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What do you think of these messages on DH email?

(223 Posts)
nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 04:07:53

I don't know what to think but my stomach is in knots.
He has sent a long email giving a lot of business advise to a woman I also know at the end he has signed it " You are amazing and I am your No 1 fan and chairman of your fan club."
Her reply is "thanks so much for all your advise and help. There is so much I would like to talk to you about - do you think that?"
He replied "We are definitely connected with the same passion, drive, and motivation for life and living"
This was a few days ago - no response from her?
I have not spoken to him about it just trying to process it.
What would you make of these emails?

MistletoeBUTNOwine Thu 06-Mar-14 04:18:04

Very odd indeed hmm

russianfudge Thu 06-Mar-14 04:22:53

Is he tapping her up for a business venture? Is it work email? If so maybe that's why they're being cryptic..?

Did you see it legitimately? If so, ask him. If not, why did you look? Do you have concerns?

My DH would never use language like that so I'd find it a big worry but is he normally complimentary/ flowery like that?

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 04:26:41

I honestly found it by mistake I wasn't looking.
No he is very very straight!
She has her own business and there is not really any reason for him to help her?
It is odd.
We are not friends but friends of friends. She is a nice woman I have always liked her. She is no nonsense. Just like my husband who as I say is very straight!

There is a good chance nothing is happening but this kind of 'mutual appreciation' rubbish is a red flag that something could IMO. The ego stroking and cut from the same cloth crap would make me feel worried. Talk to him. Or be prepared to do some evidence gathering and snooping beforehand.

russianfudge Thu 06-Mar-14 05:10:38

Hmm... Yes, nothing happening yet but sounds like it could. Sorry sad

More snooping? Ask him?

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 06-Mar-14 06:16:41

I would think it was inappropriate. The language is pretty cringey and the kind of thing some smitten teen would write to their pop idol, not someone they're giving business advice to. If I was the woman receiving his mails I'd have blushed to my roots. She's offering to talk further and he's gone a bit OTT. Did he have a wine before he wrote it?

Cabrinha Thu 06-Mar-14 06:45:50

I think it's clear cut flirtation, on both sides, but the early days kind where no-one wants to show their hand. Not even necessarily because it's work mail, but because they don't want to risk looking foolish if it's not reciprocated. They're both sniffing - her would the "do you think that?" and him with the "same motivation in life".

Firstly, I would have a really honest chat with yourself. Do you have NO suspicions at all? Not necessarily about her. Are you happy? Do you love him?

If you're happy and genuinely think this is all there is, then I'd confront him, but gently.
I'd point out that the language he used (not the fab club stuff, the shared passion for life stuff) is how you should feel about your wife. I'd ask him if he felt that about me. Then I'd tell him he was overstepping a line using language like that with someone else.

If he minimises your concern or has a go for snooping, those are black marks against him. Wouldn't mean that he's done anything - just that this is your HUSBAND - it's in the job description of a good one to care about your feelings and respect your concerns.

Logg1e Thu 06-Mar-14 06:56:49

I think that the style and spelling is embarrassing.

Yes they are sounding each other out. It's weird and cringy and inappropriate.

Finola1step Thu 06-Mar-14 07:09:05

Very odd and cringey on both sides. Agree that nothing has happened but sussing each other out. Cabrinha is spot on.

a client's husband has sent me a few emails (she must have given my email) regarding some work advice, and I can tell that he is attempting subtle flirting in it. I have to respond as I can't be rude (risk losing client) but my emails are so unbelievably formal it's like a robot has typed them.

It was funny the other day as I mentioned something he had sent me whilst his wife was there, and he turned the colour of a tomato. I think the emails will stop now!

With these emails there is certainly a level of flirtation on both sides. Hope you're ok OP.

Theoldhag Thu 06-Mar-14 07:34:36

Defiantly rings alarm bells, this needs nipping in the bud pronto.

They are defiantly sounding each other out, how disrespectful to you sad

What do you plan to do?

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore Thu 06-Mar-14 10:54:31

Has he mentioned to you that he's had any business contact with her at all?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 06-Mar-14 10:59:48

They may not be emailing but texting. I'd be tempted to text him "There is so much I would like to talk to you about - do you think that?" and see how he reacted. Definitely chat tonight.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 06-Mar-14 11:00:39

They may not be emailing any more but texting.

brianbennettfan Thu 06-Mar-14 11:19:50

What everyone else has said, especially Donkeys. I would be amazed if your DH's final remark was the end of it. So sorry OP. Have been there, these suspicions of burgeoning inappropriate relationships are vile.

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 11:47:12

I am stunned I quickly checked his phone this morning and there were a few messages from the beginning of the year.

He basically txt her to see if she was going to the New years eve party that we were and she replied that she didn't want to go but that he should think of her.
He replied at midnight that he was thinking of her (I didn't go to the party in the end).

The next day he has asked when he can meet her.

Then nothing and 2 weeks later he has text her from abroad about how his work is going there she replied. Nothing of any note.

Then it seems like they were meant to meet and didn't they both say how much they miss each other at the end of the text.

Oh my god what am I going to do this doesn't look good or like my DH to be like this - he never looks at other women and is obsessed with work.

I feel like I can't think straight and feel sick.

haveyourselfashandy Thu 06-Mar-14 12:40:05

Ask him.
Don't let him bullshit you.This isn't appropriate at all and he is out of order.
Hope you're holding up ok

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 06-Mar-14 12:45:11

Okay based on that I would now look at bank statements, receipts, diary dates, any unexpected trips away.

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 12:47:41

I am just really really shocked it is not the man I know at all.

We have been together for 20 years and although we have had a few hard years and a lot of marriage counselling things had seemed so much better for the last couple of years. I thought everything was OK now we were pottering along fine and thought we were happy.

He is an amazing Dad and he works really hard (away most of the time).

I will speak to him but wonder if I should do more investigating first. I can't think

BuzzardBird Thu 06-Mar-14 12:48:36

You need to talk to him. It sounds like they have already had something going on unfortunately. sad

WhateverTrevor83 Thu 06-Mar-14 12:52:11

Oh blimey sorry OP thanks

knickernicker Thu 06-Mar-14 12:59:27

If you confront him now, you'll need to keep evidence and be strong and assertive because he'll act hurt that you've snooped and will minimise what he's done. Then they'll cover their tracks.
My feeling is knowledge is power. Wait, get more evidence if you can.
They both spelt advice as advise. That's a bit naff.

WhateverTrevor83 Thu 06-Mar-14 13:01:28

Just a typo I think RE spelling.
The tone is more naff than anything else..... bleurgh.

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 13:06:47

yes that is probably my bad spelling.

I just don't believe DH would do this he is very very straight and not the type. Really.

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 13:07:36

I think will try to get into his emails again and go back see if there are any more?

What else I just cannot think.

JohnFarleysRuskin Thu 06-Mar-14 13:11:27

If they are saying they miss each other and this has been going on dice before? January then yes, it looks like an affair.

Sorry op. I wouldn't say anything yet. I'd prepare and watch for a day or two.

MyPreciousRing Thu 06-Mar-14 13:12:04

I'm sorry OP, you don't need anymore.
You have enough.
Confront and don't let him blag you.

MegaClutterSlut Thu 06-Mar-14 13:26:10

I think most wives/husbands think there spouses are 'not the type' to cheat. I'm sorry op but it sounds very suspicious to me.... I really hope I'm wrong

Confront him.

My ex husband was absolutely not the type either and I had no suspicion of a affair till he told me about it himself. It was the absolute last thing I would have expected from him. And yet it had been going on more than a year by then.

Lots of sympathy for you OP. Bide your time and gather some evidence before you confront him.

knickernicker Thu 06-Mar-14 15:28:16

Go away for the weekend with friends. If its an affair, he'll use the time to meet with her if there's anything going on. Usr your time while he doesn't know you know to get used to the betrayal,and bound your strength to move on.

knickernicker Thu 06-Mar-14 15:28:49

Not bound, build

russianfudge Thu 06-Mar-14 15:30:18

This has made my stomach churn on your behalf op. I am so sorry.

Nothing compares to the feeling you have right now.

Is what you have discovered enough that he won't be able to blag you? Unless you are 100% convinced then you need to be strong and do some more snooping. Do you have someone in RL to hold your hand/ take the kids for a bit. When I discovered the "evidence" I fell to the floor and was stuck there for a good two hours sad

At the moment you have the evidence of an emotional affair. What does that mean for your marriage? Ie. where do you draw your line?

russianfudge Thu 06-Mar-14 15:33:00

If he's been so careless as to leave the messages on his phone all that time, he will have been careless elsewhere.

struggling100 Thu 06-Mar-14 15:42:48

Ouch, ouch, ouch. That new year's thing clinches it for me that this is beyond just a bit inappropriate. You don't text a business associate at midnight to tell then you are thinking of them. Sorry, OP. I can imagine how much you are hurting right now.

I think if I could hold it together, I would remain tight-lipped about this, and look for absolutely decisive proof. Take copies of everything in case he gets wind that you're looking and starts to delete things - take pictures of the texts if need be. (You will also need to keep going back to them to stay strong as you make decision).

russianfudge Thu 06-Mar-14 15:45:18

Yes and sit down with your family calendar and his emails and the dates of the texts so you can piece together the story. Does she have an open Facebook page? It sounds mad but it may give away any trips they took at the same time hmm

Is he away at the moment so you have space and time?

nigella123 Thu 06-Mar-14 17:04:20

Ok this is just getting worse and worse. I have got into his email and found the most horrendous email from over 2 years ago.

Basically it says how stunning he finds her. He says he has thought of her every day since he saw her which was 3 years prior to that. We lived abroad for 2 years of that and it does appear they had no contact then although I cannot know that right now. He says she is in his head and he knows it is always going to be like that.

He says he has never felt a connection like he has with her and whenever he see's her her around it is torture as he is desperate to touch her.

He said he is thinking of moving into a flat and is there any possibility that she would like to see him if he was single.

At that time we were thinking of separating after a few hard years and we have spent a lot of years in a way living like flat mates and sometimes not even friends if I am honest.

She had replied that she felt the same.

Then he has sent her another email a week later saying "I can;t do this my children and family mean everything to me."

This looks like it could have been going on for years.

I am devastated and feel completely numb and absolutely devastated. I knew we weren't madly in love but was not expecting this.

Thank you all for your advise it means everything to me.

Goodadvice1980 Thu 06-Mar-14 17:07:18

OP, if he wants a bachelor pad to indulge his crush/fantasy with her send him on his way!

You deserve better than this.

worriedsister30 Thu 06-Mar-14 17:12:53

What a weak willed, foolish man. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

worriedsister30 Thu 06-Mar-14 17:14:54

Are you printing/ saving the messages? make sure you do, and password protect the file or email them to yourself.

Over the next few days your mind won't be your own so you will need to refer back to them.

memyselfandl Thu 06-Mar-14 17:15:29

Print the emails out and hand them to him when he comes in the door. Say nothing let him do the talking.
He has dug himself into a huge hole that l can't see him crawling out of. He is not a good dad and husband if he is spending time thinking and wanting this woman.
Take control and give him the bachelor life he wants--even if it is just for you to get some breathing space

JohnFarleysRuskin Thu 06-Mar-14 17:18:17

Oh I'm sorry to hear this.

But well done for digging further. Now you know.

What an awful shock. what a duplicitous bastard.

Xoticdreamz Thu 06-Mar-14 17:24:14

Really sorry OP. You don't deserve this .

Logg1e Thu 06-Mar-14 17:34:01

I agree he's going to deny and minimise (who wouldn't if caught out like this?) so it's very important that you have clear in your mind what is the truth and what you want to happen next. I'd present it to him as a fait accompli, e.g. I know you've pursued another woman, I have email and phone evidence. What's going to happen next is that you take your bags (which are packed behind the door) and leave. Please text me the address of where you're staying so that my lawyer can be in touch.

BetterThanASlaterUpYourNose Thu 06-Mar-14 17:54:08

You deserve so much better than this cheating fool.

Wishing you lots of strength Nigella123 flowers

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 06-Mar-14 17:57:36

I am sorry OP. Logg1e is right, it is unthinkable he can swan in and act like Mr Good Family Guy while you go through the motions. This stops now, if the DCs are out of earshot or round a friend's so much the better.

WhateverTrevor83 Thu 06-Mar-14 17:57:36

Oh god... it just get worse...

Well, at least now you know about the feelings he has/has had for her. Even if you're yet to find out if anything physical has happened.

I think giving him the emails calmly and then waiting to hear what he has to say is a good idea.

It'll be tough though of course. Sorry op x

whattoWHO Thu 06-Mar-14 18:06:11

Any chance you could go out this evening to get your thoughts straight before confronting him with your printed evidence?

Not to dodge the issue, just to start getting your head about what questions you want to ask, what level of their relationship is a deal breaker, whether you want him to look leave the house etc.

But this is just my suggestion, not necessarily a good idea - we all handle things differently.

Good luck x

Finola1step Thu 06-Mar-14 18:07:03

Copy and save emails first. Print them. But before you confront him, be very careful regarding your financial position.

Have you got access to all bank accounts? Have you got your own bank account that you could transfer money into if need be? Get copies of any and all financial and legal documents. Bank statements, insurance policies, shares and bonds if you have them.

The reason I suggest this is because once you confront him, that could well be it. And if he holds all the financial cards, then you could be in a very vulnerable position very quickly.

He is a cheating liar who simply can not be trusted. Certainly do not trust him financially.

WhateverTrevor83 Thu 06-Mar-14 18:08:51

Whoops yeah... suss out your situation first of course.

We're all thinking of you

nigella123 Fri 07-Mar-14 03:21:44

He was out last night managed to do bit more digging.

There are a few emails along the same lines - that they are connected, massive attraction never felt before, she is beautiful etc

From what I can tell though they have long periods of NC but nothing seems to change for either of them. They just seem to fall back into "you're in my head and always will be" type talk.

They don't seem to have seen each other just sporadic emails - "happy birthday can't believe I haven't heard from you for 4 months" and stuff.

It does seem to have gone on like this for 7 years though with no outcome and there is the email about him loving his family.

It is so odd.

I just don't know what I am going to do thankfully I haven't had to face him - he was out last night for work and then slept in the spare room. He goes to the gym before i'm up although I haven't slept a wink but he doesn't know that.

How could he behave like this and behave so happy family with us and even with me he has been so much better these last couple of years and things have really improved - how can he do that if he has feelings for someone else?

stopeatingbiscuits Fri 07-Mar-14 03:42:01

I just read this thread - you poor thing your mind must be racing. I think you need to confront him and prepare yourself for the worst. It is possible from what you say though that this has been an e-mail / text only thing that for whatever reason (ego?) he has kept going - ie when it came to actually meeting up to take it further he couldn't bring himself to? That would seem unlikely but from what you say there is no evidence yet of anything physical having happened?

Lemsy Fri 07-Mar-14 03:55:43

Hi Nigella,

So sorry this is happening to you.. (hugs). It sounds at the very least he has been having a long term emotional affair, probably more. Is she married? He comes across as being ridiculously infatuated, it would probably go nowhere in real life.

That said, this is no small thing and you obviously need to confront him but echoing Finola's post please do everything you can to protect yourself. You are at an advantage with him not knowing that you know and he doesn't seem to be planning to leave you. Try not to go tearing into a confrontation without preparing yourself first. Easier said than done i know but you will thank yourself later.

As to why he can behave like this, i wish i had an answer. My best one would be is that he just hasn't grown up. Not very attractive, you can do much better. And you will.

Hope you manage to get some sleep and talk to someone in real life, it must be such a shock.

Take care x

twentypastaftereights Fri 07-Mar-14 04:19:11

Keep a calm head and get all your financial ducks in order.
Print off emails, copy phone messages and anything else. Make a couple of copies and keep one in a safe place where he cannot find it.
Go buy a small folder to present your findings in. Make a cover page with something like "You Twat" as the heading and give it to him.
Contact OW via sms or email with minimum words such as "I know about you and my DH"

Then sit back and let them stew and panic whilst you take the time to decide what you want to do about it.

twentypastaftereights Fri 07-Mar-14 04:20:00

I forgot.

Make an extra copy for her husband if she has one.

nigella123 Fri 07-Mar-14 15:00:29

yes she is married. She has 2 DC and I know her through a friend of a friend although not very well. What's worse is I have always liked her. I can see why DH would fall for her he probably couldn't believe his luck she is one of those women - very confident I think she used to be a model not sure though. She has her own business she is popular etc I can't see her doing what she's done but she has I know that now.

Thinking about the emails and the texts I do think it seems they don't see each other very often but they do both seem infatuated and there is no pattern really to who contacts who first although if i was being honest i would have to say DH.

I feel like I don't want to confront him because what is he going to say.

I know he loves the children and I thought he loved me but maybe he just wants to keep me here and not have me run back home 1000's of miles away. But I don't feel like that we have been getting on so much better lately it doesn't make sense.

And why would they stay in contact but not meet that doesn't make sense either.

I just can't get my head around it.

Did he just want attention? To be honest though why pick her if that is all he wanted and the tone of his messages are as if he thinks they are soul mates, not looking for a shag which feels worse - I honestly think I would prefer the corny affair?

worriedsister30 Fri 07-Mar-14 16:07:05

Yes, I have always found the thought of an emotional affair as worse. If there is a spectrum - either feels utterly heartbreaking.
The intimacy between a husband and wife goes so much further than sex as you can literally have sex instantly and with no emotional attachment whatsoever.
An emotional affair is a complete betrayal. But a lot of people see it differently.
I'm worried you sound like you may be starting to minimise a bit sad I can understand why. If you act on this then you are on a terrifying path. He does love his kids. But he doesn't love you. At least, not in the exclusive way we want a husband to.

nigella123 Fri 07-Mar-14 16:27:40

but if he likes her so much why isn't he making more of an effort to actually see her? If he likes her so much why hasn't he slept with her?

Maybe he genuinely doesn't like her and just wanted some attention?

I don't know I just feel so depleted.

Amicus1966 Fri 07-Mar-14 16:38:41

I don't think either of them has any intention to sleep with each other. It looks like they both seem to get a thrill from massaging each others egos by constant flirting. They are enjoying the chase and the secrecy but it all appears a bit childish as in the way schoolgirls mooned over boys in their class. The boy would feel all manly at knowing a girl fancied him but in rl it never goes any further ITSWIM.

memyselfandl Fri 07-Mar-14 16:56:34

Make them both stew.
Confront her by email just at the time you confront your husband. Don't let them get a chance to get their story straight.
I would also add that a copy of their "love in " is being sent to her DH. You don't need to do it tho the threat should be enough to put them into a blind panic.
What do you wan to happen here OP? you head must be all over the place.He can't deny it but can you forgive him knowing that he has been lusting and dreaming about OW and giving her the headspace where you should be?

nigella123 Fri 07-Mar-14 17:18:43

but in a way I think you can't help your feelings just what you do and I don't think he has actually done anything?

I don't know.

JohnFarleysRuskin Fri 07-Mar-14 17:20:07

He's doing plenty op!

Logg1e Fri 07-Mar-14 17:21:43

He's done far more than I could stomach I'm afraid OP but I suppose if I'm honest his reaction would count for a lot.

Jan45 Fri 07-Mar-14 17:24:15

Jeezo, he's done a good one on you, as has been said, gather as much evidence as you can find.

It's an emotional affair, I think worse than just meeting for sex.

Of course he likes her, he's infatuated, and so is she by the sounds of it, how do you know they haven't met, they will be texting too no?

Sorry OP, this is awful. You must confront him when you are ready. You should be looking into your finance options in case you split.

Cabrinha Fri 07-Mar-14 17:35:05

Well let's just say he can't help his feelings.
His loves someone else. Not his fault.

Has he "done" anything?

Yes he bloody has!

He's TOLD HER!!!!!!!!
He has told another woman that she is his soulmate.
Read that back.
Has he done nothing?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 07-Mar-14 17:41:09

If your H has said all that you have mentioned here and kept up contact for so long it is hardly a flash in the pan.

she is married. She has 2 DC so either she worried her H would find out and put the brakes on or she likes collecting married men.

It is your H's actions that are your main concern. She could be God's gift to men but that shouldn't matter, as far he's concerned - he's married to you. Please don't give him any ammunition by making unfavourable comparisons or think of him as settling for less.

KatieHopkinsEvilTwin Fri 07-Mar-14 17:42:14

He's done enough to make you feel numb and heartbroken. He's done enough to make you have to go through his emails etc.

You might recover from this op but I think you need to stop and think. You know the truth and how you feel about it today might be lots different to how you feel about it in 6 months.

I'm sorry you are going through this op.

Finola1step Fri 07-Mar-14 17:59:45

Oh Nigella he's done plenty.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Could you ever imagine yourself having a flirty, emotional affair via text and email on and off for 7 years? No, I didn't think so.

This is all one big mutual ego boost. Probably no physical affair because that would be "wrong" in their eyes and they don't want to be seen as the bad guys. It serves their own purpose to keep it all on a fantasy, what if level. That way, they can still have their private thoughts and in jokes but they keep their families, cosy home life and reputations.

It stinks, it truly does. For 7 years, your husband has been fantasising about another woman. Not some out of reach celeb or porn star, a real life woman who reciprocates his feelings.

I would bet that their general plan is to wait until all the children are grown and then run off together into the sunset to live happily ever after. Fantasies and nonsense.

As I said previously, get your finances sorted before you confront. He's had 7 long years to mull this over. Who knows how much he might have squirrelled away.

He's done something alright. He's treated you like a fool Nigella. Sorry to be so harsh.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 07-Mar-14 18:10:11

Not to mention if he had this little fantasy going on all the time and you were unaware of it, what is to stop him from picking up with some other female? That extra zing, the sparkle, the flirtatiousness, the compliments - dare I ask, have you had much of that the past seven years?

even with me he has been so much better these last couple of years

Gee, lucky you, he made more of an effort, does that mean he was just throwing you crumbs five years before the past couple of years?

You can't stop an adult who has decided they are going to stray but if you are hoping that by ignoring this it will all be as if it never happened I think you are dangerously close to deluding yourself.

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Fri 07-Mar-14 18:43:30

Nigella It comes down to if you are happy to be second best. If not, print everything off, leave a copy on the kitchen table for him when he comes home to an empty house and leave.

worriedsister30 Fri 07-Mar-14 22:38:31

I'm rely sorry, but how do you knowable hasn't slept with her?

WhateverTrevor83 Fri 07-Mar-14 23:27:45

Sounds like they are enjoying the drama and nonsense of not being allowed to be together - they seem to think they are Romeo & Juliet! It must have been awful for you to read but it does sound like a very hollow ego massaging EA out of a Mills & Boon....

Not sure what you'll do OP of course but we're all supporting you and rolling our eyes to the skies at his ridiculous behaviour.


WhateverTrevor83 Fri 07-Mar-14 23:28:52

Sounds like they are enjoying the drama and nonsense of not being allowed to be together - they seem to think they are Romeo & Juliet! It must have been awful for you to read but it does sound like a very hollow ego massaging EA out of a Mills & Boon....

Not sure what you'll do OP of course but we're all supporting you and rolling our eyes to the skies at his ridiculous behaviour.


WhateverTrevor83 Fri 07-Mar-14 23:29:09

Whoops duplicate

GarlicMarchHare Sat 08-Mar-14 00:16:49

This began five years ago, if I have it right.

When did the bad patch in your marriage start?

GarlicMarchHare Sat 08-Mar-14 00:20:54

Oh, 7 years, I'm sorry.

Do sleep and eat, etc, nigella. I'll be thinking of you - it's so horrid to go through this.

daytoday Sat 08-Mar-14 08:37:45

I'm so sorry this is happening, but am just wondering how you know they haven't been physical?

I doubt very much this attraction would be so strong without some sort of physical contact ?

diddl Sat 08-Mar-14 09:01:27

"You are amazing and I am your No 1 fan and chairman of your fan club."

I'd have to leave him for that alone.

I'd have no respect for a grown man who could write such drivel & would be embarrassed by him tbh.

Spiritedwolf Sat 08-Mar-14 09:07:00

Sorry that you've got this to deal with. At first I wondered if it was just a bit of being a bit of unprofessional, silly gushing over someone he admired professionally, but people called it right given your later discoveries.

I haven't read it but Shirley Glass's book - 'Not "Just Friends" ' is sometimes recommended on here for people trying to gather their thoughts after discovery of an affair/emotional affair. I don't know whether it is aimed at those who have decided to try repair the relationship rather than leave it or whether its more open to the undecided and those certain they want it to end.

If he often stays away overnight for 'work' I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the affair has been/could have gone on to be physical. But it doesn't have to have been physical for you to find the behaviour unacceptable. He hasn't been treating you with love and respect.

Would you have done this to him? is a very good barometer of whether you feel he has done something wrong. If you would have felt that such actions were disrespectful, hurtful and a betrayal of him, then he ought to have had the same consideration for you.

Take care, you don't have to rush your response to this. But you deserve so much better. thanks

something2say Sat 08-Mar-14 09:16:51

I think he hasn't done anything because he knows it's wrong.

But he has been thinking about it.

Tell me, are you a career woman? She is, he is a career type. Could it be that that's what he values?

Like the others say, I think the fact that he feels these things is a put down for you. You deserve someone who thinks that the person you are is the pinnacle of women. X

VortexOfDisaster Sat 08-Mar-14 09:30:28

So sorry to hear what's going on. It's really tough, whatever the outcome. It will probably take you a little while to get your head around things. Do you have someone you can confide in?


thelastlifeline Sat 08-Mar-14 11:57:28

I'm with knickernicker, you need to snoop some more. If you go to him with the little that you have, it may only serve to make him cover his tracks more - if there are tracks to cover that is! Keep looking. I hope for your sake that it is as innocuous as it sounds right now. X

nigella123 Sat 08-Mar-14 14:54:32

Sorry I haven't been able to post but thanks everyone for your support.

No I am SAHM and I do think you are right something2say I do think that is part of his attraction for her I have heard him pass comment on her before and how well she has done. I don't think she is particularly happily married from what my friend has said about her in the past. As I say she is very likable and very women friendly she is not all over the men she doesn't even seem to notice them. If she see's DH out she is perfectly nice but i have never seen her bother with any men she is more likely to chat with the women. She is confident though and always looks glamorous - she doesn't have the "mum" look. But i don't think I do either really.

We have 3 DC, 15, 10, and 4 and if I am honest I have always but he DC first but I wanted us to be a strong family. He works away abroad a lot. There always seems to be a child in the bed and he has slept in the spare room a lot due to his irregular flight times and all of that. We had a few bad years and did talk about separating and getting divorced. He never helps around the house and is away a lot and seems to think because I am a SAHM I should be doing it all.

We had a lot of marriage counseling and things were on track i thought.

There is no mention in any emails to imply they have gone away together they actually don't even appear to have seen each other much and whilst there are lots of requests from him to do so and she always seems to want to it does look like for some reason they don't.

There are some I have found to his friends asking them to invite her to things which has made me cross and sick. His friends have just laughed it off - that was a while ago though.

It does look by his emails that a few years ago he was completely infatuated he is unbelievably gushing to her. He does talk to her about wanting to be on his own and just staying with me for the children (men so predictable)

The last couple of years though the emails are more sporadic although they do still talk to each other in very emotional terms. The also sometimes just ask how the other is or maybe send a random jokey thing. Not regularly though sometime every other week and sometimes months in between.

Really I just don't understand - if you want an affair have an affair but why this?

I feel like he is torturing me it is worse than him just having sex with a colleague or something because it looks as if there is feelings there? But if there were why wouldn't they see each other it doesn't make any sense?

After his last email there is no response do you think he has got her out of his system now maybe?

Logg1e Sat 08-Mar-14 15:00:44

Have you talked to him about it?

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Sat 08-Mar-14 15:08:15

In the gaps, could there be some other form of communication? Text or an alternative email address perhaps that you do not have access to?

BillyBanter Sat 08-Mar-14 15:31:33

You say you have had marriage counselling over they years?

It reads to me as if at some more difficult times in your marriage he has developed feelings for her and considered leaving the marriage as an option then decided that he wanted to stay in the marriage but still 'holds her in high regard' even though an affair is off the table.

It must be devastating for you to find all this. What do you want to do about it? Or what do you want to happen?

nigella123 Sat 08-Mar-14 16:02:22

yes billybanter that is what I am wondering if at some point they have developed a rapport and whilst he now doesn't want to be with her in that way they have formed some sort of bond. Not that he would leave me?

I don't know what to do or what I want to happen.

Logg1e Sat 08-Mar-14 16:07:57

I think that it's really unfair that he's attended counselling with you, professed to be committed to the relationship and been carrying on like this all the time. The dishonesty is so unfair.

BillyBanter Sat 08-Mar-14 16:10:11

Well some options are to kick him out without further ado, talk to him then see how you feel, arrange more counselling to bring it up there?

FabBakerGirl Sat 08-Mar-14 16:14:01

I think the messages sound very poncy and he needs to get over himself.

Then I read your further posts and it seems you are married to a dog on heat who actually has no balls.

You need to get control of your life now and decide if you want to stay with him - then you tell him all you know and tell him it stops this second, or you want out and you get yourself some legal advice and print off all their cringe making messages.

TheZeeTeam Sat 08-Mar-14 16:23:18

I think there is only one person who can give you the answers you're looking for here. So ask him.

I think he has been totally disrespectful asking his friends to invite her to events.
The humiliation of that alone would cause me to LTB.
Really cross on your behalf.

I think you should talk to him.
Also (I know I"m about to get flamed!) I think you should see it as a positive that they don't appear to have had a physical affair. He has obviously had the opportunity but not taken it, that suggests a strong commitment to you. It sounds more like a crush. He's stupid for telling her and it is incredibly hurtful for you though. Only you know if its a deal breaker.

AnyFucker Sat 08-Mar-14 18:21:53

If I found just one email to another woman saying "I wish I could be on my own, I am only staying with AF for the children, oh and btw I adore you ..." he would be out the door and told to go find himself on his own time

Where is your self respect, love ?

Wrapdress Sat 08-Mar-14 19:28:26

This is interesting trying to interpret other people's emails. It sounds like a mutual crush to me. They are trying to do the "right thing" by not getting further involved with each other, yet enjoy the high of the crush. They probably think they haven't crossed a line yet (although the spouses may think the line was crossed 50 meters back). They probably think they can still deny anything is going on.

I don't know why couples stay together "for the kids" having been one of those kids.

Nottalotta Sat 08-Mar-14 19:44:43

nigella I really feel for you. I've just read the whole thread and have to say, i would be devastated in your position. However, I will add, that it looks to me like your DH was moonibg over this woman while you were having a vad patch. He wanted to stay with you but has continued the contact, probably as some sort of 'feelgood' factor.

Now, I am a bit if a jealous type, and if my DH did this I would struggle to trust him, i would be forever wondering what he was up to etc.

But i also have double standards. I have had occasional email flirting with another man. Nothing as obvious as the things your DH said but still. From my point of view, it was a bit of a laugh and nothing was ever going to come of it. It was an ego boost, a bit of attention.

It was also wrong and has stopped because I realised how bad it was, even if it meant nothing.

I'm just saying this because it soundslike this might be the case with your DH. It doesn"t make it right. But it could be 'just flirting'. And to contradict myself again, it would probably be something i would struggle to get over if it were my dh.

I think you need to have a calm open discussion with him.

KatieHopkinsEvilTwin Sat 08-Mar-14 20:06:26

notta I think your post was really honest and may help the op to understand the other side.

Nottalotta Sat 08-Mar-14 20:11:55

Thanks katie thats what i was hoping for.

Rupertandfifi Sat 08-Mar-14 20:45:16

Why did you end up at marriage counselling? Who suggested it?

ItIsAnIdeasGame Sun 09-Mar-14 04:09:59

Personally I wouldn't LTB. But I would yell him ypu know and see how you both handle the fall out. Your relationship has changed forever but it doesn't mean it is over.

gingercat2 Sun 09-Mar-14 04:31:01

I will probably get shot down for this, and I will say that I am not by any means young and naive, but it's possible he hasn't left because he loves you more than her (despite his comment that he's just staying for the kids)...... not that I think that excuses his behaviour at all.

CheerfulYank Sun 09-Mar-14 04:48:28

Oh OP. I'm sorry.

nigella123 Sun 09-Mar-14 05:24:10

So - we have spoken I didn't tell him anything I had found I just asked him about her outright.

He has in a nutshell said she 'was in his head' and he couldn't help it he didn't want her to be but she just was.

They are now friends/friendly and he wants to stay with me not her.

He says he does have feeling s but he doesn't want to act on them for the sake of our family.

He says she seems to be the same as isn't a threat.

They have never been physical only had the odd coffee very rarely like once a year even.

I am totally numb this time last week I thought we were a perfectly normal family.

But for this to go on for so long will he just switch his feelings for her off?

Can people do that? If he has liked her for so long will this just go away?

Licketysplit123 Sun 09-Mar-14 05:42:48

I've just read the whole thread OP and I'm sorry he's behaving like such an arse.

I don't understand why you didn't tell him what you have found?

At this point, he is always going to minimise and to get the full truth you need to present him with your evidence.

Did he offer you any reassurance about his feelings for you?

You are the first prize, not the consolation prize and I think you need to act like it or you will spend the rest of your life wondering if he really loves you or is there out of duty.

AnyFucker Sun 09-Mar-14 06:32:44

oh dear

YeahBitchMagnets Sun 09-Mar-14 07:01:34

This is really tricky isn't it? He's not having an affair, and he may not even be having an emotional affair, technically speaking, as it seems so sporadic and pretty one sided. She's either: completely stringing him along because she gains something out of it professionally, from his help and advice, or because she loves the flattery and the attention and is a tease, or she feels the same way he does and values his friendship but refuses to have an affair.

It's hard to know for sure but they both seem to have managed to betrayed you without actually doing anything. confused Which makes it really easy for him to say when confronted 'You want me to be faithful? Fine, I'm being faithful. I am a martyr who is denying my urges for the sake of you and my children, because that's what a decent, blameless man does.' And then he gets to make you feel unreasonable for feeling that's not good enough. sad

I find his cheesy over-sentimental language embarrassing and he's making a bit of a cock of himself tbh. There is nothing to be done except for you to decide whether or not you want to stay with someone who is just going through the motions while endlessly dreaming of being with someone else. It's like living a half-life for both of you.

Russianfudge Sun 09-Mar-14 07:40:13

Sorry op but he's a weak, foolish man.

When I met my dd's dad there was a man from my past whom I was close to and had had a physical relationship with. as a now adult woman I know he used me for sex/ company and it would never have been any more than that. When I was with dd's dad we would text and email, sometimes flirty, sometimes a bit like your DH and this woman. I used to fantasise about the day I would leave my partner and we would be together but when dd's dad and I finally split (I never really loved him and ultimately he cheated, though I never did in a physical way at least). I was 20-23 and very naive and immature. I didn't know about emotional affairs as a concept but I knew it was wrong to have half your heart somewhere else.

Anyway, as soon as I met my now husband I cut off all contact with this man. He was no longer my "plan B" as I always had referred to him. It was hard I suppose because there were feelings there but as a committed adult you realise you have to remove yourself from the the situation. The thought of even sending a "how are you?" Text now seems as bad as if I were to sleep with him to be honest. Because I would know what the undercurrent was. Most of all I have too much respect for my husband to have another man walking around thinking he had "one up" on him. It's so unkind!

At the very best (and at the other end of the spectrum he could have slept with her) he is a weak, unkind, selfish man.

memyselfandl Sun 09-Mar-14 07:51:41

He has in a nutshell said she 'was in his head' and he couldn't help it he didn't want her to be but she just was.

What a load of rubbish. She is only there because that's where he wants her to be.

This would be a complete deal breaker for me as he has obviously given some thought about being with her instead of you.She has taken a place in his head where only you should be.

He says he does have feeling s but he doesn't want to act on them for the sake of our family.
That has to be on of the most horrible sentences l have read on MN. He has considered cheating -what happens when the family grow up, will he hang about then?

I don't think l could stay with him after this. Kick the bugger out and let him live in his fantasy dream land.

MichelloBarner Sun 09-Mar-14 08:04:20

True, memyself but you cannot make yourself not feel that way about someone - if you feel it, you feel it. The question is, what do you do about it, (act on it? Not act on it? Ignore/deny it? to everyone else, if not to yourself, or admit it but stay married and faithful anyway?

And more importantly will your wife tolerate knowing that you feel it? none of us can promise or guarantee that we won't ever meet anyone else we develop a massive, all-confusing crush on, or actually fall totally in love with. We can only control how we choose to proceed when that happens.

MichelloBarner Sun 09-Mar-14 08:05:00

all consuming, not all confusing!

JohnFarleysRuskin Sun 09-Mar-14 08:13:27

I wouldn't stay with him. I'd be beyond embarrassed that my husband has been fawning over someone else for 7 years.

He thinks he is the big romantic martyr- he is just a twat getting his ego stroked at the expense of his marriage.

Yes exactly michellobarner.

Diagonally Sun 09-Mar-14 08:20:21

He won't act on his feelings "for the sake of our family"?

Not for your sake, OP.

What a huge sacrifice he's making, huh? Martyring himself on the altar of duty towards his family. How f'ing noble of him.

I'm so angry on your behalf.

Russianfudge Sun 09-Mar-14 08:29:29

But michello he could choose not to message her, have her invited to parties, give her business advice.

He says she's in his head and he doesn't want it that way... But he's doin all he can to keep her there.

What do we all do on the 1st January when we vow to give up wine and chocolate?? Do we order a load in and fill our cupboards with it? Do we spend hours googling images of it? No! His "attempts" and making her not in his head are pathetic. Given his feelings, they shouldn't even be in touch at all.

I agree with the person who said he's making himself some kind of marriage martyr. For heavens sake, has he created some kind of fairy tale where he's the first middle aged man to have a crush on another woman? He's nothing special, he is a complete cliche.

MichelloBarner Sun 09-Mar-14 08:31:40

yes I see your point, but that's why I said it's up to his how he chooses to deal with it. He's not having an affair but neither is he acting like a man who genuinely wants to concentrate on putting his wife first.

BuzzardBird Sun 09-Mar-14 08:35:51

I expect that all the fun of the secrecy has kept this going, not feelings. I think it will fizzle out now but you need to think about how you feel about him now. It's about you not him.

ItIsAnIdeasGame Sun 09-Mar-14 08:45:57

Michelle boarder speaks much sense..

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Sun 09-Mar-14 08:55:28

This situation comes down to how you feel Nigella. To some this would be a total deal breaker and the worst possible situation, to some it would be a bit 'Meh'. No-one but you is walking in your shoes. We can come on MN and say how we would feel given the post you have put on which helps you get perspective. Something I would need in your shoes. As I said in my previous post, it would be the feeling of being second best and having been that for years would make me leave but there may be other stuff that would not make that the case for you. I think he has behaved appallingly because even if he feels that way about her, it's the emailing (even sporadically) and the contact (coffees) etc. that has made it a reality. If he was decent, despite feeling that way he should not have let her know he felt that way and he should not have continued contact at all. It diminishes you but he has put his own feelings and hers above that.

Diagonally Sun 09-Mar-14 08:57:56

Yes, that's the point isn't it..he may say he's making a sacrifice but really he's just still having cake and eating it...albeit not very frequently or in person.

Which means the grand sacrifice exists only to make him feel better about his actions, and not because he loves and cares about OP.

A genuine person who realized an EA had gone too far would cut off contact with the other person by themselves because they realized their actions were a betrayal to their committed partner.

Has he suggested he will cut contact, OP?

sebsmummy1 Sun 09-Mar-14 09:02:21

My thoughts on this is that if she was available, he would have left. I suspect they are both staying in their marriages 'for the children' and if ever one of them becomes single (probably her), the other will walk away to be with them ( probably him).

Sorry OP but that is the long and the short of it.

Men would always rather stay in an unhappy marriage if the alternative is being on their own. Most men who walk away from a long term relationship are walking straight into the arms and beds of another woman. Women who leave tend to leave to be on their own.

StupidFlanders Sun 09-Mar-14 09:10:11

Do you believe him?
You haven't seen the texting that obviously went on to arrange the meet ups etc and I suspect they're now deleted.

memyselfandl Sun 09-Mar-14 09:20:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MerryWinterfel Sun 09-Mar-14 09:21:21

He has wasted years of your life! If he had been honest all those years ago you could have moved on and found someone who really loves you. I am wondering if you don't know what that feels like any more?

You still can, you don't have to live with someone who adores someone else.

MerryWinterfel Sun 09-Mar-14 09:22:34

How old are her children? How long until she decided to divorce?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 09-Mar-14 09:25:12

Well, lucky for you, whilst there are lots of requests from him to see each other, for some reason they didn't.

Lucky for you, his friends never invited her to things which he wanted them to so, instead they laughed it off.

A few years' ago he was completely infatuated, very gushing and did talk to her about wanting to be on his own and just staying with me for the children but lucky you, she played deaf or deflected that.

Nowadays emails are far more sporadic although they do still talk to each other in very emotional terms.

As WhateverTrevor83 said, a bit of Mills & Boon-ery, but if she or his friends had acted differently, I am afraid your H would have cut you loose.

CarryOnDancing Sun 09-Mar-14 09:36:12

There is no way I could share any part of my DH's heart with another woman. Whether it's acted on or not, they have a connection that only you should have together.

How very noble of him to stay with you despite the turmoil he's in with having feelings for someone else!
If he's staying for the children then all that will happen is you will give him yet more years of your life, then he will leave at the time you want to enjoy a new life and freedom together as you know your children don't need you the same. Instead, he will be setting up a new home and you will be bitter for giving him yet more of your time while he continues to take a dump on you.

Please don't let him continue to treat you this way!

JohnFarleysRuskin Sun 09-Mar-14 09:49:39

The thing is he has acted on it. Repeatedly telling another woman she is the love of his life is so sleazy and so twattish. He was doing all the running too. Not nice.

Greenrememberedhills Sun 09-Mar-14 09:55:58

OP it is no wonder at all you have had problems and counselling. Your H undervalues you and sees you as a mother and housewife. I suspect that your issues leading to counselling were at least in part die to his infatuation with this woman, and the knock on consequences for your relationship.

I wouldn't tolerate it. I would boot him out and see how much she remains in his head after that.

Millyblods Sun 09-Mar-14 10:07:05

Nigella you have said that you and your DH are not in love....what do you mean by that. You sat you put tge DC first ti tge extent that there was ways a child in your bed and your DH sleeps in the spare room. You have also said that you both had decided to split up but after counselling have got back on track.
Do you have sex and is it passionate? It sounds to me that what your DH has told you is his truth. He is nit in love with you but has stayed for the children. It seems like the " in love " has gone for you both. You could tell him to go or you could both decide if there is anything here left to salvage and could you both find passion for each other again.

Millyblods Sun 09-Mar-14 10:08:27

Sorry sent from my phone and it has a mind of its own wink

daytoday Sun 09-Mar-14 11:11:41

Sorry, I don't believe they haven't been physical. I think they have kissed at least.

StupidFlanders Sun 09-Mar-14 12:14:39

Me too.

nigella123 Sun 09-Mar-14 13:27:49

Yes he has agreed that he will have no more contact and says that he does still love me.

It doesn't seem one sided to me she seems to have the same feelings as him and he said they both decided to just be friends and not be physical.

He has said in more than one email though that the reason he doesn't see her is because he knows what would happen if he did see her as he cannot be around her without 'wanting to do things to her" or "touch her" so I don't know if that is a good thing or not.

Whilst they only are friends their emails are not only friendly really.

I am starting to feel very fucking angry actually.

MerryWinterfel Sun 09-Mar-14 13:33:11

Good. Good for you! How dare he!

nigella123 Sun 09-Mar-14 13:36:37

Millyblods - yes we do have sex not as much as he would probably like and wouldn't exactly describe it as passionate but it is fine, i thought so anyway. We are just always busy and as I say he is away a lot.

Merrywinterfel - her children are 11 and 9. She always seems like quite a busy mum when I see her around. She is a busy person. I know her and her DH were not happy couple of years ago as well and my friend said there was a chance they were going to split but it didn't come to anything. They seem OK now. She never seems very interested in her DH but then again no one I know is?

AnyFucker Sun 09-Mar-14 13:43:40

Thank God you are starting to feel some anger, I was wondering where it was

What a Prince he is to deny himself this woman. Fucking ridiculous romantic fool. I couldn't stand to look at his stupid face in your situation. I am so sorry.

Noe of what he has said and done is a "good thing"

Why haven't you been honest with him about the extent of the evidence you have found ?

TheVictorian Sun 09-Mar-14 13:56:32

Aside from the emotional side of things, it seems the woman could be more interested in just friendships with males and seems more interested in the female variety.

FabBakerGirl Sun 09-Mar-14 14:07:51

Sometimes you can't help how you feel about someone but you can control what you do about it. No one is making him have cosy coffees with her once a year. No one is making him write embarrassing emails to her. No one is making him spout such crap about his feelings. I'm embarrassed for him.

myroomisatip Sun 09-Mar-14 14:42:28

I wonder if her possible split with her DH had something to do with your DH and his adoration of her?

daytoday Sun 09-Mar-14 14:43:00

If he's saying he can't trust himself around her, then I'd suggest there has been a transgression already - because he KNOWS he can't trust himself around her.

GarlicMarchHare Sun 09-Mar-14 14:53:47

Ouch. He's told you you're second fiddle, really. That must hurt like hell. You've every right to feel angry! He's been emotionally short-changing you for a very long time now. This makes a bit of a mocker of your relationship counselling, doesn't it?

GarlicMarchHare Sun 09-Mar-14 14:54:03

* mockery

MerryWinterfel Sun 09-Mar-14 16:43:44

Would it help you to talk it through with a Councillor (without your husband of course)?

Its such a lot to take on board.

higgle Sun 09-Mar-14 16:47:26

I'm not quite sure what a "Councillor" could do, a counsellor might be of some use, perhaps!

nigella123 Sun 09-Mar-14 17:01:00

myroomisatip - I am also wondering if her planning to split with her DH a couple of years ago had anything to do with my DH I could ask my friend to dig but how could i explain it plus I don't think they are that close that they would discuss stuff like that. Plus she knows her friend is my friend so she most likely would;t say anyway (sorry that probably doesn't make sense)

I feel so exhausted I can't talk to anyone right now. I am glad for all your messages though so thank you all for your support just trying to take it all in.

yes daytoday I was wondering why he would feel like he can't trust himself around her if nothing had ever happened?

Hedgehead Sun 09-Mar-14 17:06:11

Nigella, I've read the whole thread and read it originally when you first posted a few days ago. I lurked for a bit but now I have an opinion and I want you to read it.

I think that your H (and maybe her to some extent) suffer from some deep unfulfilled needs which have nothing to do with you or her H, and are not something that other people in the world can fix. They have both hooked on to the idea - your H more than her - that the other can fulfil that need (whatever it is). Deep down, your H knows this is not this case. She is not the answer, in the same way that you are not the answer, in the same way that NO other person is the answer apart from himself... but he feels that by continuing to allow this "relationship" with her to subsist over email, from afar, unrequited, he is indirectly nourishing a part of himself or relating to himself in a way which temporarily fulfils that gap for him.

I know that sounds very psycho-babbly, but no-one who has good access to their own feelings and needs behaves like this, and no grown adult - unless damaged in some way - creates this sort of fantasy/idealised relationship that he knows could not exist in reality, unless he has some serious issues with himself.

FabBakerGirl Sun 09-Mar-14 17:10:39

How were things with your H 2 years ago? Does anything point to you thinking he was planning on leaving you then as she left her husband?

Boot him out whilst you clear your head - give him the shock of his life!

He won't be expecting that - he will expecting you to ignore and carry on. The things he has written to this woman - well, yes. It is worse than a sordid drunken one night stand. It devalues you. It makes a mockery of you that they continued to meet up at social events for years afterwards, regardless of whether they slept together or not.

I'd bet money it was her decision not to take things further because he sounds so intense.

You need him to leave so he understands how much he has hurt you and if you do carry on together he needs to fight for you. Don't be passive.

MerryWinterfel Sun 09-Mar-14 18:14:10

ha, yes councellor, quite right!

emmelinelucas Sun 09-Mar-14 18:23:48


Russianfudge Sun 09-Mar-14 18:53:00

Can you trace back two years ago and relate it to our lives at the time?

I'm sorry OP, I don't know you. But you are settling for something a million miles below what you are worth. This guy is beyond weak.

ormirian Sun 09-Mar-14 21:19:32

He is a self-indulgent wanker. I wonder if ever, in all this romantic hankering he thought about you. Deciding to play the martyr and stay despite continuing to be in love with someone else doesn't count as 'thinking of you' btw, it counts as deception and selfishness. You can't help how you feel but you can help feeding the infatuation. He should have gone NC with her, decided to focus on you and attempt to rekindle, or been honest and left. This is the worst of both worlds, he keeps up the facade of a nice guy and good family man and he gets to keep his delicious fantasy. And you can do nothing because you didn't know and now you do he can shrug, hold up his clean hands and say 'but I didn't DO anything, see how good I was!'

Gah! Sickening. Kick him out, at least until he takes you seriously and tries to comprehend what he has done. Twat

myroomisatip Sun 09-Mar-14 21:37:07

you know, as this progresses, I am also finding it hard to think that nothing physical happened.

It is a very sorry state of affairs really. But it seems that he has her on a pedastal and where does that leave you? Not sure that this is something I could recover from, well actually, I am sure that I couldnt!

nigella123 Mon 10-Mar-14 04:11:23

Well a lot of you are right - he has kissed her!

It was over 2 years ago and just once and after that he had NC with her for 6 months.

Then after 6 months she emailed to wish him happy birthday. He was happy to hear from her and asked when they could meet up but it seems she couldn't. Then seems NC until he emailed to wish her happy christmas and then after that the emails pick up a bit.

What he is saying does ring true because it coincides with his emails. He still doesn't know i have seen them so he isn't fiddling about with his story.

He is very sorry.

I just feel depressed. Can hardly get out of bed.

Russianfudge Mon 10-Mar-14 04:34:24

So why does he think you are raising it Nigella?

It's horrible that he is providing a drip drip drip of info. Is he at least running the ship and telling the children that mummy's poorly? Maybe try to find that last bit of strength and use it to tell him how this week is going to go.

If you need to be in bed he needs to support you. Is he showing any remorse?

BeforeAndAfter Mon 10-Mar-14 04:50:42

I'm so sorry OP but I think he probably slept with her...

If they had opportunity for a kiss I can't believe it stopped there with all of the pent up passion they describe in their messages to each other.

He's following the script now and only confessing to the lowest 'crime' he can get away with. He'll drip feed until you present him with the evidence.

Has he not challenged you as to why you're questioning him? In his shoes I'd be decidedly confused if you suddenly started quizzing me about this woman.

nigella123 Mon 10-Mar-14 04:54:57

Yes he has been looking after the children and has been very remorseful. I don't think he has slept with her and I do believe what he is saying as it does tally with the emails and what it says in them.

ItIsAnIdeasGame Mon 10-Mar-14 04:58:39

He may have thought that kissing was a lesser crime. For all his protestations he does seem to have tried to kept on the right side of his moral line. I obviously understand that he is utterly misguided about this.

Russianfudge Mon 10-Mar-14 05:03:57

I guess it depends where they were but there aren't many situations as an adult where a kiss stops at a kiss.

The script is to confess to the smallest crime. Has he deleted any messages since you've confronted him? I'd demand to see his phone right now incase he's given her the heads up.

Are you strong enough to contact her and tell her he's confessed that they slept together, she what her reaction is?

Is he in the bed next to you? That's the worst. And sleeping soundly I bet

nigella123 Mon 10-Mar-14 05:04:54

yes I think he feels in a way he hasn't done anything wrong. He said the kiss made him realize the path he was going down and so told her that he cared about his family more and that there would be nothing between them.

Then there wasn't for nearly 2 years aside from the odd email.

Then in the last few months email contact seems to have increased plus he has met her once but he said they only discussed work. He said she is a good person and he likes her but he wants us a family more.

Russianfudge Mon 10-Mar-14 05:06:40

Saying all of that, even without sex there has been a huge betrayal so maybe it doesn't need a huge worming at this stage sad

Russianfudge Mon 10-Mar-14 05:08:41

I'm sorry nigella but he actually told you his other woman is a good person?confused

You really don't need to hear that. This man is a joke.

Why does he think you've raised it?

StupidFlanders Mon 10-Mar-14 06:18:54

As I said before; you never saw all the texts which will now be deleted. That's where the personal stuff would have come out.

Lovingfreedom Mon 10-Mar-14 08:13:23

Kissed her once? A likely story....unfulfilled needs? Hmm..


'He said the kiss made him realize the path he was going down and so told her that he cared about his family more and that there would be nothing between them.' - then why did he still contact her and ask when they could meet up. She said no. What would have happened if she had said yes?

OP - Please tell him to give you space and move in with friends or family. You are telling him this is okay because he is still there. Don't you see? Let him sort himself out and tell him you have a lot of thinking to do. Take control.

Tiredstilltired Mon 10-Mar-14 09:24:28

I don't necessarily think he slept with her. I know a lot of people who have had emotional affairs which included kissing and desire, but they couldn't take it to the next stage. For them it felt a step too far and a step there would be no coming back from.
Does he know about the emails? Hold back on what you know. How does he think you found out?
The length of time this has been going on would hurt. She has been 'in his head' for years. That would crucify me and make a mockery of all the happy times we had during that time. Most infatuations or crushes pass with time unless they are constantly being fed.
Thinking of you.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 10-Mar-14 09:28:00

Two things you said yesterday that I wondered about.

my friend said there was a chance they were going to split but it didn't come to anything. They seem OK now. She never seems very interested in her DH but then again no one I know is?

This friend of yours who knows her, are they close friends, you never had any impression she was trying to warn you?
The comment about her DH, do you mean he's a bit of a nonentity? Or that generally wives aren't interested in their own husbands?

Am not surprised you are feeling depressed. Has your H asked why you are all of a sudden asking about that female?

nigella123 Mon 10-Mar-14 10:43:46

No my friend doesn't know anything for sure she is closer to me than to her and would tell me if she knew anything - just what I remember her saying a while ago but nothing in depth. I don't know if they are close really just friends so OW wouldn't really tell my friend too much anyway I don't think.

I find in general that most of my friends are not really that interested in the DH but she is especially disinterested. Everyone I know married 15-20 years and everyone just seems to 'plod along'? Maybe thats just people I know or my perception that may not be correct.

I told him I had seen the texts where they said they missed each other and how much they had enjoyed seeing each other etc

Do you think given that it has gone on for so long that he will be able to forget about her?

nigella123 Mon 10-Mar-14 10:44:06

I know he wants to forget about her but do you think he can?

daytoday Mon 10-Mar-14 10:54:20

Sadly, I think you have more to find out.

You are constructing what you think happened in their relationship based on the written emails you have seen. How many phone calls or face to face conversations have taken place? What exactly did they do when they met up for coffee?

I think the written communication is the tip of the ice berg so to speak.

WhateverTrevor83 Mon 10-Mar-14 11:04:17

I know he wants to forget about her but do you think he can?

I don't know, I'm more interested in whether you can tell him to fuck off.

C'mon OP. You deserve soooooooooo much more than this. Let them play their pathetic love story out... it'll all end in a huge disappointment as anything built up this much over this amount of time is going to seem like it wasn't worth the wait.

BeforeAndAfter Mon 10-Mar-14 11:10:17

Sorry I know I'm going against the tide here but... They build up this intense emotional affair over years. They kiss and suddenly go no contact? I'm not buying it. I've been there - the need to have sex with the other person is feral. That's the point where you realise the line has been crossed and you go no contact.

Have you looked in his document folders? He may have letters or drafts of letters saved there. I'd search between the date parameters where you know they were building up this head of steam and then went no contact. Does he use his outlook calendar? If so go back and see what's in there. It's amazing what you can find.

WhateverTrevor83 Mon 10-Mar-14 11:12:16

Why devote all this time to snoop around.
Isn't all OP knows already bad enough?

BeforeAndAfter Mon 10-Mar-14 11:13:26


I think the question should be can you forget about her?

BeforeAndAfter Mon 10-Mar-14 11:13:50


I think the question should be can you forget about her?

AnyFucker Mon 10-Mar-14 11:40:27

OP, why do you keep asking us whether he can forget about her ?

This isn't about him now

It is about whether you are willing to sweep your husband's affair under the carpet like he wants you to, which if you do I would bet a large amount of money he will do it to you again

Either with her, or some other Lucky Lady that he falls into ridiculous romantic infatuation with

WhateverTrevor83 Mon 10-Mar-14 11:48:07

Yep - I agree with AF and Before. She's immaterial. It's about how you feel about him now and whether you have any respect or trust for him left.

Please don't let him mope over her any more!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 10-Mar-14 11:57:09

Plodding along doesn't usually mean partners treat each other with such disrespect. Maybe she is a good person because she told him to get a grip and stop pestering her. What was the good of the marriage counselling if this amazing 'rapport' or 'bond' with a third party never got brought up?

QueenofallIsee Mon 10-Mar-14 12:14:22

I am not an expert but if I were you, I would let the OW know that YOU know and have seen the hard evidence. Women like that are after the ego boost in a 'safe' (to them) way, once she realizes she has been caught out she will run a bloody mile. Then you can focus on whether you can get past what your husband has said and done.

drnoitall Mon 10-Mar-14 12:19:00

What a horrible, sickening situation. I really feel very sad for you.
I could not be with my dh if I knew his mind was elsewhere, his heart was longing for someone else, even if what you seem to believe is true and that he is trying to "resist" the ow.
That couldn't work, every touch, every kiss, every moment I'd be paranoid he was thinking of the ow woman. No can do, sorry but that I could not live with.
I hope you get the outcome that suits you and your needs
And not the outcome he wants because he's such a saint to resist.

Millyblods Mon 10-Mar-14 12:21:07

What matters now is what YOU want. Even if you want to try to rebuild your relationship you still need to separate for the short term. He needs to feel that he could potentially lose you and his family. But also yoy need to be by yourselves to go through the process of realising what he has done, grieving and then getting stronger. Then you will be in a better position to know your true feelings. Also do you want to be with a man who doesn't think you are his world and who is totally in love with you.? Surely anything less is not worth having. thanks thanks

Millyblods Mon 10-Mar-14 12:24:32

What matters now is what YOU want. Even if you want to try to rebuild your relationship you still need to separate for the short term. He needs to feel that he could potentially lose you and his family. But also yoy need to be by yourselves to go through the process of realising what he has done, grieving and then getting stronger. Then you will be in a better position to know your true feelings. Also do you want to be with a man who doesn't think you are his world and who is totally in love with you.? Surely anything less is not worth having. thanks

Russianfudge Mon 10-Mar-14 14:36:12

DonkeysDontRideBicycles makes a good point about the counselling - you go in to couples counselling expecting the other to be honest. Did you give up private feelings during counselling that left you feeling open and vulnerable? If so then he was making a fool of you I'm afraid because he didn't mention the small matter of being infatuate with someone else!

No one means to pick on you Nigella, I think we all just want you to stay angry!!

GarlicMarchHare Mon 10-Mar-14 14:43:25

OK, nigella, I'm going to give you permission to ignore it all, if you want. You will give him unspoken leave to conduct fairytale romances elsewhere, as long as he doesn't rock any boats, and you will have identical tacit permission from him. If you can live like this you'll be in good company - an awful lot of marriages work this way.

Do be honest with yourself, though. I thought I could do it, and it hurt like hell. I wasn't able to respect my partner without honesty on both sides, neither did I feel respected.

Doha Mon 10-Mar-14 18:33:25

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ormirian Mon 10-Mar-14 21:23:00

Doha! Stop it! Why would you want to be so pointlessly cruel? Don't you think nigella is aware of all this?

Please stop with the tough love everyone! Been there, done that, got the extra scars from the 'tough love' on this board. Nigella will get where she needs to be in her own time. Put the knives away. You're hurting her, the victim, not the cheating wanker of a husband.

merlincat Mon 10-Mar-14 22:09:12

Doha, have reported you. That was a disgusting thing to say; cheap holidays in other peoples misery is not MN at its best.

Doha Mon 10-Mar-14 22:13:20

ormirian l was not saying it to be intentionally cruel. I am sorry if it came across that way.
OP's DH has been obsessed with OW, living in his own fantasy world for a long time now. There seems to have been 3 people in this relationship for quite a while .
I wish you well OP, you have some hard times ahead of you and l really hope you manage to see this for what it really is. A full blown affair.

Doha Mon 10-Mar-14 22:16:08

There are some people on MN who jump to report if someone dares to put on paper what others have been thinking.
We had been discussing this thread at work and that was the first thing that was said--and not by me but agreed by many.

AnyFucker Mon 10-Mar-14 22:23:40

it may not be at all palatable, but what Doha says is nothing but the truth

and yes, I doubt that this thought had not already entered OP's head sad

Millyblods Tue 11-Mar-14 00:55:12

If OP didn't want people's opinions then she wouldn't have posted. It's not tough love, a lot of it is actually constructive even if she wants to stay together.

AbleAble Tue 11-Mar-14 01:00:56

Doha that is a horrible thing to write. Why would you write that?

SueEllenShotJR Tue 11-Mar-14 01:36:45

OP, an (emotional) affair does not automatically mean the end of a marriage. There's a lot to consider so take your time, think things through and do what's right for you and your circumstances.

ormirian Tue 11-Mar-14 06:50:39

Oh I don't know but IMO it wasn't palatable nor was it helpful or constructive. Her imagination will already be working overtime. The facts are

1. Her h has shat on their marriage. The extent to which or the manner in which he has done so is irrelevant.

2. She has to decide what to do.

Helpful is to offer advice or share experience isn't it?

SueEllenShotJR Tue 11-Mar-14 06:56:56

We have social rules in real life which mean we don't blurt out every single thought we have to other people, no matter how true it might be. We can still be supportive and helpful on the internet without rubbing faces in crap.

Lovingfreedom Tue 11-Mar-14 09:36:32

Yes but when you're getting all the minimising bullshit from your cheating partner it's useful to have the 'wake up and smell the coffee' comments on here. He's obv had an affair and he's obv obsessed with this woman

AnyFucker Tue 11-Mar-14 10:13:05

I hope to think that MN tells you the painful things that your family and friends skirt around (even though they are thinking it) because they are too close emotionally to the situation

How many times do we hear after a permanent split or whatever that the people close to you hate your ex's fucking guts but never felt able to tell you ?

Pepperami Tue 11-Mar-14 12:56:20

I hope to think that MN tells you the painful things that your family and friends skirt around (even though they are thinking it) because they are too close emotionally to the situation.

Also known as a good ol' twist of the knife!

FabBakerGirl Tue 11-Mar-14 13:06:12

"he likes her but wants us as a family more."

So he wants her then..

nigella123 Tue 11-Mar-14 14:08:15

Thank you all for your comments I still feel very confused though.

I just don't want to throw away a 20 year marriage because he has had coffee a few times with someone. I know he did have feelings for her but if he was 'obsessed' why doesn't he try to see her?

Actually answered my own question - he saw her last week but that was after 2 years.

Russianfudge Tue 11-Mar-14 14:13:07

Have you asked him that direct question?

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Tue 11-Mar-14 14:27:01

It wasn't just a coffee a few times though was it?

He kissed her, he told her he wanted to be with her, he says he can't be around her because he wants to 'do things with her'

Sorry OP but you are minimising quite dramatically here.

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 11-Mar-14 14:31:11

Im sorry op. This must be a shock.

I agree with the above. You are minimising. Have you been telling another man that he is your soulmate over the last seven years? Have you been saying that the only reason you are staying is the kids? Have you been sneaking around behind his back? Have you been having 'coffee' with men you 'daren't be alone with', men that you kiss?

I doubt it.

He has been chasing her.

GarlicMarchHare Tue 11-Mar-14 14:38:39

He went through marriage counselling with you, all the while thinking about another woman with love. He kept this from you and the counsellor, which invalidated the process. You didn't answer whether the problems in your relationship also date from the time he fell in love with her. Timelines can be valuable here.

Reading and discussing "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass will be helpful to you both, I think.

BeforeAndAfter Tue 11-Mar-14 14:56:15

I expect you're still in shock at this stage, hence the confusion. When you get angry you'll see things far more clearly and I hope you act decisively.

Here's a glimpse of your future if you convince yourself it was just a few coffees:

He pops out for a paper and it takes longer than it should - you'll be fretting and suspicious
He's away on business - you'll be fretting and suspicious
He's out with a friend - is he really with her?
His phone beeps to show he's got a message - you wonder if that's her and even if he shows you his phone you now presume anything incriminating has been deleted

And so it goes on until you've become this woman you don't recognise. I've been there - my ex was incapable of honesty. He specialised in lying by omission.

Pretending it was just coffee is a lose lose situation for the whole family.

Howlongwaylong Tue 11-Mar-14 19:29:08

Hi Nigella. I have been lurking on this thread with some interest and concern..partially because I have some experience of some of what you are going through

I found out three years ago that my OH had been contacting, taking for dinner, fantasising about a work colleague for around six months. He told me that if his world was different (ie not married to me) he would want to be with her. I am convinced that had I not discovered through looking at texts it would have continued to this day. He still works with her and I think the EA with her was only fully broken last year

I don't think shouts of LTB helped me or will help you. I am still with him because I love him no more no less. I am not a weak, feeble and needy woman, in fact I am now stronger than I have been at any time in our relationship. I made a choice to stay..but that came at some cost. I will never fully trust him again with my feelings and that is a hard way to live. He has made mistakes and he is a liar, and still makes mistakes and lies. That is something that you will probably have to face too if you stay

At the same time I sought out legal advice and know exactly where I would stand if we divorced. I live in an odd but loving relationship that is without delusion for me but with a love that in its own way nurtures me, the children and him and I am, for the moment happy with that. If things change then so be it I have the tools to deal with that as and when.

In my experience I doubt it has been a just few coffees etc and if you peel the onion there will probably be more. However, it is your choice how much you want to know and how you want to deal with it.

I hope this helps. Take care

Russianfudge Wed 12-Mar-14 09:02:02

How are you today nigella?

nigella123 Wed 12-Mar-14 12:33:42

Thanks russianfudge I am feeling a bit steadier today and not so wobbly.

I spoke to my friend about it yesterday and she thinks there is no way they have had an affair or that DH would.

She thinks it may have got a bit out of hand but she knows my DH very well and says he wouldn't do that to me.

Her recollection re OW marriage is that a couple of years ago (dates do tally) did ask her DH to leave but that he refused and wanted t make the marriage work and she appears to have just gone along with it.

My friend said she doesn't seem that happy with him but isn't as bothered about splitting up with him now as she was back then. MMMMM

Russianfudge Wed 12-Mar-14 12:46:50

Strange. Does your friend know about all the emails and meetings?

I'm glad you're feeling steadier. Could you do counselling again now that you can both be honest?

nigella123 Wed 12-Mar-14 12:51:59

Well I told her what I knew but obviously she doesn't know anything more than that. She doesn't think they have had a full blown affair and think s they probably met to talk about work and it's gone a bit too far.

She know's what my DH is like and doesn't think there is any way he would have an 'affair' she knows as well how much he loves his family.

She was really shocked when I told her.

Everyone is shocked that my DH had an affair too. Everyone.

It means nothing.

If the circumstances are right I believe everyone is susceptible to flattery and attention.

This is hugely raw for me atm, so sorry if this is upsetting...

Jan45 Wed 12-Mar-14 12:55:14

No offence but most men who have affairs love their families and it's always out of character, of course you're not going to think that of your husband. Your friend is being very supportive but it's not her you should be taking any leads from, it's yourself.

Russianfudge Wed 12-Mar-14 13:23:44

Yes, people literally had to sits own with the shock of it when my ex cheated. In fact my family members demanded evidence!

Millyblods Wed 12-Mar-14 19:01:02

Im sorry but everyone thinks it would never be their husband who would cheat but it happens, especially when things have been tough at home for whatever reason.

Joysmum Wed 12-Mar-14 22:26:36

I can't help but wonder, if she decided she wanted him, would he?

badbaldingballerina123 Wed 12-Mar-14 22:45:54

Sorry Op , but we just kissed is very often cheat speak for we had sex , it's very common. In your shoes I would call his bluff and I'd ask the question again, but I'd add that I had solid evidence. ICheaters are sneaky and manipulative and sometimes you have to resort to similar tactics to get the truth.

Seven years is a long time . In fact some marriages don't last that long. The idea he has put that much effort and emotion into it for that long , with no sex , well , I find that astonishing. Their relationship has already become physical with the kissing , and I think that's the biggest line to cross.

While your friend obviously means well , she really can not possibly know your Dh that well , or what he would or would not do. Your friend is grossly minimizing it.

Russianfudge Thu 13-Mar-14 08:08:01

I think also that friends prefer not to believe because when couples around you start cheating/ splitting it is very unsettling. It's much nicer to think that your friends husband who you trusted hasn't cheated because, well, if it happened to her it could happen to you.

I do t think your friend would be calculated but I think we all fall in to this trap and it's not helpful when a person is trying to trust their instincts.

Lucylloyd13 Thu 13-Mar-14 08:37:43

Being married does not mean that we will never be attracted to others or that others will not be attracted tous. It des mean not doing anything about it when it happens.

I don't think the emails are evidence of infidelity, just of that potential.

BitOutOfPractice Thu 13-Mar-14 09:01:43

I'm another one who has had to almost comfort people who have been so shocked and upset when I've told them what my ex did. They simply couldn't believe it. Double checked I was talking about the same person!

I feel very worried about this op. My bet is that something happened 2 years ago (and I don't mean just a kiss) and that, for one reason or other, they ended it. But reluctantly.

What are you planning to do. I feel for you I really do. This really is a head fuck

GarlicMarchHare Thu 13-Mar-14 13:43:47

I'm another one who has had to almost comfort people who have been so shocked and upset when I've told them what my ex did

Me, too, and it was serious emotional/financial/sexual abuse. If they can't or won't see that in a person, then naturally they won't see infidelity, which is usually better hidden.

Russianfudge Thu 13-Mar-14 16:10:54

Lucylloyd everyone's perception of what infidelity is is different - for me, finding someone else attractive, looking at them and fantasising very occasionally is not. Continually emailing another person who you are attracted to, pursuing them, asking friends to invite them to places you'll be, kissing them and telling them they are wonderful for seven years.. Is.

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