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Sex... Again

(77 Posts)
Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 01:33:34

Have got myself into a silly situation... Again... <head desk>

New bf... The one who can be flakey and immature... <yes I know although he has been a bit better recently>

Been doing BDSM, he is mostly the submissive ATM.

Was initially reluctant to play dom but found I enjoyed and was good at it. Have discussed with him previously that my ability/desire to be cruel comes from having been abused by men and is directly tapping into those (well repressed) feelings of hate.

He initially found this exciting. I know... He's quite immature, the relationship is not particularly serious. I felt this was better than freaking out, we discussed it...

I have discovered he is not particularly good at knowing what he is comfortable with though. He wants me to be ever increasingly cruel, which I am. He usually is very excited by this.

However, the other night I broke him... Literally... When he said the safety word, we were doing something he decided he wanted as a reward, it was ill advised in my view, but he was insistent without really thinking/knowing about what it would be like/listening to me about necessary preparation. I did stop immediately when he pretty much inevitably didn't like it, but felt utter contempt and full of hate for him and found it very hard to mellow and become sympathetic and comforting.

He was extremely emotional for a good hour after but said he was excited by it the day after so confident I haven't hurt him. What I'm concerned about is how it made me feel and where those feelings were coming from - pure hate and contempt, thinking 'you utter privileged weakling to get to say no and not endure the pain and humiliation your kind has heaped on me.'

We talked about it and thought we should back pedal to just having normal sex, he suggested I should speak to rape crisis about my repressed hate. But this whole thing now feels quite fucked up.

Maybe it is. But I don't feel interested in 'normal sex'. It's like I need it to be painful and cruel in some way for me to be interested.

I haven't name changed which is perhaps unwise but I don't like to. I'd appreciate it if you could be a little kind, even if you tell me the obvious, and help me work out what is going on and how to fix myself... Is it the relationship or is it me or both?

Tonandfeather Mon 13-Jan-14 01:45:31

It is you.

But you need to get out of this relationship as it's likely to damage you both further.

Go get some help.

I'd stay off here too.

I'm not sure you can help others in their relationships when you're unwell and need help. That's maybe the responsible thing to do.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 07:08:04

I see.

I don't agree that I'm 'unwell' tbh. I have a specific problem with some repressed hurt which only comes out when I'm encouraged to be deliberately cruel so I think saying I'm unwell is a bit excessive.

What sort of help did you mean?

CajaDeLaMemoria Mon 13-Jan-14 07:57:04

This kind of thing never goes well. There's a reason all the guidance tells you to be in a loving relationship.

You aren't letting out the hurt in a meaningful way. It might feel good at the time, but it isn't productive to healing. You are also using him to release the anger, and as time goes on, you'll find it harder and harder both to give him up and to stop when he wants you too. Especially if he encourages you.

He sounds like he's desperate to impress you, and he may well have issues himself. This won't help either of you. It also won't end well.

Counselling will help, but it'll be painful and if you wanted to take that route, you'd presumably have already done it. So that leaves finding a healthy way to deal with this yourself. It's not this, though.

poopooheadwillyfatface Mon 13-Jan-14 08:04:10

Something about this situation brings to mind a vulnerable teenager getting mixed up in dangerous things beyond what they can cope with, in an effort to regain some self esteem and feel in control of their life and feelings.
I know you are not but i suspect the underlying wish to punish yourself, make yourself needed, use the dom thing as a way to establish your identity is similar. Any thoughts?
btw I think it's kind of good you didn't nc as we know you and it would sound iffy from a new postersmile

FolkGirl Mon 13-Jan-14 08:05:17

Hi offred. I don't agree that you're 'unwell' as such, but you clearly have some unresolved issues, and serious ones at that.

I don't wish to speak for anyone else, but I was also a little surprised to read this. I think the issue with advising on here is that when people are in a vulnerable position and seeking support on here, they can latch onto the advice that is given (rightly or wrongly, given the MNHQ disclaimer about people not being experts) and make decisions that impact on their whole lives on the basis of it.

Posters might believe that they are being advised from a position of personal awareness or wisdom and might now feel that they have been advised by someone who has a particular axe to grind against men.

I don't know what the solution for you personally is, but I would agree that this current relationship is not it.

Have you considered counselling?

Yes it's fucked up and you really shouldn't be using your romantic or sexual relationships to play out your feelings about men. If you can't respect and value your partner then sex/love is out of the question and it sounds like you aren't in a place to respect and value any man.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:08:15

I have had counselling and am having CBT ATM for anxiety.

Usually I am the sub 'twas him who was keen on switching and for a long time I was unsure about it so not sure about the keen to impress me. Perhaps a misunderstanding of BDSM there? The sub is usually the one in control.

I wouldn't say the relationship is not a loving one either tbh. Being into BDSM doesn't mean you don't love or care for your partner.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:12:44

Y eririkur - that's it. I felt shocked by myself when that came out. It is not something that is usually in my feelings or relationships, although I have been aware since he wanted to switch that those feelings enables me to be cruel but the level of it shocked me.

Folk girl - that's sort of the point in not NC really.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:26:06

Poopoo - I do wonder about that. The last BDSM relationship I had was with my first bf at 16.

I was raped at 17, 19 and 21. It is difficult to separate which way round things are.

I feel as though it is just what I am into. Usually I feel good and it is not about harming anyone, myself or my partner, although it may be about control. Control is what I have issues/anxiety with in other aspects of my life and what the CBT is dealing with.

mcmoonfucker Mon 13-Jan-14 08:26:30

I had similar last year offred. Guy wanted me to "fuck him up" shock
I decided that because I was totally up for it with similar feelings of "yeah you can take one for the boys then twat" that I didn't like, I walked away. I realised I really wanted kind and gentle and that was going down a dangerous road of high adrenaline, high emotion and crazy chaos I just didn't want.
Also it's all fake power anyway, as you found out ��

I'm not a big fan of BDSM as a concept though I appreciate each to their own. I always worry when I read/ hear about abuse survivors into BDSM because it's just so blurred and I don't know how emotionally safe it is. I think you should probably have a think about whether being a dom is right for you.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:34:36

BDSM relationships in fact often require a much higher degree of attention, trust, care and respect. And self awareness/boundary setting. I think it's clear that I should not be playing the dom role if we do BDSM at all as I'm not capable of being cruel without trying to access and use those feelings.

I think, although can see how the post comes across in that way, it's not accurate to say that day to day I'm incapable of loving or respecting men and it's not something people who know me would relate to.

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 08:36:28

I feel concerned for your partner, as you describe him as immature and there's also a chance that the relationship could be more serious (and loving) for him. When I was young (i.e. immature) and having my first sexual experiences I can well imagine wanting to please my partner and feel pressured to try things I wouldn't otherwise.
Am I right in guessing that the "treat" for him, was anal sex (with him receiving)?

Secondly, I'm concerned for you. You, like me, are often on here giving advice. I think people might bring this up in future in other threads because they feel it is relevant to the advice you are offering someone seeking advice.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:37:44

X post

Yes it is not emotionally safe, I'm aware of that. It has been enjoyable so far, although he's very keen to be entirely submissive, he'll not have a problem if I say I don't want to be dom anymore. He was quite concerned and supportive when I was upset with myself the other day.

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 08:38:06

(I would love to watch the same discussion play out if it the sexes were reversed here).

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 08:41:14

I think you need professional help. I'm not saying that in a dismissive, offensive way. I think there's so much hurt here and potential for further hurt, that these feelings need addressing by someone with real expertise.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:46:55

Logg1e it is definitely not me pressurising him, if anything tis very much the other way round as he is naturally extremely sub. I was initially dead set against being dom, have gradually been convinced to try it, been pushed further into it by him being so so keen and excited, sometimes he begs for things, follows me round pestering. The immature bit was concerning me because I think he's not really aware what he's asking me to do and he's not got a good sense of what he'll enjoy and what he won't which is no good if you're sub.

Last time we did this particular thing he enjoyed it, which was why he wanted it again, but that was because I insisted on doing things to work up to it which he resolutely didn't want this time. I suppose that's partly why I feel it is not that I'm incapable of being loving. It is like mcmoonfucker said - he wants to push me which is understandable to a certain extent with a sub.

I don't mind if people bring it up on other threads tbh. Feel perfectly capable of dealing with that.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:54:20

He wanted to push it until he found his limit I think. Was happy until he found out how it made me feel.

KissesBreakingWave Mon 13-Jan-14 08:54:24

You've let your sub top from the bottom (as the more immature and therefore bratty ones often do) and push you into a place where you can't safely go. It's a mistake, and from the sounds, one you won't repeat again. I've been there and done that myself; the relationship survived because as with all BDSM there was much communication after and I explained how and why I was triggered by it.

+1 to the suggestion you get some help with the feelings it stirred up.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:55:29

Y that makes a lot of sense.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:56:27

Tis me who has the problem with it not him. It isn't something I can safely do yes.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 08:57:55

I mean emotionally.

Agree wholeheartedly with kisses. If it's something you're not wholly comfortable with, 'tis never going to end well. But I so admire your honesty in coming out with this w/o a NC. BDSM relationships are so misunderstood.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:05:08

Kisses - I agree I might need help with the feelings it stirred up but unsure where I might be able to get that?

KissesBreakingWave Mon 13-Jan-14 09:11:07

BDSM relationships are so misunderstood.

In all fairness they are easy to misunderstand. I mean, I regularly leave bruises on my GF when she's been A Very Naughty Girl. Without context, it'd look like abuse. In context, she's a masochist and goes into an ecstatic state when restrained and administered pain. Loves it. And because it's risky play with deep emotional connection, we have to talk openly and in great detail to each other about our feelings and so on.

KissesBreakingWave Mon 13-Jan-14 09:12:05

I'd start with asking your GP for a referral for a mental health assessment of some kind.

Yup, kisses agree with you there, easy to misconstrue.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:17:57

I've been recently referred for a MH assessment with anxiety related to the abuse. They referred to cbt, the therapist diagnosed generalised anxiety disorder and is working on anxiety related to fear of uncertainty and loss of control. Not sure if I should just bring it up there? I don't think I can go back and ask for a separate referral or if the general NHS counselling would be appropriate?

Brittapie Mon 13-Jan-14 09:22:46

You're not on my...side of things so I don't really have the experience to offer advice there. Although I suppose from this side what I can say is it is really really good that you are discussing and examining it, both with him and by yourself. This is good behaviour. grin

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:27:37

Ha ha! Very diplomatic brittapie!

Brittapie Mon 13-Jan-14 09:32:40

And I would recommend holding back on mentioning the BDSM, or maybe the more, I dunno, organised bit of it. Maybe just talk about "rough sex".

People are weird, they don't understand things outside of their own desires and experiences.

tinselkitty Mon 13-Jan-14 09:37:29

You need to seek counselling/therapy to deal with those feeling of hatred.

Victims of abuse can get into funny situations sexually because the boundaries were blurred so early on (I speak as a survivor) I also have issues with hatred although these are aimed at myself. My issues revolve around being objectified and secrecy.

It needs dealing with otherwise it seeps into other areas of your life, trust me, I'm struggling with it now!

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:42:17

I don't know. I deliberately asked this in the context of a general board and under my own name because I felt it would be helpful to me in understanding my feelings to have a general reaction. Tis important to be confronted with accusations that I might be abusing him or that I have a general hate for men because I think I'm able to think about that quite objectively and decide whether it is a reasonable thing to suggest rather than just thinking about it in my own mind by myself.

It has been helpful therefore to me to write this post in that I feel able to decide I'm not generally manhating scum, that I need to be clear with him that we need to stop this and also talk about kisses' very perceptive comment that he is topping from the bottom, which admittedly is also something I can do. Also that I may need to find an outlet to explore the extent of any repressed hurt I have. I had to squash a lot of it down because xp took me to court for contact (lasted 3 years) and so I couldn't really outwardly acknowledge the pain and had to squash it in order to be calm, controlled and reasonable in court to protect dc. Have had some counselling since but perhaps not enough.

WalkingWithAGhost Mon 13-Jan-14 09:44:13

I don't think it is all that surprising that these feelings come over you in that particular situation given your circumstance. It is kind of pushing to an area that would trigger you (I don't mean the BDSM as a whole, just this particular circumstance within it). As a fan of BDSM , in my experience it is the most caring and trusting place I can be, how can it not be by virtue of what it is? I think that by putting yourself into an area where it has triggered UNcaring thoughts you have just identified something that you probably do need to work through in your own mind before continuing, particularly with someone who is unsure of his own boundaries. I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with you.
As an aside, I am new to the boards (and have NC'd already!) but you gave me some advice the other day and I found your responses very considered and helpful. I don't think you came across as having issues with men, you came across as being a very strong individual who knows her own mind. It is absolutely the responsibility of the poster to consider all opinions within their own set of circumstances.Perhaps if one is not mature enough to take all answers knowing that the people on the other end of them can never know the full story and you can never know theirs then they are not in the right place?

tinselkitty Mon 13-Jan-14 09:46:00

I also started the road with CBT for anxiety, it didn't help a huge amount and opened a can of worms. I'm glad it did tbh but if I were you I'd be prepared for seeking 1:1 therapy

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:47:02

Tinsel - yes I have a big issue with being objectified which has led to me not liking to be looked at all or found attractive in any way.

In the past I have been more inclined to seek being hurt myself although not through BDSM and not in this relationship. Is complicated because physical pain is something I enjoy but have had a complicated relationship with always - self harm etc.

But yes, can see these are things which need professional expertise rather than MN. Although I'd prefer to be honest and therefore get proper relevant help even if it means people misunderstanding some of the dynamics - there is always the possibility it is me who is misunderstanding and outside perspective can help me see that sometimes.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 13-Jan-14 09:53:08

Offred are there any specialist sex abuse/rape counseling services where you live? I think you may find a psychosexual counsellor or agency specializing in sexual abuse quicker to help you deal with the aftermath of your rape trauma than a more general counsellor.

And kudos for not NCing.smile

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:54:11

Maybe I should look into paying for some 1:1.

The CBT has been helpful with the anxiety so far and also helping me understand where I'm going wrong with trying to deal with it myself but have been told it will likely get difficult as that is to a certain extent the point.

Thanks walking that's kind of you to say.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 09:55:53

There is a local rape counselling service I have used before yes, although their resources are quite stretched. I felt under pressure to get over it last time I used them. I think probably private counselling may be better. You think psychosexual?

BonesAndSkully Mon 13-Jan-14 09:59:52

i think the best thing you can do is find another D/s couple who've been involved for quite a long time as a loving couple and see what they think.

D/s relationships need so much to be built on love and trust, and if being D means you're tapping into emotions you can't trust, then it might be better off keeping the lid on that pandoras box until you can talk them through with someone.

tinselkitty Mon 13-Jan-14 10:26:17

Yep I'd pay private for psychosexual or holistic (not hippy holistic but person centred) therapy. They'll be no pressure to finish up although it might cost a fair bit it's a pretty good investment.

They know the right questions to ask but definitely be as open and honest as you can. I started mine with a matter of fact 'these are my issues'

Saying that although I've dealt with the abuse etc I've still not fully dealt with the impact on me in the sense that I need to feel objectified by someone which means I put myself in stupid situations. It's a long road I guess!

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 10:32:18

Certainly is a long road yes. I've looked up psychosexual in my area. Seems to be cbt based. Will look up person centred and talk to my friend who does it for advice.

JaceyBee Mon 13-Jan-14 12:00:47

Offred - sorry you're going through such a difficult and confusing time. I've always enjoyed your posts on here

I would maybe not bring this into your current therapy and finish the CBT as it is for now, unless you've only just started? And if you are in a position to, see a psychosexual therapist afterwards. Sex therapy is often quite behavioural if the problem calls for it but not always, and they will have a much better understanding of the bdsm lifestyle than an NHS counsellor who may or may not have had much experience of it before

JaceyBee Mon 13-Jan-14 12:01:42

Oh and I think integrative is generally the way forward in terms of approaches. But then I would! smile

Leavenheath Mon 13-Jan-14 13:08:16

Offred I imagine a couple of the reasons you didn't name change was because you wanted to hear from a wide cross section of people who've seen your posts and to gain a wide range of views from people following lots of different lifestyles.

So although I have significant reservations about BDSM relationships legitimising violence and sometimes being used by people acting out their emotional hurt and hatred under the umbrella of consent, my disclaimer is that I've never been in a BDSM relationship myself.

So I won't talk about something I don't know enough about and instead tell you what I see.

I've been on Mumsnet for years and I used to sigh with relief if I saw a post from you, especially if others were telling some poor woman she had to suck up crap behaviour from some bloke because that's what women do.

Now when I see a post from you, I don't feel like that anymore, even if my initial unease turns out to be ill-founded and your advice is warm and sensible like it always used to be.

I was thinking about this after a thread the other day where I think for the first time ever, we locked horns.

I think my unease is to do with your listening and boundaries.

I've seen you projecting quite a bit, regardless of what the OP is saying and even when your posts are unwelcome to the OP and are making her feel worse, you just won't back off even when she asks you to.

So I'm wondering whether your boundaries have become very skewed by your experiences- and whether your understandable preoccupation with what's been going on in your life is affecting your experience here and others experience of you?

I think you need some specialist help and others are better placed to advise on that, but I didn't think it was a bad suggestion upthread to step away from here for a while. I'm not sure it's helping you or everyone you respond to, right now.

If this feels too personal and close to the bone, I'm sorry. Although I admit I've been frustrated with you lately on here, I think you're one of Mumsnet's good eggs who's had a rough deal in life and you've got good motives.

DizzyGoat Mon 13-Jan-14 14:05:02

Years ago I was in a BDSM relationship as the Dom. (Long term relationship, lived together). It did not awaken any repressed hatred in me, possibly because the worst things that had happened to me in my teens was emotional abuse and bullying, no physical or sexual abuse.

I found the only thing that reset my perspectives and allowed me to enjoy consider normal sex again was several years of celibacy following two miserable rebound relationships.

But OP, be grateful this has made you see you could be helped by counselling. I always say no experience is good or bad, its all experience.

Lucylloyd13 Mon 13-Jan-14 14:51:24

This is all about comunication isn't it?

It's ok for you both to explore, and for you to explore didfferent sides of your psyches at the same time. So long as both consent it is cool.

Where this leads you is another matter.

Xmusician Mon 13-Jan-14 16:42:39

I have never been able to consider switching but have friends who can. I think the consent issues that are a vital ingredient of BDSM need defining between the two of you. As a Dom I recognise that the needs of the sub are placed above my own.....in many ways I can be a catalyst that simply makes the desires real....I wonder if switching for you simply opens up a personae that does not satisfy you. I hope you find the resolution that is right for you both. I also think it is very brave to open up conversations about BDSM which I realise for some are disturbing. I believe some of the very mature advice in other responses for this thread are well thought out and sincere.

Jaffacakesallround Mon 13-Jan-14 16:59:31

I think it is very dangerous for anyone ( including myself) who is not an expert to really advise here.

But without being an expert and not being able to say I'm acquainted with you Offred via your previous posts here, all I can say is that your first post here made for uncomfortable reading.

I feel uncomfortable because it is clear you derived a lot of satisfaction- call is sexual or emotional or both- from hurting another person ( even if they did consent- but then you've said he is weak and immature anyway..)

As this satisfaction comes from previous abuse you have suffered and you are now inflicting pain on another person, then that to me screams ' You need psychiatric help'.

If you had written this as a man hurting a woman there would be a huge outcry.

I don't see this as any different and you- and your bf- are in a dangerous place.

I think you should hot foot it to your GP and ask for help - and be really honest. There is a lot of help out there for people who have been abused, so find it.

Jaffacakesallround Mon 13-Jan-14 17:03:21

This is the sort of place you need for psychosexual counselling - mainstream , qualified and expert help.

Albany Trust

spindlyspindler Mon 13-Jan-14 17:36:44

Isn't the BDSM context a bit of a red herring? This is a consent issue. You're right to have recognised that feeling hatred and contempt towards your partner when they exercise their right to withdraw consent is a red flag, regardless of the context.

I'm not sure where you go to for help in this but psychosexual counselling must be the starting point?

salisburysteak Mon 13-Jan-14 17:52:58

I think you are being too hard on yourself. You did what he asked and u did stop when he asked. If it was me the anger and cruelty would be the resentment of him topping from the bottom. He is meant to be doing what u want submissive but basically he is playing at that but really he is control telling u how to dominate him basically another man controlling the sex. Maybe not maybe I'm projecting. But if you just stop doing it and realise its triggering I don't know what harm has beeen done. It seems like it gave u a horrifying insight into how powerful abusive men feel and how gratifying it is and this would be upsetting to suddenly find youself on the other side. But he asked u to do it. So don't be so hard on yourself

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 19:05:43

Jaffa - that is really what sadomasochism is.

Although I think it is a valid opinion to feel all BDSM is therefore wrong. I'm not sure it follows that people who enjoy BDSM need help.

Leavenheath - it doesn't cut close to the bone. I remember the threads you mention and I was equally disappointed to find we disagreed but I stand by what I said on them - that I'm not projecting.

Apart from anything else those threads predate this incident and therefore issue and I understand the temptation to make the BDSM stuff into a Big Thing, but tis this one thing within it which has upset me and I agree I've got thinking to do and would maybe benefit from some therapy but I think the 'psychiatric help' and the extrapolating is not on the money.

One in particular thread was exceptionally worrying and I made a decision that it was better to challenge the potential victim blaming than simply agree with the op. That turned out to be exceptionally strange and I had a look at the forum the husband posted from and it did not do much to dispel my concerns tbh.

Although I probably agree that I've been more short tempered over Christmas and said as much on another thread, it's nothing to do with abuse or my sex life, Christmas was difficult to negotiate with xh and my ridiculous family.

I don't think I need to take a break from anything in particular, maybe uni which is intense being that I'm studying equivalent of full time until april, although I probably will be posting less here as have assignments due etc MN always goes like this for me anyway; I post loads then fall out with it and go away for a while. Really don't think I've changed much in that regard, been on about 5 years.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 19:09:18

Oh and would like to clarify it is definitely not something I am choosing and pressuring him into or that he'd feel would impress me. He's spent a long time convincing me about it and if anything I've felt under pressure.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 19:12:19

Xmusician - that's helpful.

Yes, I think we do need to talk about the consent. As it stands he has got out of it what he intended and wanted and it has pushed me further than I want. Which is no good.

Jaffacakesallround Mon 13-Jan-14 19:30:01

If what you posted is 'what SD is all about' why on earth did you post asking for advice?

I am sure there are degree of SM and you clearly felt you had overstepped some mark.

Your last post seems to say that everything's fine.

I'm confused.

ALittleStranger Mon 13-Jan-14 19:35:00

Offred you do seem to have minimised throughout the day. You started being shaken, then everything was fine, and now it's his fault. It doesn't sound like you are independently getting to grips with what went on, which is why I agree talking to someone would be helpful.

Leavenheath Mon 13-Jan-14 19:55:00

Oh I didn't mean the latest stuff Offred. You've been going through a marriage break-up for the last few months haven't you? I'm thinking of months, not weeks when I referred to the sinking feeling.

Anyway, I've said my piece and it's up to you what you do with just one person's observations. I wish you peace.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:02:55

I'm still concerned about the actual incident although feel I've taken some helpful insights and ways forward from this thread. I'm not saying it is his fault either. Why do people always have to attribute blame? I'm simply trying to correct certain posters who are reading into the situation that I'm driving me being the dom and pressurising him into it or he is somehow doing it to please me which is simply not the case and is actually massively important and relevant. He hasn't got a problem with this, he enjoyed it, I didn't.

That clarification of something not apparently asserted strongly enough in the op actually has no effect on how I feel about the actual specific thing that happened either. I have not ever been shaken to the core and in need of urgent medical intervention as some posters have implied. I was concerned with myself.

I've also said repeatedly I agree with the suggestion that it would be helpful to have some therapy and asked other posters for some advice about what kind, looked into it myself but didn't realise I'd be required to post about that particularly and decided I agreed that it would be better to finish the current round of cbt first which is sensible advice.

The marriage breakup, if you'd like to get technical, had been going on for at least a year by the time the relationship finished in sept. I don't think in spirit I've been any different to usual on here even if I've been different in manner. But people change. I'm certain my manner has changed anyway, but it's not because I'm struggling emotionally, tis because I've become leases cowed as a person recently.

But it is all quite non-specific these accusations and where there's stuff it's based on - like I'm somehow pressuring him into something he wants to do to please me, the stuff is just factually incorrect. 'Twas not me who suggested it, he is and always was happy with it. I'm not. Although can see if you don't understand BDSM and someone therefore being happy with being broken then that's the logical assumption to make.

With BDSM of course there are elements of SM and also of submission which obviously can come across as wanting to please. Kisses correctly identified IMO, understanding BDSM herself, that the issue is he's topping from the bottom and I'm not safe being the dom because of unresolved things which need to be worked on.

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 21:10:16

I don't think people are concerned about you forcing him to do something. I, personally, am concerned that after something happened which hurt him, he immediately regretted and was upset about for some time afterwards you felt nothing but hate and disgust. This is not ok in a relationship which is supposed to be trusting and respectful and fun (if not loving and compassionate).

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:16:58

Y, that's what I personally was concerned with and the reason I posted. Not something I've ever denied or needed to be made to acknowledge because it is the very reason for the post. I'm aware of all that and was aware of it at the time I had the feelings too. He was not left uncomforted or unloved or hurt because I, being aware and shocked, was comforting and loving towards him.

But other posters have stated they are concerned he's being pressured and trying to please.

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 21:22:36

Were you immediately comforting and loving towards him or did you find it "very hard to mellow and become sympathetic and comforting" towards him?

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:27:57

Like I said I stopped immediately and I found it hard to mellow and become comforting. I did not say anywhere that I treated him with disgust.

Do you not think he might have had a problem with it if I'd behaved contemptuously towards him when he felt vulnerable?

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:29:06

But yes, ok point taken about the wording.

I'm not shocked about my behaviour, simply about the feelings the experience provoked. To clarify.

Logg1e Mon 13-Jan-14 21:32:34

I think most people would be aware if the other person felt irritable towards them, never mind disgust and hatred, and especially if they had an intimate relationship. So, yes, I think he has a problem.

nickymanchester Mon 13-Jan-14 21:34:07

Kisses correctly identified IMO, understanding BDSM herself, that the issue is he's topping from the bottom and I'm not safe being the dom because of unresolved things which need to be worked on

Having read the thread, I think that I might agree with you.

Two close friends of mine - ok, I know this is a cliche, but in this case it really IS close friends and NOT me - are involved in BDSM, although they are quite a bit older than I think you might be. One is really very experienced and she has mentioned to me before about ''topping from the bottom'' and how she can't be doing with it all. The other mentioned that she was sort of pressurised into being a dom - she'd never had any involvement before at all with BDSM - and had many of the same feelings that you've expressed here.

The more experienced one is very very careful indeed about who she gets involved with now and my other friend has had a lot very very long talks with her dh - it was him that was pushing her to get into this - she is more able to cope with this.

Just as an aside, and I would genuinely be interested in your experience as well. Both my friends said that they really didn't want any penetration, or PIV sex after they had dommed (sp?) their partners. Is this common? I would be interested to know what other women think

PurpleSprout Mon 13-Jan-14 21:34:43

You might want to look into a kink friendly counsellor? I've never had cause to use one, but I know they do exist.

This doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. He wants something you can't or are uncomfortable giving him. He's trying to blur your boundaries sexually (deliberately or otherwise) and neither of you are enjoying it. You are not able to say no to him in a situation where you are primarily responsible for his welfare. Not good all round.

I can see why you would want to go vanilla for a while. From the sounds of it, you have more you need to work through than prioritising how to be a better Dom and both you and your DP need to recognise this.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:37:24

Well all I can say is he wasn't aware, or said he wasn't aware, until I spoke to him about it the day after. At which point he was concerned, that "it was no good if it made you feel that way" and made some suggestions about talking it through with a counsellor and said we should not do it again. Although he's not actually wanted to stop in practice and is continuing to ask for more of the same. Although I have said no each time:

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:40:08

Nicky - I think the PIV thing can happen if you feel your partner has been emasculated by being dominated maybe. It's not something I have experienced though and don't know any other BDSM couples.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:43:06

I don't think he's deliberately trying to blur my boundaries, it could equally be my failure to adequately maintain them too to be fair. It is correct that this is something which has crossed a boundary of mine. I've not had a problem with refusing to do it when he's asked since. I think we do need to have a further talk about it so he understands better maybe.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:45:06

And yes I have no wish to be a better dom. Or particularly to be a dom at all after this. Gave it a try, some of it was fun but it isn't safe for me so that's that.

Joysmum Mon 13-Jan-14 21:51:07

Non-vanilla I think is potentially very damaging in all but the most stable and comfortable of relationships. I'd did trust anyone except my hubby. Also, you won't know unless you try but if you are going to try, think in terms of baby steps, of exploring your boundaries rather than smashing through them.

Also, I'm a firm believer that whilst BDSM is a great addition to the sex lives of those who like it, it's just another strand to the sex life and not the majority of it.

PurpleSprout Mon 13-Jan-14 21:53:57

And yes I have no wish to be a better dom. Or particularly to be a dom at all after this. Gave it a try, some of it was fun but it isn't safe for me so that's that.

Reckon that's what you need to tell him then. It's causing you nothing but grief and if it's a deal breaker, best find out early.

Offred Mon 13-Jan-14 21:56:27

Indeed Purplesprout. Need to talk to him about this topping from the bottom and how important it is to him that I am dom. Have found some good reading on it so that helps.

PurpleSprout Mon 13-Jan-14 21:58:12

Best wishes Offred - hope the reading & subsequent conversation goes well.

lookatmybutt Mon 13-Jan-14 23:28:48

I'm not much help, because I'm a sub... but

If it is far too triggering for you, maybe it's best if you set aside the dom stuff for a bit. I do know a few doms who had to call it a day (and even get divorced) precisely for the same reasons you think you should - I think this sub is asking too much of you and it's taking too much out of you. You're also (understandably) worried about the impact of your own responses on the sub.

I still think it would be helpful to seek out a kink friendly councellor - unfortunately I have no connections anymore so can't think of anyone specifically, but I know that Relate used to be good at helping to iron out any problems in the bedroom department. It may be a good idea, just as insurance for the future and to help with your anger problems.

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