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MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 18:03:07

I apologise in advance for the very long first post, but this is a story and I have no idea how I am going to move on with my life. My husband and I had a baby 11 years into our marriage as he was suddenly desperate to become a father. I already had a daughter from a previous relationship. I didn’t want to have another child if I am honest because I knew that he would struggle to cope and that it would be such a huge change. I was 42 when our son was born, my husband 39. Our son was a very difficult baby who suffered reflux, cried constantly and didn’t in fact sleep at night until he was 2 ½ years old. In the meantime, he was referred for statementing for ASD due to severe behavioural problems. Clearly this put a huge strain on our relationship. 2013 was a very difficult year, my husband receiving a life changing medical diagnosis which affected him quite deeply, I also had two cancer scares and some serious family issues. I also had severe PND which I didn’t seek proper help for, thinking I could cope. All of this put a huge strain on our marriage in many ways. Last October, my husband walked into the kitchen at 8 in the morning and told me he didn’t love me anymore and was leaving, he then walked out for the whole day rendering himself unavailable. When he returned home he said he wouldn’t leave for a few weeks but I got together every last one of his possessions/clothes and asked him to leave, which he did early the next morning. I was absolutely stunned, I didn’t see it coming at all and while I knew we were having a rough patch, there was nothing that was insurmountable. He assured me that there was nobody else involved and I believed him, I couldn’t bear to think otherwise. However, his behaviour was then astonishing. He raised a divorce petition with his solicitor within 3 days on the grounds of my unreasonable behaviour (so I knew he wasn’t coming back apparently), sacked me from his company (completely illegally), cut off all financial support (despite initially promising that nothing would change financially), cancelled the Sky package, mine and my daughter’s mobile phones and took his name off all the utilities, even taking the credit balances. He had already set up post redirection to the house of a friend where he said he would be staying and announced that I would have to start claiming income support and tax credits and that he would pay the mortgage for the next 13 weeks until I could claim Mortgage Interest Relief. I was just stunned. He just kept throwing things at me, not giving me a chance to breathe or recover. I didn’t eat a thing for two weeks, existing on coffee and protein shakes, losing 2 stone in the process, all while trying to care for two devastated children. I then received a text from him that was clearly not meant for me “you are my life”...I thought I was going to have a heart attack, the shock was indescribable. I subsequently discovered the OW was somebody who had been known to us for around 12 years and was unfortunately somebody I really disliked, much older than my husband and to top it all, her husband was killed last March in an RTA. I initially made email contact with her, explaining my sadness, she replied but tried to use her dead husband and grieving child to imply that she was vulnerable and nowhere near ready for a relationship and I took some comfort (and hope) from that, but it soon became clear that this was not the case and she became increasingly nasty and vile as time went on, especially when I caught them out at a log cabin weekend away when my husband said he was on business. She has called me some awful things, complained about being “bored of your pitiful your bleating”, calling me a “sad fuck”, “grow up and move on”, “if you were so great, why did he leave”, “you kid yourself this is all my doing”, absolutely tortuous abuse. Surely she is the one who involved herself with a married man?! This woman runs 3 child based businesses in a small town and can’t afford the damage to her reputation. She even had a solicitor write to me to threaten me. I have suffered an assault by my husband with police and social services becoming involved, the hell of a contact centre as a result of that, it has been a never ending nightmare. I finally filed for my own divorce on the grounds of their adultery which my husband tried to overturn by pretending he was gay (!). He finally told me that he met her again after a gap of 8 years at the beginning of October via work. He said that two days before he left me (on the 19th), “they” decided they wanted to be together and he tried to do the right thing by not having sex with her until after he’d left the house!! I have subsequently found out that he moved straight in with her (after less than 3 weeks, really?!) and only 6 months after the death of her husband. I can’t believe this relationship hasn’t been going on for much longer but he completely denies it. He re-registered his business to her business address 5 days after leaving me, listing her address as his home address. Last week he cancelled the car insurance just as I was leaving to take the children to school. Who is this man I was married to for 14 years and has turned into a complete stranger, selfish beyond belief and without any moral compass whatsoever? They taunt me with taking custody of my son, tell me I am not fit to be his mother, yet my husband shows no interest in my son’s very many medical appointments and only sees him twice a week, leaving me to pick up the emotional mess my little boy is reduced to every time. I just don’t know how to cope. I have developed some serious health problems as a result, which she saw fit to mock quite unbelievably and am trying really hard to keep myself together but it’s getting harder by the day. I have a great support network, even my husband’s family who have completely disowned him but I feel so lonely and frightened. I never imagined I would end up in a situation like this at this time of my life. My husband has given up EVERYTHING except the clothes on his back to be with this woman who is a horror to look at and surely must have some emotional issues to be behaving as she does and “moving on” so quickly after the death of her husband. My husband no longer has any friends, all have turned their back yet apparently it has all been “worth it” as she gives him lots of “cuddles, kisses and greets him nicely when he comes through the door”. I am not even joking. I am starting counselling this week but with the divorce becoming ever more nasty and awful, I can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel. My husband is also desperate to involve my son with this woman, something I think is totally inappropriate at this stage, especially given her antagonism towards me. I just don’t know which way to turn. Again, apologies for such a long post and believe me, this is the short version. How will I ever recover from all of this and how do I cope with such a vindictive pair especially in relation to my children? I feel like my life is no longer my own .

JaneinReading Wed 19-Mar-14 18:20:49

How awful for you.

Is the main issue the disability of your child and the fact you don't work so need financial support from your ex husband? Did you give up work when your second child was born?

Do you have a solicitor and could you apply for emergency interim maintenance until there is a final court hearing on finances?

None of who did what and who said what is really relevant although it will have a big impact on how you feel.

Is the father of your first child involved in its life and does he pay towards the first child?

Can you not negotiate a financial settlement with your ex to avoid a court hearing?

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 18:37:20

Thank you JaneinReading...

The financial situation is complicated. I did indeed apply for income support and tax credits . I am just awaiting a decision on the mortgage interest. I have a solicitor funded by family. He pays maintenance but has been a pain with it on occasions. We are currently attempting mediation for finances but again he is being a pain and I have evidence of hiding assets etc. She is going nuts as she has to disclose as they co-habit. Yes, my daughter's father is involved and yes he pays. I think the issue for me is more emotional. These two people have created this entire nightmare, have tried to wipe me out financially and emotionally, abuse me and treat me like a nobody and threaten me constantly so that her "business and reputation" are not affected. I just can't come to terms with that at all.

JaneinReading Wed 19-Mar-14 19:07:05

How difficult for you. It must make it much harder to negotiate the finances objectively too. Perhaps they need to wait another year until things settle down before reaching a final financial settlement.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 19:12:45

Oh God, no way, he will bankrupt himself rather than make sure we are OK! He has already said he is moving out of her house as it's only "temporary accommodation", straight after it was revealed she had to disclose her financial situation (she is well off, her husband was a public servant who died in service in a road accident). He's been living there for five months! I am actually less worried about the finances than I am coping with the hell they are putting me through emotionally. My husband has actually said to me that when my daughter and I are "homeless", that is when "they" will take my son. My poor girl, he's been her stepfather for 14 years. What a disgusting man he is.

mistlethrush Wed 19-Mar-14 19:15:52

I think that you need to stop worrying about them and what they might or might not be doing and start concentrating on yourself and your children and making your future secure for them. I know its going to be difficult to do - but worrying about her really isn't going to help you in anyway. If the police have been involved and a contact centre is involved, is contact the best option for your son - and is this something supported by SS etc?

JaneinReading Wed 19-Mar-14 19:27:37

Yes, the less contact you have with him the better and no contact with her ever again. Just try to keep them utterly out of your mind, do things that cheer you up, learn to be happy again. At least the children have two living fathers who want to see them and one father at least pays. That is more than some children have.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 19:28:52

I know you're right, but they won't let me get on with my life, e-mail abuse, threats, it goes on and on. I have started making plans for the future which hopefully involve moving away and starting again. I had a great career before I gave it up to have the son he begged for and work for his company. My poor little boy, he said "you are only a single parent because you chose not to have a termination"...who says that about their own child? Regarding contact, social services were happy for us to go back to our usual access arrangements once they were satisfied that my son wasn't in danger and we have been discharged since the assault incident. I don't want the contact centre, I have to be honest, it's not an environment I want my son in, given his issues and it was upsetting for him when we had no choice but to use it. I just can't come to terms with how they have behaved. I realise that this is normal behaviour for those who know they are wrong and because of guilt but to keep trying to annihilate me to cover up their own shortcomings is just horrendous :-(. She knew he we had a child with issues and actually emailed me to say her "heart bled for your little man"....not enough not to break up his family though. God, I wish this feeling would pass!

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 19:30:10

JaneinReading...yes you are right, and I do try, but they just won't leave me alone.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 20:19:12

Sorry Mistlethrush, I didn't thank you for your post, so thank you :-)

mistlethrush Wed 19-Mar-14 20:57:20

Threats etc, email abuse - can you see if you can speak to someone who is in the dv section of your police (not as an emergency of course!) and show them the emails and texts etc - it sounds like harassment to me.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 21:54:58

I think I will. She actually reported me to the police for sending "malicious mail" was actually a very upset email I sent to my husband after the first contact centre visit. She has a family liaison officer because of her husband's accident and he contacted me...however, she failed to mention the continuous abuse I had received from her (note I have NEVER sent her abusive mail, have been nothing but civil despite provocation). I had to forward all email contact to him and she ended up being warned. It's just ridiculous. Her last email rant was so so upsetting, it really set me back. I replied saying that I wouldn't dignify her comments to which she responded "dignify this, fuck off you delusional prick". This is a 48 year old woman who has just lost her husband and has a bereaved 7 year old son. Absolutely beyond belief.

pictish Wed 19-Mar-14 22:11:34

Sorry OP I have nothing even slightly useful to impart, but I wanted you to know I had read.
Pair of absolute horrors. A pox upon them. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 19-Mar-14 22:31:25

Pictish...thank's not just me then? They make me feel I am being unreasonable by not just disappearing off the face of the earth, handing over my son and not just accepting my 14 year marriage is over because they decided!! I must be an awful person!

JaneinReading Thu 20-Mar-14 06:56:36

Can yo not just change your email address and then you will not receive emails from them. Never email her yourself either - just try to get a distance between you. Moving a child away never feels right to me as you're moving it away from a parent - you probably would not like it if he moved away with your child. I know it's hard to see these things from both sides but if he and you could put yourselves into the shoes of the other it might get easier for everyone.

iquitsugarnow Thu 20-Mar-14 07:32:34

Oh you poor thing. This sounds awful! I am furious on your behalf and so sorry this is happening to you. What a pair of absolute monsters, honestly.

Firstly, can I suggest you ask for this to be moved to Relationships. Just report your post to MHNQ and they will move it. You will get a lot more replies that way and plenty of emotional support.

I also second the idea of changing your contact details. Do not engage with these awful people who seem to enjoy baiting and taunting you. However furious you feel, talking to them on text or via email is only going to make you angrier. They sound as if they are enjoying winding you up. Don't let them - from now on, I would maintain a dignified silence.

Have you seen a solicitor? I would seriously consider the benefits of your ds having a relationship with his father at all, he and his new woman sound absolutely toxic. Of course they will not get custody, and neither will they make you homeless. These are just empty threats designed to upset you.

Is going back to work an option? The less reliant you are on this man the better in the long run.

I am glad to hear you have RL support. This must be awful for you and so painful. In time hopefully you will see that you are well rid of this vile excuse for a man and his revolting new partner is welcome to him.

I am going to work now but will try to post again later. Please keep posting and definitely get the thread moved to relationships as there are lots of lovely ladies on there going through similar awful situations who will be there for you.

You don't deserve this, you sound lovely. This is all about them and their nasty issues, not about

wannabestressfree Thu 20-Mar-14 08:20:31

I wouldn't except ANY emails from her. Block her. Treat her as something on the bottom of your shoe and inconsequential. You have your children. Please don't let them get under your skin.
Unless it's something involving contact- which should take a paragraph at most- I would just answer 'have forwarded to solicitor' and let them deal with it. Don't waste your reserves on such an arsehole. You will come out ok in this and even better you will have your children's respect.

wannabestressfree Thu 20-Mar-14 08:23:13

And another thing for someone so concerned about you sullying her reputation she is giving you plenty of ammunition. Don't be bullied, pushed into making decisions, brow beaten etc just have the mantra 'have forwarded to my solicitor' and let them stew....
So angry for you. If your in south east your welcome to a cuppa x

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 10:01:42

Thank you everybody, I wish I had posted on here 5 months ago when I was literally on my knees with the pain of it all...

JaneinReading - It is difficult for me to change contact details, I have already had to do that once as my husband cut off my e-mail account and it was a total nightmare letting everybody know. I haven't blocked them simply because they are literally digging their own graves because every bit of abuse, lies, admissions, they have texted and e-mailed them all. They are beyond stupid. I would like to move because they live so close by, my home doesn't feel like my home anymore and I often see my husband driving around in her dead husband's car! I haven't even been able to sleep in my own bed since he left, I am still on a mattress on my son's bedroom floor. I need a fresh start but this won't be easy in my current circumstances!

iquitsugarnow - thank you for your kindness. I am making plans at the moment to refresh my qualifications because I will need a decent job to support the kids, I can't rely on him, he's left us on benefits! My son has just started pre-school as part of his assessment process and will start mainstream school in September. I have a solicitor who is dealing with the finances, I have done the divorce myself and have just received my decree nisi - oh how angry they were that I filed for adultery, the indignation was actually hilarious, it was all about how it would affect her, but I didn't actually name her, I tried to rise above it. I do worry about the toxic situation in relation to my son. I still cannot fathom how somebody could lose their husband and move a virtual stranger in within six months and after what they say was a 19 day "relationship". I believe it has been going on a lot longer than that and this is why my husband is so prickly about financial disclosure. I understand they are pretending he is a lodger (!) and that they haven't fully "come out" yet. It is the first anniversary of her husband's death this weekend. No thought given to her little boy who must be terribly confused. They have also said that my husband and I were "long separated" before they got together, an absolute lie!! What have they got when this is all over? A relationship based on lies, mistrust, affairs, bereavement, abuse. No, I don't want my son involved with her, but it appears I have very little say in that. My husband is counting down the days until 6 months are reached as his solicitor says it is the minimum time they recommend before introductions but I know that my son sees her parents and he has come back speaking about "grandma and granddad", absolutely disgusting.

Wannabeestressfree - thank you! Indeed, I am trying to keep communication to a minimum. I have forwarded all crappy emails to my solicitor and her family liaison officer. It is funny, with two small towns right next to eachother, there are links between friends etc and people will talk! My husband hinted to me yesterday that they are building a case of harassment against me and this was because one of my friends knows somebody who knows her best friend!! How paranoid and ridiculous. I have never harassed them and I have only ever been polite to her because I won't give her the satisfaction. She NEEDS to blame me for everything and sully my reputation to justify what she's done! She even said that it was my fault they decided to get involved. Mental!! I have asked for this thread to be's a blockbuster!! I am in the South East, I will PM you :-) Thank you ladies, I am so glad I took the plunge and posted :-).

mistlethrush Thu 20-Mar-14 10:10:38

MrsC - I know it must be difficult, but you are really spending too much time getting worked up about what they do and what they're saying and how soon it is and the dead husband etc etc etc.

Its awful - I can understand that. However, what you need to be concentrating on is you and your children - not all of that. So find out how you can get your qualifications, start looking at housing, work out what other things your Ex might still have control over and cut them out of your life.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 10:21:20

mistlethrush, I hear you, I really do. However, I do have to consider the effects of all of this on my little boy and it really is a toxic situation. My son is a sensitive little soul, I am unable to trust this woman around him and I know that my husband is in complete denial of the fact that our son is undergoing assessment for autism and he does not see the pieces I have to pick up every time he comes home from an access visit. It is a poisonous situation to put him in and they need to face up to this. I have offered to have a meeting with them both to try and clear the air but predictably, she will not see me as she is a coward. I am doing all of the things I should, the only thing I have no control over is the desperate and all consuming pain I feel about the loss of my family and husband and the total callous disregard with which he has treated us. That is going to take a very long time to come to terms with!

mistlethrush Thu 20-Mar-14 10:25:27

Contact etc is obviously perfectly reasonable to be concerned about. But you can't do anything about the rest so leave them to stew in their own pit of hatred and try to have as little to do with it and spend as little time thinking about it as possible.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 10:28:43

I know, it does help to vent though!! I do wish I could put it out of my head but I just can't at the moment, early days I guess. It's only been 5 months and I am grieving I guess. I am hoping counselling will help me come to terms and help me deal with my own anger about the whole situation. Thank you for your sound advice :-)

Oh love. Am glad you feel on top of things financially and legally - make sure that remains the case. You are a lioness now, fighting to protect her cubs. Be merciless.

On the emotional front, as the survivor (just!) of two very messy divorces...I got some comfort, bizarrely, the worst the twats became. The same revelation of true colours that you seem to be suffering. Because it destroys any lingering nostalgia, love and sense that you should still be together. He's a nasty, nasty man, who's found a nasty, nasty woman and THANK GOD you're not with him, and free now to find someone who's the opposite. As I did. Eventually!

This WILL pass. And life will, maybe quickly, maybe slowly, but WILL get better smile.

Hemlock2013 Thu 20-Mar-14 11:15:24

God, I'm appalled at this. You must be in bits about the whole situation.

No advice other than what everyone has already said but keep going because this will end. And you will be far better off. X x

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 11:19:37

Stinkingbishop - thank you so much for your post. This is what I am hanging onto, that I deserve better than this. It just astounds me how you can be with somebody for so long and not know them at all. I know that he has cut off two previous relationships in the same mercenary manner, under much different circumstances (other parties being unfaithfully ironically!) so I don't know why I thought I would be any different. How naive I was! I need to stop loving him, I haven't yet, despite everything. He can't even look me in the same direction as me. I think she is very jealous and insecure to behave in such a way but she must know that this could happen to her one day! I do hope that I meet somebody new eventually. I do worry about the effects on my daughter, at 15 years old she has already said that this has taught her never to trust a man, she will never marry and never have children. He has no idea what he has done to the children, it's so sad. I take huge comfort in the constant reassurances from others who have been in the same boat, that things will one day be better! :-)

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 11:21:01

Hemlock2013 - thank you for your kind words and support, I can't tell you what this means to me!

iquitsugarnow Thu 20-Mar-14 16:18:39

I hope you're feeling a little better now MrsC. It's easy for people to tell you not to get worked up and move on but you're not a robot, feelings are feelings, and that's how you're feeling right now. You need to work through that in your own time. They are your feelings and it's not for anyone to tell you that they're right or wrong.

It's great that you're feeling better from posting here. You'll come through this.x

RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 20-Mar-14 17:05:27

Hi there

We've moved this to Relationships now at the OP's request.

Hope things start to look up for you soon, MrsC1969HJ

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 17:12:38

iquitsugarnow - thank you, indeed it is very difficult. I am still very much in the grieving stage and I know that will pass with time.

Have had a difficult afternoon, husband has asked if he and his mistress can take son away in June for a week. I have said no which has caused all sorts of issues, but he's too young, doesn't cope at all with even a small change in routine and while I am still on the receiving end of all this crap from them, I don't trust them with my son. I have kept my response to him very businesslike and explained my reasons but of course he can't understand reason or rather doesn't want to face up to what he's done so all I have had is more rubbish about being an unfit mother, how can I look in the mirror and call myself a mum!! It's laughable actually given what he's done. He said I was a very bitter woman. What a prick!! :-D

LavenderGreen14 Thu 20-Mar-14 17:29:01

OP - I have received similar abuse from the OW - I have changed my email address, changed mobile numbers, made facebook and twitter private, keep copies/screenshots of anything she sends you and take it straight to the police. Do not respond ever, do not badmouth her to anyone - it just gives them more ammunition.

iquitsugarnow Thu 20-Mar-14 18:17:37

I absolutely agree that you should not allow them to take your son on holiday. Well done for standing up to them! Ignore the nastiness and continue to remain businesslike, give your answer then refuse to engage further.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 18:52:47

LavenderGreen14 - Have you?! Why is she abusing you, is it a similar situation and do you have children involved? I am desperate to hear how others cope with this. I have kept everything, I haven't made an official complaint to the police but I did have to pass it all on to her family liaison officer after she made a ridiculous baseless complaint about me. I keep everything else private. In a way, I am happy for her to dig her own grave. I still can't believe the cheek of them asking to take my son away, actually unbelievable!

iquitsugarnow - I think my reasons are valid but he thinks I am being spiteful. I did seek the opinions of a couple of friends and his own mother before I replied, all agreed with me. It is funny, he has gone on and on in further emails complaining about my fitness as a mother, going on about my son having a voice one day (which will sadly be directed at him no doubt when he realises what a dick his father is) and then the best laugh of all was telling me he wasn't taking any more work on (he's got a building company) and when he ran out of money, the OW would be paying my maintenance!! What sort of man says that?! No self respect at all. I wonder how long she'll want to keep bankrolling him! No wonder he tells people and I quote "I've fallen on my feet here"....things like this make me feel stronger actually!

somersethouse Thu 20-Mar-14 18:54:47

Dear OP, I am absolutely horrified for you and moved to post to lend support.

If it is any consulation, this relationship will clearly not work. It is destined for total disaster. I can only think your husband had some sort of mental breakdown to behave as he has, so quickly and in such a manner with the most unsuitable and unattractive proposition he could find. So bloody mad. Dreadful for you and of course both your children. To cut everything off like financially that must have made your blood run cold and made you panic.

But, that is beside the point, you are doing so well in the face of extreme adversity and should be extremely proud. I have recently separated from my husband and we have a 5 year old DD, I know exactly how you feel with regards to contact, the childs feelings, it is just a dreadful emotional rollercaoster. You feel utterly powerless, but you are not, as others have said you can concentrate on what you are able to control as you are indeed doing. I am lucky as my husband is being reasonable. My heart goes out to you.

Stay strong Mrsc1969 thinking of you and sending strength.

somersethouse Thu 20-Mar-14 18:57:59

I bet they knew you would say 'no' to the holiday for the very valid reasons you have done. They had no intention or desire to take your son on holiday for a week I am sure, they did it to get to you.

Your son will always be your weak point and they know it.

What a pair of scumbags!

I don't even know what to say to you. I'm speechless at their callousness and fuckwittery!

Keep doing what you're doing, stay on top of things as best you can. I think counselling is an excellent idea.

They knew you wouldn't let your son go away. They're using it as a stick to beat you with.

They won't last, you know! That much ego is an enclosed space? Their heads will explode.

Nevergrowingup Thu 20-Mar-14 19:15:05

My goodness, what a torrent of abuse you are suffering. Take what you can of the advice others are giving you.

You don't need to be a whipping boy for their guilt. I never quite understand why those who leave a relationship spend their time abusing the person they have left?? It doesn't make sense. Aren't they meant to be loved-up?

Focus on your family group, your DS, your DD and yourself. You are at a sensitive time in your DS's life as it will pave the way for good support throughout their schooling. Don't let your Ex screw that up. If need be, use the law, use the professionals and if it is not in your Ds's best interest, your word becomes law.

LavenderGreen14 Thu 20-Mar-14 19:31:54

MrsC - I don't want to make this thread all about me as it is yours - but yep. I have been accused of all sorts, had junk mail and many other things. It has been hideous. Yes i have a child, my ex doesn't see her but apparently that is all my fault. If you want to PM me then please do so.

somersethouse Thu 20-Mar-14 19:38:37

Strength to you too Lavender

LavenderGreen14 Thu 20-Mar-14 19:43:30

Thanks Somerset thanks

Papaluigi Thu 20-Mar-14 19:43:46

I just read through and sadly can't offer any practical advice other than what some have already said. I probably sound a bit of hippy, but what goes around comes around, maybe not anytime soon but these pair of arseholes will get theirs one day. Be strong, as you clearly are, for your kids, hang in there and it will, eventually all be okay.

CookieDoughKid Thu 20-Mar-14 20:24:29

Some practical advice. Can you get a second cheap mobile phone and use that for your friends and family? Set up an email filter to delete all email from this OW ( or archive instead).

And completely limit the contact with your ex by only turning your phone on once every few days or when YOU feel you can cope with it.

That way you'll feel more control.

Take some CBT. If it gets stressful. Breathe. Live in the moment. Next hour or next day is not going to change or hurt you because that moment you are are OK...

Divorce is a process that you'll have no choice but to work through but you have the power to fibro how it affects you. OK?

CookieDoughKid Thu 20-Mar-14 20:25:11

Control not fibro sorry!

MrsC1969HJ Thu 20-Mar-14 23:40:24

Oh my goodness, have come back to all these messages and have been moved to tears! Thank you all so much for such support, I feel like I've been given a giant hug!! Somersethouse thank you so much, it has been awful and I am glad that your husband is at least showing you some respect, my heart goes out to you, I know how painful it is. I agree that this relationship is so based on poison, I don't know where it will end up, but she appears desperate to keep him, she is much older, not attractive and he is young and very good looking, perfect boy toy material, they must look ridiculous together! Karma will deal with them in the end I would have thought. Waltermittymissus, thank you too, indeed I can imagine them telling everybody that I have just said "no" to the holiday rather than explaining that DS is a child with extra needs and doesn't cope with change very well, they choose to ignore the damage they have done to him or that he has just turned 3, difficult to explain and reason with. It's far too soon for anything like that. I loved your line about egos! Made me laugh out loud, you're so right! Nevergrowingup, thank you too, indeed I don't understand it either, it appears that this sort of behaviour is guilt related and common...they project their own ugliness onto you, the hurt spouse, in order to justify their position. I dread to think what my husband has told her about me, it's all about blame isn't it? They try to reflect it away from themselves. They are obsessed with my Facebook page, trying all sorts of ways to get into it, yet they would be sorely disappointed if they did, the one thing I haven't done is air my dirty laundry in public. Surely they should be cuddled up with eachother, not obsessing about me?! I will do all I can to protect my son :-). Papaluigi...I like the hippy vibe, I feel the same, Karma is very real and always gets you in the end. Actually, my husband looks dreadful at the moment, clearly it is getting to him somehow but that is her problem, thank you for your support! Finally CookieDoughKid, that's a good idea re : phone, I shall think on that and you are right, I do need to take control, one thing that has been very lacking lately! Thank you all so much...will have to wait and see what horrors tomorrow brings!

MrsC you sound like a brilliant mum and you're doing everything right! smile

Keep posting, there'll always be support here for you.

I'm glad he looks dreadful! Hopefully karma is playing havoc! flowers

Puddles1234 Fri 21-Mar-14 00:26:09

What has your solicitor said regarding your financial settlement from him? He surely cannot leave you with nothing?

I am no legal expert but there must be something that can be done in regards to the harassment you are experiencing? Especially if you have kept the countless stream of emails and texts?!

What has your solicitor said about you being sacked from your role within your husbands company?

Stand your ground and push for as much as you can get from your ex as he sounds like he is under the thumb of this woman. I know it's not all about money but you must protect yourself especially as you have given up your career. Normally housewives who have given up their careers are looked upon favourably by the courts hopefully this will be true in your case.

This situation you are in sounds like compete and utter hell. I wish you all the love and luck in the world with getting through this.

BigPawsBrown Fri 21-Mar-14 00:36:41

It's so hard when you come across forceful people like this as they make you feel like you are in the wrong when you aren't! take heart OP they sound like awful people. Have you considered counselling just to begin the process of moving on? This is one of the worst things I could imagine happening so i do appreciate it will take time...

Dirtybadger Fri 21-Mar-14 01:02:50

Are you pursuing the unfair dismissal? On what grounds did he sack you? It might be worth contacting another solicitor who deals with employment law to let them hear your case. I am not a lawyer but have assisted with a few employment tribunals (although from respondent rather than claimant perspective) and people have had strong cases on what appears to be much less. Granted you haven't given much information on this so I may be mistaken.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 21-Mar-14 01:06:20

Waltermittymissis - Thank you :-).

Puddles1234, thank you for your post. The situation is that we have had one mediation session where he got very angry and aggressive about the financial disclosure he has to make, even more so when he was told OW had to disclose too. He has tried to paint a picture of two financially disabled individuals but her businesses are successful and her husband was a high value public servant (a senior firefighter), tragically killed on the way to work (it's weird actually, as a side issue, her husband really disliked my husband, I do wonder why!), therefore I would have thought well provided for. He has now refused to return to mediation but my solicitor has made it quite clear to his that this is not avoidable, whichever way he tries it. He is up to all sorts, but I am a clever girl and have found out a lot! I am hanging onto the texts/emails, my solicitor has written to his about it. Regarding being sacked, that issue will be addressed at a later date, just on the backburner for now. Indeed, being left on state benefits when I have always been an earner is very difficult. I will make sure it is a temporary measure and I do know that the amount of tax I have paid over the years will more than compensate for the current pittance I receive. So basically it is all down to the Form E disclosure now and I will fight, believe me. I do think he is entirely under the thumb. He is not the brightest spark and I believe that she has encouraged him entirely with all of this, they should be utterly ashamed, the least he could have done was supported me until I got back on my feet. Paying a bit of maintenance every month (and complaining about it) does not really cut it! Thank you so much for your support!! *BigPawsBrown"...thank you, yes, I have just started counselling, I am hoping it will really help. She appears very controlling and he is very weak. I won't let them ruin my life although it feels like that right now :-(

MrsC1969HJ Fri 21-Mar-14 01:39:45

Dirtybadger Thank you for your post. He didn't give me any grounds, the first I knew about it was when I received my P45 from the accountants with a note of apology. He then sacked that accountancy firm and got a new one, probably so that I couldn't get hold of any accounts/paperwork! He immediately stopped my salary. I am able to get legal aid for this and it is something I will pursue as it was pretty disgusting and he knew what he was doing was wrong and would not discuss it. A bit later on his solicitor put in writing that I had "no role" within the company! I did all his admin and actually continued to produce invoices for him even after he left! It was outrageous! Talk about no moral compass!

AcrossthePond55 Fri 21-Mar-14 02:42:25

I really don't have much to add to the advice & support already offered. Just wanted you to know that things will get better. And there's a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that you have taken the 'high road' in this situation.

I agree with blocking OW's number from your phone & setting up an email filter that will send her emails directly to either a hold file or to the trash. As for H's emails, unfortunately I'm sure there are issues amongst the abuse that you have to respond to. If they are very upsetting to you, is there a 3rd party you would trust to 'screen and condense' the emails and just give you the pertinent parts for a response without you having to see the abuse?

I also agree that you should take all the emails to the police and/or your solicitor and see about getting a 'cease' and desist' order against the OW at least. She has absolutely NO reason to be contacting you, none whatsoever.

handfulofcottonbuds Fri 21-Mar-14 07:38:32

mrsc - my STBXH is living with his OW and he suddenly turned into a nasty, nasty stranger overnight too. It seems it's just what they do to absolve them of any guilt and perhaps make you hate them so it's easier in their mind to do what they're doing.

However, it is wrong, it hurts so much. It will pass though and it sounds like you are doing everything to focus on your son and what he needs, don't forget to think about what you need too.

I'm so sorry you're going through this and the continued cruelty is just disgusting. Remember, you don't deserve it at all and try and stay strong. You will come through this. You will get strength from your DS.

It doesn't really matter what the OW has been through, she is acting terribly!

FWIW, that text that your H sent to you that was intended for OW - I think he meant to send it to you. Most of them want to be found out but don't want to tell you. After all, when was the last time you sent a text of such importance to the wrong person? My STBXH did the same to me.


captainmummy Fri 21-Mar-14 08:18:49

Handfulofcottonbuds - I read the thread this morning and thought of your own thread right from the start! Was going to suggest OP read yours...
Op you sound stronger already. Your OP was a torrent of hurt and confusion - and you sound like you are taking control. It is the first step to your new life.

Who knows why they seem to enjoy kicking the 'abandoned' one when they've left - must be a vicious part of them, to make themselves feel better by kicking you. angry It might not seem like it, but it helps, becasue it (eventually) makes you angry, furious, tiger-mum, and that is a strength you can use.

handfulofcottonbuds Fri 21-Mar-14 08:33:17

Sadly, I thought the same thing captain.

Only thing I can say to mrsc is I (and many others on here) are living proof that you can and will get through this awful time.

If you did want to read my threads then the first one is under my whatnext074 name.

PoppyField Fri 21-Mar-14 12:04:51

Hi OP,

I'm appalled too. This is a disgusting excuse for a man, or a father. He's an utter tosser and she seems like a complete headcase. Don't let them bring you down to their level. You are worth so much more.

I would only add that I hope your solicitor is a rottweiler. It sounds like your STBXH is so obstructive, abusive and generally hostile you need someone to go in fast and hard on the financial settlemet. Don't hang around waiting for mediation to work etc. He will be obstructing endlessly. I bet he is outraged at having to disclose anything and will be trying to stonewall and stall at every stage. It is clear from your OP that he had a really head start on you with withdrawing finances and support - he had obviously plotted what punishments he was going to inflict on you and will have more up his sleeve.

Tell your solicitor that everything you now know about this man and how he has operated since your separation demonstrates that he will fight dirty - and has done from the start. Your lawyer needs to know that they need to be tough straight away. Most lawyers will be very reluctant to threaten to go to court early on, and will advise mediation etc. With hostile, aggressive oppostion this will NOT work - you will be the only one being reasonable and you will lose out. You are the one who knows him. Present your solicitor with a portrait of your H. Give them the tools. If there is any sign of messing about from him I would make sure your solicitor knows to bring out the big guns pretty quickly.

I started off being reasonable and trying to make the legal/financial side of things as civilised as possible. The STBXH has stalled and stonewalled and refused to disclose all the way along and it's taken three agonising years and a huge amount in lawyers fees to get this far. My solicitor said if I'd gone to court straight away it would have cost me a lot less and taken just a year. But at the start that would have looked expensive and unduly aggressive. Turned out I was wrong.

The lesson is, if he's not civilised, don't waste time and money trying to make it civilised. It won't be.

Good luck. He has declared himself your enemy. Treat him like one.

CookieDoughKid Fri 21-Mar-14 16:23:26

Your ex dh would have done his research in advance. He'd be worried about your claim on his pension and all his assets. Be factual about everything and don't feel bullied. Do get what's due to make sure your children maintain their current standard of living because he has a responsibility he cannot shy away from by law.

struggling100 Fri 21-Mar-14 16:41:42

OP, I feel for you I really do. Your post is full of rage and sadness and anxiety. I can almost feel it around me.

Trust me when I say that, from bitter personal experience, the only way to get through this is to make some division between the practical and the emotional sides of the situation, because that is the only way that it's possible to find space to deal with the pressing business matters that you need to handle. Your first priority needs to be to ensure that you get the best possible settlement out of this situation from your DP so that your children are properly provided for. He OWES you this and it needs to be your absolute top priority right now.

To achieve this, rage and irrational behaviour will not help. They will play into his hands, allowing him to represent you as a crazy lady who is potentially an unfit mother. It's the hardest thing in the world to do, but until you get his signature on that dotted line, you need to handle this with as much calmness and grace as you possibly can - at least externally! Do your research, make sure your solicitor is acting in your best possible interests, and whatever you do, don't act on that desire for revenge against the OW. Don't try to blacken her name around town, or get even in any other way - trust me when I say that, sadly, most people will not want to take sides, and will not understand the justice of your cause. Surround yourself with people who support and love you, and draw on their affection and care.

Secondly, you have every reason in the world to feel angry - every one! But please recognise that the only person that anger harms is you. I watched a friend of mine make herself direly ill with pent up rage after a partner left - he didn't give a damn, and she only succeeded in making her own life a bitter hell. It's far, far better to deal with those feelings with a counsellor, who can help you to explore them in a way that is safer for you.

Thirdly, document, document, document. Write down everything he does that is abusive or makes life difficult, and tell your solicitor. Include dates and times. Try to write it all down in as factual a way as you can, and avoid being overly emotional, however much you just want to swear at them on paper! Keep every shred of evidence that comes your way and make sure you have it all neatly filed and that your solicitor knows you have it.

IAmNotAMindReader Fri 21-Mar-14 17:07:48

Keep a dignified silence and let them hang themselves with their outrageous behaviour.
The less you react and just stick to facts the more desperate they will become to paint you as the aggressor and overstep their bounds,as it seems they are already doing. It may come to a point where you have to involve the police or a court order to get them to stop, but that's their problem really not yours.
Document everything as others have said it will be your saviour.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 21-Mar-14 19:41:17

Evening all, Friday and wine! That always puts a smile on my face! Thank you all for additional posts and advice, will be responding when I have my little one into bed in a few minutes :-)

MrsC1969HJ Fri 21-Mar-14 21:22:38

AcrossthePond55..thank you for your post. Fortunately, I haven't received any more emails from OW since I had to forward hers to her family liaison officer..I am pretty sure he told her to stop. My husband is a different matter, I just answer which bits I need to and try and keep calm. He is an idiot and I know that his rants are unhappiness and frustration so I just don't rise to it! goodness I have caught up on some of your theads....actually almost identical...while that gives me some comfort it is is shocking to know that there are other men out there who behave like this. I am working through your posts and I am so grateful for your kindness and advice, I am glad things are better for you now. I agree with your assertion about the "mistake" texting, it's happened since that first one and as our names are so wide apart on the alphabet, I can't imagine an actual mistake so I do agree with you! What makes me laugh is he calls her "babe". She looks like his nan. :-)

Captainmummy, thank you, no I don't understand it either, this awful behaviour towards the injured spouse but it is common apparently! I found a really interesting post about this and will put that up a little later as others might find it helpful.

Poppyfield..I totally hear you and am on it, as is my solicitor. It's a bit complicated but I am not a pushover and won't be! Thank you so much :-). I love that last line...amazing how a once happy marriage becomes a war...fools! Indeed, they picked on the wrong wife this time, and I am certainly not the first wife she has picked on...she will regret it, I will make sure of that!

Cookiedoughkid...absolutely, he does have a responsibility, his emails suggest otherwise, he is an idiot. They have tried to screw me over but I am one step ahead!

Struggling100..Thank you so much for your post, I would say that I am not full of rage, I am kind of past that point, certainly sad and anxious and thankfully I have maintained some dignity and have never allowed them to see me as a "crazed ex wife", they have painted that picture as it suits them to do so, but the written reality is very different. I don't react to her the way she wants me to, even though she goes on about my "rants", I have never ranted, it just makes her look the prick she is. While I have my moments with anger and outrage, I don't put it on paper, ever. Certainly early on, I was angry and upset at my husband and that comes across but it's just sad, not abusive, they can't say the same. I have done loads of research, I have information about them that they wouldn't have dreamed I would have looked up. It is strange actually, my husband knows I am educated and intelligent yet he continues to treat me like a complete idiot. He really should know better. I keep my cards close to my chest and will do until the time is right. I have kept and recorded everything, they have been so stupid, everything they do and say is in writing. I will not let this destroy me and your post is a timely reminder that I need to keep on my toes so thank you so much :-).

IAmNotAMindReader...that is what I am trying to do, thank you for your post! I have yet to take any "official" action but I will if I have to, with the full back up of HIS family, mine and all my friends. He really is treading on thin ice and continues to be smug but I am no pushover.

On the emotional side...I am REALLY struggling. I miss him. How can you miss such a complete arsehole, it's beyond me!! I am wondering how tomorrow is going to pan out, it is the 1st anniversary of her husband's death, my husband's access day with my DS. I hope that he keeps him away from any dancing on graves. Their guilt will eat them inside out I would have thought so get on with it.

Thank you again, EVERYBODY, you are AMAZING! :-) XX

MrsC1969HJ Fri 21-Mar-14 21:28:33

Found this while trying to find answers to my endless may be helpful for those who have been blamed as I have :

Blaming the Innocent Spouse

The forbidden couple has a tendency to cast blame on the innocent spouse(s) in order to throw off their own feelings of guilt. Sometimes they fight to keep the innocent one from getting any financial support and even may convince themselves that any children in the marriage are better off with them, the more fit parents (dad and step-mother). They play the game of making the innocent spouse the culprit, the blame for everything. Whatever the husband has told the mistress, she believes and uses it against the wife. They spend much time trying to convince friends and family that the innocent spouse caused the problems that led to their coupling. They are trying to paint a picture of innocence, but they know better than anyone that this picture is fabricated and can never be a masterpiece.

handfulofcottonbuds Fri 21-Mar-14 22:34:10

mrsc - I'm sorry, my posts are so long as I need a lot of support!

Your last post is so true, it's how they justify their terrible actions and remove themselves from the pain they have caused.

I have my moments (I'm having one today) but they are few and far between now thank goodness. You will get to a place where it isn't all consuming and you will smile again x

AcrossthePond55 Sat 22-Mar-14 01:02:16

To MrsC, Cottonbuds, & all the other women here who are or have been in this situation, I hope you are all sleeping peacefully and I hope you wake up to sunshine. It's early evening where I am so I am going to crack a bottle of wine and raise my glass(es) to you all. Here is my wish and hope that you all emerge triumphant and live lives full of joy.

To better days ahead, cheers wine!

MrsC1969HJ Sat 22-Mar-14 08:46:08

handfulofcottonbuds - your posts are amazingly helpful and give me some hope! I too have my moments, quite a lot of them. I guess we are both at about the same stage. I am definitely a lot better than I was 5 months ago but not anywhere near recovery yet. It will many who have come through this tell me that so we must hold onto that! I hope you have a fabulous day today :-).

*AcrossthePond55" Thanks so much! Hope you enjoyed your wine as much I enjoyed mine! :-)

handfulofcottonbuds Sat 22-Mar-14 10:44:21

Thank you mrsc and acrossthepond (think I had a bit too much wine last night though) smile

I have had amazing support on here and I'll always be thankful for that.

It sounds like they are both 'damaged'. Maybe he thinks he can save her and be her knight in shining armour in some twisted romantic way and that in itself is an attraction but it doesn't last as reality sets in. How long will the kisses and cuddles last?

He has given up everything to be with his OW, my STBXH did the same. However, if they live in isolation with each other then I believe that resentment, boredom and the realisation of what they have done will set in at some point.

Imagine them having an argument, the phrase, "I gave up everything to be with you" will probably be thrown about a lot!

Focus on you and your DCs and what you all need. Use your strength for concentrating on your future because that is what you can control.

I hope your counsellor helps you.

Someone said to me when I was really struggling that they believed I was the one who was going to have the happy ending. I hold onto that every day.

Sallycinnamum Sat 22-Mar-14 11:06:17

OP, I very rarely post on the relationships board but your post had me in tears.

A friend of mine had a sort of similar experience and in the end packed up and took the children half way across the country, ceased all contact unless it was to do with access and 2years on is in a much better place.

It can't even begin to imagine how horrific this is for you.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 22-Mar-14 16:51:32

handfulofcottonbuds...I most definitely had too much wine last night and did the unthinkable...emailing H with a picture of our newborn son saying "we were so happy then". He didn't reply. I know it would have got to him though (well at least I hope so). I know I shouldn't do that, I did a lot at the beginning but not lately. They are most definitely both damaged, I have actually posted about their situation in bereavement without adding in all the horror, I'd be interested in takes on how she has behaved since her husband died. My H picked up DS this morning and I did say to him that I hoped DS would not be subjected to anything related to her husband's anniversary today, he looked shocked, clearly didn't think I would know and just shook his head and said "no". How awkward it will be in that house tonight I would have thought.

My H is a very needy man, requires constant attention in an almost childlike fashion, he does have a lot of issues. However, that is unsustainable in the long term. All his relationships have been with single mothers, every single one apart from a teenage relationship. They've last a couple of years, one five years, me 14 years, I don't know why I thought I would be any different! I did hold back from living together and I did hold back with the "I love you's", he is so intense and full on. What I can't fathom is that he left his son yet has gone to yet another single mother and stepchild no 7. Even his own child wasn't enough to keep him so I am not sure why SHE thinks she will be different in the long term either. He has cut off every relationship in the same mercenary fashion and has never looked back. The problem here is that he can't do that with me because of DS and that is a psychological nightmare for him. She will equally hate it because he has to keep seeing me and hence this is why I think they keep going on about getting custody of my son so they really can cut me out. They are totally fucked up, the pair of them! I totally agree, the "gave up everything" line will be used a lot! Funny, he couldn't cope with me going through an early menopause, yet he gets together with somebody old enough to be on the cusp of that...hence he will have to deal with that all over again. Just odd, it really is.

I do believe that we will have the better life, totally, we both deserve better and know that our consciences are clear! :-)

MrsC1969HJ Sat 22-Mar-14 16:53:38

...and as an aside from that, she called me a "headcase, a fucked up horrible, nasty no-mark"...but talk about reflecting yourself in the abuse of others!

MrsC1969HJ Sat 22-Mar-14 16:54:52

Sallycinnamum...Oh bless you, I am sorry! I have to say, I am considering taking the route of your friend, not straight away, but it is something I am giving a great deal of thought to. It might come to that in the end. I just need to get myself together first! Thanks again :-)

MrsC1969HJ Mon 24-Mar-14 00:03:41

Arghh, have had a real struggle today. Who would have thought a trip to Homebase would make you feel so sad?! It's laughable really, but all those families and there's me struggling with the buggy and my bare ring finger. Such stupid things set you off. Tomorrow is the start of a new week...let it be a better one!

handfulofcottonbuds Mon 24-Mar-14 01:08:16

mrsc - I'm sorry to hear you had it tough today. Sometimes I still find that hard too, especially DIY stores as we were there every weekend for another of his never ending 'projects'!

I found that most people don't even look at your ring finger, look at Prince William, he hasn't worn one from the start.

I used to find it really hard going round supermarkets with all the couples but now I think that I'm not missing out as most of them look miserable anyway as they buy the same old stuff each week and have their boring routines. At least that's how I deal with it anyway.

On the emailing thing, it's fine to do that - once. Try as hard as you can not to do it again as you will be waiting for the reply that never comes and when it doesn't, you'll be wondering whether it's 'got to him'. The best way is to not contact him with reminders of good times etc. Sadly, he doesn't care about your feelings, if he did he wouldn't have betrayed you.

I hope that this week will be better for you.

Just remember, you can always vent on here and get some great advice thanks

MrsC1969HJ Mon 24-Mar-14 09:28:56

Handfulofcottonbuds...thank you. That is very true about DIY stores and supermarkets! I will do all of that rubbish in the week now and avoid weekends, that should make it easier :-).

Oh I've done loads of emailing in the past, especially before I found out about OW. I have found with my H that he doesn't respond anyway and I try very hard not to do it and succeed 99% of the time. Of course he doesn't care about my feelings, he's made that plain quite clear. The last text I got from him told me "grow up and understand that OW has shown me more love in the last 5 months than you have in 14 years, move on". This is nonsense obviously, a way to justify what he's done. Well let's hope she continues because that is one screwed up mess they are living in.

Here's to a better week...fingers, toes and everything crossed. I hope you're OK, how are things with you? What's going on with your ex and his OW?

handfulofcottonbuds Mon 24-Mar-14 22:29:06

How are you doing tonight mrsc?

Try to do no more texts or emails, if you feel tempted then post here. By texting him it will only cause you more pain.

It's best not to try and unravel the whys and wherefores either, you will never truly know. Best thing to do is look after yourself.

Hope you're okay.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 24-Mar-14 22:55:19

Handfulofcottonbuds...not so great tonight, have heard a rumour of him wanting to get married again. Oh my God really?! Insists this has only been going on for 5 months. Surely not? I thought that her widow's pension would prevent remarriage but maybe not. I haven't contacted him at all but will see him Weds for access. I have had a letter from his solicitor today where he has once again changed his mind about attending mediation. Last week they said he wouldn't. Apparently he is now "anxious" to tie everything up. Well he would be wouldn't he? The year after her husband's death is up, he can get rid of me and they can have a big makes me feel sick :-(

MrsC1969HJ Mon 24-Mar-14 23:24:38

Ladies (and gents if there are any posting!), I am after some honest opinions...I have already discussed this at length with another Mumsnetter and decided to post as it makes my thread more honest and true to my thoughts! I really want to have a meeting with the OW. I am perfectly capable of being calm and controlled but I really really NEED to be able to stand in front of her and discuss things. She did indeed offer to meet me early on, in fact offered "support" (!) and I have recently suggested it to my husband who went completely nuts and said "no way". I think, no, I know, that this is because he has not been truthful about a lot of things and obviously he needs to be painting a picture of how wonderful he is and how awful and unreasonable I am. I do not want a meeting to slag him off, far from it, I know that it would never get me anywhere and actually I would get more satisfaction from her finding out herself, but I would like to ask her if she could perhaps put herself in my shoes for a while, think about the effects of their behaviour on my son (and my daughter who she has so readily dismissed as "not their concern") and indeed acknowledge the fallout from her choices. I would like her to tell me to my face that her decision to have an affair with my husband is my "fault". I have discussed with a few friends who have been in similar positions and it's been 50/50. One friend did this very successfully and it really helped her and she felt that she had regained some control over her life and the situation. I was going to suggest that she took a friend and that I did the same, not to speak, but just to ensure that there are no "misunderstandings". I am not sure how she will react, it's not as if I don't know her, I am not a stranger to her and prior to her getting shitty with me, we had reasonable email contact. However, she was lying through her teeth at the time. So, am I completely mad? I feel compelled to do this but would really like some honest contributions about whether this is an absolutely ridiculous idea or not. Surely we have to face eachother at some point, now would be a good time for me...

AcrossthePond55 Mon 24-Mar-14 23:56:46

IMHO, I don't really think there's a point. She won't be honest about anything and she won't really hear what you are saying, iykwim. If you think you'll feel better in just saying it out loud to her face, then fine, I guess. But you can't hold any expectations of apologies, sympathy, honesty, change in behaviour, or reconciliation of any kind. And you need to expect lies, verbal attacks, nasty facial expressions, stony silence, and for her to lie & distort the conversation to your H when she tells him about it. And he will believe her version, regardless of the number of witnesses (friends) who will swear that what she is telling him was a 'misunderstanding' & not what you said at all.

If you can accept all that & still want to confront her face to face, go ahead. But don't say I didn't warn you!

MrsC1969HJ Tue 25-Mar-14 00:06:55

AcrossthePond55...exactly what I am expecting...I think she will be all defensive, she has that kind of attitude anyway, I am fine with that, but she can do it to my face and not with shitty emails. I am not a confrontational person actually, although I will stand up for myself, but I believe I can remain calm and rational. Thank you for your excellent advice...I consider myself warned...and will think on :-)

SnookyPooky Tue 25-Mar-14 07:49:49

Just read the whole thread, what a pair of twats.
Please, for your own sanity do not meet with this woman. It's not going to help and you have come so far in a short time in horrific circumstances. You have the moral high ground, stay dignified.

mistlethrush Tue 25-Mar-14 09:44:31

I wouldn't meet her - whilst you might feel that you might get a degree of closure on some aspects I think that it will give her further opportunities to know where to hit to make it hurt most, and you will not get any truths from her - and she won't listen to you either.

mrstigs Tue 25-Mar-14 12:02:45

Hi. I don't have any advice for you really, just wanted to say I've just read your thread for the first time and I'm struck by how strong you are. Your husband had behaved appallingly, and I'm sure one day he will realise what a bastard he has been. And even if he stays in denial forever you will still move on and leave him in the dust where he belongs. I'm rooting for you over here. smile

Ps, personally I'd say that asking to meet her would just allow the deluded idiots to feed their 'psycho aggressive ex who can't move on' fantasy, and you have no chance of making people that invested in making you the bad guy feel any guilt or acceptance of what they did. But I've not been in your position so that's just a gut feeling as an outsider. Just make sure if you do its entirely for your benefit and not to try and make them feel anything. You can only succeed in targets you set for yourself, try and force expectations on others and you are set to fail. Step carefully.

CookieDoughKid Tue 25-Mar-14 13:35:23

You need to detangle what you want from meeting her vs what is realistically going to happen and achieve.

What's in it for the OW to meet you first of all? And why do you think the OW is going to want to LISTEN and comprehend anything you are saying? What's so compelling for her to listen to you given that she has 'got' your man? Does she give 2 shits about you? No.

Given the above, I think your efforts are going to be wasted.

Their entire relationship is based on lies and seeded through a devious scam. Their entire relationship is now nothing to do with you. Other than it's relationship to you via your son and your divorce.

Painful as it is, clearly your husband doesn't really give a f*ck about you or your son any longer. My only guidance would be to begin to live your life and mend the pieces. I actually bet you can move on far quicker than you think. You'll look back and think thank god you got out when you did rather than waste another moment on the f*cker.

Excuse the French but everything they are doing is just bullshit and paying lipservice. Fight your corner, fight for your son and fight to live a good life that doesn't needlessy involve them any more. Keen the shit out your door is what I say and let your lawyer defend you.

CookieDoughKid Tue 25-Mar-14 13:42:37

FYI - I have a good friend who's 20 year marriage went down the pipe after he decided not to forgive his wife from her second affair. Despite evidence, despite MEETING the other man, despite their divorce being granted on the grounds of adultery and legally recognised IN COURT his wife HAD AN AFFAIR. The stupid wife till this day will not FULLY acknowledge she had an affair and continuously puts blame on my friend for their marriage breakdown. I can vouch he was a kind man, and no alledged wife beating behind closed doors. I'm not in any way able to comment on their state of marriage but I am able to comment on her denial - which is the point I want to put here.

I mean, for FS, how much denial do you have to be when 20 years of my friend's marriage is down the toilet, the large marital home is now sold, for tiny apartments and their 4 kids have suffered. And she is STILL in denial.

So I'm saying, really, what are you going to get out of this when I think the chances of the OW and your ex being in denial is really high.

BrokenDownstairs Tue 25-Mar-14 14:42:11

I am not at all wise or experienced but I had to post as this is one of the worst stories I have read in a long time. Just wanted to wish you well and say you sound like an amazing mother. Listen to the wise words you hear here and I pray he gets what he deserves xx

Pudtat Tue 25-Mar-14 19:56:50

Fwiw I don't think meeting would give you closure. I think you are still tangled up in the emotions of 'loving him' - and I think you need to think about that, you love what you (thought you) had, but if he turned around tomorrow and said it's all been a mistake would you take him back? Didn't think so. So you need to acknowledge what and who he is now. She is nothing to you, it doesn't matter whether she's 'moved on too quick' and rebounding from her husbands death, old and menopausal or the ultimate cougar, the only reason you have to give a shiny sh*t about her is because she has contact with your son. Would meeting her really be only about that? Saying anything which might make you feel better plays into their hands as others have said and saying anything else is pretty much pointless as she won't listen to a word you say.

Focus on now. Who he is now. Who you are now and can be in future. Fight for what you're owed for you and your son and make a life much better.

People can't make you feel anything. You decide how you react to them. Don't give her any more headspace.

wine But not too much!

FushandChups Tue 25-Mar-14 21:37:10

I totally get it but please don't meet with the OW.

Cheesy but true:
Your Ex is the one who wrecked your relationship and yes, she should know better and yes, she has turned into a completely horrific person towards you for no good reason but it is HIM that deserves all your ire, HIM whose behaviour is lower than low and HIM that should be the one giving you the answers you crave (not that he will)..

Its taken me a while to get to this point myself but she is irrelevant in the big scheme of things really - if he had been halfway decent in the first place, you wouldn't be where you are and whilst he is professing her to be the love of his life, best thing ever, destiny (boak), his past pretty much proves that its any port in a storm and she could be anyone.

That probably comes over very harsh as you obviously have a past together, but blaming her for his behaviour is not healthy really.

Big hugs though - he sounds like a complete cunt thanks

oldgrandmama Wed 26-Mar-14 19:13:08

Please, DON'T MEET HER! I've sent you another PM.

Bogeyface Wed 26-Mar-14 19:49:54

This woman has already harassed you and clearly has repainted history in order to justify what she and he have done. Meeting you will just give her more ammunition and will probably make things worse.

You can not control anything that either of them do, and you would be foolish to try. I know that it is natural to want to try and sort things out, but you are coming at this from the POV of a normal person, she is fucked up so anything you say will be deliberately twisted to fit their agenda.

Save yourself from yet more hurt, please dont meet her.

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 26-Mar-14 21:50:53

oldgrandmama always talks a lot of sense mrsc.

Hope you're okay today, you're doing so well, please use that strength for yourself.

springydaffs Wed 26-Mar-14 23:13:54

Lovely, I am appalled that you are considering meeting her. she is as ignorant as fuck, a hag. Why would you want to meet her?

yy I get it that you want to appeal to her 'better nature' - but, please, SHE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. she has behaved unbelievably badly all round, why do you expect her to change? She won't change, she has far too much invested in keeping things as they are, or worse: you do realise that slagging you off and painting you as the hag is the fuel in this hideous 'relationship'? She has absolutely no intention of climbing down or being decent in any shape or form.

So to talk to her is to walk right into the mouth of a lion. She has fully advertised exactly what she is and what she's up to - please listen to her and step far, far away.

DON'T read her emails. You know what's going to be in them, don't read them, or you'll be feeding on toxic shit - why would you want a diet of that? DON'T talk to her - or talk to him, for that matter. Why are you still in dialogue, or intereracting, with this heinous man? Cut all contact except what is absolutely necessary (ie legal) - and even then keep it as monosyllabic as possible. They are feeding off your distress, cut their supply.

They are sick, sick people. Keep away from them. Go no contact as of immediately. It's the only way to sanity. You have to be as steady as possible for your kids - feeding on this radioactive poison is not going to be healthy for you, which won't be healthy for them.

I appreciate you have a lot of practicalities to sort out and that contact of a sort is, unfortunately, necessary - but find a way to do it while leaving your heart and emotions firmly elsewhere. You have the tremendous gift [iyswim!] of their open and public abuse: there it is in black and white, no question, no grey areas, no possible alternative interpretation, pure abuse. In many ways you are 'lucky' that it is all so clearly spelt out - most abusers are subtle and slip about like mercury. Not your dolt of an ex! And his hag of a hook-up.

I feel for you, don't think I don't. What you have gone through is savage beyond belief - but do everything you can to STOP it right now, or to minimise it to the best of your ability, by cutting them off immediately and allowing the appropriate channels and process do their work in the fullness of time.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 26-Mar-14 23:18:31

Everybody, I have been up to my neck in it and just wanted to say a HUGE thank you for all the posts which I intend to respond to in the next day or two. I cannot tell you what it means to me (and that includes inbox messages of huge support). Thank you all so much. Springdaffs...that was an amazing post, thank you. You're all marvellous :-) x

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 26-Mar-14 23:33:06

springy has helped me so much too.

mrsc - there are lots of people here to support you. Hope this week is getting a little better for you x

AcrossthePond55 Thu 27-Mar-14 02:58:19

Wow, Mrs C, Springdaffs has absolutely nailed it!

I'm relatively new to MN, and it amazes me how much wisdom there is here!

LavenderGreen14 Thu 27-Mar-14 07:01:10

I agree wholeheartedly with Springdaffs - totally on the money.

oldgrandmama Thu 27-Mar-14 15:37:59

Just read the springydaffs post. She has absolutely said it ALL. There is absolutely NO BLOODY BENEFIT for you meeting the OP hag. She and your ex will just lie, twist, and generally try to make you look bad afterwards, when they report back to their friends. DON'T DO IT.

They've more than proved what a pair of horrible, nasty, twisted and totally conscience-free turds they are. Don't give them any more things to lie and twist and use against you. Because they will, if you meet them.

Personally, I can't image how a 'man', who was with you, fathered a child with you, can act like he is acting now. Be understandable to say 'oh well, maybe he's having a brain-storm, or something ...' I fear not, though. He was probably like that all along, but hid it well. Then the hag got her claws into him, used lies to entangle him ... happened to me, with my 'best friend' using our deep friendship (I thought) to turn him against me with blatant lies about things I'd never said!, dripping poison in his ear. The sorry sod fell for it all. And boy, does he regret it now (married to her!)

Have no fear, OP, karma will get him, and her. It always does. I've told you how in my PMs.

ajandjjmum Thu 27-Mar-14 16:31:28

Awful situation MrsC - just wanted to say that the way you handle this will have a huge impact on your DD, as she is mature enough to see what is going on. Be careful for her as well as yourself - and in thinking through things carefully to protect her, it might just give you some strength to handle things in the best way for you! Sorry - that doesn't really make sense, but I hope you know what I mean. thanks

You're a strong woman and you will get through this.

What a pair of bastards.

OurMiracle1106 Thu 27-Mar-14 16:44:15

I would personally email her and ask her to please stop contacting you state you wish to have no further contact with her. And when she emails again tell her next time she does you will seek legal advice (phone 101 and ask the police to stop her. They can and will with an harrassment order I was forced to get one on my exh)

If she brings up your son simply message saying you arent prepared to discuss with her your child

springydaffs Fri 28-Mar-14 00:33:14

I wouldn't. Email, that is. and even if I did, I definitely wouldn't be saying please, or wish - both show emotion, both sound pleading.

Practise statements (this is for when you have to speak, which, hopefully, will be very rarely) - take out all words that have any emotion in them. Be not nice, not nasty - like a robot. Show no emotion at all. (i appreciate this is tremendously hard to do but practise makes perfect).

To stop the terrible cycle of them gloating over your pain, withdraw any and every emotion from the dynamic - the dynamic will collapse. They will kick up big time, so prepare yourself, but don't cave, keep up the withdrawal of all emotion = no contact unless absolutely necessary. eg outlining practicalities: 'the appointment at the contact centre is 3pm and you are required to attend'. Say nothing more, resist adding anything on or attempting to appeal to their 'humanity'. They are not your friends, they are your deepest enemies and have made that abundantly clear.

Sometimes the war is so deadly that normal rules don't apply. They are trying to destroy you, every part of you: the memory of you, your place as a mother, your mind. So forget being decent, kindly, humane - all that has long gone. Get some steel in your soul. Do it for your kids if you find it hard to do it for yourself.

TheShimmeringPussycat Fri 28-Mar-14 03:34:46

'please' and 'wish' sound like polite formal language to me, in the context given by miracle - not pleading..
eg I would like a refund, please. I wish to make a complaint.

handfulofcottonbuds Fri 28-Mar-14 07:15:51

mrsc - how are you doing?

Have you decided what you will do yet?

When I talked to my stbxh with emotion, he was even more nasty to me and detached and hurt me even more. He responded by saying things like, "I'll talk to you when you're stronger". He also had the cheek to say, "this will get easier for you". He had no right to tell me that when he was the one causing pain.

I suppose what I'm saying is that once I removed the emotion, he crumbled, he didn't have a clue how I was feeling then and it really got to him. I had removed his power over me and he no longer got the upper hand. In turn, it gave me strength.

I agree, you cannot reason with them, they don't have a better nature like we do, they have proved that in the most deceitful way. Remove your emotion and be matter of fact, it will work better and it will make you stronger.

A friend of mine said I need to deal with this whole situation like I would if it was a project at work. Be firm, be factual and be detached.

I hope you have something lovely planned for this Sunday thanks

springydaffs Fri 28-Mar-14 11:31:27

And when you're making statements, try not to do in a superior tone, which would suggest you are being combative, competing: 'this is my new weapon, I'm being cold see what you think of that then '. Just be completely flat.

I apologise for being prescriptive: this situation is dire - 'desperate' as you say in your title - and is becoming established, entrenched. If you don't do something to alter the dynamic, this will continue, get worse (if that is even possible). They are on a roll and you have to alter the dynamic to stop it.

izziewizzie Fri 28-Mar-14 14:13:54

Please don't try and see the OW.
I don't often post in relationships, but my ex left me after an affair. He was awful to me leading up to it, but his behaviour after beggars belief.
He attempted systematically to destroy me financially. I was caring for our 16 month dd who had some special needs, and was barely working due to this, he stopped paying the mortgage and bills the minute he left, despite promising he would. When the bank rang to say that the bills had come out and no money had gone in, I spoke to him and he assured me he was about to put the money in.
A few days later I remember him sniggering on the phone as he told me he "never had any intention of putting any money in" that half the overdraft was mine now, and maybe that would teach me a lesson.
He then two months later remembered a row we had before he left, decided he was suddenly scared after that row, and sent the police to the house.....
He moved straight in with the OW, having refused to leave for two months, yet putting boxes of chocolates he had bought for her in the fridge.....
I had no contact with her, and fuck knows I wanted to, I wanted to know why, how she could justify it, how she could have her children round him when he had stopped any help for his own child (CSA also stopped within weeks) and no matter how much I pretended otherwise, I would have gone berserk had I met her.

I'm not telling you this to hijack. I'm telling you because time is a great healer, and with it comes some sort of clarity of the situation.

My exs girlfriend may have had the morals of a dog in heat, but it was my ex who cheated. She couldn't have taken him if he didn't want to go. She couldn't make him treat me properly, and likewise she was not responsible for the fact he abandoned his own child.

My ex did all of that all by himself, because he was a cunt, and he wanted to tbh. It was easy to blame her, because his character just flipped one day, and I wanted to believe this woman had caused it. But she didn't. She may not have helped, but no one made my ex do anything he didn't want to.
She owed me nothing.

That is very hard to accept. But I also believe that water finds it own level, and those two deserve each other frankly.

Please don't meet her. It won't go how you want, and you may well find the police on your door after they have twisted what you said. You may think you will be strong and polite, but you are walking into a lions den, you will get upset, and she will wreck your confidence further.

Five years on I am married and I have another baby, something I never thought would happen for me.

You can and will come out the other side, but you need to not play into their hands, hard as it is x

MiscellaneousAssortment Fri 28-Mar-14 15:30:28

Please don't meet her, or even ask to. Every communication you have with them is being used against you. Every tiny bit. The only way you get control is to stop engaging with them and stop showing your hurt.

I know it's hard, really really hard. But nothing good will come of letting them build this story of a mad stalker lady.

keely79 Fri 28-Mar-14 15:55:56

Wow. Don't really have much to add but thanks and wine. If I were you (and I hope I am never in that position) I would leave them to stew in their own bile - minimise contact to the bare essentials and get on with your own life. If they call, let it go to voicemail. Don't read their email messages. Disconnect.

riskit4abiskit Sat 29-Mar-14 18:23:01

So sorry you are going through this. Am I right in thinking his family support you? If so this says a lot.

It sounds to me as if ow and exh are not very happy at all (or else they would be loved up instead of spewing poison at you). Take some comfort from that.

I feel sorry for the family of ow dead husband too, imagine you loved relative being replaced so easily and quickly.

Op you sound clever and way more dignified than I would be in your situation. Please continue to fight for what is right for you and your ds.

deakymom Sat 29-Mar-14 22:09:07

how appalling whatever you do dont reply to any more abuse messages from her legally he is still your husband and to be honest i would get arsey and tell them if they continue to threaten you and your child you WONT sign the divorce papers

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 09:35:26

Hello everybody, I am sorry it has taken me so long to return to the thread, I've had a lot on. I am SO grateful for all the advice and amazing posts and it appears that the result is unanimous so I will leave well alone for now. I have kept contact to the bare minimum as advised, indeed this morning I have had to email him as DS has a hospital appt on Wednesday that clashes with access. I just stated that in the email, said I could offer tomorrow at such and such a time as an alternative. Ended it with "could you confirm". Hope that is the sort of thing I should be doing! He really messed me about with access last week so I am expecting more of the same, I shall just ignore. On Saturday he turned up in one of her business sign written cars, he does love to rub my nose in it, there was no exchange of words, son was happy to run out to his Dad. On return he just chucked DS's coat and bag at me and walked off with a smirk on his face. Why?! I don't understand it at all. It really grates on me that I am the innocent one here but am treated so badly by him. So, he didn't bother with getting anything for son for mother's day, that quite upset me and the irony was astonishing. He used to get very angry with my daughter's father because he did the same and used to say "he should do that stuff with her for you, it's just wrong", yet here he is doing the same. I shall ensure that when father's day comes round, my son will have a gift and card for him. I will rise above it but it did really hurt me and you can bet the OW was lavished! This weekend has been a struggle actually, I resisted all the overwhelming urges to make contact and I find mother's day particularly tough because my my mum is dead and I miss her so much. Izziewizzie, your post rang so many bells for me, the situation sounding so similar to mine. I take great comfort in that. I know it will get better, but by God, nearly 6 months down the line, I am still finding this so so hard to come to terms with!

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 09:39:56

riskit4abiskit...sorry I should have said, yes have 100% support from STBXH's family...they are amazing. In fact I had quite a long chat with his step-sister last night, disgusted doesn't quite touch it. I am very lucky in this respect. He is totally isolated, will have to create new friends and family via OW as he has lost everybody else. I wonder how long it will be until they see his true colours. I hadn't realised how universally disliked he was by so many people, it has really shocked me. Maybe you don't when you love somebody. I am currently building myself up to go back to mediation, am not rushing it, I believe it will reveal and much longer affair and I will need to prepare myself for that. God knows where this is going to go next....! Oh and apparently she is "building a case of harassment" against me. I'd love to know how! STBXH says he's "not getting involved" while laughing at me. What a pair of pricks!!

Thetallesttower Mon 31-Mar-14 10:42:21

You are doing exactly the right think, no communication with her whatsoever (it will be very disappointing for her when she can't bring a harassment case as you have no contact with her) and only professional business like communication about access and parenting with him. Imagine every single thing you do is on video or going to be sent to the solicitor- and just behave very neutrally and very nicely. As you are doing!

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 10:59:50

Thanks Thetallesttower...yes you're right. The thing is, he does indeed send everything to his solicitor, it's actually laughable. He "has to" to "protect himself" and can't understand why he was getting £700 a week bills for it! He is on solicitor number 5 now...! I am trying to impart "detached and emotionless"....harder than you think! :-/

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 11:17:14

Oh my God, what a pain in the arse. Now wants to attend hospital appointment with DS on Wednesday. He has shown NO INTEREST whatsoever in anything to do with him. We've been through hearing tests, opthalmology, epilepsy tests, you name it. Nothing, no interest at all, especially with anything to do with statementing. Suddenly he wants to come. Arrgggghhhhhh!

mistlethrush Mon 31-Mar-14 11:18:57

Don't make a big deal about it - simply tell him the time and date and location and say you'll be there.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 11:29:27

I have, but I don't want him to come, it'll make it worse for DS who will be upset when his father goes off to his "new" car and drives off. He's just doing it for show, nothing more. I have to insert drops in DS's eyes before appointment which will hurt as they dilate his pupils. He's going to be distressed enough as it is. What an absolute twat he is. I am so cross!

mistlethrush Mon 31-Mar-14 11:45:04

I don't remember that the drops hurt - as long as you stayed out of bright light at least.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 11:50:03

Oh OK, they told me they would....really not looking forward to it. Washing his hair is an ordeal enough as he can't bear his head being touched...this is going to be fun :-/

mistlethrush Mon 31-Mar-14 12:03:08

If they told you they would they might then - I would make sure that you have plenty of chocolate available to stuff in his mouth to help - this worked with eardrops for DS.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 12:27:55

I will! He has the loudest scream of any child I know, this is not going to be pleasant :-(

mistlethrush Mon 31-Mar-14 12:32:00

It's difficult to scream when you're eating chocolate wink

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 17:13:52

Ha ha you are indeed right mistlethrush. I have given him information for hospital and after speaking with MIL, who told me in no uncertain terms to just grin and bear it as it will come back on me, not him, I know I will just have to deal with it. The probability is that he will suddenly get a "call out" or something as he knows I have got a friend coming with me, somebody he has tried to avoid through all of this. Still he might surprise me. I just don't understand this sudden interest. He has behaved like a sperm donor, nothing more, throughout all of this.

growingolddicustingly Mon 31-Mar-14 17:22:38

I expect it is because he thought you would say no to him so he could add it to the imaginary list of your unreasonable behaviour. I bet he is furious that you have called his bluff.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 18:51:39

growingolddisgustingly....I think you're right, I will just remain whiter than white! :-)

handfulofcottonbuds Mon 31-Mar-14 19:15:54

mrsc - one thing I always have had in the front of my mind over the past 7 months is maintain your dignity at all times.

I only let it slip once where my stbxh was concerned and I pierced little holes in his precious cycling shorts.

As long as you keep by that rule and vent on here, you will be okay and he will not be able to throw anything back at you.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 22:34:41

handfulofcottonbuds...I did laugh at the cycling shorts! I put my H's designer cufflinks on e-bay...and he bought them!!! Ha ha!

However, I did completely lose my dignity at the beginning and am especially embarrassed about the begging texts and emails, apologising for existing, even ones referring to sex that I sent when I had no idea he was living with the OW and was under the impression he was "homeless and sleeping in his van". Gosh, how they must have chortled! I won't make that mistake again I have to tell you. She has already used this against me once..stating it is "proof" that I was responsible for the breakdown of my marriage (blame game again!).

He is just beginning to disgust me now, and all this with the hospital is just a joke. All designed for "show". The thing is, he is going to look such a cock, he has no idea what is going on, what it's for, hasn't even asked! What do I say to the Consultant, "here's DS's sperm donor, can you go through the last six months of appointments with him first"....I do suspect there is something behind this, have my suspicions but will wait and see.

So, another day, another dollar! :-/

AcrossthePond55 Mon 31-Mar-14 23:37:54

I think the sudden attention to your DS is so he will look like a 'devoted father' to the courts. Why else would he bother? Could this affect visitation &/or child support?

And as far as the appointment goes, I'd ignore his presence. Speak to the consultant as you normally would. I wouldn't ask him to re-cap anything for the idiot! Let him ask himself, but he won't. He'll just sit there & try to look as if he knows what's going on!

What a putz!

MrsC1969HJ Mon 31-Mar-14 23:45:09's just weird! I have no idea and for now won't affect either of those things. He's just making a show, I am dreading it, I am not engaging with him at all, what annoys me is the walking off at the end of it leaving me to pick up the emotional mess my son is left in each time he walks away after what will be a particularly distressing appointment. I hope he feels like shit afterwards because I know I will! Putz - that's a great word :-)

AcrossthePond55 Tue 01-Apr-14 04:09:19

That's the part that drives me absolutely mad! The walking away. I went through that (after a fashion) will my best friend's son. Her XH used to do that & he felt so 'father of the year' while his son was left devastated. But he was so proud of what a 'wonderful father' he was just for showing up at some school function for 1/2 hour! He walked up to him after his Jr High graduation ceremony and said 'I bet your mother told you I wouldn't come' and then just turned around and left. No card, no 'let me take you to dinner', nothing!

Putz, indeed. Yes, that IS a good word!

HoneyandRum Tue 01-Apr-14 08:13:00

OP I would role play that you're in the Mafia. They are masters of understanding that showing no emotion is a form of control. By always being polite and detached and giving absolutely nothing away then you retain your own power in the situation (even if you feel you are collapsing inside). Just play "The Godfather" music inside your head when you meet him. Show. No. Emotion. Stay. Detached.

Don't be self-righteous or scathing as that would reveal they are getting to you. Just be neutral at all times. Think: Robert Duvall.

izziewizzie Tue 01-Apr-14 08:39:40

The "interest" won't last.
My ex overslept on the day dd had a huge operation. He was over four hours late (I had stayed at the GOSH hotel) and icouldnt believe he had done that.
Fast forward to us being split up 6 months later (he was still living with us then) and he insisted oncoming with us to a minor operation. This involved an excruciating trip up to London, him making a big show of what a great dad he was, studying the consent forms and insisting "he must sign them" etc etc
Then on the way home I had a bit of an emotional breakdown I think, and as soon as we got in he left me on my own with dd (14 months at the time) and went off out to see OW.
By that point there was nothing to prove to anyone, he had been a Good Dad in front of people.
A few weeks later he left, nearly 5years later he hasn't seen her again.
It's all show, so everyone can see just how great they are.
Just shows them as more of a dick head than they were really....

springydaffs Wed 02-Apr-14 00:04:40

I've said this before on here but ime I asked ex for the opposite of what I wanted - so, if I wanted him early for pickup I asked him if he could come a bit later; late, early etc. Worked every time.

Imo he's suddenly on the scene because you have shut the shutters on his big party - the emotionally torture MrsC party - and he wants to find out what is going on. He's not going to let his sport go easily so he goes for the jugular: the kids = direct route to a mother's heart. (I appreciate this sounds far-fetched. I wish it were.)

You could alert the hospital about the situation, explaining that you are being abused by ds's father and that he is using ds to do it, that you are separated, and that you don't want him at the appointment, mainly because you know it will be very difficult for ds. They will face this scenario on a regular basis I expect and will have strategies to deal with it eg changing the appointment time/date. (It will also be on record for any future legal hearings).

and/or - and it's a risky strategy: you could gush that you are delighted H is coming to the appointment and you look forward to going through this together as a family. Chances are he won't come if he thinks it is important to you (see first para).

springydaffs Wed 02-Apr-14 00:06:09

btw well done for being cool and factual - it's not easy, as you say. I love the mafia model!

MrsC1969HJ Wed 02-Apr-14 00:28:19

Springy amazing as usual! I have so many posts to reply to yet have had no time this evening. Goodness, when I update you on today's shenanigans......will do my level best to do this in the morning...your quote Springy, "he's suddenly on the scene because you have shut the shutters"...couldn't have rung more true. However, there are other more scary issues and I will post asap, but for now I have to got to bed. Thank you all, once more, for being amazing, I feel so lucky for such great support :-) x

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 02-Apr-14 00:35:19

I hope the hospital appointment goes well for your DS thanks

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 02-Apr-14 18:25:49

How did the appointment go mrsc?

Is your DS okay?

MrsC1969HJ Wed 02-Apr-14 22:36:50

UPDATE. Thank you everybody, especially you handful for remembering appointment. As so much has happened and I have so taken ALL your fabulous advice, I am just going to say what has occurred over the past few days. Firstly, appointment was fine apart from H actually turning up (!). I did you all proud, ignored him, looked hot and remained dignified. He did a HUGE show of being "daddy", made a big old thing of texting OW with big wide smiles and giggles, then showing DS videos he'd taken of him at "Daddy & OW'S" house "oh look at you with your big tractor" (that belongs to OW's son). Son then started to ask where "Granddad" was, to which H replied, "oh he's at school picking up X" to which I responded "Granddad is at home with Nanna and dog". Quite clear to me that he is ignoring undertaking via solicitor to keep DS away from "new" family. Son then asked when they could go and see OW!! WTF?! I kept nerve but said "not today". Was crying inside. So, son might need glasses, but hasn't got Horner's Syndrome, return in 6 months. "Daddy" then said "see you Saturday" and fucked off, leaving me to pick up the screaming child off the floor and comfort him for the next hour.

Anyway, before this. I have been receiving little post. Found out yesterday that husband has set up redirection to his and OW's address. So all statementing stuff for son and mortgage stuff has been going there!!! Made complaint to Post Office...ongoing. Am bloody livid. H laughed in my face and put his finger up to mouth going "hush hush" when I had a go at him, fucking arsehole. I did indeed lose my "detached and cool" mode at that point.

However, later in the evening I received this pitiful email, he has lost his firearms license...oh well, read as follows :

We created a very special person , I wish we could just be normal around him , you may say it will never be normal but as much as you keep trying to hurt me , the only thing that it effects is him . Not looking for a response really past caring we have caused each other so much stress plus my guns are not to return and for what ? The only time you will be happy is when I am dead

Please excuse grammar, not mine!

I didn't respond, hope you're all proud, despite wanting to rant back about how the fuck was this all my fault, I just ignored.

Then today, amazing stuff. We have mutual friends. Found out that husband has an "allowance" each week, doesn't need to seek more work (building contractor), she gives him a list to do around the house each day which includes mucking out her horse and putting him in the paddock. He is allowed out for 2 hours on a Friday for a beer. She has hooked up her i-phone to his so she can read text messages, which now explains why he told me that I could only email him and he had "blocked" me on text. According to friend who went to OW's house to help husband, she is awful, ugly and he cannot understand what H sees in her money. She also towers over H as she is 6ft and he is not :-). She is controlling him, he is complaining about feeling a "bit controlled". She apparently has a HUGE issue with me and is trying to relieve me of my son so I can fuck off and let them be one big happy family! So, where is this going to go do you think?!

I am not going to even start on my medium sister in law....oh happy days ahead :-).

Am still going down the road of detached and bored despite the other day when I found out about the post! He doesn't like it!! xxxx

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 02-Apr-14 22:48:13


On the redirected mail thing. I made my STBXH do that but anything in joint names still comes to the marital home, for example the mortgage statement. Are your DS's letters in your H's sole name? If not then you have a very good case against the post office.

If OW is controlling over him then 1) it's not surprising as she knows that he's capable of straying and 2) it may be why he's trying to control you in return, to regain some sort of twisted macho power.

I'm glad the appointment went well for your DS on the health side. How cruel of your H to go through photos, texts etc while the day was about your son! Shows him for the shallow, insecure little man he is.

Stay strong, you're doing great x

handfulofcottonbuds Wed 02-Apr-14 22:49:57

Oh and stay detached etc for your benefit, not for his and how he might react or how it might affect him.

When I was seeing my stbxh on the rare occasion, I made sure I looked fabulous too - but for me, not him, not to show him what he was missing - it was my mask.

TheSilveryPussycat Wed 02-Apr-14 23:45:30

What cottonbuds says about post addressed to you both.

And IIRC you should have had a letter from the PO explaining that redirection for some mail has been implemented. (I have been through this when Ex finally moved out)

It is hard to see DS so hurt. But so long as he has you he will be alright. (not from personal experience, but from the Emotional Abuse thread's collective wisdom)

AcrossthePond55 Thu 03-Apr-14 00:52:28

mrsC, i have to keep this short. i broke my wrist and am as doped up as f**k.

You are lovely. He is a schmuck.

you will emerge from this all flags flying, he will go down in flames.

glad you got a glimpse into his real life with OW. Doesn't sound quite as rosy as he's painting it, does it?grin

MrsC1969HJ Thu 03-Apr-14 09:37:51

Thank you ladies! I am going to write a formal complaint to the Post Office as jointly named mail is NOT coming here as it should, it is going to OW's house. I did not get a letter informing me of redirection and I actually have no idea how long this has been going on but presume since he left the house.

I have had an awful night's sleep, things milling through my head. I am so angry that despite a written undertaking from H's solicitor, he is clearly still allowing my DS to mix with OW and her family. It is outrageous. I want to kill them both. I cannot understand why the parents of OW are encouraging my son to address them as "Grandma and Granddad", it is not only insulting to DS's own grandparents but confusing for him too.

Also, and some advice needed. OW has hooked up her phone to H's so that she can monitor his texts. He then told me that I was "blocked" and could only email. I presume this is so that she doesn't think we have any contact. It also means he can threaten me with all sorts, do things like cancel the car insurance and she will be none the wiser. How insecure is she? It also leaves her blind to what a prick H actually is. However, my issue is that I cannot contact my H on his mobile and think this is unacceptable when he has DS in his care. If I am out, I have no way of contacting him as I do not have an email facility on my phone so if there was an emergency my hands would be tied. What a dick he is.

AcrossthePond...bless you, I hope you feel better soon, what a horrible thing to happen, I broke my arm as a child and it's just nasty. Rest up and get well! Indeed he is a schmuck and it is quite heartening that things are not as fabulous as he wishes me to believe. I'll bet he's out mucking out that horse as we speak :-)

saffronwblue Thu 03-Apr-14 10:06:58

Wow I have just read the whole thread and my heart goes out to you. He has got himself in very deep and I love to think of her bellowing at him to muck out the horses. I imagine his whole set up will fall apart very soon.
Just keep going day by day, you sound like a lovely mum. How is your DD going?

MrsC1969HJ Thu 03-Apr-14 10:16:42

Saffronwblue...thank you for your lovely message. What a mess this truly is. One day at a time definitely...I will be OK in the end I know, but so tough to deal with. My DD is away in Germany on a school trip at the moment but otherwise fine I think...she is a pain though, 15, it's that age isn't it?! :-)

LBZT Thu 03-Apr-14 10:31:15

mrs c this is my first comment on your thread but I really wanted to share my thoughts pls feel free to ignore them if you think they have no merit.

Firstly what I can see is ow wants your h and is insecure i think she believes that if she has your son she has your h...this is motive for what i will explain below.

my thoughts were why redirect mail what purpose is there for doing that etc, the only thing i could come up with is that he had to have a reason for getting your sons medical letters.

The reason i think is this benefits them in that they will show up in court in a few months time claiming you can't cope with son and his medical history etc. They will show the courts that all medical stuff for him has been going to them I would also bet that they start to change appointments and take him themselves showing you as being not as interested a parent. I know I sound paranoid here but think about it. Is this possible??

I don't understand why any medical stuff is in joint names you are the resident parent all the clinics gp speech and language etc should all be addressed to you and only you. Can you get onto these depts explain H is no longer living there and get all correspondance in your name only.
Also I think you need to be v careful about what you are saying about h or ow to anyone espically his family...blood is thicker than water and all that. I am worried that it may bite you at a later date.

Re the phone and no contact you need legal advice on this.

I hope my post doesn't sound too crazy but you can't trust their motives and redirecting the mail had to have a purpose.

By the way you are amazing to keep going through all this it must be truly awful. Keep going and pls excuse my spelling I am v dyslexic.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 03-Apr-14 10:58:49

LBZT - thank you for your post, all opinions welcomed!! When H left, he redirected post to the place he said he was living (a friend's house) except this was to put me off scent. Now I know he is living with OW I believe he has set up a second redirection, however, I believe that the fact he has received some mail is the fault of the PO as they should send jointly named mail only to the marital home. This is being dealt with. I am currently contacting all agencies involved in son's statementing to ensure only I receive mail. As his main carer and resident parent, I don't believe they will be able to change appointments or take him but I will check this. Indeed they could take me to court but would have to prove I couldn't cope, which is not the case. My husband has only just started taking an interest and hasn't attended any other appointments so this could be easily proved. I know they are definitely up to something!

I have no worries about his family. He has been disowned entirely and he has no contact with them. They have all supported me 100% and continue to do so. I am really lucky in that regard.

Thanks so much, and post was fine despite dyslexia :-)

springydaffs Thu 03-Apr-14 23:13:34

Then get everything down in writing, get as much evidence from agencies as possible, doubly and triply (iyswim) so he has no means of successfully making false allegations, twisting the truth.

re the email from him - well done for not replying but there must be some response registered somewhere: you must get your side across, you can't let the allegations he is making lie.

I think LZBT is right that they are cooking something - so, with that in mind, get the true facts documented (repeats self, but necessary I think!)

I've never heard such a nasty story tbh - which is saying something as I've been around domestic abuse circles for decades. My mind boggles at what you've endured so far ((hug))

springydaffs Thu 03-Apr-14 23:17:36

To that end, and sorry if I'm repeating what someone else may have suggested, do keep a detailed diary or events, dates, your truth about said events etc. It is apparently potent evidence legally, I assume because it's close documentation of events and 'fresh' ie written at the time.

MrsC you really could have some fun with the hooked up iphone (that you don't know is hooked up IFKWIM wink).
A spare mobile --text to his number from Miss X thanking him for the drink he bought her and yes she would like to meet up again next week (at a time he was allowed out to play)
a text to him from you--saying this is my new number, please stop harrassing me, l don't want you back you made your choice now you have to live with it. Leave me alone....

so many more things you could say.....

MrsC1969HJ Thu 03-Apr-14 23:52:33

Ohldoneedtogetagrip....LOL, have had that exact conversation on another thread tonight...good God, that would rock the boat. She is so paranoid and jealous...and so she should be. I am much better than her in every way :-) reminds self he left me for her....:-(

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 00:02:20

Springdaffs...That you for your usual insightful post...but need some clarification here. Should I have responded to that email? I didn't because it was all self-pitying claptrap and full of the usual "blame game" rubbish. I should say that everything, absolutely everything these two have done has been in writing or via text. They are quite stupid like that. He has shown zero interest in son's appointments and in fact a couple of months ago when I had to take son to have epilepsy tests (a feat in itself, was awful), he refused to give me my new tax disc and wrote to me to say I could not drive the car. Who does that? This recent interest in health issues is new. Yesterday he didn't have a clue what that appointment was about and didn't even ask, I had had 6 previous appointments before that one, none of which he attended! I am going to make an appointment with our Health Visitor and get son checked over by GP as H sent me an email the other day suggesting that he has a lot of "marks"...I said indeed he does, he's 3, he has no skin on his knees either. The same GP had to give evidence to the firearms unit about my husband (licence now withdrawn) so I think he will back me up entirely, he knows us well and our history. The nursery are aware of the situation and back me up 100%. I will not be intimidated by these two idiots. They are clearly completely deluded...their set up is not normal at all and I think I have enough back up from absolutely bloody everybody if they tried anything. God what a bloody mess this is. ALL could have been avoided if they had held their hands up at the beginning rather than create this huge uncontrollable monster....

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 00:24:06

I rather thing that OhIDont is on to a good idea here wink


Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 00:24:19

think not thing!

gypsygirlfromlondon Fri 04-Apr-14 00:39:23

Mrs C- I am so very sorry for your situation and am hoping that you can continue to be strong for you and your son.

For what it's worth and I could be completely wrong , so please forgive me and put me straight here if so, but how old is you husband?

When I was about 23, my father had a what I can only describe as a real breakdown or true 'mid life crisis' in his early 50's.

He had always had short affairs but this was different. He openly had a affair in front of my mother for 3 years with a lawyer who gave me one of her horses when I was 18 ( I did nor realise they were having an affair at the time)

He then divorced my mother a year later ( after 33 years of marriage) telling my mum he didn't want to leave her but wanted both women in his life and loved the OW as well.

He then squandered all his money, made very poor business decisions and bankrupted the family business. To this day we have no money as we lost everything.

He 'divorced' me too after my mother refused to accept his demands for a mistress. He has no contact with my 3 young children or shows any interest in my life at all although he came to my wedding. I am his only child. He met yet another woman during the divorce and now lives with her although after 15 years has still not married her to my knowledge.

My point is, that so you think your husband could have be going through a midlife crisis- I mean a real one like my father which leads to devastating consequences? He used to tell me he could see crucifixes moving and had visions of his dead mother who abandoned him at birth.

I have not read every post but his behaviour reminds me of my father's.
All the recriminations, the attack, the financial threats, the nastiness.

My mother said that my father was a completely different man when she met him off a train one day after a visit to friends. He spoke differently, acted strangely and attacked my mother verbally and psychologically. He tried to deny her any financial settlement and blamed her for his unhappiness.

Could this account for you not seeing this coming? I am now estranged from my dad after having a very close bond with him all through my childhood.

It was as if a light just switched off in his mind and we were strangers- have been now for 20 years as I am in my early 40's.

Sorry to talk about myself.I don't mean to but just to let you know you are not alone. Your situation is very hard and you must try to be so brave to get through this, which you can do!

Whatever you do- please consider cutting out that other woman from you and your son's life.

I agree, show no emotion to their cruelty. Calm, professional, barrier them both off. Keep very centred and focused on you and your family's future smile

Your husband is using her as ammunition against you.

Sending you hugs and strength flowers brew

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 00:44:15 know it!! ;-)

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 00:49:53

Gypsygirlfromlondon...thank you for your lovely post, I am so sorry that you have had to endure such an ordeal at the hands of your father. It does appear to be a universal problem and they have no idea of the devastation they wreak upon everybody and the shockwave effect on everybody else...long term damage too, to wives, kids, it's horrible. My H turned 42 last October. We had an awful year last year and he had a significant medical diagnosis that was life changing and to do with his "plumbing". The very many problems we have had with our son didn't help either. I guess "mid life crisis" is one way of putting it. It is unfortunate that he has hooked up with somebody so very damaged and malicious as they are just feeding off eachother. My H had a difficult childhood, has abandonment issues (father left), yet did same to son! Oh it goes on. He needs a psychiatrist, he really does. My counsellor has focussed a lot on his behaviour actually, which has been interesting. I don't suppose I will ever know, all I know is that he is not the man I married and has done things I didn't think he was capable of. It has broken me. Almost. Yet still I love him and miss him. Grieving for what I thought I had and the future I now won't have. Still, onwards and upwards. I wish I could keep OW away from my son, but I haven't a leg to stand on with this one unless she did something to hurt him. Very very difficult! I hope you're OK, you sound very sad. Sending hugs and strength back :-) x

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 00:57:48

I found this amazing link on another thread..says it all really...the "Romantic Infidelity" section is my husband to a "t" made me sad because it's all true...

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 09:31:43

I think you were probably right not to reply but please be very careful you get the truth officially documented somewhere, a rebuttal to the picture he is painting. I don't know if a short, factual email to him may suffice - so that there the truth is, in black and white. But you don't want to get into a slanging match - I'm not/yes you are: close him down with statements (if you have to).

You say that they have done everything in writing - is what they have written incriminating ie have they made their abuse absolutely clear? Have they written things that make it clear that eg he is not interested in your son? If so, you're laughing (iyswim - it is no laughing matter).

I say all this because I was in a similar position, in a way, and I didn't take the threat seriously, I assumed that decency etc would win out (particularly as what was happening was so outlandish). Well, it didn't win out; I wish I had taken the very real threat seriously, that I had seen it for what it was. Too late now.

You have to bear in mind EVIDENCE. What evidence is there that they are abusing you (and using your son as one avenue of abuse)? Think like a lawyer, crouch over evidence, make sure the truth is documented somehow.

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 09:52:40

I agree with springydaffs cool calm and think like a lawyer.

These "marks" they refer to are worrying, they are trying to build a picture of neglect and poss abuse, you need to get back up here, professional back up. You mentioned up thread that at first your reactions were very emotional, do they have e-mails or anything that can imply that you are "unhinged"?

Reading your thread slightly scares me as it seems that the ow would go to any lengths to get what she wants and you shouldn't under estimate her. By the way I am glad you didn't meet her she would of twisted it to her advantage, remember she will lie lie lie and manipulate to get what she wants and I still think that is your son, sorry to be so blunt.

Hope you have a good day today and that this stressful time will soon be in your post.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 10:11:01

LBZT is right. I would never in a million (zillion!) years have thought that ex's new wife would win in her open and blatant bid for my kids, effectively erasing me from the picture. But she did. I wish someone was around at the time to sound the klaxon that she was a real threat (backed by ex).

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 10:19:46

oh springydaffs how awful for you. Do you see your kids?
That is such a terrible thing to endure I don't think I have the words here, bless you for using what has happened to try and help someone else.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 11:07:31

Not at the moment - but I live in hope! I don't mean to hijack MrsC but I do want you to open your eyes to what they are doing and that they could represent a very real threat. EVIDENCE is key. Get any and every agency on board in order to get solid evidence established, sooner rather than later. Are you in close contact with Womens Aid? Please DO get them fully on board - they are a powerful resource. Get a WA support worker on your case as soon as.

LavenderGreen14 Fri 04-Apr-14 12:08:11

Springy - that is so terrible. Am so sorry, I don't really know what to say. I really hope you get them back. thanks

you are so very wise - is just so heartbreaking you are speaking from such bitter experience. The OW tried to discredit and erase me too - my child is much older so told them to sod off, but am sure if younger I would have fought the same battle.

handfulofcottonbuds Fri 04-Apr-14 12:49:09

springy - you have helped me so much, I'm so sorry to hear what happened. Don't want to hijack mrsc's thread but thanks

mrsc - hope you're okay today? So much wise advice on here and I know you are taking it all in.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 12:49:43

Thanks. These two were the slithering around sort - they weren't obviously abusive (and they were very rich so had the power to get what they wanted. The devil does indeed wear a suit.).

Anyway, let's get back to the plan: MrsC, as I said upthread, it looks like these two have been obvious - look over all correspondence with the eagle eye of a lawyer and dissect what they've written but ALSO what you've written: could any of what you've written be misconstrued legally? If so, start addressing it now - not obviously, of course, but tie off loose ends ie don't address any anomolies openly ('I shoudn't have said that, I didn't mean it') but find a way to write something new that reflects your true, strong position. Stick to statements, moreorless, and don't enter into dialogue. Actions fully backing up any statements you make, of course.

Re the emotional abuse: never has the phrase 'disengage' been more appropriate than in this case. If you disengage from the emotional abuse BY NOT RESPONDING EMOTIONALLY it will bring the whole thing to a juddering halt. Of course he will try to stick pins in you - and he'll know how to do it, as he knows you - but don't respond (at least not to him/her - what you do privately is another matter!). He/they will up their game (or at least their true intent will become apparent... and it looks like it already is) but stay steady, get the big guns firmly on your side.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 12:57:02

And keep a detailed diary!

Write up all past events to the best of your ability - a gruelling task but needs must. Then keep current events up to date as and when they happen.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:05:16

Springy I am going to PM you. What a dreadful state of affairs. What I will say is that the nonsense I have had from my H and the OW say everything about their states of mind and less about my capabilities as a parent. In a minute, I will post up an example. I have today arranged for my son to have a full check up with our GP which is happening on Monday. I have also arranged for the Health Visitor to come out. Have rung all agencies regarding post etc in relation to son. I have spoken to the Nursery manager this morning who is right behind me. I have MANY people available to testify on my behalf, even H's parents. Indeed I sent very many emails at the beginning that were very emotional and one where I said I wanted to die!!! I didn't, I was just doubled up in pain. H then suggested that "they" take DS until I "sorted myself out", obviously that never happened, I would never have let it. I think it would be obvious to anybody that my reactions were grief and loss. I can't see anything else to be honest. Bear in mind my husband received a caution for violence and had his firearms removed as a result of that...I also once emailed him to tell him about son's epilepsy tests and he emailed back basically alluding to suicide if I "took his son away". Really, you'd have to read it all to believe it. Let alone the ones for her going about her dead husband and her son, all while living with my goes on. I have a lot to produce if necessary. The main thing for me has been the huge difference in my son's behaviour since his father left, something noted by everybody. He now sleeps through, he is calmer, a much happier soul. The main damage being when my H walks away after access and I am left to clear up the distress. So, I will post further in a moment..

BitsinTatters Fri 04-Apr-14 13:08:58

Wow mrsC they sound like a right pair of cunts.

Really sorry for you and your children.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Fri 04-Apr-14 13:10:40

Hi MrsC. Firstly I just want to say how sorry I am that you are going through this. Your H is an absolute twat of the highest order! I am in awe of your restraint and ability to keep on going. And you will keep on going. It is evident that you are strong, capable woman, with a deep love for your children and what is best for them.

I dare say that it won't be long until your H realises that he has fucked up massively and that life with OW is actually pretty shitty.

It astounds me how much people can change in such a small space of time, but stay strong and keep doing what you are doing. One day, hopefully soon, the stress and drama will dissipate and you will continue with your life the way you want it smile

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:17:25

Thank you BitsinTatters and puds, I so appreciate support and comments! Do you know, I have always hated the "C" word but it is now my favourite. There is no better description!

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:24:07

Right, this is the sort of thing I have had to deal with. An example. Due to incident at home resulting in H's caution, SS only allowed contact at a centre until they were satisfied that DS was in no danger. DS witnessed the entire incident and was VERY distressed afterwards. After 1st contact centre visit, I was extremely upset and emailed my H (which I accept I shouldn't have done and I did tell my solicitor) blaming them both for putting DS in that position, called her a bitch, called him an arse, said I felt sorry for her son living with them, I was in tears and upset. Said that I couldn't believe that a woman who's son had lost his own father could inflict such pain on another child...that touched a nerve and I got this :

I warned you to leave me alone. I will not put up with your juvenile shit and name calling any longer.

STBXH left you because you are clearly a nutcase. A delusional, fucked up, horrible no mark.

We started a relationship after you had driven him away. If you were so great and he had it so good, why did he leave? I have your admission by email that you were at fault for the breakdown, yet now you want to kid people it was my doing!

Do not presume to be so self righteous as to feel sorry for my son.

You caused your husband to leave. You cause your son the distress of when and where he sees his father. STBXH offered other options to see DS, but you and you alone, insisted on the contact centre. You portray yourself as the victim, yet so many are now so bored of your pitiful bleating; clearly they can all see through you.

Pitifully, this is a game to you. You are the worst excuse for a caring, loving mother I have ever come across. You never put DS first. You only want revenge and spare no consideration for him. You sad fuck!

We know the truth, deep down you do too, but it suits you to try to be seen as the wounded one.

I offered STBXH a safe and secure place to bring DS, you can't see that. You just judge me by your own standards, two kids by different dads, Facebook, Twitter and no doubt some Jeremy Kyle for good measure!

I have passed your slanderous remarks to her family liaison officer as you have given me no option but to bring your bullying to a halt.

You could stop this, but you are obviously too vindictive to see reason.

So, you can see what a vile individual this woman is. Talk about reflecting! This did backfire somewhat. Turned out H had given her a completely distorted version of events of the "assault" and hence she reacted like this. They are not even being honest with eachother, let alone how they have behaved towards me and the children.

I have a lot of stuff similar to this. Foolish eh?

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 13:34:03

The MN mantra of Detach Detach Detach has never been more needed.

How are you going to cover yourself with regards to previous e-mails sent by you?

Also your H making refernce to wanting to kill himself if you took son from him, did you ever e-mail text this to him or say it to him...he could use this against you.

I don't want to sound harsh but your reactions are to emotional and in order to ensure the best for your son you have to cool off several degrees and think with your head not your heart. See the whole thing from a legal stance every word every action by you they are watching and accessing and trying to work out where their advantage is, just remeber that.

Take Care

growingolddicustingly Fri 04-Apr-14 13:37:46

Oh MrsC aren't they a delightful pair? And isn't life grand that they have found each other to cling to against the rest of the world. Rise above it all, don't respond and record, record, record. It's hard to have a fight if there is no push back an it will make them mad. Mad people let their guard down and do and say stupid things that will come back to bite them on the bum.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:38:57

LBZT that is what I am now doing.

I can't cover myself at all, that's not possible. There were a lot of emotional and sad emails and texts, with a lot of cruel and nasty responses. Not least more shit from her.

I don't understand how H's message to me alluding to suicide could be used against me? It was ridiculous. My message was a clear statement of what had happened that day, the tests and when the results were coming through. He came back with some rambling drunken diatribe. It says more about him that it does on me.

I just keep everything on a level now. That's it. If they apply to the court for custody of my son, they would lose. My solicitor has said so as have my SS friends who work in Child Protection. Even my H's solicitor has told him he has barely any chance of success. Oh, I also have proof that my husband was buying illegal anabolic steriods and self-injecting, something that changed his personality completely...

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:41:01

growingolddicsutingly...I did respond to that email saying clearly "please stop, I will not dignify your comments and you are not helping the situation". To which she replied "dignify this, fuck off you delusional prick". For somebody who thinks she has the moral high ground, she has the most appalling manners!

growingolddicustingly Fri 04-Apr-14 13:51:05

See MrsC how a rational response from you winds OW up so tight that she puts her foot right in it. I hope you have kept her response along with all your other evidence. LBZT is right you have to detach emotionally (bloody hard I know when injustices are thrown at you all the time). Your mantra should be "Cool, calm and classy" - something you have proved to be throughout so far with the odd, very understandable, wobble.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 13:57:02

growingolddicustingly....Indeed. She really is a fool. Mind you, H has got himself into a right situation there hasn't he?! I keep EVERYTHING. All her emails went to HER police liaison officer. He was disgusted. I'll bet she was horrified, trying to get me into trouble and then realising she has been shown up to be the adulterous nasty cow she is to the officer who has supported her since her husband was killed. Picked on wrong wife this time, I'm telling you!

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 14:12:00

It's not 'foolish' though, and it's not 'nonsense'. It is serious stuff, please don't dismiss it as though your contempt would have legal clout.

All together now, let's all kneel down and thank God that ex no longer has his firearms license <phew>

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 14:23:25

I guess so Springy - would you want somebody like that around your child? You can see my issue here. My solicitor has seen the emails but said just ignore and don't engage...much the same as here really! I agree re : firearms. I wasn't the only one interviewed wasn't my fault at all, it was his, referral from police, but still they blame me!

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 14:43:32

sorry mrsc I don't know how they could use it against you but I think that for your sake you have to assume that they will if they can. I wouldn't trust them at all and that includes giving them the benefit of the doubt that they won't. I think that you need to be prepared for anything. If they are this brazen you can't assume they won't go after your son and that could include them lying through their teeth to gain their adjective. Courts make mistakes sad fact of life but true.

I really hope that none of this happens to you but everything that has gone before it would be unwise to assume you are on safe ground.

I also say this because your H told you ow was building a case of harresment against you and you dismissed it as not possible. I think you need to take that seriously. They are liars and will go to any lengths or means to get what they want. You really need to be prepared cover your back anyway you can. They see this as war they don't care about you and honestly they don't care about your son because otherwise they would do anything to make this co parenting work for the sake of your son. Bottom line they are not and I think they are playing to win.

My posts sound so gloomy... sorry I want to aim for more upbeat to encourage you not to discourage you because it's clear you have been through the mill and are still standing. I can only admire that I'm not sure if I was in your place if they could even scrap me off the floor.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 14:57:19

LBZT...oh goodness no, I hear you totally, and am not being at all complacent, hence making sure son is thoroughly checked and everybody knows. I would love to see what OW could come up with as "harassment". I have contacted a police friend for advice on this so will see what she says. They will try anything, I appreciate that. The thing that bothers me is that H has no friends, no family, no one to guide him at all, hence he is a loose cannon and she is encouraging him. A dangerous combination indeed. What about her child too? Goodness, he is not my problem, but wow, what a situation to put him in so soon after losing his dad and she the nerve to criticize me?! I am standing, just, I have my days believe me. I will get through this though! :-) x

Catkinsthecatinthehat Fri 04-Apr-14 15:34:41

Mrs C, although you've informally asked a friend in the police for advice, maybe you should inform the liaison officer that they are apparently building a harassment case against you. It could be useful to have something logged via official channels, and if they are planning to contact the police about you again, you'll have got your side of the story in first.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 16:32:32

Cat...yes, I suspect that is what my friend will say actually. I will probably contact the PC who came here after the January incident as we now have a record of behaviour. I have also emailed the liaison officer, although to be fair he has no reason to listen to me...but it will at least be logged. He was pretty disgusted by all accounts. Thanks so much, so grateful for all advice thus far :-)

oldgrandmama Fri 04-Apr-14 16:39:25

YES, what Catkins said - get as much evidence built up as you can about how they've carried on and make sure it's known about and logged. The man and his ladylove (!)sound quite demented, to be honest.

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 04-Apr-14 16:41:10

If he's lost his firearms licence does he own a gun still? Because if you lose the licence you have to sell them or they are illegally held.

If they are held illegally the police can confiscate them & you don't get any money for them at all.

The police would be VERY interested if he had held onto his gun.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 16:43:29

I'm with LZBT on being serious and 'gloomy' as this is war, it's serious. I'm not saying you are complacent but huffing and puffing won't do it. You have to get serious because this is serious. Like, really serious. 'How dare they!'s won't do it - in face, won't even touch it. As I said in my case I genuinely thought common sense would win out. It didn't occur to me that it wouldn't.

So knuckle down, get serious, get focused. Your life depends on it - though I'm sure you realise that.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 16:45:02

LBZT, I got you twizzled around.

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 16:52:15

The comment about OW being demented sounds right to me.

In all seriousness, I think that this is some kind of extreme reaction to losing her DH. I dont know if STBXH was having an affair with her before her husband was killed (sorry if that was mentioned, I missed it if it was), but this sounds to me like she is desperate to have her husband back, but as she cant she is putting STBX in his place.

I wouldnt be at all surprised to hear that she has a total breakdown at some point because she isnt dealing with her grief she is just trying to replace her H with MrsC's. I have to say I am very concerned that someone with such obvious MH issues is involved with children (her own and the OPs), and if things did get nasty from their side re court etc, it is something I would be raising officially.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 18:04:28

Fluffycloudland...the guns were removed by the firearms unit after he received his caution, with no warning. They just go in in cases like this. So, he doesn't have them, they are in Police stores. He won't be able to "handle" them again but will be able to sell them. The email from OW above was because she thought I had rung SS and the firearms unit, but I hadn't the referral came from the is automatic.

Springy...I promise, I am not being complacent, I will do all I can to protect myself. I understand that he had contacted the mediator this afternoon about organising our next session, a lot of these issues can be brought up. I am not looking forward to that...!

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 04-Apr-14 18:06:52

There is no time for courts to look into everything in detail. So they tend to go on written stuff (not reams of it, or you do look barking) and on the opinion of CAFCASS.

I know all this as a friend has been through it. The fact that her DS was playing upstairs with a half-sibling, instead of friend doing something one-to-one with DS, as friend was trying to do a kind of ordinary family life, was held against her. Her Ex, OTOH, could do a devoted father act with his only child (the DS lived with him, and he did his best to deny her contact.) (I'm sure he is devoted, but equally sure he didn't undermine friend to DS while CAFCASS were there, which from things DS came out with while I've been present, I'm pretty sure is the case). His devotion didn't stop him using DS as a weapon against my friend.

Of course, documenting everything, you will start with reams of it. The thing is to condense it without weakening your case. sad

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 04-Apr-14 18:09:59

*plus what both say in Family Court, of course. The fact that my friend couldn't help bursting into tears will have counted against her as well.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 18:10:18

It's a lawyer's job to condense it, or to pick out salient points. Your job is to record everything so a lawyer can pick out relevant bits.

re the OW - barking or not, she's been put up to it by ex, who has told her lurid tales. So far, so standard, I'm sorry to say. It was the same in my case. They load the gun and get someone else to pull the trigger so they look whiter than white - 'not me, guv'

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 18:11:41

Bogeyface...Honestly, I have no idea, did you read email above? It's not normal. I have found that mostly OW stay in the background, not this one! It's all "blame blame blame" and making me the target. My counsellor thinks she is using me as a target for her grief. It's interesting you say about affair before her husband's death, that has crossed my mind but I have found nothing to suggest this. I do think something was going on from about July (4 months post accident) although they both vehemently deny this and indeed the only real evidence I have found is from October, but his behaviour before suggests otherwise, but that's another story. I too am concerned about the children, bear in mind that all her businesses are child related too. I have to say, I would in some ways welcome them applying to the court because at least then I would get CAFCASS and a Court Welfare Officer....the thing is, she has a very malicious side, she has always flirted with my husband, my brother hasn't got a nice word to say about her and she worked for him for 3 years! God I hope this relationship fails, I can't bear an alternative. I could cope with my husband meeting somebody decent and not involved...anything else is unbearable :-(

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 04-Apr-14 18:13:21

Yes it is springy - but it all takes time - and this was billed against Legal Aid.

TheSilveryPussycat Fri 04-Apr-14 18:15:28

Plus each thing he did, which she noted afterwards, looked so trivial - the death of a thousand cuts, well known on the EA thread.

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 18:24:44

Do you have to go into mediation, couldn't you state that you feel that it could be used to bully you? Talking face to face anything could slip out and could be used against you. If possible can this be avoided. What if she has prepped him before hand and he goes in with an agenda to push you in a certain direction to trip yourself up. I would be so worried at this stage I would be avoiding any contact apart from through a solicitor.

Can I just say that I don't post to much on here because I get sooooo frustrated with not being able to spell the words I need to express myself, so I sit here and have to use google, my DS's or DH to help with my spelling.
It drives me round the bend that I can't just type away and it takes 10 times longer than should just to type a simple post hence why I avoid. But I had to on this thread that is how strongly I felt about saying my piece. I needed to tell you that I felt you are dealing with soemthing really serious and to be extra extra careful going forward. Please please be careful.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 18:30:01

As things stand, my H has only asked for 2 hours access on a Weds afternoon and all day Sat. He uses the residency thing as a tool to torture me with. Please bear in mind I have a brother who is paying my legal fees, I don't get any legal aid at all. I try to use my solicitor as little as possible and that is why we are going down the mediation route. For now I have all agencies involved as much as I can and I will continue with mediation and see where that takes us. I am holding onto the fact that my husband came to the home, assaulted me, got a caution, did all of that in front of son, uses illegal substances, has mental health issues, has behaved in the most outrageous way possible, cut us off financially, tried to make us lose our home, had his guns confiscated etc etc etc will demonstrate he is not a stable parent. I might be wrong though!

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 18:34:45 seem amazingly eloquent to me! I have to do mediation, the courts order it these days, they will only intervene if you can't sort things yourself. For my husband to make an application for custody it will cost £7,000 plus VAT and it could be a year or more before it is heard. IF he does this, it will not happen overnight. My solicitor and his have told us both that due to our perilous financial situation, mediation is the most effective solution, plus I don't actually have to face him if I don't want to, I can do shuttle mediation where we are seen separately, but I fail to see the point in this. The idea is to thrash things out face to face. The mediation is mainly to set down access arrangements, maintenance and sorting out the house etc. A custody application would be an entirely different thing.

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 18:46:19

Thank you mrsc for answering my post. I hope that you get everything you need out of mediation.
FWIW I agree with a pp that ow is likely heading towards a breakdown. I can see why you wouldn't want your DS near any of that.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 19:09:50 you know, it's funny, when I first found out it was her and she tried to drag me in with "being a support or someone to shout at", totally manipulative, I did think that there were worse people to be around my son, I actually now can't believe I thought that. I know that she adores her son, but her behaviour shows she has NEVER put him first in this. She moved in a man she thinks she knows, but doesn't, with a child who had just lost his father and is still undergoing bereavement counselling. That doesn't say a lot for her as a mother does it? She must know that in her heart. The fact that at this early stage, she is monitoring my H and he is deleting emails so she can't see them, doesn't say much for trust in that relationship does it? I have no idea if mediation will be successful, it may not be, but I will cross that bridge if/when I come to it. All I know is that I would like to get on with my life and neither of them will let me at the moment :-(

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 19:20:18

MrsC there is someone on another thread that has done shuttle mediation and the process worked well for her because it meant that she could avoid all the abuse that you have had in the session. Mediation failed because her ex, like yours, was (is) an utter cunt who wanted it all his way and kicked off big style when it became clear that that wasnt going to happen. But....she had done it, so when it goes to court it will not count against her because she tried. He was the one who refused to give the right information, refused to give his financial disclosure, refused any compromise etc She has a paper trail a mile long that proves that she asked nothing outrageous, and a equally long paper trail that proves he is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I am sure that your mediation will go the same way. He has no control over his life anymore, Fruitloop has seen to that, so he will try to control you and the divorce. Except that he cant because what he wants will not be seen as fair or equitable, in fact the harder he tries to force it the more unstable he will appear. So, mediation will fail, it will go to court and he will get very short shrift from the judge on the basis that he had no intention of ever trying to do things properly for all concerned.

The email is .... fucked up, further proof of her total detachment from reality. I just mentioned the MH bit in case it hadnt crossed your mind and it becomes an issue that you might need looking into for any court case etc. Certainly worth mentioning it to your solicitor so that it is already logged there, even if you dont want to mention it as part of the proceedings (which I wouldnt at this stage, it would just make things worse).

Any news on the sim card? wink

AngelaDaviesHair Fri 04-Apr-14 19:23:47

Don't dismiss shuttle mediation, it can be very good.

springydaffs Fri 04-Apr-14 19:42:39

Lawyers speed read - plus they'll give you a ballpark of the type of thing they are looking for. But yes, in my case, I did a lot of the legal donkey work - a bit like preparing an essay, you have to read (or in your case, write) and research a lot of stuff before you condense it all down. I was going to say that certain themes/truths may become obvious as you're writing things up... but that isn't necessarily the case as one can feel snowed under with it all and it's hard to see themes when you're emotionally scattered. Perhaps this is where a WA support worker would come in, to highlight themes to look out for amidst the endless dross that would be pertinent, encapsulating the whole onslaught of abuse.

I'm liking the sound of his general out-of-controlness MrsC. That's the ticket.

Shuttle mediation sounds ideal in that the mediator would present to him your proposals in a condensed and concise form. Which would take the pressure off you to have to hold in your emotions and speak like a robot.

LBZT Fri 04-Apr-14 19:50:13

I know little about mediation but I do like the sound of shuttle mediation, because it will not give your H a chance to abuse or try and control you, plus he won't be able to feed off your reactions it reduces the whole affair to an emotionless/faceless transaction. On a brighter note I can only imagine it will give you more control and annoy the hell out of H. Thumbs up from me.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 19:50:32

Angela - I won't but would prefer face to face..mainly because he can't bloody look at me and knows he's a twat :-).

Bogey - The thing is, this is so utterly ridiculous. We've got a house with huge mortgage but a reasonable amount of equity (which he told me via text he was "signing over" to me in its' entirety - doh). He has signed over the car. There are no pensions, savings, investments (well a minor one of windfall shares that I have). He has left me on benefits, only has to pay a small amount of maintenance. HOWEVER, he has a business, the guns, she has to disclose, he has been doing "things" that make me believe he is hiding assets. He sold his van so he could drive round in dead husband's car...and I would like a settlement thanks, so we have to do this.

He is screwed if this relationship fails, she's got him by the balls and totally financially dependant, he's got nothing but the clothes on his back. I said to my friend Lavendar's like Stephen King's "Misery", when he tries to escape, she'll tie him to the bed and cut off his feet!

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 20:35:37

It is ridiculous I agree!

But you need to be seen to be playing the game in order to come out on top when it goes to court (which it will). At the moment they think they are holding all the cards, so let them think that. Let them get so tied up in their one righteous indignation that they make utter fools of themselves in court.

Mediation is about getting resolution, and you need to show that you were open and amenable to that without damaging your own case (be that the divorce or the threatened custody case). Dont underestimate the power of a charged situation when you are nervy and emotional and he turns on the bullying again. Mediators can stop sessions if they feel it is abusive but once the words are said they cant be taken back and your reaction can be a weapon for him. Using it to make a point because he cant look you in the eye is pointless, it really is. He doesnt give a toss and it wont change anything. He wont come out of it feeling bad, but you may very well do, it just aint worth it.

Shuttle mediation means that you can state what you want/need and he has to respond to that without him being allowed to interrupt, shout you down or abuse you. It is very useful in situations such as yours and I really would insist on it with him as he will use any chance he can to put you down. Taking away that opportunity will send him up the wall but there is nothing he can do about it and that in itself is a victory!

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 20:38:56

Oh and yes I agree, it would be great if the relationship failed.....AFTER you have been to court!

Because as it stands his outgoings are shared, housing costs, bills, etc are shared with her so he has a higher disposable income to pay you and your son with, so you will get a higher award.

If it then goes tits up he has to go back to court to get it amended and guess what? He wont be able to afford to!

Play the long game. I know it is hard (God knows I know!) but try and keep it in, be the ice queen in regards to cunt and fruitloop, vent on here and remember that sometimes you have to concede a battle in order to win the war smile

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 20:52:02

Springy and LBZT...I will give that all some thought this weekend actually..maybe shuttle is the way to go. I have a friend (who I met at the contact centre actually) who did it and it failed miserably until they actually got face to face. I literally can't bear to look at H at the moment, he just makes me sick with all his shuffling around. He is shamed and shameful and knows it....I can't bear to look at this man I was married to for 14 years and who has done this to me :-(

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 20:58:12

Bogey Thank my darling for such a useful input...actually on the last mediation he tied himself up in knots..."I take X each month out of business and give it all to MrsC in terms of maintenance and mortgage interest". When mediator asked how he lived he said "OW gives me money to live on"...when mediator said "so you make no contribution to the expenses of your current home", he said "yes, I pay part of the mortgage and all the utilities" which she said "out of money your OW gives you?" which he couldn't respond...she cut it short there and said "let's wait for the Form E. It was laughable actually. He then started ranting about closing down his company, "moving out" as it was only "temporary accommodation"...blah blah. He hasn't the intelligence to cope with mediation...and this is why he relied on me so much. He can't let the mask slip with her but it will get him into trouble in the end. He even emailed his solicitor and copied me in saying "I think it's unfair that I am still paying the mortgage for these people, can I cancel direct debit and default"..."THESE PEOPLE", my daughter, HIS SON...WTF?!?!? See why I don't think he'll get far with anything else?!

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 21:11:56

I do understand! I would be inclined to act like the idiot he thinks you are.

He is CC'ing you into his emails to his solicitor FFS! I bet they had a field day when that came through! Clearly the phrase "play your cards close to your chest" means nothing to him!

He is hanging himself and you need to keep doling out the rope. The email you mentioned will go down a storm with your solicitor if it gets to court as it will show his utter contempt of you, despite is protestations that he is just trying to be fair!

Bite your tongue, keep biting it! He is doing all of your work for you!

Bogeyface Fri 04-Apr-14 21:14:42

And you are very welcome my love smile

You have the power of MN behind, who could possibly fail with that?! grin

frumpet Fri 04-Apr-14 22:01:12

The only thing keeping their relationship alive is their hatred of you , keep contact to a minimum, that way they will be left with the boring humdrum of a life living together , let them work that one out for themselves wink

MrsC1969HJ Fri 04-Apr-14 23:41:36

Bogey...oh yes, he does it quite a lot...and in fact I did ignore protocol a few weeks ago when he emailed me to say he'd cancelled the car insurance because he realised a neighbour had come forward to say she'd seen him assaulting me...then followed it up with "I haven't even started yet"...blah blah...accused me of "sticking the knife in even though I try to help you all the time (??????)", so I just forwarded the lot to his solicitor and mine. This is what I mean...thick as shit...!

Frumpet...thank you, I agree...and that is what I am doing :-)

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 09:20:52

Morning all, ranting on here instead of ranting anywhere else. Why after nearly six months and after everything he has done to me, do I still get this knawing anxiety before every pick up? I try not to see him, son runs out and I shut the door, but I still feel shaky and sick to my stomach every time. How can you feel like that about somebody you've lived with for 14 years? I hate seeing him driving somebody else's car, or even worse, her signwritten cars, it's like constantly rubbing my nose in his "new life". It hurts so much :-(

handfulofcottonbuds Sat 05-Apr-14 09:34:19

I know it hurts, he is being completely insensitive. This false display of 'look how wonderful my life is and look how I have moved on from you' shouldn't fool you lovely.

Always have something planned for yourself after pick ups. Lunch with friends, shopping, a massage, buy yourself some flowers - anything. It will give you something to get ready for and not to dwell on that awful feeling of sadness.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 09:59:37

I know it's crap isn't it?! How do you cope with this now handful? I am doing housework today but that is not a bad thing as I can get stuff done quickly without DS here. Am going out with the girls tonight, so have that to look forward to :-)

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 10:40:10

He turned up in signwritten car...I hate hate hate it. Worse, this was the project that got them back in touch again, which he finished off and during which he "fell in love" with her. I hope one day I get the opportunity to make him feel how I do, he might then understand. Tosser. :-(

LBZT Sat 05-Apr-14 14:12:06

mrsc don't worry there is something could karma or reaping what you sow, all this will come home to roast for him, but you don't want to be involved because you deserve a clear conscience. I know that sounds mad but it is true, far better that he gets whats coming without you involoved leaving you free to feel a peace that will never be his.
My DS sister had her nose broken by her than boyfriend, months later he had a bike accident and broke his leg, this was worst for him because he raced professionaly. I have always thought that he brought back to himself what he had done.
Don't worry about H he will get whats coming one way or the other and he has brought it all on himself you don't need to taint yourself with his sh*t.

LBZT Sat 05-Apr-14 14:13:17

I mean my sister not DS sister...what I am typing!

CookieDoughKid Sat 05-Apr-14 14:31:45

I'm just sad that your ex has turned out this way. He doesn't realise now but he will be regretful in the future. His actions are never forgotten and although my dh did pick up a relationship of a kind in his youth, he never ever forgot what his dad did to his mum. It is everlasting and children are very clever and aware. It has forever shadowed his relationship with his dad to the point that now, he doesn't have a relationship. Just because he is a dad Durant mean he is a good one or a decent one at that. Being a dad should be about setting examples of what a decent person should behave like. A role model. Much that you are on your own here. Don't ever give up. You need to show exemplary for your children. All the best.

CookieDoughKid Sat 05-Apr-14 14:32:44

Durant sorry I meant to say the word 'doesn't'!

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 16:14:46

LBZT..thank you, I know it's true, I do believe in karma. I just feel very hurt and angry today, I don't know why, I just do. I hate my son being with him, being all "wonderful daddy" when he left him, left us in a financial black hole and doesn't give a shit. It makes me sick. It feels like he's getting everything and I am left with nothing. It'll pass, it's just today. I am going out tonight, so that will be nice!

CookieDoughKid...Do you know, my husband has fought all his life with the after effects of his parents divorce, yet he has inflicted the same on his own son. I still can't believe he's on stepchild no. 7. I know that I will always be able to look my kids in the eye, STBXH will reap his just rewards eventually, son too young to understand now, but I know that their relationship will never be what it could have been if he had worked at and stuck with our marriage. Still, it can't have been that good in any event can it?

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 17:40:04

Lovely drop off by husband! Leaves 3 yo on step, with coat and bag on floor and bike covered in mud, knocks on door, jumps in car and drives off. What a wanker.

LBZT Sat 05-Apr-14 17:56:51

immature twat.. was your son OK with Dad running off?

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 18:02:14

He just watched him driving off. He has now been sick everywhere and complaining of sore tummy. I had the gall to text H to ask what he'd eaten today and he's got all shitty with me. Honestly, what an idiot. I just wanted to know. Probably just a nursery bug, but even so! It's funny isn't it, he covertly accuses me of leaving "marks" on son, but gets funny when I ask why he's throwing up!! I realise that his attitude is because OW is reading texts...!!!

LBZT Sat 05-Apr-14 18:08:44

maybe you should text OW to ask what he was fed if H won't answer you..

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 18:11:56

He has told me what he fed him but got all shitty about it. He has to be mean to me in front of her because "she needs to know he loves here the most"...*yawn*....

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 18:12:13

her...not here!!

LBZT Sat 05-Apr-14 18:13:29

there are a couple of fools...their "relationship" must be on rocky ground if it needs that sort of affirmation.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 05-Apr-14 18:15:32

I think she is very insecure, mainly because she is very unattractive. That is not a normal set up by any stretch of the imagination. What a mess he's got himself into there. All I can say is that I never checked up on him, gave him lists, gave his curfews or anything like it...maybe that's where I went wrong!

MrsC1969HJ Sun 06-Apr-14 10:42:59

So I had a really nice night out, a guy tried to chat me up but I think I put the barriers up a bit, crossed my arms, not good body language! I don't think I am ready to go down that road quite yet. My friend pulled him instead...which was good for her :-). I didn't mind. Had a very vivid dream about H last night where I overheard him tell somebody he wasn't with OW anymore...wish that were true. It's unsettled me and made me feel sad this morning. Mind you, I wouldn't want to be mucking that horse out in this weather :-)

growingolddicustingly Sun 06-Apr-14 11:59:31

MrsC there are some really excellent posts (particularly from AndreaApple) on this thread

Ask yourself and be totally honest with yourself when you reply : Hypothetically, so what if he is not with OW any more? What if he tries to come crawling back - he would have no roof over his head, no money etc? Would you take him back now knowing what he is like?

Mumsnet is very good at saying "when a man tells you what he is like, LISTEN!" He has told you, and he has told you in spades.

You are a loving, rational and reasonable human being but he is not. You deserve better than to be a wafe and stray rescue centre. He'll look at you with those puppy eyes and then proceed to piss up your curtains and bite you again.

You do not need him.

MrsC1969HJ Sun 06-Apr-14 12:57:26

Thanks for that growingold I will read that today!

In answer to your question, no I wouldn't/couldn't take him back. Indeed his own parents have said they will never forgive me if I do (!). There is no way back from this for us, I do know that.

HOWEVER, I do still love him, I miss him terribly, I know that is really pathetic but I can't help it. I do have to remind myself daily of what he has done to me. I think the truth is, I just don't want him to be with her. As far as as I concerned, she gave him a way out, in every way. She has done everything possible to break up my family, he was in a very bad place and weak and she made it all possible and then blamed it all on me. I cannot bear to have her round my child, she is a poisonous excuse for a human being and I will never forgive her for what she's done. Or him for that matter. I know that he isn't bright enough to have done half the things he's done, I know that some of the most evil texts he's sent me have been sent by her (mainly because he writes in code due to dyslexia and all these perfectly grammatical texts are not from him!) and still it sticks in my mind when he said if OW's husband hadn't been killed, he wouldn't have left me and if I hadn't have asked him to leave, we may have been able to work things out. I know that is a lie, I know it. It's putting the blame on me again, but I need to get my head round that!!

growingolddicustingly Sun 06-Apr-14 14:02:58

You need these lovely lady flowers.

AcrossthePond55 Sun 06-Apr-14 18:25:05

I told someone in a different but similar thread that the love you may still feel is separate from the current situation. You can love someone desperately but still make plans for the future and still move on. If you do that the love will resolve itself as you discover your new and happy life. So, right now just put that feeling in a mental closet in the back of your mind. Concentrate on the practicalities of day to day life, not 'what ifs' & 'should haves'. Those never do anyone any good.

MrsC1969HJ Sun 06-Apr-14 21:21:30

Growingold...thank you so much...I know I am a sad sap!! :-(

AcrossthePond55, thank you so much for pointing me over there...I am so grateful for all your support.

Today has been a bad day, my little one ended up in A&E after falling off his bike...everybody else was there with somebody, but it was just me and him, could have done with an extra hand...but I managed, as I have done with everything else with him. Nothing is simple with DS, he can't bear being touched, it's horrible. I wanted my H more than ever today. Texted him to say about A&E but it took him 2 hours to respond as he's off with tart....then had the nerve to advise me about helmets etc...fuck off you tosser...I know all of that. I hate him. I love him. Wish this would just go away :-(

springydaffs Mon 07-Apr-14 11:15:34

Love for him is not going to go away overnight. It's been chopped off with an axe sad . ime the love does die off. It takes a while but eventually it dies.

re I still feel shaky and sick to my stomach every time - I have been in a similar position recently, where someone at work, a line manager of sorts, was bullying me and each time I spoke to her I quaked inside. I was annoyed with myself and tried to work out why I was so frightened. She had power over me, particularly financially, and it was probably this that was at the root of the shaking (she got the sack btw. shame!). I think it's a primal thing tbh, we shake because we're under serious threat. You are, understandably, especially afraid of being hurt - and there he is, hurting you to the max [(((hug)))] - you are probably very afraid each time that he will hurt you more. He is being exceptionally cruel, it is no wonder you shake with feelings of tremendous hurt but also powerlessness. As you work on your case, get the relevant support, you will feel more empowered and the day will come when you don't shake but instead have to stop your lip curling in derision. Then when the love finally dies off you won't care one way or the other.

Clutterbugsmum Mon 07-Apr-14 12:52:54


Would he have come with you if he hadn't left, because everything you have written about your ds medical issues say the complete oppsite. You still would have coped alone as you have done on every occasion.

And you do because you can cope. Hope your ds isn't to badly injured and is feeling better today, as are you.

MrsC1969HJ Mon 07-Apr-14 21:38:29

Springdaffs Thank you so much for your usual insightful post. I've just had a bad day, one of those "they're getting away with it and laughing at me" days. I hate the shaking and anxiety. I know it will go away eventually but it just makes you feel ill doesn't it? I have decided to delay return to mediation until after the Easter holidays. I will have had another 3 counselling sessions by then and will hopefully feel a lot stronger. I took son to GP today who promised me 100% backing in the event of any attempts by H to gain custody. Didn't make me feel better though, I am just frightened about where this is all going to go :-(.

Clutterbugsmum...thanks for your post. He did initially come to appointments but cut off doing that when he left, I don't think he could bear to acknowledge the fact that he had left a child who has some additional needs, so ignored it. I have coped alone mostly with everything to be fair. The only thing he was good at was getting up in the night, he didn't mind doing that but it's irrelevant now as DS sleeps through anyway. He is fine thank you, minor abrasions and a sore finger! Didn't stop him whizzing round on bike today as happy as anything! :-)

springydaffs Tue 08-Apr-14 10:07:23

Oh MrsC, an assurance like that from a GP is worth its weight, it is very weighty. GPs are powerful - do take comfort from it.

I'm going to say, again: disengage. Not just verbally but internally. There are two of them and one of you, and they are vicious - you won't be able to compete. And, as you've found, appealling to them for humanity or common sense is useless. Try to drop out of the fight and let the process do its thing. I don't mean lay down and die and stop 'fighting' for what is right - of course you must carry on fighting in that sense - but behind the scenes, disengage personally iyswim. It's not easy, of course, but the alternative is appalling for you and, particularly, for your kids. Take each day as it comes and try not to project ahead, it does no good. You have a lot of clout on your side.

LavenderGreen14 Tue 08-Apr-14 10:10:23

and you have us lot on your side too thanks

Onmyownwith4kids Tue 08-Apr-14 11:59:44

Hope you're ok today x

MrsC1969HJ Tue 08-Apr-14 18:37:35

Springdaffs...I am trying really really hard to disengage. He is bored, isolated and lonely so is now trying to move goalposts with access, asking to see son yesterday and today, outside of his normal access which is tomorrow (which he has also asked to extend) citing "i just want to see him more". I have refused (short, concise and polite via text) as I feel that it is upsetting and confusing enough for DS and he has got exactly what he asked for on the statement of arrangements. He even asked me to "give valid reasons why not" if I refused. What a bloody cheek! He has screwed up my son's life enough, I have had to work VERY hard to keep him stable and am proud of the little boy he has turned into over the past six months, far less of the screaming, non-sleeping, head banging child he was prior to H leaving.

I have told the mediator that I will return to mediation after the Easter Hols. I have just had enough for now, I need a break from it all and will have had another 2 counselling sessions by then. Today's counselling was really good and helped me a lot. I wish I could lose the anger, hate and jealousy I feel, I know it's not productive, but all goes back to the fact that I am still being blamed for this and they won't take any responsiblity for their actions at all, "YOU made your husband leave, YOU are responsible". The counsellor said to me that she had never seen anybody treated like this, such depth of betrayal and unbelievable cruelty. That says a lot. She feels that I am being hard on myself for not feeling much better 6 months down the line, citing early days and a lot to come to terms with. She is lovely and I have a lot of faith in her. I do know that if my H doesn't do something like this too, has counselling, therapy or something, his life will just fall to bits eventually.

Onmyown...I am OK today thank you my darling, up and down like you but will get through! My counsellor said to me today "what exactly is it you miss about this man"...I couldn't actually think of anything mainly because she has made me see he was ALWAYS like this, he just hid it well. He did it all because he could and because he WANTED to. That's it at the end of the day! x

springydaffs Tue 08-Apr-14 19:00:40

I beg to differ about the hate, jealousy and anger being unproductive. It's part of the healing, the coming to terms. Who wouldn't be angry, jealous and full of hatred in circumstances like this? Your counsellor is right, it's only 6 months. I'd give it at least 2 years before you start to feel yourself coming back together. I know that sounds depressing but by 2 years the normal part of you starts to eclipse the mad part of you. In the meantime, let yourself be 'mad'. It's entirely appropriate imo - in fact, healthy.

Us wonderwomen eh. I heard the joke 'How do you know Jesus was a woman? She rose from the dead' - as we all know, us women regularly 'rise from the dead' for the sake of our kids. Not just physically but emotionally and mentally. Perhaps give yourself a slot during the day when the kids are in bed/elsewhere when you can let it all out. A baseball bat on the bed is a good one (but I suppose that would have to be when the kids are out as it makes a bit of a racket) - some people go kick-boxing etc. It's a good way to vent all your entirely appropriate hurt and rage. You're allowed to ROAR btw. You may be the ice maiden as far as shitface is concerned but what you do in private is your own business.

You do ignore any further texts he sends after your pithy 'no', yes? He's trying to drag you into a row (in order to play with you) so ignore him.

You're doing well, girl flowers

springydaffs Tue 08-Apr-14 19:05:41

When I say 'disengage' I mean disengage from them . Not disengage from yourself and the agonising process you're going through.

MrsC1969HJ Tue 08-Apr-14 19:09:53

Thanks springy...indeed I don't enter into any conversation at all if I can help it and am getting good at "ignoring". I need to get back to the gym, he stopped me doing that, that was my stress outlet. I was so fit, went every day, even throughout my whole pregnancy and now I'm just thin and unfit! I used to do body combat classes, that really is a stress outlet! Somebody told me to give yourself a month for every year you were together so I do know this is going to be a long haul. I am prepared for that and realise that I need time to heal. He, on the other hand, has yet again jumped from frying pan into fire (inferno this time it seems) with such amazing ease (!) with that lunatic. Maybe she will be the one to break his heart this time as he has left so many broken hearts and broken children in his wake. My mother in law thinks she will destroy him and it will be nothing less than he deserves. Yet I am STILL worrying about him!!! WHY?! :-(

Thanks so much for vote of confidence...SO appreciated :-) x

FoolishFay Tue 08-Apr-14 23:56:07

You're worrying about him because you're a good and decent person!

I was separated for a while last year (now reconciling) but went through a stage of disagreement about access for our 6 year old DD.

I took advice from a children's charity that basically said that whilst there was no court order in place, it was my decision as the resident parent about access. They advised me to be reasonable (which you obviously are!) so that I could justify any of my decisions if I later needed to. I found that advice extremely reassuring when DH was getting aerated and making wild threats about solicitors.

You are such a strong woman, I'm full of admiration for you. You and your children will be just fine.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 00:08:01

FoolishFay...thank you so much for your lovely post! I am so glad that you are managing to sort out your issues with your H. That makes a change being on these boards! There is no court order in place yet so that is good to know, I didn't know that actually and my solicitor has never said that. I have stuck by what he asked for and have been flexible to accommodate his work etc, but I will not have all of this "I want him today, longer tomorrow" thing. My son is 3, he needs consistency and routine and that's it. He is going to be damaged enough by what my H has done to us (as little as possible if I can help it). It hurts me so much to hear my son say "where's my daddy" on a daily basis, even six months on. However, I can't let him come and go as he pleases as it will just make things worse. Tomorrow I have to face reminding him that DS is not to be mixing with OW, her son or her family, as per an agreement with his solicitor...can see this being a problem as it is the school holidays. He will defy me anyway and son will tell me with his hands over his eyes. It's just disgusting, it really is. Anyway, am ranting again, thank you so much for your support and kind words! x

Onmyownwith4kids Wed 09-Apr-14 07:22:20

How frustrating to know he will defy common sense. Thank goodness your son has you to be the sane reliable parent in this. Just checking in to see how you are today. What did we do to deserve getting caught up in all this. You must be like me when I catch a glimpse of old photos and think life used to be normal. I never thought this would be my life. Hopefully this pain is a necessary evil on the way to a brand new and much better one. Thinking of you xx

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 09:39:12

Onmyown...I am fine thanks, just building up the usual anxiety for DS's contact this afternoon after nursery. I hate it. What I have done is put all things photo etc away. Everything. My H made me a beautiful box on our 10th anniversary when I was pregnant, had it printed with pictures of our wedding and filled it with keepsakes including miniature scan pictures of our DS and even a picture of the shop he bought my engagement ring in (this was the man who said he fell out of love with me two years after we married, how that hurt and how he has rewritten history). I have put everything in there and put it away. When I don't need to keep texts and emails anymore, all of that will go on a memory stick and into that box too. Then it will go away as part of my past. You should consider doing something similar when you are ready. No, we didn't deserve this, at all. I try and look on it as he has done me a favour to allow me to live a life I DO deserve, even if that feels a long way off at the moment. Thinking of you too :-) xx

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 12:42:42

FUCKING HELL, I am totally powerless. Politely asked H on pick up to ensure that DS is kept away from other child today and he said "we are taking him on the train to Cambridge today and there is nothing you can do about it, it's been six months"....while smirking in my face. I told him that he had no right to do that without discussing it with me first, allowing DS to call her parents grandma and granddad blah blah. I tried so hard to keep my cool but am now in floods. Why are they allowed to just fuck up my entire life, break me, screw me over in every way and are then allowed to just go and have lovely afternoons out with my son?! I am just fucking sick of it....

mistlethrush Wed 09-Apr-14 12:47:56

I'm afraid that he is allowed to do that. Its really crap. However, the fact that you have specifically asked him not to do it means that he is relishing the fact that he's doing it and is rubbing your face in it and feeling as though he's 'won'. To stop that you must lower your expectations of his behaviour as low as possible - if there's something he can do that will hurt you, he will do it. You can't be further disappointed if you think like that.

Re OW's parents - you could have a discussion with your 3 yo - and explain that he has two sets of GPS - STBEXH's parents and your parents - and that OW's parents are not GPs at all. And you could possibly come up with something between you to call them - like OW's Daddy and OW's mummy or similar.

LBZT Wed 09-Apr-14 12:50:42

oh mrsc breathe, calm down, have a cup of tea, maybe go for a walk it's a lovely day. The ONLY power this man has over you is what you allow if you don't react do not let it get to you he has no power.
Now what does your solictor say about his contact with these people?
Do you believe that they are causing harm or confusion to your son?

If so what can you do about it, think logically what tools do you have on your side that can address this.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 13:18:34

I have a letter from his own solicitor stating that DS will not be involved with OW and her family at this stage. This was directly as a result of her abusive emails towards me and the antagonism and threats. So, how is he allowed to do this?

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 14:54:24

Right, have calmed somewhat. Sent an email stating calmly that he had agreed to certain conditions while we were going through mediation and until we could come to an agreement regarding access etc and that this has been confirmed in writing by his own solicitor. He has backed down somewhat, is on his own with DS. Was clearly trying to wind me up. I do realise and understand that I need to come to terms with this situation but I do not think that OW is appropriate to be around my son. Bear in mind she cared so much about her own son's emotional welfare that she moved my husband in within 6 months of her husband's death. Then wrote to me stating that she "wasn't about to unsettle her son's life further"...while living with my husband and pretending otherwise. If she doesn't give a damn about her own child's emotional welfare, she isn't going to give a damn about mine. To her, he is a weapon, nothing more. She dismissed my daughter out of hand as "surely the concern of her own father, nothing to do with us"....this was after writing to tell me that "should my friendship with X mature in the future, I promise I will always d right by you and your CHILDREN" (again while living with husband but pretending otherwise). Absolutely without any moral compass whatsoever, let alone the ability to write such things just to cover her own back (personality disorder of some sort?). It all needs discussing and bringing into the open and this will be the first subject I address at mediation in 2 weeks time. I would be surprised if this "relationship" lasts the course, I might be wrong of course, but in the meantime the involvement of my little boy with his funny ways with this woman is just not acceptable. H is currently emailing me lovely pictures of son playing. What is going on in his head?! :-(

Onmyownwith4kids Wed 09-Apr-14 15:13:01

Your husband and mine need to get together..maybe a foursome with them and their other women..they sound like they have a lot in common and would make great friends..You poor, poor thing this must be an absolutel nightmare..I know exactly how you feel..Horrible letting these vile individuals get involved in the children's lives..Hope you're OK xxx

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 15:21:54

God isn't it awful! Have replied to your thread, hope you're feeling a bit stronger now. I know it will have to happen, but not yet, not after what she's put me through. There has to be boundaries especially given my son's autism assessment. They have to accept that and abide by my guidance...not do what the hell they please and hang the consequences. If you saw some of the Google reviews of her business, you'd not want your kids near her either. She once squared up to a friend of mine and told her "to fuck off back to her own country" in front of friend's 4 year old son..because friend complained about something. This was before she was involved with my H, but even so. Nasty. Have ALL your kids met the OW yet? xx

Onmyownwith4kids Wed 09-Apr-14 15:26:34

She sounds a right charmer...It's only a matter of time before my kids meet the OW..Have decided to be philospohical about it..I'm dreading it but am just going to have to let them get on with it..sounds like your husband has made a right mess of his life, just a shame you and your son have to be dragged into it xxx

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 15:28:45

Have you taken legal advice yet? How long as it been? Even H's solicitor advised a minimum of 6 months depending on circumstances and frankly, if he is still coming back and telling you he loves you, I would be loathe to let them be involved at all, he doesn't know if he's coming or going, so they get used to her, it all goes tits up and then what?!

AcrossthePond55 Wed 09-Apr-14 17:50:38

MrsC- if you have't started one, you need to start an access diary. Start by detailing your informal agreement re visits & no-contact agreement with OW. Then keep track of every contact, be it an access visit or Dr's appointment, & anything DS has to say about them & his reactions when STBX drops off or leaves. Details re his demands for change, what you decided & why and his reactions. Jot down every conversation. You can be sure these things will come up in mediation & court proceedings. Even though he & OW will surely deny what's detailed, at least you will have an orderly record. Just do remember to keep all entries unemotional & factual.

And keep copies of every scrap of paper, texts, etc, that pass between you!

God I hate it when evil people use innocent children to hurt their spouse. And it always seems that it's the guilty party doing it to justify their bad behaviour.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 21:48:36

AcrossthePond thank you, yes I will do that, although I do keep absolutely everything without fail. I will do an actual diary. Do you know, I have no wish to keep my son away from his father, however lacking he is. However, this whole "creating a new family" thing is not going to happen. I have now involved professionals and will await my meeting at the end of the month. So, my next post will be about today's exchange...!

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 21:56:07

Evening all, I know that exchanges are not advised in situations like this but I was completely backed into a corner today so decided to send the following via email to my H while he had DS, I hope factual and calm enough but also very clear :

To H

From my solicitor : If it is the case that if His not prepared to abide by the written agreement that *OW is not involved at this stage then contact will need to return to a supervised environment at the contact centre where the identity of the parties present is monitored*

You are ignoring a written agreement from your own Solicitor to not involve your latest "new" family at this stage. If it has been "six months" then you have lied to me about when your relationship started, which you have anyway, that much is now clearly obvious. Your e-mail to me on 7 November stated that you had been in a relationship for two weeks. That would be since 24 October 2013. It is currently 9 April 2014. I believe you were advised that it was a "minimum of 6 months depending on the circumstances" (confirmed advice from his solicitor*). I would suggest the circumstances dictate that you keep *OW away from my son given the antagonism and abuse directed by her towards me. The agreement was drawn up as a DIRECT RESULT of her emails which she sent without being in possession of the full facts. OW is not an appropriate person to be around my son at this time and you are pushing very serious boundaries by allowing DS to call her parents "Grandma and Granddad". They are not, and never will be his Grandparents. He has biological Grandparents of his own and as a father, you have a duty and responsibility to explain that to him. You cannot create a new "happy family" from the destruction of the one you left behind. What you do with your life is entirely up to you. However, it is me who picks up the pieces of the confusion suffered by DS in this dreadful situation.

I would suggest you take further advice from your own solicitor in this regard and I suggest we discuss this openly in mediation and try to reach some sort of agreement. I do not want to return to the contact centre, I will avoid this at all costs. However, I ask you to understand and respect my wishes at this time and certainly while we do not have a proper agreement on how to proceed.

So, he has agreed to speak to his solicitor and I am hoping that we can come to some agreement via mediation. He then started sending me pictures of son playing, I think I mentioned that upthread, it's just odd. I imagine there's a bit of "this is your fault, if you hadn't sent those emails" in the lovenest tonight! I think I did the right thing under the circumstances but all advice gratefully received as usual! :-)

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 21:59:52

Sorry, all my "bolds" went awry there..not sure why!!

LBZT Wed 09-Apr-14 22:33:54

my opinion is the e-mails with pictures were bribery to keep you sweet as your e-mail may have shit him up a bit. I guess he also wants to avoid the contact center. Personally and this is me I would now insist on it until you have a formal arrangement drawn up and he has gone back on his word and sorry but he will again, I wouldn't trust him.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 22:58:42

LBZT...he didn't take son out with OW today. I think the mere mention of the contact centre was enough to be honest. I have to say, I don't want DS to go back wasn't that they weren't really kind, it was the closed in environment and the fact they have to remove the child from you (causing additional distress) to take to the other parent and then do it again to return them to you. It is so stressful for my son. I don't trust him, he knows that, he also knows that DS speaks. So, I am hoping that this will be enough for him to abide by the arrangement until we can draw up a formal agreement. I have two senior health visitors coming out to see me because of DS's assessments. They know about this situation and are going to assist and advise. I wonder if he actually processes that his precious OW's behaviour has caused this?!

LBZT Wed 09-Apr-14 23:20:44

You could be right you know him and how he thinks. I know your not supposed to contact him but I did like your e-mail I thought is was very to the point and professional like you will not be walked over. E-mails like that once in a blue moon have more affect that lots of little texts/e-mails. Try not to e-mail him unless you have a couple of issues that you need to raise and if possible delay sending them for a couple of days. Do you have a special e-mail account to use just for him. What about a mobile just for him so you can switch it off unless he has your DS. I guess it's creating bounderies but I'm no expert others may have lots more to offer.

MrsC1969HJ Wed 09-Apr-14 23:44:17

LBZT thanks again for your insightful post. I did feel that I had no choice but to send that as it really was a critical situation, other than that, I don't do it and ignore any he sends. He has a separate email account, well it's one I use for divorce, mediation and solicitor. I have another for friends/family. He only texts rarely, this is because she reads the texts as her phone is hooked to his via i-cloud (how trusting that relationship is!). Funny that his emails are normally quite "polite" but texts are blunt to the point of rudeness. This is because she can't bear us having any relationship at all due to her jealousy issues. Well she's got 15 years of that yet, so had better get used to it!!

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 00:16:50

I need to post this as I am going to end up talking to myself!! What sort of man leaves his son at the beginning of assessment for autism and leaves his stepdaughter of 14 years at the beginning of her GCSE's? My daughter is a total nightmare at the moment because of him, it has affected her deeply. He hasn't once asked how she is, tried to contact her or done anything, what he did was cut off her mobile phone which was her birthday present..."she wants nothing to do with me, why should I pay for her mobile"....! All he was interested in was him, what he wanted, how he needed to feel "special", how his needs were met. Everybody else could go screw themselves. What a totally worthless oxygen thief. Thanks, I just needed to get that out angry

mistlethrush Thu 10-Apr-14 07:15:31

MrsC - at least you now know his true colours! It is awful to do this to your daughter as well as your son.

I think that your email was very good - it didn't sound dramatic, over emotional and clearly stated the facts and consequences. The occasional one to address specific, significant issues is I think perfectly reasonable. Just make sure that you try to keep anything of your dislike for OW out of it as much as possible! (I think what you put was fine because it relates to what she did to you)

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 09:27:12

mistlethrush, I know it's shocking. I do wonder what goes through her head. She had a lot of issues last year, not least the diagnosis of anorexia. She's had a tough time. When he left, she was staying over at a friends house, when I picked her up I said I had something to tell her and she said "I already know, he's left hasn't he?". To my horror, he had text her when she was at school four days previously and said "if I leave your Mum would you still see me". She didn't say a word, didn't know what to do. I wish she had, I might have been able to do something about it all, but I have never said that to her. I still can't believe he put her in that position, a vulnerable child. Makes my blood boil!

Regarding e-mail, I just had to state facts and he needs to accept that the reason he's in this position is because of his wonderful OW!!! She has done nothing but make this situation more difficult, more complicated, mainly because she is so nasty, jealous and manipulative. I wish he'd come to his senses and get rid of her, I really do.

LBZT Thu 10-Apr-14 09:41:34

Oh mrsc your poor daughter is she getting the help she needs? Does she have contact with H's extended family.
As for OW it will eventually implode for all sorts of reasons but clearly this is not a relationship built to stand the distance. However you should be prepared for it to last possibly even a few years. The best thing to do is remove you as much as possible from the dynamic as that he what is keeping them together, it's making me think of teenagers!!! How sad is that. Worse still even if they spilt you still have to deal with H so the arrangements you make must be able to weather any storm that goes off in his life as best you can. I hope you have a good day today.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 09:58:32

LBZT, thank you :-). Yes she is getting the help she needs and thankfully as H's family are supporting us 100% she has plenty of people around her. We really have had a rough time of it!! Regarding H & OW, I have no idea. Like I said, he is completely dependent on her in many ways and she will cling like a limpet but the background is so unhealthy isn't it? At some point I would have thought that her husband's death will catch up with her. I will never understand why H didn't get his own place, build a relationship with son as a separated Dad, allow his "new" relationship to grow at a more reasonable pace rather than this whole charade they have created. It's a relationship based on lies, devastation and lack of trust, so good luck to them!

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 16:27:02

Hello ladies, after the drama of yesterday and threats of "taking me court" etc to get more access, I have received this from H. How do I respond? Do I respond? Feel like I should just say "we will discuss at mediation".

will you allow me more access to see DS, the time on wednesday is just not long enough but perhaps can see him on mondays as well. but happy to work around you. the gap between visits is to long, i just want to spend more time with him 9 hours a week is just not enough. as much as you hate me please allow me to have more time with DS

Now, bear in mind that when he filled in the Statement of Arrangements he asked for 2 hours on a Weds afternoon and all day Sat. That was all and I agreed. Of course at that point, they were all over eachother and he did it because it didn't interfere with them in my opinion (she works on a Saturday for starters so gives him something to do). Now he isn't working (properly) and she's got him tied to the house, he obviously has more time to think about things. So, any thoughts?

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 16:28:04

Oh and she DOESN'T work on a Monday...given my email to him yesterday, I can't believe he's asking to see him when she's at home. He clearly doesn't realise I know that!!! Her shops are shut on a Monday!

LBZT Thu 10-Apr-14 16:41:04

I don't understand access, but surely access is to be sorted out in mediation, why would he try and make further requests outside of that process. I think that should be your first response but not immediately you have no obligation to respond to this any time soon.

On a plus note now you have an idea of what he going to ask for and can come up with a plan yourself. I understand that you should be making access available but as you have an idea that he is going after more contact possible custody isn't it time that DS needs more set up in the week playgroups etc that make making new access available awkward! Plus I always thought the norm was every other weekend and i day mid week. You seem to provide more than that. Lots to think on, again do not rush to respond think of it from all angles and see what others say and ask for some legal advice on it as well. Take your time there is no rush. Others may say that is wrong again I am no expert. Just my opinion.

mistlethrush Thu 10-Apr-14 16:50:23

If you originally had Weds and Sat, and he now wants another evening, you could suggest Tuesday and Thursday - which gets around the monday problem - but you might want to leave that until mediation. If he really wants more contact with DS he would jump and this and not care that its not a Monday.

I suggest that you indicate, in a short way that you will stick with the current situation until you have been able to discuss it during your next session of mediation.

Is there any reason for him not working at all?

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 17:08:27

Thanks ladies, I think I will wait and respond tomorrow and say we will leave it til mediation. He doesn't work because she doesn't want him to...he gets a weekly allowance instead. I know, I know..! He has a maintenance contract that he has to do but that takes only one day a week. She is paying maintenance when he has no income apparently. Desperate do you think?! :-D

LBZT Thu 10-Apr-14 17:13:49

I wouldn't I'd tell him on sat thanks for the e-mail it's on my to do list to respond to and then reply on sunday. But I can be a bit cheeky!!

MrsC1969HJ Thu 10-Apr-14 17:17:59

Ha ha LBZT...I might take your advice on that...:-) x

AcrossthePond55 Thu 10-Apr-14 19:29:47

I agree. Short email "We can discuss this during our upcoming mediation session". I notice that he had to throw in his 'if you don't give me what I want it's because you hate me' bullshit. Nothing like trying to make you look like the stereotypical shrew while he tries to look like the desperate father denied his son, is there?


Astonway Thu 10-Apr-14 19:52:51

All I would add is that time chugs on and it will resolve and pass into your past. It will not be like this for a significant portion of your life but it will make a mark of course.
Keep on trying to stay in the right by not sinking to their level - so your children can see what sort of person you are. emails are poignant but they are also a history that we never had before - and one you can write!
I would urge you to try mindfulness - with or without the meditation and yoga aspects. Like Edna Mode in The Incredibles it helps you to be 'in the now' and stand proud on your island looking up and not be swallowed up by the flood!
Finally on practical and financial matters the CAB are in my experience wonderful! This blessed corp of people have seen it all and can help you for free.
Now, look into your DCs' eyes and give them a warm smile - and watch a film that will have you all in gales of laughter - the Court Jester, the Paleface, Airplane, Marx Brothers and of course Laurel & Hardy are all my children's favourites!
Oh and the person who you loved and married is not the same any more - he has in effect died for you and you will be bereaved in a very real sense. Be gentle with yourself. Very best wishes.

springydaffs Thu 10-Apr-14 20:32:10

Lovely post Astonway smile

Actually, all lovely posts - you've a heck of a lot of support here MrsC flowers

Agree with 55's 'putz' conclusion. Lowdown shit about the poor, deprived father and the witholding mother. Take no notice. Really, take no notice at all. The only reason you're twisted like a pretzel is because you want to be fair re the kids. Otherwise you'd have told him to piss off for good and would block him on every front. He's trying the whole range of emotional manipulations/torture. Take no notice.

Re DS - re his diagnosis, one of my kids is loosely on the spectrum and she found the toing and froing between my house and her dad's house very difficult indeed. I imagine DS would find it much harder that my daughter. Add to this the toxic environment DS is being introduced into with Hubble and Bubble: I think it would be appropriate that DS's exposure to them is limited further rather than augmented. You could successfully argue for that re DS's diagnosis. I can't remember if in the past DS has seen his dad at a contact centre?? I can't help thinking that a contact centre would be much more appropriate in light of 1. DS's dx and 2. H's toxic behaviour. Imo H should be watched like a hawk during any interaction with DS.

So many women twist themselves into impossible shapes for fear they will look like the evil witholding mother if they don't - when, in fact, the ex is toxic through and through and - this is my strong opinion, bourne from experience - it is sometimes better for the kids to have no relationship with the toxic parent than to be used as a pawn in a toxic game to destabilise and torture the mother.

Crap english but I hope you get my drift.

springydaffs Thu 10-Apr-14 20:42:03

When I say 'successfully argue' I don't mean successfully argue with H - no argument with H would be successful tbf - but argue the point legally, not directly with H.

MrsC1969HJ Fri 11-Apr-14 09:34:33

AcrossthePond...yes, that is what i'll do. It's funny isn't it, still playing the "poor me" card, we seem to have hit that six month point I have read about so often where they seem to start behaving a bit pitifully (creeping regret maybe?). Who knows? I won't rise to it though :-).

Astonway Thank you for your lovely, kind and inspiring post. I will take your sound advice. I am getting a tiny bit better by the day, the rollercoaster continues, but I am gaining strength. Indeed, the H I "knew" has gone, to be replaced by a stranger with so many many issues that I doubt he will ever have a stable relationship. I pity him in many ways. However, I know that my DC will remain safe and loved by me :-).

Springy...I do indeed have amazing support on here and will be eternally grateful! I don't take any notice of him anymore, he and his OW have demonstrated their lack of emotional stability in relation to both children (by which I mean her son and mine, let alone the complete dismissal of the needs of my daughter who is suffering too). I am seeking all the help I can with this and will have further professional advice prior to our next mediation which I hope will demonstrate to my H that he can't just swan back and forth causing upset and disruption to my DS (who is fine between visits, it's the visits that cause the distress when he has to come home, of course H doesn't see all of that does he?). I will do whatever I have to for my DS, I don't give a damn what H and OW think! Thank you again for your ongoing support :-).

MrsC1969HJ Fri 11-Apr-14 23:01:53

So after yesterday's pathetic email asking for more access as the 9 hours he originally asked for "isn't enough", I have a conundrum. OW has a business page on FB. She has started to be "clever" (she thinks) and rather than post as admin on her own page, she has started to post from her personal FB page as she thinks I can't see them as she blocked me. Obviously I have a fake FB page so I can see her posts anyway. Have discovered that shop is shut on Wednesday as she announced it which is H's midweek access day so I am not waiting for him to ask me to have DS for the day with some pathetic excuse about how much he misses him etc. Thinking I will preempt this and say I need to change access to Tuesday as we have another invitation for Wednesday. My mother in law says I cannot let onto them that I know shop is shut or I will look like a stalker (to be fair, I am) and it will also make me look like I am changing access on purpose. She's right I guess. He is now also asking for Monday's. OW doesn't work on a Monday either, so shop is shut. The problem is they are both SO thick. DS speaks, he will tell me. H is trying to introduce her by stealth even though we have this solicitors agreement. WTF is wrong with these two?! I hate them :-(

AcrossthePond55 Sat 12-Apr-14 01:46:56

I think right now it's important to keep the access to her fb page. You never know what you might discover. I think the plan to change the day is a good one. If he wants another day, why not Tuesday & Thursday? Two days spread thru the week.

I wouldn't put it past those two to tell DS to lie to you which will put him in a terrible position. He isn't old enough to totally understand, put he is old enough to feel 'in the middle' even if he doesn't know exactly why. And old enough to feel the burden of 'let's not tell mummy,ok? We don't want to make her angry at daddy, do we?'

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 09:36:52

I know, it's awful isn't it? Yesterday we saw a car when I was grocery shopping and he said "granddad's car"...I then realised DS was talking about OW's father. I stopped and explained that DS has two granddad's and one nanna and the person who had a car like that was not his granddad. I am not sure how much he took in, but I tried to explain as best I could. I have also had him saying OW's name and putting his hands over his eyes and shouting "no". It makes me think they are saying "don't tell Mummy", it's just disgusting. They have completely ignored the agreement and she is so emotionally abusive I don't want her to have contact. This morning DS has been asking "do you love my Daddy", I just said "you love him, don't you" just tried to reverse it. It breaks my heart :-(. I will change access to Tuesday, he can then go off with her and whatever she's doing on Wednesday with no underhand involvement of my DS.

Flux700 Sat 12-Apr-14 10:38:42

You are being so strong!

Great idea to suggest you discuss contact in mediation. Also I would add that you are pleased he has recently taken more interest in his son. (to acknowledge in a roundabout way tat he hasn't previously). And state that contact is presently at the level he requested formally with solicitor.

Also on another note. In your original post you mentioned that your son was due to be assessed for ASD. ASD is mostly genetic, so it is possible that one of your sons relatives have ASD (possibly to a lesser extent?). I'm wondering if your DH's struggle to empathise could be a result of ASD?

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 10:54:47

Flux700, thanks so much for your post, my H has issues without a doubt. I suspect my son is actually Aspergic and his father is the same. We have a long way to go with assessment but I truly believe my H has some sort of spectrum disorder. At 42 though, I am not sure he will ever seek help or even get it. I have mentioned it to our GP who said at his age there is very little to be done.

I agree with what you say about mediation and acknowledgement. The only thing is I know that his "increased interest" is because I believe he is going to make an application for custody. I also think that the access he asked for at that time was because it suited him while they were all "loved up" and in the first flush. Now of course things have changed somewhat, OW has got him tied to the house and under surveillance, he is barely working, has no friends and is probably bored to tears. She can't really argue with him seeing his son can she? It's funny how it's suddenly "not enough" but at the same token and throughout all of this I have had to work VERY hard to keep my son on a level since his father left and will not allow him to disrupt the routine we have just because it suits him. Even minor changes unsettle my son completely, a symptom of his possible spectrum disorder, hence why I am seeking professional advice...and using a different angle to legal advice as they unfortunately don't go hand in hand!!

LBZT Sat 12-Apr-14 11:08:57

mrsc i see a little problem here what if H and ow are saying stuff to your son and leading him to say things against you that they will try and use in court. What if they are filming this??? Your son is clearly distressed by what is happening and you don't know what is being said etc. Why can't you go back to the contact center you say DS was distressed by that and it worried you but think about this that you knew what was worrying him you are now dealing with something that you don't really know anything about his distress can not be properly played out because he is being told to hold back, either is bad but at least with the contact center you have some control.
The other thing is why are you going against legal advice will that not bite you in the back at a later date?
I am still worried that you are giving to much away you are behaving reasonably and they are not. You have to be really careful and I'm worried that you are looking at the short term pain of your son instead of considering the long term for him. Remember they will lie and lie they do not care about you they are out to win. Please tread carefully.

LBZT Sat 12-Apr-14 11:16:27

Also just to add I know this goes against normal advice but I think your case is unique. Where is the hurt in changing AT THE LAST MINUTE contact times for H. As in on saturday you have a family party to attend so he has to pick him up later or you offer say tuesday instead or soemthign has come up on weds so offer thursday only do this 24 hours in advance. I know I know not nice but it means the plans they are making with your DS and ow will struggle .I get it's not good but you have a life and as long as you are reasonable about offering other dates. Stomach bugs come at the last minute as well it can't always be helped. It's bitchy I get it but I think that it will make their secret plans more difficult to play out. Maybe think about it and use it on occasion when you are really worried about a contact day

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 11:18:17

LBZT, obviously I have no idea what goes on when H has DS in his care. I do think that largely he doesn't see OW, she works on a Saturday, her busiest day, but I do think H drops in there with DS every now and again. He clearly talks to DS about her. Remember my son has only just turned 3 so his understanding is very limited. I am not sure how far he could be infuenced to say things at this stage. He hasn't mentioned her son in a long while so I believe he is being kept out of the picture. It may be we have to return to the contact centre, I am looking at all options at the moment.

I don't understand where I am going against legal advice or giving too much away? I don't tell him anything or have any conversations with him at all. I don't know if you misunderstood my comment about seeking professional was alongside legal, unfortunately they are different. As the law stands, I can't legally stop my DS being involved with OW. However, because DS is currently being assessed for autistic spectrum disorder, I may be able to receive back up from that point of view from his statementing team. It is very clear from her emails etc that she has no interest in my son whatsoever, just as a means to get to me. On that basis, I am hoping to seek a recommendation that she is kept out of his life. Legally, H won't have to comply, BUT if he doesn't, we will be back to the contact centre and he can make an application to court and I will then have all my evidence to hand.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 11:19:11

LBZT re : your second post...excellent plan and will be implemented ;-) Thank you! :-)

LBZT Sat 12-Apr-14 11:32:33

sorry mrsc I though I read that you were not following legal advice up thread and now when I read back I can't see your comment??? It's me clearly getting confused when reading I am very tired this morning. Bad night.

I think when I say you give to much away what I mean is that you are all reason and dealing with this properly. Your H isn't he's been awful to you and I admire that you are still dealing with him so well. I just get the feeling that you are almost too reasonable but I guess that is me projecting myself a bit here. I was in a EA relationship years ago and now I don't stand for any crap I have possibly gone from one extreme to the other! Sorry. I will be more careful when I post in future not to project myself into your situation, it will be a good lesson for me. grin

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 11:41:16

No no, please don't apologise LBZT, I cannot tell you how useful everybody's input is! I don't know what I would do without you all. What I meant is that I am just trying a two pronged approach as it and medical. It's such a nightmare, it really is. I am going to change access next week, I will tell him he will have to be flexible over the holidays as I have the kids off. He can take it or leave it as far as I am concerned. What I am trying to do is be whiter than white so he can't accuse me of anything, so I am seen to be being reasonable etc. If this does come to court, I need to be able to show that I have behaved properly...and that he hasn't.

I hope you have a better night tonight, nothing worse than feeling so exhausted. I would recommend some wine. Mind you, I recommend that for everything. A cure all! thanks

FoxInTheDesert Sat 12-Apr-14 11:55:35

OP, I have been lurking on this thread since you first posted, and I have to say I admire your strength. Your DS is blessed to have you and I erally hope things will get better for you. That man is absolutely horrible as is the OW.

I am wondering though, with you sharing this on MN, are you sure this could not possible used against you when found out? Especially the email part you have shared.

I understand you need the support- I think anyone would in this situation, an as I said I think you're amazing!- but I would be cautious. If the OW would find out, being as vindictive as she is, I can imagine she using this against you in any court case that would come up.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 12:05:38

FoxInTheDesert, thank you for your post. You are right of course, it could be found out and may well have been. However, everything I have said is factual and I can back up entirely. I have no issues with sharing the situation, I wish I had earlier as it has been an amazing support for me, especially emotionally. It has also made me see that I am doing all the right things for my kids in the face of huge adversity. Anybody else have any thoughts on this?!

LBZT Sat 12-Apr-14 12:12:59

maybe this thread could be deleted it would be awful if it was used against you. I am thinking of the comment your H made about ow building a harresment case against you, wondering what was said about ow on here now?? You can always start another one keep the advice from this one and garner new advice on another thread there will be plenty on here that will post on any new thread of yours.

springydaffs Sat 12-Apr-14 12:37:31

I'm shuddering a bit at H's family knowing the minutiae about what you're doing. Go carefully, lovely. He is their son.

You're not stalking btw, this is a war and it's serious. Any and every means!

Yes they are THICK. Does ds have a social worker? Get the covering eyes/No! thing officially documented - record it in your diary of course. Move quickly, don't wait.

springydaffs Sat 12-Apr-14 12:39:08

If you do delete this thread, keep it saved somewhere as a diary of events.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 12:42:25

Springydaffs, H's husband are right behind me 100%, they have cut off contact with him completely as they felt they couldn't support him with how he has behaved, both morally and emotionally. I don't know what I would have done without them. They are amazing in every way. H has told me never to mention their names again and says he will be one less person standing at their graves. Charming indeed. I think he will regret that in years to come and I do worry that that is concerning regarding his state of mind.

DS is under a child development centre. I know, that does upset me. He doesn't refer to it often, but has done it a few times, and my daughter has seen him do it too.

I am now worried about thread being up...well not worried as everything I have said is true and can be supported. Not sure what to do about that!

springydaffs Sat 12-Apr-14 12:50:05

Press 'report' button at far right of your original post at the top of your thread - ask them to delete the thread because of serious legal implications. You could post in a far-off corner of MN which is safer, more hidden.

Pimpf Sat 12-Apr-14 16:07:12

What a pair of absolute fucking shitheads.

It will come back and bite them in the arse, I'm only sorry that you and your children are having to deal with this shit right now

Pimpf Sat 12-Apr-14 16:07:44

Could the thread be moved to that other area so less visible?

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 21:22:38

Pimpf....thank you, that's a lovely description, perfect, thank you! :-). I am leaving it where it is for now, the thread that is, I have nothing to hide and everything supportable as well they know.

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 22:29:43

Feeling very tearful tonight. Not sure why, maybe to do with reading a thread about a woman who has just lost her 3 year old DD suddenly. Puts things into perspective and makes you feel a bit ridiculous for grieving over a man who has treated you like shit. That's not real grief. Should be grateful that my DS is tucked up in bed, sleeping peacefully...and I am. I just wish we had a family again. DD out tonight at a sleepover. OW has cut his hair, she's a hairdresser, but she doesn't do it "properly". Need to get a bloody grip. Why should I care about his hair?! He stood on drive today talking to neighbour about his new car, just stuff he used to do normally. Why do these little things get to you so much? When will I feel better, it's nearly half a year yet I still feel like it was yesterday :-(

springydaffs Sat 12-Apr-14 23:12:58

erm it's only 6 months! That's no time at all. Love, you hold up the healing if you insist on pushing it through. Grief takes its time - thorough like that - and you can't push it with force of will. And grief it is, even if it is not grief because someone has died. Something very, very important has died (and you've been tortured half to death by a sociopath) so, really, give it time. Have a good cry lovely xx (that was me yesterday, in absolute bits - not sure 'why' (though it's obvious why!) - and it's been 3 years since my terrible loss)

MrsC1969HJ Sat 12-Apr-14 23:32:22

Springy there are no words to reply to your post. Thinking of you...thank you! xxx

AcrossthePond55 Sat 12-Apr-14 23:40:49

springy is right. You have suffered a loss and have a right to grieve. Death is one kind of loss. Divorce is a different kind. Both cause pain, grief, anger, and profound sorrow. While I agree that there can be nothing to equal the loss of a child, the loss of your dreams, family, & future has got to be considered one of life's greatest losses. Especially because you still have to deal with the people who caused it!

Don't be critical of yourself, my love, you are worthy of happiness. Cry your tears when you need to! But always remember that, even now, you have more reasons for joy (your DCs, your health, your lovely family-in-law) than you have for sorrow.

MrsC1969HJ Sun 13-Apr-14 10:39:49

AcrossthePond55..thank you for your lovely post. I am trying to be positive, I think it's just the ebbs and flows of this situation and I feel so sad that I have lost 6 months of my life that has been filled with nothing but stress, pain and grief and I will never get it back. All due to the utter mindblowing selfishness of those two. I don't think I will ever get my head around that unfortunately.

AcrossthePond55 Sun 13-Apr-14 14:25:20

No, I'm sure you won't. But I always comforted myself with the thought that the reason I couldn't get my head round things like that was because I am too good to understand such evil. May sound a bit smug, but it helped.

I remember times that I would just cry & pray that I could just turn my feelings off, even for a bit, to give me a moment's peace. Just 5 minutes of numbness, I used to say! But life doesn't work that way, does it? But eventually I came to see that the times of peace & happiness were starting to outweigh the times of pain & anger. It'll happen for you, too, probably when you least expect it.

springydaffs Sun 13-Apr-14 14:56:07

It may be small comfort at the moment but you have been initiated into a world that an awful lot of people inhabit: an exquisitely human world of pain and loss and abuse, injustice etc. It does equip one to come alongside people who are suffering, with real understanding of the type of thing they're going through. It's certainly been an enormous help and solice to me when people have come alongside who just know what it's like, don't offer platitudes (or panic and bugger off, unable to cope hmm ), but are able to just sit with me in the horror. It's also (and you'll probably want to smack me one here) almost a gift to realise we're not in control of everything. It makes for a much more peaceful life in the long run. You'll miss it lovely if you scrabble to get back control - so you've lost 6 months? Nelson Mandela 'lost' 26 years, was it, and look what he went on to do. You just never know what's ahead.

springydaffs Sun 13-Apr-14 15:05:23

and not only that, you'll find out there isn't an i in solace (<<not profound) blush

Pimpf Sun 13-Apr-14 20:42:39

Would you say someone should no longer be upset if their husband died 6 months ago? No. The man you knew as you husband did, it is that you are grieving for, not the man himself. Give yourself time, 6 months is not a long time.

Pimpf Sun 13-Apr-14 20:44:11

And the hair thing, you know she's done that specifically to wind you up, it would have made me furious, but don't let her know, keep it in your record of where your dick of an ex agreed that he would not introduce her to your son and he clearly has done. Use it against them

LBZT Sun 13-Apr-14 20:57:33

hello mrsc the hair cut was just done to wind you up, very poor behaviour on her part.. ignore it. Now I am afraid I going to have an immature moment here...once your son returns to school in a couple of weeks he gets head lice, what a pain they are to treat so he ends up with a grade 2 or 3 as the shampoo just wasn't cutting it! grin I'm sorry I'm no good at rising above things.
I'm sorry to hear you've been feeling down. I hope you've had a better day today. I agree with others 6 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things the good news is you won't always be in this place and your life will move forward, and each day is another step towards being in a better place.

MrsC1969HJ Sun 13-Apr-14 21:47:57

Hi all, I should just point out, OW has NOT cut my son's hair. If that happened, it would the last thing she did. I would hope she wouldn't dream of doing that, I can assure you that all hell would break loose. No, she cut H's hair, it looks all wrong. Mind you, son will no doubt get nits before long with his lovely mop, my daughter had them terribly for years, despite regular treatments, she seemed to be a nit magnet! Thank you for all your kindness, been a difficult weekend, don't know why particularly, it just has. I know it's early days but the whole process is SO draining. Pimpf...funny you should make the reference to "would somebody tell me not to be upset if husband died six months ago"...well OW's husband did in fact die only six months before I found out about their affair, you'd think she'd be upset wouldn't you? Instead, she took my husband to replace hers. What a shit. :-(. Am actually desperate for counselling on Tuesday morning, I am feeling very sad at the moment. Took son on long walk through the bluebell woods today, he loved it, but so sad looking at all the families. I miss that, a unit, will I ever have that again?! :-(

handfulofcottonbuds Sun 13-Apr-14 21:58:04

mrsc - I don't want to add to any worries you have but I would also think that telling MIL a lot may not be a good idea lovely.

She may have cut him off 100% but he is her son and they could reconcile. A mother's love for her son is a strong bond as you know.

I really don't want to worry you, I want you to protect yourself in all ways x

MrsC1969HJ Sun 13-Apr-14 22:07:54

I hear you MIL is actually my H's stepmother but has had that role since he was about 4 years old. His biological mother is dead. Honestly, there is not likely to be a reconciliation, they are utterly disgusted. They think that he engineered this whole "split" as he very quickly realised that they would not entertain OW or yet another grandson. They have been through this before, with his two relationships prior to me, got to know children etc and then he just did his cut and run thing and they had to just get on and never see the children again. It hurt them immensely. Obviously over such a long relationship, we have become close, my own mother is dead and my MIL has taken her place in many respects. My H went to see them before Christmas and essentially said "i know you love MrsC but I am with OW now" ie : we didn't matter anymore. They couldn't do that. I produced them their first biological grandchild and their loyalty is with me and the children. At Christmas, my H badgered all of us all day, it was pitiful, long story that I won't go into now, I was with his parents. In the end his Dad sent a text saying "please enjoy your Christmas and let us enjoy ours" and my H jumped on that and sent a text to his father saying "fuck off, don't ever contact me again". He is upset that they haven't just welcomed OW into the family, that will never happen, she will never be welcome and they blame her for a large proportion of this. She even wrote out the family Christmas cards to "Mum & Dad"..WTF?! That went down well...!!!! He has chosen to cut off his family and they don't feel they can support him. I have spoken to my MIL every single day since 18 October when he told me, they come down here regularly (live in the North) and I visit them too. I couldn't have got through this without them. So please don't fret, they are entirely on my side and are willing to statement on my behalf if needs be. I am very very lucky to have them. :-) x

handfulofcottonbuds Sun 13-Apr-14 22:11:28

Okay lovely, sending you love and strength x

MrsC1969HJ Tue 15-Apr-14 12:01:27

Hello all, had third counselling session this morning. It is really helping me to see that I have actually escaped from what was clearly a toxic situation even though I couldn't see it at the time and the realisation that there have probably been a lot of "dalliances" over the years down to his need for constant adoration and attention and the inability to see that "love" comes in all forms, including just being a mum and wife and all that goes with it. She used the word "sociopath", said his cruelty and lack of empathy was nothing short of breathtaking and said that it really was a dreadful pity that he would probably never seek help of any form and will hence just lurch from one relationship to the next being unable to find the "perfection" he is looking for, this situation with OW being the most toxic of all. His biggest issue is the constant having to "come back" to us because of DS, a situation he didn't account for at the beginning of all this when he said "obviously DS will come with me"...!!!! It is really helping me to understand, and I do need to understand, and realise that I don't need this in my life. I deserve better than how I have been treated by him in all ways. My poor son will no doubt suffer because of his father and that frightens me most of all!

LBZT Tue 15-Apr-14 12:34:38

hello mrsc I am really glad to hear of the great support you have for yourself and your children.
I guess with the counselling you are on a bit of a journey of discovery, you are very strong to face this and learn from it, many people would run screaming in the other direction.
The charming comment that "obviously DS will come with me" what a plonker no wonder he can't deal with you he just doesn't get it does he, and sadly he may never but rest assured you will always be his mum and as a mum of 3 boys ranging in age from 4-14 I know that a sons love is priceless. It's wonderful how the older they get the more protective they are of "mum". The oldest one now always carries my shopping when we are out. They are all really good at holding doors for me, it's endearing and you will have all this to come. Sons seem to have an ability to make you feel treasured. Lots for you to look forward to, have a blessed day.

Nanny0gg Tue 15-Apr-14 12:57:11

My poor son will no doubt suffer because of his father and that frightens me most of all!

That isn't necessarily the case but I can understand your concern.

Maybe in the future you could find a child-centred counsellor for your son who will be able to help him make sense of all this.

MrsC1969HJ Tue 15-Apr-14 23:41:44

Handful, thank you my darling, you too :-).

LBZT...that is lovely to hear about your boys, what a credit they are to you! I am sure that once DS blossoms from a 3 year old fireball, he will be a lovely young man, I hope that I can ensure that happens! I am so glad I started the counselling, she is brilliant and is so full of empathy and understanding. I hope it makes me a better person and a strong Mum for my kids! Thank you for your lovely post :-) x

NannyOgg, indeed I could be wrong, but I see history repeating itself right before my eyes, but obviously being aware of that is to my advantage as I can help him in the right way. For example, since the weekend my son has asked me repeatedly, "do you love my Dad", "do you like my Daddy" or today "why don't you love my Daddy" seems to come from nowhere but something is bothering him. It is heartbreaking to hear and today he said it in front of my friends who were quite upset about it. My worry is that my H is telling him that "Mummy doesn't love Daddy anymore" as a reason for him leaving. I really really hope not as that would be the last straw for me I think.

mistlethrush Wed 16-Apr-14 15:49:26

MrsC - I have a friend whose brother abandoned his first wife, got his partner pregnant and then abandoned her for another woman when their son was tiny. My friend's parents have a close relationship with the ex partner and her son - she's been to stay, they went to his first birthday party etc - it can work (particularly when the man has been so obviously terribly behaved).

In terms of your son, I would make it clear that 'Daddy decided he loved another woman more than mummy and that made mummy sad' might be a way of explaining it to DS in a way that explains why you don't like him anymore.

hotcrossbabblehag Wed 16-Apr-14 16:50:37

sorry not read through the whole thread yet, if your son has ASD you can get DLA for him, also depending on what rates you get you will also get higher tax credits and carers allowance, have a good delve into this area, I think you may be surprised at how much extra help you van get financially.

I'll go back to reading this thread now.

hotcrossbabblehag Wed 16-Apr-14 19:32:54

I have finally read the thread, and can I just say mrsc you are so strong, you might not feel it at times but I would be chewing at the but in your situation, well done for staying so calm. I was thinking in regards to your children could you talk to your sons school about play therapy, explaining your concerns about the mankyoldhag ow being mentioned and him covering his eyes, also ask if he could have an ed phsych involved perhaps if not already, also the same sort of thing in regards to your daughter. The fact that both children have access to therapy due to the damage done by h, may go well in your favour, of course I am no expert, but if I was in your shoes I would think of doing this mainly to make sure my kids were OK and were able to communicate with someone other than me, and eventually to get a bit of one up manship if h ever did try for custody.

MrsC1969HJ Thu 17-Apr-14 11:36:38

Mistlethrush, thank you for your post, goodness he sounds like a charmer! It is so good to have that sort of support, I don't know what I would have done without my inlaws. H doesn't appreciate the stress that he has put them under and the heartache he has caused them. He expected to just be able to slot OW into their lives and seems surprised that they don't want that. I also know my MIL well enough to know that she would find OW intolerable, even under different circumstances! :-)

MrsC1969HJ Thu 17-Apr-14 11:42:54

hotcrossbabblehag...thanks so much for your posts and for taking the time to read through this huge thread! DS is currently undergoing assessment and we have 18 months ahead yet. Funny, I didn't know anything about DLA etc until OW told my H that the "only reason" I was having DS assessed was so I could claim it. What an absolute cow. H has completely "forgotton" DS's 30 month check where the Health Visitor said almost immediately that he should be "statemented". It was all imagined apparently....even though he was sat there with me. Guilt does awful things to your head doesn't it?

I don't feel very strong, everybody says I am, but I find every day an emotional struggle. It's just grieving isn't it? It will pass in time. DS has an "at home" assessment in a couple of weeks, watching him in his normal environment, all of this will be discussed then. DD will return to counselling when she goes back to school next week. I have emailed the counsellor in the light of recent issues. Indeed, H has no idea of the damage he has done, DS is clearly now realising and this contact "why don't you love my daddy", "do you love my dad" is heartbreaking. Today he asked me if I could give his dad a cuddle and he keeps saying "mum and dad" all the time. It's taken him 5 1/2 months to stop asking when his dad is coming home. I have emailed my H about this in as basic terms as possible and he replied "so can I see him longer tomorrow". He literally refuses to acknowledge what he's done and the affect on his son. It's just mind boggling, it really is. Oh well...onwards and upwards...!

MrsC1969HJ Thu 17-Apr-14 11:44:53