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To think it's odd that my mother didn't notice my son's injury?(79 Posts)
My oldest child is 3 so I don't know if I am being precious or not (my mother would say I am).
She was looking after my son last week and brought him home. I could hear his crying from the street so went to the front door and found him hysterical. I asked what happened and she said 'Oh, he wanted to run but he fell over.'
I asked where he was hurt and he couldn't tell me, and neither could she, but I checked him over and couldn't find any injuries. She left shortly afterwards. A few minutes later I noticed he had a grazed chin and half of his front tooth had been knocked out (diagonally).
I didn't see what happened on the street or how he fell over, but AIBU in thinking if a child knocks out half a tooth you would notice - ie surely they would be holding their mouth or something when you first went to them, or you'd see them fall and notice how they landed?
I rang her up and she sounded wary at first, and then reacted very dramatically, and blamed the council for it happening (uneven footpath). There is a lot of back story here, but all I really want to know is if it seems odd that she wasn't aware of his injury, or is that unreasonable?
Really odd, he would have probably had lots of bleeding from his him when it happened.
Depends. It depends a bit on the back story a bit I think x
It's a clean break and the chin was more of a graze.
But now that I have had time to think I am wondering if she brought him in and hoped enough time would go by before I noticed that I wouldn't be able to say for sure that it happened while she had him. She isn't one to 'own up' to mistakes.
I have dithered for too long over this. She's been having him once a week with my niece but I need to be there from now onwards. She has a pool, too, so if she doesn't notice a broken tooth then what else will she overlook?
It helps to have people tell me it's odd. I have been around her for far too long to see her objectively.
salad cream I've ranted on her a lot about her. Back story is she's a narcissist and I've always been her scapegoat, but I wanted to get objective opinions i.e. would a normal person not notice?
If there wasn't any blood, then she might not have noticed. He could have swallowed the tooth too. Possible.
I may have got the wrong end of the stick c
Steps away from the argument
Well it took you a bit of time to notice too, despite checking as you say in your op.
I hope you aren't F4J . If you are you've shat on you're strawberries very loudly!!!!!!!
saladcream I really don't know what you're referring to. I've reported your post. This is genuine.
You didn't notice at first either....
My son, when he was about 1 knocked his tooth exactly as you describe. Diagnally on the front tooth. I only noticed when I was feeding him his dinner. To this day, I have no idea how or when he did it.
what are you on about saladcream? Are you perhaps commenting on the wrong thread?
You didn't notice at first, she was just trying to get him back to you, into your house where he would be safer once an initial look over when she picked him up. I often have done this on the way to school. Whether you trust your mother to look after your ds is another matter and the pool would worry me - is it even gated and locked? I wouldn't pass judgement based on this event alone. Dd2's teachers hadn't even noticed that she had been sitting in class with a 2cm cut on her cheek all afternoon - I'll still send her in on Mon cos I generally trust them but if this was symptomatic of wider neglect it might be a different matter.
OK maybe i'm overthinking. I've got a four-week old newborn so am perhaps a bit irrational about it.
Saladcream do you think I'm a father's for justice campaigner? I'm not.
Bragmatic did you just leave it?
There's nothing irrational about being hyper-aware and cautious with a newborn! As a one-off, which you suggest this isn't, I wouldn't be worried about this.
I've reported salad cream too, it was the talk of PMs and journalists that did it for me.
Thanks Vivacia. My mother has the more relaxed 70s attitude to parenting but it seems to be getting more relaxed with time & with the pool as well I do think I need to be there from now onwards when she looks after him.
Had it just happened the fall as they were coming home or earlier that day, teeth bleed a lot when knocked dont they, not sure how you would not notice.
OP, I'd be mad too but as you said you didn't notice either.
I don't allow my mother to look after my children, I really think she is just not able. She forgets that small children are quick and run and just because you'd like them to sit and play nicely doesn't mean it's going to happen.
Saladcream, were you posting drunk or what?
I think that your mum may have overlooked this in the exact same way as you did when you gave him a check-over. So, in this instance I think you'd have to agree that it was easily missed.
However, if this happened when my DM was looking after DC I would know that it was just an oversight because there is no other history there. It seems that there may be in your case, so you need to proceed with whichever cautions you feel are appropriate, especially as there is a swimming pool involved, is this gated or alarmed?
Congratulations on your new baby too.
Yes, I did. It wasn't loose, nor was it causing him any pain. I took him to the dentist a couple of weeks after as he was due to go and the dentist said there was no need to do anything.
He is almost 7 now and he still has it. In fact he hasn't lost any baby teeth at all.
I'm guessing he did it by simply falling over - he was just learning to walk at the time. He fell often, would squawk, and then get up again. So I can see how I'd have missed it. I had 3 kids under the age of 3 at that point!
Plus he had had no other obvious facial injuries at the time. No cuts, grazes, fat lip or anything. I was flummoxed as to how it happened!
namechanged it had literally just happened as she got him out of the car to bring him to my front door. He was hysterical, but she was very vague on details about what had happened, which is often the case and one of the reasons I am thinking of not having her look after him anymore. The pool is gated and locked and used to be secure as it was rarely used but is now being used a lot more so that's another concern. I just worry that she isn't 'present' enough.
Juneau glad to hear I'm not alone in making this decision, it's a pity & I do feel a bit ripped off as she had my grandparents giving her afterschool care for pretty much our entire childhood (including school pick up every day and whole weekends) and I won't get anything like that. But that was good for me as they were lovely people, I miss them so much even now.
Anyway whatever happens I'm not going to bring it up with her, just change how things are done.
bragmatic we are going to the dentist tomorrow too. three kids under three, wow, yes, easy to miss in that situation. I guess you'll never know, and soon it will be gone anyway!
It sounds like it happened close to your house and he was rushing home. She wouldn't necessarily have noticed anything or even had the time to notice. You didn't notice yourself and he was probably unaware himself. If he has broken part of his tooth off, there probably wouldn't have been any blood unless his teeth went into the opposing soft tissue with the impact of the fall.
I don't think this incident as a stand alone event is much of an issue and typical of the sort of things that happen to children of his age. If you have other concerns, you need to address then with your mother to resolve them.
Hopefully he is feeling ok now and the tooth is not too problematic.
So it happened just before you saw him so shed have had less chance than you did to notice it but you didn't notice it either. Yes I think you're being over the top about it, sorry x
If she's a narcisst perhaps she just didn't want your ds to have all the attention for being hurt rather than on her and what a wonderful and perfect GM she is?
She may have just thought it was a bump with no injury and he was making a fuss over nothing...
Dd broke both her front milk teeth diagonally when she fell forward into a metal climbing frame ramp. She cried for a bit so I was comforting her but cheered up on the swing and when she smiled I noticed with horror a big gap. It was a huge shock.
randommess you understand where I'm coming from. She does tend to totally ignore crying and brushes over any concerns because she is 'so good with children'.
peacocklady you poor thing, I know how that feels too and you had both. It's such a shock!
I do feel a bit ripped off as she had my grandparents giving her afterschool care for pretty much our entire childhood (including school pick up every day and whole weekends) and I won't get anything like that.
You can't expect her to provide child care. I don't know why you'd feel ripped off.
I was still bf her and it was v painful! They looked like upside down devil horns. They became less sharp and less obvious over time and she's got a great big second set now all present and correct (she's 7 now!)
Vivacia I don't expect her to provide childcare. I've never asked and never will. I just wish I had more support, that's all.
Sorry for misunderstanding. What do you feel "ripped off" about?
You said you checked him over and didn't notice any injuries until later so do think its a little unfair to not be happy that she didn't!
Sometimes kids do fall and can't tell you where it hurts because they are in such a state
So this happened just outside your house, she checked for injuries and couldn't find any, so rushed him inside where you didn't notice any injuries either. Later, you noticed he'd broken a tooth and had a skinned chin - but it's her fault for not noticing? Eh?
My love, noo you know that this is not an ideal situation and that you are going to have to make other arrangements.
she's not a reliable person to leave your baby with. Please don't do that again?
I think the ripped off thing is understandable, it ISN'T fair that your mother is a narc, but she is. You suffered and now you have seen that your children will too. It's NOT fair to have a dysfunctional family, you HAVE been cheated, but nothing YOU can do about it other than protect your children.
Thanks Hissy, it's so hard for people without narcissistic mothers to understand. I really am going to have to give up on the idea of her being around my kids unattended, it's not safe for them, I know what she's like when no one is watching and when things like this happen I feel so guilty. The dentist said he'd have to have the tooth removed
And yes you get the ripped off thing completely. It's always felt particularly bad when I have a child - her behaviour seems to get worse as she gets jealous (she loves newborns, hospitals, all the drama) and she seems to go out of her way to provoke me. And I know there are mums out there who nurture their daughters when they have babies, let them sleep, clean their houses etc. It all seems worse when I'm tired...
Tangerine if you are the scapegoat and she is a narcissist why are you leaving your son with her? I'm being deliberately blunt. Do you think she'll be nicer to your DS because he is a child? Think back to your childhood, what was she like with you?
Narcissists are crap parents. Thankfully you had lovely grandparents who looked after you. Perhaps the feeling of being ripped off is not about your mother providing childcare now but that she has not provided the emotional support a mother should?
Definitely arrange alternate childcare as it means less drama for you and your DS to deal with.
I asked where he was hurt and he couldn't tell me, and neither could she, but I checked him over and couldn't find any injuries.
So, he'd just done it and you didn't notice the injury either.
Irrelevant the OP missed it. The bigger picture is what is important here and that is the fact the this grandmother doesn't sound a healthy influence to be around a small child.
I don't think anyone is owed a grandparent for their children, let alone childcare from a relative (free or otherwise).
You didn't notice til after she'd left??
All those who are pointing out that I didn't notice, I KNOW THAT! That is why I'm asking if it's odd that she didn't notice either - the difference being that she was right there when it happened and I wasn't.
divinity I know. it is a day he spends with his niece, he really loves her and always wants to go. he seems to love her, i hoped she would be a better gm than she was mother.... she wanted to have him and she's hard to say no to, i wanted a day off etc.....
The grandmother was there when he fell over, OP wasn't. You'd think grandmother would have seen him hit his face and so checked his mouth, no?
Op, it sounds as though you cannot rely on your mother to be an empathic and responsible carer. Which is awful, but your children probably shouldn't be alone with her.
If it'd been me in her place I'd have got him in to the house and then checked him if he'd fallen just outside the house unless there was something obvious. Chances are if that's the case she certainly wouldn't have been more likely to spot it than you were.
Not odd in the least that your narcissistic mother did not notice anything untoward. She only cares about her own self ultimately.
I would make alternative childcare arrangements as of now as this situation will not improve any. Your son can and should hopefully be able to see the niece some other way and without your mother's involvement. You know that its not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist.
You perhaps on some level think that although she was a truly shite parent to you (and she was) she will somehow be a better grandparent. No she won't be and you are not the only one by any means to have made such an error. They in particular make for being rubbish grandparents. Your error now will only be further compounded if you allow her to have any access now to you let alone your child whom she will also use as narcissistic supply.
The malignant narcissist is still a malignant narcissist even after you give birth. The fundamental nature of your malignantly narcissistic parent is the same as it was when you were a child (if not worse.).
Due to no reason other than the fact that you brought a child into the world, your narcissist parent is now a narcissist grandparent. Your bringing new life into the world did not fundamentally change your abusive parent into a loving family member. But adult children of narcissists (ACONs) seem to show a natural affinity for believing in this work of fiction. We have always wanted our parent to be loving to us, and now we want our parent to be a loving grandparent. What we want and what we end up with are two very different things. Where we usually get tripped up is our failure to recognize the adaptability of the narcissist to changing circumstances.
It is highly unlikely that your NPD parent will interact with your children in exactly the same way they did with you. At least, not in your presence. They have adapted their methods to the new situation of you having a family of your own. They know they don't have the same power and control they used to so they usually switch to sneakier methodologies. Which allows you to think that they have changed from what they were when you were growing up. The NPD grandparent will use their grandchildren in the same way they would use an inanimate tool. Without regard for the humanity of your child, that child becomes a tool in the hand of your NPD parent to hurt you. This will always result in moral and/or emotional harm being done to your child as well.
Many adult children of toxic parents feel torn between their parents’ (and society’s) expectation that grandparents will have access to their grandkids, and their own unfortunate firsthand knowledge that their parents are emotionally/physically/sexually abusive, or just plain too difficult to have any kind of healthy relationship with.
The children’s parents may allow the grandparents to begin a relationship with their children, hoping that things will be different this time, that their parents have really changed, and that their children will be emotionally and physically safer than they themselves were.
Unfortunately, this is rarely the case, because most abusive people have mental disorders of one kind or another, and many of these disorders are lifelong and not highly treatable. (Others are lifelong and treatable; however, many people never seek the necessary help.)
The well-intentioned parent ends up feeling mortified for having done more harm than good by hoping things would somehow be different — instead of having a child who simply never knew their grandparents and who was never mistreated, they have an abused child who is now also being torn apart by the grief involved in having to sever a lifelong relationship with the unhealthy people they are very attached to.
More Here: http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/toxic-bad-abusive-grandparents#ixzz2kLdQreh8
The fact that your lad didn't hold his mouth indicates nothing, my boy fell over face first in a shopping centre, put his tooth through his lip, blood everywhere, but he was too young to have that Hold Injury reflex, he was in too much shock I think.
The realisation that our children will suffer, be hurt, harmed and someone just doesn't give a shit - or in some cases actively brings that hurt/harm to our most very precious of beings is just so heinous as to render us in a kind of hideous vicious circle of disbelief.
My DM wouldn't let my DS change back out of (WAY too small) clothes she bought him for his last birthday. 3 times he asked to change. She told him that it would hurt her feelings if he did. When I saw him 3 hours later <shakes head again> he looked pained. I sold those bastard clothes on eBay for a loss, and was HAPPY to pay for them to be out of my house.
I KEEP having thoughts that maybe I was unreasonable about her, and that memory of his little (well hulking great 7 year old) face and the look of physical pain, hurt and confusion he had.
Every time I have to remind myself of that, it makes me die inside. It's getting easier, but the pain of having a freak of a mother is a long one to get over.
She really will go to any lengths to hurt me, and to hurt a little boy who is an absolute treasure. She hates my happiness so much, she will hurt him to hurt me. If I challenger her, she'll do that silly little voice, the batty old dear impersonation and deny it all. Even if I have proof.
I won't ever have anything more to do with her tbh, there has been far too much over the last few years, the last 12 months alone are enough for me to cut her off.
I often look at my life in utter horror that it's come to this. This is not the life I wanted, not in a million years, and it's not the life I deserve.
I'm working up the courage to change my phone numbers. I think New Year will be the changing point.
Oh Hissy that sounds awful. He would have been bothered far less by those clothes than you were, he wouldn't have had any idea of what was going on, or if he did, you were there for him and sorted him out very quickly.
Change your phone number! I have cut out my toxic sister and it's a huge relief. My mother is much harder but when she is gone it will be so liberating for me. The pain is unbearable at times, I know.
He has to have the tooth out under GA so until his new one comes in when he's seven (he's almost 3) he will have a gap in his beautiful smile, because I left him with her. I feel so, so guilty, I can't sleep, can't stop crying. He's already had enough to deal with with a new sibling and now this has happened. We also shaved his head as I couldn't deal with his nits - which he caught off my niece, at my mothers house. When I told her he had caught them she laughed.
Attila thank you for your words of wisdom. She is truly malignant. I see it more every day. She will never be alone with him again. I just have no idea what she will do next, anything to wreck my happiness. I've been talking about how my newborn is so lovely and sweet and now he's 'little mister perfect'. She did say, 'well, maybe he'll be a horrible toddler.'
Her jealousy is out of control at the moment as I have a newborn, I need to totally disengage.
You checked him and didn't see it. He'd only just done it, so she hadn't even had chance to look, probably. As you had chance to check him over it's more surprising that you missed it.
he will have a gap in his beautiful smile, because I left him with her
No, he will have a gap because he fell over. It could easily have happened in your care too. You are letting your awful relationship with your mother cloud your view.
<<he will have a gap in his beautiful smile, because I left him with her>>
Sorry, but that is ridiculous. There are lots of reasons in your OP and subsequent posts why you should not use your mum as childcare but the fact that your toddler fell down whilst in her care is not one of them.
You can't blame her for not noticing because there was very little time for her to notice in - it happened close to your front door.
Children fall over when they are running around. They get hurt. They have accidents - it is not necessary, or healthy, to allocate blame or self-flagellate when these things happen.
His hair will grow back. Was it long to begin with? there is a great Vosene spray that is good to use as a deterrent if you hear the little buggers are kicking about. My son has curly hair, so far so good, whenever the school emails, I spray him for a while.
Your mother is a prize narc. Can't believe she would laugh, It's not funny.
As is mine. I'm still struggling with this tbh, I still can't quite believe it.
I need to work up to the number change, it's a big step huh? Will discuss in Therapy next time. The nice lady at Orange said they'd do it for free.
Chipped teeth don't bleed, why would she have noticed any more than you did? Why do you leave him with your mother if it upsets you this much? Kids fall over, they sometimes chip their teeth. They often catch nits. None of this is her fault.
Is it funny for a small child to get nits so bad he has to be shaved?
Is it normal for a GM to not have the faintest idea of what happened, to not rush to the child, is it?
Using tone like this, and throwing out ridiculous as a word is just wrong. If you don't understand the situation, leave it for others that do.
It might look small fry to you, but it's not.
Yes OP maybe over dramatic in some places, but finding out your child's GM doesn't have much investment in the welfare of your child, and when you yourself have been treated shoddily is a horrific réalisation to have to face.
If you think the op is ridiculous, then that's ok, that's your opinion, but please pass on commenting as the op here needs help and support, not name calling, you'll soon find a thread where your input is constructive.
I think that unless you have a mother like this, you could never understand the feelings expressed. I can understand why the op's thoughts would seem ridiculous to some, but I share the op's experience of a NPD mother and I can totally understand where she is coming from.
There is no need to shave a child's head to deal with nits
I didn't say the OP was ridiculous, I said that her saying 'that her son had a gap in his teeth because she left him with her mother and blaming herself' was ridiculous. Because it is.
As I understand it, one of the effects of being brought up by a narcissist is feeling that it's always your fault. I think it's useful for people to challenge that view, especially, as in this case, when it patently isn't.
OK I have had some sleep now and am feeling a bit more rational but as others have said it's really hard to understand this if you have a normal mother. I do feel responsible, he was there all day and missed his nap which although he's older he really needs and gets clumsy without (she doesn't believe in naps for toddlers, so he doesn't get one at her house).
I know I'm being ott about it but it just really upsets me for some reason. I know he could be seriously ill and this is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but everything feels worse on so little sleep.
soupdragon I know you don't have to shave a child's head. It's just a very close number 2, not completely gone, but it looks pretty brutal. He refuses to have his hair combed properly with the nit comb so it was always a bit of a battle to get it combed before the tantrum escalated, and they just kept coming back, so we decided to cut it all off and start again - nits have gone.
barbarianmum I know on a rational level that what you are saying is perfectly correct and I will try and remind myself of that. I'm just not particularly rational right now!
Just keep saying it, until you believe it. This gets easier.
My mum is lovely (it's my dad whose the narc, and she always contained rather than enabled him) so I don't exactly know where you are coming from but I do know that whilst you cannot look to a narc for understanding, you can show yourself some mercy.
Why is your mother having your child? I don't think you mention it in your OP, apologies if I missed it. I just don't understand why you let him go there if you don't trust her and clearly there is a difference in parenting styles. Why not just keep him home with you? Or look for alternative childcare arrangements?
dri2 attilla explains really well the conflict between wanting to give your children granparents and knowing you can't give them good ones, but hoping this time it might be different. have a read.
I also think that you can't not let your kids see their grandparents because of a different parenting style. But it's where 'different parenting style' becomes 'a danger to your children' that I struggle with - where do i draw the line?
hard to explain but I have attempted to in subseqent posts here too.
thanks barbarianmum. Your poor mother, she sounds like she's in a difficult position..... good advice to show myself mercy.
Can I just add that I do not doubt that your mother is toxic and you have every reason to dislike her. I just don't think the two incidences regarding your child described here are out of the ordinary for normal family life. In these cases, your mother's narcissism is clouding the issue - or making issues where there are none.
I have often found injuries a while after the accident - my children certainly howled as if they had done major damage whether it was just scuffed hands, shock or a head injury requiring glue. She may have checked and not noticed, you checked and didn't notice [shrug]... it happens. None of this changes how you (rightly) feel about your mother due to her history and behaviour though.
I hope your DS bounces back
She doesn't believe in naps for toddlers?
Another example. The Nap's not hers to decide ffs, it's all about the child and if HE needs one or not.
There is pointing out that someone's thinking isn't accurate/rational/helpful and saying it's ridiculous.
Trying to pass that shit off as 'support' is ridiculous.
Oh hissy the stories I could tell. I'm really trying not to focus on her so much as it isn't helpful - she's got problems & won't change, but it's hard not to just sit in disbelief sometimes. She also thinks you shouldn't carry toddlers, make them walk.... why put yourself out?
Thanks soupdragon I know what you are saying, that is why I asked this, because I don't really know what to think and needed some outside opinions from people with normal mothers or just people who don't know mine.
What I do know is that if she did notice the injury there is a good chance she would pretend not to and hope that enough time passed and I wouldn't be able to say for sure it happened when she was looking after him. She's sneaky like that and hates being 'caught', owning up to a mistake is impossible for her.
DS has completely bounced back
I think what you need to focus on is her reaction when you rang her, did that not seem odd?
On Mumsnet there are plenty of seemingly normal DMs and MILs that don't support their children/dil/sil in their parenting.
The mantra 'my child, my rules' is relevant here.
If your child's routine is not respected, if their welfare comes in second place consistently to the GP, if there is no desire to want to do the best for the child, then that person can't be left with your child as a matter of course.
If a child is tired, it needs to rest or sleep. If he can't walk anymore then he needs a bit of help; either carrying or in a buggy. It's not rocket science, it's basic care and consideration for a fellow (and vulnerable) human being.
Put your child's needs above your need to appease your mother. Make alternative arrangements for childcare.
You know what you dealt with here, but there wasn't anyone to protect you from it.
Now it's your son, and he has you. Make it count.
I just want to apologise for my comments two weeks ago. I misread your post after reading another thread and was clearly in the wrong.
teeth bleed a lot when knocked dont they, not sure how you would not notice
Teeth don't bleed, no. Surrounding soft tissue, if damaged, does though. If the actual tooth was broken, it means that the hard part took the fall & that the soft tissue wasn't damaged. Therefore, no blood.
toffeesponge = Irrelevant the OP missed it
It isn't irrelevant. Her mother having missed it is the whole premise of the thread, so yes, it is VERY irrelevant that op missed it.
Being cruel to be kind, op I really think you need to start thinking about what to do about her & get over the ripped off feeling before it consumes you.
Yes she was a shit mother, still is. You obviously don't trust her or your instincts about her (having to check if she should have noticed, worrying about the pool) & she makes you feel bad a lot (all) of the time.
BUT, you are now in charge of your feelings & life. You can go on feeling let down, but accepting the status quo, or you can be pro-active & DO something.
For the sake of your children decide.
*And I know there are mums out there who nurture their daughters when they have babies, let them sleep, clean their houses etc *Yes, there are, but you don't have one. You need to let it go, only by letting it go will you start to feel better.
And before everyone jumps on me, I grew up with a narc mother who didn't even want me, I won't go into my story but needless to say the day I stopped seeing her (over 20yrs ago) and stopped being her victim, but physically & in my head (the head thing was much later, not until about 5yrs ago actually) that i stopped feeling like I was robbed of a mother. I was giving her power over me, even though she had no idea. I stopped being the 10yr old who wanted her approval & just got on with my life.
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