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What do I do now?

(107 Posts)
Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 03:41:05

I'm new here. My DSiL thought this would be a good place for me to find advice. And my family are old fashioned and biased excluding my DB & DSiL and though they try to help, they are not.

Yesterday, I left my DW. I found out, well she told me, that she has slept with another man, twice. And the only reason she told me is because I brought up the subject of wanting another child.

She told she wanted another also but had to confess she cheated because she did not want to bring a child into this world for things to backfire later and me blame her for having the baby out of guilt. When asked why, she said it was in the moment and the impulse of something dangerous and feeling wanted.

We -have- had a great sexlife, we experimented and I never neglected her needs nor her mine. I do not believe it is my fault, she cheated end of, but maybe I wasn't doing something she thought I should me. It's a bloody mess.

I told her to find somewhere else to stay the night and that it was over. I do not condone cheating, it has left me with doubts whether she's done it before and if this man was more than just a 2-night stand. I cannot live like that, I cannot fix the past and I do not want to repair our marriage which she has destroyed and I do not wish to pretend for the children. I am heartbroken and clueless as to what I do now.

She is the one that cheated, she is the one who has to move out, she has agreed to this. Now to the sensitive issue; our 2 ds who are 4 & 3.

I do not want my children to leave, they have routine, they are settled in daycare and are happy. I do not want to cause them anymore confusion than I have to. How do I approach the subject of the children staying with me at home?

I am happy to do joint custody but not until she is in a stable environment, that's not to say I won't let her visit them and her have them, she can, just not for a few nights. Can I do this without sounding like the bad one?

My family say I should keep them with me and let her visit at set times but it's not that simple is it?

My DB & DSiL say they'll support me whatever but that's no help at all.

I am filing for divorce. This is certain but we need to sit down and discuss things involving the children.

Any advice on how I should talk to her about these things? And any advice on how to help the children? I feel like a failure as a parent - having been raised by old fashioned parents and having some of the same ideals, I feel like I have failed them.

Sorry for the rant. insomnia

2Retts Sat 15-Mar-14 04:02:16

You have not failed your children Papaontheedge, you were not the one who betrayed the family unit.

Who normally takes principal care of the DCs? What is their routine and how will this be affected by the current turn of events? Is she likely to fight for residency?

My best advice would be to try and keep things as civil as possible. Children need to know they are loved by each of their parents and as long as you are prepared to accommodate this, it should all be well for them.

Your mind seems to be decided about the relationship and now it is time for damage limitation for the DCs.

Routine is so very important to DCs of this age; can you maintain this (perhaps with help)? That's the real question.

Wishing you well

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 04:24:30

Do you still love her? Could you maybe still work through this? You've only just found out so don't rush any decisions or take any actions just yet. I would have some space from her for a few days. I know this might be difficult given your children. Just cause she cheated on you doesn't mean she has any less right to see them/care for them. I think you two need to chat. See how you both feel....maybe you can work it out. Marriage therapy may be an idea. Not condoning what she has done and I think the way you found out was horrible but the fact you both want another child together gives me hope that there might be a marriage worth saving.good luck and I am hear to talk to if you need a non biased ear to bend.

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 04:28:21

Also just cause she's agreed to move out now cause she cheated doesn't mean she will keep to this. Chances are she will fight to keep house and have the girls there once dust settles and age sees a solicitor. I know it's it fair but 9 times out of 10 women get to keep house and their children. Unless she is an unfit mother and you do the majority of the child care. If the house is owned she's entitled to half regardless on whether she cheated (unless your in the USA, dome states have laws that penalise cheats)

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 04:28:46

She* not age

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 04:29:27

And its not fair* sorry about typos I'm tired

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 04:30:05

Some* not dome

2Retts Sat 15-Mar-14 04:44:37

Also, how about 'the boys' as in '2 DS who are 4 & 3' and 'I am filing for divorce. This is certain...'.

I don't mean to be inflammatory EmilyJane86 but I am wondering how thoroughly you have read the OP.

wannabestressfree Sat 15-Mar-14 04:49:18

It is four in the morning!

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 07:54:44

Thanks wannabestressfree I was half asleep. I thought I read daughters. People divorce far too quickly these days. Also it's fair to say he shouldn't think that just cause his wife has agreed to move out now that she's actually going to stick to that. No solicitor is going to advise her to do that. Things can get very ugly in divorces. I wonder how much experience of divorce 2Retts actually has. Unfortunately for myself I have lots of experience in this department. My parent's have been married 6 times between them with 5 children produced through out these marriages. I also have two close friends going through divorce at the moment. The wife cheated numerous times and the husband was faithful but he's the one living back with his parents and she has the children. Not right but that's how it is.

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 07:59:24

Sorry Papaontheedge I know you have not asked for advice so the women on here can start bickering Luke children. I was just trying to say let your feelings settle before you make big decisions. I don't believe in staying married for the children but if there is still love between you then sometimes it's worth investigating time into a marriage and seeing if it can be solved. I'm sure you didn't go into marriage lightly. I hope your not feeling too bad today

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 08:00:55


EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 08:07:11

And you can't just decide when she sees the kids or has them. You can't even kick her out as she has legally as much right to be there. You need to see a solicitor as does she. That's if you want to go through with divorce.

Joysmum Sat 15-Mar-14 08:20:08

It's the usual from me, get legal advice. You can have your ideals of what and when regarding contact but you need to be compliant with the law. Make sure that you know your rights and follow procedure 100% to give the best change of achieving the outcome you want with the least risk of fuss and issues.

Of course this is a tough time for you, but it's also a time when you need to be emotionally detached and base decisions on facts rather than emotions. That's not so say you can't be emotional of course, just not whilst you're in decision making mode.

Gudgyx Sat 15-Mar-14 08:33:25

If this was a woman writing this about a man, all we would hear is LTB.

OP, she cheated on you, she ruined your family unit, she's broken your heart. From your OP, i cant see that you even want to forgive her. If you want the kids to stay with you, tell her. Surely she'll see that not uprooting them and keeping them in as good a routine as possible is the best thing for them?

Take some time out for you though. It appears you have a good support network in your family, make sure you make use of it. They are going to be your rocks for the next wee while.

Good luck with everything.

Lweji Sat 15-Mar-14 08:34:17

Regardless of what went on between you two, it's not for you to "allow" her or to "let" her see the children or whatever. You are showing some red flags here.
She has every right to share custody, be with the children, even to have the children live with her, as you do. In fact, your rights, or hers, do not count for much. It should be about what is best for the children.
Who does most of their day to day care? Who keeps doctor's appointments, buy clothes, feeds them, etc? If it's her, then she should be the one with them.

Get legal advice, yes. I'd advise her the same.

And I'd try to work out what is best for the children rather than your rights.

whattoWHO Sat 15-Mar-14 08:37:49

All I would say is don't rush into agreeing anything.
Get legal advice, get your head around how monumentally different your future looks from how it appeared 24 hours ago.
Take your time.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 11:44:55

Thank you everyone. To address posts.

1) We both work full-time. She works 7-3 and I work 8-4. I take them to daycare, she picks them up and on Monday my parents have them and on Friday her parents. We share the care in the evenings i.e both cook, clean and do bedtimes.

2) Cannot be with someone who has cheated. The doubts have been planted. I certaininly can't entertain the fact of having a child with her. We also both signed a prenup agreement which included certain things when one has cheated - doesn't solve the problems and we still have to sit and talk but it's a fall back.

3) I did not say she can't have contact with them and I am not stopping her from seeing them, she's their mother, they need her too. But if she still agrees to leave then I would like her settled somewhere be it at home, her parents or in a new house before she could have the children for more than a couple of nights. Is that really so unfair to ask?

I just don't want the children waking up in umfamiliar places or having no proper bed. I want joint custody and this is what agreed and what will happen, I will not deny my children that. I'm talking about what happens if she does really agree to move it and has yet to find a place basically the inbetween stage.

I think I've answered most thing there. I do not want to be harsh to her, she did help raise 2 beautiful children and we have had 5 good years together. I do not want her back, period, but I still love her amongst the hurt and anger, and I want to make this seperation as easy as possible for all of our sakes and with little drama.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 11:52:49

As for appointments etc who goes depends on which one of us can get the time off work. Usually my hours are more flexible so I go more often than not but we try to get time off together and go.

ballinacup Sat 15-Mar-14 12:10:56

If you're in the UK a pre nup won't count for shit I'm afraid.

wannabestressfree Sat 15-Mar-14 12:19:52

I would just go about your normal life and routine the next few days and let the dust settle. Your wife didn't just 'help' raise two children. You might find she is agreeing to give you space in the interim but you have no right to dictate 'terms and conditions' if your marriage isn't continuing.
It all sounds very clinical very early on (and yes I would say this to a woman)

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 12:58:27

Well, she did help raise them, as I helped her. We raised them together. Not sure on which proper term you want me to use...

She's coming back in a couple hours. I don't know how normal we are expected to act. I'll take the sofa bed, tonight.

I am not dictating anything, I asked her to leave so I could cool down and avoid saying things I would regret, she agreed. I know she also wants the best for the children also and "uprooting" them when the living situation isn't sorted isn't fair on them to be in limbo.

We'll talk and discuss things but we won't rush into things. The divorce will be put on the back burner if things can be sorted without interference, which is what we both want to achieve and apply for divorce further down the line - when things are settled. I plan to her I won't file if we can sort things out between us. After sleeping on it, I would rather avoid courts for as long as possible.

Feeling better today, more motivated, less angry and hurt. Inhale, exhale.

Also, we don't live in UK.

wannabestressfree Sat 15-Mar-14 13:00:32

I hope it goes well for you both

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 13:05:14

Thank you, I hope so too. Never expected to be in this situation, so completely clueless and at a loss on how to deal with everything.

mansize Sat 15-Mar-14 14:10:12

FWIW, OP, I think you are coming across very reasonably on here. Good luck.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 18:11:39

Thank you everyone for your input.

She won't be staying tonight. She wants to fix the relationship, I do not, so she said she doesn't want to here because it hurts her too, even though I offered to sleep on the sofa. The children are at my DB's when they come home she will do the normal routine and then go to her parents and come back in the morning where we will explain to the children.

She has always wanted to live closer to her parents and has jumped on this oppertunity. To her it was either all or nothing. I cannot forgive her nevermind forget so she is leaving.

As for the children; she will stay with her parents until she finds somewhere to live, that way we both are happy that it won't upset the children anymore than possible. They will still attend daycare and visit grandparents.

Only thing that will change is that they will spend 2 weeks with me and then 2 weeks with her and Saturdays spent on a family outing somewhere. We plan to have an agreement written up and signed by both of us.

It was so hard to remain unemotional and having to bite my tongue on a few occassions. It was awkward, tense and downright awful. I love her but she always knew my thoughts on cheating.

She is subbornly financially independant and rightly so, she has worked at her career and me at mine. The house is rented so I will pay all the bills as I will still live her and she her own when she finds a place. The only thing she requests is that we still share bills regarding the children and that I postpone the divorce in case we can make it work (I highly doubt it) but I happy to comply.

Basically, she wants nothing to do with me (aside things that include the children) if I refuse to even try at this relationship. So, that's made things clear...

Does this seem reasonable? Are we asking too much or too little of each other? Everything feels cold and distant.

RandomMess Sat 15-Mar-14 18:17:07

I think 2 weeks at each house before switching is too long for the dc, I would say 1 week at most which could be midweek to midweek not necessarily at the weekends.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 18:39:06

We would be switching midweek, but meeting on Saturdays for a dayout if no plans have been made.

She wants more than a week with them, and posters have said I can't demand or make "terms and conditions" to suit me. Maybe 2 weeks are too long at first but I don't want to rock the boat, she already caused a fit when I suggested they spend the first 2 weeks with me to let everything sink in.

Onesqueakywheel Sat 15-Mar-14 18:43:40

Just a thought but rather than the children having to change houses every two weeks couldn't the two of you? If you both agreed on a flat then you could both each spend two weeks in the flat and two weeks in the house. It would be a lot less disruptive for the children I think.
Good luck though.

Lweji Sat 15-Mar-14 18:51:21

One week periods might work better because they are more regular. They would know that each weekend there would be a swap.
I'd forget about family outings, if that means both parents, unless you are in very good terms. It may end up being too painful and not necessarily better for the children.

Lweji Sat 15-Mar-14 18:55:00

Also, she can't lay out the rules any more than you can. A compromise has to be reached. And to be honest, taking the children away from their home for two weeks now, at the same time as they learn about their parents separating doesn't seem like a good idea.
If she's throwing fits, it looks like she's not that reasonable. You can insist on your point of view if it's for the children's benefit.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 18:55:20

We need our own space and I don't think sharing another property is high on our list. We are both angry. She is angry that I will not try and wants little to do with me and I am angry for obvious reason and for the fact that she has no bloody right to be angry at me.

badbaldingballerina123 Sat 15-Mar-14 18:58:05

I too would caution against family days out . I think your best bet is to proceed in a business like manner and get legal advice asap.

She is not to be trusted at the moment. Are you sure she was actually at her parents house ?

PortofinoRevisited Sat 15-Mar-14 19:00:54

2 weeks with each is far too long for such small children.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 19:04:35

Lwe - We were good friends before we married and hope to be again for the children and our own sake but like you say things are still very raw. She wants to be on civil terms as do I but it's hard right now.

We agreed that if she wants the two weeks, that they spend the first 2 at home. That's why we added trying to do the family thing to break things up a little - we may need to revisit and make things simpler...

Who knew how complicated just agreeing could be!

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 19:13:50

Yes, she was at her parents. Her mother called and demanded why her daughter was on her doorstep crying. Her parents said they would put her up.

I trust her with the children. I do not, however, trust her to be faithful again.

I'm afraid she would see me seeking legal advice as an aggressive move. I don't even know how to go about it...

Tiredstilltired Sat 15-Mar-14 19:37:53

What your dw has done will have minimal if any say on what happens now to your dc. Just because she had an affair does not mean you dictate what happens now.
You sound cocky and smug.

badbaldingballerina123 Sat 15-Mar-14 19:42:31

He's done what all women on here are told to do with a cheating spouse , make them leave so they have space to think.

He's hardly smug.

Gettingmeback Sat 15-Mar-14 19:56:17

Tired if OP was a woman who has just found out her husband cheated, she'd be encouraged to do everything the OP is doing like setting clear boundaries and keeping things business like. He's hardly smug. He's obviously hurting and your comment is nasty and inflammatory towards someone who's life is being turned upside down. Shame on you

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 20:00:00

I am neither smug nor cocky. Do you really think I take pleasure in upsetting my children and ending our marriage. Let me tell you, I don't.

I have been accomadating to her wishes regarding the children but trying to be reasonable. I don't want them my kids staying in random new places, I don't think this is inreasonable and obviously everything will be discussed. I am making suggestions and offering solutions, she does not have to agree but offer other suggestions.

I am merely asking for advice in how to proceed.

You sound cocky and smug
No, he sounds like someone who knows his own boundaries and self worth, and knows he's worth more than an unfaithful partner.
I wish I'd been so decisive when I had a cheating partner.

wannaBe Sat 15-Mar-14 20:04:41

If this was a woman posting she would be being told to ltb, make him realise what he's lost and to dictate when he can see his children. Double standards as usual on mn. (Hmm)

Op, what has happened doesn't dictate what happens wrt the dc, but neither can she. But even a week is too long and unsettling for such young children, they need regular contact with you both.

You need to seek legal advice, she lost the right to a day on that when she slept with someone else, and she will almost certainly seek advice...

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Sat 15-Mar-14 20:05:29

I sympathise, but you simply don't have the right to speak as if your children are yours to organise regardless of her wishes.

Your comments on 'letting' her see them etc. lose you a lot of my sympathy. Her having an affair won't prejudice issues of contact and residency, and neither should they.

She is probably more likely than you to get residency if it goes to court.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 20:16:28

I don't mean to sound as if I am dictating. Just like her, I don't want my children to be taking away from me. As for "letting" comment what other word would you have me use, whichever way I say it people will make it out as I'm dictating things. If I stood back and didn't say anything she would take them and "let" me visit. See?

They are her children, we are simply making arrangments regarding the children. It's what we both want.

If a week is too long, any ideas how care could be shared?

I'm thinking of contacting mediation but have to pluck up the courage and send them an email of enquiry.

hoppingmad Sat 15-Mar-14 20:21:13

I think mediation would be perfect for you. You sound like you want to be reasonable and put the dc's first which is great but emotions can flair up later down the line.
I don't think you sound smug or cocky. I think you sound like someone who's life has been turned upside down by events out with their control and that's left you detached and in shock for now.
Everything you suggested sounds like the best for the dc's. I'm sure a week at each place would be something they quickly get used to

My advice would be to sort mediation and legalities quickly before either of you move on or meet someone new as that can add unexpected issues to the mix

I'm really sorry for what you are going through and wish you all the best

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 20:22:01

I am just statingy wishes, she has stated hers, we just have to find common ground and agree on something more simple. It's not a crime to state what I want to happen even though I know it's very unlikely for that to happen because what she wants for the children count too.

She's a lovely woman and a brilliant mother. It's just difficult.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 20:27:22

Thanks, hoppingmad. All this advice is really welcome and useful.

As for mediation, do I have to ask her first, or can I enquire and then ask her if she wishes to be attend abd sort things that way? Or do they contact her? What do I do if she refuses?

Such a mes...

hoppingmad Sat 15-Mar-14 20:29:58

That I can't answer I'm afraid. My ex point blank refused to consider it and ended up not maintaining contact.
My dc's were very badly hurt. I'm glad that you are adamant not to let your dc's get hurt in the crossfire

FabBakerGirl Sat 15-Mar-14 20:37:21

She doesn't seem to get it, does she? Wants to work it out but if you don't forgive and forget she wants nothing to do with you hmm.

2 weeks with you, 2 with her is too long. It should be half the week or a week at the most. A family day each weekend is a really bad idea. It will get the children's hopes up and how is it going to happen when she has already said she wants nothing to do with you because you wont' be a doormat and accept she fucked another man?

As for sounding smug hmm. You do not. You sound sad, hurt, disappointed and calm.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 20:47:04

She's currently bathing the children and putting them to bed and then I'll make us a coffee and bring up mediation and get her thoughts on it.

Just speculation on my part but I think she's angry and because I'm refusing she is putting up a wall a between us. I think she thought if sje confessed, it would be okay and because that didn't happen she's hating me instead. Just a theory but could be completely wrong. All I know is that it's over but I would like to remain if not friends, civil with her. If not now, later.

I never thought about the false hope just thought it would be nice for us and the children to put everything aside for at least a day. Will rethink on that too.

Hopefully she agrees to mediation, it make it easier on us if someone is there to help us reach a medium.

lavenderhoney Sat 15-Mar-14 20:48:14

Why is seeing a solicitor an aggressive move, op? If you plan to divorce you need one.

Go and see someone and ask about finances, childcare etc.

If you are able to remain amicable that would be great. You can sit down with her and a mediator and sort out childcare and finances then obviously as things change you change arrangements either with your ex wife or through a court if you don't agree.

Did you tell her parents she had had an affair and they shouldn't be calling you and being aggressive? She must have known they would ring you or been there when they did so trouble has already started.

Even if you decide you could attempt counselling with her or alone, with a view to remaining married, seeing a lawyer is the sensible thing to do. No doubt she will.

Where are you in the world? Are you from there and will remain there? And have you any rl friends to talk to? Lean on family and friends.

Its very early to be worrying about childcare after divorce. For now, sort an arrangement that suits you, as main carer. And ask the lawyer what they suggest, for the interim.

jayho Sat 15-Mar-14 20:49:34

papa slow down, you can't sort all this in one go, there's too much emotion.

Make arrangements for your children to have reasonable contact with each of you for the sort term - next four weeks- without disrupting their daily routine while the two of you settle down.

Don't do family stuff, it's too painful and will not benefit your children.

Try to come to agreements over time.

I wish you well, you clearly care for your children and are also clear on your boundaries

lavenderhoney Sat 15-Mar-14 20:52:02

And don't forget, it doesn't have to be agreed tonight. Think about it. Take advice from a lawyer.

She took a huge risk telling you about her affair and I fail to see why she did that, tbh, as she must know your views.

I hope your talk goes well.

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 21:01:49

Thanks, everyone. I am panicking, I admit and revert to finding as many suggestions/solutions as possible to calm myself. Which at the minute is making me worse. I need to step back.

Her mother called me because they couldn't get her calm enough from crying to talk so they phoned me and I told them it was best to ask her for the details but in short, she slept with another man.

I've emailed the mediator for an enquiry and you, are right, need to think about now instead of later. The children's routines will stay the same so we just have to figure out nights, weekends and after daycare...

We are both German and live in Germany and plan on staying here.

Thank you all, so much. It really has helped with priorities.

Bestthingtodo Sat 15-Mar-14 21:11:12

I understand this is a difficult time however two weeks is best for her, not for such young children. I have a just turned four DS and am not with his dad though we strive to be a good parenting team. If his dad goes away for one week DS finds it difficult, two weeks will cause huge fortnightly trauma. Please don't do this to them.

wallypops Sat 15-Mar-14 21:26:32

Im in France where shared parenting is common. How about Friday to Friday with a mid-week night (Tuesday) at the other parents. My kids have every other weekend with their Dad and two weeks was way too long for them but he wasn't interested in any other any other solution.

Lweji Sat 15-Mar-14 21:34:40

I think that if you were to agree with two weeks at each, the weekend(s) during those weeks should be spent at the other parent's house.

Oh, and BTW, she sounds selfish and self-centered, for sleeping with someone else, and particularly if she thought you'd simply forgive her and is angry at you for not doing it immediately.
I might forgive a one night stand, in special circumstances, but it would require a fairly long time, and a completely different attitude from my partner.

anapitt Sat 15-Mar-14 21:48:15

papa I think you sound like a sensible caring man and a good father who is handling things really well.
I disagree with those who say 2 weeks at each house is two long. if it works , do it.

my best friend is doing something similar and they too have a family day out with everyone at least once at the weekend. it's working well for everyone .

Good luck.

Goldmandra Sat 15-Mar-14 21:51:56

papa slow down, you can't sort all this in one go, there's too much emotion.


You're in turmoil and so is your wife. Neither of you is in a the right place to make firm long term plans.

Take while to process this while keeping things as calm and stable as possible for the children. Don't rush into agreeing long term arrangements in the heat of the moment and certainly don't start laying the law down to her about where she can have contact. She's done a pretty good job up until now so trust her her continue to be a good parent when you are separated.

Take things one step at a time. Negotiate the next few days, perhaps a week for now and agree to talk again before the end of that time.

GhettoPrincess001 Sat 15-Mar-14 21:58:37

So, she blinked first. That gives you the upper hand and don't you just love that.

You will regret divorcing her in the long run. You will see how hasty you have been.

Viviennemary Sat 15-Mar-14 21:58:48

Your wife is in the wrong. She cheated and should leave if that's what you want. I don't see why you should lose custody of your children when you have done nothing wrong. Ihope things work out for you.

Lweji Sat 15-Mar-14 22:00:11

So, she blinked first. That gives you the upper hand and don't you just love that. You will regret divorcing her in the long run. You will see how hasty you have been.

are you the cheating wife?

hoppingmad Sat 15-Mar-14 22:01:56

Ghettoprincess - what are you on about?

Goldmandra Sat 15-Mar-14 22:05:09

I don't see why you should lose custody of your children when you have done nothing wrong.

Custody of the children should be about what's best for them, not which adult was in the wrong.

PublicEnemyNumeroUno Sat 15-Mar-14 22:27:18

WTF GhettoPrincess ?? hmm

OP, good on you for not putting up with a cheating partner and realising that once trust is gone there is nothing left, i think you sound very sensible and although i have no advice i wish you the best

Papaontheedge Sat 15-Mar-14 23:01:23

GhettoPrincess001 - What part am I supposed to love? Blinking first? What the hell are you on about? If you had read the thread you would have realised we posponing the divorce because that isn't the main priority right now, our children are. I will not regret leaving someone who was unfaithful to me. End of.

She has agreed that we should let things settle and then seek mediation. For the time being things should carry on as normal. We have agreed with suprisingly no arguements that after daycare she picks them up as usual and keeps them until after dinner around 7ish and then brings them home for bath and bed and if we haven't sorted anything by next weekend she'll have them overnight.

To whoever mentioned it; we aren't disbuting custody. No matter what happens the custody will be shared unless something goes horribly wrong and unfortunately the courts get involved.

As for the 2 weeks agreement, I think we'll see what the mediator says and get his advice.

Tomorrow is a new day, lets see what it brings now that I am no longer overwhelmed.

EmilyJane86 Sat 15-Mar-14 23:41:00

Papa I think your being very reasonable and fair, I really feel for you. You sound like such a good husband and father actually. I really hope all works out for you xxxxx I will say a prayer for you tonight

badbaldingballerina123 Sun 16-Mar-14 14:57:50

What a stupid thing to say ghetto.

tribpot Sun 16-Mar-14 15:29:10

It sounds like the priority is for her to get her own place sorted out so that she can have the children with her for her access times. Is there anything you can do to make sure that happens quickly? I can imagine her stalling, hoping you will let her come home.

As you're in Germany, I'm guessing your kids are a few years away from going to school, so location may not be such a key consideration as it would be for someone in this country with a 4 year old and shared custody. But I would focus on some of these practical aspects of shared care - you both need to be near enough to the same school, the same GP, and so on. If the schools have an admissions policy based on where the parents are living, this will be a factor.

I'm very sorry you're going through this.

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 15:30:14

If the mediator doesn't have children they might not have the relevant experience to be able to advise you. I would be listening to the mothers on here who have lived it, not someone with letters after their name and no experience. 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is definitely too long, especially when your children are so young.

Ignore Ghetto hmm.

Your wife really has a cheek. Is she used to feeling like she is the one in charge and treating you with disrespect? She seriously thought it would be fine to fuck another man, twice that you know of, and that you would fall back in to line. Unbelievable.

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 15:33:02

The children have been told. I never want to ever repeat this day.

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 15:54:50

At the minute she is staying at her parents so that the children have familiar faces around. I've offered to help house hunt or come to viewings with her and she agreed. The children are in daycare so the place has to be near enough that she can get their with public transport or walk.

I think the situation is just raw and emotions are high. Normally everything beyween is great, who shared responsiblity because we both worked full-time. We never believed one was more in charge than the other.

The mediator has children and specialises in divorce/seperations & family disbutes. So hopefully, he can help us out.

Today, we're putting everything aside and focusing on helping the children understand. Do you think books might help?

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 15:57:38

There probably are books to help children process their parents splitting up but really they just need routine, love and to feel secure all the time.

spindlyspindler Sun 16-Mar-14 16:03:36

I'm really sorry, OP, this sounds like a terrible situation that you're in. I just wanted to add my voice to those who've suggested you get legal advice, because (a) she is highly likely to do that herself and (b) although you might well be able to reach an amicable agreement with her without huge solicitor involvement, you should still consult a solicitor to get some idea of how enforceable that amicable agreement will be if it breaks down later and you do have to go to court (which will look at it from the point of view of your childrens' welfare first and foremost). Good luck with it all.

higgle Sun 16-Mar-14 16:08:43

OP, I feel that you have the idea that you are entitled to force your opinion as the solution because you feel you were in the right and your wife was in the wrong. I hope that your wife gets ome legal advice soon because at the moment you are calling all the shots, and that isn't right. It sounds as if you have chosen the mediator too.

badbaldingballerina123 Sun 16-Mar-14 16:27:50

I'm a bit sick of this gender issue on here. If it was a woman nobody would make such comments. His wife is lucky that he has not emotionally reacted and is looking for a mediater . And his wife is wrong , no question. And actually shouldn't it be her looking for a mediator ? Instead she wants nothing to do with him because he won't continue the marriage.

How many people would offer to help their spouse find a house after they've fucked somebody else ? I think he's handled it well , has behaved with dignity , and is putting his children first

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 16:43:13

The OP has to protect himself and his right to see his children AMAP as even though it is the wife that has broken the wedding vows it is often the mother that gets the house and kids. Why should he loose everything when he has done nothing wrong.

VoyageDeVerity Sun 16-Mar-14 16:44:56

This is not about who has done something wrong it's about what is best for the children!

badbaldingballerina123 Sun 16-Mar-14 16:50:33

The Op is doing what's best for the children.

tribpot Sun 16-Mar-14 16:55:55

When I first read the OP's initial posts I had a similar feeling, i.e. that she was having to leave 'because she was wrong'. With such young children it would have been reasonably likely, esp in this country, that she was their primary carer.

However, now that OP has explained that they co-parent much more equally and clarified that he is not stopping her from seeing them, just preferring that they not have overnights until she has her own place, I think his stance is very reasonable.

I feel very sorry for her - I would be desperate if I had to spend time away from my ds like this. However, a handy way she could have avoided the circumstance would have been not to shag another man. Twice. I suspect she was counting on OP's desire not to 'break up the family' to get away with it. As we normally tell posters who have been cheated on, it's the cheating spouse who's broken the family, not the one cheated on.

This is a very difficult day for you, Papaontheedge. I truly feel for you, having to tell your children. Take each day as it comes.

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 17:06:26

Voyage - !

I am aware of that and think he IS doing what is best for the children. I just believe he shouldn't lose his home.

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 17:13:23

No actually, I emailed one to enquire, and then I brought up the topic with her, she agreed (if she didn't then we'd find another way) I also asked for a list of more local mediators so we'll go through the list together if/when he replies. If I didn't enquire I doubt she would have - I'm looking at every option. She said she'll make the call once we decide seeing as she finishes work earlier.

I am not forcing my opinion, I'm offering it. She has every right to offer hers and disagree with me.

You are only hearing my side through my posts. DW is perfectly capable offering her views and suggestions and she has done. What she did was wrong, yes, she cheated but how we deal with it are more important, we have to find solutions together because we are not the only ones involved.

My brother suggested legal advice too, it all sounds secretive and I hate that but I'll look into it.

Okay, that's me signing off for today and probably for a while. Will check back when things are more settled. Thanks, everyone.

VoyageDeVerity Sun 16-Mar-14 17:14:52

I'm not sure he is doing what's best for the children.

But it doesn't seem like he wants to hear other opinions. Understandably, he is very upset.

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 17:19:49

Thanks, Tribpot. I didn't see your 2nd reply until after I responded. It's difficult but I am trying to make this as easy as possible for both of us as parents not a couple.

badbaldingballerina123 Sun 16-Mar-14 17:26:07

Whats your suggestion then voyage ?

Should he slink off to sleep on his friends sofa ?
Should he send the kids to the in laws and have them shuffled about until she's settled ?

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 17:26:17

Voyage - my children come first. Always.

Signing off.

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 17:38:24

Come on then voyage, tell us what he is doing wrong in your opinion, and what he should be doing.

VoyageDeVerity Sun 16-Mar-14 19:15:56

Look I just think he is jumping the gun a little that's all.

Decisions made in the midst of pain. I get the feeling it's the OPs pride that is stopping him from just taking a step back here.

Papaontheedge Sun 16-Mar-14 19:35:32

Why is it so hard to understand that I don't want to be with someone who cheated? The trust is gone.

VoyageDeVerity Sun 16-Mar-14 19:38:43

That's fair enough do what you want. I'm just giving you a view that's all. You posted about it on here you are going to get various opinions.
All the best.

FabBakerGirl Sun 16-Mar-14 19:46:30

Nowhere does it even hint that Papa is letting his pride make the decisions.

badbaldingballerina123 Sun 16-Mar-14 20:01:41

He's not posted asking for opinions on his marriage. Some people say they won't tolerate infidelity and they mean it.

MultipleMama Mon 17-Mar-14 12:56:13

I'm sorry you are in the position.

I think 2 weeks is too long also. I hope the mediation works out. I do believe you are thinking of the DC and preffering things which do seem to be in their best interests.

Have you thought about a legal seperation instead of divorce? (For now anyway) I think you have to be seperated for a certain period of time before you can file for divorce in Germany. It's like a divorce agreement i.e child arangements, housing, money etc and if a judge signs it, it's legal binding. You file it on your own, or together. You should look into it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 17-Mar-14 14:37:25

Papa... Ignore the gender struggles that some posters seem to be having on your thread. I think you sound very calm and rational and in spite of the pain you must be feeling, you're putting your children first. That's all you need to do, that and look after yourself.

I think you're moving forward at a pace that you might want to reflect on at some point, to slow it down a bit, but perhaps you are a problem-solver and need to be 'doing something' to bring this to an end? However you feel about it though, you can review your circumstances at any time and if your wife is being reasonable also then you can set your own timetables for your course(s) of action.

I wanted to comment on one bit of your post that made me think that your wife isn't really ok with her decision and what she has done - and the consequences of that - that was this bit: Basically, she wants nothing to do with me (aside things that include the children) if I refuse to even try at this relationship. So, that's made things clear...

I believe that what your wife is trying to do is to push you into forgiveness by 'upping the ante'. By telling you that she wants nothing to do with you UNLES you're willing to try again, she's hoping that you will be so shocked that you'll stop and think and give her time to make it up to you, to make it right somehow. It is clear, but perhaps not in the way you might think.

I don't think that you'd regret divorcing her; some spouses just will not see a way through a cheating partner - and neither should they feel made to do so. It's your life and this is about you and her. Put the children aside for a moment as you're both looking out for their welfare - this is about your marriage and what it means to you in the longer term.

In your position I might well feel the same, wanting a clean break, decisive action and a clear-cut strategy of what will happen next, pushing my feelings deep down out of the way. In your wife's position, I'd probably feel sick. Deeply sickened that I was now a flawed person in your eyes, the person I'd made vows to, and deeply shocked at the disappointment and betrayal I'd caused. I might well do/say exactly the same thing because I'd want you to forgive my selfishness and weigh it up over the 5 good years we'd been married.

Obviously, I have no idea what's going on in your head beyond what you've posted and no idea at all of what is in your wife's. I'm just saying how I might feel in that position.

You have it all mapped out; it's clear and reasonable. You haven't allowed for the onslaught of emotions that will kick in when you've finished 'mopping up' the arrangements for your children. They will kick in though and you will need support and yes, time to rationalise exactly what your next steps will really be and how this will translate to your life from that point on.

I advise you to make no massive decisions right now, either way; they are often difficult to unpick and you don't need the extra complications and pain that that can bring.

I wish you well, Pappa, you sound like a wonderful dad, part of a team of two wonderful parents, and I'm so sorry that this has happened.

VoyageDeVerity Mon 17-Mar-14 16:19:19

"Gender struggles" confused

Papaontheedge Fri 28-Mar-14 23:14:23

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. These past couple of weeks have been the hardest of my life and life decided to throw another curveball at us. We have miles to go and those emotions I was trying to hold back during this process are starting to show themselves.

We are seeking mediation (she chose who) and had our first appointment Monday. Regarding what's happening; W is still living at her parents but I am no longer helping her look for an apartment. The children are still with me and she sees them everyday after daycare and has them saturdays. At our next appointment we plan to talk arrangements.

Thank you, again.

badbaldingballerina123 Fri 28-Mar-14 23:46:13

Hi there papa , with regards to emotions I think it very normal. Do you have support , someone to talk to ? It's important not to bottle things up.

Papaontheedge Sat 29-Mar-14 00:10:01

I have family to talk to but I'm thinking of seeing the counselor at work (my boss suggested it), not now as I'm busy with everything but later...

papaonedge Fri 30-May-14 00:06:59

Hello, just back to say thank you to everyone for their support. A lot has happened/changed since I last updated. I spoke to a counsellor at work and still going once a week.

I found out that ex-W was pregnant with OM's baby and she was keeping it because it was her chance to have "normal PG & baby" (our children were meticulously planned due to my health status). She was only 7 weeks pregnant when we had that "discussion", sadly she lost the baby at 11 weeks. She is planning on starting a relationship with OM but she wants to wait until the relationship is serious before introducing the children and wants me there when she does.

She is now living in a 2 bed apartmant and has taken on a promotion at work which has increased her hours so the childcare agreement we had had to be changed at another mediation. We are on civil terms for the children's sake but we have filed for a legal seperation signed by us both, and discussed at mediation and lawyers we are just waiting on a court to approve it which could take a while.

As for our beautiful children. They live with me during the week (due to ex-w promotion and I've had to change hours slightly) and ex-w has them every weekend which suits us all and is working really well.

The children were very confused and upset as expected and could not understand what was going on but with outside help we are all in a good plave but it's still early days.

It's hard and heart wrenching but I'm getting thete, we're getting there.

RollerCola Fri 30-May-14 08:43:45

My heart goes out to you papa it really does. I know the pain you are going through and it's so hard to put it aside and stay amicable for your children's sakes isn't it?

I do it, I paint a smile on my face at handover times and never say anything bad about exh to the children. It kills me but I do it so that they don't have to be any more upset.

Your ex-wife really is a nasty piece of work. She obviously knew she was pregnant then, and told you she'd slept with OM hoping you'd forgive her? And what if you had? When would she have told you about the pregnancy? Or worse, would she have passed the child off as yours?

I really cannot understand how people can treat others like this hmm

You have acted with strength and dignity and I admire you because I know how awful it is.

Good luck, stay strong, take all the help you can. It will get easier in time but look after yourself in the meantime.

papaonedge Fri 30-May-14 09:26:57

Thank you. It is so hard to smile and be polite but like you, I do it for the children and she's the same. Outside the children she refuses to aknowledge me and in a way I'm glad. I have my life and she has hers.

She never would have been able to pass the child off as mine, we always used extra-safe condoms so a split was highly unlikely and if it did she would have told me for health reasons (she was also supposedly back on the pill) and we journaled (date) whenever we had sex. I have no idea what she was thinking I am still unable to get an answer from here but my guess is, she hoped I would forgive her and raise the baby as my own.

I cannnot understand people like that either but life goes on as they say.

BitOutOfPractice Fri 30-May-14 09:44:14

Hello OP. Glad to read such a positive update from you. You sound like a good dad and a good man and I'm sorry your wife has done this to you.

I'm sure you've thought this yourself but it's highly unlikely she "only" slept with him twice before she told you, especially in light of the fact that they are in a relationship now. Not sure what that adds to the mix apart from the fact that she is more of a liar than you thought.

Good luck to you and your boys. I hope you can move forward and be happy again

Papaonedge Sun 01-Jun-14 18:57:36

Yes, she had been lying to me. She did not cheat on me twice, but had been having an affair with OM since last July. I still don't know who he is as she refuses to even discuss it. She has become very tight lipped and angry. It's like she's done a complete 180; she blames me for the loss of her baby, saying forcing her out caused her to stress and overwork herself.

My marriage feels like a sham. It is a sham. The kids are the only thing that are keeping me sane at the moment. You know, I thought that if everything was sorted, got into a new routine. I would be fine, that I'd just move on but honestly, I feel worse, I feel angry and frustrated. We received bad news about ds2 4 week ago and the person I wanted to lean on, and talk to, blames and hates me for it.

Counselling is helping but how do you get over losing not only your wife but your best friend too. If only a magic wand existed.

BitOutOfPractice Mon 02-Jun-14 00:14:04

Oh god it's the most awful pain. It is. But I promise you that if you keep going. And you keep doing good, positive things kind you are doing, you will come out if the other side. You will. But it's hell while you're in the middle of it.

Papaonedge Mon 02-Jun-14 00:45:58

I hope so!

Sundays are the worst (changed work days around so I have at least one whole day off with them a week). The house is empty without the children there. I clock watch until 5pm when I can finally pick the boys up. I've missed so many family meals because it feels wrong to have a gathering without the boys. I sit and watch TV or I'll bring work home with me. I've become a sad case.

BitOutOfPractice Mon 02-Jun-14 07:03:56

Well that's something you need to work on I think. Keeping busy. I know Sundays are hard but what about inviting friends round for a BBQ. Or to watch football (there'll be lots on very soon and I'm sure your team will be involved right to the end!!). Take up a hobby or a new sport and join a group (I'd love to join a running club but most meet on Sunday mornings when I have the kids).

Keeping busy will help. It really will. But you need to put in the effort to get it organised.

It's really hard I know but you've done so well so far

papaonedge Tue 24-Jun-14 21:15:06

I just don't see the point anymore... I'm so confused, frustrated and hurt by it all.

We changed the childcare arrangements due to her wanting to accept a promotion even though it meant she'd see the children less but be more financially well off them. The judge finally signed off on our legal seperation 5 days ago which includes the child arrangements.

Then today I heard from my 4 year old that mummy wants a "new" baby, I asked how he knew this and he said her mummy talking on the phone. I called her to tell her what ds said to me and if any of it was true, she told me it's no longer my business because I'm the one who ended things and then hung up on me. I called her mum and she said she thought I already knew and had no qualms about it. Said ex-w and OM have been TTC for a couple of weeks now. I'm shocked.

I don't understand it. I don't understand her deluded and sudden thinking to have another baby with OM.

I feel so frustrated and annoyed with her, she has two beautiful children who she now only sees on a weekend and has an amazing career. Wouldn't having another baby contradict this?

Am I right to feel like this? Do I have say in this? Or at least when it comes to telling the children? She's like a different person; I don't think I know her anymore and I'm terrified that our children are going to be pushed out or caught in the middle of this vendetta she seems to have. I have no doubt she's a great mother but I just don't get her need to subject them to more change, more drama so quickly and cause more confusion.

I just needed to vent. Sorry.

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