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H won't go- stepped up the manipulation another level

(151 Posts)
PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 11:01:59

Beginning of Nov I told him to leave, he said he won't go, said we can fix things
He's a liar, cheat. Whores, strippers, fwb.
I cannot forgive or forget what he's done.
He was supposed to have found somewhere by now, I've been at my parents
He has threatened suicide
On Wed, he text me to tell me he thought he was having a heart attack, I was 5 hours away
The hospital is 10 minutes
He went to work yesterday, wouldn't go to hospital last night
Supposedly taking himself now
But all huffy and big sighs, presumably because I'm showing no emotion, didnt even go up the stairs

He's a liar, the things he's lied about before are shocking.
I have to keep telling myself it's just another controlling manipulative method
But it's so hard

Can you help me through this

Joules68 Sat 04-Jan-14 11:12:40

Who owns the house?

Dc involved? Might be better for you to go instead. I had to when my ex threatened suicide. He also upped it. Started making half hearted attempts. I had to leave and change my number.

colditz Sat 04-Jan-14 11:15:34

If he says he's having a heart attack, call an ambulance to wherever he is. If he threatens to commit suicide, wait until he actually attempts it and then call an ambulance ot wherever he is.

Get the idea into his head that these are serious illnesses and that you are in no way able to fix them. He needs a medical professional.

Allergictoironing Sat 04-Jan-14 11:28:51

Please read THIS thread. Should give you a fair idea of a) how common this is, part of The Script, and b) coping mechanisms others have employed for this type of emotional blackmail.

The supposed heart attack & any similar suggestions of life threatening illnesses are part and parcel of the same thing, ways to tug at your heartstrings & let him back in.

The simple fact that he didn't get himself to hospital right away but left it a whole day including going to work, should be enough proof that it's just another of his lies.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 11:29:17

We own house jointly
I don't have any funds to leave or anywhere to go
Family is hours away

He's at the hospital now

My manipulative ex used to pull the "I'm having a heart attack" routine whenever I said something that he didn't like. Wanker. As a previous poster said, part of the script.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Sat 04-Jan-14 12:56:53

Not nice I know but when my extremely violent ex tried both if these I asked him to wait while I made popcorn and sat down to watch.

I do not recommend this approach though as obviously it can turn very nasty. Mine just called me an unfeeling bitch and walked out in a strop. To be fair after ten years of beating me he probably realised that beating me up for taking the piss wouldn't have any effect.

A lot of them do it. It's as if they don't know what will happen when you find out about the lying and cheating and tell them to leave.

On a side note I called the police to the one time the threatened suicide and they got him sectioned.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 12:59:10

Is the divorce process underway? Do you have a good solicitor? Hope he recovers from what ails him but don't let it divert you from your objective.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 12:59:39

So they are doing tests

Possible blood clot
He flew long haul last week, that's the first thing they'd check

Now what do I do?

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:01:26

It doesn't make any difference to the split whether he's sick or well does it?

doasyouwouldbedoneby Sat 04-Jan-14 13:02:21

Nothing-absolutely nothing.

As far as you are concerned you are seperated but living in the same house.
Heartless but perhaps you non action will get the message across

FreakinAllAboutSugar Sat 04-Jan-14 13:06:31

How do you know this, OP? Are you at the hospital with him?

Just having visions of him texting from the hospital cafe, trying to make you sweat.

Even if it's true, you did not give him a blood clot an it has no bearing on your split.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:09:10

You could always tell him to ask one of his hookers/FWBs/stippers to visit with the grapes... smile

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:11:01

Does he have an up to date will? Life insurance? <clouds and silver linings etc>

Mellowandfruitful Sat 04-Jan-14 13:11:49

If he has a blood clot he will be kept in for treatments for a few days with anticoagulants. Nothing you can do that is appropriate for a lying cheating partner.

RandomMess Sat 04-Jan-14 13:16:37

Suggest that he moves into a houseshare so he's not alone should something medical happen winkgrin

gamerchick Sat 04-Jan-14 13:20:03

Ignore him OP. Even if there is something wrong with him. It'll send him a clear message I should think.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 13:22:34

He's expecting me to go to the hospital, so he probably is there
I think there's also a possibility that he's doing this for time off work
I hate saying that out loud.

An ex wife would show some sympathy surely?

I have seen solicitor but not started anything yet. Was hoping he'd go quietly and quickly

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:24:44

Only the sympathy you'd show for any sick person. He showed you no sympathy when he was with his whores, strippers and FWBs did he? No hospital visits. This is a power game now and rushing to his side will make him feel he has power over you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:25:21

Get the solicitor to draw up the papers. It won't make him worse.

Ignore him.

Not your problem any more.

doasyouwouldbedoneby Sat 04-Jan-14 13:26:34

An ex wife would show some sympathy surely? ummmm NO

where was his sympathy and understanding of you when he was with his fbw whores and strippers.

Treat him just as he has treated you. Please do not get sucked in to this drama.

Ignore

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 13:27:41

Yeah, I think I'll just go back to solicitor and start the process

gamerchick Sat 04-Jan-14 13:29:51

Yes don't get sacked in to hospital things. He's just good hands.

Show sympathy all you want.. just keep it polite and via other none in the flesh means.

gamerchick Sat 04-Jan-14 13:30:05

*sucked

RandomMess Sat 04-Jan-14 13:30:54

Good choice. You have shown him sympathy by answering his phone calls after treating you so awfully for years.

cece Sat 04-Jan-14 13:35:41

With regards to getting him out of the house, I would get the solicitor on the case asap. Can they force someone out of the house legally?

Lovingfreedom Sat 04-Jan-14 13:39:27

As others have said these are standard tactics for a controlling partner reeling you back in. Resist. The NHS will sort him out if there's really anything wrong with him.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 13:44:50

A solicitor can't exactly force someone out of the house but, by processing the divorce, this sets a lot of things in train ... financial settlements, house sales, etc.... that make it far more difficult for Mr Sticky McSticky to cling on by the fingertips. The police OTOH can exclude someone if they become aggressive.

cece Sat 04-Jan-14 13:57:29

OK, wasn't sure how it works. Thanks for clarifying.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 14:20:34

No problem with heart or lungs
He's clear to come home

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 14:21:36

Now at some point he's going to give me grief for bit taking him/not caring etc
Oh joy

colditz Sat 04-Jan-14 14:25:13

"I don't have to care, I'm not yr wife any more because you treated me appalling y and I want you to leave"

-- wah wah suicide blah--

""No, I don't care, I'm not obliged to care, I have no duty of care to you and I want you to leave"

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 04-Jan-14 14:28:19

Just keep pushing forward with the divorce

No big surprises here

Watch out for him getting physical when his attempts at emotional blackmail fall on deaf ears. The minute that happens, call the police

Twiggy71 Sat 04-Jan-14 14:29:32

Honestly just show him from now on in the way things will be your relationship in over. He treated you cruelly and never showed you any concern when he was playing away. My exh five years later still tries to manipulate me through his ill health or any other way he can. Stand up to him now and save yourself a lifetime of his moaning and sob stories I wish I had..

Good luck. x

Walkacrossthesand Sat 04-Jan-14 14:35:51

A youngish person complains of chest pain soon after a long haul flight. The modern health service will run lots of tests on a 'just in case' basis - that doesn't make him any more seriously ill than he was before the tests were done. Tests were negative so what he had was unexplained chest pain could be attention-seeking/'stress'. Not 'I could have died and you wouldn't have cared'. Nothing to stop you visiting him, if you feel so inclined, if he's critically ill on a life-support machine - but you are no longer his 'support' for everyday blips, he lost that when he dicked around. Tough.

Patilla Sat 04-Jan-14 14:41:35

He isn't within your circle of people you care for any more.

Disengage and get on with your plans for the day.

Personally I'd be out when he gets home living it up at the sales or going for a nice swim/walk/coffee.

clam Sat 04-Jan-14 14:48:59

Why is the fact that the hospital "ran tests" any more cause for concern? It's standard procedure. He told them he had pain; they checked it out. Negative. Go home time-waster.

pointythings Sat 04-Jan-14 15:47:15

Just keep on with the divorce. He's had all the sympathy he deserves from you and more - he deserves none IMO. Grow that shell around yourself for a while, until he is out of your life and work towards getting rid of him so that you can start living the life you deserve. You are not unfeeling and uncaring, you are protecting yourself.

Lweji Sat 04-Jan-14 16:14:19

At this point I'd confirm that I couldn't care less if he was alive or death.

And if he did die, it would make things easier.

(ok, I wouldn't, really, at least the last part, but would definitely think it)

In any case, do tell him that even though you are still in the same house, you are separated, you want distance from him and he should not rely on you for anything. Then show him some nice flats/houses you found for him.

Be prepared for having to leave yourself for peace of mind, though.

happytalk13 Sat 04-Jan-14 16:43:00

Keep up with not engaging with his behaviour - you are doing a grand job at that. He wants control back, wants you to jump through his hoops. I'd only do contact through e-mail at this point - for me it helps to remain dis-engaged.

As for sympathy - the closest I'd get to that is, "Oh, I'm sorry you're feeling unwell. Hope you can get it sorted." Nothing more.

Allergictoironing Sat 04-Jan-14 17:03:50

An ex wife would show some sympathy surely?

A CURRENT wife might, but the important word in your question there is "ex". Mild sympathy by all means, as in "oh sorry to hear you are ill" (if he really is) & maybe send a very neutral get well soon card if he's actually in hospital for any length of time for a procedure, but certainly no more than you might for a work associate or casual acquaintance.

As others above said - if there was anything really wrong with him, the hospital would have kept him in or at least given him a referral so he can wave that under your nose & say "see, I really am ill now pander to my every desire". They sent him home with a clean bill of health, so he should be fine.

RandomMess Sat 04-Jan-14 17:04:50

When he just tries to give you grief, I'd raise your eyebrows and say "why do you think I would care after everything you put me through, IT IS OVER"

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 04-Jan-14 17:06:36

I think the best thing is to default to the "If you don't like it, then fuck off like you said you would" every time he whines about how "unsupportive" you are

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 17:28:00

So he came home by himself
I honestly didnt think there was anything wrong with him, but there's always a tiny doubt
Anyway, took 5 minutes before he was shouting at me because I opened a letter for him by mistake( genuine)
That led on to a bigger row, with me trying to explain that he doesn't get to complain about anything I do/say/don't do anymore
One of the things he complained about was that I didn't take ds out shopping to buy presents for him
I had to point out that he's lucky he got anything at all

So he's not backing down, says he wants me. Blah blah
I've told him he disgusts me, can't look at him, don't want him anywhere near me

Says he will get hotel, not ready to get flat yet, whatever just get out
I want a clean break, I think hotels is just prolonging the agony and I can't move on, but if he needs a hotel for 2 wks, it's the same price as rent.
Part of the problem is that he doesn't think he can afford it, he can. He's delusional.
He actually should speak to a solicitor. Because right now he has no clue

He's gone to get some food

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 04-Jan-14 17:31:12

food for what ?

pointythings Sat 04-Jan-14 17:33:48

As long as you are not cooking meals for him, he can get what he damn well wants. He needs to know that he is not welcome, so you do nothing for him - not cooking, not laundry, nothing at all. And if he fucks off to a hotel at least he is gone.

Have you made sure that he cannot get run off with all the money and that you have copies of all the paperwork relating to home ownership etc.? He could turn nasty any time, be ready.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 17:39:36

I'd be packing his suitcase and cheerily waving him off before he changes his mind on the hotel idea. Once he's out of the house it would be a great big opportunity to keep him out.

BTW... Someone has to actually have a heart to have heart problems smile

GoldfishCrackers Sat 04-Jan-14 17:44:22

He's not very imaginative, is he? He's following the script to the letter. (Nice-nasty-'now I'm having a heart attack' cycle). You might even find that he pretends to be suicidal next. None of this is very attractive, and even if it were, it wouldn't make up for the lying and cheating.
OP he's not the sort of man whose opinion matters on anything - especially not how to treat people. You're doing the right thing, don't doubt yoursel.

AcrossthePond55 Sat 04-Jan-14 18:12:44

Frankly, I'd have a locksmith on speed dial for the next time he leaves the house! My best friend was in a similar situation and it dragged out so long that she ended up leaving their jointly owned home to preserve her sanity (and her DS). My own DH got her H out for the day on a pretext whilst a group of us moved her unbeknownst to him, as he had told her 'you will leave when I tell you you can leave' and had threatened to harm her. He ended up stopping paying the mortgage and they lost the house to foreclosure. She said if she had it to do again, she would have spent that day changing the locks and putting his belongings in the yard in bags instead of moving herself.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 20:14:32

He just doesn't get that we can't spend time together anymore, it's just row after row
He's just lost patience with ds over colouring in a poster fgs

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 20:15:15

Acrossthepond- I don't like that story

Bogeyface Sat 04-Jan-14 20:22:13

Are you aware that he can only control you if you let him?

He cant argue if you dont argue back. He cant stop you doing anything, or make you do anything, unless you let him. He can strop and sulk and threaten suicide as much as he likes but the fact is, unless you give in to his blackmail there is NOTHING he can do.

I suggest that you simply ignore him. Let him sort out his own food, washing etc and do not engage. When he realises that you will not rise to his attempted manipulation he will soon get bored and that is when he will move out. Sadly, without a court order you can't force him out, but what you can do is make life so crap for him while he is there that he wants to leave. And in the meantime get your solicitor on the case for the court order.

Oh and if he threatens suicide again I suggest you call 101 and tell them that you are worried after what he said. A swift bollocking from the police should stop that little trick in its tracks.

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 20:29:55

Hopefully if I get through this weekend it'll be ok
I think he will go, but it will just take some time to sink in
Bogey- yes I shouldn't react/respond but it's so hard not to call him on his bullshit

Bogeyface Sat 04-Jan-14 20:36:24

Oh I know, I had similar with my ex, I had to literally bite the insides of my mouth at times to stop reacting.

I found saying the same thing over and over helped such as "As I have said, our marriage is over so there is no point discussing X" it drove him to distraction that I simply would not engage.

pointythings Sat 04-Jan-14 20:40:47

I second the broken record approach. it works with toddlers and frankly, your STBXH is not far off that level, is he?

Joules68 Sat 04-Jan-14 20:42:04

Start packing his stuff for him. He will need a bit of a push

PPaka Sat 04-Jan-14 23:04:16

God give me strength

He told me tonight that he would suffer anything, cut off his arm if he could take back the hurt
Well, yes, I'd probably do that too, cut off my own arm if it meant I could forget your bullshit from the last 5 years.
But it's bit going to happen is it? So it's fucking pointless, it means nothing
Instead why don't you actually do something, yes physically do something that will help, you know like something I've asked, like fucking moving out
Or no, why don't you hang around and make me more miserable, because its what you want

He's making it very clear that he doesn't care what you want. He is only interested in himself. A decent man who had made a mistake would be doing anything you asked, including moving out straight away.
Just ignore this man completely; leave the room when he speaks, don't answer the phone to him if he's out of the house. You've told him the marriage is over, you don't need to engage any further. He won't be obliging enough to actually die.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 04-Jan-14 23:39:41

Did you hand him a saw? Take photos if he does it won't you?.... worth a mint in the darker corners of YouTube grin

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Sun 05-Jan-14 00:43:30

Sgb and cogito ... envy

grin

Meerka Sun 05-Jan-14 08:40:02

Well, yes, I'd probably do that too, cut off my own arm if it meant I could forget your bullshit from the last 5 years.

did you say that too him? Because it's really nicely put!

RandomMess Sun 05-Jan-14 09:03:40

"That's nice, when are you moving out?"

PPaka Sun 05-Jan-14 10:49:13

I did say that Meerka

Because I had to point out that it's just words

Bogeyface Sun 05-Jan-14 11:50:22

Stop engaging!

He will keep going with this because he knows that you will respond and eventually he thinks he will wear you down enough so you let him stay and do whatever he likes just to shut him up.

As Random says "Thats nice, when are you moving out?" is the perfect response to anything he says. Broken record technique.

PPaka Sun 05-Jan-14 15:09:21

Well I haven't spoken to him today, mainly because he didnt get up til 12.45

AnyFucker Sun 05-Jan-14 16:08:13

How/why is that notable ?

Lovey, disengage

I am not sure you are getting it.

happytalk13 Sun 05-Jan-14 16:51:59

OP - this link might help you see why disengaging is so very important for your sanity and general wellbeing

lightshouse.org/lights-blog/why-its-smart-to-let-toxic-people-have-the-last-word#axzz2pXlbKMDh

AcrossthePond55 Sun 05-Jan-14 16:59:43

I'm sorry PPaka. I didn't mean to upset you, really. I think I was just trying to point out that you need to decide what is really important to you (keeping the house vs keeping your sanity) and I guess I didn't do it in the right way. You are in a really tough position, especially if it's important to you to keep your house. And I totally understand you wanting to do that! It would be easy if all you had to do to be rid of him was to move, yourself. But if you really want to keep the house, you have a tough row to hoe. It isn't easy to ignore someone who is right next to you, loudly and pointedly demanding your attention. It's frustrating to try to remain silent instead of answering back. Is there anyone who has any influence on him? Anyone who can help give you any leverage in moving him out? Right now he's in the catbird seat. He knows he doesn't really have to go anywhere and that, unfortunately, he has all the time he wants to try to wear you down. If there's no way, legally or illegally (like changing the locks?) to make him leave, your only hope is to find someone (family member, friend, solicitor) who can reach him and make him see the truth.

PPaka Sun 05-Jan-14 17:49:12

It was relevant because I thought he might get out of bed and do something with his son who he's hardly seen for 3 weeks
Acrossthepond, don't worry, I'm not upset, but it's something to keep in the back of my mind. But he would get into trouble if mortgage wasn't paid as its linked up to his work
If he gave up work, everything would have to go on the market immediately.
Also I just read that someone's divorce cost £25k because everything was contested. I don't want that either
Happytalk, thanks for that link, it's v true
But it's very hard when in the same house
It'll be easier, he's booked hotel

AnyFucker Sun 05-Jan-14 17:53:09

His relationship with his son is his own affair.

happytalk13 Sun 05-Jan-14 18:05:19

Glad to hear he's booked a hotel....don't let him wheedle back in once he's gone. I'd be inclined to change the locks.

As AF said - it's not up to you to be the keeper of his paternal relationship with his son; that's his business. Him mucking about not bothering is likely to be another way to try to get you to engage because he knows it will bother you - exH still pulls this shit almost 3 years since he walked out of our lives. Leave him to it.

AnyFucker Sun 05-Jan-14 18:07:46

Have you laid actual eyes on this hotel booking ?

Bogeyface Sun 05-Jan-14 18:26:00

You dont have to change the locks, that isnt legal but you can add a lock and then "forget" to give him a key.

AcrossthePond55 Sun 05-Jan-14 18:55:14

Bogeyface, I like the way you think!

Ppaka, I hope he goes to the hotel pronto. You need breathing space and time to think!

PPaka Mon 06-Jan-14 08:48:54

Well he's gone
But not after reverting to type last night
Shouting, threatening to resign, threatening suicide, why should he get kicked out of the house that He has worked hard to pay for, blah blah
I'm exhausted

Jux Mon 06-Jan-14 09:08:38

I'm glad he's gone; are the children back at school today? Try to get some rest now. Then evaluate what you need to do to secure your position. Think of it as protecting the children, which it is.

Ignore him. He will no doubt develop a few terminal illnesses, promise you the earth and so on. None of it is worth attention.

Stay strong. thanks

MistressDeeCee Mon 06-Jan-14 09:25:01

He had no sympathy for you when he was with whores & strippers. Not an ounce of respect for you, and the relationship between the 2 of you. What does he want now? The ongoing comfort of a home and a wife to 'do' for him, whilst he gets on with his sordid 'outside' life? If the whores and the fwb were more important than his marriage I suggest he gets dialling so as to have them flock to his hospital bed in his hour of need. Yawwwwwn re. the usual script though. Manipulative nonsense, I remember when my whoring gambling abusive ex actually (very carefully) put a rope around his neck and stood in my peripheral vision telling me he was going to hang himself as I wanted rid of him. This was 7 years ago he is still very much alive and whinging - but not to me, thankfully...not my problem smile

glasgowsteven Mon 06-Jan-14 09:50:56

Well if he hactually does have a heart attack and dies or commit suicide will make staying in the house easier

Tell him that

and then he will realise you really dont care!!!

PPaka Mon 06-Jan-14 09:58:14

Back to school tomorrow
So one last day out

Need the routine and normality back

PPaka Mon 06-Jan-14 10:02:01

GS- he's said that himself
He's threatened suicide in the context of "if he can't live with us , then he'd rather be dead"
But also, "we'll, I've been such an c"unt, the least I could do is kill myself and you can have the insurance money"

happytalk13 Mon 06-Jan-14 10:07:58

Then he'd better get on with checking his policy's suicide clause in case there's a waiting period grin

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Mon 06-Jan-14 11:32:18

Insurers don't usually pay out for suicides, mores the pity

Jux Mon 06-Jan-14 17:52:00

Yep, suicide won't help anyone, but luckily he isn't going to do it. It's just a threat to get you worried and to keep himself right in the centre of you attention.

Happily, you are far too busy having one last day out with ds before school returns.

Tomorrow? oh what a multitude of possibilities you have before you! Change the house a bit - move furniture around, paint a wall a different colour, get new bedding that YOU like which you would never have chosen before as he wouldn't like it...... the choices are endless. It's symbolic of a new beginning, so try to do something no matter how small.

PPaka Mon 06-Jan-14 20:53:04

Had great day with ds
Felt truly happy singing with him in the car

Then came home realised the roof is leaking do was in the phone for an hour
Then on phone to bank for half an hour, completely unnecessary- stupid inefficient systems

But now I'm on my couch, watching what I want, eating what I want
Jux- I think I will change the furniture around, just taken tree and decs down, so good opportunity

pointythings Mon 06-Jan-14 21:35:53

You sound so much more positive now! When someone like your H leaves, it's like a cloud lifting and it's as if you never realised how dark it has been and for how long. The changes you make now will give you the strength to see this through to the end, and your freedom. flowers

Jux Mon 06-Jan-14 22:20:42

So glad you had a good day. Yes yes to taking advantage of taking the tree down - perfect!

Hope you get a good rest tonight. Tomorrow's another day; new beginnings can be a bit rollercoasterish, but can be fun, empowering, exciting.

Hang in there and enjoy the new road you've set your feet upon.

PPaka Tue 07-Jan-14 20:26:30

Really pissed off
He's phoned 3 times, "to speak to ds"
And just sent me texts saying he loves me blah blah

I am ignoring, but it's not fair
I just want him to leave me alone

RandomMess Tue 07-Jan-14 20:58:54

Time for a new sim card wink

pointythings Tue 07-Jan-14 21:01:37

Yep, agree with RandomMess. Change of number for you.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 07-Jan-14 21:25:10

Have you changed the locks, front and back?
I wouldn't put it past him to come snooping round.
You have done brilliantly, what a strong person you are.
It is going to be your year upwards and onwards.

PPaka Tue 07-Jan-14 22:08:35

I need to check with the solicitor about changing locks and reasonable contact
I need to just keep the peace for the time being
Talking to ds 3 times a day isn't reasonable is it?

Lweji Tue 07-Jan-14 22:12:14

No, it's not reasonable.

You can get a new sim card, or ask to have a new number. And maybe get a cheap PAYG phone for DS, which you turn on only for about 1 hour per day, or at set times during the week if he wants to talk to him.

pointythings Tue 07-Jan-14 22:13:19

No, talking to DS 3 times a day is not reasonable. Especially since he hasn't seemed all that bothered before.

Once a day is quite enough, and it should be at a time of your choosing, to fit in with your DS's routines. It sounds as if your STBX is trying to play the 'wonderful, engaged dad' card. All part of the script.

whitsernam Tue 07-Jan-14 22:14:04

Sometimes you just might be too busy to answer the phone, or not have a free hand, or be out! I miss calls just taking out the trash... or having a shower, brushing my teeth, and I'm not trying to avoid anyone.

Jux Tue 07-Jan-14 22:16:56

New sim. Keep the current one though just for him, so you won't even need to tell him you've got a new one. Then he can text to his heart's content without bothering you.

Text him back reiterating that you are now separated and ask him to stop contacting you. Keep all his texts, keep records of any contact you have with him. You say he is controlling and manipulative, so this is important, as he is likely to become unpleasant when he can't manipulate you into doing what he wants any more. If he does, do not hesitate to tell the police.

Have you been to the solicitor yet? Get those papers drawn up and served.

Bogeyface Tue 07-Jan-14 22:22:33

Ex talks to the older DDs several times a day and they text, but they are 16 and 11.

How old is your DS? Is he old enough to have his own phone, just a £10 one that you keep in the house for ex to call him on? That way he has no reason to contact you other than to arrange contact. If you say to him that in order to avoid misunderstandings you want to arrange contact via email or text then he has no reason to call you at all. Of course he will, but as long as you dont answer, he cant do anything about it.

PPaka Tue 07-Jan-14 22:29:56

He's only 6
He doesn't know daddy's gone yet
It's actually quite difficult because he really isn't interested in talking to him, and I'm having force him a bit
A new sim means a new number doesn't it?
I've had my number for 10 years!

He won't accept that we're separated, he started to tell me before that he was sure he could fix it

Why/how did I get myself involved in this
It's so fucked up

Bogeyface Tue 07-Jan-14 23:42:57

6 is old enough for him to have his own mobile that you keep at home for Daddy to call him on. But given that he doesnt want to talk to Daddy I would make sure that you say (in earshot of the phone) "Daddy is on the phone, do you want to talk to him?" and if he says no you can then say "Sorry, he doesnt want to talk to you right now, you can call just before bed at Xpm if you want to try again, goodbye".

And yes, it does mean a new number, so your alternative is an email saying that you will only accept calls for him to speak to your son as Xpm every day and that you will only discuss contact arrangement by text or email and that you will not answer calls from him. Then, when you dont answer or respond to calls/texts/emails about anything else, he will eventually get the message.

Jux Wed 08-Jan-14 00:32:21

If you want to keep your number, then do as Bogeyface suggests. He'll still call and text whenever he wants to, but you will have told him not to keep calling, so you will have grounds to get other agencies involved if it comes to it.

Of course, he may cooperate! We live in hope hmm grin

AcrossthePond55 Wed 08-Jan-14 00:33:26

Can you block his number on your phone? My iPhone 5s has that option and it can be set so that a blocked number won't go to voice mail, either. You could tell STBX that he can call his son at a specific time, then unblock his number at that time for maybe a half hour for him to call. Or tell him that you will dial the phone for your DS at a specific time for him to speak to his father. And I agree to let him overhear when his son says he doesn't want to speak to him. I think that, itself, speaks volumes. My DH worked out of town when our DS2 was that age and he would practically bowl me over to get to the phone to talk to his dad. For your DS to not care to talk to his father reinforces that you have done the right thing!

Bigbrassband Wed 08-Jan-14 05:34:02

I second the blocking idea. If you have an android phone there's an app called Mr Number which can block calls and texts from specific numbers. You can set it to delete messages from blocked numbers so you don't even have to know he's trying to contact you.

AnandaTimeIn Wed 08-Jan-14 05:48:04

Listen to these wise women.

As soon as a controlling man starts trying to reel you back in by threatening suicide it's HIGH TIME to walk away and not care.

Before they take you with them!!! (Yes, it happens).

Sweetheart, this is serious, please get all the family/friends/Womens Aid you can get....

PPaka Wed 08-Jan-14 09:16:05

Thanks
Going to talk to solicitor today
I'm getting more worried, really dreading stepping it up and getting anyone else involved. I'm just dreading it getting nasty

pointythings Wed 08-Jan-14 09:28:24

It will get nasty before it gets better. He's that kind, unfortunately. Every time it does, go back to your original posts and remember why you are divorcing him. Whatever happens, it will be worth it to get rid of him. You're strong and you have the vipers of MN behind you, you will get through this.

PPaka Wed 08-Jan-14 12:57:28

Got solicitors appt for Friday

AcrossthePond55 Wed 08-Jan-14 15:29:20

pointythings is right. It probably will get worse before it gets better. But remember that this 'worse' at least has an ending date (when the divorce is final) as opposed to the fact that your life would have continuously gotten worse, until you died, if you'd stayed with him. Yes, I know that all problems really don't magically disappear when you divorce if there are children involved, but you have the peace of knowing that you are no longer legally tied to the X, and that you lock your door at night with the X on the outside!

Good on seeing the solicitor right away. Before you go, be sure you make a list of the things you want (property, support, stop the excessive calls, the emotional blackmail threats, and such) as well as questions regarding your rights and the actual process of getting a divorce.

Although this may not work for you, my best friend asked me to go with her as an extra 'ear'. Not to 'involve' myself in her business, just to listen, take notes, and remember what she was told or prompt her if she forgot a question she wanted to ask. She was pretty much an emotional wreck and was afraid she'd have a 'brain fart' and not get (or forget) the info she needed. She went over what she wanted with me and gave me her lists beforehand. If you have a friend/relative that can 'shut up' and not insert him/herself into the conversation and who can won't gossip, you may want to think of it.

AcrossthePond55 Wed 08-Jan-14 15:31:45

* should read 'who won't gossip', not who 'can won't gossip. Also, best of luck to you, Ppaka. Stand tall and strong!

PPaka Thu 09-Jan-14 14:38:41

Hating life right now

My house is falling down around me, my marriage is in tatters, H is a liar and I'm so scared of what's around the corner
Car needs best part of 2k spending on it, can't trade it in, (which was the plan) until I know if H will give me any money
I have no money, don't know how I'm going to pay solicitor
She wants £500 tomorrow
I might qualify for legal aid, if I can prove emotional abuse
I think I kept the letter from the police, but it's not an official caution
I think I have documentation from doctors and counselling about his behaviour
If I don't qualify, that's it, I have no money for advice.
What else do I need to take with me?
I'm going to get all the finances written down

I'm constantly holding back tears
My eyes are so sore

I'm fucked

Oh and he text this morning saying he was going into work late, so couldn't phone ds.
So that means he was out on the piss last night, probably making good use of the hotel room. Nice
I'm not responding

And I got sky bill, with £20 worth of porn channels. Charming

Jux Thu 09-Jan-14 15:41:42

Bastard. Block him on your phone except for appointed times.
Get on to CSA now; it takes a while to go through but they'll date it from when you contact them I think. If he decides in the meantime to give you more, you can always stop the claim.
Call Women's Aid. They'll give you moral support in rl, as well as good advice.
The doctor and counsellor and police will have copies, so even if you have lost your docs they will be able to provide them.

Could you just trade the car in and get a cheap old banger for now until you're more sorted?

AcrossthePond55 Thu 09-Jan-14 15:54:47

I don't mean to sound trite, but it's always darkest before the dawn. Try to prioritize. What is most important right now? Shelter, food, legal advice. Other things may have to wait. Is this month's mortgage paid? Is there food in the house? Yes? Good. That's 2 things you don't have to worry about today. One step at a time.

DO tell him you want money and how much you want. Tell him what you need per month to keep the house running and that's what you expect. He owes you, remember that. Yes, he may refuse, but at least you'll know where you stand.

Do you have joint banking? Do you have legal access? If so, go to the bank and withdraw half of what's there and open your own account. If that's legal to do in the UK, of course. At the very least, withdraw what you need for the next few days, if you can.

Apply for legal aid. And call the solicitor and just explain, maybe she'll work with you, maybe not.

Apply for any/all income assistance you may be eligible for. I don't know the ins & outs of the benefits system in the UK but it seems to me you are the what it was designed for. Someone who has suddenly had their financial support taken out from under them. Now is not a time to worry about being 'on benefits'. Now is the time to do what you have to.

As far as the car repairs, put that on the back burner for now, if possible, to worry about later. The sky bill? I think that's like our cable or satellite TV? Maybe you'll have to let that go for now, if you can. Again, prioritize.

Is it at all possible to work part time? I don't know how realistic that is for you, or if it's advisable. In the US it impacts the amount of support you receive.

I think I've seen people on MN advise people to call something called 'Women's Aid'? If it's like our US women's shelters they are invaluable in providing advice and referrals. And lean on friends or family, if you can. Talk to someone, don't isolate yourself. And don't be too proud to share your troubles with a friend or relative. You need emotional support almost as much as you need financial support.

You are NOT fucked, by any means. Yes, you are facing a rough time. But remember, now you have peace (or you will soon). Your home is now void of the turmoil he caused by just being there. Before the kids get up in the morning, feel the quiet. At night after they're in bed, sit for a bit and remember that you aren't sitting there wondering when he'll walk in, drunk or stinking of someone else's perfume. Your door is locked and your home is peaceful. Not worry-free, I know, but peaceful. And that peace will remain as long as you are strong and live one day at a time until this gets sorted. Give yourself some slack. You took the first step and got him out. "You done good" as we say here.

AcrossthePond55 Thu 09-Jan-14 15:56:38

Ha! Jux said what I did, but much more succinctly!

PPaka Thu 09-Jan-14 22:20:53

Thank you
I think things just got on top of me today
I just can't stop thinking about money
I'm so worried
We're not going to starve. I need to get things into perspective
I need a job

pointythings Thu 09-Jan-14 22:36:30

You are allowed to worry, you have had a huge shock. Getting a job is definitely a good idea - it will not just give you money, it will give you some 'fuck you' independence.

You will have more wobbly moments, but you will get through this and out the other side.

happytalk13 Fri 10-Jan-14 03:24:56

In addition to the advice you've had so far...Get yourself on to the job centre and say you need an appointment with a lone parent advisor. You can claim for tax credits and get advice on anything else you may be eligible for.

As for legal aid - apply and see what happens.

Keep all contact from now on through email only - you're going to need evidence of any games he starts to play - and it could prove invaluable plus also to protect yourself if he starts with the oh-so-predictable behaviour of lying about your conduct during the next few months.

Above all - remain polite and detached.

PPaka Fri 10-Jan-14 20:07:04

Saw the solicitor today, I got through it all really well until we got to the finances and then I kinda fell apart
She was great

Then I talked to my mum
Feel so much better now
She said she knows if I've got to this point I must have tried everything

Friend coming over tonight for drinks and laughs

AcrossthePond55 Fri 10-Jan-14 22:15:29

I'm so glad you had a good day. And glad you talked to your mum.

Have fun tonight.

PPaka Sat 11-Jan-14 08:38:10

So, shall we have a guess what time he'll turn up today to see his son?
Stupidly I haven't arranged a time, but actually I think it will be really telling what time he turns up

PPaka Sat 11-Jan-14 09:34:05

Because if it was me I'd be here before ds woke up to snuggle in beside him

PPaka Sat 11-Jan-14 09:50:57

He's not answering his phone
Ds just left him a message

This is really mean

Whocansay Sat 11-Jan-14 10:17:41

I would leave another message saying that if you haven't heard from him by 11am you will assume he isn't coming. And go out. And switch you phone off.

Allergictoironing Sat 11-Jan-14 11:08:26

Be fair Whocansay - he's a guy, probably won't be out of bed until mid day at the earliest. I'd do exactly the same text but give him another hour - poor little lamb will be tired after a week at work screwing anything available and staying in a hotel so no housework [sarcasm mode off]

Cantabile Sat 11-Jan-14 12:02:18

3ish, without further prompting, is my guess.

PPaka Sat 11-Jan-14 12:13:17

He got here about 11

pointythings Sat 11-Jan-14 13:43:01

Just shows you he is sooooo desperate to see his DS, doesn't it? Next time I'd tell him 'get here by X time or we will be out'. And then be out if he's late.

PPaka Sat 11-Jan-14 14:22:51

Well he's been very amenable
Talked about different options for rental
So fingers crossed
My dad called when he was here, I felt awful cos he was so sad for me. H saw that too

AcrossthePond55 Sat 11-Jan-14 21:55:47

Oh good! Hopefully things will smooth out, at least for a little while. I'm glad you've got your parents behind you. We're never too old to need our parents.

RandomMess Sat 11-Jan-14 22:13:45

He could be playing the script, being all nice to try and win you back and forget what an arse he's been. Just be on your guard.

AcrossthePond55 Sat 11-Jan-14 23:34:25

Be aware, yes. But you can also use that to get him to make real concessions to you as far as future support and visitation schedules. Doesn't matter what he 'thinks' he may get out of being Mr Nicey-nice. Only matters what YOU get out of it!

I hope that doesn't sound too awful.

PPaka Sun 12-Jan-14 10:44:26

He really is pushing it now
He stayed here last night because he went to friends house for dinner- our friends
He's still in bed, probably pretty wasted from last night

Jux Sun 12-Jan-14 13:45:34

Has he gone yet?

This could be very confusing for your ds. One minute daddy's around, then he's not, then he is, then he isn't etc. Contact between child and non-resident parent usually works better (for the child) if it takes place outside and away from the home. The child then has a chance of understanding what his world is now - rp in one home and nrp in another. Toing and froing between parents together and parents apart is very confusing and interrupts any equilibrium the child develops.

Try to get ex to understand that, and arrange for contact to be daddy taking ds out. Overnights etc can happen where ex lives - a hotel is fine temporarily as long as ds has a bed. Sofa in someone's sitting room is not fine.

Until ex is sorted with a flat then he takes ds out for the day and brings him back in the evening and then buggers off until next contact.

Normal contact is every other weekend and maybe one day a week after school for a few hours - but still not in your home.

happytalk13 Sun 12-Jan-14 15:29:43

This is completely out of order behaviour - and I can pretty much guarantee that his reasonableness was so you would let him go out to friends and then use the house as a stop-gap (I'm guessing your house is closer to last night's venue than the hotel is?) to grab a kip, a nice long lie in and then possibly some breakfast and if he's really lucky and plays his cards right some nookie. At the very least once he's up and about this will be an opportune time for him to wheedle his way into your good books. He is not thinking at all about his child - how very confusing for your son.

Put your boundaries firmly back up and do not let him walk all over them - which is exactly what he's doing again.

PPaka Sun 12-Jan-14 16:08:47

1pm he got up. Disgraceful
It's not confusing for ds honestly
He is used to his daddy not being here during the week and he's used to daddy sleeping most of the weekend
That's been part of the problem
Ds does not know we are separating, I'm not telling him until I can make a big deal of daddy having a new house.

But I agree, this isn't how it's going to work going forward
This is just the first weekend, and he hasn't got accom sorted and we can't afford a hotel 7 nights a week
He has to change to services apts or get a flat
But I'm furious how he has behaved this weekend and I will be telling him
I just wanted everything to be reasonable
I've been out this afternoon.
But it's also not fair because it means ds hasn't been out today, that's the thing I'm most pissed off with

AcrossthePond55 Sun 12-Jan-14 16:27:21

You do what you feel is right. But letting him stay in the house (IMO) gives him the message that you may be willing to 'forgive and forget', even if you tell him it's only stopgap til he gets his own place. A teensy flicker, but may be enough for him to start up the emotional blackmail you've been enduring recently. And his behaviour today has already ramped up your stress level further.

Is there anyone else he can kip in with? Surely he has at least one single/divorced friend with a spare sofa?

If you wait until he gets his accom sorted himself, you'll probably be waiting a long time as long as he feels he can get you to let him stay there. I'd be looking at the 'to lets' myself and presenting him with a list of affordable options.

RandomMess Sun 12-Jan-14 16:53:30

I can't remember from up thread - is the house rented/mortgaged?

PPaka Sun 12-Jan-14 19:08:21

Mortgaged

I sent him accom links weeks ago, but I think he was thinking I'd calm down over Xmas, so it's only since last week

We had a few words after I came in, but we've since talked about a few things and looked at some places online
together

Acrossthepond, that's why I was dreading the weekend, I knew he'd put this pressure on- utter emotional blackmail
But he can't press any but ions that will make me feel sorry for him or even give a shit, but he can wind me up and make me have to defend myself and get drawn into rows, which is what I dreaded

I've told him he has to make a plan for ds for the weekend
Not rely on coming here and sleeping too long and staying in
He admits he was out of order getting up late today, but disputes yesterday morning because he thought I wouldn't want it to be too early hmm
Yeah cos we're not up at 7am

RandomMess Sun 12-Jan-14 19:16:57

Geez, I'd just move out with ds leave him to it.

File for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour?

SIL managed to get housing benefit for a year when she moved out due to her ex gambling their money away and being an arse/a bit controlling. Worth a shot?

It's not "fair" but he's going to carry on behaving like this I'm afraid.

PPaka Sun 12-Jan-14 21:16:12

I can't move anywhere, I have no funds
Deposit would be 2/3k

I would like to file for divorce, but worried about paying that bill
I will divorce him, it will happen
But right now I'm a bit stuck
We have to agree amicably on what's going to happen, if he won't agree I have to go further with solicitor which I can't afford

RandomMess Sun 12-Jan-14 21:20:48

Hmm SIL got the deposit money through some sort of "deposit loan scheme" through the council.

Go talk to your local housing benefit officer, knowledge is power if he doesn't move out.

AcrossthePond55 Sun 12-Jan-14 22:43:23

Yes, Ppaka, I know what you mean about getting drawn into rows. It's so hard to just keep telling yourself not to respond when you feel you're being attacked or blamed. Just keep telling yourself 'His opinion means nothing to me'.

I'm sure he's just trying to 'wait you out' so he isn't looking too hard for accom, believing you'll take him back when you 'get over it'. And how can you convince someone of something they don't want to believe? I can see that you just pretty much have to let time prove to him that you don't want to let him back in. But time, I think, you have. As long as he's paying for the home expenses and you can keep him at arm's length, you don't need to rush into anything.

And I can understand you wanting to be able to keep the house. Home ownership is a biggie. But I'm sure you will also know if/when the time comes that keeping the house just isn't' worth it to you.

PPaka Mon 13-Jan-14 11:05:08

I knew this was going to be a nightmare and this is just the beginning

AcrossthePond55 Mon 13-Jan-14 16:14:29

I'm not going to try to say that it's all going to be rainbows and lollipops. Undoubtedly, you have some rough times ahead. But the main thing to keep sight of is that there is always day following the darkest night. Keep thinking about the peaceful future. Focus on that. One step at a time. You WILL get through this and will be happier in the end.

PPaka Mon 13-Jan-14 17:17:45

I'm dealing with a psycho, and I don't say that lightly

Meerka Mon 13-Jan-14 17:23:42

Are you safe, PPaka?

If there is any chance of violence, work out a plan as to how to make sure you and your son are safe

PPaka Mon 13-Jan-14 17:50:13

He is a nasty piece of work
He's never been actually violent before, to me

Shouted, kicked doors, punched computer screen once
Thrown a few things

It's the way his mind works that scares me, and how his mood can change so quickly

RandomMess Mon 13-Jan-14 17:58:55

sad

Honestly please speak to you local housing officer if he is being emotional abusive you can leave and get short term help whilst you get him out of the house/sell it/do whatever you need to to be free.

Meerka Mon 13-Jan-14 18:52:16

it sounds as though he could perhaps be violent towards you, so it could be worth just checking with WA and the housing office

AcrossthePond55 Mon 13-Jan-14 20:07:57

Yes, you need to get in touch with Women's Aid. And document, document, document. If he goes off either verbally or physically (even if it's against inanimate objects), call 999. Tell them you fear for your safety. Which you certainly should be fearing for.

I don't mean to frighten you, but escalation in abusive behaviour is more common than not. Having proof of his behaviour may also assist you in legally getting him OUT of the house! Typically here (US) his type of behaviour would result either in arrest or in the police telling him to leave to 'cool off for a day or so'. Then they advise the wife to get a restraining order ASAP so they can keep him out. Hopefully, it's similar there.

Again, I understand you wanting to stay in the home, but nothing is worth your life.

Jux Mon 13-Jan-14 23:00:35

Are you safe?

When he is threatening and intimidating like that, call the police.
If you are frightened of him, call the police.
If he frightens your ds, call the police.

Be sure to tell them there is a young child in the house, too. Tell them that you are separating.

His abuse is escalating. You are not safe with him in the house. See a family lawyer and ask about a non-molestation order.

Call Women's Aid. They will advise you and support you in how you can leave him safely (that doesn't necessarily entail you leaving the house, but would entail keeping him out of it).

Phone 101 and talk to their DV unit.

Has he gone and are you safe?

Please please call the police.

PPaka Tue 14-Jan-14 00:28:46

I'm ok, he's not here, it's fine. He's back in hotel.
I started a diary today, and went back to Nov and wrote down some stuff from then

I will call the police, don't worry
The thought crossed my mind on Sunday with some things he was saying, but he backed down
It's the flashes of anger that scare me, when he can't control what he says, swearing and saying its his fucking house, he'll say what he wants while he pays the mortgage

I spoke with a friend tonight who reassured me that he is coming to terms with it, and looking for somewhere to stay

AcrossthePond55 Tue 14-Jan-14 00:39:28

That diary is a very good idea. And it's good that you have a mutual friend who can help you keep tabs on what he's thinking. Keep that line of communication open, for sure.

It's the flashes of anger than can escalate. Do call the police if he starts in again. You don't have to put up with that behaviour, no matter who is paying the mortgage. You deserve to be treated with dignity.

But, I will say, that if his attitude is that you have to put up with whatever he dishes out because he's paying for things, you may do well, if you can, in getting a job. Much easier said than done, I know. But it's a thought. But even if you can't, you still don't deserve to be treated that way. Nobody does!

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