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Am I the aggressor as he says?

(78 Posts)
Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 11:56:29

Please be honest and tell me whether I am as awful as he says I am.

My DP left on Sunday. We have a daughter who is a few months old.

To give you some background, we have been together about 8 years on and off. He is divorced and also has DCs with his ex wife.
When I became pregnant I was on the pill, so it was unplanned. He wanted me to terminate. I went for counselling and as far as booking the termination, but cancelled it the day before as I couldn't go through with it. He decided he wanted us to be a family and we moved to a bigger house nearer our families.
I think I suffered from undiagnosed antenatal depression, as i definitely wasnt myself. He left several times throughout my pregnancy saying I was weird, fat etc. Every time he left he said he wanted nothing to do with his unborn child. I always took him back as I wanted my daughter to have a dad in her life. And I loved him.

I had my DD and he has been a good dad on the whole. But, our parenting styles differ significantly. He says I am possessive and obsessed with my DD. I say he is too hard and rough with her, but there is no doubt that he loves her; he's smitten.

We have had quite a few rows and he has left me twice. I am suffering from PND and am on ADs and having CBT. It is more anxiety-bases about my daughter. I know I havent been easy to live with and have been over protective of my DD at times.

He has called me fat, schizophrenic, weird, said he can do so much better than me and that I am a bad mum.
He has always been critical of people in general, but I am starting to believe he is emotionally abusive. My family think he is... they say I am a shadow of the person I was before I met him

We had his other DCs this weekend. All was good until Saturday night. He wasn't in the best of moods. We went to bed and his children had left the light on by mistake. I was feeding DD so asked him to turn it out. He refused. I jokingly lifted the duvet off of him and asked him again. He turned round, pulled DD off of my breast and told me to do it. Not only did this hurt me, but my DD screamed and cried. Instinctively, I punched him in the arm. I know I shouldn't have done that, I don't know what came over me. I asked him to leave the room and sleep downstairs. He refused and kept trying to pull my DD off of me. I was trying to push him away from us with my feet. He was smirking and telling me I'm crazy. I was full of remorse for lashing out and kept apologising. But I was so shocked that he pulled my DD off of me and was using her to try to get to me.

Sunday was OK, we had quite a nice day, but he was off-ish with me. At about 8pm, my DD was asleep on me and had been for some time. I commented that I should wake her so that she could be fed. He went to lift her off of me by the scruff of her sleep suit. I shouted at him not to lift her like that, but he grappled with me, so I flicked his ear. He punched ne hard in the leg, so I pinched him. He punched me again harder. His DC told him to stop.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:02:25

Of course you're not the aggressor. He's been an grudging participant from the outset of your pregnancy by the sound of it and now he's openly hostile. As the violence is escalating and you are being forced to defend yourself, you should get this evil man out of your life before you get seriously hurt.

LilyBlossom14 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:04:35

blimey - he is awful. Snatching a feeding child from you, calling you names, etc. You need to get away from him. He isn't a good dad at all. Call Women's Aid before he really hurts you or your daughter.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 12:04:45

Sorry, posted too soon.

I told him to leave. He grabbed all hia things, told his DCs to do the same and left.

His DCs have since measaged me to say they cant believe he was so rough with our DD and that he punched me. I apologised for what they witnessed.

I realise this is a massively long thread, so wont go into more detail.

He is now saying that I am abusive and the aggressor and that he is going to report me as he has concerns about our DDs safety. I am at my wits end, I would never hurt my DD, I was trying to protect her which is why I lashed out at him. I am so worried that I may lose my DD. Please help.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:07:11

Of course you won't lose your baby. Please don't worry about that. To be on the safe side, keep those messages from his DCs very carefully as they are evidence of his aggression.

Dinkel, his own dcs think he was aggressive with you and dd. If he's rough with her he's not a good dad. He's abusing both of you. Get away safely. It will only get worse. He is testing your boundaries and setting you up to blame yourself.

Gigondas Wed 29-Jan-14 12:07:46

I would call the police yourself. You have grounds.

And concerns about dd is his way getting at you. Get rid of this man now for your sake and your daughters.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:08:36

"My family think he is... they say I am a shadow of the person I was before I met him "

If you haven't done so already, please be with your family. They obviously saw straight through him from the off and they will be very supportive of you.

Yes, definitely keep the messages. They are evidence that he was abusive and not you. SS would be interested in seeing them if he reported (which he probably won't, since they would look at the evidence and see it is him)

Jan45 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:09:53

He wouldn't be getting within an inch of any of my kids, he's not to be trusted and is a complete bully, I have no idea why you want to be with this horrible man.

Twinklestein Wed 29-Jan-14 12:10:27

No you are not. He is abusive and he's dangerous. You punched his arm when he ripped DD from you out of animal instinct to protect your baby.

Please call Women's Aid today, they will help you formulate a plan to leave. I would also tell your GP about these incidents under the guise of asking for advice, as you need to create a paper trail of his actions.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:13:48

BTW to answer your question directly here's the test you should apply. If a random stranger had walked in off the street, snatched your baby off you or called you the names this man thinks it's OK to insult you with, would you be on the web asking 'am I the aggressor?' or would you be calling 999 and getting the person removed from your house?

This man wanted you to abort your beautiful baby. I don't think there should have been any come-back from that.

OxfordBags Wed 29-Jan-14 12:19:53

OP, not only are you not going to lose her, you should ring the police on him. Hitting a women who is holding a baby is a massive red flag to the police and other people knowledgeable in abuse matters and child protection. These people also know that a woman lashing out, or hitting back at a man who is abusing her and potentially risking her child's safety, is a completely different thing from being an aggressor.

Please understand: a man who will grab a baby by the scruff of her sleepsuit, pull her off the breast, or hit her mother whilst she is holding her, is NOT a good father. The fact that you believe he loves her is irrelevant. Men who rape, beat and abuse their children purport to love them. Does that mean they are good fathers? Of course not. Actions speak louder than words.

Please understand that this is not 'six of one, half a dozen of the other', this is you, a victim of abuse lashing out and defending herself and her child out of animal fear and protection for her little one.

Donot delude yourself that this is not affecting your baby badly. The fear, stress, anger, violence, etc., will be damaging her emotionally. It is also v damaging for his other children to witness this sort of thing.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 12:22:37

Thank you all for your replies, they are helping me see through the fog a little. I know I was wrong to lash out, but, in my mind, I was protecting DD.

He would never believe he was abusive. He is the nicest person as far as most people are concerned. Most of the time he is so loving towards our DD and he really is smitten. I dont think he would intentionally ever hurt her, he just doesn't realise how heavy-handed he is.

I have told him he will need to arrange supervised access if he wants to see DD now. He said that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me, so will reluctantly have to cut ties with her.

The other thing is, I have been financially supporting us as he only got a job a few weeks ago and I am on full maternity pay until Feb. we planned that I would not go back to work for a few months and he will take over supporting us. There is no way I can afford to run this 3 bed house on SSP. I have no idea where to turn.

My life is such a mess. All I want is the best for my daughter and I've failed already.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 12:28:14

Sorry, cross posted with most of you.
Thanks again for taking the time to help.

He is no longer here, he has moved out, so no worries about mine or my daughter's welfare now.

I would feel like a fraud if I reported to the police. I gave as good as I got.
I just dont want him taking my baby away.

LilyBlossom14 Wed 29-Jan-14 12:29:38

But he is intentionally hurting you - and grabbing her in such a way must have hurt her.

You do need to report his behaviour - you need it on record what he has done to you. Financially if you are not together you need to sort out maintenance from him - CSA is probably your best bet for this. You also need to not contact him at all.

He will try and come back, I am sure of that. Your strength will be in refusing to take him back.

BrokenButNotFinished Wed 29-Jan-14 12:36:24

Tbh, he lost my good opinion when you wrote that he called you fat and weird while you were PREGNANT.

I agree with everyone else: you need to document everything, consult professionals and change the locks.

And you also need to stop thinking you were on an equal footing when he started the argybargy: you were clearly the more vulnerable.

And - I don't think it's generally possible to overprotect a baby of a few months old.

ShimmeringInTheSun Wed 29-Jan-14 12:36:39

Dinkel All I want is the best for my daughter and I've failed already

Actually, you are giving her the best by taking steps to protect her form this man, therefore this is a success NOT a failure. You are NOT a failure .

Take things one at a time, one day at a time. Follow the good advice of others on this thread, and make you and your DC your focus.

they say I am a shadow of the person I was before I met him

^ this is exactly what my family and friends said to me when I found myself in a shocking marriage. I walked out, with my child in my arms, and went on to spend 15 fabulous years with my amazing boy.

Each day you lose staying with that man, you will never get back.

Sending you strength, optimism, and faith that you will find a way through this.

The very best of luck to you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:37:22

If you don't want there to be even a remote chance of your baby having to spend time with him then reporting it is the best way forward. You don't have to prosecute necessarily but you need it on record that he was violent towards you. The police non-emergency number 101 can put you in touch with their DV unit who can advise. Womens Aid 0808 2000 247 are not just for people looking for refuge, they can also recommend appropriate legal help and give other advice on how to recover from here.

I know you wanted a traditional mum/dad set-up for your DD but making her grow up with a man who hates you was never going to achieve that. What's best for her is to be loved, safe and with a mother who is not constantly under attack.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 12:41:23

I need to digest all of your posts more. It is beginning to sink in just how serious this is.

Cogito - I haven't told my family, or anyone, the extent of what has happened, just that he has gone.

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 12:43:43

You are not the aggressor at all. I havent read the replied.

He is abusive and by the sounds of things it is escalating. He is not a good father, at all, in the slightest.

My advise to you would be to call police and womens aid.
Alot of abusers threaten with social services, and many follow through with it. It is all a form of control and still a way of abusing you.

They will not take your daughter away from you.
Please stay away from this awful man

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 29-Jan-14 12:44:31

Time to be honest with someone you trust. Risk the 'I told you sos'. Acknowledge it's over. Burn the bridge. All the time you keep quiet you're protecting your abuser and you are taking a terrible burden on yourself. So tell the truth, shame the devil and you can start to think about the future

muddylettuce Wed 29-Jan-14 12:50:46

Dinkel, you are not alone. Please tell your family and enlist their help. It sounds as if they already suspect abuse, emotional or otherwise. You can report the assault to the police, punching you is an assault, the messages from his dc will be useful here. You are not the aggressor. You were protecting you and your baby. X

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Wed 29-Jan-14 12:58:39

Christ almighty.


This is why. Yes, as it concerns the situation between you two, you could argue that 'you gave as good as you got'. But that's not the point - especially as he has gone and you are confident that you will not be living/in a relationship with him again. The point is that in these two separate incidents a part of what he did was to assault, or attempt to assault, your tiny baby. That is horrific, and SERIOUS. You need to report this to the police and to Social Services, because if you don't, then if he decides at any point that he wants contact - maybe in order to frighten or cause trouble for you - then there will be no record of his violence and he WILL get unsupervised contact.

Protect your daughter NOW and for the FUTURE.

You have evidence of his violence both to you and the child.

You need to make sure - and now is the only time you can do it - that he is 'locked down' on contact. You say in your OP that he can only have supervised contact from now on. If you don't report, and he decides on a whim that he's taking you to court for access, HE WILL GET IT, and you then talking about past violence will have limited effect.

Please please call the police. I am worried about his other children too - if he can be that rough with a tiny baby, then he is not a safe person around any child.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Wed 29-Jan-14 13:00:49

Oh and actually your description of you hitting his arm and pushing him with your feet - I can tell you that if someone, DH or anyone, grabbed my baby from my breast in a violent manner then I would react instinctively to protect the baby by ANY means possible. I'd probably have ripped half his fucking hair off. And I would consider that absolutely justified!

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 13:15:29

I am taking on board everything you are saying. I dont know why I am not ready to report at the moment, perhaps because it is only now that I am coming to terms with what has happened. I will report at some point, I am sure of that.

Bruno - his other DC are teenagers. He has never lifted a finger to them. I always admired him for being such a good dad. I would never have had him in my daughter's life if I thought there was any chance of him hurting her.

What has happened is completely out of character for him. I know he has been suffering from depression for a while, but I never thought it would lead to this.

I'm sorry for not name-checking you all, but please know that I am grateful for your insights and advice.

Hissy Wed 29-Jan-14 13:18:52

All abusers accuse their victims of being the ones that abuse them. They all tell us that we are crap women/mothers/sisters/humans.

you need to report this to your HV and GP at least. This has to be documented, or he may go on to get unsupervised access. ATM, I don't think that would be in the best interests of the DC.

Hissy Wed 29-Jan-14 13:19:46

depression doesn't do this to you, it doesn't make someone pick a baby up by the scruff of the neck FGS.

Twinklestein Wed 29-Jan-14 13:22:44

What he did with his other children is irrelevant, he's abusive now, that's all you need to know.

But you've not no assurance he wasn't like this when they were little. Maybe that's why his wife got out...

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 13:22:59

You could even just report it to womens aid. They will give you a log number. If needed in the future for police or the likes, im sure they could access it.

It is confidential and they are a great help.
Not pressuring for you to report. Just giving you other options.

Im not entirely sure that what i am saying is correct. I know they give log numbers - if i am wrong please correct me

You need to report this man because he is dangerous not just to you but to women. Infact such types hate women, all of them.

Please take heed of the other respondents wise counsel and report him to the Police. Like many abusive men as well he has and is projecting onto you (he is really the aggressor here).

Depression in itself does not cause someone to become violent; he made a conscious choice and that was to hit you. He needs reporting because he needs to face the consequences of his own actions.

I would also suggest longer term that you enrol yourself onto Womens Aid Freedom Programme as this is for women who have been in abusive relationships. Such men can and do take an awful long time to recover from. You could do with talking to Womens Aid in any event.

Pigsmummy Wed 29-Jan-14 13:27:07

Wow, I wish I give you a hug. You sound like a loving mum, I am appalled by his behaviour to your DD. don't take him back

LilyBlossom14 Wed 29-Jan-14 13:31:07

don't use depression as an excuse - and how do you know he didn't abuse his ex and other children?

Eatriskier Wed 29-Jan-14 13:39:32

Please please please report him. Yes you may have given as good as your got, but he was hurting your baby ffs. It may not be deemed the right reaction but I'd lash out at anyone dragging my child off me, picking it up by the scruff of its suit and generally being rough. And then I'd call the police no matter how much I loved them. That baby needs protecting and by not reporting this you're leaving it open for him to have her unsupervised and to do god knows what with her in future. Also someone who won't see their kid however it comes up because it doesn't suit what they want is not a good father.

BIWI Wed 29-Jan-14 13:45:01

He doesn't sound very smitten with his daughter to me hmm

He'll happily walk away from the pair of you, and thought nothing of grabbing her and hurting her.

That's not smitten at all.

And whether he is depressed or not does not excuse him.

You are well rid of him.

LadyInDisguise Wed 29-Jan-14 13:57:30

Sorry but this guy just did NOT want a child with you. He has been bike to you during the pregnancy and after. And probably the reason for your AND and PND.

He just doesn't want another child in his life and gad managed to create a situation where he can leave you and his dd saying loud and clear 'it's not fault. She was abusive.'
Now tell me which parent would leave a relationship leaving their dd to someone they think is abusive and unable to care for her? Who on earth would say 'I don't want to see you therefore I will not see my dd either as I would have to talk to you too'. Certainly not a good and doting parent!

ThinkFirst Wed 29-Jan-14 14:02:50

Depression is no excuse for his behaviour.
He assaulted you and he assaulted your baby. You need to protect her. Neither of you deserve to be treated like that, under any circumstances.
Think about what would have happened if he'd managed to pick her up by her clothes, they rip because they're not designed to take the weight of a child like that, and she'd fallen and landed on her head. What father in his right mind would risk his precious child like that.

IrishBloodEnglishHeart Wed 29-Jan-14 14:05:05

He said that he doesn't want to have anything to do with me, so will reluctantly have to cut ties with her

He doesn't sound smitten with his daughter at all. He sounds like he can't wait to get away. Vile man.

I have had major depression and it has made be think and behave in many ways that I wouldn't if I were well, but it has never, ever made me aggressive or violent. Depression is not an excuse for his behaviour at all.

foolonthehill Wed 29-Jan-14 14:11:34

Report him and let him go, tell your family and lean on them, ask them to keep you strong.

he is vile and abusive and he has no reason to change.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 14:36:01

Thanks for your replies.

Sorry if I'm coming across as trying to defend him. I'm not trying to excuse his behaviour, nor am I saying depression has caused it. I'm just saying it is out of character for him.

I will always protect my daughter - her welfare is paramount. I know his ex and am positive that he wasn't abusive to her or their DCs.

He has said that he has never flipped like that and that I provoked him. I am no angel, am fiesty and opinionated, but I definitely dont deserve what has happened.

I know that he will want to see our DD, he will miss her terribly, as he has the other times he has left.

I dont want SS in our lives. I will always put my DDs needs and safety first, just as i did at the weekend. If I report to my GP, HV or counsellor, do they have a duty to inform SS?

Logg1e Wed 29-Jan-14 14:39:23

OP, He has said that he has never flipped like that and that I provoked him.

You do realise that the second part of that sentence is extremely worrying, don't you?

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 14:40:35

Yes Logg1e, I do. Itold him the same.

Do not be afraid of Social Services or any potential involvement; they do not come in and take children away willy nilly.

How else is he going to face the consequences of his actions if you were to decide not to report him out of some baseless supposition on your part that Social Services may become involved?. Such a stance helps no-one, least of all you and your DD.

All abusive men state that their victims provoked them or made them do it. He is really no different from any other abusive man, such inherently damaged men seem to have a script and follow it.

You may think he wants to see his DD but his behaviour shows otherwise.

Logg1e Wed 29-Jan-14 14:45:18

I'm sorry I can't answer your question about SS. I really don't know why they'd be interested unless they knew you weren't taking steps to protect your daughter from her father's behaviour.

(He sounds almost sadistic, very casual in his cruelty).

foolonthehill Wed 29-Jan-14 14:46:48

yes they do have a duty of care. but children's services will do nothing unless they feel you will not protect your daughter.

however I am concerned that you actually do not seem to be worried about the safety of your daughter...he is not a good dad, he is not really besotted with her, he pulled her off you when you were feeding care for her there; he went to pick her up by the scruff of her care or concern for her there, neck support anyone? he continued to try to pull your BABY away from you when she was upset and concern there; he hit you when you were holding his care or concern there, he could easily have punched her.

He may actually not see the DD as a real person, he is not treating her as such.

so his treatment of you is despicable but his treatment of his daughter is dangerous.

you need to report and you need support to make sure your daughter is safe when seeing her father.

Don't duck this one, you need to protect her, you need to put her first and above his feelings, depression, etc. If his behaviour was ok you would have nothing to fear from reporting, if you think it's a problem to report because SS will get involved in your life...then there is a problem with his behaviour.

^I will always put my DDs needs and safety first^ you need to live up to this.

Eatriskier Wed 29-Jan-14 14:57:52

You also realise that if it were you provoking him then that only excuses him hitting you (not that it does before anyone flames me) but does not explain how he has handled your DD?

Yes, SS may get involved but they don't want to remove children from loving protective homes - they would be more concerned it you did cover things like this up. To what extent they would get involved at this stage I don't know. They will however give you ideas on how to handle this man and any potential further contact with your DD.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 15:05:40

Ouch, Fool, at your concerns about me not protecting my daughter.

I told him to leave. He has left. I told him he could not see my daughter unsupervised and no way on earth will I allow that to happen. I haven't reported yet, but I know I will.

I don't know what more I can do.

OxfordBags Wed 29-Jan-14 15:28:51

OP, you say this was out of character for him, and this was a one-off, etc., but what you have described is a very obviously abusive man from the moment you got pg. Did you know that the majority of abuse starts when a woman gets pg, or just after she has given birth? Saying that you provoked him is classic abuser language. It is straight out of the drearily-predictable handbook these pathetic excuses for men all seem to have.

It goes without saying that is totally intrue that you provoked him. No normal, decent, non-abusive person would attack a woman holding a baby. As I said above, it is considered one of the most worrying red flags of abuse for professionals. It shows that he is prepared to go to any lengths to enjoy his power and abuse.

You say you think you had ante-natal depression because you weren't yourself. At the same time, you describe how he wanted you to abort, how he kept leaving you, calling you weird, fat and horrible things, keeping your feelings dangling, never knowing if he wanted you and the baby or not. Can you genuinely not see a corrolation between feeling depressed and being treated that appallingly?! You didn't suffer ante-natal depression, you were desperately unhappy because you were being mentally, emotionally and verbally abused, and he made your lifestyle and relationship unpredictable and unstable at a time in your life where you meed it to be as secure and easy as possible.

Then, you describe a man who has been really abusive and unpleasant to you ever since your DD was born. Abuse is not all about being hit. His abuse has been emotional and verbal and mental. Read any interview with women who have been physically abused in their relationship and they all too often say that the being hit was a relief of sorts, because it stopped his emotional abuse for a while. He has been abusing you for ages, and I bet if you talked about your relstionship with him before you got pg, it'd be clearly abusive then too.

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 15:32:44

If you dont want him to have unsupervised access, then your best bet is with social services - not avoid them.

They will help and support you. If you leave them out, then if he is going to take you to court it is then only your word against his. If you get SS and other means of support like GP, HV and police - then you have all the back up.

OxfordBags Wed 29-Jan-14 15:33:48

Above all, please get it out of your head that what you did was as bad as what he did, so you have no rights to complain or report him, etc. Flip it on its head and consider this - you would be failing as a mother to have NOT physically done something to stop him endangering and upsetting your baby! What sort of mother would just let a man pull her suckling baby off the breast and do nothing? Or let him try to pick her up by the scruff of her babygro? Or just sit there and let him punch her whilst she held her baby?

Also, all victims of abuse try to justify and minimise what has happened to them by saying they are feisty and hold their own, etc. It's classic denial rhetoric; because our society paints abuse victims as weak and weedy and passive, if you don't fit that category then that means he didn't abuse you, or that you somehow caused it, or you were as bad as him, etc. No, all untrue. He chose his behaviour. Studies show that abusers are far more likely to choose 'feisty' women, as breaking and controlling them provides more of a challenge.

Badvoc Wed 29-Jan-14 15:37:22

Your p is an abusive cunt.

evertonmint Wed 29-Jan-14 15:37:37

A friend was in a similar situation. DP attacked her at night while she was holding her very small baby. He is now her XP. It took her a while to get through it all (and this was without a supportive family - they wanted her to stay hmm) but she and her now 2yo are finally out the other side now and so much happier and settled. Please take that step and report him, as she did - that was the beginning of the end of an abusive relationship.

Best wishes to you and your DD.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 15:51:20

Wow, Oxford, that has really hit home. As hard as it is to come to terms with his treatment of me being abusive to that extent, what you have said is true. Thank you. I need to reflect on this.

Am I being stereotypical when I say that I don't think he realises just how abusive he is? And that if he did realise, he wouldn't do it?

Thank you too, Won't, I am seeing my GP on Friday and will talk to her about it.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 15:54:32

Thank you Everton for a positive story.

Badvoc - you made me smile

BigBoPeep Wed 29-Jan-14 15:55:11

This is awful, get out and be safe with your baby, there's no such thing as being obssessed with your baby - that's called being a mum, surely!? I know you shouldn't punch people, but on a biological level anyone who ripped my nursing child off my breast would be at risk! He is NOT a good dad, I hope you can sort this out OP sad

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 15:59:02

Yes. I still often wonder if he knows he was being abusive, or if it really wasnt his fault, somehow.
I kicked him out in november last year.

You will find your mind will bounce around all different reasons as to why he may have acted in the way he did. Trying to understand.
Just re-read the thread whenever you feel yourself needing a reminder. I dont know how often i had to read mine. I kept thinking i was to blame,when i had done nothing wrong.

Stay strong and get as much support as you can. thanks

Badvoc Wed 29-Jan-14 15:59:08

You deserve a smile sweetheart x
Seriously....get out.

MrsKent Wed 29-Jan-14 16:06:56

It sounds as if you didn't have a good relationship from the start and it got worse over time. In this onstance you both behaved badly. I am not sure who started first matters. Why the need to look for an aggressor or blame someone?

GimmeDaBoobehz Wed 29-Jan-14 16:14:01

It's definitely not you being abusive. He is using classic abuser lines and it sounds like he has been abusive all along, just not so upfront with his abuse.

The thing is if he cares about his daughter so much why would he attack her mother, no matter how angry he is? I've been infuriated beyond words but I know for a fact I would quell it if there was a child around, because I could accidently hurt them and would not be willing to risk that for anything.

Even so he was willing to pick up his daughter in an aggressive way and try and grab her. Is he showing any love or gentleness by doing this?

If he really thought you were a danger to your daughter, he would call the police and get them to take your daughter away if he didn't feel it was safe enough to attempt it himself but he didn't do that because he isn't worried about his child's safety and he wasn't concerned if he was going to hurt her.

Perhaps he will be gutted that he nearly hurt her after his rage but this doesn't change the fact he behaved that way. What if she would've fallen from his hands? What if he punched her instead of hitting at you?

If that would've happened, DD could've been taken into care because they wouldn't have thought her safe. It was a narrow escape there, it really was.

I don't blame you I blame him - but you need to make sure now she isn't on her own with her Dad and neither are you.

You also really need to report as a PP has said upthread the GP/SS/Police can work to help to make sure he doesn't get unsupervised access even if he asks for it.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 16:32:40

You are right, Gimme. Everything you have said is valid. Despite the fact he wouldnt intend to hurt DD, the reality is he could have. He has said since that his impatience and temper was with me, not DD, but that is irrelevant.
MrsKent - because I am concerned that his threats about reporting me would result in my DD being taken away if he is right and I am the aggressor!

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 16:37:45

If you report him to social services and express your corncerns they will help you.

They will assess you and give you support.
I am currently going through this myself and my ex threatened me with SS. I called them and asked for help.

They will not take your dd off of you.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 16:41:14

Thanks for the reassurance. Won't. It helps to know that someone is having a positive experience with SS. I have heard so many horror stories about their involvement.

I'm sorry you are in this situation - you sound so strong. I will look for your thread now.

wontletmesignin Wed 29-Jan-14 16:50:59

This is my second time with them, it was another DV situation last time.
I did physically attack that one in self defence. I even spent a night in the cells because of him.
So dont worry about one hit that you have used to protect yourself and your baby!

I still have all of my children. Social services couldnt have been any more helpful to me then, the same as they are now.

I try not to listen to the horror stories. Each has their own experience and handles things in their own way. They are nerve wracking, dont get me wrong. But very, very helpful. In my experience anyway.

Good luck finding my thread ha...i have so many hmm

Squitten Wed 29-Jan-14 16:51:21

I have a 2mth old daughter and reading about him pulling YOUR baby off the breast and lifting her by the scruff of her sleepsuit has really raised the hackles on MY neck! I can honestly say that if my beloved DH ever did those things to our baby (and he NEVER would - it's abhorrent!) I think my instinct would be to deck him!

Please, PLEASE protect your baby from him x

ZorbaTheHoarder Wed 29-Jan-14 16:56:11

I must have led a sheltered life, Dinkel, because I would never have imagined that a man would snatch a breastfeeding baby away from its mother.

He did that, knowing that you and the baby would be terrified - without any care for his own daughter's wellbeing - because he wanted to hurt you and put you in your place.

Please don't think of yourself as an aggressor for another moment. Any mother would do whatever it takes to defend their baby in that situation.

I second those posters who have pointed out that your depression, both before and after having your baby are almost inevitably due to the behavior of this disgusting individual, who treats you with nothing but contempt.

Please do whatever it takes to keep him away from you and your daughter.

foolonthehill Wed 29-Jan-14 18:47:34

WELL DONE....first steps always hardest.

be kind to yourself and your DD. I hope you will believe me when I say I would be very kind to you.

FWIW I have been there, and my children are still with me


OxfordBags Wed 29-Jan-14 18:50:31

Have you also considered the fact that the only time he's been physical with you (I'm presuming) is WHEN you are holding her and she is especially vulnerable, ie BFing, sleeping, etc.? What does that say about the sort of person he is?

You ask if he might know it's abuse or not - the answer doesn't matter. Whether it's intentional or not, it is still abuse and still hurting you and putting your child at risk. If he knows, he's a scumbag, and if it's unconscious, it means he is so deeply messed up that he is unfit to be in a relationship with anyone else until he completes extensive professional help. That help does not include you trying to help him.

AnyFucker Wed 29-Jan-14 19:00:34

I am struggling to understand that any man who would lift a baby like a fucking rat by the scruff of it's neck wouldn't understand that it could cause a serious injury. Brook no excuse that he was angry at you, not her, he could have killed a tiny baby

I really hope that this time youw ill not take him back. Unfortunately, your relationship appears to have been one of a pattern of on/off so far, so you are going to have to change your mindset most profoundly to not get sucked in by this abuser again. Your defence of him here is worrying. Your irrational fear of Social Services and willingness to listen to his empty threats is worrying.

Please contact your health visitor and/or SS yourself and ask for their assistance. Also speak to Women's Aid and find out when there is a Freedom Programme in your area.

I am afraid you are more likely to attract the negative attention of professionals if you do not get this man out of your life right now before it escalates any further. What would you have said at A+E if your dd had been injured in the course of the physical fight between you two ?

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 19:35:45

Oxford - thanks, a wise post again. He had never been physical with me before this weekend. I hadn't seen any hint of a violent streak in him before. But it has happened, and he has to face up to the consequences. As do I.

Any - I am not trying to defend him, I know that what happened is despicable. I have said that I will speak to my GP on Friday. He will not be seeing my daughter unsupervised, if at all. I have read many threads on here and other sites where posters wish they hadn't involved Social Services. That, and my ex saying the fact I have PND and am undergoing CBT will help his case as far as SS is concerned, made me hesitant in involving authorities.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 19:45:09

I have just tried calling WA, but it was voice mail. Will try again tomorrow.

AnyFucker Wed 29-Jan-14 19:52:31

No, a woman suffering from PND but seeking help and removing an abusive man from their life will not work against against you with "the authorities"

AnyFucker Wed 29-Jan-14 19:59:35

If you leave a voice mail, they will get back to you, love. Or you can email them.

annielouisa Wed 29-Jan-14 20:04:19

Please get help from WA and put aside the thought that this abusive man does not know what he is doing, he does! I think it is unlikely that there was not some form of abuse in his former marriage because his DC took your side and were deserate to apologise to you.

Find out through WA about doing the Freedom Programme and I think you will see how awful this man really is and how he has tried wear you down.

Kleptronic Wed 29-Jan-14 20:21:59

You have defended your baby and removed the aggressor and that is magnificent, it must have been unbearably so hard for you, but you did it.

If you don't report this crime you will not be able to prevent him having unsupervised access to your baby in the future. This is the next step you need to take to protect your baby.

Child protection means exactly what you've done, making the baby safe, and they will look at the child's safety and how you're coping, nothing more. You've made her safe so you've nothing to worry about there. You have acted bravely and responsibly which is totally dealing with it, as is reporting. Gird yourself lovely, there's more to be done, but you will come through it with your DD safe and with you.

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 20:55:18

Thank you, Kleptronic, I needed to 'hear' that.

Kleptronic Wed 29-Jan-14 21:05:37

All true, and all power to you Dinkel, you have been dealing with extremely horrible, dangerous, frightening circumstances. You can do this, keep you and her safe, now and in the future, report these crimes. [hug]

Dinkel Wed 29-Jan-14 21:10:55

I will always keep her safe. She's my everything. Thanks again.

AnUnearthlyChild Wed 29-Jan-14 21:22:31

You have defended your baby and removed the aggressor and that is magnificent

I agree with kleptronic, so I'll say it again for you smile

As has been said many times before on here, the benchmark of acceptable behaviour is 'what if a stranger walked in a n did what he just did 'would that be ok? Would a court look unfavourably on a breast feeding mum defending her baby that just had been grabbed?

Can you imagine the headlines?

You are NOT an aggressor. It is abusive fuckwit 101. Drearily predictable.

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