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My wife just had an affair(645 Posts)
Sorry I am not sure if men can post here but I feel like I need the advice of some women as I am so confused.
Background I have 2 children with my wife, 9 and 3 and we just got married in July. This Saturday after a number of suspicions I decided to look at my wifes email and found a number of emails from her boss, also a good friend of mine. Most were of his body but one fully naked holding his p****.
I confronted her about these and at first she said he sent it by mistake but after time admitted that she was seeing him but it isn't an affair, it was only groping and kissing.
She said it ended a month before we got married but after reading her texts it started up again and they were continuing right up until the weekend.
They have organised trips to be on with work colleagues, parties and events so it doesn't look suspicious that they are away together but every time they have used it to snatch kisses and time together.
There messages discuss being together and also when I am away so they can book hotel rooms. They both insist there was no sex and whether there was or not I don't feel like it should make a difference.
I am so upset as we only just married and she said her vows with him in the room and he was there giving me a hug congratulating me after. I feel so let down and deceived and believe it would have become sex if I had not confronted them.
I don't know what to do, I want to leave but I am worried about the impact on my kids and whether I can ever be intimate with her without thinking of them together.
I don't know whether to let her off because there was no sex or consider it worse because there is so much emotion involved.
I asked her to show me the entire phone history so she threw her phone in a river. I now don't know how close to our wedding it ended, started again, whether they spoke on the day, whether they spoke since I found out and what actually was sent.
If I am not meant to post on here being a man then I am sorry but if anyone has any advice then I would love to hear it.
Does she seem sorry? The fact that she threw her phone in the river rather than let you go through it is not a good sign that it was 'only' an emotional affair. Is her boss also married?
I don't want to advise you to do anything as I don't think it's right to mess with people lives, however personally if my partner didn't seem particularly sorry or contrite I can't see how I would forgive them.
Of course you can post here
I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this. You must be in pieces you poor man
And I'm sorry to pile more onto your shoulders but you know that they have had sex don't you? These are two people who send naked pictures to each other and spend the night together in hotel rooms. Do you honestky think that they haven't had sex?
To be honest though, does that really matter? The lies, deceit, unfaithfullness is all there
I thinkyou need some time apart so that you can think and try and get your head straight
Once again, I'm so sorry
I'm sorry you're in this depressing situation and that you've had such a nasty shock. I am very dubious that there was 'no sex'. First it was 'sent by mistake', then 'just kissing, then 'groping'.... fairly classic lies from a cheat, unfortunately, and there's invariably more they're not telling you. If you hadn't found out by accident, it would still be going in full swing. Expect that's already occurred to you.
In your shoes I would not be leaving. Instead tell your DW to exit herself from your family for a while so that you can get your head round it all and work out what you'd like to do next.
I am so, so sorry to read this! I don't have great advice to share, but it is definitely OK for men to post here.... and I know from reading here that the advice given to women is to LTB and really show him what he's giving up, and don't take him back unless he really works hard, consistently over time, to show remorse and change his behavior. So maybe you can change the pronouns and use the advice yourself? Also - you can be a wonderful father to your Cs without sharing a home with their mother. Again, I'm so sorry. Your pain really shows in your post, and no one deserves this!
I also think they have dtd - you don't go to the trouble and expense of booking a hotel room for a snog.
Sorry you are going through this.
FWIW, I firmly believe that couples can come back from infidelity, but they both need to want to.
What Cogito said. Do not leave, you have done nothing wrong. Ask your wife for space so you can think and decide whether you want to remain in this marriage (personally, there's no way I would). Any impact on the kids will be of her causing, not yours, even if you decide to divorce. She doesn't respect you or her family and never will.
I hate to be the first to say it but ALL cheaters minimise. FACT!
So they can say it was no sex but I don't believe them and don't think you do either.
This is currently a huge shock for you and you need time for it to sink in and decide what you want. And you can only do that away from her.
Is she primary carer for the kids?
If so then you will probably need to move out for a while.
If it's both of you then ask her to leave for a while so you can get some head space and think about what you want from life.
I know when my exH cheated I was going to try. He said something and I just basically could not get over the fact he had been seeing someone else. The deceit the dishonesty etc.... I found after saying I could, that I actually couldn't forgive.
Get some space and figure out what YOU want.
I'm really sorry this has happened to you. Loads of us on here know exactly what you are going through.
As above. There was probably sex and the affair is probably still going on. The throwing the phone in the river said it all.
Regardless though, the lies, deceit and infidelity would be enough for most people and it's up to you to decide if you can forgive that (considering they were probably still at it before and after your wedding).
I'd be out of there like a shot, but only you can decide what is best for you and whether you stay or leave.
Seriously, ask her to leave for a bit.
What's the position with house/jobs/kids?
If you're SAHD there's no reason you should leave, FWIW, and also no reason why she shouldn't end up paying support.
Phone in the river?
Sorry, OM, she's at it.
X-post - soooo, not the first.
And don't fall into the trap of 'hysterical bonding' (google it).
So many of us do this and it doesn't help a tiny little bit.
One thing I have learnt from posters here is that the 'sex' is irrelevant in a way.. She is a liar. You have been lied to whether they shagged or not. Focus on that as the truth will out eventually. Lying and cheating in whatever form is a deal breaker for me. The fact she threw her phone away says all you need to know, black and white 'evidence' won't change it just hurt you more.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
Really sorry this has happened to you op
From your wife's actions I would say it's probably as bad as it can get. They've obviously had sex but getting her to admit it will be difficult so I wouldn't even bother. You'll never be able to trust her and you will live the rest of your marriage looking over your shoulder.
Time to make some choices I'm afraid buddy
Phone-river-game over, I'm afraid. It tells you it all. She is having an affair with him and I'm with the others, they've had sex.
I really drew breath when you told me that he was at the wedding. That realisation must have really hurt.
As far as your wife is concerned, she is the one who needs to be making all the moves towards reconciliation if that's what she wants. She isn't doing that which speaks volumes. I'd be taking legal advice if I were you.
Is he also married?
I couldn't continue a relationship in these circumstances.
The advice is the same for a man ora woman.
Thank you all so much for the considered responses. So they have never stayed in a hotel room together, they have talked about booking one when I am away in December for work and next year. The only time they both stayed at a hotel was separate rooms when other work colleagues stayed there.
Both appear to tell exactly the same story, flirting gone to far, fantasy by text and that they don't know how far it would have gone.
At the moment I feel really sorry for her, I went home to end it last night but her uncontrollable crying destroyed me. I also found her trying to take an overdose of pills but I feel she wanted me to catch her doing this.
I have gone through different emotions from wanting to ruin his life to today coming to the realisation that a whole bunch of this is my fault. I am not perfect, I have a good career and the life and soul of the party, she has to live in my shadow and this is her excitement.
Her remorse is not fake, I have never seen anyone upset like this and it is breaking me apart. I am so scared for her and the kids if I decide to separate.
The worse thing is we have been together for 11 years, we are / were perfect together, so happy and I don't think I will ever meet someone like her again. By punishing her with separation I might be punishing myself for the rest of my life...
...but I can't get the thoughts out of my head, my thoughts of them in a car park snogging and groping each other. My thoughts of them sending pictures to each other. My thoughts of them discussing a future together. My thoughts of our wedding day, her telling me her vows with him in the room knowing the secret.
I am broken, heartbroken, destroyed. She is the love of my life and my world but I don't know how life can ever be the same again...with her...or without her.
A separation at this stage would not be as a punishment. You can't get the thoughts out of your head. That's why you need the space to breathe and think, in order to get past the initial shock reaction. She may well be remorseful but it really doesn't help you to think clearly if she's threatening suicide, sobbing loudly and other essentially manipulative stuff. If you try to carry on as if nothing has happened, you will make yourself ill. If you suppress your anger and hurt because you feel sorry for her, it will re-emerge a little further down the track and the resentment at how you've been treated will be overwhelming.
BTW... even if you book 'separate rooms' in a hotel, they have corridors.
I'm sorry, but what you have just described in your last post describes my husband's reaction exactly.
It's not remorse she's feeling. It's humiliation, shame and embarrassment. She's worried about what her friends/family/the neighbours are going to think about her. She's worried about losing the security of home with you.
My stbxh had a breakdown when his affair came out, 7 months on he's still on ADs and receiving CBT to help him deal with how his affair has made him feel about himself.
He begged me to give him another chance.
She doesn't deserve your pity. This isn't a one off thing, this is something calculated and planned and she knows exactly what she has been doing, and she knew what the risks were whilst she was doing it. She isn't sorry that she did it, she's sorry that she's been caught.
She doesn't deserve you. It's not your fault. Even if you're not perfect (and no one is).
Oh yes, and my stbxh also threatened suicide. Or rather he kept telling me how concerned the GP was about the state of his mental health and were worried he might "do something stupid".
All designed to manipulate and exonerate.
UpsetHusband - your wife throwing her phone away really doesn't tie in with her saying it never went beyond fantasy. And they could quite easily have already agreed what the 'story' would be if discovered, so just because they say the same thing doesn't make it fact. Her uncontrollable crying could be more about the fact that she's been found out and she is more concerned about things coming crashing down around her - you might throw her out, her kids may hate her later in life, the other man might not want anything to do with her etc etc.
How far it went - and I still maintain it has gone further than they are admitting - is merely the tip of an iceberg. They did this to you behind your back, clearly neither of them giving a damn about you or your children, even around the time of your own WEDDING.
Please take Cogito's advice. Ask your wife to leave the family home, spend some time thinking things over and looking after your children.
Sorry for what you are going through.
As others say, I don't think this is true remorse. She is (to quote Rhett Butler) "like a thief who is not sorry he stole, but who is terribly sorry he is going to jail."
As yourself - what was she like just before you found out. Was she "crying uncontrollably" over how she was deceiving you? Thought not.
Shes not crying for what she did for you, shes crying for herself, because shes selfish, she wasnt thinking of you or your family, she was thinking about herself.
They had sex, she can deny and so can he but they did, they had plenty of chances, cheaters take the chance.
Balloon has it right, if she werent crying before you found out, then those tears arent for you.
I am really sorry for your situation OP. My ex also claimed that his affair hadn't been sexual and they had only kissed once. And all those nights he didn't come home was because he fell asleep at work. Oh and the second mobile phone he hid from me was an oversight, he needed it for work ( he worked for himself) oh it went on and on. He killed any chance of getting through that by lies. I couldn't believe the amen out of his mouth.
Anyway, your wife's distress is entirely of her own engineering. The phone in the river is entirely to prevent you from discovering the truth.
Follow Cogito's advice and good luck.
Oh OP your post made me cry - I'm so sorry you're going through this, and of course you're very welcome here (I'll let you into a secret, I'm a woman but I'm not a Mum, but I've had so much support here)
My married sister is having an affair, has been for the last 6 months. She was eventually forced into telling her husband - so she told him that she 'met someone last weekend' and had feelings for him. Sadly, it was then down to his friends to tell him the real truth.
I think, from reading similar threads here, that most cheaters minimize their confession to the least they can get away with. So if she knows you know about the texts, she can admit that but insist nothing else happens. IF it was true that they had only texted, and nothing else had happened, I would have thought she would want to show you her phone to prove her story. The fact that she threw it away speaks volumes.
He was at your wedding. That alone is so utterly disrespectful of you and your feelings.
I agree with Cogito - take some time for yourself, allow yourself to feel angry and hurt. You don't have to make any decisions about your future just yet, leave that for a bit until you both calm down a bit. Nothing is over yet, so don't worry about that for now. Your priority right now is to make you feel better so you're better able to deal with what is to come.
And keep coming back here - everyone is very supportive, you will get some excellent advice here.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
They have had sex.
She's sorry she was caught.
I would think she did want you to catch her taking those pills.
She has treated you very, very badly.
I don't know what to advise, if it were my dh, I don't think I'd be able to forgive and forget this level of deceit. I think maybe you should ask her to move out as others have said, to give you some space and time to think.
What a shit your wife is being.
Don't let her get away with saying its not an affair. Of course it bloody is.
I wouldn't believe they haven't had sex.
It was disrespectful of her to throw her phone away and ruin your chances of ever getting to the truth. She had no right to do that to you because you deserve the truth.
Her actions with the phone would tell me that the truth is BAD! If there was nothing to hide she wouldn't have thrown it.
I am so sorry to read your posts.
Your wife is not grieving what she has done to you and her family, but the loss of her new exciting relationship, coupled with shame and embarrassment and the worry of what you are going to do next.
Dont feel sorry for her. She has chosen to seek excitement outside your marriage, with her boss and your friend. Not a great friend, and not exactly a great wife either!
I am sorry to say that I think you need to play hardball here. She has been deceiving you for a long time, and now she is continuing to manipulate you by trying to top herself. Regard this as her acting to an audience: you. Rather than being angry with her, she wants you to worry about her. She is really very attention seeking, isnt she?
I suggest you ask her to leave while you sort your head out. Why should YOU have to leave the family unit? She caused this. Let her stew a little and ponder her actions, while you work out whether you still want to remain married to her.
They probably were having sex. They usually are.
If you don't love her any more then I would leave.
just read your second post. I would suggest counselling.
Don't let her make this your fault. She is the one who cheated, there is probably more you don't know and will never know. Throwing the phone into the river is not the behaviour of someone who wants to offer full disclosure.
I would also ask that she goes to the GU clinic with you for some STI tests. You both need this.
She's crying because of the shock of being found out and the panic of not knowing what you will do about it.
Definitely send her for sti checks.
The only way you can even begin to work through this is if she sees what is at stake here.
She needs to leave.
Where to? Not your problem. But it has to be open ended so that YOU get to say when you feel ready to try again.
Meantime she has to be whiter than white.
She won't be. She's been having sex with him for sure, the fact that they haven't actually booked a room together that you know of is at best irrelevant, and at worst, makes it worse as they'll have probably snatched moments.
This is not your fault. She needs to leave, the children stay with you. Get child care to cover.
She's only sobbing hysterically and threatening overdose because she has been caught. She's not remorseful. She's probably worried about the future.
Like I said, someone who throws a phone into the river to prevent their husband knowing what had been going on is not 'just' flirting and does not want to heal their marriage. She needs to be totally honest with you.
She'll do it at first through drip feeding - yes, we had oral sex once. It'll then change to: we had sex once, then it'll be we had sex more than once. And you'll feel worse and worse OP.
You WILL meet someone better. It'd be hard to meet a worse and more treacherous woman as this.
don't believe a word of her supposed remorse. she is lying through her teeth, actually though, are even her teeth her own?
The only way of regaining this situation is to make her leave and make her see the consequences of her actions. If you let her stay, it's carte blanche to this time and the next, and the next.
Im sorry I have no words of wisdom but I hope you find someone who loves and respects you enough to stay faithful.
And your welcome here anytime.
Would the Not Just Friends book be a good suggestion? I've not read it, but it's usually cited in times such as these.
You both need your own space to digest what has happened and your future path. Being together muddys the water. It makes your heart rule your head and at the moment you need to find the balance. Your children need balanced parents more than they need dad living with mum!
Your wife needs to leave to give you the space you need to come to terms with what's happened.
The phone went in the river because there is something on it that she is afraid you'll see. If she is telling you the whole truth surely she would want to prove to you that what she is saying is everything there is to know.
Hotels do indeed have corridors but the facts of what happened really don't matter when its obvious she's hiding something from you. She's admitted kissing, cuddling and touching, there is only one thing left to hide. Whether they had sex or not is actually irrelevant when they were planning behind your back to do this.
She needs to leave and take her guilt, misery and threats of suicide with her.
Get her to move out. (If you are concerned that she might attempt suicide then inform her GP, family and friends)
Your focus needs to be your feelings and what you want to do next.
Don't let this situation be brushed under the carpet because you are afraid to deal with the enormity of what has happened, or because of your wife's crying etc. Do not be rushed to decide and move on, take your time.
The only thing that stopped the secret relationship was you finding out.
Please tell someone you trust and who can support you in real life.
Whatever you do, please, please make sure you are not manipulated you into staying in the relationship because of the children. She did not consider their well being when she was having an affair.
You deserve better.
Thanks so much again, some or you are certainly a little more matter of fact than I am. Also I do have a feeling she was manipulated, I know what this bloke is like, he has a track record.
She said she threw the phone because she was so embarrassed by the messages that she couldn't bare for me to see them, messages discussing what they would do to each other, even leaving their partners for each other.
This is without doubt the worst situation I have been in and the most difficult decision I have ever had to make. Thank you all for your support.
"I do have a feeling she was manipulated" to paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies (?) Well, she'd want you to think that, wouldn't she?
Ultimately you need to try and forget about how 'remorseful' she's being, you shouldn't have to worry about her right now. Think about what you need, if it's space, take it- whether you decide to get through this together or to separate. You need to be sure either way for the sake of your children and dealing with her guilt as well as your hurt probably won't help you.
She is manipulating you. The bloke did not force her to engage in a relationship, she is responsible for her actions.
Yes she was 'embarrassed' by the messages because they would have revealed the true extend of her involvement and you would not be falling for her soft focus version of the truth.
Hope you manage to make a decision you are happy with. I can't imagine that continuing the relationship will be easy but perhaps counselling will help.
RE "messages discussing what they would do to each other" it sounds very much like they were both willing participants so even though you know what this man is like there is still evidence that she was very happy to go along with it until she was found out, so beware. she has form too.
Well, if he has a track record, I presume she knew about his track record too, and could that perhaps be why she chose him? She knew she would not risk some love struck man coming running to set up home with her?
Your wife does sound very manipulative with the faux overdose and the uncontrollable tears.
Asking her to leave for a bit isn't ending the marriage, it doesn't have to be final.
I strongly advised you get STI tests, especially if he has a track record.
Throwing the phone in the river speaks volumes, I'm afraid.
You do seem to be indulgent of her, as though it isn't her fault. It is your relationship she has cheated on and you she has betrayed. She wasn't forced into it. Credit her with more autonomy.
It is a horrible situation and your decision making will be extremely hard which is even more of a reason to have space from each other.
Please also remember that we are all human and we all make bad decision, mistakes and get wrapped up in escapism. None of us are perfect! It's what we do afterwards that shows the real person.
It is a case of can you ever trust her again or is the hurt to much. If you decide to make a go of it or go your separate ways she will always be the mother of your children. It will take years to overcome so pace yourself and don't do anything to rash. Good luck op
OP... quite a few of us have been right where you are now. It hurts like hell but you can't imagine life without her. You want to believe she's remorseful, nothing happened in the hotel and so on. You desperately want to think she was an innocent party, lured away by some Svengali character. Betrayal like this operates on a visceral level, the grief is overwhelming and you'll be thrashing between 'I can't do this any more' and 'I want to forgive' for a while. Again.... you need space. You are not going to make good decisions while you're in this acutely stressed frame of mind.
Is she a child?
No. She wasn't being manipulated by this man. Even if she was flattered by him initially, she didn't need to respond and have an affair with him.
She didn't come to you upset about what he was doing/saying did she?
I know at the moment you are just trying to rationalise what this woman you love has done, but seriously, she knows exactly what she was doing.
Totally agree with cupcake78, pace yourself. There can be such a temptation to solve things, paper over the cracks and act like it never happened but actually you don't need to do anything yet. If you hide it away it might come back to bite, harder.
I'm so sorry that you have been treated like this. It is appalling that he was at your wedding when they were carrying on an affair behind your back. I am astounded that she could stand there and lie to your face about 'forsaking all others'.
If she were truly sorry, the honest thing to do would have been to come clean and ask for a chance to prove that she is committed to you. But she didn't do that and, if you hadn't discovered the emails, they would still be together. So she is only sorry that she got caught.
I do think they were having sex and I agree that you need to get an sti check. Don't have unprotected sex with her before or until she agrees to get tested too.
It's too soon for you to be able to make any long term decisions. You need some time to think things over and you need some space away from her to do this, at your own pace. If she says she will 'do anything' to make it work, then just tell her that you only want her to do one thing - move out for a while and give you space and time. That is all you require from her.
If she agrees, then she may be genuine about wanting to try again. If she objects, then she is still only thinking of herself and is not going to treat you well anyway.
They have had/are having an affair. They have definitely had sex. He is sending her explicit photos of himself. They have got together and concocted a story. She is now manipulating you, crying/overdose. I truly cannot believe she intends to take her life but she knows it would tie you in knots to see her like this. Is she used to you giving in to her? I don't mean to come across as brutal but you know all this don't you? She is conniving and manipulative. I wish you well in whatever you decide to do
I think at the very least you need to tell her to leave the family home and stay somewhere else for a while. you have every right to space and time to work through this and make your decisions without her influencing you. so sorry you are going through this.
I disagree. If she was sorry and wanted to save the marriage she'd have walked away from the other man. Cut all contact with him. Found a new job, kept her mouth shut and committed completely to her family.
However she has been found out so its time for personal space, complete honestly, a lot of communicating. Acceptance on both parts that a new relationship with her husband would never be the same as the old one and to literally start over again after a break. Only time will tell if it works out.
You clearly still love your wife and wouldn't like any harm to come to her whether its a cry for help or not. Despite the betrayal she's done, she's still the mother of a 9 and 3 year old. I know people will say that she wasn't thinking of them when she was messing with this bloke but they are totally innocent in all this. As harsh and unfair as it sounds, you'll probably be best moving out.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Same here KingRollo.
It's the lies and the betrayal more than the sex, to be honest.
My sympathies OP, she isn't remorseful IMO, she is crying because you found out, if you hadn't found out the affair would still be carrying on, of course they have had sex, but even if they hadn't the deceipt is just as bad,
Don't blame yourself for one minute, none of this is your fault, of course he's not manipulating her, if this was the case why didnt she confide in you instead of sending each other naked pics etc etc
Really sorry but like others have said, you need to kick her out for a while to get your head round this, is the other man married?
So sorry your going through this Op
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
OP I'm so so sorry you're going through this.
Crying and threatening to kill herself? Exactly what my ex did. All THREE times he cheated on me. They're not sorry that they've cheated, they're sorry they've been caught.
You need and deserve a clean break, to cast off all this nastiness otherwise you'll never get over it. Especially if they work together.
I really feel for you OP, but you sound very strong and emotionally mature, which will hold you in good stead for the turmoil, no doubt, ahead of you.
You have been deceived and are now being emotionally blackmailed into feeling guilty for believing this.
Do not blame yourself ( unless you know deep down you may be REALLY at fault).
Maybe your wife (stupidly/greedily) thought this wild affair would lead to something more permanent with the Boss/ friend but now finds herself alone defending her actions to you.
If I was was your wife and I wanted to return to my former life with you and the kids I would be on my knees apologising, begging forgiveness and volunteering to cut all ties with this other man.
Has this happened?
If I was a total self serving Bitch, with no feelings for my life partner I would be weeping and wailing with self pity at being found out.
Good luck with whatever you decide, but please be strong and trust your gut instinct.
Ffs, she threw the phone rather than you see all the depraved things they said they'd do to one another, leaving you both for each other?
Get that creature out of you house TODAY!
You will spend the rest of this doomed relationship wondering all the things they said.
Every idiot knows that we invent way worse in our imagination than is actually irl. This will haunt your every waking moment, every email she gets, every text.
Get her out. It's the only way to potentially save yourself and maybe (but I doubt it) your marriage.
You have to (even though you can't actually feel it) show her that you have the conviction to go all the way and get rid of her in a heartbeat, AND take the kids as a consequence of her betrayal.
Any less than this? She'll consider it as getting off with it and she'll do iit again.
She looked you in the eye and made vows in front of him and your friends and families and in front of god possibly and lied. She has no morals, no conscience, nothing of any worth to a proper relationship.
They have had sex mate, sorry.
Little to add to the majority, OP. I don't buy for a moment that they ain't physically at it. Even if that were so, the lies, deceit, disrespect and lack of consideration would have me packing my bags or hers. I'm fortunate not to be tied by major strings like kids or mortgages - in no small part by (cowardly) design. So, I can understand why you're seeking advice before acting. Hard to tell if she's an immature 'player' or if her heart lies elsewhere. Either way the signs ain't encouraging. If she's not prepared to try to honour her vows via determination or counselling - assuming you're prepared to afford her that opportunity - then I think you need to prepare to move on. The sooner you do the sooner the chances of finding someone who appreciates you,,, and being single is better than what you have now. I wish you well.
Oh,,, about posting here. There may be a tiny minority of women resenting our presence, but overwhelmingly they seem to appreciate a male perspective just as I/we can benefit from a female one. The better the genders understand one another, the better the communication and the happier we'll be. Stick around. You'll get more appreciation here than you're currently getting at home.
Saying she was manipulated is very close to saying this man sexually abused her.
She wasnt abused was she, she had sex with him willingly.
Shes sorry for her self because could old foolish dependable husband now knows and holds the relationship cards.
Dont let her treat you like a mug, she wantingly, knowingly and with excitement cheated on you. She was not manipulated.
Only one being manipulated here is you, you better wise up to it.
She is looking for you to forgive her and make it better I suppose.
Next she would make you believe she had nothing to do with it (you are already saying that she might have been manipulated into it....)
I think you need time apart to sort your head out. Don't promise anything to her. Ask her to move out.
It will take long time for you to come to the right decision.
Separation will keep you away from her manipulating you into feeling sorry for her.
If she feels suicidal she should go to see her GP. It should not be your responsibility to be finding her with a bottle of pills in her hand...
Good Post Slang
Personally i'm happy to have men here as yes it does offer an alternative perspective, but also i'm all too aware that many men don't have anywhere to offload and question and talk through issues as women more naturally do.
Often a man is more isolated by his own pride than a woman who will confide/show vulnerability and give/receive care/concern/empathy.
Mumsnet is such a fab resource and support that it's really great that men can access it too.
Btw OP, does your wife use mn? Is she likely to see this thread?
I am so sorry for you that you discovered this. Your wife is having an affair. You don't talk about leaving your partners when you are just flirting. She has denied and minimised, which always happens when they dont want the truth to come out.
What happens next depends on the both of you. Do you want to save the marriage? Does she want to save the marriage? can you forgive her for her actions?
There is nothing worse than betrayal by the one person that you thought you could trust in the whole world. It takes some getting over.
I think that your wife will need to move jobs as she cannot continue to work with this man if she wants to save your marriage. That will be one of the things that she needs to do.
OP I hope this isn't all overwhelming, but I hope you listen to the majority view. All unhappy families may be different, but all affairs do seem to be the same. Sex is denied, and then the truth drips out. Think about, when do adults who fancy each other, kiss and send each other naked pictures not have sex? (And don't think "when one is in a relationship" as that clearly isn't stopping them).
She is upset because she's been caught and a situation that she has been controlling and manipulating is suddenly out of her control. That would make anyone hysterical, it doesn't unfortunately mean she's remorseful.
Oils you be manipulated into an affair?
Thanks again for all the support.
So yes the other man is married and has 2 kids himself. I've tried to come home and talk to her. I told her a list of things I thought but mainly things that I don't trust about her.
I honestly believe they haven't had sex, not because I am a mug but I kind of know when she is lying. Either way I don't the sex to be the thing that makes it wrong. I think the wedding vows thing is so much worse.
Does nobody have any sympathy for her situation? Is there no chance she did just get caught up in something that got out of hand? Is there no chance she is genuinely remorseful?
OP, really sorry this has happened to you.
I know you don't want to believe she could have willingly done all these things, but listen to the wisdom of Mumsnet.
Definitely get some breathing space, ask her to move out and let her prove to you that she is remorseful. (Not by wailing and threatening suicide.)
Does nobody have any sympathy for her situation?
Not much. She's a cheater. I was, and I know whereof I speak.
I didn't get caught. I'd have lied, too.
Is there no chance she did just get caught up in something that got out of hand?
Not much. She's an adult, in possession of her faculties.
Is there no chance she is genuinely remorseful?
Time will tell.
See how she is in a few weeks out of the marital home.
I have no sympathy for her, she didnt have to engage with him, she planned KNOWINGLY with him to spend time together, she was not thinking about you before you found out, shes not crying for causing you pain, shes crying for herself, because shes selfish.
They have been intimate, she enjoy the rush and cheapness of it, knowing she had a husband at home and 2 kids that she has potentially uproot and for what.
A cheap thrill.
I know this story, because i've been there too, my ex wasnt sorry for he did to me and walked out the day i had an overdose.
Cheaters only cry for themselves.
Upset will it make it better if it did "just" get out of hand? She didn't sit down and plan this with military precision. Like many affairs it probably started with shitty boundaries, disrespect for the partner and a belief they could get away with it. All of that can sit squarely with something that "got out of hand" but it doesn't mean the betrayal isn't there.
I think it's unlikely she can be remorseful this soon. She was happy enough to do this until she got caught. You're both still in shock and will have a roller coaster of emotions to process before the dust settles.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
What she did was bad enough but then treating you like a mug, manipulating you just makes it worse.
She is playing you. It seems like you will forgive her and move on. She will probably do it again as there has been no consequences for shagging another man weeks after her marriage.
Think about the example you are setting your children for their future relationships.
I honestly believe they haven't had sex, not because I am a mug but I kind of know when she is lying.
Did you know she was lying when she said it ended a month before you got married? No, you didn't, you believed her. Until you saw the texts that proved otherwise.
You can believe her if you want, it probably doesn't actually make that big a difference to you. But just remember that this is a classic lie that cheaters tell. All the time.
Is there no chance she is genuinely remorseful? If she agrees to move out, without a fuss, without expecting you to feel responsible, then there is a chance that her remorse is genuine.
If she agrees to give you the time and space you need, to think about what you want to do, it is possible that she is willing to start treating you with the respect that you deserve.
If not, it's just crocodile tears designed to control you and let her treat you how she wants.
I am slightly confused with regards to the phone - did she throw the phone in the river while you were there?
OP, does your wife come onto Mumsnet?
I asked XH if he was texting OW. He said no. I said that I knew he was, he said only a few times. His mobile phone bills showed thousands of texts to her. He denied emailing, phoning and facebooking her. I had evidence that he had done all of those things.
He lied blatantly about it. This is what cheaters do. They minimise everything until confronted with the proof of what they have done.
Whether or not she is genuinely remorseful? only time will tell. If she is, she will cut this man out of her life completely and give everything she has to saving your relationship.
My DH thinks he knows when I am lying. He does sometimes but it's actually pretty easy to keep a secret if I really really want to. Luckily for him I'm mad about him so the only secrets are about Christmas presents.
I think many women could tell you the same. After all, you didn't notice when she was lying through the whole affair.
After a lot of time hanging out on this board I can tell you you never get full disclosure the first, second, third or fourth time you ask for it - the details come out very slowly and with a lot of denial.
So for both these reasons I don't think you are a mug, I think you are a man why loves his wife v v much but she has had sex with the OM.
And I think it's great there are men here. I'm not a mum but they seem to put up with me!
No, no sympathy here either.
I have had the opportunity to have affairs. A student at university, a lecturer at university... alongside the opportunity to snog random men (when I was younger!) in the pub on a night out... all whilst I was with my husband. And do you know how many times it happened? None.
A lot of denial and a lot of blame.
Don't accept the blame. If she wasn't happy she could have talked to you, she could have walked away. She didn't need to do this and cause the heartache and devastation that she has done.
He lied blatantly about it. This is what cheaters do. They minimise everything until confronted with the proof of what they have done.
And then they cry and are sorry and promise the earth. But not until they are caught.
Until they are caught, they bask in the thrill of a new lover and try very, very hard to keep it a secret.
You are only a mug if you take everything she says at face value. How can you honestly believe a word she says? You know she is capable of lying to you. You know she can be deceitful and not care one jot about you whilst she is with him.
Have you asked her to leave, or are you too worried she won't come back? What do you want OP. You talk a lot about how she feels, what she says, what she wants but what about you?
''I don't the sex to be the thing that makes it wrong. I think the wedding vows thing is so much worse. ... Does nobody have any sympathy for her situation?''
Forget about the sex/no sex thing then, for now, to clear the waters here.
Sympathy? No. Hell no. She was carrying on with this guy up to, through, and out the other side of her wedding to you!
That is not 'getting caught up in the moment'. I'm sorry. Those are the actions of a truly unpleasant person deep down.
I'm so sorry.
"Does nobody have any sympathy for her situation?"
Sadly, we're as in the dark as you are as to what the situation actually was. The secrecy, lies etc have seen to that. But if she'd been bored in the relationship or felt overshadowed, the right thing to do would have been to talk to you. If she got caught up in something that got out of hand and about which she felt remorseful, she would have ended it before it blew your world apart. What she's actually chosen to do ... bare bones... is shit on her own doorstep with a man you regarded as a friend, not even letting marriage get in the way, and had no intention of stopping.
A friend of mine found himself in a similar position.
His wife had an affair. He found out. She cried, she begged, she deflected and she blamed.
As it's so often the man who has the affair, he found it difficult to believe that his wife was no different to these disgusting, sleazy men and he forgave her. They moved on and moved house. They had another baby.
She did it again.
OP has the right to try and give his relationship another try.
I don't like the chorus of LTB in these threads when we are sitting at home happily doing the daily grind whilst the OP has to decide whether to blow the rest of his life apart or contemplate piecing it together again.
Look, we don't know your wife, one would hope you do. Maybe she is terribly sorry and contrite,, maybe she is telling you a pack of lies, only time is going to tell on this one.
If it were me and I wanted to try again I would want a new set of rules and counselling. No password protection on emails or phone, you can choose to check either whenever you were concerned (this could lead to her getting another phone, but let's assume at this point she doesn't plan on continuing the affair). I would also be pressing for her to look for another job (if possible).
The trust has been broken and needs to be rebuilt, but trying to bandage over the situation and carry on isn't going to work. There was a reason why she decided to have an affair, emotional or physical, whether one or both it was still a betrayal of your marriage. Perhaps she was bored, perhaps it was flirtation that got out of hand, I think only counselling is going to uncover her thought processes and if she refuses then to my mind she doesn't want to save your relationship.
OP, you sound like you're in denial, unable to believe that 'cupcake' (not you cupcake78) has done this to you. You're even making excuses for her, perhaps because it makes you feel a little better to blame the other guy rather than her.
You need to wake up and smell the coffee. The chain of lies and behaviour from her is quite classically manipulative. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this has going on for far longer than you think, or if there are other man.
You won't like where I'm going here, but if I were in your situation, the first things on my mind - even before divorce, because you can't get divorced yet - would be paternity tests for 'my' children and, STD tests. I mean, what are the odds that she was faithful all along with your two kids (almost a decade), and then only started cheating around your impending marriage?
Sorry about your situation.
Why would he want to prove the children are/aren't his? He's their Dad, that's what counts - either way.
sebsmummy I know what you're saying, but a lot of us are talking from personal experience.
FWIW, I don't understand giving someone a second chance. Not for an affair. As I've already read today, you don't ever get over it or past it, you just find a way to live with it. There's no way I'd be prepared to tolerate feeling like that for the rest of my life. I know that I'd never be able to trust someone ever again. And there's no way I'd tolerate it.
Has she offered to leave her job?
Nobody is actually telling him to leave her. Only to ask her to leave the marital home while they both clear their heads and get some space to process what has been going on.
"Why would he want to prove the children are/aren't his?"
...I said, "if I were in [his] situation", that would be important to me.
In any case, I could just as easily turn the question around and ask you why would he NOT want to be sure that the children are his? - I assure you, as a man, most men would tend to care about that fact.
On a legal point, IF they were to split and she were to have the kids with her, she would probably want child support from whatever income he may have, and paternity is kind of relevant to that.
I am speaking as someone with experience of affairs in my parents marriage. Whilst I think in hindsight it would have been better for them to have separated in a way I'm glad they didn't as my life would have been so different and as it blew up in my GCSE year I doubt I would have passed an exam.
OP is trying to think of his family, namely his children, and I can totally understand his desire to keep the unit together. I admire him for that. Sometimes it's important to give things a second go just to underline the fact that it's not possible and separation is the only way. I wonder if the 'what ifs' are harder in a way. If he walks away without trying and then spends a lifetime wondering if he should have given it a second chance.
IMO if it's not going to work out it will be bloody obvious within a year, probably within 6 months.
Thing is, OP's not going to blow anything away.
If it fails, that'll be down to his wife cheating.
The only chance he has of saving this is to insert a break. Show her what the future holds, short sharp shock.
It's not about LTB, it's about actions and consequences, and preventative measures.
If you ask someone to leave, they can always come back, if they are prepared to try, and if you are prepared to accept the amount of work it's going to take on both sides.
If you stay, what's to stop her promising the earth without meaning it. A room full of people didn't stop her before, why would her H and kids be any more important on their own?
The children are 9 & 3 - any decent man would not care if they were biologically his children or not. He is their Dad & that's what counts - including financial support should they split (though I think he should keep them if he wants to - it wouldn't be him breaking the family up).
"The children are 9 & 3 - any decent man would not care if they were biologically his children or not...."
I'm sorry, but you are naïve. The vast majority of men would care to know, and the vast majority of men are decent, so as a man I reject your backhanded shaming attempt.
I am not saying he should abandon the children, but it is silly to think a 'decent' man wouldn't care to know if his children were really 'his', if there were any reason to doubt.
I think anyone'd want to know, the truth is important.
Thank you Hissy. I'm not sure what it is that ChippingInLovesAutumn is having trouble understanding about this.
I too am so sorry to hear what has happened to you - I was on the receiving end of exactly the same thing & I have to unfortunately agree that the throwing the phone away says it all - she didn't want you to discover the extent of her deceit.
Looking back, in my case, my big mistake was to believe all the garbage about it only being kissing, emotional, no sex etc etc....I put myself through nine months of hell whilst wanting to believe he wanted to work at our marriage. He even came to relate & through the whole period, was still seeing her, still lying to me and still telling her that our marriage was over.
The other posters are right - she is gutted and embarrassed by getting caught, and the thought of having to face up to her actions.
I honestly think I should have made my husband leave there and then - becuase I still think he may have been shocked into realising what he was throwing away. What I actually did was to 'forgive' him and let him carry on deceiving me and being unfaithful.
So I do agree, maybe a separation is the right thing. She needs to reflect on her actions, realise how much she has hurt you. And if YOU decide to try again, she must be totally open and honest about the whole thing from day 1 - tell you the whole story, be prepared for you to question her, and be prepared to win back your love and trust. Believe me, you will soon know whether she is or not.
Any attempts to conceal phones, email or any other communication means one thing - she is still seeing him.
You have my thoughts & very best wishes. I hope it works out for you. x
I kinda know when she's lying..........sorry. You don't.
Ola - it might be all about the money for you, it wouldn't be for the men I know. I am not having any trouble 'understanding' your point of view (but thank you for the patronising comment ), I simply disagree with you about what makes someone a 'decent man'. I'm not naive - I just happen to think that loving a child and being a parent to a child is more important than who the sperm came from .
Hissy - it's one thing to 'want to know' - just to know, it's quite another for it to be 'the first thing you would do' if you found out your wife had been having an affair and for it to have an impact on the child support you would pay - to support a child you supposedly love.
ChippingInLovesAutumn why would you assume the woman would get custody? She's working, she should be leaving the family home... she should be paying the support, neh?
It shouldn't matter who has fucked who, and who has been fucked up
What happens to the children should be what is best for them
Oh I agree chipping, it wouldn't be the first thing i'd think of even, but sooner or later i'd need to know the truth. And yes, i'd not stop loving them either, whatever the outcome.
Ok, as a woman, i'd know if I gave birth or not, and wouldn't be in a position where i'd need a dna test to determine who the father was, but I am a person that needs to know the truth, or it'd niggle at me.
Did you get my PM btw? We've both namechanged again and I don't know if i've missed the boat :-\
And the cheat needs to leave. Always.
I hope he does sling her out. It'd do her good.
Wow - sorry I didn't meant to create something so heated.
Okay listen, I don't want people to overly judge her, I do know her better than others, I don't know her for recent actions but I am certain this is the first time and this is not being naive.
Also the kids are definitely mine, they look ridiculously like me, no paternity test needed.
It is an awful situation and I appreciate the support but please lets keep this calm. I don't want others arguing with each other here.
She has admitted this evening she threw the phone away because there is a text telling him she loves him.
It is all so confusing but I don't think I need to automatically think the worst of everything but I also don't have to believe her.
I think the best thing is as people have said, a short break where we clear our heads and figure things out.
Now - deep breath
Decent men do support their kids, most men are decent.
Ok, leap of blind faith here as I have no-one in my life to base this on, but I know not all men are bastards.
Yes, she should pay him child support, and yes she should only get every other weekend and learn what consequences are.
I'd say the same to a woman with a cheating male.
There is a cheater's script, and there is a script for betrayed spouses,
A clinical approach is best.
Love, this is Mumsnet! We discuss, we feel strongly, it's all fine! It's nothing more than's going through your head atm!
You don't tend to tell someone you've never slept with that you love them.
Don't believe a word of what she says, tell her to get the texts retrieved, tell him to show you his phone/emails perhaps, then you'll consider hearing her out.
You have to go hardball here, trust me.
I know this is bewildering, but try to detach from the emotion, look at the facts and trust your instincts and gut.
This is all about you now, and what you want to do.
But you do have to do something, letting her stay is the worst thing you could do.
i think they were probably having it off.
i know i would have if i'd had all those opportunities. certainly when i was young, i know i did.
onemorechap - did you not read my post?
ChippingInLovesAutumnTue 12-Nov-13 21:59:30
The children are 9 & 3 - any decent man would not care if they were biologically his children or not. He is their Dad & that's what counts - including financial support should they split (though I think he should keep them if he wants to - it wouldn't be him breaking the family up).
Hissy - yes I did, but I've been having a little trouble with them <sigh> but I'm hoping it is fixed now Will get back to you tomorrow night - just off to shower & bed now. I totally agree with wanting to know the truth otherwise it would niggle away and I think the child is owed the truth as well, but that's not what Ola was getting at and it would not be 'the first thing I would do'.
Mist - yes, of course - but all things being equal, I think the cheater should be the one to leave the family home and lose out on living with their children.
upsethusband - I hope you can see that you don't know her as well as you thought you did She has now admitted she lied to you again, cheaters wont admit more than they are sure you know... she is not going to tell you that she has slept with him until she is forced to. I don't think it matters that much now anyway tbh - she has lost your trust and she told him she loved him - far worse than 'sex' in my world.
"She has admitted this evening she threw the phone away because there is a text telling him she loves him."
Well then they were shagging. No doubt about it.
And there was more on the phone that she still hasn't told you about.
A truly remorseful person would have been honest with you a long time ago.
She is still lying you you and the drip-feeding of the truth she has done is just out and out cruelty to someone who has just found out they have been cheated on.
Every new lie is another stab at the heart of your marriage and your ability to ever trust her again.
She is STILL all about herself at the moment.
If she gave a flying fuck about you she would not be carrying on in such a ridiculous way and making this whole thing about how SHE feels.
OP I am so incredibly sorry this has happened to you. And it HAS happened to you: she chose to cheat. You did not do anything to make her, so please don't start to blame yourself. And nope, no sympathy for her. If someone is unhappy in their relationship they should end it, not sleep around within it. It's entitled, cruel and selfish. It doesn't make someone the devil incarnate but it does make you wronged, and don't let yourself be persuaded otherwise.
I'm afraid she's lying about the extent of the affair. They always do, sadly. Not that it matters - as you say, it's a technicality in the greater scheme of things. I suppose what really matters now is where you go from here?
How do you feel, and what do you want to happen next, given the reality of the situation as it is?
ChippingInLovesAutumn - "...I simply disagree with you about what makes someone a 'decent man'..."
Ergo, in your opinion, a man in the OP's situation who wants to be sure that the children are his and finds that important is not a decent man. Thanks, that's clear now.
Of course knowing the truth is what I was getting at - knowing the truth about the true extent of his wife's dishonesty. Perhaps you need to read my original post again, and more carefully this time, as you also missed the fact that I was putting 'myself' in the OP's situation rather than taking for granted for he should/shouldn't do.
My reference to money/CSA was a side issue, to illustrate to you that there is also 'practical' justification for wanting to know the truth, and please don't moralise to me about what it important. When the relationship fails, the money is always important, and I say we let everyone decide if they would like to pay for someone else's children without attenpting to shame. Don't you think?
OP - I'm glad you're happy the kids look like you.
OP has just found out his wife is cheating, his world has been blown apart, can we try not to argue on his thread?
It is possible the lies are from the shame, it must be really hard to admit this stuff, really hard, telling your husband of 3 months that you told another man you loved him.
I don't believe they had sex but I do believe it is not relevant to the argument anyway.
Ola, when did the law change? It used to be that fathers in that position had to continue to keep the children under the Children Act as "children of the family" regardless of actual paternity - has there been new legislation on that front? Genuinely interested as it always did strike me as very unfair on the poor men concerned. Though saddest, of course, for the poor children. Awful thing to do to them.
I do think people should listen to the OP and perhaps have the dispute on PM, though. This is his support thread and he's indicated he finds the arguing problematic and that paternity is a non-issue.
You need some time apart I think because living together in such a close environment as the marital home isn't going to help. Obviously you're frightened that once either of you have moved out then you'll never move back in but that's a risk you'll have to take. SHE has had the affair so SHE should be doing all the SINCERE work to save her marriage. She has not done that.
I'm so sorry you're facing this. Been there.
There's one very important question you need to ask yourself - could you ever trust her again?
If you can, and can ultimately make peace with what she's done, then you might stand a chance.
If you don't then it's time to look to the future apart.
"I don't believe they had sex but I do believe it is not relevant to the argument anyway."
Of course it's relevant.
How can you even attempt to try to recover from a betrayal if you don't know what kind of betrayal it was?
She is taking you for a fool asking you to forgive her when she is clearly not remotely sorry for what she did and not prepared to tell you the truth about what happened.
"It is possible the lies are from the shame, it must be really hard to admit this stuff, really hard, telling your husband of 3 months that you told another man you loved him."
Yeah, it must be hard.
But if you are truly sorry for what you did and if you have even a scrap of respect for the man you make a fool of when you married him while sleeping with his friend, then you TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH.
No, it's not important really is it, except from the honesty perspective.
How are you feeling tonight, in yourself? Are you managing to eat anything?
UpsetHusband - Sorry this thread seems to have taken a turn for the worst - please, please don't let it put you off. I hope you can just read through the posts that are relevant to your situation and take the advice that suits you best.
Trouble with such a heated topic as this is that it inevitably stirs up strong feelings, and people have a tendency to project their own hurt onto your situation.
We're still listening
ola - you are clearly hard of reading and I am not going to derail the OP's thread arguing back & forth with you. Any idiot can see that is not what I said.
Also I hate to say this, but I think you need to seek legal advice, just in case the worst does happen and you split permanently. If you both work fulltime and genuinely share care for the children, then you may want to look at a shared care arrangement, and if you move out you could jeopardise that by establishing a new status quo. I don't mean to sound brutal but getting your head straight on that front will help you move on to dealing with the emotional side with some understanding of what the realities of your various options are. (Obviously if one has far more responsibility for the kids, then it's in their interests for that to continue, whichever one of you it might be.)
Youre right Upsethusband - the sex isn't relevant - but what is, is her refusal to own up to it.
I realised far too late that unless your other half is prepared to tell you everything, without you having to extract it from them, they are still hiding things from you. Would she really tell this man she loved him if it hadn't progressed beyond kissing?
Please remember, you found all this out by accident. If you hadn't, it would still be going on. And however hard it is for her, it's not nearly as hard as it is to be on the receiving end of infidelity.
OP, I have been on the receiving end of this, and my advice would be that even if you want to see if you can repair the relationship you should ask her to leave for a while, so you both have some space to consider whether you can continue. She needs to feel truly sorry - not just sorry for herself for getting caught
By doing that you force her to face up to the awfulness of the situation she has caused and the potential consequences. There is no where to hide from it. Then and only then, will you know if she is really sorry and if you have a chance to repair your relationship.
Even if you dont want to seperate at this point - dont feel sorry for her and just let her off the hook - or it WILL happen again.
Upset don't worry about people arguing on here - it happens a lot, this is Mumsnet!
You blame yourself for a lot - that she strayed, and now that you have started a thread causing people to argue. YOu are feeling bad that she is upset, and now you are feeling sorry for her for having to tell you . What about you?
Sorry you are going through this.
"Yes, she should pay him child support, and yes she should only get every other weekend and learn what consequences are." no. whatever either party has done, it is never, never ok or acceptable to use the children as weapons with which to prove a point/show what the consequences are. ever. And the idea that anyone would even suggest this is utterly abhorrent.
Op - nobody on here can tell you what you need to do. People will always talk from their own experiences, and affairs do tend to bring out the very opinionated here on mn.
Ultimately what you believe is up to you, and what you choose to do is also up to you. The only thing I will say though is, when you choose to believe something, ask yourself whether you are choosing to believe it because you really do, or because you don't want to believe the potential alternatives. If you settle for what you want to believe now you may find that when things start to calm down and you start to think more rationally that your perceptions may change.
Nobody but your dw and the om know the truth of what has happened. Being told by anyone else that they have definitely had sex won't make that true or not, only she can tell you the truth.
She may be remorseful and this may be genuine, but the one thing I will say is that if she wishes to repair your relationship she will need to be completely transparent from now on, no more secrets or lies, only absolute honesty will suffice.
perfectstorm - the Child Support Act 1991 only requires the "parent" of a child to be responsible for maintenance.
A parent is: "...any person who is in law the mother or father of the child", so essentially you have to be a 'biological' parent or adopted parent etc. to be liable for Child Maintenance - the CSA doesn't make a man liable to pay Child Maintenance just because he may have been fooled for long enough into thinking the child his!..... although scarily enough, they do have laws like that in some parts of the US..... the mind boggles
Youre right Upsethusband - the sex isn't relevant - but what is, is her refusal to own up to it.
I'm afraid I agree completely. I see why people always do lie about this,but it does drag things out so much more painfully for the victim, and it is in itself IMO another illustration of the sort of selfishness that the affair either fostered, or was always there to begin with.
ChippingInLovesAutumn - ... yes, just as any idiot could also read my original post and understand exactly what I said.
Ola the Children Act supplements the CSA (it's how very high earners can be made to pay more than the CSA maximums, and also how children in university can seek support despite being over 18 from biological parents), and it states that support can be sought from step-parents, both within and without a formalised marital relationship, as long as the child has been regarded as a "child of the family". Contributions from a bio parent are taken into account, and so is whether or not the mother was honest about paternity... but there was ample case law, a few years ago at least, in which men misled on paternity had to pay full child support for the children they had raised in the belief they were theirs, even after repudiating those children, as the best interests of the kids was the paramount consideration. Of course the converse of that is that they have full parental rights of contact/residence too. Which I'm sure in many cases is fully pursued - people don't stop loving their kids because the other parent is a dishonest piece of work.
I didn't appreciate you weren't a family lawyer - obviously it's a very specialised and complex field.
Thanks perfectstorm - haven't eaten a lot but it will probably be good for me to lose a few pounds.
The problem here is she might of not slept with him, she might of too. I can't know for sure but if she definitely didn't and I keep pursuing it to the end I might be missing the point which is what to do next. This for me is why I don't want it to be relevant, like sex is the the line which is crossed which makes it bad.
It is already bad. I know that and so does she.
All the thoughts and opinions here are great. I wouldn't take custody either, she is a great mum, a better mum than I am dad in so many ways. I also work longer so she can spend more time with the kids and I can be there when they need me etc...
Now it is time for space and thinking but I do appreciate all the comments so much. I need to focus on giving the kids some stability and planning what will happen now.
Wannabe, why not? That's what is dished out to cheating men, time and time again.
Equality works both ways.
She broke her vows, his trust and the family to pieces.
He can be the main steady trustworthy parent. Why should he lose it all, cos she can't remember to stay faithful?
The best place for the children is in their home. Their father needs to salvage whatever he can of family life.
She needs to be elsewhere for a bit to look at her actions.
It depends upon the nature and quality of your relationship tbh. Are affairs a dealbreaker? They are for many but they are not for a sizeable minority. One question that is important - what does she get out of this relationship that she does not get with you?
I do understand that no single person can meet another person's needs entirely and completely. We all need different relationships for different things. But what is she getting out of her relationship with him that she does not get with you? This is not a friendship, with a beery kiss that is best forgotten. This has gone on over time.
By the way this comment below is dangerous and deluded thinking@
Also I do have a feeling she was manipulated, I know what this bloke is like, he has a track record.
You are thinking of her as the poor lil miss, likely to be manipulated by some Don Juan. That thinking is a big mistake. You need to work out what her needs are. You are not meeting them right now. Work on it with honesty.
You sound such a lovely person, OP. Once again I'm so very sorry you are in this situation, and I'm lost in admiration for your focus on what's best for the kids. I hope she meets you on that, for their sake. It's depressingly common for people to be too angry to do that - hence the mention of legal advice. But if you are sure she should retain primary care in the event of a split, then it isn't really necessary right away, no.
Weight loss is one thing, but it's very hard to cope with stress when not nourished properly. I know how hard it is to eat when things are like this, so maybe buy some nice soups and bread? Slips down easily, full of nutrients. It may sound daft but things look and are a great deal worse when you aren't eating at least something. You need to take care of yourself a bit - you've had a horrible shock, as well as the rest of it. Similarly if you struggle badly with sleep, there's no shame in asking a GP for a short, week or two week, presciption for something to help with that. This is a horrible time but the worst of it will pass, and more swiftly if you look after yourself as you get through it.
It's all very new and I don't think dwelling on what did or didn't happen right now is constructive, no, certainly if your instinct is otherwise. Probably getting through the next few days and giving yourself time to regain equilibrium before taking further steps would be a good idea.
Please, above all else, don't sit there agonising over what you did or didn't do. Infidelity is a choice, and you aren't the one who made it. You did nothing wrong. You're allowed to be human and flawed, we all are, your wife included. You aren't the one who did anything to the other and please don't allow yourself to fall into anxious wonderings on whether you could have altered her choices in life. She's her own person, and like us all must take responsibility, good or ill, for her actions.
OP. I hope you are taking in the good advice and ignoring the debate which is not really relevant to your problem.
I do think they are having a full blown affair, sex included, but as you rightly say, the line has been crossed whether there is sex or not, as she has betrayed her vows and her marriage to you just by communicating with him.
You do need to get some legal advice. If you both want to work things out then you will both need counselling.
But please do realise that she is still lying to you. In order to move on you need to be able to trust her and at the moment you can't do that.
Unless she realises just how badly she has behaved and that she needs to work on this, you run the risk if her doing it again.
You need a serious talk with her and complete honesty from her in order to be able to move on.
Oh lord, what a terrible situation to be in. Your deep hurt I palpable. I am so sorry for you.
I don't have any sympathy for her. I have nothing new to add to the other wise posters, such as cogito.
This is a deep betrayal. You sound very kind. But she has treated you abominably. I know I couldn't forgive this extent of betrayal, lies and contempt.
I wish you all the luck in resolving this mess for your and your children's sake. Are you able to speak to someone in real life about this? Don't be embarrassed to. It's not your shame remember, it's hers.
Hissy it doesn't matter, as the OP wisely knows, because the children are blameless and if parents split they are hurt, and the best way of limiting that hurt is by continuing with what's familiar and with the parent they are used to spending most time with.
Yes it's horrible when one person betrays another. But those adult choices should not take priority over children's best interests. You're wanting the wronged party to matter more than the children, and that road is a destructive one. The kids should not be collateral damage in adult wars.
Yeah, apologies for the tangent OP. I'm a bit of a wistful ex-geek about law sometimes and just like learning of any new developments; it wasn't intentional derailing. Bloody tactless though, to be that irrelevant on your thread. I'm sorry.
Will sit on hands henceforth.
To be honest, I know this might sound daft, but I don't think if they have had sex or not is really that important.
She is emotionally so involved with him. She has said she loves him, and god knows what else she text him. And they have admitted to what she used to say on swimming pool signs 'heavy petting'. Whether they had full blown sex doesn't make anything worse, it's already bad.
She married you whilst having an fair and he was there. That is so incredibly hurtful. Nobody manipulated her into that.
You sound very kind and reasonable. Almost too understanding. You're giving her the benefit of the doubt and I don't think she deserves your consideration
I think it's very, very important that at some point this woman tells the truth about her affair.
You know enough to know that what she has done is an almost unbelievable betrayal, but that doesn't mean that her being honest isn't important.
The level of disrespect for you in what she did is pretty mind-boggling though.
I am going to go against the tide here. I noticed that you have been a couple for a number of years and that if a relationship is truly happy then infidelity doesn't crop up. I really feel for you but whoever is the primary care giver for your children should remain so. Secondly I would not insist on an sti test, she had an affair she wasn't sleeping around with lots of men and yes I know it only takes one but she only may have Dtd with the om. Time apart is a good idea but it doesn't have to be living in separate houses it's just about giving each other space. Find out from her why she thinks she did it and look at where your relationship faltered. If you wish to remain married then she will have to be transparent with you and answer any questions that you ask, I understand why she threw her phone in the river but it would be helpful to you as much as it hurts that she is brutally honest how far things went. I think it's brilliant that you haven't come on here slagging her off all guns blazing, the human psyche is very complex and it shows how caring you are to come on this forum.
I agree you sound a very level headed and caring person. I wouldn't be so understanding as you I am certain.
Sympathy for her?
YES,,, right up until the point where she acted upon her "the grass may be greener" fantasy rather than talk to you about how unhappy she was. It's unrealistic to expect a long-term partner not to have fantasies or crushes on others. Sex lives dwindle and vocalised or demonstrated reassurance isn't always forthcoming. Without recognising that from the outset, either party (or both) can wind up feeling undervalued, undesireable, neglected and lonely. Thing is, if you've made a commitment to somebody - and I don't differentiate between marriage vows and moving in/having kids together - you owe it to that person to discuss your woes before embarking on an affair,, physical or emotional. Essentially, the first person you say the words "I'm not happy." to should be your current partner,, NOT the potentially-next one. That demonstrates lack of commitment to both partner and children and right around there is where I lose any sympathy.
OP, you aren't seeing this clearly.
Your first step is to accept that the person you thought you married does not exist - she was a figment of your imagination and she never, ever existed as you imagined her to be. Grieve for that, it's a loss you can never regain, and there is no blame on you (other than not seeing clearly the person she really is). She was the perfect, loving, honest, soulmate only in your imagination, never in reality.
Once you accept that you need to look at the person in front of you. The posters here have pointed out all her flaws (and they've been pretty accurate) and you have to weight that up against all the positives you can still salvage. When you balance those scales out, what have you got? Would this flawed, deceitful and manipulative woman still have enough redeeming features for you to want to continue a marriage with? And is this diminished person worth the trauma you will still need to go through?
At the moment you are trying to minimise the flaws and bring back your imaginary wife and you need to accept that can't happen. That's why you need the space.
Newbie here too. You looked like a great group to chat with.
So sorry you are going through this stress upsethusband. I too have been down this road in a previous marriage , many years ago. Twelve years.
It was a kick in the- you know where. Discovery is the worst. It shakes you up. Tons of questions , but it hurts to dwell on it & probably not good for you either. Take your time as you can only decide what to do. It is hard for children , especially with holidays coming. Can you do things out with the children ? Just the three of you? Lunch & playground or something enjoyable? It will help to de-stress maybe & good for all.
Welcome Weeser. And that's as good a first post as any.
My my OP....she's got you right where she wants you-hasn't she? She cheats on YOU,lies and betrays YOU.....and manages to manipulate you into thinking that SHE is the victim here!!! She's already got you thinking that somehow YOU are to blame, i.e your job/personality!!! And you're falling for her games by thinking of ways to excuse her behaviour,by constantly thinking about HER and not about how she's hurt and betrayed you DELIBERATELY. There is no way you can think clearly with her right next to you playing on your feelings for her.
She was NOT coerced into having an affair nor was she forced to lie to you over and over again-she CHOSE to do those things. She did sleep with him...the phone would have proven that in the txt messages...and now she tells you the 'reason' she threw the phone was cos she didn't want you to see the text saying 'i love you' to him-bet she only said that AFTER you told her that throwing the phone showed she had no intention of being honest with you??
I've known women like her. This won't have been the first time she's cheated on you-but she'll never admit to that cos you have no proof. She still isn't telling you the whole truth-just drip feeding you bits when you're close to exposing what she's really about. She knows your 'weak spots' and she's using the age old tactic of tears and emotional blackmail to reel you back in before you get far enough to see through her.
If i were in your shoes i would be asking myself/her WHY she married you whilst still carrying on with him? What were her motives? Clearly she didn't do it for love. Financial security? You admit you have a good job and are doing well....and she's playing to your ego by saying she feels 'overshadowed' by you and 'insecure' cos you're the 'life and soul of the party'.
I'm really sorry you've been put through this,however-in my very blunt opinion.....she's used to secure herself a cushy position where she's always got what she wants-you providing the financial security whilst she has her fun . She would have carried on her affair if you hadn't caught her out....and no doubt she will try and take you for every penny she can if you decide not to stay with her. She knows she can cos you do not see yourself having full custody of the kids ever.
I don't know how you trust someone again after they've done what she did. I know i couldn't.
A note about lying. People think i am a rubbish liar. What they don't know is that they will never, ever find out about the stuff that is important. I'm sorry to tell you that "she is a rubbish liar" is no guarantee that this is, in fact, the case.
Most of us are exceptionally good at lying when our security relies on not being found out
HI OP, so sorry to hear about this. You really do sound like a decent guy who is worth his weighting gold. You don't deserve this.
I am sorry to say, but I am willing to bet my house on the fact that your wife HAS slept with her boss. I'm sorry but she is a liar and a cheat with no respect for you, her children of her wedding vows. She was having the affair and then married you and made promises to you in front of her boss? You mention that she is a nice person, but her actions say differently.
Your wife is sorry, sorry she got caught. If you hadn't found out, then she would still be cheating. Her boss is sending naked photos holding his penis and you don't believe they have slept together. Here is some very harsh feedback for you OP. You are naive. I'm sorry to say that to you. You say you know when she is lying? Well, she has been lying to you for ages and you never picked up on it. The fat is that she is an accomplished liar, has had lots of practise and now can do it with ease and so it well. In addition to playing Russian Roulette with your family's happiness and playing fire with your young kids happiness, she is also being extremely unprofessional at work. Seriously, no one sleeps with their boss unless they have a very poor grasp on right and wrong.
I am not going to tell you to leave her. YOU deserve to have your marriage saved and your family in tact. I would tell her to move out for a bit. You do not have to, you are not the onto suffer the fall out from this. During that time I would tell her that if she wants to save her marriage with you, then she needs to move jobs ASAP, never ever see this man again and put 100% into rebuilding the trust she previously had with you and dedicated herself to cleaning up this mess. If she is not prepared to take 100% of the blame and make this effort, then as Mumsnetters so eloquently put it - Leave The Bitch.
Typos - sorry.
Also - throwing her phone in a river. Clearly she didn't want you to see the stuff that has passed between them as that would be the end of her marriage.
Sorry to drip.
OP, I agree with someone above who thinks that your wife may take you to the cleaners. I think you need legal advice and to put a few things in place where she can't wipe out any money you have saved.
Better safe than sorry.
I agree whether they had sex isn't relevant in many ways - she betrayed you emotionally.
Also meant to add....have you actually asked her WHY she married you if she was telling 'him' she loved him? Or was marrying you something she 'got caught up in' and 'carried away with'?!
I agree with squiffy, the woman you thought she was-was just an illusion. An illusion we all believe when we fall in love with someone. Time and space apart from her will hopefully help you see her exactly as she actually IS.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I know how devastating it feels.
I think the OP is in shock. He thought he had this lovely life, wonderful wife, kids, job - everything anyone could ask for. Then this Saturday it all fell apart - it's only Tuesday now. I would imagine it just doesn't feel real yet. I think the anger and disillusionment will set in when it does.
OP, Mumsnet is great when people are in this situation. You will always have people to hear you, support you and worry about you if you need it, as well as brutal honesty that those close to you will be scared to offer, in case it offends or you make a go of it after all this and they alienate you. Here, people say it how they see it - some may be wrong, but nobody pulls punches, and there's such a variety of views. I think that's so valuable and I hope you find it so. Conversely, never feel like you owe anyone a clarification or update. Take what you need from this place - it's what it's here for, and what IMO it can at times do best.
To bolster what Christmas said - Partial confession is a great means of hiding a larger lie. In the absence of proof, the only way to get busted in a lie is by failing to remember it. The fewer lies you tell, the easier they are to remember.
OP, to add to the tide you need to pull yourself together and stop arguing her side. What she has done is horrendous and she is already doing a fine job denying, minimising and making you question yourself. Ironically if you want to save your marriage - and rightly or wrongly it sounds as if you do -you have only one option. Tell her to leave your house and quit her job immediately.
If you don't do this she will lose any vestiges of respect she had for you which will make her even more likely to cheat going forwards.
Alright mate, I'm a bloke and I'm going to give you some hard to hear, man to man advice...
I know you must be very hurt and very confused BUT...
Mate - let's get real about who you are dealing with.
A long term affair takes a LOT of lying to pull it off.
That means she has lied to you again and again for god knows how long?
It means a LOT of deception and betrayal.
That means you have been betrayed again and again while she arranged and enjoyed sex with someone else.
It means a LOT of planning and skullduggery and - lets go back to it - a LOT of old fashioned lying.
That means she has planned and schemed and lied and manipulated and tortured and twisted the truth so that she could go off and fuck your mate.
Has she fucked him - c'mon... you know him - so get real...
Real world thinking - it's not Mary Poppins meets the Pope.
It's two adults in a hotel room for hours and hours and hours.
Your wife is a philanderer. She's been having sex with someone else and you have to face that reality. No fun at all but it is what it is.
It's really simple stuff which needs no dressing up - she's been fucking your mate.
SO CHANGE THE LOCKS !
You'll never trust her again AND YOU SHOULDN'T !
You have been betrayed in the ultimate way by someone you thought you were in partnership with AND by someone you considered a friend. Get rid of her and say good riddance to bad rubbish. No brainer.
NOT easy - but required.
Change the locks, get a lawyer, give her the full cold shoulder and get on with your life looking forward to meeting someone lovely in six months.
We're all damaged - we're all looking for truth and honesty.
Don't saddle yourself with this pain and this nonsense as if it's yours - it's not - it's her problem, her trouble and her undoing.
Don't be weird about the kids - they didn't betray you - but don't let her back in the building and don't let her worm her way back into your life so she can do this to you again (which she will).
You've suffered here and no doubt about it. It hurts to be betrayed and there is no cure. But don't go back to the abuser and ask for more - don't say "oh ho hum" and imagine you will save your marriage - you won't. You will only tell someone who is devious and sly that that they got away with it and suffered no consequence. Guess what will happen next ?
As for him, it's your call. I'd smack him but you might want to say - "she's your problem now" as you walk away with your head held high.
Good luck mate and I'm here if you want to PM me and talk about stuff...
I don't think you are allowed to change the locks if the other person is on the deeds.
But I very much liked this line from Monty: "Don't saddle yourself with this pain and this nonsense as if it's yours - it's not - it's her problem, her trouble and her undoing."
You need to work out what her needs are. You are not meeting them right now.
Now this I call dangerous thinking. There is the road to self blame, and the blame is not yours. It is very possible you were meeting all her "needs" but she simply "wanted" to shag her boss. It's a fallacy that all affairs are caused by someone not getting their needs met in a relationship and a very convenient excuse to let the betrayer off the hook and get the betrayed jumping through all sorts of desperate hoops to "keep" their partner, only for them to get shat on again because the consequences are never faced by the true person who deserves them.
Also, I find the lies that people tell to mitigate against something else can be very revealing. She says she threw her phone in the river because she told him she loved him. To some people that is worse than an exchange of bodily fluids and I am not sure why she thinks that is a better option. That says a lot about this woman.
That is a really kind post perfectstorm - I agree completely.
minty that's good advice as well, but I agree with balloon in that I don't think you can change the locks. However I would definitely be insisting that she goes away for a bit so you can have so,me distance and think, without the distraction of her self pitying tears which will make you feel sorry for her. You need to think about YOURSELF and how you're feeling, not her.
This happened in my family. My sister had an affair with a co-worker six weeks after her first wedding. There was evidence it was going on pre-wedding but she denied it and did a good job on the future DH. She didn't have as much background with her DH (DCs etc though) Undeniable evidence came out at the 6w mark. The marriage limped along and ended at the two year anniversary. Her DH just could not get past the brazen-ness of her taking the vows with him in the church, the lies, etc. It was the fact that the vows meant nothing to her that was the kicker. I know her of old and she has done worse than this and I am now NC with her but he could not get past it, and he genuinely wanted to - desperately. She's re-married but not happy and I would bet my bra strap she is at it all over again but thankfully I no longer have to deal with her crap! : (
So a chance to sleep and think about things.
So...today she is off to her parents to think about things, my parents are coming to help with the kids.
I'm not going to kick her out or change the locks. If we can't fix this the kids won't become a pawn. I work the long hours so she needs to raise the kids and they should stay in the family home.
I can't be bothered to pursue the did they / didn't they have sex. The fact is she married me with him in the room, an expensive wedding where she had everything she wanted and I spent my life savings to give it to her.
I feel like such a mug!
Glad you're OK OP. All of us who have been in your situation felt like mugs at the time. That's what happens when someone betrays your trust and throws your love and affection back in your face. Glad she's taking some time to think about things. Do your parents know what's happened?
Yeah both parents know...a few people know, I looked for revenge against him so I emailed the email he sent to my wife of his cock to the entire football team we played for, probably a bad idea but it felt good.
What is OP by the way?
Upset husband - you sound like a lovely man and deserve better than this.
Just to reiterate the other posters, she has lied and cheated with her boss, and now is betraying the trust you have together by blaming it on you. Disgusting behaviour.
Have a look at controlling relationships on the Internet, specifically woman to man. My speciality is man/woman DA but I know enough to recognise some red flags with your wife- threatening to overdose, sidestepping blame, then twisting it around saying the other person caused it through their job/behaviour/ whatever. I can send you some links through PM if you would like.
Concern yourself with the practical, if she is ok betraying your vows, then she maybe ok with doing you over financially. Gather together any important documents - mortgage papers, bank stuff etc. And see a solicitor to discuss where you stand if you do split with the kids/house/finances. Knowledge is power, and makes you more in control. This is worth doing even if you do not intend splitting up.
Upset husband - that is probably the best thing I've heard on MN!!
OP is opening poster - you in this instance.
Upsethusband was it a bad idea? I don't know. But maybe it will make him think twice before he sends photos of his dick to other men's wives...
OP means Original Poster. It's just a short cut for them what started the thread.
Take care of yourself today.
I'd love to know what the team's reaction was...
(OP... original post/er)
I understand the reason for the e-mail But, tempting though it is to focus your anger on Dick Boy, it's your DW who is responsible for the mess. You're reluctant to get angry with her at the moment because you're still trying to hold this together etc. But it will come.
minimonty has it right.....maybe not a good idea what you did with the email but i can understand 100% why you did it,
Don't feel sorry for your wife, she has been deceitful and lied through her teeth to carry on with this dick, you are in danger of looking like a mug I'm afraid, SHE IS ONLY UPSET BECAUSE SHE HAS BEEN FOUND OUT, she is drip feeding you all the bad bits, there was plenty on her phone that she didnt want you to see I'm afraid
A 'friend' of mine had an affair, she and the other man were both married, she used to take days of work to meet other man, it went on for years before SHE was found out, threatened to take her own life, said the other man had put pressure on her to have sex OP, she now lives with the other man!!
The photo was a bad idea. Firstly, you're well on the way to making him the Baddie and your wife the manipulated innocent. Secondly, now everyone in your football team knows your wife's most private business.
To have married you while all this was going on, to have had him there at the wedding, is just one of the lowest acts on all the affair threads I've read.
I don't know how you'd ever move on from that.
We're they secretly communicating that day?? On your honeymoon?
Your 'marriage' is based on lies and deceit and notching about the vows or the day was genuine, as you did not know the truth or what was actually going on.
You clearly DO NOT know when she is lying to you.
Sorry OP this must be heartbreaking, but Once you can see clearly you can plan best for the children and how you'll manage this devastating situation.
The photo was a good idea. Sod him.
Thinking that he is the baddie though is a very bad idea. She was the one saying the vows to you, no? With him grinning in the room. She was the one who had the wedding of a lifetime while planning secret hook-ups, no? She was the one who threw her phone away rather than you see the truth.
I'm sorry OP. I'm glad you have told people around you and it sounds like they will support you. I don't know how anyone could get over this.
OP = original poster = you
OP I feel for what you are going through. If you are new to MN you may not realise that a lot of folk post in haste and write with their hearts and not their brains. That is understandable but it does not always lead to temperate practical advice. There is a particular bias on MN that you should bear in mind.
As a Dad, you are quite right to acknowledge that the DC (darling children) should not become pawns, and that your DW (wife) is the appropriate one to bring them up and so should stay in the family home. This makes any decision about leaving much more difficult for you as you will (largely) lose the DC even if you do get the usual shared residence. You need to think long and hard before you ever move out as you may never move back in.
I am going against the grain here and will say it is quite possible that your DW is genuinely remorseful and that you both have a future together if whatever it is that gave you those perfect years is still there. You have both taken an emotional battering and are feeling destabilised. Perhaps some counselling could benefit you both before any decisions are made. Explore what made your DW feel the need for external validation - I think it is telling that your youngest is 3: your DW is emerging from years of having been tied to the house and (sorry) drudgery of small children and may have needed something to make her feel adored as a woman and not just as a mother. This is NOT an excuse for her behaviour but is a possible explanation. Many marriages do survive a brief dalliance by one or more partners and it does not have to be the end of the road if you have something valuable to salvage. Is your DW still the woman with whom you want to spend the next few decades, and are you the man she wants to be with? If yes, then I wish you luck in getting through this patch.
Re the overdose attempt: please ask your DW directly if she has thoughts/intention/ plan to take her own life. If yes, then please do not assume this is simply a cry for help. Please seek immediate help. I cannot stress this enough whatever your intentions are regarding the future of your marriage. Any such event would turn a rough patch into a heartbreaking tragedy.
Good luck. You sound lovely btw and balanced and right thinking. Those qualities will all help you to get through.
How are things at work with your boss? Do you need to find a new job? Gosh, it never rains but it pours.
OP: Your come across as a great guy, I am so sorry you have deceived in this way. Your wife is lucky to have a man like you, so committee to the happiness of your children above anything else.
Unfortunately, in this day and age, people are not taking their wedding vows seriously. Some people think getting married is just about having a big party in a nice dress with good food and drink. I wish this could change. I wish our society would go back to caring for family values and going into a marriage with a life long commitment.
Marriage is not easy, but for it to have gone wrong so early on seems inadmissible. All the best to you, and I hope you find the right path to your happiness.
Im sorry but I agree with cooljazz
She didn't stop it after you wed.
Theres a few words that come to mind when thinking about her.
Ive been with hubby over 7 years. Im pretty young myself but I pray and hope that a day like this never comes for us.
It all comes down to trust. Do you think you would be able to trust her again?
The next time shes late from work,would you believe she was stuck in traffic or would you think she was back in his arms?
When her phone goes off next and she says it her friend would you believe her?
I doubt it.
How are you and the kids?
Raisin But this wasn't a "brief daliance". This was an affair that pre-dates the wedding, that was happening whilst the wedding was taking place and has continued since. The OM was at the wedding, hugging the OP and congratulating him whilst all the time fucking his new bride. The new bride didn't even have the decency to tell the OM to stay away.
That's about as low as it gets, tbh.
The OP is not responsible for his cheating wife's mental health either.
OP you sound like such a lovely man.
I would imagine that even if you do make a decision to continue with your marriage- this will be the cancer that will inevitably kill it.
She sounds like an incredibly selfish woman.
My mother had an affair when I was 17 and my brother was 14. It was with a man who was managing a local pub and our neighbour (and my mums friend) worked there. My mum and dad had a summer BBQ and my mum invited the man she was having an affair with (obv we didnt know at the time)
She went on to leave my dad (well he actually threw her out when he discovered the affair a few weeks later) and is now married to this man - however I cannot ever forgive her for blatantly parading him around OUR HOME in front of us and the deceit that would have involved. He shook my dads hand etc.
The rest of the 'affair' is neither here nor there for me- my dad is very happily married now to my Stepmum- but as already stated, the knowledge that he was at our home that day is something that i will never ever forget or forgive.
Just wanna add my thoughts on this topic.
I always believe that when a marriage goes bad, that there are always 2 ppl accountable for that. Relationship is always about relating with one another either with someone you love or friend. From following your story, I would like to advise you not to rush your decision. Take your time to meditate and pray for God's guidance. It's not always easy when kids are involved becos they are innocent and shld not fall victim.
In a functioning relationship you have you, your partner (in this case your wife) and your relationship. All these three needs taking care of. I dont want to go into who did wrong and who did right becos I'm not living with you. My main point is for review your whole situation and evaluate what is more important to you, working long hours, being the dad at home and caring for wife. You have to find a practicable balance. Your kids don't really see enough of their dad due to your long hours at the office, so for them moving would't really make a big difference in their life.
I believe that your wife loves otherwise she wouldn't say yes on your wedding day. The problem is that she is human and human make mistakes. In throwing away her phone, she is trying to protect you from more hurt. I would suggest that she severe ties with her boss and job. An ideal situation is to change enviroment and start new again.
I can't judge if you are nice man or not becos I've not heard from your wife. But I do have sympathy for you and know how hurtful it is. Just LISTEN to your self and decide with your head.
Some kids come through their parents separating, others do not. Eitherway what is more important is showing your kids how much you love them and how much they mean to you. Becos with your current career situation I don't know how often you've been doing that.
I'm afraid I agree with FolkGirl. Your account of the wife's behaviour is too generous, Voice.
This was an on-going affair and if OP hadn't discovered it, it would be continuing. She lied, and lied and minimized and he still hasn't got to a plausible truth. He has seen talk of love, etc.
And worse for OP, this is over the period of their wedding. The lead-up to it, the day itself and the aftermath. This timing does make it particularly horrendous. How can he ever look back on his wedding day with happiness?
folkgirl "the OP is not responsible for his cheating wife's mental health"
He loves her. She is a human being. He is a decent person. They are married. She parents his children. They love her. Of course he should take some responsibility for helping her to get through if she is at risk of self harm. It is not, of course, in any way his fault but that is a different point.
Your comment has absolutely taken my breath away and is what I meant when I said some posters are not engaging real thought and an understanding that this is not a game when they post. Think about the possibility that someone might just take you literally before you say daft stuff on forums. Seriously. Knee jerk emotional responses are not necessarily helpful to the OP.
If the wife loved him - in the proper sense of the word - of love and respect - she wouldn't have invited her other man to be at the wedding, she wouldn't have been fucking the OM before and after the wedding.
Bryant, you are victim blaming here. The OP was working hard to support his family. If the wife had a problem with that, she should have told him, not embarked on an affair.
Last point for folkgirl: As a purely practical matter, how exactly would it help the OP if his wife had a nervous breakdown and/or took an overdose? How would it help his children? How would that make him feel any better?
On the main point of this thread, human beings make mistakes. ALL of us. And we need a chance of forgiveness. If the OP and his wife can resolve this, then that would be the best outcome most of all for the children and so should not be written off as a possibility. An affair is not always proof of the cheater not loving their spouse. There can be all sorts of factors at play.
OP take some advice in RL from experts and not from MN. I wish you well.
Where is the OM in this situation. Has he been in contact with you since discovery/ Is he shitting himself that his DW finds out about this longstanding affair,
OP your wif must be a very good liar to have managed to conduct this affair so discreetly for so long. Your life for a long time and your entire married life has been built on a lie.
I am so sorry but an affair conducted so successfully and so close to home for so long would have me running screaming for the hills.
You deserve so much better
Mini monty.. Wise words I couldn't have said it better and OP that's exactly what your mates will say to you.
As for the small... I'm all about the revenge.. Love it. Glad it made you feel better! I'd have done a lot worse
It really is early days, you need time for all this to sink in.. The anger will come, it always does. You don't have to make any decisions now.. Leave her hanging. I find silence works wonders in situations like this. Let her do the talking she will dig a very big hole and you won't have to say a thing.
You sound like a lovely Guy, who has been seriously unappreciated. You deserve better than this.. We all do. Marriage vows are the glue that holds us together she doesn't believe in them. What was the point in getting married. Your coping so well hang in there.
email! Not small bloody iPhone
VoiceofRaisin I have been where the OP is. My stbxh has threatened suicide and had a breakdown all brought on by the exposure of his affair.
I pushed him to it and he sought medical help. He is now receiving CBT to deal with the feelings of guilt he has that are so great he has, on occasion, considered ending it to escape. Feelings of failure as a father. Feelings of failure as a husband. Feelings of failure as a man and as a human being.
I don't want him to feel like this, of course I don't! I married him, I still care about him, he has two children and other family who love him. I would be truly sorry if anything happened to him, because he made a fucking huge clanger of a mistake, yes, but he's still a person!
But it is not, and was not, my place to take on the responsibility for his mental health. I have heard a lot over the last year about how his feelings are more important than mine, about how what he feels trumps everyone else's feelings. My priority was making sure that I was ok and that the children were ok. And that needs to be the OP's priority too.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I discovered my ExP had been lying to me for 2 years and he left me for someone else. That was nearly 9 years ago and it's been one of the most formative experiences of my adult life.
I simply did not know how capable he was at lying and how little I really knew him. It took another 2 years of "drip drip" for me to really know in my soul who is was and how manipulated I had been. It was unsettling and hurtful and depressing. I was changed as a person fundamentally.
What I learnt is what you are told is the tip of the iceberg. This could be because of shame, embarrassment, self preservation or the desire to remain in control. Recently there was a study about those who lie and it was shown to be addictive like gambling is. There's a thrill in the getting away with it, a power kick and buzz. I think this describes my Ex perfectly. Even in the face of irrefutable evidence he would continue to lie - he was in a hole so he kept digging!
I have no definitive opinions about your wife.
My advice to you
1. Try to eat well
2. Try to sleep / rest
3. Try to remove yourself from any dramatic situations with this other guy / your wife (her histrionics are designed to deflect and make her seem like the victim). Don't get sucked into their dramas.
4. Make no important decisions. Sleep on everything. At least 7 times!
I imagine You're wired on adrenalin / stress / anger / confusion and hurt. None of those are sensible foundations for good decisions. It's fine to say nothing to your W. it's fine to reserve judgement. It's fine to bide your time. It's fine to say you don't know if you want to stay together or forgive. It's also fine to change your mind if you feel differently next week.
Most importantly surround yourself with those you love and trust. You're vulnerable and wounded and like with any injury you need time to convalesce and recover.
I never said that what the wife did is right. My point is based on identifying the cause of such an action, evaluating and moving forward. Maybe the wife is very good at lying, I don't know. I wouldn't be too quick to condemn someones character afterall OP married her after 10 years of being together. So she couldn't that bad and don't forget she is the mother of his children. She deserves respect from us.
Just because you've jettisoned a baby through your fanny, it doesn't make you the Virgin Mary. Mothers can be nasty people too....
FFS, I married my stbxh after being together for 10 years. Before we got together, I used to wish he loved me because I thought the girl he ended up with would be the luckiest person alive - he was so kind and thoughtful and romantic.
Didn't stop him though.
I am absolutely astounded at some people's comments about the wife. She is no different to a cheating husband. And I don't see too many people as quick to defend them and their actions on this type of thread. And certainly no one ever suggesting they deserve our respect!!!
emailed the email he sent to my wife of his cock to the entire football team we played for, probably a bad idea but it felt good.
I bet it did.
I'm glad you are getting some space with her away from you.
And no matter what has been said here, this is YOUR decision. Do NOT let her control that decision. What she has done, SHE has done. It's not to do with you. SHE chose to do it and if you do decide you can't trust her again then it's not your fault at all if you do split. It's all HER doing.
I tried to forgive and forget, but it didn't take long at all to realise I couldn't do it.
Trust takes years to build, seconds to break and forever to repair. If it's lost it's not easily found and if it is found it's never the same again
Good luck OP in whatever you decide to do.
Well done Upsethusband to taking time apart to think and evaluate things and the future.
I hope you both find the clarity you need to progress forward be that together or by separating.
It's not easy finding someone you love has cheated on you and I know how you feel and what you are going through
Even criminals derserve our respect. But she did not not commit any crime outside hurting and betraying her hubby. She deserves my respect absolutely.
I'm sure she'll be very grateful...
"Even criminals derserve our respect. But she did not not commit any crime outside hurting and betraying her hubby. She deserves my respect absolutely."
Must remember to use a gender-reversed version of that one on the next 'My Husband is Having an Affair' thread. Bet it'll go down really well.
OP you sound amazingly together given the shock you've had. I'd probably fall apart completely if DH did that to me.
But she did not not commit any crime outside hurting and betraying her hubby. She deserves my respect absolutely.
I think that's fine, so long as you write similarly when women are posting in absolute shock and heartbreak after discovering their husbands' affairs. "He hasn't committed a crime beyond hurting and betraying you. Your husband deserves my absolute respect".
Criminals do not deserve our respect. What an odd thing to say.
Cheating is not a crime, but cheaters do not get respect from me either. Respect is not a given right, it is earnt, through behaviour. Shitty behaviour (breaking the law, for example, or having the om watching you get married) lose my respect
Trying to see things from a different perspective will provide OP a solid platform to form a judgement. It would have been easier for me to join the bandwagon and tell him to throw her, that she is disgrace etc.
But the reason we have a forum is for people to offer different opinions and angles to a topic.
I believe that friends of OP would have told him all that has been written and suggested in this forum.
At the end of the OP has to decide not us.
Pls don't take my point out of context. Shld read the thread before this throughly before commenting. I was just responding to what someone wrote before.
Well I don't respect criminals!!!!
Why on earth should I????
That makes no sense to me what-so-ever.
"Trying to see things from a different perspective will provide OP a solid platform to form a judgement. "
Looking forward to you posting the same advice to a betrayed wife then, Bryant. Will be looking out for it, in fact.
So sorry to read about what you're going through. I just joined myself ( I am man) to ask some opinions from women too, so I think it's fine to post here.
Echoing many of the comments above, it sounds to me like she has been deceiving you on a few levels-and I think that it doesn't really matter if they have had sex or not now it's got to this stage. It all sounds a bit fresh; I think you need some time to see how you feel about her and what's happened. If it were me, I wouldn't make any snap decisions. I would need to work out how I was feeling. You do, of course, deserve the truth and maybe you can illicit that from her. Any decision you make needs to be based on the facts.
If my girlfriend had done this, I think I would find it hard to get past it, but it wouldn't be impossible. She definitely needs to have no more contact with this other bloke though (who sounds like a real nasty piece of work, by the way).
Best of luck mate.
OP. You will always get a mixed barrel of opinions. You do sound very sensible and obviously want to do what is best for your children. There are always shouts of LTB (leave the bastard) when something like this happens, but you and only you, can decide what you want to happen next.
Some time apart will give you both space to work out what you both want to happen next. As I said previously, she needs to stop all contact with this man.
She has betrayed you and hurt you badly. Yes there are two people in a relationship, but if there have been any problems, then you sit down and talk about them, you don't find somebody else to put your time and emotions into.
My Xh walked out with no warning, suddenly announced that he didn't love me. He came up with a million reasons why, none of which he had ever bothered to sit down and talk about, so I was oblivious to these many "problems".
You can only fix a problem when you know it is there.
Your story rings bells with me in that the OW that my XH is "best friends" with, was cheating on her boyfriend. She stopped seeing OM, married the boyfriend, then started seeing OM again. She then left her husband within 12 months and married OM a couple of years later. Her parents were still paying for the wedding when she left her first H. She is now cheating on husband number 2 with my XH. Sometimes people get caught up in a situation, other times, they simply don't give a toss about what they are doing and who they hurt.
Please do think very carefully about what you want and if you both want to continue the marriage, whether or not you could ever forgive her for what she has done.
As for the photo, probably not a good idea , but . We all have dreams of revenge like that, but it is better to remain dignified if you can.
OP I'm glad that you asked her to leave.
You do need the space to think, and process what has happened.
The crying and threatening to take her own life is because of the shame, humiliation, and horror that all has been found out, and all the sordid details as well. She realised that the shit had hit the fan, and that your family, her family, all your friends and all her work colleagues would find out now.
Getting her to leave is the best thing. Good luck with the future and keep posting.
Bryant I have already read the whole thread, and am well aware what you were responding to. My position regarding respect still stands. What she has done is massively disrespectful to the OP. I think she deserves compassion for her 'mental health issues' if they are real, and not just a ploy to manipulate her poor dh.
I don't think OP should throw her out, but temporary space is necessary for him to decide what he wants. It's too hard for him to see clearly what he wants/needs while he is more inclined to care for her because she is upset.
Looking forward to you posting the same advice to a betrayed wife then, Bryant. Will be looking out for it, in fact
My opinion is not based on gender. I'm a man.
I'm not trying to be biased.
Well I don't respect criminals!!!!
Try to read the whole context before jumping to conclusion.
Even criminals derserve [sic] our respect.
Yes, I can't think how hellsbells jumped to the conclusion that you were suggesting criminals deserved respect.
If you do go down the divorce route, then you need to think about childcare for when the children is with you. I know you say that she needs to bring them up because she works shorter hours. If the marriage breaks down she may chose to pursue a career and work much longer hours, and your children may anyway end up with a nanny, while you get to see them just every other weekend. In your shoes I would push for 50/50 custody and have a good nanny in place yourself, preferably the same nanny for stability.
Remember, you did not cause this. Your wife opted to marry you, have you pay out for a big wedding, while she was engaging in an affair with your mate.
As usual, please lets not derail, and feed it.
Upsethusband, emailing photo to football team Good for you.
Please allow yourself plenty of time and space to grieve and be sad.
Your wife has carelessly (and deliberately) broken something incredibly precious. Your relationship with her will never be the same. If you decide you want to stay with her and try to make things work, you will be embarking on a new relationship.
If an adult is unhappy in any relationship, they have a responsibility (to that relationship, if they care) to talk about their dissatisfaction and attempt to find a solution to improve things with their partner. A solution which does not involve hurting the someone who you are supposed to love and care about more than anyone else.
My DB is going through this atm, his wife of 2 years had an affair with a family friend, they were gonna start trying for a family very soon, and he is naturally devastated, but hes not willing to forgive her, i dont think he could ever forget her betrayal and the public apology on FB (boak).
My ex had an emotional affair and he eventually left me after 8 months, i wish i had kicked him out on day 1, things might have been different, but i left it 8 months, took an overdose because i was so depressed and he left the same day. I dont know how someone can be so cruel.
Now that the first step is taken.
The second step is to evaluate your position and try to be objective about it. You know your wife better than any of us. I trust you to make the right call. But before you do that you need to find peace within yourself.
Breakups is a common social trend but it is not always the solution. There is no solution at all. This is the point where you need your whole knowledge of your wife, your family daily situations, your children and lastly your relationship.
Lastly pray that God will assist you in whatever way you choose to go.
I agree Cogito
It is harder for men than for women because the children have to come first, as the OP says, and in this case they will stay with their mother as she is best placed to care for them and bring them up. This means that if the OP walks away from his marriage, he will largely walk away from his children and his family home. That is a very big step.
folkgirl sorry for what you have gone through. Well done for ensuring your STBXH has got the help he needs. I am sorry you were told that his needs came ABOVE those of you and your children. Clearly that is not right. You have however adopted a slightly more nuanced position than in your earlier post - you recognise completely that you don't want anything bad to happen to the cheating spouse and that you helped yours to receive treatment. That is all I am advising the OP. Your first post came across a bit as "wash your hands of her mental problems" which would have been poor advice and, if taken, could result in a sad outcome for everyone involved. I think we agree really!
Breakups is a common social trend
You know, I'm thankful they are if they reflect the fact that people have choice and don't have to stay in an unhappy relationship due to financial or social or religious reasons.
Lastly pray that God will assist you in whatever way you choose to go
and please send your donation cheque made payable to.....
Lets all hold hands now.
Is it OK to knock people's religious beliefs on Mumsnet now then?
OP - I hope you photo-shopped the photo! I'm sorry I haven't anything more constructive to add and I hope you are bearing up.
..I am amazed to see the kind of bigotry on here that I would normally associate with the mail online. Although I am new here, I would imagine that religion bashing/mocking belongs elsewhere.
OP, you sound like a lovely bloke, and your determination to do the right thing for your children shines through! Good luck finding your way forward, and I hope you heal from this, find a work-life balance that enables you to spend time with your children (don't put yourself down by saying things like "she's a better mum than I am a dad" - as a single parent myself, I know how hard it is to find time and energy with your children after a whole day at work, but honestly I'm sure you're doing the best you can, and you certainly don't come across as having a "Disney dad" mindset, i.e. cherry picking the fun bits of parenting). And long term, I hope you find someone who appreciates you properly and deserves someone as nice as you.
And Vivacia - Amen to that sister!
Pouchy, NormalDude - Religion can be a force for good, but is also frequently used as an excuse to keep people in relationships which are dead in the water (I will never forgive the religious elders in my sister's community - non Christian - for encouraging her to stay in a physically abusive relationship because "marriage is sacred" - balls to that, there's nothing sacred about a husband beating the shit out of his wife). The poster who's come on here is not offering Christian compassion (I have been privileged to know a number of very lovely Christians who offer enormous and loving, and importantly, no-strings-attached support - like the wonderful Catholic priest who supported one of my best friends through the catastrophic aftermath of an affair); rather he/she is on here to push their own religious world view on people who don't want it.
I see it differently- they were offering the advice that was asked for- advice comes in many different forms. The OP takes what info/opinion/advice he wants and ignores the rest. I'll not debate further; it's detracting from the original purpose of the thread.
I have screen grabs of all the emails and FB messages colluding afterwards.
You mean they were colluding after the discovery?
You are being very generous to her in that case Upset.
colluding after when? The wedding or your discovery.
And apologies for all the bickering going on here, without consideration of you, upsethusband.
I think you are doing the right thing with getting space, and posting on here. You sound like you are really dealing with it, one step at a time.
The photo to the footie team was a great idea! Your wife is not going to come out of this smelling of roses. She will have to grow up a lot in order to deal with the humiliation, but I hope she can and will do this.
Does the OM (other man's) partner know?
I'm guessing she'll know everything after the photo stunt.
OP first of all! I hope you're ok. Of course you're not really but I hope you know what I mean
Secondly, one thing shone out like a beacon from your posts yesterday. You said "I know when she's lying." Well, sorry to be brutal but quite clearly you don't. Because otherwise she wouldn't have been able to conduct this affir for goodness knows how long.
People in these situations change into someone you don't know. They look the same, they act the same in many instances, but all the while they are conducting this second secret version of themselves. It is devastating when you realise it. And see it. I also speak from bitter experience.
Hmm...I can understand why you felt the temptation to forward the photo but it was probably not your best move. Sending indecent material by email constitutes a criminal offence under the Communications Act. I wouldn't do any more forwarding if I were you.
"Does the OM (other man's) partner know?"
Time to send another cock pic
Probably also worth taking the advice on getting lawyered up, OP. Better to assume the worst could happen at this point
Please please please op don't send any more pictures. It might've felt good at the time but I promise you'll regret it later if you do
Is there any chance they are denying sex and hiding evidence because full sex affair is needed as grounds for divorce because of adultery?
I find it how easy it is for some ppl to mock my religion without even touching the topic on board. I'm fine with it.
The problem is that my opinion was not meant for them but for OP. So pls keep your thoughts and believe to yourself.
No religion is telling you be in a relationship even if you are unhappy. Pls for God's sake, try to be objective!!!!
God bless USA!!!!
Unreasonable behaviour could definitely be cited here I think.
Raisin if it did come across as "wash your hands" then it wasn't intended to . But it's really unfair for the wronged person to feel responsible for the MH of the person who betrayed them. When you're in that position it's all you can do to get from one end of the day to the other, eat, get dressed, get the children to school... feeling responsible for another person's MH, when they have caused so much damage to your own just isn't on.
Because of the confusion, shock and betrayal, though, you can end up thinking it was your fault or that you should be the person to try and make them feel better because you aren't thinking straight and your overwhelming drive is to Make Things Better.
The OP is clearly a decent chap, who sounds like he'd do the right thing anyway. I just didn't want him to feel like he needed to take care of his 'wife' now too.
Full sex affair is not needed as grounds for divorce.
They could be denying it for any number of reasons: They've been lying for months - they are used to it/this is what they do. They don't want you or his wife to find out because you will be so hurt/angry/leave/go for custody etc. etc. They don't want you to find out because this will destroy the image of themselves that they have as 'good people'.
I think you were right earlier when you said it hardly makes any difference. She is still communicating with him, covering up with him, going to him before she goes to you and lying to you. If she were serious about making this up to you, this would have to stop.
FWIW: I would say Cock shots, 'I love you's', hooking up at parties and events away, in most cases would indicates full sex.
Is there any chance they are denying sex and hiding evidence because full sex affair is needed as grounds for divorce because of adultery?
Its possible, although you can cite unreasonable behaviour, you dont need that to be granted a divorce.
Its also possible, that finding the full truth means she can claim it wasnt the worst you think it is.
Well done for trolling a thread where someone really needs help. Marvellous.
OP I have no idea about the adultery question. I think maybe they're not thinking that far ahead and just are about damage limitation.
Re the colluding afterwards, do you mean colluding after they have been found out? Because if that is so that really means she has bugger all respect for you and is only concerned with herself and the other man.
Sorry OP that there is a bit of strange posting on the thread.
You take what advice you need. If you are a very strict Church attending Christian and/or Captain America I am sure there are some posts on this thread which will have pertinent advice. If not you can just ignore them or treat them with the contempt they deserve.
I don't think there needs to be any particular reason for them to be denying having sex. If that is indeed what's happening, they're just doing what cheaters do, which is minimising and admitting the least they can get away with. And if I understand you correctly, they are colluding after discovery, so it is quite possible they would be telling the same story and sounding very plausible about it.
Personally, I would bet my last tenner they have.
I realise you don't necessarily see the sex as the important bit. The reason people have been very focussed on it here is that if your wife is still lying to you, you have no hope of really moving forward or making a truly united attempt to save the marriage, if that's what you both want. Full disclosure is the only possible first step.
Bloody phone!!! Sorry!
I was trying to say I wasted
years hours and hours of my life trying to second guess why ExP had done what he did, whether he loved me, whether he was depressed, why had he walked out, why wouldn't he see DS etc. the list goes on.
My point is maybe they are lying / maybe they aren't. Deal with the facts and the truths you have. I nearly drove myself insane trying to piece it all together. The whys, the how's destroyed me and I thought if only I just knew then I would feel better / understand.
But the reality is ExP never gave me a straight answer and I wasted a lot of energy on trying to find out.
If you want to divorce for adultery, then you do need evidence of a sexual relationship. an emotional affair is not grounds for adultery, although I used it for Unreasonable Behaviour grounds.
She is lying because she does not want you to know the full extent because there may be no going back if you know everything that has gone on. There may be no going back anyway.
You've had so much good advice.
Just a few bits more from me then:
You are wise not to throw her out and change the locks. You need to remain dignified over this and denying her contact with the children will not only hurt her but also them and they haven't done anything wrong. So yes, do keep things civil and sensible for their sake. I have been caught up in parents rows and in them using me and my siblings as a weapon and it's not nice at all, it just stores up problems for when they become adults and start to have relationships of their own and of course, it will reflect in their future relationship with both of you.
As for revenge - be careful. You could make him into a victim if you go too far.
To be honest you are right, it doesn't matter whether or not they had sex. She told him that she loves him. To me that would be the ultimate betrayal.
I might have missed this but other than crying and revealing bit by bit her liturgy of shame, what has she done about all of this? Does she still love you? Has she suggested counselling or offered to move out? Has she offered anything by way of explanation?
You know, you blamed yourself earlier on by saying she lived in your shadow. Please don't do this. Every marriage has its problems. At the moment my dh works 12 hour shifts 4 days a week. He doesn't get home until 7pm on those nights and then by 9pm every night because of his body clock, he's asleep. It's causing problems between us but the answer does not lie in an affair.
She married you whilst seeing him, that is pretty, gobsmackingly awful. I wonder if this man, her boss, had been single whether she would have married you at all? Did she only marry you because you had children together and she thought it was the 'right' thing to do?
You need to sit down and have a discussion with her, preferably with a counsellor present. You need to know if she does love you. Would she have left you for him if he had left his wife? Does she still love him?
If she doesn't love you then you can't really go on I don't think. You will always be looking over your shoulder, wondering where she is and what she's doing. That trust will never be replaced.
Her actions right now will speak volumes about her intentions. You need to know what she wants and don't accept "don't know" as an answer. She must have thought of the future and what she really wanted out of life. If that is a life without you then please don't hang onto this lost cause, let go and start afresh. You sound absolutely lovely. You are obviously very thoughtful, in touch with your emotions, loving and understanding. You are not the kind of man to face his future alone - there is someone out there for you. It may not be her but someone who actually deserves all the love you have to give.
Yes a split will be hard on the kids but only if you both make it so. Kids are resilient and if both parents pledge to do all they can to bring the kids up in a loving environment then they will still thrive and go on to have loving relationships of their own. It's how you both handle it that makes the difference.
Good luck, your wife obviously has no idea what a catch she had and perhaps her and her cheating boss deserve each other.
were you ppl having problems before in your relationship?
Was the marriage an attempt to save the relationship?
Not knowing the state of relationship before finding out makes it difficult to offer a good advice.
That's a great post rhubarb.
Yes please don't blame yourself for working long hours. Yes it can cause resentment, but the solution for that is to bloody talk about it, and to try and resolve the problem together, not to say bollocks to it and go and meet someone else. I know just how it is working stupidly long hours, had how it is expected of you by employers.
I think probably the worst bit of this is that she married you when she was having the affair and invited the married man. That's the bit I would find impossible to forgive I think. That is such a visceral betrayal. On your wedding day, when she should have been thinking of you, she said those vows probably with her kind on the other man watching her in the congregation.
If she was fooling around on the side for a few months because she was going through a moment of madness, well that would be one thing. But to marry you - that seems very cynical and cruel of her indeed. It's really unforgivable in my eyes.
Her mind on the other man I meant to say
Not my mind on the other man! I meant that it would be unforgiveable in my eyes too, especially since she's told him she loves him.
That just sounded so wrong coming straight after your post GetOrf!
I don't think she invited the other man (her boss). The other man (her boss) happens to play soccer with her man. So both of them actually know the other man (her boss). I think he was invited as a friend not as her boss. Pls correct me if I'm wrong!
I don't think it matters in what capacity he was invited really, Bryant.
It doesn't really matter who invited him, presumably the invitation came from them both.
What matters is that she allowed the man she was shagging to be in the room while she married the OP.
She didn't have to let that happen. There were a lot of choices she could have made, at a lot of points leading up to that, that could have avoided doing something so monumentally cruel and disrespectful to another person.
Bryant, it doesnt matter who invited him, he was still there grinning away with the knowledge, he had gone way way over the line with his mates bride.
Upset, dont think you working long hard hours is the reason she had an affair.
My BIL, works away from home sometimes, but my Dsis loves her husband, she trusts him and he trusts her, and my Dsis, does things she likes when he isnt there. If she was unhappy, she should have told you, she had this affair because she wanted too.
Dont take any blame in this, because it will eat you up.
Well it doesn't matter. It was just for the records.
From what OP said, the boss happens to be known for that kind of behaviour. Just wondering if someone else in his team knew what was happening b4 it got exposed.
My guess as to why they are denying sex/evidence etc is because they both know they are good grounds for divorce and losing their 'good name/reputation'....and the fact that they are desperately trying to believe their own bullshit - "we're not THAT bad,it was just innocent flirtation" etc. Maybe they think if they say it out loud often enough the magic fairy will change the past and they will be vindicated!
which brings me back to her motivation/reason for marrying you when she was clearly loving somebody else. You say you got married in July...that's only 4 months ago (i'm so sorry). I guess one reasin why she's hiding/denying the full truth may be because-not only can you divorce her (you'd have to wait at least a year)-but you could probably have the marriage annulled considering she entered into it fraudulently......
thereby scuppering her chances of getting her hands on what's left of your savings (after spending most of it on giving her the big wedding she wanted) and your future earnings.
I know you might be thinking there's no way she could be so calculating or greedy or cruel....but she can. She's already proved that and more.
Please get some legal advice and take the necessary steps to protect yourself and your children. Even if you decide to stay together that advice and protection can only benefit you....especially if there's a repeat performance later on down the line.
"I guess one reasin why she's hiding/denying the full truth may be because-not only can you divorce her (you'd have to wait at least a year)-but you could probably have the marriage annulled considering she entered into it fraudulently......
thereby scuppering her chances of getting her hands on what's left of your savings (after spending most of it on giving her the big wedding she wanted) and your future earnings."
Yes, this had also occurred to me.
I am de-lurking to give you some cyber moral support.
OP, you have acted with dignity throughout - until you sent the naked picture to the football team. But I understand why you did it. Just be careful that your need for revenge doesn't plunge you into a space where you breach the law on 'indecent communication'.
^If a message sent is grossly offensive, indecent, obscene, menacing or false it is irrelevant whether it was received. The offence is one of sending, so it is committed when the sending takes place. The test for "grossly offensive" was stated by the House of Lords in DPP v Collins  1 WLR 2223 to be whether the message would cause gross offence to those to whom it relates (in that case ethnic minorities), who need not be the recipients. The case also said that it is justifiable under ECHR Art 10(2) to prosecute somebody who has used the public telecommunications system to leave racist messages.
A person guilty of an offence under section 127 CA 2003 shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine or to both. This offence is part of the fixed penalty scheme. ^
If one of the wives of the football team opens their DH's mail, you could find the police knocking at your door. That is the last thing I would wish for you at this time. There is enough trauma in your life at the moment without you facing any more issues because of a moment of weakness, anger and revenge.
You could have reported that indecent picture to the police and they would now be knocking on the door of your wife's boss/adultery complicitor.
I am glad that you and your DW have agreed to have some space to think. I am heartened that both sets of parents have been told. It signals an honesty and openness that is necessary to move forward to the next stage of your marriage (whatever that might be).
The fact that both sets of parents have rallied round and given the necessary space is laudible. It is not for them to sort out the issue; their role is to give space and unilateral support.
Like you, I can't understand how someone would make marriage vows knowing that they were having an affair and would continue to have an affair for as long as you didn't find out. And to have the affair partner in the same room is just a slap around your face!
I do suspect that the phone went into the river because of more damaging evidence than a message saying, "I love you". You already know that that they were planning a joint (double bedroom) trip in December, and then when you were going to work away again next year.
Whilst there are secrets and lies, there is part of a person which isn't available to their partner. There are plans for a 2nd, parallel life that don't include you or the DCs. Those plans signal disrespect for you, her current life and her children.
It is okay for someone to cancel a wedding if they have doubts - even after 2 children and many years past-history together. The taking of the marriage vows 3 months ago with the adultery-partner in the room is beyond forgiveness for me: particularly when they were now planning a December meet-up. That would be my deal-breaker!
This is a forum for discussion. You will get different opinions.
It is your real life - and only you can decide the way forward.
I wish you the very best of luck and love in your life ahead. You definitely deserve happiness and a totally loving partner who puts you and your family above all else.
Great posts from Rhubarb and GetOrf. And can we ignore the more... unusual postings? I don't think, infuriating as they can be and atrociously bad as I am myself at not rising to it, that the derailings on this thread are helping the OP.
OP I think you're handling things just fine - you're 3/4 days in and things are still very surreal, I'd imagine.
You can't legally change the locks, so I'm glad you aren't doing it. And amping up the hostility won't help anyway. But I do think legal advice would be a very good idea, just so you know the lie of the land.
People caught cheating almost always insist there was no sex. It happens on threads here way more often than any other response from the cheater. The OP often thinks it was probably true because they're used to trusting their partner, but posters always say "nyah, they're lying." Then as the OP posts more, the cheater eventually admits it. I think cheats deny because they're on the defensive, and so in the habit of covering up by that point they do it as a reflex. It won't be about divorce - the only grounds for divorce is irretrievable breakdown of the relationship, and then you have facts you can use to prove that. Adultery is one, but so too is unreasonable behaviour and what she's done is ample proof of that! So the sex aspect is only relevant because if she's genuinely remorseful and wants to try to rebuild, she has to be honest, even when she doesn't want to be. I agree her betrayal is huge irrespective of the mechanics.
I hope you're trying to eat and rest. I know I keep banging on about this and probably sound like your mum, but you do sound so kind, calm and reasonable and those traits are unlikely to hold, or combine with rationality, if you're sleep deprived and malnourished even more than you need to be.
You can't annul the marriage under these grounds in England and Wales. Possibly in the USA, no clue, but they do have fraudulent misrepresentation there as grounds I believe - we don't here. I'm happy to go over the grounds if people want me to, but these facts would not provide grounds for annulmentI. The affair itself is not legally relevant to the marriage's validity in this country.
Yes, that's why I didn't post suggesting annulment when I thought of it, because I wasn't sure of the legals.
However, the fact that an annulment wouldn't be possible doesn't remove fear of annulment as a motivation for lying about the sex.
She might well be lying and destroying evidence in the mistaken belief that if sex is admitted or proven that it will affect her in any divorce/annulment proceedings.
Yeah, that's possible - but the thing is, people always do lie about that from the evidence of threads here, even when they aren't married, don't they. I think it's more reflex than that: they're caught out so they lie instinctively (after all, they've been lying by omission and usually directly for a while now so it's nothing new), and then they don't want to shift from that position. It could be more calculated, but given how universal it seems to be, I think it's more a reflex. Whether that's habit through the affair, or just a defensive response, I don't know. But they all seem to do it.
Sorry further background, I've known him for around 9 years, first started working with him and then he invited me to join the football team he plays for. We've become closer friends as time have gone by, drinking sessions, trips away etc...
5 years ago I left to setup my own business and my wife went to work for them 5 years ago. She stopped for our daughter (don't worry she looks just like me) and then she went back to work a couple of years ago.
Over the last year they have become closer, after work drinks became a London to Brighton with training rides, to conferences in London where they stayed over to work parties to booking a work ski trip.
Every event was booked with other people there, obviously now to look normal. She has been distant a number of times, neglectful and always looking for something else. I confronted her 4 weeks ago and she flat denied it but has continued.
He has become a lot closer recently, some how ending up at all the events we were going to and interested in ones I am going to only to not be able to come. Obviously after reading some texts he was just doing this to find out when I was away.
What a mess!
Hello ppl we are not discussing criminal proceedings here.
I don't think she thought these far. Those of who have had such experiences knows that the cheating one doesn't think that far. She's so focused on not getting caught. I wonder if she shares her "adventure" with her best friends like most women do
Oh yes, absolutely, I agree.
But the OP was looking for possible motivations for her lies (rather than just ongoing deceitfulness and unwillingness to be honest) and I think that is a possible motivation.
The point, I guess, is that she might have reasons to believe it is in her interests to lie that go beyond trying to preserve her reputation.
OP one reason I think you need to see a lawyer is that while behaviour has no impact at all on financial arrangements, length of marriage usually does (or did, anyway) and I don't know what current thinking is when a long relationship but very short marriage is at stake, especially with kids. It may make no difference, or it may reduce your liabilities - to her, as opposed to the kids. I absolutely appreciate that you want your kids housed in their own home and well provided for, and I completely applaud that, but you have things such as pension splitting and any other assets to consider, too.
I do think in this situation a decent solicitor's advice might be invaluable - whether or not you ever need to rely upon it.
There's not really any downside to seeing a lawyer to find out what your position would be in the event of a divorce.
It doesn't commit you to any course of action, but it might provide some clarity for you.
Yes, that would be my thinking too. Knowledge is always a handy thing.
Well after hearing that OP I think this has been going on a long time, he is no friend and would be very interesting what his wife makes of all this?!
Stay strong, it's gonna be a difficult time but your wife is only upset as she was found out, to be honest she sounds a nasty piece of work, I'm sorry
She does not sound like a nasty piece of work!
She sounds like someone who has fucked up big time for, probably, stupid reasons.
She sounds like a nasty piece of work to me.
Whatever her reasons were, the way she has behaved is incredibly callous and cruel and her response to being found out is manipulative and self-serving in the extreme.
Totally agree with you Nauticant.
Least they are being sensible and she is respecting Upsethusband by staying elsewhere so they can clear their heads.
Hopefully they both will reflect on things and what has happened and come to a decision as to where their futures lay
She may not be a nasty piece of work normally but what she has done is exceptionally nasty.
Your wife has played you and so has your friend.
I am so sorry.
Stay dignified and perhaps seek legal advice.
Perhaps she has it in her not to be a nasty piece of work if she does some serious work on herself, but right now her deliberate actions over recent months show her to be selfish, uncaring, cruel, heartless, dishonest and manipulative.
There's nastier than that, but not much.
She may well be a nasty piece of work and has been selfish and stupid.
All I'm thinking is that the 9 year old will have some idea of what infidelity is and will be heartbroken and the 3 year old just wouldn't understand anything apart from that her mum has been kicked out of the house.
Vengeance and retribution in this instance has more than one victim.
This was posted a while back now, by saggytummy but it is really bad advice:
I would not insist on an sti test, she had an affair she wasn't sleeping around with lots of men and yes I know it only takes one but she only may have Dtd with the om.
Please get yourself tested asap OP. She may not have had sex with him but if she did, as I am sure you are aware, she may have put herself at risk.
Saggy suggested that it's ok because it's only one sexual partner but, in all honesty, you don't know if he is sleeping with anyone else, or if his wife is. No-one knows. The only really safe and sensible action is to get yourself tested and do not have sex with your dw unless she has a clean bill of health.
upsethusband do you have anyone in real life you can go to right now? You see, advice on a forum is all very well but we don't know you personally and some people will say things on a forum that they don't mean or wouldn't say in real life. Everyone is advising you based on their own experiences of relationships, as I probably am. This is where counsellors come into their own because they are trained to look at your situation completely unbiasedly and offer straightforward advice accordingly, often encouraging you to form your own conclusions and come to a solution which suits you both.
For now I think you need some proper emotional support. Formerly you would have turned to your wife for this but you can no longer do that so you need to turn to someone else. Do you have a good friend who can come round or who you can meet in the pub? Any siblings? Could your parents look after the children whilst you take a couple of days off work to try and sort this whole thing out?
Please do take whatever is posted on here with a pinch of salt. Obviously there is some very good advice here that you can consider and will help you to ask all the right questions, but others may not be relevant to you or your situation.
You need to have a heart to heart with someone who knows both of you.
Kids don't know anything, she is going to her parents with our daughter to see her mum who is 'unwell'. It's all cool.
Also she has screwed up massively but she isn't Anastasia piece of work, I'm not being naive but she just isn't, she never has been. I don't need her slated, just the advice.
The great thing is that I have ignored a lot of the more extreme views but picked up some key things I would never have considered so thanks and much love to all!
Anastasiapieceofwork would make a neat username.
I agree a counsellor would be great - help you untangle how you feel about it all, in a safe place and with someone impartial.
I admire the ability to separate actions from person themselves - that's always hard. And I hope you get some useful honesty and constructive conversations, both with/from her and with/from yourself, in the days and weeks ahead. It's a hard road but you do sound like you have your head so thoroughly well screwed-on.
I hope your loyalty to her is deserved, op. Recently, she has shown more loyalty to her other man than to you. I hope she can change.
I didn't mean to upset you OP but think you need to wake up and smell the coffee, someone who married you knowing that she was carrying on with another man, sex or no sex, although I think we all suspect the former, has only now become upset because you have found out and probably had no intention of ending it otherwise, especially knowing that children and the other mans wife would be affected, To me that doesn't make a very nice person
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Oh the betrayal by someone you considered a mate has to be almost as bad somehow!
I'm so sorry that this is happening!
Try to stay calm, this really wasn't your fault, and you can't make it all better. Her going away needs to happen, she needs to have time alone to allow herself to think, and you to heal a bit. Well, gather your thoughts a little.
Upset, this is going to be a long haul, but whatever you need, we're here ok?
I'm with kingrollo a bit of empathy wouldn't go amis, man or woman deserve it.
OP you're doing great. Keep talking and stay strong, we're here for you
Anastasia may be my new code word for a nasty piece of work! You've started something there OP!
I've read all the replies, I think the OP is acting amazingly well here and with a lot of grace and dignity (not sure I could do it like this if it happened to me) I think her going away for a while might do you both some good. I can imagine she is sorry now - but is she sorry she's been found out more than sorry about what she's done? I'd always be questioning how much longer they would of carried it on for if it was me, and that might be something to bare in mind. I can see you love her, your loyalty and sticking up for her a lot still says a lot and you deserve so much more but as the above poster says, it will take time to come to a decision on what you want to do. Hope you're OK OP.
I agree is there anyone in real life you can really talk to about this? What about your mum and dad? Do you have any brothers or sisters or really good mates?
We can all support you but it's not the same as having someone there who can give you a hug, shoulder to cry on, make you coffee/supply you fags etc.
I agree with --mum- perfect storm, are you eating and sleeping? You sound so very calm it's almost as if it hasn't hit you yet. I'm concerned that it's such a devastating blow. I have been in a similar situation and was absolutely fine and sanguine until a few weeks later where I just started crying and crying.
You do sound very caring, just hope there is someone there to care about you.
Just a few of questions which you may have missed amongst all these posts OP - has your dw stopped seeing him, has she given up her job and does she use mumsnet?
I will say again, I am not trying to upset the OP, I have lots of empathy for him and think he is doing really well under the circumstances, but like someone said, he seems very calm and I don't want him to bury his head in the sand and ignore what's going on,
strump I don't think the wife deserves any empathy do you? She's broken this mans heart
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Ok everyone, I will do what kingrollo wants and step back, I will say no more on the subject except to wish upsethusband all the best and hope everything turns out well for him and his family,
So no she is not on Mumsnet. Those worrying about whether I am eating, don't worry I am, I destroyed a BK bacon double cheeseburger and it tasted great.
This evening she took our 3 year old down to her parents, my idea, being alone will be difficult so she has someone to focus on.
As easy as it is for people to say leave her, this is absolutely heartbreaking. She has made a huge mistake and lied / deceived but we've been together for 11 years happily.
Some may suggest she deserves it but I am hurting and I love her. Some will say she has probably done it before but I doubt it, I saw a huge change in character so that is how I figured out. Some will say she only cares because she got caught but her reactions are natural.
It is such a mess and every decision seems wrong, some for me, some for her, some for the kids and some for all of us.
Of course her reactions are normal, as are yours. Both of your worlds have been turned upside down and will never be the same again.
The only thing that makes it difficult to really have sympathy for her is that, if you hadn't found out, she would still be carrying on with him. Right now.
She would be texting, telling him she loved him, arranging to meet up with him. He would be sending pictures of himself and maybe she would be sending back naked pictures of herself. She would still be doing all this if you didn't know.
Is she still seeing him? Has she quit her job?
I agree with Fairenuff this would still be going on if you hadn't found out and if i were you, that is what I'd have difficulty accepting to. I'm not saying WHAT i would of done as you aren't me but I'm sure someone admitting something and owning up is better than you having to find out. At least it shows some sort of guilt and feeling for you and that they are trying to make things better.
Glad to hear you are eating!
She has been to work a couple of half days this week, I don't want to tell her to quit just in case it doesn't work out between us as she'll need the job.
No, OP, you shouldn't have to tell her to quit. That should have been the first thing she did, off her own back. To prove to you that she is being honest when she says it's over with him and she wants to work on the relationship with you.
It's not over with him.
She is keeping her options open.
I think that tells you all you need to know about her intentions.
She offered but I said no. Also I think it is, his wife found out and went mad but now they are trying to sort it out. Seems easier for them but I doubt she knows the whole truth.
I'd be at least making sure she is looking hard for a new job if you don't think it's right for her to quit! Especially if you think you two staying together is a possible option
She offered to stop seeing him, but you said no? Why would you do that?
It seems clear that you are so confused and upset that you're not thinking straight.
I think you need time and space. It will do her some good to be left with her thoughts and to be living with uncertainty about the future.
Take your time.
Upset If you plan on working on your marriage, then she will have to leave her job, because you will never feel settled again, knowing she will see him everyday. All those work trips will feel like a stab in the heart.
OP, you come across as very fair and very dignified. You're coping amazingly well with a difficult situation. I hope you get the real life support that you need.
Ultimately, we can all tell you what we would do in your situation (or at least, what we think we would do), but only you can really say what is right for your situation, and that may require a lot of long, hard thought. There aren't any right or wrong responses, only what will be best for you, your children and your wife.
Nothing further to add by way of 'advice', but a 'behind the scenes' dynamic could be developing thusly,,,,,
Given the longevity of this affair, it's entirely likely that both DW and OM were content with the situation - cosy homes with (ignorant) spouses - cheap thrills on the side.
OPs discovery has lobbed a stool, if not the entire shit, into the fan.
Right now, DW doesn't know what the OP is gonna do. OM might well get to thinking that his convenient mistress has mutated into a threat to his own marriage. As a potentially single woman who's lost her security, she might well want more attention from him. "I thought you loved me!",, "Ohh, uhh,, not THAT much."
Since DW showed little respect for her own vows, I can't see her having more for OMs.
Who knows where their heads are at right now? They'll BOTH be fretting, for sure.
"Seems easier for them but I doubt she knows the whole truth."
Neither do you.
And you know you don't, because you saw her destroy the evidence.
Because she prefers that you never know than than she should ever be an honest person.
Sorry about the trolling earlier.
OP, I think that you need to make sure that your DW is in fact taking this time to think over your marriage and is not in contact with the OM. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember reading anything up thread about her finishing with him and you did mention that they were planning a future together and saying I love you. What if the OM decides that he wants to be with your wife? You need to make sure this is not happening behind your back.
I also think that whilst you are being so nice (to your credit) I think that your wife will always see that she has this option. This is actually why I made the point above, about making sure that she is not planning things with OM, even if he is not interested. You need to make sure you are not her consolation prize. I had a very serious problem with my husband about 9 years ago and we were about to separate. His actions and the way he treated me, now make me think that he had a brief affair. He treated me despicably. The more sad and heartbroken I was, the more he took advantage and poured scorn on me. After reading up a bit, I decided to turn the tables on him. One day after about 6 weeks, he said to me, well what are you going to do when you relocate back to your parents? I replied, what do you mean? Me and my friend XX have decided to take a year off and go travelling around the world and find a job in Australia. He flipped at the audacity of me getting on with my life and his attitude changed immediately. On another occasion when he was thinking of leaving, I got out the suitcase and offered to help him pack. It sounds scary, but turning the tables of control on your wife (not been angry or abusive) will shock her into realising what she has done and will make her make decision quickly. Your wife has you by the cojones, if you please excuse my rudeness and won't start paying you the respect you clearly deserve until you show her that you are not going to tolerate any more carp from her.
I have to say that there is a chance that she is using this time to "suss you out" to see how you are reacting, how reasonable you are/aren't being and is calculating what you will ask/demand of her and therefore how much or little she can get away with.
- If you had made her leave the house I think she would have immediately offered to do anything, anything you wanted, and done it. However you would always have it in the back of your mind that she was doing this because she didn't want to lose the children, not because she didn't want to lose you. Anyway, you didn't do this, and I think that was probably a wise move.
- If you had been in floods, begging her to stay, apologising for "whatever it was that made her have an affair", promising to be a better husband, she would have taken it as a free pass to carry on with the affair when the dust has settled. So thank goodness you didn't do that!
- What you seem to be doing though is saying "I am not sure whether our marriage will survive, but if it doesn't I will make sure the children don't lose out." Which is admirable. But - caution! - make sure this is not seen by her as "if we break up you will have lots of money and I will take the children off your hands every weekend so you can spend time with Mr Willy Email." Because I can see that she might act the meek and contrite wife for a while, you catch her out in contact with him again, you end it and are forever the Bastard for walking out on your DCs and she resumes the affair after a discreet period.
Beware beware beware!
I wouldn't be letting her take the children at all. How would you feel if she suddenly decides to have OM play happy families with them? You need to consider this.
OP I think you are in real danger of hoping for the best without preparing for the worst.
TBH the last few posts look like they could have been written by DW on a reverse Thread.
What Lazyjaney said here: ' I think you are in real danger of hoping for the best without preparing for the worst. '
I remember reading in a book I bought when my first marriage was breaking up that one of the biggest mistakes that the betrayed/deserted party can make is to be far too generous and far too reasonable in the (possibly only subconscious) belief that when the other party sees how kind, generous and reasonable they are they will see the error of their ways, and will start loving them again.
You can find yourself thinking the other person will slap themselves on the forehead and say "But xx is such a kind, lovely person! What am I doing?" But of course they have already betrayed you once and what happens if you are super kind and generous is that they take it all and think it is their due.
In my own case, I was devastated that my Ex didn't love me any more, and over the preceding few months I had felt that he didn't even like me any more. So when he expressed admiration for how reasonable I was being, it was the nicest thing he had said to me for ages. So of course I wanted to be even more reasonable to impress him further . . . daft bat! Should have hired a plane with a banner reading "Ex is a cunt" and flown it over his workplace.
Hi OP, hope you managed to get some rest. There is a lot to take in at the moment and you don't have to make any decisions right now.
Take some time, look after yourself, as others have said, eat as well as you can and rest when you can. Gather your trusted family around you and let them support you in your decisions, whatever you decide to do.
Whatever you feel, it is ok to feel. It is ok to change your mind. It is ok to ask for help. Keep posting here, keep talking here and elsewhere. Go at your own pace.
The biggest concern that I can see is that she loves the OM and she hasn't stopped seeing him. So, in effect, the affair is still continuing.
Upset No one on here can tell you how this will work out in the end as no one on here knows you or your wife or the RL dynamics between you.
In my experience a marriage can recover from an affair, but not unless both parties want it to. It is a long slow painful route, and not one that can be navigated if the guilty party is still in thrall to OM/OW, still sees them regularly, and still holds feelings for them.
Be careful that you are not the back up plan. Unless she is desperate to keep you, and acting in a way that shows you that, protect yourself and don't be taken for a fool.
Most ppl on this forum angry and wants action taken against the wife. Some wants OP to leave his and children, to go to a lawyer etc. That is human nature, we always seek revenge, want to restore our pride etc. OP can get this sort of advice anywhere, in a pub, on the street etc. But I don't think that this is what OP wants to hear right now and I will like to implore to ppl to rise above this 0815 advice becos this forum is more refined than that.
I think a rational and constructive opinion is better than revenge actions that helps us feel good in the short term.
You shld seek professional help. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Look at the Clintons, Rooneys. Terrys, Giggs etc, it worked for them.
Tiger Woods, Lampards etc, it didn't work for them. It is 50/50. But for that you need to be at peace with yourself and think rationally.
In my first Post, I mentioned that when a marriage dosen't work, the two involved shld look at themselves and take the blame. From your Posts, I think that your wife got close to her boss over the years of knowing each other and working together. When adults get that close, most times the outcome is not always good. I'm not trying to excuse her from her wrongdoing. What she did is not right but we are over that point by now. Maybe in the last 5 years, you were so busy in setting up with your bussiness that you failed to notice the signs.
Looking at the future, you have to learn to make out time for your loved ones. Partners need to communicate more with each other. Some are good at that, others are not. That's why we go into relationship, to find someone who complement us.
The difficulty is if your DW still has strong feelings for the OM how does she stop that? You can't just turn feelings off, especially if they are strong lustful ones.
There are times when I still think of my ex. We had a great physical relationship and I yearn for it sometimes, but mentally we didn't work and I love my DP very much. However if I saw my ex everyday I would struggle, I'll be honest, I think my feelings would get very confused and old sparks could start smouldering again.
I just can't see how she can continue to work with this man and make the marriage work.
Bryant the betrayed party is not to blame because he was busy trusting his partner and the vows she made, and working hard to provide for his family. He is not to blame one jot because of that. I don't like your victim-blaming attitude.
the betrayed party is not to blame because he was busy trusting his partner and the vows she made, and working hard to provide for his family. He is not to blame one jot because of that. I don't like your victim-blaming attitude
I'm not blaming OP but rather stating the facts. Everyone works hard but still we have to fulfill our obligations as father or hubby. Otherwise you remain single and pursue your career. I'M NOT BLAMING HIM BUT WHEN A MARRIAGE FAILS EVERYONE NEEDS TO STAND UP & BE AND LOOK AT HIMSELF, OTHERWISE WE CONTINUE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKES.
The partner and the kids are not furniture that you maintain with money. I'm not saying what the wife did was right.
Nice bit of victim blaming going on there Bryant Upsethusband please don't buy any of that, "being busy" does not excuse your partner starting an affair, ffs. Sometimes I have been wrapped up in myself and probably neglected my DP and he has plenty of female friends, he hasn't ever cheated. This is not the ops fault.
upsethusband so she has offered to quit her job, but has she stated that she will stop seeing him?
You haven't really told us much about what she is doing to and try and salvage what's left of her marriage.
She married you whilst seeing another man.
She spent most of her time juggling things around so that she could spend more time with him.
She colluded with him to lie to you.
She told him that she loves him.
Have you asked her outright what she wants from all of this?
We know that you want to save your marriage and do what is right for you and her and the kids - but what does she want?
It's no good if she decides to stay with you because of guilt alone. That will not make a happy marriage.
You say you have been happy for 11 years but has she? Obviously not if she got involved with him.
She took the cowards way out of having an affair but the cause remains the same; she must not have been happy with her life the way it is. Now there could be a million reasons for that; she might have been bored; it could have been pure lust; she might have wanted an escape or she might have actually loved him more than you.
I know this is not what you want to hear or even think about because it's bloody painful but mate, your wife said she loved another man. I doubt she would have said that unless she meant it.
You may want to work things out but do you have a Plan B in case she doesn't? Her boss may be patching things up with his wife but that doesn't mean to say that she can now transfer all her love to you. Something is terribly wrong with your marriage if she loves someone else.
Right now she is scared. She is scared of losing the children; of her reputation being torn to shreds; of losing the nice home she has with your income helping to support her. She is probably even more scared now she realises that her boss has no intention of leaving his wife for her. Perhaps she was hoping that he would? She'll probably go along with your suggestions for now because she knows that you love her, that you want to forgive her and she has a chance of getting everything back to normal - but is that what she really wants?
I think you need to be booking that counsellor and have a Plan B prepared because as much as you might be ready to forgive her and welcome her back into your arms, she could have other ideas.
If the love isn't there, you need to accept that and not push her to start again. You can't force her to be happy with you and as much as it might hurt, you may need to just let her go.
A couple of my friends have recovered from affairs. One of them even says it was the best thing that ever happened to them as a couple as they were inhabiting a relationship death-zone and something needed to change. A horrid way of making positive changes but still.
Good luck, OP.
I think it best if we all ignore certain postings. They often derail the thread.
I like your line of thoughts.
Forget about this victim blaming comments becos I dont know OP.
"She married you whilst seeing another man.
She spent most of her time juggling things around so that she could spend more time with him.
She colluded with him to lie to you.
She told him that she loves him."
All this, as Rhubarb says, plus she still won't admit that they were having sex.
The changes, the running, the effort, has to come from her, not you, and I fear that if you just accept what has happened, then she will lose whatever respect she has left for you. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, Op, I get that but I would suggest you get a solicitors advice quickly.
She has to stop seeing him, as a minimum, and for you as a couple to have any chance of a future, she needs to tell you the truth now and why she said she loved him etc. etc.
Everyone works hard but still we have to fulfill our obligations as father or hubby
Bryant what obligations are you accusing the OP of not fulfilling that would cause a partner to cheat?
OP what actions is your wife taking to win back your trust and marriage?
I think she needs to leave work, OP. She can look for another job. It will be impossible to mend either marriage whilst they are working together. The discovery has been recent, everyone is in shock and doing their best. Give it a few months - how can they put that level of desire/ lust/ 'love' on hold forever? In my experience, affairs can become even more intense when it is 'us against everyone else'.
I believe the OP and his wife are having a few days apart to clear heads and reflect on what has happened and what they both want from the future before he goes charging off to the solicitors.
I think he is being very sensible in asking for this time apart (and also this stops the children picking up on stress and atmosphere in the house). The solicitors will still be there if/when he decides that is the route to take once they have had chance to sit and talk.
Some of you seem to be asking questions he probably hasn't even asked himself yet let alone answer them, hence him asking his wife for some space.
Hope you are doing as well as can be expected OP
OP I've PM'd you.
It's in your inbox at the top right of the page next to My Mumsnet tab.
what obligations are you accusing the OP of not fulfilling that would cause a partner to cheat?
NOBODY is accusing OP of anything, for your correction. Let me turn the question on becos I'm not a woman, what would make a woman with such a background cheat on his hubby? Neglect, attention, doing things together or love.
I'm curious to know the state of the relationship before the marriage. Was the marriage meant to steady the ship, or was there already cracks in the relationship.
I think Bryant is just trying to offer an alternative view which might be relevant to some marriages but I don't think it's relevant here. Yes some partners can ignore their wives, leave them to bring up the children and never spend any time with them but upsethusband sounds like a sensitive and caring bloke who worked hard for his family yet still tried to spend time with them. He obviously dotes on his kids and is a very loving husband so I doubt there is anything he could have done to have prevented this from happening.
His wife was seeing this bloke before they got married and then afterwards. I think her heart was involved and possibly she really did love her boss and hoped that he would leave his wife for her.
As I've said before, my dh works 12 hours shifts and we often don't see him until 7pm. By 9pm he's asleep. It's a problem but I'm hardly going to be tempted to have an affair because of it. I love my husband and promised to be with him through the good times and the bad. We've had a chat about his hours and his tiredness and we're trying to resolve it. That's what you are supposed to do in a marriage, not just give up at the first hurdle and find someone else.
This man was always on the scene though by the sounds of it. It's bit like the Princess Diana situation in reverse.
Bryant the OP has said they were together for 11 years and were happy. He picked up on the affair after noticing a change in his wife. So we know that he's sensitive to changes in his wife and actually cares enough to explore the reasons behind those changes.
Her boss was his friend too and they spent a lot of time together, as mates do. His wife was seeing her boss before she got married to the OP and afterwards.
I think that answers a lot of the points you raised?
I do need to take exception with one point:
A couple of my friends have recovered from affairs. One of them even says it was the best thing that ever happened to them as a couple as they were inhabiting a relationship death-zone and something needed to change. A horrid way of making positive changes but still.
This happened as were planning our wedding and after we got married. I thought we were happy, this was meant to be one of the best periods of our life. Yes we argued pre-wedding about the wedding, and we argued after but this was mainly about her drawing away from me and spending all her time with her work colleagues.
What if we had of been in the 'death-zone' - who knows what would have happened.
I agree upsethusband I don't really see how an affair can be the best thing that ever happened to a marriage. All it shows is that the other person is capable of being a deceitful, cheating, selfish shit.
I would hope that my dh would at least give me the option of making positive changes before embarking on such drastic action and of course I would do the same. If someone doesn't even tell you what's wrong and decides to go off shagging someone else then how can you possibly be accused of not trying hard enough?
Oh blimey balloon slayer - awful that you have lived through something similar.
That is so wise what you said about not being too nice, of course you want to be reasonable, but dont be too reasonable to your own detriment.
Upset hsuan I didn't see that post about 'the best thing to have happened'. Of course you can never see it like that, as you say you were planning your wedding whilst she was having the affair. That's not a death zone of a relationship.
I find it quite upsetting that some people on this thread are kicking you when you're down, saying that you were building up your business, didn't have time for your wife, both of you were at fault. I think that is incredibly unfair. You being busy etc is NO excuse for her betraying you with someone else. It is NOT your fault whatsoever. I don't think anyone would say such a thing to you if you were a woman whose husband was having an affair, and you had just had a baby or something and were spending all your time looking after the baby.
Very good point GetOrf, I think a woman would get a very different response.
I made those comments. These are facts and not like I invented them. Not trying to kick him but I want him in the future not to make the same mistakes. I never said it was his fault whatsoever. In life we make choices and the made a choice to betray him.
Correction: I'm a man though.
Don't worry, I can take it. Everyone is entitled to a view and I know there are things I have done which have contributed but I am no way taking responsibility. She made her decisions and has to live with it.
She knows why I was working hard building the business and enjoyed the lifestyle which came with it and the education it provides our children.
I may seem soft but I am not, just tired, can't be bothered with confrontation.
Well, you didn't come on here for a row upset husband. You don't have to defend yourself or anything. Just take any advice that you want from here.
How are you feeling today? (Stupid question). Have you been able to talk to your parents or something?
Oh you sound so utterly fed up with it all!
I am so very very sorry this has happened to you. You don't deserve it, as you say, she enjoyed the lifestyle you provided and it's not like you weren't attentive. You noticed the changes in her personality and cared enough to investigate.
At the end of the day, she didn't have to go through with the marriage since she was in love with this other man, but she did and that was very cruel of her. She made a public commitment to you, in front of her lover, whilst no doubt her fingers were crossed behind her back. Why on earth did she do that?
Look after yourself. Don't be afraid to lean on friends, that's what they are there for. Take some time out for yourself and don't just mope around thinking the same old things over and over; get out and be distracted.
All of this will combine to grind you down if you let it. Go for a run, work up a sweat, arrange to meet friends in the pub this weekend, book yourself a fun day out with mates. You have worked very hard and there's no reason why you shouldn't also enjoy the fruits of your labour, so take a few days off and cram them with enjoyable things for YOU to do. Whether that's watching your team playing or going for a curry with the lads, now is your time to give yourself a little TLC.
I agree with rhubarb.
Try to lean on people as much as you can because you really need some support and some love and care. I don't know what your personality is like personally I am very 'everything's FINE' and try not to bother others and cut off my nose to spite my face. Try not to be like that, people generally will want to help.
I expect it feels bloody humiliating as well, but don't beat yourself up and try and think what you did wrong. She is the one who has betrayed you awfully and should be embarrassed by what she has done.
Are your family or friends spending time with you and helping you through it?
You know what it doesn't feel humiliating, it does for them two, news is spreading and it is shameful for them. I don't expect anyone to be laughing behind my back and f**k them if they are.
I am actually okay.
And yes plenty of friends to lean on...it's all good!
You sound very strong. I think I would be blaming myself for every last bloody thing and going over all conversations and scenarios in my head. Which is where madness lies.
Upset You need to spend a bit of time on you and your boundaries, and just do thinks that make you happy, you need to time work this all out, get over the shock and actually work through it, dont force yourself into deciding saving the marriage or divorcing, you just need to reclaim a little of time for yourself.
That's good about the friends.
Have you any idea what you are going to do next? Or are you still just using this time as breathing space.
You can swear on here as well! Many if us are potty mouthed twats
Upsethusband I keep reading this thread to see how you are - and you sound like you're coping extremely well.
My own brother in law is going through a similar situation, and is being similarly accommodating and lovely. I am in both parts sad for him that he is just 'rolling over' and taking it, and not fighting - but also proud and happy for him that he is shining through this horrible situation and showing himself to be such a good person.
I think the same is probably true for you - get through this with your head held high, and you will be the better person for it - and other people will see that too. Your wife, and the other man, are scrabbling around in the gutter trying to clear up their mess - you are shining through as the good man that you obviously are.
(as for emailing the D*ck photo - I thought that was hilarious, serves him right!!)
I hope you haven't been put off from MN with the heated responses you've had here. Keep filtering out the irrelevant and focus on what is relevant to you. There is a wealth of wisdom and support here.
My DB is currently getting loads of support from people after the discovery of his wife's affair, its times like this that you work out who your truely supportive friends are. DB's wife said to him, "Sorry, i love you, but im not ready to move back in yet", sure ok, she betrays him but she thinks she can decide if she gets move back in or not.
Point is Upset, You were betrayed, you have the right to make the right decisions, not just for your kids but for you aswell.
Also, what was the reaction for the dick photo, because i kinda hope OM is getting the cold shoulder, like he deserves.
Ouch Lucius, that sounds awful for your poor brother.
I know we shouldn't laugh at the dick photo, but I don't blame you for sending it. I hope it is as embarrassing a photo as can be, the smarmy git.
WHY send dick photos anyway. I have never understood it.
We can all be a victim of this kind of situation. I'm a man like you and I work sometimes long hours but I had to find a balance btw work and family.
I hope you dont take my comments personal becos I just wanted you to evaluate your own part in this whole marriage problem for the future. Its good to know that you have realised your own contribution but that dosent mean you are to be blamed for that.
I might be blunt in my comments but I do care abt what you are going thru. It can also happen to me.
GetOrf. I think men send dick photos because they find tit photos titillating and think women think the same way as them .
Ewww at the penis photo. Nothing like keeping it classy.
Having an affair at the time of your marriage is horrible but actually no more horrible than having an affair after 10 or 20 years marriage. Whatever vows you choose to make to one another are enduring and don't just last for the wedding day. And given you already had children together, the wedding was late in the day in your relationship. Was that because you didn't ask her before then or because she refused you, OP?
I try not to be too dichotomous a thinker when it comes to affairs and relationships. And I certainly would not shun a friend for having an affair. I could personally forgive an affair but there was a time when I don't think I would have been able to. In France it's practically compulsory to have and forgive affairs.
Only a gay man would be interested by a dick photo. Most women find them utterly off-putting. Just shows what a dick he was in sending it (ba boom!)
As for it possibly happening to you Bryant, well that depends what type of person you've married. As I've said, my dh also works long hours but we tend to talk about our problems. An affair isn't something women generally resort to whenever there's a problem in the marriage. In fact it's not as common for a woman to have an affair because by our very nature we tend to be more communicative and open.
If you think that your wife might have an affair if you didn't get the work/life balance right then you need to perhaps re-evaluate your marriage and your attitude towards her. I wonder how she would feel if she knew how you felt about her loyalty to you?
There are women (and men) who have stood by their partners through long periods apart (army, navy and so on), through dehabilitating illness, through extreme poverty and hardship and even through death, so don't taint everyone with the same brush. Yes you do have to work hard at marriage but an affair isn't a common occurence for when things go wrong.
LibraryBook huge generalisation there. Huge. I think many of my French friends would disagree with you.
"Having an affair at the time of your marriage is horrible but actually no more horrible than having an affair after 10 or 20 years marriage."
No, it's way more horrible.
To go through with a wedding while you are actually boffing a mutual friend, to say your vows and not even mean them AT THE TIME YOU ARE SAYING THEM.
That's different from having a lapse in monogamous feelings a decade or two in, when everything is settled and comfortable and life has got in the way.
I think a few people might be making excuses for affairs here. Like I said yesterday, posters can only speak from their own experiences.
"Having an affair at the time of your marriage is horrible but actually no more horrible than having an affair after 10 or 20 years marriage."
I disagree. It is terrible that at the point where you are making promises to share your life with each other, you are shagging someone else, someone who is your husbands friend and who is actually in the room watching you.
Of course, some affairs are worse than others. To me, this ranks pretty bloody highly on the out and out brutal scale.
For many couples, when times are hard, the wedding day is a day you look back on as a reminder of how in love you were. The OP doesn't have that now.
If you think that your wife might have an affair if you didn't get the work/life balance right then you need to perhaps re-evaluate your marriage and your attitude towards her. I wonder how she would feel if she knew how you felt about her loyalty to you?
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make there. I wanted OP to know that I was kicking when he is down like someone suggested becos it can happen to me. I dont question my wifes loyalty but I do know she is human and humans do make mistakes.
The point I found interesting in your comment is that women dont tend to cheat when there is problem in the marriage. So it is the attitude, if I get you right.
By going through with the marriage it does make me wonder if DW now has more claim financially if they were to divorce?
Missed some keywords from my previous post
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make there. I wanted OP to know that I was not kicking him when he is down like someone suggested, becos it can happen to me. I dont question my wifes loyalty but I do know she is human and humans do make mistakes
The point I found interesting in your comment is that women dont tend to cheat when there is problem in the marriage. So it is the attitude, if I get you right.
Bryant - I didn't say women don't "tend" to cheat, but statistically it is men who hold that title. I suggested this may be down to the fact that we can be more emotional and open with our feelings. Women's affairs, I would say, are more dangerous than men's affairs because women tend to have invested more (hence her saying that she loved her boss). Have you ever noted that it's usually the women who are convinced that he will leave his wife for her and not the other way around?
I suppose an affair can happen to anyone but personally I would blame the person who lied and cheated rather than the partner who worked hard and stayed loyal. I don't think there is any excuse for such deceit. If you no longer love your partner then you owe it to them to tell them, not to humilate them by holding onto them for convenience whilst you get your jollies with someone else.
I'm one of those who wouldn't forgive an affair, in case you haven't noticed . For me it wouldn't be so much about the sex they had but the feelings and emotions caught up in it all, as well as the sheer disrespect shown.
Bryant, with respect, you miss words, letters and punctuation all over the shop.
With respect and repeating what I and others said earlier, sometimes it is better not to engage with some posters as all it does is derail a thread and provide little of use to the OP.
you are right but men are not gifted like women who can do many things at the same time.
Irrespective of what happened, I think we shld still respect her wife. That's what I was taught by my mum, haha. The "victim" is also someone's sister and some kid's mum.
Bryant I got deleted yesterday when I spoke to you about this and no doubt will again. But please, this thread, where the op needs good strong practical and emotional support is not the place for you to beat your personal drums or have some esoteric debate about the propensity of women to cheat v men. Really it isn't. If you want to do that, start your own thread.
<smiles winningly towards MN Towers>
Thanks for your understanding and tolerance
Bryant247 don't worry, I don't really think there is anything someone I don't know on a message board can say to bother me. I am dealing with the last week quite well, silly posts are minor in the grand scheme of things.
I work hard but I don't neglect - I get home at a decent time, help with the kids, homework when I can but naturally she did more of that. Naturally I did more of the financial side. I thought it was a team effort.
She also didn't mind me working long hours as she knew our kids education was important and we like to have nice things in life.
I don't think work made that much difference, I expect it probably is the things I would say in a argument, I can be pretty cutting. But so could she. This is what makes it all so difficult to understand, life was pretty good.
I think Bryant makes some fair points and is no more controversial than some women posters I've debated with. Not on this thread anyway, I'm not on several threads at once and have no idea of his 'history' if he has one but I see no reason not to engage with him.
It's ok to remind us that his wife, who posters are calling a nasty piece of work, is also the mother of his children and someone's daughter. Sometimes we can dehumanise people in order to knock them and that's not always fair.
But Bryant, sarcastic comments about women are not conducive to the thread so please stick to giving advice to the OP. When someone's life has just fallen apart and they are asking for help, it's hardly the time to indulge in a little goading is it?
My point that I made earlier is that when a woman has an affair, at the risk of generalising, they 'tend' to invest more emotionally in that affair whereas men 'tend' to indulge in more lustful affairs. That's why a woman usually falls for the patter that he'll leave his wife for her, etc etc. I think that makes a huge difference in this case because she's already said that she was in love with her lover.
"life was pretty good."
It often is.
That's why people are saying that it's all on her.
SHE made the decision to cheat on you for her own reasons.
It was something she WANTED to do.
From the sounds of things this guy is a bit of a bad boy and a bit of a player and your wife found him more exciting and sexier than you.
I suspect she flattered herself that she'd finally be the one he left his wife for, but carried on with your wedding plans as a Plan B, until he was ready.
But the deficiency in your relationship was with HER. It was with the fact that she was able to make the decision to cheat on you and lie to you because that's what she wanted to do.
Could it be that although nothing was wrong in your marriage, she simply enjoyed getting the attention from another man?
Is she very pretty? Because if she is NOT, and she is not used to getting lots of attention, then suddenly getting it could be rather flattering.
I think she loved the attention and possibly because he is a good looking guy and a player it made her feel good.
And yes she is pretty, not just because I am saying it but she is absolutely stunning. Don't get the wrong impression of her though, it might seem like I am describing her as a WAG - far from it, she doesn't ever see how pretty she is but I always get the comment "you've done well lad" ;)
upsethusband stop beating yourself up so much, by the sounds of it there was nothing you could have said or done any differently. She was emotionally involved with him before she married you and I think she just wanted both of you personally. You to provide the stability and to be a father for her children and him to provide the excitement.
I am sure there have been lots of times when you have supported her, when you have sacrificed things for her sake and you did all of that willingly because you loved her. It seems a shame she couldn't do the same for you.
Don't let this experience turn you bitter. You can get through this but the fact that you are on Mumsnet all the time seems to me that you are thinking about this and going through this way too much. Switch off the pc, distract yourself and so something completely different. You can't clear your head whilst you are constantly reviewing every little detail.
Bryant. It's a pleasure. And thanks for the passive aggressive bullshit. <feels like a winning smile won't be enough now>
OP I'm struggling to see why you are defending her so vehemently and praising her up. Are you feeling defeated by it all? Don't be bamboozled by her pity party.
I'm not defending her, I'm just trying to understand without jumping to the most negative possible reason. I'm not in a bad place though, I'm starting to feel good, like I have clarity on many of the possible reasons it has happened.
Shit happens, life moves on, it won't ruin me in any way at all.
I'll be sorted, kids will be fine, her - who knows!!!
It is very therapeutic coming on here.
"like I have clarity on many of the possible reasons it has happened."
It didn't "happen".
This is something SHE did TO YOU.
There was no force of nature here, no inevitability.
This is a series of choices made by one human being, KNOWING how much they would devastate another.
Upset husband glad you are feeling ok and in a calm place x
We're happy to help upsethusband, you are dealing with the whole situation, including the many faces of Mumnset, with dignity and conviction. She was a fool to turn her back on you. Some people don't realise what they have until it's gone.
I wish you all the very best for the future and I hope you find your happy place soon.
we all say nasty things in the heat of the moment. That kills most times the emotion of a woman a little bit. That's why I tend to keep quite in heated arguements and then talk when everyone has piped down.
What I also noticed is that some women don't tend to tell their man exactly how they feel abt issues until it's 2late.
Just try to be fair in your decision. The world is bigger than you actually think.
On a more practical note: If you think you cannot move from this, forgive her and give the marriage another go, then since you have not been married very long maybe you should try annulling the marriage?
It's correct for you to look after your kids, but why should the cheater take all you've worked for so hard.
She can't take everything from me, she can take material things but in the end it doesn't matter. I'll be okay, I'm not that money motivated, I like nice things and a good life and I'll always have that whatever she takes.
However much other people think she is a demon or think she deserves nothing I wouldn't take any pleasure in watching her struggle, even though maybe I should.
I really didn't know what posting on here would achieve but it has helped a lot through these days. The whole thing has taught me a lot about myself too - obviously I am not to blame but I will approach certain things differently in the future.
The whole thing has taught me a lot about myself too - obviously I am not to blame but I will approach certain things differently in the future
That is the most important point for me.
What sorts of cutting things is it that you say to your DW in arguments? Do you think that might have a bearing on her self esteem? It strikes me that often women who have low self esteem are the ones who seek the boost of an affair - of being openly wanted, admired and wooed - even if they don't want to leave their marriage and would really prefer it if it were their DH doing the wanting and wooing. IME this seems especially common as women are coming out of their childbearing years, lifting their heads and looking around wondering what there is in life for them that is enjoyable and frivolous and not all nappies, fishfingers and bedtimes.
I don't think anyone thinks she's a demon op.
The question for me is why did she marry you when she was having an affair with your friend?
I can only imagine that she's very calculating - you say not - or very weak. Both reasons are horrible for you...
You sound v strong tho and it sounds like you've got healthy self esteem and lots of people cheering you on.
To me it kind of sounds like you indulge her like a child rather than seeing her as a grown woman who had full agency in her decision to have this affair.
You blame the guy, you say he manipulated her and was a player, you talk about the whole thing as if she was entirely passive in it.
ProfPlum as much as I admire you for wanting to see the other side of this, I don't think that trying to read things into what the OP has said will achieve much. He doesn't come across as the emotionally abuse type.
Haven't we all looked around us after our childbearing years and questioned our lives? We've not all embarked upon an affair though. It's a conscious decision that she has made. She could have chosen many other ways to express herself. She already had a career, she had friends and she sounded like she had a life outside of the humdrum of nappies and fish fingers as you put it.
She made a decision to have an affair with her boss, and friend of her partner, even before she got married.
I don't think that poor self-esteem is an excuse for lying and cheating. I don't think that anything is really.
Enjoyment takes many forms. I wouldn't find lying to my dh and carrying on an affair behind his back as an enjoyable activity. If anything, that sort of thing is bound to create more stress.
I think I also read that he was married too, with children of his own?
I definitely effected her self esteem - during our biggest arguments I said some bloody awful things. I can't pretend I didn't.
Also I honestly believe this was much more an emotional affair than a physical but crossed the boundaries. From everything I have found the evidence shows this.
Look mate, we all say things that are bloody hurtful and that we don't mean, that is the danger of arguments. However you can't just go off and have an affair after every argument, otherwise dh and I would have had loads!
You had arguments so perhaps that was a sign that things weren't quite right? The big argument, am I right in presuming that was when you were getting suspicious?
If you think that you went over the top with the things that you said to her then do consider this. If she was already having an affair at that point then it hardly makes any difference, but for your own sake, if you react to confrontation by tearing strips out of someone then maybe look at analysing why you feel the need to do this? To get a reaction? To see if they still care what you think about them? Or purely as a way to vent your anger?
But from the sounds of it, you are already considering the changes you need to make to your own attitude. You weren't the one having an affair, no matter what anyone else says to you on here, just remember that.
Some women on Mumsnet are having affairs themselves and may use this thread as a means to justify that.
This is so sad to read. I almost hope y
Upset when my DH was having an affair he he behaved is way that drove me to say things I would never normally say. In short he turned me into someone I wasn't, as a way of justifying to himself that his affair was perfectly reasonable as his wife was a half mad nag who hated him. That's normal, everyone who has an affair does this. It's how I'd know if he did it again. It's how most people find out in the first place.
Rhubarb talks a lot of sense, I agree with her post.
Good to hear that you are sounding a bit more upbeat today. Bear in mind that you will have good days and bad. I think your decision to give it some time is best for you. You can sit back and watch what she does. Actions speak louder than words.
If she continues to see him then I suppose you know that your marriage is over.
Honestly this phone has not been the same since the baby dribbled on it. Apologies ....
What I wanted to say was I almost hope you guys can find some way to be happy again as it sounds there was / is a lot of love there.
Do you think she'd have done anything if it wasn't for this guy? Not that it changes much but it kind of helps if your partner isn't someone always on the look out.
For some reason half my post is illiterate garbage. Apologies. I do have a brain, but it would appear to have taken the day off.
No I don't think it was about getting someone else, I think it was about him and the work situation. That said it could have been another job and another bloke - what I am trying to say is she isn't a slag.
Like Bryant I also don't believe that the wronged party in affairs is usually saintly, it usually takes 2 to tango. And I can see the OP leans to this view too.
But, in this case, with the affair happening before, during and after the marriage, plus little points made like phones in rivers, I think there are grounds for believing his DW may be playing a far more cynical game, and it's worth at least being as prepared for that case as for the former.
Hence I reiterate what I said earlier - I think you are behaving as if your DW is the best person she could be in the aftermath, while not covering yourself if she turns out not to be.
We all say bloody awful things.
I split temporarily with my partner last year. We love each other enormously, but there were a combination of things which upset us both. His business was affected by the recession, I started earning loads more than him, he felt emasculated, I was working stupid hours (leaving the house at 6, getting home at 9pm) in a really good job in London whilst he was just doing odds and sods, and I would waltz in and moan that the housework hadn't been done. We never spent time together and mutually resented one another and both were very unhappy and heartbroken.
We rowed and were spiteful to each other, said things we didn't mean just because we wanted to hurt the other person. It was bloody awful.
But in that time neither of us sought solace in someone else. We knew that that wouodnt be the answer and, difficult as things were, we KNEW that doing something like that would be so destructive and hurtful it would ruin everything. Even in the middle of real misery you CAN make a choice not to cross that line and have an affair with someone, as tempting and as easy it may be.
So I have little sympathy for her. She had a choice, so wasn't coerced, she is a grown woman who took a huge risk and now probably is very sorry and embarrassed she got caught.
People are confusing 'problems in a relationship' with 'having a affair'. If there are problems, the couple talk to each other about them, make compromises, resolve differences, seeking mediation if they need it, independent counselling, couples counselling or perhaps help from their gp if appropriate.
Cheating is not one of the choices. Cheating is an entirely different choice made by one of the couple, deliberately. The person who has been cheated on can never be responsible for that decision. The cheater is always 100% responsible for cheating.
The other party, the cheated on person, is responsible for their role in their relationship with their partner, and that is all. That is where their responsibility ends, so they cannot ever be blamed for their partner cheating. It is not their decision.
Fairenuff said what I wanted to say far more articulately and concisely.
And people who cheat do take a risk. They know what they might lose and they decide that the affair is worth the risk.
I hope you're OK op - your last few posts are odd!
I don't think anyone has said she's a slag OP. We have said she's a liar and a cheat yet you seem to portray her as some kind of victim, swept along on a tide and not responsible for her actions or able to face the consequences.
I can tell you that to conduct an affair for the length of time she has, you have to be pretty calculating and sly. Not some poor defenceless maiden. Sorry but I cannot understand your reactions - possibly because they weren't mine I suppose and we are all different. Don't you feel angry at all?
I'm worried that she's worming her way out of this. spinning you a yarn that she was just a bit naiave and he did all the running. But you have seen the emails where they plot to deceive you next month. I want to tell you to wake up and smell the coffee a bit!
Can I add my agreement to everything Fairenuff said?
Cock pictures really do not usually form part of an emotional affair.
Not on his side no. But she texted him to say she loved him Mist
Indeed she did. For many women love and sex go together (not always, I might add). She might love him, but she has also had sex with him.
Nor does kissing, groping and hotel rooms.
I'm sorry op, your argument that he was the instigator and it wasn't a physical thing just don't add up...I worry that when these beliefs are shattered you will be in shock all over again...
bitoutofpractise you cant tell OP to wake up and smell the coffee. i said exactly this upthread and got slated for it
"I hope you're OK op - your last few posts are odd!"
I said the same this morning, the last few OP posts seem almost like the DW is reading them ( or even writing them!)
My impression is the OP is desperate to believe in DWs innate goodness as a way out of this, when in fact there is a good possibility that is not at all the case, and he could be being outmanoeuvred as we speak.
And this was not a mainly "emotional affair", sorry, all the evidence points to something far more basic.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The reason we keep banging on about it, is because it will be near impossible to recover from unless he has the truth.
So far, she's been v economical with the truth.
- she said the photos were sent by a mistake- she lied.
- she said it finished before the wedding - she lied.
- she said it was just kissing...she threw her phone in the river.
How can he deal with this when she is refusing to let him no what he is dealing with? It seems cruel to me and I think op needs to be aware of this.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
He posted here- he's going to get a variety of views. I'm sure he can sift through them and take away from them what he needs.
"You know what, it doesn't matter what form the affair took or how the OP sounds"
I disagree, it matters hugely if you are basing your future life plans on a view that is possibly false.
I've seen so many heartbroken wives post here, with their husbands justifying affairs by complaining that the daily grind of work, young kids and money worries is boring and nobody ever thinks of their needs. Often to a wife with kids still waking through the night. I have a lot of sympathy with men and women who find these early years hard - my own husband does. So you know what he does? He talks to me. He arranges to see friends. He focuses on the reality that sometimes in life, in order to get what you want, things can be boring along the way, and that life is not all sparkly and exciting and delightful all the time. In fact, we're lucky we have it as good as we do.
The realities of adult life and adult responsibility don't justify affairs. That's adolescent entitlement. I've seen that said over and over again to women about straying spouses, and I'm afraid sauce for geese is equally palatable with ganders.
OP you do, as has been said, show immense dignity and fairness. I hope that your wife appreciates what she has jeopardised. As someone very happily married, your thought processes sound like my own husband's. And she is crazy to risk that sort of decency and genuine friendship and solid commitment to the wellbeing of her and your shared children for a deceitful, hurtful, emotionally feckless player. I don't know what you'll want from the future, and I suspect it's too soon for you to know that either, but I do very firmly believe you will be just fine, whatever transpires.
I think, once again, that people need to remember the OP only found out this weekend. He is very likely not yet connecting emotionally with the realities of all that has just changed. And I don't see any purpose or benefit in forcing him to, especially not at this painfully early stage. I do think he needs a chat with a solicitor just to work out where he stands - no commitment whatsoever to any particular future path, just information. But other than that, there's no rush. She's left the house to give him some thinking time, and nothing major is going on that requires him to act at once - there's no joint account clearing, or house sold from under him because it's in her sole name, or children removed permanently. There's no very time-constrained situation here; nothing to be risked or gained by speed. So how about people allow him to process all that has happened at a rate he can deal with?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Okay sorry if I sound odd at times. Never been in this position before and every day is different. Some days angry, some upset and some practical.
I doubt I'll ever know the full truth and on paper I am sure it sounds terrible.
But just say everything she has revealed now is true, it was just kissing, pictures and fantasy, does it make a difference? I mean is there a line which you can't cross? I feel like that line has been crossed with or without sex.
Oh I do hope I'm not trying to force him into feeling anything perfect storm and I'm very sorry if that's how I've come across. I also remember all too well and recently just how this feels. And the huge gamut of emotiosn you can go through in the space of 5 minutes, let alone a few days!
I am, TBH a bit concerned at some of the posts here. They just don't read "right" compared to the first post. But that may be because OP is just snatching a second on his phone or whatever to post here.
Whatever I hope the OP is OK and getting though
honeybeeridiculous I await my flaming!
Sorry, X post OP (it took me a long time to type that!)
I don't want to tell you how to feel. Just hope you're OK and not being crushed under this
Yes. They have most definitely crossed many many lines!
There is no line upsethusband It's all the same really, the line has been crossed with or without sex in my eyes. I have often said, an emotional affair would destroy me more than just a drunken shag, not saying I wouldn't be fuming but with the latter but the time and effort and sneaking around with texts/emails etc would be what would bug me more. Plus I'd always be thinking back to all the times they'd have come home to me every night, knowing they were getting their kicks from their precious e-mails/texts to. So no, you have every right to feel the way you do. Don't let her or anyone else try to make you feel like you are "overreacting" just because there, allegedly, wasn't any sex.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Op, you haven't said anything about how she is reacting to all this. What is she saying to you? Do you believe her to be remorseful?
What was the reaction to the photo you sent to the footie team?
I hope it works out for you but from reading your posts, I think you will be ok no matter what the outcome.
I firmly believe that people can recover from affairs and I would be inclined to forgive if I thought she was truly remorseful and I understood the reasons why she did it.
BTW, I know your parents know, but do hers?
I agree with Fairenuff on differentiating btw having an affair and running a relationship. That was spot on. Thanks for those words of wisdom.
OP has everyright to run thru emotions. That's what makes us human beings.
I believe the wife lost a bit of her self-esteem thru all those cuttings in arguements and the family friend being the boss (he is known for it and also handsome) manipulated her. But she has to take full responsibility of her actions.
I don't think OP is trying to defending her, he is only saying the facts, trying to be fair and expressing his opinions.
But it's still early days.
OP: Why don't u arrange to meet the wife of the boss, maybe she will help in filling the voids.
I actually get really annoyed when people start blaming the man because he has worked too hard and not spent enough time with the family. Men think differently to women. When they have a child they worry about how they are going to support it, what they can do to give them a good life. Women know that a cuddle and lots of love are a good start whereas a lot of men will immediately do their finances and start looking at investments or like my husband - we are going to need a bigger TV since we will be staying in more My DH works really long hours (leaves at 0645, comes back at 8.30pm and travels 1-2 weeks month including weekends. My DH just got back form a trip and I didn't see him for 11 days) and is out twice a week with clients. We live abroad, he works in finance and they want their pound of flesh off him. My MIL was really shocked to see my husband leave the house at 0645, get back at 8.30pm, then pack a bag and get on an 8-hour overnight flight to a meeting. My DH prides himself on the fact that he can afford nice holidays and things for us. Me, I am not really a material person but I fully appreciate that he does this for and this is his way of telling us that he loves us and he feels he is meeting his responsibilities. Tonight is Friday and he has to go out with a client. I't's not something I am going to throw my toys out of the pram over. My own DB works so hard in a stressful job that I have seen him taken to A&E with heart problems and seen boils on his head seal on drip down his face. His DW threatens divorce all the time over his working hours, but then in money mad and happily drops 1K on Christian Louboutin shoes.
So, OP please don't think that you working long hours is a reason to have an affair. It's not. You are a team. Me and my DH are a team. He is the Financial Controller and I am the Chauffeur, Chef, Nurse, Referee.
I mentioned above that I once had a bit of an incident with my husband when we were a lot younger and before kids. I have known my DH since he was 20 (now in 40's) and I think that one falling-out in this time is not too bad going. OP, you sound very like my husband, hard working, loves his wife and family, sensitive and caring. Let me tell you something. You are the best kind of man and you are also very rare. Please don't blame yourself for any of this as you don't deserve it. You are worth 10 other men. I'm glad you are feeling better.
I agreed with perfect storms wise words (again).
It is so new, the OP is probably still dazed by it all. It wouldn't be a good idea to make any decisions in the wake of what he had found out so recently.
upset the line is where you choose it to be. To be honest, I still the think the sex thing is a red herring. The fact is that even if they have not had full sex, they have done heavy foreplay anyway. And more than that they have really given theirselves to each other emotionally. That is the hardest betrayal I think. I think, looking pragmatically, of my DP got plastered one night and slept with someone he had never met before, I might be able to forgive that. But a long standing affair where they are emotionally entwined, in love, and all this going on when you are planning a wedding - that would cross the line for me. But that's me. Only you can know if what she has done is a compete dealbreaker for your relationship.
Also agree with IFAD about the working hours. Of course it's not ideal to work so hard, god knows I have been there and it causes resentment unless you talk about it. If she felt unhappy and neglected she should have told you, and you could have worked it out. Not fall for the charms of some bloke who showed some interest.
"But just say everything she has revealed now is true, it was just kissing, pictures and fantasy, does it make a difference?"
That's a red herring, she's crossed a line.
What's more important is you get to the bottom of whether you are with someone who sees you as Plan B or not. My impression over the last few posts is you are trying very hard to believe she is really-nice-but-led-astray-by-Mr-Player.
While it's very worthy to hope for the best, I'm afraid there is enough circumstantial evidence to prepare for the worst.
IMO it's better to get your legal etc advice sorted sooner than later, hard though it may be to want to do that. You lose nothing by doing so, but may lose a lot by not doing so.
Thanks iFad, nice on you to say.
Wow what a rollercoaster this is.
OP there is a lot of theorising going on here, but what jumps out at me is you have only known about this since last Saturday. That soon after discovery as I was still at the stage where I blamed myself and would have done literally anything to keep my DH.
Your emotions will move on with time, and you will be able to see that regardless of what you did, or said, her affair is not your fault. You might not feel that way now, but you will with time.
I'm with DH now, but it took an initial separation, my filing for divorce, many many conversations, and a complete change in him for me to get to the stage where starting again became the right decision.
For your own sanity I would ask her to move out to give you head space, and get some legal advice on your rights and obligations should you split. Many people on here advocate non communication, I don't, what saved my marriage was talking, reconnecting, and realising just how wrong we as a couple had gone.
I wish you luck. I also wish you a clear head and a strong will.
Agree long hours no excuse to have an affair. My DH has been away a lot in the last decade - it can be an excuse to sometimes feel resentful that they are not, through no fault of their own, around more, but not to have an affair.
We have a choice as to which jobs we take and what hours we work. It's not something that's imposed on you.
I'm wondering if the fact that the OP was only married when his eldest child was well into primary school is significant. Why did you wait so long? Was it because you didn't ask her to marry you or because you or she didn't want the commitment of marriage. Sometimes the damage in a relationship is historic but children and wider familiy keep us together, to hobble along, feeling aggrieved and wounded.
Librarybook not only is that post full of wild assumptions which go against everything that the op has said about his relationship, it also implies that the op is somehow to blame for the affair by not proposing soon enough.
And not everybody has a choice what hours they work, or what job they take if they are providing for their family. How naive.
you seem to attack anyone that has a different opinion as you. I don't in what world you live but you have to learn to be accomodating. It's pissing me off really. Calling ppl naive just becos they offered their like you.
you seem to attack anyone that has a different opinion as you. I don't know in what world you live but you have to learn to be accomodating. It's pissing me off really. Calling ppl naive just becos they have a different opinion
Completely agree with BitOut.
Bryant, coming from you that's unintentionally hilarious.
Insulting someone is not giving an opinion or arguement. This attitude has to change really!
Bryant, perhaps you should look to your own postings and then reflect on why you're the one constantly in dispute with pretty much everyone here?
Becos I don't think the way you do, doesn't make my posting wrong or right. There are a million different opinions on this subject. That's why its called a forum!!! Pulling thoughts together.
Many, many people manage to express different views without upsetting and/or angering almost everyone they encounter. If you aren't achieving that, then I would suggest you actually look to your own contributions and behaviour to others and reflect on why that is.
I am now going to go back to completely ignoring you, as I've done throughout the thread before now, because anything else is not going to help the OP, and this thread is about him, not you.
I don't know what your agenda is on being here, maybe to pass away time. You know better.
I'm just here to assist OP to reach a fair and balanced decision, taking into consideration all that might have before this unfateful situation!
you jumped into this. Never talked to you, rather to "BitOutOfPractice"
Please no arguing or name calling, everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone should respect it, we're all made differently and we all have different opinions. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, there is no right answer and there is no wrong answer.
Sorry if that sounds all hippy but I don't really enjoy people attacking each other.
LibraryBook so we've been together 11 years and we have a child who is 10 in April - from this you can probably guess the first child wasn't planned and the early days were difficult but we got through them and we had another child 6 years later.
I asked her to marry me when she was pregnant with our 3 year old - it just took 4 years to get around to actually pulling the wedding together. And yes it was me holding it up, I was still in my 20's, my friends didn't have kids and I had a 5 year old.
There is no doubt lots of history, lots of good times, bad times and pain. Still we made a commitment to be a team, for better for worse, to figure these things out together but she chose to figure it out with someone else. Whether it was emotional or physical it was outside of the marriage and with a friend.
Sorry it was me holding up asking her to marry me, not me holding up the wedding.
This is starting to feel like a court case. I think the only thing missing now is the other side of the story from the wife's perspective.
We've heard the prosecutions case, then the defence (these are now in tense negotiations in front of the judge). We've had the main witness take centre stage but I am sure there is mitigation if the whole story was to be heard.
I still think if there is love there is a way, but counselling would be the obvious route to find out why the affair took place.
I've agreed to do counselling and definitely want to avoid court - hopefully that can be the case as it will just cause more pain.
Has she agreed to counselling?
She suggested it - feels like we are off to find excuses
how are you, your wife and your kids doing?
You have not mentioned what effort (if any) your wife is making to get back to you. Are there common grounds for counselling?
Make sure you pick a good one. She may come up with excuses, but a very good councillor will see through that and call her on it, if they seem lame.
A good counsellor won't accept excuses. It's not meant to be a comfortable process, just a supported one, if that makes any sense? And at least you'll have some answers, if it's constructive. If it's not... well, you won't have lost anything, I guess?
It might also be worth having some individual counselling, so you can work through how you feel about all of this. It's so hard to do that, in my experience anyway, when something hugely life-altering happens.
counsellor.. definitely do not go to your local councillor
haha, sorry did I typo.
I don't think she is doing well, she is very upset, I don't think they are all crocodile tears, I think the reality of the situation is kicking in.
Kids are fine, and I am not making the decision of the kids. It could be worse for the kids for us to stay together unhappy. Also we're good enough and loving enough parents to make sure they come through it as best possible.
Bryant I have agreed with some of your posts but you do seem out to cause trouble with particular posters and I don't think this is the thread to do it on. If you respected the OP as much as you said you did, you would restrain yourself. It's not that difficult to do.
Librarybook we are in the middle of a recession with people losing their jobs and taking what they can, often working more hours just to make ends meet. Certainly that is what is happening to us. Dh works hard to pull money in and I have to juggle 3 jobs around the kids. We hardly spend much time together but are busy just keeping our heads above water. It's not ideal and trust me, we have both looked for other jobs. Neither of us are stupid enough to think that an affair is the answer though.
I wonder if the OP was a woman, whether they would be subjected to this much interrogation and certain amount of blaming?
Let's respect the OPs wishes and not start infighting again. It's disrespectful when you can take it to PMs.
Any idea which counselling service you are planning to use?
upsethusband be careful she isn't just upset because she has realised that actually she meant nothing more than a fling to lover-boy. Now she risks losing both her lover and you. I can imagine she would be crying real tears, yes.
You need to decide what you want too. If you feel you can't trust her again (and why would you?) then you might be better off going your separate ways as amicably as you can.
Lots of people have suggested counselling. I hope you do look into it.
I wonder if the OP was a woman, whether they would be subjected to this much interrogation and certain amount of blaming?
I've never, ever, in all my time on MN seen a thread where the victim of an affair is asked so often what they may have contributed to it. In fact I've never seen an affair when anyone has asked that at all before (they may exist, but I've never seen one), and when the OP worries about it, they are usually promptly reassured and references to the cheater's script made. It seems really unfair actually. This is the OP's support thread, and all other MN threads on infidelity are just that - unanimously supportive. Not sure why this one is so very different unless, as Rhubarb says, it's down to gender.
upsethusband that is such a good start. I am actually quite relieved for you as I've been worried about some of the advice on here. I'm sure Relate will help you both to determine your future either together or not.
Yes perfectstorm it does seem rather telling does it not? That's why I warned the OP about posters using this thread for their own means.