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Aargh have I blown it by having sex on first date?

(656 Posts)
Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:11:43

I would really appreciate some impartial advice......

I've been single for 6 years and have an 8 year old DD. I met a lovely guy online recently and after texting for 2 weeks we arranged to go out for a meal. He's the same age as me but has no DC. We had chatted a lot on the phone before meeting and we seemed to have a lot in common, etc. There was a lot of sexual chemistry on the phone, but we agreed we both liked each other and on the first date would only kiss. We went out at the weekend there and immediately hit it off. I really like him and had a good feeling about him straight away. But...... after dinner he left me home and we ended up having sex (it was amazing sorry TMI... but definitely not typical awkward first sex). In the middle of it we both said we shouldn't be doing this but in the end couldn't keep our hands off each other. Wen he left he texted me saying what a great night he had, and yesterday he texted 3 times, just things like "good morning xx" etc.

But today - I've had a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach all day, worrying he'll think I was too easy and that we've blown it - then tonight he texted apologising for what happened, said it was fantastic but not like him at all and he didn't want "anything too heavy too quick." I texted back agreeing and said I knew we shouldn't have done it so soon, and that I hoped we hadn't ruined things. He replied no, but just didn't want anything too heavy. I jokingly texted back that we should start again and next time meet somewhere neutral and have kiss on cheek only, he agreed. Prior to meeting we had talked about going to Christmas market some day, so I suggested that we do that this weekend (he'd asked me last week about it but until today I hadn't been able to get a babysitter). S he texted back, saying he would like to but "needs to get out of a sport thing" he has on Sunday but he would definitely know on Thursday. I said no problem just let me know, he said he will. I'd say this is genuine as he is in the local sports club where he lives and helps run events.

Sorry this is so long but I'd be so grateful for your opinions as to whether I've ruined things!! Many thanks in advance.

TheCrumpetQueen Mon 09-Dec-13 19:14:06

Don't worry, sounds like he's into you so shouldn't matter

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:16:06

Thanks I really hope so, I'm trying hard not to physically kick myself if that were possible! I think I can survive until Thursday when he lets me know, but will be so disappointed if it doesn't work out....

DisappointedHorse Mon 09-Dec-13 19:17:49

He sounds keen.

But - If a man is put off by you having sex on a first date, you're better off cutting your losses. He's having sex too and it's outrageous. neanderthal double standards.

PoppadomPreach Mon 09-Dec-13 19:22:00

I think it all sounds very promising and I'm a real sceptic! Hope it works out for you.....

CuntyBunty Mon 09-Dec-13 19:22:22

I had sex with DH as a one night stand, never mind the "respectability" of a first date. Here we are, 20 years later, still at it like knivesgrin.

If he keeps going on about "nothing too heavy", he probably means emotionally. If you both enjoy the sex (you obviously have the chemistry) go for it! I would in your situation.

Mumsyblouse Mon 09-Dec-13 19:23:15

Sometimes if there's a very powerful chemistry, I think it's better out of the way!

Not always, and not if you are dating a few people at the same time, but you met him you talked loads already you liked him, I don't see this as a big issue.

I wouldn't go on and on about it next time you get together, just go with the flow. See if he lets you know about Thurs or pursues another date and take it from there.

If not then for whatever reason he's not looking for a relationship and I doubt that it will be down to you having sex first time.

SweetSeraphim Mon 09-Dec-13 19:24:26

What Disappointed said.

BUT - I don't like the post sex guilt thing much, tbh. I don't really understand it - it's like men assume that as soon as we've fucked them, we're going to get all emotionally involved hmm so they have to make their position clear. Pisses me right off.

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:25:05

Oh thanks, I'm loving these replies! I am a nightmare as I tend to over-analyse things, having been out of the dating scene for so long I had forgotten the pain that is the first few days after a first date.......

I guess I will have a better idea tomorrow how he feels, he usually texts first thing in the morning to say good morning and then later that day, so if he doesn't I guess it may mean he's cooling off.....

Fairylea Mon 09-Dec-13 19:26:47

It's 2013. Shouldn't make any different whatsoever!

You still like him, why wouldn't he still like you?

Give him a chance smile

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:27:06

Yes I think he might be trying to let me know about not wanting to get emotionally involved too quickly.... I think my texts today have hopefully been cool/casual enough not to scare him, so hopefully another date will happen!

BertieBowtiesAreCool Mon 09-Dec-13 19:27:06

No you haven't, don't worry!

As Horse says if he's put off by sex on the first date then he's likely to be a misogynistic arse. (and you've saved yourself time!)

If he was only around for sex and is going to leave now, then he was a misogynistic arse. (and he would have done later)

Decent blokes don't care if you have sex on the first date or the 50th, they care that you're having a good time and are happy with the speed things are going.

Although - I would be wary of the "don't want anything too heavy" comment - I wouldn't bring it up in a text but next time you see him it would definitely be worth having a conversation about what he wants from a relationship, because "not too heavy" can mean anything from "I want to see how things go, I don't want to sign up for marriage and children just yet, but am open to the possibility once I've got to know someone for a long time" to "I've just come out of a serious relationship and don't want to get too involved" or even "I just want something casual". Make sure you're on the same page before you let it go too far, and don't fall into the trap of thinking he might change his mind - be upfront and it will save you both a lot of heartache.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 09-Dec-13 19:29:24

The thing is that the ONLY way to find out if you're with the kind of wanker who'd judge you for sleeping with them on the first date, is to sleep with them on the first date.

So let's see whether he passes the first wanker test.

I'd already be a bit hmm at his need to keep saying that you shouldn't have done it.

It's sex. You both enjoyed it. There's no reason on earth why you shouldn't have done it.

I'd also be a bit hmm about his repeated stressing of "nothing too heavy", like now he's shagged you he wants to keep you at arm's length in case you get "ideas".

ThisIsMeNow Mon 09-Dec-13 19:29:55

I would be worrying more about him saying 'nothing too heavy' as it seems he's said this a few times?
Obviously neither of you want to get married on your second date but is he actually looking for a relationship?

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:31:26

Thanks Bertiebowties, yes I admit I was slightly alarmed by his comment.... As far as I know he hasn't been in any recent relationships, I think one ended last year. I would like to know what he's thinking, we hadn't had that conversation although he'd said twice on the phone that he'd like us to go on holiday next summer together, and had even been talking about which dates we can take annual leave.

ALittleStranger Mon 09-Dec-13 19:31:27

You're adults, why do you both keep apologising for having sex?

If he disrespects you for it then why would you want a relationship with him anyway?

BertieBowtiesAreCool Mon 09-Dec-13 19:31:40

I don't think so Join, because if said guy is a wanker they will usually find something else to let you know they are a wanker. Like, waiting "too long" for sex can be a nice wanker-test too. But generally, being yourself and watching out for red flags is best. No need to act in a way you don't feel natural acting just to spot wankers!

nomorecrumbs Mon 09-Dec-13 19:32:09

"nothing too heavy" means he hasn't fallen for you yet, in my book.

You just need to wait til he does!

And preferably keep him lusting after you until he does.

Confitdecanard Mon 09-Dec-13 19:33:27

Don't worry - the fact you couldn't keep your hands off each other is good news! I did it with DH on our first date, made no difference in the long run. I did worry for a few days that he would think I was too easy and he spent those few days worrying I thought he'd taken advantage. Once we talked it through it was fine. Still at it nine years later.

ALittleStranger Mon 09-Dec-13 19:33:40

x-post. Sorry OP but there are a few red flags waving. Hopefully they'll turn out to be red herrings but I am very, very wary of anyone who makes longer term plans before you've met. Even talking about a second date before a first is presumptive in my mind. I'd be wary that he's trying to sucker you in with a vision of a future he never intends to give, and more importantly can't possibly know if either of you want yet.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 09-Dec-13 19:33:42

Bertie - that was a joke! grin

The OP has already shagged him, so it obviously felt right.

I was just saying that, far from doing the wrong thing, there is a hidden benefit of finding out early whether he's that kind of wanker.

BertieBowtiesAreCool Mon 09-Dec-13 19:33:46

Don't be alarmed by it - he's just being honest and upfront with you which is fair. You really NEED to ascertain what it means, though.

Don't be put off by the fear that he might say "Oh, sorry, looks like we're looking for different things then" - it's FAR better that you do that with just a conversation, than get involved, go on holiday etc and after a year or so realise he doesn't want to go anywhere with you - waste of everyone's time. Figure out what YOU want from a relationship and then see if his aims are compatible with yours.

BertieBowtiesAreCool Mon 09-Dec-13 19:34:05

Oh sorry Join grin

niceupthedance Mon 09-Dec-13 19:34:46

I would take the 'nothing too heavy' to mean he doesn't want you to assume you are exclusive now because you have had sex.

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:38:54

Thanks again, this all sounds like good advice! I'm going to have to try to stop checking my phone until Thursday! Thank goodness Im working somewhere tomorrow which has terrible mobile phone reception so I'll not be able to keep looking for a new message!

BertieBowtiesAreCool Mon 09-Dec-13 19:42:19

Keep yourself busy! It's multi purpose - distracts you from constantly checking messages etc, and also makes you more interesting in general because you're doing stuff. And it means you have other interesting/fulfilling things happening in your life apart from just him, so you don't feel so dependent on the relationship working out which is the best attitude to have.

Cabrinha Mon 09-Dec-13 19:43:50

Come on, it's OK to have sex!
And as others have said, if he judged you, sod him.

I also don't like the "too heavy" stuff. Not just him saying it, but you saying you'll keep your texts light and casual.
Fair enough not to come on too strong - but that should because you can't possibly be sure of him yet, not because you think you need to, to keep him.

It's fine if he wants to take it slowly, but it's OK to ask what "heavy" means. Him talking about holidays next year sounds heavy to me!

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 19:46:07

Yes I think he possibly wants "heavy" on his terms!! I can act cool and casual for a while but to be honest would need to have a chat about it sooner rather than later. If it seems he wants another date, which hopefully I will know by Thursday, I'll feel a lot happier. I hate being in this position!!

YouAreMyRain Mon 09-Dec-13 20:01:30

My ex was a ONS, lasted for 16 yrs.

I also think the not too heavy may be a way of saying that he is not emotionally available.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 09-Dec-13 20:15:03

I'd be quite put off by somebody who thought having a relationship with me was "heavy".

Meeting someone you are really into and getting to know them and maybe falling in love is one of the most fun things in life.

Don't waste your time on someone who thinks that doing those things with you would be a drag.

SweetSeraphim Mon 09-Dec-13 20:15:35

Exactamundo, Join.

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 20:36:12

I wish I hadn't really fallen for him....... Oh I think I'll have to have my phone confiscated for the next few days to stop myself checking it. Hate it that I've let a man make me feel so irrational and insecure!!

octanegirl Mon 09-Dec-13 20:50:41

I had sex on the first date and we got married...don't panic.
I know EXACTLY how you feel though!

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Mon 09-Dec-13 21:13:30

Sex on a first date is no bad thing, so don't beat yourself up!

But, he sounds like a bit of a drama llama and I wouldn't be surprised if you d

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Mon 09-Dec-13 21:14:41

*if you don't see him again for dust...

...apart from maybe a booty call now and again.


I could well be wrong though, it has been kn

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Mon 09-Dec-13 21:15:13


Jesus, my fingers have a mind of their own this evening!

Lol, he planned this all along. That is why he first insisted you pick a place in his hometown, far away from yours.

I guess he decided he would get his wicked way with you whether you were near your home, or his.....

noseymcposey Mon 09-Dec-13 21:20:57

I slept with DP on the first date and six years later we're still together. I knew he was different because instead of feeling cringey and regretful I felt bereft that he'd gone!

MillyChristmas Mon 09-Dec-13 21:27:24

You will know one way or another on Thursday. If he is looking for an excuse he will turn you down saying he cant get out of his sport thing and wont arrange anything else but will just be vague and say he will be in touch. I would have been wary of his saying he doesn't want anything heavy though. I know im going against what has been said here but if he is wanting to see you again you will know it and he will make it clear that he really likes you.

JeanSeberg Mon 09-Dec-13 21:28:11

He's telling you he's not interested but you're not listening.

something2say Mon 09-Dec-13 21:29:48

I think what he means by 'heavy' is being expected to suddenly start seeing you all the time, and generally going straight from dating into a full on relationship.

Therefore I would expect him to say no to the event this weekend, as that is a bit full on. If he says yes good, but beware he may not. In that case, I would quieten down, wait for him to have the break he needs, say till next week, texting back only when he does and leaving it a while too, and then when it all feels a bit warmer, I'd flirt wildly and have fun with him and wait for date number two.

Not the end of the world, but I'd manage carefully, this next bit x

noseymcposey Mon 09-Dec-13 21:29:55

Read rest of the thread now and I would however be wary of someone who was talking about holidays next year, while saying 'nothing heavy'. And also someone saying 'we shouldn't be doing this' while, erm doing it.

Maybe be a little cautious here smile

MillyChristmas Mon 09-Dec-13 21:29:56

I would also say the not getting heavy thing is definitely his way of saying that he is not really interested.

something2say Mon 09-Dec-13 21:31:34

I learnt not to sleep with men on the first date after a man asked me whether I always did that and made out that I did. I of course recognized the double standard, but I also recognized, for myself, that I'd have quite liked the buildup myself, after a period of being single, and I played it so I didn't get that, when it could have been lovely. I waited with my current partner and am glad x

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 21:53:00

Quintessential you remember me from AIBU!! I was too embarrassed to post there after my daft thread on Friday...

I guess I was wanting everyone on here to tell me of course he's interested but I know I need to consider that he isn't, so as not to build up my hopes for this weekend. No matter what, I'm definitely not texting until I hear from him, and Somethingtosay I like your advice! I'm really hoping I'll be able to update on Thurs with good news...

Gah I hate feeling like this!

SoleSorceress Mon 09-Dec-13 21:55:05

Oh it is all so confusing sad

Yes I do remember you Laurel, but that is mostly because I love laurels!!!

Laurel1979 Mon 09-Dec-13 21:57:57


(not because your thread was so daft, btw I should add)

SirRaymondClench Mon 09-Dec-13 22:49:27

Have you heard from him tonight Op?

antimatter Mon 09-Dec-13 22:56:27

I really hope I am wrong but this is typical male behaviour discussed on many other dating threads. He is likely to distance himself from you and cool it all down.

It would have happened even if sex was on a 3-rd or a 4-th date.
Guys like him aren't interested in relationships.
It's nothing to do with how you acted and what you did. all to do with his plans and attitude to dating.

btw - has he written on his online profile that he is looking for LTR or dating?

beaglesaresweet Tue 10-Dec-13 00:55:43

OP, definitely do NOT raise the subject of the nature of your r-ship next time you meet (I don't agree with Bertie on this).
By having that sort of serious conversation you are exactly 'being heavy'! As you ar both anxious at the moment for various reasons, just trust me - be light hearted and have a laugh on the next date, kiss if you like, but do not ask his intentions or sleep again, if that's how shaken you are. Go like this until HE shows signs of wanting more involvement, I think it will happen very soon by the sound of it, if you show you are happy to relax and just enjoy the moment. If he really isn't up to a relationship, you will notice this very soon.

SomethingAboutRadishes Tue 10-Dec-13 01:00:19

I'm a bit of a "Get the first time over with" kind of a gal blush - but I've never had a one night stand.

If a bloke really likes you it won't put him off and if it does then he's no loss.

beaglesaresweet Tue 10-Dec-13 01:05:52

not necessarily, anti. He may have had a bad experience in the past with a woman who got hugely emotional after having sex - it does happen a lot! It doesn't mean he's not interested in OP, he just wants gradual progress probably. If anything, players distance temselves later on, after having a few hot sex sessions while giving promises. It's unusual to be so upfront after just one time, for a player.

It can also mean that he seriously likes OP and is guarding his own emotions (like he's telling HIMSELF not to get emotional yet). The only way to find out is to slow down and see what happens, untill they both feel more confident. If he just disappears , he's a wanker and it's no loss, but wouldn't write him off at this stage! I'm sure OP doesn't really want to just head first emotionally either at this point anyway.

beaglesaresweet Tue 10-Dec-13 01:07:42

just rush in head first

As Horse says if he's put off by sex on the first date then he's likely to be a misogynistic arse. (and you've saved yourself time!)

Yes to that!

sisterelephant Tue 10-Dec-13 07:08:20

My current Dp was what I thought was a one night stand. 5 years and one DS later things are still amazing!

He sounds lovely, just go with the flow.

Ifancyashandy Tue 10-Dec-13 07:21:16

God, this is why I love MN. Recently met a guy - chased me (but not too much). Spent the night together. No sex but pretty fruity... He's since gone slightly AWOL - texts only, no phone call / mention of meeting up again and you, lovely MNers, have made me realise that:

A) if he's freaked out by nearly sleeping with me on our first date together, then he's a misognystic arse.

B) if he was only after the semi-sex but put the 'ground work' in, then he's a misogynistic arse.

C) if I am wrong and he's just got stuff going on, then he'll prove to not be a misogynistic arse and all will come good. But...

D) keeping busy / living well is the best tonic in the world (have another lunch date tomorrow)

Ultimately, his loss - not in an arrogant sense but I'm nice and relationships are / can be good fun and his loss for not having that with me.

Thanks MN and soz for hijack!!

HairyGrotter Tue 10-Dec-13 07:34:23

I don't like the sound of him, if I'm honest. Absolutely nothing wrong with sex on a first date, or ONS etc, it's 2013, we should be all cool about this minor fucking thing. I slept with my fiancé on the first date, mind you, wasn't really thinking LTR.

This should be easy, having to second guess things means something's not clear. He's already flagged up he's emotionally unavailable, he's reeling you in, giving it all the 'oh I feel terrible about being so quick to have sex'...setting up the nice guy thing, but also, in the next sentence saying 'I don't want anything too heavy'...what are his dating intentions, cause he sounds a fucking sort.

My fiancé was very clear with his wants, he wanted a relationship, heavy or not, this fella is also being clear...he wants to fuck about

I would also do what something2say said. That's how I approach dating and I wouldn't discuss where the dating is going yet either. That would come across as heavy. Just relax and enjoy it and definitely wait at least 30 mins before replying to a text each time and when you do, keep it light and friendly.

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 07:44:26

Thanks for the replies. I feel your pain Ifancyashandy!

I haven't heard anything yet, tbh not expecting to until Thurs now. For the 2 weeks until we met on Sat he'd been sending me a good morning text, but Im not expecting that now, although its hard not to keep checking my phone!

On his dating profile he'd stated LTR, but that his longest relationship was less than a year. I wish I could stop trying to analyse his intentions, but just so confused as I generally have a good bullshit radar, having previously dated several b*******, but he just seemed so keen beforehand and I had such good vibes about him. Whatever happens, no way am I contacting him unless I hear from him first...

HairyGrotter Tue 10-Dec-13 07:48:40

He's followed the classic pattern, loads of attention and texts before the 'event' now he's got what he wanted, he can barely be arsed to say 'morning'.

My gut tells me he's relationship material. If you're OK with that, crack on, but if you're not, your over analysing will be painful, and a waste of your time sad

Find someone to share what you both want, wasting time of these chumps gets soul destroying

I thought it was a good sign he contacted you after the sex. But there were a few red flags as well. I hope you do hear from him again.

The chap I was dating has gone silent a week ago now. It's so hard.

PiperChapman Tue 10-Dec-13 07:59:23

sadly these arent good signs. I'd be amazed if this led to anything.

cut your losses

49howdidthathappen Tue 10-Dec-13 08:07:31

Sounds a bit of a stone age charmer cunt

Chuck him back in smile

antimatter Tue 10-Dec-13 08:17:58

Longest relationship under a year at that age - red flag for me!

MrsMiniver Tue 10-Dec-13 08:22:53

Don't like the fact that he's stopped sending you good morning texts after 2 weeks, means he was only prepared to make an effort right at the start. Not good! And if he goes cold after first date sex, better you know now. In my experience, if a relation starts well it stands a chance. Might be wrong of course but who wants mind games when you're a grown-up? And why be with a man who makes you feel insecure, you're worth a lot more than that.

Ifancyashandy Tue 10-Dec-13 08:27:30

This thread is SO good for me!!

DownstairsMixUp Tue 10-Dec-13 08:31:34

Op it does sound as if he is a waster but dont be put off by him! I met my dp on a dating site (and by the sounds the same as yours, pof?) We spoke for weeks before a date but had sex first date as we had so much chemistry. Been together four years now and engaged. Difference was he constantly text me mornings and ring me. I knew he liked me. No questioning! Thats the way it should be!

I have a fair bit of experience with this sort of thing too.

There are a few red flags for sure. The drop off in texts after the date is one, the nothing too heavy is another

I wouldn't build up my hopes for this one OP. You never know though. Just don't make him a priority yet.

frenchmanicure Tue 10-Dec-13 08:54:29

I think putting too much store by how much someone does or doesn't text is a mistake. There's no need for constant contact and in fact I've come to see the guys who make a big performance of early morning/late night texts are usually bullshitters or players.

I'm currently seeing someone who probably texts me less than 10 times in total in a week. At first I interpreted this as a lack of interest, which it isn't at all.

That said, I think this guy might be a bit of a waste of time. The texting isn't an issue, the not committing to a date next weekend isn't either. What are issues in my view are firstly his constant reference to not wanting anything heavy (which sounds to me like he's saying that it's only ever going to amount to casual sex) and secondly the fact he was planning stuff before he'd met you. That sounds like a ruse to reel you in and get you to shag him, thinking he was a nice, relationship-minded guy, when in fact he was nothing of the kind.

I may be entirely wrong of course, but he sounds like a typical OD inadequate bloke, who likes the idea of a relationship, but really just wants to shag about. There are a few decent ones out there - but they are a tiny minority!

Junebugjr Tue 10-Dec-13 09:09:30

He's giving off mixed signals, which seems designed for you to overanalyse it and drive you nuts grin
Don't have the talk to clarify your relationship at this point, I think he'd run for the hills. So would I if someone started on about this after a few weeks. Does he know you are after a LTR not just casual dating. Were your chats before you met sexual in nature?
I wouldn't be keen on the whole hot first of all, then cooling down he's playing out. Dh and i had sex quite quickly, but afterward he got even more keen, an chased me even more. But give him the benefit of the doubt, and see what happens over the weekend.

whoselifeisitanyway Tue 10-Dec-13 09:36:15

He was telling you to back off when he said he doesn't want anything too heavy. He said the sex was too soon. He had an excuse up his sleeve re. this weekend. Now he can't even be bothered to text you good morning. Sorry but he's been there, done it and he obviously doesn't want to go there again.

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 09:45:53

"For the 2 weeks until we met on Sat he'd been sending me a good morning text, but Im not expecting that now, although its hard not to keep checking my phone! "

So you've stopped expecting him to be nice to you now that you've actually met him and shagged him? confused

Look, that is a fucking terrible sign.

Come on - it's a bad enough sign that he was sending you good morning texts when he hadn't even met you.

But he stops once you've become a real person and after you've gone to bed with him?


Do you hear me? grin

You are NOT FREE.

Make sure of it by making plans with someone else.

Under no circumstances should you spend all week waiting to hear whether he'll deign to cancel his sport thing (he won't) for you.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Dec-13 10:12:10

I think I love you Join grin

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 10:16:43


That's my Christmas smooch face SweetSeraphim

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Dec-13 11:27:44


Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 13:28:18

Thanks for all the replies.... Really struggling not to look at my phone, I guess I'll know if I don't hear from him by Thurs but its painful not to keep checking for messages. Really wish I hadn't fallen for him!

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 13:32:25

It doesn't matter if you look at your phone.

Nobody will know (even us grin)

But it DOES matter that you are waiting, desperately hoping that he'll agree to go out with you.

THAT's heavy - it's just desperation.

You can't have fallen for this guy - you JUST met him.

Spend the time between now and Thursday thinking about why place such a low value on yourself that you are DESPERATE for positive feedback from a man you don't know and who has already told you that he's not that interested.

glasgowsteven Tue 10-Dec-13 13:43:48

He got what he wanted, he has moved on sad

but at least you never wasted toomuch time on him

and you enjoyed the sex....

BertieBowtiesAreCool Tue 10-Dec-13 13:51:37

Join is right - you haven't fallen for him, you don't know him yet. You've fallen for a fantasy, of what might be/could be with him, which you don't even know is going to happen yet. Slow down!

piratecat Tue 10-Dec-13 13:53:31

sorry but you should have heard from him by now. at best he's thinking it all over, and isn't sure about you and him becoming an item.

at worst, i don't think you'll be getting any more texts. I know that's harsh, but it sounds as though he's ducking out of getting to know you further.

If it were me, and i do make alot of mistakes, I'd clarify what he meant by heavy. I'd ask if having met you, he is not wanting a relationship with you.

Saying about xmas markets and holidays is ridiculous when at that stage you'd not met. He was probably feeling hopeful for a ltr, but he might not really want one.
Plus and no offence to you, it's the sort of thing we all envisage and you may have got your hopes up too soon.

piratecat Tue 10-Dec-13 13:54:50

and no you've not blown it, sex is natural and quite normal to want and carry through when you are attracted to someone. You both did the deed.

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 13:55:51

Aargh I know you guys are right, but I just can't think logically about it! I guess because until he started weirding out on me yesterday everything else seemed perfect.... Thank goodness Im working this afternoon to take my mind off it all! This day is really dragging in!

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 13:59:29

Join I totally agree.

Text him and say that your sorry but you won't be free this weekend as you have plans with a friend. Then watch him back pedal. He will be phoning you saying that he has managed to arrange things so he is off etc but you must not capitulate. You must day your ever so sorry but as he couldn't make definat plans that something else came up. He needs to know that you are a busy woman with a busy social life and its hard ti fit him in. Then be busy if he suggests Sunday. He has to work for it .

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:00:15

Sorry for typos...using phone

daphnesglasses Tue 10-Dec-13 14:05:39

No! don't text him! just sit tight and see what he does or even delete his number and that way you won't feel tempted. Why not just set your own boundary eg if he's contacted you by thursday midday see him and if it's after that just say pleasantly that you've made other plans. That's what I'd do.

If he's not interested enough then he's not the man for you. But in any case you don't know him yet so don't rush into thinking he is right for you anyway - he may well not be

Ephiny Tue 10-Dec-13 14:08:29

I don't believe in these 'rules' - why shouldn't two unattached adults have sex if they're attracted to each other and they both want to? It's only a problem if you attach more meaning to it than that.

If he doesn't want a serious relationship with you, then that's just the way it is, I doubt you not sleeping with him would have made any difference to that.

BertieBowtiesAreCool Tue 10-Dec-13 14:10:34

OP, read everything on this site! It's great, really helped me change my mindset.

piratecat Tue 10-Dec-13 14:10:55

There's no way I'd not text, after having been in regular contact by text and on phone.

I'd get in there first actually, rather than sit about. If op accepts it's ok for him to just text on thursday, (and he might and she could well take him up on the offer of weekend date) and replies nicely after 3 days of nothing, then it tells him it's ok to drop off the face of the planet after sleeping together.

That's just me.

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 14:11:05

Milly I like the sound of that!!! Although have promised myself that I won't text him before he contacts me....

BertieBowtiesAreCool Tue 10-Dec-13 14:11:30

Click "Previous posts" to see more as well and just go by the titles - there are a few on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc pages which are good too.

BertieBowtiesAreCool Tue 10-Dec-13 14:13:46

This is the one I was thinking of!

Dating is a discovery phase

LaVitaBellissima Tue 10-Dec-13 14:16:36

Yes please text him and say you can't do this weekend!
I don't understand why you shouldn't be getting a good morning text now?

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:21:49

Ephiny These Rules are to weed out the men who could potentially hurt us and build self esteem. With regards to dating some men go running scared when a woman seems to be making plans. They like it when a woman is busy and has a life and doesn't appear to "need" them. Even good men respond like this even if they are not conciously aware if it.

Seriously, why would you even want to go out with now when you're so tied up in knots because he's blown cold on you?

He's gone from loads of contact to jack shit and you're still waiting around to see if he deigns to contact you?

No. Just, no.

Don't just say you have plans. MAKE plans. Forever.

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:24:01

She is not getting a good morning text because she dared to try and make plans. He got scared and has gone cold. So she needs to turn the tables by texting him NOW before he cancels on her!

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:25:00

That is a text to say in the nicest way that she is sorry but has now made other plans for this weekend.

Mishmashofstyles Tue 10-Dec-13 14:27:19

I would have been freaked out by someone talking about going on holiday before we had met!
Never mind anything else. He sounds a bit desperate!

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 14:28:09

"I guess because until he started weirding out on me yesterday everything else seemed perfect"

What "everything" was there to seem perfect? confused

This is a man you have met ONCE - he's basically a stranger.

You don't need to TELL HIM you have made other plans.


Live your life.

And stop waiting around for some man you just met to decide whether he is available to see you on Saturday.

Really, there are not enough weekends to waste one of them because you were waiting around for some bloke to decide something.

Live YOUR life.

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:29:09

Laurel if you wait for him to text you he it will be to say he is busy. If you want to change this you have to text him to say that you have other plans then if he wants to see you again he will definitely be making plans with you without keeping you waiting. As it is you ste sitting around waiting for him to hurt you.

Ephiny Tue 10-Dec-13 14:30:42

Oh I get that, Milly, I just meant the 'rule' that you're not supposed to sleep together on the first/only date. Agree about not being needy, running after him etc. It's important to have your own life and self-respect (though not just because 'men like it'!)

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:31:52

You are showing him that you are happy to sit around and wait for him because you have no life.
Do it...text him your busy and watch as he back pedals.

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 14:32:57

If you have to entice this guy to want to spend time with you by making him think you have other things to do, then you're onto a loser.

Don't do ANYTHING at this point for his benefit.

Just for your own.

And you are best served by making plans to do some fun things this weekend, and not giving this man you don't know so much headspace.

He can only hurt you if you give a shit, and given that you don't know him, you shouldn't give a shit.

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:33:35

Ephiny I agree. We should have our own lives but the OP is doing the thing we women do before we learn the correct way. grin

Seriously, Milly?

Manipulating him into wanting to see her?

JoinYourPlayfellows Tue 10-Dec-13 14:39:34

The thing is, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to go to a Christmas market with a man you just shagged.

It's not DESPERATE or NEEDY to fancy spending time with someone you fancy and are just getting to know.

The message that normal, friendly social interaction between adults who like each other is WRONG and HEAVY (because a woman is interested in it) is the SAME message as the one that paints all women as needy and desperate.

He has ALREADY told you enough for you to be absolutely crystal fucking clear that he is either not interested, or he is a player - he promised the earth before you met, he gave all that guff about sleeping together being a "mistake", he has stopped his boaky morning texts.

The only sad thing here is that this poor bastards is going to miss out on spending time with YOU.

He was very lucky to be offered the opportunity to spend this weekend with you, but he BLEW IT.

Poor fella sad grin

I feel very sorry for him. Because he came so close to something great with you and he fucked it up.

Oh well, life is too short to feel sad about him for long.

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 14:48:27

Walter NO not manipulating him. Weeding him out. If he dies want to see her and is running scared then the reality that she has a life and she is busy will either make him realise that he can't treat her badly and has to take action or he will not care and just used her for sex. Weeding out the good guys from the bad. Her self esteem is already in shreds here otherwise there would not be this thread.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 10-Dec-13 14:49:58

Laurel... I wouldn't text him, I'd drop off the planet myself. If you DO text him, how will you feel when he either replies with "That's fine" or worse still - doesn't reply at all?

You've already invested feelings and emotions into this (non) relationship. I think you should pull back completely. If he does get in touch with you, be cool and don't agree to any more of this 'push me, pull you' type contact. You'll get fed up soon enough and hopefully by that time, you won't mind so much.

I saw a great quote on here which will hit home, I think - "Never make a priority of somebody for whom you are only an option".

It is better that you found out what sort of man he is after just ONE date, than after 3 or 4. Less time and emotions invested, eh?

MillyChristmas Tue 10-Dec-13 15:50:03

Just a thought, he might be in a relationship already and uses this dating website on the side. I was a bit wary when you said that you talked about sex before the date. There are a lot of men who use these websites to prey on women. confused

That just seems like an awful lot of effort just to try and get the man to talk to her!

Fuck that!

He's not worth that. NOBODY is worth that.

Joysmum Tue 10-Dec-13 17:34:54

I don't understand why you can't just talk to him and say your concerned about giving him the wrong signals after your first date and what does he think about it.

He's not a mind reader, you're not a mind reader, and everybody on here doesn't know how he's thinking anymore than you do and will project their own thoughts into this which may, or may not be right or even helpful.

The only thing I can say is that he and my hubby talked things through from the start, weren't afraid to open up and be honest. Tbh, reading a lot of threads in the relationships forum in which those seeking, and giving, advice can't seem to actually talk about the problem or acknowledge the problem certainly don't stand much if a chance of working through it.

Just talk to him and get him to talk to you!

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 17:42:09

Join I love your posts!!

I'm pretty certain he's not on a relationship, we are friends on Facebook and it really doesn't look like there has been anyone about from what I can see.

I'm not sure if this makes any difference, sorry trying not to drip feed but was just thinking this afternoon about other stuff he said. Last week, although we had already planned to go out on Saturday night, he asked me to meet him 3 separate occasions- none suited me as I work funny hours etc. And when we first met online at the very start- he first messaged me 3 months ago through the website- he was unbelievably keen, to the point where I had to tell him to back off (as he was bombarding me with texts). It was only when I accepted his Facebook request 2 weeks ago that we got in contact , as I'd been mulling over that he probably was a decent guy. Am now wondering if he's trying to show that he's not being too keen or desperate in case I back off? Maybe Im clutching at straws though! In the message he sent me last night where he apologised for getting carried away on the first date, when I said it was ok, I didn't want to rush things either but it was the heat of the moment, he said "glad u don't hate me." Seems he thought I'd be annoyed at him for wanting to have sex on first date?

Anyhow I have the feeling I'll not hear until Thursday night when he finds out if he has to do this sports thing on Sunday. If I don't get a text on Thurs am definitely cutting my losses.......

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 17:44:45

Joysmum I'd love to talk to him but I'm now afraid to ring/text further in case he thinks Im stalking him.... But if we do meet up of if he rings I would definitely do what you've suggested

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 17:47:11

He also said something at the very start that if things didn't work out between me and him that he wouldn't try online dating again as he felt people were just looking for a quich shag online. And it does look like he's deleted his online profile

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 10-Dec-13 17:52:17

Laurel... Remember what your motivation was in posting here? You said that you wanted other people to tell you that he was 'keen'. If he really were keen, you wouldn't need to hear it from other people because you'd know it from him. You have 'spidey senses' telling you that all isn't as you'd hoped. Listen to them. Stop straw-clutching. We all do it sometimes but it serves no purpose other than to distract you from the true - or most likely - picture.

Why hasn't he texted you when he did that before? Changed behaviour right there. Don't text him - and don't be available for another date like the last one. If you do meet up again, make it a neutral place.

If he doesn't contact you tomorrow, write him off straight away - no contact at all. Whatever his lame excuse if he eventually gets in touch. You deserve better than this.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 10-Dec-13 17:54:39

How do you KNOW that he means what he says, Laurel? You seem to be taking everything as truth when you don't know him at all. He may have more than one profile, be registered on multiple sites, etc.

Do you have RL friends that you could arrange to be busy with? It would distract you from phone-checking, profile-stalking and allowing your day's thoughts to be taken up with HIM.

piratecat Tue 10-Dec-13 18:01:28

laurel he might have blocked you on the dating site. if you want to pm me i could check for you if he's still on there. that's if it's Plenty of fish x

Lazyjaney Tue 10-Dec-13 18:05:30

What Joysmum said. Rather than constructing elaborate projections of what might be in his mind and then reacting to those.

laurel he's been texting you every morning, until the day after you had sex with him and now nothing?

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 18:07:29

Thanks Piratecat I'll have a look, I haven't used the site for a few months, but his previous messages should be stored on my account I think?

I realise Im probably the one looking needy now.... Wish Zi could help myself! I have a lovely evening out planned on Thursday with my friend and her kids, then working on Friday and going to Panto on Saturday night with DD, so at least I'll be more pre occupied I hope rather than checking phone!

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 18:07:48

I, not Zi....

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 18:09:00

Yep Walter.... Apart from one day last week that is (which was also a Tuesday)

I don't know. I think it's suss.

Cut your losses!

piratecat Tue 10-Dec-13 18:14:52

if you do a search for him and he doesn't come up, either he's not on there, or isn't searchable (ie blocked).


cjel Tue 10-Dec-13 18:37:21

I don't think you ruined it but maybe you will be more aware next time. Don't contact him, wait and see!!

This could have been me and DH in 2005. We moved in together in 2006, DD was born 2009 and we married in 2011. I too thought I had blown it. Sometimes this is the best way. Good luck.

something2say Tue 10-Dec-13 19:06:17

I don't miss dating...! I hate mobile phones at the best of times! Buried in ones handbag is where they should be, not being watched anxiously, little f ers!

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 19:37:41

Havetowearheels did your DH freak out too?

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 10-Dec-13 20:03:14

Laurel you not know that he has freaked out! He may be waiting for Thursday but may well just be playing games, especially in light of the lack of chatty texts.

Agree with the posters above - live your life and fit him into it, rather than fitting your life around him.

No not really. He did call a cab for me at 5 am though, which I thought was odd, he told me he couldn't sleep with someone in his bed. This turned out to be true, he is a very fidgety sleeper and we still sometimes sleep separately. He did email me the next afternoon saying thanks for a great night and he would be in touch later in the week. He contacted me again 2 days later and we went on another date the next day.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Tue 10-Dec-13 20:04:08

That should be 'You don't know that he has freaked out'

Went met on a dating website, I think he was ready for a relationship even though he didn't specify and played it a bit cool (he was 32). I thought he was a bit of a player, turns out I was wrong.

Liara Tue 10-Dec-13 20:19:34

I had sex with dh on our first date - actually it wasn't even a date, we just had sex.

He then disappeared for a day, really cooled off. He was worried that I would feel that he was stalking me if he didn't, and was generally feeling insecure about where all this was going. He was dead keen on me but worried that he had blown it.

That was 22 years ago. I still sometimes tease him about it.

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 20:26:08

That all sounds good Havetowearheels and Liara!

I guess he maybe hasn't freaked out.... I suppose there's nothing more to say really apart from arranging next date... Which we can't really do until he goes to sports meeting on thurs. If I were looking at my posts objectively I'd think he wasn't interested, but from the conversations we've had it just doesn't fit with the impression I got at the time. The night before we met up, he rang me saying he was worried I would cancel and he would be tempted to turn his phone off on Saturday until we met, as he couldn't bear seeing a message from me pulling out of the date. Plus he hasn't had sex for a year.... Surely that wouldn't be right if he was a player.....

OP only you can judge the situation, it isn't always black and white. Who knows what he told you is true. Maybe he has lost interest, maybe he is giving you space, only time will tell.

mirry2 Tue 10-Dec-13 20:41:22

If he really wanted to see you why didn't he suggest a date on a night he knew wasn't taken up with his sports thing?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 10-Dec-13 20:58:33

I can see that you're desperately clinging on to your hopes of this relationship, Laurel, it's obvious that you're only seeing the posts that accord with what you want the situation to be.

You don't know this man; anybody can be anything online, tell you anything they want and you can't see their faces, expressions, gauge their body language. You've spent physical time with him for less than a day and you're already so invested. You have a daughter who is 8, it's not good for her to see her mum like this.

Are you actually asking yourself the questions that are nagging away at you?
* Why has the texting stopped?
* Why he didn't say that he was busy on Thursday but why not do something on x, y day instead?
* Why there's so much disparity between his online persona (wanting to go on holiday with you, yada yada) and his real person (not contacting you when he did so much before)?
* Why you're so keen to contact him when he hasn't contacted you?
* Why he shared so much information with you when he'd never even met you?
* Why you believe all that he says and pay no heed to what he does/his actions towards you?
* Why the opinions of some strangers online - who also don't know this man - validate and comfort you when they're built on nothing other than what you've said?
* What would your RL friends say about this man?

I'd hate to answer those questions, they would make me feel uncomfortable but whether you think you've 'blown it' (ridiculous) or not - you've done nothing wrong and you deserve to find somebody nice who will not make you feel like you're on a 'feelings rollercoaster'.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Dec-13 21:03:01

Exactly what Lying says.

When it's right, there's none of this shit. No second guessing, no game playing, no head games, no cold feet. It's just easy! I've done enough dating to know how this feels, honestly. It's crap. Fill your time with other things, and don't make this bloke a priority. What will be will be and all that.

Great post, Lying.

PiperChapman Tue 10-Dec-13 21:07:33

Laurel - believe one thing .. This man isn't interested in you. I know that's harsh but it's glaringly obvious from everything you've said.

Just move on and save yourself this angst and constant picking over of the situation. It would make you feel freer and in control

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 21:25:03

I know, I can see how it looks, I guess I was just hoping things would turn out differently. I hope this doesn't put me off dating for another 6 years, as I can't bear the angst. Normally I'm a laid back rational person, I know it probably doesn't come across well on this thread! I guess the reason I thought he'd text back about going to the market thing was because on Friday, he'd asked me to go with him on Sunday morning (the morning after our date). I wasn't able to as I had no babysitter, and it was only yesterday that my friend offered to mind DD next Sunday. The market isn't our main city Continental one, its a smaller artisan Christmas one that's only held on a Sunday.

Anyhow I think I'll turn my phone off soon when I go to bed to stop myself looking at it all the time! Thanks again for all the replies so far, you have all been great!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Tue 10-Dec-13 21:32:59

I think you sound desperate tbh sad. Constantly saying you are trying not to look at your phone and how you have really fallen for him. Why are you waiting for him to text you on Thursday? If you want to text him, do. He isn't in charge. I think all this angst after one date is just not worth it.

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 21:38:30

I know Toffee, I'm annoyed with myself to be honest for letting him get to me.... I don't want to look like I'm chasing him by texting - if he replies I'll not know if he would have made contact otherwise. I guess I'm using Thursday as a cut off point to have heard back from him - if I haven't I'd be too pissed off with him even if he makes contact at a later date.

LivingWellNow Tue 10-Dec-13 21:42:12

OP in answer to your question - no you haven't blown it by having sex on a first date. However all the evidence so far suggests he's not for you and THAT'S NOT ABOUT YOU OR ANY JUDGMENT ABOUT YOUR BEHAVIOUR.

Some blokes are just like that and you've been unlucky this time.

Ok, so say you hear nothing from him until Thursday - not even a "how are you?" text considering you have been getting them pre-shag; what will you do?

Laurel1979 Tue 10-Dec-13 21:53:49

Tbh Walter I'd be pissed off.... I wouldn't say anything there and then so as not to appear like a fishwife, but he certainly wouldn't be getting any more of what happened on Saturday unless he stopped acting weirdly!

SirRaymondClench Tue 10-Dec-13 21:59:47

Have you not heard from him all day?
Did he text you during the day before your date?

Well, good!

Just maybe don't be too keen to forgive days of silence for the sake of another date!

Back2Two Tue 10-Dec-13 22:04:20

Laurel...I was just about to post something a bit more positive until I read

So as not to appear like a fishwife, but he certainly wouldn't be getting any more of what happened on Saturday unless he stopped acting weirdly!

So wrong.

Fishwife? = Male stereotypical insult for woman who voices her opinion and queries shitty, disrespectful behaviour.

And then you talk about sex like some treat for him that you will use as an emotional weapon.

I think you may be fairly young? This all sounds typical and there's nothing wrong with hoping for more from someone. But, to be brutal doesn't sound good and your attitude is a one way ticket to be treated like plop.

If he's really worth his salt he'll come after you.

Cutitup Tue 10-Dec-13 22:05:20

In my experience, if guy wants to be with you, he will do everything he can to make contact with you. That's just my experience though.

The worse thing is, there is nothing you can do to make him text you. He either will or he won't. If he doesn't, it really tells you everything you need to know. He knows you are anxious about sleeping together too soon - and what has he done about it? Exactly what you told him you were scared of. Tells you the story of where he is at.

I do have a friend who just started internet dating. After a disastrous marriage, she finally bit the bullet and went on her first date. They are now totally smitten kittens and have moved in together after 10 weeks of dating. It does happen!

Keep you pecker up.

SweetSeraphim Tue 10-Dec-13 22:06:44

Listen. There are FUCKING LOADS of them out there. For every one that you like, there are thousands more like him. Honestly. Don't waste your time. Someone that hasn't been in touch since you had sex isn't interested, imo. Next!

Rosencrantz Tue 10-Dec-13 22:07:53

DH and I had first date sex! Just felt right for us as a couple!

Best of luck!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 10-Dec-13 22:12:09

Laurel, sorry, I feel as if I'm sticking the knife in but I really wish you could see how this looks in reality.

I won't repeat what I said earlier as there's no need but thinking about it:

Most women like to feel reassured about their boyfriend/partner's feelings about them. It's a feminine thing. Most men do not feel this way, they are wired differently. This man has - according to you - laid his heart on his sleeve, bared his feelings insofar as he was 'terrified that you'd cancel the date so was tempted to switch his phone off...'. If this were true, that he was an emotionally intelligent man, sensitive to your feelings, do you not think that he would be in tune with how you might be feeling? That you might like him to continue the texting?

Even if that didn't enter his mind... if he were truly the sensitive man you portray him to be, why isn't he clamouring to hear from you as you are for him? That's the killer question really... he isn't and you know it. That's why you feel bad.

Now, you have control of how this plays out from here. In your position, I'd get myself a night out with girlfriends, play good no-nonsense songs and get my shit together. Fake it till you make it is a very good philosophy here.

I'd then vow to have nothing more to do with him. Delete his number, don't reply no matter how tempted you are. He knows where you live, if he really is bereft at his shitty behaviour towards you, he knows where to find you.

Make no mistake, Laurel, this man - whatever else - is not being straight with you and if you let him, he'll toy with your feelings and affections revelling in his role as 'puppetmaster' to an out of control woman. That is horrible of him but that's what he's doing right now - he holds you in his thrall. Cut the contact and consider you've had great sex and a lucky escape.

Ask yourself this... would you want your daughter being treated as you are being? No, of course not. So, why do you consider that you deserve less? You deserve everything, a man who will cherish you and your daughter and leave you in no doubt of that. This is not the man.

For your sake - and your daughter's - please dump him. Dump him in your mind and pay no heed to anything more that he may do or say - it has no value whatsoever. You however DO have a value.

Wish you well and strength to stop deluding yourself that this is anything but what it is. It is no diminishment of you as a person, not at all, it's a diminishment of him that he treats a woman this way.

Back2Two Tue 10-Dec-13 22:15:09

It's really not about sex on the first date though is it?
Sex on first, second, tenth or waiting years till you get married.....if you think the timing of the sex is're barking up the wrong bloke. If he thinks it's important and should affect the rest of your potential for a relationship ...then he is a loser too.

It's not when we have the shag's who the shag is with. Simple.

If he was into spending time with you he'd be in touch. Shag or no shag.
At the present time, he's in control 100%.
Even if you squeeze another date out of him the balance is unequal.
He's laid out his rules.....minimal contact, lack of commitment even about an arrangement, and he doesn't want anything heavy.

He's only going to get harder work, not easier.

FlatAsSantasSacks Tue 10-Dec-13 22:20:43

Me and my partner had sex on a first date, actually it wasn't a date it was a night out that turned into meeting turning into sex. We went on a date a week later! Were still here 10 years later and 3 children, but I'm thinking this is an exception.

From what you've read he's not interested, but telling you some of things like what you want to hear and now backing off. I'd hate to be in this dating game again it sounds awful.

aurynne Tue 10-Dec-13 22:30:01

In my experience, what really puts off many men is not a woman who is keen, but one who over-analyses everything. In fact, this puts off many human beings, male or female.

Instead of making 5 different Hollywood movies in your head trying to explain why he has or hasn't texted, what he may or may not be thinking, what he may or may not mean... For goodness sake woman, think about yourself, do what you want to do, mean what you want to mean. You want to know about him? Ask him! You want to know whether or not there is anything up for Saturday? Well call him and tell him you have better things to do than waiting for him to confirm. Why the constant self-doubt and humiliation? You just met this guy. Whether or not this fizzles out or develops into a full-blown relationship., you have very little to lose. If you are yourself from the beginning, any relationship will start on a good foot. If you already start by devising 20 ways of hiding how you feel, or faking who you are, you will never be in a relationship in which you are true to yourself.

LivingWellNow Tue 10-Dec-13 22:37:20

He isn't acting weirdly - there's nothing to fathom here. You'd do well to pay particular attention to Lyings last post.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 01:46:31

great post, aurynne! found myself re-reading it. so many women should print it out and pin it on their walls wink - it really SHOULD be this easy and straight-forward.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 01:50:06

in his case, I think he is actually very insecure and is acting weird. Try to calm down, OP and see what else he does, if anything. Appear laid-back and just curious (and try to feel this way), not all emotional. Of course he can be a player after all - almost like double bluff! I'm sure all will be clear this week.

Lazyjaney Wed 11-Dec-13 07:03:30

FGS just text the bugger, tell him you enjoyed yourself and want some more. Then you'll know. These constructs of all sorts of doublethink out of thin air are pointless.

JeanSeberg Wed 11-Dec-13 07:17:48

For Christ's sake don't text him, he couldn't possibly make it any clearer that he's not interested!

Lazyjaney Wed 11-Dec-13 07:37:47

Oh bullshit. If you don't know what's going on, just fucking ask. It's 2013, not 1913.

LivingWellNow Wed 11-Dec-13 07:38:54

<pushes glasses to end of nose and glares at OP>

Do NOT text him. Really, if he was as into you as you hope he is nothing would stop him getting in touch with you before Thursday. He'd think 'bugger this I can't wait to speak to her again'. Everything you say about him in your OP tells me this is a man who, at best, is ambivalent.

everything you say about you tells me you're not. That's not a good recipe.

HairyGrotter Wed 11-Dec-13 07:44:13

All this angst for one person...

I said earlier, up thread, I had sex with my fiancé on our first date, he continued to contact me as he had done prior to our first date, it was easy, no head games, no doubting, no stress. It really SHOULDN'T be this fucking stressful and angsty. I feel like I'm back to circa 1995 reading this.

Chalk it up to experience, remember his behaviour for next time, recognise certain behaviours and save yourself all this shite. If he was interested, another date would be made sharpish and communication would remain as it were prior to sex or whatever.

Go find something to do, and when you're ready, look for someone who will value you as you well deserve.

MyBachisworsethanmybite Wed 11-Dec-13 07:52:13

Good lord, all this ranting from everyone. So many bloody agendas and reading everything from nightmare to marriage into very little.

OP step AWAY from Mumsnet. Talk to the bloke, like he's another human being. Mind-reading doesn't work, making up stories in your head is a waste of energy too. Check back into reality and see how it goes.

Laurel1979 Wed 11-Dec-13 10:54:11

Thanks again for the honest replies, they are giving me the kick up the a**e that I probably need!

Well..... I did hear from him this morning - got a Good Morning text, and he asked if I was annoyed with him!! I replied (after an hour) back, and said
No, why did he think that... He thought I was annoyed because he didn't hear from me yesterday! Bloody men...

Exchanged a few lighthearted texts, none relating to when we are meeting again (if we do). So I guess I'll see if I hear from him tomorrow and if not, that's it as far as Im concerned.

MatryoshkaDoll Wed 11-Dec-13 11:21:29

He sounds a bit mind gamey to me. That's the second or third time he's asked you if you're annoyed with him. To me that says he knows he's not behaving as well as he should do but each time he asks if you're annoyed with him and you say no, he knows how much further he can push it.

I wouldn't take it as a good sign if someone said they didn't want 'anything heavy' after we'd had sex. It's like saying 'don't think that meant anything'.

LoisPuddingLane Wed 11-Dec-13 11:32:41

I slept with a guy - on the 3rd date, very well-behaved for me - and although he'd told me on the first date he was looking for a wife, after we'd had sex he told me it was just a casual thing.

I threw him out. At 3am.

bestsonever Wed 11-Dec-13 11:43:14

If he's expecting that you would be annoyed, this shows he's aware what he is doing, knows it's wrong, but is doing it anyway - powergame or he's annoyed by what he sees as your lack of contact also, so was reflecting that? Basically, you are pussyfooting around things and finding out little of each others intent.
If he does not want anything heavy, he is effectively saying he doesn't intend to be exclusive with you. I'm guessing you would not be fine to continue in that situation.
Another bad sign no one seems to have picked up on yet, is being way too keen and pursuing at the start. Quick to invest and quick to leave this type can be, they burn brightly but fade fast. Smell a rat if they talk about a future with you when youve just met.

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Dec-13 11:56:16

He's playing games. He WANTS you to be annoyed that he wasn't in contact, he's doing it on purpose. Why didn't he contact you, after he has done so every day previously? He's a knob. IMO. grin

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 11-Dec-13 11:59:16

"Exchanged a few lighthearted texts, none relating to when we are meeting again (if we do)."

Well that was pretty well-played if you can't yet bring yourself to stop giving a shite about what this game-player is up to.

If he's playing (and he is), you need to play too.

But soon you'll grow tired of this very silly game and leave him to it.

I KNOW it. Come on, you are way better than this guy.

I mean, you already had to tell him to back off BEFORE YOU EVEN MET HIM!


beingacow Wed 11-Dec-13 11:59:53

This thread has reminded me of something I used to ask myself a lot when I was single - why, in our society, is it considered so terrifying for a woman to express her sexual or romantic interest in a man? Why it is assumed that men will run away screaming if she dares do such a thing? Is misogyny really so deeply ingrained in our culture that, in the context of a new flirtation, if a man texts and and compliments and demonstrates his interest, that is considered normal; but if a woman dares, GASP, to send a text message to a man with whom she has shared a bed, suddenly she is this desperate creature from whom bunnies must be hidden.....

Why? Of course it is important for both parties to protect themselves from getting hurt. But something that I have had to teach myself is this: If I am in a situation where I'm second guessing my communication with someone, or if that person is making me feel uncertain or uncomfortable, I confront or move on. Life is too short, and what is the point in buying into the misogynistic bullshit that teaches us that a woman's passion is mad and bad, while a man's is healthy and fun.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 11-Dec-13 12:01:17

"Is misogyny really so deeply ingrained in our culture that, in the context of a new flirtation, if a man texts and and compliments and demonstrates his interest, that is considered normal; but if a woman dares, GASP, to send a text message to a man with whom she has shared a bed, suddenly she is this desperate creature from whom bunnies must be hidden....."


"If I am in a situation where I'm second guessing my communication with someone, or if that person is making me feel uncertain or uncomfortable, I confront or move on."



SoleSorceress Wed 11-Dec-13 12:06:16

Don't answer calls or texts. Dump the emotional vampire. He is using you to make himself feel wanted and better about his past bitter experiences with other women. He will come back for sex, hold the upper hand and fuck off and you'll feel worse. Take control, forget about him. Date lots of men at the same time.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 12:06:47

now he IS getting seriously annoying - I hate the fact that he wants to 'confirm that you are annoyed with me' (three times already that question, as someone said), he's checking whether you care about his absences, looking to see if you run after him <cringe>.

He still sounds extremely insecure to me, and trying to see if you could reassure him, by playing obvious games. If he was a real manipulator, he wouldn't check like a puppy every time, what's your reaction (and actually ask you). I don't know, I think he's not ready for relationship at all, you don't want to deal with insecurity on this sccale and he may turn out irrationally jealous if you get together.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 12:12:51

and OP, definitely don't reassure him that you 'not annoyed' or 'don't hate' him for sleeping on first date, by sleeping with him next time - get to KNOW him as a person as he is definetely not a straight-forward guy.

Maybe this is his strategy - do what he wants that madly apologises, and appears to agonise, so that you run after him. it may that he's ridiculously immature for his age, but maybe a player still, you need to get to know the real him. In fact ask him straight why is he so insecure, and imply that it's off-putting!

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 12:13:38

then, not that

I have been you. The guy drove me insane with the mind games and then started telling me I was the needy one.

Steer well clear.

SoleSorceress Wed 11-Dec-13 12:59:48

My rule is that if a guy says 'nothing too heavy', I dump,.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 11-Dec-13 13:03:55

Even though he has texted it seems too much angst at such an early state.

When I met DH it was easy from day one. No rules about contact. We talked every day and saw each other twice a week due to distance and DH studying. If we wanted to talk, we rang. If we wanted to see the other we called to see if they were free.

If any men are reading can they please tell me why a man would have sex with a woman and then not call again? Aren't they more likely to call as they are guaranteed a shag or are there a lot of men who lime to shag a woman once only?

KatnipEvergreen Wed 11-Dec-13 13:08:07

Just ring him, bugger the texts and all the pussy-footing around one another, and ask him if he wants to see you again. As you know, you need a bit of notice to plan meeting up with childcare to consider, and you have other things in your life.

Ifancyashandy Wed 11-Dec-13 13:11:35

You lot have inspired me to delete the texts and number of the guy I met.

You rock!

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 13:53:38

Toffee, I'm not a man, but I assume that sometimes the sexual compatibility isn't there (even though they thought they were attracted), same as many women stop seeing a man after first-time sex (I've done it). That's wgy the modern wisdom it to sleep ewith a potential BF quickly as the bedroom can ruin everything else if left till much later.
This is not the case with the OP bloke at all, I'm sure, he's not disappeared but he is ridiculously insecure or someone who can't live without game-playing.

Laurel1979 Wed 11-Dec-13 13:59:07

I honestly think its that he's immature rather than being cruel or deliberately playing games - that said its still driving me mad.... We are both 35 but he has never had a relationship longer than a year and has been single for a year.

Ephiny Wed 11-Dec-13 14:00:36

All this analysis and game-playing does sound very complicated. It shouldn't be this difficult, surely? Shouldn't this stage just be about fun and enjoying each other's company?

noseymcposey Wed 11-Dec-13 14:03:07

I think some of the replies are a bit OTT - just try to relax and chill a bit! You've only been out once and that was only a few days ago.

I agree he does sound quite insecure but not necessarily a reason to write him off.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 14:05:54

OP, yes I agree - immature and VERY insecure as he couldn't so far hold on to any relationship. He obv has a lot of issue with emotional attachment (either scared of it, OR gets attached really fast himself and then has to play games to test the partner). When I say game-playing, I mentoned before that it's too obvious to be malicious/designed to get some sex, it's a clumsy game playing to get you to reassure him, imo.

beaglesaresweet Wed 11-Dec-13 14:07:08

yes, agree not necessary the reason to write him off if insecure, but it depends how deep or difficult aer his issue, it can be a nightmare to deal with - so again, get to know him better before you sleep with him once more.

Laurel1979 Wed 11-Dec-13 15:10:37

It could get seriously annoying, tbh I had initially liked the thought of not having other previous serious relationships, I thought he would be less complicated and easier to be in a relationship with compared to my previous exes, but it would drive me mad if he was always this evasive/insecure. Am leaving it that I presume he'll text tomorrow to say if he can/can't go out on Sunday, if he doesn't get picked for the sports thing. If I don't hear from him I'll be too annoyed to want further contact. If he contacts by text that he can't go, I'll ring him and just tell him I don't want messing around. If he texts that he can go, well great I'll meet him on Sunday but will be doing things on my terms (in a nice way) and taking it slow before sleeping together again. Either way, tomorrow is my cut off point and I will not be messed around after that.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 11-Dec-13 16:43:11

He's 35??! He sounds like a teenager. I think you're in the middle of finding out why he's never had a relationship longer than a year.

It sounds deliberate to me, with his 'are you annoyed other me' passive aggressive shit.

Dump and move on. You met him online - was it on POF? Get yourself back on there and arrange a date with someone more mature and less teen angsty.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 11-Dec-13 16:44:14

'are you annoyed with me' not 'other me'

noseymcposey Wed 11-Dec-13 16:52:07

Hopefully you will go out on Sunday and that will give you a clearer idea of where you are smile

But I wouldn't judge him too much just yet - sounds like he's a bit anxious about the whole thing and might calm down a bit after another date! I don't think it's fair to judge him on his relationship history either! I had been single for most of my 20's when I met DP and he was divorced - a good thing neither of us drew conclusions from that or we wouldn't be where we are, very happily, today!

LEMisafucker Wed 11-Dec-13 16:59:12

Anyone who starts talking about "not wanting to get too heavy" after the first time you have sex has probably got frost bite

Do you really want to be with an immature 35 year old? There is probably a good reason he has no serious relationship experience. He is an immature knob.

Laurel1979 Wed 11-Dec-13 17:28:40

I think he is quite anxious, I got that impression during the meal from his body language and also he mentioned medication that he was prescribed last year when he went to see his GP for lightheadedness, which is only really used nowadays to treat anxiety. He also seemed insecure about his appearance, i had already seen photos but he said the night before we met that i might be disappointed when i saw him. There was no need as I really fancied him! Just hope he calms down a bit and stops panicking. Or if he's not interested that he just says so as I'd rather just know!

MillyChristmas Wed 11-Dec-13 18:25:24

Laurel Im glad you waiting till he texted you.....feels better that way doesn't it?? From what you have said I think I agree with your last post and it does seem that he is interested in you. I think you will hear from him tomorrow. Its early days but you fancy him so go ahead and see where this leads.

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Wed 11-Dec-13 19:44:31

beaglesaresweet - That mind-set was just never on my radar. Having sex was a big deal and I was more likely to wait as long as I did for other reasons and never worried about whether things would work in bed. Interesting how everyone views things differently. I was quite fussy about who I had sex with and saw it as a big deal. And dumping someone after one rubbish shag seems rather immature tbh. You can't be amazing from day one, sex like a lot of things can sometimes take practice and effort.

OP, it really doesn't come across as he is insecure to me. It sounds like he is controlling.

SweetSeraphim Wed 11-Dec-13 19:47:19

I agree with Toffee. I think he's controlling and manipulative. And I'm not really one of those MNers that say that about lots of men.

He likes the game - if you like it too, crack on. But I bet you don't, it'll get very wearing very quickly.

Joysmum Wed 11-Dec-13 19:53:53

Such a shame if you are both resorting to games. Doesn't say much for the future of this if you both game playing. Cut your losses unless you are both willing to talk to each other. People who are relationship material don't need to be played so if you don't play and instead go straight to the point and see what he says you're both going to be keeping each other in game playing mode and won't find out as soon as you could do.

arsenaltilidie Wed 11-Dec-13 19:55:29

If any men are reading can they please tell me why a man would have sex with a woman and then not call again? Aren't they more likely to call as they are guaranteed a shag or are there a lot of men who lime to shag a woman once only

Bearing in mind I'm now married this would have been over 7 years ago.

If sex appeared to be on the card soon, the the modus operandi was to go along with the dates, don't say anything stupid and soon enough we had sex.
Wouldn't normally call again because there was always another FWB, another date and tbh the thrill of the chase had gone.
The drama wasn't worth it and I guess you could say I was a coward for not ending it properly.
However I would normally call after a while try my luck if I was having 'issues' with FWB or others dates.
In hindsight, I wasn't looking/ready for a relationship, it was never about the women, it was all a game.

My regret and fear is I now have a daughter who will eventually be a young woman and I hope to God she never meets someone like I was.

Laurel asking if you're annoyed with him when he knows full well you are sounds a bit like game playing, someone who doesn't take you seriously.

SoleSorceress Wed 11-Dec-13 20:11:08

arsenal what was it that made you take the woman you eventually married seriously? Because maybe she made you wait for sex? Or she was right for you and the others were not or time to settle down wasn't the right time for you when you were single and dating?

nkf Wed 11-Dec-13 20:51:27

Why are you doing this to yourself? You don't know this man. You met him once. I think you have complicated matters by sleeping with him. Because now you have invested something in him. Plus all that jibber jabber about going away made you get your hopes up.

Ignore all those stories about "I shagged my DH two minutes after meeting him and here we are 20 years later..." It worked out for them. But, look at you. You're a nervous wreck - over a stranger. The fact you had sex with him doesn't make him less of a stranger.

If you like one night stands with strangers then fair enough. But if you are looking for something more serious and long term, then this is just ridiculous.

nkf Wed 11-Dec-13 20:54:50

As for he's a games player - what does that mean? He met a girl, he talked a load of (probably) bollocks, she slept with him. If he went round telling women he was only into casual sex, he'd never get laid. It's not particularly nice, but most of us don't live in a world where women live at home until they accept a proposal of marriage. So, a little common sense about the motives of complete strangers wouldn't go amiss.

SoleSorceress Wed 11-Dec-13 21:38:52

my definition of game playing is exactly your post nkf. telling lies to get what he wants thus creating a n expectation from the other person. Jeeeez

nkf Wed 11-Dec-13 21:48:01

I agree it's not nice, not nice at all. But, why should she assume this man is nice? She doesn't know him. He's some guy off a dating site. It's not like her cousin has known his brother for years. He's a stranger. These sort of posts are painful to read.

SoleSorceress Wed 11-Dec-13 21:59:12

Well he was nice to her, they shared a good time. I think multi dating is the answer for the online method and don't take it too seriously.

Laurel go out with someone else!

Seriously. Keep dating. This guy is a nobody!

SirRaymondClench Wed 11-Dec-13 22:47:31

nkf why should he pretend to be nice if he isn't?
Why can't people be honest about themselves? Life would be so much easier all round! Not every woman is at the stage of wanting to settle down and some just want casual sex, same as not every man is wanting casual sex...if people were honest from the start it would save so much time!

nkf why should he pretend to be nice if he isn't?

I know I'm not nkf, but people sometimes, in my experience, like the thrill of knowing that they've played someone. Sad but true.

arsenaltilidie Wed 11-Dec-13 23:08:19

Sole I treated her differently because I was looking for a relationship. I liked where my career was going, had just bought a house and wanted to be a young active dad.
What made her different is the usual BS, we get on very well, she can be a great friend plus we have a similar outlook of life.
Whatever time we had sex wouldn't have made a difference to how I felt/feel about her. We did have sex after quite a few dates, but I wouldn't say she made me wait ifkwim. More of we were happy to take it slow sounds so soapy.

beaglesaresweet Thu 12-Dec-13 00:00:12

Toffee, it's not the point that a first-time sex can be so-so or even 'rubbish', it's the chemistyr that you can't really be sure of until you sleep with someone, it's compatibility in bed (styles, even sizes for many some people, whether you aer on a par regarding amount of sex). You can even enjoy kissing someone, but not like being up close and personal bodily after all. I'm not saying by the way that I sleep with my dates straight away - I said it was moderm wisdom, and so many MNers subscribe to this too, I personally don't sleep on first dates, but I don't leave it very long either as going by my earlier experioences you can invest in someone emotionally and then realise they are not for you sexually. Look how many otherwise good marriages break up eventually due to lack of sex or big differences in libido, or fetishes etc, it's all on here!

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Thu 12-Dec-13 00:01:46

He's definitely a player, OP. If I were you, if he texts tomorrow to say he can do Sunday, tell him that you are very sorry but something has cropped up and you can't make it. This should be nothing to do with childcare, and everything to do with you having loads of friends. Then sit back and see if he makes plans to see you again.

I can appreciate all the feminist posts of 'this is 2013, not 1913', but tbh men haven't moved on since those times. Men are hunters and like the chase. I'm in a senior position in a professional job and like getting things done. I like knowing what is happening and when. But in my experience when you act like the social director of the relationship you miss out on knowing just how into (if at all) you they are. I married someone I took the lead with all the time with, and I never quite felt secure of his feelings even though he told me he loved me till the cows came home. It's only now we're divorced and he's so active with the kids and so amazing at helping me out whenever I need him that I truly realise that he really did/does love me. I never let him do the pursuing and show me how he felt about me, so even though I 'got' him in the end (marriage) I never felt secure and that made our marriage doomed.

I'm back dating and knowing what I know now about letting men chase you is what is helping to keep me sane. It's sad but true. When a man's interest seems to be waning, keeping a bit of distance and acting a bit disinterested is what pulls them back in. If they go because you pull back, well, they're really not into you and it wouldn't have worked anyway.

I wish it wasn't like this. It does my fucking head in.

By the way, I'm a feminist. XDH did most of the cooking, 50% of the childcare and 50% of the housework. Still does wink (Ok, not the housework, but still does jobs around the house, and he knows I'm dating!)

beaglesaresweet Thu 12-Dec-13 00:13:03

MyChild, that's why The Rules is such a successful book.
As to your ex, sounds like you want him back - how about it?

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 00:42:20

Thanks you guys again! Yes I'm starting to be able to look at the situation objectively, it doesn't look good. To be honest I would rather just talk to him on the phone rather than wait on more cryptic texts, but I don't want to look like Im the one chasing him either. He was working away today and hasn't been active on Facebook all day, which is unusual for him, but then when I look at how he was last week, he would have texted several times during the day. I don't know why he texted me this morning though - surely if he was just after sex, now he's got it, he wouldn't bother contacting me and asking if Im annoyed with him. So now I don't know if he's "freaking out" or not. But if he is and I ring him, it'll freak him out more. If he does text tomorrow, would I be reasonable to say that I'd rather talk by phone rather than text?

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Thu 12-Dec-13 00:50:27

beagles So many of my friends have asked me if I want to take him back. It would be so easy. He's the children's father and is perfect in the way that he treats us.

Unfortunately, he let me go and I have now met someone who I'm so physically attracted to and the sex is so amazing that I will always feel that I shouldn't go back. I know that this new person is only temporary, but it's opened my eyes up to the world of opportunities out there. The first two years after he left were horrendous. I did everything to get him back. From begging, to pretending that I was with someone else. It wasn't until I was truly over him and happy with my life as it was that he started expressing regret for leaving. Just more confirmation that men seem to be wired to want women who are NOT THAT INTO THEM. When I was pretending to have someone else, that didn't work, because men just seem to get vibes that you need them. I think wanting them is good but needing them is bad.

beaglesaresweet Thu 12-Dec-13 01:03:14

MyChild, so was it you who decided to divorce, or him? If he didn't try in two yrs, then yes, good idea to move on. If it's meant to be, it will be (i.e. if he'll now wait until you look at all your new options), but a good idea to enjoy a single life.

Op, not unreasonable - tell him you'd rather have a chat as you are tired of the texts. Just try to detach a bit until then! it really hasn't been long, and in the pre-texting days it was normal not to be in contact several times a day. As he's texted, you'll soon find out what else is he planning to do. If it's all about insecurity, the only thing that will freak him out is you being angry, otherwise he'll be making more moves.

What was it that you really liked about him before now btw? so far it's hard to see tbh.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 01:30:01

I know, I probably haven't portrayed him in a good light.... But he was so sweet, really funny and witty, and kind, and we just seemed to get on so well, any time we talked on the phone we were talking for an hour. We like the same

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 01:34:04

I know, I probably haven't portrayed him in a good light.... But he was so sweet, really funny and witty, and kind, and we just seemed to get on so well, any time we talked on the phone we were talking for an hour. We like the same things, going to similar places on holiday, he has a dog, he likes Disneyland and spending time with his nieces and nephews, he seems kind with his parents, and on FB from looking at his posts, and those from his friends, he genuinely looks like the good guy who does all the driving/lifts home on nights out etc. He does voluntary work and is always raising money for charity etc. I know all these things don't sound much but when I met him I just had a feeling that he was a good guy....

beaglesaresweet Thu 12-Dec-13 01:35:44

well, just wait and see then, he could just be unusual and insecure but a good person deep down, but you really need to detach a bit and be more 'nice but neutral' until he deals with his issues.

JeanSeberg Thu 12-Dec-13 06:01:32

God is this tale still rolling on, you're starting to sound unhinged... You're even noting how much he's on FB now... Really?

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 06:48:24

You know what Jean, I probably am..... I use FB chat to keep in touch with one of my friends and I can't help but see there's often a green dot beside his name. But your right, this bloody saga is rolling on and I couldn't feel any worse about myself than I do now. Either I've been used for sex or else I've ruined something by shagging on a first date. But either way I am not contacting him again as Im too bloody pissed off now, not helped by just coming to the end of what feels like the world's busiest ever night shift. Think I'll go home at 8 and sleep/turn phone off for a change.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 06:49:16

Sorry "you're" not "your"

antimatter Thu 12-Dec-13 06:57:43

green dot can mean he is logged in to FB, not that he is actually using it at that very moment

nkf Thu 12-Dec-13 07:00:32

I think you are way too invested in a stranger. You've built him up into something in your mind and you are relating to that something. I don't know whether he is nice or not but then neither do you. Not really. He shouldn't be that important to you. Don't sit back and wait. Go out and have a good weekend. Aren't there loads of men on dating sites?

nkf Thu 12-Dec-13 07:01:14

And stay off Facebook. Green dots indeed. Stop it.

leopardprintsock Thu 12-Dec-13 07:34:18

OP, i feel a bit sorry for you. Theres no doubt here that you have been played, and dont feel too bad for that, noone of us are infallible

Whatever it is, you havent ruined anything by shagging him, its about him and what his intentions were, which despite what he said, despie what his FB shows, despite liking disneyland, you have no idea of. This man was a stranger, with motives you didnt know and had no way of knowing.

If you havent dated for a while, its not your fault, dating has changed an awful lot, and kudos to you for getting out there. Before you go on another date though, it might be worth thinking about what you want, what you are looking for, and what behaviour you can and cant stand.
If you are happy to have casual sex, or jump into bed quickly, you have to be happy with the fact that you dont know if you will see or hear from them again.
So - as long as you are happy with your choices, then great. But dont but your happyness in others, that way madness lies.

Delete this bloke off fb, dont even tell him. Hes clearly not into you at all. Hold on to a bit of dignity, walk away, have a nice xmas with your family and a bit of a think and then get out there again in the new year.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 07:39:04

Thanks Leopard. Yes I will delete him on FB as I know it would drive me to distraction otherwise! I'll certainly be more cautious next time round, and tbh there's no way I'd jump into bed so quickly again as I couldn't bear feeling like this again.

leopardprintsock Thu 12-Dec-13 07:41:15

sorry - i meant i felt sorry for you, in the sense of, you are clearly a nice person, just terribly naieve when it comes to this kind of thing.
Lots of people are, dating had moved on so so so much, the rules have changed.
You expect people to be honest, like you are, but as much as it pains me to say, you need to be a bit more cynical and dont trust people until they have proven themselves trustworthy. dont give more of yourself than you can afford to lose.

steep learning curve, have been there myself, many times.

LivingWellNow Thu 12-Dec-13 07:46:42

Laurel. Your posts have gone from wanting some advice about shagging some bloke on the first night to something quite different.

Whilst he may have some interest in shagging seeing you again he's not exactly falling over himself to do that, is he? So what you must decide is whether HE'S made a mistake through lazy, goady, noncommittal communication since you shagged him.

You must decide if he's treated you in a less than respectful, caring manner. You must decide if you'll be making a second mistake by 'dumping' a sweet, kind, insecure, mixed-up and misunderstood bloke. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks because you, and no-one else, will live with the consequences of your actions whatever they are.

If my DM were still here and she read your posts I know exactly what she'd say and she was no feminist by any stretch of the imagination. She'd say "Always carry a pair of scissors with you to cut the thread a man has you hanging by".

Good luck Laurel.

paperlantern Thu 12-Dec-13 07:54:16

what? I mean seriously how did we get from "that sounds good but I'm trying to get out of something should be able to tell you on Thursday" to ltb?

No sleeping together on the first date isn't a big deal. you both freaked and said you didn't want a heavy duty relationship (in fact didn't you say it first) so don't judge things on that

Some men (and women) don't text all the time, they might every now and then send a flurry but that's it. It's not a sign he doesn't like you

He might genuinely know until Thursday what he's doing, there is any number of reasons why.

none of these are a big deal.

what would be a big deal if he didn't contact you today when he said. it wouldn't be a big deal if he said he couldn't come. it would be a big deal if he didn't arrange a new date.

You're in the early stages of the relationship. he had a life before you that isn't going to stop and nor should it. That doesn't mean hes not interested in you or is playing you

JeanSeberg Thu 12-Dec-13 08:06:36

Always carry a pair of scissors with you to cut the thread a man has you hanging by

Wise words from you mum, Living.

leopardprintsock Thu 12-Dec-13 08:09:02

i really like those words. ill be passing them on to my own dd.

paperlantern Thu 12-Dec-13 08:09:06

I will add I also leave Facebook on in the background. sometimes I might be doing other things or not even be on the computer at all. sometimes I'm talking to friends and want to focus on the one conversation.

personally I'd take don't want it heavy to let's not talk too much about future plans (marriage kids moving in etc) just want to go out and have fun (that may include sex).

if you want chatty texts have you texted him? Nothing heavy just "this funny thing happened to me today" or take a photo of something to do with your first date "saw this thought of you" kind of thing.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 08:12:35

Begal.....Child ..are you both " Rules* girls*??smile

I suggest you find some body else to go to the Christmas market with. Too old for this type of gameplay when no longer a teen. Sorry. Just forget about him. This is how all your weeks will be like if you continue to try dating this bloke.

paperlantern Thu 12-Dec-13 08:27:41

imagine the reverse AIBU:

"had this super date and the most amazing sex after. we texted back and forth a bit.

I freaked out a bit and texted that I didn't want anything to heavy she agreed. she suggested another date which I play football on. team lists are up Thursday and I should know whether someone else can take my place then.

Since then she has gone totally silent on me. AIBU to think if she's not prepared to wait a few days, she's not that interested in me and a bit of a drama lama?"

grin ok have taken a few liberties but think you may be over thinking this!

LivingWellNow Thu 12-Dec-13 08:31:04

paper interesting analogy as I was thinking of another:

If you feel like you're playing in a ball game but you don't know what the rules are - it's because YOU'RE THE BALL. grin.

bumbleymummy Thu 12-Dec-13 08:43:44

I think you're over thinking this. He texted you in the morning. It sounds like he was waiting on your text too and he may very well get in touch today to arrange something else. I think a lot of people are reading too much into very little information. It's early stages so both of you might be feeling the whole ' don't want to crowd the other' thing. Try to distract yourself and just see what happens.

paperlantern Thu 12-Dec-13 08:43:48

fair enough. But I've never been overly interested in playing games. wink

fwiw the ex that treat me like shit was all over like a rash texts all tge time and big gestures, purposefully it prevented me having a life.

But so far the guy doesn't seem to have done anything wrong. he hasn't played games he just hasn't messaged alltge time.

ifhe doesn't message today when he says then it's the time for the scissors

Selks Thu 12-Dec-13 08:48:43

Wow so much drama and angst! Why not just see how the next date works out and take it from there?

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 08:51:16

I like that analogy Livingwellnow!

I could really bloody kick myself now though - stupidly I was on FB during the night and saw he was active (I wasn't stalking his profile, just saw he was posting stuff that came up on my news feed). I sent a jokey v lighthearted message, looks like he's read it this morning, but no answer. Im aware I probably sound like a loon now, will see if he contacts today and if not then I'll know for sure.

Anyoneforacheckup Thu 12-Dec-13 09:00:12

Just a different viewpoint. I am very private person, friendly but don't give too much away unless I tryst someone.
If I had sex on first date, I would regret it anf feel over exposed and might withdraw afterwards.
Was alcohol involved?

Gutless Thu 12-Dec-13 09:04:22

Why did you send a message? Why? You said you were going to delete him and move on. Now you do the complete opposite. You clearly cannot handle these kind of scenarios so you have to get better at protecting your feelings.

DuchessFanny Thu 12-Dec-13 09:27:59

I hope your mind is put at rest one way or another today OP.
Although i'd also second going with someone else on Sunday regardless of whether he's free or not. Live your life the way you would if he wasn't in it, and if he is and it's all great, then it's just a bonus. If he isn't you are carrying on as normal.

JeanSeberg Thu 12-Dec-13 09:35:09

If he contacts you today and you accept a date for Sunday, the message that gives him is that you're happy to be messed around and last on his list of priorities. That he can contact you last minute when other things fall through and you'll always be available.

Therefore, you need to turn him down politely and leave it to him to re-organise if he can be bothered.

MummyBeerestCupOfCheerest Thu 12-Dec-13 10:40:24

Yeesh dating is complicated, eh?

I don't have much to offer by way of advice; never done online dating or sex on the first date. I don't think either of those things are bad, though. Doesn't sound like either of those things are the problem here either.

But, having been confused by dates in the past, I can tell you for sure that it's only going to be more complicated waiting for answers to something you've questioned from the start.

Maybe take a break from it during the holidays and start fresh in the new year?

noseymcposey Thu 12-Dec-13 10:46:35

FFS you don't need to delete him from facebook or kick him to the curb he hasn't actually done anything wrong has he!

I'll say it again I think you just need to RELAX! Things can get a bit weird if you have sex early on but lets just see what he says about going out on Sunday. And no, you really shouldn't play the game of pretending you aren't available! If you can arrange Sunday you can just go and have a lovely time and hopefully get over the fact you both seem to have been a bit weirded out by getting too heavy too soon.

I think posters that are telling you to get rid of him are being a bit reckless in their advice. You say OP doesn't know him well the people 'advising' that she has nothing more to do with him know him even less. It's easy to sit there and say 'yeah he's a write off' but actually you really don't know that. So far his biggest crime has been not contacting OP enough. He might well turn out to be an arsehole but it's OTT to make that decision now.

kevinsmum Thu 12-Dec-13 10:47:47

Paperlantern's right - or nearly there. Try to do the impossible, imagine what it would be like in his position, finding himself being de-friended from someone he's interested in and getting a cold-shoulder for a date he was looking forward to, You can hear him saying 'wtf went wrong there?'

You are in danger of losing a chance of a relationship NOT because you slept with him on the first date, but because you're here on mumsnet discussing it to the nth degree. Look at these responses you're taking on board - many of the negative ones come from people who give themselves bitchy names. these are people who don't know you, don't know him, and are bringing their own bitter agenda to the table and wanting you to fail at the chance of happiness.

There is only one way to deal with this - speak to him on the phone. Doesn't have to be heavy, just a friendly chat asking whether the potential date is on. If he's keen you'll hear it in his voice. I'm guessing he is - but just as wary as you are (he almost certainly picked up on your concern about the first-date sex, and didn't want you to think he's that kind of man either - he was trying to give you the response he thought you wanted). With men, the mostly likely explanation is usually the simplest. They aren't complicated, they don't need this much analysing. If they are bastards, they are bastards, but if you felt he was sweet and sensitive, a bit insecure about himself, good enough in bed, he probably still is all of those things. And if that's his character, sweet morning texts, a promise to be less heavy until he knows you're ready for more - those are exactly the way he would want to START a relationship , not finish it like all of these Moaning Minnies are trying to persuade you. Listen to his voice, listen to your inner voice when you're with him , not these silly people who are not involved, will not lose what you could, and actually take a small pleasure in helping to make someone else's life a little more unhappy like their own.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 11:11:52

Thanks Kevinsmum. I would really actually like to talk to him but I think if I ring it'll look stalker ish. On Monday when he sent the "heavy" text I replied "are you free to talk" and he said he wasn't (he works on a Monday night). No contact on Tues then weird "are you annoyed with me texts" on wed morning. I texted him last night on FB, he didn't reply. We are almost past the deadline when he was meant to let me know if he can make it on Sun and I haven't heard from him. So I think if I ring my dignity would seriously be out the window

JeanSeberg Thu 12-Dec-13 11:17:32

Love the sweeping generalisations you've made there kevinsmum.

ImpOfDarkness Thu 12-Dec-13 11:21:14

Can anyone imagine a man getting 250 replies from blokes to a thread like this?

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 11:25:39

No, I can't, but this is why I love mumsnet...

kevinsmum Thu 12-Dec-13 11:39:30

No dear, it won't look stalker-ish. The problem with texts and facebook messages is they are (if you're prone to doing it) open to interpretation. They don't have the nuances, flow and immediate give-and-take of speech. I'll say it again - keep it simple because he's a man. He gets confused by subtlety of emotion. Your texts have already done some damage by confusing him - 'are you annoyed with me?' means exactly that. He can't think at all why you would be, (he doesn't know what silly advice you've been given here) he just thinks he's been sending you the odd 'good morning xx' because he likes you but thought you said you didn't want it to be too heavy, and now you're suddenly acting strangely cool.

So. Pick up the phone. Call him now and ask if he's managed to get free for another date. Expect him to sound a little wary (he might even ask if you really want to - because he actually doesn't know), but be encouraging (just to undo the discouragement you've unwittingly given through text)even if he says he isn't free. Suggest another day, and by now you'll be able to hear in his voice whether he's lost interest or not.

Risk the loss of a little dignity - you want to talk to him, you want to see him again, you would quite like it to work. What's the problem with a couple of minutes real conversation to find out? Don't listen to the advice that you lose by making a little of the running. When a woman plays the game of moving away hoping the man will prove his interest by following, most men, particularly the insecure ("you might be disappointed when you see me" -remember) just see another woman who wasn't interested in them.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 12:07:55

I think I'm liking your advice Kevinsmum..... I'm going out with some of my friends later but if I get home at a decent time I might give a casual ring or even better leave it till tomorrow. I do think he will be in touch soon, just a feeling

SweetSeraphim Thu 12-Dec-13 12:09:29

Really kevinsmum?? Really?? hmm

SweetSeraphim Thu 12-Dec-13 12:11:01

< keep it simple because he's a man.> FFS.

He said he'd let you know today. If he's interested in seeing you again, you'll know by the end of today.

But this is how I see it :
You don't have a next firm date with him.
He said he doesn't want anything 'heavy'.
His contact has dropped off considerably.
You asked if he was free to talk. He said no. If he was keen he'd have said 'not right now but what about later/tomorrow?'. Apparently he didn't.
You messaged him and he hasn't replied.
To me none of this is the behaviour of a man who is keen. Obviously, I don't know him, but in my dating days, when a man was keen I knew it. It wasn't complicated and there wasn't any angst.
I wouldn't call him.
And if he doesn't call today, I'd think very carefully about seeing him again if he contacts you next week or whenever, unless you're happy with a FWB situation.

kevinsmum Thu 12-Dec-13 12:35:22

OK SweetSeraphim - 'keep it simple because he's a human being, not a character in a Mills and Boon, or on Holby City' But as Impofdarkness says - you just wouldn't get 250 replies from men analysing the situation like this. Go into any pub, any evening and you'll see groups of women analysing emotional, domestic, school, whatever situations, trying to work out what everything 'means'. Do you see men doing that to such a degree? Have they felt the need for an equivalent forum to this? Yeah, of course it's a sweeping generalisation but they do seem to deal in simple facts and straightforward interpretations.

Anyway Laurel - you came here looking for advice. Mine still is, have a go at finding out from whether you two have a chance of anything, and don't put too much faith in the ladies here who tell you he's obviously a player when your initial reaction to him was so different.

1charlie1 Thu 12-Dec-13 12:38:12

OP, don't call him, please don't! Forget him, and move on. I was in a relationship with a man a couple of months before I met my now DH, who never called when he said he would, changed plans at the last minute etc. I'm pleased to say, I didn't put up with it for long, and ended it by text. But I still regret the few times I 'chased' him for an answer when he didn't call/ come over when he said he was going to. When I met DH a short time later, he was just so clearly into me. The whole thing was easy, easy, easy! He was so reliable, texted me every morning to say hi (he still does when he get to work! None of this 'two weeks and it's over, no more sweet morning texts' stuff that you're putting up with), emailed me, made plans and stuck to them. Once, very early on he organised a date and had to cancel - he was completely mortified and sent me a list of alternatives. It was such a contrast to my previous dating experience. But I'm actually so grateful to have had that frustrating, confusing experience - it really made me appreciate what a lovely man DH is.
There's no way he's really into you, I'm sorry. But not that sorry, because you're now free to find a great bloke who wants to be with you as much as you want to be with him.

1charlie1 Thu 12-Dec-13 12:46:10

Oh, and kevinsmum, my initial response upon meeting the inconsistent, immature bloke I dated before DH was also very positive - he seemed sweet, highly intelligent and very interesting. I wouldn't have gone on a date with him otherwise. As things progressed, he revealed himself to be seriously tight with money, increasingly selfish in bed and quick to cancel plans if something better came along. Our first instincts can be incorrect, which is why not every first date turns into a LTR!

sparklysilversequins Thu 12-Dec-13 12:46:17

OP if you think kevinsmum gave good advice and you are going to follow then all I can say is you are a hopeless case and deserve to be taken for a complete fool.

He shagged you, he went off you afterwards. Not because of anything you did but because he's a shallow twat.

Now he doesn't want to be THAT guy who disappears after a shag because he doesn't like that picture if himself. However he is disappearing after a shag, he's just taking his time about doing it.

kevinsmum you have no business giving that kind of dangerously sexist advice out on MN, unless as I suspect hope fervently it's tongue in cheek and you are taking the piss out of the OP.

Lifeisaboxofchocs Thu 12-Dec-13 12:47:36

I am with kevinsmum. We can deny it all we like, but there are major differences with how men and women approach relationships.

Keep it simple, avoid game playing, avoid nonsense like 'treat him keen, keep him mean'.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Thu 12-Dec-13 12:49:13

Agree with nerdy hard wick. If you want fwb contact him. If not steer clear.

Ps he sounds like an angsty prat.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Thu 12-Dec-13 12:49:52

Herdy Not nerdy!

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Dec-13 12:54:09

Angsty prat is a lovely expression.

grin Euphemism

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 13:08:44

Only just found this thread OP.

I don't think it looks good TBH. And I don't think it's got anything to do with you shagging him on the first date. I'm not a FB expert but when you message someone who's 'active' at the time, don't they see the message straight away? So basically he knew you were sitting there messaging him and he ignored you.

Nice treatment from somebody you've recently swapped bodily fluids with sad

Honestly - if you were my RL friend I would tell you to forget him and move on; he is playing games. Actually, even if I'm wrong and he's not, forget him anyway. If he likes you enough, he will move hell and high water to make you remember him again. If he can't be bothered to do that, does he really deserve you?

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 13:12:58

Kevinsmum with all due respect you are having a laugh 'dear'.

OP Don't ring him. Well, do if you like, and then if he does agree to another date you can feel really secure in the knowledge that you're meeting up with him shagging him again because you hassled him into it.

And btw Kevinsmum I am very happily married to somebody who could be bothered to phone me when he said he would and was 100% straight with me from the off. Despite the fact that we shagged on the first date (actually before the first date so beat that smile).

kevinsmum Thu 12-Dec-13 13:19:44

Hmm - here they come. All the angry 'all men are bastards, because I had a bad experience with one' brigade. Wtf? I have 'no business' to give such advice - suggesting we treat a man as a human? How on earth is that sexist? Because I suggest Laurel should actually have a real-life conversation to enable her to work out for herself whether he's interested, instead of listening to the screeching sirens? How can someone Laurel herself describes in such glowing terms be condemned as an 'angsty prat'? Face it - the sexism lies with ladies who don't listen to what the OP actually said about him, but go to the default position of he's a man - he's bad.

Are we women really going to reject every shy man who needs a little encouragement, because he doesn't understand the games we play? And really Sparklysilversequins - listen to yourself. If she doesn't make the call doesn't she become the one who looks like she's 'disappearing after a shag'?

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Dec-13 13:23:44

I don't think people are saying "all men are bastards". It's just if someone is keen, you don't have to ask a load of people on the internet if the man is keen. Because he will let you know. Equally he will let you know if he's not - huge drop in text messages, not committing fully to a next date, not being available to talk, etc.

I could be wrong, but his behaviour is not screaming "keen".

Also, I really don't like the expression "nothing heavy". Really hate it in fact. It's shorthand for "don't expect to become my girlfriend, but I wouldn't mind partaking of your wares from time to time".

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 13:26:33

Kevinsmum seriously - this man has said he will contact OP to let her know if he will see her at the weekend as previous talked about. What is wrong with her now waiting to see if he does what was agreed in the first place?

This man has already showed signs of being a little bit of a game player, possibly. He was really keen beforehand, then as soon as they had had sex he started talking about 'not wanting anything heavy'. He was texting her every day to say good morning and then as soon as they had DTD he stopped contacting her. When the OP sent him a message on FB he ignored it. How does that indicate he is a 'shy man who needs a little encouragement'?

I can only speak for myself but I don't think all men are bastards and have not personally had a bad experience with one. I just think the world is a big place, with millions of men in it, and that women shouldn't have to wait around in angst for days hoping one of those million of men will 'please please' choose them. That is what I would say to my RL friends and that is what I will say to my DD in the future.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 13:34:34

A lot of posters have said 'you shouldn't contact him', because they new when their now husbands were 'keen'. They would have done anything to contact them. I don't see this as something that should be the total burden of the man. If you want to chase or have a conversation to demystify the whole situation, then why not?
If these posters 'keen' husbands had played the 'no chase' card, then imagine posters would be looking at very different children, maybe no children, different in laws, different lives, etc.

Do what you want OP, good luck!

differentnameforthis Thu 12-Dec-13 13:34:36

It's just if someone is keen, you don't have to ask a load of people on the internet if the man is keen

How did we ever cope before the dawn of the internet forum?

I have to say, I love how people are telling the op that he is playing games, but also advising her to play games.

OP, you have to stop thrashing it out on the internet. If you want to ring him, ring him. If you don't, don't. It is your relationship & you should conduct it how you feel. You don't have to justify it. And don't ever say sorry to a bunch of strangers on the internet for calling him. At worst, you over invest, at best he knows exactly how you feel about him. I don't see what is wrong in that!

When I first met my dh I was 15 he was a few yrs older. We didn't have mobile phones, so relied on the good old land line to communicate. We didn't talk nor see each other every day, I didn't wake up to 'good morning' texts. I got on with my life & he got on with his & every few days we would phone one another & arrange to meet up. Or I sent a message with my sisters boyfriend that I would be at X if he wanted to drop in (they lived in the same street).

I didn't need to see him/talk to him everyday to know that he was thinking of me & me him! In fact it made them times we got together more special because we had stuff to catch up on. Then he went home for 6 weeks & we didn't talk ONCE! He sent postcards & I sent a letter or 2, and hey...we survived.

The instant fix, the instant gratification of today makes relationships seemed so hurried, so suffocating. It can't be good for the relationship.

differentnameforthis Thu 12-Dec-13 13:35:28

this man has said he will contact OP to let her know if he will see her at the weekend as previous talked about

Yes, on Thursday, there is still lots of Thursday left!

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 14:03:03

Crunchy that is the point surely. We were chased therefore we were left with no doubt in our mind that our men wanted us.

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 14:13:02

I don't see this as something that should be the total burden of the man.

Nobody has said it should be. Just that OP has already done her bit of follow up after their date - she's texted him and messaged him on FB. He has said he will let her know today if he can see her at the weekend. But some seem to think she should phone him to what - see if he's found out if he can let her know today yet? confused

It's not about playing games, it's about not letting a man you've only just met take over your thoughts and your whole life and happiness, because you continue to have a life of your own.

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 14:13:46

And what Milly says.

In lots of ways I'm v glad that the last time I was single was before everybody had mobile phones <old fart>

Wishihadabs Thu 12-Dec-13 14:22:15

I love this stuff. FWIW DH and I dtd very early on, then he gave me all this nonsense about space and time (as in I need some space, give me some time, not Steven Hawkins) So I did, a week later he was as keen as mustard.

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Dec-13 14:31:23

I think we should henceforth refer to anyone who needs space and time as "doing a Stephen Hawking".

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 14:33:18

I think we should henceforth refer to anyone who needs space and time as "doing a Stephen Hawking"

I love that grin

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 14:44:56

Ha ha.....I really love that . Doing a * Stephen Hawking* grin grin grin

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 14:45:50

Wish brilliant.!!!

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 15:05:59

It maybe a point but if you reverse it and the OP doesn't chase and call the guy might think she isn't keen.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 15:15:26

Doing a Stephen Hawking, that's brilliant!

I think I've shown him Im sufficiently keen eg asking about Christmas market on Sunday and also messaging last night.... The more I think about it, it's his loss really (but I still really want him to contact me aargh!)

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 15:28:25

Crunch Did you chase your DH?

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 15:38:08

I chased someone else's, I'm not married. I'm not a total believer in long term monogamy. I think shorter relationships are more natural

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 15:41:33

Crunch do you mean your a disbeliever in long term monogamy? Why, if you don't mind me asking.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 15:54:43

I think most relationships have a shelf life. I don't think marrying 25-35 years old, with a potential 50-60 year relationship is natural. You see this with most relationships not making this distance. Most that will have that longevity are normally marriages. People staying together purely to honour the marriage, becoming distant, unhappy, resentful, or regretting sacrifices, maybe even just putting up with it.
Don't get me wrong, there will be some relationships that are for life and work and all are involved are happy. However, these are a minority and therefore appear more unnatural. Despite this marriage and 'life partners' are pushed forward as the ideal or the norm.

I suppose I do believe in monogamy but maybe 5 x 10 year relationships rather than the 50 year relationship, for example.

NutellaNutter Thu 12-Dec-13 15:55:07

Oh God Laurel yes definitely don't contact him. And read The Rules.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 15:59:35

What about you, Milly? Are you married? Is it your 1st?

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:00:17

It does seem to be the state of relationships today doesn't it but when I have witnessed the way a lot of people treat each other in relationships I'm not surprised that some people feel resentful and unhappy. Some people treat their friends better than they do their OH. Resentment builds up and eventually distroys the feeling of being in love or loving the other person.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:04:05

Yes, I'm married and its my first.........

sparklysilversequins Thu 12-Dec-13 16:09:07

I could not agree more crunchy.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:09:44

But I think that 'state', is natural. As religion has moved out of society and people can think rationally. Relationships are reaching what they should be. A natural shelf life. You see this in Ireland when divorce was made legal in 1996. They have a divorce rate similar to the western world.
We just need to stop society pushing the notion of a 'partner for life' and you must get married. It's not an idea that coincides with the stats or what we see around us.
Pushing marriage, cause people to put down too bigger roots. Too tied to a place, a mindset, a family. I think this can sometimes get in the way of living and experiencing life. It steers you towards an existence in a narrow way.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:13:44

I would have personally to disagree even though I see your point. People should be taught about relationships and how to create good ones. It is like anything in life, it takes effort and time to keep a relationship strong and both parties happy and fulfilled within.

Ephiny Thu 12-Dec-13 16:13:54

Yes I'm not sure about lifelong monogamy either. If it was such a natural state, surely there wouldn't be so many divorces and affairs?

I don't know if the answer is accepting that relationships have a shelf life, or accepting that more openness and flexibility within a relationship/marriage is necessary if it's to last.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:16:24

Relationships, Marriages can be long and happy and a journey that has many twists and turns but they can and do get richer and more precious as each year passes.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:18:15

Ephiny I think divorces and affairs happen because people stop putting effort into the relationship.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:19:40

Milly, of course you disagree, you are married. Maybe you will defy the statistics. I thinks it's more to do with the marriage till death mentality/expectation. This completely narrows your world. Why wouldn't it, it's your world now till you die. But then the natural life span of a relationship kicks in. It's harder to go back to a wider world that you miss out on.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:22:26

I'm not sure marriages get richer with every year that passes, Milly. I pressure the final year before divorce is the poorest.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:22:52


MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:31:06

Obviously if your divorcing then the years are not enriching hence my comment that we are not sufficiently prepared when we are young or indeed at any stage to understand the work that relationships take to prevent that breakdown occurring .

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:39:32

True, there are periods of time where relationships aren't too much work. Or hard work. This maybe for a few months or many years. This is what I mean by a shelf life. Once they become hard work they are no longer natural and they become forced.
I realise others may see hard work as part of a relationship but I think this is just learnt from a religious society and it's traditions that we are conditioned to believe are the norm.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:49:42

I'm not religious at all. I chose this Man and I want him to have a happy fulfilling life with me and we both cherish our time together. The years that have passed have all been part of who we are today. We all go through difficult times but work to get through it together as a team. Of course this is only how I view relationships from my own experience and we all have different experiences and different views. I know that I still fancy the pants of my DH and he me, even after all these years. We keep our relationship special by making sure we go on date nights and dress nicely and compliment each other and support each other.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:51:48

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.grin

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:56:20

Yes, you don't have to convince me. I believe you are sure of that.
That's all it is 'a part of you', some people narrow their world so much that it is them. It's just a version of you, not a better one or a worse one. Just a version.

Anyway, hope you have a long and fruitful marriage. Good luck Milly

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:58:06

Yes derail in full flow. Luckily I think the OP gave a definitive, 'it's his loss'

leopardprintsock Thu 12-Dec-13 16:59:16

OP - have you heard from him at all yet?

I do think you have had some good advice here, i know you will be looking at things to make it seem like its all going to turn out rosy. But try to look at it logically.
I didnt realise you had messaged him and he hadnt replied and had asked to call him and he said he was busy. I dont think he could be more clearer if he tried.

with regard to marriages, its worth noting that both people have to cherish and put work in to it.... if its onesided, its not going to work. Its not great to make women feel bad, or like their marriages failed as they just didnt work at it hard enough.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 16:59:21

I'm sure the thread will be back on track if the guy calls or maybe for the fallout if he doesnt

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 16:59:56

Not trying to convince you of anything just that I don't personally agree with your version of relationships mostly having shelf lives, that's all. Like I said our experiences govern our views on marriages don't they? I've been with my DH for 29 years and have learnt a lot. smile

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 17:01:57

Leopard I did day BOTH people in a relationship need to learn to work on it not just one.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 17:09:06

Milly, I wasn't using my personal relationship experiences to govern my views. I was trying to look at society/statistics/other people's views to analyse relationships. This analysis has maybe gone on to influence my actions or perceptions. Not the other way round.

For example, I can see society is sexist. Personally, I don't know any sexists in RL. This does not lead me to believe that society is not sexist

leopardprintsock Thu 12-Dec-13 17:13:27

Crunchy, i do tend to agree with you.

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 17:14:47

You must be using your own personal relationship experience to base your views in some part. You said that you chase other women's husbands. If you are being serious with that comment then they way you view relationships is a very unhealthy one I would say. There are many women on here who's relationships have had problems with infidelity.

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 17:16:57

Milly that was a joke, made up

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 17:17:39


crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 17:21:13

Your question came out of the blue. I did say 'no' after it, but realise it can read differently. Just a joke. Why does it matter?

Warbride Thu 12-Dec-13 17:28:26


MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 17:28:31

Sorry my question appeared out of the blue. You seemed to imply that you felt that chasing a man is a good thing from your point a view so my question was relating to that. That's all. smile

crunchypower Thu 12-Dec-13 17:32:02

It's not a bad thing to chase, not a good thing. I was pointing out it seems more acceptable/expected for the man to do the chasing. Maybe we are more developed than these archaic traditions

MillyChristmas Thu 12-Dec-13 17:34:11


LivingWellNow Thu 12-Dec-13 18:09:18

What time is dump o'clock Laurel?

whyme32 Thu 12-Dec-13 18:20:24

Laurel, while you have had some great advice in here I think people are losing grasp of rational thought! Just call him and ask him straight - is he going to the Christmas Market on Saturday or not???! Why wait for him to text and go crazy out of your mind for the passed four days? If he says no, so what, move on! The rules of waiting so many days before you text/wait for him to contact you are just games. Fuck that - be an adult and just SPEAK to HIM.

IfNotNowThenWhen Thu 12-Dec-13 18:22:59

You can't "ruin things" with sex!
If a man wants to see you he will crawl over broken glass just to wank in your shadow, whether you have on the right shoes, haven't put make up on, used to go out with his boss or have swung from the light fittings all night long.
Doesn't matter.
If a man likes you, he will make sure he sees you.
At least you got a shag out of it. Now move on.
Oh, and I have one rule, and that is NO TEXTS!
If you want to communicate with me-call me. Certain men love the casualness and ease of texts, and the way a message can be very ambiguous. No, no and no!

This thread is fascinating, am watching with interest.
I've been separated for 18 months and am tentatively dipping my toe into online dating. This has been essential reading for me - so many viewpoints, and I can understand most of them.
It's all so bloody complicated these days!

SweetSeraphim Thu 12-Dec-13 19:40:11
BitOutOfPractice Thu 12-Dec-13 19:44:49

Can I go against the grain here?

And bear in mind that I am a recent graduate of the online dating scene

And fuck me it makes you jaded I can tell you!

I think it sounds like he is panicking that he's freaked YOU out - not the other way round.

Call him. Ask him. Talk directly and honestly.

And good luck

Writerwannabe83 Thu 12-Dec-13 19:50:46

I agree with you bitoutofpractice - I can imagine him sitting at home panicking that he has said or done the wrong thing and wondering whether she's till wants to see him on Sunday or not. Neither of you know what the other is thinking and so are waiting for the other to 'make the first move' and 'do the chasing' - which means stale mate!!

Just drop the games and 'rules' - ask him outright if he is able to make it on Sunday and just take it from there.

OP is the one who suggested their next date, at the Christmas Market, not him. Isn't that sending a clear message to him that she's interested ?
Let's say he really did have to get plans sorted out today. If that was the case, that is ok. But notice he didn't offer an alternative date at that time?
Surely OP suggesting the date, and messaging him on FB it should be clear to him that she's keen. But he didn't reply.
What more encouragement could he need?

I tend to think he'll be in touch again at some point but he seems a bit wishy washy to me and I'm not convinced that can be attributed to him not being sure if she's interested or not.
That said, who knows? Twenty years from now they could be together and laughing about how it nearly never happened because they each thought the other wasn't interested. smile

ALittleStranger Thu 12-Dec-13 20:18:32

The OP has made it clear she's interested. I'm not a Rules woman at all, but I do think it's true that if a man is interested he'll ask you out. Even the most shy, most socially indept men manage it. And they don't tend to over-analyse whether they've done the right thing.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thu 12-Dec-13 20:35:00

Laurel... Of course you must do what you want to do, it's your life and only you are going to be affected by your decisions. However, you've posted here and all the information we have about this man and your relationship is from YOU. Obviously you're not very happy with the way things are going. Leaping on advice of posters that strikes a chord with you is only a short-term salve, you know that things aren't what you want them to be - you've said so yourself.

My motivation in posting here on your thread is that I would want a friend to tell me to stop it if I were in danger of making myself a laughing stock because they'd know that I'd find that very difficult to take. I'm a woman's woman if there is such a thing and I don't agree with patting you on the head and telling you what you want to hear because I don't believe it to be true or even likely.

I think you know deep down what the situation is. You have a young impressionable daughter who will be taking her lead from you. She'll meet nice people and gameplayers all her life long... she needs to be equipped with the tools to deal with those whose intentions are unclear to protect herself.

bumbleymummy Thu 12-Dec-13 20:46:10

I'm with Kevin'smum and BitOutOfPractice.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 20:49:17

Ifnotnowthenwhen I nearly choked when I read the second line of your post, love it!

I can see all the viewpoints, and to be honest I do think he's thinking he may have offended me and doesn't know what to do. However I think I've made it clear I am interested ie texting last night, suggesting Sunday market etc. unfortunately he never did get back to me about whether he could go, and he would definitely know by know if he'll be free. It would be so tempting to ring casually just in case he is worrying, however I would find it humiliating if he didn't answer or get back to me etc. I was toying with the idea of a casual phone call just to say thanks for dinner, have a nice Christmas etc, but the thought of him ignoring the call or thinking Im harassing him would stop me from doing this.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 20:50:21

I do have the feeling he will make contact, but that it will be in the form of a vague text.

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Dec-13 20:54:58

I don't think he's worrying whether he's offended you - why would he?

Is he really worth all this mind fuckery? Really?!

ALittleStranger Thu 12-Dec-13 21:00:33

Why would he be worrying he's offended you? You keep getting in touch with him, hardly the actions of an offended woman.

TJH1 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:01:36

IfNotNow-yes, a great post. Sorry but he has moved on.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Thu 12-Dec-13 21:04:17

Well it seems there is a big market for the kind of man who sits at home "panicking" after a date unable to agree to another, who tells a woman he doesn't want anything heavy, who regrets having sex and doesn't bother to answer her texts or messages.

I stand corrected. I had no idea some women like this.

Has he responded to your FB message?

TJH1 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:07:43

Thesisa-I totally agree with you-OP please leave it now

BitOutOfPractice Thu 12-Dec-13 21:07:58

I'm not saying that at all this. Just like there's not a market for women who panic after doing something they regret after a first date and then stop texting / communicating unless in the middle of the night on FB while waiting for the man to guess how they feel either.

Like all things, most problems can be solved by talking openly and honestly which neither the oP or the man has done here. They are both sitting at home trying to second guess the other, neither saying how they really feel

TJH1 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:09:53


Coconutty Thu 12-Dec-13 21:12:40

I would leave it now.

LaRegina Thu 12-Dec-13 21:13:13

AAH! Laurel - can I pretend to be your mum for a minute? Now listen carefully dear smile

Just imagine you meet a really lovely man; one who really seems to tick all the boxes. Then imagine that you start dating and it's just really easy and straightforward with no angst whatsoever. He calls you when he says he will, he doesn't blow hot or cold - he makes it really clear that he wants to be with you. You are really happy because you have found a real grown up man.

Doesn't that sound fantastic? And more importantly isn't that what you really want, for you and your DD?

Well it can happen and it probably will - there are plenty of grown up men out there. So do you really want to waste your time with this wishy-washy man-child? You can do so much better.

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:13:30

Herdy he hasn't responded, and I'm going to try and leave it now, it is tempting to ring him but I know I won't.

Back2Two Thu 12-Dec-13 21:13:31

laurel an outsider you are making any number of tenuous excuses for him and keep saying things thAt equate to "he can do one more shitty ignoring things and I'll forgive him but if if he does another ten I'm really going to put my foot down after the next six" or "maybe he's gone temporarily blind and can't text today"

Sorry to be harsh but I'm surprised that you are 35 and talking like this.
Move on. Can you imagine how much hard work this would be? The early days are the EASY part.....move on.......

Laurel1979 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:15:07

Ok I promise I'll try to stop making excuses and move on!

BitOutOfPractice Thu 12-Dec-13 21:24:52

Havng said all that that I've said up there - yes I agree to leave it now. Poling the situatuon again won't help

PPaka Thu 12-Dec-13 21:28:03

Bloody hell, what a palaver!
I think going to a Christmas market is a bad idea for a 2nd date, especially with someone dithering about 'getting serious'
Too awkward

I don't think you've embarrassed yourself so far at all
But you're in a tricky situation
I say, just call him
Suggest a drink/coffee/lunch

fiftyandfab Thu 12-Dec-13 21:45:30

I have a hoof in both fields on this one. Am of no use to you whatsoever, other than I feel your pain hmm

HellonHeels Thu 12-Dec-13 21:46:32

Oh god no do NOT call him again!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage Thu 12-Dec-13 21:52:55

I would bet my chocolate on this man only calling you again when he wants a shag. Sorry.

whyme32 Thu 12-Dec-13 21:58:51

CALL HIM! What is the worse that can happen? You will KNOW if he is interested. No more second guesses by you or MN and no more obsessively checking your phone for texts for the next week. If by calling him, he ends up thinking you are some kind of bunny boiler then he's an idiot. You have nothing to lose by calling.

FlatAsSantasSacks Thu 12-Dec-13 22:03:04

Laurel, stop making excuses for him. If you're doing it now before you've even set foot into date 2 then its kind of set the precedent.

Best mark a line under it all now, and move on before anymore feelings are in involved.

Have a good carefree christmas and you never know what's around the corner.

fiftyandfab Thu 12-Dec-13 22:06:04

ok I'm kinda with whyme on this....nothing to lose by calling and finding out one way or the other, if he turns out to be an arse, it doesn't matter, you'll have moved on... though I think I wouldn't

MatryoshkaDoll Thu 12-Dec-13 22:27:06

Write him off.

If he was into you he'd have responded to your FB message by now and been in touch to make plans for the weekend.

Can you imagine being really into someone and taking days to respond to a message from them?

DeMaz Thu 12-Dec-13 22:34:44

I'm going to suggest something that won't be so popular with the other ladies on here but I would call him one last time!
I'm quite stubborn when it comes to things like this but I would just want to know. If he answers the phone then great but if he doesn't then I would just switch off my phone and never contact him again.

MatryoshkaDoll Thu 12-Dec-13 22:37:25

Why bother calling him when he's already ignored a message from her? She already has her answer.

If/when he sends you a vague 'fishing' text over the weekend, OP, just ignore.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Thu 12-Dec-13 22:44:16

He's ignored a message and not phoned to confirm plans on the day he said he would. Why on earth should she call him?! That's the very definition of desperate!

kaumana Thu 12-Dec-13 22:45:19

OH MY GOD, DO NOT PHONE HIM!! Sorry for the caps, I rarely post on threads like this but I agree with those above who have stated that he is just not into you. Move on, enjoy what it was and try to enjoy dating without turning yourself into knots.

whyme32 Thu 12-Dec-13 22:45:50

She knows she's not desperate! Who cares what he thinks? A quick telephone conversation just to clarify things sounds a whole lot more sensible than the telepathy going on from both sides.

Fairylea Thu 12-Dec-13 22:46:08

Don't call.

Eat a tub of ice cream and watch "he's just not not that into you".

"If a man wants to be with you, he will make that happen". - from the film. Sad but so true. As I have learnt many times !

kaumana Thu 12-Dec-13 22:51:48

It's coming up for 11pm, I can assure you that a call would not be welcome at the moment.

LoisPuddingLane Thu 12-Dec-13 22:54:39

I am also in the "don't call" camp. His silence is your answer. NEXT!

ALittleStranger Thu 12-Dec-13 22:55:10

Why bother calling him when he's already ignored a message from her? She already has her answer.

Exactly. I do not understand why people who say 'you need an answer' don't get that a failure to make contact or plans is your answer.

2rebecca Thu 12-Dec-13 23:26:33

It sounds as though he has changed his mind which is a shame, but I'm not sure not sleeping with him would have made any difference. I've never seen the point of playing games with sex and "holding out" like a high school virgin. If a bloke is going to not contact me again because we had sex "too early" in the relationship then he's a game playing pillock and it wouldn't have worked anyway.

You don't need an answer, I agree.

You have it.

Don't give it any more headspace!

frenchmanicure Fri 13-Dec-13 00:02:56

If you want to call, or text, or whatever, then do it. Ultimately, it won't make a difference to the outcome - if he's a prick now, he'll still be a prick when you contact him. If he's a nice, but lacking in confidence or slightly shy bloke, then contacting him won't do any harm, and may actually do some good.

If he doesn't respond, or is terse, then you have a form of closure. Which I know is something that I need in these situations. Doesn't make you weak for wanting that, or a worse person than others. I don't like the 'I'm better than ever contacting a man' attitude. It comes across as overly smug, as though by choosing to contact you are somehow weak, or not quite as good.

There's no magic formula to relationships. I've had 2 (that I know of, might be more) where if I hadn't pursued the bloke, nothing ever would have happened. They admitted as much to me.

Conversely, I've also dated blokes who went a bit hot and cold, I thought they were messing me around, and they either admitted it - and that they weren't looking for a relationship - or disappeared into the ether. But either way I'd tried and got an answer, or at least felt satisfied that I'd tried/ done my best.

The man I am currently dating - the whole background to our first date would (if I posted it) have everyone saying 'oh you'll never see him again'. Our first few dates were spent at his house, for ex. But it works. It's not perfect, cos real life isn't, it's not all easy and plain sailing. But I don't think it has to be in order to be good!

Ateotd, you have to be true to yourself. If you want to send a text to give him a last chance, or to draw a line, or whatever, you'll know if it will help to do so (I know it would me) and if you honestly feel it would, then go ahead.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Fri 13-Dec-13 00:15:39

I see where french is coming from. Closure is a good thing. I mean, it's pretty obvious he's backed off, but if you want to know why then go ahead and ask him. Might help you for future relationships.

YoungBritishPissArtist Fri 13-Dec-13 00:16:26

I feel like this thread has been infiltrated by Rules girls. Scary!

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Fri 13-Dec-13 00:17:17

I know I've said don't contact previously, but you obviously want to know why he's cooled off.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Fri 13-Dec-13 00:20:04

haha, young the OP has contacted him several times and been ignored. Why keep chasing? My mum taught me:"Don't think about someone who's not thinking about you", or something like that. I think it's a good rule for love relationships or any other type of relationship really!

frenchmanicure Fri 13-Dec-13 00:26:49

I'm completely anti-Rules. Not least because if you're a strong-minded, opinionated, independent woman, that just doesn't fit with the completely passive approach the Rules etc require - and if you try to follow it, looks rather obviously like gameplaying.

anapitt Fri 13-Dec-13 01:57:49

phone him

beaglesaresweet Fri 13-Dec-13 02:15:13

Op did say that she doesn't want to phone, because if he doesn't answer at all she'll feel low. It's her choice, and I can see her point, why risk more humiliation?
If she phoned purely to find out why - I'm amazed some posters think that he'll just be honest and explain. What can he say that's satisfactory? That it's all ruined by sex on 1st date, and that she must 'hate him' as he has put it? pathetic and wet. If he met someone else online or wants to keep options open - does she want to know that in so many words? He's too wet to be so direct anyway. There really is no point asking the reason. He may also have some weird reason (issues of his own, scared of getting emotional, still hung up on an ex) that he's not going to share. It sounds to me know that all his latest attempts at contact are almost to make OP to dump him (after she gets annoyed after all). Maybe he thinks he doesn't deserve her (probably true, as things are going).

niceupthedance Fri 13-Dec-13 05:58:20

Sorry he turned out to be a bit of a dickhead. There's a lot of it about.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Fri 13-Dec-13 07:04:19

I can't believe the op isn't being advised to 'get answers' or closure from him. They had one date!

To constantly contact someone who has told you they don't want a relationship and who is ignoring you is not strong and independent it's weird.

Re the rules- the writer Melissa banks did a pastiche (?) of them in her short story collection the girls guide to hunting and fishing. It's great.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Fri 13-Dec-13 07:05:17

I meant is being advised- doh!

LivingWellNow Fri 13-Dec-13 07:17:09

I get it.

Whatever he thinks, feels, wants blah blah blah; the most important thing to you is that he doesn't think badly of you. No-one here thinks you did the wrong thing in shagging him (if I remember all 378 previous OP's correctly). The only way he can let you know that is to tell you himself by being the bloke you thought he might be prior to the shag. He hasn't done that. So you're left wondering what he thinks of you, what he thought of you before the shag. Was it all for real, did he get cold feet, is he just full of angst.

It's a shame that it doesn't seem to have worked out Laurel. You might not hear what you want to hear from him either way. So you have to make your own mind up and then let it go. No-one likes to think they've fallen for a line, been gullible, invested a lot too soon, been rejected, made mistakes. But that's just how it is sometimes. You have given this man far too much power when in reality he's just an ordinary bloke who isn't on the same page as you - you're not compatible.

peasandlove Fri 13-Dec-13 07:42:57

seriously.. wow.
if you're into him, call him, suggest a meetup. If he's keen, he'll be there, if he's not, he'll make his excuses.
you've got some seriously weird advice in this thread.

leopardprintsock Fri 13-Dec-13 07:48:40

the OP has already asked to call him, has sent him a message, both of which he has ignored, she doesnt need to call him too.

I do think its nutss however, that people think she can just phone him up and expect him to honestly say why he doesnt want to see her again, that is never going to happen. He will lie, or bluff, and the OP wont have any kind of closure at all, because she wont know if thats the actual reason or just bull.

The only closure shes going to get in this case, is by drawing a line under it herself and moving on.

It happens, its not the end of the world, and she will be less quick to believe shit people/men say sometimes.

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 07:49:37

Well he has replied to my Facebook message, along the lines of "sorry I've just got in from work, saw your message" but I haven't replied as I don't really know what to say in response to that. Will see if there's any contact today

Wishihadabs Fri 13-Dec-13 07:53:21

Ok I've been married (to my Steven Hawking) for 15 years but I would send a one liner text me. That's it no more. If he wants to see you again he will...simples (well to me, but as I say feel free to ignore out of date dating advice)

MoleyMick Fri 13-Dec-13 07:57:26

Just leave it now, write it off as a good night that is probably going nowhere... Even if he contacts you now, are you really still interested? All this second-guessing and game playing and who calls who first just says to me it's not meant to be." And sounds exhausting. Surely it shouldn't be so hard and angst-filled??

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 07:57:55

Well he has replied to my Facebook message, along the lines of "sorry I've just got in from work, saw your message"

He's making sure you're still hanging on the end of that thread, isn't he.

Time to get your scissors out.

Wishihadabs Fri 13-Dec-13 08:07:34

That's the idea of a curt call me text he needs to jump dosent he ? It's making it clear you won't be messed about. Or am I wrong ?

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 08:16:42

No way would I be going on a date with someone I've had to practically drag it out of, assuming he even responded to my text...

peasandlove Fri 13-Dec-13 08:22:29

what more do you expect from him? does he need to beg?
guys are not chicks, they are not very expressive with their feelings. He's doing his best from what I can see. You're overthinking it and going to ruin any chance with him

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 08:26:56

what more do you expect from him?

Confirming arrangements on the day he said he would, would be a start... Not difficult is it?

peasandlove Fri 13-Dec-13 08:30:14

do you actually think he's been logged into his facebook account on the offchance the OP may have sent him some vague message on there? please.
let the OP remain single forevermore on the advice of every mumsnetter who ever got burned by a man

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 08:44:06

Oh give it a rest with labelling us all jaded/burned/bitter/whatever...

Laurel him replying 24 hours later to your FB message is just crumbs.
He knows damn well you're waiting for him to give you an answer about whether he's going to come out on the Sunda date YOU asked him on and didn't give you a straight reply about.
If he was truly interested, his FB reply would have said something like "I'll call you at xx time for a chat" or he'd have said about arranging another date. He'd have definitely mentioned excuses regret at not contacting you like he promised.
If he was truly interested he'd still be communicating with you as often as he was before you met, and he would have already got a firm date fixed with you, even if it has to be next weekend due to your mutual schedules etc. At the very least he would have called you when he said he was going to about plans for this weekend.

If you want to call him, do it. (Although after all this I wouldn't). He may not answer. He may be evasive - AGAIN - about arranging another date. He may arrange another date.
If you really are prepared to handle any of those outcomes, without feeling worse than you do now, and it feels like the right thing to you to call him, then do it.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Fri 13-Dec-13 09:05:26

God forbid she should ruin her chance with this wishy washy guy who really can't be arsed with her.

If you do want to see a guy who won't arrange dates and doesn't want anything 'heavy' then yes, pursue him. He's telling you what he is and what you can expect, it you like that, go for it.

LivingWellNow Fri 13-Dec-13 09:18:00

Well I think you win the 'Most Tenacious OP of the Week' Laurel.

I have to bail but I wish you luck.

ALittleStranger Fri 13-Dec-13 09:21:08

Peas you are just trolling. No one wants the OP to be unhappy. What people are saying is that if he was interested he'd had done something by now. You shouldn't have to wrench a date out of someone like a rotten tooth even if that is your style.

They have been on a date. They have slept together. She has asked him for a second date. She has repeatedly contacted him and made clear he's waiting for an answer. How on earth could you be wondering if she's interested Why in that scenario would he be too scared to confirm the bloody plan? He either wants to keep some back-up crumbs around or finds it too awkward to tell someone he's just slept with he doesn't want to see her again.

And that, IMHO, is the only risk involved in first date sex. Even if there's an attraction you don't really know what you think of them and either party is perfectly entitled to go home and decide they don't want to see anyone again. If you have sex that just makes any mis-matched first impressions that bit more awkward.

Maybe that's why I call first date sex a one night stand.

MatryoshkaDoll Fri 13-Dec-13 09:27:06

I don't think those saying don't call him are coming at it from a game playing, follow 'The Rules' angle. I'm not suggesting that not calling him is a way to get him come running and begging for more. That's the point of The Rules, isn't it?

I'm saying don't call him because OP shouldn't waste any more time on him. He's a write off. How soon the sex happened has nothing to do with it. If it's online dating he's probably got a few on the go and someone else has piqued his interest. He won't give OP a straight answer so why would she open herself up to further rejection and/or vagueness by getting in touch with him again? That's not game playing, that's self-preservation.

That FB message from him is pathetic. No 'how are you?' No 'are you free to get together this weekend?'

When I'm really keen on someone, I don't take 24 hours to get back to their messages and when I do, I make sure I have better chat than that.


IfNotNowThenWhen Fri 13-Dec-13 09:39:25

Wishidabs- you are spot on. I no longer do the whole texting/ angsting over if he likes me, anylising throwaway comments. If he likes me, he will call me.
If he doesn't like me enough, he will try and play these kinds of games. Simple. It really is! I wish I had figured it out sooner. And sometimes, when you are so hung up (dangling on that string) on whether he likes you, you forget to ask yourself how much you really like him!
These days I am serene and calm, and I know that , if he's the right guy, he will show he likes me. After all, I want an open, kind man, so why would I even go for a guy who acts shifty!? Both the good relationships I have had in the past,neither party has " chased". Its been more of a running towards each other!
I wish women would value themselves more, and not spend valuable time thinking about men who arnt thinking about them!

bestsonever Fri 13-Dec-13 09:43:12

The best reason not to have sex on a first OD is because it's too early to tell whether they will behave in this manner. Morality does not come into it, it's just better to protect yourself from these players who will move on if you do or don't sleep with them. Far better to suss them out beforehand. I've had some lucky escapes I'd say by holding back then realising hpw shallow they can be. Sort out wheat from chaff before leaping in .

MillyChristmas Fri 13-Dec-13 09:52:08


MillyChristmas Fri 13-Dec-13 09:52:44

He is not interested and she deserves better.

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 09:57:31

Right I think I've finally got the message from him...... Anyway thanks all of you for your support, and I hope this thread may be of use to others in the same position. I really appreciated all the support, it's been a shitty week.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Fri 13-Dec-13 10:12:21

Sorry you've had a tough time Laurel thanks

Anyoneforacheckup Fri 13-Dec-13 10:14:39

Laurel, it seems to me he's half looking for a relationship and half wanting to wait a while before getting together with someone.
He seems a more serious type , but not ready to commit and he jumped in too soon and isn't comfortable.
Shame, but nothing you've done wrong x

Sorry it's been a shitty week.
Have some wine tonight, and put this one behind you.
Oh and dont be surprised if you don't get a random ambiguous/non committal message from him at some point.

"don't get" should have read "do get" of course blush

Icklemariposa01 Fri 13-Dec-13 10:23:04

How do they do it!

Before DH there were countless guys who at first I really wasn't that bothered about and they just kept on texting, messaging me with charming, witty, flirty ways. The chase. And then you're like - ok hang on. Yeah this could be good! And bang. They've got your attention, they've reeled you in and all of a sudden they've backed off, walking backwards, away, muttering ah shit didn't mean it. And then somehow you get turned in to this over analysing banshee!! And you didn't give a hoot in the first place!!!

It's understandable that you had all these different feelings. With being single. But don't give up. There are men put there that won't play games. The last bloke that did that to me. I actually made him to meet up with me and has a right go at him. Saying exactly what I said here. Why can't you just be straight with me. The bloke after that started to play games. We were all out one night and kept on blowing hot and cold. Here we YET again I thought. For three years I had been single and this was the like the 10th millionth guy. I got up and left. That was that! Next guy I met I got to know for 6 months and then went on a date with him. Now we are married.

I had the luxury of working with my DH. That's how I got to know him.

Online dating and the like its difficult to do that.

I don't think by sleeping with him on the 1st date effed things up. It's just he's that kind of guy.

BlueSkySunnyDay Fri 13-Dec-13 10:30:47

Wow glad im not single any more, I was rubbish at this stuff.

I will say that I often used the "dont want anthing too heavy" phrase, not because I wasnt interested in someone but because I wanted to suss them out casually before getting heavily involved.

If a man was too intense and involved too quickly that always raised a red flag to me - I couldnt see it as a personal thing and felt that perhaps they were the rush in and rush out types.

I think if you are going to analyse things this much then perhaps having sex with someone so soon is not for you - unfortunately you have made this mistake with a man who its either not for either or is a player. Its not overly obvious to me from this thread which he is.

He said he already had something on Sunday, perhaps he did!

If you have said "I am still interested in seeing you...but we can keep it light for now" then the ball is in his court.

Laurel I'm sorry it's been a shitty week. Get yourself out there this weekend and enjoy it!

He's not worth any more time.

And to the Call Him posters:

She asked him about the Christmas market.

He was supposed to get back to her.

She messaged him.

He ignored her for 24 hours.

What else would you like her to do?

They had one date. It didn't work out. Onwards and upwards.

MatryoshkaDoll Fri 13-Dec-13 10:34:41

OP you haven't done anything wrong. It's fine to sleep with someone on the first date if that's what you're both up for.

But back when I was dating I learned pretty quickly that I couldn't have one night stands because I get too emotionally invested. Sounds like you're the same type of person.

My best friend on the other hand is able to have no strings sex and not get remotely emotionally attached. So it works for her.

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 10:38:20

Aargh have I blown it by having sex on first date?

To answer your original question, no you didn't blow it by having sex on the first date.

But for the future and to protect your feelings I think it would be better to hold off on sex until you're sure that you are actually going to end up dating.

If you'd just met him for a coffee on that first 'date', I don't think you would have had as much heartache this week.

I hope you have something nice planned for the weekend with friends or family.

I always have sex on the first date - saves wasting time if they're rubbish in bed we're sexually incompatible.

But you don't blow a relationship by doing that - if he's an arse, he'll be an arse whether you have sex on the first or tenth date. Except by the tenth date you may have invested more emotions in him.

You've had a lucky escape!

I don't think that you blew it by having sex with him either.

I'd like to see what others think of what I'm going to suggest now, because my experience with OLD is limited.
But maybe it's best to not have too much contact before the first date ? You had two weeks of his good morning texts and you'd both already talked about sex on the first date etc.
I wonder if all that comms builds up expectations too much and gives a false sense of intimacy, ie you feel you already know each other well even before you've actually met.

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 10:54:42

Thanks you guys, it means a lot to have support like this :-)

LoisPuddingLane Fri 13-Dec-13 10:56:45

I agree. I had two months of contact with someone prior to the first date. This was mainly because at the time we were in different countries. I was about to move there so was putting out dating-feelers.

Two months of email, texting, skyping. And then after we slept together the silent dumping.

So yes, it is probably better to not work oneself up beforehand, and to be mindful of the fact that sex tends to bring emotion into it. For many of us, anyway.

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 10:57:14

Anyoneforacheckup I think you've summed him up well, it's exactly the impression I got, he jumped in too fast and is now seriously back pedalling. Who knows, I reckon he'll be in contact but I'm certainly not going to jump in quickly like that again.

JeanSeberg Fri 13-Dec-13 11:01:02

Completely agree with you Herdy.

When I used to do OD, I'd chat to several people at once:

- some would disappear after a few messages
- some would shit themselves when I suggested meeting up
- a few would get to the point where we could arrange a meet-up
- of the few left maybe one or two would actually lead to a 'date'

Up to that point, my aim was to establish that we had enough things in common that it was worth meeting up in the 'real world' and then for that meeting to take place as soon as possible.

So perhaps we'd exchange a few messages on the dating site to get to know a little bit about each other, then suggest meeting to determine if they're serious or not, then swap mobile numbers and meet up asap. Depending on other commitments, no more than a maximum of a 2 weeks between first contact and a meeting (which should be short and sweet in order to see if both parties want to organise a 'proper' date after that).

I wouldn't sleep with them on the first date purely because I can't handle one-night stands, not for any moral reason or risk of ruining any future prospect.

CalamitouslyWrong Fri 13-Dec-13 11:18:41

This is a definite case of 'if it's this hard now...'

You really don't need anything that involves the amount of effort or analysis this has. If analysis is your thing, do a PhD. grin

Writerwannabe83 Fri 13-Dec-13 11:58:32

I agree about Online Dating being potentially responsible for investing too much in somebody before you even meet them. If you talk online or text for weeks it can give you the sense of 'knowing them' and having a bond with them, when really it is just words on a screen. I understand you were calling each other but we can all be something we're not behind the anonymity of a handset.

I met my now husband online and we had our first date two days after he originally messaged me. I was wary of falling into the trap of constantly chatting and taking no action etc so we just bit the bullet and decided to go for it to see if we were compatible in the flesh.

ImBronnie Fri 13-Dec-13 12:37:40

Worldgonecrazy you have said you always have sex on the first date, but have you gone on to actually be in a proper long term relationship after.?

ImBronnie usually, yes, and those that haven't have been nothing to do with having sex on the first date and everything to do with me or the other party not wanting to take things more seriously. 3 x LTR of a year or two each, a marriage that lasted 10 years and I have been with my current DH for 11 years.

Having said that, I have never done online dating (it was seen as a shameful last resort when I was younger, and didn't exist at all when I started forming relationships), and it looks like it's a different world to just meeting someone you like and arranging to go for a meal/drink with them as a first date.

UrethraFranklin Fri 13-Dec-13 13:12:36

Chances are by the time he realises he's fucked up, you'll be way over it and onto the next fwink

Lovevhate Fri 13-Dec-13 13:21:00

Just let it go. You talk like you know him but you don't. He's a prat. End of.

MillyChristmas Fri 13-Dec-13 13:27:44

Thanks World grin

MillyChristmas Fri 13-Dec-13 13:28:26

I was curious to hear your reply too.

beaglesaresweet Fri 13-Dec-13 14:36:46

yes, as it turns out world meant that she had sex with men not first time she meets them, but after meeting them in flesh and chatting, and then arranging a date where they have sex. Still fast for some, but at least she's seen them already in their normal mode, not put on dating mode how it's often on OD.

Yes, OP, he may have scared himself off as it's been already said, rather than being a player, but who wants to deal with this screwed-up type of guy who is scared of his own shadow? Please don't get hooked by him again, as he's bound to contact you with questions like 'So now you REALLY hate me? do you?' confused

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 14:49:54

Yes I'm definitely not going to waste time thinking about him any more, at least I'll try anyway. I have a busy weekend planned with friends which will help take my mind off things. Part of the problem for me was that I was lulled into thinking I knew him, when I got my mobile phone bill yesterday I was shocked by the volume of texts we'd exchanged, last Tuesday there were 60!!! It didn't feel crazy at the time but in hindsight......... I think part of what Im feeling now is just the "loss" of having someone to chat to or who sends me a nice text to let me know they are thinking of me, even if it was just a 2 week period it was nice at the time, after being single for so long.

Annakin31 Fri 13-Dec-13 14:50:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Annakin31 Fri 13-Dec-13 14:52:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beaglesaresweet Fri 13-Dec-13 15:47:14

next time, OP, definitely meet up eralier on, and THEN you can get into all the texting and good mornings. Very understandabler that it was nice to know someone was thinking of you and wanting to know you - I'm single and would love that, but I've learned that actions have to happen before listening to words!

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Fri 13-Dec-13 16:26:04

Yeah agree with others. I think your mistake was to decide he was a lovely guy before meeting him. 60 texts in one day to a complete stranger is a bit 'heavy' - I know he was reciprocating then but still.
When I dated online, I went for a few email exchanges to arrange date, that's all.
Hope you are planning a nice weekend laurel.

So 60 texts exchanged on Tuesday. Loads of opportunities for him to say 'oh btw if I can't make it on Sunday, do you fancing doing .... next weekend?' or similar. But he didn't.
I think he may have a date planned this weekend with someone else and is waiting to see how it goes before 'choosing' .
I'm the first to say there's no problem with seeing others until you're ready to be exclusive with just one, but if that's the case the way he's handled it is awful.

Laurel I understand about you missing that feeling of someone being there - but you're now a step closer to finding that great guy who actually will be there for you.
I do feel that you'll hear from this one again at some point but please don't read too much into it if you do.
Have a good weekend.

SoleSorceress Fri 13-Dec-13 17:55:14

Thank you for your reply to me arsenal

Chalk this up to experience OP. You've been single for a while and broken the ice.

Multi date x

Laurel1979 Fri 13-Dec-13 18:03:47

Just to clarify, the crazy 60 texts was me replying to him, in case anyone thinks Im a loon (which I probably look like after reading this thread....)!

Mmm maybe multidate is a good idea :-)

SoleSorceress Fri 13-Dec-13 18:29:15

You're are not a loon, fuck all of the sort. Dating can be complex. It is a learning curve. I am so grateful for your thread.

Who knows what he may do next...but in the meantime hold the upper hand Laurel.

We can advise you here x

BitOutOfPractice Fri 13-Dec-13 18:49:36

Yep, multidating. Makes you see the wheat for the chaff very clearly

frenchmanicure Fri 13-Dec-13 19:21:34

I never found multi-dating worked - main problem was generally getting more than 1 date lined up at a time (tended to find out of 10 blokes messaging you, at best you'd get 2 offers of dates, possibly 1 of which would actually happen...then back to the drawing board!).

I did once have 3 dates in 4 days - first spent 20 mins snogging me at end of date, then never contacted me again. Second was awful, so I sent a 'thanks but no thanks' text. Third said I was very clever and what a great time he'd had. And never contacted me again either.

Dating is hard work.

nkf Fri 13-Dec-13 20:05:19

Do not reply to that text. What is there to say anyway? He saw your message and has been busy. What is in that message that you should respond to?

BitOutOfPractice Fri 13-Dec-13 20:09:36

French yes it is. It's a numbers game. So it makes sense to spread your bets

stardusty5 Fri 13-Dec-13 20:29:17

JeanSeberg has basically described my online dating strategy! It worked for me and i went through the process a lot of times before i met my dp.

It really helps with preventing yourself getting too attached too quickly as you always feel that you have other options if this one doesn't work out. Its not failsafe and i had many tummy churning weeks like yours but it did get better the more I got out there and met people.

I wish you all the best in finding someone brilliant soon smile

frenchmanicure Fri 13-Dec-13 20:35:34

Oh, I appreciate it's a numbers game, I just used to find it nigh on impossible to get more than 1 date lined up at a time (aside from the one occasion I mentioned). Multi-dating seemed a good theory, I just never managed to put it into practice..

Hoping though now that my OD days are behind me smile

Imgettingthere Fri 13-Dec-13 23:04:55

Yep too soon bail out and forget it ever happened.

nkf Fri 13-Dec-13 23:06:08

Have a lovely weekend.

2rebecca Fri 13-Dec-13 23:59:02

I don't think I could do multi dating. It seems wrong somehow. In normal dating you don't go out with different people simultaneously so i don't see why online dating should be different.
If I went out with a bloke and liked him and found out that after seeing me he was still seeing other women I'd not want to see him again. If I'm not great enough that he cancels all other women for the foreseeable future then it's not meant to be.
I do lots of sports that are full of blokes so have never needed to do internet dating.

kevinsmum Sat 14-Dec-13 11:31:43

Laurel. This is a cut and paste of all the things you said about this man on the first two days of this thread:
we seemed to have a lot in common, There was a lot of sexual chemistry on the phone, we agreed we both liked each other We went out and immediately hit it off. I really like him and had a good feeling about him straight away… sex (it was amazing definitely not typical awkward first sex)… couldn't keep our hands off each other. he texted me saying what a great night he had, he texted 3 times, just things like "good morning xx" I will be so disappointed if it doesn't work out.... he usually texts first thing in the morning to say good morning and then later that day, hopefully another date will happen, he'd said twice on the phone that he'd like us to go on holiday next summer together, If it seems he wants another date, which hopefully I will know by Thursday, I'll feel a lot happier, I guess I was wanting everyone on here to tell me of course he's interested, For the 2 weeks until we met on Sat he'd been sending me a good morning text, he just seemed so keen beforehand and I had such good vibes about him Really wish I hadn't fallen for him! until he started weirding out on me yesterday everything else seemed perfect, I'm pretty certain he's not on a relationship, we are friends on Facebook he asked me to meet him 3 separate occasions he was unbelievably keen, to the point where I had to tell him to back off as he was bombarding me with texts he probably was a decent guy he said "glad u don't hate me." Seems he thought I'd be annoyed at him for wanting to have sex on first date? I'd love to talk to him If I were looking at my posts objectively I'd think he wasn't interested, but from the conversations we've had it just doesn't fit with the impression I got at the time. The night before we met up, he rang me saying he was worried I would cancel and he would be tempted to turn his phone off on Saturday until we met, as he couldn't bear seeing a message from me pulling out of the date, Friday, he'd asked me to go with him on Sunday morning (the morning after our date)
All pretty positive, eh? Now this is what you ‘friends’ here said based solely on what you had said:
MONDAY : it's like men assume that as soon as we've fucked them, we're going to get all emotionally involved, he's likely to be a misogynistic arse, don't fall into the trap of thinking he might change his mind, let's see whether he passes the first wanker test, now he's shagged you he wants to keep you at arm's length in case you get "ideas", he hasn't fallen for you yet, there are a few red flags waving, he doesn't want you to assume you are exclusive, if he judged you, sod him, he is not emotionally available, Don't waste your time, he sounds like a bit of a drama llama, you don't see him again for dust apart from maybe a booty call now and again, he decided he would get his wicked way with you, He's telling you he's not interested but you're not listening, he is not really interested, this is typical male behaviour , If he just disappears , he's a wanker, he's a misogynistic arse. I don't like the sound of him, he's emotionally unavailable, he's reeling you in.
TUESDAY now he's got what he wanted, he can barely be arsed to say 'morning'. these arent good signs cut your losses, Sounds a bit of a stone age charmer cunt, why be with a man who makes you feel insecure, he is a waster a typical OD inadequate bloke, He's giving off mixed signals, which seems designed for you to overanalyse it, Don't have the talk, he's been there, done it that is a fucking terrible sign YOU ARE NOT FREE THIS SATURDAY why place such a low value on yourself He got what he wanted, he has moved on You've fallen for a fantasy don't text him he's blown cold on you you're onto a loser you shouldn't give a shit. He has ALREADY told you enough for you to be absolutely crystal fucking clear that he is either not interested, or he is a player, he might be in a relationship already and uses this dating website on the side write him off straight away - no contact at all How do you KNOW that he means what he says you're desperately clinging on to your hopes of this relationship You don't know this man You have a daughter who is 8, it's not good for her to see her mum like this. When it's right, there's none of this shit. No second guessing, no game playing, no head games, no cold feet This man isn't interested in you, I think you sound desperate Listen. There are FUCKING LOADS of them out there why isn't he clamouring to hear from you, vow to have nothing more to do with him. Delete his number, don't reply he'll toy with your feelings and affections revelling in his role as 'puppetmaster' Dump him in your mind and pay no heed to anything more that he may do or say - it has no value whatsoever Do NOT text him.
Not one of these people has met him, not one has had a conversation with him, not one has received a text from him. Do you see what happened here? By Wednesday you were giving out signals to him that you were annoyed with him, by the end of the week you were promising these ‘friends’ you wouldn’t reply to him if and when he got in touch again.
The point is you liked him, you wanted it to work. Maybe he has cooled off, but it is for to decide, based on your own experience of him. Don’t let the mumsnet harpies dictate your life for you. These people have their own agendas – they talk of experiences with other men, as though they are relevant, as though all men are the same. They just are not. Good luck!

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Sat 14-Dec-13 11:52:35

Please tell us about our agenda, kevinsmum. It sound fascinating.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 14-Dec-13 12:04:53

Isn't it, Thisis? I'd say that perhaps kevinsmum has an agenda himself/herself(?); no life of their own, no new issues of Take A Break handy and needing to keep the drama going by giving Laurel false hopes.

I'm happy to stick with my agenda of giving women (such as myself) a gentle shake, telling them to take stock before doing and saying things they'll regret later. I'd rather follow that 'agenda' any day than the toe-curling, excruciating claptrap posted to keep OP hooked.

I hope you're not still here, Laurel, you won't learn anything new, just regurgitated 'advice' whatever the 'agenda'.

MyBachisworsethanmybite Sat 14-Dec-13 12:06:19

I think the Mumsnet agenda is that basically men should be subservient to their bossy wives!

And any that aren't are bastards.

There are a lot of bastards described, of course, but I do think the Mumsnet agenda is all about finding bastard qualities in all but the most subservient men.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 14-Dec-13 12:17:36

I've not seen that, MyBach; I've seen double-standards though, which have been roundly - and rightly - jumped on but I don't see MN as anything other than a site which hosts and enables views and opinions from men and women alike.

kevinsmum Sat 14-Dec-13 12:21:35

Ah the vultures are still circling wink. I never said anything about a common agenda - I said you have your own agendas. And those are not Laurel's and nothing to do with hers. All I did was highlight the torrent of negativity she received supposedly based on all the positive things she said herself. And now you immediately resort to abusing me - I have 'no life of my own' . It must be very painful to be so full of bile and actually quite sad. Now - where did I put that Take a Break?

I have an agenda.

I want to rid the world of misuse of question marks in internet posts...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 14-Dec-13 12:37:51

kevinsmum... You're the one calling everybody but those sharing your opinion 'harpies' - now 'vultures'. Nobody has called you anything. You sound, dare I say it - 'mannish'.

Plumbingtrouble Sat 14-Dec-13 13:04:31

Any update Laurel?

lookatmybutt Sat 14-Dec-13 13:46:20

kevinsmum - you're just plain wrong about this man-hating agenda business. Are you an MRA? It sounds like it.

I'm also a member of a forum where most of the posters are male. Many guys have posted similar situations to the OPs where their awesome date has suddenly gone cold on them and they don't know what to do.

You know what sort of advice they receive from the other men? Exactly the same as what the OP received here

To the OP, it's highly unlikely that sleeping with him on the first date will have made any difference. If it did then he certainly wasn't a keeper anyway.

I've jumped into bed pretty swifly before but have also waited it out with some other guys for a couple of months or so. Made not the slightest bit of difference - they can decide you're not for them at any point and start acting like an asshole at any point.

It sucks, but there it is.

chocolatespiders Sat 14-Dec-13 14:02:35

Just read 455 messages and had the fight off dd when she grabbed to laptop so I could get to the end and no update??????????

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 14:06:08

What's MRA please?

JeanSeberg Sat 14-Dec-13 14:24:06

What do you mean no update? He never got back to her when he said he would so no second date.

Writerwannabe83 Sat 14-Dec-13 14:25:11

I bet she has text him grin

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 14:28:18

Lookatmybut mentioned a poster was a MRA . Can anyone enlighten me....please?

Writerwannabe83 Sat 14-Dec-13 14:29:58

I don't have a clue what it means either, grin

ALittleStranger Sat 14-Dec-13 14:31:01

What update? It's done.

JeanSeberg Sat 14-Dec-13 14:31:17
crunchypower Sat 14-Dec-13 14:31:24

MRA = men's rights activist

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 14:39:03

Thanks .

SweetSeraphim Sat 14-Dec-13 15:44:48

MyBachisworsethanmybite - what a load of old shite.

Most strong women really aren't attracted to subservient men. It's all about equality, isn't it? Feminism 101 really.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 15:53:16

Ok there is a bit of an update, not a very exciting one though.....

I decided to ring him yesterday (don't slate me please!!). Not to find out what was happening though, just wanted to basically let him know I hadn't really wanted anything heavy etc. so I rang and said, just wanted to thank you for the lovely meal, it was a fun night, wanted to wish you all the best for the future, wasn't meant to be, let's move on and forget about it, have a nice Christmas. He said he didn't want to forget about it, likes me, realises he jumped in quickly with all the texting/holiday talk, and realised he'd been back pedalling. I said I hadn't been looking for anything serious, hoped I hadn't given him the impression that I was, and I too regretted jumping in so quickly as it would have been better to be more casual/fun etc. he sounded like he's been working a lot (he has 2 jobs and I can see on FB he's doing long hours), he said he'd be stressed until his work finishes for the Christmas hols next week. I said I was actually really busy with my friends etc this weekend, we left it that we'd be on touch, but left it vague re arrangements. I have put a lot of stuff on my FB page last night and today that Im doing with my friends, he sent a text today, had a quick chat, he said enjoy your day and that was it. I actually feel a lot better now I rang, as he has actually texted me more, now I look like Im busy and out having fun. Don't know what/if anything will happen next, but either way Im less bothered now!

Writerwannabe83 Sat 14-Dec-13 15:58:24

Good - game playing is such a waste of everyone's time. Without having an actual conversation then true communication can't take place - it is pointless yo try and guess and predict what someone else is thinking. Especially when both parties are doing it smile

You did the right thing ringing him in my eyes - and whatever happens, happens, but at least you acted like an adult, good for you smile

SweetSeraphim Sat 14-Dec-13 15:59:47

Oh good lord. Why are you still interested in him?

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:00:50

Hi, are you really less bothered though or do you just feel a renewed sense of hope?

nkf Sat 14-Dec-13 16:03:34

Dear oh dear. I'm glad you feel better but dear oh dear.

So what did he say was his reason for not getting back to you on Thursday as he'd promised to do when you asked him out? How long was he planning to keep you hanging on his sleeve waiting for him to bother to let you know his plans?

MyBachisworsethanmybite Sat 14-Dec-13 16:09:35

Sweetseraphim where did I say I found subservient men attractive (or not)?

I'm just describing the Mumsnet orthodoxy as I see it.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:10:05

If I'm honest I probably rang him because I wanted to look like the dumper, not the dumpee (if those are real words) and I feel better if he doesn't think he has "played" me. I honestly can't say if I feel a sense of hope - it's true I automatically feel a bit emotional about someone I've slept with so recently - but I don't think I'll be that bothered now if nothing comes of it or if I don't hear from him again. It was a spur if the moment thing ringing him - I was actually about to start work, just felt it was the right thing to do and when I phoned him I said I can't really talk as I'm about to go into work, but just wanted to give him a quick ring to say thanks for the dinner etc. I'm glad I spoke to him, feel a weight lifted off my chest for some reason!

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:10:59

I'm sorry but I dont think ringing him was a good idea Laurel. You have already contacted him twice this week and he has not had time to reply or phone you. Your phone call was you trying to restart something. His reply was him just being nice to you and trying to let you down gently. No man is that busy that he can't make time. It's nothing to do with game playing. If he had been interested in seeing you again he would have phoned you. You were very very brave phoning though but you ate just chasing him.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:11:30

I didn't mention Thursday, just said I'm too busy this weekend with friends, before he had the chance to mention it. It was only a short phone call

MyBachisworsethanmybite Sat 14-Dec-13 16:11:35

Um, so he kinda dumped you by not replying, so you kinda dumped him by ringing and saying you weren't that interested anyway.

And you're going to maybe do it again some time. [Confused]

Glad you feel better about it though.

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:11:46


Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:14:31

Well, I can see what you mean. But I just feel better for doing it, I'd hate for someone to think I was at home pining for them and they have the upper hand, if you know what I mean.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:15:36

I don't know if I would do it again. I wouldn't sleep with him again that's for sure.

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:18:09

Do you mean you would actually go out with him still.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:20:43

I don't know. It would depend on when he contacts me and what he says. I think I'll hear from him soon. If its just crappy vague messages then no, I wouldn't. If he appeared interested and made some effort then I might, but I'm not making myself readily available either to him.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:22:38

I didn't think I had anything to lose by ringing. The way things stood, he thought I wanted a serious relationship and I didn't know what was happening. Now at least he knows I wasn't actually that bothered

Laurel I didn't expect you to ask him why he never got back to you about the date. The onus was on him to give you the excuse reason.
Him not getting back to you, when he knew you were waiting for his response, was rude. And it was even more rude of him to not mention it as soon as the conversation started.

At this point, he simply isn't interested and that phone conversation smacks of him trying to 'let you down gently'. Happens a lot. It's cowardly behaviour to not be straight.
He may find that he's interested at some point in the future, but right now he isn't interested.

His words and actions should match. Someone who is telling you they want to see you again but isn't planning anything and isn't even initating communication? Words don't match the action.
And this applies in all relationships, not just romantic ones.

Why did he think you wanted a serious relationship? Is that what's on your profile? If so, is it not true? I'm getting confused fgrin

Writerwannabe83 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:27:49

If he wasn't interested he wouldn't have answered the phone.
If he didn't want to talk or see her again then he would have ignored her call.

But he didn't.

Unless you used 1471 Op grin - but I'm guessing hoping you didn't grin

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:28:15

Well if that's what you want and he pulls his finger out and "man ups' then fair enough.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:28:31

Well he did text me today. But that may have been as I had put updates on my FB page which included that I was out with a group of male and female friends. Or maybe not, it's hard to know. I don't know why he'd keep in touch if he completely wasn't interested.
I'll update if there is any more contact- that is, if you aren't all bored to tears by the saga....

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:29:23

I didn't use 1471 lol, my number would have come up on his mobile!

JeanSeberg Sat 14-Dec-13 16:29:52

I can understand what you mean.

Perhaps that you've broken the deadlock of should I/shouldn't I call - will we/won't we meet. And it's a relief that you're clear now where you stand. Sometimes the brain can take a while to catch up with the heart.

As long you feel better, that's all that matters, not what anyone else thinks.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:30:44

I think on my profile I had put looking for a relationship, and so had he

lemonmuffin Sat 14-Dec-13 16:32:39

I'm glad you feel better Laurel, maybe learn from this for next time tho.

Writer, I really don't think his answering the call is firm evidence at all of his interest. If he's trying to let her down gently he probably believes he can just feed her more BS and she'll eventually ''get the message" about how busy he is.

Laurel, I agree that if you really do feel better then that's all that counts now.
And if what you want is for him to do a massive turnaround, then I hope he does.
Best of luck!

Plumbingtrouble Sat 14-Dec-13 16:37:12

Hey Laurel, I have been watching this with interest as I got involved with someone 5 months ago and have posted on another thread.
The difference is I was married but the marriage had been dead for a long time and sexless for 4 and we have now separated. The OM was the catalyst if I am totally honest.

Anyway, I feel your pain. This guy approached me in a bloody shop FGS whilst I was minding my own business. I got sucked in. We met a couple of times, had sex after about 6 weeks (although had only actually seen him 4 times in those 6 weeks). To cut a long story short, we have been texting like mad, he has showered me with compliments, we get along brilliantly and the sex was amazing.

We met last Tuesday, he wanted to see me again Thursday, then Friday but I couldn't and then we met again last Sat night for dinner. Had a great time and chatted in the car after until 12.30. He even asked if I could get away for a few days between xmas and new year to go to bloody Switzerland!

Anyway, texts still flowing but felt he had cooled off. Had a conversation Wednesday night and he has pulled the plug. Says he is not sure where he wants to live and that stuff is complicated blah blah. He can't see me as he is falling me blah blah and if he moves way it would be sad for both of us.

He is 47 and never been married with his longest relationship being 3 years. I personally think he cannot commit to anything. he has been talking about moving in to a flat for months and that has not happened.

The point I am trying to make is that it is so easy to get swept up in it all and lose yourself and I can totally empathise. I feel sick with sadness at what has happened and foolish for allowing myself to get wrapped up in this, but it is human nature. I am leaving my mobile in my bedroom cos the waiting for texts and their content was killing me. We are still in touch with texts (not sure how good an idea that is though)

We all want to be wanted at the end of the day and I truly feel there is someone out there for everyone.

Sorry rambling on here, but I just feel that we both feel the same and those feelings are not good; insecure, irrational and certainly not like me and I am sure not like you. I have lost 5 pounds due to stress and a total lack of appetite.

So, look after yourself and your dd and we will find someone who flaming well deserves us.


X posted.
If you're not looking for a relationship then don't put that on your profile! It's not fair to the guys who are looking for a relationship and it's confusing. And apparently it's the reason this one has been put off.

Wuxiapian Sat 14-Dec-13 16:42:04

But, he does have the upper hand and knows it as you're the one doing all the chasing!

He's obviously not that interested. Forget him and move on.

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:42:22

Keep is informed....please . It will be interesting to see how he responds now. smile

MillyChristmas Sat 14-Dec-13 16:42:38


Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:47:19

I will do :-)

MonkeysInTheFog Sat 14-Dec-13 16:49:06

So what did his text say?

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 16:55:40

Nothing v exciting Monkey, just I'd put on that a few of us were out for drinks, tagged some names , both male and female. He texted and said it sounded like fun, enjoy my day etc. I don't know why he'd keep in touch if he wasn't interested, unless he's trying to keep his options open etc.

nkf Sat 14-Dec-13 17:04:45

Nobody has dumped anyone. You went on a date and had sex. There is no relationship. You are making something out of this that it doesn't merit.

I think that you did make a mistake in sleeping with him. Not because it spoiled a big league relationship but because it put you emotionally in a vulnerable position. It sounds as if you feel exposed. I think you should protect yourself and let it go. Learn from it but don't call him any more. He will be pleasant and you will get your hopes up and on and on it will roll.

Let it go.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 17:11:15

I'm definitely not initiating contact with him again

"unless he's trying to keep his options open etc."

as I said earlier, at this point he isn't interested.
He'd be ok with letting you down gently, except that hasn't worked.
So at this point he's also ok with keeping his options open because you have initiated comms with him, but he's not interested enough to see you again or even have the courtesy to let you know about a date you'd discussed.
He'll do the minimum to keep you on the hook but he's not bothered what happens either way.

Laurel re not initating contact, I'm glad to hear that. But you also have to decide how much longer you'll put up with his meaningless texts. What's your boundary? When do you expect him to come back and make a firm date with you?

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 17:24:39

I've decided a week maximum re meaningless texts, after that stage am deleting his number and "de-friending" on Facebook. I should probably be doing that now though, shouldn't I?

If you defriend him now, it's possible that you'll start to question yourself again and think that you've sent him a message that you're no longer interested and that may mess your head up even more.
So I think I'd keep him on there - remove him from your news feed though - until your deadline .
And next time, maybe don't even add someone on Facebook until you've been out with a couple of times at least? Again, I've limited experience with OLD, and on my Facebook I only have people who are actually friends, so perhaps my advice isn't the best on this fgrin

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 17:43:06

Thanks Herdy, I think you're right. And I should remove him from my news feed, as I feel sick every time I see his name coming up. Although I can see that his mates are going round to his place tonight to watch some sports thing, which at least means he isn't going on a hot date. But yes, it would be easier if I wasn't constantly being reminded of him.

lemonmuffin Sat 14-Dec-13 18:31:54

do The Rules next time, please just try it smile

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 18:48:49

I will I promise!

Cutitup Sat 14-Dec-13 19:17:32

Don't delete him. That's just childish and bitter. You never know... you could be friends for life. might happen at some other time. You just never know. I think you did the right thing by calling him. Well done, you!

SweetSeraphim Sat 14-Dec-13 19:56:41

MyBach - you said

<I think the Mumsnet agenda is that basically men should be subservient to their bossy wives!

And any that aren't are bastards.>

I'm saying that there are a lot of strong women on MN, and generally what you've said is a lot of pish.

MyBachisworsethanmybite Sat 14-Dec-13 20:08:52

"Strong women" does generally equal bossy, though. So I think you're agreeing with me.

SweetSeraphim Sat 14-Dec-13 20:27:45

Doesn't it just mean women that are capable, happy in their own skin and don't take any shit?

MatryoshkaDoll Sat 14-Dec-13 21:31:58

I think the 'im going to be busy with work until Christmas' line is a 'dont call me, I'll call you' (or not, as the case may be).

That's three times you've initiated contact now and rather than jump at the chance to see you again he's been vague and left you hanging.

You haven't 'dumped' him at all. If he rang tomorrow and asked you on another date you'd be all over it. You're still interested and he's still got all the power and he probably knows it. Or doesn't care.

I really think you should leave it now.

HanselandGretel Sat 14-Dec-13 21:46:13

Sounds like you have fallen for him and there's no shame in that, but it does seem like he is ambivalent, at the moment anyhow.
He is being polite but seriously non committal, I feel he didn't want to be rude by ignoring you but he has given no promising indications that he wants to meet for a second time.
Let him off and stop keeping tabs on him as you'll only end up becoming slightly obsessive about what he's up to on FB (I hate the thing and never use it!) Also I wouldn't go becoming 'friends' on there a guy I only went on one date with as they are still very much an unknown quantity and best left off personal social network sites until you know them better.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 23:05:32

Yes I am starting to see things more clearly now, I was just really hoping to be honest he was just running scared and would change his mind. I don't know now. I guess I will have a better idea if I hear from him again. I'm beginning to feel a bit stupid now!

JeanSeberg Sat 14-Dec-13 23:08:40

Meant in the kindest terms, you have too much time on your hands to be churning this round and round.

It's nearly Christmas and you have a young daughter. This should be an exciting time packed full of trips to Santa, decorating the tree, making decorations, choosing presents etc etc.

LoisPuddingLane Sat 14-Dec-13 23:12:48

'Now at least he knows I wasn't actually that bothered.'

Except you are, or have been. More than 500 messages on this thread on the back of one date. That sounds like a bit bothered.

BlodynTatws Sat 14-Dec-13 23:13:28

Yep, rightly or wrongly you blew it by having sex with him on the first date. He played this very well. He knew exactly how to groom you and how to pull your strings. He constructed a lovely little makebelieve world of the two of you. He got what he wanted. He hasn't tried to see you since at all and ignored you. He knows you still want him. Your short phone call confirmed to him that your still wanting him despite you telling us that you only did it to make yourself feel better. No, you just tried to provoke a response from him. Even on the phone he didn't arrange to see you. Hes done this before so your probably not the first. He has blocked you from the dating site. What does he have to do for you to see that he is just not interested at all. You are watching his facebook and noting his movements and planning how your facebook will look to attract his attention. Your turning into a bit of a bunny boiler here. Your minimising everything you are doing. I understand that you would be very hurt by what this man has done but just stop now before you become the joke amongst his friends.

Laurel1979 Sat 14-Dec-13 23:20:26

I know I know..... Yes I admit I am bothered - just didn't want him to think I was.....

I have been doing nice stuff with DD, we've been to a Santa's grotto and the pantomime today!

HanselandGretel Sat 14-Dec-13 23:27:11

'You wanted him to think, you didn't want him to think' etc etc...STOP trying to manipulate the situation, there lies the way of madness!

Glad you've had a nice day with your DD.