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Tell me about emotional affairs...

(135 Posts)
Livingthedaydream Sat 11-Jan-14 18:10:17

Regular but NC'd.

Why do they start?
Where do they go?
How do they end?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 11-Jan-14 18:34:19

Often starts as a friendship. They go 'too far'... in that the person conducting the affair forms a more intimate connection with their friend than with their partner, often neglecting their partner in the process. How do they end? How long is a piece of string? One or other decide to drop contact.

LadyMud Sat 11-Jan-14 20:45:20

"a more intimate connection with their friend than with their partner"
Hmmm, not sure about that, Cogito. Lots of women are closer to their best friend than to their partner!

I think secrecy is an essential element of an EA.

noisytoys Sat 11-Jan-14 22:18:12

DH had an emotional affair. He lied about seeing her, stayed up all night to talk to her online etc. I left him. He mentally checked out of the marriage during that time too sad

Gomez Sat 11-Jan-14 23:22:12

So an EA led to the end of my marriage. After 2 years of fucking unhappiness all round. Would have been better if the involved partner had actually had the courage to recognise the EA for what it was and leave the marriage to see if the connection was real. Because either way the original relationship was doomed.

Mrscaindingle Sun 12-Jan-14 07:50:38

My marriage also ended because of my ex's emotional affair with someone who is now his GF, to this day he still says he did nothing wrong. Twat.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 10:27:29

So i am in an EA. He is a work colleague, married with kids. I have a partner who I live with.
I love it though, love the attention, the talks, the secrecy etc etc I dont want it to stop. I am not stupid enough to think he will leave his wife.
I realise I need to address the issues I have with my partner, obviously something is wrong for me to place my attention elsewhere.
Dont know what to do. We constantly think about each other, if we don't hear from one another we are love sick.
He has said he is not happy in his marriage, dull homelife, nothing in common, living as friends.

ThePearShapedToad Sun 12-Jan-14 10:30:51

No flaming

If he's not happy at home op he should leave his wife and start proceedings for an amicable divorce

If he loved you as he says he does, then why would he want to treat you as a second class citizen?

Believe me, you're not held in as high esteem as he is to you

I'm sorry though. It hurts to buggery

You need to sort out your relationship, and you cannot do that whilst you are emotionally involved with someone else

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 10:34:06

You've realised that what you are doing is a threat to your marriage.

And it is possible that you have realised this before critical damage has been done. It's terribly exciting to have your head full of a crush, but it is not real

If your genuine priority is your family, then you have to step away now.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 10:37:29

He has said he is not happy in his marriage, dull homelife, nothing in common, living as friends.

This is classic pre-shag preparation.

He wants to have sex with you, keep it secret from his wife, stay in his lovely marriage where he has a family, and all the comforts of home.

Don't believe he's not sleeping with his wife, they all say that.

He will sleep with you until a) you bore him b) someone better comes along or c) he is found out and goes grovelling back to his wife.

None of these outcomes will be good for you. End it with him, he is married. End your own relationship, you don't love or respect your partner.

Work on being on your own for a bit, build up your self esteem so that you don't fall for this crap again.

prettyhackedoff Sun 12-Jan-14 10:39:36

OP,
please read my thread and you will see what an EA does to the innocent other partner and their children.

Back2Two Sun 12-Jan-14 10:43:22

He has said he is not happy in his marriage, dull homelife, nothing in common, living as friends.

And, typically they will be making statements such as this to each other; blissfully ignoring the fact that they have a dull homelife and aren't happy because they've emotionally checked out of the relationship and are spending all their emotional energy fantasising about how great life would be to be with the woman at work who never makes them clean the toilet.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 10:47:26

I understand he will say these things just to get in my pants. But the thing is, i do want to sleep with him and am happy for us to not be found out. That is a horrible thing to say, i know.
I agree, i need to sort my home life out myself, keeping these feeling seperate is hard though.
I have told him that if he is not happy at home he should leave and work things out himself first too.
This is like an addiciton though, hard to stop and we work very closely together.
meditrina - you are right, this is just fantasy.
pretty can you link your thread please?

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 10:49:39

back2two - I agree! we have discussed this though, that we are all excited and blind to what it would really be like. But then, at this moment in time i feel id be happy to clean the toilet forever.
I am in deep, this is bad.

Oblomov Sun 12-Jan-14 11:07:21

To me EA involves deceit.
That would be the killer.
That the other person was not who you thought they were. Did not have the morals that you thought they did.

Dh and I agreed, that because of our natures, put personalities, our morals (similar) , we would never get over it.
It would be the end.

Back2Two Sun 12-Jan-14 11:09:49

I just feel sick at the thought of the other two adults in this situation.
It's not happened to me and I don't really want to judge.
Honestly, you're just being totally self-absorbed, selfish and indulging yourselves in this fantasy relationship.
Your excitement and happiness is fed by other people's miserable ignorance and unhappiness. You are making FOOLS out of innocent people (innocent in this context of course, I don't know if they are nice people on the whole)

Tell them what is happening. Give them the chance to indulge in your fantasy with you. See where that leads your passion.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 11:13:43

I understand he will say these things just to get in my pants. But the thing is, i do want to sleep with him and am happy for us to not be found out. That is a horrible thing to say, i know.

Ok, so what is it you want from mumsnet? Permission to cheat on your partner with a married man?

You are fully aware of what you are doing. You are an adult. What do you want from us?

Not getting enough attention from the married man. Oh, yes, it's Sunday, he will be with his family. His wife will probably be cooking him a roast dinner.

Just killing time before Monday?

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 11:21:36

It is decision time for you now.

Adultery or your family?

You have made lots of little decisions that have brought you to the point (the "baby steps" route to an affair) and now you need to decide whether you continue, and risk more devastation than you could ever imagine to your life and the happiness of those around you.

The decision about whether to continue or to end it is entirely yours. Nothing removes that responsibility from you.

Which is the path to true happiness? An affair? Or your family? It is that stark.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 11:27:54

Why don't you leave your partner OP? Are you keeping your options open?

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:33:55

I dont know what I want MN to say, I guess i need to get it off my chest. But also to understand whats going on. Maybe to reassure me it is all fake and not reality and if it did all come out it would then lose the excitement.

I do not want to tell my partner obviously. I do love him and do not want to hurt him so i guess i just have to end it and stay quiet about the EA. I said to the OM i would not end my relationship for him, only for me as i know what happens with OM could easily fizzle out.

No, fairenuff, he has been messaging me constantly, this is the thing. We cannot stop talking.
My partner i am sure loves me but he is also not taking things forward in our relationship, does bare minimum around house and only then it is because i have pushed him. he plays games for hours on end. I work and work and work and feel like we are not on the same level anymore.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 11:35:39

"We cannot stop talking."

Yes you can.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:37:16

Fairenuff - As the days go on i do feel like it will end. But i do not want to have the conversation, we have just got a house together, his family love me, he will be very sad and i do not want to do that to him. If he just bucked up then I am sure we can work it out. I have told him before i want him to do more, do some more work, do more things around house before he plays PS4 etc etc but he just doesnt. He is younger than me and i think he just needs to grow up a bit. Until he realises for himself that o have a good life does not consist of playing consoles all evening, what can i do?

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 11:38:15

I think you understand exactly what is going on. You are posting because you want to talk about him and can't talk to anyone in real life.

You say you love your partner. This is how you treat people you love? So you would be happy for him to do the same to you would you?

Mrscaindingle Sun 12-Jan-14 11:41:02

I too am not sure what you want from this thread, do you want those of us on the other side to tell you of the devastation caused, the heartbroken children caught up in the middle, the fracturing of the relationships in the wider family circle?
Of course he will say those things about his wife and life at home, I can only imagine what my ex said about me. You can justify it any way you want and I'm sure you will because ultimately you are both only thinking of your own needs. Your partners do not deserve to be treated this way, nobody does.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:43:04

Yes, thats it, I cannot talk about it in real life and need to offload.
I know this is awful.
I love my partner, i am not in love with him right now. I feel i could if he just mans up a bit and becomes a bit of a provider. I am the breadwinner, he is content to earn just enough to keep us living but wont strive for anything more.
Maybe we are just different people now. I am not sure.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 11:44:06

It's probably hard to "buck up" when you are a faintly (or very) neglected partner.

You need to choose what you are going to do.

If you continue to put your emotional energy into your affair, then things are extremely unlikey to improve at home.

This begins and ends with you. Are you going to give your marriage another go, are you going to end it, or are you going to persist with half a life?

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:45:40

yes, please tell me just how bad it really is. It might shock me in to just stopping this.
But would those of you who's partners had an EA think you would still be together now? Was it the EA that ended it or was it on it's way to ending anyway and finding out about the EA just hurried it up?

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:48:31

Just to be clear, I am not married. The OM is married.

I do not neglect him though! I chat and chat and chat to him, we cuddle and kiss but he doesnt have anything to say to me. I feel like there's pressure on my to keep the relationship at a level where we are still excited by each other but he doesnt give me much mental stimulation back.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 11:49:41

You've already been told how bad it is several times on this thread.

It's your decision whether or not you heed those messages.

CocoBandicoot Sun 12-Jan-14 11:51:44

But would those of you who's partners had an EA think you would still be together now? Was it the EA that ended it or was it on it's way to ending anyway and finding out about the EA just hurried it up?

I've never been in the situation myself, but even for those who have - the answer is irrelevant - everyone's relationship is different. You're trying to find a way to justify this - you're hoping to be told that his marriage will be over with or without your involvement.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 11:51:46

No, OP, you don't love your partner. If you did you wouldn't treat him like this. You really wouldn't.

You don't even seem to particularly like him just the way he is.

Yes, he might be too immature for you but then why be with him? All you want to do is change him.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 11:53:26

I think this: He will sleep with you until a) you bore him b) someone better comes along or c) he is found out and goes grovelling back to his wife. None of these outcomes will be good for you. End it with him, he is married. End your own relationship, you don't love or respect your partner.Work on being on your own for a bit, build up your self esteem so that you don't fall for this crap again. is what i need to keep reading. It is so right.
Ugh god, i am a silly girl

Mrscaindingle Sun 12-Jan-14 12:05:15

It doesn't matter whether it's an emotional affair or a sexual one it's the same, you are having an affair with someone outside of your relationship.

You don't need people to tell you that is wrong and that people will get hurt and if you both have children it has even greater potential for devastating everyone's lives.

I've spent enough time listening to my ex justifying his behaviour, this is not what I come on MN for. I'm done here.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 12:10:32

Big statements about how damaging your behaviour can be or how badly you feel aren't going to make any real difference.

What matters is what you choose and whether you then implement that choice.

Why don't you click on the relationships section and have a read of the many, many heartbreaking threads posted by women dealing with the fall out of discovering their DHs EA?

It is very likely you will be found out because deceit and lying doesn't come naturally to many.

Also think about work and what will happen there when it comes out. Are either of you in a position of management? I doubt either of you are devoting your whole time during your paid working hours actually working.

NoseWiperExtraordinaire Sun 12-Jan-14 12:11:56

I nearly had an EA once (I had a crush, possibly reciprocated I don't know but started to fantasize that it might be) but managed to swerve it but not before giving up my job and staying the hell away from the man in question.

I knew it was just a reflection on my needs in my relationship that weren't being met and we needed to work on that, which we did smile.

Your needs won't be met by a married man either, it will just devastate lives. You know this which is why you are posting about it.

Take some time away from it all.

End it with him, he is married. End your own relationship, you don't love or respect your partner.Work on being on your own for a bit, build up your self esteem so that you don't fall for this crap again.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 12:16:35

Are you really asking people who have had their lives devastated and their trust destroyed, perhaps forever, to tell you how bad it is so that you can decide whether or not it's bad enough to stop you doing it to another person? shock

Stop replying to the MM texts. Block his calls. Change your phone number if you have to. Start looking for a new job straight away.

In the meantime, avoid him. Do not enter into any conversation unless it's about work.

End the relationship with your partner. Move out until the house is sold, then take your share and rebuild your new life, as a single person, in your new job.

What else do you need to know?

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 12:34:45

Well, he is leaving the company soon so that will be the end anyway.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Sun 12-Jan-14 12:38:59

I would leave your partner if I were you. Even without the EA it doesn't sound like this relationship is going anywhere or doing much for either of you. Perhaps your partner doesn't really love you anymore but can't be arsed to change the comfy status quo.

When you are free and single you might be in a better position to see your life more clearly.

Your OM might then see you as a threat to his comfy life and end it with you before you tell his wife.

Then you'll be free to meet someone who you can really love and who is free to actually love you.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 12-Jan-14 12:39:38

Living... I actually don't think that reading other stories here about affairs will stop you in your tracks. I really don't think it's going to make a difference to you.

I'm not going to flame you. My best friend was where you are and is living a sort of 'half-life' now. She was like a toddler-pulling-a-plate-loaded-tablecloth-off-a-table. All the warnings didn't stop her and it won't stop you.

I know what you want. You want to know how to manage yourself to keep it so you are in control. You also, I think, want a little 'camaraderie' from other women in the same position. You won't find that on this board because OW/OM (as they are so delightfully monikered), are generally - and often gleefully - flamed resulting in lots of deleted posts. This is because there are people here who are hurting, having lost the lives they expected. I can fully understand that and you should acknowledge that by tempering any responses you make to an obviously hurting poster.

At the moment, you still have control but I think you're kidding yourself. You say that you've told your married man that you wouldn't leave your partner for him. That is incongruous with your statement that you 'would happily clean the toilet' forever. I can see that what you feel is complete intoxication, I think affairs do that, they fill whatever that need is inside yourself.

If you PM me, I'll send you 'The Anatomy of an Affair', it's interesting reading.

In a nutshell though, you're not going to take advice about no contact, deleting his details, distancing yourself, etc. because it feels too good to stop it and you figure that if you don't get found out that nobody will get hurt. I'm on the fence with that one, it depends how deceitful and skilful at it you are - and ditto for your married man. You have to be very, very sure that you can count on each other to maintain complete secrecy if you're going to go down this route. Make no mistake though, Living, there is no turning back and you may well rue your decision to embark on it.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 12:45:57

Thank you both for those posts. Will PM you now Lying.

ALittleStranger Sun 12-Jan-14 12:47:41

OP I think what you're doing is a very common response to a crap relationship when you can't summon up the courage to leave. You start to get your emotional needs met but in a way that you hope will remain covert so you never need to have the difficult conversation with your partner, and you've chosen someone who, whether you know it or not, will never force you to bring everything to a head as he has his own competing pressures. It's basically an exciting way to bury your head in the sand.

Unfortunately this isn't sustainable you have to have to be straight with your partner. Be brave. Leave. Find someone you want to be with with wholeheartedly (and I don't think it's the MM either).

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 12:48:24

Posters can advise you which decision will make you happier but at the end of the day it's your life. You are the one that will live with the consequences of your choices.

If you go ahead and cheat on your partner with someone else's husband it makes no difference to me, or any other posters.

You only have to live with yourself and if your conscience is clear you will be happy.

sharonosaurus Sun 12-Jan-14 12:48:38

What makes you think that you are the only one on the receiving end of his charm?

You may well be one of many.

My DH was having several EA with old friends of his, via email etc.

I remember reading one reply from a woman, saying "I hope you are feeling better, Its been horrible not hearing from you"

I looked at the dates, and realised it was around Xmas & that we were both sat on the sofa together picking baby names, inbetween cooking a meal.

I asked him to leave, best thing I ever did.

gettingabitworriednow Sun 12-Jan-14 12:51:22

Hi.
I was in a very similar situation very recently. I did not even know what an emotional affair was until I was stuck in one and came across the term on mn, which I then googled.
Mine was also with a colleague. Luckily for me, our work closed for 2 weeks over Christmas. During this time, neither of us contacted the other one. Although we didn't discuss it, I think we both knew it was the right thing to do.
For the first week of no contact I was overwhelmed with thoughts of this man, to the point of feeling almost physical pain at not seeing him. Then I stopped thinking of him.
It was a huge relief. Finally I had the energy to work on my marriage.
I am in a much better place now and, although we are back at work and I have to work with this man, I have gained a more sensible perspective.
I can already see a marked improvement in my marriage and my mental state (although at the time, I thought I was completely fine and my OH had the problem).
It was the 2 week break that saved me and my marriage. I strongly urge you to take a 2 week holiday and go no-contact during that time. You will be surprised how little time it takes.
I would liken it to giving up smoking.
All the best. I hope I have helped a little bit. I am very sympathetic as I can fully understand how it can creep up on you.

meditrina Sun 12-Jan-14 12:55:57

"Well, he is leaving the company soon so that will be the end anyway."

My guess is that you are avoiding making decisions.

And thus leaving yourself vulnerable to it happening all over again because you are not facing your responsibility in making all the choices that led to this situation, and then choosing not to deal with it.

It makes no difference to me which path you decide to follow. But it's going to make a huge difference to you. Leaving it in the hands of third parties to make decisions for you does however strike me as one of the most diminishing ways to deal with important life choices. But if being a passenger is what you want to do, you can make that choice. But it remains your choice.

Livingthedaydream Sun 12-Jan-14 13:15:00

I tend to bury my head in the sand, then one day i know i will just click, like a little switch and not see a problem in telling my partner i am not happy and want to end it. Until i get to that point i will muddle on.
Getting - yes, thanks for your post. It did creep up on me. I have worked with this guy for years and late last year developed feelings for him. Of course this all came out on the Xmas work do. But we decided to take it no further. We didnt actually have any contact for 2 weeks. As soon as we got back to work the ante was upped. We had missed each other terribly and so for the last week have messaged each other constantly, met up after work, try to be alone at work etc etc. This is only after 1 week!!

CarryOnDancing Sun 12-Jan-14 13:52:25

Living, from your posts it's very obvious that this isn't about your relationship with your DP (you've already checked out of that), it's about the fact you are the OW. I think you want to hear others painful stories because you want proof that in some cases the OW is "special enough" to be prized the position of GF whilst the wife writes on mn about her STBXH.

I don't believe for a minute that if he came and confessed his love, you wouldn't be straight out of the door. There's no use saying otherwise when you feel so strongly about the MM and talk so negatively (and blame his behaviour) about your DP. Who would chose a lazy, non communicative, computer game addict?

You are clearly sticking where you are in the hope the better offer will arise. You are thinking the grass is greener. The only flaw in your plan is that you are treating your DP with contempt and you are selecting a cheat with morals or respect for his wedding vows.

Leave your DP and find someone who is available!

EvenBetter Sun 12-Jan-14 13:54:48

Gross. How trashy and sleazy. Picture him standing in his suit on his wedding day, his face as he saw his bride, him making legal vows to love, honour, cherish and protect his wife. Them decorating their home, their children. Him pissing all that against a wall. That's the type of person you're lusting after. A liar, a pathetic waste of space who is happily destroying lives so he can get an ego stroke or shove his dick in you in some gloomy Premiere Inn. Imagine him having sex with his wife (because he is, you know) and then slinking off to the bog to send you shitty little text messages.
What part of this is NOT just fucking dreary and pathetic?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 12-Jan-14 14:21:36

Living... there was a recent thread on here about 'OW winning the married man'. It got a bit heated as it is emotive for many people but it may be interesting for you to read it.

The fact is, for some OW/OM an affair is just that; for others, it is a 'wake-up' call to end their primary relationships and start again. These are just people though, decent, honourable, unkind, dislikeable, funny, unhappy, every kind. They just happen to be having an affair. An OW/OM doesn't become 'seedy or pathetic' just because they're judged. They're still people with thoughts and feelings and desires. I truly hate the labelling; that's pointless.

We are bound, by convention, to honour marriage vows. Marriages are very easy to enter into and very difficult to get out of because of costs, family ties and the thought of what people might think.

I think that this topic is one that should be discussed more; perhaps not here though because it causes immense upset and nobody wants to cause anguish on a board for support.

Fairenuff Sun 12-Jan-14 15:18:24

I have worked with this guy for years and late last year developed feelings for him. Of course this all came out on the Xmas work do. But we decided to take it no further. We didnt actually have any contact for 2 weeks. As soon as we got back to work the ante was upped.

Of course it has! Can you honestly not see what is happening here? He wasn't interested in you until you told him that you were up for no strings sex.

Then, all of a sudden, he's chasing after you. Not a big surprise is it.

Oblomov Sun 12-Jan-14 15:39:12

This thread is making me feel ill.
The number if posts saying 'oh I never knew this' is pathetic. ' oh I had no idea' = please f**k off . You insulting to all females with half a brain.

skyeskyeskye Sun 12-Jan-14 15:42:52

my XH claimed that he was unhappy in our relationship, but instead of working on that and talking to me, he developed an EA with his mates wife and told her all of our alleged problems (that I knew nothing about) and emailed/texted her thousands of times. All his attention was on her and how good it was making him feel, rather than talk to me.

You are wrong to be pursuing a married man. If he genuinely has a bad marriage, then he needs to end that before embarking on a new relationship with anyone.

In the same vein, you need to sort out your own relationship and end that if it is no longer giving you what you need. But it is never going to work out while your time and emotion is invested in another man.

many woman on here will be thinking. Better not be our husbands your with. please do the right thing. If you feel your relationship is over, don't make another relationship over because you are not happy.

Back2Two Sun 12-Jan-14 16:57:06

lyingwitch is spot on.
It is blatantly obvious from your posts that you are on a roller coaster and you have absolutely NO intention on getting off.
You are loving it.

It's like talking to a drug addict about the downer whilst they're high. Ain't going to mean a thing.

Only if you have the strength of character to see the whole picture....have respect for his wife and your partner, have the strength to stop the inevitable misery ahead .....only then does this thead mean anything real.

Back2Two Sun 12-Jan-14 17:02:22

living your posts really sound quite awful to an outsider.
You're so deluded and smug about it.
Are you having the biggest love affair ever?
Are you like some sort of Disney style couple?
Has no-one ever felt love like this before?
Have you found love in a hopeless place?

Bollocks. You're kidding yourself so blatantly. You sound young, immature and selfish . Get a fucking grip and sort out this mess .

It's like talking to a drug addict about the downer whilst they're high. Ain't going to mean a thing.

Very true.

Cambridgechick Sun 12-Jan-14 21:57:53

My DH has had a series of emotional affairs. I think that people who have them must have something missing where empathy should be. I'm sure I'd love to have my ego massaged by some young, fit guy, but I would be constantly thinking of the pain I was causing and couldn't cross that line.

Thing is, if you end it he will move onto the next EA because its addictive for these men, just like my husband has done every time I've caught him out in one of these "friendships"

I suspect there's no point telling you anything because you are utterly self-centred. I pity your partner with all my heart.

whodhavethunkit Sun 12-Jan-14 22:50:11

I'm a married mum of 3 currently in the grip of an EA. The OM is in another country to me so there is absolutely no way that it will ever go any further. Like you though, OP, I love the thrill of it and the way he makes me feel. But I also go through times of intense guilt where I cut all contact. It is always short lived though. I miss him terribly when I go NC so cave in. He is also married with a dc. I know that it is all complete fantasy and neither of us has any intention of changing our lives for the other. I know what we are doing is very wrong. I know that I am selfish and don't deserve the wonderful DH that I have. I know that the only real way forward is to go NC and stick with it. I'm just weak.

Fucking hell. Weak men, weak women. Fucked up all the way.

I wish I had wise words but I don't, I hate selfish people.

Tonandfeather Mon 13-Jan-14 01:30:45

I love my partner, i am not in love with him right now. I feel i could if he just mans up a bit and becomes a bit of a provider. I am the breadwinner, he is content to earn just enough to keep us living but wont strive for anything more.

Like the married man, you mean? Is he an ambitious provider then?

An ambitious provider who is hoping to screw around and hurt his wife?

Stop being such a ridiculous princess who's looking for a man to be a provider. As you can see, ambitious providers aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Provide for yourself.

Be on your own and if you want more, earn it yourself.

Stop expecting a man to prop up your life. Especially don't expect a man who's committed to someone else to solve your life problems.

jojoanna Mon 13-Jan-14 06:56:20

If you go down the path of an illicit shag the line will be crossed and there is no turning back. Even if nobody ever finds out you will know .

Pukkapik Mon 13-Jan-14 08:46:28

Living -
There are two things here - dissatisfaction with your DP, and the only way to improve that is to sit and talk and tell him that you need more from him than you are getting and that you want to make it work. Otherwise, things will just get worse.
The EA ...this has warning lights all over it. This guy loves the excitement, cannot believe he has found a mental and physical attraction so accessible..but I do NOT believe when push comes to shove, he would choose you. If this guy was seriously concerned about the potential end of his marriage, he would be more troubled, upset and concerned about everyone's feelings conflicting round about him. Sounds like he simply can't believe his luck that a woman is throwing herself at him in his last days in a company. It will be so easy for him to fuck you and go.

Valeria1977 Mon 13-Jan-14 09:02:11

OP, whether you can see it or not right now, you are following a script. In years to come you will curl up with embarrassment at the memory of all this. It is not a pleasant feeling when the scales fall from your eyes too late and you see things for how they really were. It is an awful feeling to judge your own behaviour and find it so lacking.

It doesn't matter if you truly love him or not, with regard to how this will affect you long term. You will still feel sick when you remember things you did and said.

So if you can't stop this for your partner or for the thought of OM's wife, then stop it for your future self.

I had an EA and felt that I was in love. I was single, he was married. He didn't pretend that things were dull at home. He said he loved his wife and didn't understand why he had these other feelings.

I let the situation and my feelings go way too far. I didn't have the foresight to see that the pain caused would be so far reaching. I was caught up in my immediate feelings. I was weak. And all the drama meant I was feeling something - not just plodding along being a bit lonely.

After a few weeks of intense emotion, we went no contact. It was torment. And I had no one to blame but myself. But I was still in this bubble of drama and emotion. Then I had an email from his wife. She had known something wasn't right. She had found out about me. Her message was amazingly measured and dignified. She just wanted to make sure I would stay away. I promised her I would. After that it was easy to keep up the no contact. Once I had made the promise to her it was like an extra lock on the door if ever I felt weak.

I felt utterly ashamed. I still felt heartbroken. I felt unable to confide in my friends. There was no relief and it was all my own doing, which made it feel even worse.

I did a lot of reading on mumsnet. I read about the effect of affairs. I read about why people give themselves permission to have affairs. It helped.

Whenever I thought of him - and he still comes to mind now and then - I made myself think of how I felt when I read his wife's email, and how I would feel if I met her face to face. Small and stupid and ashamed.

This is a selfish thing you are doing, but I think you know that. Telling you to think of others isn't working. So think of how you will feel when it comes out and you have to explain to your partner or to OM's wife. Protect your future self from feeling sick to the stomach forever because of something you do now.

Only you can know the truth about your relation with your partner. But from the outside it sounds as if you don't love him and have no respect for him. Are you scared of being alone?

Come on, OP, what do you think is the right thing to do? What do your own morals and upbringing tell you?

MrsBennetsEldest Mon 13-Jan-14 09:13:12

Haven't you heard of the expression ' Fools Paradise' OP? The emphasis is on the word FOOL. Which is what you are if you believe this MM and all the tosh he is spouting about his relationship with his wife and his homelife.
You're a fool if you believe you are anything more than an easy jump. The pair of you are not love sick as you pathetically put it but just sick. Selfish. You are blaming your partner for you actions. Take some responsibility FGS.
Fast forward a few weeks. He has moved on to pastures new and has shared details of your 'fun' with male colleagues. Word gets round about the person you really are. That will be a lovely ending to your fairy tale romance.

Sensitivesituation2 Mon 13-Jan-14 12:34:58

Valeria Thank you for taking the time to post this. I too am in the same situation, I am not single. I also have read all the other posts and your post has hit me hard. I am currently having an EA, I have seen the OM this morning. I know that it is wrong. OP I know EXACTLY how you are feeling right now. I didn't want or plan for this to happen, but it did.

I am already embarrassed at my behaviour Valeria. I know nothing will come of this, he will not leave his wife, nor will I leave my DH. It can only hurt everyone more and today it ends. I just want to talk to him all the time - why - because he boosts my self esteem and makes me feel great about myself.

OP I hope you do the right thing. I know you are not a bad person, neither am I.

Cambridgechick Mon 13-Jan-14 14:24:21

My DH has had a series of emotional affairs. I think that people who have them must have something missing where empathy should be. I'm sure I'd love to have my ego massaged by some young, fit guy, but I would be constantly thinking of the pain I was causing and couldn't cross that line.

Thing is, if you end it he will move onto the next EA because its addictive for these men, just like my husband has done every time I've caught him out in one of these "friendships"

I suspect there's no point telling you anything because you are utterly self-centred. I pity your partner with all my heart.

Valeria1977 Mon 13-Jan-14 17:07:57

sensitivesituation2 I hope you find the strength to make today the last day this continues. As soon as you are able, delete email addresses, phone numbers, block Facebook etc. you may have them in your memory but that will fade in time. Bring your focus back to your dh, and decide if you want a future with him. Every day counts. Only one life, so live it in a way you can feel proud of.

Valeria1977 Mon 13-Jan-14 17:18:57

Can I also suggest that you stop yourself from thinking things like this:

I didn't want or plan for this to happen, but it did.

I said this to myself too. It's a way to sidestep a bit of the responsibility for what happened. It's not helpful to you. Unless you take responsibility for what happened, you can never work on yourself to make sure it won't happen again. The fact is, if you look back on it, you will be able to pick out the times when, if you had done something different, you wouldn't be where you are now. It didn't just happen. You (and I, and everyone in this position) allowed it and enabled it to happen. Just because it wasn't planned out, doesn't mean it 'just happened'.

NanaNina Mon 13-Jan-14 17:42:45

Think OP you need to find someone else in whom you can confide about your EA with this work colleague as MNs are getting angry with you and I can understand why. I can also understand the thrill of the affair - it is intoxicating and flattering and makes us see the world in vibrant colours. I think while ever you are in the "first flush" as you are now, you won't heed any advice on here. I understand the need to talk to someone about the excitement in your life (it's half the fun) so maybe try to find someone who you can trust.

Just remember you may well get very hurt...........he will probably say he can't leave his wife because of the kids, but when they are grown he will do so...........yeah right.

Cambridgechick Mon 13-Jan-14 18:05:01

Before I met DH I was in a 'relationship' with a work colleague who turned out to be engaged. I was infatuated with him, he was the most beautiful man I had ever seen and the physical attraction was electric. However I was one of a series of 'outside interests' and he made it clear to me that his fiancé came first. He convinced himself that he wasn't cheating if we didn't have penetrative sex; everything else was ok though. As soon as I found out about his long term GF I knew it was doomed; he was a highly-sexed man who liked to play the field. My experience with my DH leads me to believe that there are many men who will do this if they can get away with it because its fun and it boosts their ego. I do remember feeling very bad for his fiancé and I broke it off and moved onto someone else.

I think no one else has mentioned the most important thing here, though. If there are children involved, that changes everything. I'm a big girl now and if my DH eventually fucks off or I kick him out, I will get over it and may eventually find someone else. My children will never have another father, and the repercussions of his actions will leave a permanent scar in their lives. This is what I wrote to one of my DHs 'Facebook friends' and she dropped contact after that. It didn't stop him going on to have other EAs though.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 13-Jan-14 19:02:27

Nobody has the right to tell anybody else where they should and shouldn't post. Yes, this is an emotive subject. During my break-up I would given it a wide swerve because it would have been too painful for me. My choice to read it or not.

There are some threads about horrible subjects here on relationships... does anybody go onto them and tell the poster not to post? No, they don't. Don't do it to this one either.

Nobody thinks that affairs are a good thing. I've never ONCE seen anybody say so, but to treat 'OW' as the scourge of the devil is ridiculous and unjust. My best friend, OW as she most definitely was, is a good and kind woman who made some bad choices. None of that detracts from the fact that she's a decent human being.

... and if you persist in your ridiculousness, better get the blood service to add an additional criteria - 'Have you EVER been an OW?' If yes, you can't donate... hmm

I'm fed up of the silliness and spite on here, I really am. Take responsibility for your own feelings and experiences and perhaps have the sense NOT to open a thread about OW and affairs if you can't offer anything other than insults. It's time that MNHQ made a stand about it because NO other OP of any other topic would be pilloried like this.

Fairenuff Mon 13-Jan-14 19:32:08

Nobody thinks that affairs are a good thing. I've never ONCE seen anybody say so

Actually, I have seen a few posts encouraging affairs. Mostly from posters who were already in the position of OW. But they are most definitely in the minority, thankfully.

jojoanna Mon 13-Jan-14 19:34:00

Lying extremely good post

Valeria1977 Mon 13-Jan-14 19:47:53

I agree with what Lying says. NanaNina, don't you think it is worth trying to help the OP to see the situation she's in a bit more objectively? Yes, words on a screen might not make a difference to her, but equally they might. She has asked for help.

elsabel Mon 13-Jan-14 22:14:05

Just found out my dp has been having an emotional affair with someone from work. I caught him out.

Where did it start? Apparently i didnt give him enough attention and he confided in the other woman.

Where did it go?
They started flirting, connecting and meeting up in secret. In the meantime he checked out of our relationship.

Where did it end?
With him leaving me and our 7 month old daughter. Its all my fault of course.

Realise the devastation it causes

memorylapse Mon 13-Jan-14 22:22:44

My h started an emotional affair in early 2010 with a work colleague whilst I was heavily pregnant..
They started meeting up after dd was born for secret drinks and connecting at work, he checked out of our marraige yet denied an affair.
I finally walked out with the dcs in early 2012.
The result a 15 year marraige over, three devastated dcs and a divorce on the horizon.
He is now in full blown relationship with her..incidentally he is 46 but went against the stereotype if younger woman., I am 41, she nearly 60.
Hes a feckwit...

NanaNina Mon 13-Jan-14 22:40:48

Well the OP seems to have disappeared which is why I posted that she needed to find someone else in whom she could confide. Yes her head may agree with all the posts pointing out the pitfalls of this sort of relationship and she may feel guilty, but her heart will win out I think because the excitement of an affair is incredibly powerful. I also think that affairs are far more common than most of us believe, given that 50% of marriages/partnerships break down.

OK they break down for all sorts of reasons and 2nd marriages/relationships break down quicker than 1st ones which isn't surprising because all of the emotional baggage that gets dragged into the new relationship, and the whole step parenting issue. I would guess that many of these marriages/partnerships break up because of affairs.

My own view for what it's worth is that marriage doesn't really work very well, especially for women (and this is reflected in the high numbers of women who petition for divorce) as opposed to male petitioners. Incidentally when the law changed to make divorce easier it was said that it would be a "Casanovas Charter" - but that's not the case, as it suits men to be married far more than it suits women.

Sensitivesituation2 Tue 14-Jan-14 05:52:06

Lying Agree 100%. I have commented on this post which I know has helped me, and who knows who else this has brought reality home too. This is an emotive topic, and just as there aren't as many posted by the OW for fear of flaming, doesn't mean its not happening.

Valeria OM is away for a week. As is my DH so I can sort my head out. Unfortunately is isn't as easy as deleting numbers, I see him every day. This is going to be tough but I know what I need to do. Only one life, so live it in a way you can feel proud of. This!

blueballet1 Tue 14-Jan-14 20:24:03

There's a really good book on EA by Dr Shirley Glass - it's called 'NOT just friends'. It contains some really interesting advice from a relationships counsellor.

A few things I remember:

- people who have EAs (some may progress to full-blown affairs) are generally NOT unhappy at home, rather they have the opportunity to connect with someone - often at work - and they become good friends first
- the intimacy builds largely because both may think 'I'm married/with someone else' and don't expect anything to develop
- often ppl still have good sex lives at home
- the EA provides all the excitement and intimacy of an affair and can be just as destructive.

I read the book because I was in an EA for two years with a guy 12 years older than me. He was married with two kids and I was single. We met at a university evening class. I think I was probably naive about what I was getting myself in to. He said later on that I was a distraction and helped get him through a tough part of his life.

I don't see him any more and I am gutted to think that my involvement with him, albeit non-physical/sexual, could have hurt his family life. If you are reading this and you're in a secret relationship with someone other than your partner then please read the book I mentioned at the start of the post - some great advice there, as well as on this thread.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 14-Jan-14 20:55:03

I know that book is oft quoted as some sort of bible here, blueballet but I didn't find it very useful, it irritated me and didn't resonate at all. Even the quiz... my friend, who was in the depths of her affair, did the quiz and it told her that she was 'on the slippery slope'. She was so far on the slope that she was off the other end! hmm

I'm glad that it helps some people, it really does depend on whether it strikes a chord for you but if it doesn't there are other resources that can help.

Tonandfeather Tue 14-Jan-14 21:38:29

I bought that book for a pal who was going through this and we both thought it was excellent. I read about it here and looked it up. I wouldn't have thought it was comfortable reading for anyone who is having or has had an affair though.

Poster seems to have gone AWOL anyhow. I think some of them start threads at the weekend just to get their affair fix. As soon as they go back to work on Monday, everyone who bothered to post gets forgotten.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 14-Jan-14 23:04:18

I don't think that,, Tonandfeather, not at all. People having affairs have nowhere to turn to vent, voice concerns, ask questions, etc. They post here and get flamed. Are you really surprised that some of them don't return to a thread they started?

Tonandfeather Wed 15-Jan-14 00:36:31

I guess SOME get a bad reception, but those always seem to be the ones whose selfishness and self-absorption shines through in their words. I've seen others where the response is quite different. Don't agree that people having affairs have nowhere to turn to either. That might be true for some, but not all. Too sweeping a statement.

I stand by what I said. I think some post to get their fix, bleed others dry and then disappear when they are next able to get their bigger fix e.g. the lover.

If you're right that every time a person having an affair starts a post they get a hard time, what drives people (who must know that) to post then? A masochistic fix?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 15-Jan-14 08:18:56

I really don't know why anybody posts anything, Tonandfeather but 'to bleed others dry'? How arrogant and self-absorbed that statement is. People aren't obliged to reply to any OP about anything. Some post to help, some post to pass the time. Anybody who feels 'bled dry' should give the boards a rest.

I don't like the slating and spite that's levelled at people who post for support. No other 'type' of OP would suffer that. OPs who happen to be having an affair are not 'punchbags' for general verbal abuse; that's what they often get and it's not ok.

Fairenuff Wed 15-Jan-14 08:35:16

OP did post that she had no-one to talk to in rl about this.

Yes, thats it, I cannot talk about it in real life and need to offload.
I know this is awful.

However, I don't think, on this thread there has been any flaming.

In fact I think posters have been remarkably restrained considering the insensitivity of some of the OPs posts.

She claims to be a regular and yet blithely posts in relationships about an affair.

Any regular will know that many people here have been on the other side of that situation and have been tremendously hurt by it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 15-Jan-14 08:46:56

Fairenuff... OP is NOT responsible for posters deciding to read and join in a thread. There are lots of awful subjects discussed in relationships board. If those are too difficult for somebody to read then it is their responsibility not to do that, nobody else's.

Of course, some people just love to come onto such threads and lash out or stir. Up to them I guess. Who knows anybody's motivation or doing anything? <shrugs>

Tonandfeather Wed 15-Jan-14 12:17:52

You seem very invested in this LWITW?

Yes people can avoid certain posts, but have you forgotten that the poster started this disingenuously posing as someone who was just after a discussion about emotional affairs?

I opened it because some good friends have just been hurt by what the poster has been involved in and like I said, I bought one that book you disliked. It's not personally painful to me, but I hate what my friends have been through and thought it might be a good discussion about what I'd read recently.

I agree with Fairenuff that some of the posters posts were very insensitive and so it's kinda understandable if that irritates and produces a response in kind. You say people must take responsibility for what they engage with, but seem to be overlooking the responsibility of a poster to post sensitively about an issue that has hurt many. Why are you doing that? As far as I could tell, the poster was getting some good advice and quite a few nice kind folks were sharing their stories to help. The poster didn't even come back to say "thanks". Then you posted, lashing out at people for treating other women like the "scourge of the devil". Very strange.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 15-Jan-14 13:06:05

Tonandfeather... I'm not personally invested in this at all, although you might have caught references to my friend who has been through hell - as the OW - and perhaps it tempers my responses.

The title of the thread was really clear, so people open and read at their own insistence. I'm gjad that book helped you, it didn't help my friend and when I read it, I didn't think it was very helpful, but everybody's different.

The OP was talking about her own circumstances, nobody else's. It's not an easy subject to discuss but it is the one that is most inflammatory and guarantee to cause name-calling. My 'lashing out' as you so inaccurately describe it, was my way of calling the pointed hypocrisy on this board towards OW who seem to be uniformly vilified. That's not acceptable; if a poster named-called any other OP on any other subject, they would be shouted down. Whether you agree with my post or not, it was certainly not 'lashing out' nor directed at anybody.

Many of the posts on this thread are quite helpful, even though they're sad to read - the other posts are a mix of spite and anger and general name-calling. Nobody is going to keep returning to a place where they are verbally abused and on that, I'm unclear why you think any OP on a chatboard should feel obliged to call back onto any thread to say, 'Thanks'.

Tonandfeather Wed 15-Jan-14 13:14:54

Good manners to acknowledge people taking the time to share their stories, really.

Your post just seemed ill-timed to me, when the poster was getting good advice and others were sharing their own painful stories as the OW - and not getting any backlash, probably because they wrote sensitively.

The book didn't help me but it did help the friend I bought it for.

Personally I think if someone writes about something that's caused pain to others and they know that will be the case, whether it's drug-taking, alcoholism, drink driving, addiction, affairs...ANYTHING really, it's understandable if people post with emotion, especially if the poster is displaying little sensitivity in what she writes.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 15-Jan-14 13:43:26

My post (the one you refer to) was in response to NanaNina and some of the ones before that one, not CambridgeChick's post or any of the other stories shared.

Emotion is fine, name-calling isn't and there is often an abundance of both. Posters who feel bullied won't likely return to a thread though, that's understandable.

Fairenuff Wed 15-Jan-14 17:35:12

There are lots of awful subjects discussed in relationships board. If those are too difficult for somebody to read then it is their responsibility not to do that, nobody else's.

Equally though, LWIW, you are responding to my post, in an effort to temper my response. You don't have to read my post, you don't have to comment on it, yet you feel compelled to.

That is the nature of discussion and that is why posters respond to the OP, be it positive or negative.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Wed 15-Jan-14 17:51:13

I have no problem with your posts Fairenuff, or anybody else's really. The only ones I object to are the unfair, name-calling ones. I don't mind that people have opinions, whatever they are, I certainly do.

Fairenuff Wed 15-Jan-14 17:54:43

Well have there been unfair, name-calling ones on this thread?

Livingthedaydream Wed 15-Jan-14 19:36:30

I am back now. I was busy at work and also cannot really go on MN when my partner is about.

So maybe my posts have been insensitive, too blunt. It's just how I write. I do not want to offend anybody but I cannot do anything if you are. If you don't want to read about emotional affairs or are just going to get angry reading this thread then I would suggest you do not come back to this thread.
Hearing anyone say it's gross, pathetic, making them feel ill - doesn't help.

I don't know why I started this thread. I guess i did just need to offload and yes, maybe it is true I wanted to see if any OW have been the ones the MM has ended up with.

Don't get me wrong, the MM I am having this EA with has said he isn't going to be leaving his wife, well, not anytime soon anyway. I am fine with that. I also do not intend on leaving my partner. I do love him but at this moment I just need a bit more love and attention and I am not getting it from him right now. I do honestly believe we will be ok in the future.
I also cannot break up with him as I cannot afford the rent on my own. Shit reason? Yes. But still a reason.

To whoever asked how do i know I am the only one MM is seeing? Simply... I don't. I am 99% sure he is not but even if he was it's nothing to do with me. I have not slept with him and do not see it as my business.

I would love for MM to be with me. I would love it if we were both single and could start a real relationship, but we can't right now so this is the best I have got.

It is easy to tell me to grow up, move on, stop contacting him etc but I just do not want to. I like him, we get on so well. It is like he is my soulmate. So why would I stop it?

What a ramble that was and I am now going to watch this thread through my hands over my eyes.

Thank you to Lying especially and the other women who have inputted from their EA experience.

Cambridgechick Wed 15-Jan-14 21:13:27

Oh, I feel silly now. If I'd realised you were taking the piss all along, I wouldn't have bothered posting ....... wink

Fairenuff Wed 15-Jan-14 21:29:45

I would love for MM to be with me. I would love it if we were both single and could start a real relationship, but we can't right now so this is the best I have got.

Why?

Seriously? You would love to have a man who you know already will lie and cheat? If that is all you think yourself worthy of, then it explains a lot.

You don't love your partner. You probably don't understand what it feels like to love someone. When you do you will get what I mean. You even say yourself that you are only with him because you can't afford your rent.

I'm sorry for you that you think so little of yourself but there isn't really anything else to say that hasn't been said already.

Deluded.

I think you have self esteem issues.

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 16-Jan-14 09:47:34

"I like him, we get on so well. It is like he is my soulmate. So why would I stop it?"

Because what your doing is incredibly selfish and hurting other, innocent people who have never done anything to you to deserve you fucking up their lives with gay abandon?

Is that not enough of a reason for you?

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 16-Jan-14 09:48:33

I think you have self importance issues.

skyeskyeskye Thu 16-Jan-14 10:37:19

* I also do not intend on leaving my partner. I do love him but at this moment I just need a bit more love and attention and I am not getting it from him right now. I do honestly believe we will be ok in the future.*

If that is what you genuinely want and believe, then you need to stop investing your time and emotion in another man.

MamaJazzHands Thu 16-Jan-14 16:45:11

Well its clear from your posts that you have no intention of stopping your EA. I cant see anywhere that you feel any kind of guilt or remorse towards everyone else involved at the moment, so i'm not exactly sure why you're posting or what you hope to gain from this.
I am struggling to understand

I could tell you how my DH's EA affected me, I could tell you the circumstances leading up to it, I could tell you how devastated,hurt and humiliated I was, but I wont as I don't think that will make a difference to you right now.
Because you have justified it already in your head, there is simply no point in any of us telling you what you should or should not do or telling you the rights and wrongs of it all.

Can I just ask if your MM were to leave his wife and Dc's for you would you end your relationship to be with him?

Can I also ask if you have thought about the massive fallout should this come out, ( and I mean really truly thought about it) How would you feel about this situation then?

Tonandfeather Thu 16-Jan-14 17:40:59

I agree with the self-importance issues.

But feminism must have completely eluded this poster, who talks about her partner "manning up" and "providing". Who thinks that as she's not getting enough attention from a man, it's ok to mess around with another one who'll take his attention away from the woman he's committed to.

It's always struck me as immensely hypocritical when folks whinge about not being paid enough attention, but are only too happy to let some other sucker suffer that fate.

Fairenuff Thu 16-Jan-14 17:57:41

I think there is a false sense of superiority in 'winning' a man, by having him choose you rather than another woman.

The problem is that the only kind of man who would do this is not worth having anyway, so he's not so much a 'prize' as a forfeit.

You don't win a cheater, you get lumbered with them.

The ones that are worth having wouldn't be interested in extra-marital affairs. They would either turn down the offer or do the decent thing and end their primary relationship first.

livingzuid Thu 16-Jan-14 19:01:08

OP I have had a friend go through this. The whole reason she embarked on it was because of abject misery at home. With the wrong guy. Neither of them were horrible they were just wrong for each other. Split up eventually but not until she realised that the EA satisfied nothing in real life.

Your posts, particularly the last one, sounded incredibly contradictory. Either you want him to leave his wife for you or you don't and you are content to carry on in this fantasy world for the rest of your days.

I'd say deep down you want him to leave and set up shop with you and all will be hunky dory. I am afraid that if that happened you'd be doomed to failure and end up in another affair with someone else. You haven't even slept with him yet he could be shit in bed for all you know! (you know you are going to get physical with this guy don't you at this rate?). He has kids. So you're going to have to make friends with them once the two of you are shacked up - how is that going to go down with them as the woman who spilt up their mum and dad and caused so much pain? That is reality, not some meaningless bullshit on a text message.

An ea is an affair I don't care if it involves any touchy feely or not. You are currently cheating on you partner - being married has nothing to do with it.

The reality of this is not pretty. It won't be if he leaves and moves in with you. You have nothing of substance with this man.

So your partner might be a pain, why don't you just ditch him then if he's such dead weight?

You know as well right if this married man can cheat on his wife he is more than capable of doing it to you?

You don't deserve a flaming for posting and wanting to know about others and their opinions. I feel quite sorry for you as there is a hint of desperation in your messages. There is not one person in the universe, me included, who has not at some point in their lives caused deep and painful hurt to another, intentional or not. It's just this particular topic has hurt them and it's not easy reading.

But you sound seriously messed up and confused and I think you should get some form of counselling to talk through your priorities. Your issues I think go deeper than a crap relationship and enjoying a fling.

This is not normal behaviour and the world you inhabit in your head with this man is not real - just remember that.

I hope you find a resolution.

livingzuid Thu 16-Jan-14 19:08:20

I also do not intend on leaving my partner. I do love him but at this moment I just need a bit more love and attention and I am not getting it from him right now. I do honestly believe we will be ok in the future

See this is what I mean about not being realistic. How are you ever going to achieve such a content state with your partner if you exhaust your energy with something that is not real. Relationships take work and if you aren't prepared to do the decent thing and leave your partner then you need to end this affair.

Tonandfeather Thu 16-Jan-14 19:59:26

This guy isn't choosing the poster over his wife though. He wants her AS WELL as his wife, for a while until he gets fed up or he's found out. He's also made it very clear he's not going to leave his main relationship. Of course he's claimed he's not happy in his relationship - he probably thinks the poster wouldn't have got involved if he was honest and said everything's just fine and he wanted a roll in the hay for as long as it lasts.

There can be no superiority in being an extra.

Unfaithful men never assume unfaithful women are just as selfish as them and always think women need to think a man's relationship is a shambles before getting involved. Wrong. HE'D get involved even if this poster said her relationship was just great and unfaithful women are no different. The difference is he probably knows it's not a lovejob and has no need to think it's any more than a brief diversion, whereas the poster probably needs to think she wouldn't be acting this way if 1) she hadn't fallen in love and 2) her relationship had been better.

The normal outcome of these messes is that the man tires soonest of the needy woman looking for a rescuer and either ditches her or when found out, drops her like a hot brick.

Livingthedaydream Wed 22-Jan-14 22:55:17

Update.

Broke up with partner yesterday.
MM is now separated.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Thu 23-Jan-14 08:07:15

So you all live happily ever after?!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 23-Jan-14 08:39:53

Livigthedaydream... I was wondering how you were getting on; I'm glad that you've ended things with your partner, it reduces the complication and was the right thing to do. I expect it feels a bit weird at the moment though and that your mind and thoughts are running away with you, but that's normal. MM will have to do some thinking too and coming to terms with the end of his marriage. It's a major change for both of you.

My advice would be to take your time to regroup your feelings and decide what you want your life to be like once everything has settled.

Whatever you do, don't leap into coupledom with MM right now, not if you think that you'd like to be a couple one day because you'll start from a slightly different position; it's a tiny distinction but still significant.

It may be that you'll want to be together at some point or maybe that one or both of you will decide that's not what you want. Either way, make no sudden moves and only very considered, minor decisions for now. I wish you well, everybody deserves to be happy.

MsWinnieBaygo Thu 23-Jan-14 11:52:05

I wouldn't officially call your married man 'separated' as presumably he only split up with his wife a few days ago? Anything could happen. I'd focus on yourself now for a while tbh - well done on getting out of a relationship that you weren't happy with but both you and the MM need some time alone to focus on what you want out of life, without distracting each other IMO.

Getting involved in a relationship with a man who had only just split from his wife is normally a recipe for disaster.

sensitivesituation2 Wed 29-Jan-14 08:30:06

Livingthedaydream I have returned to this post often since it was posted. I was wondering how things were going with you?

I have also come back to it again and again for some strength for myself..... As I said in my post, I am in a similar situation. I am finding things very difficult. When tempted to contact mm I have come back to advise on this thread and it has helped me immensely. We have been nc since that day, but I have had a setback... we met up again and things went to another level. We did not have sex but we had physical contact. I am so beyond angry with myself and I feel like I am back to square one again. I am finding this so incredibly difficult. I cannot change the fact that I see him everyday, but I have to get him out of my head for good now. I have never done anything like this before, and I am hurting and don't know how to get through this. I felt like I was being strong, and now this.

Please anyone who is on the verge of an EA, just think about things. You do not want to be sitting in my shoes right now. Other posters seem to think this isn't the place to post about this. For me I think it is, there are those of you who have been here, and those of you who have been on the other side.

madeofstone Wed 29-Jan-14 16:53:58

I'm calling bullshit....no one could be unaware of other people and what is happening, and for me to say that means you are a moon unit.

Sorry if this offends as you said earlier I say it as I see it.

Livingthedaydream Wed 29-Jan-14 18:48:06

Hello Sensitive try not to be so hard on yourself. You cannot help these feelings. They consume me and I am sure they do with you too.

So, I did tell a colleague about what was going on. She has actually been very supportive. She knew of my problems with my partner and has also seen me and MM's relationship blossom. He does not know I have told her though.
Last Tuesday I was talking with her about my partner and asked her what I should do. I then said "no, i know what to do, i'm doing it tonight" and that was it. My head was set. I felt sick all day, e-mailed my parents for advice back and forth all day. Drove home and as soon as i walked in the door I told him to sit down and ended it with him. He was in total shock. It was awful. I feel very sad for him and guilty for hurting him but i do not regret my decision.
I then stayed with my granny for a few nights whilst partner was getting his head together and then he was away this weekend for a long weekend so I managed to go back to house. He collects the rest of his stuff tomorrow.

MM had a big talk with his wife and said he wanted to separate. He works in a different city to where he lives and so he has now moved out and is lodging with a colleague.

Last Sunday night he booked a hotel and I went to stay with him. We drank, had a laugh and had a good night. Monday we went to another hotel and I basically was there to be supportive to him after he had spoke to his wife again and he was extremely sad about his kids.

He is not feeling so sad about his wife, but he is desperately sad for his kids. He is now looking for a permanent place to stay.
His wife is upset but also knew it was coming. She said that to him. They have agreed that the kids come first in everything.

I am happy just to take things as they come. I need to work out my finances, catch up with friends and just get my head together.

I feel a lot happier now. I was right to end it with my partner. I was really not happy and now I am excited to just live on my own and make the house my own too.

To be honest I probably wouldnt have ended it with my partner if it wasnt for this thread.

MM is a rock to me and I to him. We get on like a house on fire. I will not stop seeing him.

Livingthedaydream Wed 29-Jan-14 18:54:05

Thankyou lying again for another good post.

*Whatever you do, don't leap into coupledom with MM right now, not if you think that you'd like to be a couple one day because you'll start from a slightly different position; it's a tiny distinction but still significant.
It may be that you'll want to be together at some point or maybe that one or both of you will decide that's not what you want. Either way, make no sudden moves and only very considered, minor decisions for now. I wish you well, everybody deserves to be happy.*

I am definitely not going to become a couple with him at the moment. We both do need to think about our lives and what we want.
I do want kids and to be married, he has been there done that. So he will need to have a huge think about what he wants from life and if he would want to go down that road again with me. I hope he does but that will be further into the future.

I could have let him stay with me at the house but i have taken the decision not to do that. I do want some time on my own. I do want to meet up with him for dates and things but nothing more for now. I do hope we can be together in the future and I get excited thinking about it.
He feels the same. We are on the same page so there is no pressure.

theatoz Wed 29-Jan-14 21:27:28

I had an EA which turned to a physical and EA. we both left our spouses 8 months ago and have been together since.
I'm not proud of our behaviour although both our exes seem (and say they are) happy. Both marriages were having big problems.

It's been a rollercoaster. We are very in love but it has been hard. We kept it quiet for a long time as we didn't tell anyone we had an affair.

Anyway - PM me if you like. I know what you're Going through

AuntieStella Wed 29-Jan-14 21:34:52

If you're meeting up with him for "dates and things" that amounts to jumping straight into a relationship with him.

Are you sure that's a good idea?

Livingthedaydream Wed 29-Jan-14 21:40:07

No it's not really overly relationshipy. We have both calmed down the txting as well so we can have a bit of breathing space. We really were txting, calling chatting all throughout the day. Now he is lodging in the city we work we can no longer liftshare so that is less time together too.

At the moment we are just supporting each other through the break-ups. We can't talk to many people about it, or the ones we can dont know the full picture. So we really are offloading on to each other. Not great but we don't have anyone else.

Theatoz - thanks for your post. I have no doubt in my mind that my partner will be much happier in the coming months. Even MM's wife seemed to know what was coming and even though she is sad I think she knows its right for them too. If we do become a proper couple we won't be making it public for a good year or two. The thought of that is hard but I don't want to cause upset to the other people now.

AuntieStella Wed 29-Jan-14 22:35:15

You may not see it as "overly relationshipy" but you have jumped straight into a relationship with him.

How about taking a few months sabbatical and really striking out by yourself?

Lagoonablue Wed 29-Jan-14 22:44:27

I think I was in one around 15 yrs ago with a guy from work. I spent a lot of time with him, always spent lunch time with him. Went out after work with him. I was in denial I think. He obviously had feelings for me but it was all unspoken. I had strong feelings for him but couldn't admit them to myself. Everyone at work could see what was happening. We were together all of the time at work, well actual work allowing.

We didn't text as mobiles weren't as common then. It only stopped when I moved jobs. It was only then I realised what had been happening. There was no physical contact at all to be fair but if DH had have done this I would be livid. DH has no idea it happened.

Tonandfeather Thu 30-Jan-14 00:57:21

This seems to be a very wordy, sanitised way of saying that you dumped your partners and lied to them about there being no-one else involved - and quickly booked 2 nights in a hotel together.

You're deluding yourself massively if you think keeping your relationship secret is to avoid upsetting the other people involved. You're keeping it a secret so that neither of you get exposed as cheats. Your guy might also be keeping it a secret from his wife in case it falls flat with you and he wants to go back.

Unless you spoke to his wife, you don't know that she "saw it coming". That's just what he says.

She's probably being advised by her women pals now that there's another woman involved. I hope she gets the evidence she needs of that too.

Livingthedaydream Thu 30-Jan-14 06:21:15

I've seen the messages between them. And no he had to book a hotel before moving in to colleagues house so I just went to be with him. We didn't do anything. Also, Yeh we didn't tell them about us obviously because why would we when they didn't need to know? But we also did not want to hurt them anymore than was needed. I needed to break up with my partner anyway as I was so unhappy and it wasn't just about MM

Glowbuggy Thu 30-Jan-14 06:56:22

I have a feeling you are going to get so fucked over.

Look after yourself!

sensitivesituation2 Thu 30-Jan-14 07:13:36

Thanks Living.

Thanks for the update, a lot has happened in your lives in a short time. Like Glow says, take care of yourself......

Paddlingduck Thu 30-Jan-14 09:15:31

You have written that you were 'having a laugh,' and a 'good night,' in a hotel. A difficult image when I am also picturing his poor wife and children.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Thu 30-Jan-14 09:49:38

You did the right thing to break up with your partner who you were unhappy with.

You say you are going to take it slowly with new guy but it doesn't look slowly from the outside. Anything could happen with him, but I really would suggest getting some distance between you, concentrating on yourself and your friendships for a bit, if possible. A break-up with children is VERY different from a break up without and it is likely to turn very messy.

Tonandfeather Thu 30-Jan-14 11:24:21

I have a feeling that this guy's WIFE is going to get fucked over. The poster knows the score, she doesn't.

All because the poster and this guy have decided the exes "don't need to know" there was an affair. Worse still, presenting those lies as an act of altruism!

Which is why I hope the guy's wife finds out about you, poster. Because apart from not wanting character traits of dishonesty and lying to be exposed, the main reason guys don't tell their wives and family there's someone else is to keep a safety net if their new romance fails.

Better that his wife knows the true character of this guy so that she can tell him to go away and stay away if he ever wants to come back.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 30-Jan-14 17:25:50

I don't agree that men or women decide to keep an affair 'secret' for reasons of returning home should their new romance fail. What husband/wife would accept a returning spouse - for any reason?

I can totally see the benefit of 'keeping quiet' because if you didn't confess at the start of an affair, blurting it out at the end of a relationship isn't going to make the other person feel any better, is it? Why can't people be free to just end their relationships without a full-blown autopsy? All that telling the partner of the 'other person' would bring is unhealthy comparison. I know that there are posters who disagree with this and think full disclosure is the only way but, not their call, it's OP's call, the MM's call, nobody else's, not even the other partners involved.

If a relationship is over then it's over. It only needs one of the pair to decide that. It's up to the leaving partner to decide what they tell, how much they tell, etc. The important bit is to actually tell the other person that it is over. This, they have done.

Living... read Thisisaghostlyeuphemism's post carefully. I think she's right about the fact that you ought to be pulling right away at the moment, concentrate on your other relationships/friendships. I said in a previous post that you're not starting from quite the same position as anybody else getting together with somebody. You're not - this is it, the 'pinch point' - and it needs careful handling if you really think this is going somewhere. I think that you should both be taking a little time to reflect on your ended relationships - not necessarily grieve them, people make all kinds of assumptions about the need for that - but just reflection and thinking about how you will not bring past mistakes to your next relationship. You have all the time in the world now, the rest of your lives, there's no rush.

Tonandfeather Thu 30-Jan-14 17:44:54

What husband/wife would accept a returning spouse - for any reason?

Loads of people. 2 friends of mine did. There is another thread at the moment about a man who left very suddenly and the poster has no actual evidence of an affair, but would take him back if he wanted to return.

Are you really saying you've never heard of that?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 30-Jan-14 17:56:18

Not from any people with their self-esteem intact, Ton, no.

If my husband wanted to leave without talking to me beforehand about our relationship I'd let him go and that would be that. Why would I be at the beck and call of somebody who didn't think I was worth a conversation with when it mattered?

Tonandfeather Thu 30-Jan-14 18:39:00

I'm with you on that of course - although I don't think anyone knows what they'd do till it happened - but I thought you were suggesting this turn of events never occurs. Apols if not.

I wouldn't be that harsh on why women take men back though, or on women with shattered self-esteem. There's often a lot of pressure on women to make allowances for men's "mental health breakdowns" or stress coping with balancing careers and family life. Women are also statistically more likely to be left with more childcare and less money when a husband leaves suddenly.

I can't help comparing the poor poster in the other thread who's clinging to beliefs that her husband is having a breakdown and doesn't mean what he says, to the sheer selfishness on this one. It would help that other poster so much if she could see her husband more clearly instead of having sympathy for his mental health.

The sort of anger and self-assuredness you talk about (I'd let him go) often only kicks in when an affair is finally discovered. When my friends found out what had really been going on, they were MAGNIFICENT in their long overdue contempt for the liars they'd been making allowances for.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 30-Jan-14 18:55:45

Ton... I was gender-neutral on that; I don't think any person serves themselves well by taking back somebody who chose to leave.

It happened to me so I speak from experience and I disagree with you about being harsh on women. Women have the lionshare of child-rearing responsibility, they just do. There are fewer women who leave a family than men who do the same, it's a fact. As that is a sad fact it's obvious that lone-parent women have the greater responsibility for parenting (and are so acknowledged by the courts in the UK), that this responsibility translates to making sure their children grow up with healthy self-esteem. Fairly or unfairly, that means that the children are the first consideration, rather than the wishes of the left parent or those of he errant ex partner.

I don't believe the content of many of the threads here; I think some posters have been conditioned to accepting and expecting congratulation for their 'strength' in the face of adversity and that's not healthy. It skews their posting in terms of what they perceive their audience wants to read. Nobody knows whether that poster's partner had an affair or not so speculation is pointless.

I don't understand your last point. I don't believe that affairs are routinely discovered; I don't believe that the majority of them are. Whether somebody has an affair or not if they leave their partner and are admitted back into the relationship, that's no demonstration of 'magnificence' to me from either party.

Tonandfeather Thu 30-Jan-14 19:16:17

You have some very odd views.

But I won't debate with you any longer because we are miles apart in our understanding of women's issues, equal rights and whether lying to partners at the end of a relationship is acceptable. You seem to think it is. I don't.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 30-Jan-14 19:23:06

I think it's up to individuals to decide for themselves, Ton, nobody has the right to dictate that. Affair partners, by virtue of what they are doing, are lying to their partners all the way through the affair. If they don't confess it and end their primary partnerships then disclosure will add nothing but pain. Better for them all to keep quiet and let their ex-partner find peace and happiness elsewhere.

Skirting over your rather rude assessment of my views because they don't accord with your own, yes please do feel free to ignore them in future, I won't be in the least offended.

For what it's worth I think disclosure or not is a very individual thing and highly dependent upon the circumstances. Honesty is the best policy imho but in real life I do understand that this is easier said than done on occasions having lived through xh's affair. Life is complicated.

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