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How predictable, another husband and porn thread

(133 Posts)
jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 20:06:37

Well my husband has finally admitted 'a problem ' with porn, no surprise to me, he says it's all mainstream but I cannot come to terms with the way he has rejected me for such a long time so I think it might be game over. He has always known I don't care about mainstream porn it's the lying and replacing a physical relationship with his own interests.

He has always been 'a lovely man' but over the years there have been some 'incidents' which have been unnerving for me.
There was a lot of child abuse around my family when I was growing up and I am unsurprisingly more sensitive to it than most people.
I have witnessed what I believe to be inappropriate behaviour from him, with young people /children which could be written off or barely noticed by some people. and i found one websearch in 2008 which could be construed as dodgy depending on your feelings about the subject
I don't think I can go further in finding out what he's 'in to' I can't be bothered, I am angry and feel let down and if he is a pervert I don't think I'm ready to find out.

He works in IT for 30 years and if he wanted to he could hide anything. He is generally quite secretive and not particularly sexual with me unless I make a big deal of it, although I know he is interested in sex because I have in the past done limited cyber stalking and apart from one occasion I found him to have 'normal' interests.

The other big issue is that I suffer with anxiety which has been made worse following the birth of my children and it's hard for me to work out what is a genuine problem and what is my over active and paranoid imagination.
I can't discuss it with friends because it's such a controversial subject and I can't just rock up at the police station with the computer because if I'm wrong It will of course wreck my marriage although it feels pretty much shattered now.

I need to know if there is anything to be concerned about though, I have daughters and we are around other children all the time. We have argued about it over the years but my husband was adamant it's all 'in my head.

I have discussed this in counselling but he has previously refused come to counselling although today he says he will get counselling and sort out his 'problem' and wants me to give him a chance.

I feel like I have given him all the chances, in the early days he was interested in me sexually but it died down quite fast, he convinced me I just had a high sex drive and I tried to come to terms with our differences because everything else about him seemed so wonderful. We probably have sex every six weeks normally after I have moaned about the lack of intimacy,
I have pretty much stopped initiating it as the actual act is too depressing, like an act, I felt like a vessel no sparks from him and to be frank I feel like I've gone off him.
He thinks we could get back on track if he gets 'help' although on the other hand he says he's no different to any other man, I maintain that if you are withholding intimacy and replacing it with pornography and god knows what else then it is different from other men who can enjoy porn alongside a healthy sexual relationship.
Sorry my thoughts are all over the place, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I chose him over other men when I was dating men who I'm sure would have wanted a healthy sexual relationship, now my self esteem is thorough the floor and I don't know what to do next.
We have a beautiful home, he is the main earner and my brain is shot!

Vivacia Fri 29-Nov-13 20:15:15

It sounds as though there are so many things going on here. I think that the most important thing though is to reassure yourself that he's not up to anything criminal and that your daughters and other children are safe.

Do you feel able to run your concerns past us on here?

Do you feel able to run them past your counsellor?

Vivacia Fri 29-Nov-13 20:16:07

Also, it worries me that he makes you second guess your instinct, judgement and feelings.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 20:29:40

Hi vivacia I appreciate your reply. I am pretty sure nothing is happening in this house but I have no idea what's going on online..

The dodgy web search was 'young sex pics' and h said it was to avoid seeing grannies because of course GILFs are prevalent in your everyday porn search arent they!?
he convinced me it was normal for men to want to look at girls in their late teens/early twenties and I half believed it because I look at my ravaged body and look at theirs and see his point. I discussed it in counselling and the counsellor said well if he likes looking at young girls and that's all you have to worry about it's not a big deal in the great scheme of things.
The weirdest thing was recently when friends stayed over, their 7 year old daughter was doing 'the crab' in her nightie and no underwear on. I walked in to the room and he appeared to be sitting opposite her watching but he got up and started bustling around ad soon as I walked in and I suggested she save the crabbing for when she has pants on, H said it didn't register with him as he sees our DDs messing about like that and he just thinks it's normal although we always tell them to keep their bits to themselves in company.
The other thing was he had a close relationship with his teenage stepdaughter: most of the time it was at her instigation but every time I left the room for example she'd be lying with her head in his lap or jumped up into his arms with her legs around his waist for ages and it made me uncomfortable but he says because of my upbringing I 'see peadophiles on every corner'
So you see I don't know what's normal and if I talk to friends I so t know if their going to think I'm crazy or that he's a danger when I might have it all wrong so I have on the whole bottled it up inside for a few years but it's in my subconscious all the time, affecting my dreams and my spirit. I am not the person I once was and it is slowly driving me insane.

Vivacia Fri 29-Nov-13 20:45:21

There's so much in what you say that I don't know where to start. I can see why you're confused and uncertain though.

I am pretty sure nothing is happening in this house ... I hope my question didn't cause offence, I just thought that this was something you were worried about, and can I may have read too much in to what you wrote.

I look at my ravaged body and look at theirs and see his point. I reckon that "most men" would rather be in a long term, sexual relationship with a real woman than look at stylised images of women acting as sex objects and often under duress or through lack of other options.

Whether right or wrong, I think that most men would feel feel very uncomfortable straight away if they inadvertently saw a 7 year old's privates.

but he says because of my upbringing I 'see paedophiles on every corner' Again, back to the undermining your instinct.

I think you're right to trust your instincts that something's not quite right here. Your husband's behaviour does sound inappropriate at times.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 20:45:26

If it's driving you crazy, whatever the facts, you can't live like this.

There are different issues here:

Replacing intimacy with a porn habit is highly destructive to a relationship and understandably affects your self esteem and respect for your husband.

As to the 'young sex' search, it's ambiguous. On the one hand I'm sure your husband is more than aware that most sites have a 'teen' category, so if he only wanted teens that would be the obvious thing to search for. On the other hand, he didn't explicitly search for 'young teens' or 'child sex' so it's impossible to prove what he was actually after unless you know what sites he accessed as a result.

The incident with the 7 year old is disturbing, but with nothing more concrete than a 'look' to go on, it's difficult to judge.

I do think the behaviour with the step daughter is bizarre, and certainly something I would expect him to discourage - establishing appropriate boundaries is part of the role of a father figure. But, families are different so what's acceptable in one is not in another.

I would go on your gut instincts, if you think there may be something off with a man you spend your life with, you're in a better position to sense that than anyone, even in the absence of hard facts.

BoosterBondageSapphire Fri 29-Nov-13 20:52:21

Please do not ignore your gut feeling, we have instincts for a reason.

If I was ever inclined to look porn or images of late teen/early twenties men I would have more sense than to type in "young sex pics" because I that phrase is quite frankly asking for images of underage nature. If he wanted teen, he could have typed teen. But he didn't.

Porn aside, if any husband of mine made me feel uncomfortable when around young children I would be running as fast as I could in the other direction.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 20:55:36

I look at my ravaged body and look at theirs and see his point

Honestly - you may not believe it but there are many, many men who are genuinely not attracted to teenagers. See them as children and are not interested.

I'm actually surprised myself how many men are not as I was sexually harassed all the way through school (this was the 80s - it was different world) - and went out a lot in London as a teenager and was thus on the receiving end of a lot of hassle from older men. I thought it was a given when I was younger. But actually I was wrong.

Your husband doesn't have a point he just has a particular fetish. Is he looking that great himself?

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 20:59:01

Vivacia I'm not offended its a normal question to ask, I feel confident on that front but how can I really be sure?
and yes twinkelstein Im starting to believe that if it's only my gut which is shouting these things at me that I still have to take notice.
All the 'little things' are ambiguous and when mixed up in an anxious mind they become huge. H believes I am a fool to throw a marriage and family away based on a mainstream porn addiction and swears he'll get help. He swore after the 'young' search that he'd never again jeopardise our family, home, relationship. When I confronted h about the search his first response was to ask me not to tell anybody because he'd have to leave our tone, he justified that panicked comment by saying its because my interpretation would be dodgy, not the act itself.
Today he only admitted his 'problem' because I literally caught him in the act. He was having a lie down as he felt ill and I went to see if he wanted anything and his behaviour was odd, as well as the fact he was naked and I see him naked about twice a year very briefly which straight away set the alarm bells ringing. I left him up there and came down to sort the kids and he came down and was crying saying 'I need help please support me' he said I just use one regular mainstream site every 8 days to two weeks and that's all it is. He blamed pressure at work and pressure from kids and exhaustion. I was relieved that he'd finally 'fessed up to something but I still feel angry about the constant rejection and passionless sex when we do have It.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 21:04:30

H is very handsome although he is developing a belly. I look rough because I have a muscle disease and have lost shape and tone plus I think that constant worry has aged me.
I too was an 80s teen and was always getting attention from men and I see it now with teenaged family members how men do a double take at them when we're in town, it makes my blood boil.
H is great with kids and is very popular in our town, I feel like his dark shadow sometimes!

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 21:21:13

Well I think he is his own dark shadow. They don't know him like you do.

His porn habit is particularly disrespectful given your illness,for which I am extremely sorry.

He tells you that you're a fool to end the marriage over porn because he doesn't want to lose his set up.

But you're entitled to end the marriage over porn if you want, indeed for any other reason, and anyway, it's not just the porn.

Swearing to get help for an addiction, actually getting help, and then acting on it are 3 separate phases. Getting help is the easy bit, changing your behaviour for good is very hard, and it's understandable if you've lost patience with him.

He is the fool - to self-destruct the marriage in the first place.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 21:37:35

I don't know where to start, it's Christmas soon, I never envisaged myself as a single parent and with my health issues I can imagine him having a stronger case as the primary carer.
he has just phoned me making all these promises, begging me to give him a chance. he's at work and I was just shouting and crying I feel gutted and ripped off. He wants me to support him but I will never know if he's kicked his habit which on the one hand he says is harmless.

Despite being popular and outgoing he is emotionally very reserved and he is saying that his repressed childhood has caused this problem.
His family are all very reserved, a massive contrast to my dysfunctional lot and I never feel relaxed in their company, they're all very naice, whiter than white but it always feels like a show with them all.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 21:45:22

I feel like he used me for the veneer.
Honestly though if you knew us. Everyone thinks I'm so lucky, he's thoughtful, romantic, does all the donkey work and is a 'fantastic father' I think some people ( my ILs and some of his friends) think I'm mugging him off because I don't look sick or disabled yet he does the bulk of everything in and outside of the home.

He tells me he loves me every day but only compliments me when I tell him how alone I feel, he uses all our shared hobbies as proof that we are compatible but I say it's nothing without sex or at least intimacy.
He is not 'deep' (or so I thought...) he never enjoys talking about real things it's all lighthearted and although he is very clever he never wants to theorise or philosophise and that is something that I got used to and just do with other friends rather than fighting for it at home.

Tbh I'm just rambling now and waffling on , I'm stuck, despite my having gut feelings and instinct, today is the first time he's actually admitted anything albeit nothing and I'm in shock.

tethersend Fri 29-Nov-13 21:54:20

Do you think he was crying because he wants help to stop watching mainstream porn every fortnight?

Because that does seem like quite an extreme reaction.

From what you've said, I too would suspect an unsavoury predilection.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 21:56:42

Promises are easy to make and hard to keep, particularly if it involves a fundamental change in behaviour. Even if he stuck to therapy it will be a long time before you know if he has managed to kick the habit, and anyway, I get the sense the damage has been done.

Plenty of people have repressed childhoods but are not porn addicts, so that's no excuse.

He wants you to support him, but who is supporting you?

You'd be best getting legal advice, or asking on the legal forum about custody, I'm not qualified to comment.

Grennie Fri 29-Nov-13 21:58:58

I think there are a number of clear red flags here. i would be worried about him around children, and I think you should trust your gut instincts.

Sorry you are having to deal with this.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 22:04:47

I don't give a toot that anyone else thinks - I think you're unlucky.
How relationships appear to other people is irrelevant, they're not in it.

Moreover I was ill when I was younger and I know first hand that people just think you're malingering.

It doesn't matter how thoughtful or romantic he is if he's constantly whacking off to teenagers. And I'm not someone who's hardline against porn. I don't like it, but a bit doesn't bother me. A habit like your husband I find as revolting as you do and a deal breaker.

If all these people who think he's Mr Wonderful knew what he got up to, that would knock the sheen off, eh?

Vivacia Fri 29-Nov-13 22:07:37

There's a lot about what he wants to happen next and not much about what you want to happen next.

There's a lot of blame put on your behaviour (e.g. ending the relationship over porn) and not much put on his (e.g. watching the porn in the first place).

I don't think his behaviour is consistent with someone watching 'mainstream' porn. Why would a man think he'd have to move out of the family home if somebody found out he was watching mainstream porn??
If he's genuine about seeking help, he'd let you look at his laptop, perhaps with somebody technical.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 22:12:19

tethersend I smiled a wry smile at your question. It does seem quite an over reaction, I think it's either unsavoury or a hundred times more frequent than he admits, honestly he is not the crying type, he kept trying to cuddle me and saying I love you and trying to get me to reciprocate but I feel so distant from him now, the last few days I haven't wanted to be in the same room as him without even knowing why.

I've tried to avoid this issue for so long I can't believe it's come to a head even though before I caught him today I was planning on bringing it into the open after Christmas .

Thanks Grennie for your kind words, I thought the red flags were all in my head until I came on here. Now I feel fucked cos I thought you'd all tell me to wind it in, watch. It with him or turn a blind eye and tell me that I am seeing peadophiles on every corner.

Twinkelstein nobody is supporting me, I'm too scared to tell anybody in case they think/say I'm mad. I haven't been very together these last few years.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 22:16:21

I agree, I was going to suggest that you get a specialist in data retrieval to look at the hard drives of your pcs. If he's in IT he can hide anything. That would be my first stop rather than a police station.

I also meant to say that avoiding grannies is a ridiculous excuse for the 'young sex' search - MILF & older etc have their own categories so there's no reason they would come up.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 22:18:14

Yeah, either it's several times a day or something worse.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 22:20:32

Twinkelstein nobody is supporting me, I'm too scared to tell anybody in case they think/say I'm mad. I haven't been very together these last few years.

You need support, you can't do this alone especially as you're ill. I'm so sorry that your husband is causing so much distress.

Is anyone at all in your life that you could trust with this? Someone from your own family? If not you could ask your GP for counselling - I think you get 12 sessions.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 22:21:02

I honestly don't know if it would knock the sheen off. Everyone seems so blinking permissive these days, even my own family are open about their porn use I used to 'use' it myself but he has put me right off. I feel like I am getting more prudish while everyone around me is more accepting, maybe because I had sex rubbed in my face from a very young she I have now as my name suggests become jaded and saddened by the whole thing.
Having daughters just makes it all seem ten times worse.

Vivacia I did look at his laptop and it seemed clean, I never get near his phone and I don't know how to look at the computer since he updated the OS.

now he's admitted something I feel like I don't need to know the detail, he has kind of settled it for me by only admitting the bare minimum after I've been feeling ill at ease for years. I don't know whether to just carry on as normal for a while 'for the sake of the kids' or to run out hysterically taking only the clothes we stand up in. due to my disability I can't drive and I don't want to leave our home comforts just yet and end up in a disgusting fucking b&b which is how I started my life and how I lived until I ran away from home.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 22:27:16

I do vaguely know someone in data retrieval he is a friend of a friend, we use all apple equipment (I'm a windows expert,) the guy said he doesn't know macs so well and if the OS has been updated a few times then it could be really tricky.
Due to apple's money grabbing ways the OS needs updating all the time.

No one from my family honestly we are all a bit fucked up it could go totally pear shaped if I involve them at this stage.
I might try counselling again, I have done a fair bit go it and I think unless I make some changes I'm just going over old ground.

I said the same to H about the milf/GILF/teen categories, he was spouting shit and we both knew it. I have learned over the years that there is no point arguing with an addict, both of you know they're lying and now he's admitted it I will have trouble believing anything he says ever again.

Twinklestein Fri 29-Nov-13 22:43:14

I think you need someone to support you through whatever decisions and changes you need to make. If you feel like you can't trust friends/family then a counsellor would be a good option (and it's a plus that they won't know him).

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 29-Nov-13 22:55:16

The other thing that puts me off taking this to a counsellor is their duty bound confidentiality policy: if I go in saying I'm worried about his predilections and I have two daughters is that they might report me to SS and then the trouble will really start.
I have no evidence of anything and I'm aware that I probably sound like I'm putting barriers up but I don't want to be the talk of the town. I have a very responsible job and I don't know what else to say. I am tired and spent.
Could I go to a counsellor for support with leaving my marriage without mentioning the elephant in the room?!

I was in the middle of a gripping and lighthearted book , I can't decide whether to pick it up and try to read or to just try and go to sleep. I'm meant to be meeting a group of friends in the morning with our kids but I don't know if I can have a normal conversation, they are not close friends and I feel like I am the dirty one with a big red arrow over my head.

Why did I get the fucking faulty husband? He ticked all the right boxes except one and now I'm realising that that missing tick was the most important one and I ignored it at my peril.

On the other hand I wouldn't be the proud mother of two beautiful children if I hadn't met him so it must have been meant to be? They are my everything and I so want to give them the best of everything.

PenguinDancer Sat 30-Nov-13 00:20:33

I'm not someone that has huge issues with porn in a relationship as a deal breaker. The feminist argument aside.

However your posts are flagging up my own feelings/thoughts in my last relationship. It all sounds so familiar. I later found out that he had serious issues with porn and sex and quite possible, almost likely, peado feelings which he danced around occasionally.

Get out. Get out now. You will gain more than you will lose.

Aussiemum78 Sat 30-Nov-13 05:25:31

Peodophiles come in all shapes and sizes...I think you need to be open to the possibility he looks at child porn and may be a pedophile.

Are you in the uk? Are there any child abuse organizations you could get advice from? Australia has bravehearts. Failing that, would you talk to the police and see what they say...

stillcryinginside Sat 30-Nov-13 06:28:38

Oh my love you must be feeling dreadful with all this going on :-(

Mainstream porn is not an issue with me, I can take it or leave it and have no objections whatsoever with people using it. But the lying and replacing it with lack of intimacy in your own relationship is no doubt going to make you feel like shit! And that's not fair of him.

I can totally understand your sensitivity to child abuse, I am very similar. I was abused myself when I was 11 and feared telling anyone for years. It does have a huge impact on you and I think makes you more vigilant (or paranoid as some may say).

In your position I would absolutely have to no if there was more going on, it's my role as a parent to protect my children to the very best if my ability. I feared telling my mum what had happend; a) because of the threats that my abuser made, b) because I was worried how my mum would cope and what it might do to my family and c) because I'd been brainwashed into believing everyone would blame and hate me. With all the will in the world I think most parents think their children would tell them, or they would know if something wasn't right or something was going on. My mum never suspected anything, I locked it away in a separate box in my mind and thought about it as though it had happened to someone else and not me so I didn't have to feel the pain. My abuser was a family man with 2 DC of his own.

I'm not trying to frighten you with the idea that your children are at risk but it is possibly something we need to consider however rare, can and sadly does occur in families.

Believe me, I love my DH faults and all and we've been through some tough times, but I can honestly say if I had the slightest inkling that he had a penchant for young girls or boys! I would physically want to hurt him. Yes, I know that's not right or the done thing but it would most likely be my first reaction. Of course, I would have to inform the relevant authorities of my concerns no matter how hard that would be. I don't think I could cope very well just throwing him on to the scrap heap not knowing if he was at risk to others. This is my own feelings due to my own personal experience. I still hate myself for not reporting what happened to me and not knowing if others suffered the same and I could have possibly stopped that from happening.

Good luck with whatever you decide xx

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 06:47:13

Stillcryinginside: yes I do feel fucking dreadful and I am sorry for what you have been through too. I know what you are saying is true but I just can't go there yet, I have been under so much pressure if I put anything else on now I will collapse under the strain. I have been through some shit times and I thought things couldn't get any worse.
I have barely slept and my husband is due home in 20 minutes. I have children to look after all day, social engagements to attend all weekend and a marriage imploding.
I have physical and mental health problems and I am so frightened. I wish I could fast forward to next year and have everything normal and safe.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 06:48:08

Ps don't hate yourself, you were a child xx

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 06:49:51

Penguindancer what did you do? How did you find out? Did you have children together?

stillcryinginside Sat 30-Nov-13 07:13:30

Jaded, don't you worry about me hon I'm fine, big and ugly enough to look out for myself now :-) x

You need to be thinking about YOU, you sound as if you're under a huge amount of strain. You can't think straight or function correctly under those kind of circumstances. Is it possible to put things off at all? Try to cope with what absolutely has to be done and let someone else take the strain of others? You need some time out, time to think and work things out in your head.

I've not thoroughly read through all your posts so unsure if you have anyone you can go to. A friend, relative maybe? You don't have to tell them what's going on just to go and chill for a little while and talk about other stuff. While your stuck in the middle surrounded by all this crap you're having to deal with you will be unable to get any clarity.

You deserve to be loved and respected irrespective of anything else that May or not be going on and your h is not showing you any of that IMHO xx

Vivacia Sat 30-Nov-13 08:26:04

I can see how you don't want to rock the boat, lose your lovely home etc but there's a potential danger to your girls and their friends here. Given the strain you are already under I think you should seek help and support in tackling this.

MissScatterbrain Sat 30-Nov-13 08:52:51

Sounds like a shit situation.

I wouldn't be surprised if your MH issues are linked to being married to him. There are so many things that is wrong - lack of affection and intimacy, the lies and deceit etc. These things must get to you and affect your self esteem and well being. The only thing you can change is HOW you deal with the situation - you cannot change or fix him.

The problem with so called mainstream porn is that constant use can lead to the need for more extreme and hardcore images. This is one of the reasons why I can never be ok with porn.

Your instincts are there for a reason and your job as a parent is to ensure your DC (and other children in contact) are safe. From what you have said, I very much doubt your H is safe to be around children sad

JaceyBee Sat 30-Nov-13 10:56:42

He's minimising it, he has to be. There's no way looking at mainstream, adult porn every 8 days to 2 weeks constitutes any sort of 'problem', although of course you don't have to like it or put up with it.

And yes, in my role as an NHS counsellor, I would have to seek advice from child safeguarding and possibly speak to SS if a client disclosed that her H had been looking at underage porn, that she suspected he may have unsavoury leanings and there were young children in the home. Child protection trumps confidentiality. In private practice it may differ though, I don't know.

Also, and I am trying to be kind and gentle here, I know you have a responsible job, are from a 'nice' neighbourhood and want everything to be ok and keep up a front for friends and family. I understand this, I really do. Unfortunately, this is a huge part of the reason abusers get away with it, because no-one wants to draw attention to it and they just sweep it under the carpet and hope it all goes away. But it doesn't. And it sounds as though this may be escalating. We are all here for you OP xx

Annonynon Sat 30-Nov-13 12:40:45

I'm so sorry jaded, it sounds awful for you sad

You said because of your illness your H does a lot, would you say he is the main carer of the dc? Because if he is then I think you'll need to be very clear on what you want if you do decide to end the marriage because it might not be as simple as just leaving with your dc

I do think you need to act, aside from anything else you deserve more than this. You deserve a relationship where you don't feel uneasy and see red flags waving, where you feel safe and loved and desired. Anything less than that is not good enough

You must have very little trust or respect left (if any) for your husband, it's sickening as well that he is demanding sympathy and kindness from you when he has shown you none, you really are worth more than this

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 14:07:10

anonnynon I am definitely the main carer he just does the bulk of the housework and shopping etc and I know that I qualify for home help type support with those things if were a lone parents.

He says the 'problem' he needs help with is not the porn, it's his inability to open up and share feelings. He was crying at the thought of upsetting me not because of the pornography. He says I am making a gross mistake about his 'interests'. I have just come for a lie down and said I can't discuss it anymore.

I have been with friends this morning and it is hard to concentrate and the kids are obviously picking up on my distress as they are pulling out all the stops. I feel really bad for them that their world is going to turn up side down.

I have spent all of my life waiting and praying for people to change, both parents, various partners and I had done a lot of 'work' on myself in counselling etc and believed that I had been discerning and chosen a good partner, I can't believe that I have fucked up so seriously.

Jayceebee thanks for the confirmation about counsellors' responsibility, I just wasn't sure as it's all based on gut feeling and incidents which may or may not have happened exactly as I saw them.

Missscatterbrain yes I believe that my mh is linked with the whole situation. No doubt about it but until I posted here last night I had convinced myself that anxiety /ocd thought patterns had made this into something more sinister.
Now my head is all over the place. But the fact remains that even if he is 'innocent' that he has deceived me and led me to believe that my needs were odd and that I m no longer an attractive woman.

Twinklestein Sat 30-Nov-13 14:35:03

You haven't fucked up, he has. He has developed a side that you couldn't have known about when you got married.

As regards the counselling, I defer to Jaycee's professional expertise, however I question whether one ambiguous search constitutes actively "looking at underage porn" as she put it. There's no evidence that he is.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 15:01:38

Thank you twinklestein.
I have been noticing more and more lately how stressed H appeared and I thought he had depression, he probably does tbh. I had said a few times that he needs to get help, he says that the children, my illness his job/hours etc have taken their toll. He d been short and irritable with me and the kids.

I have said a few times that he's not the man I married, all his reasoning makes sense, it has been a tough few years and I have the benefit of being able to open up about my feelings while he has worked hard to appear to cope.

Twinklestein Sat 30-Nov-13 15:08:38

It's equally tough for you though, more so as you're the one who's ill. You've not developed a porn habit & I don't really see how that helps him cope.

Can you afford a cleaner if you don't have one already?

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 15:09:25

I found a helpline called stopitnow which looks good of course they are closed on the weekend I will call next week.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 15:13:58

You're right twinklestein I have made so much of everything about me the last few years I felt that I should be looking after him too as we are a partnership. I presume he's trying to say that the pornography is an outlet and probably has been since long before we met.

I have thought about getting a cleaner but he's always been 'happy' to do it. He's very tidy and exacting. Now I can't consider it as I don't know what my next steps are going to be, suddenly every penny has so much more meaning!

Twinklestein Sat 30-Nov-13 15:25:03

Every penny that goes on a good cleaner is money well spent imo, & he can't really complain of being stressed if he refuses to delegate.

In comparison to what the counselling for porn is going to cost, or Relate if this is even salvageable, or divorce, it's small fry.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:12:16

I have to get dressed up and go out tonight and act totally normal.
I am having a bad day painwise as well but if u don't go out my brain will be whirring around!

One of my oldest friends is babysitter tonight, I might tell her some of what's going on. I don't know if i can tell the whole story yet, I might wait until I have spoken to the child abuse people next week. I really appreciate all comments and support.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:12:29

I have to get dressed up and go out tonight and act totally normal.
I am having a bad day painwise as well but if I don't go out my brain will be whirring around!

One of my oldest friends is babysitter tonight, I might tell her some of what's going on. I don't know if i can tell the whole story yet, I might wait until I have spoken to the child abuse people next week. I really appreciate all comments and support.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:12:33

I have to get dressed up and go out tonight and act totally normal.
I am having a bad day painwise as well but if I don't go out my brain will be whirring around!

One of my oldest friends is babysitter tonight, I might tell her some of what's going on. I don't know if i can tell the whole story yet, I might wait until I have spoken to the child abuse people next week. I really appreciate all comments and support.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:13:03

Sorry triple post, phone mishap

Twinklestein Sat 30-Nov-13 17:17:20

Definitely tell your friend - you don't have to go into the details - porn addiction on its own is common enough. It's very lonely to be dealing with this all on your own. Have a good evening.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:20:59

Thank you I will smile

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 30-Nov-13 17:21:05

Thank you I will smile

JaceyBee Sat 30-Nov-13 20:31:18

Twinklestein, I'm not saying SS would act on that little information, just that my safeguarding dept would advise me to tell them about it. Just to clarify! smile

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Sat 30-Nov-13 20:40:31

I have read all of this thread as it interests me. I had an Ex(D)P that put me in a similar position to you. I left as I discovered something about him I just could not live with. In your shoes I would HAVE to know one way or the other if it's mainstream or something more sinister, before I could make the decision to continue the relationship or not. Rather than thinking about getting into his computer which would be difficult because it would involve someone else and he may realise what has happened, I would try to secretly film him on his computer. This sounds a bit 'out there' or a bit OTT but consider how much hinges on this one piece of information! Bit devious perhaps but you have children. A friend of mine suspected her ExDH was abusing her daughter at bathtime so she taped the conversation using very unsophisticated methods but got all the evidence she needed on the first attempt. He did jail time as a result of her case against him. A little cam such as people use to check on their nanny or the carers for their elderly parents would be all you need to put your mind at rest or the opposite but at least you would know. I don't know the legality of this so I may get deleted but this is my honest advice to you OP.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 08:36:30

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay great username! I hadn't thought of the camera idea before. I don't know how I would do it, he has the phone, the ipad plus at work and the computer I'd have to put them in every room, how much does something like that coast??! How awful for your friend though that she actually found something. I will think about it.

I went out last night and had an absolute ball, I was silly and loud and laughed lots and lost my voice.
I came home reasonably early and sober and told my friend nearly everything, I included the ambiguous websearch and excluded the 7 year old girl observation and she was very sad but also incensed on my behalf.
She already knew that I haven't been raving about our services life but assumed that I'd come to terms with it. She said how she thought how beautiful I looked when I went out last night and was really jealous (promise it's not a stealth boast!) and she couldn't believe how ugly I feel and that he wasn't interested in me in that way

He came home from work this morning all affectionate and sorry and worried his job is going down the pan on top of our marriage as he spent most of the night crying and thinks he fucked up work and of course I feel guilty because I knew how much pressure he's been under at work with a bullying boss.

He often talks about how he was badly bullied at school ( it was a boys' school in the 70s) and nd blames ,some of his communication problems on this. My friend wondered if it was sexual bullying /assault and that he's actually looking at gay porn so I and him and he laughed and said that doesn't remember any sexual assault and isn't gay.
He kept asking me to make a decision and I said I can't yet he kept trying to cuddle me telling me he loves me.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 08:43:47

Not services life, *sex life. Typing fast in between childcare!

stillcryinginside Sun 01-Dec-13 09:05:52

In your post you say your H tells you he loves you everyday. Is it a genuine 'I love you' or habit? Tbh, whether he loves you or not makes no difference if he's acting unsavory.

You say that sex/intimacy has declined and occurs about once every 6 weeks. Your posts don't make clear if h is usually the cuddly type as he is being with you now (trying to hug you all the time). If he isn't why do you think he's doing this now? Has he ever feared losing you in the past and if so was he trying to hug you all the time then too. Or is this more a sign of desperation that he fears he really could be losing you this time or is there more to his fears that he's afraid May about to be revealed re his porn addiction?

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Sun 01-Dec-13 09:19:02

Try to filter out the 'white noise' of what he wants. You would not be being selfish to concentrate on your own needs and your own needs alone now. Self preservation and all that. He is a grown adult and able to control/change what he does. Even if the suspicions remained just suspicions only, do you want out anyway? If so, save yourself the dosh on the tech stuff and make a plan.
The ignoring you in preference to porn is dissociating from you on the most basic level. If you want to live your life free of all that, make a life for yourself away from it.
I had a similar thing happen to me with an Ex. There were several 'tells' to his behaviour that alerted me and one day I found an order form for stuff that left me in no doubt whatsoever what his interests were and it was as bad as it can get IMHO. When tackled he said it was merely 'curiosity' but I considered he was too old for it to be just that ( he wasn't 17 if you get me ;) ) I wish I had just left though, rather than it being obvious that I had found the form as he thought I had been snooping when I hadn't been, I was looking for something else and had put the 'tells' to the back of my mind by that stage! If only I had shown more dignity instead of getting upset as I have always felt I showed weakness/sadness at the loss of the relationship when actually I wanted to batter the B!

MissScatterbrain Sun 01-Dec-13 09:25:20

He tells you he loves you.

But his actions show no love.

Actions speak louder than words.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 09:31:44

Stillcryinginside no we have always been affectionate and say I love you a lot but the affection is always very chaste and it's only ever me who tries/tried to ramp it up to a saucy level.
Sex every six weeks generally happens after I've said I can't live in a sexless marriage. Lately he's been the one to instigate it but I feel as though it's because he knows I am subconsciously detaching from him. When he instigates it he's often wants full works a massage and fucking soothing music and it goes on too long especially when it doesn't even appear that he's that turned on. I say I just want a bit of cheeky sex or a quickie sometimes , I'm knackered and don't want a whole night of lurve making but he wants it to be romantic.
Reading that back makes me feel like I'm the one with the problem I should be grateful for a man who wants the full works but it sounds better written down than the actual event.
When we have sex without the massage and candles it's perfunctory and there are never any sparks. He is silent every time and mostly has his eyes closed, sometimes I catch him watching I the mirror but if I see he quickly looks away.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 09:33:26

* The ignoring you in preference to porn is dissociating from you on the most basic level. If you want to live your life free of all that, make a life for yourself away from it.*

This

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 09:33:54

* The ignoring you in preference to porn is dissociating from you on the most basic level. If you want to live your life free of all that, make a life for yourself away from it.*

This

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 09:34:30

bold fail

HawtChocolate Sun 01-Dec-13 09:47:04

The sex between you sounds grim.

He has a huge problem, doesnt he? But whether it is 'just' porn addiction or something more sinister is the question.

What are you planning to do?

I think you have to try tinget perspective. If you have feelings or suspicions that he is a paedophile, get out, for fuck sake.

HawtChocolate Sun 01-Dec-13 09:47:55

*try to get perspective

Sorry posted too soon.

Netter tosort this mess out from a safe distance, rather than share your bedwith a man you have even the slightest suspicion may be a paedohphile.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 10:40:48

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay H said the same thing as your ex re just curiousity, he also said he was looking for sex tips for our relationship! Sex tips, ha! He is late 40s and had several longterm relationships before me, what a dweeb.

Hawtchocolate you are right re the distance, I don't really know how to get it. I have used all my work leave already due to stress (I didn't want to go sick for various reasons) I don't have family nearby and there is nobody I can think of who'd want to temporarily out me up with two small children. I just think I have to give it time rather than distance.

I can't make a decision overnight and I can't take action until I know my rights but I feel like I have checked out of the relationship. My friend was saying why rush? It's not as though you're having sex at the moment.. I don't know...

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 22:15:10

This is a message from my husband at work I'm so confused I understand but I will change. I have a problem which I will sort out but I do NOT have any awful secrets and it's the thought that I've made you think that that hurts the most. I don't know why I haven't come clean in the past or why I've been so stupid, I bitterly regret it now and the thought that we may lose everything makes me so sad. I will do everything in my power to win you back again and prove that I am still the person you fell in love with. I will continue to help you in any way I can with your health issues, please don't shut me out of your life though.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 01-Dec-13 22:17:39

I meant to add some punctuation!

This is a message from my husband at work, i'm so confused :
"I understand but I will change. I have a problem which I will sort out but I do NOT have any awful secrets and it's the thought that I've made you think that that hurts the most. I don't know why I haven't come clean in the past or why I've been so stupid, I bitterly regret it now and the thought that we may lose everything makes me so sad. I will do everything in my power to win you back again and prove that I am still the person you fell in love with. I will continue to help you in any way I can with your health issues, please don't shut me out of your life though."

Botanicbaby Sun 01-Dec-13 23:08:37

*The dodgy web search was 'young sex pics' and h said it was to avoid seeing grannies because of course GILFs are prevalent in your everyday porn search arent they!?
he convinced me it was normal for men to want to look at girls in their late teens/early twenties*

Am sorry OP but I have warning bells ringing here too, as do you, trust your instincts I say. No matter how much he is trying to cloud them.

Withholding intimacy and replacing it with pornography does so much damage to the other person in the relationship, it is no wonder you feel shot to pieces!

I don't think your earlier experiences are making you more sensitive to things either. Any computer-savvy person does not need to use that search term btw. Nor is it 'normal' for men to want to look at girls in their late teens/early twenties. A lot of girls in the porn industry that age look younger anyway so god knows how old the ones are that he's searching for.

I must sound really harsh but all the bullying at school/job going down the pan stuff/notes proclaiming how 'he will change' do not wash with me. i really think that you need time and space to think OP, without interference from him!

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 03:19:22

* Botanicbaby* you speak a lot of sense. I have tried to minimise it for so long and half hoped that he would suddenly become amorous but it has not changed my me iota. I do need time and space to think and I don't know how to get it.
My life is work and kids. I have no parents to speak of. I have an addict father and a toxic mother and no contact with either to preserve my sanity.
I don't dare go away and leave the kids: I have gone away a few times on my own but if I'm going to be embroiled in a custody battle at some point I don't think flat going away will work in my favour alongside your mh nd physical health issues.
I'm so exhausted after a day with the kids that night time isn't the best time to think.
I also have an issue with insomnia so am shattered most of the time. H doesn't always work nights so from Tuesday he will be around in the evenings too.

I have lived my whole life without guidance from anybody else and it's time like these I just want a big cartoon hand to come down and pluck me out of the situation, take control and fix it up better for me.

I sick and tired of fixing things and managing everything on my own. Even though H is very hands on at he I often despair of where his brain is and feel so fucking responsible for everything. Life is hard sometimes, I thought we could Make a good team and it turns out I have been alone the whole time.

redcarrot1 Mon 02-Dec-13 07:22:43

I hate to say it and don't like it personally but I think it is, in fact, very normal for men of all ages to want to look at women in their late teens/early twenties. Page 3 and any gross tabloid will tell you that. This is why I think the 'young sex pics' search your DH carried out is far too ambiguous to read into or use as evidence. His crap reason (grannies), could be to just hide his embarressment over being caught out using that phrase.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 07:28:35

redcarrot1 page 3 was exactly the example he cited.

redcarrot1 Mon 02-Dec-13 08:07:29

I think his message to you about changing seems quite earnest and everyone deserves another chance. If you split with him further down the line at least you'll know you gave him every opportunity to turn things around.

Vivacia Mon 02-Dec-13 08:36:26

We can agree to differ on the "most men want to look at naked 16-25 year old women". However, I also think we all agree that there's a difference between that and looking so often it means you withdraw sex from your partner.

Secondly, I think that there's two separate things going on the. There's the problem of whether to give him another try but before that I think there's a safe guarding problem. The latter needs dealing with first for both the safety of the children you know and because you need to make an informed decision about whether to stay with him or not.

You probably can't imagine him abusing your daughters or their friends. But I can't help but picture them as adults remembering inappropriate looks, touches, comments etc and being confused and hurt and damaged because of these memories.

Vivacia Mon 02-Dec-13 08:50:36

I think his message to you about changing seems quite earnest and everyone deserves another chance. If you split with him further down the line at least you'll know you gave him every opportunity to turn things around.

This might all be true if it was "just" a porn-use relationship problem. It's not, the OP has other concerns.

MissScatterbrain Mon 02-Dec-13 09:02:17

I think his message to you about changing seems quite earnest and everyone deserves another chance. If you split with him further down the line at least you'll know you gave him every opportunity to turn things around.

This is minimising the situation here - it is not just porn. Op is worried about their lack of intimacy and poor sex life and more worryingly, suspects there are child protection issues. These concerns need to be taken seriously.

MissScatterbrain Mon 02-Dec-13 09:03:45

And he is saying all these things because he is crapping himself and wants OP to shut up and sweep it all under the carpet.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 09:17:04

To be fair we had the conversation 6 years ago where he said he'd change and asked r another chance that's when I found the 'young' search. Because of my background and his minimising I thought I'd give him that chance and it quietly eroded my self esteem.
I also came on here then to discuss it and was flamed and felt a complete idiot so never mentioned it to anyone except in counselling it until this happened on Friday

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 09:19:08

Well when he said he'd change in 2008 he also said it was a one off but he'd never jeopardise what we have so he'd never look at porn again. My reaction apparently shook his up too much... Bollocking Bollocks. I'm at work now and so fucking angry.

Vivacia Mon 02-Dec-13 09:46:40

I feel angry for you. I hope you're ok.

Twinklestein Mon 02-Dec-13 09:48:02

I'm glad your friend was so supportive.

It seems that even when he does instigate sex it's on his terms not yours - which is insensitive and continues the theme of prioritising his 'needs' over yours sexually. I put needs in inverted commas because they are wants rather than needs.

I can understand that your husband would be hurt if he genuinely isn't into the worst interpretation of 'young sex', but the problem is what he is up is up to is quite bad enough on its own.

It sounds like you have had enough OP, and as these recent promises to change appear to be on top of past unkept promises of the same, it may well be too little too late.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 09:58:56

Thanks vivacia and twinklestein
I can't concentrate at work I thought it would be a good distraction but I have too many friends here and can't trust myself to be normal around them, plus he is at home so I can't go home.

Too little too late is how it feels.
It is not the first time I have caught a partner out with sexual lies either, the first time was a long time ago and hurt me badly, this time it feels as though the main blow was six years ago and now is just reopening the wound
It makes me feel as though there's something wrong with me to keep attracting people like this. They have all been either impotent, hypersexual or had addiction problems now I seem to have the whole combination rolled into one attractive package.
Honestly I thought I'd hit the jackpot with him and so did everyone else.

Vivacia Mon 02-Dec-13 12:10:29

You know, I think even if you'd had twice as many boyfriends with these problems it wouldn't say anything bad about you. I think the only issue is if you choose to accept inappropriate behaviour.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 12:40:08

I know. I keep feeling galvanised a then confused. I have accepted too much already. I gave an ultimatum a few months ago and it didn't make a bit of difference. I have told 3 friends now and all without exception have suggested couples counselling. I don't know if I'm doing 'us' a disservice by not considering it. Probably need to go on my own.

Vivacia Mon 02-Dec-13 13:03:00

I gave an ultimatum a few months ago and it didn't make a bit of difference. 'Ultimatum suggests an "If Than" outcome. So far you've mentioned a change being expected 6 years ago and another a few months ago. Now there's one promised this week. An ultimatum only works if there are consequences involved.

When your friends suggest couples counselling are they in full possession of the facts?

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 02-Dec-13 13:31:30

One is in possession of most of the facts excluding the 7 yr old girl incident which if I try to say it out loud just makes me feel as though I'm unhinged!

the other two just know the mainstream stuff which frankly is easier to tell. They all know my background though and why this is such a big deal for me even without the weird suspicion.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 07:11:12

Hey I'm still no further forward. I have contacted the child abuse helpline for support bug have to wait for reply due to high volume of calls.

H reckons he had a healthy interest in sex with previous partners then the last two weren't interested so he turned to porn then we got together and it was normal again then old habits crept in and he started using again.

He has now said he will contact a therapist but needs to know I'll be there for him. The trouble is I don't know if i will be able to spend the rest of my life always wondering or snooping.
For example I have started snooping on his Google history. there are obviously times when he uses private browsing and times when he doesn't, I have seen that on Tuesday night he was googling porn addiction.

Another thing that is strange is that I thought I'd start checking bank statements to see if I can ascertain which sites he's been paying for and I can't find any statements, he has religiously kept every statement for as long as I've known him and now hey are not in either of the places they normally are.

I don't want to get into crazymaking ripping the house apart trying to get information about something I already know but at the same time I don't just want to sit on my laurels.

This a horrible situation for me with anxiety anyway.
I don't believe I can do it for much longer
H is adamant we are not splitting up over this.
I just want to move on but I don't know how to get from here to there.

I just want someone to come and fix it for me and the kids to pick us up and take us away and to fast forward to a better time.
I don't even have a mum I can escape to for some time alone or separation.
I have talked a bit more than one of my friends and she said she would feel the same way as me. I just wish I'd talked about it sooner. I have been reading about porn addicts but all I can find is Christian websites where it's all about the couple working together with God to save the marriage or I find pseudo scientific articles about how it affects the brain or articles for the addicts themselves and there seems to be nothing for me! (selfish woman)

I like our whole relationship is based on a lie, I feel so sad about all the nights out where I have worn lingerie and dressed up and looked my best and we have just come home and he has got straight to bed and gone to sleep.
I feel so sad about the hope I had that he would spontaneously notice me and alight a spark in us both and when I have been aching for a bit of slap and tickle. He convinced me that he was prudish and shy when all along he was seeking out God knows what and sorting himself out.

I'm waffling Again I'm just tied up in knots. He keeps asking me for answers : what are you going to do? I miss you, don't go, I need you to support me etc and I feel alternately angry and numb.
FUCK it! So another thing he hates is swearing. Fucking cunt.

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 07:47:41

Tell him you can't make any long term decisions until you have the whole picture and have processed your own feelings and thoughts.

If he is really serious about change, he would start going to therapy with or without your support. Instead he is using this as a carrot to dangle in front of you.

And speaking of support - where is HIS support for you, you are the betrayed party, the victim in all this.

The bank statements thing is very dodgy - with internet porn being free, he must have been paying for services e,g webcams, meet ups, escorts etc.

FuckyNell Fri 06-Dec-13 07:52:55

You can look up years of statements on line now at my bank (natwest) so hopefully you can do the same op.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 08:22:04

Fuckynell I I don't know his online login details. He has two accounts his current and a credit card. His log in details used to be saved on the phone but santander have changed their security settings.

Missscatterbrain I dread to think what he's been doing! when I suggested that it's more than just viewing porn he was vehement in his denial but tbh I don't believe a word that comes out of his effing mouth, he's like a stranger to me.
I do believe he's using the therapist as a carrot. I told him it's not my problem and there's nothing I need to do to make anything better.
He does run out of money very fast, we have a joint account which both our wages go into for bills then we each take a monthly allowance into our own account. He does have an expensive phone contract plus car finance whereas I don't have any large personal outgoings. I spend a lot on fripperies and his tastes tend towards expensive gadgets although he doesn't buy them every month.

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 08:35:17

Again if he really wants to make amends, he should hand over all login details for his bank and credit cards - refusal to do so will tell you all you need to know.

Vivacia Fri 06-Dec-13 08:41:21

If he's serious about "being adamant" that you're not splitting up over this then he will give you full access to his bank account details, emails, browsing history etc.

I'm concerned that his constant contacting you will make it very difficult for you to see the wood for the trees. I think he needs to give you time and space.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 08:57:59

Vivacia I feel the same. We are both in the same house there's no fucking escape. I tend to go out when he's home as I can't sit in the lounge with him, he goes to bed earlier so I wait up until he's gone to sleep. Luckily due to my health and pain issues I have zip and link beds so although we share a room we currently have separate beds.

I haven't asked for access to accounts etc, we share all our technology apart from phones so I have access to his email, Facebook etc which leads me to believe he had secret accounts which I will never know about unless I use torture and interrogation!

He works long hours away from home in IT so there's so much scope for underhand stuff, I'd never get to the murky bottom.

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 09:02:15

Why have you not asked for access to accounts?

Surely you need to know what your money is being used for? what he is spending family money on?

You don't need to know everything but you do need to take control of the situation - especially with the possibility that there is a child protection issue.

Please do take action.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 09:20:35

I haven't asked for access to accounts because I am only presuming that he has separate email accounts and there is no way I can prove it. It will just be me saying you have other email accounts and him saying 'no I haven't' I don't know how I can argue with that, that's probably why it's gone on so long because all he does is deny and I don't have the strength to argue that black is white.

Also it wasn't until last night that I though of checking k his statements to see if I could work out what he's doing and that was before I went to bed, he was out and I didn't want to speak to him at 11 when he got in and he left at 6 for work, I haven't seen him to ask him for statements.

Part of me thinks it's too raw and I don't want to know the other part of me is waiting to hear from the child abuse agency to hear their take on it.

I told him that I know of someone in data recovery and he said that's fine, take all his technology and they won't find anything dodgy.

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 09:28:16

By accounts I mean bank/credit card accounts - not emails.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 09:45:29

I will ask him re bank accounts later when he gets home tonight. I honestly didn't think about it until last night when I was reading about porn addiction.
I hate this and trying to work and bring children up and operate in society is too hard too much and my brain keeps shutting down.

Vivacia Fri 06-Dec-13 09:56:21

I think that not dealing with this, and having it all on your mind, could be causing your difficulty with coping at the moment (not all of the other things).

I think you're going to put this to the back of your mind and cover it up. I understand why you'd do this, but I just couldn't, just couldn't given the nature of your suspicions.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 10:06:25

I can't cover it up which is why I'm starting to tell people. I have been having nightmares about it for a long time and now he's partially admitted to something it's added grist to my mill, I just can't do it all at once.
I keep flitting between inviting the police in and trying to take baby steps.

My mental health has been weak for 4 years which is why I am moving so slowly now, it's hard to see from the outside but I am not settling for this life anymore I just can't do it fast.
I had a couple of quite severe depression episodes in the last two years where suicide was high in my thoughts and those thoughts are coming back again this week and it's a huge struggle to stay on top of it.

I don't want to end up in hospital and having even less control than I do now.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 10:07:44

Vivacia it has been in the back of my mind for years and I have tried to ignore it it has driven me mental and I can't do it anymore. My subconscious has become the conscious.

Vivacia Fri 06-Dec-13 10:10:40

All you can do is move at the speed you can. I do wonder just how much this might have exasperated your mental health problems. If you're having suicidal thoughts, is it worth going to your doctor?

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 10:25:26

Sounds like its all too much for you to bear, no wonder you have been ill and is struggling - all that secrecy and deceit sad

I think the only way to free yourself is to tell people your worst suspicions - the police etc will take control and you can then begin to detach yourself from the whole thing.

I agree a trip to the GP would be a good idea. You need outside help.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 10:26:40

I believe that H's secret and dissociating from me has had a huge impact on my mental health I don't think that my physical issues have helped but I know it's him that's caused the problem.
My friend's husband believes I should give Him a chance to get therapy because he's been under so much pressure from my various illnesses.

I can't go to the doctor I'm top scared of what they'll do. I won't ever act on the thoughts but whenever I'm feeling low or under pressure it is on my mind.
It was a regular tool that my parents use to get their own wayd so I have grown up with suicide as a natural thought process when things go wrong.

I can't and won't leave my children with a mum who topped herself but at the same time I feel such a failure and frightened of everything that's happening / going to happen that I just have this constant thought : just end it all its easier than facing anything.
It's a pile of shit. I can't deal with the kids and I can't tidy or get any of us dressed, we are all full of colds and I just want to cry on my own and crawl into a cave.

I have been through some difficult times in my life and this takes the biscuit.
I know it seems like I'm just moaning but I am moving just wading through treacle.

MissScatterbrain Fri 06-Dec-13 10:34:56

The wading in treacle makes me think you might be depressed and in need of ADs - you do not need to tell the GP everything if thats what you are worried about.

Your friend's husband does not know the full story - so you cannot take his advice. Your H is very fucked up, with really vile views of women and sex - I am not sure if therapy will work for him especially if he only going to use it as a way of getting you to shut up and put up.

Your H's views of underage sex are very worrying and you cannot expose your DC and other children to him - it is asking for trouble.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 10:57:11

Ads always make my anxiety worse. I might contact the police anonymously and ask for advice, that's why I'm waiting to hear back from the child abuse people they said 3-5 working days and I contacted them on Tuesday I think so it shouldn't be too long. I think I will take my cues from them as I don't know where to start on my own.
I will ask arsehole for bank statements etc but I'm scared of what I will see.
I'm such a fucking fool. I thought I had everything and now I have nothing, although I have my children that's the only positive thing. My brain is jelly my body is fucked my husband's a possible pedophile.
Me the kids have been decorating the tree in between me posting on here and me trying to hide my tears.
Ho fucking ho merry fucking Christmas!!!

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 12:02:39

Well a timely response, here's the reply from 'stopitnow' below.
I guess the next step is to phone them to discuss further. I just told them all the things I'd said here.

My friend's husband is a psychiatric nurse and I wonder if he thinks my fears are based in anxiety?

Hi there,

Thank you for getting in touch with Stop it Now! and for your e mail. You have obviously been concerned about your husband’s sexual interests and boundaries for some time, and I hope you find my comments below helpful. However, your situation sounds complex, and I would encourage you to call our confidential helpline to discuss your concerns in more detail (see below). You don’t have to give your real name or to identify yourself, and you may find that talking things through with us helps you clarify your thinking.

Of course it is difficult to know for certain what someone else might be thinking or feeling about children and/or sexually. Nevertheless, as responsible and protective parents and carers we cannot afford to wait to have our suspicions confirmed or disproved; we must air our concerns and protect our children in the first instance. My impression is that you have done exactly this, by talking to your counsellor and to your husband, albeit that you seem not to be reassured by your husband’s response. I wonder, is there someone else you could talk to, who knows your husband well, and whom you trust? Their perspective might be of value.

The next step that parents can take, if they remain concerned about another adult’s behaviour, is to try and establish some kind of contract or expectations about what’s OK and what’s not OK. This might include, for example, use of the PC (where, when, how often etc), the viewing of pornography, physical boundaries with children (both one’s own and other people’s), involvement in the children’s intimate care, privacy in the family home etc. Often people’s partners will agree to this kind of ‘contract’ and for their behaviour to be challenged if they do not keep it up. Might your husband agree to this kind of thing? If not, this raises the issue of how much respect he might have for you and your feelings – the kind of thing that couple’s often explore in counselling.

Another strategy that might be helpful is to talk to your children. I’m not sure of their age, but empowering children and building their resilience is one of the best ways of preventing child sexual abuse. It is important that children know about what’s OK and what’s not OK in terms of physical touch and private parts of their body; and that they know they can share any worries or fears they might have with a trusted adult who will listen and respond to what they say. To this end, depending on the age of your children, there are some good books that raise relevant issues in a non-threatening and helpful way. For example, for younger children the following books may be relevant: â €˜Come and Tell me’ by Helen Hollick (ISBN: 1-903285-29-1); ‘Your Body Belongs to Youâ €™ by Cornelia Spelman (ISBN 978-0-8075-9473-5). Likewise, if you access our website, you could download the Child’s Play leaflet, which you may find helpful.

I would also recommend that you visit our website – www.parentsprotect.co.uk – which provides a wealth of information to help parents protect their children from sexual harm. Perhaps you and your husband could take time to look at the website together (you might want to familiarise yourself with the site first) and this might help the two of you discuss your concerns, and how best to safeguard your children.

I hope some of the above information is helpful. In essence, your task is to keep talking to your husband, your children, your friends, your counsellor and, if appropriate, other family members too; to build your children’s resilience and sense of safety; and to endeavour to set appropriate boundaries on other’s behaviour (notably your husband’s) towards them. Having ensured your children’s safety, and if you are inclined to do so, you then might feel you have the emotional energy and freedom to explore some of the issues in your marriage that are troubling you.

Finally, as noted above, please remember that you are welcome to call our confidential helpline on 0808 1000 900. You don’t have to give your real name. (If you do call the helpline please quote reference no. 215521 so that we can link your call to your e mail).

Thanks again for getting in touch and best wishes.

The Helpline Team

Stop It Now! Helpline - 0808 1000 900 Mon - Thurs 9.00am - 9.00pm Friday 9.00am - 5.00pm

____________________________________________ To: Stop It Now! Original Message Sent: Tue 03 December 10:00

TheAwfulDaughter Fri 06-Dec-13 12:35:45

I find it very hard to believe that a tech savvy bloke with an iPad, a Mac and a job in IT would think he would have to search for 'young sex pics' in google to avoid the obviously massive category of GILF porn eyebrow raise

Anyone who thinks searching 'young sex pics' is innocent is very misguided and you should not listen to them. All of the 'top videos' on PornHub, XHamster, YouPorn and the ilk will be of young girls. If he wanted willowy 19 year olds, there was no need to search for 'young sex pics'

To a fellow IT savvy person- it seems like he was trying to pull up underage girls on google search that may have gone under the radar and hosted publically on the grimmer sites or image boards (where people can upload ANYTHING anonymously)

That google search back in 2008 would have been enough to tell him to get out.

TheAwfulDaughter Fri 06-Dec-13 12:37:00

I'm sorry you have so much on your

TheAwfulDaughter Fri 06-Dec-13 12:40:55

I'm sorry you have so much on your plate Jaded sad I feel awful pointing it out instead of comforting you about your health issues- but I don't feel like this google search has been kicked off about enough.

Even if it was innocent (which I doubt)- a tech savvy IT working bloke MUST have known that a search like that had every chance of pulling up some dodgy horrific photos. But he still searched it.

jadeddazedandconfused Fri 06-Dec-13 13:48:41

theawfuldaughter I did make a huge fuss at the time with him and periodically bring it up in argument or when I'm feeling vulnerable but I was too embarrassed to tell anyone else plus he was so convincing & my boundaries have been skewed since infancy.
I had a massive visceral reaction and couldn't differentiate between jealousy and horror.

I came on here and posted on here and was pretty much told to get a grip. I tried to conceal my worries even from myself because I wasn't convinced of my own perceptions. And that's why we're still 'together'.

I couldn't Trust my own mind and everyone else is praising him for being an amazing husband and father, so supportive and people tell me he's a saint and no other man would have managed all the things he's done to support my physical and mental health problems.

We enjoy lots of the same interests and I tried to ignore the crap sex life because previous bad relationships had been based in sex so I thought at this time I was being mature and looking at the bigger picture. It seems the opposite of I can't see the wood for the trees: I was looking at too broadly at the wood and didn't notice any trees at all!

Twinklestein Sat 07-Dec-13 12:20:18

Hiya OP, I'm sorry how awful this is for you and that you're feeling so low. I understand that you feel ADs make you feel more anxious, they don't work for everyone.

This no man's land with your husband is the most stressful and exhausting thing possible. You looking for proof and not finding it, he having disappeared the accounts, which of course makes you fear the worst. It's a nightmare. In your position I think I would just say this is it, it's over. No more negotiation, time to change, counselling, that's it. If you are feeling suicidal it's time to end your marriage not your life.

I can only imagine how stressful the last few years must have been. There's nothing worse for physical health than stress. Once you get away from him you may find your mental and physical health improves.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 07-Dec-13 21:25:54

Hey twinklestein you are so kind.
there is a part of me which is already feeling stronger. I still haven't had any space or time to make any clear decisions. He has given me his account info and there is nothing untoward he says why would I pay there's loads of free stuff online.

Re the questions about his sexual proclivities he has invited me to get his various gadgets checked out and says he only views porn on his phone and wouldn't do it on ipad or computer where me and the children use them.

He keeps trying to kiss and cuddle me and was on about planning a fucking date night next weekend!

I feel that it is over but I feel in limbo, I feel guilty about the children, I feel guilty that I'm not supporting him. He's asked for a glimmer of hope and swears he's not letting our family break up.
He says neither of us can afford to run two homes and blah blah blah. I haven't done anything about seeking legal advice just because it's so much effort. My friend said make sure the solicitors don't rip you off, I swear if I had money I'd just go and put a deposit down now and deal with the rest later.
I just wish he'd fuck off
and disappear so I don't hav to make any decision.
I'm lying in bed in total agony which also weakens my ability to think and plan.

I definitely won't be committing suicide though. I have been through shit times before, the difference is I only ever had myself to think about now there's two little people to consider . I have survived some awful things and started afresh. I am strong a decent determined when push comes to shove but in the past I didn't have this disease to manage.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 07-Dec-13 21:26:21

Hey twinklestein you are so kind.
there is a part of me which is already feeling stronger. I still haven't had any space or time to make any clear decisions. He has given me his account info and there is nothing untoward he says why would I pay there's loads of free stuff online.

Re the questions about his sexual proclivities he has invited me to get his various gadgets checked out and says he only views porn on his phone and wouldn't do it on ipad or computer where me and the children use them.

He keeps trying to kiss and cuddle me and was on about planning a fucking date night next weekend!

I feel that it is over but I feel in limbo, I feel guilty about the children, I feel guilty that I'm not supporting him. He's asked for a glimmer of hope and swears he's not letting our family break up.
He says neither of us can afford to run two homes and blah blah blah. I haven't done anything about seeking legal advice just because it's so much effort. My friend said make sure the solicitors don't rip you off, I swear if I had money I'd just go and put a deposit down now and deal with the rest later.
I just wish he'd fuck off
and disappear so I don't hav to make any decision.
I'm lying in bed in total agony which also weakens my ability to think and plan.

I definitely won't be committing suicide though. I have been through shit times before, the difference is I only ever had myself to think about now there's two little people to consider . I have survived some awful things and started afresh. I am strong a decent determined when push comes to shove but in the past I didn't have this disease to manage.

jadeddazedandconfused Sat 07-Dec-13 21:29:11

He feels like a stranger but friends keep going on about counselling, I feel that counselling would just prolong it and I would still never trust him, I feel that counselling would be papering over the cracks for another God knows how many years!

MissScatterbrain Sun 08-Dec-13 08:53:42

Please do not feel guilty.

He is the guilty one.

He is the one who is breaking up his family with his actions and lies.

He is the one who should be supporting you.

He is the one who made these choices, not you.

I would make a list and do one thing at a time - ie, see a solicitor who offers free half hour consultation.

Have a look at this useful blog

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 08-Dec-13 09:49:32

Morning Missscatterbrain thanks for your advice. I have contacted a family member who works in the legal profession. I have emailed, we are not particularly close and I don't feel ready to discuss it over the phone.
I have also looked at the link you posted and bookmarked it, my relative's speciality is not family law but I thought he'd be a good place to start, he might help me cut through some of the quagmire and I will systematically work my way through the list you sent plus create my own list: it's all in my head what I need to do but it's all so huge.

It's really strange being out and about bumping into friends and neighbours. I am being quite short with people rather than having to be deceitful and risk getting upset and over sharing!

I'm back at work tomorrow which is a mixed blessing.
I have confided in one colleague who I trust implicitly so at least I have someone to talk to if it gets too hard but they are all good work friends, invariably the conversation turns to Christmas plans, family chat etc. I am fortunate that H is on nights over the festive season so it's easier to talk about crimbo just in relation to me and the kids.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 08-Dec-13 09:56:47

Oh and H now says that the 'young' search was curiosity and he wanted to see what was out there and was shocked and horrified and has never done it since...

This is why I feel I can't continue with him, he keeps changing his story and it's exhausting keep asking and going over the same old ground.
He agrees to if the boot were on the other foot he would feel the same way as me.

He says his story keeps changing because my interrogation makes him nervous and he's trying to say the right thing to please me but keeps tripping over himself. I must confess I have been most intrusive and pressurising with my questions.

Anniegetyourgun Sun 08-Dec-13 10:20:09

he's trying to say the right thing to please me

Not, I notice, the truth.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 08-Dec-13 10:28:51

Indeed anniegetyourgun.

MissScatterbrain Sun 08-Dec-13 10:28:56

Exactly Annie hmm

OP, you do sound a bit more determined. You can only do this in stages and I am sure once you know where you stand legally, you will feel much stronger and better informed about what you need to do next. This stage is so hard as you have so much questions and uncertainties.

Take things easy today.

jadeddazedandconfused Sun 08-Dec-13 11:22:07

I am taking it easy, it's difficult because normally I'd be focused on Christmas prep now but I can't get my shit together. I have long distance relatives and would normally be getting the parcels ready now, I had also planned to make a lot of gifts this year, I have all the gubbins but none of the motivation!
And the kids are running riot wrecking the house while I continue wading through the treacle!

TheAwfulDaughter Sun 08-Dec-13 19:40:45

He curiously wanted to look at 'young sex pics'? Normal men aren't curious about what comes up under 'young sex pics'

And not being funny, dazed- but I'm quite sure nothing would come up if he googled it apart from standard porn of questionably (but 18 plus) women. There was probably nothing for him to be horrified at. It's just bullshit.

He knows that the image search is on your mind, he is changing his story to something more acceptable.

Saying he googled 'young sex pics' out of curiosity but was HORRIFIED AND NEVER DID IT AGAIN is a case of 'admitting to something so he can't be blamed for something else'. Minimising. He was searching for underage girls but wasn't aroused and just curious and actually was horrified, so all is well? hmm

He has just admitted to searching for underage porn.

Why haven't you called the police

Twinklestein Sun 08-Dec-13 21:32:52

Friends tend to say what they think good friends should say. They've only found out recently about your difficulties and therefore encourage you to persevere. But from all that you have said here, it's too late. This has gone on too long. You could do counselling every day for a year and you still wouldn't trust him at the end of it.

As for the changing stories on the 'young sex' issue - it just gets worse and worse! Who the f*ck is curious about 'young sex' apart from pervs? There are 1000s of girls who look incredibly young on mainstream porn sites, there's masses of stuff if that floats your boat, no reason to go looking for more. It's hard to believe that an adult man doesn't understand that the truth is what is needed here. Unless the truth is too damning...

Twinklestein Sun 08-Dec-13 21:36:32

Awful Daughter - would it be possible to get a IT specialist to trawl the pcs first - rather than taking them straight to the police? Do the police have methods not available to civilians?

Because if there's nothing incriminating on there, the husband is going to get on his high horse and stay there, and the OP will feel foolish for wasting police time.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 09-Dec-13 03:44:18

Twinklestein you always hit the nail on the head. That's why I was speaking to guy who works in data recovery. He specialises in PCs though and we have macs. Also he said due to the number of OS updates it might be impossible to find.
I do think about contacting the police but the stress of having a swat team ransack our house, e distressing our children and for all the neighbours to witness is more than I can bear. I am not ready to take that on.

It's probably a lot easier for you and on the outside looking in than it is to be here with the kids and his constant protestations.

TheAwfulDaughter Mon 09-Dec-13 12:12:30

Jaded- I know it's really hard. But as outsiders, the black and white of it makes it see how sinister it could be.

Where does he view his porn? With a MacBook or a Mac? Would it be possible to look at getting a key logger installed to monitor any searches?

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 09-Dec-13 16:46:16

Hey says it's on his iPhone and he has invited me to get all the gadgets checked out although he could be calling my bluff.

Twinklestein Mon 09-Dec-13 17:18:51

You're so right Jaded, it's easy for us to give advice, I can only imagine how hard it must be to living through this.

I'm not sure that I believe he watched it all on his phone, although I suppose that would help him hide it from you, because you wouldn't get the full effect on such a small screen. And yeah, he could well be bluffing.

I don't where you are in the country, but I know a couple of data recovery places for Macs in London.

I'd have thought he'd be less likely to be watching dodgy stuff now he knows you're onto him, that's why I think it's so important to look for past activity.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 09-Dec-13 17:44:13

I agree re the small screen. He is minimising as usual because me and the children use the ipad and the mac. Yuk yuck yuck
I have started to get the facts together re my next steps. I'm fee empowerment at the same time as fear.
I bumped into a neighbour this morning who is a (not close) friend who invited us all round for Christmas. I just responded vaguely with lots of smiles and then cried on the way to work.

Twinklestein Mon 09-Dec-13 18:03:38

How kind of your neighbour! Would that help take the pressure off? (Or make things worse?)

Let me know if I can pass you on details for Mac recovery places.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 09-Dec-13 19:25:12

It was an invitation extended to my husband as well! I'm not near London at a) but thank you. I have looked online but it all seems to involve sending the hard drive away and of course there's the ipad too, I can't just randomly posy hundreds of pounds worth of equipment to Internet strangers (although I have no problem baring my soul to them on my!)

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 09-Dec-13 19:25:34

* on mumsnet not my!

Twinklestein Mon 09-Dec-13 20:58:03

In that case I don't think you've got any alternative but take them to the police if you want to know for sure.

jadeddazedandconfused Mon 03-Feb-14 16:14:25

Hi I thought I ought to update as so many of you had been kind to offer advice on a very sensitive issue. Thanks so much for helping me to keep going.
I did contact the police after speaking to a couple of other agencies. We spoke on the phone and then I had to go in for an informal interview.

They said that my information on its own isn't enough of a red flag for them, they certainly wouldn't initiate searching IT equipment without much stronger evidence and they have done a background check and told me 'off record' that there is nothing on him at all (nor me for that matter!)
they advised that young is very different from children in a porn search and pretty much repeated a lot of what my husband had said to me in defence.
They can't act on somebody looking 'in a funny way' (their words not mine) at children in real life unless there was other corroborating evidence. They have made a log of all we discussed but the policeman I met didn't want to file a formal report at this point as he said it could potentially ruin my husband's life if he is innocent.

Both the police I spoke to are male and both stressed that on it's own his porn searches are not unusual and are indicative of a general problem with porn rather than a specific interest in children/underage sex.

The child abuse department have been notified and they will decide whether to take any further action which would be a social services referral and any safeguarding actions required from there. I am still awaiting the outcome although he said if there's no cause for their concern I won't hear anything from them.

The police and other agencies advised that reporting it was the right thing with regards to the safety of my children which is reassuring but there is nothing else I can do at this stage unless I pay privately for an IT company to take our equipment. I don't have that sort of money and have involved the police so I feel some relief that I have dealt with it in the right way at this point.

We are still separated but unfortunately stuck in the same home which is uncomfortable but not permanent so I'm struggling through day by day and hoping that there will soon be a resolution in our living situation.

Thanks

Jaded.

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