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DH is such a horrible nasty drunk

(695 Posts)
AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 00:57:50

DH is wonderful when he's sober. And lovely charming and funny before about 10 pints. But he will go out and drink close to 30 pints (genuinely) and he's so awful - really aggressive and nasty.

Last few weeks it's been the same thing, goes out says he will be home by X o clock. That time comes and goes, I hear nothing. 20+ missed calls/texts and he eventually comes home smashed. The next day is always the same- so contrite, promising it won't happen again. It's happened three times now in a month. It's not the drinking I have a problem with as much as the lack of contact. He will literally ignore his phone all night and I worry. He's promised a billion times he'll stay in touch from now on.

I'm 5 months pregnant (DC1) and tonight was my first night out with the girls since I found out. Had a lovely night and left them all at midnight to get a cab home. As soon as the cab drove off, I realised I didn't have my keys. DH had been out since 7, and hadn't text me once (despite the hourly reminders he had set on his phone to make sure he did, after I'd explained how much it bothered me). Got hold of some friends who were with him, and he got a cab home. I was sitting on the doorstep shivering and he didn't even look at me. Just opened the door, turned round and got back in his cab.

Didn't ask if his pregnant wife was ok after half an hour in the freezing cold. Nothing. Looked at me like I was scum and left so he could go back drinking with his mates.

It doesn't bode well for him being a good/caring dad, does it? He really doesn't care about anyone but himself. I'm in absolute pieces.

RhondaJean Sun 09-Feb-14 01:01:25

Oh dear.

Needing texted every hour is a bit much.

But this man is not going to get better only worse. My advice is to get out now.

30 pints btw is 60 units so u hope he's not near a car for two and half days after he stops drinking.

Dirtybadger Sun 09-Feb-14 01:02:39

It does not bode well, no...

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sun 09-Feb-14 01:04:33

So you're married to an alcoholic. Why did you choose to have children with him?

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 01:05:40

The texting/call thing is all a bit much

However, that is awful behavior on his part. How degrading.

Think you need to have a serious chat with him hmm

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:06:27

I don't need texts every hour, I didn't ask for that. I just tried to be reasonable with him in a "look, your behaviour isn't normal, I won't put up with it, if you don't want me to leave, find a solution and fix it" sort of way, and his solution was that he would set reminders on his phone every hour to keep in touch. Fat lot of good it did anyway.

If I could see the future, and knew my life would be like this forever, I'd leave him. But he's so lovely sober and I'm always so sure he will change. I just don't know where to go from here. Nothing I do/say will stop him drinking so much.

redbinneo Sun 09-Feb-14 01:06:32

He's an alcoholic. Get him to admit to it or leave him.
You sound if you tolerate him drinking 10 pints. That level of drinking is not normal and is way above anything most people would consider to be acceptable. How does he hold down a job?

TerribleMother Sun 09-Feb-14 01:06:36

No, he isn't going to change, and he's not going to be a good dad. He doesn't sound like he cares about you at all. I'm sorry you're going through this. Being drunk doesn't change your personality, only brings out the parts that you keep hidden when sober.

Leave him. And I don't say that lightly. Being alone is better than being with someone who treats you like that.

When you say aggressive, has he ever been physical?

And Rhonda is right, he can't drive for at least two days after drinking that amount.

I'm sorry you're so upset. You deserve better.

Custardo Sun 09-Feb-14 01:06:46

you can't reason with a drunk - and trying to do so is futile and creates drama that only ends badly.

not sure why you are phoning and texting him every two minutes - have to be honest, if dh did this to me when i was out with the girls, i wouldn't answer it either, comes across as clingy and naggy.

so how often does he drink and how nasty does he get?

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 01:07:59

Just read the 30 pints the entire weekend or 1 night? shock

Destinysdaughter Sun 09-Feb-14 01:08:26

30 pints is a serious alcohol problem. He needs professional help but unless he admits he has a problem it won't happen. You really need to focus on you and your needs. You won't be able to change him. Get as much support around you as you can and think about joining Al Anon, they can be very helpful in these situations. I urge you to take very seriously the situation you are in with this man. He is an addict, not in control of what he is doing and you need to prioritise you and your baby.

Loggins Sun 09-Feb-14 01:09:20

I think you know what you need to do. No way on this planet is he going to suddenly change when your baby is born.
I'm sorry.
I'd lock him out for the time being.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:09:34

Wibbly It's not that black and white. I don't think of him as an alcoholic, although I know many would disagree. He can go ages without drinking a drop. If he is with me or my family, he can drink a regular amount and be wonderful. It's just when he's out with 'the lads' it's like he has no self control whatsoever. I always thought it was an age thing he would grow out of. Then I thought he'd grow out of it when we had kids. But for the first time, it's hit me he might never grow out of it.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:11:34

How long have you felt he was selfish,and what do you want to happen
Given you've got difficulties in relationship,why get pg?are you hoping he calm down
3times a month,is majority of that month.inebriated.with you feeling v cross

RM0104 Sun 09-Feb-14 01:11:48

your future will be exactly like this? he can leave his pregnant wife on the doorstep, and go back to his drinking buddies, he has shown you clearly what his priorities are. and it most certainly doesn't look like fatherhood is a priority

Destinysdaughter Sun 09-Feb-14 01:12:11

Can I ask how old both of you are?

CoffeeTea103 Sun 09-Feb-14 01:13:01

You knew about his behaviour but chose to have a child with him. 3 times in one month is a problem.
You sound very naive to this problem which you're excusing as lads night out. This is not normal behaviour.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:13:09

Let's be clear don't lock him out.thats stupid advice.really stupid
Presumably his name is also on deeds,so no you can't lock him out his own home

Custardo Sun 09-Feb-14 01:13:37

so how often does he drink and how nasty does he get?

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:13:57

His level of drinking is seen normal in his family/friends/ work. I guess so many people thinking it's normal makes me think I'm being weird about it.

And I really don't ring every two minutes- honest! He went out at 11am the other Saturday to meet his dad in the pub for a few drinks. He said he would be home by 2pm. I didn't hear from him until he stumbled in at 2am. 12 hours without getting in touch once worried me. If he'd have said he would be in by 2am, I wouldn't have worried!

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:17:28

In time you've dated is this his pattern?excessive consumption.inebriation?
Did you hope being dad he'd calm more responsible
Will you work after the baby?have you arranged childcare

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:21:29

On my phone so sorry if I'm missing things. Were both late 20s/early 30s.

I reckon he used to get this drunk 3/4 times a year tops. He's definitely got worse since Christmas.

We don't argue about anything else ever. We get on so well, we are such a team, I wouldn't say our relationship has any problems at all. Yes, I thought becoming a father would calm him down. You have no idea how desperately he has wanted to be a dad, and for how long.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:24:38

But you're on mn posting whilst he's out getting bladdered.thats a problem
You think he drink too much.thats a problem.he appear to be in denial.thats problem
Your relationship has problems,big problem.alcohol.surprised you think it's all great

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:26:01

Re: how nasty he gets. It's tough to say. I used to drink a lot more too, and a few years back we would "clash" big time when drunk, so he was much more aggressive. Never hit me, ever, but lots of name calling/yelling in my face/ pushing etc.

About 8 months ago I had a night out and went back to a male friends house with a group of friends. DH reckons this male friend has a thing for me and went ballistic at me. I was curled up in bed while he hit me with a pillow repeatedly, threw a pint of water over me, and pushed me into the floor. That's pretty much the worst it's even been, and I'm not excusing him, but I had been drinking too and I know I'm much more "and what?! I don't care!" when I'm drunk, whereas if I'm not drinking, there is very little aggression because I sleep in the spare room and it never has a chance to escalate.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:30:47

Are you returning to work after baby,or will he be the sole earner
How are his finances if he drinks like that?

Loggins Sun 09-Feb-14 01:31:27

Locking the doors isn't stupid advice.
Why should you put up with him stumbling in after his utterly shit behaviour?
Do you want to talk to him tonight or in the morning? Not going to make much sense is he?

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 01:32:06

Op I would say your relationship does have problems....great huge big ones staring you in the face.
You should not be putting up with this especially whilst pregnant. hmm

So maybe when he eventually sobers up tmrw you may get an apology.
And then another ....and another....and another ....just awful

AchingBad Sun 09-Feb-14 01:32:59

I'm a recovered alcoholic and it pains me when I read how people are in complete denial of their partner's addiction. He doesn't need to be drinking at 4am or shitting the bed in order to be classed as an alcoholic. Thirty pints is such a massive problem and very soon his body will come to depend on that level of alcohol. His behaviour towards you when drunk is appalling. If he's anything like me he won't do a thing about his problem until he starts to lose the things that are precious to him. As long as he gets to keep his job, his comforts, the respect of his family and the love of his wife he has no reason whatsoever to re-evaluate his drinking.

The biggest problem here is not your husband's denial of his drinking problem, it is yours. Please open your eyes to the fact that he's in serious trouble and nothing will change until you stop enabling his behaviour. I'm so sorry to write so bleakly but I know exactly how he is operating and where he - and you - are heading.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:32:59

It's v stupid.yo you go sista advice,and of her dh named on deeds it's illegal

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:43:53

Can't lock him out of the house anyway (not because his name is on the deeds, it's not, we live with my Dad), but because if you have keys, you can get in. There is no way to lock him out.

I'm not in denial about his drinking anymore, promise. I know it isn't normal.

SM Yes, I was going to go back to work part time after baby was born. Finances are ok (mostly because we don't have big expenditure - see the 'living with my dad' bit). I'd manage without him, I just don't want to sad

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:47:49

Locking him out is daft advice,it's a symptom of a problem not a solution
So what do you want to do?will he moderate and change consumption?
If he won't then youve both got almighty problem

Dirtymistress Sun 09-Feb-14 01:55:19

The problem is that you will always come second. Drink will always be more important than you.
I was married to a mean drunk for ten years, i certainly wouldn't have had babies with him.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 01:59:12

SIL & BIL just dropped him home in a cab. I had asked them not to, and to take him home with them so I could have some space. He refused to go with them, stood in the street creating a scene. I made it very clear if he came in the house, I would leave. He didn't care. So I got in the cab and will stay at their house tonight.

Will deal with it all tomorrow. I just need to sleep now. Im tired and emotional. Thanks all.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 02:01:26

You need to look after yourself and to your mw next appointment

Kernowgal Sun 09-Feb-14 07:35:15

30 pints is not normal, not in a million years.

You say you live with your dad. What does he say about your OH's behaviour? Does he know?

What are you going to do when the baby is born, needing feeds every few hours, and your OH rolls in paralytic and abusive (let's call it what it is)? What if there's an emergency and you need his help or support but you can't rouse him without an earful of abuse or possibly worse?

Do you want your child growing up in this situation, really? And not to mention the cost - 30 pints - �100+ several times a month?

You can't change him. Only he can do that.

onetiredmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 07:43:33

Morning op, how are you?

Don't start minimising it smile

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 09-Feb-14 07:55:44

Sadly you can predict the future with people who behave this way. Whether you want to call it alcohol abuse, alcoholism or an alcohol problem it's not something that is going to clear up by itself and, left untreated, it's only going to get worse. The episodes will get closer together, the nice version of him will become a distant memory and one day you'll wake up and wonder where your life went.

The only solution is for him to seek help and he won't do that unless he believes he has a problem and/or that there are consequences to doing nothing. Having been through something very similar you have my sympathy because it's a thankless (and in my case ultimately futile) task. Good luck

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 07:57:00

I'm surprised that people are ignoring the bit about him throwing a pint of water over her and hitting her with a pillow.

OP, I don't need texts every hour, I didn't ask for that. I just tried to be reasonable with him in a "look, your behaviour isn't normal, I won't put up with it, if you don't want me to leave, find a solution and fix it" sort of way, and his solution was that he would set reminders on his phone every hour to keep in touch. Fat lot of good it did anyway.

So you've got your answer, he's not going to fix it, he doesn't care if you leave.

Thankfully you have somewhere to live, you're in a better position than you might be. If you don't want to split with him, tell him you need to put your child first and that includes having somewhere safe to sleep so he has to move out.

colditz Sun 09-Feb-14 07:58:11

"So sure he will change"

Of course he will change!

He will get worse. I would stake my savings on it.

The pressure of a baby, a wife who suddenly NEEDS rather than wants him, extra financial responsibility....

Oh yes. He'll change alright.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 08:01:54

Oh God how sad sad

glasgowsteven Sun 09-Feb-14 08:05:43

How very very sad.....alcohol and overgrown male children and the lads

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 08:08:21

30 pints?? 30 pints??!!

In what circles is 30 pints to be consodered normal?? I am a Scottish woman form a working class, drinking culture father is a long term functioning alcoholic, and I think 30 pints is a shocking amount to consume!!

Abd apparently that's three times he has done this in the last month?

Oh my goodness don't realise it, but you have big problems afoot here. You are settling down with a nasty alcoholic who treats you like shit!
No amount of contact when he's out, is ever going to change what you've got on your hands here.

As for him being contrite the next say...well so fucking what? He doesn't mean it. It's just the magic formula of words he uses to get you to shut up about his abysmal behaviour.
If he did mean it, he'd be so dismayed at his own conduct he'd go to great pains to ensure that such a thing never occurred again.
But that's not what he does is it? He says the magic shut-you-up words, and carries gaily on with his 30 fucking pints.

Three times in the last month you say? Yeah...he's dead sorry.

This behaviour will only increase. You need to get real and protect yourself and your baby from this drunken arse.

silkknickers Sun 09-Feb-14 08:08:30

i also picked up on the hitting OP with a pillow bit. As far as I know, DV often worsens during pregnancy.
The warning flags are all there, sweetie. You really do need to get out of this situation. I know how hard that will be, but I think everyone is pointing you in the right direction.

ChasedByBees Sun 09-Feb-14 08:09:40

30 pints is about 25 pints above normal.

Pushing and shouting in your face is abusive - it is emotional abuse with the threat of physical abuse.
Pelting you with a pillow and pouring water over while you are curled up is physically abusive.

This will not improve while you are pregnant and certainly not with a newborn - it's a massive test of any relationship. You can't make him change, he has to want to. I think leaving is your only choice here.

Slainte Sun 09-Feb-14 08:10:24

Even meeting someone (his DF?) for a few drinks in a pub at 11am screams "alcohol problem" to me.

NaffOrf Sun 09-Feb-14 08:13:49

OP, he is a violent, nasty drunk and your relationship is going nowhere.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

Your main responsibility now is to protect your unborn child.

You can only achieve that by leaving him, or making him leave.

tribpot Sun 09-Feb-14 08:14:28

You've fallen into the trap of thinking there is one type of alcoholic. This is not true. Some alcoholics can go weeks or months between drinks. If you prefer the term 'problem drinker' use that - because god knows this drinking is causing a problem.

You are living out the standard denial of someone in a relationship with an alcoholic - he/she is lovely when sober. He/she will change. Great. The only way for that person to be the lovely person is to be sober all the time. We cannot redefine our relationship with alcohol successfully.

It sounds like he is escalating, as others have said. You seriously cannot have this person around whilst you have a baby, let alone a child.

I'd suggest you have a look at Al Anon and maybe this book but please make no mistake: you cannot solve this problem. And he is choosing not to.

Pinter Sun 09-Feb-14 08:23:03

See what his apologies are like today. On the back of his apologising, he needs to leave while he sorts himself out

Recommend Al-Anon for you, starting immediately. It saved my life (though isn't for everyone)

Please don't minimise this, his behaviour was horrific

Lweji Sun 09-Feb-14 08:23:31

Read back your posts. You have stopped responding to him when drunk because he is aggressive and hits you.
What if it happens when you are holding the baby?

For your sake and the baby, get out now.
If you have a chance at all, he'd have to stop drinking and going out drinking altogether.

Men like this are not likely to get better when the baby comes. Only worse, because then you won't want to leave because of the child.
Or you are already living together, with joint tenancy, or you are financially dependent on him.

You should get out now. Really.

IshouldhavemarriedEwanMcGregor Sun 09-Feb-14 08:29:56

Is it actually possible to drink 30 pints? Is your dh built like a brick shithouse? I'm genuinely puzzled by this's shocking. Your partner's behaviour is shocking too.

My dh drinks way too much - about 6 pints of bitter three times a week or more sometimes - but he is not aggressive or abusive when drunk - it's still a big issue in our marriage!

lanbro Sun 09-Feb-14 08:30:12

Get out now. 30 pints is not normal. I know a lot of big drinkers and this is still 3 times the amount they drink. Any type of violence is unacceptable, no excuses. Think about your baby, that needs to be your priority.

If he is ever to change he probably needs to lose everything first.

Bowlersarm Sun 09-Feb-14 08:31:08

30 pints. 30 pints! How is that even possible?

So sorry op. It must be so difficult because you must think everything is so perfect but for this one problem. But I agree with the others. It's such a big problem, it makes him awful to live with, unreliable and unpredictable. All the things that are essential to a happy family life are missing with him.

And creating a scene in the street is just dreadful as well making him aggressive and immature to add to his negative personality traits.

Have a trial separation and see if he has it in him to want to change, and woe you back maybe?

lanbro Sun 09-Feb-14 08:33:36

Thinking about it, if I was in your situation I think my dad would be asking him to leave seeing as it's his house. What does your dad think about it?

MadIsTheNewNormal Sun 09-Feb-14 08:38:07

I think (in a normal relationship with a normal man) that one text to let you know he will be late is sufficient. Constant checking in is demeaning and controlling and unnecessary.

However, he sounds like an complete and utter arsehole and I pity you, truly, if you are about to have your first baby with an oafish loser like this.

Jesus fucking Christ. You poor woman.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 08:39:26

Alcoholism is not black and white. Many alcoholics can go a long time without drinking and use that as evidence that they are in control of their drinking. This man is a violent, abusive drunk and the fact that you excuse and minimize his assault on you because you were drinking too is very worrying. I met dh when we were in our early twenties, we did plenty of drinking but we would never have dreamed of getting violent - it is not normal behaviour.

30 pints is a terrifying and obscene amount to drink. The damage that onslaught of alcohol will be doing to his physical and mental health is extreme. If he truly is so desperate to be a father, he needs to commit to being there for his baby - this kind of drinking will destroy him. If you split, how could he get unsupervised access to his child when he is drinking at this level? As others have said, he won't be safe to drive for a couple of days after this kind of binge - do you want him strapping your baby into a car sear and taking the wheel whilst that much alcohol remains in his bloodstream?

You have identified that his behaviour has worsened since Christmas. It will continue to get worse if he continues to drink. He will need help and he will need to choose to seek that help.

I'm so sorry for your situation but this man is a danger to himself, you and your baby. You can protect yourself and your child by getting away or he can protect the three of you by seeking treatment. There isn't another solution.

petalsandstars Sun 09-Feb-14 08:42:37

What happens when the baby crying annoys him when he's drunk?

Seriously - you can manage on your own if necessary so he needs to leave and sort himself out. If he really wanted a baby that much it will shock him into what he will lose.

Otherwise he can have access - supervised so you know he is sober, and if you bf then it won't be alone for long ttime.

If he really wanted a baby for more control - she will put up with this rather than be a single parent then you are better off alone.

Red flags all over the place, sorry.

Cabrinha Sun 09-Feb-14 08:44:50

He poured water over you and hit you (with a pillow is still hitting you) and shouted at you because you were in a group with a man that he said fancied you.

And yet you get on so well, you're such a team...

No, you're not. Talk to you midwife love. This isn't going to get worse.
Your poor baby. You're a mother now - you need to protect that child from what s/he's going to see and hear and experience in future.

Ahoy I'm sorry, but you are in an abusive relationship.

It doesn't matter how drunk you/he may be, hitting your partner and throwing water over them is NEVER ok.

Where is your dad in all this?

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 08:52:00

I'm still baffled by the 30 pints thing.. drinking 30 pints of ANYTHING in a 24 hour period would be really bad for you, surely? I can't even understand how it's physically possible and, honestly, how he is still alive.

mineofuselessinformation Sun 09-Feb-14 08:53:05

OP, quite besides the outrageous amount that 30 pints is, how much does it cost? You said you don't have much money - sounds like he's pissing it up the wall. Sorry.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 08:53:51

This is a red flag. This is who he is.

He has a drink problem. He ignored you sitting in the doorstep...


mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 08:55:04

Just read the bit about throwing water and the pillow sad

This is abusive.

It won't magically stop when the baby comes. It'll get worse.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 08:56:42

Also it is worth noting that you say this bad behaviour of his...drinking copiously and being nasty, has increased since christmas.
It is a sad truth to say that it is extremely common for abusive men to ramp up their poor conduct and abusive behaviours when their partner is either pregnant or has recently given birth. This is because they consider the woman to be firmly 'locked in' to the relationship, as of course a baby makes it so much more difficult to cut their losses and walk away.
That is when they can drop their facade, and indulge the person they really are, thinking (often rightly) that their partner will have to put up with it.

Both babies and marriage are typical facilitators for abuse.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 08:58:59

Sorry - I didn't mean that women are obliged to put up with abuse. By 'rightly' I meant that women often do...not that they should.

rubyflipper Sun 09-Feb-14 08:59:07

This man is in no way a 'DH'. And he is not capable of being a loving, reliable father.

He is a nasty, abusive drunk who will never change.

What are you waiting for? Him to beat you and/or your child?

What does your father think of this man living in his home and treating his daughter and grandchild so badly?

I was wondering if you yourself grew up with an alcoholic parent.

The 3cs re alcoholism are ones you would do well to remember:-

You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

This will not get better for you whatsoever and you cannot deal with this. An alcoholic is never decent father material and I feel for your as yet unborn child. He has not been a decent man to you for goodness sake!. You have been in denial re his drink problem and it has cost you already dear. It will also cost your child dearly as well. Honestly you'd be better off raising this child as a single parent.

I would also read up on co-dependency as that is often present within such dysfunctional relationships. You and his wider family members have enabled him to date; all that enabling has done for you is give you a false sense of control. Enabling helps no-one, least of all the drunk.

Who is more important to you ultimately; this drunkard or your child. You really do not want your child growing up in such a house because this child could well end up with a whole host of emotional problems from living within such a chaotic home.

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 09:01:56

He won't change - more likely, as a poster upthread has said, he'll get worse after the baby is born and he realizes just how much a young child curtails your "freedom".

Plus you'll be lucky if he doesn't die of cirrhosis/stomach or throat cancer due to his extreme alcohol intake.

And he's violent and abusive when drunk.

He won't change. This is who he is.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 09:01:57

Also, re-reading your posts, you stated he never hit me,ever and in the next paragraph of that post you described him hitting you. He used a pillow - that's still hitting you. He shouts in your face, calls you names and PUSHES you when drunk - all of that is violence towards you. All of it. You think you can prevent this violence by not escalating it, not drinking yourself and sleeping in the spare room to avoid it happening but this won't work forever abd even if it did - why should you have to modify your behaviour in order to escape violence from your partner? Violence shouldn't be on the agenda in the first place.

The pressure and stress a baby will bring to your relationship will escalate this further, whatever you do to try to minimise it. Domestic violence often starts or worsens during pregnancy and once the baby is born. You have already excused and normalised so much - it is very frightening that you describe your relationship as problem-free except for his drinking when you are already experiencing domestic violence and in a prime position for it to get considerably worse. I really feel worried for you, OP.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 09:05:48

And he must be a pretty big bloke to be capable of 30 pints so when he pushes you, as you have described, he could use a considerable amount of force especially when so drunk - think of the damage this could do if it happens whilst you are heavily pregnant or holding the baby.

Badvoc Sun 09-Feb-14 09:08:09

You need to understand that this man is an alcoholic. He has a dysfunctional relationship with alcohol and is verbally and physically abusive when drunk.
Don't take too long to realise his.

BuzzardBird Sun 09-Feb-14 09:14:40

Not one person on here is going to suggest that you stay either with an alcoholic or someone who has been violent to you so what advice would you like from us?
You are going to have to split, you can't possibly have him around a child so all you need to be concerned about right now is whether he can manage to be sober for all his contact with your child because the first time he rocks up drunk would be the last time he saw his child to me.

BitOutOfPractice Sun 09-Feb-14 09:18:37

OP I am worried for you.

Read the first sentence of tribot's post again - it should ring alarm bells in your head

"You've fallen into the trap of thinking there is one type of alcoholic. This is not true. Some alcoholics can go weeks or months between drinks. If you prefer the term 'problem drinker' use that - because god knows this drinking is causing a problem."

Bunbaker Sun 09-Feb-14 09:34:26

This is my SIL's life.

She stayed with her alcoholic husband. He had fits, he has had bleeding from every orifice. His liver has only 20% function and his brain has been damaged from the liver's inability to deal with the toxins in his body. He lives on a cocktail of drugs and behaves like someone with severe dementia. SIL is imprisoned because she can't ever him on his own for any length of time. She sticks him in a home for a week's respite every now and again. His children hate him and my DD is frightened of him and all the neighbours laugh at him when they see him shambling down the street.

Is this what you want?

Being in denial won't help. You need to constructively get this man out of your life now

Pagwatch Sun 09-Feb-14 09:40:46

You are massively in denial

10 pints is excessive but you seem to think that 10 pints is ok. 30 pints is obscene.

He is violent in spite of your attempts to exclude hitting you with a pillow, screaming g in your face and pushing you. The fact that he attacks you when your are curled up a d defenceless is hideous.

Are you you going to bring a baby into a home with him at its heart?

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 09:45:50

God don't want to end up as his carer do you?
At nigh on 30 pints a sesh, that is a very real possibility. He'll treat you like a smear of shite on his shoe for years, then you'll get the privilege of nursemaiding him and all his alcohol related illnesses and health problems until he dies.
Sounds great doesn't it?

Bunbaker - so sorry about your sil. How perfectly dreadful for her. sad

Vakant Sun 09-Feb-14 09:52:07

I can only echo what everyone else has already said. This man is an abusive drunk, just because he's nice when he's sober doesn't change that fact. It will only get worse, if I was you I would get out now before he seriously hurts you or your baby.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 09:54:22

I'm up- sitting in SIL's bathroom reading the messages. Crying obviously. Didn't even read them all, but I get it. I really do.

But I wish so hard you could see how lovely he can be. How much my (very lovely very normal non-drinking) family adore him. How when he is sober, he worships the ground I walk on.

And it's so so hard not to minimise it, when everyone around me does. BIL and SIL have already said how sorry he sounds on this phone, how it sounds like he's been crying, how he just wants me home. They think I'm overreacting, I know it.

I know 30 pints seems MENTAL. I know. But 2-3 pints an over over a 10-12 hour drinking session never seemed so bad to me. As a teen, I could drink two bottles of wine before I even left the house to go out (half a bottle would have me on the floor now!), and I just sort of thought everyone drinks to excess sometimes, but grows out of it.

SIL said he's driving over now. I text him to say not to drive, I know he will ignore me. Like someone said up thread, his body is used to this. He won't be that hungover.

The saddest bit was actually that BIL said to me "honestly, he wasn't even that drunk". And I thought "so he was sober that night, when he walked past me shivering sitting on the doorstep like I was scum on his shoe?" And it hurt so much.

We've not even been marrie a year and I meant my vows so so much, and I know he did too. If he saw me upset, it would tear him apart. But not enough for him to change, I know that.

JohnnyUtah Sun 09-Feb-14 09:59:22

He may not feel ill, but there is no way he is legal to drive

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 10:03:31

But I wish so hard you could see how lovely he can be. How much my (very lovely very normal non-drinking) family adore him. How when he is sober, he worships the ground I walk on.

That's all irrelevant. Totally.

Lots of unpleasant and dangerous people are "lovely" in person.

And as for worshipping the ground you walk on?

Do you really think that's a good thing?

In a properly healthy relationship there's no worshipping of the ground, just two people who treat each other well.

The fact that your family and his excuse his appalling drinking and treatment of you is no surprise. Families are always sticking up for abusive men and telling women to put up with it.

This is the BEST time for you to get out.

This man is abusive and violent and has a massive problem with alcohol.

The way he beat you with that pillow and threw water is really chilling and a warning of what he is capable of.

I think you and your baby are at real risk of your lives if you continue this marriage.

LEMmingaround Sun 09-Feb-14 10:04:14

at about £3-4 a pint thats about £100 a night on alcohol - is he a millionaire?

You need to get away from this man - he is already violent, a baby is a well known trigger to escalate DV.

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 10:04:15

I'm trying to imagine how you fit 30 pints in to a night out. Say your out early about 7 and home at 3am. 8 hours for 30 pints. Including toilet breaks (bound to be a few) he will be drinking at a rate of 1 pint every 15 minutes. Thats not "sociable" drinking. You've barely an opportunity for chat and even the big drinkers I know, after 10 pints, are pissed. So with this guy, by 9 (accounting for being a bit faster at start of night) he is wrecked but keeps his drinking momentum going til hometime. Not a lot of socialising there. And I bet he's just charming company for everyone else in the pub to put up with.

And lets examine the cost. An average cost of a pint is £3 so he is spending £90 a night out and £270 in last month just on beer.

The bare facts do seem to point to quite a considerable problem with drink.

I think if I was living at my dad's I'd ask him to move out. Alcoholism is a well travelled road. There is plenty advice available to you. Don't bury your head in the sand.

Pagwatch Sun 09-Feb-14 10:04:20

And you know, crying and being sad and wanting you back is soooo easy. It really is.
If he was really sad, if you really mattered, he would not chose alcohol over you.
Because he is choosing alcohol over you every single time.

And he will choose alcohol over your child. Because no one, including your family, are telling him to stop.

lanbro Sun 09-Feb-14 10:05:12

I really feel for you, and your pregnancy hormones won't help you to think any clearer. My dh and I went through a tough time after our second was born, lots of going out and drinking involved resulting in screaming arguments and me being given the blame. Dh would say he'd had enough and threatened to leave. One night I called his bluff and he did leave. It was a turning point and we are back on track but only once he realised what he was going to lose, and accepted and understood what he was doing.

Things can change but you don't have any control over it, only your dh can make the change and tbh it sounds like he's very far from admitting there's a problem. Surely your father sees what happens, what are his thoughts?

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 10:07:01

He has seen you upset, and he didn't care a jot. Didn't alter a thing did it? He thinks your upset was just fine.

Judge someone not by what they say OP, but by what they do.

Talk is cheap.

BitOutOfPractice Sun 09-Feb-14 10:07:05

You should report him to the police for driving over the limit. Might give him a wake up call.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 10:08:17

You're in a far better situation than you could be.

You're at your dads. You can ask for a trial separation at no real consequence...the only effect it will have is to shock him into realising you will not accept this. If you had a joint mortgage and was a stay at home mum you'd be much more 'trapped'.

What I'm tryi g to say I'd do something now, before baby cones and before life gets much more complicated.

Come on love, you know this is doomed.
He's driving over, regardless of your stated wishes and will still be unfit to drive? All boo hoo poor me?
Adding on his alcoholism and his violent, selfish behaviours?
This man has no wish to change, just for you to STFU.
Do not have your child around this man. You WILL regret it.

LEMmingaround Sun 09-Feb-14 10:09:07

"We've not even been marrie a year and I meant my vows so so much, and I know he did too." NO he did not - in his vows he would have promised to love and respect and care for you. He isn't doing ANY of those things now - what makes you think it will be any easier when the baby comes along. I feel so sorry for that child if you stay with him

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 10:09:47

And he is DRIVING. WTF. That in itself would have me packing his bags. What a shit.

RhondaJean Sun 09-Feb-14 10:09:57

Please phone the police and tell them he is driving before he kills someone.

LEMmingaround Sun 09-Feb-14 10:11:04

He is driving?? oh i do hope he gets pulled over - if there is any bloody justice in the world he will be.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 10:11:34

He shouldn't be driving. Even if he doesn't feel hungover he will still be pissed...

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 10:12:42

Justifying his '2-3 pints over a 10-12 hour period' doesn't seem so bad....

Really these are Binges not just a night out with the lads. His Sil and Bil must have little respect turning up with him in the night....

I lived with someone who used to do this I really won't say how it ended....but it started just like this <thankfully never had child with him>

Hope he does 'drive home' safely this morning....amazed his wonderful family let him to be honest. I hope he doesn't harm anyone on his drive home.

But do you think he will never do this once baby arrives? I wouldn't wait round to see hmm

ScrambledSmegs Sun 09-Feb-14 10:12:50

Please report him to the police for drunk driving, he could kill someone.

ziggiestardust Sun 09-Feb-14 10:14:36

I think you know everyone is right OP. The drunk driving, the abusive behaviour, the alcoholism...

It's whether you want to be involved in this all your life. It will carry on. He'll snivel and whine and moan about how it isn't his fault, how he's damaged and only YOU can help fix him, and you're his princess and oh, it's good most of the time isn't it? Are you going to believe it? Are you going to let your child witness this?

RhondaJean Sun 09-Feb-14 10:14:44

Sorry wanted to post that fast but I'm going to be brutal now.

This man is a dick. He has no respect for you or anyone else. He is willing to put everyone at risk for what HE wants - driving this morning shows that.

This is not normal and he will continue to put everyone at risk including you and the baby once here. He's in a classic alcoholic/ abuser cycle of arseholes/ lovely. The next time he hits you it won't be with a pillow.

You are being utterly irresponsible if you continue living with him. Get out or get him out, get him to have professional help if you want to continue the relationship but he must do it and you can only think about that after he is sorted.

Unfortunately you are surrounded by enablers.

You need to be the one to think for you and this child. Chances are he won't change. If you don't take string action he definitely won't.

I get you about the phone thing now btw sorry about that.

LEMmingaround Sun 09-Feb-14 10:15:00

is your dad unwell/infirm? WTF is wrong with him - he needs to send this little wanker on his way - he needs to step up and protect his daughter. You re being seriously let down by the men in your life.

summermovedon Sun 09-Feb-14 10:15:08

My xh was a heavy drinker, 'beer boy' apparently. Good job, functional, just very sociable, charming etc. I can tell you right now having a baby does not change anything with an alcoholic and it is so damaging for the children. I thought he would change, he promised me the world. But the problem is with an alcoholic (and alcoholics all vary in the amount/type of drink/ frequency - what is persistent is the behaviour and reasons for drinking) is that when they promise you the world, they are lying. Not to be horrid, but it is all part of their illness and alcohol is number one priority. It might be disguised by 'but I was stressed, needed to unwind, seeing my friends, need freedom...' but basically that pint of beer is number 1. Over and above you and over and above your baby.

When I was pregnant, I would get phone calls from his friends telling me he was paralytic and on his way home, he would leave them, get on a tube, change direction and head for a party - somewhere. I drove around the streets looking and worrying because I didn't know what had happened to him. Once the baby arrived, I got angrier with his behaviour and the arguments got worse. I brought up young children on my own, because I could not rely on him to be home or sober. He could be on the phone, promises galore (on his way home, make dinner together, read to the children) and still disappear into a drinking establishment within a minute of hanging up. He could be literally 3 minutes from home at that point.

He was highly functional, one type of drink, only after work, not every day. If pushed could go for months without it. My children were used to hearing arguments from newborn, as my way of dealing with it initially was so fight him and confront his (awful) behaviour. I then realised that didn't work, so internalised all my feelings and tried to manipulate him. All that happened was - he didn't change. Actually, he did. He got a diagnosis of depression, and that just escalated his drinking and entitlement of space. He would let me know if I confronted him, he would kill himself and told me how. He has all the treatment money could buy, and never admitted his drinking problem, so nothing changed. Other than his new diagnosis meant he now did absolutely nothing with the children, has a lie in every day, and gave himself lots of treats. On top of the drinking.

Either way, it took a breakdown (me) and lots of therapy to realised that I would probably end up dead from stress if I stayed with him. I put down boundaries for the first time in my life, he broke them and he left. The children never once cried or asked where he was, he had been so absent in their lives. Living in that environment, his behaviour and the arguments has definitely damaged them. Even though I tried to shield them. But they are getting better every month. We (the children and I) are happy. We had not a bean when we left, he had debt (lots of debt) from drinking and credit card bills. I am now working, and a single mother, and happier than I have ever been. When it comes to living with a charming man like that, it takes every small bit of your soul and destroys it. There is no room in a relationship like this for two people. My advise to myself a few years ago, run run run like the wind and get out of that relationship, beg borrow and steal money for therapy, and realise that at the stage you a pregnant with your first child is the EASIEST time to leave and rebuild your life. It gets harder after that. He won't change. Not for you and not for your children.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 10:16:18

Do all these family members know he is violent and aggressive to you when drunk? Would they love him so much if they did?

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 10:17:19

I'm not saying your husband is an alcoholic but my ExH was/is.

He did things like this but I didn't call or text him to be honest. His behaviour got worse through my pregnancy and he did it when I was 40+5 weeks.

Sit him down, tell him it's not on and if it continues he risks losing you both.

I hope he pays heed to what you say unlike my ex.

I left with DD when she was 6 weeks. Never looked back either.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 10:17:22

Aww he sounded like he'd been crying. He must be really really really sorry then. Just like the last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And all the times before that as well.
So much sorry.
Sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry.See, if you say it over and over again, it starts to lose its meaning.
Funny that.

I'm sure he's quite brilliant at making everyone believe he is sorry, and feel sorry for him. dount he is quite adept at that.

Not quite so good at following it through though. Fancy. hmm

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 10:21:37

And will he be driving you and your unborn baby back home this morning? And everyone is totally happy with him taking that risk?

YokoUhOh Sun 09-Feb-14 10:23:35

Invite the police to your BIL's to meet him out of the car with a breathalyser. Do it.

Oh my dad was sorry, sorry, sorry too.
Sorry he spent all our money on booze.
Sorry he beat up mum.
Sorry he caused her to lose her child by beating her while she was PG.
Sorry for creating a hideous atmosphere at home when he was forced to stay in.
Sorry for shagging various OW.
Sorry for me having to hear them fight, alone in my room, curled up with the pillow over my head trying to blot it out.
Sorry sorry sorry

He was Mr you are my world Charming too. His pub mates just loved him.

I'm sorry that she stayed for far too long. Maybe if she had gone a lot earlier I wouldn't have PTSD and severe anxiety around men who are drunk.

I am very sorry indeed and much as I adore you mum, I hate that you stayed with him.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 10:25:40

Ok, if I'm honest, I'm not sure I would LTB over this and end the marriage. I can really see how that would be difficult when there are so many nice and happy times.

So, I would give him another chance. Ask him to move out for a set time period, at least 4 weeks. During the time I'd want him to give up alcohol and ask his GP for help and start being sorry rather than just saying it. I'd want the drinking money going in to a savings account for the baby. The relationship could continue as normal, but by 11pm he's out of the house for safety's sake.

Preciousbane Sun 09-Feb-14 10:26:32

My stepfather was an alcoholic, everyone down the pub thought he was a great bloke.

He was a very violent and dangerous one who drove my Mother mad and she then became seriously abusive to us, she was half way there already if I'm honest.He died at 49 and I still say it was the happiest day of my life.

It is very telling that he has become worse since Christmas, it is nothing to do with the season it is because you are PG.

I think you should ring women's aid for advice

Because however many stories we relay you may be very reluctant to believe your relationship is doomed. Speak to these people, they are sadly experts regarding abuse.

MadIsTheNewNormal Sun 09-Feb-14 10:27:29

It doesn't matter whether 10-12 pints is ok over a '12 hour drinking session.' That is beside the point. It's the 12 hour drinking session in itself which is so seedy and sad and pathetic.

Do you really want a lifetime with a man who thinks it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have regular 12 hour drinking sessions? Even the phrase makes me feel dirty, and I say that as someone who drinks with friends on a weekly basis.

It sounds to me as though everyone around you has a rather dysfunctional relationship with alcohol. They sound like the sort of people whose whole lives revolve around going to the pub and staying there for as long as possible at every opportunity. Uuuurgh.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 10:28:07

Logg1e have you read her posts where she describes his violence towards her when drunk?

TheLightPassenger Sun 09-Feb-14 10:28:07

please talk to your MW about this. Even if you aren't at the point of leaving yet, you can get support from al-anon and/or go on the Freedom course or get counselling.

But it sounds like he can already "give up" alcohol for weeks at a time. But then he goes out "with the lads" and the whole bloody thing kicks off again sad

That was to Logg1e btw

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 10:29:22

She's not going to do that Yoko!
Be realistic.
Right now she loves him, is having his baby, and wants more than anything to believe that he IS sorry, and that things will change.

We all know that he isn't, and they won't...but that is a conclusion OP will have to come to in her own good time. She is not about to incur the wrath of everyone she knows and cares about by calling the police on him!

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 10:30:05

Yes Jelly, I was the first one to pick up on the hitting and water actually. And by God, everyone's right. But I read what the OP had said about her marriage vows, and remembering how I felt at 8 months pregnant and was saying what I honestly would do. Because right now I can't see the OP divorcing him tomorrow.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 09-Feb-14 10:31:27

The normalising going on by your family is very frightening

Seriously - I think if I had told my parents that DH had hit me (pillow or not) they would have immediately cme and removed me from the house and they are not interfering types. However, he has totally crossed the rubicon here

I am not a LTB type but please listen to the advice you've got on this thread

I sincerely hope that he gets pulled over if he is driving - he'll still be totally wankered

My DH likes an occasional big night out. He's a 6 foot 6 rugby player and he was shock at your DH being able to drink 30 pints. He said after 10, he would be absolutely smashed and he doesn't know anyone who could come remotely close to drinking that. Your husband has a very serious drinking problem

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 10:31:30

Yes, money wise, a drinking session is easily £100. Easily. He gets paid cash in hand every Friday, and used to go straight to the pub from work. I used to worry so much how much money we'd be left with for the week. But he did grow up a bit, we saved for our wedding, the sessions stopped being weekly, and things changed.

BIL and SIL (who he was out with last night- SIL who is his DSis is my best friend, and met them after I left) used to have screaming drunk rows. I remember thinking what a nasty man BIL was once, at the awful things he said to her. But now they have these three amazing kids and BIL never seems like a nasty drunk anymore. And if there is a chance DH can change too, I'd stay in a heart beat.

He won't leave my dads. I know him. He'll stay because by staying he can keep proving how sorry he is, and I eventually give in. Iv told him before his word mean nothing and it's his actions that count, but then that sort of means Im ok with him until it happens again, and it shows his actions mean Fuck all too. And so it goes on.

Dad likes him a lot, I think. Although I guess he's never really seen him drunk and awful. Dad works nights and is mostly usually out when DH gets back in from a drinking session. I'd have to involve dad if I wanted DH to leave, and that's so difficult- Dad would have to tell him to leave (and I'm not sure he would/could do that), and it would make things so so awkward if me & DH stayed together.

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 10:31:54

Ok I retract my previous statement. Just RTFT. Your husband is an alcoholic and you have to address it now. Trust me when I say with the added pressure if a baby is drinking will most likely increase.

It's scary how much of this thread I could have written 3 years ago.

If you won't listen to others maybe you will listen to someone who has been you.

The apologies mean zilch if as he already has continues to do it. It shows a complete lack of respect for you. Do you want you and baby to be the bottom of his list of importance. My ExH priorities quickly changed. He stole from me while I was in hospital the night after I had DD to go out drinking. He woke me and DD up staggering n the house at all hours. Like I said I lasted 6 weeks after DD was born before leaving.

Your baby is your no 1 priority now. Tell your husband to get help or get out. The shock of you saying it might be enough to get help. If it doesn't or he doesn't think he needs it then I'm sorry to say the scale of priorities he has has already tipped in favour of drink and his drinking buddies.

I don't think anyone is suggesting divorcing him tomorrow, but by god does she need to get some distance between them ATM. He is abusive. And putting some distance between them is the first step to keeping her and her baby safe

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 10:33:39

Btw, OP, my dh is a lovely man who loves me and is loved by my family. In addition to this, he doesn't spend hundreds of pounds in the pub, he doesn't go on 12 hour binges, he doesn't risk his health binge drinking, he doesn't risk lives drink driving and I've never had to sleep in the spare room to avoid him becoming violent towards me. If any of those things were happening, it would cancel out his loveliness and devotion the rest of the time. It's possible to have a man who is lovely and devoted ALL the time. Don't settle for less for you and your baby .

He will leave your Dads if he and the Police tell him to.
You can start by telling your Dad exactly what he has been doing, including the violence.
And as for hanging around hoping that he turns out like your BIL?
Are you really going to gamble you and your child's future on that?

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 10:35:23

OP, He won't leave my dads. I know him. He'll stay because by staying he can keep proving how sorry he is, and I eventually give in.

Well no, you get to decide how he proves how sorry he is. He'll stay because it's cheap and convenient.

Your dad doesn't have to get involved, if you want to protect him. You tell him to leave and you get the police if he refuses. Tell them in advance.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 10:36:24

foxache, but by god does she need to get some distance between them ATM

Well, yes, hence my post.

Ok, so he won't leave your dad's because he insists that he can make it up to you hmm

Er, he doesn't have a choice in the matter. If you decide you need space (which I would strongly recommend you insist on) the he needs to leave. End of.

wannabestressfree Sun 09-Feb-14 10:38:34

Your making excuses....
My xh set fire to the house when drunk as he was cooking and feel asleep
He was too drunk to take me to my injections as our baby had to be induced early
He fell on me two days post section on his fourth wetting of the baby's head
He grabbed me by the throat when my son was three weeks old.
I am so so happy I don't live with him anymore. The youngest two visit and think he is a joke.

FunkyBoldRibena Sun 09-Feb-14 10:39:37

Christ on a bike - how much more warning do you need?

You can lock him out - change the fucking locks. And do it today. You are at your dads, he can change the locks, surely.

If you accept his apology you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of this.

30 pints is nearly 4 gallons. 4 gallons!!! Get a grip and end this before he ramps it up to actually beating you into a pulp.

These - people - do - not - change - no - matter - how - many - times - they - say - sorry.

MadIsTheNewNormal Sun 09-Feb-14 10:40:43

He won't leave my dads. I know him. He'll stay because by staying he can keep proving how sorry he is, and I eventually give in.

No, he'll just stay until he thinks he's broken you down and you give in. if he was truly sorry then he wouldn't keep doing it. It really is that simple.

expatinscotland Sun 09-Feb-14 10:41:25

Poor baby.

Actually it was the i would give him another chance bit that concerned me - it's too soon for LTB, but it is also too soon to suggest giving him another chance

juneau Sun 09-Feb-14 10:42:20

Do all these family members know he is violent and aggressive to you when drunk? Would they love him so much if they did?

Yeah, do they know that when he's drunk he hits you repeatedly with a pillow and knocks you on the floor FFS? Do they think he's such a 'nice guy' that he wouldn't do that now that you're pregnant with his child?

How about that he's happy to leave you freezing on the doorstep while he's out drinking half his body weight in alcohol and then, rather than call it a night and see you safely into the house, he just jumps right back into his cab so as not to interfere with his night of bingeing?

I know this is the man you've invested all your hopes and dreams for the future in, but I hope these replies are a wake up call. He's a drunk. He may be capable of being nice when he's sober, but even psychopaths can charming and nice - in fact they're known for it. I'm not saying he's a psychopath, just that he can be a 'nice guy' to all your friends and still be an arsehole when that front door closes and it's just you and him. Only YOU know the real him. Your family clearly does not.

knickernicker Sun 09-Feb-14 10:42:26

It is rare for an alcoholic to change.

MrsWolowitz Sun 09-Feb-14 10:42:37

we are such a team, I wouldn't say our relationship has any problems at all

Oh OP. I'm so sorry but you're not a team. If he doesn't respect you when he's drink, he just doesn't respect you.

Hitting you with pillows? Shouting in your face? Not leaving when you asked? Driving when you (very sensibly) told him not to? He doesn't respect you.

Yes, he will cry and maybe improve for a while but honestly OP, he won't change. He doesn't think you will ever leave him. Neither do you, but you can. You really can.

juneau Sun 09-Feb-14 10:43:35

And this: if he was truly sorry then he wouldn't keep doing it. It really is that simple

expatinscotland Sun 09-Feb-14 10:43:43

30 pints! I couldn't even drink that much water in a sitting.

Pagwatch Sun 09-Feb-14 10:44:43

His words mean nothing.
But then neither do yours
There is no consequence for him.
You insist on change but don't mean it
He promises to change but doesn't mean it

So nothing will change unless you say 'it stops or its over ' and actually mean it.

I am pretty pessimistic . I think you would rather hope than rock the boat. But if you do, or when it gets worse which it will, I hope you take some of the advice on here.

HolidayArmadillo Sun 09-Feb-14 10:46:44

It's the living in dread I couldn't cope with, even if he managed to keep his behaviours under control for the rest of your pregnancy, the sick feeling you'll have when he announces he's going out to 'wet the babies head' just as you're home from hospital, when you need him most will no doubt dispel any 'but he's changed' thoughts. Why would he change when there is no consequence for his behaviour?

knickernicker Sun 09-Feb-14 10:47:09

Resurrect this thread in 5 yrs time. Will you be describing a different life to us then or,will you be reporting that this lifestyle is ongoing?

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 10:47:16

Am I right with the following timeline, OP?

You got married less than a year ago - a clear statement of being more 'locked in' to the relationship.

Shortly after the marriage, he assaulted you whilst drunk by hitting you with a pillow, throwing water at you and pushing you to the ground. This is 'the worst it's ever got' according to you.

About three months after that incident you became pregnant with a baby he 'longed for'.

Approximately three months into the pregnancy (ie when it's definitely going ahead) his drinking escalates and becomes more frequent. Correspondingly, his treatment of you worsens.

The wedding and the pregnancy were events when he cou and have made the choice to grow up, take control and commit to his new family. Instead, he saw that you were becoming increasingly entrenched in the relationship and it would be harder for you to leave. So he felt free to start behaving exactly as he wanted to.

Doesn't sound exactly like a man who worships the ground you walk on.

How about thinking about your baby?

Even before birth, babies in the womb experience the adverse effects of poor diet, drugs and alcohol use, or violence perpetrated on their mother. Maternal stress experienced during pregnancy can cause physiological stress responses in the foetus, which affect the amount of oxygen and nutrition received by the unborn child (Rice, Jones, & Thapar, 2007). Other peri-natal complications may include withdrawal symptoms and premature births (Kroll & Taylor, 2003; Tunnard, 2002).

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 10:48:31

Agreed jelly, agreed.

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 10:48:37

So if you ask him to leave that won't be enough? He will just ignore you? Leaving last night shows to me that you know why this needs to be done. If you don't follow through today, the next time you leave he won't even bother phoning in the morning.

Use this opportunity to address it all head on. No, its not easy, nothing worth doing is. But at least you stand a chance of fixing things if you make a stand.

ProfessorSkullyMental Sun 09-Feb-14 10:50:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

juneau Sun 09-Feb-14 10:51:15

I'm always nervous of men who 'worship the ground' a woman walks on.

3littlefrogs Sun 09-Feb-14 10:51:50

Get out now OP.
Living with an alcoholic is dangerous and soul destroying. Not just for you but for your DC.
He will not change. He will only get worse.
If you stay with him you will be back on here again and again as things escalate.
He won't take responsibility for himself, his drinking, his health.
How on earth is he going to be a responsible partner and parent to your child?
You said it yourself in the last line of your OP.

ShatzePage Sun 09-Feb-14 10:53:53

He is driving drunk. He is SCUM. You are putting the life of your unborn baby at risk if you get in the car with him but I bet you will.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 10:55:29

I don't think of him as an alcoholic, although I know many would disagree. He can go ages without drinking a drop. If he is with me or my family, he can drink a regular amount and be wonderful. It's just when he's out with 'the lads' it's like he has no self control whatsoever.

This is exactly why you need to go to a few Al Anon meetings. OP: You have no idea what an alcoholic is. Go to Al Anon, and listen to some of the men and women telling their stories and how their married life started out. And please God, if there's a small voice in your head telling you that you identify with their stories, listen to it. And imagine yourself in five years' time living the lives they describe.

You're closer to it than you think.

I'm so sorry, OP. This must be so far from what you dreamed of.

MrsTomHardy Sun 09-Feb-14 10:55:35

This is possibly the saddest thread I have read on here for a long time hmm

hollyisalovelyname Sun 09-Feb-14 10:56:07

I am going to be really harsh.
Cop yourself on girl.
There's a child's life at stake.
Tell your dad how awful he has been.
Tell him to leave and get help for his alcoholism.
Is he really drinking 30 pints in a session?
If you love your baby report his drink driving to the police. It might be a wake up call.
Does he love you? I don't think so. He loves drink more anyway.

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 10:56:37

Out of interest OP what is your limit. Where do you in your head think you would draw the line?

You have to stop making excuses for the man. He is a man not a teenager, he makes his own choices.

You have plenty of women on this thread who have been through it including myself and I do not see one single post saying:-

Yeah my husband did this but do you know what, once the baby came he grew up, stepped up and became a good husband/father.

Generally people like this don't change. Their behaviour escalates alongside the drinking. I stand by what I said, tell your husband you want him to seek help for his drinking. If he refuses or if he says he doesn't need it then you already have your answer. He is in denial and his drinking is higher up on his priorities than you and how you feel, and in turn your unborn child. That in itself speaks volumes.

BitOutOfPractice Sun 09-Feb-14 10:59:13

Don't you dare get in the car with him!! He is WAY over the limit. Even if you are stupid enough to risk your own life, you have someone else to consider now

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 11:03:22

OK, my apologies - I refreshed the thread (doh!) and realised that the penny has dropped for you.
If I may, Al Anon is still helpful. It's a whole fellowship of men and women who have to try to negotiate life around the presence of active and recovering alcoholics, including those who have left alcoholic partners but who still have to deal with them (e.g. because of shared children).

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 11:03:23

And he won't leave YOUR father's house if you ask him to - only if your dad does? He will drive drunk when you ask him not to and expect you to get in the car with him? Your feelings, wishes and wants count for absolutely nothing in this relationship. He has no respect for you at all. His refusal to leave makes that abundantly clear - the only thing that matters to him is what he wants.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 11:06:56

And I recognise that the OP has probably gone from this thread, back to her husband, but I hope that the next time he is out drinking and she is at home wondering when he will be back and what he will do when he is, that she reads this thread again and takes some of the excellent advice.

eurochick Sun 09-Feb-14 11:07:58

The biggest worry for me is the violence. Will he push you when you are holding a newborn? Will he beat you with a pillow if the baby is alongside you? How would he react to the baby screaming when he comes in from a night out.

And the drink driving is horrifying. Will he drive with the baby when he is over the limit?

onetiredmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:11:00

OK OP, I think you will give him one last chance (& then another & then another) so I wont echo what EVERYBODY else has said so far.

I left my alcoholic & drug addicted exH when my DS2 was four months old. It can be done & when you reach that point, start another thread & we will help you. Just because you don't take our advice now doesn't mean you cant post again for help if you need it.

In the meantime open a bank account, have the statements online & make sure nobody except you knows it exists. Start getting some money together so you are able to run in the night if you need to. Talk to your dad.

ProfessorSkullyMental Sun 09-Feb-14 11:11:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:15:35

Will read all the posts later. I asked him to leave. He says I'm being crazy, I'm unreasonable, I'm hormonal. He said as soon as he woke up this morning, he ring SIL and swore he'd never touch a drop again while I'm pregnant.

He's following me around apologising, and I'm almost hysterically crying at him (I'm not putting across all your reasoned logical posts very well!).

He said he wouldn't leave, so I messaged his family. His brothers, sister and parents. Told him we had been having issues, and I'd asked him to leave to give me some space. I told them I wanted a week, and if one if them could have him that would be great.

He's angry and embarrassed I've involved his family, and I have no doubt at all they will all think I'm just doing this because of hormones and that I'm overreacting. But he's going anyway. For now. Will re-read the thread properly now.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 11:19:04

Me too Jelly

No matter what any of us say, how we chuck the reality of her marriage at her, harshly or not, she is nowhere near ready to take a stand against his drink problem and abuse.
Her friends and family are on his side (as is so often the way in these situations) because she keeps how bad it actually is a secret from them. She doesn't want them to know the truth about him...because if other people know, it becomes real.
It's easy to confess to us, because our opinions don't matter. If we say something she doesn't want to hear, she can say "oh what do they know? Bunch of strangers on the internet? Who cares!" and carry on gaily minimising and normalising his obscene drinking and resultant disgusting treatment of her, telling herself it isn't so bad really, and that he loves her and will change.

The realisation of what she's got is what she's going to get will take time, and a lot more of her pain, and his crocodile tears, before she's had enough.

This thread is the tip of the iceberg, that's all.
But those cogs are starting to turn...and that's how it works.


You have done the right thing.

He won't touch another drop whilst you're pregnant. So, what happens when you've had the baby? He goes back on the booze? Not good enough

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 11:20:59

Well done, OP, sounds like you have been incredibly brave especially given the lack of support from family. A week's breathing space sounds like a really good idea flowers

silkknickers Sun 09-Feb-14 11:22:29

well done, Oxx

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 11:22:54

Wow - cross posted or what??

OP - well done!! Very impressed with you! I didn't see that coming at all!

You are absolutely right to tell people what has been happening. You don't owe him your silence, and his embarrassment is neither here nor there I'm afraid. You are not responsible for it - that's his own privilege.

You done GOOD.

summermovedon Sun 09-Feb-14 11:22:59

Good for you, now make sure you stick to your guns. Make sure you only allow him back when and if you have had enough time to think and decided what you want. He will promise you the world, but what he says no longer matters, it is what he does. You need to be absolutely sure of what you want. And he will not suddenly turn a corner and change, no matter what he says. Change could take years, if it happens. And only giving up drink 'while you are pregnant', really does say it all. He really doesn't see what he is doing, does he. You do not want a drunk on your hands with a baby too.

petalsandstars Sun 09-Feb-14 11:24:00

Good start OP take as much time as you can to consider the future and if he should be in it as a husband.

summermovedon Sun 09-Feb-14 11:24:10

Someone upthread suggested Al Anon meetings, they can be good. As can CoDA meetings (codependency).

Chopchopbusybusy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:24:56

You're making excuses for him. Drinking 10 pints is not normal, 12 hour drinking sessions are not normal and 30 pints could kill him. If he doesn't stop drinking completely your relationship is doomed. Stop excusing his appalling behaviour.

MrsTomHardy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:25:37

So he's said he'll stop drinking while you're pregnant....but I assume then he'll start up again once baby is born...that'll be something for you to look forward too...not!!!!

Good luck OP....

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 11:26:01

Well done.

His 'not drinking while your pg' isn't enough. Will he start again with a newborn?! 6 week? 6 month old baby?

You are not hormonal. You are not hysterical. You are being the sensible, responsible grown up.

Be strong x

Your crazy, hormonal, embarrassed him in front of family?
And this is the man who wants you to believe he is sorry?
Keep him out.

Chopchopbusybusy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:27:12

Sorry cross posted. Glad you've taken a firm stand. It's not good enough to just stop drinking while you're pregnant. It needs to be forever. It really doesn't sound as though he can ever have a healthy relationship with alcohol.

shadylane Sun 09-Feb-14 11:30:14

He's an alcoholic. You can't change him but he can change himself. Doesn't mean he won't be a good dad. He can get help. Google alcoholism and have a look for support for both of you.

shadylane Sun 09-Feb-14 11:32:13

Focus on yourself and your baby.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 11:32:28

I asked him to leave. He says I'm being crazy, I'm unreasonable, I'm hormonal.'s YOU that's in the wrong. That's the way to address it - blame someone else! Always a peach that!

He's following me around apologising - why? Is that the magic make-it-all-better word? He's already told you that you're crazy and hormonal and in the event of you not agreeing that you are the problem here, he's trying good old fail safe 'sorry'.
Churn it out and hope for the best eh?

He's not taking you seriously whatsoever. Stick to your guns lady!!

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 11:38:03

He won't drink again while you're pregnant?


I guess that gives you your answer about having a baby making him "grow up".

You CANNOT bring a baby into a home like this.

It's not fair.

waterlego Sun 09-Feb-14 11:43:22

OP, I'm as horrified as everyone else and I'm really glad you've taken a first step. It must've taken real guts for you to contact his family about it.

They all think you're being hormonal and are overreacting but they are wrong. Let them think that, it doesn't matter.

I hope you will feel able to let him know that he needs to be gone for a lot longer than a week- possibly forever, depending on the choices he makes in the coming months.

For me personally, I would need to see at least a year of total abstinence, along with intensive professional help to consider continuing the relati

Good luck OP.

Electryone Sun 09-Feb-14 11:44:10

But I wish so hard you could see how lovely he can be. How much my (very lovely very normal non-drinking) family adore him. How when he is sober, he worships the ground I walk on

Well wouldn't that just be perfect if he was always sober then eh - but hes not. Im sorry to sound harsh but I've seen threads like this many times before and generally they just go round and round in circles until the OP faces the painful truth - that they have to leave for their own mental and physical safety. And I've got a feeling its going to happen here.

waterlego Sun 09-Feb-14 11:44:20

relationship. Silly iPhone.

sisterofmercy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:48:11

That took courage, that did, OP.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:49:50

He swore on the babies life he would never touch another drop. And I don't really believe him. And more than that, I don't want him to stop drinking completely, because it's not sustainable, I know that. One night out with his dad/brother/cousins and they would all be like "oh come on mate, ignore your missus, have a few!" And he would. I sit want to be the nagging wife that stops him drinking ever, when no-one but me thinks he has a problem.

Dad walked in on me crying, and I told him I had asked DH to leave. Explained I didn't like DH when he was drunk, but didn't go into detail. I told him about how I'd say on the doorstep in the cold, and he didn't even ask if I was ok or check to see if I got in ok before he turned around. Dad said "oh sweetie. It's just so difficult because you're be drinking. If you were drinking, you'd be fun and these things wouldn't bother you".

And that hurts too sad My dad who I adore just thinks it's ok and I'm being a bit unreasonable.

DH didn't take anything with him when he left, so I know he will be back. He doesn't expect me to stick with my ultimatum that I want him out, since I've never stuck with anything before. If he comes back, I will ring my lovely sister (who possibly would see his drinking as more unreasonable, she doesn't socialise in circles like I do), and I'll go stay with her.

I'm adamant I want some space, but I don't want to split from him for good. I just want him to realise I mean it this time, and that he needs to change. sad

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 11:50:39

In AlAnon (sorry to sound like a broken record) you will also learn the damage caused by enabling behaviour - essentially, behaviour on the part of those that surround and support the addict that enables him/her to continue in their addiction.

By insisting that he leave now (or by leaving him), you will be breaking with that behaviour, and leaving him to face the consequences of his addiction. If you love him, do it - because it may be what he needs to get help himself. As long as you're there, "I can't be that bad, can I?" will be what he tells himself. With luck, it'll be a different story once he has to say "my wife and child live somewhere else because I can't stop drinking to excess." (Which he might not say, of course, depends how deluded he is, but that's not the point!)

As a footnote, recovery from addiction is possible (I'm living testimony to that), although I will concede that it is relatively rare and requires work. You wouldn't be the first family to reunite once continuous and stable recovery has been established, though it can be a bit of a rocky road and, to be frank, I suspect it's the exception rather than the rule. I wouldn't want to give you false hope on this. But I think it's important for you to know that your husband can get help, and it's not impossible for this story to have a good ending - even if you don't reunite. Just to be absolutely clear, though - I do believe that your departure (or his) is an essential part of that story.

Sorry to drone on.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:50:45

I'm afraid you've nailed it If he saw me upset, it would tear him apart. But not enough for him to change, I know that

Your dad likes him.well would hope he would like his son in law. But and here the but your father must prioritise you.if you want your dh to leave,your dad must support you

Re terminology. I think you've conceptualised problem drinker as shambolic,lost it all.and you're thinking but he's got job,and gets tanked few times. But bottom line is he's drinking 30+ pints! won't stop!fights with you. Verbal and physical altercations

This is really grim

Talk to mw, let her know of the situation

If you were drinking, you'd be fun?
You need to tell him about the violence but TBH your dad is a twat.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 11:54:24

Damn these cross posts. OK, short and sweet - get him out, go to Al Anon (while you are still pregnant and not with baby in tow) and then make your decisions.

It's a great shame that your DH appears to think that the solution is for neither of you to be sober, and while I know that people don't always understand these situations, I hope you can see that he is being a little short-sighted in this instance.

"He swore on the babies life he would never touch another drop. And I don't really believe him".

They all say that, swearing on the baby's life indeed. Pah!!!, he's being pathetic.

You are right not to believe him.

You cannot help him either; you can only help your own self here by leaving him. If he has indeed gone, for god's sake do not take him back.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:55:52

Sorry - a crap load of spelling mistakes there - stupid phone.

I will look into Al-Anon. I remember looking into it a few years back, when I first started noticing the red flags. I was on the laptop when he came in once, and he said I wasn't listening to him (I genuinely don't hear him, my hearing is awful) and he grabbed the laptop out of my hand and threw it against the wall. I'll have to find the thread I posted on then under a different name, but I remember what it said. Lots of "leave while you are young and not tied down. You don't want to bring a child into this". I'm an idiot.

But it's not like he's the only man I've ever been with- I've dated many men, and am reasonably attractive/ well educucated etc (and modest too, clearly!) and no-one has ever made me as happy as he has. No-one has ever hurt me as bad either admittedly, but I can't imagine meeting anyone else who would make me happier.

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 11:55:58

You know he'll go out wet baby head and get hammered when baby born
So you leave,stay at sister and your dad and husband remain living together?thats not right
I hope I'm not pessimistic bit he won't change.youre married to a problem drinker

Pagwatch Sun 09-Feb-14 11:57:37

"Dad walked in on me crying, and I told him I had asked DH to leave. Explained I didn't like DH when he was drunk, but didn't go into detail. I told him about how I'd say on the doorstep in the cold, and he didn't even ask if I was ok or check to see if I got in ok before he turned around. Dad said "oh sweetie. It's just so difficult because you're be drinking. If you were drinking, you'd be fun and these things wouldn't bother you".

You poor thing.
You are surrounded by people who are deeply stupid.
Try not to be hurt. Try to recognise and value your own strength in seeing that this life lived propped up by alcohol is not normal. And that your family are seriously skewed .

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 11:58:25

Incidentally, that thing where you're the only one who thinks he has a problem and all his mates don't? That's because he surrounds himself with drunken imbeciles as well. There's a reason for that.

I implore you, OP, do not go down the road of telling him he's got to rein it in. If that worked, he'd have stopped this behaviour long ago. The world's full of drunks who keep trying to rein it in.

waterlego Sun 09-Feb-14 11:59:37

You're not an idiot, Ahoy, you are in love and this has blinkered you to the reality of what he's like. You haven't done anything about it before, but you can now. Calling yourself an idiot is blaming yourself and this isn't your fault.

I'm very concerned that your dad doesn't seem to think this is a big deal- it IS a big deal.

Is your dad a drinker too?

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 12:03:26

Well done. Your dad is wrong. You will find the support you need if you look for it. You have the strength to do this for you and the baby.

You may actually get through to him. He may seek help. But at least now you are not burying your head and you are giving your baby the best chance in life.

Good luck

"But it's not like he's the only man I've ever been with- I've dated many men, and am reasonably attractive/ well educucated etc (and modest too, clearly!) and no-one has ever made me as happy as he has. No-one has ever hurt me as bad either admittedly, but I can't imagine meeting anyone else who would make me happier".

Or subsequently make you unhappier. And you're bringing a child into this mess as well.

All the above is your co-dependency talking. It's high time your own relationship standards got dragged a hell of a lot higher, also you ignored and or minimised the red flags in this person some years back. Why did you do that?.

And your dad is no decent role model to you either is he?. You've previously written about him as well and he, not too put too fine a point on it, is also a mess.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 12:04:54

Another domestic abuse fact for you OP - when women are making moves to remove themselves from an abusive situation, they are often talked into going back by genuinely well meaning friends and family, who also minimise and normalise abusive behaviours. They think they have a good grasp of what is really going on, when they rarely actually do.

Your father is being extremely short sighted on this issue.

moondog Sun 09-Feb-14 12:04:59

Thirty pints?
Thirty pints??

That an intelligent woman would even consider getting involved with someone as screamingly dysfunctional as this is beyond belief.

petalsandstars Sun 09-Feb-14 12:06:42

Tell your sister everything

You've already protected him by not telling your dad the whole truth.

If he knew that he'd been violent would he still support your h? If he would then you definitely need to leave his house too.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 12:06:54

"I will look into Al-Anon. I remember looking into it a few years back, when I first started noticing the red flags... he grabbed the laptop out of my hand and threw it against the wall. I'll have to find the thread I posted on then under a different name, but I remember what it said. Lots of "leave while you are young and not tied down. You don't want to bring a child into this".

I can't remember when I last read something that so beautifully illustrated one simple fact: alcoholism is a progressive illness.

"no-one has ever made me as happy as he has. No-one has ever hurt me as bad either admittedly, but I can't imagine meeting anyone else who would make me happier."

I beg you, read your own posts. This is part of the insanity that partners of alcoholics start to drop into.

TexasSunshine Sun 09-Feb-14 12:08:20

I'm so sorry you're going through this. (((Hugs)))

I'll tell you my story.

Three weeks ago my dh collapsed and couldn't get out of bed. A combination of stress, overwork, recovering from a bad cough/cold, and binge drinking for months -years- finally led him to see his gp and a diagnosis of depression, alcoholism, and inflammation of the liver.

When sober he is such a lovely man. When drunk he is verbally aggressive and has fallen asleep with the oven on or the hob on when no one else is at home.

There have been times when it was better and other times when worse. I kept hoping out would change and told him we wouldn't have kids until he sorted himself out.

He has been off the drink now for 10 days and believes he will die if he drinks again due to bad state of his liver. He has been to see a consultant this week and last for tests and scans of blood, kidneys, liver, brain. Now that he's quit his prognosis is good. Liver is 2 to 3 times the size it should be but has minimal scarring. He's going in for a colonoscopy later in the month and liver biopsy, so not all clear yet.

Doctor is amazed he looks as good as he does consider ing he was drinking almost a bottle of vodka a night for the past couple of months.

I have been so worried for so long and we were fighting about the drinking for so long.

Horrible it took this as a wake-up call, but I think it will actually work.

I really hope it works out for you. Your husband should see his gp for a general health check. He's killing himself.

Fluffycloudland77 Sun 09-Feb-14 12:10:09

So you have to drink to be fun? Wow.

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 12:12:30

Well done OP. My advice is pack a bag for him for a week just now, give it to whoever he is staying with and do not cave.

You need this time to think clearly and he needs to reflects. I'm not saying he can't change, he can. If he wants to.

Hope it all works out for you but do not to get into a position that means you can't leave if or when you need to.

Save some money (a running away fund). Tell your Dad everything and if you have to tell his family too. I told my ExH family, they didn't support me as they are all heavy drinkers. His might support you and in turn your husband.

Good luck.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 12:12:32

I can well imagine my own father in the same situation. He would dismiss the seriousness of it too - no doubt about it. My dad is another pisshead who thinks it's all grand.
I mean yes, his alcoholism and binge drinking destroyed his marriage and his relationship with his kids (I had no contact with him for over 20 years owing to his drunken rages, abuse and selfishness), but that was my mother's fault, not his.

I am the child of your scenario OP. Your dad, my dad, your husband, your bil and sil....all of them....WRONG!

AchingBad Sun 09-Feb-14 12:13:59

OP, I posted last night with a heavy heart 'knowing' that your blind love for your husband was going to ruin you. I'm thrilled to read you've been brave enough to tell your family what's been going on (although they really do need to know everything). Your dad is, indeed, deeply stupid and I would look elsewhere for support.

Please, please try to see that there is a much larger creature looming in your relationship than this 'amazing' love you have between you. It cancels out all the good stuff and will destroy yours and your child's lives. You must begin to see there is no hope here until and unless he gets help. You need to start thinking of a life somewhere away from your dad's. It's time you left him, too.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 12:14:52

Your dad doesn't get it. You're surrounded by drinkers.

My dad likes a drink and is a working class bloke- if a man left one of his daughters sat on a step, pregnant, then turned around and went off again he would be angry. He'd think the bloke wasn't a proper 'man'.

Electryone Sun 09-Feb-14 12:15:48

And one of the times a person is most at risk in an abusive relationship is when they finally try to leave.

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 12:16:21

And you haven't been stupid. Sometimes it takes pregnancy or a baby to life the fog and allow you to see clearly.

What would be stupid is to continue down this route without trying to do change it. You've already taken the first step, that is a massive achievement in situation like this

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 09-Feb-14 12:17:52

You would be better off without your husband and your dad.

Your dad doesn't care you are upset. He just wants to keep his drinking buddy. Get drunk while you are pregnant?

It is bollocks your husband would be torn apart if he could see how upset you are. He should know it from what you have told him and if not, record yourself and play it back to him.

Your life is unsupported and your baby is being born into crap.

LEMmingaround Sun 09-Feb-14 12:20:30

What will you do if he comes hone drunk and punches you in the stomach?

nessus Sun 09-Feb-14 12:25:24

Umm...did you tell him you were pregnant around Xmas by any chance hmm

Sounds like you are in a hot mess situation OP. Don't envy you but sure there is a lesson in this for you. Each moment is a choice that leads to the next. That is life in its essence. How are your moment to moment decisions currently stacking up if you are to be honest with yourself? And where do you see it all going in the future?

I cannot deny that I chose this life I am living and IMHO neither can you. You have lots of realities to choose from which is a good thing as it sounds like your current one is not the best experience you could be having right now.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 12:27:49

Sounds like your sister would be a good person for you to be around. I'm horrified by your dad's response and sadly it sounds like there is no one to reinforce what you are telling your husband - this level of drinking isn't compatible with family life. You can't afford it. The effects on his health will be catastrophic. If you have to drink to tolerate his behaviour, that's hardly compatible with a newborn. And, most importantly, he is violent and aggressive when drunk. That, combined with drink driving, means it's a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. Don't let it be you or your baby.

Your husband is a selfish, abusive alcoholic.

Your dad is a wanker.

I'm sorry you have such unsupportive men in your life.

But the sad reality, as other have said, is that he has, and will continue to, choose drink over you and the baby. The sooner you accept this, the sooner you can choose how to proceed with the rest of your life.

OutragedFromLeeds Sun 09-Feb-14 12:36:26

Alcoholics can change, can go into recovery, but not until they realise and accept they have a problem and really, really commit to making the change. It's not easy.

If everyone around him thinks the way he drinks is ok, he has significantly less chance of recovery than other alcoholics (whose family recognise their problem).

The best thing you can do for him, for the baby and for yourself is leave. Leave until he is properly sober and enrolled on a program. It has to be 100% no alcohol ever again, alcoholics can't be occasional/social drinkers.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 12:37:15

I think it's preferable to point out to the OP, and reassure her that her dad says some stupid, dangerously stupid, things sometimes. If you tell her that her dad, who she adores, is a twat or a wanker, then she'd be quite reasonable in not listening to you.

FunkyBoldRibena Sun 09-Feb-14 12:39:58

So you knew they were red flags, you looked for advice from Al Anon, you were told not to have a baby with him and you are.

Look, women can't 'change' men. You are not his saviour. All this sorry, swearing not to drink again whilst you are pregnant, yada yada yada. It's just bollocks. You know that. He is what he is. An alcoholic. Who has started hitting you and throwing you on the floor. Do you honestly think it's going to magically get better once you have the baby and presumably, are not working and on maternity leave/a SAHM? And isolated from friends and family because he tells them you aren't any fun because you don't drink?

Pull the other one, it has bells on.

LIZS Sun 09-Feb-14 12:40:41

Please tell your sister now , don't wait . Everyone around you will try to convince you that you're wrong and you desperately need an ally and safe haven.

whitesugar Sun 09-Feb-14 12:43:45

Ahoy you are in complete denial. Read the sentences below which you wrote over and over again until it sinks in.

I was curled up in bed while he hit me with a pillow repeatedly, threw a pint of water over me, and pushed me into the floor. That's pretty much the worst it's even been, and I'm not excusing him

He grabbed the laptop and threw it against the wall.

I am literally begging you to wake up and see the reality of your situation. Ring al-anon and women's aid. Google information on how common it is for men to hit their partners or escalate existing violence when the first baby arrives. Myself and others have been there and didn't leave when the WRITING WAS ON THE WALL! Don't do what I did and hope things will magically improve. After I left he made my life hell and I genuinely feared for my life. He has been arrested and charged with assualting his children. Once they became teenagers there weren't so cute and compliant and his true colours shone through. Please don't do this to yourself. So he got angry and embarrassed when you involved his family - not apologetic and on the phone to AA.

Get the hell away from him and see a solicitor to get a barring order. I absolutely promise that if you don't take a stance now you will a battered wife with a child in her arms. Things won't get better, they will get significantly worse. Please listen to me.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 12:44:09

Please ring WA and get some real support as well. You're surrounded by people that are minimising his behaviour. Alcoholism and domestic abuse are serious issues that people often look away from and deny when they see it in their own family or friends.

Your dad's reaction is dreadful, but then you didn't tell him everything did you? I suspect there are quite a few incidents (like the laptop one you just mentioned) that you haven't brought up yet, because you don't want to look it clearly head on.

If you think it won't continue after you have the baby, you are wrong. And if you then think "oh he loves the baby, he'd never hurt the baby," then you are wrong again. My STBXH "loves" his DCs, but that didn't stop him from smacking our then 3yo so hard he left a bright red handprint on him. It doesn't seem to stop him from shouting at them every time he sees them or swearing at them. But he loves them, of course, and he'd never hurt them. hmm

And regardless that medically, he shouldn't be drinking, it hasn't stopped that either. He swears "no more alcohol" or "only on the weekends" but gradually it falls by the wayside after a week. Good day? Have a drink. Bad day? Have a drink. And once he starts, he has no self control whatsoever. Unless he runs out of money or alcohol, in which case he doesn't have a choice.

I do not understand your dad's attitude at all. If my daughter came to me about this, I'd support her 100% in leaving him.

Vida Sun 09-Feb-14 12:44:32

Sorry for you OP.

The people you're surrounded by seem to have strange ideas about what an acceptable amount of alcohol is. Really.

A pint, depending on type of beer is between 2-3 units. So 30 pints is 60-90 units. That is 6-9 bottles of wine a night. Even the biggest, most hardened male drinkers I know would pass out long before reaching bottle 6 of wine. What a tolerance he must have built up.

And I would say some bigger drinkers might have 2-3 pints per hour for the first hour or two. But maintaining that pace for 12 hours is about the maddest thing I've ever heard.

Just physically being able to drink that much means he has a massive problem.

To those who are saying "He cannot change" - you are wrong. AA is full of alcoholics who have changed.

BUT, and it is a big but, it is bloody hard to change, and for him to have any chance of giving up drinking, he really, really needs to want to give up. He needs to put himself into some sort of rehab programme, either residential, or something like AA, and he needs to take it one day at a time.

And he needs to accept that he can never touch another drop.

My dh had an alcohol problem - he could go ages without a drink (when he was on call for work and had to stay sober), and was a lovely person and goo husband, father, colleague etc when sober. But when he drank, he couldn't stop. A bottle of wine, once opened, had to be emptied. A bottle of whisky would call out irresistibly to him. And he would drink in secret.

One night, he hit rock bottom. He reached out to me for help, and was genuinely distraught about the depths he had reached. I drove him to his first AA meeting less than 12 hours later, and he hasn't drunk another drop since. That is over 8 years ago. And as he has just said, life is so much better now.

It was really hard for him, but he did change.

Was your DH violent SD?

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 12:53:32

SDTG I think a lot are referring to the abuse. He is not abusive because he drinks, he is abusive because he is abusive. The drinking may facilitate it or bring it out more, but the underlying problem will always be there.

And he will NOT change regarding the alcohol unless he gets professional help of some sort. (medical, AA, something!)

Either way, the OP needs to part ways with him and let him sort out his life on his own, where she and her baby are safe.

If you mean me, no he wasn't, but he wasn't a nice drunk either.

I agree with those who have said that the OP's dh needs to get out for the moment, and I would say he shouldn't be coming back until he's accepted he has a problem and is doing something about it (ie. AA and quitting for good).

He certainly shouldn't be around her either now or when she has the baby, if there's a risk of him being violent. That is. It what I was saying at all.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 12:54:52

Of course people can change but it has to be because they want to and this guy clearly doesn't.

Ahoy your dad's attitude stinks.

Please go to your sister's sad

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 12:55:27

and SDTG your DH sounds great.

It doesn't look,like he does, Rooners.

whitesugar Sun 09-Feb-14 12:55:38

SDTG you are right, thanks for reminding us that people do change and it amazing that your DH did. The OP doesnt have 8 years to wait and I just sincerely hope that she leaves him for her and her child's safety. If that scares him into changing well and good. He won't change for her he will have to do it for himself. That is why all the 'understanding' on her behalf will be absolutely worthless.

tobiasfunke Sun 09-Feb-14 12:55:53

Your poor thing. The first thing you need to do is stop covering for your DH. You said your Dad doesn't see him when he's at his worst so you have to tell him. Tell him about the violence and the computer flinging and the 30 pints. He has to have all the facts if you are to have people around you to help you. If he has only ever seen him just normal drunk then he probably does think you are being hysterical and over reacting. Don't be a martyr about it it won't help you in the long run.
I think the amount of alcohol is a bit irrelevent really - if you are a nasty drunk after 2 shandies then that's 2 shandies too many for you.

He is great, Rooners.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 13:00:25

DH is back already. Downstairs chatting with Dad. I could copy and paste the text messages in getting, but I'm sure you can imagine. I'm being emotional, he's my husband not my boyfriend and I can't kick him out his own home, he's not going anywhere etc etc.

Text my sister casually to see what she's up to- she is driving home from a weekend away 200 miles away, and has lots of work to get through this evening. She has a crazy busy high profile stressful job, it's not worth bothering her today. But I'm sticking to my guns, even if everyone else thinks I'm being mental, I'm having my space. Will book a room at the local travel lodge tonight. A bath, space, and books on my kindle sounds like absolute bliss.

Yes, no-one knows about the times he's been aggressive. It's humiliating, degrading and embarrassing to have to talk about. And maybe if I told my Dad the things I've told you all, he might be more supportive. But I don't need to tell him those things to know I'm doing the right thing. Even if everyone else thinks I'm overreacting because I haven't told them the full story, well that's fine. Saying it here helps me realise I'm not overreacting.

I actually hate him a bit right now. He will stay in MY home and MY dad and let me leave. He's selfish and ignorant and I hate him. I don't want to be divorced after less than a year of marriage. I don't want to be a single parent. But I don't want THIS life I've got either.

Please tell your sister Ahoy. Tell her everything. She'll support you sad

You need to get away from them both hmm
His phrasing is interesting "husband not boyfriend", no?
This prick knows exactly what he is doing. He does not love you at all.

Fluffycloudland77 Sun 09-Feb-14 13:06:06

Tell everyone about the abuse. You've done nothing wrong.

He's minimising, and he will hold this weekend against you.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 13:06:33

Your dad is selling you out to this prick shock

I am so glad you have a good head on your shoulders. I hope you can access the RL backup you need to get yourself out of this situation.

There's no law that means you have to share a home with this jerk, so at least that's something to work towards - ring the council tomorrow and ask if you can get on their housing list right now.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 13:07:24

I can't believe he's in your dads house refusing to go?! So what if you're married- you're not chained to him (clearly, seeing as he can go on 12 hour drinking binges).

The travel lodge sounds great. X

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 09-Feb-14 13:07:29

Any woman who thinks a baby will be enough to change an abusive man needs to ask themselves why they don't think they are enough on their own.

OP you should be able to tell your dad your marriage is over and you want his support in getting your DH out of the home that isn't his and your dad's only response should be whatever you want me to do DD. You shouldn't have to justify your choice.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 13:12:07

Good idea. Go to the travel lodge and relax.

But I do think you need to tell them everything. Yes, it feels humiliating and embarrassing to talk about. The biggest mistake I made was not telling his family about it. He's got them mostly convinced that I'm being unreasonable, and he's pretty much convinced himself at this point that he has done nothing wrong and he's the victim because I told him it was over.

And he's banking on you not telling anyone. He was horrified that I told anyone - because in his opinion I'm overreacting. (sound familiar?)

He apologised over and over. (He'll do this for awhile, but then it'll reach a point where he doesn't even bother to apologise as he figures it's his right to behave this way - he'll find excuses. I was drunk, I was tired, I wasn't feeling well, the kids were acting up, it was a day ending in Y....)

He promised he'd do whatever I asked in order to fix it or make it up to me. Except of course the one thing I asked him to do. Stop doing it. He'd say he would, but he never did. And the excuses started again.

Don't let them convince you that you are overreacting. You are not. They are UNDER reacting. They are MINIMISING. They are WRONG.

Ring Womens Aid and talk to them.

waterlego Sun 09-Feb-14 13:14:06

It sounds like you're getting quite angry OP, and that makes me smile. You have every right to be angry with this entitled wanker. Clearly, he is not expecting you to stick to your plans, but he'll soon realise you're serious. I hope you have a nice, relaxing evening at the hotel and can take that time and space to work out your next move.

petalsandstars Sun 09-Feb-14 13:15:19

Please tell your sister. Let her make the decision.

No matter what was going on if you were my sister I would drop it like a shot to help you if remotely possible.

Lovely people don't get so drunk they become abusive OP. Every time he chooses to drink 30 pints he is accepting that he will treat you like shit and not caring.

Getting away from him is a great start, now promise yourself you won't take him back without him showing that he's committed to changing for good, and not just saying it.

We're all behind you OP thanks

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 13:16:30

Again, OP, I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. The problem with having hundreds of Mumsnetters all telling you the same thing is that it inevitably at some point starts to read like badgering! but I don't think there's one woman telling you to hang on in there, my husband used to do this, and now it's all fine... unless I missed one (or unless the DH in question stopped drinking).

All I can tell you is this: if you take steps now to make sure that active alcoholism is not something you tolerate in your life, then the most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead of you, not behind you.

By the way, SDTG, not competing here, just adding to the positive message: I will complete 29 years of 100% continuous sobriety this year entirely courtesy of AA. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop me from doing completely fatheaded things that cause me endless mortification, but that's just because I'm a complete idiot sometimes, not because I'm drunk. Here's a brew and a cake to sober idiocy.

Stockhausen Sun 09-Feb-14 13:21:00

I too am the child of an alcoholic, and a stepmum who enabled & suffered alongside.

I haven't spoken to my father for almost 10 years, I'm angry that so much of my childhood was tainted.

Look after yourself OP thanks

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 13:22:31

Shows how much of a shit he couldn't give about your feelings that he's back already. It's all about him and his perceived 'right' to stay in your father's home against your express wishes. I'm not surprised you're angry! Enjoy the Travelodge and good luck with your next steps.

waterlego Sun 09-Feb-14 13:26:17

Dolores, I congratulate you on your sobriety- what a magnificent achievement.

SDTG, you must be very proud of your husband. I'm so pleased he has made this positive change for you both.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 13:26:28

He certainly won't change his behaviour while your dad is enabling him.

I am sorry you find yourself amid such a shower of fuckwits x

Ahoy - you need to tell your dad the unvarnished truth - all the things you have told us here. If he knows the whole truth, hopefully your dad will stand by you and throw your dh out.

Getting thrown out by you and your dad might be the kick up the backside he needs to get sober and stay sober. If he can stay at your home, being backed up by your dad in his view of you as unreasonable, he will have no reason the change.

Tell people the truth about him. It is the best thing to do - for you, so that you get the support and understanding you deserve, and for him, to give him that kick up the backside.

And huge congratulations, Dolores - you have done amazingly.

Thank you too to those who have said such nice things about dh. I told him what you were saying, and he said, "I know"!! grin. He was doing the ironing at the time, so I reckon he's allowed!

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sun 09-Feb-14 13:40:59

Ok, up thread, you told me it was not that black and white. Yes it is. It really is. If you stay with this man, both your and your unborn child's lives will be ruined. The constant nervousness, how will he be when he gets in? You won't want him alone with the baby, you won't have enough money as he'll have pissed it all away - blah, blah, blah. You have a choice now. Before the baby is born. Get the hell out of there. Your dad is doing you no favours by minimising this - but this is a sweet vulnerable little baby we are talking about. A baby that could very well end up dead due to the actions of its alcoholic father - all he'd have to do would be slip and fall, pick him or her up a bit too roughly when drunk, leave the gas on or whatever. Normal people don't do those things and put their families at risk. Please leave OP - and I say that as the child of a high functioning alcoholic who wasn't violent. I still wish it hasn't taken my mum 27 years to leave my dad. Do you want your child growing up thinking the same?

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 13:41:43

Can't believe YOU are the one going to a travel lodge....I hope he is fucking ashamed of himself.

Awful hmm

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 13:43:21

Told my sister via text, she said she would be here in a few hours and of course I could stay with her.

I don't drive, and it's stupidly left me so dependant on others. We always had the money for new outfits and nights out, but co-incidentally never the money for my driving lessons. The cynic in me who has seen abuse threads on MN before thinks that maybe DH didn't want me to have that extra independence, and he liked that he had to pick me up from work every day etc. I don't think DH thinks that conciously mind, but I do think it a bit.

I went downstairs to our room - DH was peacefully sleeping off his hangover. I woke him up, and told him how selfish he is. That because he wouldn't leave, I was going to stay with DSis which would mean a 90min commute to work each way tomorrow. I said to dad "PLEASE tell him to leave" and DH said "ok ok I'm going". I didn't see what he left with, but I doubt he got all his work stuff together so quickly, so no doubt he'll try and come back. Dad just patted me on the shoulder awkwardly while it was happening.

If DH stays away, I won't go to my Dsis's. If he comes back, I know she'd come and get me if I asked. DH said I'm taking this too far. He is definitely mad I've told people.

I can't tell anyone about his aggression yet. Because IF things are different this time, and IF he changes, they don't need to know.

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 13:45:08

And I agree you need a break from the lot of them....hopefully he will do the honourable thing and leave you alone to give you head space.

Dreadful you are having to deal with this....
You are Pregnant for goodness sake about time your Dh and family realised this

Nemesissies Sun 09-Feb-14 13:51:35

You are doing so well.

Don't ever think he's not abusive, by the way. He is. Physically, emotionally, financially.

You will find life so much easier without him, I absolutely promise you.

tobiasfunke Sun 09-Feb-14 13:54:37

I feel for you - it is embarrassing telling people about your private affairs but they need all the facts. Tell your sister and she can tell your Dad if you feel you can't.
The problem with aggressive drunks (or indeed all drunks) is that they often don't have any recollection of what they've done as they are totally pissed. Therefore they are convinced of their innocence and your over reaction and are convincing to other people.

tobiasfunke Sun 09-Feb-14 13:56:21

Just seen your update- good on you OP. I wish you and your baby all the luck in the world.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 13:56:31

He won't change if he doesn't recognise why he has to change. He won't recognise the need to change whilst he is surrounded by people - including your own father - who tell him he is being reasonable. These people won't stop enabling him unless they realise the extent of his behaviour.

You shouldn't be the person who feels ashamed of his aggression. He is the only one who should feel shame, embarrassment and guilt at the way he has treated you.

Can you write a letter (or even email) to your dad, sister and maybe some of his family listing the various things he has done and reasons you need him out of the house, if you can't bring yourself to say them out loud? They (especially your own family) really need to know about this so they can support you, I am sure your dad in particular would be more supportive if he knew the full story.

At the moment, it sounds like your dad is also minimising things, perhaps out of a little selfishness - it sounds as though he really gets on with your H and finds him "fun", so does not want to give that up by kicking him out (do they chat a lot etc?). But it won't help you (or your H in the long run, either) if he's allowed to keep his rose-tinted view of things.

The other thing that really really needs addressing is the drunk driving. You know he is doing this, and as long as he keeps doing it there's a very good chance of him hurting/killing someone (or himself). You KNOW just telling him not to is like asking the tide to stop coming in; and I'm sure you would feel terrible if he did cause an accident. So please do consider calling the police, or alternatively remove his access to the car if there's a way to do that (whose is it?). PLEASE don't just turn a blind eye...

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 14:01:29

OP I noticed something you said about not wanting to be divorced after being married less than a year.

How similar your story is to mine is odd. Anyway I want to tell you something. I married my ex while I was pregnant and his behaviour at its worst. I did it because we had set the date before I pregnant and I was terrified of being on my own and I admit, a little part of me hoped he would change, he didn't.

I left after a total of 6 months marriage under my belt and a new born. I was embarrassed and worried what people would think but everyone was supportive. Nobody made me feel like a failure.

Single parenthood was a doddle in comparison to dealing with my ex. If it comes down to it you can do it. You may not have the support of your dad right now but ifhe knew eveeverything his opinion may be different. You have your Sis and I'm sure others who will support you. Don't ever feel trapped because you are embarrassed. If anyone looks down on your for it, they aren't worth it anyway.

Emz8369 Sun 09-Feb-14 14:04:54

sleeping off his hangover? so after he told you he swore down on the babies life that he wouldn't drink again while you are pregnant he went and got pissed again?

BridgetJonesPants25 Sun 09-Feb-14 14:06:41

Sorry typos, phone has a mind of its own

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 14:22:07

Op just read the post about him throwing your lap top.

My ex was wonderful when not drunk....a professional....handsome....wonderfulguy.
He never admitted he had a problem because he didnt drink everyday. Every weekend turned into a waste. Watching him 'sleep it off' ugghhhh I can see it now....what a turn off.

We lived together and he slowly became a little more controlling. 'Smashing lap top' if I wasn't listening. Yes he was drunk and did that.

Within a few weeks it was my jaw he 'accidentally' smashed. As I asked him to leave and he didn't like that at all.

At the time I was a career girl travelling all over the world....attractive....educated....

Things like this didn't happen in real life did they?

I found out the hard way. The signs were subtle at first and I don't want to worry you.... but would emplore you to take complete control of this situation....whilst you still can

Please be kind to yourself love, stress not good for you or that previous baby x

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 14:24:37

'Precious baby' ....sorry fingers to fat for phone

Whereisegg Sun 09-Feb-14 14:32:30

You are doing really well op.

Wuxiapian Sun 09-Feb-14 14:36:48

He doesn't strike me as father or even partner material.

Isetan Sun 09-Feb-14 15:25:47

The fact that you knowingly got pregnant with a man that drinks to this excess, says a lot about your upbringing and current environment. By getting pregnant you have increased the odds, not reduced them, of becoming another domestic violence statistic. Babies are emotionally demanding, financially draining and are a real test of relationships.

You are a lone voice, your H and everybody around him acts like its not a big deal. He won't stop drinking until he's ready, and your unborn child was never going to be an incentive to stop.

This isn't about you anymore, it's about your child and not having their childhood blighted by a drunk and aggressive father and their enabling mother.

People don't grow out of addictions they have to acknowledge them and work bloody hard at recovery.

Contact Al Anon.

hollyisalovelyname Sun 09-Feb-14 15:27:13

Ahoy You are braver than I thought you would be. Could you show your dad this thread. My dh would swing for any son in law that did that to his daughters. And my dh is no angel.
Is your Mum around?
Your dsis sounds lovely and will support you.
If you don't tell your dfather and inlaws what has made you throw dh out then they can't know. They are not mindreaders. You must tell them of the abuse. If they don't care then you don't need them in your life as they don't care for you.

Lweji Sun 09-Feb-14 15:30:57

I can't tell anyone about his aggression yet. Because IF things are different this time, and IF he changes, they don't need to know.

What things do you think will be different and how are you hoping he'll change?
I don't think he will, and if he does change it is better if people know because then he knows you will tell of anything he does. Keeping things a secret is giving power to abusers.

Not telling people is also an excuse for you to go back. If you tell people you will get more support.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 15:47:02

What do I hope will be different and how am I hoping he will change? Honestly, I'm hoping this will be the wake up call he needs. That he'll realise it for real this time, and stop going out with 'the lads' as much. That he will WANT to stay in with me and our baby- because when he is sober and he talks about our future, he wants that all so much. And I don't think I'm being gullible and naive, he really does want that life. He'd love to be a doting dad with his baby on a sling in his front- he's wanted to be a dad for so so long. He sings to my bump, he chats to it, he can't wait to meet our baby.

I'd hope that occasionally we could go out drinking together and laugh and have a great time and he would be that funny perfect guy that everyone loves, and we would come home together with our kebabs (gross I know!) laughing about stuff. And maybe once a year he'd go on a stag weekend or a boys weekend away, and it wouldn't bother me, because then I would trust that he could drink a reasonable amount.

That's what I really want. And I'm hoping a trial separation gives me all that and I won't have to do anything more.

But would I leave if he didn't change? I would. I honestly would. This is his last and final chance, and I won't take him back until I believe his words. There is an al-anon meeting being held near me Thursday evening. I'll go to it.

And I won't be the person posting this again in 5 years time. I can't emphasise enough how this baby is my number 1 priority, and I won't expose my child to the drunk DH I saw last night.

"I can't emphasise enough how this baby is my number 1 priority, and I won't expose my child to the drunk DH I saw last night".

And that thought needs to remain in your head because your man will let you down again. I would be making any trial separation a permanent one.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 15:49:21

You're going to AA (which I think is a good idea - information is power and all that). What's he doing?

He has not got the ability to drink a reasonable amount; that is just not within him.

As he is an alcoholic he should not be drinking at all, even social drinking is now out.

All he is doing is calling the OP names for daring to stand up for herself.
He is surrounded by enablers who will reinforce his denial.
He is not going to do one thing in order to address his violent, alcoholic behaviours.
Because he doesn't have a problem, it's your hormones remember?
And as he has graciously put a ring on your finger he feels perfectly entitled to do as he pleases.

AchingBad Sun 09-Feb-14 16:00:08

Can you PLEASE stop rhapsodising about this man? We get it. We get that you love him and see him as otherwise 'perfect' and that his family and friends think so too. Get it out of your head that this man is ever going to be able to accompany you on drinking jollies which do not lead to him being outrageously pissed. HE HAS CROSSED THAT LINE. Thirty pints is what this man enjoys, not three pints and a kebab with the missus. This monster (the booze) is way bigger than any of you and you are not seeing him for what he is now: an abusive, selfish addict. You refuse to see it and are still lionising the man he is when sober. Mr Wonderful died when he belted you with a pillow, chucked water all over you, threw you to the floor and continued to put his love of drink before you and the baby.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 16:01:09

I don't know what he is doing or what he plans to do. Iv not spoken to him properly yet. He still seemed drunk/hungover a bit this morning, more like he was a bit bewildered at me kicking up such a fuss. He looked faintly amused at one point angry

I know how difficult I'd find it to leave him- he has the ability to be everything I ever wanted. He is my best friend. He makes me laugh so hard and smile so offen. But honestly, it crossed my mind before that if I needed to leave him, I could cheat on him and he would leave me for sure. That's awful isn't it? That I've thought about how to make him leave me.

Don't really get on with my Mum, no. She's certainly not the sort of person I'd ever go to with a problem.

I know LTB is what anyone reading this thread would say. But our lives are so much more than one thread. My wonderful sister (and she is wonderful. Probably the smartest most indepdant take-no-shit person I've ever met) just text me to say "You both love each other enough so you'll find a way to solve this. Hopefully a bit of time to think will help him understand how important this issue is to you", and I guess I'm only saying that to you all so you don't think I'm a total fool when I (eventually) give him another chance. Someone who knows and loves me thinks my relationship isn't worth throwing away yet.

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 16:01:17

He. Will. Not. Change.

Really, he won't.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 16:03:17

Oh jeez, sorry crossed post with the "rhapsodising" one above. Hadn't realised I was doing it so much, although can see I just did it. I guess I wanted people to know that if my life was just this thread, I'd leave today. But it's not, IYSWIM.

Does sis know about the violence?

You need to tell her about the pillow/laptop/water etc. she is not going to be able to fully understand and support you if you don't.

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 16:07:25

What Aching said plus

He drinks and drives ....did it only this morning. Kind of selfish twunt that would kill someone else's loved ones/children....

Pure Vile

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 16:08:32

How will he go from 30 pints to the kind of normal social drinking you describe? I would suspect he will give it up for a while - maybe even indeed until the baby is born. You will believe his words. He'll go out on a reasonable pretext - maybe even to celebrate the baby's birth. He will make lots of promises to you and you will believe them. But he has a compulsion - an irresistible compulsion - to drink the way he used to. The people around him will encourage this.

The outcome? The shock of such an insane binge (30 pints!) might kill him outright, leaving your baby fatherless. He might have a stupid drunken accident that leads to the same outcome. He might come home and when you display your anger and frustration at the state he is in, he might swing for you. He might clumsily attempt to cuddle the baby, breathing beer fumes all over it , and drop it.

Or maybe this time he will come home in a decent state after you've bitten your nails ragged with worry all evening. And you will just wait til the next time.

That's the outcome if he doesn't seek treatment. A trial separation may give you a temporary solution. But a man who drinks to that extent, who drives drunk and who attacks his wife will not be fixed by a week apart 'facing the consequences'. There are no real consequences for him. He doesn't take your words seriously. He doesn't value your opinions. He sees no problem with his behaviour. He simply knows you don't like it so he will appease you for a while.

He needs professional help. I hope al-anon helps you, but he needs to seek help as well.

Of course your life isn't just this thread! But that doesn't for one moment mean that you should put up with this. This is abuse. Yep, it may be happening on the most wonderful, lovey dovey background where it's all hearts and flowers. But that doesn't detract from the fact that he is abusive.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 16:12:13

Oh sorry, the other alternative I didn't mention - he will kill an innocent person whilst drunk-driving (you admit he was drunk this morning and he got behind the wheel). Maybe another woman's little child like the one you are carrying, maybe someone's decent and caring husband. And he'll go to prison. That's a fairly likely outcome as well.

JackieBrambles Sun 09-Feb-14 16:15:07

This thread has me worried sick. Am terrified for you and your baby.

Your sisters text means nothing because she doesn't know what he's done.

You have to tell her, he's a monster.

The water/pillow thing is utterly chilling.

Glad you are going to Al anon. But please properly confide in your sis, she will support you.

know LTB is what anyone reading this thread would say. But our lives are so much more than one thread. My wonderful sister (and she is wonderful. Probably the smartest most indepdant take-no-shit person I've ever met) just text me to say "You both love each other enough so you'll find a way to solve this. Hopefully a bit of time to think will help him understand how important this issue is to you", and I guess I'm only saying that to you all so you don't think I'm a total fool when I (eventually) give him another chance. Someone who knows and loves me thinks my relationship isn't worth throwing away yet.

Sorry but you are surrounded by enablers and fools. Your sister is in no way smart at all. Too many seemingly confident women on the surface have low self worth and would thus put up with any old rubbish their man throws at them. How much more of your time and effort are you prepared to waste on this person?. He has not changed at all to date and why should he now?. Your sister too is also not having to deal with the realities of him day to day unlike yourself. She clearly has no idea at all (as have you to date) what alcoholism is all about. Alcoholism is truly a family disease.

What on earth did you learn about relationships when growing up?. Your Dad from what I have read of him on here is a real mess and your mother is not the sort of person you would go to with a problem. The problem you have here is that no-one is looking out for you and no-one ever really has either. You've been on your own and you still are really; it was almost inevitable as a result that you would end up with a man whose primary relationship in life is with drink. No-one has cared for you at all and you probably went with the first man who showed you any interest whatsoever because life at home was so awfully bad.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 16:22:23

OP, I don't know what he is doing or what he plans to do. Iv not spoken to him properly yet. He still seemed drunk/hungover a bit this morning, more like he was a bit bewildered at me kicking up such a fuss. He looked faintly amused at one point

So he's going to do nothing sad There are no consequences for his behaviour. There is no motivation to change.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 16:23:31

OP you've described a lovely fantasy with a man who behaves in all those nice ways and your life together would indeed be great.

It's just, the man you've described isn't your H. It's his potential - fair enough - and maybe he 'could be' everything you want in a man.

The problem is he's decided he doesn't want to be. I think you should be hurt by that. And realise from it that if he doesn't want to be the 'everything' guy for you now, he isn't likely to suddenly realise how much he loves you in a week or two and start being it then.


You're in love with an idea - dare I say it - not with him. Love has to go both ways. It doesn't sound like he loves you or like you really, actually, love him, not the way he really is.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 16:25:27

Is there ANYone you know - a friend, a colleague - anyone at all who sees this bloke for what he is and can't stand him?

If so then please seek their advice and support. They are pretty much right. They may be willing to help you.

Sounds like your whole family is conditioned to try and perpetuate the union at any cost to your mental and physical wellbeing.

As I said earlier, you're being sold out. What makes them put his desires above your wellbeing? Do they not like you very much?

jellyandcake said, "He doesn't value your opinions. He sees no problem with his behaviour. He simply knows you don't like it so he will appease you for a while."

This really sums it up beautifully. She is quite right that any remorse shown by him is just to appease you - he really doesn't understand. If he did, he would actually stop drinking, and would completely accept that you need him to give you space until he has proven himself genuinely committed to change.

Anything he says is just noise. Tell him you need actions. Solid, long-term actions before you will even consider resuming your relationship.

Notalwaysabowlofcherries Sun 09-Feb-14 16:30:46

I send you the most massive hug. You sure as Hell need one. It really upsets me that you aren't getting the support from people around you that you need. But hopefully you are feeling the love and compassion through this thread. Going to Al-Anon is a brilliant idea; please make sure you DO GO even if he tries to wheedle his way back home. Sadly there is nothing you can do to force him to address this issue. AA is what he needs, but HE has to make that decision and want to face up to his addiction. My father used to beat up my mother (who divorced him when I was 1) and then my stepmother. He only stopped when she - finally - left him (and she stayed FAR too long). He went into treatment and joined AA. Social drinking won't work for him. Really. He may well mean it when he swears on your unborn baby's life, but he will be incapable of sticking to any promises he makes. You MUST do what is right for you and the baby. Really, really hard to have the courage to do this when others around you are being enabling and treating you as if you are 'over-reacting', but you are clearly a bright woman and this thread is full of really wonderful, thoughtful advice. I salute your courage. Please, please stick to your guns. So glad MN is here to provide this sort of support to people like you who are being let down by family.

TheBigBumTheory Sun 09-Feb-14 16:32:49

If you turn off the 'soundtrack' and observe his actions things would seem clearer. Ignore what he says, just look at what he is doing. That is reality, that is what matters.

I don't see any remorse at all.

He ignored your request for space, followed you around telling you how it's all your fault for being hormonal.

Drunk driver, utterly inexcusable.

Sent you texts telling you off for daring to be displeased.

Told you he would leave then came back anyway with the I am your husband routine.

Smirked in the face of all of the above.

Please tell me where this wonderful, prince of a man was in the least bit genuinely sorry?

He is not sorry. He wants you to STFU and assume normal position, i.e. you enabling his alcoholic violent behaviours.

juneau Sun 09-Feb-14 16:38:32

I think you should confide in your sister. Tell her everything. If you don't, you're just protecting him - can't you see that? How can you get sensible advice if you're not being honest about the extent of the problems? Your sister is telling you you'll sort it out because she thinks you're just pissed off with him for going out and getting drunk a few times. If she knew that he'd beaten you with a pillow, thrown water all over you and knocked you on the floor I very much doubt she'd be giving the same advice.

As for your dad, if you don't want to give him the honest, no details spared version, for god's sake say 'Look Dad, there is more to this than I want to tell you right now, so please just believe me when I say we need to have a trial separation'. He's your dad - he'll be on your side - but you need to let him in a bit.

But Ahoy your sister doesn't know your relationship. She doesn't know about the violence, the binges, throwing the laptop etc she only knows the surface which you've allowed her to see.

So your sister may think the relationship is worth saving, but if she knew the truth I bet she wouldn't.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 16:40:50

If you're not ready to tell your family about the aggressive and abusive behaviour, then do yourself a favour. Ring Womens Aid and tell THEM about it. See what they say. Tell them EVERYTHING. And then listen to what they tell you. Really listen.

Notalwaysabowlofcherries Sun 09-Feb-14 16:45:43

Oh, and Ahoy - another thing I wanted to say: I know it must feel awful for you because you feel love for this man and insist he is lovely 'most of the time'. But I promise you, real love isn't like this. I have been in relationships where there was loads of anxiety and intensity and tension and passion and all of that .I used to think that the intensity of it all showed that it was real love. Then I met my DH and learned that love should be about feeling safe and calm and secure. Very different, but I can't tell you how it felt like a light bulb going off. Stick to your guns. You are a brave woman.

FunkyBoldRibena Sun 09-Feb-14 16:47:42

Of course your sister wants you to work it out - she doesn't know the half of it.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 17:02:51

I'll name change after this, and maybe step away from the thread. I was going to show it to DH- to show him all the women who wouldn't put up with it, and who think I should leave, and to show him that just because I'm not there 'yet' doesn't mean I won't be. But I know what he'd say if I showed him this thread- he would say I didn't tell the full story of the pillow incident, and he's right.

This is the worst drip feeding ever, but I'm ashamed. The night of the pillow/water incident, I'd been out drinking with a large group from work, and went back to one guys house. They were doing cocaine. I rubbed some in my gums. First and only time I've ever done it. It was stupid, beyond stupid, and I regret it.

I came home about 3am, and DH was fuming at me already. Questioning where I'd been, took my phone off me, read through my texts, and was in my face about where I'd been and who I'd been with. I told him- that I'd been with a group that included a bloke he disliked (the blokes only crime was fancying me apparently - and I'm positive he doesn't fancy me, it's just in DHs head), and I told him I tried cocaine.

That's why he went so mental at me. I'm no angel.

My life is sounding so Jeremy Kyle, and like I feed off drama, so I might take a step back for a bit. I will go to Al-Anon on Thursday, and decide things from there.

Thanks all for the posts. I promise I've taken it in and I'll come back to this thread and re-read things and remind myself of things.

Bunbaker Sun 09-Feb-14 17:06:28

I think you need to be really honest with your dad as well. Don't be ashamed. How do you think your dad would feel if he couldn't protect his daughter from this awful man, just because you felt you couldn't tell him?

So you had coke on a night out.

Still doesn't give him the right to abuse you. Even if you were swinging from the chandelier shagging the bloke. There is no excuse.

Do not ever show him this thread.

xmastime2013 Sun 09-Feb-14 17:07:29

Delurking to say that you are not to blame for his violence against you regardless of taking cocaine and having an ill advised night out! He should not have been "in your face" and reading your texts. It is NOT OK what he has done/is doing and I agree with others you really ought to be more honest with your family and close friends (maybe not your dad...) as they will be apologising/enabling your DH without knowing the whole story. Good luck, it sounds like you have made the first step and I hope it's not too long until the other shoe drops.

Vakant Sun 09-Feb-14 17:08:38

He still shouldn't have attacked you, cocaine or no cocaine. It's fine to disapprove or be angry with you or doing that, but it's not okay to attack you regardless of what you have done. You are making excuses for him I'm afraid.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 17:10:11

But honestly, it crossed my mind before that if I needed to leave him, I could cheat on him and he would leave me for sure.

Based on what he did to you just because he thought a bloke fancied you, I think if you cheated on him there is a reasonable chance he would beat you to death.

That's certainly the message he was trying to give you with that horrendous, humiliating assault he carried out.

And rubbing a bit of cocaine on your gums (or even taking lines of cocaine ALL FUCKING NIGHT) would not justify what he did to you.

So he gets to down 30 pints every week but you don't get to choose what poisons to put in your own body? hmm

Also, you keep saying how nice he is when he's sober, but he's still being an utter prick to you today.

The way he dismisses you and talks down to you is awful.

And yes, he has deliberately kept you reliant on him for lifts.

Notalwaysabowlofcherries Sun 09-Feb-14 17:11:02

Which one of us is an angel? And frankly, I don't' think trying cocaine is the crime of the century. So he is allowed to threaten you and be 'in your faces' because you have a late night? I don't think so. Good luck - you will get there in the end and be so glad you did.

Darling it doesn't matter how daft you were, that is still no excuse for what happened sad

You seem to be willing to blame anyone (mainly yourself) for what has happened/ is happening. This is not your fault. You really have to be kinder to yourself, you're not the demon you're making yourself out to be.

Please, please keep posting - you'll get all the support and hand holding you want. Don't be alone xx

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 17:12:28

Do not ever show him this thread.


And also - DO NOT invite your abuser to the only place where you seem to have any support.

Don't mention Mumsnet, don't let him see you online.

This is a space for YOU to get support and you are far better off if he doesn't come here to read the advice you are getting.

I've tried cocaine once too, btw. Did DH use that as an excuse to assault me?
No he did not.

Men have openly fancied me too. Did DH beat me up for talking to them?
No he did not.

Really? He gets to down 30 pints of lager on a regular basis, and you're supposed to meekly accept it. But if you dare to have one night out and dabble very lightly with cocaine then he's perfectly justified in going completely ballistic? And he gets to be jealous of who you go out with? Your friends and what you do on your nights out are your business and yours alone.

Talk about double standards.

My DH occasionally disapproves of things I do, but all he does about it is make sad faces at me for a couple of minutes, because he recognises that I'm an adult who gets to make my own choices, and he has no rights over my behaviour.

What you've just posted doesn't make him sound even remotely justified for behaving how he did, it just paints him even more clearly as a controlling abuser with no respect for you.

Nemesissies Sun 09-Feb-14 17:18:34

You did nothing wrong.

He is a violent bully.

expatinscotland Sun 09-Feb-14 17:21:31

Anyone who can down 30 pints and not die ( even that darts player who weighed about 30st could manage only 25 before his liver packed in from weight and drink and he had to stop) has a SERIOUS addiction problem.

JackieBrambles Sun 09-Feb-14 17:25:57

I don't give a shiny shite whether you took a combo of coke, pills and heroin.

He had no right to do what he did and the fact that he did makes him utterly dangerous to you and your baby.

I have a baby and the thought of him being in the same space as a man like your DH makes me feel Ill. You need to protect your baby, and yourself from him.

Don't show him this thread, this is a safe space for you.

DollyTwat Sun 09-Feb-14 17:30:45

My ex is an alcoholic op. Recovering one

I'd say your h is viewing this as you overreacting to him going out and getting a bit smashed. He doesn't think there's an actual problem here and that you'll be cross for a few days, he'll promise not to do it again and life will carry on. He expected a row with you - that's the part you are supposed to play, he just didn't expect this big a reaction

I can tell you life with an alcoholic and a baby us awful. Because you're stuck. They can go out all the time. When you're tired they can't/won't help. They spend all day Sunday recovering.

I'm glad you're being strong. When you do talk to him in a few days, try not to be 'the one who's forgiving him' as then you are then playing the part of the angry wife. If you can talk to him and explain you are not prepared to live like this, that until he can sort out his alcohol problems, you won't consider him coming back

Pagwatch Sun 09-Feb-14 17:31:29

Do you know, if you are starting fom the point that being out with a man he doesn't like and taking cocaine makes his reaction reasonable, then you are lost.

You don't love him. You love the man he is when he isn't pissed and treating you with utter contempt. But the drunk bully actually is who he is. You just want to ignore that.

From WA website.

What is domestic violence?

Although every situation is unique, there are common factors that link the experience of an abusive relationship. Acknowledging these factors is an important step in preventing and stopping the abuse. This list can help you to recognise if you, or someone you know, are in an abusive relationship.

Destructive criticism and verbal abuse: shouting; mocking; accusing; name calling; verbally threatening.

Pressure tactics: sulking; threatening to withhold money, disconnecting the telephone, taking the car away, taking the children away, or reporting you to welfare agencies unless you comply with his demands;
threatening or attempting suicide; withholding or pressuring you to use drugs or other substances; lying to your friends and family about you; telling you that you have no choice in any decisions.

Disrespect: persistently putting you down in front of other people; not listening or responding when you talk; interrupting your telephone calls; taking money from your purse without asking; refusing to help with childcare or housework.

Breaking trust: lying to you; withholding information from you; being jealous; having other relationships; breaking promises and shared agreements.

Isolation: monitoring or blocking your telephone calls; telling you where you can and cannot go; preventing you from seeing friends and relatives; shutting you in the house.

Harassment: following you; checking up on you; not allowing you any privacy (for example, opening your mail), repeatedly checking to see who has telephoned you; embarrassing you in public; accompanying you everywhere you go.

Threats: making angry gestures; using physical size to intimidate; shouting you down; destroying your possessions; breaking things; punching walls; wielding a knife or a gun; threatening to kill or harm you and the children; threatening to kill or harm family pets; threats of suicide.

Sexual violence: using force, threats or intimidation to make you perform sexual acts; having sex with you when you don't want it; forcing you to look at pornographic material; forcing you to have sex with other people; any degrading treatment related to your sexuality or to whether you are lesbian, bisexual or heterosexual.

Physical violence: punching; slapping; hitting; biting; pinching; kicking; pulling hair out; pushing; shoving; burning; strangling.

Denial: saying the abuse doesn't happen; saying you caused the abusive behaviour; being publicly gentle and patient; crying and begging for forgiveness; saying it will never happen again.

Who is responsible for the violence?

The abuser is always responsible for the violence, and should be held accountable. There is no excuse for domestic violence and the victim is never responsible for the abuser's behaviour.

'Blaming the victim' is something that abusers will often do to make excuses for their behaviour, and quite often they manage to convince their victims that the abuse is indeed their fault. This is part of the pattern and is in itself abusive. Blaming their behaviour on someone else, or on the relationship, their childhood, their ill health, or their alcohol or drug addiction is one way in which many abusers try to avoid personal responsibility for their behaviour.

It is important that any intervention to address domestic violence prioritises the safety of victims/survivors and holds the perpetrators accountable.


Department of Health (2002) 'Women's Mental health: Into the Mainstream: Strategic development of mental health care for women' (London: DH)
Farmer, E. and Pollack, S. (1998) 'Substitute care for sexually abused and abusing children' (Chichester: Wiley)
Walby, Sylvia and Allen, Jonathan (2004) 'Domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking: Findings from the British Crime Survey' (London: Home Office Research, Development and Statistics Directorate)

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mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 17:34:41

Finding this thread depressing.

Of course your sister text you that- she doesn't know he poured water on your head and beat you with a pillow (I cringe at that- really degrading). I don't care that you'd been with a group of guys and tried coke- wtf did he think he was doing?!

Sorry to be tough but really...stop going on about what a great guy he is. Doesn't matter- it's all negated by the shit behaviour.

Wait til you've got a screaming 3 month old and he's out on a bender. When you haven't even had time to eat much more than a sandwich all day, not had time for a shower and he falls in bladders through the door at 4am.... You might not think him so lovely then.

Bunbaker Sun 09-Feb-14 17:43:37

Or your baby needs to see a doctor urgently and he is too drunk to drive.

oldgrandmama Sun 09-Feb-14 17:44:00

Dear OP, I am an old woman, in my seventies. So I've seen an awful lot - hopeless drunks, violent abusers, emotional abusers, con-men who've bled their wives out of every penny, workshy scum who've felt entitled to let their wives work like slaves to keep them, shameless adulterers, including one who visited his wife in hospital, as she lay there with her one day old new baby, and told her he was off with another woman.

But I felt an especial despair as I read your thread. I fear for you and your unborn child. As others have pointed out, your husband is surrounded by enablers, and I include your father in this category. I've met men like him (I was married to one) - he sides with the drunken sot that's your husband because it's 'all boys together' in the face of 'a silly little woman'. Frankly, your father is an utter disgrace too. You're his DAUGHTER and he should love you and put you above all others - which means slinging out that ghastly drunk.

I get all the hearts and flowers stuff you're extolling - you're newly married (WHY the hell did you marry a drunk), the sun shines out of his sorry arse when he's sober, he's fun, sweet, longing to be a dad ... by God, he's got you bewitched and bedazzled.

But make no mistake. Forgive him, stay with him, and you're probably doomed to a life of misery and so is your child. From what you describe of his drinking (THIRTY pints?) I don't think any bookie would even give odds on him not killing himself or someone else while driving/dying of cirrhosis of the liver/being arrested/seriously hurting you or your child/killing, yes KILLING you or your child during some drunken rampage.

Could he change? Possibly but I'd say, given the enablers around, including - sorry - forgiving you, probably not. You are in for a truly horrible future, OP, if you don't act now, before your poor baby is here. I hate to think of you or your child just being another tragic statistic in a year or so.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 09-Feb-14 17:51:38


what would you do if social services took your baby away because its father was a violent drunk? Would all this love you have for him be worth it then? That might sound OTT but it could happen.

You need to make a choice or else let someone else potentially make it for you.

"I'll name change after this, and maybe step away from the thread"

I would implore you to do neither as doing that will not help you. What would that do realistically?. Its further running away to my mind and your problems are all too bloody real and certainly not imagined.

And for the love of God, do not show your H this thread!.

You really learnt an awful lot of damaging stuff when you were growing up didn't you?.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 18:02:20

This is an utterly depressing thing, but I'm going to say it.

A friend of mine, about 20 years ago, when I was in my 20's, married a man that was both a heavy drinker and abusive. While she was pregnant, he pushed her over quite harshly when shouting at her and labour started. When she got to hospital, they managed to stop it. A few weeks later, her husband did it again. That time, they were unable to stop labour, and her baby was born very very premature. (IIRC was about 27+ wks?) Her daughter had numerous disabilities, and spent the next 6 months hooked up to machines, and finally passed away about 6 months later.

Please please remember how very vulnerable you will be while you are pregnant. And how vulnerable that baby will be once it's born.

Nowhere near this man is safe.

Destinysdaughter Sun 09-Feb-14 18:03:21

Really respecting the wise words from oldgranmama

Here is a woman who has seen and lived life. She is giving you very sensible advice as to what is happening and how it is likely your life will turn out. You are very lucky to be able to get such good advice as this. Please heed it. Or you will be a woman in your 70s telling younger women, please don't make the mistakes I did. Don't be that person. Listen to the collective wisdom of total strangers who don't know you and have no agenda other than the wellbeing of you and your baby

Make plans to get the fuck out while you still can!!

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 18:09:10

Hectoring the op to take action,lengthy prose about what's abuse,WA and LTB
none of this will compel her to go if she's not ready.reading her post she's not ready
She'll need to get to her break point.shes not there can't save op,or anyone else.

FunkyBoldRibena Sun 09-Feb-14 18:09:45

Aah OP I see. It was your fault that he starting hitting you and threw you. I thought it would be.

See what he is doing there?

Nothing is his fault. Ever. It's all you.

And it will be your fault that you split up. Not his.

Do you not see a pattern here?

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 18:13:51

Op gets disorientated and bullied by her husband.And she's getting hectored on mn
Some of you need to take a reflective step back.stop being so shrill.stop commanding her
Statistically vulnerable people have many almost go.and give Second/third etc chances

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 18:17:03

It's not unusual for partying couples to experience a bit of a bumpy ride when the pregnancy comes along. It is an adjustment. Your sister probably thinks this is what it is.

What you are experiencing is not adjustment. This is plainly an abusive relationship. He is an abusive alcoholic and until he stops drinking you should not allow him to share a home with you and your precious new baby.

This might have a happy ending but only if you make good well advised choices. If your sister has offered you that advice I'd be wary of her advice.

There have been loads of good balanced advice please keep listening and acting on it. Really pleased your going to Al. Hope you stay focused on your baby.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 18:18:17

I simply want her to remember that when she is 7, 8, 9 months pregnant, she is going to be moving slower and possibly awkwardly and if he gets physical, she will not be able to simply move quickly out of the way. She will be incredibly vulnerable, and whatever physical damage she may sustain may affect the pregnancy as well.

That is a huge bit of information she needs to remember. And he could be very well behaved for 6 months out of the pregnancy, and then be god-awful for 5 minutes - 5 lousy minutes out of the entire pregnancy. And that 5 minutes could be the life-changer.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 18:18:22

ScottishMummy is right. I'm not ready to leave him yet. Not while there is the tiniest chance he might change. If I have a hope in hell at the perfect life with him that I dreamed of, then I'll cling to it.

I know it will end up taking something big for me to leave him. And him getting drunk like that again would be "big" enough. And "oh well he hit me with a pillow a few times and threw water over me" sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud. It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to end an otherwise happy relationship.

I promise I won't ever let him hurt our child. I swear down it will never get that far.

I will go to Al-anon. I will keep a diary of the little things he does that seem controlling/abusive, so when I leave I can look back and remember I gave it 100% and I couldn't have done more. That's not to say I haven't appreciated all the advice, and I have read it all through my tears today, but I need to be 100% totally sure this relationship isn't salvageable so I don't spent a life of "what ifs".

expatinscotland Sun 09-Feb-14 18:21:08

Poor baby.

pictish Sun 09-Feb-14 18:21:35

I agree with scottishmummy.
Stop hectoring the OP.

Good luck OP. MN will be here when that day arrives.

How long though have you already waited for him to change?. Why do you think there is still the tiniest chance he might change?.

I still wonder why you think this relationship is at all a happy one given this comment from you:-

"And "oh well he hit me with a pillow a few times and threw water over me" sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud. It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to end an otherwise happy relationship".

He drinks too much and is not above being violent to you. Your boundaries are pretty much non existent are they not?.

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 18:24:33

I promise I won't ever let him hurt our child.

It may not be in your power to stop it.

And anyway, hurt doesn't have to be physical.

DollyTwat Sun 09-Feb-14 18:26:35

It took me years to kick my ex out OP

I started a diary online, just to record the things that happened, as it's easy to forget.

One day the 'big thing' will happen, or even a small thing that is the final straw, and you'll have the strength to do it. You know it's inevitable already

I stayed with my ex until ds2 was 6 months old, then he was gone. I couldn't allow him to fuck up again

You'll get there, hopefully sooner than I did, for your own happiness

Lovethebubbles Sun 09-Feb-14 18:28:07

Get out of this relationship now. It sounds dangerous and your child doesn't deserve to be in that situation.

Squeegle Sun 09-Feb-14 18:33:43

Dear OP and others
I have been in your position so I do understand very much that hectoring doesn't help. The problem is that if you already feel that you are being pressured (by DP, by family etc), then it really does not feel great to have other people telling you what to do.

It is a place you have to come to with your own experience and so that you are in a place that you can commit yourself to the future because it's what you want/ need to do yourself.

And I think the steps you have taken are in the right direction and good on you.

All I would urge you to do is think to yourself:

What will i accept from this man, and what will I not.

You can't say to him don't drink. But you can say to him, I cannot stay with a man who drinks like this. Then you will be making your own decisions for you and your child. And he can make the same choices.

I could say SOOOOOOO much. You have had lots of good advice on this thread. My ex DP was like yours. Lovely a lot of the time. A complete tosser at others. It took me a long long time to stop excusing him and allow him to be responsible for his actions and for me to be responsible for mine. I really hope it takes you less time. You have options.

Just one more piece of my experience if I may share. When I actually stopped being ashamed and sharing how horrible my Ex was to me, it was a HUUUUUGGGGGEEE relief. It wasn't my secret. I could come out in the real world again. A world where someone who behaves like that is in the wrong. I got such a lot of support when I actually made my mind up and asked for it.

Good luck - and be strong and true to yourself. You know you shouldn't be treated like this.

LIZS Sun 09-Feb-14 18:35:45

I know it will end up taking something big for me to leave him. And him getting drunk like that again would be "big" enough. And "oh well he hit me with a pillow a few times and threw water over me" sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud. It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to end an otherwise happy relationship.

I promise I won't ever let him hurt our child. I swear down it will never get that far.

His behaviour will wear you down, conditioning you , as it already has, so that the lines of acceptable behaviour slip. There is no one you can depend on to give you that barometer. Little by little your perspective will warp until you no longer recognise the red flags , and perhaps not in time to make that decision sad

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 18:38:08

Where your daughter's safety is concerned, I think you should include raising his voice when she's in the house and driving her in the car when he's over the limit.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 18:50:55


there is nothing to stop you from having that perfect marriage you talk about, apart from the fact he doesn't bloody want it.

He's the only one stopping you.

Think about it. Would you behave like he has if you wanted that? No. You wouldn't.

He sounds about 12. He's not ready to be a grown up yet. You're trying to make him, and he's angry about it.

If you walk away now, you're still not preventing yourself having that future you describe. You may even be doing the only thing possible (from your side) to make it more likely.

But I don't think you understand this yet.

haveyourselfashandy Sun 09-Feb-14 18:51:10

Sorry Ahoy,I'm abit late to this thread but wanted to put my opinion forward hope you don't mind.
I could tell from your first few posts that you wasn't going to leave your DH and I understand that.It's hard to see what's going on when your in it!
However,as an outsider reading the bit where he hit you with a pillow and poured water on you made me cringe,pouring water over someone is,in my eyes,similar to spitting on someone.It's done to humiliate the victim and its something I think you need to think about.
Your DH won't change his drinking habits.It's tough now but it will be tougher with a baby.You will stop challenging him because you will be frightened of him turning nasty with the baby there and soon enough it will just become your life.I know that's hard to imagine because he is so lovely when sober but it WILL happen.
I don't know what to suggest though because I completely understand you thinking of all the good things about your relationship and how hard it is emotionally and practically to leave.Just know that you can always come here to talk about things.There will always be someone here to listen and offer advice or just handhold when you want to rant!
Start thinking abit about yourself,keep telling yourself that you will not put up with this behaviour and that its not ok.

Rooners Sun 09-Feb-14 18:52:56

In short, silk purse/pig's ear.

I am sorry. I know you are waiting till you feel that it's not possibly anything you have caused.

It isn't though. It's really not your fault he's such a complete cunt.

You are however implying acceptance of this behaviour if you stay with him. It's a green card to him to keep doing it.

This makes me so sad.

rainbowsmiles Sun 09-Feb-14 18:55:13

Oh no I've just read your explanation re pillow and water and it just makes him sound even worse. That is awful. I really feel for you.

Right, I have no experience to offer but there are loads on here who can.

I really hope things work out for you and your wee baby.

mellicauli Sun 09-Feb-14 19:02:05

It's not just you now. Do you want your child to be born into a household where during 30 pints is acceptable? And it's ok to hit your partner with a pillow and throw water at them? And to shout at others? If you stay you are saying that is fine and you are happy for your child to copy that behaviour I their life too.

I certainly wouldn't want that example for my kids.

CalamityKate Sun 09-Feb-14 19:04:29

I hate threads like this.

Atilla is right. You're surrounded by idiots. Your poor poor baby.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 19:10:15

I'm sorry to be harsh, OP, but assuming that your sister shared your upbringing, and your father is colluding with your DH in making you feel that you have unreasonable expectations of your menfolk and should just get pissed with them, I cannot put any faith in your sister's judgement, smart and independent though she may well be in other areas.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 19:15:42

He hasn't text me since he left. He's not sorry yet, but he's been with his family all day, and whilst I love them dearly, their limits of acceptable drinking are the same as his, because that is what they grew up with, so he won't be sorry yet. He will be indignant at how unfair I'm being. And how melodramatic. There will be lots of "she's pregnant bless her, and stressed. Buy her some flowers and tell her how sorry you are, she'll calm down", I just know it.

And you know that "find your iPhone" tracker app you can have? We both have that on our phones. In theory it's there so if you lose your iPhone, you can find it, but in reality I guess we both use it to 'check' where the other is. Me so I can find out where he is after he doesn't come home from a night out, and him to check I'm really out with the girls etc and not shagging about (and I can promise I've never given him a reason for him to think I would be). That's how low things have got and I'm embarrassed.

He's switched it off now. It's not been off in almost two years. That means he's gone to the pub, I know it. He'll have gone to the pub with his brother and switched it off so I can't ever "prove" he was in the pub.

DollyTwat Sun 09-Feb-14 19:17:27

The thing is that whilst you think there is a chance he will change, you're going to flog that horse til it's well and truly dead.

So, whilst you do that, which I think you will, get some things planned for the inevitable. Save some money, stay at your dads as you'll need somewhere to live that's safe, start to manage on your own.

Logg1e Sun 09-Feb-14 19:20:14

OP He's not sorry yet, but he's been with his family all day, and whilst I love them dearly, their limits of acceptable drinking are the same as his, because that is what they grew up with, so he won't be sorry yet. He will be indignant at how unfair I'm being. And how melodramatic. There will be lots of "she's pregnant bless her, and stressed. Buy her some flowers and tell her how sorry you are, she'll calm down", I just know it.

So long as you keep up the pretence that this is about drink and not abuse, his family will enable him.

And the think about the iPhone tracker? That's not part of a dream relationship.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Sun 09-Feb-14 19:23:35

Your relationship is over. What more do you need? sad

Seems you are being let down by all the men in your life.

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 19:28:59

I iphone tracking.
How awful starting your family life with such dreadful mistrust hmm

scottishmummy Sun 09-Feb-14 19:29:24

This is the reality of your marriage.a ducking diving drunk,you getting het up
You're not ready to leave him yet,as you want it give it a go,see if he'll change
This is it, the what ifs,rows and recrimination,this is your marriage.

take good care of to your me.they've heard most thing

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Sun 09-Feb-14 19:37:01

Right. Now that - the tracker thing - should REALLY tell you everything you need to know.

Your marriage is this, this is your marriage. This is him. Not 'him when drink' - him full stop. It's blown up for the first time and what's happened? He's gone to the pub.

If you do not leave this man you will have a life of misery.

It's much harder to leave when you have children.

'Not letting him hurt them' won't be in your power if you stay with him.

He won't change.

AliceinWinterWonderland Sun 09-Feb-14 19:39:10

I know you attribute a lot of his behaviour to drinking, but keep in mind that he makes the decision to go out drinking when he's sober. Even knowing as he must what happens when he drinks and how it affects you, he still continues to make these kind of decisions when he is sober.

It's not down to drink. That's just an added facet of his bad behaviour.

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Sun 09-Feb-14 19:39:54

He only does two things, anything he wants and anything that is easy. Other than that, forget it!

TippiShagpile Sun 09-Feb-14 19:40:22

And he swore on your baby's life that he wouldn't drink whilst you're pg.

Tells you all you need to know.hmm

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 19:42:15

None of us are angels Op....
The bad side will eventually stain all the good things.
You aren't ready to call it a day, I realise that. The waiting for something 'big' worries me.
The foundations are rocky
The respect seems to have gone

If he's in the pub again tonight it's just really and other 'Middle finger' and 'smirk' in your direction.

Never show him this thread....never share your thoughts on MN with him. This is your sanctuary.

Take care

I've been where you are now, OP, pregnant and married to an abusive drunk. I've even had the same hope that he would change 'for the better', as I had seen the good side of him so I knew he was capable of it, and had begged to be allowed to be 'a good dad'.

I was utterly horrified to realise that all that nice stuff that he was and did was all a pretence, a lie, to soften me up and keep me sweet so I would be willing to put up with the real him - the drunken abusive man.

It's a bait and switch technique, that is guaranteed to keep you in an abusive relationship until you see that he's deliberately tricking you.

I think you understand way deep down what type of man he really is, but doing something about it IS hard, and can take time, support and help.

Keep posting here, where you are getting that support, for as long as you need to.

letitburn Sun 09-Feb-14 19:46:52

The jealousy and the possessiveness really worry me.

The coke thing - he didn't like you putting it in your body because he thinks he owns your body. He thinks he owns you - he wants to control your body and to control who you see.

Take the HUGE issue of his alcohol problem out of the equation and you are still left with a man who has no respect for you. He doesn't respect you when you are drunk and he doesn't respect you when you are sober.

letitburn Sun 09-Feb-14 19:48:53

(sorry that should be when he is drunk or when he is sober)

Squeegle Sun 09-Feb-14 19:48:55

Poor you. It's crap when they go off to the pub and turn off any devices so they can't be tracked. I used to get horrible butterflies in my stomach wondering when he'd be back, what he'd be like etc etc.

Don't waste your time thinking about him, looking to track him down. I know where you're at. Honestly it's not worth it. Concentrate on you.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Sun 09-Feb-14 19:53:58

Oh god, the 'swearing on life' thing.

It's like a big sign saying I AM AN IMMATURE DRAMA QUEENY PRICK.

I have never known ANYONE who uses this 'technique' to indicate 'oh-I-really-mean-it-this-time, lookhowseriousIam' to not be an utter, utter wanker.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 19:55:19

Just look at the double standards - you are expected to put up with him being out all hours doing who knows what and drinking 30 pints. You stay out late and try cocaine and it justifies a humiliating assault. Somehow you think his reaction was fair and that you were to blame.

One thing you have steadfastly ignored throughout the thread is his drink-driving. Is this because you can make it ok when his behaviour hurts and threatens you but you can't justify it when it puts others at risk, therefore you want to ignore it?

Sorry if you feel hectored. Your situation has worried a lot of people and we all want you and your unborn baby to be safe. Realistically, as long as you are with him and he is still drinking you cannot protect your baby. The only way for your child to be safe is if he seeks treatment for his alcohol problem and you stay away from him until this is well underway.

Wishing you lots of luck for the future.

Viviennemary Sun 09-Feb-14 19:55:39

Apart from his health surely that costs a huge amount of money. To actually consume that amount of alcohol he must be out a lot longer than just an evening's drinking.

summermovedon Sun 09-Feb-14 19:58:34

Sweetie. You are not the first person with a drunk, abusive husband and wanting desperately to make it all turn from a nightmare to a fairytale. For posters to say that you are making it sound worse than it is. That was me posting here a number of years ago, not wanting to hear what attila and others said. Nothing will change. You need to ignore his words and look at what he is actually doing. He is showing no remorse and no regret. I would recommend you read a book on codependency, to give you an idea:

Determining If You’re Codependent
If you’re wondering if you’re codependent, take a look at the following list of symptoms. You don’t have to have all of them to be codependent, and there are degrees of severity of codependence. If untreated, codependency gets worse over time, but with help you can recover and be much more effective in your work and relationships. Here are some common traits:

Low self-esteem

Not liking or accepting yourself

Feeling you're inadequate in some way

Thinking you’re not quite enough

Worrying you are or could be a failure

Concerned with what other people think about you


Pleasing others and giving up yourself

Poor boundaries

Boundaries that are too weak and there’s not enough separateness between you and your partner

Boundaries that are too rigid and keep you from being close

Boundaries that flip back and forth between too close and too rigid


Dysfunctional Communication

Difficulty expressing thoughts and feelings

Difficulty setting boundaries — saying “No” or stopping abuse

Abusive language

Lack of assertiveness about your needs


Afraid of being alone or out of a relationship

Feeling trapped in a bad relationship and unable to leave

Relying too much on others opinions

Intimacy problems

Avoidance of closeness

Losing yourself

Trying to control or manipulate others

Feeling trapped in a dysfunctional relationship


Denial of codependency

Denial about a painful reality in your relationship

Denial of your feelings

Denial of your needs



Controlling your own feelings

Managing and controlling people in your life; telling them what to do

Manipulating others to feel or behave like you want (people pleasing is a manipulation)


Addiction to a substance or process

Painful emotions








I can tell you you obsessing about his whereabouts through find a friend. That is insanity. It will not get better. Those feelings will drive you nuts. This man has so little respect and love for you that you have absolutely no idea where is all night, frequently. He may well be cheating on you, he has no boundaries to his behaviour. And no reason to stop. The fairytale you want is not real.

Clutterbugsmum Sun 09-Feb-14 19:59:00

Of course he is at the pub, he will be there with his family because they all have drinking issues.

You need to be honest with both your dad and sister about his behaviour when he is drunk. They can not protect you if they don't know the truth.

He may change but only of he loses every thing. There is no reason to change while you are covering for him. And when your baby is here and behaving like a baby. He will that as an excuse to drink more/ more often. His behaviour will become worse.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Sun 09-Feb-14 20:01:12

You say you need something big to happen. That big thing could be you or your unborn baby ending up dead.

Fishandjam Sun 09-Feb-14 20:01:52

Agreed Vivienne. He's dropping, what, £100+ a night on one of these benders? Not including cab fares and whatnot. (I know he may not be paying for every drink but if he's buying rounds, it'll work out the same.)

ImperialBlether Sun 09-Feb-14 20:08:03

OP, picture yourself in hospital, having had the most lovely baby. You're on a real high. You have to stay in a few days (touch wood you won't!) He's there the first day and you feel so lucky with the beautiful baby and the lovely DH. Then on the second he leaves you early because he's meeting his friends at the pub to wet the baby's head. You next see him 36 hours later, stinking of booze, angry with you because he had the right to drink to the baby's health, didn't he?

Then a week later when he's been woken at night and is tired, he goes out when the baby's crying. He needs some peace. 30 pints later and he's back - how peaceful do you think your life will be?

He has to want to change. He doesn't want to change.

TippiShagpile Sun 09-Feb-14 20:08:48

He'll come crawling tomorrow when he's got the morning after regrets.

If you take him back then he has won. It's all a game to him. "I'll go out and get pissed and show her that she's not in charge of me or what I do."

"I'll promise her the earth just to fob her off but she'll take me back regardless - she always does."

I wish you lots of support and strength OP. if you can find the strength the get out, otherwise you will spend the next 18 years protecting your child. Our children are a product of their childhood and their experiences.

Good luck OP.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 20:09:49

I have never known ANYONE who uses this 'technique' to indicate 'oh-I-really-mean-it-this-time, lookhowseriousIam' to not be an utter, utter wanker.

Not to mention a liar.

mamalovesmojitos Sun 09-Feb-14 20:10:55

I was there op. Stuck it out for three/four years. Wish now I'd walked away when pregnant. I didn't have the strength. I hope you find yours faster than I did. Things will be so much better.

mamalovesmojitos Sun 09-Feb-14 20:11:28

I was there op. Stuck it out for three/four years. Wish now I'd walked away when pregnant. I didn't have the strength. I hope you find yours faster than I did. Things will be so much better.

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 20:18:16

Aaaaand the "sorry" texts have started arriving. He asked to come home tonight, said he hasn't got his work clothes. I said I would leave a key under the bin in the morning and his clothes for a few days in the hallway for him to get, and he was ok with that. He didn't insist on coming home (maybe because he's been drinking and he knows I'll know?).

Anyway, I'm over it tonight. I can't change his behaviour, I get that. I won't give him ultimatums or tell him what he can/can't do. I'll just tell him I can't be with a man who drinks like he does, and that's the end of it. If he tries to change (and I believe he will try) then we will see if it can work. But I'm stronger now than the "other" times, and whilst it might not seem like I have boundaries, I do have some, and any aggression or drunkeness and I'll go.

Make sure you put as much as you possibly can together for him to collect - he will use the "I just have to get x/y/z" line during the week as an excuse.

Is there anyone else who could collect his stuff?

NewBeginings Sun 09-Feb-14 20:22:13

You ARE strong op, and your baby is luck to have you. I believe that you will make the right decision(s) x

MonsterMunchMe Sun 09-Feb-14 20:22:51

I've been where you are.

Left when DS was 18 months old.
Has taken so long to fix myself and my life, emotionally and financially especially.

My family are useless as well and minimized to th extreme. It's should destroying but I learnt to detach and hold on to the notion I was right and he was an abuser.

If you are not ready to leave him, please seek some therapy in the mean time. If you can afford it, go private, about £50 per session, I recommend human givens therapy, I had 6 sessions over 10 weeks. Best £300 I have ever spent and changed my life completly. If there are no human givens therapists in your area please check for a therapist who specialises in co dependancy.

Take care.

HopeClearwater Sun 09-Feb-14 20:24:44

Christ, what's with the victim blaming? How is that helpful advice for the OP?

DollyTwat Sun 09-Feb-14 20:25:05

Stay strong ahoy, good to see you making choices for yourself and the baby. You can't make his choices for him, only your own.

<hand to hold>

ladypanbanisha Sun 09-Feb-14 20:25:12

Just see your ultimatum through to make him see he needs to choose between his wife and child or the drink. It is his choice.

TippiShagpile Sun 09-Feb-14 20:27:03

The only people victim blaming are the op's h and her dad.

No amount of therapy for the op is going to reduce his utterly selfish, abusive ways

Ah, see what you mean now Monster, sorry

HopeClearwater Sun 09-Feb-14 20:29:11

I've been in this situation OP. Save yourself, your sanity and your child. Print out your post of 20:18 and look at it whenever you need strength. Good luck.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 20:31:07

Monster, as a genuine question, isn't therapy a bit of a slow process for where the OP's at? I completely understand why it's helpful (and why it is not victim blaming) but I wonder if it will get straight to the more urgent need of her situation, so to speak?
Haven't done therapy in a crisis situation, so genuine question.

Clutterbugsmum Sun 09-Feb-14 20:33:03

If he does 'change' then don't believe if after a week. It will takes months if not years before you should be at that stage.

And he has to do all the work from finding somewhere else to live and getting help with it. NOT YOU, you should only be looking after yourself and your DC.

Squeegle Sun 09-Feb-14 20:37:12

I would say that for me the catalyst in changing things in my life was really "getting" that I couldn't change my binge drinking other half. It truly illuminated my thinking and allowed me to change everything.

If therapy helps the OP to get this illumination then so much the better. Without blaming any victim, all of us who have been in this situation realise that we did "allow" it, while other people may have said no. The key to getting out is understanding ourselves sometimes.

I think it probably takes a while to come to terms with the need to change he way that you think. If you have spent your life thinking that his is normal behaviour and that you essentially have to suck it up, it will take a while to think differently.

Definitely not a short term fix but it might be worth thinking about long term.

Sorry - aware I'm not Monster but that is how I've read it blush

ChrisMooseMickey Sun 09-Feb-14 20:40:41

Hi oP. I can only offer advice from the alcohol side of things I'm afraid. You cannot help anyone that doesn't want to help themselves. My fiance has drunk abnormal amounts from the age Of 15- his brother's and sisters are all the same. His circle of friends are all the same. I fell pregnant by accident. He promised he would change and it lasted all of about 5 minutes. He worships the ground I walk on. He promised he wwould change. Let me down over and over.
It's very very very easy to justify how much they drink when you know that you are no Angel yourself. But please believe me when I say this: the fact that you know 30pints is unreasonable is all you need. (I am absolutely aghast at the fact that your DH can put away 30pints, DF couldn't manage more than 15, and he has been a hardened drinker for 25years!)
Fast forwards year. DD was 7mo and things still hadn't changed. He went to work one day and was breathalysed- over the limit at 11am in the morning. I was so ashamed, so ashamed that he done this to us and I didn't speak to anyone for 3 days. He was sacked immediately.
The best thing I did was tell someone. Someone far removed from our friendship circle with a 'normal' perspective on life. I have been surrounded alcoholics for 22years- I had no idea that things weren't right.

His family thought I was being stupid too because they too, are alcoholics and don't realise. They have no idea.

He has changed. It has been a slow, painstaking process but it only began because he lost his job and had a serious health scare. It has been so hard because I love him. Just like you.

Please talk to your midwife, or someone unbiased. About the abuse, everything. None of this is your fault. It isn't. Please don't expose your baby to the domestic violence-it isn't fair.
I normally wouldn't say this because I do believe that people CAN change, only if they want to- but leave. Please. A baby won't make the abuse better. The alcohol is clouding the issue. I'm sure your DH is lovely when sober, but if he can't promise to be sober or drink a normal amount (1-3pints), it's not worth it.

Whocansay Sun 09-Feb-14 20:45:49

I would text your SIL and ask her straight if he's gone to the pub. Hopefully, her loyalty is to you, not him.

I would want confirmation either way, just simply to see how sincere (or not) he was being when you talked earlier.

But if he turns up drunk and aggressive later this evening, please don't hesitate to call the police. You have to protect yourself and the baby.

I'm really sorry you're going through this OP.

DoloresTheNewt Sun 09-Feb-14 20:46:14

Yes, totally agree that therapy could bring her to see the OP's powerlessness over her husband's addiction (sorry, OP, discussing you as if you're not here on your own thread for a moment). I was a bit curious over the time frame, though, as my only experience of therapy is that it isn't renowned for quick revelations. I guess, though, that there is a very broad range of experiences so I think I'm starting a bit of a red herring here!

DollyTwat Sun 09-Feb-14 20:48:01

My ex lost his licence twice and got sacked from loads of jobs. Funnily enough it was losing his best friend that made him give up the drink. Sadly he is as much of a twat sober as he was drunk

AhoyMcCoy Sun 09-Feb-14 20:59:38

It's harder to detach than I thought. I'm so angry about the tracker thing, so I text him to say I knew it was off, and that meant he was in the pub. I said I knew he would deny it so I didn't expect a response, but I wanted him to know I would never believe his words and they meant nothing to me. He replied with
"I didnt no it was of, I just turned it on. I'm only at SIL's and have not gone to the pub today. I am sorry and I'm not drinking while your pregnent. I understand why you don't believe me, and I no I've said it before but this time I'm for real. I can't upset you anymore it's not good for the baby. I guess in time you will see I mean it. I love you so much And your my whole life. I ain't messing it up anymore. You make me so happy and your a perfect wife and you deserve better and that's why I'm making this change. Hand on heart I am sorry and I mean what I just said. Sleep well and I love you"

Arghhhh. My head thought "bollocks, ignore it. All talk" but I still cried. I need so desperately to give him this chance so I will know for sure if I do leave that I've done the right thing. He's not eloquent or particularly well educated, but he knows exactly what to say to make me want him back. I still won't take him back yet, I still need space but arghhhh.

Understand that there may be those who feel they can't stay on the thread, and that someone choosing to stay in this relationship is too difficult to watch.

SIL just text (coincidentally?!) to say DH is at hers and so sad. She just overheard her DH offer DH a beer, and she heard DH say "no thanks I'm not drinking anymore". Seems a bit convenient really. Going to ignore the well intentioned advice from his family.

Could you turn your phone off?

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 21:05:47

Of course he didn't just switch tracker off on his iphone location.
'Not drinking again whilst your pregnant' what about when baby is here?
Maybe he lied about being at pub does it really matter now?....what would you do if he admitted he had?

Yes the vocal response to being offered a beer does sound cringey....for your benefit I suspect.

Stop checking trackers and keeping tabs it's going to drive you mad.

Try and get some rest

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 09-Feb-14 21:11:15

SIL just text (coincidentally?!) to say DH is at hers and so sad. She just overheard her DH offer DH a beer, and she heard DH say "no thanks I'm not drinking anymore". Seems a bit convenient really.

At least you're not dumb enough to fall for that obvious load of bollocks.

He probably asked her to text you that.

Switch off your own tracker now. He has no need to know where you are.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 09-Feb-14 21:16:31

Do yourself (and baby a favour)...if you decide to give him another chance, set yourself a limit to what you'll put up with before saying 'enough'.

Will it be ok if he only gets half as drunk as usual? Will it be ok if he goes on a bender to wet babies head? If its at 3 months??

Your dsis in law is trying to minimise this and the 'offering a beer' bit is bollocks. Why the guck is he being offered a beer anyway, even if it is true?!!!!!

Only1scoop Sun 09-Feb-14 21:27:00

His whole family are minimising and normalising his them it is normal.
To be honest it's not just the drinking is it?....lack of trust....him accusing you of 'shagging' someone else?
Tracking each others movements....

Do you really want to be "waiting for something big to happen"

mummytime Sun 09-Feb-14 21:27:33

I would really advise you to quietly/secretly go to some Alanon meetings. I think you could do with building up a support network, and talking/listening to people who know what you are going through.

jellyandcake Sun 09-Feb-14 22:04:32

I have got a bit fixated on the 30 pints issue and just raised that with dh (not mentioning the rest of the thread). He calculated that at 69 units - meaning your husband would be over the limit for 2-3 days after drinking, which is worth bearing in mind in terms of him being safe to look after the baby. He then looked up the story of darts player Andy Fordham who went on lesser binges than your husband (25 bottles of beer in a session). He ballooned to 31 stone and was told 75% of his liver was dead and the remaining 25% was severely damaged. He went on the emergency transplant list for a new liver. Happily, he did give up drinking and lost 17 stone which has bought him some time in waiting for a new liver. (Am retelling this from memory of what dh told me so hopefully have it right). But if your husband truly, genuinely is consuming up to 30 pints in a session, that's a pretty grim glimpse of the future ahead of him.

Zucker Sun 09-Feb-14 22:23:55

I lived with a 20 / 30 pinter. He was/is a barman and this was par for the course with his crowd. Anyway to cut a long story short it ended with me in family court, black and blue, in front of a judge asking for a protection order to keep him away from me. I moved out that afternoon and never looked back.

Good luck OP, a baby didn't change my drinkers opinion on "socialising" either. I was also known as the killjoy of the group because I didn't approve of their sessions.

ChrisMooseMickey Sun 09-Feb-14 22:30:25

His family have drinking problems too. They will not realise what an issue this is.

Well done for ignoring them and keep it up.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Sun 09-Feb-14 22:32:50

If the tracker is always on, then yes he did turn it off and you know that.

Liar (on baby's life, natch).

And yes your SIL's call is a bit too convenient.

You know that too.

I just wish you all the best, OP, and my main bit of advice would be to listen to others who have been there. All of them seems to be saying that leaving is hard, but it's a damn sight easier than not leaving.

ravenlocks Sun 09-Feb-14 22:48:08

My sister was in a similar situation to you OP a couple of years ago, except it wasn't just alcohol that her DH would binge on. She was pg too and (as we all see it now) enabling him. He also didn't drink/ use very often, didn't drink during week - binges were every few weeks/ months and for that reason he and all of us took a while to believe he was an addict, but plenty of professionals assessed him as just that.

She desperately didn't want it to be happening. We all felt the same, she wanted her DH but without the addiction poison. She wanted a father for her child and a happy family. He was a decent bloke I'm every other way.

Things worked out ok for her so far, her DH admitted the problem, sought help, had a bit of a bumpy ride to recovery- tried and failed a few different ways. Is now a year clean and sober, working the 12 steps and going to AA. He takes responsibility for this, she is still suffering with trust issues etc but her life is so much better, as is his, than it was when they were both in denial.

livingzuid Sun 09-Feb-14 23:15:57

ahoy I've read through the whole thread. I hope you're tucked up in bed now with the itracker disabled and phone turned off to get some much needed sleep.

There's so much wisdom on this thread so please don't leave it and please keep posting. Perhaps one day you will revisit some of the advice when you feel able to act on it. Just a few things to consider:

- your tone has changed with your posts as the thread has gone on to a more positive one. It seems as if you're realising this is not normal or acceptable behaviour.

- But please don't minimise anything that has happened to you. Being hit with a pillow and then having water chucked at you for a night out and dabbling in some narcotics does not warrant some huge crazy man in your face. Ever. It is not OK. I cried when I read you saying it sounded silly out loud.

- he is an alcoholic. The rosy picture you present of your ideal future is NEVER going to happen. He has to cut the booze completely forever or he will never change.

- the abuse is separate to this imo. He is abusing you when sober and abusing you when drunk. It doesn't matter if he's not physical as such, it is all abuse. Being an alcoholic only seems to enhance his abuse. Ring Women's Aid for advice or just support from someone neutral in rl. And never for one moment doubt that what you have experienced, and continue to experience, is abuse. I'm very much afraid that it is.

- you are surrounded by people who have an unhealthy approach to drink and this is something you have grown up with as has your h. The UK doesn't have the best attitudes to booze but even so this scenario you describe is not normal. My apologies for being lecture-ing but I suspect you have a bad relationship with/view of alcohol as well and AA meetings will provide you with such support. NOT that ANY of this with the H, your families etc is your fault. I am referring to some of the comments you've made about you and drinking and your outlook on it. You can have fun with no alcohol smile How do you break this cycle for the sake of your baby? Do you want he/she growing up with the approach that it's OK to drink 30 pints a session? Or even 10 which is shock

- your dad is wrong to not support you. This must have been hurtful. Perhaps something to think of is how you will be able to live if you move out with you and the baby. You can always do the sums and see what support is available to you as a single mum. There is lots of advice on here.

- you sound absolutely lovely and very strong to have stood your ground. Was that a first, telling him no? You have such a low opinion of yourself which made me sad as I think you are doing the best you can. I well know that feeling of desperately hoping and wishing my relationship well.

- I left my XH after 8 months of marriage. I received recriminations and outrage from all my family. My mum was always fawning over him and forever taking his side. They thought he was oh so lovely. I didn't tell either about the 8 years of neglect and psychological abuse and haven't to this day. But they've accepted it now 3 years later. I had to go through it all on my own but I did it. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done and took moving halfway round the world to see what he was. Basically please don't feel you can't leave just because you married less than a year ago. It can be done.

- Do you not believe you deserve better than this?

I really rambled, so sorry, but your thread made me so aghast on your behalf. I'm not saying leave as only you can reach that conclusion, but just wanted to share a few thoughts and potential questions to ask yourself.

Finally please take good care of yourself
Stress takes its toll on the mother and unborn baby and being pg is hard work.

And very good luck to you with whatever you decide thanks

MoominMammasHandbag Sun 09-Feb-14 23:22:36

OP my sister lived with a very handsome, charming rough diamond. I liked him a lot, we were good mates. They always had a pretty tempestuous relationship, but I figured she gave as good as she got.
Then one day she rang me in tears and confessed that he'd been violent to her for some time. He was dead to me from that day on. I wouldn't spit on him he was on fire.
What I'm trying to say OP is that your family aren't necessarily trying to minimise your situation. They just want to believe you will get your happily ever after. Chances are if they knew the truth about his behaviour to you they would be 100% on your side.

MonsterMunchMe Sun 09-Feb-14 23:34:03

What I meant by therapy, is it's helpful to go to see an impartial person, who will help you see the wood from the trees until you are ready to make a decision about what path to take. It's especially helpful if you are surrounded by people who excuse and minimize the partners behaviours.

The OP did say she was not ready to leave for good so I was giving her a suggestion as to how to make her life easier and get stronger in the short term.

It worked for me in 10 weeks when I'd been living with XH for 5 years.

Sorry if it came across of victim blaming hmm

MrChow Mon 10-Feb-14 00:13:12

Oh OP sad

I grew up with sociable parents, dad more so a drinker but it made me more sensible really. I loved a drink when younger but I knew what was sensible and what wasn't. Anyway I met a man when I was 22, he was a after work stop at the pub type drinker. A bit older than me and his habits were hard to break. I tried to, he made lots of promises. Lots, because I was pregnant quite quickly. He was an ass to me, pushy, throwing things and at one point I had such low self esteem I asked for him to compromise and not drink Stella, but carling. Naive, and wanting the best for my future I clutched at many straws.

Anyway I had my son early hours of a Friday morning. Emcs. By 3pm that afternoon the text started about wetting baby's head. By 6pm he was edgy and when I asked why he said his mates had planned his night out. That night. By 7:30 I had no choice but to watch him leave whilst the other dads on the ward stayed until kick out time at 10pm. Humiliating. Then I couldn't get hold of him for 17 hours. I reckon I rang him during that first night 50-100 times. Endless texts.

He turned up about midday, reeking of alcohol. Literally fell onto my bed saying how fucked he was. I made him leave and go sort himself out. He was useless all day. Next day I went home. Within 15 mins there was a knock at the door and he was back out.

The biggy that stays in my mind though was one day leaving to go to my parents. We had to leave by 10am. The World Cup was on and he went to the pub about 7:30/8am. I had to drag him out around 10:30am and e rowed most of the way, including him who was sat in the back throttling me as I was doing 80mph up the motorway. With our baby in the car.

That was 11 years ago and it didn't take me long to get over him and be a better parent to my son. I'm now happily with someone else and we've 2 more children and I've realised how hideous my first experience of having a child was. I can't get that time back. I won't we've miss the clock watching or never wondering if the text will be answered. I've oodles of self esteem now, that's what love and respect do for you.

Incidentally, my sons dad. We see him every week. He's a great dad mostly, but still a drinker although not with my son.

Even my son comments on it, and if his dad rings and its obvious he's in the pub he puts the phone down. Says his dads different. Hates drinking and smoking.

I hope you get your happy ending.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Mon 10-Feb-14 04:48:00

I have read the thread, and I am very sad for you and these awful circumstances.

Hormonal Imho, being pg (or the rockin' prenatal vitamins wink) brings a certain kind of clarity to reality . Well done on paying attention to your gut feelings and even more so on acting on them!

I am not a medical professional, but a word of caution about your dh and the medical side of his mess. He may experience life threatening side effects if he attempts to stop drinking cold turkey. It may not be a concern for an intermittant drinker. But how can someone have the tolerance for Thirty Pints and also be an intermittant drinker? It might be that he is drinking more than you realize.
However, be clear, Ahoy, if he does suffer withdrawal issues, it is not your fault. He has voluntarily done this to himself.

Marnieshere Mon 10-Feb-14 06:05:43

He's not going too change. He'll say he is. Go to a few meetings and slyly be drinking the whole time. Then it's the lies you have to deal with.

Save yourself the time, arguments and frustration and get out now. I did it at 3months pregnant. Best decision I ever made! It's hard for a bit but I have such a simple stress free life now with my baby and I love it!

Good luck smile

mammadiggingdeep Mon 10-Feb-14 07:38:56

Mr Chow flowers so happy you're happy now...

mammadiggingdeep Mon 10-Feb-14 07:39:12

* glad you're happy...

Emz8369 Mon 10-Feb-14 10:00:11

how are things today ahoy

Notalwaysabowlofcherries Mon 10-Feb-14 10:24:40

Yes, I am wondering how your day is starting too. Stay strong. You have rock solid support here on MN, just remember that.

differentnameforthis Mon 10-Feb-14 11:27:32

Never hit me, ever, but lots of name calling/yelling in my face/ pushing etc the pushing is enough, op. Yelling in your face is aggressive.

I was curled up in bed while he hit me with a pillow repeatedly, threw a pint of water over me, and pushed me into the floor. That's pretty much the worst it's even been Isn't that bed enough? He has escalated from pushing to hitting you (albeit with a pillow), but he is still hitting you.

and I'm not excusing him, but I had been drinking too and I know I'm much more "and what?! I don't care!" when I'm drunk, whereas if I'm not drinking, there is very little aggression because I sleep in the spare room and it never has a chance to escalate. So you avoid him to avoid escalation? He is hurting you. No matter what you do/say, there is NEVER an excuse for him to hit you.

differentnameforthis Mon 10-Feb-14 11:33:53

I'd manage without him, I just don't want to I think it is very sad that you are going to continue to subject yourself & your baby to this.

Where were your parents when he was hitting you? What do they say about this?

differentnameforthis Mon 10-Feb-14 12:09:31

How did you get home from your SIL's, op? Did you let him drive you?

AhoyMcCoy Mon 10-Feb-14 13:51:25

I'm ok today, thanks all. Slept well etc.

Just feeling a bit detached from it all I think. More texts today saying how sorry he is etc. His solution is definitely not drinking while I'm pregnant. And I know that's a stupid solution. He's suggesting it because he doesn't want to cause stress to be and unborn baby, but yet it's ok to go back to drinking once baby is here and cause stress to me and our living child?! It's nonsense.

I'm not going to tell him what he should do though, and I'm not going to tell him he can't ever drink again. These changes need to come from him. I'll tell him if he ever gets drunk like that again, if he scares me, if he breaks his promises ("oh I promise il be home by midnight" when he still isn't home by 10am the next day), then I'll leave. And then it's up to him what action he takes. If he keeps drinking thinking he can manage to be reasonable, and he can't, I'll go.

He's promising to change already, wants to be home. I think I'll still keep our space for a week - enough to show him I'm serious this time and for him to realise what he's risking, and to give me a chance to go to the Al-anon meeting on Thursday and get some perspective.

I've got some lovely friends from university who all live much "nicer" lives. Drinking 30 pints or a pint of vodka would horrify them. I messaged them all to say I was having a difficult time, and without going into the history of it all, they were so insanely supportive. Telling me it's entirely the right move, and whilst they like DH his behaviour is so unnacceptable and me and baby deserve better etc. So I have my "real life" support now too.

petalsandstars Mon 10-Feb-14 13:56:24

Glad to hear that you have rl support flowers

NigellasDealer Mon 10-Feb-14 14:02:00

did you really think that 'up to ten pints' was OK?
also, is it actually possible to drink 30 pints?
at three pounds a pint that is ninety quid!
if i were you i would leave now before the baby.

tribpot Mon 10-Feb-14 14:09:16

Whilst you're still earning, you need to set yourself up with an emergency fund so you can get the hell away from him and his Greek chorus of enablers when this next happens - which will be when you have a new baby and are feeling completely vulnerable and unable to deal. He'll be holding all the cards at that stage, and that if nothing else will make him feel able to slip without you being able to respond. Money at least will give you choices.

Why would quitting for your pregnancy make any sense? There seems to be an undercurrent here that the only problem is that you can't go out and get hammered, and therefore you're taking your frustration out on him. Utter bollocks.

You need to give up on your dream of you and he having a normal relationship with alcohol together. That won't happen. Your hope needs to be that he comes to his own realisation that he needs to quit permanently, before he dies or severely debilitates himself. You're right that you can't lead him to that, it has to come from him. And the problem with this so-called abstaining whilst you're pregnant is that he has painted it as being 'for you'. So if you upset him, he will cease to do it 'for you'.

Your 'shocking' cocaine revelation, btw, is the same amount that Victoria Coren admitted to taking recently in a national newspaper. It's not shocking in the slightest and in no way comparable to the benders he goes on. You need to get that out of your head.

Ahoy - just a suggestion, but could you ask him to stop drinking altogether? Tell him how his drinking makes you feel, and that you think he has an alcohol problem, and particularly that you are terrified that, once the baby is born, he will go back to his excessive drinking habits, and that you think he needs to give it up for good.

I think his response to that would be very telling. If he listens, and appreciates what you are saying, and agrees that he has a problem, and needs to give up alcohol, then I think that would be a really positive sign, and would give me hope. But if he poo-poos the idea ha the has a problem, and is unwilling to acknowledge your concerns, and particularly if he thinks it is enough for him to quit whilst you are pregnant, and go back to bingeing once the baby is born, then I think that would be a very bad omen indeed.

Bottom line, the first thing he needs to do is to accept that it is NOT normal to drink 30 pints at one sitting - even a long sitting (and that such long drinking sessions are themselves abnormal). Unless and until he does that, I wouldn't be letting him back into my life, if I were you.

Asking a person to stop drinking is futile; you cannot control someone else's drinking (its also one of the 3cs of alcoholism).

bibliomania Mon 10-Feb-14 14:55:28

Glad you've had a good night and you've finally got some rl support from friends.

Just wanted to comment on your point yesterday:

"And "oh well he hit me with a pillow a few times and threw water over me" sounds so ridiculous when you say it out loud. It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to end an otherwise happy relationship."

Not wanting to hector you, but yes, it is enough. It's not like you need the affirmation of a random internet stranger, but you're not being given this message by your family (or his) so here it is again: that action was enough to leave him, all by itself.

One of the last things my exH did before I left was pulling me into the bathroom from the collar, while I had baby dd in my arms, because he decided I hadn't washed her properly and he was going to make me to it again. Something about that final humiliation pushed me over the edge. It's not just about physical pain - it's about someone using physical strength to dominate you and do what they want. Someone who thinks of you as a lesser being, who has to obey. It's the attitude behind the action.

Drunk as he was, would he do it to your dad? His mates? His work colleagues? No, you're the one he gets to dominate.

Oh, and he'll be strategic, consciously or not, in terms of his future behaviour. He won't do one big transgression just yet - he'll test you out with small, incremental transgressions. Each time, it will be such a small thing that you feel it will sound ridiculous to make a protest, and if you didn't protest at the last thing, how can you protest at the next thing, which is just a little worse? He's smashed your computer. He's attacked you physically. Where do you think it can go?

Final point - obvious there are physical concerns about him being around the baby. But don't under-estimate the harm done by the fact that the energy you invest in him (worrying about his mood, about the signs he might be about to go off on a bender, all the effort that goes into managing the situation) is energy that you don't have available for your baby. It's hard to be really "there" for a child when half your mind is elsewhere, worrying about what is happening with your H.

AhoyMcCoy Mon 10-Feb-14 15:12:24

Nigella Yes, to be honest, I genuinely honestly thought 10 pints is acceptable. Most of the men I know wouldn't be "drunk" after 10 pints. Tipsy, yes, but not drunk. I guess that's why I thought I was overacting about his drinking. A typical session might not be 30 pints every week, but certainly 15-20 he could do without batting an eyelid. And I didn't realise this was so unusual.

I didn't realise the severity of the drink driving if I'm honest, either. And I know that's terrible. He picked me up from work once when he'd drunk 8 pints (that he admitted to - probably more). I told him he was an idiot, but he seemed normal, and I had never really thought of the drink driving as being such an issue. I promise it is now.

I agree I can't/won't ask him to stop drinking, that needs to come from him. But does anyone know of a drink driving awareness course you can choose to go on (a bit like a speed awareness course?) I think his drink driving is through stupidity and not being aware of the risks because he feels fine, and isn't done through evil intent. I'd like to insist the takes a drink driving course if such thing exists.

You're right, Atilla - I misspoke when I said 'ask him to give up completely' - what I meant was that Ahoy needs to find out if he has any awareness that he has a problem with alcohol! and of the steps he needs to take - and that posing the question, and listening to his answer would help her see if he has this awareness or not - more a test of his understanding, iyswim.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 10-Feb-14 15:17:57

I think his drink driving is through stupidity and not being aware of the risks because he feels fine, and isn't done through evil intent.

No drink drivers actually INTEND to kill the people they murder through their negligent feckless selfishness.

They ALL do it because they are stupid and refuse to recognise that alcohol affects your ability to drive LONG BEFORE you feel even remotely drunk.

But they are still evil bastards for doing it, because there is no excuse for putting other people's lives at so much risk just so you can get home in your own car.

AliceinWinterWonderland Mon 10-Feb-14 15:20:15

People don't drink drive through evil intent, they mainly do it through stupidity and vanity.

FriendlyLadybird Mon 10-Feb-14 15:26:26

But that's the thing about drink-driving -- the alcohol reduces people's awareness of just how drunk they are. No one drink-drives through evil intent -- it is only ever just stupidity and lack of control of their drinking.

There isn't a course -- there is just the law. He should not drink and drive.

Sorry -- I haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed it, but I am appalled at his behaviour and staggered that anyone could drink 30 pints in one go -- also that anyone should think 10 pints was normal. You must know some very heavy drinkers. My DH is flat out after about two pints nowadays, though he did drink more heavily when younger.

Anyway, I think you should ask him to stop drinking altogether. Sure, if he's an alcoholic he probably won't stop until he's ready to, but I think it is a more than acceptable request/demand for you to make. He is a horrible drunk; you CANNOT bring a child into such a toxic environment when you are going to be perpetually worried about his falling off the wagon. And if he does fall off, his behaviour is positively dangerous on so many levels.

It's easy for me to say, I know, but I would probably just leave.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 15:30:44

Ahoy....glad you have got some RL support now....hopefully friends with a bit about them who won't minimise his disgusting behaviour.

Not up to you to try to control his drinking, as you say yourself....he is an adult ....and soon to be a father.

Courses do exist I've been on one. For phone whilst driving....not drinking. It was so horrific I had to leave before the end. I wouldn't know if anything like this is available but then again....not up to you <at 5 months pregnant> to have to try and find ways to educate the idiot. He is an adult, and from what I read on here sounds like he doesn't really think its that he's doing anything wrong. He and his family think you are a 'hormonal' pregnant wife and you'll get over it.

Please do all you can though to keep him off the road whilst drunk. Please call the Police next time.....If you choose to get in the car with him again that's your choice. If the '10 to 30 Pinter' kills someone they have no choice in the matter at all.

stowsettler Mon 10-Feb-14 15:37:33

I've just read the whole thread through and I just wanted to make the point that so many issues have been raised here:-

- excessive drinking
- drink-driving
- emotional abuse
- physical abuse

But you only seem to be addressing the first one (and, latterly, you've started to address the second).

The fact that you're pregnant is scary. You have no concept of exactly how vulnerable you will be with a newborn. If he immediately falls back off the wagon, and of course he will to 'wet the baby's head', you will be entirely at his drunken mercy. God only knows what will happen when you chuck in a few sleepless nights, problems feeding, colic, etc etc.

My DP and I have a good and equal relationship. However we were tested right to the limit when DD came along a year ago. It is terrifying that you are prepared to put yourself in this position.

I understand that you want him to be the man you thought he was and, who knows, he may be able to get there. But you need to take responsibility for addressing all the other issues here as well, because they are if anything more dangerous than the drinking thanks

AhoyMcCoy Mon 10-Feb-14 15:42:46

I understand that there are issues to address. I'm addressing the first two because they are 'easiest' and because I think that the abuse is triggered by the drinking, and can be solved be sorting the drinking.

I've sent him the following text.
"Just to let you know where I stand; I think stopping drinking because I'm pregnant is pointless. It implies that the only reason I have a problem with your drinking is because I can't drink, or that it's only become an issue since iv been pregnant, and neither of those are true. I've found texts/reminders/ Internet stuff going back since we met when I have said to you so many times your behaviour isn't normal and it isn't right. And let's be honest, me and my feelings aren't enough to make you stop, or you would have stopped already. And that's pretty sad that I'm not enough for you to want to change.
If you do want to change, you need to think of a way of making sure you change for good, not just for the next four months.
I'm still not ready to have you back, I still want space for a week- I think it's good for both us. I've got a meeting on Thursday that is for relatives etc of those with drink issues (and if you don't believe you have an issue, then we are beyond fixing). I think it will help me get some perspective on things, so I'm happy to meet with you Friday if there is anything you want to talk about."

tribpot Mon 10-Feb-14 15:43:48

Btw he also needs to go to his GP and talk about his alcohol consumption. I guarantee he won't want to do this because it is (a) scary (I've done it) and (b) it makes it permanent, real and 'public' (although of course it is not).

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 15:48:15

You have pretty much spelt things out there. It will be interesting to see what his reaction is of your intention to attend an AA rels meeting.

Good step not letting him back in aswell ....I wondered if you would.

LIZS Mon 10-Feb-14 15:48:16

I fear, since he clearly puts his drinking ahead of your feelings now, you will find that he also places them ahead of your baby and you in turn in a few months' time. It will be very hard for him to change and sustain that change whilst living amid a culture condoning, if not encouraging, drinking to excess and its associated destructive behaviour. Good luck

AhoyMcCoy Mon 10-Feb-14 16:07:19

Got his response back already.

"All week is a bit long I think, I no you need time, but it's to long to be away from you. I've got a cold and I don't want to stay at SILs cos I'm worried Dnephew will get it and he's just over one. Can't I please come home tomorrow and stay in the box room for the week and take it slow. Your much more important to me than drinking, il stop for good. I promise I will put this right and prove it to you whatever it takes. It's crazy staying apart so long, please just think some more"

I'm going to say no, and that he has the money to go to a hotel. I think it's important he sees me saying something and sticking to it.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 16:09:42 know what you have to do....
Gosh his response really is pathetic hmm

tribpot Mon 10-Feb-14 16:10:40

Damn straight, OP. He just wants to come home where it's easier to work on you. A guy who can drop over a hundred quid on a drinking session can certainly afford a hotel. And frankly every child is going to get every cold that's going, so it's a bollocks excuse as well.

He needs to know that you are firing live ammo. If you let him back he'll know you never stick to your word when it comes down to it.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 10-Feb-14 16:13:46

I'd send it back with the correct spelling of "know" but I'm a horrible person when I'm cross.


They are fed up of me already and want to know when you'll be back in your basket.

bibliomania Mon 10-Feb-14 16:15:59

Well done for holding your ground. He really doesn't want you to have time to think, does he? You can see how he's desperate to be there in your space, working his charm.

tribpot Mon 10-Feb-14 16:16:54

Plus I think he's embarrassed to have been kicked out of his house. What this is not is a response which considers what is best for OP, just how he can get what he wants.

Chippingnortonset123 Mon 10-Feb-14 16:21:25

Tell him to stay in a hotel. Be strong and make him realise that you are serious.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 10-Feb-14 16:21:31

He's lucky you're even giving him a chance...he shouldn't push his luck!!

LIZS Mon 10-Feb-14 16:21:38

How pathetic. He can use his drinking money to pay for a Travelodge room. Yes he's lost face angry on your behalf

Stevie77 Mon 10-Feb-14 16:28:10

AhoyMcCoy as I've been reading your thread for a few days now, I wanted to send you a big ((hug))

I've seen the effects of alcohol abuse on families and relatives and you are being incredibly brave and are doing the right things, even though it is difficult.

BridgetJonesPants25 Mon 10-Feb-14 16:35:38


Definitely stick with it. He needs to know you are serious. It may be the key to getting him to realise how much he stands to lose if he continues the way he is.

Ultimately he needs to make the choice to change for the better himself otherwise he will never stick to it. But maybe knowing he will lose you and your baby will make him want to do it for all of you (himself included)

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Mon 10-Feb-14 16:39:27

It's classic, isn't it?

They never change - they are what they are:

'I love you, I know it's awful, I'll do anything, please don't leave, we can fix this blah blah...'

'Right, I need space for a week, we can talk Friday.'

'Oh! No, I don't agree with that - it inconveniences me quite a bit you see. Can't I come home and make a big show of being a changed man without having to actually be put out at all?'

You couldn't make it up - but you don't need to, you see the same script with every jackass busy ruining some woman's life described on here every day.

FanDanceLil Mon 10-Feb-14 16:44:16

I am sorry that you're being caused excessive stress at a time which can already be stressful (first pregnancy).

I just wanted to post as I have lived with a partner who thought nothing of drinking dangerous amounts of alcohol. He was caught drink driving twice, the first time was given an 18 month ban and a fine, the second was a 4 year ban and 2 months in prison. I didn't have a child when this happened but it was still bad enough and I stayed because he told me he would stop blah, blah, blah. He didn't though.

Another point I'd like to make is that I work in a hospital department where excess alcohol is one of the main reasons our patients are there. 10 pints of alcohol per week is excessive and will caused organ damage, blood clots and increase the chances of strokes etc. 15 to 30 pints in one go is a shockingly large amount and, if this is regular, has probably already done some irreparable damage.

Whatever you decide to do OP is your business but having already been in a similar situation my ex-partner, note the ex, because when it came to whether we could afford nappies/food/baby milk or alcohol, it was the alcohol every time. sad

Take care x

AngelaDaviesHair Mon 10-Feb-14 16:46:28

I get that you want to give the relationship another go. Bear in mind that you may have to separate in order for both of you to have the space you need to work out what you want (and in your DH's case, whether he is going to stop drinking). It might do you both much better in the long run to have a significant period part from each other.

Also, please bear in mind that your DH might well stop drinking and yet be the kind of man that will still pour water over you, hit you with a pillow and smash your laptop against the wall. That kind of behaviour is a more fundamental problem than just having had a lot to drink, I suspect.

Sorry to have to say it, but please for your sake and your child's don't let yourself assume that all he has to do is knock the boozing on the head and all will be fine. You two may well work it out and have a good future together but stopping drinking is only going to be the first step in an arduous process, not the last.

jellyandcake Mon 10-Feb-14 16:47:07

Maybe ask at Al-anon for recommendations of drink driving courses/information? There must be something available. I know someone whose best friend was ploughed down and killed by a drunk driver - someone who was known locally for driving after drinking all the time. People get used to getting away with it and don't think it's a big deal but it really is - it's the most selfish thing anyone can do. There will be hundreds of stories on MN of people whose lives have been damaged by drink drivers and who are a lot more knowledgeable than me, I'm sure the information will be easy to come by.

If all the men you know habitually drink 10+ pints, in a few years you are going to know a lot of very overweight and unhealthy men who are going to succumb to some pretty unpleasant illnesses. It's a really scary level of alcohol consumption and will have catastrophic effects on them physically, mentally and financially. It sounds like your social circle have a very distorted view of normal drinking and that must make your situation much, much harder to resolve.

Also, bollocks to his cold. He's probably hungover and that's not infectious. He wants to get back before your meeting on Thursday so he can stop you from going.

AliceinWinterWonderland Mon 10-Feb-14 16:58:12

Oh don't tell him about the meeting on Thursday! The minute he knows, it's a target to keep you from going.

juneau Mon 10-Feb-14 17:11:35

Good for you OP! You're handling this well. Agree to stick to your guns on keeping him away for a week. If you don't stick to what you say, neither will he. Your only hope of changing him is for him to love you enough to want to change. You're going to have to be really tough and show him you mean what you say.

summermovedon Mon 10-Feb-14 17:21:25

Unfortunately, telling him you are going to Al Anon won't make a difference if he doesn't think he has a problem. My exH met up with me once after an Al Anon meeting - blind drunk, most embarrassing and an eye opener for me (and the death knell for our marriage if I am honest). He never really did get the irony of it. He had done the whole appeasing me, definitely going to AA blah blah blah. He could only do AA at the exact same day/time as my Al Anon meeting (i.e. to stop me going), so when I booked a sitter instead, he accidentally found his way into a drinking establishment, probably to prove to me that he didn't have a problem confused.

But on a serious note OP. You need to do two things, one set your boundaries and stick to them no matter what. Even if it means the end of your marriage. Only you can choose your boundaries and the consequences, but you must stick to them or they are meaningless. Second, you need to learn detaching with love - that means no more trying to stop him seeing the light/ obsessing about what he is up to/ etc. That road leads to insanity and won't help, as it is enabling him to not take responsibility as you are doing it for him. You are responsible for you and your happiness only, and if you remember that and live by it, he might maybe change perhaps.'s_syndrome
The rate he's drinking, even 'just' ten pints in one go, will fuck him up. You could end up as his carer, how do you fancy that?

Bunbaker Mon 10-Feb-14 17:43:29

"You could end up as his carer, how do you fancy that?"

SIL is her husband's carer. She has a horrible life. She should have kicked him out years ago.

AhoyMcCoy Mon 10-Feb-14 17:44:31

I have never in my life been an assertive person. I never say no to anyone. I'm a people pleaser. The whole MN thing of "no is a complete sentence" is baffling to me.

But I just text back to say that no, staying in the box room wouldn't work, and that me and baby needed to be in a stress free environment this week. I reminded him he could stay at SIL2/SIL3's houses etc. He text back almost immediately to say that was fine and he understood. That he would be round between 5:45-6 to pick up clothes and would leave, and leave his keys in the bedroom. (I won't be in).

I know there is a load of you who will think I'm being naive, and some will think I'm being downright stupid, but being able to stand up on this and him accepting it is HUGE for us. I can't cross my fingers tighter to wish this is the start of what is to come.

Notalwaysabowlofcherries Mon 10-Feb-14 17:48:26

Congratulations, OP. You have been really brave and I think everyone on this thread is proud of you and cheering you on. I can imagine it is hard to stay strong and insist that he goes to a hotel, but as previous posters have said - it gives him a clear message that you can't be pushed around and mean what you say. Definitely get to that Al-Anon meeting. You are doing brilliantly. It may take some time for the dust to settle and work out what will happen (i.e. whether he can change or not), but just wanted to send virtual hug and tell you what a brilliant job you are doing. It is not easy, this stuff.

Fluffycloudland77 Mon 10-Feb-14 17:50:18

Good for you. You can learn assertiveness, being a mum will bring out the inner tiger in you.

PeanutPatty Mon 10-Feb-14 18:01:57

Just be prepared that he may be waiting for you to discuss things rather than leaving as previously agreed.

DoloresTheNewt Mon 10-Feb-14 18:12:51

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other with the next right thing to do, OP. Don't think about the decision twenty steps ahead - think about the next decision.

AchingBad Mon 10-Feb-14 18:39:03

To those denying that 30 pints is possible: my husband, who, like me, is a recovered alcoholic, rolled his eyes when I told him about OP's husband: 'Probably Boddingtons' was his cavalier reply. I'm assuming the 30-pint marathons take pace over a full day and night, am I right, OP? Who cares? The man is capable of drinking 30 pints and that's that. That's an awful lot of money and an awful amount of time spent in a pub neglecting his pregnant wife. Who are these people who think 10 pints is outrageous? Loads of blokes drink that amount on a regular basis (and lots and lots of women drink bottles and bottles of wine per week). Drinking has got completely out of hand in this country and half the population think they're oh-so-superior in their drinking habits.

OP, I'm chuffed to bits you've confided (albeit in a truncated fashion) in your uni mates. It's a massive leap to ask for support and to be brave enough to say your life is off kilter because of your husband. Don't be ashamed any longer. Keep talking and keep coming here for as long as we are a support to you. I wish you the very best.

AchingBad Mon 10-Feb-14 18:46:50

OP, I missed a full page of posts including the text to your husband and his reply. I am bouncing on the settee in glee that you have been so brilliant and succinct and steadfast. I'm sorry if I sound patronising; I don't mean to. Your text said everything he needs to hear and I pray you will have the fortitude to at least stick to the one-week-away rule. This is one parameter you must not allow to be budged, because you may find it is the foundation for all your future bravery and steadfastness.

livingzuid Mon 10-Feb-14 18:56:30

ahoy great stuff on the text and rl support. Please stay strong and take care of yourself.

AchingBad confused at your comment re ten pints being outrageous. Just because people are drinking that many units, be it through beer, wine or whatever, doesn't make it any less outrageous or shocking. It's far far too much to imbibe in one sitting and awful that the op considered that normal because it isn't and it shouldn't be.

AchingBad Mon 10-Feb-14 19:00:03

Living, I promise I'm not advocating that level of drinking, I was simply saying it's not unusual for folks to think it's normal. There really are many people who drink in this fashion, and it's a huge, huge problem. I'm sorry if I sounded blasé.

tribpot Mon 10-Feb-14 19:04:58

10 pints is about 20-25 units, isn't it? More than 2 bottles of wine (albeit not much more).

AndTheBandPlayedOn Mon 10-Feb-14 19:09:01

Assertiveness maybe new territory for you, Ahoy, but I have a really good feeling you will take to it like (insert favorite metaphor) a duck to water. Well done!

I agree with others who say he has to want to change for himself as his decision to do so. This promise to change for you while you are pg as something you have asked/demanded/required...may and probably will be used against you in the future. See, right now you are in control, and he will see this as controlling him. He may bide his time, but know with metaphysical certitude: There WILL be payback for this...because he will have to save face in the man culture at work/pub/whoever knows him...perhaps even with your dad! Please tell your dad everything asap.

The list of concerns is a complex web, they are not independent entries such as a shopping list. His belief that physically or emotionally abusing you is acceptable behavior (whether culture driven or not) is of primary concern. Based on his treatment of you (and the chilling remark that he is not your boyfriend anymore- he is your husband), I would not be surprised if he thought it was his right to abuse children as well (as he is the father and he might think dc don't even rate as humanbeings?).

His willngness to drive while intoxicated shows a belief that rules do not apply to him. Drinking Thirty Pints shows a belief that rules do not apply to him. Are there any rules he does follow? Yeah, as previously posted, do not try this shit with the blokes and closing time at the pub.

Next time he asks to come home early, extend it to two weeks.
I hesitate to say this, I do not want to be an alarmist, but I am afraid for you. I would not want to be alone behind closed doors with him again.

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 19:31:39

I'm someone who would find my partner out on a regular '10 pints outrageous'
Unforgivable though if he drank another 20 and then himself home next day....

Op stick to your word....don't waiver he will take total advantage

Only1scoop Mon 10-Feb-14 19:32:19

Should say 'drove himself'
Whoops confused

jellyandcake Mon 10-Feb-14 19:37:38

Aching I totally agree that there is a dangerous binge drinking culture in this country but I wonder if, as recovering alcoholics, you and your husband know more people whose perception of a 'normal' amount to drink is higher than most? I find 10 pints shocking for a married, working father on the basis of the incredible damage this will cause to health. 15 pints and beyond is unimaginable to me just on the basis of it being such a huge volume of liquid, let alone alcohol.

Well done on your assertiveness, OP, it must be coming as quite a shock to your husband. Sounds like you are doing really well sticking to your guns.

LizzieVereker Mon 10-Feb-14 19:37:57

OP , I've read the thread, and won't add to the brilliant advice that you've had on here, but just wanted to say I think you're really brave and doing the right thing. I'm not very assertive either, and I know how much courage it must have taken. flowers

I was thinking of you today, and will continue to do so, stay strong. Something tells me you're going to be a great Mum.

cjel Mon 10-Feb-14 19:51:53

OP I haven't read all this but just wanted to send you best wishes and say you are doing so well for a people pleasersmile You do know you are a person as well and can please yourself!!

strictlyfan2013 Mon 10-Feb-14 20:05:54

Please let me tell my story. DH was a heavy drinker when I met him but it got worse and just before Xmas he beat me and DD called the police. He was arrested, charged and now a restraining order is in place. This was after 16 years of emotional abuse, spending 1000s on booze and fags, refusing to stop smoking in the house, sleeping on the loo sometimes for days on end, rarely washing, humiliating me in front of friends and family and various healthcare officials, telling me I was crap in bed and not touching me for 13 years, not lifting a finger in the house even though he was at home all day...and a million other things. Since he's been gone DD is so much happier - she wants no contact with him at all, we don't have a bean but I can now manage the bills properly, there is no atmosphere, we laugh with each other, I feel happy every day instead of moody and like the whole world is against me. Why didn't i get out of it sooner? I was scared as he said he would kill me and the dog if we left. Please don't think it will get better. It won't. I have got my life back at 42 but you can do it now. Do it for your baby if not for yourself.

AchingBad Mon 10-Feb-14 20:13:24

Jellyandcake, yes, I think you make a fair point there.

hollyisalovelyname Mon 10-Feb-14 21:37:38

Well done Ahoy. Strange he is so concerned about his dnephew ( in case he infects him with a cold) and yet he couldn't give a fiddlers about his dear pregnant wife sitting on a cold step waiting for him to get home with the key.
Tell your dad what an arse your husband is for goodness sake or get your dsis to tell him.

differentnameforthis Tue 11-Feb-14 03:43:10

I have never in my life been an assertive person. I never say no to anyone. I'm a people pleaser.

I am the same as you op. Yet at 15 I told my 21 yr old boyfriend that he was never going to drink & drive again (I hid his keys when he came to see me) & if he did, we would be over.

He never did it a again. We are still together. His whole family had tried to stop him, they have no idea how a 15yr old did it. Come to that, neither do I. I just knew that I didn't want him to have to live with it if he killed/hurt someone, because he was a lovely man.

You need to mean it, op. It is all well & good saying it, but you have to stick by it.

And by the way you swerved my question, do I take it that you did in fact let him drive you home? In which case, you are as bad as he is.

scottishmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 06:56:06

Take care op,you're under no compulsion to justify your action/reaction to anyone on mn
You've not reached your break point.^yet^. You want to try make go of marriage
Do let mw know your circumstances,and best as you can try keep calm

scottishmummy Tue 11-Feb-14 07:06:19

Your post is so condescending different very well I bloody did it and I was 15.yes15
Well op isn't you,she's not 15.shes not yet ready to cease contact with him
Op has been hectored a lot on amount of shrill warning or mn cut and paste will change her opinion. Best that can happen is op be made aware of action/consequence of his drinking upon her,baby,him

trinitybleu Tue 11-Feb-14 08:11:50

stay strong OP, you can do this

Deathwatchbeetle Tue 11-Feb-14 08:13:55

Please never sit shivering on a door step for this man or any other!

AndyWarholsBanana Tue 11-Feb-14 08:16:03

Totally agree sm. OP I think you're doing absolutely brilliantly especially considering you're surrounded by people who are hell bent on making you believe that you're over-reacting.
I detest all the passive aggression and bullying on these threads towards someone who's being abused enough already - Why did you choose to have a child with this man? Your poor poor baby etc...
There are numerous posters on here describing their abusive relationships and how many attempts or how long it took them to leave yet the OP is being given a hard time for not leaving NOW! THIS MINUTE!!
WA rightly get mentioned a lot on these threads because they're brilliant but they would never badger and hector a woman into leaving if she's not ready because they know it doesn't work - and they should know.
I've seen threads like this when the OP does leave and then the thread goes quiet - probably because she's gone back to him (as most women do the first few times) and is too scared to come back on the thread because she think's she;ll get a hard time.
I stopped drinking but only after DH ordered me to go and stay in a hotel for a week. When I came back, we talked and he told me that he loved me but that, if I ever got drunk again, he was leaving and he made it categorically clear that he meant it and that there would be no second chances. For me, the only way to guarantee not getting drunk is to not drink at all so I don't.
It does really concern me about not drinking until the end of the pregnancy because that makes it sound like he's thinking that everything will get back to normal again - you'll be able to drink and stop being such a misery guts which doesn't bode well.
One final quick thing - AA doesn't work for everyone, it didn't for me. The people I know who've been to AA have either totally embraced the whole thing or just hated it. There are other kinds of help - what got me started was a tablet called Antabuse which means that you'll be violently ill if you drink in the 48 hours after you've taken it. PM me if you want any info about different treatments.
Take care x

DoloresTheNewt Tue 11-Feb-14 10:04:02

Hallo OP,
I hope you won't pay any attention to differentnameforthis's post. It's terribly easy to say "I did x and y was the result, so y will also be the result if you do x". Just because her partner responded in a certain way doesn't mean that yours will. As well as being assertive and strong, for which she has my respect given her age at the time, differentnameforthis got lucky. Her partner responded in the way she desired. Yours won't, necessarily.
As for the other statement in her post, ignore that with bells on.

AhoyMcCoy Tue 11-Feb-14 10:29:04

For those who are being supportive and kind and wonderful, thank you. I feel stronger now than ever before, I know that his behaviour isn't right, and that I shouldn't put up with it, and I know how very very wrong it would be to ever expose my baby to that.

I sent him a text last night - might not have been what a lot of you would have done, but I know him. He's not particularly articulate or educated and I know he won't really understand why this time I reacted so differently, so I wanted to make sure he understood. I text him
"I don't want you to think I'm being unfair on you, or that I'm punishing you unfairly. Its not about me anymore, it's about baby, and baby deserves to grow up in a house where I'm not biting my nails to death after you promised to be home by midnight and it's 11am an you're not back. And I can't bring baby into a home where I'm worrying whether you'll get so drunk this time that you'll come home and start yelling at me for no reason. I won't have a little girl grow up and think it's ok to be left on the doorstep in the cold and treated like shit when her husband turns up. I want our little girl to grow up and I want her to think "I want to find a man who treats me as good as my dad treated my mum", and I don't want her to settle for less than perfect. Baby needs to have THE BEST role models ever, and that's why I'm doing this."

(I know the bit 'it's not about me anymore' makes it sound like if I wasn't pregnant, treating me like this is ok, and I didn't mean it to sound like that, and I don't think he'll take it like this. All he has wanted for so long is to be a dad, and I knew that it was important I made clear that his behaviour to me affected whether he was a good dad or not, IYSWIM)

He replied with
"I totally understand, I don't want you or baby under any more stress. Il come home when your ready and not before. I love you so much and I promise I will be the best dad/ role model ever. I will do everything to give you and baby the best life I can. I promise no more mess up. Take my word for that cos I never ment anything more"

I know it's early days, but I think he gets this. He gets how important baby is, and that how we live our lives affects our baby more than anything.

Fwiw I think sending the text was the right thing to do. Hopefully it has touched a nerve.

Do you think he realises that he has a problem?

Do you think he would go to AA?

AhoyMcCoy Tue 11-Feb-14 10:41:50

He would go to AA if I suggested/insisted he did, which I won't do. Any actions need to come from him or they won't be sustainable.

I think he realises his behaviour is a problem and isn't right or acceptable, and he realises the amount he drinks and the binges are a problem and are unnacceptable. I don't think he is ready to acknowledge that the solution to this is to stop drinking completely, I think he thinks he can lessen his intake considerably. He stopped smoking 20+ a day the minute he found out I was pregnant (again, his decision, I've never insisted on this, just made it clear he couldn't smoke around me), and I think he thinks he got the willpower to just be the lovely affable drunk he is when he doesn't drink to oblivion.

I second AA. They really helped dh at the start, when he gave up alcohol. He doesn't go any longer, because he manages fine without, but he knows they are still there if he were to need them in the future.

If he has reached the point where HE really wants to change, that is the first, and most important step. Remember, though, even if he does quit, cold turkey, and decides never to drink again, he might lapse - it is a really hard addiction to give up - but a lapse doesn't have to mean total failure (to either him or you) - it is a setback, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world. If he has a lapse, he has to forgive himself, and start again, staying sober. He, and you, need to see it as a one-off, not total failure of the sobriety project.

I also wonder if some couples counselling for you both would help - particularly so that you had a safe environment in which to explain to your dh exactly why this upsets you so much, and to help him to see how much of a problem his drinking is.

I am sending you lots of good thoughts and wishing you both much luck with this.

bibliomania Tue 11-Feb-14 10:49:35

You're being very fair to him. I actually like the tone of his response. I hope he steps up to the plate.

I see what you are saying about him having to make the decision to go to AA by himself, but I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to mention them to him.

At the point where dh crawled out of the utility room, where he'd been on the floor, drunk, (unbeknownst to me), and burst into tears because he had hit rock bottom and needed help, I actually rang AA. They told me that he had to ring them (and if I recall correctly, I couldn't just hand the phone over to him either) - because, as you say, it had to be his decision.

But it was OK for me to ask him if he had thought of AA, and did he want to speak to them now - which I did, and he said yes, and then spoke to an AA volunteer on the phone. The next day, I drove him to his first meeting.

So, whilst you probably shouldn't say, "I want you to go to AA", you could say something like, "Have you considered asking AA for help?"

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 11-Feb-14 10:53:02

I think he thinks he got the willpower to just be the lovely affable drunk he is when he doesn't drink to oblivion.

Even if he does have that willpower, given the staggering volumes he consumes that would still involve drinking far more than his body will be able to cope with over the long term.

I think you are very sensible to let him come to these decisions on his own.

MrsKent Tue 11-Feb-14 11:05:08

You say you don't think he has a drinking problem BUT you were hoping he'd change when becoming a father...
You say you've told him you wouldn't put up with his behaviour but you have done nothing to show you won't...

I think you know he has a problem, I think you are realising he won't change of his own will.
All you can do is change your attitude and show him with actions what you think is unacceptable.

Maybe first you need to decide what is acceptable and what isn't for you.

Maybe what you could put up with as a partner is not what you can put up with as a mother?

DoloresTheNewt Tue 11-Feb-14 11:10:00

One thing that it might be worth considering with AA is that it has the tendency, oft mentioned in meetings, to "ruin your drinking". What I mean by that is once a drunk has sat in meetings and listened to, effectively, their own life being described to them, they find they can no longer drink in total denial of what they're doing. Recovery in these cases often follows, though not necessarily immediately.
You are spot on in that the impetus to attend a meeting does have to come from the addict, and the desire to change, which is why AA will never ring a drinker at the request of a third party. But that doesn't mean that you can't encourage him, or perhaps even give him AA literature to think about.
I do hope that you're still planning to go to the Al Anon meeting on Thursday, because if nothing else, there will be lots of experience there to draw on in terms of how to find the tricky line between "making" your husband go, and encouraging him to seek help for himself because he sees he needs it.

AndyWarholsBanana I totally get that AA isn't for everyone, and hope I don't sound like I'm trying to push it to the exclusion of everything else. But it does have a comparatively high long-term success rate in this area where long-term success rates overall are so unhappily low, and it's the only thing I've got experience of, so I continue to bang my AA drum smile. Also, I do think Al Anon is a tremendous resource for the OP as it's full of people who've gone through everything from deciding to leave their DPs (and subsequently had to learn how to co-exist with an alcoholic parent, no mean feat in itself) to those whose DPs have gone into recovery and who have remained married. And probably some who remain married to drinking alcoholics...