his wife because he doesn't earn enough to keep a £3million townhouse, 4 children at boarding school, and a house abroad. She thinks she can do better...

Some women want money the way some men want looks or youth, but I don't think they're representative of the population as a whole, and in either scenario how many actually get what they want?

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 18:19:08

Darkesteyes - I think you've misunderstood the chronology. I am the one arguing that an older man/younger woman relationships CAN be perfectly genuine. Others are hinting that there must be something wrong with these older men (and by extension I suppose, the young women).

It was said that these younger women must surely only be with the older men for their money (ie. that they wouldn't be with the men if they were on a basic state pension etc.).

I countered this generalisation by explaining that no woman - regardless of her age - goes 'looking' for a poor man, and so this could not be used as a stick with which to beat older men/younger women relationships with. I was actually defending you as the 'younger' woman as well as defending the older men. I hope that makes sense.

DavidFlattenborough Sat 19-Apr-14 18:42:30

flowers Stephanie

Onwards and upwards, eh? smile

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 18:43:11

If they were confident that it was true love and money wasn't the issue, why would there be a need for pre-nup agreements?

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 18:58:20

Neil - Because being in love (and under the influence) is no excuse for being naive!!

Anyway, if the younger women is quite happy to waive her claims against the older man's assets (assuming the agreement is enforceable), that may actually tend to suggest that she honestly isn't in it for the money IYSWIM.

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 19:12:49

I don't see it as naivety. I see it as a complete lack of trust right from day 1. Hardly the ideal platform to start a committed relationship.
I think love is being confused with a mutually beneficial agreement here.

Suzannewithaplan Sat 19-Apr-14 19:17:34
Xmasbaby11 Sat 19-Apr-14 19:41:19

If you're talking about men looking for a new partner, yes they often want a younger woman.

olathelawyer05 Sat 19-Apr-14 19:45:58

Well Neil, if that is your view of pre-nups in general, then OK. However, the use of pre-nups is not exclusive to 'lecherous' older rich men looking to protect themselves in marriages with 'gold-digger' younger women. They they could just save themselves a lot of hassle by not getting married at all.

If we're going to be sceptical about age-gap marriages simply because there is a pre-nup, then logic dictates that we should also be sceptical about ALL marriages where there is a pre-nup, most of which don't feature any particular age-gap at all.

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 19:56:34

I was thinking more along the lines of Elizabeth Taylor marrying that builder. It just strikes me as a bit hypocritical to sign one piece of paper after saying 'til death us do part....and another that says if we split, you can't have my money.

Twinkle and how many of those have a bit on the side wink? Seriously though, every single senior exec (and I'm talking proper senior exec not middle management) at one place I know of was either on their second wife, or shagging someone from the office.
However, as I made clear before:

'Just my observations on the group of people I know, not a hard and fast rule before someone jumps on me and declares everything I have said to be absolute fiction!'

However I am prepared to stand by the assertion that money and power have a magnetic pull on knicker elastic.

Fairyliz Sat 19-Apr-14 21:13:22

My husband is 50 and works at a university. I asked him after an open day last year if he and his colleagues check out the young students. His answer ' urgh no that would be pervy; however we did see some nice mums!'
So no to answer the original question I think most men like to look at attractive women but in their own age group.

Twinklestein Sat 19-Apr-14 21:22:07

I find generalisations about the city quite tiresome tbh. 'One place I know of' - did you ever actually work there? How do you come to know the love lives of an entire firm?

I agree some women want money, desperately from what I've seen, just as some men are looking for beauty or youth, I said so above.

FFS Twinkle I'm usually nice on here, but would you lay off me. How many times do I have to say it:

'Just my observations on the group of people I know, not a hard and fast rule before someone jumps on me and declares everything I have said to be absolute fiction!'

I'm not generalising. I'm NOT giving a hard and fast rule. I am talking about people I know directly.

Yes I did work in the City. Yes I am still very much in that world. Yes I did know the love lives of the entire executive Board as that's the level I socialise in, but not the entire firm. Obviously. God only knows what the rest of the firm got up to, but I suspect they were a little more grounded.

I will return to being nice now grin

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 21:51:17

It all depends what we're talking about. Of course most men will look at women in their 20's etc, that's natural. Are we talking about just sex, a relationship or a marriage of convenience?

Twinklestein Sat 19-Apr-14 22:17:53

Have you been at the sauce, worcester? Total over-reaction.

First you say "awful lot of 40something men", subsequently a "group of people [you] know", then you bite my head off because what you're saying is not clear.

Suzannewithaplan Sat 19-Apr-14 22:46:34

well he would say that wouldnt he, Fairyliz...

Nestabee Sat 19-Apr-14 23:00:58

I have a few lovely single male friends (late 30s/early 40s) and they wouldn't consider a woman older than early 30s, mid 30s was the absolute max. Whereas when they were younger they were fine with women being the same age or older than them. So there is something about a mid 30s limit sadly.

The reason being is that they want a family but they don't want to have to race the relationship 'down the aisle and into the nursery' due to the woman's biological clock. I think that is sad but understandable. They want the relationship to unfold naturally and have a few years before having to make decisions relating to having a family.

RyvitaSesame Sat 19-Apr-14 23:11:27

I haven't read manosphere (it sounds terrible) but I did find, on my brief attempt to do online dating that I was getting no hits. Despite being in my early forties and in good nic, men even TEN years older than I am were not selecting women in my age group.

So in a way I agree with the OP that men who do OLD are often delusional. If they were that charismatic or handsome they wouldn't be online.

I think I've gone past being sad or upset about it. I just accept now that I'm too old to get a date. (It is lonely, but I don't want to date wankers, and i certainly don't want to date wankers 15 years older than I am.)

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 23:17:55

You are NOT too old to get a date in your 40's ffs.
Don't bother with online dating. People set parameters because they get visions in their head.

RyvitaSesame Sat 19-Apr-14 23:27:50

Well, I know that neiljames77, you don't have to tell me! But...... confused oh, I don't know. I never meet anybody in real life. But yet, I got no 'hits' on on line dating. I can say this because it's anonymous but I look pretty/attractive in a non-threatening kind of way. I'm no carmen electra, more of a kate silverton :-p so, it's not that I'm UNattractive, I'm good company I think, I'm good humoured, I can find humour in most things, I'm interested in what's going on around me, I can get on with men easily, but I think it's that no man goes on to do internet dating and selects a woman of *43. Ykwim. So, I don't know, maybe I need to go salsa dancing,.......... and meet loads of other women. And tbh, I wouldn't mind, I'd have a laugh. I like other women. Maybe if I had fewer female friends, and didn't enjoy the company of women, I'd have been more motivated to get off my ass and sort out a boyfriend for myself! brew Gosh. That was an exhausting little vent there.

RyvitaSesame Sat 19-Apr-14 23:29:52

I think real life is my best bet. In real life, people tell me I look well, or that I look young. (the holy grail of compliments :-/ ) but on the internet I might as well be the gruffalo. the gruffalo would get hit on more than I would.

neiljames77 Sat 19-Apr-14 23:34:53

Try walking around Tesco's!!!
I don't mean that dating game where you have to eat different coloured peppers, I mean just regular shopping.

FastLoris Sat 19-Apr-14 23:52:32

My husband is 50 and works at a university. I asked him after an open day last year if he and his colleagues check out the young students. His answer ' urgh no that would be pervy; however we did see some nice mums!' So no to answer the original question I think most men like to look at attractive women but in their own age group.

Fuck me sideways, you actually believed a line like that? shock

And people are saying women get less naive as they get older! grin

Some of us actually trust our spouses not to lie to us.

FastLoris Sun 20-Apr-14 00:10:05

It's pretty simple really. In terms of pure sexual attraction, most men are much more turned on by young women than older ones. As so often with these things, a lot of women make that fact seem much more complicated than it really is because they underestimate just how compartmentalised "pure sexual attraction" can be for men, and misunderstand how they experience it.

For most people though, sex is only one aspect of relationships and not necessarily the most important one. Most men choosing a partner, or choosing to remain with a partner as they both age, are going to be considering all kinds of other things that may be far more important than sex, such as love, companionship, personality compatibility etc.

And then there's the fact that "sex" doesn't = "sexual attraction" anyway. Someone can look great and turn you on, but there's a lot more to making it work in the bedroom than that.

Some relationships between middle aged men and young women are probably genuine on many other levels. Good luck to them, it's not for me to judge. Many men however do seem to see relationships as being purely or primarily for sex, just as, as someone said above, some women see them as being for money. I wouldn't say that's typical of most people though.

At the end of the day none of us are getting any younger. I agree with the sentiments expressed upthread that you can't let that dominate your life. Yes, your DH is going to see things in 20 year olds that he doesn't see in you. He chooses to be with you though, because of whatever combination of factors lead to that choice. Might he choose otherwise sometime in the future? Well yeah, that can happen to anyone.

EasterInNewcastle Sun 20-Apr-14 00:14:56

I don't think all men over 50 are gagging to stare at younger women, no.

I remember being a young, stupid, hyper student and we'd make ga-ga eyes and flirt with the charismatic, older, Oxford lecturers: they seemed a bit embarrassed, if anything.

Reducing men to one-dimensional libidos on legs is very naive.

Saying all men are led by their sex drive is just as inaccurate as saying all women want a richer man and are led by their wombs.

I know 'relatively' well-off men (£100k ish) who - despite attempting to be the 'rich ones' - struggle to find steady girlfriends; I also know women who despite buying into the 'conventionally youthfully beautiful and sexually compliant' image (think fitted red dresses and heels and long hair) struggle to find steady boyfriends.

Motivation and desire is a lot more complex than that. Family, social status, work, intellectual growth, personality, spirituality: it all has just as much an effect.

Darkesteyes Sun 20-Apr-14 00:17:51

I would never online date Holds no appeal whatsoever. Im 40 but last week was told I look nowhere near it.
But sexual attraction and chemistry is so much more than down to age. Its being drawn to someone like I was to ex OM. A friend told me my h was better looking. And she took one look at OM and said that I could do better. But to me the attraction and pull towards OM was the strongest thing I have ever experienced. And there is not much point someone being with someone deemed good looking if they never want to touch you.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 00:20:57

FastLoris - 100% true.
I've also known though, men in their 40's who've had a girlfriend in her 20's and have got completely and utterly bored with them.

FastLoris Sun 20-Apr-14 00:30:15

I remember being a young, stupid, hyper student and we'd make ga-ga eyes and flirt with the charismatic, older, Oxford lecturers: they seemed a bit embarrassed, if anything.

And were any of them actually straight? smile

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 01:48:05

I think an awful lot of men struggle to find a girlfriend/wife and I'm sure many of them stay with someone they aren't that compatible with for fear of being single. I would tend to think single men in their thirties and older discussing the merits of younger women on the internet have missed the boat. I know in my degree year, when we did a catch up after 5 years, not one of the women was single, and of those of us who kept in touch, we all got married and none of us are divorced.

So who are the men in their forties etc going to date? There are very few single women around who are not young. The likelihood, if they try to chat to a woman they don't know well of the same age, is that they won't be single.

I was discussing this with a male friend recently. He is 27, handsome and a doctor. I asked him why he hadn't asked one of the female medical students in his class out, and he admitted to being attracted to several of them, but said that not one of the women in his degree year didn't have a boyfriend.

The few very wealthy men I know have had the sense to pick a woman they have remained attracted to and are still together with. The divorced men I know nearly always seem to complain of their ex wife being very different from them, in terms of education, or wife not working, or no mutual interests. In other words, its pretty obvious that they were never that compatible.

The women not working one is a funny one. I couldn't imagine being attracted to a man who didn't work or had a similar level of education to myself. (I am talking before kids). I accept there are some men who find non-working women more desirable. I wouldn't have that much to say to these men.

Media and celebs seem to move in a distorted sphere of their own. The sphere I move in, uni educated grad jobs/professions is very dull and conventional with none of this happening. I know some geeky types who are single who would probably do internet dating and try and date younger women, possibly because the only sort of women they can pull might be the sort to have youth as their main attraction.

All very generalised. But guys on internet forums are fooling no-one.

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 01:55:00

Ola It was said that these younger women must surely only be with the older men for their money (ie. that they wouldn't be with the men if they were on a basic state pension etc.). I countered this generalisation by explaining that no woman - regardless of her age - goes 'looking' for a poor man

Ola - if you are really a lawyer - don't you think your perception may be distorted, because the sort of couples who split up are more likely to be the type where the woman has never worked or contemplated a career, and the man is more educated and has worked hard, and they have drifted apart due to incompatibility and money issues?

Most of my female graduate friends (apologies for repeatedly banging this drum but they shouldn't be unmentioned) wouldn't go near an older man and look for someone equal or very similar to themselves. I remember one younger female friend, aged 22, talking about a man aged 28 as being "quite good looking, but just too old to consider boyfriend material". She has recently married someone her own age.

crustichoc Sun 20-Apr-14 02:28:09

Melonade that echoes my experience.

I reckon when people are fairly well-educated and focused on their careers, with relatively full lives, they aren't concentrating on shopping round for younger models.

The motivation to build a good joint life is the primary goal, not just 'who is the hottest/youngest/most exciting person I can pull'.

I'd imagine with the kudos of X professional job title, a lot of men in my peer group could go wild trying to impress the nubile ladies of London. But the vast majority seem to prefer partnering up with those they studied with, or someone from that social group.

I think shared history can give someone a much stronger sense of intimacy/identity than 'they look nice'.

Pairings I can think of go like:

Army Officer-Engineer
Army Officer-Doctor
City Lawyer-City Lawyer

Everyone stays in shape and is fairly attractive, but not in a Ken/Barbie way.

An older bachelor acquaintance ended up marrying someone who was part of his social circle, similar background, widow, little bit older than him.

Given his background, family assets (and he is known to be a bit eccentric, no pressure to pick anyone in particular) he had the choice of really impressing younger women with his naice big country house. But he chose someone with the qualities he valued, which didn't include youth.

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 08:31:16

In terms of pure sexual attraction, most men are much more turned on by young women than older ones.

Fortunately not all of us men though. My wife is 6 years older than me.

You're right though. It's not all about sex. I'm battling with my feelings for another woman at the moment and it's not sexual at all. She does happen to be younger than me but the age doesn't come into it as it's a personality thing.

I've been with my wife for 15 years and fwiw I think she's just as beautiful today as she was when we first met. Sure she has a few more wrinkles but I'm no oil painting either and we have grown old together. Personally I'm looking forward to us turning old and crumbly together but that hinges on me getting this other woman out of my head!

Utterfool, yes, yes you are.

Im 35, have to say, i got much more attention when i was 30, it severely dropped off when i hit 34 and im pretty much invisible now.

I get almost no messages when i do online dating, just a few from men a lot older, i have no desire to date a 50 year old man.

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 09:03:38


What do you mean, that I am a fool? [Smile]

What you're saying is a real shame but maybe it's an online dating thing? I may be an utter fool (and a long time out of the dating thing) but surely it's different if you meet people in normal life situations e.g. work etc.

I have a thing for olds women but this doesn't dictate who I have feelings for. Of course younger people have a certain appeal but what's the point if you're not compatible mentally?

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 09:04:39

Older lol

Twinkle if I was unclear I apologise. I thought my point was a general one to do with the correlation between money and power and the trading of one partner for a younger one, not a precise analysis of my social knowledge.

However to clarify, I have seen and awful lot of marriage breakdowns where a younger woman has been part of the mix. Seen, but not known about at any level. You asked about the firm I mentioned, so I clarified that in that case I knew the people socially, so met the first and second wives and was aware of the affairs.

You are obviously defensive about the City, but I only use this as an example as it is an area I am familiar with. I know nothing about celebs, politicians, or footballers......

utterfool, you are a fool for battling feelings for someone else when you are married.

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 09:54:42

Lol at utterfool who comes on a thread to say that "fortunately, not all of us men though" [fancy a younger woman]..........

Before going on to say his wife is older & his current crush is younger than him......gringringrin

What a cock grin

Never has a user name been so apt.....


then he seems to have missed what i was saying when i said ' utterfool, yes, yes you are.

smile smile smile

FastLoris Sun 20-Apr-14 10:09:21

Melonade & Crusty -

You seem to be suggesting that well educated men are less likely to leave their marriages for younger women than the less educated are, I don't know of any evidence that that's actually true, do you?

Lioninthesun Sun 20-Apr-14 10:14:10

I think a certain type of man will always need a younger model. He's not the kind of man I would want either, so he can fuck off to the far side of fuck!

I've been watching Mad Men on Netflix and actually don't think men's opinion of women have changed too much from US in the 60's. I'd love to say half of the men would be happy to have an older woman, but think our media has sold men the idea that they can stay young by screwing young.

More fool them really as an older woman knows how to do a helluva lot more and usually has the confidence men really enjoy but is hard to find in young girls, unless they are really naive not as attractive as confidence for a reason.

FastLoris Sun 20-Apr-14 10:20:17

Utterfool -

In terms of pure sexual attraction, most men are much more turned on by young women than older ones.

Fortunately not all of us men though. My wife is 6 years older than me.

It may well be that the generalisation doesn't apply to you; I deliberately said "most" because with things like this, there are exceptions to everything. Not sure about the "fortunately" part though - I don't see men's purely sexual attraction to youth in pejorative terms. Like most aspects of sex, it just is. Most of the disparaging comments about it on this thread are probably just because it's inconvenient to women of a certain age group.

But more to the point, your first sentence doesn't necessarily follow from your second, since we don't choose our partners (and certainly don't choose to stay with them long term) purely because of sexual attractiveness. You could well feel the raw sexual appeal of youth as much as anybody, while being certain that your wife is who you want to spend your life with.

RyvitaSesame Sun 20-Apr-14 10:51:14

His attraction to the younger woman is not base and predictable, it is based on something real and pure , so that is why he can say that sentence without irony! Being a cliche (hopefully not) but not identifying with it!

Neiljames77 i do internet shopping!!! The drivers are always very pleasant. :-)
Nobody chats u up when u have children in tow!
Id go one mirning im not working! I wouldnt rule out a man that is free during the day. Like some young women. All sorts of people free in the day. And tbh i dont find lack of ambition a turn off! That makes me sound unfussy! But id go more by whether somebody was interesting and sane. Lots of suited salarymen cant claim to be interesting or sane. Theyd prob laugh at losers wandering around aldi during the day!!
(See, not even tesco, less upmarket, aldi!).

In all seriousness now aldi get lots of garden stuff in on 24th april. A nice part time gardener would be a catch i think

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 11:09:27


Lol I got what you were saying and agree with you smile.

I don't want to derail the thread but you can't help who you develop feelings for and irrespective of personal preferences I didn't set out to fancy someone younger. But as I was advised on here a few weeks back, you can't help developing feelings but it's what you do with them. That's the 'battling' bit I was referring to.


I say fortunately as the OP seems quite down about what she perceives to be men's preference toward younger women. Perhaps I could have worded it better but was only trying to put some counterbalance in this thread. I have a few friends that are either married or with older women.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 11:57:54

RyvitaSesame - You won't get a bite if you've got your kids with you. Men will automatically assume you have a husband. Btw, I don't walk around Tesco throwing ready meals for one in the trolley or anything. I've just found it to be that kind of place. Having said that, I'm not the sort that walks into bares and stands there checking out the women in there before even buying a drink. I have mates like that and they wonder why they get nowhere. I've told them that women can smell the scent of desperation and they don't like it.

UtterFool - Has this younger woman given you any kind of encouragement? Even if she has, I'd forget all about it if I were you. Ask yourself if you totally despise your wife. If you act on any of this in any way, you'll destroy her.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 11:59:07

bars, not bares. ffs.

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 12:04:22


No she hasn't. It's all me so I need to deal with it. Never had this happen before and I've not been pursuing it either so she is totally unaware. I intend to keep it this way!

Thanks though.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 12:13:41

Good man. Buy yourself a sports car instead. grin

Lioninthesun Sun 20-Apr-14 12:17:48

Not sure I completely agree that men don't look at you when you have children... I think more men look at me now! I had been told by a man that he had been scared to come and talk to me (I was confident/tall/not too ugly/posh) I think it has something to do with not having the party girl appeal and having a more rounded mothering (can cook/clean/look after, etc) appeal now. I assume deep down most men actually want to be mothered and that's why I get chatted up more when DD is there.

Lioninthesun Sun 20-Apr-14 12:19:46

I don't have a ring on, which my also give away that I am single. I know men take their rings off for various reasons hmm but I don't know any women who do. Have men not learnt to look at that clear indicator yet? grin

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 12:28:31

good man, buy yourself a sportscar instead

Are you fucking kidding me shock

Can anybody else see what is wrong with this statement?

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 12:29:45

Most young women wouldn't naturally look for an older guy. Girls under 25 look for fit, strong, youthful men who have hair! They fancy and drool over guys like the models in Hollister and Jack Wills. No man over 30 (at most) can aspire to look like that.
As girls hit 25 they may start to find some older men attractive but this is probably because they are possibly thinking of children at some point down the line. Although I still think they are of the age where it is still about looks.
Really what attractive girls aged between 20-30 will be drawn to men in their late 30/40s, separated, prob with children and have aged (receding hair etc). I'm not saying no girls wouldn't, but that guy would have to have status, money and charisma. Some men are just deluded!

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 12:37:58

I also think a lot of men are drawn to the attractive mum's at the school gate. The ones who look great and natural, but are also great wives too. Kind of have the whole package-clever, good mothers and wives, slim, pretty and smiley.
The dad's can't take their eyes off such women sometimes!

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 12:48:00

It'd never cross my mind to flirt with a woman who's got kids with her. Even if she wasn't wearing a ring, I'd just assume she's not married but has a partner.

Anyway, back to the under 35 thing. I think if I ever bothered with the online dating, I'd put 35 as a minimum rather than maximum. It's been said up-thread that men in their 40's are stipulating under 35's because they might want to start a family. That's a bit of a cheek really. So it's ok for him to pick the kids up from school when he's in his 50's but not his partner? Then again, those wannabe Peter Pans would probably want nothing to do with childcare anyway.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 12:51:32

Uptheanty - I WAS JOKING!!!! Isn't that the stereotypical thing a man in a mid-life crisis does??? grin

(no offence UtterFool)

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 13:16:49


Too late, I've already placed the order shock wink

olathelawyer05 Sun 20-Apr-14 13:20:04

Neil - I think its about the reality that women in their late 30s and above don't tend to 'conceive' quite as well as younger women. So if the older man wants to start a family, it's just logical that he would look for a woman of a certain younger age is it not?

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 13:21:08

Lol, anyway, who's talking about mid life crisis hmm

muchtooshy Sun 20-Apr-14 13:24:16

Really what attractive girls aged between 20-30 will be drawn to men in their late 30/40s, separated, prob with children and have aged (receding hair etc). I'm not saying no girls wouldn't, but that guy would have to have status, money and charisma. Some men are just deluded!

I am in my mid-20s and dating a man in his early 40s. He is divorced with a child, not much spare cash, and doesn't have a high powered job. I don't think he has charisma to most people but I find him attractive and he is kind and interesting.

He wasn't looking for someone younger deliberately and I think it put him off at first.

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 13:24:35

I struggle to think what a girl in her 20s would have in common with a guy with baggage in his 40s.
A lot of guys have already had children by this age and certainly aren't looking to have any more.

MadeMan Sun 20-Apr-14 13:24:40

"Nobody chats u up when u have children in tow! "

Yes, I can believe this. Whenever I see a woman out with children I always assume she has a partner at home or at work. I never stop to think that the children could be her sister's, or that she might be employed to look after children, or that she may be a single mum hoping to be chatted up. smile

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 13:25:47


Thanks for the explanation -

I got it- unfortunately it seems you didn't.

I agree with all of your posts & you make lots of sense usually but.....

You have actually contributed to that man by your statement and validated sexist attitudes.

So he needs to fulfil a need that his older wife can't fulfil?
Don't get the younger woman, be a good boy, get a new flash sports car that should help your ego.
Fundamentally you're comparing women to objects in order to fulfil a mans need.

What he needs to get is a grip-

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 13:29:13

I'm not saying no young girls are attracted to older men. There are always exceptions. But it is unusual for girls in there 20s to be in a long term relationship with a man in his late 30s/40s. But I don't think this is the norm.
A lot of young women find young men attractive. That is probably normal. I don't ever recall finding many men attractive above 30 when I was younger. My friends were the same.

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 13:29:20


When I say that man - I don't mean you personally, I mean the kind of man who does trade in IYSWIM.

I'm not trying to single you out or trying to be rude.

Although I did call you a cock & stand by it. grin

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 13:31:07

Most attractive, well dressed men in there 30s and 40s are married! And normally have there wives to thank for looking good.

muchtooshy Sun 20-Apr-14 13:34:47

Does make me wonder if it will last long term.

Tiredstilltired Sun 20-Apr-14 13:38:22

muchtoochoosy who knows?
As long as you're happy. See how it goes.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 13:45:40

I hope I haven't come across as sexist because I'm not.
I was just making light hearted remarks based on cliches regarding older men. I wasn't even suggesting UtterFool was having a mid-life crisis. I was just pointing out that fancying younger women was one of the cliches but it would be far less damaging for him to pick another cliche in a joking manner.

istanbulcalling Sun 20-Apr-14 13:52:57

Our neighbour is 45ish and does the standard well-groomed Anthea Turner tiny blonde look, and she's certainly not an anomaly in London.

As education, income levels increase women (and men) are often childfree, delay having children, not too many children, and know how to take care of themselves. Not necessarily uber posh, but just the standard been to uni, have a sport, know how to use sunscreen and dress well look. Which tends to then translate into being attractive to the opposite sex.

That said: I suppose all perspectives are valid, and maybe if a chap comes from a fairly small world which is maybe not so socio-economically privileged, and isn't as well educated then making the - somewhat broad - statement young woman phwoar, older woman bore might actually be the appropriate perspective? For his little world.

And any male who doesn't think phwoar at a younger girl is allegedly probably 'gay'? Crikey, I don't think he's going to be a proper professional type. And yes, I suppose he'll come back with the line but I'm a MAN so I know what men talk about and what they're REALLY like. But he'd be like an alien to men who actually have a decent career and income, there's not some universal brotherhood between "Mr City type who runs marathons and likes to keep his life well organised" and "Mr Middle Manager from Slough who likes to read FHM and has internet friends"?

So a bit of an outlier in my world, but his view is valid, still, in his world, I suppose, and he is entitled to it? smile

I suspect if the people he knows haven't ingested the message that beauty is actually very, very controllable - exercise, weight, posture, skincare, knowing how to dress and present oneself well - then youth is the only thing that distinguishes women from each other

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 14:01:00


No need to explain yourself but thanks all the same smile

To be honest I got far too much support on another thread I started about this so it's good to be flamed and called a cock. Keeps things in perspective so no probs.


Fwiw I got the joke and found it funny so no harm done this end smile

istanbulcalling Sun 20-Apr-14 14:10:57

FastLorsi, I can't speak for other posters, but my advice: I think the reason people are starting to ignore you, is that you keep doing the straw man thing: you've got a fairly tenuous argument, based on...Lord knows what you read and whom you socialise with... but are attempting to then connect it to something that has no relevance whatsoever.

give me evidence that the universal phenomenon of men leaving their wives for younger models doesn't apply to well educated men.

What universal phenomenon? Most people know others whose relationships have broken down, but I can assure you that women, well-educated or not, are not quaking in their boots worrying about this - a lot of divorces are actually instigated by women. Are you trying to be a male agony aunt columnist or something? I think most women take men who intentionally come into a mainly female space with a hmm, as generally, they aren't representative of the male population. No man I know has the time or inclination to sit and chat on the internet to people.

they're gay, aren't they, if they don't think what I think.

No love, that's what you get when people emotional invest in a life and vocation they care about and are good at. So they don't then need ego boosts from someone they might have fancied 20 years ago, to regain their lost youth.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 14:48:51

I find this site as addictive as others find candy crush addictive.
It's a bit of a generalisation to suggest that most women view men on a mainly female space as a bit confusing. If that's true, there's not much I can do about that I suppose. It could be a misapprehension but I suspect you're probably right.
I originally came on here for relationship advice and advice regarding my kids.

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 15:27:41

Crustichoc Melonade that echoes my experience. I reckon when people are fairly well-educated and focused on their careers, with relatively full lives, they aren't concentrating on shopping round for younger models

I kind of get the impression that the men being described who chase around after younger women are probably not the pick of the bunch. And vice versa. But if that's what they are attracted to, then good luck to them.

Its such an individual thing. I myself am very fussy. I mean, Rowan Atkinson or Lembit Opik or Stephen Hendry would be definate "no"s. The first two are simply not physically attractive and none have the requisite level of education. The traditional professions at least tend to date amongst themselves. And the younger women they are dating aren't any more attractive than most of my female friends anyway.

Whereas if a man has an intelligent, attractive and talented wife or girlfriend, he himself becomes more attractive and interesting, as it reflects well on him.

I'm thinking FastLoris must know some pretty strange men. Maybe ones who struggle to find a girlfriend and mistake polite conversation for sexual interest. Maybe ones who work in a male dominated environment who don't have the social skills to attract a woman on a par with them. I've seen this in some industries. I wonder if FastLoris is mistaking physical attraction for youth. He/she might not be aware of the ages of the women he/she classifies as "young". To be honest, I somehow get the impression FastLoris is somehow trying very hard to make their theory "fit" as the answer to something that affects he/she alone.

Can't say its something that ever keeps me awake at night worrying - if DH ever messed around with a younger woman, he knows I wouldn't exactly be struggling to find a replacement! I have three male friends aged 27-33 that I go to the cinema etc with (husband works away a lot) and two of them are single, I'd probably go out with one of them if I ever found myself single. But quite happy with hubby thank you!

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 15:41:10

MelonadeAgain - * if DH ever messed around with a younger woman, he knows I wouldn't exactly be struggling to find a replacement! I have three male friends aged 27-33 that I go to the cinema etc with (husband works away a lot) and two of them are single, I'd probably go out with one of them if I ever found myself single*

Wow!! I never realised we were that expendable!!! grin

Doasbedoneby Sun 20-Apr-14 15:46:22

Rowan Atkinson has a M.Sc. from Oxford, is he not educated enough?

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 16:00:18

Rowan Atkinson has a M.Sc. from Oxford, is he not educated enough?

Oh right. What in? Anyway, he's not good looking enough, and too old. He's not someone I would consider, if I were single.

Actually, googled him on Wikipeadia: On his first wife "The couple first met in the late 1980s, when she was working as a make-up artist with the BBC". On his new girlfriend "Miss Ford grew up in Bexleyheath, south-east London, before gaining an English degree at Southampton University."

But different people are attracted by different things, to some age is just a number. So good luck to them.

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 16:08:01

I have to work out a bit harder at the gym these days and my face cream costs could probably support a small island economy blush

Apart from the above, i would say that I'm much more of a catch now than when I was younger---and I had plenty of offers. That is with stretch marks, dc's, career pressure and all sorts of other responsibilities that I never had before.

I am much more confident and self assured, experience is very attractive to adults.

The kind of men who disregard their own peer group & choose partners based on image are the kind of men most woman would not want long term given the option.

To sum up - they are no prize and they won't outgrow you, it'll be the other way around wink

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 16:08:02

Stephen Hendry can work out if he needs snookers or not just by glancing at the table and the scoreboard, so he must be quite good at maths.
Lembit Opik just strikes me as a purple Y-front wearing gimp.

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 16:23:18

uptheanty its a totally different demographic though, isn't it?

I've had friends who tried internet dating, and they used to show me some of the messages. The men used to say things like "Wow, you're really independent. I admire a woman that's independent" etc simply because they had careers. And you would be thinking about them "What kind of women are you used to then?"

I can't be the only woman age has been more kind to than youth. Nor the only one that has never had to struggle to attract a man. I don't want to boast. I fear I'm coming across as a narcisstist. But I think its important to point out that not all women live in constant fear of their man leaving them for a younger woman. Some of us even have other things in our life too!

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 16:36:34


In what way is it a different demographic?

MelonadeAgain Sun 20-Apr-14 16:39:22

People move in different circles socially I guess Uptheaunty. I mean I guess if someone spends a lot of time clubbing for instance, they will find things more attractive in women that someone who spends a lot of time with friends through a sporty hobby, or a very academic circle, etc..

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 16:45:40


I agree to a point.... However I think the kind of man who does this is generally immature, needy & insecure. These behaviours transcend the normal cultures and norms and can be found in most demographics?

I fully agree that we are not all sitting around worrying about losing our men hmm

3mum Sun 20-Apr-14 18:41:15

Surely if you take the view that what matters is your age and looks and that who you are is less important than either of those things then you are just a tradeable commodity.

I'd say that completely devalues you as a human being. Is that really how women should go through life FFS?

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 19:07:21

^ I think most women take men who intentionally come into a mainly female space with a , as generally, they aren't representative of the male population. No man I know has the time or inclination to sit and chat on the internet to people.^

Is this really what women on here think? If so that's a shame. Admittedly there don't seem to be many dads on here and Dadsnet is pretty quiet but the (few) women who I've spoken to here have been very supportive.

I only came here for some advice but have found myself compelled to keep visiting. Definitely more interesting than Pistonheads.

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 19:48:16

The other forum I go on is probably 98% male and I wouldn't have got any sensible advice. I did on here. Got flamed a bit. But generally got good advice.

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 19:59:55

Personally I appreciate the male perspective & value male opinions as much as I do female.


Lioninthesun Sun 20-Apr-14 20:08:39

So many studies show that (in an office situation at least) men and women work better at a solution than if separated into same sex groups.

I think that threads with men on usually have a more rounded approach on here too.

Unless they are an MRA. Then it's snooze time wink

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 20:18:13

I'm with Neil. If I posted up my query on Pistonheads I would have had a bunch of guys telling me to smash her back door in. Nice!

Thanks though. I may be a cock but am not an MRA. Hopefully that makes me a bit less of one wink

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 20:19:25

Uptheanty - But the likes of me and UtterFool "aren't representative of the male population" though. sad
Some people think that by posting on here it makes us less macho.........................thanks for the flowers btw. grin

Uptheanty Sun 20-Apr-14 20:24:33

Mehhh... Some people are arses & not representative of the female population..wink

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 20:34:10

What's an MRA? It's not in the list of acronyms.
Is it like an MCP?

UtterFool Sun 20-Apr-14 20:50:35

Men's Rights Activist

neiljames77 Sun 20-Apr-14 20:59:14

Oh right, thanks. No I'm not one of those. I'm not one of those that climb up Big Ben dressed as Batman either.

Hogwash Sun 20-Apr-14 21:09:50
FastLoris Sun 20-Apr-14 21:25:32

Melonade - I don't really understand your post as it references me but seems concerned with something other than anything I wrote. Maybe you're getting me confused with someone else.

As far as I can recall I've only made three basic points on this thread:

1. Most men are more attracted in a purely sexual sense to younger women than older ones.

2. Pure sexual attraction is only one factor in the huge complex of factors that determine whom one has a relationship with.

3. I'm not convinced that the phenomenon of men leaving their wives for younger women is any more common among uneducated men than educated ones, and I'm not going to accept an assertion to that effect without evidence.

None of that seems particularly controversial to me, but I'm happy to continue discussing anything about it if it is.

MelonadeAgain Mon 21-Apr-14 13:44:30

I wonder if there is a term for a polite silence on an internet thread, you know while people shift slightly uncomfortably in their seats, look at their nails, pretend to be staring into the distance in response to something that gives them the creeps, then slowly wander off so as not to be associated with it...

ParsifalforEaster Mon 21-Apr-14 14:50:21

grin Melonade

I'm actually quite enjoying their rantings slow Easter

The angry failed musician and the angry failed lawyer have decided to re-invent themselves, as self styled Spokespeople of All Men, and Advisors to Women. 'the beast will out' and all that.

So....over thirty five year old women, you know if your date/long term partner isn't lusting after the spotty seventeen year old waitress....


One learns a new thing on Mumsnet every day...

FastLoris Mon 21-Apr-14 20:05:24

Oh I see...

The thing about Oxford lecturers was a joke, based on the fact that friends of mine who went there tend to remark on how many of the lecturers WERE gay. I didn't particularly mean anything by it - sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

Other than that, like I said before I'm happy to engage over anything I've actually written. But you're clearly not, so... whatever.

flippinada Mon 21-Apr-14 20:19:26

I really wouldn't worry about what men do or don't prefer, it's not important and rather liberating to not care.

Of course some men will get dreadfully offended that you aren't tying yourself in knots fretting about whether they find you attractive or not, but they aren't worth bothering about.

RyvitaSesame Mon 21-Apr-14 21:34:40

i think stilltired is right. at 20, I would have been properly revolted by the thoughts of a boyfriend in his forties. Maybe that is because my parents had me young. My father is the standard (for their generation) a25 years older than I am. I don't know if this is why I find that path (dating older men) just such a depressing cop out, like giving up.
But then, somebody else said that no woman goes looking for a poor man regardless of her age. I think I would have agreed with that when I was much younger but having been in a relationship where money is power (and it was abused) I quite LIKE the idea of a man without money. So long as he's solvent. There are limits. No gambling debts.
But stilltired is so right, young women before they start thinking about what makes a boyfriend a potential husband, they are drawn to the closest thing to a 'fit male' that they can find. Human nature I guess.
I wish I could go through my twenties with the wisdom of a forty year old. But alas................. that aint gonna happen. So, I'm going to lock my children in the shed, and do laps of tesco.

MelonadeAgain Mon 21-Apr-14 21:53:47

FastLoris I can't help noticing that you seem confused. So I will try to spell it out:-

(a) Posters don't seem interested in discussing your own very personal tastes, possibly due to cultural or psychological reasons.

(b) Your own very personal tastes do seem a little unusual, and you mistake them for being the norm.

(c) You have described your own personal tastes in such a way as to deter other posters from "engaging" with you.

(d) The discussion will continue whether or not you are "convinced". You miscalculate the interest that other posters have in your personal views.

(e) I do not wish to engage with you further.

FastLoris Mon 21-Apr-14 22:15:22

OK. I don't really know what I said to set you off like that but fair enough - let's just draw a line under it.

neiljames77 Mon 21-Apr-14 22:36:49

If you're going to do laps of Tesco, RyvitaSesame ,make sure you have something in your trolley, otherwise people will think you're the store detective. Any man that might catch your eye will feel defensive and assume you think he's pilfering.

One thing this thread has done is make me glad all over again that I have no interest in internet dating. At nearly 50 with a lively skin condition all over my face, I'd be sure to get some interestin propositions, wouldn't I?

AnyFucker Tue 22-Apr-14 00:39:10

Fuck me, did I wander into an episode of Sex and The City circa 1998 ?

Uptheanty Tue 22-Apr-14 05:28:47

Who would you be Anyfucker?

AnyFucker Tue 22-Apr-14 07:27:59

Good question, anty.
I would be Steve... the most normal, non neurotic, non sexist, non male centric one smile

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 01:13:16

Neiljames, in boots recently the store security guard trailed me round the shop and i thought "wow it's been years since i was suspectedof shop lifting". Reckon it was cos i was wandering around aimlessly killing my lunch hour.... not because i had a big coat.

Amyfucker, i couldnt staaaaaand that stupid programme.

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 01:19:19

Does anybody remember a thread where a poster's husband told her she didnt have a good body like shakira's. She was so hurt and vented about it here, where she was quite rightly advised to show him the door and wish him good luck with Shakira.

I think it is depressing that some men think like they do but if they reveal it to you then you can wish them good luck with Shakira sooner rather than later.

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 01:21:02

Think ill put pringles and beerin my basket. That'll catch a man's attention quicker than red peppers and leeks!

neiljames77 Wed 23-Apr-14 06:00:23

Nah, that'll just make them think you're buying them for your partner as a treat. (not that women don't eat pringles and drink beer of course)

avoiretre Wed 23-Apr-14 06:30:53

I'm a man and prefer women over 35, but under 42/3 ideally. I won't go into the reasons, I'll only get shot to pieces!

chaseface Wed 23-Apr-14 07:25:20

I won't go into the reasons, I'll only get shot to pieces!

Oh but you'll happily drip feed, how good of you. hmm. It's hardly the world's toughest puzzle to crack.

AnyFucker Wed 23-Apr-14 07:54:12

I would just love what makes a woman sexually worthless to avoir after the age of 43


AnyFucker Wed 23-Apr-14 07:54:47

*to know

neiljames77 Wed 23-Apr-14 09:25:09

avoiretre - How old are you? And what will you do if you find a woman in that age bracket when she turns 43?
I'm curious to know your reasons for both ends of the age range.

Twinklestein Wed 23-Apr-14 10:23:52

Who cares what his reasons are. There are lot of men on the net with stringent theories of who they will date, and they're mainly single...

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 11:43:36

Wow, that's so specific avoiretre.

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 11:45:13

True anyfucker, id also rather not know!

noddyholder Wed 23-Apr-14 12:18:25

I definitely turned more heads at 35 than I do at 48. I have a lot of male mates they all like the look of younger women from what I can gather but all their partners are similar ages to themselves. Its a shallow visual thing. I am 48 dp is 54 and he is the only 54 yr old I find attractive if I was single and had my pick I would prefer someone younger shock. I think we all still find people attractive of around the age we were when at our peak attractiveness but that doesn't mean you will have any sort of meaningful connection with these people in fact the reverse.

Tiredstilltired Wed 23-Apr-14 12:30:55

I still think it's funny that most men in their 30/40s thjnk they can attract lovely young girls. Most decent men are married and if not they have baggage. Very unattractive to young women and that's before you add in the paunch, receding hair line and moobs. Very shallow I know but young women want fit, strong young men.
Most people as they get older find other things attractive and sexy. The whole package. It is only the shallow and deluded who continue to think they can pull young women.
I find my dh much sexier then a young rugby player, because young men to me are boring despite their good shape and form.
Attractiveness is not based only on age. If men really think this they will ultimately end up lonely and laughed at (maybe not in celebrity land, but def in real life).

FastLoris Wed 23-Apr-14 17:18:06

Tired -

I don't think the question of whether men "think they can attract lovely young girls" is the point here. The question in the OP was what men are attracted to, not which of those attractions they think they can turn into reality.

I agree that it's ridiculous and embarrassing when older men overestimate their pulling power. I don't what proportion of them actually do though. Plenty of older men probably desire younger women while just accepting that it will never happen.

I have to take issue though with your statement that "Most decent men (in their 30s/40s) are married". Marriage is a lifestyle choice as much as anything else and perfectly decent people can be unmarried for all kinds of reasons, including that they simply don't want to be. Then there are all the decent people of both sexes who do get married but it doesn't work out and they're divorced by then.

OPohdear Wed 23-Apr-14 17:56:57

One of the world’s great myths is that all men find younger women’s bodies sexier than older women’s. It’s so big that it’s never challenged, just taken as fact, and men who don’t conform to the stereotype think there’s something wrong with them. But it’s bollocks. I’m not talking about younger guys who are looking for someone to have kids with – it makes sense they prioritise fertility – but in my experience other men, especially fathers, who prefer ‘fresh flesh’ are either:

a) misogynists
b) seriously immature
or c) brainwashed by soft/hard porn, and by soft porn I include pretty much all advertising/lads mags/etc…

As we all know, both men and women go through physical changes when children come along. Men’s testosterone levels plummet, while breastfeeding takes its toll – but a caring, nurturing man is sexy if you’ve got kids (I hope), and, speaking as a man, baggy breasts are sexy because it means they actually work and are not ‘for display purposes only’.

<TMI> And the bottom line (heh!) for me is that baggy boobs, bums and other bits are simply more fun to play with. And, obviously, more experienced men and women are going to be better in bed. This all contradicts our cultural conditioning, which has a pretty transparent agenda. I understand why women might be taken in (how are they supposed to know what men think?) but any man who perpetuates this myth is beneath contempt and probably deeply conflicted and unhappy too.

elvishsong Wed 23-Apr-14 18:08:15


...and of course, the corollary of that thinking, is that women are then meant to be grateful to have some frumpy loser 'settle' for a monogamous relationship them, because he actually, deep down, allegedly really desires someone younger.

And that myth also implies they have to work hard to 'keep him interested'. I think the stats comparing happiness levels of married men to married women, single men to single women belies that myth!

Uptheanty Wed 23-Apr-14 18:18:56

Personally speaking...there is nothing more attractive than confidence & experience regardless of age.

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 18:29:31

I wonder if some posters are mistaking age with youth? Some people seem to give very defined age limits. I am one of those people who looks ridiculously young for their age, I looked awful when I was in my teens and for the early part of my twenties. Now I have grow into my features, lost my puppy fat and spots and that slightly fat faced look has served me well in terms of not developing wrinkles or sagging, as have my cheekbones. I am also very physically fit. I get so much more male attention now than when I was younger. Most of it unwanted. Its embarrassing to "reveal" my real age but some of the admirers hang around - I'm not single anyway.

I think theres an awful lot of assumptions about appearance on here, based on what the average British person looks like at a certain age. I don't have entirely European heritage and I have a totally different facial shape to most people here. I've heard it said amongst quite a few black people (I hope this isn't interpreted wrongly as racist because it certainly isn't intended to be) that many of them and their friends look like babies until well into their forties.

I'm sorry to say but I think many men prefer women who are attractive and slim and reasonably young looking - but I don't think any men would have preferred my younger self. I'm sure there are others like me but since we look as we do, its most likely assumed that we are not the age we are, and its not as if you go around wearing a hat stating your age to strangers!

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 18:36:43

OPohDear One of the world’s great myths is that all men find younger women’s bodies sexier than older women’s.

I also agree with that. I don't think it is even assumed that much, or perhaps only by a certain cohort of men, the type who do online dating and crash from one failed relationship to another, always looking (but never finding) the ideal woman. I never have much time for that sort of man, but I think they're relatively easy to spot, and I'm certain decent men (like nearly all the ones I've ever known well) would be horrified that their views were being taken as gospel. To me, it sounds more like a description of someone with a low grade level of sociopathy, struggling with inter-personal relations, and that runs at a level of around 1 in 20 or slightly less, doesn't it?

Many, many men are turned off by young, attractive women, because they think they are out of their league, will be too much hassle, run off with their better looking best friend, be after their money, whatever. Many, many men prefer the girl next door, and the girl next door isn't always a teenager. Nearly all my very attractive female friends have experienced this and the situation where they are ignored in favour of their less attractive friend. Who may well be older or the same age. Its a biological prerogative.

jasminemai Wed 23-Apr-14 18:41:05

Since I have known my dh hes always been in to older women and I met him when we were both teens. It is very rare for me to fancy a man above 40, and even thats famous ones. Normal men I prefer a lot younger than that for looks.

Tiredstilltired Wed 23-Apr-14 18:42:54

I think ultimately a lot of men like attractive, slim ( not skinny), women who are smiley, confident, fun and attentive.
I can look at young men and think, what a good looking lad, but certainly not in a sexual way.

OPohdear Wed 23-Apr-14 19:01:29

smiley, confident, fun and attentive - sure, all good. slim i think is more cultural conditioning (just think how ideals of beauty have changed). Morbidly obese might be offputting but what's not to like about a few love handles?

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 19:10:32

OPohdear nothing I think. Being realistic, most married women have a few love love handles after a certain age, and statistically, the majority of married women don't get divorced.

I think its important to remember here that we are not talking about the preferences of most men, but of a very specialised sub-group, mainly those who are not in a committed relationship by early middle age.

I'm not going to criticise that. Everyone is different. I do think that unrealistic reasons have been provided for it though. Very few middle aged men will attract and keep attracted a much younger woman. Its a way of thinking which is guaranteed to keep them single or dissatisfied.

Maybe we need to look at how we are raising men. Female culture seems to aspire towards husband and children, male culture not so much.

FastLoris Wed 23-Apr-14 20:33:20

OPohdear -

"but in my experience other men, especially fathers, who prefer ‘fresh flesh’ are either:

a) misogynists
b) seriously immature
or c) brainwashed by soft/hard porn, and by soft porn I include pretty much all advertising/lads mags/etc…"

That can't possibly make sense. You must have it back-to-front.

Porn and advertising are businesses. They exist to make money, and they do so by catering to what people want. Advertisers attempt to attach whatever imagery to their product they think will make people happy and give it positive associations. In the case of "sex sells" that usually means young, fit bodies. Pornographers attempt to produce porn that will turn as many people as possible on, and mostly that means the same thing.

It's not a question of advertising and porn brainwashing people (although I'm sure there is a certain feedback loop by which that happens too). It's a question of them reacting to what the market says it wants. And history and cultural studies tell us that market long predates the mass media - if you look at sexual preferences and behaviour of men through the ages. In fact anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists have found sexual preference for youth to be one of the most culturally universal traits.

The alternative explanation you seem to suggest - that men are naturally more attracted to older women but porn and advertising somehow brainwash them to think otherwise - doesn't make any sense. WHY would the media bother doing that? Why wouldn't they just use old models and pornstars instead? Why fight against men's natural instincts and try to change them, when there is a plentiful population of older women that could be employed instead to just exploit those instincts as they are? That seems terribly far fetched.

Of course noone can say that ALL men (or all women) like one particular thing. Sexuality is gloriously varied. If you prefer older women than that's your thing, as it is plenty of other people's thing. But it doesn't make you superior to those who don't or mean that they all must be immature misogynists.

The OP itself, of course, framed the question in terms of a generalisation. Every generalisation is going to have variance and exception.

islingtonmo Wed 23-Apr-14 20:47:17

Oh dear, sigh. Here he goes again. I feel obligated to do my duty and correct this rather tedious chump, as everyone else on this thread has had to.

(damn sisterhood grin).

Advertising works by selling discomfort, by selling uneasiness, by encouraging people to go against their natural instincts and be dissatisfied.

That's the whole point of it. 'Luxury' products are often a sham. I suppose you really might be one of those people who will spend sixty quid on a bottle of perfumed water because some clever team has put together a campaign to make you think you'll be the perfect urbane man-about-town (hmmm....come to think of it, if you're that gullible I have some stained babygros, which I can tell you will make you a lot attractive to younger women. £40 a pop)

Ditto with the media. The point of a lot of so-called 'news' isn't to inform the public but to stir up people's baser instincts - of course it's very sweet and naive of you to think that newspapers don't have an agenda, but actually, erm, they do.

UtterFool Wed 23-Apr-14 20:49:52

Personally speaking...there is nothing more attractive than confidence & experience regardless of age.

Which is why I used to have a thing for older women.

Another sweeping generalism but when I was younger I found older women to have more confidence and were more comfortable about themselves.

Thouneedsbedamned Wed 23-Apr-14 21:02:55

Take a look at the some of the past threads where people have posted their celeb crush. There is no normal. There is no common denominator. There are just people with different tastes who are attracted to different traits whether those be physical or personality based.

Once people start to realise that men and women aren't two groups of homogeneous masses with the same desires and the same expectations then perhaps the level of confidence that a lot of posters claim is so attractive can be reached by those who do not necessarily fall into the parameters of media attractiveness.

Darkesteyes Wed 23-Apr-14 21:06:15

I was a size 28 through most of my twenties and a 12/14 in my thirties. Im currently a 16 though still losing. Im 41 this year. But ppl tell me I look better than I did at 21 And I don't yet have any wrinkles.

But it IS about more than looks It is about the alchemy of attraction. Sexual chemistry.....spark......seeing someone and just knowing.....!!!!

FastLoris Wed 23-Apr-14 21:07:49

Oh dear, sigh. Here he goes again. I feel obligated to do my duty and correct this rather tedious chump, as everyone else on this thread has had to.

(damn sisterhood grin).

You know, given your sisterhood's confident claim to the moral high ground, you're awfully free and easy with the inappropriate, aggressive and frankly nasty personal attacks.

I'm frankly bewildered at how the simple fact of someone holding an opposing viewpoint about the objective reality of a particular issue, can inspire a group of people to think it's appropriate to:

- call that person every nasty, spiteful name they can think of
- make sexist comments questioning that person's manhood, since real men apparently "don't have time to sit around chatting on the internet"
- make disparaging references to the apparent perception of that person's professional life (where the fuck that one came from, and how the FUCK it was perceived as being relevant or appropriate - Jesus I can't even get close).

I'm going to be honest and admit that I have found some of the things said here extremely hurtful, as they were presumably designed to be. I really can't see how that should mean I don't have the right to express my honest opinion about the issue at hand though, or continue discussing it with those who want to do so in good faith.

But oh well... carry on. I haven't responded in kind and I'm not going to. Partly because I can't be arsed, and partly because I really think when people stoop to that level, they say a lot more about themselves than they do about anyone else.

Advertising works by selling discomfort, by selling uneasiness, by encouraging people to go against their natural instincts and be dissatisfied.

That's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

neiljames77 Wed 23-Apr-14 21:12:29

Personally speaking, in my teens and into my early 20's, physical appearance was the be all and end all. It's only as you get older that you realise that other things like sense of humour, support and being a friend too, carry much more significance. I suppose men that see women purely on age or appearance do grow up eventually but for many, it'll be too late.

habibimummy Wed 23-Apr-14 21:17:00

grin wow

doziedoozie Wed 23-Apr-14 21:20:18

Just been looking at Rowan Atkinson pics with 'new love'.

The assumption is that he has left his wife for a younger model. His wife looks stunning, perhaps she kicked him into touch and he has gone after the next one who came along, assumptions can be very wrong.

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 21:27:31

Yeh, they've been married long enough to be well and truly sick of each other old romantic here or what

I was all about appearance in my teens and 20s too. I wanted a man to reflect well on me! [shame] I cared more about appearing happy or desirable than BEING happy/desired.

Only after the tall handsome well-qualified well-paid man turned out to be a controlling bully did I have an epiphany. Youth was wasted on me when I was young.

There's no point having regrets but I just wish I could have learned some of these lessons from books or from friends. I had to learn every single bloody lesson the HARD WAYY

RyvitaSesame Wed 23-Apr-14 21:32:06

THOUNeedsbedamned that's so true about celebrity crushes. They seem so charitable to me. Alan Rickman? Billy Connolly? Really? really is their agent paying you to say so on line? Flipping heck. My postman is fitter and better looking than either of those two!

I often think people aim very low in their celebrity crushes. What is the point having a celebrity crush on an old man with a beard. I don't get it. But then, I'm the single one!

Darkesteyes Wed 23-Apr-14 21:35:19

Ryvita I LIKE older men Always have done.

Thouneedsbedamned Wed 23-Apr-14 21:39:37

FastLoris "In fact anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists have found sexual preference for youth to be one of the most culturally universal traits."

Are you happy with having the same emotional spectrum of a Neanderthal? Before you accuse me of calling you one, I must state emphatically that I am not. I am just speaking in terms of "evolution".

Evolutionary psychologists have also found that men killed the offspring of other males if their chosen mate had already bore a child. You don't see the step-parents on here doing that do you? No, we make concious choices for the well being of others around us based on our increased capacity for empathy and our own social awareness.

Evolution has got us this far, but it is society that will ultimately shape and define us as a species. It depends on whether or not you want to have your personality defined by your genetics rather than your experiences or your own code of ethics.

Darkesteyes Wed 23-Apr-14 21:43:55

Brilliant post thouneeds Some excellent points.

habibimummy Wed 23-Apr-14 21:46:37

first there was Darwin:

monkey----------> man

via nature

then Nietzsche:

man--------------> superman/uber mensch/best version of himself he can be

via education, experience, spirituality

good stuff thou

FastLoris Wed 23-Apr-14 22:03:45

Thouneeds -

Evolutionary psychology is indeed a difficult area and I'm certainly not saying I believe in all of its claims. But I think the mistake you're making is failing to distinguish between universal characteristics and non-universal acts.

When evolutionary psychologists claim to isolate a sexual preference for youth that is culturally universal, that doesn't mean for one moment that they are claiming one particular set of actions must always flow from that. As I said early on in this thread, even if men do find younger women, in general, more sexually arousing, that really doesn't mean any more than what it says. What we end up DOING in our lives comes about via a hugely complex interaction of many different motivations and preferences; you can't reduce it to one particular input. Exactly as you say here:

No, we make conscious choices for the well being of others around us based on our increased capacity for empathy and our own social awareness.

although empathy and social awareness are also part of our evolved and biological selves. The distinction between "base" urges and "higher" self control is not really a valid one. It's more just that the brain is very complex, and operates in a very complex environment weighing up many competing factors.

neiljames77 Wed 23-Apr-14 22:11:34

I wish I'd have paid more attention at school.

Haven't bothered reading the thread.

Just wanted to comment on the thread title.

Yes, they do.

Twinklestein Wed 23-Apr-14 22:35:13

One of the things I liked about Mumsnet was the opportunity to avoid the 1000s of men on the net spouting poorly digested evolutionary psychology... Can't spit for it...

doconabike Wed 23-Apr-14 22:43:50

Twink if they actually had some critical thinking skills

...then they would have jobs and lives where they were respected and listened to, by people they respected....

... then wouldn't be resentful of their status in life

... then they wouldn't feel the urge to continuously spout their poorly thought out 'theories' to all and sundry, whilst spectacularly missing the 'main point'

And so the merry-go-round of Life continues. Still love MN though grin

PS Am I the only one relieved my DD's piano teacher is female? blush

Fasttouch Wed 23-Apr-14 22:44:28

To answer the question, yes they do but why wouldn't they if they can find their ideal woman but younger that's only a positive right? It's like asking if most women would rather be with a taller man.

It doesn't mean all men are going to try date women younger than 35 or that they will ignore woman older than that. Plus there could be other reasons like they are thinking of starting a family but don't want to be rushed.

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 22:47:45

There seems to be a bit of a lack of understanding basic human biology relating to behavioural patterns in humans. Particularly social facilitation and how humans learn. I think a poster may have got a bit over excited with the google button, and forgotten much of human developmental theory along the way.

JackyDanny Wed 23-Apr-14 22:51:56

Preference for youth? Er, life expectancy was only about 30 wasn't it?

doconabike Wed 23-Apr-14 22:53:22


"...Google tells me I'm attractive and successful, and women give a shit about my (poorly thought out) opinions and find my (tedious, whiny, fake attempts at) friendliness charming and disarmingly engaging...." LETS ALL DO WHAT GOOGLE SAYS, EH?

ps never used Google in my line of work to look something I don't know about up quickly so I can fake it. Not me guv....blushgrin

Twinklestein Wed 23-Apr-14 23:04:32

Quite. We've got our own little Dr Google Mansplainer...

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 23:04:51

Even applying basic logic, the OP's proposition cant be true - its safe to make the generalisation that most men aren't with women under 35, because statistically its borne out. So that would make male human beings the most spectacularly unsuccessful (in terms of having srxual preferences met) in the entire world. Whereas evolution proves that human beings are the most consistently successful reproductive species.

Evolution also tends to favour good genes. You are not telling me that a man would choose an overweight, spotty, plain teenager over a beautiful and youthful 40 year old? Some men, if given the opportunity, would shag the spotty teenager and stay with their wife, in whom they have the most genetic investment. Some men would avoid the spotyy teenager like the plague, in case she turns out to be a nutter.

More and more, I think its about attractiveness, rather than age. If you apply the proposition to an older demographic, say over 50, again the pool is diluted by those being more likely to find a partner and settle down earlier being removed from it. And the assumption that all men remain sexually active and motivated, which they don't!

UtterFool Wed 23-Apr-14 23:11:33

Nail, head wink

Although the OP said that she thought that most men would 'prefer' to be....

This could be true but doesn't mean that most men end up this way.

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 23:21:11

In fact, so socially unacceptable is a marked sexual preference for only very young women by older males, and vice versa, that we have a term for it - peadophilia.

I was talking about a man like this recently in his fifties, who hung around a stableyard where he made a habit of helping out only very young girls. His behaviour became increasingly disturbing, and he was made to leave. Not all of these girls were under the age of consent, but nevertheless it was pretty obvious that he had an unnaturally keen interest in very young girls. Fortunately, there were enough sensible adults around to put a stop to it before any real harm was done.

Now this is not to say that any man in his fifties being helpful to young girls is a problem - it was this individual's attempting to groom the young girls that was disturbing, and most men would have no difficulty in recognising the inappropriateness. To suggest that most men have similar preferences to this odd individual would be extremely insulting.

I'm sure we've all seen media references to how peadophiles and groomers attempt to justify their behaviour by attempting to normalise it and suggests its what most men do and want.

I think placing upper and lower age limits on sexual preference can be misleading, and suspect there are years of grey area either side...

goalsaved Wed 23-Apr-14 23:38:18

Indeed, Melonade.

I've had a few (yuck yuck yuck!) times when someone like that has been on the fringes of my social circle.

And there is NOTHING natural about them: they aren't an extension of some normal type. Some posters seem to be suggesting that they represent the secret animal desires of all men. But they are, most definitely, different.

They seemed to be almost operating like weird five year old boys stuck in a fifty year old mans body, so wanting to 'please let me intimately play with/be with the little girls and make them my special friends'.

There is something wrong about them: they are broken. They need help, but also are not normal and healthy, and should not be treated as such.

I was clubbing with a gang from uni, and they were all - easily and naturally - able to overlook the 'dolled up sixteen year olds desperate for attention' for women their own age.

Even though they tend to be very 'out there' socially (think...erm...somewhat controversial fancy dress costumes and the kind of horseplay/drinking games that only gangs of super-fit young men with lots of energy can dream of) they simply COULDN'T go there.

Not just the censure of society: the idea of finding anything remotely sexual about the sixteen year olds was repulsive to them.

UtterFool Wed 23-Apr-14 23:39:31

I agreed with you a moment ago but think you're taking it too far now.

How the hell did we get from being interested in women under 35 to paedophilia?

MelonadeAgain Wed 23-Apr-14 23:48:50

Hmmn utterfool its maybe something you have to observe personally. It didn't even occur for a while until it was pointed out by a social worker on the yard. Obviously there's no concerns about men being attracted to.mature adult females or within their own age group or a few years younger. Specifically being attracted only to numbers of young girls isn't really considered socially acceptable, is it?

FastLoris Thu 24-Apr-14 00:12:18

doconabike -

I reported that last post, which I've never done before, because I was just so gobsmacked you could sink that low I didn't know how else to deal with it.

I've gone from bewildered to positively revolted though. Urggh.

Looks like you win. Well done.

doconabike Thu 24-Apr-14 00:41:25

Loris, turn the laptop off, and go to bed, love. It's only the Internet.

I'm sorry that you seem to be a bit upset you haven't got a chorus of welcoming voices telling you how clever you are, and how they're just, so, grateful for your opinions, and some badly thought out science, but it isn't really anyone's fault.

UtterFool Thu 24-Apr-14 06:01:53


At the extreme i.e. Teens, then it's definitely not normal for a man to be interested. Even into the 20,s I'd be hmm but from there it probably becomes more acceptable.

Then you get the Bernie Eccleston's of the world and then everyone is left raising sn eyebrow!

MelonadeAgain Thu 24-Apr-14 12:02:01

And of course you get people who just fall in love (with other adults), irrespective of age. It can be hard sometimes to distinguish between whats dangerous, predatory behaviour and whats not, even experts struggle. But I do think targeting purely very very young girls isn't a good sign in a person. Some people do prefer youth, some don't. Personally I prefer people who look around the same age as myself.

FastLoris you do seem to lack awareness of certain other traits that many, or in fact, most human males have, and one of those is based on social interaction and responding to social cues. You also seem to assume that everyone else has the same preferences as yourself, which is untrue - humans are very diverse.

I don't think the Jimmy Savilles of the world are typical at all. Very Atypical I would say, and odd. I guess he operated on the basis of convincing people that he was normal.

OPohdear Thu 24-Apr-14 14:05:16

FastLoris, it's been explained to you how advertising works. The 'sexual preference for youth' of which you speak is simply about procreation.

What we're really talking about here is why some men have a problem with their DWs' bodies naturally changing. And as I said, I think it's because they're either misogynists, immature or brainwashed. The first two you can't do too much about, but the third is definitely treatable.

neiljames77 Thu 24-Apr-14 14:20:39

Works both ways though I suppose.
They're more likely to sell underpants modelled by Beckham than Johnny Vegas.

OPohdear Thu 24-Apr-14 14:29:36

Probably because most men would rather have a body like Beckham's than Johnny Vegas's...

Tiredstilltired Thu 24-Apr-14 15:02:06

I think when men (or women!) think of youth, they imagine the very attractive models and young girls we are exposed to in the media as the norm. When in reality a lot of young women are attractive, a significant proportion of them can be spotty, chubby and no more attractive then anyone else.
We are also led to believe that women 45 and above are written off and are old, saggy, grey and fat. Some may be, but many women on this age group are very attractive.
There are so many factors. Being young does not automatically make you attractive just as being older doesn't mean you are no longer sexy.

OPohdear Thu 24-Apr-14 17:34:28

You see, I think it's because of cultural conditioning that some people consider 'old, saggy, grey and fat' (and I'm not talking frail old or morbidly obese fat) to be inherently unsexy. It's not, especially in healthy-looking women. Of course people have personal preferences, many of which come from childhood (I've got a theory that boys fancy girls that are physically the opposite of their mums), but the idea that men think younger women are inherently sexier than older women is, I believe, a myth. But it's a very powerful myth (with a grain of truth, ie the procreation imperative, at its heart), as we can see on this thread...

MelonadeAgain Thu 24-Apr-14 17:37:33

It just doesn't happen like the OP suggests. As a teenager I had no appeal to even slightly older men. They were more interested in slightly older, more sophisticated women. They just weren't interested in us schoolgirls, or if they were they were a bit weird. We would have called them pervs and laughed at them. At uni even a two or three year age gap seemed unsurmountable to most of us. But what has remained consistent in my experience, is that large numbers of younger men are interested. I'm sure lack of availability rules that out for many of them.

This is what makes me think things are maybe different in less educated sections of society. Most men I know want a wife or girlfriend they can be proud of, not embarrassed by.

Latara Thu 24-Apr-14 18:02:02

Hmm I've been observing couples lately and it seems that age is the last consideration for the man of the couple - all the very loved up couples I've seen recently were of a similar age.

Including some the wrong side of 65 holding hands, so nice to see.

neiljames77 Thu 24-Apr-14 18:03:02

MelonadeAgain - I agree with nearly everything you've said on this thread but the last remark sounds a bit snobby. It's like when 'less educated' women misbehave on a night out with their mates, they attract all kinds of disparaging remarks. Yet when the posh girls behave in a similar manner, it's just viewed as high jinks and letting their hair down.

Latara Thu 24-Apr-14 18:05:50

Anyway I'm 37 and recently got asked out by a 23yr old. No, I did not accept because a) he was a patient so it was inappropriate and b) he was far too young.

I've recently dated a 30 yr old man, a 39 yr old and tonight I'm dating a 46 yr old. I'm a bit nervous because I normally date men in their 30s (no reason, it's just happened that way). I'm worried that I won't be sophisticated enough for him... well let's see.

MelonadeAgain Thu 24-Apr-14 18:16:49

Neiljames77 I don't know any other way of referring to people who have been to university. Am I meant to pretend they don't exist? I'm guessing that other groups behave differently, how do you do this without getting into class warfare? Some of the people you read about in the newspapers for example. But my personal experience is mainly of the professions, and the professions tend to date within the professions and prefer similarity in partners. Even in my hobbies, I see the same thing. I'm not in a position to speak for everyone, and I guess some men must be attracted to very young women, but I'm struggling to recall any within my own social circle.

I don't know who you would describe as posh or not or what behaviour you're describing.

Latara you have reminded me of turning down a champion athlete, incredibly good looking and personable young man, simply because I was in fourth year at uni and he was a first year. I always regretted that one! He ended up being a professional athlete and then returned to being a dentist. Sigh...

neiljames77 Thu 24-Apr-14 18:37:26

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood or misinterpreted what you said. It just looked like you were suggesting educated, professional men wanted women they could be proud of and I just wondered where that leaves the rest of society and how they should /do feel about the women in their lives.

I apologise if that's not what you meant though.

MelonadeAgain Thu 24-Apr-14 19:57:41

Not at all. Its hard not to offend or give someone the wrong impression on the internet because you miss out all those nuances that you get in face to face communication.

I think most of the men I've worked alongside or met through work would be pretty embarrassed to have a pimply teenager by their sides who had no other "assets" than being young. Which is what the OP seems to suggest. The OP and some others are mistaking youth and attractiveness as being the same thing. Some men do go for women less educated than themselves, but I doubt its most men.

Latara Fri 25-Apr-14 12:04:49

I dated the 46yr old last night. He turned out to be a lovely guy, very sporty, good looking and attractive personality. Now I just have to get a second date it's been offered but will it actually happen? Here's hoping...

Btw he seemed very happy to have met 37yr old me. smile)))

neiljames77 Fri 25-Apr-14 12:31:57

It wasn't avoiretre was it? If it was, you've only got 5 years left to keep him interested. grin

AnyFucker Fri 25-Apr-14 12:56:18


Latara Fri 25-Apr-14 13:10:45

I hope it wasn't avoiretre then. No offence avoir.

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 09:54:15

I've just seen Michelle Collins on telly this morning. She looks more attractive now than she did 20 years ago. I think she's about 50ish isn't she?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 12:10:39

Lots of women of a certain age look better than they did 20 odd years ago. In my youth in the 1980's I was a bloody fright (bad fashion, bad hair, lack of confidence etc)

These days, I reckon I look and come across much better

jjsuk Sat 26-Apr-14 15:48:32


neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 15:52:09


AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 17:59:13

What are you disagreeing with, neil ?

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 18:15:22

I'm assuming jjsuk was answering the original question.
I know what you might have been thinking but it wasn't that.

If it's any consolation, in the 80's, I wore a Pringle jumper that only old men playing golf would wear these days, jumbo cords and red Kicker shoes. If I walked around now wearing what I did back then, people would think the fucking circus was in town. (oh and I had streaks in my hair ffs)

AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 18:25:59

1980's fashion bloody terrible smile

RyvitaSesame Sat 26-Apr-14 18:37:52

Eyebrows that had never seen a tweezer, shiny forehead, frizzly hair, too pale make up, un flattering clothes, colours, patterns, lipstick...... i cant speak for every woman but i feel better now that i did at 20.
Look at jennifer aniston pre-feris beuller's day off series. Look at her now.

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 19:10:14

I even used to roll up my jacket sleeves.....................what a twat. grin

AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 19:11:13


I wore footless tights and legwarmers. FFS.

RyvitaSesame Sat 26-Apr-14 19:23:04

Mullet - tick!
Fingerless gloves inside even while eating - tick
Plastic zip earrings
2,nd hole piereced in ear

I saw a picture of myself at 19 at a debs a while back ( my so-called prime according to men!) and i laughed and winced, i looked like i had polished my face with an industrial sander and then glossed it with varnish. If id known how shiny and white my face was i wouldnt have left the house til i was 28

AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 19:27:18

When I look at photo's of myself from the 80's I look like a stuffed Lady Di with a poker up my arse and shoulder pads from Dynasty (and about 20 years older than I am now ..)


neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 19:29:01

....oh and Grolsh bottle tops on my laces. What was all that about?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Apr-14 19:29:54


VW sign thingies around the neck

My dad had a VW, he was incensed when it was nicked

Tinks42 Sat 26-Apr-14 19:34:12

Im 51 and have many admirers.. Find the ones that want young rather sad twats smile

superstarheartbreaker Sat 26-Apr-14 20:24:06

This is such a depressing thread especially as I've just turned 36 :-( . Having said that, many of the messages I'm getting on Tinder are from young lads in their 20s who like experienced women!

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 20:29:14

You should only get depressed if you're into blokes that drive BMW's, have all their body hair waxed and read FHM. Other than that, you should be ok.

Tinks42 Sat 26-Apr-14 20:38:26

what on earth has a car got to do with anything?
what on earth has hairy or non hairy got to do with anything?
reading FHM is a bit silly unless you are under 25

thanks for telling me I "should" be ok [smiles]

Darkesteyes Sat 26-Apr-14 21:06:25

My dad had a 1975 Mercedes in the 80s Apart from me being sick on the back seat at 8 years old on way back from Butlins Skeggy in 81, later in the 80s he used to park it at the allotment he had and he got the emblem on the front snapped off and nicked 3 times because of that Beastie Boys craze.
I had a very big perm in the late 80s Never again.

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 21:50:16

Tinks42 It was because superstar said it was depressing. smile
Those 3 things though, together with a permatan and bleached teeth on a middle aged man is the kind of bloke the op is talking about I think.
The attention span of a goldfish and about as deep as a papercut.
Those are the blokes that set parameters of what they're prepared to accept in a woman and I don't think they're in the majority.

Darkesteyes Sat 26-Apr-14 21:59:27

Deep as a papercut grin

Tinks42 Sat 26-Apr-14 22:09:26

Neil (guessing that's your name) I really think you are in a world that you 'shouldnt' even try to understand. I also personally think its rather freaky that you would want to be on here. If a guy I dated told me he was on mumsnet id laugh (not in a good way) think twat and never go out with him again.

handfulofcottonbuds Sat 26-Apr-14 22:23:05

tinks - I think your post is a little harsh. MN isn't just for women and there are quite a lot of men on here who also give good advice and support.

You don't have to be a woman to understand most of the dilemmas posted on here and this thread is specifically asking whether men would rather date a woman under 35.

I welcome men's views as well as women's. I read it that neil's reply was directed at superstar but I could have it wrong?

FWIW - I think some men like the idea of dating a woman under 35 but it all changes when your personality shines through. I don't look my age and if I was in a bar, I certainly wouldn't have a man ask me how old I was before he decided to date me. They go by (initially) how you look and then by your personality - as I do too.

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 22:24:59

I suppose a year ago, if one of my mates would have told me that he posted on MN, I'd probably think the same of him.
I only originally posted on here because I wanted a female perspective on a relationship problem. I like it on here though. I'm as surprised as anyone.

When I'm ready to start dating again, I'll make sure I don't ask you out.(it won't be because of your age though)

Darkesteyes Sat 26-Apr-14 22:26:12

Sorry but I think Neil comes across really well and a lot of his posts have made me giggle which ive needed lately.

I don't mind him being on here at all.

RyvitaSesame Sat 26-Apr-14 22:34:16

There are some male posters that land on mn to put wimmen in their place but wouldnt have put neiljames in that category. I think women are more conversational. Not every conversation has to be about somethingvspecific. It is justvwhere the chat flows. That doesnt suit all men but some enjoy it. Do you enjoy fiction neiljames? I think men that mn like fiction. Have met so many men who say they only like non fiction, autobiographies, books about a topic.
I likeca man who is like a woman. Unless it is neil parsons.

Darkesteyes Sat 26-Apr-14 22:39:11

Ryvita I reckon you will like this author then (if you haven't heard of him already)

RyvitaSesame Sat 26-Apr-14 22:44:04

i have one on my shelf. The title puts me off "a special relationship". It has been on my shelf for 7 years!

I love jonathan tropper. He is american. have read them all Except the last.

neiljames77 Sat 26-Apr-14 22:47:36

Thanks for the kind words everyone. smile

I think Tinks may have thought I was having a go at her in some way. I wasn't though.

Erm.........I'm not like a woman at all!!! grin
I'm just under 6' tall and weigh 15st!!
I'm ashamed to say I don't read ANY books. My mind wanders too much and I'd rather wait until the film comes out.

neiljames77 Sun 27-Apr-14 00:08:03

I did admit up-thread though to being a twat. Tinks has got me on that one. grin

Darkesteyes Sun 27-Apr-14 00:12:01


BreakingDad77 Sun 27-Apr-14 01:04:03

I would agree with Kelly and jelly earlier, powerful men will happily take up with the deluded women who throw themselves at them, and hence nurse each others ego.

Among my peers it's seen as bit weird why u need to go out with a young drama ridden person. Tire of the neurotic texts and calls and go for someone more similar.

A confident women can shine at any age, older women I have found though write themselves off more earlier than men in the attractiveness stakes and couldn't be further wrong.

Wasn't there a survey not long ago where it had women like fern brittain etc as women that men actually go for?

UtterFool Sun 27-Apr-14 08:00:13

You should only get depressed if you're into blokes that drive BMW's, have all their body hair waxed and read FHM. Other than that, you should be ok.^

Neil, im going to start getting a complex (hides car keys, wax and copy of FHM) wink


Bit harsh there imho. Despite being a non hairy, FHM reading BMW driver, I was made to feel very welcome when I first visited.

This may be a predominantly female space but im not a troll and it's good to learn and gain a female perspective. Surely it's better that men try to see the world from the other side (so to speak) thsn take none at all?

Although if the consensus is that men aren't welcome then I'd graciously part company smile

Tiredstilltired Sun 27-Apr-14 08:16:25

I think most women over the age of 25 would think any guy who reads fhm us a bit cringeworthy.
Rather like a spotty, nervous teen from school. A big turn off.

Hickorydickory12 Sun 27-Apr-14 08:41:39

Ha ha just read that George Clooney has got engaged to a 36 year old woman.
The ultimate guy who could have anyone chooses someone over 35!

Fasttouch Sun 27-Apr-14 08:56:25

Well he is 52 so that is still a large age gap.

Hickorydickory12 Sun 27-Apr-14 09:03:08

Yes def an age gap. But even older men have a limit re age.

AskBasil Sun 27-Apr-14 09:26:13

I think once you're over about mid thirties tbh, age becomes irrelevant and it's more about life-stage than age. 36 and 52 age gap is not really an issue, whereas 26 and 42 would be a bit different.

RyvitaSesame Sun 27-Apr-14 09:48:00

Well it os not an issue if man a handsomeovie star

I winder what age waldo sanchez us...... closer to52 than 36?

AnyFucker Sun 27-Apr-14 10:46:22

George Clooney is gay isn't he, so not sure he is very representative smile

AskBasil Sun 27-Apr-14 10:48:25

Is he really?

<Out of the loop>

AnyFucker Sun 27-Apr-14 10:50:27

So the long standing, and persistent, rumours go

neiljames77 Sun 27-Apr-14 11:31:50

I think there's rumours about nearly all of male Hollywood stars no matter how straight they are. Even John Travolta has been thrown into the mix.

(this isn't me twatsplaining btw)

AskBasil Sun 27-Apr-14 11:36:13


Oh yes, thinking about it maybe I've heard those rumours but just instantly forget them and have to be reminded every time. grin

Twinklestein Sun 27-Apr-14 11:41:16

John Travolta has had gay kiss and tells, one from a longstanding gay lover.

I don't think Clooney's gay, he just likes short term affairs. Whether he will actually go through with this apparent engagement remains to be seen.

AnyFucker Sun 27-Apr-14 11:43:29

John Travolta is soooo gay grin

AnyFucker Sun 27-Apr-14 11:45:11

neil, it tends to go that you will only get accused of twatsplaining if you actually are twatsplaining

relax, man

neiljames77 Sun 27-Apr-14 12:02:22

I know.
I just keep forgetting to put the smiley face at the end. smile

RyvitaSesame Sun 27-Apr-14 14:15:19

Lol at "even john travolta" , like he is the most straight of all

I did wonder if gc were really gay earlier. Maybe the rumours suit him. He gets a wide fan base gay and straight. Now, like hugh grant, and simon cowell, he suddenly thinks, hmmmm now im getting on a bit id better leave some dna behind me when i go.
Ok . That is possible isnt it?

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