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Please help.

(290 Posts)
Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 07:03:56

I'm no saint, but I've put up with a lot from DP the past 4 years. In fact I'm now having counselling - not because of things he's done; I had issues before that - but all I talk about is him, and how I need to sort myself out for him.

I have hideously low self esteem and acute anxiety, I'm a shadow of my teenage self (not that long ago!). He was seriously immature when we met, but I made excuses for him over and over. He has changed loads now - the things he used to do are in the past. They still affect me deeply though, and he knows this, hence the counselling. Then this weekend we fell out, I went out in the car for an hour to get some space, and when I got back he went out. And didn't come home until the next day. With no contact.

I just can't forgive this, he did it purely to hurt me. The other times he's done shit like that he was stupid and thoughtless and got carried away with friends, but this time he clearly did it to punish me. I spent the night crying and self harming.

Oh and he's violent sometimes. That is my fault though, I can be very annoying and don't shut up and recently have started it first, i.e. I grabbed his back the other day. He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim?

He's lied and taken drugs behind my back a few items. Even when I was heavily pregnant. Drugs as in class a if anyone cares.

The crazy bit? I can live with the violence, I can cope with that. My own mother was a violent bitch so I've no hope really. It's rejection I can't take. So even though I need to leave him, I just don't know how I'll do it.

I mAnaged to leave my previous abusive boyfriend, but we lived in separate towns, had separate houses, didnt have children and I shamefully met someone else who distracted me from it all. Now I have none of those things on my side, we're all but married (wedding booked for this year!).

I'm meant to be ringing all the right people today eg womens aid, shelter. But, knowing me, it'll come to nothing. He'll come back from work on Friday night and I'll be too much of a wimp to do anything. And anyway I don't think womens aid will help because he's not actually abusive. He's not controlling or jealous in the slightest. He'd never put me down or try to stop me going somewhere (not that he has do, I rarely do!). But he doesn't fit in that category.

But I can't forgive him for the other night. Thanks for reading sad

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 07:11:43

I'm here, this is not you, very rarely would I say this but leave this bastard now! If you have till Friday you can do this. The man is abusive and will not improve.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 07:12:14

Oh loveyouthree sad I am so sad at your thread. There are many posters who will give you better advice but, having just looked at your last thread and now this, I just wanted to write and say please leave, leave the area, run fast with your dcs and start a new life somewhere else. Break this cycle of violence that your dcs are going to grow up with otherwise.

You DO deserve better than this. Living with violence is so not acceptable and your P and your mum should be locked away for a very long time.

Call the police NOW to report what happened yesterday I am shock, call Women's Aid, call then council to enquire about emergency housing, call shelter. You said he's away working this week, prime opportunity to escape.

thanks you can do this. You do NOT want to be with someone like this.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 07:15:51

HE IS ABUSIVE. Throwing a heavily pregnant woman across the room is ABUSE OF THE HIGHEST DEGREE. It is not normal behaviour and it's heartbreaking to see you think it is as that is all you know. I can't emphasise enough how badly you need to leave and discover a live without fear of violence.

Women's Aid will listen and they will understand.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 07:16:09

Life not live.

bragmatic Mon 10-Feb-14 07:16:17

You have a child, yes? How old?

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 07:22:40

Thank you. I think we're incompatible - couldn't be more different. But I just can't see him as abusive. I don't known why. If anything I am. I can be a control freak and sometimes when he's gone out I've rung him up and ruined his night by being so negative. But then he knows he can always shut me up with his hands I suppose.

I've always wanted to move away from here - it's a crappy little town I had to move to because my mum threw me out when pregnant with my first. But now I just don't have that energy anymore. even worse is that when i cut off my abusive parents they went to a solicitor ffs to get access to my children. I never "win" in life! People know how weak I am.

I know I've got this week but already I feel sick. I never do things behind his back and I feel so guilty. Plus it sounds trivial I know but the winter bill will be due soon won't it? The heating has been in constantly. It's in his name but if he moved out how the hell would I sort it? Fuck sad

We will help you BUT you have to be open to helping yourself as well.

"knowing me, it will come to nothing" is not a good place to start.
Please try "right, I can do this, plenty of others have".
Once you have that mindset, we will help you as much as we possibly can.

We can't help you if you refuse our help
we want to help you

JumpingJackSprat Mon 10-Feb-14 07:29:46

He is going to end up killing you if you don't leave. This is horrendous abuse and you don't have to take it. Please call women's aid. He hits you, throws you around, strangles you, rapes you. This is not normal. You're not responsible for any of this.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 07:30:59

They're 5,2 and 1.

Please can I just emphasise that he is not regularly violent. There could be nothing for months and then twice in a fortnight, nothing for a month then something small and so on.

I would be lost if he wasn't violent sometimes, it shows he cares to some degree. The worst thing for me is being ignored, I can't deal with it. And yes before I'm flamed I know this isn't right and this is one of the many reasons I asked for counselling.

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 07:32:29

Forget the fuel bill, first ring the children in sick, then phone women's aid, collect up any cash you can, bank accounts anything.

Logg1e Mon 10-Feb-14 07:32:52

You need to tell people so that this is irreversible, so that there's no going back to him.

Your understanding of what is ok and what isn't is totally misaligned, so you are describing things as "not that bad" which are actually dangerous and criminal.

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 07:34:20

If it's easier, tell yourself you are doing it because you can't stand being ignored, you will be able to sort it out in your head later.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 07:34:53

The thing is, I'm seriously upset now but this doesn't compare to the thought of him with someone else. I'm scared of that happening. And this town is full of his family and friends so I'd never leave the house if we split up. I'm not confident like some of you.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 07:37:27

Oh my love. You need help, to get away and to get your own head sorted over what is acceptable behaviour and you and in a healthy place, but getting away is the first priority. It's not incompatible, none of this is your fault and it's not because you 'start' it. He's an abusive bustard and your little ones are witness to all of this. For them and for you please find the courage to get out for good.

It doesn't matter if he hits you once or hits you every day. He is abusive and it is not OK. It is not normal to live like this.

He does not love you. What you describe is not love. Violence towards you does not show you that he cares, quite the opposite.

You are strong. You cut off abusive parents before. This is the same thing. You can cut him off too.

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 07:37:46

You don't need confidence, leave the town, tell women's aid they will help,
The thought of him with someone else is far less horrific than that of him hitting you while you are holding the baby.

willthiseverend Mon 10-Feb-14 07:38:11

OP I suspect that people like him would never change
Go and ask for help
Your low self esteem is quite understandable in situation while dealing with abuser so you should be careful because he will try to use it over and over again

gamerchick Mon 10-Feb-14 07:38:55

Do it for your kids. I doubt that either of you give them a second thought while you conduct this dysfunctional relationship.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 07:42:40

Phone fail. Bastard. I rarely swear on mn but I will type that again. Bastard. He's a criminal as someone has said up thread. Please don't be afraid to ask for help. New life, new city. Full of opportunity. It can be done. You can do it.

It's not to do with confidence, everything to do with basic survival. There is only so long you can live like this. Or he will end up killing you or one of your dcs. He's lucky he hadn't forced a mc or early labour with his physical abuse of you sad

Logg1e Mon 10-Feb-14 07:45:20

Would you hit your children to show that you love them?

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 07:45:53

The last thing she needs is more guilt gamer.

dollius Mon 10-Feb-14 07:47:49

This man has beaten and raped you repeatedly. It doesn't matter how frequently it happens. Do you want your children to grow up thinking this is normal? Like you have done because of your abusive parents?

You must tell your GP or health visitor what is going on, call Women's Aid and get out. You owe it to your kids honey.

dollius Mon 10-Feb-14 07:49:08

His beating you does NOT show he cares. It shows he is a violent bastard. And it is NOT ok for him to rape you just because you don't feel much up to sex. Who would with a violent thug for a husband?

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 07:54:02

Are you pregnant now?

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 07:54:48

Ironically the dc are all sick so will be off school/nursery anyway. I am a shit mum gamer, I'll probably swing from upset to anger all week and end up shouting at the kids. No I wouldn't hit them to show love, that's a good point.

In bed sobbing, wondering if I should try to do this amicably with him. Oh I don't know, I can't do this, everyone will hate me. He's the baby of his family and I'm the crazy bitch who stole him and got pregnant.

He wouldn't kill me, he said he'd murder me and go to prison if I ever cheated on him - and I'd never cheat on him.

AtSea1979 Mon 10-Feb-14 07:56:28

Also here.
Need to leave my DP this week too but so far can't find the strength to do it.

dollius Mon 10-Feb-14 07:58:03

Listen up.

You are NOT a shit mum - the fact you have come on here asking for support shows you want to make things better for them.

You cannot do anything amiably with this man, so you should leave while he is gone.

Women's Aid will help you. If you can't tell them, print off this thread and show it to them. It says all they need to know.

If you decide to leave (and I pray you do), do NOT tell him you are going.

Please, love, find the strength from somewhere. You do not have to live like this and nor do your children.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 08:03:01

Doesn't matter about his family they are irrelevant. The only thing of importance is you and your dcs safety. What other people think does not matter.

Gamerchick's comment was not helpful or a reflection on the abuse you are in the middle of. He has got you to this point, deliberately ground you down emotionally and beat you to the point you feel you can't leave. Not really your choice is it to be like this?

You can't parent properly in this scenario. But you'll be the best mum in the world for breaking the cycle and getting them out to experience a normal life.

I don't think there is anything amicable you can do with this man and based on your last horrific line I would pack bags and get out even faster. You must protect you and your dcs from this lunatic. Your lives are at risk.

Can you tell your midwife or gp? There is help and support out there, you don't have to do this on your own.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 08:03:56

Not pregnant now, and for the first time in the relationship I'm serious about not wanting another. I'm on the pill. He wants another one of course....

I'm hoping the dc will be ok. In summer, he threw my ipad against the wall. So I threw his into the garden. He was so mad that he grabbed me round the neck and squeezed tight but the kids were laughing so much at the "ipad in the garden" that they didn't notice. Other than that they dont really see violence.

Preciousbane Mon 10-Feb-14 08:05:53

It is NOT your fault that he has hit you, it never was and never will be.
I know exactly the place in your head your at because I have been there. I stayed with my abuser for seven years, he broke me totally. I grew up in an abusive household so had no idea what normal should have been which sounds exactly like what has happened to you.

Mine wasn't regularly violent, e.g every week, please don't minimise what he does, which your currently doing.

Ring women's aid and get some help.
Two women a week are killed by their partners or ex partners. My ex kicked me in the head once, I minimised it by saying well he wasn't wearing shoes. That is how low I got.

Your dc will grow up thinking this is the norm and they will see something at some point. You don't want to risk them getting in to violent relationships or becoming perpetrators themselves because it seems normal.

Sounds like you need to relocate town completely. You need to get the police involved.

dollius Mon 10-Feb-14 08:06:25

Of course he wants you to have more babies - barefoot and pregnant and you are fully vulnerable and under his control.

This man is a full-scale abuser and as pp said, you will be the best mum in the world for getting away from him.

Like she said, you don't have to do this alone. Talk to your health visitor, or your GP. They will help you.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 08:08:20

God don't tell him you are leaving. Forgot to say that.

Your children have witnessed the destruction of property. Items being chucked around. They also pick up far more than you realise. What you write about this man is frightening. Your children will know abuse is taking place, particularly your eldest.

If you don't stop it they will think this behaviour is normal and either become abusers or live with being abused.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 08:09:19

Your children do see the violence.... and the abuse.

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 08:11:21

I wouldn't risk an amicable split, I think you need some distance first, sort out access etc at a later date when you are safe x

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 08:15:29

Sorry yes meant health visitor not mw. I think they have some sort of code or way you can tactfully alert them to abuse in the home.

Do you mention the abuse in counselling? It is very common by the way to make an abuser out to be an angel to the rest of the world. My family were shocked and furious with me for leaving such a wonderful, balanced and stable man who I had made out to be my saviour over the years. I didn't mention the years of psychological abuse and manipulation. Didn't realise what it was until I read mumsnet.

Don't ever doubt that you are not the victim of a vicious, dangerous man. To live this way isn't normal. He doesn't love you or your children. He is an abuser. This is not how you show love.

Keep posting, keep writing to us, keep staying strong and making a plan to escape. Contact the agencies that can help you. There is another way.

Nojustalurker Mon 10-Feb-14 08:16:48

You need to take on step at a time.

Are you able to ring women's aid now? If not make that today's focus. It one thing you must do today.

Freephone 24 hr National domestic violence helpline
Run in partnershipbetween Women's Aid and Refuge

PHONE: 0808 2000 247

Wherediparkmybroom Mon 10-Feb-14 08:17:37

First things first get up, wash your face and get dressed.
Then get on the phone.
I'm off on the school run but will be back later.

FanFuckingTastic Mon 10-Feb-14 08:22:23

I'm sorry honey, but this really isn't acceptable. You are so entrenched in the behaviour, that you are actually excusing it, but it isn't okay. He has just made it seem that way. It's been easier because you were used to it from your mum, and he has taken advantage of that. A person who loves you and cares for you would never, ever do this.

I would try to put together the important stuff, financial paperwork, passports, money etc. and contact Women's Aid. You need to get out of this abusive relationship, for both you and your children's welfare. Ask yourself if it was happening to your DC, would you be okay? I would imagine not, and it's the same for you. You are worth so much more than being treated this way.

Women's Aid can do so much to help, they do courses to help you recognize and understand domestic abuse and abusers, and to help with your self esteem and confidence.

I say this as someone who is in the process herself, going to a refuge, doing the courses and left the bastard. So much now I look back and see that he was doing awful things to me, but I'd been slowly brought down to a place where I thought I deserved it. I didn't and I left.

I hope you keep yourself safe and have a really good think about why you are in this relationship.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 10:07:42

I'm back.

I've phoned tax credits, the estate agents, shelter and the council. Fingers crossed, but so far so good. Tax credits would go up if he went, council would pay the rent, estate agents said I could stay here alone. They did say that we'll have to sign for this, so those posters saying do this behind his back etc - I just can't. Plus, I want to stay sweet with him so I've got some chance of getting maintenance for our DC.

Only person I haven't spoken to is him. Before he left he didn't kiss me/say love you as usual, but instead just said "see you in Friday". I think this was meant to be some kind of threat, as in "I will be walking back in to my nice house a d family on Friday so don't think otherwise".

But you know what? After he came home from his night out, I took the kids out, came back and be was in bed. He didn't get out of bed until they were asleep. He knew he wasn't going to see them for a week. It broke my heart that he'd rather stay in bed all day than have some precious time with them.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 10:10:06

So many typos sad

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 10-Feb-14 10:13:16

"I want to stay sweet with him so I've got some chance of getting maintenance for our DC. "

Keeping him sweet has achieved nothing so far and you'll find that courts or the CSA will get maintenance out of him without any sweetness being applied whatsoever.

I'm glad you're taking steps to get out but I would urge you to keep yourself safe and to call Womens Aid for advice. A violent man (even if it's only occasionally) is a very dangerous thing when challenged.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 10:20:09

You're right. I'd rather not go to the csa... I did with my first child (different father) and while I can't slate the csa, my ex partner was brilliant at avoiding them. It took a long time to get money from him...

Though reading what I've just written, would a decent man cause hassle, or would he set up some kind of maintenance payment for his children?

I do plan on ringing womens aid once the DC are out of ear shot. Thank you.

You say a violent man is dangerous when challenged, but this is what I think. DP is generally a very laid back person. Doesn't let things bother him. Obviously he'd be pissed off if I told him to leave but I can imagine him being all "whatever, see ya later" which I'm terrified of. I'd actually prefer he put up a fight. I know that sounds bad.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 10:21:02

Well done you for making those calls. Knowing what you are entitled to is the first step in taking back control.

My dear, I don't want to lessen any of the hard work you have done today as it is a fantastic forward leap, but you are in total denial about how dangerous he is. I suspect because of the abuse you suffered as a child you are numb to the abuse you are now experiencing as an adult.

You need to phone Women's Aid and the Police to make him stay away. Or you need to run very far. Do you honestly believe a man who has threatened to murder you, thrown you across the room at great risk to you and his unborn child, strangled you in full view of where DCs could see, ignores his own children and made threats on a regular basis is going to meekly leave out the front door just because you tell him it is over?

I am sorry this is coming across as a lecture as you have made so much progress today. I am just so shock by what I have read and just concerned that you are minimising to the degree that you and possibly DCs will get seriously hurt.

You will find another house - it's just 4 walls. You will find another life. A better one than you have right now, infinitely better, safe and free of violence. You are moving in the right direction.

CSA will sort out maintenance whether he wants to pay it or not so that is not a reason to stay sweet with him.

You will never be able to have a normal conversation with this man.

And do not worry about typos. Please typo away. But stay with us.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 10:23:55

Please don't be terrified of 'whatever see later' responses.
Just get your ass out of this awful environment. Protect your children from seeing/ feeling anymore of this.
Get some help for yourself.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 10:27:00

Sorry X posted, very pleased you are going to call Women's Aid. Please don't hide any of this from them, you could just read what you've posted today.

My DH is laid back. He would rather cut off his own arm than lay a finger on me or threaten me in any way.

Laid back men as you think your partner is, in no way shape of form behave the way he does. He is NOT laid back. He has worked on you to get you to the state you are in now where you think it's normal to do what he does.

Decent men arrange payment and upkeep for their children. I am sure if your partner has no scruples about throwing you round the house he is not going to hand over money for the upkeep of dcs. Do you have full access to your money or does he control it in some way?

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 10:28:52

And scoop is so right, don't worry about the see you later responses. Let us hope that is what happens and he leaves without a backward glance.

You deserve so much better than this poor excuse for a man.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 10-Feb-14 10:32:24

"would a decent man cause hassle, or would he set up some kind of maintenance payment for his children?"

A decent man wouldn't be a violent bully. You're not with a decent man. He's not only going to cause hassle I think you're seriously underestimating his reaction to finding out he's losing his family.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 10:34:00

Living - ok he didn't say the murder thing in a sinister way. He'd just told me that his friend's girlfriend had cheated, and got pregnant with the other man's baby. I know the people in question so expressed my shock/disgust etc. and he just said really casually "I would actually murder you if you did anything like that, and do the time for it. Seriously." I said to him "if you're trying to scare me into not cheating on you, you don't need to. I'd NEVER do that." And he said "I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just letting you know".

I think he might be a dick about the tenancy though. If he doesn't sign, I won't be classed as a "single parent", will I? Even if he does actually move out (his parents will welcome him with open arms, all of their grown up DC will be back now!). Then I won't get any housing help etc will I?

I want to stay in this house and see how I cope. If I bump into him in the local shop and have a panic attack, I might reconsider. Honestly my anxiety is so bad even NOW if I bump into his brother I'm likely to get all anxious, it's ridiculous. I can't take a child out of school though, it's not fair sad (even though I changed primary schools at 8, and didnt give a crap hmm )

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 10:41:19

love it doesn't matter how he said it. You know that men don't go around saying that to their partners normally don't you? It's a threat that he did not make lightly and then reinforced with the 'I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just letting you know'.

No advice on the tenancy etc and others more experienced will advise. Good luck with the call to WA.

We moved schools several times when I was little as dad worked all over the place. So long as they are in a school somewhere that's the main thing. Young kids are hugely adaptable, far more so than we give them credit for. Better for them to be safe.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 10:45:42

I haven't said anything to him yet btw.

Money wise - I've got my "own money", in the form of tax credits etc. like I said he's not controlling in any way (so I feel a fraud ringing womens aid tbh). Only thing is my tax credits went down when his wages went up, he promised to pay me the difference (I pay all food and some bills, don't just spend it on lunches and coffee of whatever) but he rarely does. This was how the argument started at the weekend. I asked what's going on with money and he got really annoyed and shouted and swore at me and stormed off. That's when I grabbed his back and walked off and he came back after me to push me down, strangle me etc

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 11:07:36

You aren't a fraud. Abuse takes shape in many different forms. You are perfectly entitled to call and discuss your situation, please do.

Does he ever share his own money with you? It does not sound like it? His reaction to a reasonable request from you to discuss finances is beyond ott.

You have done nothing wrong, remember that. thanks

Quitelikely Mon 10-Feb-14 11:07:38

You seem on the floor right now and very, very needy. It's good that you're getting counselling. Im sorry for the childhood you had but I do hope it is your motivation to provide your own children with a stable, loving, safe environment. Sometimes this means putting them before your own needs. This relationship your in will demonstrate to them what relationships and love are about, staying in this will certainly affect their future relationships as yous are setting a benchmark of normality.

You might need some meds to deal with your anxiety if its through the roof at the minute.

This is your life, you are in charge, you aren't happy and you have the power to change your situation until you are satisfied with your lot. All the best.

inthecloud Mon 10-Feb-14 11:09:09

Seriously, you should get out of that relationship as it's not going to get any better. There is absolutely no upside being there, he hits you and and that is just some of it.

For your own sanity, your well being and your children just get rid of him and move on.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 11:27:56

He does, he buys us takeaways and alcohol and will get me little treats like chocolates or flowers or magazines. He's more generous than me with money I think! But I like to save. Now I'm glad I did.

May have to ring the vicar and cancel our wedding sad so embarrassed. Luckily we haven't paid yet.

Rang womens aid smile they remembered me, and were just brilliant. I thought they'd be shocked at my revelation but it's as if they knew.

He text me. I think he might have spoken to his mum. He said " hey, you ok x" and she text 10 mins later basically asking the same thing. I replied to her (not him) and she said she wants to come over tomorrow!! For fucks sake.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 11:30:28

"May have to call the vicar to cancel our wedding"
Seriously hmm

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 11:30:55

Quite likely - I'm very needy. I even get offended if I buy the kids a nice cereal for example and they don't like it. I'm so so needy with him.not sure how to get meds for anxiety?

I was prescribed beta blockers once but if anything they had the opposite effect cos if I forgot to take them then went out I would seriously panic!

I need to tell him what's going on soon. He needs to sign this stuff before I soften.

Quitelikely Mon 10-Feb-14 14:56:55


Maybe your in a permanent state of defence because you see everything as an attack. This is a learned way of being when we feel that we are just not good enough. This might have developed as a consequence of your childhood.

I think it's a good thing you're talking on here but I'm not sure if you truly want to leave this person. You say you need him so much. Are you addicted to unhappiness? Maybe you don't know any different.

You can easily ring your gp and explain your suffering anxiety, say your previous meds didn't work and ask for something else. There's no need to be suffering like you are. You can get meds until your counselling helps you sort out your anxiety. Kids know anxiety. They pick up most things. How you deal with your problems sets a benchmark to them as well. Don't shy away from making yourself happy. Just take little baby steps if need be. One thing at a time. There doesn't have to be no rush, like doing it all in a oner.

Take your time do it right.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 15:18:29


You're probably right. If anyone is nice to me I immediately wonder what their ulterior motive is.

I'm gutted right now. I text him and told him what's happening. He's clearly upset but he's been so nice and understanding and has agreed to everything, I feel absolutely shit. Having to restrain myself from saying I've made a mistake.

Logg1e Mon 10-Feb-14 16:18:41

The only mistake would be spending another minute with this cowardly, pathetic bully.

Well done calling WA, etc. that took guts.
Please don't be fooled by the reasonableness, that's what they do, the nice/nasty cycle of abuse.
You really need to get out before he comes back as now he knows you are leaving you are in extreme danger.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 16:40:51

Have you phoned the Vicar?

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 18:39:52

Hey everyone,

Seriously, it's like the front he's put on for 4 years has gone. He's never really shown emotion but he keeps telling me how gutted he is. Though at the same time he's agreed to sign the papers, see the kids, pay maintenance, pay some benefit arrears (his fault but if I started claiming housing benefit they'd be taken off me). It's crazy seeing this side of him. He said he'll always be there for me and the kids.

I feel awful. And because I'm the one ending it, I bet I'll be the one on my own and miserable a year from now and he'll be happy with someone new. That part is killing me.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 19:09:41

Not phoned the vicar, why?

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 19:25:00

You made reference down thread to cancelling your wedding?
Unless I've read it wrong
Has been known grin

SecretSix Mon 10-Feb-14 19:31:06

You have done the right thing, you can't go on living with someone like that, I am horrified at what he's done to you. It is NOT ok ever for him to hurt you.

If he's being nice it's to get you back on side, it will not last.

Phoning the vicar to cancel the wedding means you mean it. You cannot marry this man.

dollius Mon 10-Feb-14 19:45:40

LoveYouThree you have been really brave and you should be proud of yourself putting your children first like this.

But - please, please, please leave before he returns. He may escalate now and be keeping you sweet until he can get back. I don't want to scare you, but I will sleep a lot better tonight if you can just leave straightaway.

Can WA help with a refuge place at all?

Can you say what part of the country you are in?

Twinklestein Mon 10-Feb-14 19:58:35

OP have you got your details logged with the local police dv unit? Please give them a call on the non emergency number and tell them you're in the process of leaving a violent man who has threatened to kill you in the past.

I find his current reasonableness alarming tbh, and I'm concerned for your physical safety.

Twinklestein Mon 10-Feb-14 20:06:59

If a man threatens to kill you and explains that he's not trying to scare you but 'just letting you know.' Please believe him.

If he would kill you for cheating, what would he do to you for leaving?

IHateWinter Mon 10-Feb-14 20:14:03

Please Please leave this man. Think about what your children are learning. Don't fool yourself that they are not aware of how volatile your relationship is. You've already said that you transfer your stress and frustration onto them by shouting at them.

To continue in this relationship is to subject your children to emotional abuse. Children should never be exposed to physical, or emotional violence and abuse. Seeing it. Hearing it. Being the targets of it.

You may try to protect them but it will not be enough to prevent them suffering damage in one form or another. Ring womens aid. For them.

NearTheWindmill Mon 10-Feb-14 20:23:55

Why don't you tell the vicar what this man does when you cancel the wedding. You might be pleasantly surprised at the love and support extended to you.

I can't really advise you but I am sorry you are in this place and I am sure that you don't deserve to be; nobody deserves to live with violence. Please leave him and let yourself heal.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 20:29:14

Thank you everyone, I didn't expect people to be so caring. I honestly think he's being nice because he's realised he's lost us. And he feels bad. I'm not scared of him. I'm scared of the upcoming weekend though, its going to be fucking hard. I need to ring the estate agents tomorrow so they can prep the paperwork, but there's no going back once I do that... I don't want to mess them around. Dreading it.

Logg1e Mon 10-Feb-14 20:41:47

I honestly think he's being nice because he's realised he's lost us. And he feels bad

If you're right, then it won't be a pretence. He'll remain nice. If it's a ruse he'll have a different mood soon.

Loveyouthree Mon 10-Feb-14 20:57:54

Yeh you're right Logg1e. He won't be able to keep this up if it's fake.

Still trying to convince myself of all the positives of not being with him. E.g. I can take the kids on fun days out without waiting for him to get out of bed, or being miserable about going. He said he'll take the kids on Sunday so will need to keep busy then or I'm at risk of crying all day!

NearTheWindmill Mon 10-Feb-14 21:16:05

I've just noticed that your opening post says it all. You said your children are 5, 2 and 1. Your n/name is loveyouthree. Think about it OP and think also that those children love you to the extent they probably worship the ground you walk on. You are a lovely mummy; don't let them have a git of a daddy in their lives - you can rework history so they don't have to go through what you did as a child.


DeriArms Mon 10-Feb-14 21:17:05

OP, please, please approach Women's Aid when you can and ask about a course called the Freedom Programme. Also when you have the opportunity google the 'duluth wheel of power and control' and see if you can recognise any of the behaviours you have described in it. I am a children's social worker and your description of what you and your children are going through on a regular basis absolutely horrifies me. You have described criminal acts (rape, criminal damage to property, physical assault, threats to kill) and emotional abuse. This is not normal, it is not acceptable and it is not right, and you and your children deserve better. You MUST protect them from this and you should be proud of yourself for having got to the stage where you have come on here to seek advice and support. Mumsnet is an excellent place to come to and the other ladies (and gentlemen) who post regularly will be able to share their wisdom with you. I hope you see this through and break the cycle. Thinking of you.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 04:27:39

Womens aid are coming round on Thursday.

Pissed off cos the neighbours car woke me up at 3am and as everything is worse at night I'm now tossing and turning and starting to regret ending things. I don't want to ring the estate agents, I just want DP to beg me not to. This could be the shock that changes his behaviour... Although I have told him before I've had enough and I'm thinking of going, he's changed for the better but then goes back to how he is.

He's my best friend... When times are good they're incredible. Everything I'm self conscious about, he embraces eg stretchmarks... No man will want me after this! (Disclaimer: I am not interested in having a new relationship for a very long time). He's so popular round here and he's good looking too... Just keep imagining him fucking someone else and it's enough for me to want to stay with him.

Fuck fuck fuck

dollius Tue 11-Feb-14 05:32:33

Darling, I really hope you are right, but in 99% of these cases, the nice behaviour is just a ruse to get you back in line. Please at least be prepared for this possibility and ask WA about a refuge place.

I am no expert, but much of what you say - being more upset about him "rejecting" you than the fact he hits and rapes you - sounds like some sort of Stockholm syndrome, where you have become completely emotionally dependent on your abuser.

Please listen to the pp who is a children's social worker because she has seen this before. Arrange to go on the Freedom Programme - ask the WA person about this. It may help to open your eyes a bit more.

In the meantime, keep posting here. We are here to listen and hold your hand through this. You do not have to do this alone.

Logg1e Tue 11-Feb-14 07:09:27

You must protect your children and yourself from this man otherwise you're giving your children messages about it being ok to live with a violent man and a rapist. If you stay with him there's a good chance this man will murder or maim you, and then where would your children be?

You say you love your children, but you must also show it.

captainmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 08:10:50

Oh OP - your Best Friend? He beats you, threatens you, rapes you and you think he is your 'best friend?' The girl on the checkout at tescos is a better friend to you! The postman! The neighbour with the noisy car! At least they don't hit you, or traumatise your dc, or make you feel that you don't deserve better.

You say he'd not controlling (oh, he IS controlling! You just can't see it - like you can't see the abuse) but I'd be willing to bet he is waiting till he comes back, to start on you. Not wanting to scare you, but you need to get out. Listen to WA; they are the experts in this.

And I wouldn't let him take the dc on Sunday. NO WAY! They are at least as much at risk as you, at the moment. Keep them close, keep them safe.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 08:38:16

Stockholm! I never thought of that. I honestly don't see it as "rape" though because even though I say no no no, we'd never have sex if he didn't carry on. I have no libido anymore. I'm only 24 for gods sake!

He's really not the abusive type. He's relaxed, he buys me treats, he isn't manipulative or anything like that. I think he gets violent sometimes because I am brilliant with words, and could win any argument that way. He isn't, so resorts to using his hands.

If anything Im abusive! I can be needy; a control freak.

I know that making up with him will be an instant gratification but long term I'll be here again in a few months. I can't not let him take the DC, he is actually bothered about them.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 11-Feb-14 09:00:32

"He's really not the abusive type."

Abusive men never are. By which I mean, there's no 'type'. They don't have helpful tattoos or t-shirts saying 'I'm a dangerous bastard' or we'd avoid them like the plague. They walk around looking just like everyone else ... they are just like everyone else. They simply hate women, want to control and bully women, and it's their problem until becomes your problem

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 09:17:51

Thanks cogito, he has actually said he hates women :s but I took it as a joke, he's shagged enough of them.

He's completely changed tactics today. Yesterday he didn't even try to hide how upset he was. Today, he's just text me some cool, calm and blunt messages of only a few words.

Its shit how blase he's being. He even said thank you when I said I'd let him know when I've phoned the estate agents sad But I suppose if he begged me I'd end up giving in. So maybe its for the best

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 11-Feb-14 09:25:43

You have to try to detach. He's going to run through the full gamut of emotional crap and people like your STBX are incredibly persistent. They hate you but your 'their property' so they will pull every low trick in the book to keep you under control. They know how close you are to giving in. Don't give him the satisfaction, yes?

So I recommend you try to take a mental step back and look at the various things he does as if he was a vaguely interesting animal behind a sheet of glass and you were a behavioural zoologist. What's it doing today? Cool blunt messages, upset, threatening suicide, declaring undying love, swinging from a tyre... ? Don't try to understand it and don't respond or engage, just observe and record.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 09:40:24

I need to be able to do that. I will find it hard though. Surely he knows that ringing the estate agents is it?? Doesn't he want to stop me?


Don't know how I'm going to do this. I'm just sat in a car garage while my car is being fixed and imagining if his work van pulled in. I feel sick, hot, my heart is racing. How the hell can I go through life like this?

Quitelikely Tue 11-Feb-14 09:50:40

You need to go to the gp and get help for you mental health problems. Trust me your life does not have to be like this. Tablets can help.

He is the centre of your world and that's a very sad fact.

You can't change him! He might have sex with another woman but if you don't do anything about it nothing will ever ever change, well except you will probably get lower and lower............

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 09:56:42

You spoke before of you being 'terrified' of his potential 'yeah ok whatever' attitude to leaving and'd rather he 'put up a fight'

I questioned your up and coming wedding plans because I couldn't quite believe you were planning to Marry this person.

Are you getting help and counselling? its worrying reading your other post about self harming because he went out the night of the row.

Stop hoping he puts up a fight....

You and your dc cannot live like this

Good luck with WA it's good to arm yourself with as much info as possible.

kentishgirl Tue 11-Feb-14 10:00:39

Jesus. On another thread some people are saying my OH is abusive because he turns into a boring twat when he's drunk. I disagree with them, although I can see some of their points. I'm sure they think I'm just being blind there.

But this is a world apart. There really is NO doubt whatsoever in any right mind about this.

Can you not hear how messed up it is to say that someone who beats and rapes you is not abusive? You need help - fast. Glad you have Women's Aid coming round. Please be honest with them and listen to them.

You said up-post that some of the posters here are confident and brave and you wish you could be like that...

Some of us will have been exactly where you are now - and what happened was that we took a big, deep breath and took our first step away, and then another one and another - until we were walking away...

Walking away gets easier the more you do it, and later on you'll look back and be so glad that you did - you'll look at your kids and be happy that you did it for them and for yourself and see how much better your life is.

Then you'll see where that bravery and confidence comes from - its inside you.

FanFuckingTastic Tue 11-Feb-14 10:10:32

I'm reading your posts and crying, because he is not what he is pretending to be. If he was a nice guy, he wouldn't hit and hurt you. My ex was very nice for a while, when he thought he might still be able to control me and get me to go back. Then when he realized it wasn't going to happen, he became very threatening, until I was concerned for my life. He made my life a misery with harassment and the final threat came about two weeks ago, that is when I contacted the police and Women's Aid, and got the support I needed to get away from him cleanly.

OxfordBags Tue 11-Feb-14 10:10:55

Having sex with someone who says no no no, then continuing anyway is RAPE. It's not sex, it's rape. This is not my opinion, this is LEGAL FACT.

He hates women, he told you so. Having sex with women doesn't mean you can't hate them.

You say he's not abusive. Yet everything you describe is abuse of the highest order. I have been open-mouthed in horror reading how he treats you... And how you tolerate and excuse it. Together, you are teaching your children to be future victims and abusers. One day, your daughters, if you have any, could well be in abusive relationships also, because it will be all they know.

You are clearly deeply troubled, and I bet you had a horrible childhood and felt unloved. You get more upset by him ignoring you than beating and raping you. You think him not caring about your stretchmarks proves he loves you and excuses very serious abuse.

Did you know that violence to a pregnant woman is one of the biggest red flags in abuse? It's one of the number one indicators that a man is capable of killing a woman. It's the lowest of the low.

You think your ultimatum sill change him - sweetheart, he should never have done anyone one of these things to you in the first place. If he wanted to non-abusive, he would be. He chooses to hurt and rape you because he enjoys it. The abuse, the rape, the ignoring, the hating women - all these are the real him. He's only nice when it suits him.

Ask yourself if you would EVER treat someone who you love the way he treats you. No, you wouldn't. Then ask yourself why it's okay for hom to be like that to you. And why you are sacrificing your children to your need to be wanted.

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 10:23:10

Have I missed something where is Op's reference to rape?

"Forced sex" in OP and 0838 post

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 10:36:24

Thanks what

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 11-Feb-14 10:36:48

"Doesn't he want to stop me?"

Why would he stop you when in the past you've stopped yourself? That's the arrogance of the abusive man. They believe you can't live without them, they exploit your insecruity and they push the boundaries a little bit more each time with worse and worse behaviour, seeing just how crappily they can treat you and you'll still take it.

BUT... and this is why safety has to be top priority.... an aggressive man backed into a corner will try to stop you. Physically. And that's when it gets dangerous.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 10:55:32

I'm a bit too scared to go onto tablets in case I can't come off. Would like to be able to though. I know I need help.

He is the centre of my world, maybe I didn't realise it so much. I absolutely desperately love him. In fact, I think ive always put him on a huge pedestal because he "took on" me and my son. He wasn't fazed by it. Then he actually stood by my when I got pregnant with our first baby. I fully expected him to leave, like my son's father had.

I am going to counselling. I haven't told her he's violent though or the kids might get taken away. I've just told her how bad I am, so in her eyes I am the crazy, controlling, insecure one, and he is the patient, loving one.

Kentish - I haven't read your thread, but I do know in mumsnet that some posters are quick to cry "abuser". I'm worried that's happening here. Honestly, he isn't that bad.

Yes I had a terrible childhood. Abused, humiliated, unloved, the lot. Now I just can't cope with bring ignored, or rejected, or dumped. I really can't. Before I had children my boyfriend of a month finished with me and I took an overdose ffs. I'm sat here trying to he a good mum, I'm changing nappies and we're going to bake something later... But all I can think about is him. Keep checking my phone.

Fanfuckingtastic - I really hope you're ok. I'm in awe that you've got to the other side of this.

It took me months to pluck up the courage to break up with my last abusive partner. And now I'm so glad I did. Can't believe I even wasted a year with him. He's got a new partner and a baby and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. So surely I can do this again?? I just don't think I can sad

Yesterday I rang the estate agents as soon as they opened, today I keep putting it off. Can't do this.

Sorry this is long.

OP if your grown-up dd came to you and said "My husband punches me, strangles me and forces me to have sex when I say no," what would you say to her?

Perhaps read your posts again OP. He isn't that bad...

You aren't lucky that he stayed with you when you were pregnant, that's what any partner should be doing, that's why its a partnership, a joint responsibility. But what is wrong is that he treats you so appallingly and you think you deserve it and somehow imagine that he's demonstrating his love for you.

He doesn't deserve to have you or your DC in his life.

You need to see through his abusive, controlling behaviour and realise that he's taking you lower and lower and your DC are seeing this and will think its normal for a relationship to be like this.

I think your counselling sessions will be a lot more productive if you are honest about his behaviour, then you'll be able to discuss how to manage your responses.

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 11:47:35

Your counselling will become somewhat counter productive unless you tell the truth.

Does he see that you have severely scratched the top of your own arms because he ignored you on a night out and you couldn't contact him.

Sad reality is that your children will grow up thinking this is normal life.

No one is going to take your children from you. Get some Counselling....tell the truth....don't bob along from one abuser to the next.

Twinklestein Tue 11-Feb-14 11:51:16

It's not love OP, it's what's called 'trauma bonds' - a deep bond that can develop between an abuse victim and their abuser.

Abuse victims often develop a strong sense of attachment and loyalty to, and dependence on, their abuser - despite the fact that this bond is deeply damaging to the victim.

Growing up in an abusive home not only normalises abuse, but also gives later abusive situations more holding power.

Another poster perceptively pointed out that your name is 'Loveyouthree' tells your story: you love your three children. As for your partner, you're addicted to him, he is your heroin, but I don't think you like or respect him. Look at what happened with your previous partner - it took 'months' to gather the courage to leave, and once you had you didn't even care about him any more. You can do it again.
You're a lot tougher than you think: you've taken punches, strangulation, rape - and you've coped.

You're aware that if anyone gets wind of his abuse you could lose your children and there's a reason for that: it is a recognised fact that children who grow up in situations of domestic abuse are deeply damaged by it, even when the abuse is not aimed directly at them.

At this point it's a straight choice between your husband and your children. You will not be able to hide the level of abuse in this relationship indefinitely. If you feel like you don't have the strength to get out for your own sake, do it for them. You will get all the help you need to leave and rebuild your life from WA, GP & SS if you reach out and ask for it.

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 11:55:27

Op You said in a previous post you have 'woman's aid coming around on Thursday'? Are they visiting you at your home?

Small steps OP...

1. Ring the estate agents
2. Ring the vicar

Then pat yourself on the back.. you're getting there thanks

captainmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 14:06:08

he isn't that bad... sad

What would you think of as 'bad?' Itemise it for me. What is 'abuse' to you?

You were obviously abused terribly as a child - and now crave attention; any attention, even if it is violence, putting you down, sex against your will. This is not normal behaviour, but it is to you. And your dc will grow up thinking it's normal too. SS will not take children away from a mother who is trying to keep them safe;- but they might well do if they consider that you are complicit in the abuse, IE if you don't take steps to remove them from the (risk of) abuse (yes, even abuse of you, not even directed at them) Read Twinklestein's post above, again.

Please get out. Get the courage and support you need from SS, WA etc. but get out. Save yourself and your dc from this monster.

FanFuckingTastic Tue 11-Feb-14 15:46:03

Sweetheart. I was abused at home when I was a child, my father was violent and an alcoholic. I've realised that I am repeating behaviour learned when I get into relationships. That's why I don't see how bad the abuse is, because that's all I knew as a child.

Rape is rape if you don't want to and they still do it. Violence is not excusable. He doesn't love you, he controls you. I know you think you love him, but look at it closely for a minute. His behaviour around you is unacceptable, rape and violence both are - just think, if a stranger did this to you, it would be a police matter - and it is the same thing, not made acceptable by your love. Neither of you can change your behaviour while you are together, so being apart is the only chance you have to make it stop.

Your children are growing up in a household just like you did. They might be young, but I can assure you that I knew about my mum and dad aged four. My mum told me when I was older about my dad raping her. I can't stand him, this knowledge burns me inside with hatred and makes me feel terrible. I am angry with my mum for sharing this knowledge, furious with my father for doing it. It affected me at school, made me misbehave and not focus. In my teenage years my behaviour became terrible, I didn't respect my body and allowed men to do things to me that were awful, indeed I was raped a couple of times, though at the time I didn't know it. I acted out against both my parents, when my mum had cancer I ran away from home. It's taken me years to come to terms with things, I am still affected at thirty one, both emotionally and because I allowed myself to be a victim in my relationships, not one but four over the years.

I know how hard it is. It's terrifying. You think no love is better than abusive "love". Rape is better than not being desired. Shouting and emotional abuse is better than silence. But it isn't. It slowly breaks you down until you become a shadow of your real self. Life seems meaningless, suicide becomes a constant companion in your thoughts.

Yet there is a world outside of that, there really is. There is freedom if you can take it. It's not easy, it's really really hard. You might be scared, terrified even to start with. Things seem alien and new. You feel alone, but you aren't. There are other survivors out there who can help you to move on. And there is a new life on the other side where you don't accept this behaviour as "love", where you find people who respect you and don't hurt you, where you can do as you please and enjoy your time with your children, without those worries in the back of your head about whether you might trigger his bad moods. Best of all, there is a chance for your children to grow up in a loving environment, which won't harm them as you were. Which won't set them on the same path as you've followed. I know you feel weak, but you are very strong, you've coped with this abuse almost all your life, that makes you strong, and you need to focus that strength on breaking the emotional ties he uses to manipulate you into staying.

Any real man would be horrified to treat you in this way, would leave so as not to harm you further, would respect your need for no contact while you sort out your life. He wouldn't pretend to be nice and try to sweep his behaviour under the carpet, or minimise it, or excuse it.

I know this is tough. You have years of mental conditioning to break through. But look to the future you could have, free of this all. Independent and strong. Happy and confident. It all comes to you with time. I love my life now, I wish I could show you the change in me, I am a new person. I am still in the process and already I am a different woman.

I hope you can see this. I am praying you can see this. It's a possibility for you. You are worth so much more than what you have right now. You might not think you deserve this, but you do. You and your children deserve to be safe and happy. This man will not give you this. He just won't, no matter how good the good times are, the bad times will always come with him. He has shown you his worst face, and that is truly who he is, he pretends to be good to you, but it is a grotesque form of goodness, designed to keep you there so he can continue to abuse you.

Please choose happiness. sad

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 15:58:00

Rita - I actually said this to DP. Of course if anyone hurt my children,never once, I'd be furious... I'd tell her she can do better and needs to leave ASAP. I would help her with everything I could. The difference for me is that my family wouldn't help me. They'd take DP's side!

What todo- you're right; I take completely normal behaviour (eg supporting a pregnant girlfriend) and see it as a massive heroic deed that I barely deserve.

I'm seeing the counsellor on Thursday and really need to tell her the truth. Yes womens aid are coming here. DP is working away.

I've phoned the estate agents

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 16:04:29

Captain mummy - abuse to me is stopping your partner going out or having friends, punching them for the sake of it, humiliating them. Things he just wouldn't do.

Ive told him I've rung estate agents, he said he can't get the image of another man "in his house" out of his head. I know how he feels sad just want to cuddle him fgs. I haven't replied to that message yet.

Fanfuckingtastic - his mum has just got here to see the kids for a bit (she doesn't know yet) but will read and reply to you ASAP.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 16:05:28

Oh and the poster who said he is my heroin - spot on. Said this myself last night.

Well done for phoning - that's good. Do be honest with your counsellor - I'm sure she'll already be expecting at least half of what you have to tell her. You're being very brave and that'll make you feel better and braver still.

If you don't have family on your side, is there anyone else in RL that will support you through this? Of course we are all here to hold your hand too. <hugs>

FanFuckingTastic Tue 11-Feb-14 16:07:44

I am so glad you are taking steps towards freedom. Write stuff down if you can, it helps to be honest with the counsellor. It helps to see it written down, and gives you a prompt to share the facts. And if you simply can't speak about it, you can hand it over to them and let them read it.

You don't need your family, they did nothing to help you when you were a child, this is something you can sort with the support of Women's Aid, counsellors, the police, and I can tell you now that you will get so much support from Mumsnet, they lifted me and carried me when I couldn't. They still keep up with me now I am safe, they give me so much good advice and no judgement at all.

I would also recommend talking to a solicitor. You may be able to get him out of the house and your name solely on the tenancy agreement without his signature, because he is abusive and dangerous. You are in a strong position with the law to get the support you need to do this. The police can escort him away from the property, I reported my situation and they have my home and name, so any trouble and I get an immediate response as I am at risk. You can dictate by law that he can't come near you, it's called a non-molestation order. You don't need to share anything at all with him, he deserves nothing but to be gone from your life.

He has no power except that that you give him, by choosing not to use that power. You can completely shut him out of your life and be happy if you wanted to.

And how about telling him that you aren't intending to have another man in the house for a long time - you'll be happy just being there with your DCs?

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 18:09:58


He's got a viewing for a flat. He said he's viewing it on sat, but could take a week to move in, so where can he stay on sat?

I'm crying, can't touch my tea. So gutted. I don't want this!!! He'll get his own flat and can have parties as much as he wants. Girls, drugs, whatever he wants. I can't cos I'm boring and sensible and have the kids. He'll grow up and meet someone and they'll get the grown up version of him tht I've always wanted.

I can't fucking do this!!

Twinklestein Tue 11-Feb-14 18:37:21

You can do it, you can, you just need the right support around you.

No-one will ever get the 'grown up version' of him because it does not exist. It's a fantasy of yours based on what you know a man should be, but he is not. In reality he will go on to abuse other women as he has you until one of them reports him for rape and physical assault and he ends up in prison.

livingzuid Tue 11-Feb-14 18:38:16

You can do it and it is for the best. You don't need him in your life, he's beyond toxic. You are being very strong and brave.

Let him do all of those things. They are not what you need in a partner or a father to your children. You are a mother to three wonderful children which is far more exciting and interesting then snorting lines of coke or shagging around ever could be.

Let him stay with his family, why does he need to stay there. He's a grown man he can sort himself out.

You need to be honest with your counsellor. Have you looked up the definition of abuse in the dictionary? It is not what you describe it to be. I'm afraid you are a victim of a very cruel man who doesn't understand the concept of love.

On the tablets - I am on medication for life for my bipolar. Life is really much better when you take your medication then when you don't. Speak to your GP.

So sorry you have to go through this but you will come through the other end, and your beautiful DCs will be able to live safety and security and be able to have the proper childhoods they can't currently have.

It will get better.

Logg1e Tue 11-Feb-14 18:47:00

You sometimes describe negative emotions, to do with not wanting him to be with other women or (just now) having parties.

This can't be about controlling him. You have to see letting him go as a process of gaining control over your life, your future and your happiness.

I suspect that he's talking about the flat to get you to back down - all manipulation to get himself back to where he wants to be. Don't be drawn on it - you can definitely get thru' this.

Keep reminding yourself that you and your DCs are worth much more than this. His future relationships will all be about abuse, violence and control. You can do so much better OP. Keep thinking about the happy place where you want to be with your kids without living in fear constantly.

You're talking about him growing up to be the person you've always wanted - he's already grown up - he's a monster and you won't change him, neither will anyone else - he'll keep on being violent and abusive to anyone that'll put up with it. Don't be that person.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 19:36:00

I'm in bed crying, and I'm weakening so much. He's saying all this stuff like

The only thing keeping me sane is knowing you'll always be in my life

I'll always love you

I regret what I've done so much, always the wiser man after it occurs

I wish we were still a family

I'm going to miss you fucking millions

Etc etc

And I'm losing my resolve, and texting him back on an emotional level (before, it was just to sort out all the formalities).

See, I told you all, I'm weak, pathetic and not normal. I've NEVER cried this much about him attacking me. I've never cried at all when he's forced me into sex. Yet this sends me over the edge.

I need to stop texting him like this, he'll sense I'm backing down. How can I stop?

gamerchick Tue 11-Feb-14 19:50:19

take the battery out of your phone.

IAmNotAMindReader Tue 11-Feb-14 19:56:02

Get a new sim card and give that new number to people you need to contact but not him. Place the sim card with the number he has in a drawer now and don't look at it till all of this is over and he has moved out. Sort access to your children via a third party, solicitor etc and have hand overs done in a neutral place and via a third person or a contact centre if he can't behave himself.

You never cried this much because you were numb to it and that's what it was designed to do. The texts are all about how he feels not how you feel. If he loved you at all he would man up and leave you alone completely not make a token effort but then start the pity poor me look I'm being so brave act, it is an act to draw you in then you will be punished physically mentally and sexually for stepping out of line.

Twinklestein Tue 11-Feb-14 19:56:35

You don't cry when you're physically and sexually assaulted because you're numb and you're used to it. Kindness is painful because it's what you long for and never get...

He knows how to press your buttons: all he has to do is be nice, tell you he loves you & he can get you back under control. But he's only doing it so that he can rape and strangle you next time he feels like it. And it will come very soon. 'I'll always love you' but it's a lie: he wouldn't rape you if he loved you. He has no idea what love is.

Stick by your resolve to talk to WA, see a solicitor.

Logg1e Tue 11-Feb-14 19:56:39

I notice a lot about him and not much else about other people. Do you think he's in bed crying sending those? I'd leave the phone in a cold, dark room downstairs.

Make your bedroom cosy and comfortable. Get in to bed and get warm.

RhondaJean Tue 11-Feb-14 19:57:59

Turn the phone off.


Twinklestein Tue 11-Feb-14 19:58:32


FanFuckingTastic Tue 11-Feb-14 19:58:35

It's scary, being alone for the first time with kids. It doesn't mean your life is over. Let him get on with what he wants to do with his life, if that means he isn't ruining yours. He's probably going to end up in prison for violence, he's scary - the things he's done to you are scary! I know you don't see that yet, or feel it really, but if all these people can read your description of him and identify the abuse, you need to start looking at what he does as not okay.

There are websites with advice and descriptions of different kinds of abuse, other women's stories, Women's Aid and your counsellor can help you to identify these behaviours too. When you see it, I hope it gives you the strength to remove him from your life.

I know you don't feel like you have any family support, and with young children that must be daunting, but there are ways of getting support to make life easier. Home Start are a charity that can provide masses of support to mums with children under five. They helped me loads when I was a single mum, with free childcare when I needed a break, someone to visit weekly and give me emotional support, practical support with managing the house and money, and trips in the summer to picnics in the park and theme parks which cost nothing. They invited us every year to a Christmas party, with presents and Santa and entertainers. I can't tell you how much joy they brought to my life, you can refer yourself too.

Also children's centers helped me to get into college, provided counselling, housing support and did trips and activities for the kids too. I made friends there and found their support invaluable too.

Life isn't over when you are single, it's just different. I know you feel scared, but give it a try because I guarantee it'll be better than what you have now. If you have only known one thing all your life, you may feel comforted and familiar with it, and change is hard, but that doesn't mean that it's bad. It would be so very good for you to live without fear, without violence, and without rape. I can't describe the lack of that knot in my stomach, feeling nervous all the time, hating myself... it's gone now. I have room to think about me and what I want.

I'm sorting out my own home, going back to college so I can go to university, spending time with my friends and having a laugh. I sleep when I want, I eat when and what I want, I don't get punished if I screw up because I'm in charge of my life and my mistakes are my own to make, I don't feel lonely even with him in the room with me, I feel independent and in charge, if I want company I can arrange it myself and not worry about the consequences. My life is full of freedom, and soon when I start my counselling, I am going to learn to love myself too, to have more confidence and be more assertive. That's what I want, to value myself, and to be valued, sometime in the future when I feel ready for it.

Logg1e Tue 11-Feb-14 19:59:19

Write on here instead of texting, find a thread about something that interests you.

Twinklestein Tue 11-Feb-14 20:03:58

I don't actually think his texts are about how he feels, I think they are simply a script to get the OP back under control. His feelings as far as they are go are all focused on an obsessive need to control and torture another person. He was reasonable when she asked to split because he knew exactly how to manipulate her into staying. He doesn't think she's going anywhere. He's tried this script before and it's worked.

This is one of the many reasons why it's so much easier to leave abusive men without notice.

FanFuckingTastic Tue 11-Feb-14 20:06:34

Remove the SIM card and get a 99p Tesco one.

Talk to him only when you feel strong enough, if you'd rather not talk to him at all, you can get help to do that - see a solicitor and get them to request contact through them only.

If he continues to harass you with contact, contact the police and get them to ask him to stop contacting you, if he doesn't he will get two warnings and then he will be charged with a harassment order. A solicitor can work with you to do a non-molestation order, which is more all-encompassing than a harassment order.

He is trying to break you down, he knows what buttons to push. He knows you hate to be ignored, he uses it as a punishment. That's why he's "seeing a flat" whilst at the same time bombarding you with carefully written texts to pull on your emotions. He's manipulating you to make you take him back. That's why he has "nowhere to stay on Saturday". Because he thinks you will take him in, and then he has what he wants, he can try to persuade you to keep him there. He'll try being nice, but trust me, he'll get nasty if that doesn't work. And if you take him back, he'll find a way to punish you for asking him to leave in the first place, maybe not straight away so you don't get that connection, but he has hurt you before, do you think he wouldn't do it again?

You aren't weak and pathetic at all OP, you're just at a very vulnerable time in your life and he's taking advantage of that big time.

Stop texting him altogether. Switch off your phone and leave it somewhere else. Find something else to think about, read a magazine, watch TV, just make up your mind not to text him again and stick with it.

Keep posting on here - there will always be someone to talk to.

livingzuid Tue 11-Feb-14 20:17:29

You are not weak. He's doing this on purpose. Words are cheap my dear, it's actions that count. Violence is not ever a sign of love. Rape is not a sign of love. Verbal abuse is not a sign of love. His texts are meaningless.

Post with us instead. Take a nytol and sleep for the night. Do not text, keep your phone off.

Big hugs to you.

captainmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 21:42:42

abuse to me is stopping your partner going out or having friends, punching them for the sake of it, humiliating them. Things he just wouldn't do.
'Doesn't do??? He punches you because he can. Because he wants to. For the sake of it. IT IS NOTHING YOU HAVE DONE, OR NOT DONE! HE PUNCHES YOU BECAUSE HE CAN, and he likes it.
Humiliating them - like throwing an iPad out into the garden? That is humiliating you in front of your children, who were 'laughing' at it! Like pointing out your stretch marks?

Stopping your partner going out - you think this is the worst kind of abuse, don't you, because that's what you did? You tried to stop him going out? The hitting, threats, punching - that's nothing, to stopping him going out? Has he told you that? Has he made you feel that you are the abusive one?

You are hanging on your phone, begging for attention, wanting his 'love' - he is throwing you a few morsels, a few 'i love you's, a crumb of thought - and you are grateful! You are already minimising what he's done, thinking he's about to change; he will not. Why shuold he? He's got you crawling back already! Don't do it - for your dc, if not for you.

OP - do you still think he is not controlling?

Melonbreath Tue 11-Feb-14 22:35:50

If he is in bed crying it should be because he is so ashamed of what a nasty piece of work he is.
He's acted like an utter utter bastard to someone, broken their self confidence to the extent they would rather be beaten and treated like shit than think they can't manage without them.
You need this sorry excuse of a man out of your life as you are worth more than that. And your children deserve more than a punchbag of a mother.
I hope you find happiness.
men like this do not change. They get worse.
He doesn't live you. He thinks he does but he doesn't. He loves using and controlling you and taking his frustrations at his own shortcomings out on you.
that isn't love.
be strong. Be safe. And you are a good person who will get through this and move on and find peace.

Loveyouthree Tue 11-Feb-14 23:36:39

Oh god, I didn't want to come back to all of this. I've just been on the phone to him for two hours and he was really upset... I've never heard him cry before. I've given in and given him another chance... Got such a bad feeling already but I just couldn't do it anymore.

He told me something that he's never told anyone and it's a huge thing, it doesn't excuse his behaviour (which he admitted) but it explains a lot of the moods I think.

I think I would have gone through with this if we didn't have to sort out all the finances and the house and the kids. It's just too much. Sorry.

OxfordBags Tue 11-Feb-14 23:40:02

It's not us you need to say sorry to, it's your CHILDREN, for guarantee they grow up damaged, because you choose your neediness and addiction to his abuse, over getting proper help, leaving your abuser and putting their needs first.

Your daughters will be writing much the same as you have been writing in about 20 years time. Your choice virtually ensures it.

gamerchick Tue 11-Feb-14 23:42:30

well it was pretty obvious what was going to happen.

I really feel sorry for your kids.. you have no idea what the pair of you are doing to them.

You will though in time.

and I really don't give a toss if people don't like that.

Bubblegoose Tue 11-Feb-14 23:44:39

My, he certainly knows how to 'work' you. Talk is cheap, Loveyouthree. And crocodile tears are just another way to control you. You deserve more, your kids certainly do.

gamerchick Tue 11-Feb-14 23:49:35

Just make yourself a promise OP. The next time it goes bad please break it off. You'll know then it it'll never get better.

Good luck.

Only1scoop Tue 11-Feb-14 23:50:47

I guess the wedding is still on then hmm

cakehappy Wed 12-Feb-14 00:30:26

OP, please wake up!!!! You've completely fallen hook line and sinker for the typical abuser script. So sad...I think you would have fought against it harder if you realised how badly the life you are giving your children is going to affect them. You are in total denial when you say they don't see/ witness the abuse. Such a shamesad he is going to hurt you and/or them very badly one day, and I hope then you realise who you are actually living with and leave.

Twinklestein Wed 12-Feb-14 01:19:40

S'ok OP, I guessed that had happened.

It often takes several goes to leave.

As you have 'such a bad feeling about it already' please log your details with your local dv unit, so if you call they will come immediately. I'm sure we all have a bad feeling about it, because we know what you're going back to. He's unlikely not to punish you for trying to leave, and from what you have said here, I do think he may have the capacity to kill you.

Next time: don't tell him about leaving, plan your exit with WA.

Can we help you make an exit plan for when if things go wrong again? When I'm struggling with something the hardest part is knowing what to do next, maybe having as much as possible in a step-by-step guide would help? It can't hurt to know what to do if he lets you and your dc down again.

Logg1e Wed 12-Feb-14 06:31:01

I don't think even you believe this is going to work out. I think that this is a very dangerous period you're entering.
1) Stay in touch with Women's Aid, keep them uodated.
2) Cover your tracks on here. I think he'll be checking up on your phone etc.
3) Make a serious escape plan, emergency bags packed, dv police informed you might need them etc.

livingzuid Wed 12-Feb-14 06:35:15

Op sad oh dear. How convenient for him to have a deep dark secret to excuse his awful, awful behaviour. I have an abusive background and a mental illness and I don't go around beating up my dh. There are NO EXCUSES for what he has done.

he's not back for a few days yet so take it easy. Just revisit this thread and read what people said and it might give you the strength to leave next time. He is almost certainly going to punish you for this so next time don't tell him.

House, finances etc irrelevant . They are petty details distracting you from facing the hard facts. The only priority are your kids and their safety.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 12-Feb-14 06:40:32

I'll just repeat what I wrote earlier

They believe you can't live without them, they exploit your insecurity and they push the boundaries a little bit more each time with worse and worse behaviour, seeing just how crappily they can treat you and you'll still take it.

By taking him back I'm afraid the message he will take is that he hasn't pushed the boundaries far enough. Expect nice treatment for a few days but please be on your guard and keep the police and WA numbers with you. He'll be back to his old tricks very quickly.

captainmummy Wed 12-Feb-14 08:19:22

Well, you were right.sad You took him back - for you. Not for the dc, or because of the house or finances, but because you need his 'love' [bluuergh - it hurts to even write that word in this context - because it is NOT love. It's not even affection. It's not even like.. it's distain, disgust, dislike; - he doesn't even hate you OP, he despises you and all women]

As others have said; he'll punish you at some stage, for daring to control your own life, for daring to try to live away from his control, for daring to think for yourself. you say the punching and violence 'doesnt really hurt' - so maybe he'll start on the kids next? That will be the quickest, best way to hurt you! OP - there are many many women on here who had the kind of childhood you (pl) are giving your children. sad angry Please keep them safe.

There is really no harm in getting the finances, house, kids in order -so that when you leave this monster, you can just GO! You say that is what kept you in this - so do it. Get legal advice. PLEASE go through with seeing the WA on thurs. Please look into moving away. Please GET COUNSELLING! (Don't let him say you don't need all this - at some stage, weeks, months, years down the line, you WILL. He will NOT change)

Next time you come on here, (!) you can just pick up the kids and get far away from this 'man', and into your new, happy, SAFE life. Your kids will thank you. They do know. They do.

So please do all this - and stay on here. I think you will need more support from us - and we can help you open your eyes. No-one will judge you, we know it's hard.

Sadly you're putting your faith in the one person who has caused and will continue to cause you and your children massive physical and emotional damage.

A complete stranger in the street would be more likely to be kind to you than he can be.

Can I suggest you still speak to Women's Aid tomorrow? - offload all these issues onto them and let them talk to you at least, even if you have decided to stay with him. Just talking to someone who understands what you're facing will help you tremendously and it'll make that step easier next time you're facing it.

Only1scoop Wed 12-Feb-14 08:40:47

I've seen you up till quite recently on conception threads TTC....I hope you re think about having another dc hmm

CalorHousewifeoftheYear Wed 12-Feb-14 08:45:39

You are teaching your daughters to be you, and your sons to be him.

This is the reality of growing up in a home like this. I know, because I grew up in a house like this, where the world revolved around my parent's dysfunctional and abusive relationship. You can't really do more damage to children than exposing them to this model of adult behavior over and over again.

Be aware that social care do take a view of parents who cannot put their children's needs ahead of their own needs, and that is very much what you are doing here.

Good luck, and keep the WA number close by.

Loveyouthree Wed 12-Feb-14 13:15:25

I really don't think he has a "script"; he's never really had a relationship before...

All parents argue, and we don't really argue that much!

No I don't want anymore children, don't want to make life harder for myself.

I really don't think he "hates" me hmm he's done some amazing things. He booked us into a luxury hotel once when I was upset about a relative dying. He delivered one of our children. It's hard to just throw history like that away.

Like I said, he isn't paranoid, he isn't jealous, he doesn't dwell on things, he won't "punish" me for this!? If anything I am all of the above.

He has NOT used what's happened to him in the past as an excuse. It has taken him years to tell me. I go to counselling anyway... I think he might need it.

He won't be checking my phone/iPad. I have passwords on both that he doesn't know. He sometimes has passwords on his phone. We do it so the kids can't make calls/download apps or whatever!!

Also I really don't think they were crocodile tears... I've never seen him cry; it's completely embarrassing for him.

At least this way he and the kids (in the future) know that I tried everything I could to keep us together as a family.

What's your line in the sand OP? Will you leave him if he hits you again?

Loveyouthree Wed 12-Feb-14 13:32:43

He's never hit me, though slapped my face. As yes of course I will. I feel a lot better knowing i can rent this place on my own now.

That's good (though slapping IS hitting).

livingzuid Wed 12-Feb-14 13:41:35

OP what you list as amazing things - they are normal things that a partner would do. Nothing amazing about it. It's just he has you thinking they are amazing because when it's crap it's life-threatening. So anything above that seems to be a plus in your eyes. Why wouldn't it when the norm is so awful.

He will punish you. He has in the past and he will do it again. He doesn't understand emotions as a normal person would. You know why? Because normal rational people do not slap others. And as ria says, slapping is hitting.

If he didn't use his previous experiences as an excuse then what was his point in telling you now, when you were ready to kick him out/walk out the door?

I hope you still keep the appointment with WA and open up and be honest with your counsellor about what you are going through. It will be so good for you to have some support in RL.

Your thread and posts make me extremely sad and I really hope you have a resolution to this whole situation and your children remain safe.

HazleNutt Wed 12-Feb-14 13:45:06

Booking you into a nice hotel is not an amazing thing. In most relationships, this would be considered a nice, normal thing to do for your partner. He is so horrible that any normal things he does seem amazing in comparison.

So by your definition, most people are in relationships that are absolutely amazing every day, with no violence, slapping, raping,lying, drugs etc. Why do you think you don't deserve to be in one like that?

OxfordBags Wed 12-Feb-14 14:14:15

He wasn't bothered about keeping you together as a family when he was violent to you when you were pg, was he? Or when he throttled you in front of the kids?

You are only 24, and you have 3 children and are in your second abusive relationship. You should be in long-term, intensive therapy for abuse victims, and possibly getting counselling for your dc too (do not insult anyone by lying to yourself that they are already damaged by growing up with this dynamic between their parents, at least be honest that you are failing them if you won't leave), and swearing off men for a long, long time. It's so vile and unfair that your childhood made you like this, but now you're failing your own kids, and continuing the cycle is wrong.

Only1scoop Wed 12-Feb-14 14:21:05

Agree Oxford


No point carrying on with counselling unless you are telling the truth....the violence....self harm....

Get some help.

Twinklestein Wed 12-Feb-14 14:28:25

He's never hit you?

He's only strangled you, thrown you to the floor while pregnant, tried to pass off a punch as slap, raped you until you bled. That's ok then.

You say he has no 'script' but you've been together a while and he knows what works. He knows how to pull you back when you want to walk. A man who loved you would want to protect you from violence and pain not cause it. He would want you to leave for your own safety and get treatment for himself.

The punishment is the repeated rape, the physical violence. It's never an expression of love only anger, hate and selfishness. He wants to dominate you, to punish you for every piece of pain inside him and inflict pain on you. He couldn't care less about the negative consequences for you and the children. The only thing that matters to him is his feelings, his need to lash out, rape, control, dominate. He has no idea what love is because he can't feel it. Sadly you don't know either due to your abusive childhood, so you can't recognise love when you see it, or in this case, don't see it.

This is not love but destructive codependent addiction: he's addicted to dominating and torturing you, and you are vulnerable and addicted to the highs, lows and dangers of being with him. If you do not get out, this relationship will destroy both of you and potentially your children too.

I will leave you with the words of Tina Nash who may recall had her eyes gouged out by her partner. She warned other victims of da to seek help:

"He said I was a best mate, so I don’t understand why he would hurt someone that he is supposed to care about. I have done so much for him, and this is how he repaid me. I thought I could change and help him. I thought he was getting better and sorting his life out....

"Get out, before it’s too late. It ain’t going to get better, it will get worse."

Only1scoop Wed 12-Feb-14 14:34:16

Hope your daughter aspires for better when she's older.

And doesn't end up with someone like your darling fiancé

But 'he's your world' so that's ok


Only1scoop Wed 12-Feb-14 15:14:26

Should read your 'darling f i a n c e'

The script that's referred to is a recognised pattern of behaviour by an abuser. No matter whether or not he's been in relationships before, his response to you when you consider splitting up is to say anything and everything possible to get you to change your mind, it doesn't matter what he has to say, what matters is that, one way or another, he'll persuade you. Then the words will be forgotten and he can resume normal (for him) behaviour.

Try to look at his actions rather than his words.

Incidentally, not all parents argue. My parents didn't argue (or at least I didn't witness it) in 51 years of marriage. Their marriage was by no means perfect, but for the 19 years I lived at home, I never once heard either of them raise their voice, shout, hit, slap etc. I never argued with my XH either, in 16 years of marriage. Yes, we disagreed, sulked, whatever, but never shouted, hit, slapped etc. That sort of behaviour is not inevitable, by any stretch.

captainmummy Wed 12-Feb-14 15:57:39

your OP - * He has strangled me, thrown me across the room when heavily pregnant, slapped me in the face, grabbed my head and pushed me down, cut the bottom of my ear with my own earring by doing that, I think he punched me once but it was pitch black and he said it was a slap and his hand slipped. Fucking hurt though and I bled. Forced me into sex a lot but I think that's kind of ok because I never want it anymore iyswim?* - so he's never hit you? When we say abuse, we mean strangulation, slaps, punches, pushes and shoves, throwing things, unconsenting sex....

That is abuse. Your OP was more concerned that he had gone out and stayed out all night, without any contact.

You also say 'your mother was a violent bitch' - well, your dcs father is a violent bastard. They will have the same upbringing and childhood as you, if you don't get rid of this monster. You are giving them the same fucked-up ideas of 'love' and relationships as you have.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 12-Feb-14 16:06:13

OP I'm not going to try to browbeat you. It can take several attempts before women in abusive relationships reach the point where they are able to leave. It's miserable being with a violent bully but, when your confidence and self-esteem are shattered, the big wide world seems far scarier than the man subjecting you to ill-treatment. But one day something will happen... and it may be something incredibly trivial.... and you'll feel differently. The world will seem a risk worth taking.

Keep the WA number handy. Keep the police number handy. Stay safe at all costs. When you're ready to leave no-one's going to say 'I told you so'... simply 'good call'.

FanFuckingTastic Wed 12-Feb-14 18:41:52

I'm going to stick around here. Don't disappear. You did so well to stand up to him for this time, I wish you might have been able to go through with it, but I do know how scary it is, and how easy it is to excuse his behaviour, unacceptable as it is.

Can you do me a favour? Not leaving him isn't the best solution, and I admit I am now a bit worried about you. Can you keep yourself safe? Continue your contact with Women's Aid, try to get on the Freedom Program, it's a bit of education that you will benefit from, I promise. Keep going to counselling, and talk to them about this too. Don't sweep it under the carpet because you are back together now, continue to learn about yourself and where your strength to ask him to leave came from. Because I know there is still that niggling little thought inside your head that you might deserve better than this.

If you are going to make it work, you have to be firm about the boundaries he isn't to step over, and follow through with the consequences if he doesn't stick by that, which I think he probably won't. No violence, no sex unless you say yes, no aggressive behaviour towards you, the kids or your possessions, you are in control of your life and can do things like go out or spend money without needing permission. That's not a difficult list to follow, is it? Because you know those sorts of behaviours are wrong? And the consequence should be that you will contact the police for these behaviours sweetie. Domestic violence and abuse isn't okay.

If you've taken him back, don't let it be for the old way to continue. Start a new way where you aren't always at risk, if he can't manage that, then he doesn't want to change and he doesn't love and respect you.

I want you to look at his behaviours and ask yourself each time, is that okay? Would that be okay for my daughter to live with, or for my son to say/do?

And ultimately, I would ask you to just make some preparations. Keep the money aside, keep your important documents safe and hidden away, keep your contact with Women's Aid - they will support you whether you stay or leave, keep talking to us for support, and be vigilant for risk to yourself and your children. I hate to think how angry he might be later on for you doing this. He might use it to make you feel even worse about yourself. Don't tell him about here and Women's Aid, keep your matters like this separate from him, in case you have to flee for safety. I want you to count this as a possibility because I will worry for you otherwise.

All the stuff I said otherwise, about you deserving better and being strong, I stand by that. You are beginning to see it too I hope. Please love yourself more than you do by not accepting abuse honey, I know you want to give him a chance, they make you believe they can change, but if you see that he hasn't changed, remember that we're here to help you and your children get out of that place.

DeriArms Wed 12-Feb-14 21:23:42

I am really sorry to read this, OP. I am sad for you and I am furious for your children, who have no power in this situation. The other contributors have expressed themselves far better than I could but I just want to share with you that I watched an interview with Christopher Hitchens recently on YouTube, he was talking about something else but he said something really important: 'You have to choose your future regrets'. I hope that your future regret is not that you lived a life in fear, anxiety and dread of the 'wind changing' or 'doing the wrong thing' or it being 'a bad day' and that you raised your children in such an environment. Think about why it is you have the issues you have today, and then whether you (a) want the issues to stay as they are and (b) whether you want your kids to be posting similar things on an Internet forum in twenty years' time.
But you have to find your own way to this. Please keep reading and posting and checking in on here. We are bloody frustrated right now but we are not here to judge. As others have said, it can take time and patience to get to grips with all the issues, process things, build strength and determination, and start to plan a life and a future. Keep in touch with Women's Aid, work with your counsellor (but ONLY if you tell the truth to him/her) and don't hesitate to contact the police or seek medical advice if you or your children need it.
Good luck.

captainmummy Thu 13-Feb-14 08:25:06

As FanFuckingTastic said - please see WA today. Please go to counselling. Please get any help you can with this - and dont let him tell you you don't need it. (It's not in his interests to have you strong!)

Please stay on here. tell us what you are doing/feeling. Keep talking.

At the very least, read some of the other 'relationship' threads! You are an intelligent woman, you can empathise, and see what 'normal' should be.

Please make this a new start - one in which you are an equal, and not a doormat/skivvy, so no aggression, no violence, no fear, no sex without consent. HE will not want it this way, so it's up to you to be strong.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 13:38:40

Just have to answer... He would never ever stop me going to counselling etc. he knows I need it for my childhood, for a start.

I had counselling today, and it went well. For the first time ever I didn't sit there boiling hot/blushing all the way through. My confidence has grown already. DP is clearly terrified I'm going to do this again (if there's a next time, I will go through with it). It's nice calling the shots, I always let life happen to me rather than make my own decisions. I feel more relaxed and less of a control freak already. I've made plans with a friend for Saturday night. I never go out with friends cos I prefer staying in with DP normally confused but I WILL be more independent. I've suggested to him that he goes out too (obv not at the same time cos of the kids). I want him to go out. I don't want to try to keep him with me all the time.

I've told him 1. No sex until I want it, whether that's in 6 days or 6 months. If he pressures me that's it. I hate having sex when I can't be bothered! He said sex is the last thing on his mind. 2. That he can have my engagement ring back, we are no longer "engaged". If things get up to a brilliant point again then he's more than welcome to propose again. But we will see.

I feel stronger smile

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 13:41:02

As before someone says it... No, DP does NOT try to keep me home, or stop me seeing friends etc. my own anxiety (that I've always had) stops me, I've always been pretty antisocial, and now with 3 kids I'm knackered. If anything he tries to encourage me to go out - I'm sure he'd love a night just to watch his programmes or even play his Xbox without me yapping his head off all night because I haven't seen anyone all day!

I'm really glad to hear you had your counselling session and that you feel stronger now.

You did really well to assert yourself and put some boundaries in place, as well as calling a halt to the wedding.

Well done OP ((hugs))

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 13:56:59

Thank you.

I KNOW we might not last forever. But anyone on here who has left a partner, abusive or otherwise, knows that it often has to be done in "stages". That certainly applies to me, anyway. Even when I've been in relationships with lovely men. Because I'M so needy. It's the neediness that I'm trying my damn hardest to break now, because then I will make whatever decision I need to.

I agree about the stages - I think the strength and self-confidence you need builds up gradually, one small act makes you feel more able to take on the next one and the next, til you're really feeling better able to manage.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 14:06:15

I hope that's the case for me smile

Only he can change himself, I can't change him. And if he doesn't bother then he can get that flat after all.

Yes, you're moving in the right direction - going out with friends will give you some much-needed space and me-time too.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 14:16:29

The only things I'm worried about are

1. I don't keep this up (the social life)

2. None of my friends are free one weekend.

But, I'll try my best, even if I'm just going window shopping alone for a couple of hours.

Ive also said we should do something with the kids, too (he asked what we were doing at the weekend).

He's always been a bit "meh" about taking the kids out so we will see if he can muster some enthusiasm. I'm planning on taking them to a farm type thing, with a view to maybe buy some chickens in the future smile

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 14:32:37

op - if he puts his hands round your throat again, or rapes you, or anything else will you please call 999. The strangling - that is the worst type of abuse and you tell the police that you will be top priority. Sorry, but women die from what he did to you.

I really hope you do find the strength and confidence to get away from such a dangerous man - you do deserve better. Mumsnet will be here to talk to you when you do want support. Do not ever minimise what he has done - if a stranger in the street came up to one of your children and nearly strangled them would you excuse it do to a bad childhood/tears/excuse that the perpetrator may spout?

I don't think you should let him come home until he can prove he has changed - sadly he won't change, I fear he will get progressively worse. Just because he books you into a fancy hotel or delivers a child that does not give him carte blanche to abuse you.

I have the same thing with the social life.

Try and plan your weekend night out a couple of weeks in advance so you've got something to look forward to, vary it too, cinema/pub/club/shopping trip etc. Build in things with the kids as well (but not instead of your 'me-time').

Look for spa day offers - my friend and I are going in a few weeks for a spa day - there are some good deals around. A day at the beach, picnic somewhere (when the weather's better!). Even just a long walk with a mate to blow the cobwebs away - all these will make you feel more human and capable.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 14:40:55

I know, Lily, I am taking in everything you say.

I wouldn't ring the police because I don't like making a fuss, as it were. That's how he ended up delivering the baby in fact, because while he was saying "I think you should probably ring the midwife now" (planned home birth) I put it off because I didn't want to make a drama out of nothing. It's not easy.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 14:43:12

Thank you, whattodo. I'm hoping to round up all the friends I've neglected and like you suggested will make dates with them in advance!

How did things go when you spoke to Women's Aid? Were they helpful?

Would you feel able to call them if you needed help in an emergency?

sorry OP - x-post

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 14:49:20

I don't know if you have heard of the Freedom Programme - but you can do it via Women's Aid or even online HERE

Making a fuss as you put it may end up saving your life one day. I have to say what you have described is the one of the worst stories I have read on here. Have you seen Woman's Aid today for the appointment? What have they advised.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 15:14:33

I cancelled womens aid sad

I was too scared they'd contact social services or something. But I said I'd ring them if things got bad again, and I will.

Not sure if you've said anything up-thread, but has he considered or have you suggested getting help for his drink/drugs issues?

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 15:31:36

I wouldn't worry about missing a night out with the girls, I'd worry about being raped or assaulted. I don't know how you can leave your children with a rapist and wife beater.

I don't know if Women's Aid would contact SS, but at least someone would be putting their needs first.

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 15:36:43

OP what would you say if your daughter told you her partner raped her, slapped her and put his hands round her throat, would you tell her it was her fault or would you be calling he police? What if your grandchildren were living with an abuser - what would you do?

captainmummy Thu 13-Feb-14 16:42:42

OP - i'm glad you have been stronger today. I'm glad you told him no more forced sex, and that the marriage is off (It is off? Not sure if you have actually cancelled or just waiting to see...)
Is that your line in the sand? If he does kick off, strangles you, rapes you, hits you, will you get back onto WA? It's a shame you cancelled them, I think you'd be enlightened if you talk to them. They will help. You don't need to do it all alone. And they won't take your dc away if you are doing all you can, trying to give them a decent, safe childhood.

Glad you are off out with friends. I really hope he is remorseful, and aware of what he is losing. Unfortuanately i think he doesn't realise, or doesn't care. I really hope for all your sakes that he doesn't try to punish you for this.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 16:44:50

Yeh if it was my children I'd get them out of there.

And all fathers get access to their kids, so they'd always be around him in one way or another.

He hasn't touched drugs for a long time, and he actually rarely goes out now, but yeh he is hopeless when he's had a few drinks.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 16:48:15

Yeh the weddings definitely off, we can't afford it anyway so no point dragging it out. I know how good womens aid are because I've sadly been involved with them before. I know they'll help fantastically if things get unbearable again.

In what way will he punish me?? Genuine question. Like I said he doesn't dwell on things... He's really forgetful as well. It's me that's punishing him if anything!! He doesn't want to have the ring back, or sleep on the sofa, or have no sex for potentially weeks or months until my libido is back. But he has no choice now.

PatriciaHolm Thu 13-Feb-14 16:49:31

"And all fathers get access to their kids"

Actually, no, they don't. If he is a sufficient danger to them, he won't necessarily. He's demonstrated plenty of times that he's capable of extreme violence.

Please please reach out to the support network there is to help you and your children escape, before he does something none of you can come back from.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 16:56:01

Seriously, they do. Even if its supervised or whatever.

A solicitor warned me that it was highly likely my abusive, violent, mentally ill parents would get access to my children at court because they'd seen my son regularly before I tried to cut them out of my life.

So yeh, I have little faith in family law!

captainmummy Thu 13-Feb-14 17:13:57

No. Grandparents have no rights in law to see grandchildren. FACT. Unless they have parental responsibilty, or can prove that they are a beneficial infulence on them - and that has to go to court.
Fathers, if they are violent, may get supervised access, that's all. And even that needs to be court-assessed. Honestly, it all has to be shown to be in the childrens interests, not theirs.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 17:16:09

They have now, they can request it. They are rich and they'd have got it. I had to give in before it got to court. It nearly killed me.

FanFuckingTastic Thu 13-Feb-14 17:24:55

Ah, I am so sad reading some of your posts, please reconsider getting in touch with Women's Aid. Ask them if they can refer you to the Freedom Program, I really think you would benefit from the learning there. Or perhaps ask your counsellor to refer you if having Women's Aid involvement scares you.

I don't think you would suffer any negative effects from having WA support, they are non-judgmental unless your children are at risk. If your children were at risk, then surely you would understand the need for extra involvement, or are you afraid that this would make his abuse more real and less possible to excuse?

If you are truly worried about them involving social services, I want you to look at why? They can only do this if there is threat to the children. If you believe he isn't a threat and you've taken him back into you and your children's life, then surely you don't need to worry? If you are worried about him finding out, ask yourself why you are worried?

Also, please reconsider about contacting the police if he violates you, either violently or sexually. It's a crime, but it will never stop if he never suffers any repercussions. You are thus enabling him to be violent and rape through your fear of contacting the police. Would you perhaps feel better if you had someone else contact them for you should he act like this again? Or are you afraid that by taking that step it will make him mad? Why don't you value your own body enough to allow criminal acts against it? Would you contact the police if he attacked one of the children?

Keep searching inside yourself for answers. Keep believing you are worth more than this. Keep finding out about these sorts of situations and why men do this. It may be that there is trauma in his past, but whilst that explains it, it doesn't excuse it. I know you suffered trauma too, and perhaps you feel like you want to love him because you both suffered similar things, but that still doesn't excuse the behaviour if it continues, and the best way to help him is to make sure he confronts this by leaving and showing him it is not acceptable. Loving him and enabling him only continues to allow him to be damaged and abusive.

I won't give up on you. I know you need to have this support. I hope that you will see eventually how harmful this situation is for you and the kids.

So as it stands, you're waiting for him to come back tomorrow? Is it likely he'll be drinking over the weekend?

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 17:44:35

I know of a man who is barred from contact with his children, and he is less abusive and violent than your partner - if a man is that dangerous and violent he will not see his children.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:24:07

Well it would be my word against his if police are involved, and I feel like it would be adding more stress to my life sad

I'm not worried about him finding out about social services - I told him its a possibility. He was sad obviously and said maybe he should go and look at that flat then with the intention of moving in. But I didn't want to agree to that, not if we're trying to work things out.

I'm only scared of SS being involved after reading all these comments!!

Yes he's due back tomorrow. No idea if he's planning on drinking, why? If he goes out in town or whatever then he will, but I'm not sure what his plans are because I told him I've claimed Saturday night!

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 18:27:36

Reporting his assaulting you is not going to be more stress than living with a man who rapes and assaults you. I'm worried that you're running around him trying to placate and reassure him.

"He's hopeless when he's had a few drinks" - what are the chances he'll kick off when he gets home? Do you feel safe in those circumstances?

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 18:28:27

People are asking about his drinking because drink is related to violence.

captainmummy Thu 13-Feb-14 18:28:35

Your word against his -and whatever bruises, strangulation marks, scratches...
What if he goes out drinking Saturday, regardless of your' claiming'it? This is a dangerous man, even without adding alcohol.
Please stay safe

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 18:29:35

OP would you pack a bag for you and the kids and leave it with a friend? Call it your MN bag, and do it just for us?

We're all concerned for your safety OP and wondering what might trigger him...

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:33:01

Oh god, no. When he's drunk he's so bloody crap, he'll stumble up the stairs, have a wee, get into bed and start snoring!! Then obviously in the morning he's lazy and it annoys me. As I said I hate feeling ignored.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:33:45

I'd pack a bag if I had anywhere to go. No one would take me and the kids.

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:36:18

he isn't going to change though is he - you have given him permission to carry on with his abuse towards you - are you so desperate for love that you will risk your life and the safety of your children for a few crumbs of affection he may show you in the non-abusive times - is that all you think you are worth?

2 of us have mentioned the freedom programme - I gave you a link to it above - have you looked, will you consider doing it? We can all see how you are minimising and trying to rationalise what he does. We are all terrified he is going to hurt or even kill you. Not one person has condoned his behaviour on this thread - all except for you. Why do you think that is?

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:36:23

He doesn't really leave marks on me, honestly I'd have no evidence for the police

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:36:43

Women's Aid will take you and keep you safe btw.

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:37:47

you don't need marks on you - why are you so convinced you need marks - has he told you that lie too??

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:38:54

We have gone months and months with no incident. He's changed loads in the past year.

But no I know I don't think I'm worth much. Looked at the freedom programme, can't believe it's free (ironic) so will definitely do that when I'm not so busy with these three creatures!! Thank you.

I think I'm the only one doing that because I'm the only one who knows him...

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:41:52

months without incident means nothing - please do look at the freedom programme - just take it slowly is my advice. In person is poss better but I found the online one invaluable.

And you are worth way more than you will ever believe - we all think that, I just hope you can recognize it one day too.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 18:42:58

No he's never said anything like that, not that I remember... I have a pretty good memory! He's NOT what you all think. He wants me to build myself up... He hates me having no confidence! This could be a typical conversation:

DP: mmm (seeing me walk in after a shower or whatever)
Me: don't be silly
DP: what? You look amazing.
Me: I would if I had plastic surgery. I need breast augmentation at least sad
DP: your boobs are perfect

Me: counselling went well today
DP: that's good babe
Me: hopefully I'll be sorted soon and feel stronger and be able to do more without getting all anxious!!
DP: I hope you do sweetheart, I'm so glad you went to the doctors

Etc etc

LilyBlossom14 Thu 13-Feb-14 18:48:40

he doesn't say that when he has his hands round your throat though or is raping you - a few nice comments does not excuse what he has done.

OxfordBags Thu 13-Feb-14 18:56:30

It's funny that ZERO books or courses on building self-esteem involve rape, violence when pregnant, being throttled in front of one's children, etc., isn't it? Because nothing makes a woman more confident than those! Still, so long as he finds her tits sexy, all the abuse is just stuff and nonsense.

It's a good job that you keeping your children in a house with a violent abuser isn't going to damage them. Y'know, like being in a home with violent abusive parents didn't damage you at all.

I am being sarcastic because your sense of boundaries, normalcy, decency, and what actually fucking matters, are so skewed that it's breathtaking. If you're so damaged and deluded that you refuse yo break with this monster, then that's sad, but it's your choice, but your Dc don't have a choice about it. Just remember that abuse of a mother automatically abuses her children.

And you are wrong about grandparents' rights and fathers' access. Whoever told you that stuff was lying. You could look it up easily enough online. But I suspect you'd rather make excuses and deny it's true, even though mot people on here know it is, than do anything.

If "he's not what you all think, how come there are scores of people on here begging you to get help because they've read your post, your plea for help and can see see that the fact he's raped, strangled and hit you in the past suggests that he certainly can and is likely to do the same thing again?

We are all able to see that you are desperate for his love, affection and attention, but that for you that means putting up with very real abuse, horrific violence and the distinct possibility that sooner or later your children will become the target.

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 18:56:55

sad OP you have such low expectations. A man who loved you, who wanted you to have confidence would not rape you or throttle you.

What about the conversation when he said "I would actually murder you if you did anything like that, and do the time for it. Seriously."?

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 19:21:12

Bloody hell, I'd want to murder him if he cheated on me!

Yes if you google grandparents rights you will see the steps they can take to get access. No, they're not always granted it but like I said I was warned in this case they would.

I know I have low expectations, it's crap sad but I'm working on it.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 19:27:56

I googled and this came up

??? This is what I have been told too!

OxfordBags Thu 13-Feb-14 19:31:15

I googled Grandparents rights, and the first page at the top states that Grandparents have no right in British law to automatic access to their grandchildren.

I am worried for you that infidelity, wrong though it most certainly is, would be worse than rape, violence when pregnant, or being throttled.

Or worse than what you are choosing to let damaged your children by staying.

I'll keep pointing out that his abuse forces you to collude in hurting them until it makes some impression.

OxfordBags Thu 13-Feb-14 19:32:23

You work on those low expectations by being single, and being truthful in intensive therapy. Nothing else will work, end of story. You are doomed to failure if trying to work on it whilst with an abuser of his severity.

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 19:35:43

I said that - they have to apply for leave first. It's lengthy and it's expensive but my parents are controlling enough and rich enough to do it.

I'd rather be half killed by a partner than cheated on. I couldn't cope with infidelity. I cry at people's threads on here when their husband strays. It's disgusting.

If he doesn't improve I will be single.

Logg1e Thu 13-Feb-14 19:45:07

What do you think about the Freedom Programme that others have linked to? That you can do from the comfort of your own home? With very little effort?

Loveyouthree Thu 13-Feb-14 19:47:28

I think that I will definitely do it... Would love to be more assertive and insightful etc. thank you

OxfordBags Thu 13-Feb-14 21:11:18

My love, read what you've just put - that you would rather be half killedby a partner than cheated on. You surely know that this is simply not a normal way to think. It is incredibly dangerous to have your priorities and self esteem so skewed - and you don't have your life to be ruined or taken away, your children depend on you for everything. To be so consumed with this dangerous, melodramatic bullshit is to utterly fail them,cheat them, ruin their lives in advance. Are you not sick of degrading and debasing yourself in this way?

Are you saying that you read threads on here and think that being cheated on is more disgusting than abuse?! Do you realise how insulting that is? Do you cry when you read about women being raped? Strangled? Having violence levelled against them when they are heavily pregnant? How about crying when you read about women who choose to stay with abusers, thus damaging their children and ruining their lives for them?

I'm so sorry for what happened to you on childhood that made your mindset about love so twisted and dark, but you cannot let yourself be treated this way because you have abandonment issues.

It is SELFISH of you to let your issues and obsessions matter more to you than your children, even though thosethings were caused by the damage done to you as a child, which is tragic. But this is making you a bad mother. Letting your children grow up in that environment is a disgrace.

One of the cruellest things about domestic abuse is that abuse of a mother is automatically abuse of the children, and, by staying, the mother is forced to particpate in damaging her own children.

OxfordBags Thu 13-Feb-14 21:15:18

One last thing: earlier, you said that you cancelled seeing WA because you were scared they would contact SS and you'd have your children taken off you. This means either one of two things:

1) You lied about your reason for cancelling WA, and just used the children factor as an excuse that sounds plausible.


2) You know that what goes on in your relationship is so abusive and damaging to your children that officials would judge it necessary to take your children from you, because you are incapable or unwilling to protect them by leaving him.

Which one is it? Because if it is 2, you need to take a long hard look at yourself. If it is 2, you know that you are sacrificing your children to your own problems and needs. And you are having counselling but not telling the truth. Even with help, you choose to sacrifice them. Did you learn how to do that from your own mother?

Only1scoop Thu 13-Feb-14 21:19:30

What about next time he doesn't keep in touch in a night out. Are you going to self harm again?

What about next time he's lazy....hungover from previous night....ignoring you or your've already admitted you can't be ignored....what if another row errupts and this time he beats you to a pulp?

What if your dc watch and learn and history repeats itself for them?
Could you as a mother really ever forgive yourself?

I don't mean to sound rude, but I believe you have some very dangerous traits within your family environment. Get the help you need and break this cycle....

DeriArms Thu 13-Feb-14 23:50:36

'I'd rather be half killed by a partner than cheated on.'
Jesus Christ.
OP, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am a social worker in children's services, although relatively new to the job. I have a mix of child in need and child protection cases and some (less often) cases that go into proceedings.
I am genuinely upset and frightened for your children, and for you. The situation you describe, notwithstanding the good parts of the relationship that you describe, is worse than many cases I currently work with. I am not trying to scare or intimidate you, but you need to understand the gravity of what is going on and how your responsibilities in this situation are different compared to if you were an adult with no kids making an informed decision to work at a relationship like this. (We would all still be worried and upset for you, by the way).
You mentioned that you don't have much faith in family law, and from your horrible experiences, I can appreciate that. I am glad that you're posting here and that you are sharing these things that you are too scared to tell others (women's aid, police etc) but I beg of you to reconsider and to seek support in real life. If not for you, then for your kids, who you obviously love. LOVING THEM IS NOT ENOUGH if you don't also protect them from harm, and hurt, and trauma, and humiliation, and abuse, and pain. The secrecy that you are cultivating is EXTREMELY dangerous.
I am sorry to be so harsh but reading this thread has really got to me. Keep reading around the subject, keep reading the links other posters are pasting for you, and keep the dialogue going with us. We are wishing you well but we cannot pretend that the choice you are making right now is a good one for your kids.

wasuup3000 Fri 14-Feb-14 00:04:00

At the moment though DeriArms Loveyouthree is making poor judgements and not dealing with the risks, maybe Loveyouthree realises this deep down and this is maybe what is preventing her from getting support. For example if she goes to get help now after all this time maybe she is scared that children's social care will take a dim view and see her as a big risk as she has not protected them on previous occasions by leaving this relationship. I don't know - there is a lot going on. I just hope that he has changed as she wishes for the kids sake because they can't make those choices for themselves.

OxfordBags Fri 14-Feb-14 00:16:49

Wasuup, he will not change. No normal, decent man does ANY of the things this man has done. If he was capable of change, ie, not abusing her, he would never have abused her in the first place. If he wanted to not abuse her, he wouldn't have abused her in the first place. The biggest predictor for future violence in a relationship is past violence.

Social services would take a dim view and see her as a risk, because she is. She is facilitating them being mentally and emotionally abused by placing more importance on her fixation with him, and with not being abandoned, than she. Is her own children. No matter how much she loves them, she is allowing them to be damaged by him, and setting them a terrible example by minimising, denying, the secrecy, by prefering to be half killed than abandoned, and so much more. Together, her and her OH are essentially putting their children through a brainwashing system to ensure they'll end up as future abusers and victims themselves. SS take a dim view of women who won't leave their abusers and keep their children in that environment not just because of how damaging it is for them to witness, but because of all the other, less obvious factors that damage them, such as learning to normalise, and witnessing their mother fixating on a man who hurts her (which is a horrific mindfuck for a child), and so much more.

As sympathetic as I am, she is failing her children very, very badly.

OxfordBags Fri 14-Feb-14 00:21:53

OP, did you know that two of the biggest red flags to official agencies are violence in pregnancy and throttling? They indicate to everyone with knowledge about abuse and violence, etc., that a man capable of those things is the most dangerous type of abuser, and that he is the least likely to ever be able to change.

Just one of those would terrify anyone for your safety, and your OH has done both, as well as much more.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 08:00:06

I don't think the kids are having a horrible, abusive life. I really don't. Even if DP was affecting them, he works away loads. I'm worried about children's services because you just hear horror stories. If they were involved and if they told me he had to leave, he would leave. End of. (Not that they would, they never frigging helped me when my own mum was directly abusing me!).

What about next time he doesn't keep in touch in a night out. Are you going to self harm again? I didn't self harm because he went out. It was because he did something that dragged up the past. He rarely goes out now, and I don't want him to text while he's out, it was just because he walked out the door and didn't any where he was going.

What about next time he's lazy....hungover from previous night....ignoring you or your've already admitted you can't be ignored....what if another row errupts and this time he beats you to a pulp? again, I need to lower my expectations and let him have that time to sleep after a night out rather than moan ad whinge and bitch until he gets out of bed. Everyone needs a night out sometimes. I just have to let him like he would let me. He'd never beat me to a pulp. His own father would kill him probably!

*What if your dc watch and learn and history repeats itself for them?
Could you as a mother really ever forgive yourself?* I wouldn't forgive myself. But at this age they do not understand, all they'd see is daddy has gone.

I had another heart to heart with him last night on the phone. A long time ago We were talking about fantasies etc and I said I loved rape role play. He said that all the times I've said no and tried to push him off etc he didn't know if it was real or if I was going back to this fantasy.

I do get more affected by the affair threads than the violence threads because finding out your husband has cheated is a massive shock. If your partner has been violent then it's not a shock if he does it again, if that makes sense?

Logg1e Fri 14-Feb-14 08:02:39

We can go round and round with you trying to justify your choices. In the meantime there is a risk to you and a risk to your children. You are choosing him and your need for him over the safety of your children.

With respect OP, your perception of abuse is clearly fucked.

"all the times I've said no and tried to push him off etc he didn't know if it was real or if I was going back to this fantasy" - he'd rather get his rocks off than make sure he wasn't raping his wife shock

Logg1e Fri 14-Feb-14 08:17:50

And OP this bit worries me, Not that they would, they never frigging helped me when my own mum was directly abusing me!

Because it suggests that your reason for not letting Social Services protect your children is because they let you down and there was nobody else to protect you. Your children do have somebody who could choose to protect them, if she wasn't putting her own needs first.

fusspot66 Fri 14-Feb-14 08:21:55

loveyouthree please seek help. he has you brainwashed. when i read of a mother strangled, a father in jail & children in care i will never know if is you.

PatriciaHolm Fri 14-Feb-14 08:28:17

Sooner or later, OP, social services will be involved. The children (who see and suffer far more than you think) will say something to a teacher, a guide leader, a classmate. It will be reported, and social services will visit, and see that you insist on staying with a man who is a serious threat to you all. That is what will end up with social services threatening to remove your children from you.

On the other hand, if you go to them, reach out for help, they will help you get this appalling man out of all your lives before he kills one of you. They will see that you are trying to do the best for your children.

Your daughter shouldn't have to grow up to be abused, and your sons to be abusers. But that is what you are risking.

teaandthorazine Fri 14-Feb-14 08:30:36

Jesus. This is probably the most fucked-up thread I've ever read on MN.

Sorry OP, but I think your situation is a newspaper headline waiting to happen. I know it's hard, I know you don't want to believe us, and I know leaving is a process. But please, at least go through with women's aid, if nothing else. You are in serious denial about what could happen to you and your kids and you need help.

I wish you luck.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 08:32:51

But the children are not in danger and I am not in danger if he stops now!!

And he will stop, because I won't grab him first or whatever.

It won't be me in the news, please don't think that sad

You don't make him abusive OP. No amount of moderating your own behaviour will protect your dc.

DeriArms Fri 14-Feb-14 08:40:38

Loveyouthree, you are taking responsibility for his behaviour, which is not sustainable. You can't guarantee that as long as you don't do anything to upset him/wind him up/ cause problems, that he won't react in a way that is harmful/upsetting/inappropriate/abusive. The only thing you can truly take responsibility for, is your own behaviour.
Please, go back to women's aid. I know it must be horrible being hectored on this thread when in your own mind you are trying to keep your family together but PLEASE believe us when we say how and why we are seriously, seriously concerned about the short and long term physical and emotional safety of your children.
Ask them about the freedom programme. It might just save you and your children's lives, or prevent lifetimes of unhappiness. That is what you can do.

HazleNutt Fri 14-Feb-14 08:44:34

You need to lower your expectations?? You are expecting not to be strangled and abused�- on a good day and if you behave well - and see anything remotely normal as amazing. You cannot lower your expectations any further, they have nowhere lower to go.

OP, it is not you who makes him violent. It's him, he chooses to be like that. It is not your fault and you cannot stop and avoid it by behaving better. He will always, always find something you supposedly did to upset and provoke him. If you do nothing at all, that will be wrong too.

Why do you believe so strongly that he's a changed man now and will stop?

captainmummy Fri 14-Feb-14 08:52:23

Bloody hell, I'd want to murder him if he cheated on me! - yes, most of us would want to, but wouldn't. I suggest that you wouldn't [murder him]. I also suggest that actually - he would. He's said so. He'd do the time.

Did you know that strangulation is actually really dangerous <blindly obvious emoticon> because it doesn't actually take very much before the neck snaps? It is a very fragile structure, and it is very, very, very easy to break, or cause damage sufficient to kill outright, or maim permanently (Paralyse). This is why throttling, or attempting to, is viewed very seriously by police, SS, WA etc, because it is v v v hard to 'half-kill' someone when you have hands round their throat - and very easy to KILL.

OP - we are frustrated by your minimising and dependancy on this monster. Oxford is harsh, but is trying to make you see what we do. deri is a professional working in this field, and is trying to make you see.
Think of it as - if you had no arms, how would you stop your child running into the road? By talking, talking, shouting, getting someone else to help; ultimately tho, there is not much you can do if he/she decides to run. That's what it's like for us - we are trying to make you see how damaging your childrens childhood IS, is now! And the only way to help them is to get away from the violence and abuse.
It is NOT horrendous being alone - lots of us (me included) have kids but no partner. Our attention is on them; our attention comes from them. I don't need a man, at all. My life is lovely, quiet, safe, just fantastic! Yours can be too - you can continue with counselling alone, you can continue with your life, alone, you can continue with your hobbies, work, anything you like, alone! Who needs a man???

Only1scoop Fri 14-Feb-14 08:57:32

I actually read your other thread <think you removed it> which you started concurrently with this one. You go into much detail about violently self harming the tops of your arms. Because he has gone out and was ignoring you <which you hate>.

I suppose you will retort that your children would be to young to understand ....if they see you harming or ...the marks you leave.

So wrong

Can't really see how you can lower your expectations to be honest but yes....don't try and get him out of bed after a night of excessive alcohol ....class goodness knows what 'class' drugs you describe. He will never be that 'family man' loving going out with his family ....always be a 'bit meh' about plans with dc as you previous describe. So make sure you lower your standards to the dregs there also.

Oh and believe me....they do know and feel this awful life you are creating for them. Sad thing is it will become normal.

But it doesn't happen very often so that's ok....

You are justifying
everything negative in your life
....'I was abused'
.....'I CAN'T be ignored....
.....'he's not that bad'
....'he's my world'

Shame your children aren't your world.

Frightening.... and ill get flamed for this but I think part of you enjoys a bit of this drama etc because at least you have nobody ignoring you....
Especially him.


Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 09:51:39

I'm not scared of being alone. I miss being alone sometimes (have been a single parent before, did what I wanted when I wanted etc). What I'm scared of is HIM being alone, because then he's free to have a happy life with someone else, or have wild parties, whatever. The kids don't need to see the fall out of that. I'd be crying constantly.

I'll be honest and say I didn't know strangling was that serious. Obviously it can be, but I didn't think it was when he did it. That has worried me now.

OxfordBags Fri 14-Feb-14 10:01:09

OP, if you needed other people to tell you that strangling is dangerous, then you need to beg every agency available for help, ASAP. Only someone with an intensely damaged and dangerous (to themselves) sense of normalcy and boundaries and safety wouldn't know it was dangerous.

And please keep bearing in mind that it's not only dangerous, it's considered to be just about the number one indicator that a man will kill his partner.

That you would rather be abused and let your children grow up in that environment, rather than have him be a free and single man again, is absolutely crazy - and disgusting. That really is shockingly selfish and bad parenting.

You really need a LOT of help.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 10:03:26

Yes I admit I do need help, I've tried to get it for years, I even paid for counselling until my money ran out.

The kids will be fine, he will behave now. And if he doesn't then that's it.

MostlyMama Fri 14-Feb-14 10:12:56

can't believe you've taken him back, you are an idiot.

OxfordBags Fri 14-Feb-14 10:15:27

Counselling won't work if you're lying to them. And you need therapy, bot counselling.

LilyBlossom14 Fri 14-Feb-14 10:19:27

so the only reason you are staying with him is because you don't want him sleeping with someone else and having wild parties? So that is more important than the safety of you and your children. Can you not see how very wrong that is.

I think you need to remake that WA appointment and start being honest with them. If your kids go to school and tell a teacher daddy strangled mummy you can guarantee they will report it to SS.

It sounds to me as if you're missing the single life, wishing you could be free to party and you don't want him to have it if you can't have it. Who cares what he does when he's on his own? He will inevitably find someone else to abuse/bully/smack around when he feels like it - who exactly is that a happy life for anyway?

I know that you were badly abused and neglected as a child, but you really must break that cycle and put your children at the top of your list of priorities.

Right now you could be building a safe, happy home for your children away from his violence.

FanFuckingTastic Fri 14-Feb-14 10:49:49

Sweetie, your children do see it, and it is affecting them. I know you think it doesn't. My dad too spent lots of time away, and that was the happiest parts of our life with our mum, who was a different person when he was gone. But the sinking in the stomach feeling of him coming back again, especially if he had leave which meant even more drinking, that was the worst feeling in the world.

I remember one Christmas we were opening presents, and on the PS1 games they had security tags that were really sticky. I remember him making a comment about how she could use it to close her cunt up because she was a whore. They never knew I heard.

I remember aged four being so upset in school, because I had watched my dad pin my mum up against a wall by her throat. But I was too scared to say anything, so I was stuck with the weight of the world on my shoulders. I remember wanting to run away.

I remember my dad beating the crap out of my brother for being mouthy and knocking food out his hand. My mum jumped in and got thrown off into a wall, I tried to stop it and hit the washing machine. This was after sixteen years of marriage.

In the beginning it was just mum, but it eventually got to the point where it was us too. I remember being chased around the house aged ten by him with the belt for daring to mouth off about something I disagreed with.

When my mum went into hospital for cancer treatment, I ran away from home for fear of being alone with my dad.

He was sexually abusing me too. Nobody knew about that. But he was raping mum, beating her, getting physical with us, so it's not really a big jump to sexually abusing me. All of it started out as just pinning her against the wall in an argument. As we got older, we were targets too. You might think he is lovely, everyone thought my dad was a standup guy. Except us at home, who were all terrified of him.

Jesus Christ Fan - I'm so sorry

If your mum wasn't prepared or able to leave him Fan, I wonder if she'd have acknowledged that you would have been better off being adopted or fostered?

Only1scoop Fri 14-Feb-14 11:07:19

Fan....that made me cry....
And as you say that all began with a 'push against the wall'

fusspot66 Fri 14-Feb-14 11:12:50

BTW it is not about necks snapping that makes choking so dangerous. It is about pressure on the vagal nerve that stops the heart. A method known in martial arts and used by Commandos. Silent and deadly and surprisingly easy.

FanFuckingTastic Fri 14-Feb-14 11:20:29

I'm not writing for sympathy, though I do appreciate people being kind. I am writing to share my experience with LoveYouThree, so that she can see that kids are actually not as unaware as she thinks, and that they can also be at risk.

My dad was a mild mannered man, who just became violent and abusive all of a sudden. You never knew when. More often when he had a drink, but even then it was like waiting on a knife edge for something to happen.

My awareness goes back as far as three or four years old. The impact it has had is immense. I have just left an abusive relationship. Over my life I have been in four. This time I fled in fear of my life. My mum has no idea how much I have been impacted by her staying with my dad. Sometimes I feel like I could hate her, certainly I hate him with all my heart.

My brother is an abuser. He has been in prison for pinning his girlfriend to the wall by her neck after breaking down the door to get in to her house. He was lucky to not be tried for attempted murder by the German police, instead got off with ABH in the army courts.

My sister is the least affected, because she was the youngest when we left. She cannot tolerate arguments or anger, but she is the only one of three siblings living an independent life and undamaged enough to do it without problems.

This is the legacy of living in a DV household.

Only1scoop Fri 14-Feb-14 11:29:49

I know fan I know you aren't at all.

Just brings home to us all.... just how aware children are even in those really young and nurturing years.

I just hope Op prints off this thread and hides it for her future.

She has had some incredible advice on here.

FanFuckingTastic Fri 14-Feb-14 11:39:35

And LoveYouThree, I understand where you are right now. I've been there myself. I don't want to make you feel guilty, I am just trying to show you that how you think is faulty. It's not something you are to blame for, given your life experience, but we are all so concerned about you and the children, we're trying to help.

I think you are brave to keep coming back and talking to us. Keep doing that. I want you to read the thread over and over again. Some parts of it might be painful to read, but consider how many times the same message is being repeated to you.

We don't hate you or want to ruin your life, we want you to be happy and safe. Keep questioning things and learning about abuse. x

DeriArms Fri 14-Feb-14 11:41:46

Brilliant posts and advice from FanFuckingTastic.

captainmummy Fri 14-Feb-14 13:41:00

FanfuckingTastic - what a horrendous childhood. sad It boils my blood when posters say 'he's a great dad' or 'people will never believe me, he's so popular' (and 'good-looking, like that is a good character trait) and 'he's really a good guy'.

OP - he's due back today, yes? He's likely to be drinking or on drugs at some stage in the weekend, so you'd better be careful. Don't say or do anything which might set him off, otherwise it will be all your fault - 'look what you made me do!' Better be on tiptoes, on eggshells, but that's ok; the kids dont realise. Better be on best behaviour (ALL of you!) in case he gives you some 'attention'. Or worse, doesn't.

Personally, I'd really rather he screwed the entire town, took all the drugs he could afford (how does he afford them, BTW?) and had parties from now till april, than came near me or my dc. He is NOT WORTH IT.

captainmummy Fri 14-Feb-14 13:43:56

OP - this tghread was started by someone who has got out of an abusive relationship. It's a heart-warming thread with a BIG message.

Have a read.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 14:38:08

Fanfuckingtastic sad that is horrible. I hope you're ok.

DP will not be on drugs this weekend. He hasn't done that shit for a long time. I don't know if he'll be drinking, but probably not because he'll be back late tonight and is leaving early Monday so won't go out Sunday night. He's a happy/rubbish drunk and it doesn't make him aggressive. I'm not scared of that at all. Hes boring if anything.

He's the one on tiptoes, not me. He's shitting himself that I might still go through with the break up after all. I don't even feel bad for letting him think that. I'm not reassuring him.

Ironically now he has a good wage he doesn't do drugs, rarely goes out. He took drugs a handful of times if that, and we had barely any money to get by (I didn't know he'd spent it on that). Those were very dark times. I was pregnant and felt I had to stay.

Logg1e Fri 14-Feb-14 14:45:22

Have you had a look at the Freedom Programme yet?

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 14:47:26

I looked at the link but didnt have time to register. Half term now aahhhh!

Logg1e Fri 14-Feb-14 14:51:25

When do you intend to have registered by? Is before bedtime reasonable?

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 15:01:25

It should be x

Logg1e Fri 14-Feb-14 15:05:44

I'd love to hear more about it if you can find time. I'm sure it will be of interest to anyone lurking.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 15:11:30

Yes, didn't think of it like that

FanFuckingTastic Fri 14-Feb-14 17:35:57

I'd like to hear your thoughts too. I'm not starting until May, so I'm interested in what you learn.

Why don't we start a rule of not excusing his behaviour? You must feel defensive about things, and want to explain it, but why don't we stop looking at his behaviour and why he does it in your opinion, and look at how you feel about his behaviour.

Loveyouthree Fri 14-Feb-14 19:25:49

Ok, that sounds fair.

I will try to do that, Fan.

captainmummy Sat 15-Feb-14 13:22:39

Hw's it going OP? did you look at the freedom program?

FanFuckingTastic Sat 15-Feb-14 14:44:11

If you have a link LoveYouThree, I'd love to read about it myself.

I hope you are looking forwards to your night out tonight. Be safe and have a great time.

Loveyouthree Sat 15-Feb-14 20:34:57

Hey, not yet, this weekend is gorgeously full!

So far so good - and thanks for checking up on me. He's been all I could ask and more really. Oh and he's sleeping on the sofa.

I went out for tea and I've just got back, it was nice to get out and gossip.

Loveyouthree Sat 15-Feb-14 20:37:52

Fan - a pp put the link on earlier; that's the one I followed x

FanFuckingTastic Sat 15-Feb-14 20:45:38

How far into it are you? I'll catch you up and we can read it together.

Loveyouthree Sat 15-Feb-14 21:02:35

I haven't started it yet. He's going back to London for work on Monday... Technically I could do it that evening. X

Logg1e Sat 15-Feb-14 21:08:23

How long is he away for? Is he drinking tonight? Guessing he won't drink tomorrow..?

Loveyouthree Sat 15-Feb-14 21:13:04

Erm I think only a couple of days. Yeh he bought us some drinks, so we're just chilling at home having them. He won't go out tomorrow night as it's a school night ...

FanFuckingTastic Sat 15-Feb-14 21:14:32

Okay, it's a date. I'll be here on Monday too and we can read together. I'll be travelling to pick up the kids some of the day, but hopefully we can get a little time together.

Loveyouthree Sat 15-Feb-14 21:36:19

Aahhhh, I'm nervous! Hope we can do this x

FanFuckingTastic Sat 15-Feb-14 22:22:36

Course we can. We'll do it one step at a time.

MatildaWhispers Sun 16-Feb-14 01:45:13

Hi OP, I have just read through your thread and I feel so sad for you and hope that you can get out soon.

Whilst it's great that you are going to do the freedom programme online, you might find that if you contacted women's aid again you may be able to speak face to face with someone from a WA branch local to you. You might find it really helpful to see the reactions that someone in rl would have to listening to you explaining how you have been living. It's not quite the same online as in rl - to actually see someone's shocked/concerned reaction might help you to realise how wrong it all is.

You have clearly adapted to thinking that how you are living is relatively 'normal', but it is not. I have been in a similar position to you, and I know how confusing it can be when, for example, forced to have sex one minute and the next they are doing something seemingly nice like making you a cup of tea. I know that leaving is a process, but please do not leave it too long. Some of your posts suggest that you do not think that you have been damaged in any way by what you have been through - i.e. you say that you didn't really see strangulation as dangerous. But the very fact that you have somehow shut down your ability to see how dangerous it is shows how very, deeply affected you have been. You need to get out because the longer you stay in a relationship like this, where you are somehow teaching yourself to absorb all this abuse and trauma and convincing yourself that you are not that affected by it (because, after all, he is not cheating on you is he hmm), the harder it will be for you to heal. Good luck.

Loveyouthree Mon 17-Feb-14 08:25:26

Well, he's gone back to work for a few days (working away) so thought I'd reflect a little on here...

The weekend was fine, I like being busy so had lots planned. He does help in the house anyway but he did more than I'd have asked, he didn't raise his voice/lose his temper or anything, he is really upset by the situation but is at least telling how he feels. It seems my insecurity is transferring onto him which isn't nice but I can't do anything about that.

We did some stuff with the kids, and he took me out for a meal when a family member offered to babysit.

I haven't even kissed him, even though he has wanted to of course. Oh and I told him that the more he used to pester me for sex, the less I wanted it and I saw a lightbulb go off in his head hmm. Hopefully that will change things because he's always trying to "please" me in that department.

So things have been alright. Hopefully it will last...

Logg1e Mon 17-Feb-14 09:08:11

I think it's a good idea that you keep stopping and reflecting as you have just there. It's a shame you have to, but I think it's a good idea.

captainmummy Mon 17-Feb-14 15:03:47

That sounds good, OP. i hope it lasts. Did he drink at all over the weekend?
I hope you can now give the freedom program a go, it's vvery enlightening.

Loveyouthree Mon 17-Feb-14 15:18:39

Thanks captain mummy. Yeh we both had beer (him) and wine (me) when I got back from the meal on Saturday night. Then I did my usual trick of going straight to bed when the wine bottle was finished blush while he stayed on the sofa.

He has seemed upset intermittently. I genuinely thought it was because he was frozen on the sofa each night (no duvet to spare; heating off to save costs etc). But when I asked him this morning (text; he was travelling) he said

"I'm not pissed off about that, I'm only pissed off about my own actions that have led to this... I'm glad it's happened though (not the pain, suffering and violence I have put you through) because its a massive wake up call... It's killing me knowing what a cunt I've been, how lazy I have been and how much more I need to do for the kids rather than just be an angry voice... I will never go back to being that prick... I'm a new person and can't wait to show you and the kids... I never want to lose any of you..."

And thank you, I really hope I can put my mind to it, instead of being so knackered in the evenings!!

LilyBlossom14 Mon 17-Feb-14 16:16:06

Will you still do the Freedom Programme OP?

Loveyouthree Mon 17-Feb-14 18:14:13

Yeh at some point... Is it like counselling?

captainmummy Mon 17-Feb-14 19:11:25

Wow OP - did he really say that? Part of me says 'words are cheap, his actions will tell you the real story' and the other part is quite impressed. IF he really wants to change, good for him. But you really need to be on your guard against any more violence or bullying;- don't allow 6 months of peace to outweigh 1 single second of aggression or violence.

He seems to know he's on a warning - please make it count.

Please continue with the freedom program; it's very valuable and insightful. Please don't get complacent.

Loveyouthree Mon 17-Feb-14 19:31:26

Yea, I was copying his text word for word (well, I missed a few words out cos it was getting a bit long but it was all of the same theme). Oh you're absolutely right - I'm a very cynical person at heart and said to him over the weekend "actions speak louder than words".

IF he really wants to change, good for him. But you really need to be on your guard against any more violence or bullying;- don't allow 6 months of peace to outweigh 1 single second of aggression or violence.

This! I really, really need to live by this.

LilyBlossom14 Mon 17-Feb-14 19:34:57

so please do start the Freedom Programme. It is all very well living in hope he won't behave in that way again, but in my experience you will spend your life either treading on eggshells, or subconsciously testing him to see how far he will go until he snaps. In my experience you will spend all your time living in fear waiting for him to get angry again - and that is no way for you to live at all is it. You shouldn't be grateful for his good behaviour, that should be a given.

Also, can you really forgive, and forget, what happened in the past?

FanFuckingTastic Mon 17-Feb-14 19:35:53

Hello LoveYouThree, I am so sorry I didn't make it on today, I've had no access to internet. Will you like to start tomorrow?

FanFuckingTastic Sun 23-Feb-14 23:31:24

I've not been around, half term coupled with illness. Are you doing okay? Where are things at now? Has everything been okay? Are you able to get alone time on the internet to read this thread and do the Freedom Course? I'm worried about you being so quiet.

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