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Does the OW ever win the married man?

(214 Posts)
Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 13:53:11

Ok so just a question, me and my friends had along convo about this.

Seems that the general view on this is that the other women never get the married man, the man just has the affair because he can and never intends to leave the wife..... I always used to think that to but after reading on here I'm not so sure, seems to be lots of women who have been left for the OW!

What you all think

LunchLadyWannabe Sun 22-Dec-13 13:56:41

Well my friend has been having an affair with a married man, shes known him many many years, been having an affair for around 5 months.

Hes talked non stop about leaving his wife, suppose to be doing it after xmas....

However hes called her today and said hes not sure about leaving his wife because of his family (all his children have flew the nest) and hes now not sure what he wants.

I ve told her many times to get rid of him, but she wont.

LunchLadyWannabe Sun 22-Dec-13 13:57:30

It think maybe its 50/50 whether they leave their wife or not

MorrisZapp Sun 22-Dec-13 13:58:46

I've never met my FIL, he fucked off with OW before I knew DP. So it does happen.

Trigglesx Sun 22-Dec-13 13:59:03

I'm just trying to figure out WHY the OW would want the cheating man. If he cheats on his wife, he'll eventually cheat on the OW.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sun 22-Dec-13 13:59:20

'Win'?

What a prize hmm

TheNightIsDark Sun 22-Dec-13 13:59:24

My step mum did. Unfortunately got the married man he pretty much lost his children.

Backonthefence Sun 22-Dec-13 13:59:27

They certainly can not all of these situations follow a script. Some when wont leave their wives, some do but cheat again and some leave and are very happy with the OW and their relationship lasts.

Lweji Sun 22-Dec-13 14:00:06

I'm not sure winning is the right word.
Who really wants to "win" a cheater?

I think whoever gets him is the loser.

GoldfishCrackers Sun 22-Dec-13 14:00:29

Not much of a prize.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sun 22-Dec-13 14:00:42

It's a big wrench for someone to end a relationship, especially once you throw kids and mortgages into the mix, but it's relatively easy (and inexpensive) to keep an affair going. So I'd guess there are quite a lot of OWs being strung along... most of whom have the good sense to keep quiet.

SantasPelvicFloor Sun 22-Dec-13 14:00:43

Win? No. It's probably that everyone loses when he infects more than one life

LunchLadyWannabe Sun 22-Dec-13 14:03:25

Cogito

That is very true, divorces get messy. I think when as you say mortgages are involved etc, its alot of hassle to leave the wife.

purrforamincepie Sun 22-Dec-13 14:06:53

Win.

Horrendous thread title.

Whatnext074 Sun 22-Dec-13 14:08:03

What OW has 'won' with my H is a lying, cheating, selfish shadow of a man who has lost his dignity and integrity and a loyal and trusting wife and loving family.

They are both extremely high earners though so financially they will be sound for their future whereas I am left struggling financially.

I agree, a cheating man is no prize.

Idespair Sun 22-Dec-13 14:09:13

Win - bit of a booby prize! But yes some ow do end up with the man, particularly when the wife chucks the man out and he has nowhere to go.

ScrambledSmegs Sun 22-Dec-13 14:10:13

Win?

<dies laughing>

Well, some MM do leave for the OW, it's true. I don't think anyone's a winner in that situation though.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 14:10:16

Yes should of thought about that "WIN" prob wasn't the best word to use, convo started as married friend has been having affair with a married man for 2 years, he is also indian so even less chance of him leaving.

In chat was very in depth and long and main view did seem to be that the married man never leaves wife but I think your right it's 50/50 and just depends on the person

Whatnext074 Sun 22-Dec-13 14:10:54

Just to add, I think your thread title is a little insensitive, makes it sound like infidelity is a game to be won.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 14:11:39

Indespair

Think your right, when the wife boots the loser out and he has nowhere else to go!!

Whatnext074 Sun 22-Dec-13 14:11:41

X post

GobbySadcase Sun 22-Dec-13 14:12:14

Well if they do they create a vacancy.

jerryfudd Sun 22-Dec-13 14:13:22

Fil sodded off with his ow. I don't think she trusts him though (obvious reasons) and both have now taken early retirement and are glued to each other's hips

varigatedivy Sun 22-Dec-13 14:14:01

Is this a genuine ask OP- or are you involved with a OM and asking for your own interests?

My dad had an affair and left my mum for my now step mum. They've been together for about 15 years and are still happy.

We all sort of rub along quite well, I'm still close to my dad and mum (although separately).

I think sometimes it does completely work out for the couple having the affair.

jellybeans Sun 22-Dec-13 14:14:30

I think a very low number actually leave. I know one person who was an OW and it lasted 10 years but was unhappy for much of it. She said it was like a movie romance at the beginning ahile they were sneaking around. I know one other person who is still with the OW after about 5 yrs. The think is though people always think of what they did when they think of them, it is always hanging over their heads like a dirty shame. the kids will grow up knowing/finding it out etc. is it really worth it? I read that 90% of MM don't go off with OW and feel that is probably about right. The affair is only great because it is escapsim. Throw in bills, kids, exes etc and you have as many, if not more, stresses as the first marriage.

NoComet Sun 22-Dec-13 14:14:36

Yes, after DW threw the lying cheating bastard out.

Faverolles Sun 22-Dec-13 14:16:27

Fil's OW stuck around for over 30 years, and probably feels she's own, as mil died.
But what a prize - she now officially has an elderly, mysoginistic, controlling, abusive twat as a partner.
Lucky thing hmm. From what I know of her though, they are well matched.

Leavenheath Sun 22-Dec-13 14:17:20

There's no one size fits all.

Some people have affairs and would never do so again and that applies equally to people who've left for the OW/OM or who chose to stay in their marriages. The ones who regret their behaviour and wish they'd handled things differently might still be good people who are entitled to be prized and cherished by their current partners and in a sense, the people who've learnt from their mistakes are probably less likely to be unfaithful again than someone whose fidelity has never even been tested.

The thing that always strikes me about this issue is that the person who's selfish enough to have an affair, generally chooses the option that suits him or her personally. So if they stay with their wives or husbands, they really aren't signing themselves up to live in a loveless marriage and they really aren't staying 'for the children'. They stay because ultimately, they prefer the status quo to what's being offered by someone else and at the point when that decision has to be made, are behaving far too selfishly to put anyone else first other than themselves.

If what's being offered is considered to be better for them personally, they will leave. The ones who do and learn from the experience are probably safe bets. The ones who blame everyone else for their own decisions are not.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 14:21:34

Verygatedivy

This is a genuine ask! No my myself is not or ever has been involved with a married man!

Was just looking for views really as I said me and few friends had a long chat about this this morning and I used to think the same, the married man never leaves, if wife finds out it then they tend to do what they can to keep wife/family...... But this was all until I started reading these post and there are slot of women who have been left for OW ( though a lot of that seems to be because they kicked the cheating arses out)

But no friend is having affair and that's why question is playing on mind and we were trying to convince her he will never ever leave and that if she is unhappy with her marriage then to deal with that regardless of what the married man is going to do

ajandjjmum Sun 22-Dec-13 14:22:29

They might 'win' the MM, but the 'MM' inevitably loses all that is really important in his life - often the love and respect of his children and wider family.

SirChenjin Sun 22-Dec-13 14:23:15

Win?

People aren't possessions you know hmm. There are affairs and there are love affairs. I would imagine that the former doesn't involve the person leaving the marriage and latter often results in the breakup of a marriage which probably isn't very happy, with the man/woman involved then going on to form a new and often happy relationship. All this talk of 'it creates a vacancy' is just silly - every relationship is different.

BlueStonesBells Sun 22-Dec-13 14:24:26

I'd say in about half the cases I've seen, yes, the OW ends up married to the man. Obviously there are probably a lot more secret affairs going on, though.

Rosencrantz Sun 22-Dec-13 14:25:17

In my experience of being the OW... And I was for 3 years, the husband gets nothing.

Wife left, as did I.

Wife was an incredibly clever lady. I was the stupid one. Thank god I learnt something from her.

Husband now gets his affection from women who exchange cash for it.

HairyGrotter Sun 22-Dec-13 14:27:14

My father married the OW, still are married but she certainly didn't win, he's a functioning alcoholic, and our family barely speak or see him. He lost 4 kids, and 7 grand kids with his actions, lucky man hmm

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 14:34:10

Again WIN prob was totally the wrong word!

Seems to be a mixture of views here, few people generally seem to be able to have a long, healthly, happy relationship as a result of a affair. But for me I don't think I would ever be able to trust (once a cheat always a cheat)

And yes there is also the whole losing family/respect aspect to, which is one I was desperately trying to put across to friend, they are from different cultures, he has told her he would be disowned and lose everything family, business for being with a western women ...... Yet she has thins idea in her head that not stright away but in a few years he will leave and marry her and live happily ever after

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 22-Dec-13 14:34:25

DM's first marriage broke up because the H met an "old flame". She threw him out. 35 yrs later him and the OW are still together. I wouldn't say they've had the best life together, but that's due to their personalities, rather then how they met.

SkoggyCat Sun 22-Dec-13 14:39:30

Hmm. I think some do. I think many men are in it for the thrill. Some are in it for 'love' but they don't love the OW enough to sacrifice the comforts of their marriage. My father left for mt stepmother. They are very happy and very much in love. They have been married for 25yrs, three other children. My mother has come to an uneasy tolerance of him. I don't like what he did to us and hate what he did to my mother (I've forgiven my SM as she didn't know it was an affair, but I don't think I can forgive him) BUT from my rememberence of my DPs' marriage, he's happier. That doesn't excuse what he did (why not get a divorce or at least officially separate?) but I think sometimes they can 'win'.

drasticpark Sun 22-Dec-13 14:40:43

My ex had an 18 month affair and I kicked him out 3.5 years ago. He's still with OW. He lives alone in a rented flat as ds age 12 refuses to even have her name mentioned let alone meet her again. Whether they are happy is another question and I have no interest in the answer. Judging by his continued and significant venomous anger at me I would say probably not. I'm ok though. I feel sorry for them.

varigatedivy Sun 22-Dec-13 14:40:49

I've known quite a few marriages break up for Ow/OM- friends, neighbours, colleagues.
One- friend of a friend- had been the OW/OM for 25 years.

I think the stats are something like 30% of marriages end if affair discovered, 30% recover and 30% go to the OM/OW.

noisytoys Sun 22-Dec-13 14:41:15

DH had an OW. I threw him out. I don't care if she ultimately 'wins' him it's a pretty shit prize

Leavenheath Sun 22-Dec-13 14:45:29

And the other 10% are unknown? grin

Thing is, there are no reliable stats or data on this. All surveys are compromised by the size of the sample and whether the respondents are telling the truth.

All we can share are anecdotes and our own experiences, but even then this is a (relatively) small sample and no-one knows whether someone using an anonymous forum is telling the truth.

Lonecatwithkitten Sun 22-Dec-13 14:49:18

I kicked him out, he ended up with OW. I have heard that she has to keep him on a very short leash as he has 'form' for lying, cheating and sneaking around.
She had already lost her licence through drink driving, ExH will lose his in court tomorrow, may lose his job and has reduced contact with DD due to her being in the car when he was arrested.
I would say they are on the losing team.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 14:55:17

Lonecatwithkitten

God he was caught drink driving with your daughter in the car???? That's bloody awful

They do dound like a pair of losers! What a miserable existence

Lonecatwithkitten Sun 22-Dec-13 14:59:31

Oh yes minty just another chapter in their saga, fortunately as it is on police record rather than just my word against his it acts as irrefutable evidence in the contact case.

Monetbyhimself Sun 22-Dec-13 15:02:53

Yeah OW 'won' my husband. I'm happy to settle for 'losing' the abusive, cheating little shit in the sack scrote wink

FloWhite Sun 22-Dec-13 15:06:28

As far as I know OW number 1 didn't 'win' my ex as I believe she may (still) be competing with OW number 2 who did grin.

As to whether he/they are happy I honestly don't know - he lost the loyalty and love of my DS's who cut him off and our daughter has virtually no contact. Sad, really.

Inthequietcoach Sun 22-Dec-13 15:16:02

Yes, OW is still with my XH1, they have two dc now. I know you already explained win was the wrong word, but socially, yes, they would look like the proper family, whereas I went on to have failed marriage no2, and another dc, so am a single parent of dc with two different dads.

I would say she did not win, more that she was more the kind of woman he wanted, but did not realise, that is, she has never worked and looks after everything for him, even when he was unemployed for quite a long time. Whereas, I worked and expected him to help at home. Just as well, because it meant I could afford to be left for OW, iyswim. But they seem quite happy and better suited than we were, I hope so at least.

WooWooOwl Sun 22-Dec-13 15:22:42

I have a friend who was the OW, she has been happily married for (I think) 14 years now. They appear to have a lovely marriage.

The first wife ended up in a relationship with her ex husbands friend.

hookedonchoc Sun 22-Dec-13 15:42:43

A man I know was a serial adulterer. He married at 23 and had first OW at 25 or so. He would lose interest after a few years and get a new mistress. He was always "madly in love" with them until he got bored. He thought his affairs were secret, but his DW knew but stayed because she took her vows seriously (born in 1930s). His affairs finally stopped when he got cancer in his late 50s, which he got over, but he is now a lonely widower with many regrets. No winners as far as I can see.

Bogeyface Sun 22-Dec-13 16:01:43

Talking just from what I know of my life and friends/family the only times the OW has "won" is when the DW kicks the MM out. Of the three that I know that did get kicked out, every single one would go back to their wives in a heartbeat and are not particularly happy with OW but they have no where else to go.

And actually, I think "Won" isnt a bad choice of words because often that is exactly how the OW sees it. We of course know that the prize wasnt worth the effort but she will see herself as the winner.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 22-Dec-13 16:02:28

The OW or the OM can't ever win the other person BUT the two of them can decide to break existing ties and make a new start together. Like any other relationship, there are no guarantees. Some are happy, some are not.

flipchart Sun 22-Dec-13 16:09:00

Mine left me when I was 20 for another woman who was 3 years older than me and 2 years older than him. It was very bitter and messy.

I literally bumped into them 3 weeks ago in a small market town where he plays drums in a dad rock style band.

They have been together28 years, have now got two grown up children and appear very happy together.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 22-Dec-13 16:24:56

Agree with Cogito and Leavenheath, I think those posters are really very insightful.

I call 'bullshit bingo' whenever I hear that "When a man marries his mistress it creates a vacancy". It doesn't. If you think about it, a man (or woman) who has ended their marriage does not do so lightly. Through selfishness or just a sense of decency and/or self-preservation, you don't just jump into matrimony again and not without giving it some real thought and consideration.

As a woman who was cheated on herself, I find some of the platitudes spouted extremely patronising and ill-considered. Above all, they are inaccurate and no kind of salve whatsoever. I just don't think it's helpful to fill people's head with this sort of stuff; "Don't worry, they'll get 'theirs' in the end", "They'll never be happy", "It's all built on a lie" and other assorted and completely unfounded statements.

What I've learned is that even the most uncharacteristic people have affairs. Many of those people are decent and whilst the affair behaviour is deplorable it doesn't change the essence of a person. It is always the 'fault' of the person who had the affair but given the destructive nature of entering into one and the huge risks and likelihood of getting caught, I doubt that it's something most people would do without seriously considering the implications of that. Some people, having considered, will still take that risk

You don't have to like or forgive a person who has cheated on you, you can even hate them if you want to but, there's one wisdom that strikes a chord with me along the lines of "If you seek revenge, dig TWO graves".

HowAboutNo Sun 22-Dec-13 16:25:43

My friend was the OW for a short time. He left his partner and now is with my friend.

As a result of the way she behaved, we have drifted. Our mutual friends have all felt the pain of being cheated on, and whilst we love our friend, what she happily did to his ex makes us all uncomfortable.

They seem happy and go on great holidays and live a luxurious life but I can't help but think that it was all built on the back of someone else's pain.

Putitonthelist Sun 22-Dec-13 16:29:09

I know a man who left his pregnant wife (of 10 years) and young child for his OW. They have been together for 11 years. I know him because he had a six month affair with me behind the OW's back. And I doubt I've been the only one, what a catch.

ThatIsIt Sun 22-Dec-13 16:34:13

I know two who got the MM.

One was a former friend. She turned into a vary nasty bitter person once she married him. She had nasty names for his ex wife and the guy she went on to meet and marry, having taken her husband she was still in competition with his ex wife. His exwife got pregnant so she and her second husband had a reversal so she could have a baby too. She wasn't satisfied until she had got all four children to leave their Mothers house to live with her, she hated them and bitched them behind their backs, made their Dad have a go at them and she pretended to the children's faces she liked them, it was shocking to whitness, as I say she is a former friend.

Another I know the MM left and cheated on her with her friends, she wanted his first wives life and she got it.

Wigeon Sun 22-Dec-13 16:39:45

My dad married his OW; they've now been together for about 10 years. My BIL is together with his OW and has been for a number of years. So it does happen.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 22-Dec-13 16:43:37

PutItOnTheList... Well neither you nor the cheating OM were a catch at the time, were you? Your post is a little hypocritical.

Mama1980 Sun 22-Dec-13 16:47:47

Win is definitely the wrong word.
But my nan was the other woman 70 years ago, my grandad left his fiancé within a couple of weeks of meeting her, weeks before the wedding was due to take place, and they were Very happily married for 60 years.

Putitonthelist Sun 22-Dec-13 16:49:23

Lying you'll get no argument from me about that, you're right. Was simply posting my experience on the thread.

ThatIsIt Sun 22-Dec-13 16:53:21

I think whoever posted about the OW being a different personality type to the first wife has a point. I was a right softie and traditional wife, the OW is just like his Mum, likes to be in control, maybe they are better suited. Maybe he should have married someone who sits on him and tells him off all the time, maybe that is what he wants. I know he still cheats on her, though he hasn't as many opportunities. Like a normal person I didn't stop him living a life, maybe he wanted to be restricted. Sadly instead of his hatred at her controlling him he takes it out on me, sigh! I can't wait until the children are adults, when he no longer has me as a scapegoat I predict they will have MAJOR troubles! They need to be joined together in hatred of me to survive!

Trills Sun 22-Dec-13 16:58:35

I wouldn't exactly call it "winning", necessarily.

mrsWast Sun 22-Dec-13 17:00:50

i did. we've been together 10 years, married for 5. it wasn't easy for any of us. make of that what you will. if it makes you all feel any better we are separating after xmas for reasons entirely unrelated to the events of ten years ago.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 22-Dec-13 17:00:50

Putitonthelist... Fair enough. I think that people's experiences can lead them into certain behaviour and what they do shouldn't label them forever anyway. Most of the people who've had affairs that I know of, if not the affair, have at least regretted the pain caused.

ThatIsIt Sun 22-Dec-13 17:04:10

I am sure it will make Mrs West the first, her children and those who love them happy that you are now as miserable as you made others. Why you think it would make random people on the internet happy I don't understand.

Putitonthelist Sun 22-Dec-13 17:08:13

Lying I deeply regret what I did and have done much soul searching since the affair ended. And even though I was obviously 50% responsible for the affair I still think it's such a shame that he couldn't even stay faithful to the woman he left his wife and children for - it just seems such a waste.

mrsWast Sun 22-Dec-13 17:10:29

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mrsWast Sun 22-Dec-13 17:11:44

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HowAboutNo Sun 22-Dec-13 17:14:48

I was surprised when I was younger to meet a man who was married, and o

HowAboutNo Sun 22-Dec-13 17:16:11

*openly discussing how he would feel if his wife left him for another man:

"Well, good for her. If that is what she would want, then I don't want her"

Always stuck with me just how indifferent some men are.

CointreauVersial Sun 22-Dec-13 17:18:55

Yes.

DM "won" DSDad. They have been together for 41 years now.

Similarly DH was with someone else when we met (although it was a long term relationship rather than marriage, and no kids), and we have almost clocked up 20 years.

So, not true that it never works out.

TheOwlService Sun 22-Dec-13 17:23:08

I know of two women who both ended up with their affair partner. The first relationship only lasted around 2 years but the second is going strong 15 years later and they are still very happy. I'm not condoning it but sometimes things do work out and its not logical or realistic to say these relationships are bound to fail and that karma will get them!

muddylettuce Sun 22-Dec-13 17:33:58

Sometimes the other man gets the married woman.

ThatIsIt Sun 22-Dec-13 17:39:58

MrsWast, have a nice Christmas, <kiss>

Lazyjaney Sun 22-Dec-13 18:11:26

Of people i know, about 1/3 stayed, 1/3 left for OW, 1/3 left but did not go to OW (or for long, anyway). Of the reverse I know it's about the same. Probably more aldo who stayed that I don't know about as it never became public.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 18:24:23

Thank you for all the replies, there are some intresting views and points made, I will be showing my friend this thread, though hers maybe be slightly different in they she is having affair with a Indian MM!

Bogeyface, I think one of the man reasons I used the word "WIN" is because my friend almost sees it that way, if he leaves his wife and gives her the happy life she has in her head then she will be the winner in all of it!

MirandaWest Sun 22-Dec-13 18:25:47

XH had an affair with the OW at the time. They've been together over 3.5 years now and from what I can tell are v happy together.

Leavenheath Sun 22-Dec-13 18:26:39

Hey Lying - thanks.

The only thing I'd disagree with in your longer post is that people about to have an affair consider the risks before getting involved, because I don't think many do. If any risk is assessed at all, it's whether their partners might find out, but I honestly don't think many people know the real implications until it's too late. The decision-making process is rarely that rational IMO and when lust or infatuation is involved, sound decision-making is often the first casualty.

When people on here say their errant partners were 'horrified' by their former actions, I can believe it. Partly because I myself look back and cringe at things I've done when I've had sex-goggles on or was immersed in some infatuation or other (when single, to be fair) and partly because I saw a family member who was in this state of horror- and it wasn't faked or just because he'd been found out.

Runwayqueen Sun 22-Dec-13 18:29:16

The other woman in my case did 'win' my now xh.

Leavenheath Sun 22-Dec-13 18:30:00

Is your friend a very competitive person then OP? With other women especially?

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing Sun 22-Dec-13 18:32:54

Not much of a prize though, is it?

yes, sometimes they do end up with him.

although I think more often because his wife found out and kicked him out.

I think thats even worsg. Knowing you only got the 'prize' cos the original 'winner' threw it your way.

although there are those who meet someone else and at least do the honourable thing and leave, mostly it remains grubby and hidden until it all blows up into a horrible mess.

Whatnext074 Sun 22-Dec-13 19:31:29

Your friend sounds an absolute delight OP!

cafesociety Sun 22-Dec-13 19:50:15

I know of a MM who left his wife and 2 young children and his OW left her husband and child. They have been together for 30 years. They have no idea of the devastation they left in their wake....to this day the effects are felt.

I agree that selfish people do this so they are probably well suited.

Then they decided to move 100 miles away from their offspring [and grandchild] to retire. Thus making the logistics of seeing 'family' difficult for everyone, so not at all helpful.

A very self absorbed couple. I don't like either of them much, both have ego's that are too big and both are vain.

1983mummy Sun 22-Dec-13 19:50:40

My ex left me initially for the OW, then after a few days decided he wanted me. Then he wasn't sure. Then he kept in contact with her. In all honesty I actually wish she did 'win' him as it would have meant he didn't ruin our marriage for nothing.

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 20:14:29

OP is your friend me? I am in a very similar situation also 2 years but he is Pakistani not Indian. I don't see him as a prize to be won, that would indicate I was playing some sort of game and I'm really not. I do think we would be very happy together though.

KrabbyPatty Sun 22-Dec-13 20:24:45

In our group of friends, we know 2 OW who have ended up with the married men. And they are extremely happy.

Beccawoo Sun 22-Dec-13 20:32:45

My XH left for OW 2 yrs ago, leaving me with a newborn and a 2 yr old. They are still together, despite him trying numerous times. - up till last month when our divorce came through - to get me back. OW of course knows nothing about this, so yes, she 'won' him but I have to pity her really.

Alchemist Sun 22-Dec-13 20:46:55

H left me about 6 weeks ago for his OW. Whether she feels she has won is irrelevant. It's all I can do to hold the DCs and me together.

As he has made this decision, it's now up to him how he conducts his life. He has hurt me and, especially the DC 9 & 7, immeasurably. If they are delighted with each other for causing such grief, well, I think that shows them to be utter cunts.

SanityClause Sun 22-Dec-13 20:51:36

1. I remember a thread where a second wife, who had been the OW, had her husband leave her for a second OW. As they say, when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy.

2. What the flippin' jeff difference does it make if he is Indian?

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 20:59:45

Why do people keep churning out that James goldsmith quote as though it is a truism rather than just some guys opinion?

See lyingwitch's post for a much more realistic viewpoint.

ShineyBlackShoes Sun 22-Dec-13 21:03:51

My ex-H married his long time mistress. They are still happy I believe and have an 8 or 9 year old child.

I am still alone...over 13 years now!

KingRollo Sun 22-Dec-13 21:07:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SirChenjin Sun 22-Dec-13 21:11:10

Why do people keep churning out that James goldsmith quote as though it is a truism rather than just some guys opinion?

Quite agree. The guy was hardly the philosopher of the 20th century, was he?

SanityClause Sun 22-Dec-13 21:14:11

Okay, JaceyBee, I can only say I've seen it happen.

I also know a couple of cases where a man left his wife for the OW, and is still with her. Both are a bit older, so possibly the risk of them repeating this is less likely.

If it were me, I'd be scared it was going to happen to me, though.

daphnesglasses Sun 22-Dec-13 21:25:11

I can think of one case where they are still together many years later, and two where the man went off with a further OW much later into the second marriage - repeating the same sort of pattern as first marriage. The OW who 'wins' hmm a man in this way must know that's always a risk as he has it in his nature to cheat and having an affair is a way he is likely to deal with problems in their relationship.

It's not the greatest start to a relationship. I also know of a number who have left for OW and not ended up with her, so just wrecking a lot of lives

glamourousgranny42 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:31:47

I can see this from different viewpoints. I am I suppose the ow. My partner and I got together 6 months ago after a 3 year friendship. I immediately broke off my relationship and shortly after he left his wife. I didn't win him , its not a competition. Of course its messy and upsetting and difficult. But are you suggesting that people should remain in an unhappy relationship to preserve the happiness of another?
This isnt a whim or a fling. We are planning our future and are committed to each other.
Btw my marriage ended after I discovered my husbands other woman. These things happen and those holier than thou posters with hatred and bitterness, well, im not suprised you are alone.

daphnesglasses Sun 22-Dec-13 21:36:49

angry comments like that really wind me up - why not be bitter if left for OW when they've got young kids, and more importantly, there are plenty of people who are a*holes who are with someone or married - being in a relationship doesn't endorse you as a human being

KrabbyPatty Sun 22-Dec-13 21:38:40

I think it can be a bit daft to think that a man or woman who cheats has it in their nature.

In my experience, our friends that had affairs were, quite simply, not happy with their partners. They had both married young to their long term girlfriends that they'd had for years. They didn't have the maturity to realise that a long term relationship might not automatically be marriage material.

They have both gone on to marry the OW. They are both immensely happy and feel they are with the 'right' person now. I would be amazed to hear that either of them had cheated.

daphnesglasses Sun 22-Dec-13 21:41:49

eh why's it daft confused it is in their nature because they have done it

glamourousgranny42 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:42:57

I agree daphne but I know from experience that bitterness and hatred are not helpful from a personal growth point of view. My ex made a choice. Fair enough my responsibility was to my children and my own health. My life went on and I made the best of it.

daphnesglasses Sun 22-Dec-13 21:42:59

as opposed to say, just leaving the partner and having the new relationship

MusicForTheMasses Sun 22-Dec-13 21:43:12

I was the OW. Fell for the speil of what a bitch his wife was (lots of examples were often given to me) I stupidly believed him.

After 14 years together he did the same to me. I read the emails and he almost immediately it was like going back in time. I was getting exactly the same character assassination as he'd laid at the door of his first wife. I was 11 years younger than him. The new OW was his age, after 6 weeks of living together she saw sense and left.

The best thing is that one of the people that helped me through was wife No 1. We both realised it wasn't us, it was him. I was never proud of what I had done but fell for the whole narcissitic story hook, line and sinker.

To be honest, going off with someonbe else was the best thing he ever did for me (and I suspect his FW). We are both a lot happier than he is I know that.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 21:44:55

Oh glamourous...what a way with words you have. You're not surprised people are alone?? There are people on this thread that have been left pregnant or with newborns but you don't understand their bitterness? It's people like you I don't understand! I'll have what I want out of life and other people can deal with it!

Tbh I have two friends whose parents split up due to affairs. This was while we were at school 20 odd years ago so have had time to see how it panned out. One mate had her mum leave for her stepdad. They had a miserable life- he was very controlling and tbh boring. Her dad however, remarried and got into sailing, travelling and generally have had a happy life. The other couple both remarried too, the sad who cheated didn't settle with the ow though and although remarried she's not a patch on his first wife- in any respect. He lost out!

I know it's been commented on but I must add that the word 'won' couldn't be further than the truth...

CrapBag Sun 22-Dec-13 21:45:50

I don't like all this talk of OW, sometimes its OM, its not always women who are the wronged ones.

Mil was having an affair, no idea how long for, then her poor dh died leaving her free to go off with OM (who was at least single himself). She got to alleviate her guilt by unloading on her kids 3 days after they witnessed their DF die, her new DH got ill and she proved to be selfish and unsupportive and he left her. Her two children are not very close to her at all, unsurprisingly and she is going to be a lonely person. Affairs rarely turn out for the best.

clio51 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:46:48

My husband went off with ow after 9 years together and a 4 year old, she some years down the line left him!! He's now had 2 wives and 2 partners but only 2 kids thank god (for the kids sake)

Whatnext074 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:48:12

I had a very close marriage, my H went with OW because we sadly had some extremely traumatic losses in both our families and with each other, all were losses of dear babies. My H and I were there for each other and then OW saw he was upset and offered him a way out of having to deal with any of our realities. He couldn't cope and was weak and made his choice to walk away.

I am not a 'holier than thou' bitter poster full of hatred and I take offence to that on behalf of myself and all the DWs who have felt the pain of betrayal.

I don't believe that all MM who have had affairs will eventually do it to OW, I don't think my H will but whatever the outcome, it causes a world of unimaginable hurt to more than just the DW! I would never seek to hurt another person in that way.

MadhbhORave Sun 22-Dec-13 21:51:53

A schoolfriend of mine did.
She has it all rationalised in her head tho, so any guilt must be buried. "They married too young." "She leeched off him" (was sahm).

glamourousgranny42 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:52:39

Selfish, controlling, abusive people are like that whether they have affairs or not. Of course I have sympathy for women left alone with young children (ive been there) but surely you wouldnt advocate staying in an unhappy relationship for the sake of the children?
Is it the method of leaving the relationship that is the root of the problem?

spanky2 Sun 22-Dec-13 21:53:06

How is a man who cheats on his wife a prize to win?

SocialClimber Sun 22-Dec-13 21:53:25

Of course

Sometimes the wronged wife isn't the right person, whether they think they have a perfect marriage or not. So they find the right person, and it works out.

Sometimes it's a one off, people who have affairs are not always wankers and not always serial adulterers. I dislike the "creating a vacancy" saying as I don't believe that's true. Obviously some people are serial cheaters but sometimes someone just ends up with the person they're supposed to be with.

Imagine being unhappily married to someone, wanting someone else, knowing they are who they should be with but not wanting to break up a family and create holy hell. Of course an affair is never right, and people should break up if they're not happy, but life really isn't as simple and as black and white as that.

I think people feel better imagining that couples who start a life together after an affair end up miserable. But it's just not true.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 21:58:18

No my friend is not a competitive person! She actually is a great girl a very very dear friend of mine, she has had a tough few years for various reasons and I think this affair started at this time for that very reason, had she not been going through this I can 100% day she would not have ever given this man a second glance!

Jaceybee no def not you I'm talking about, unless you were at mine this morning lol, no my friend does not use MN though she knows I'm posting about this subject and will be reading the responses!

clio51 Sun 22-Dec-13 22:06:13

My husband left me after 9years and our 4yr old for ow, about 6 years down the line she left him. He as now at the age of 57 had 2 wives and 2 partners. But only 2 kids(which I suppose is 2 to many for him.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 22:09:23

Yes glamourous- it's the lying, cheating...having their cake and eating it, utter disrespectful behaviour that affairs entail. If the marriage is ending, talk about it and be a big person. Don't disrespect your vows and other person.

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 22:10:32

Ok well in that case - Hi OP's friend, you are welcome to pm me if you want to chat to someone in the same boat! smile

MacaYoniandCheese Sun 22-Dec-13 22:15:18

DH's dad left his mom for the OW after she got pregnant (leaving two year old DH and his 12 year old twin brothers). They have now been married for 37 years. They make me sick and I refuse to visit them, even though it's supposedly 'water under the bridge'.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 22:17:16

Jaceybee- I'm sorry but I don't understand how you can remain in a relationship which is based entirely on lies and deceit for so long. Do you not feel anxious all the time?! How can you deal knowing he has a home, a marriage a life totally separate from you and one he hasn't left yet for you?? Probably never will? I'm not having a go...just genuinely don't get it?! Why, why, why would you want to be a bit on the side? How can you find a lying man attractive?!

Leavenheath Sun 22-Dec-13 22:25:53

It doesn't surprise me OP that you think she wouldn't have given the OM a second glance if she'd been single and hadn't been going through a traumatic time. In my observation, quite a few affairs are like this; with people who just happen to be 'there' rather than because of their unique or special qualities. Some affairs are just escape mechanisms and nothing more serious or important than that.

But if you're right, he'd be mad to leave his wife for someone who wouldn't have got together with him if they'd both been single. And your mate would be mad to throw her lot in with a bloke who was actually just a crutch and not the real deal.

I didn't pay too much attention to what you said she was saying about her marital unhappiness, probably because that often gets revised and rewritten to justify an affair. But as her mate, was she talking of unhappiness before she met this bloke? Of course, that's not to say she wasn't keeping schtum about any problems she was having, but if you know her and her husband well, were you aware of any huge problems before OM came on the scene?

Lisavarna Sun 22-Dec-13 22:29:46

My father left us (six kids) and my mother for the OW. It happens.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 22:31:07

He left your mum with 6 kids?! What is wrong with people?!
Hope you're mum is happy now...

I can think of cases where affairs have worked out, and I can think of cases where they haven't. I can also think of cases where relationships not starting with an affair have worked out, and those where they haven't. It all depends really doesn't it...

Not all first marriages are meant to last, and not all people who want to leave a marriage have the guts to do it the kind way. An affair is an easy exit.

shushpenfold Sun 22-Dec-13 22:32:48

Yes - know lots who did. Still doesn't make either of them any less of a bottom feeder though.

happyyonisleepyyoni Sun 22-Dec-13 22:34:51

I know a very pleasant and normal MC couple with 3 kids together, turns out they got together as an affair. It does happen. Normal life does not always follow the Mumsnet script.

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 22:38:14

That's ok mamadiggingdeep, I don't really understand it myself sometimes! I am a level-headed emotionally intelligent, very self-aware person but this guy just blew me away I guess. We are just so compatible in every way, except for him being a different religion/culture and married! He is everything I ever wanted in a partner, though of course he is not my partner. We do know each other very well and are incredibly close. I know he has deep flaws. He cheats and lies over and over. Also, he can be weak and cowardly. He's not happy with his wife but isn't willing to go through a divorce. A lot of that is about him not wanting to upset his mother who would be devastated and probably disown him. His whole community would turn against him and he isn't strong enough (or doesn't want to enough) to go through it all to be with me.

His wife did find out about 18 months ago but decided to stay with him. Ostensibly she believes it's over but I think on some level she must 'know' I'm still around. She sounds miserable and I am sorry for her. I know that sounds fucked up but I am. I'm sorry for all of us really.

Mintymoomoo Sun 22-Dec-13 22:39:14

Leavenheath, I was aware of her issues and her unhappiness for years, awful anxiety and low self esteem and I did wonder if she was as happy with her DP as she said! When she confide in my about the affair, only weeks after it begun she did admit that her marriage had problems and wasn't great! All I can say is this MM has given her back a lot of her confidence and spark that I haven't seen for years, she is almost the 21 year old single girl I remember!

The MM has never lead her on or said he will leave his wife, as he says in his culture he will lose everything, he claims he loves her, their sole mates etc! She just has a fairytale going on on her head where she thinks that one day he will leave and they will live happily ever after and that his family will just expect he has left his wife for a western girl etc.

redundantandbitter Sun 22-Dec-13 22:40:29

I was OW for almost 2 yrs and it was so shitty, lonely and miserable that I look back and think WTF? Why why why didn't I see how much crap I was in, and the circle of pain growing around both our LTR and our dc's. I can only say that I saw no way out other than to push on and quietly hope that he would leave marital home. I SHOULD have said "sort yourself out and contact me when you're single". Hindsight is a marvellous thing.

Eventually he fessed up to DW and after months of pretending to make it all work out, she kicked him out.

So we had another almost 2 yrs together . We met each others children (after a long time) and parents etc. Then , bugger me, he meets yoga lady and within days he has decided she's too "warm and nice" to resist. He's known her before in a previous life, apparently. That was 3 painful months ago.

So, did I win? I didn't feel like I won. I was totally in it for life. But I knew my DDs father was never ever going to be right for me . We both agreed it was long dead in the water. I very very very happy with my MM and him with me. Great friends, good company, easy, relaxed, great passionate sex, lots of chatting, very tactile . We completely cherished and adored each other. Guess I never really knew what went on in his head. Now i'm heartbroken and its my punishment I guess.

I know that I would NEVER entertain anything with a married man again. I look back at the person I was and think "what was I thinking" . Please don't flame me

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 22:41:32

What a mess jaceybee! You do know that she probably couldn't leave him if she wanted to because of their culture?! The poor woman is stuck and probably does know it's ongoing.

You deserve a lot better. I hope you're not allowing the chance to have children to pass you by whilst you waste your time with him.

That poor wife sad

TheOwlService Sun 22-Dec-13 22:54:04

Redundant, life is never as black and white as some would paint it is it.

Hope you feel better soon.

Hohohowhatfuckeryitis Sun 22-Dec-13 22:59:58

Um my dm did. But dad was really separated (by the length of the country) Mum was cited as co respondent (found out after her death) Dm and dd were really the loves of each other's lives. First wife was a right cow (even her daughter said so)

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 23:01:50

I think she could leave him, it would be difficult but I think if people around them know what he has done she would be supported. She probably won't though.

Yeah it is a mess. But it has been 2 years and I have come to a place of acceptance, it is what it is. He doesn't make empty promises. It has been a huge emotional rollercoaster, with his wife finding out, us breaking it off and getting back together a few times, loads of pain and drama. The worst time was when he told me he was gonna leave her. It came out of the blue and he seemed really convinced. For about a week I was so happy! But he wanted to talk to his mum first, almost ask her if he was 'allowed'. I think he'd convinced himself that she might just tell him to follow his heart and be happy. But of course she didn't, she went nuts and said he had to stay with his wife and family. So that was that.

Since we got back 'together' this time, we no longer talk about whether we can be together properly as we both know it isn't going to happen. I am a very happy single parent, I'm certainly not settling for this because I need a man! I also see other people casually, which he knows about. He doesn't like it but knows he doesn't have the right not to like it iyswim. I'm not putting my life on hold for him. But I can't ever imagine finding anyone else I could love even half as much as I do him.

Heartfulloflove Sun 22-Dec-13 23:05:03

My DH had an affair ... He thought he wanted her (he also thought that I didn't want him - very much not the case we were going through a very bad patch ).

He moved out, applied to transfer his job to where she is ...

When he got the job he realised big time that he had made a moohoosive mistake.

He left her ... We lived apart for a few months because we had a lot to work through ...and he has just moved back in today.

So no, these family wreckers fortunately don't always succeed!

FeelingOrange Sun 22-Dec-13 23:10:54

That's how my aunt and uncle got together (sad but true). They were seeing each other before he got married and he wanted to marry but aunt but she wasn't ready for marriage so they broke up. He then had a relationship with his ex wife and got her pregnant, so they got married and ended up having 2 DDs. Then he and my aunt started their affair. I guess his ex found and out left him. Then after a few years, he married my aunt and they have been together for about 20 years, one DD, seem to be happily married. There are so many different circumstances, anything can happen.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 23:22:49

Jaceybee- he sounds awful. Sorry but he does. He's having his cake and eating it.

The bit about you being so happy the week you thought he was leaving her made my heart sink. Think how she's have felt if he'd left her. Your happiness would've been at her expense.

I know life isn't black and white but I just would t want to be involved in causing someone else such absolute misery.

Bowlersarm Sun 22-Dec-13 23:23:46

Yes.

They do.

Upcycled Sun 22-Dec-13 23:24:18

In my case yes.
My exH did end up with OW
And they are now living happily ever after as far as I am concerned.

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 23:26:49

He's really not awful. His behaviour is shitty, as is mine but we are not awful people. Yes he is having his cake and eating it though I guess. Although I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, I'm the one who has it easier in many ways.

Bogeyface Sun 22-Dec-13 23:32:47

Lets removes some excuses, what do we get?

He is everything I ever wanted in a partner........He cheats and lies over and over. Also, he can be weak and cowardly. He's not happy with his wife but isn't willing to go through a divorce. A lot of that is about him not wanting to upset his mother who would be devastated and probably disown him. His whole community would turn against him and he isn't strong enough (or doesn't want to enough) to go through it all to be with me.

Personally, I think that you and his wife deserve better than that, and I am sorry that you dont see it.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 23:37:10

Jaceybee- I didn't say you were awful! I said he's awful. He's kept you dangling. He's betraying his wife and humiliating her because his mum knows, she knows, the whole family probably know.

His behaviour is shitty and he's carrying on. That makes him a shitty person.

I actually think you and his wife are victims. The only difference being you have a choice. I really don't think she would have much of one. I don't think she could leave with her head held high. If he can't divorce her, do you think she could divorce him for adultery?? Really? I think it's naive if you think she could.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 22-Dec-13 23:37:20

Yes - my friend's dh did. But he was an abusive misogynist who was an incredibly attractive 'charmer' at the beginning of their relationship.

More fool the OW in my opinion... she had NO idea what she's let herself in for. Yet.

It's like watching Trinny/Saatchi.

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 23:41:01

She certainly does bogeyface. She is the only one of the 3 of us who is blameless. To be fair, he doesn't talk about her badly to try and justify his cheating or anything. For me, I understand what I'm involved in and it's my own stupid fault if I make the choices I do, you know?

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 23:43:53

I think she could divorce him. This is the uk, we don't have sharia law. Her sisters are both divorced, although I think their marriages were really terrible. But she probably won't and that's her choice.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 23:44:24

Not really been that way the whole time though jaceybee- he was promising to leave for you. You thought you had a future. He was probably lying through his teeth and never had any intention of doing so. Now, yes, you know what you're involved in.

beaglesaresweet Sun 22-Dec-13 23:45:31

obviously worked for Camilla and Charles.
Of course it does happen - usuall only in those cases when the marriage was in trouble for along time and husnand and wife had no intimate relationship for few yrs. Then he may leave once he finds someone compatible. But if it was impulsive affair in otherwise happy marriage, or at least normal marriage with ups and downs - rarely works for H and OW as then it IS escapism from real life/relationships.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 22-Dec-13 23:47:12

Sorry- you're naive. Actually in parts if the uk the Muslim communities do run sharia courts and deal with their own cases!! Within the Somalian community it has been a problem because it has been known that rape has even been dealt with this way.

It differs obviously from community and from families but you don't know what her family would make of it.

Bogeyface Sun 22-Dec-13 23:57:36

Jaycee

How do you see your future? Does he figure in it? How long will you wait for him?

JaceyBee Sun 22-Dec-13 23:58:31

He never actually said that he would leave 'for me'. He said he was going to leave and try and live with his mum for a bit. I would see him leaving his wife because they're unhappy and him getting together with me as two separate things almost. I would never have encouraged him to come straight to my door! But it's all irrelevant now anyway coz he isn't going anywhere.

I am not an expert on sharia law or Islam in the uk but I wouldn't say I was naive.

Corygal Mon 23-Dec-13 00:01:59

Yes the unfortunate OW does often end up with the MM. One of my oldest friends took her MM on - after 20 years, she is the breadwinner with vast bills to pay for the first wife, who still doesn't work, and has to support her 2 DCs, and 3 SDCs to boot as neither parent does. MM starts 'boutique businesses', enough said.

I do feel that sometimes society's idea that the first marriage is sacred, while understandable, is not always that helpful to those who marry again.

mammadiggingdeep Mon 23-Dec-13 00:05:05

I'm not an expert either but work within an Asian (Muslim faith) community. There are a couple of women I know vert well (wirk colleagues) stuck in very unhappy marriages because they would not be able to leave for 'shame'. The unhappy marriages are unhappy because they're with abusive twats.

Anyway- digressing slightly...I hope you meet somebody who wants to be with you full time one day. It's be a shame if you wasted too much time over somebody else's husband. You sound so self aware and emotionally intelligent. Just a hunch but I think you and his wife are prob too good for the lying cheat!

PosyNarker Mon 23-Dec-13 01:07:51

Not OW, but I met my DP when I was with my ex. We were living together, but very young. This doesn't excuse my behaviour at all, but basically after first snog (we'd chatted online a few times, but on public channels, nothing dodgy and met a few times with friends) I 'fessed up.

I felt horrendous, knew I was giving up 'a sure thing' for something unknown, but equally knew deep down I wasn't happy.

We split, DP and I are still together 11 years on and exDP is happily married. Oddly we're all still friends, perhaps because we were so young and no DC involved. I wouldn't recommend it and still feel guilty even though I confessed long before anything got sexual.

I'd say for me - I'm not a 'leopard never changes etc. cheater' in that, I would never want to go through or put a partner through that again. I wasn't fulfilled, but it took meeting DP to make me realise that and once that happened I was willing to take the risk. This is obviously more complicated if you have heavily entwined finances and DC, which we didn't. I was also fairly young and have been with ex since before age 18, so I'm not sure I knew what a relationship should be.

These aren't excuses, I still acted like an ass, but I think if I felt the way I did then now, I would recognise it and act on it and act a lot earlier. Fortunately I still adore DP even though he is the single untidiest man I've ever met

Point being, for me, there was never any chance of casual sex backed up by promises. But that's me. Sadly I know plenty of others (friends and colleagues included) for whom that is de rigeur. I'd say the chances of happily ever after are slim - we were in our early 20s, with no 'real' commitments beyond our word. Kids, age, mortgages, marriage changes the picture somewhat, even if the guy really loves her.

MistressDeeCee Mon 23-Dec-13 06:58:12

There must be situations where the OW eventually gets the man. Are you asking because you are an OW, btw? Because there's no definitive answer anyway.

I have a friend I avoid as much as I can now. She is the OW. She's been with the guy for around 12 years now. Whilst I disapprove, I wont moralise about it to her. I avoid her because she's become a bitter, moany cow, really unpleasant to be around. This man had a LTR when he met my friend, subsequently married his partner (he HAD to, you see, theyd been together for so long he couldnt let her down so would do 5 years, then leave DW for my friendhmm ). Of course, he didnt leave DW and after years of ranting on about not seeing him at christmas & other holidays, her birthday, not having him around often enough for her liking, she has descended into a bitter mess that she expects all of us (friends) to listen to constantly. She is also sarcastic & jumps on any comment you make anyway...even if its not about her affair. She's changed for the worse.

So as said..theres no definitive answer..and no 'gain' in hooking a cheat anyway, whoever thinks thats a prize then they dont want much for themselves, do they

pausingforbreath Mon 23-Dec-13 08:49:58

I'm another person who thinks 'win' is a really bad description - I think when there's an affair there are no winners, just shock and pain. Saying that yes, sometimes OW 'wins' sometimes not.

My dearest friend had a habit of only dating 'unavailable' men ( I always struggled with it as was married myself ). One was undergoing fertility/ IVF treatment with his wife. My friend got pregnant. She finished the 'relationship' immediately . The MM was desperate to leave his wife for her- she said no way.
She has now been together with her current partner for nearly 15 yrs and they are very happy. He left his wife to be with her, they both have children and all of them live blended with her and him . All very happy.

For myself, she was a huge help when my dh had his affair. She could give me the perspective of an OW. I think she was hugely shocked, witnessing the carnage of how a betrayed wife felt though.

In my case the OW did intend to win. The affair had been going on for a while. I was totally ignorant of it. Our marriage was awful as I was 'coping- not really' with a huge trauma that was unrelated and totally wrapped up in that.
On Revelation day , they both took the day off work to make plans; OW had booked the week off for my dh to move in. She was hugely attractive, over a decade younger than me and a trust fund baby . If you viewed it as a 'competition ' she was confident enough that when she told my dh she would not be his mistress and he had to tell me and leave me . That's what would happen.

He did tell me that night, I told him if he wanted to go - then go. The door was open, I wasn't prepared to 'fight' for him in a competition I had been unaware that been going on. I also told him that when I married him he had standards and morals better than someone who would cheat on their partner, if his standards had slipped to those levels that found it acceptable and his OW found that attractive - they deserved each other. And he was no longer the man I thought he was.

I also told him that whatever she had, however she looked and behaved I was just happy to know I had better morals than her.

For us, that was nearly 2 years ago. We are still together. Who won? Nobody.
OW lost a job she loved,a man she loved and a whole future ahead that looked rosy.
Me, I have grown , I'm more confident and happier than for years but will always know Dh had an affair, that innocence has flown.
Him, lives with the guilt of the pain he caused everyday. The ' work ' he has put in is huge - but he can never turn the clock back and change what he did....

No winners, just survivors.

HowAboutNo Tue 24-Dec-13 14:21:34

What a post pausingforbreath. Very inspiring x

FloWhite Tue 24-Dec-13 14:38:15

Very moving too. Thank you.

nkf Tue 24-Dec-13 14:43:24

My ex is now married to the other woman. And apparently happy as Larry. Did she win? Did he? Did I? It's not a game is it? I'm certainly happier than I was with him and the kids seem fine with the situation, so I guess the worst didn't happen and we all seem to have come through relatively unscathed.

I know a woman who always seemed to go out with married men. Most stayed with their wives. The last one she went out with she married. Did she win? Dunno really. Just finally got married, I think.

stooshe Thu 26-Dec-13 14:00:21

All the men and women that I know that have gone off (usually by being kicked out, or left) to the "other" partner are serial cheats. I know that a lot of people on here a bit concerned with the OP's term "winning", but a cousin of mine, always caught up with some poor woman's other half DOES see it as a competition. She carries on about her "superior" looks and this part of her personality carries over to real life (she'll dig out a woman who is not the partner of the man she is presently having "relations" with).
I know of (but not in my life) about people who cheat and find compatibility with the OW/OM. I wish that this phenomena was more prevalent in my social/familial circle. It would at least seem that amongst the debris of shattered lives, something rose from the ashes. This is why I have the opinion that some cheats are looking for love/compatibility and some cheats are looking for salve and convenience and will spin any old line and any disrespect from the "other" towards the "official" partner and the children. It's these loose lipped (usually) other women who I can't fathom. Who would want a man who allows a stray female to slag off his kids? Why would the "other" female not think that Mr. Cheater wouldn't hold this violation (even if he encouraged it) in his arsenal of future things to throw in her face?
It's probably best to remember that most people only show the good side of their relationships (no matter how it started) to people and that being in a relationship does not really indicate much about the souls of the two people involved

stooshe Thu 26-Dec-13 14:08:20

Redundantandbitter. Chin up, love. I think that you were with one of those 'easy to get along with, can ease into any situation" type fellas, who have some "darkness' going on. The 'getting with somebody who he knew in a previous life" is the red flag. Don't beat yourself up, be "grateful". He's a player, not a stayer and a right long term charmer, too.

mmmmtoffee Thu 26-Dec-13 16:05:17

I found out that exP was cheating when we were together.

she doesnt know him and as I had to run from him. I believe I am the winner. Unfortunately she will most likely find out the truth about how controlling and dangerous he is, hes currently playing the "poor me, ex gf is keeping my kids away and wont let me see them" card. but the truth is he was abysive to them and thought nothing of throwing a 3week old baby in her cot, and bruising a 5year old hand and arm by,smacking her. I just hope the ow find out the truth before the child getting hit is her child.

Wolfiefan Thu 26-Dec-13 16:08:32

"Win?"
If he's sleeping around he's not much of a prize is he?!
hmm

FolkGirl Thu 26-Dec-13 19:40:10

It depends.

Sometimes people marry the wrong person, sometimes they grow apart, sometimes so much shit has happened within the marriage that was neither of their faults that there is just too much water under the bridge.

My dad had an affair. It was a true love affair - he was much better suited to the OW than he ever was to my mother. When he lived at home with us he was an aggressive bully of whom I was terrified. He married the OW, had two more children and they were very happy (despite illness) for longer than my parents were together. My brother and I never had an issue with our parents splitting up, but we didn't respect him for the affair or the way he behaved around that time.

My husband had an affair. We were no longer compatible. We hadn't been happy for a very long time. He had also become bullying and aggressive. He had an affair, I found out and kicked him out. He is still seeing the OW but he has lost the respect of his friends and family. He says he feels the need to try and make it work with her in order to "salvage" something of the mess. No one expected him to stay in a marriage he wasn't happy in (tbf one of us should probably have ended it years ago) but it was the having an affair that lost him the respect.

An affair isn't the right way to go about it, but sometimes you marry the person you think was 'the one' and then years down the line meet someone and everything just falls into place.

We are only here once and life is too short. If you meet the person you were 'meant' to be with after you marry, then the least you can do is behave as decently as possible. But I wouldn't ever want to deny someone true love. I certainly wouldn't want someone to stay with me out of obligation if they desperately loved someone else.

blondiegonemad Thu 26-Dec-13 20:19:19

I know I'll probably get slaughtered for this, but I did. And I wouldn't shy away from the term "win" either. I did put up a fight for my DP but it was what I call a silent fight - I never encouraged him to leave home, I never asked him to, I never demanded anything, I never said a word about his ex, I never expected to be put first. In fact it was more a fight with my own dreams and wishes which had to be tamed so as not to interfere with his legitimate life. And I waited and hoped that one day he'll be all mine.
It is very easy to blame the OW but sometimes things just happen, marriages are unhappy, partners are unhappy, women are young and carefree and looking for a bit of fun, feelings escalate, people get attached, then there's the passion and the adrenaline of an affair and then one day you wake up and you realise you love him.

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Dec-13 21:58:23

Same here blondie - I was so
Fucking supportive and constant I laugh at myself now.

Good luck with your man. Word of warming - my Exp upped and left me (after 4 yrs) faster than you can 'spiritual yoga lady'.

blondiegonemad Thu 26-Dec-13 22:35:08

Thank you redundant. Well it did come to bite me in the ass in numerous ways although I trust him 100% in regards to women. But I believe that when you start as an OW, even after the relationship with his then partner/wife ends and he is yours, it takes a lot of time to assert yourself as his genuine other half, to overcome not so much other people's looks and hints as your own confidence issues and your guilt.
I know it did for me and even now I sometimes feel he doesn't stand up enough for me (for instance when his ex wife is mentioned by his relatives at the Xmas lunch in my presence which I find rude) or that he takes me for granted purely because I allowed him to slip in bed with me with his wedding ring on (literally or not) so he sort of thinks if I put up with that, what could possibly make me leave him. Or it might just be my paranoia.
I think being as you say supportive might help to diminish the guilt and my point was not all OWs are gold diggers or easy women or God knows what.

redundantandbitter Thu 26-Dec-13 22:44:01

I think you know, by what you posted, that you were too easy (not trying to be mean, I was too - been there done that). So, yes they expect you to put up and shut up and take the back seat. I used to joke that I was never his No 1. After dd1,dd2,EXW,dog then me. Fifth.

Isn't it better to be your own No1 than someone's else's 3rd, 4th ,5th?

tessa6 Thu 26-Dec-13 22:56:01

how are things now, blondie? Genuine question.

blondiegonemad Thu 26-Dec-13 22:57:17

Oh yes I do know. We have a dog and he is my little baby so I don't mind that smile but no DC. However he has a DS and DD with his ex wife whom I see once a month and get on really well with. Surprisingly I don't feel I'm being placed behind his kids and definitely not behind his ex; in fact I'm confident I am his No1 and whilst he might expect me to put up with their demands I'm pretty sure he doesn't expect me to shut up as well. Only I met him when I was really young (21) and let's just say I have spent my 20s having unnecessary worries, providing for children I did not create and growing up too early and too abrupt for my liking. So as you can see there is a bit of frustration there and I think most ex OWs will share that.

5HundredUsernamesLater Thu 26-Dec-13 23:01:43

Blondie
I'm sorry but I find your ideas on what is socially acceptable hilarious.
It's ok to sleep with another woman's husband but rude for someone to mention her name in front of you???

tessa6 Thu 26-Dec-13 23:02:09

wow, you sound really together and like you've gone through a lot. That is young to go through that, but sounds like you are happy which is good.

Flopsygrowsup Thu 26-Dec-13 23:03:57

Yes - neither DH or I are proud of the fact he was mm when we met but we have been together for 15 years and v happy with DC.

blondiegonemad Thu 26-Dec-13 23:20:03

Thanks tessa6 - things are good now, he is my soul mate and I wouldn't change him for the world although sometimes I would like to punch him but don't we all?
We have been through hell and back, from his ex wife not letting him see his DC to my conservative parents throwing really heavy words at me (we're all a big happy family now), from a bedsit to a nice house and from taking a pay day loan in the run up to one Christmas so we can satisfy the financial demands of his ex wife to now having our own business and starting another one in March next year. I am proud of what we achieved together and before we sort of went public I decided not to see him for a whole year because I wanted to make sure that it was what he really wanted, even though he was already separated from his wife. We literally said goodbye on Sept 28th and then I moved in with him on Sept 28th the following year after only seeing each other once in August for a couple of hours. He sent me these long emails every single day and finally I relented and we ended up an item but he has left absolutely everything with his ex so we literally had to start from zero; well more likely from minus. It all sounds very romantic but now it's training bottoms, pyjama tops and spaghetti bowl on the sofa in front of the telly. I think that's my biggest worry - becoming too boring, too comfortable, too like his marriage. But then I do think that what we have is once in a lifetime so that is why I am saying that although you might be an OW, that doesn't make you this horrible little worm that we all have to spit on. As melodramatic as this sounds, sometimes it is genuinely love.

RedchairBluechair Thu 26-Dec-13 23:22:59

Male perspective here.
My partner had an affair with an old flame. He lied his head off to both her and to his wife, and until recently still has -saying he wanted to be with my ex but also with his wife. He fell out with both.
The wife lost patience, and has a divorce under way.
The wife is quietly getting her head together and getting on with life by herself. She and I have become friends, and are mutually supportive.
We are all 4 older than what is probably the MN average.
3 of us are all on the same dating website. My ex complains that all that is available to her are men who are too old for her and who want much younger women anyway. The other man is dating older women who seem grateful for whatever comes their way and sleep with him despite the fact that he is a turd. I am dating women in my age group and find that there are lots of lovely women out there who just like to be treated with respect.
There has to be an obvious moral in it all. It is just so sad that the two of them pretty much ruined our 4 lives for many months.

blondiegonemad Thu 26-Dec-13 23:24:53

5HundredUsernamesLater

I never said it is OK to sleep with another woman's husband, quite the opposite.
But I do not think it is acceptable for his relatives to come around MY house for Christmas dinner and casually mention how lovely his and his ex wife's wedding was - out of the blue and purely just to piss me off.

nkf Thu 26-Dec-13 23:49:38

Jesus, I always kind of suspected it was pretty grim being the other woman even if you did "win" the man, but now I'm sure of it.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Thu 26-Dec-13 23:56:19

For the record, I never feel like punching my husband, and I never have to wonder where I am in his pecking order.

It's not "normal" to feel like that, no matter how you started off

nkf Fri 27-Dec-13 00:01:51

The strangest part of your post, Blondie, is the bit where you say, "It all sounds romantic..." Actually, it doesn't sound romantic at all. It sounds awful. A really awful way to spend your twenties. Why do you imagine for one minute it sounds romantic?

bringoutthepringles Fri 27-Dec-13 00:04:47

If he does go off with his OW, it's usually not long before he has another OW on the go. What goes around, come around.

sarajane231 Fri 27-Dec-13 13:16:17

If I was married and started fancying someone else then I would talk to my husband and see if we could work through it.

Id never, ever have an affair.

Anyone who would is not someone I would ever be with, so the OW has always lost.

What she has "won" is a liar with no commitment, loyalty or love in him.

Bogeyface Fri 27-Dec-13 14:27:43

"Sometimes things just happen"

Sorry but I really hate the self excusing shite! These things never "just happen", he made a decision to have an affair over several years, and you made the decision to be his affair partner. And being together afterwards does not mean that it is true love, it just means that at some point the balance tipped slightly from his wife being the more comfortable option to you being the more comfortable option, and given your concerns about him taking you for granted, I can see why. Perhaps he saw that after years of waiting you would be so grateful to have him that you would be less demanding of his wife.

I feel very sorry for you, you dont know what you have "won" do you?

Bogeyface Fri 27-Dec-13 14:29:25

That should be "less demanding than his wife"

Also, his wedding being mentioned, so what? She was his legitimate wife, mother of his children and DIL to his family. They has every right to mention it should they so choose. Just because you wish that she had never existed doesnt mean that everyone else has to play along and airbrush her out of his past.

anapitt Fri 27-Dec-13 14:42:14

yes of course it happens.
I know several incredibly happy couples whose relationships started as affairs.

FolkGirl Fri 27-Dec-13 23:11:00

I'm not sure that's true that there will be another OW, pringles

My dad stayed with the OW until he died. He wasn't a philanderer or a ladies man. He was actually a quiet man with few expectations out of life who found true love with someone other than the woman he married (my mother).

I doubt my exH will go on to have another affair. I would say the same is true of him. In retrospect, we should never have been married. I would have been prepared, at the time, to put up and shut up for the sake of the children, but tbh, he did me a favour. I'm much happier now that I ever remember being. Will he be with the OW for the rest of his life? I'd be surprised simply because she's very different from him and is interested in things he's always been very scornful of. But then she does seem to feel a genuine affection for him, and she clearly pays attention to him; she bought my children very thoughtful Christmas gifts.

Who knows, but I do think there is a difference between someone who has many affairs because they like the thrill of it and someone who meets someone they genuinely fall for in a way they never anticipated happening.

FolkGirl Fri 27-Dec-13 23:14:33

But I do think that there is a difference between people who end up as a couple because their affair was discovered and their hands were forced, and those who choose to be together because they genuinely love each other.

EBearhug Fri 27-Dec-13 23:17:42

My parents' best friends split up when I was 14. He left for the OW - their marriage (now over 25 years) has lasted longer than his first did.

bringoutthepringles Sat 28-Dec-13 00:26:15

Can't believe some people here are trying to justify adultery.

FolkGirl Sat 28-Dec-13 01:49:03

I'm not justifying adultery, but you only get one life. If one person is unhappy in a marriage, everyone is unhappy in the marriage (only have to read threads on here to see that).

I don't think many people go into marriage wanting/expecting/anticipating it to end, but if it does run it's course and one person or the other meets 'the one' 20 years down the line, should they really just put up and shut up? Tolerate being unhappy and undoubtedly make the other person unhappy in the process.

I don't know that they should.

Lweji Sat 28-Dec-13 06:15:41

I agree that sometimes people are unhappy in their marriages but don't find the motivation to actually leave until they meet someone else.
Not the best way of doing things, but lots of us should have left the marriage before it got as bad as it did.
And it is different to end the marriage because they want out, to be with someone else, and to be found out while having an affair, but not wanting to leave the current partner/cosy situation. I know which would piss me off the most and would lose my respect the most.

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 28-Dec-13 06:48:06

I know of two couples who have now been married to the person they left their marriage for for far longer than they were originally married (eg married first for 15 years; gave been married to second spouse for 25 years). So it does happen and it becomes increasingly hard to hold it against them when you see how it was definitely the right decision for them (even if it fucks up lots of other people's lives).

FolkGirl Sat 28-Dec-13 08:27:53

I agree Lweji.

I was talking to my brother last night about my exH and I could pinpoint several big points over the years where I should have left, I'm sure there are points when he should.

I can cope with the idea that someone just isn't in love with me any more and that they have found someone else. That's not disrespectful, that's life and it just happens.

It's the lying, betrayal and deceit that goes with an affair that does the damage.

People often stay for longer than they should for fear of the unknown or what other people will say.

ALittleStranger Sat 28-Dec-13 08:48:49

There is huge expectation and pressure to keep a marriage going, even if it should never have even begun. I think that makes it very hard for people to simply leave because they're unhappy - we're almost told that periods of happiness are the price for a life-long commitment and you have to accept "for better for worse". I think this is especially true of men who fare so much worse on their own after a certain age. I think this makes it very hard for people to leave a marriage simply because they are unhappy. But poof, introduce a third party and suddenly there's a valid reason. Plus lust and maybe even love which have never yet been known to make people act more rationally.

comingintomyown Sat 28-Dec-13 08:56:33

We stay married too long and XH called it a day

At the point of him actually moving out he got together with someone who he is still with four years later and due to marry

Discovering her did make our split a great deal more painful for me and her involvement with my DC was also very hard to swallow. If he had had a little more spine he would have waited until we had actually split before seeing someone else and that is my problem with affairs .

On a different note though the OW meant we had a clean break and there was never any question of toing and froing would we get back together etc and as the marriage was not at all good for me that was a positive thing

comingintomyown Sat 28-Dec-13 09:07:26

I agree and I know he found it hard to leave because he was unhappy and actually said to me he was no good on his own hence why when OW presented herself up he jumped on that life raft sharpish

nkf Sat 28-Dec-13 11:16:18

In my case, the OW did me a favour. The pain of the affair was dreadful and my ex was a spiteful shit. I wanted out but he didn't want to leave, didn't want to end things. Kept lying and promising. And guilt tripping me using my love for the children as a weapon.

Personally, I think it was only when he was sure that the OW would have him for good that he went. If it hadn't been for her, he'd still be here, moaning and sulking and punching doors and threatening me.

Did the OW win in this situation? Apparently they are happy but is that a win? If it is, I won too because I'm much happier. And I think the children no longer witness disgusting things. So, I guess they win too. It still seems a childish way to look at divorce though.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 28-Dec-13 11:50:06

nkf, could I have your persmission to paste your reply on another thread please ?

bringoutthepringles Sat 28-Dec-13 13:59:07

In my view, an unhappy marriage does not justify an affair. What happened to "my word is my bond"? You either try to fix the relationship (and it takes two to do that) or if all else fails, end it. Only once it has ended (and both parties have acknowledged this, either by agreement or a divorce) should they move on.

itwillgetbettersoon Sat 28-Dec-13 14:14:13

Nkf - brilliant reply and I totally agree with you. My STBXH would never have left me and the kids for the OW until she offered to come and pick him up one Sunday afternoon! That made his decision easier and stopped the tooing and froing he had done for weeks and I had allowed as I couldn't see beyond the kids.

Has the ow won? She is 27 and he is 47 - no I don't think she has. She has won a middle aged man with two young kids that he is going to have to financially support for at least another ten years ( to give him credit he is happy to give his kids all of his money) half a piss poor pension and some bloody awful ILs. And me? I'm getting happier by the day as I see what a miserable controlling selfish sod he is!

Lweji Sat 28-Dec-13 14:26:12

No, it doesn't justify it, Pringles. But some people won't address the issues in the marriage nor leave until they know they'll be with someone else. Sometimes the other person may be a trigger to realise there are issues with the marriage.

Sometimes it may happen to people in abusive relationships, who may only find the strength to leave when supported by someone else.

Bogeyface Sat 28-Dec-13 14:55:25

Lweji

Abusive relationships are not really in question here though are they? I think we would all agree that being abused changes the game totally, and therefore even I wouldnt condemn an abused person for seeking some love and support elsewhere in order to allow them to leave. My only concern would be whether they were jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

The affairs being discussed here are where one partner checks out of a marriage without giving the other partner a chance to fix things, or to make a joint decision. I was so angry that H made unilateral decisions about our marriage without even letting me know, never mind discussing it with me. I had no idea that I was not in a faithful, truthful and monogamous marriage, but he did.

Lweji Sat 28-Dec-13 14:58:57

I never said it was justifiable. The person leaving the relationship for another relationship, having cheated, is still a cheater and someone I wouldn't respect. Or want to have a relationship with.
But everyone is entitled to leave a relationship, having worked on it, or not.

Bogeyface Sat 28-Dec-13 15:06:27

Lweji I totally agree about leaving if you choose, we all have the right to decide who we want to be in a relationship and to end it too. I was just saying that abusive relationships do change it for me. I am not at all forgiving of infidelity, in any form but that said, I can see how say a woman who is being physically abused may not feel safe leaving unless she leaves to be with a man who she feels can help protect her and her children. It doesnt make it right, but I do understand why she would do that.

itwillgetbettersoon Sat 28-Dec-13 15:16:04

If the marriage isn't right both parties should discuss it and make some decisions either way. Both parties should be able to treat each other with respect.

An affair allows one party to control the other and treat them like shit. That is the bit I don't understand. One weekend you think you are married to your soul mate the nxt weekend you find out that they have lied and treated you like a bit of dirt on their shoes. How does that change happen?

Lweji Sat 28-Dec-13 15:46:46

The sudden change is only in your perspective (of the person being cheated on). For the other person it is more gradual if they fall in love, probably, but at some point they had to make the choice to cheat, at least physically, and to keep the lie. Or to make the choice to keep the meetings and contact with the other person from their partner.

I also don't agree that people should leave for another someone else. Ideally, the marriage should be dealt with first, even if the partner happened to fall in love first. But, for me, there are degrees of "wrongness". The worst being just cheating with no intention of leaving.

itwillgetbettersoon Sat 28-Dec-13 16:51:28

Lweje - I agree the change for the person having the affair isn't sudden. And in truth it isn't sudden for the wife or husband as deep down they know something isn't right but can't just pin point it. Their partners are distant, cruel, male no effort in the relationship etc. but the link isn't obvious until it happens.

I just wish my STBXH had spoken to me, then left to live on his own for a while then moved in with ow. It would have been easier for our kids, my parents and his parents to handle and pick ourselves up from. But ultimately he is a coward.

Varya Sat 28-Dec-13 16:53:39

No not usually, although OW snared my married Dad and left my late mother heartbroken. :- (

hermionepotter Sat 28-Dec-13 18:21:02

I'm nodding along to so much of this especially itwillgetbettersoon posts - it's not the affair itself that hurts so much (and that hurts ^a lot^) as the feeling you've been well and truly shat on from a great height by the person you thought you were closest to.

I still can't decide (and I'm years on) whether the shitty behaviour (distant/cruel and so on as you describe) of my ex was the real him and this was always his behaviour (and he's often been a git since) or whether the bit I seem to remember from earlier years was real. In that sense I feel like he's shat on the entire marriage - I don't want to feel that way as I want to remember the good bits now, for the sake of my dcs

hermionepotter Sat 28-Dec-13 18:23:01

so yes I think it's fair to say no-one is a winner in this situation and it's a bizarre turn of phrase IMO OP

Bogeyface Sat 28-Dec-13 18:27:04

Hermione

He acts like that because he has to believe everything he is saying, that it is all your fault that he cheated, that if you were nicer/kinder/sexier/less lazy blah blah then he wouldnt have cheated. In order for that to be true, he needs to treat you as if you were not all the things he said you needed to be, that then gives him free rein to treat you like shit. If he doesnt treat you like shit then that means you are actually a nice, kind sexy non lazy person, and he cant justify what he did.

And the fact that every day he has to look in a mirror and see a lying cheating sleaze who threw his marriage away for a shag.

Bogeyface Sat 28-Dec-13 18:27:20

That doesnt read terribly well does it?! grin I hope you get my meaning!

hermionepotter Sat 28-Dec-13 18:49:33

it makes sense bogey thanks yes I think that's right. He has apologised since and I think must sometimes be confused about why he threw so much away for nothing really, but it's just a sad situation all round, I want him to move on now as we all have to (I did give him a chance at the time but he was still seeing OW behind my back) He didn't end up with OW

I look back on it with a sense of bewilderment and great loss and sorrow. I wonder if I could've done things different but it really doesn't help that I didn't know what was actually going on so I think I constantly felt confused for a long time

It does affect my ability to trust in romantic relationships now too sad although I know rationally any relationships are a leap of faith

itwillgetbettersoon Sat 28-Dec-13 19:11:00

Agree with you Hermione. That is exactly how I feel. A sense of bewilderment. Our lives changed so quickly and cruely. I will never forgive him for that. I do look at him now and think I ignored a lot of his nasty impatient behaviours.

Not sure if I will ever trust someone again. Infact I've gone off men at the moment. Hopefully this will change one day when I'm ready.

nkf Sat 28-Dec-13 20:50:06

AnyFucker, if you think it might help someoen, you are welcome to cut and paste my reply on another thread? Which one?

Itwillgetbetter, actually your name is right. It will get better. It does. And Hermione too. Maybe not soon, but in time. In my experience, you have to make it happen though. Time helps but I had to consciously decide not to be bitter and not to go on and on about it to friends. And to list all the good things about my life. But, it will get better.

voddiekeepsmesane Sat 28-Dec-13 20:59:04

I do find this "unhappy in a marriage" shite of an excuse. I was unhappy in my marriage ...so I LEFT...then had another relationship, not the other way around. If you are that unhappy then leave, and if the married man is THAT unhappy he would leave his wife/partner. People who have affairs want the excitement of sneaking around and the security of home life. In other words they are selfish!

BeCool Sat 28-Dec-13 21:27:25

My step-mum "won" her married man. Got it all. Until 23 years later when it all went hugely tits up in most destructive way. And then for years after she rue the day she met him.

justtoomessy Sat 28-Dec-13 21:32:22

The OW in my marriage is now my ex's wife so yes. Again he lost his child but only because he can't be arsed to see him and she doesn't want children so no way does she want a lively 4 year old around.

She's welcome to the lying cheating arse and she is his 3rd wife!

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 28-Dec-13 23:40:46

nkf it was Malcolm's thread (if you have seen it) but the moment has passed now anyway, but thanks

bringoutthepringles Sun 29-Dec-13 23:26:24

Even if OW does "win" the man, the relationship will always have a stink about it.

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