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Please tell me honestly, is it me being out of order here?

(156 Posts)
BikerMiceFromMars Wed 06-Nov-13 23:47:52

NC for this post.

Dh and I have been together 10 years, married 5. We have two dc - one 2years old one 10 weeks.

For as long as we've lived together, he has always gone out drinking with friends after work. Up until 18 months ago it was 3-4 times a week, but since life has got considerably harder for me (went back to work full time pregnant, looking after toddler and newborn, do all the housework, 90% of parenting, handle all finances, and will be returning back to work again FT very soon), I have asked him to cut back going out to once a week.

Money is very tight at the moment as it is and even if it wasn't a money issue life's very tough for me atm I've got pnd a trying to struggle through each day, so really look forward to his home time to get a bit of help at bedtime. If he's not out drinking he comes home around 8pm and out from 7am, so out the house for long hours.

When he's put drinking hell drink until 1-2am and roll home steaming drunk maybe 3-4am.

The biggest problem I have is that he'll text or call that he's on his way home and bringing dinner with him, then I'll wait, wait and wait and by 9/10pm I realise he's out drinking and order a takeaway and he'll come home in the early hours and there's always an excuse as to why he had to go out.

He'll never call to say he's staying out as he knows I'll get angry and always switches his phone off so he's not contactable. This really upsets me as I feel with two small children we should always be contactable to each other - either keep your phone on or let me know the bar you're in at he very least. What if I had an accident, or one of the dc had to go hospital. We have no car and not family nearby so I think it's important we should be able to rely on each other.

We had row after row about this behaviour, he always apologises but does it yet again.

I never ever EVER get time to myself, I don't get to haveax pram fom night out, or even go to the gym as he's never home early enough for me to go out int he evening to the gym for an hour or so, and one the weekend he's usually too hungover to look after dc.

This has gone on for so many years now, I'm beginning to think am I being the one that's out of order? Is it totally normal a nd accept ale for him to go out drinking to the point of falling in the street whenever he fancies it, and not tell me and leave me waiting for him.

I could understand if it was every once in a while say once every other week, but it's whenever he feels like it. Literally. He acts like a single man instead of a father of a toddler and baby.

I really am doubting myself now as to whether I'm being unreasonably by asking him to be home every night at least for the next month or so while I'm struggling so much and then maybe go out once every other week until life gets easier for me. I understand if he's late back because of work, but it's just hurtful when he says he's on his waxy home then turns his phone off and stays out til 3am.

Just so I don't leave anything out, he's had a weeks holiday away with friends 3 weeks ago, which was nonstop drinking so it's not like he's not gone out in years.

Me n the other hand, I can't remember even going the toilet alone without my toddler following me or baby screaming.

CalamityKate Wed 06-Nov-13 23:49:45

No. It's not you being OOO. It's him.

BikerMiceFromMars Wed 06-Nov-13 23:50:28

Sorry for all the typos.

Clobbered Wed 06-Nov-13 23:52:20

How can you possibly believe that is you who is out of order here? Your other half is behaving in a very selfish way, pissing away family money and leaving you to bring up his kids. What exactly is he bringing to the relationship? Sorry but he sounds like an inconsiderate arsehole. YABU for tolerating his nonsense.
cake

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 06-Nov-13 23:52:46

He's a twat.

He has a toddler and small baby and a wife with PND.

This is the time that a proper man steps up and looks after his family.

Why on earth did he take a week's holiday away with friends at a time like this?

That is not remotely normal.

Why did you accept that?

He's a shit husband and a crappy father.

showtunesgirl Wed 06-Nov-13 23:53:54

I'm confused. Exactly what do you get out of this relationship? confused

Shellywelly1973 Wed 06-Nov-13 23:55:10

Bloody hell!

Im wondering why your even with him! He sounds such a selfish piss head!

Seriously this is a ridiculous & unsustainable existence.Why are you still with him? What are you getting out of this 'relationship'?

footflapper Wed 06-Nov-13 23:55:30

He's taking the piss sad

BikerMiceFromMars Wed 06-Nov-13 23:59:37

It's been going on for so long and all his friends in the industry we both work in, are exactly the same, that it's got the point where I can argue anymore. I literally don't know if I am the one being unreasonable anymore. He makes me feel like it's his right to go out when he chooses. Because he goes out with workmates he says he has to go out to "network" but I do the same f_ing job as him.

We've rowed so badly about this same argument time and time again a nd he always promises he wont. Do it, he'll be contactable etc, but after say 3-4 days he slips back to old behaviour.

I can honestly say he has never gone one full work week without being home every night to help with bedtime. The most he's managed is 3 days.

I don't know what else to do. It breaks my heart to be treated this way, but we love each other, he loves the children and I don't want to break us up. But I can't continue this way. This is the toughest my life has ever been and if he can't be here for a month when I need him the most when will he be.

wontletmesignin Thu 07-Nov-13 00:01:06

if you were doing something similar, and he expressed to you on a number of occasions how much your actions were bothering him. would you continue doing it?

wontletmesignin Thu 07-Nov-13 00:03:13

he has no respect for you what so ever.
you would be far better off without him. he is bringing nothing to your relationship right now, apart from negatives.
without him, the negatives would go and you could build on the positives without a selfish git dragging you down.

you will then be able to create a better life for your kids and yourself

wontletmesignin Thu 07-Nov-13 00:04:48

you are worth so much more than that! you deserve so much better than that!

BasilBabyEater Thu 07-Nov-13 00:07:52

Er, why are you still living with this parasitical drunk?

He doesn't love you, he's using you as a convenience.

He is a shit husband and a shit father.

What on earth are you doing with him?

What will happen if you decide tht you need to get pissed 3 nights a week "networking" when you go back to work?

This bloke is taking the piss and it's astonishing that you can't see that.

Ring Al Anon. Describe his drinking to them. See what they've got to say about him. He's prioritising his drinking over you and his children. That's a fucking major problem.

It's not you, it's him. You're being treated like shit here. You deserve better.

MoominMammasHandbag Thu 07-Nov-13 00:09:16

He is treating you appallingly. It really doesn't sound like any definition of love I've ever heard.

fivefoottwowitheyesofblue Thu 07-Nov-13 00:10:47

My guess is he is in the Police.

Do not put up with this.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 00:13:41

Thank you its good to know its not me over reacting or beibg a nag as he says.

I will call al anon and see what they say. He refuses tp admit he has a drink problem but he drunks every single day even if its just 2 beers its still everyday.

My other worry is whether he could be hsving sn affair. He said he would never do that but hes hardly home and when out switches his phone off.

do you think it could be an affair?

wontletmesignin Thu 07-Nov-13 00:17:31

dont concern yourself over an affair - seriously. he isn't worth your time or worry over that matter.
he is a selfish twat, and you need to get you and your kids away from him asap.
it will be difficult, but it will be worth it in the end.

Shellywelly1973 Thu 07-Nov-13 00:17:49

I think its your dh lack of care for you that I find the hardest to understand. Has been like this before when you've really needed him?

If the drinking & networking are part of the job-will you be doing the same when you return to work?

You know the old saying of whats good for the goose& all that!

Honestly? He doesn't love you. Or at any rate, not more than he loves going out on the piss. Nor does he love the kids. If you love someone, you want to see them - not go half the week without setting eyes on them cos they were already in bed. If you love someone and they're struggling, you are there for them and do your best to help. You don't leave them stressed, hungry and upset while you fuck off drinking, and then make them feel bad about even trying to contact you.

Put that together with the fact you have been/soon will be working FT again, and are doing everything else as well - and why exactly are you with him? You are literally not getting anything from this relationship. You are nothing to him except the facilitator of his lifestyle. (Yeah, he probably would be sad to lose you - but for that reason only).

Sorry, I know that sounds really harsh - but to quote Maya Angelou, "If someone shows you what they're like - believe them" sad

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 07-Nov-13 00:18:57

Yes, it could be an affair if he's barely ever at home and uncontactable when he's out.

Whether it's an affair or not, he's a total prick and he treats you like shit.

OvaryAction Thu 07-Nov-13 00:20:18

In what ways does he enhance your life?

You sound like you'd be a lot better off in the long run without him.

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 07-Nov-13 00:20:53

And he's too hungover at the weekends to EVER look after his own children?

You are effectively imprisoned by his drinking.

It's a ridiculous situation.

And your children will not thank you if you make them grow up in a home with a father like this in it.

nocarsgo Thu 07-Nov-13 00:22:49

You do not have a problem.

He has an alcohol problem, and is a selfish, irresponsible arse with no love or respect for you.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

Viviennemary Thu 07-Nov-13 00:24:35

He does sound a complete waste of time whichever way you look at it. What is the point of having a partner like this. He doesn't seem to be contributing anything at all to the family. Phone switched off and not contactable. I don't think many people could put up with this without being driven mad. He needs to be told shape up or go.

Vakant Thu 07-Nov-13 00:24:50

YANBU. To be honest, if my husband was like this, I would divorce him.

Straitjacket England Thu 07-Nov-13 01:06:40

Ask yourself whether you would treat others in this way. If not, why not? Why does it therefore make it ok for him to treat you this way?

It doesn't. Far from it.

This man is abusive. He may not hit you but he is treating you as an inferior and harming both you and DC with his behaviour. If you are the main earner, do you own the house/have your name on the tenancy? You really need to throw him out. It would help to get some advice from Women's AId or the CAB on how to do this, and I'm afraid you might end up having to get court orders or involve the police, because a man as selfish as this may either refuse to go or become violent.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 07-Nov-13 01:37:02

he went on holiday with his mates leaving his post natal wife with a toddler and a 7 week old baby? shock

just incase you haven't heard it enough YANBU!

I cannot believe how you have accepted this for so long. completely unacceptable behaviour in my book.

I don't have any advice because the only advice I would give you you wouldn't like so I wont say it. but please get some confidence and stand up for yourself.

Please dump this absolute fucker of a man.

bragmatic Thu 07-Nov-13 02:18:08

It's been unreasonable since before you had children. Children has made it much harder to bear. But make no mistake, no reasonable partner would go out hard drinking 3-4 nights a week, every week, even without children.

Who does he drink with? Have his workmates not grown up either? Or when they pair up, and get married and have kids etc does he find new pissheads to drink with?

bragmatic Thu 07-Nov-13 02:18:58

What are you going to do?

SwishYouToASwazzle Thu 07-Nov-13 02:35:26

I'm sorry, it really does sound like he has a drinking problem, but he has to take responsibility for himself and want to get help. Alcoholism is an addiction and there is no reasoning with an addiction. If he sincerely believes he doesn't have a problem, you should consider temporarily moving out or asking him to leave as you are in a very vulnerable place right now. Do you have family or friends that can offer you support? Have you been to your GP and health visitor and

SwishYouToASwazzle Thu 07-Nov-13 02:37:07

... have you been to your GP and health visitor? Especially your health visitor, it's her job to make sure you are managing at home.

louloutheshamed Thu 07-Nov-13 02:51:05

He went on holiday for a week when you have a toddler and 7 week old baby shock?

And you think you are expecting too much???

I have no words.

DottyboutDots Thu 07-Nov-13 03:34:36

So what if it's an affair? How does that make it worse? He is treating you and your children appallingly.

SqueakyCleanLibertine Thu 07-Nov-13 03:46:43

Bloody hell, he's done a real job on you hasn't he? The behaviour you describe screams 'self centred thoughtless man child' yet you are questioning wether you even have the right to be unhappy about it?!

First things first, are you getting help with the pnd? The sooner you feel stronger the sooner you can work on your 'relationship'

If it were me, id tell him to fuck the fuck off until he sorts his priorities out, what would you lose? Your doing it all on your own anyway.

Here's some flowers for you love, have you got any friends you can talk to in rl?

Vivacia Thu 07-Nov-13 06:08:46

It sounds as though you've given opportunity after opportunity to listen to your concerns and act on them. He hasn't. I wouldn't give him another chance, but suspect you would. In which case, tell him what you need him to do and you're going to see how you feel in a month's time. Gives him a month to prove himself. Home to share bath and bed time every night. Fair share of the chores. No one-offs that take him aware from home and to do all of this with a good grace.

I suspect he won't want to do this and you'll find it easier without him - more financial support and fewer disappointments.

happystory Thu 07-Nov-13 06:48:29

This is so sad. You should be enjoying your lovely new baby not putting up with this crap. How the hell can he afford it apart from anything else ? My guess is he's a City boy and its all on expenses, but anyway regardless NOTHING excuses this. And he doesn't do family life at the weekends either? Someone needs to give this idiot a reality check. Would he listen to his father, or a brother if he has one, or a friend? I really think this needs to be outed with someone apart from you and him......

You are married to a drunkard, this is what life is like with such people. Chaos and dysfunction all round and you are also affected by his drinking. He is putting alcohol before everything and everyone else, his main thought is where the next drink is coming from. Also such people are often in denial and blame others for their inherent problems.

Others have asked you what you get out of this relationship and I can only assume its nothing because you cannot think of anything at all positive to say about him. You do not want to split the family up but its already split apart anyway by his actions. Is this really what you want your children to see as they are growing up; an unhappy mother worried all the time along with a drunk for a dad?.

You're his crutch; all that you are to him now is his enabler. You also carry him.

Alcohol is a cruel mistress and he is truly in deep. His primary relationship is with drink, you and your children do not matter to him. He loves alcohol more than he loves both you and the children.

Re this comment:-
"It's been going on for so long and all his friends in the industry we both work in, are exactly the same"

Well actually no they are not. You are not like this (i.e a drunkard) and I bet if you were to look closely at his friends they are likely to be both few in number and heavy drinkers also.

Your only option going forward is to leave him. You however have a choice re this man, your children do not. Is this really the sort of father they should have in their lives, you're doing all the donkey work now anyway.

DressingGown Thu 07-Nov-13 07:10:24

Oh this sounds so much like me. No advice - but here's what I did.

I was with my dd's father for almost 12 years, waiting at home, whilst he sat in the pub with the phone off. He also constantly said 'I'll be home soon' and wouldn't come home for hours (sometimes days - most notably when dd was less than 2 weeks old).

I have no idea why I accepted his behaviour for so long, but once I saw that dd (she's only 4.5 months) would grow up watching him staggering in pissed in the middle of the night, I had to act. I asked him to leave 3 weeks ago. I'm starting counselling later on today. I have plenty of wobbles still. And it's desperately sad. But he had so many warnings. And I had to do something for dd's sake. It's only since he's been gone that I've seen things more clearly, and not just about dd - i.e. he clearly had no respect for me to treat me so badly for so long.

I am trying not to make any hard and fast decisions and just living day to day at the moment. Perhaps he will sort himself and some sort of reconciliation will be possible in future. A friend said this to me and it helped: I know it's hard and nothing I say will make it better, but in a year's time, you'll either be back together with a much clearer shared understanding of what acceptable behaviour looks like, or you'll be happily living a single life.

And finally, and importantly, he's a much better father now. He comes round a couple of week nights to see dd and give her her bath. And he takes her for a few hours at the weekend so I can get other things done. Life is actually much much easier for me now. I wish he could have been like this when we were together - but it was too easy for him just to leave it all up to me.

Good luck, OP. x

hoboken Thu 07-Nov-13 07:16:10

Make financial and housing plans (if possible), print this thread and when he has read it say you want a divorce

iloveweetos Thu 07-Nov-13 07:26:19

I agree with vakant.
This is not normal behaviour for a father.
You sound so sad in your post sad get out of the relationship and make yourself happy.

TiredDog Thu 07-Nov-13 07:34:33

It's really sad to read posts where the poster has become so desensitised to normal behaviour and brain washed they cannot see how wrong this is and how unhappy the doting loving father is making them. It is neither doting nor loving and these are not the actions of a man who cares.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 07-Nov-13 07:36:47

Dressing gown talks sense....

flowers for you dressing gown- you're a brave woman and a good mum

Op....you need to take the same action as dressing gown. Listen to others that have been there.

My ex was similar- only out once a week til 3-4 but pissed out if his head and no good the next day. No consideration and wouldn't tell me before that he was staying out, phone off etc etc. I couldn't let my kids grow up where mummy was crying because dad was being a selfish twat- every week.

Life is easier without them. I bet your pnd would lift a bit too- he is most certainly adding to it.

X

DressingGown Thu 07-Nov-13 08:03:11

Oh thanks, mamma. That's given me a lovely wee self-esteem boost before my first counselling session (which I'm totally crapping myself about - lol). Right back at you! thanks

bikermice thinking of you. You deserve so much more from life than this. I'll keep watching. And if I get any amazing insights or pearls of wisdom from counselling, I'll pass them on. x

Ledkr Spain Thu 07-Nov-13 08:22:35

Yes, well done dressing gown and good luck for counselling.

RevelsRoulette Thu 07-Nov-13 08:24:30

My husband was like this. He would do exactly what you describe - even down to the turning off of the mobile. Only he would stay out all night, and eventually come back saying he'd got so drunk that he'd slept in the car.

I tried everything. I cried, I shouted, I begged, I pleaded, I involved family members, I threatened to leave, I did everything apart from the one thing I wish I had done - leave.

But I didn't have the courage. I preferred to stay with how things were than the other option I had, which was to be a single parent to 2 toddlers (there's 15 months between my kids)

So I did the only other thing I could do. I stopped caring. I no longer gave a shit where he was or what he was doing. I stopped phoning, I stopped yelling. I just got on with things without him.

The weird thing was that the less I gave a crap where he was, the more I plainly didn't give a shit about him, the less he went out hmm although he still cannot stop drinking when he starts and I am convinced that he is a functional alcoholic.

I don't feel I am qualified to advise you, since I made a poor choice which I freely admit was out of fear of the unknown, but I wanted you to know that you aren't alone. There are people, including me, who do understand what it's like to live like this.

I can tell you that I spent many years wishing that I had the courage to leave and that they were unhappy years. I also wonder what my life would be like now if I had made that choice back then.

I would also describe my husband as you describe yours - as a good man who does love me. And he's got a number of really great qualities.

Sadly, if someone loves alcohol more, they're going to behave like this, because you don't matter as much as beer. And that's quite depressing.

mcmoonfucker Thu 07-Nov-13 08:29:56

All the energy you waste wondering where he is, building up resentment, getting angry and questioning yourself could be put to much better use.
We only have a finite amount of energy and yours is being wasted on misery.
You know he's a waste of space. He isn't a good dad. Hes a horrific husband.
Life is too short. You are too good for all this. Your kids deserve better role models.
Decision time.

pumpkinkitty Thu 07-Nov-13 08:31:44

Oh my word! My DH got a mouthful when he came home drunk and was too hung over to help out the next day once! And I've only got one DC!

My attitude is go out and have fun but I will have exactly the same amount if time to myself doing whatever I want.

He is being awful. I'd be tempted to tell him that as he is home such a little amount of time you'll be using the equivalent amount of money he spends going out on some home help, a cleaner or a nanny etc.

LittleBairn Thu 07-Nov-13 08:33:46

YANBU this man clearly has a problem with Alchol until he admits it and gets help its only going to get worse.
I've never said LTB before but in this case a trial separation might be best to help him realise what he's risking by having this lifestyle.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 08:35:34

His excuse this time is he MAY be getting made redundant (there's rumours) and he had to staybout all night drinking as he doesn't want to be. I said all the more reason to come hone not waste our money and work on your cv! Furious but also feel deflated. Its always the same he apologies says ge won't do it again and inevitably always does.

LittleBairn Thu 07-Nov-13 08:37:23

blush just realised its nit a YNBU thread.
Anyway what I said still stands.
My mum was you for the first half of her relationship with my father we as the kids witnessed it too I s a very anxious kid because of it. Once she gained the strength (after 15 years) she kicked him out cut off all co tact and me and my sister refused to have anything to do with him he finally hit rock bottom and got his act together.
My parents could have saved us all years of misery if they had done it sooner.

LittleBairn Thu 07-Nov-13 08:40:13

biker he does it again because there are no consequences for his actions.

Even worse if its likely he will loose his job soon he needs to be more careful with his money. This just illustrates how little he really cares for his family that he refuses to secure their future instead he gets pissed.
Tough shit I don't care how much pressure a person is under its never a good enough excuse to be an alcoholic destroying his family.

RevelsRoulette Thu 07-Nov-13 08:42:17

There will always be an excuse. Always. A different one each time and each one very well argued out. But it's all meaningless.

I recognise the use of "had to" as well.

I am you, a decade on.

It's not a nice life.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 08:42:54

We do love each other and he loves the children that I don't doubt...but he has no consideration for me at all. I very much feel he has a srink problem but he says if I have the problem with him drinking then i need to arrange counselling for him etc as he doesn't think he has one. I'm too busy rasing the children and dealing with household finances and tenants etc. I feel luke I have a full time job plus I do have a full time job I'll be going back to very soon.

re money I use nt salart for galf the mortgage and all household bills childcare shopping etc. He uses hus for the other half of the mortgage and food. The rest goes on himself. He has credit cards and an expense account so takes full uae of that.

NeedlesCuties Thu 07-Nov-13 08:43:51

How does he get so bladdered 4 nights a week and still be functioning for work the next day???

I'd be livid, OP, you are being taken for a mug.

Your lovely little babies are being ignored by their own DF at such a beautiful time in their lives. They and you deserve better.

You've had great advice here. He's an arsehole.

I am a barmaid. I would estimate that the average bloke spends a minimum of £30 to get steaming drunk over several hours. That's just steadily drinking pints. If he's buying other people drinks or shots it could easily be 40-50 quid, 3 times a week.

Do you have 120-150 a week spare for his booze?

That money should be spent on you and your family, not for him to piss up the wall.

Would the cost of his drinking shock him? I know most people don't realise just how much they are spending.

Those figures are based on a pub, if he's in bars/clubs then double that amount.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 09:06:41

needles he's used to it and also in our industry its really common place to be out drinking "socialising" after work and be hungover the next day. For alot of ppl work is their entire life but it doesn't have to be. I managed to separate work from my personal life. The difference is he likes being out and I see it as a necessity if I have to. I always rushee home as soon as I could to see dd and will do the same. I caught up on work at night or weekend during nap times to spend as much time as possible with my family.

Thank you all for listening.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 09:08:50

southern he has an expense account so I'd say half his drinking budget is expensed. The other half is our money.

Poor you, it is not fair.

He is selfish, entitled and does not care about you or the kids.

He is putting himself first.

Was he always like this? I do despair for women who have kids with men like this, TBH. What a life. It's not normal, it's awful.

VoiceofRaisin Thu 07-Nov-13 09:12:09

Love is something that is demonstrated by actions, not words. Of course YANBU. Your DH is behaving in a very very selfish and unfair manner. I am so sorry for you. You absolutely need to call him on this. The redundancy thing is a red herring as going drinking every night is not a good way to commend yourself to your employer.

What sort of father did your DH have? Would his mother have accepted this from his father? If not, then point that out to him. Ask him to name other people known to you both (? neighbours and friends) who treat their families the way he does his and ask him why he thinks he behaves so differently and whether that is reasonable?

If your DH doesn't change then your marriage won't last. Absolutely he has to commit to being in 6 nights a week, and on one of those nights to have sole charge so it is your turn to have a life. Perhaps he can turn this around.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Thu 07-Nov-13 09:17:00

I'm sorry to hear this OP.
You are not being unreasonable. He is. He thinks it his right to go out whenever he wants without a thought for you and his children. If my OH behaved like this I would leave him. You are with a selfish asshole who doesn't love or care for you and behaves exactly the way he wants regardless of your feelings. He could be having an affair, but would it make a difference? Just the disregard for you in his drinking and leaving you to do anything is bad enough. I'm angry and sad for you. LTB.

CocktailQueen Thu 07-Nov-13 09:20:46

OP, YOU are not OOO here. Your H is. He sounds completely selfish. what a waste of time. Does he really work from 7am to 8pm? Not telling you where he's going and switching his phone off would be a deal breaker to me tbh - does he care about you or his dc at all? It doesn't sound like it. I'd ask hm to leave. You would be no worse off at all without him - maybe much better off, as you wouldn't be worrying about him all the time. Do you have family or friends locally?

DeMaz Thu 07-Nov-13 09:21:44

Wow, OP! I would NEVER put up with any of this!!!! You say you love each other but theres absolutely NO RESPECT from him. No decent human being would do this to his wife and children!!
My hubby is a City Finance boy working long hours sometimes, earning a good salary. Sometimes, he will go down to the pub for a drink but most of the time he just wants to get out of work and rush home to see his DD and me!

I would never put up with the way he's treating you!!!

BikermicefromMars,

Re your recent comments:-

"We do love each other and he loves the children that I don't doubt...but he has no consideration for me at all".

This above sentence contradicts itself; how can he love you if he has no consideration for me at all. He has NO consideration for anything other than drink, his main thought is where the next drink is going to come from.

"I very much feel he has a srink problem but he says if I have the problem with him drinking then i need to arrange counselling for him etc as he doesn't think he has one"

Denial is commonly seen in alcoholics and he is also likely badly underestimating how much he is drinking. And NO, you do not have to arrange counselling for him, that is not your job here. You've enabled him for too long now as it is.

You are also playing a role here; you alternate between provoker and enabler. Both are highly damaging to you and your children will pick up on all this as well. You cannot fully protect them from him and his associated alcoholism.

How many people know he has a drink problem?. Not many I daresay, also alcoholism thrives on secrecy.

What do you get out of this relationship now, what needs of yours (co-dependency perhaps) are being met here?.

Where is your own line in the sand; what would it take for you to actually leave him?. Does he drive drunk.

His occupation is not an excuse; regardless of occupation this man would still drink to excess because he is at heart an alcoholic. He would also find any excuse or occasion to do so as well. You look at his buddies, I bet you without exception they are all his drinking buddies, people who constantly prop up the bar and perhaps some of them are alcoholics too.

He has a job, well currently he does and he may well hold it down to some extent. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that he will lose this job at some point due to his alcoholism. Does he drive whilst drunk or hungover?. Would you trust him at all to look after the children without you being there?.

KateF Thu 07-Nov-13 09:24:56

OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. Like other posters I was married to a man like this for 12 years. I should have left after 2 but had two little children and was too scared. I had another child before I finally called it a day two years ago. I accepted excuse after excuse but eventually his selfish and frankly abusive behaviour killed any love I had left for him. I am now doing the Freedom Programme and realising just how badly damaged I am from those years of tolerating being treated so badly.

Please don't let it happen to you. Talk to someone now, Parenting Support have helped me so much recently and I believe Women's Aid are also very good.

BikermicefromMars,

You may find the following difficult to read but I would urge you to read it all the same:-

The following describes an incident that could be an example of alcoholic behaviour, and some examples of reactions to the incident. Does any of these sound familiar?

The alcoholic comes home late and he is drunk, too drunk in fact to get the key into the front door lock. After several futile attempts, he decides that it is a lost cause. Since he does not want anyone in the house to know that he is too drunk to unlock his own door, he makes a brilliant decision that solves his problem. He goes to sleep in the front garden!

How would you react?

The Rescuer
The "rescuer" doesn't let the incident become a "problem." Since she has been waiting up for him anyway, she goes out in the yard, gets the alcoholic up, cleans him up, and puts him into bed. That way the neighbors never see him passed out in the flower bed!
She never mentions the incident to him or anybody else. If anyone else mentions it, she denies there is a problem. She lies for him, covers up for his mistakes, and protects him from the world.

As the problems increase and his drinking gets worse, she takes on responsibilities that were once his. She may get a job or work extra hours to pay the bills. And if he gets in trouble with the law, she will move heaven and earth to come up with his bail.

The Provoker
The "provoker" reacts by punishing the drunk for his actions. She either waits for him to wake up the next morning and gives it to him with both barrels, or she goes out and turns the water sprinklers on!
She scolds, ridicules, and belittles. She nags. She screams insults at him loud enough for everyone to hear. She gets on the telephone and tells all her friends he's a loser. She is angry and she makes sure that the alcoholic and everybody else knows it. Or she gives him the cold shoulder and doesn't speak to him. She threatens to leave.

She doesn't let it go, either. The anger and resentment continue to build as these incidents become more frequent. She never lets him forget his transgressions. She holds it against him and uses it as a weapon in future arguments -- even months or years later.

The Martyr
The "martyr" is ashamed of the alcoholic's behavior and she lets him know it by her actions or words. She cries and tells him, "You've embarrassed us again in front of the whole neighborhood!"
She sulks, pouts, and isolates. She gets on the telephone with her friends and tearfully describes the misery that he has caused her this time! Or she is so ashamed of it she avoids her friends and any mention of the incident.

Slowly she becomes more withdrawn and depressed. She may not say much about it to the alcoholic, but she lets him know with her actions that she is ashamed of him. Quietly she tries to make him feel guilty for his behaviour.

Doubtless you have been a mix of all of the above over the years.

Which is the Enabler?
The above examples may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but then again they may be very typical of what goes on in an alcoholic home. The "roles" the nonalcoholic spouse plays in the family may not be as well defined, as they are outlined here. Depending upon the circumstances, the spouse may fall into one of these roles, or may switch back and forth between them all.

So which of the spouses described above is an enabler? Which one is actually helping the alcoholic progress in his disease? Which one, although they are trying to make things better, are actually contributing to the problem?

All of them.

What is the longest period of time as well to your knowledge that he has stayed off alcohol?.

Katnisscupcake Thu 07-Nov-13 10:15:29

Oh OP this is a really awful situation and YADNBU.

If you look at your life, how much does he actually give you in support? A lot of people worry about how they will cope on their own if they take the massive step to leave their partner for whatever reason.

But actually you are already running the household on your own. Should you make the decision to leave him, you will be no worse off than you are now, you will be 100 times better off because you won't have this stress. Your DCs will know that you love and support them 100% (not that they don't know this now, but a lot of your headspace will be taken up with worrying about him and where he is).

mcmoonfucker Thu 07-Nov-13 10:20:42

He's not even paying his way OP.
He's actually costing you money by not even paying towards the bills.

Honestly, you are getting conned in every way possible.

Please don't tell me he EXPECTS sex.

PolyesterBride Thu 07-Nov-13 11:02:54

He sounds awful. What he is doing is in no way reasonable or normal. I think what I would do is sit down and tell him calmly what you need to change and when you need it to he changed by. And if he can't do it, I think you should end this relationship. If you separate, he will at least look after the kids sometimes on contact days, won't he (assuming you can trust him to be sober)? You will get more help without him and you will not have to put up with someone treating you like shit. Good luck OP.

PottedPlant Thu 07-Nov-13 11:03:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Twinklestein France Thu 07-Nov-13 11:11:18

This is appalling OP. You seem to believe that you are essentially a slave.

That he's an alcoholic is only the half of it, he's horrifically selfish, lazy, entitled and exploitative.

Love = consideration. That he doesn't consider or respect you shows he does not love you.

What's in this for you?

I'm sorry you're living this way. There seems little point in confirming that he is in the wrong, or pointing out just how appalling his behaviour is. I'm not sure how you can reconcile 'he loves me' with the way he treats you sad
Because that's not love. And his children? I'm sure he loves them in some measure, but certainly not as a father should. He has never acted as a father, in so much as he absents himself by choice, never cares for them, never takes any responsibility for them and doesn't attempt to shape, teach and model the behaviour we all want our children to demonstrate. He is nothing but a negative influence in their lives, what memories will they have of their daddy as children? What will they say their family life was like? Will they respect him? Will they respect you? Will they consider his behaviour as normal and emulate it? Will they be embarrassed of Daddy? Will they know what a loving adult relationship is like having only seen this dysfunctional one? If you have a daughter will she accept shitty behaviour from her partner in the name of love and well it's not that bad? Will your son treat his partner as his Dad treats you? What good does he bring you? What good does he bring your DC?

Scarletskies Thu 07-Nov-13 11:19:33

I'm sorry you're going through all of that with everything else you have on.

My father was like this when we were small, it was misery for my mum and at times for us.

All I can say you will not change him. Don't waste your life on someone that doesn't give you the respect you truly deserve.

mummytime Belgium Thu 07-Nov-13 11:34:17

"We do love each other and he loves the children that I don't doubt...but he has no consideration for me at all."

Sorry but it doesn't look like he loves you (and probably not the children either).
Love is actions as well as words. It is thinking about the other person. Putting their needs first.

stowsettler Thu 07-Nov-13 11:43:16

There is only one thing you can do, OP: disengage.

You can do it the hard way, like Revels - because, despite her fear of the unknown she is the first to admit that it was actually the hard way.

Or you can kick him out.

He hasn't listened up to now - what makes you think that a load of people on the internet can give you the magic formula to make him start listening now?

They can't. It's a clear choice:

put up with this shit life

or

kick him out.

firesidechat Thu 07-Nov-13 11:43:21

I don't know what else to do. It breaks my heart to be treated this way, but we love each other, he loves the children and I don't want to break us up. But I can't continue this way. This is the toughest my life has ever been and if he can't be here for a month when I need him the most when will he be.

I just don't understand how love can survive the kind of behaviour that you have described on here. Any love that I felt for such a man would have been eroded long ago.

He does have an alcohol problem.

He has no respect for you.

He doesn't care about you or for you. (To be honest this would be the worst one for me. Words are cheap, actions say everything)

He is a flawed father and your children will become more aware of the issues as they get older.

You've told him and argued about this before. I'm not sure what else you can do to make him see sense.

I don't usually post on these threads because I get over invested and very often the OP does nothing. Indeed why should they listen to a bunch of strangers on the net. Just wanted you to know that the problem lies with your husband and not with you. What you do with that is entirely up to you.

Sidge Thu 07-Nov-13 11:46:05

He doesn't love you.

If you love someone you care for them, you are considerate of them, you respect and value them. You parent together and are a unit, a couple.

He loves booze. He will always find an excuse to drink, and by staying you facilitate that. He prioritises alcohol and his own needs above yours and your children's. That isn't love.

You are better off alone than with this man. Honestly. It's hard and scary and tiring and lonely but you're alone already.

MILLYMOLLYMANDYMAX Thu 07-Nov-13 11:53:37

Knew guys like your husband years ago. Told their wives they were net working.

No they weren't, they were getting pissed down the pub. None of them remained married.
You would seriously be better off without him. He is bringing nothing to the table but stress and work. If you were on your own you could organise your life and your kids lives so much better.
Certainly wouldn't put up with this crap.
If he does get made redundant it is only going to get worse. Just imagine you at work all day coming home to a outstretched hand for cash to go down the boozer. Or he starts to drink during the day whilst looking after your little ones. Get him out now whilst he still has a job it will be harder later

BeautifulBlondePineapple Thu 07-Nov-13 11:57:08

What a horrible way to live. He isn't contributing much to family life is he? And although you say he loves you, he sure doesn't act like it.

I think you should write him a letter telling him what you think the problems are, what you would like him to do to change and when this change has to take place. That way, he cannot misinterpret your words or change them later to suit himself.

If he argues about it then ask him to leave. If he agrees, then give him a last chance to prove it. If he fails to keep whatever agreement you put in place, then kick him out pronto.

UriGeller Thu 07-Nov-13 11:58:24

He's an addict. To alcohol and to his job. You'll be helping him get things into perspective if you can put it to him plainly. Perhaps you DO need to organise AA for him.. It sounds like he was asking for your help there, in a very macho way.

I don't agree with the ltb cries. He needs help. Apart from everything else, he's missing out on the lives of your children. Soon they'll be of an age where they will remember their dad as a vague, mostly absent shadow figure that smelled of drink.

LovesBeingHereAgain Thu 07-Nov-13 12:21:36

This is who he wants to be, you don't love this version of him.

It is NOT her job to organise AA for him, he would likely not attend any such sessions anyway. He is an adult, not a child.

The image you portray of him Uri is probably very similar to how his eldest child sees him now; some distant and shadowy figure that makes her mother very unhappy and sad.

OP can only help her own self and her children.

If this has gone on for years as well, where is the line drawn?. How much longer should she have to wait to see if there is an epiphany on his part?.

This was my life. For 15 years. It never got better, he had flings, spent so much money we could never afford holidays or a nice car. But he 'loved' me. What he was doing was 'normal! (socially). It was what 'everyone' did.

So I sucked it up and waited. Until one day I woke up and realised I would never be happy with him. So I left. It took me a year to get in a place where I could. And, of course, I was the biggest bitch ever, but I left. Hard, but so relived I never looked back.

I have a real life now. A normal one, with a lovely normal husband. Not tagging onto some alcoholic, cheating charmers coat tails. Wiping up after them.

Good luck, I hope you get what you deserve sooner than I did.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 12:50:22

Atilla not longer than 2 days without drink.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 12:51:57

I would also say I identify with being the provoker..and ashamed to say I do bring tjings up and let resentment build.

Two days. What does that tell you about him?.

Honestly this is no life for yourself and by turn your children is it?.

If someone else was writing what you have written down, what would your counsel be to them?.

haveyourselfashandy Thu 07-Nov-13 12:53:30

He will never change.Either accept your life as it is or start taking steps to ensure your and your dc's happiness.Because you will never have a happy and fulfilled life with this man and your children will never have the father they deserve.They have a chance if you build a loving and secure home with them.I'm speaking from experience.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 12:53:57

Thank you everybody. I sm going to do something about this.

I'm going to make him a GP appointment and make him get some help to recognise he has a drink problem.

I can't keeo living like this.

People in such relationships act out roles within it; you are and have been acting as the Provoker here. This is why I highlighted it. You are also enabling him by simply being there and keeping house.

Its not helping you or your H for that matter; the only way forward for you ultimately is to actually get off the merry go around that is alcoholism. You (and by turn your children) are being profoundly affected by his drinking.

What you have tried to date has not worked; time for a different tack now.

showtunesgirl Thu 07-Nov-13 12:58:58

OP, no you can't keep living like this but it's not up to you to do something about his behaviour. He has to want to change. He has to want to go to the GP himself. And above all he has to realise himself that he has a problem.

"I'm going to make him a GP appointment and make him get some help to recognise he has a drink problem".

No, no and no because a) he is capable of doing that himself so stop enabling b, its a wasted effort again on your part and c) he does not want yours or anyone else's help anyway. He's already stated that he wants you to organise counselling for him but its not your job to do so. He is also refusing to admit he has a drink problem so why do you think a GP could convince him otherwise?.

What about you as well; why are you really still there and putting up with this?. What needs of yours are being met here?.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up?.

haveyourselfashandy Thu 07-Nov-13 13:07:44

Don't waste any of your energy on trying to make him see he has a problem.He will already know he has a problem op,he just doesn't want to do anything about it.save your energy for you and your dc.

stowsettler Thu 07-Nov-13 13:12:55

I'm going to make him a GP appointment and make him get some help to recognise he has a drink problem.

Oh dear, OP. Please look back and read Attila's posts. You are enabling again.

dozeydoris Thu 07-Nov-13 13:14:31

*I do bring tjings up and let resentment build*---- Goodness, how awful of you --not not not!

Several posters have said that they eventually plucked up courage to leave a similar relationship and regret they didn't do it earlier.

The problem is the fear of setting out on your own with all the responsibilities of children, money, home, work. No wonder people stay stuck in a hopeless situation.

Perhaps OP you could start looking at what you possibilities there are for you if you did go it alone (and leave him to sort himself out, which he might). Do you have family who can help out? Can you freeze the mortgage for a year to give you breathing space? Would you move nearer family? etc etc. And see if you can get a plan in place which would take away some of the 'fear of the unknown'.

ThreeTomatoes Thu 07-Nov-13 13:55:29

AA questionnaire and also this one. If he agreed to do these sorts of questionnaires (honestly), it would show him without a doubt that he is an alcoholic. I doubt very much he will agree to do them though and even if he did, he would still find away to deny it/explain it somehow - plus it doesn't help of course that drinking is very much part of his work & social culture.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 14:23:34

I don't know what else to do. I don't want to leave him we love each other and he loves his children but at the same time I can't keep living like this.

I want to help him but he won't admit there's a problem. What do I do?

Vivacia Thu 07-Nov-13 14:25:49

Do you think that it may help to learn more about alcoholism? Because it sounds as though you can't do anything for him. That's the nature of the problem.

In the meantime, is there anything you can be doing for you and your children?

BasilBabyEater Thu 07-Nov-13 14:34:01

BikerMice you have to accept that there is nothing you can do.

This is his problem. Only he can solve it. He's not interested in solving it because he doesn't see it as a problem. There is nothing you can do about it.

You just have to accept the fact that if you continue to live with him, you are making the choice to bring your children up in a dysfunctional, alcoholic household and to condemn yourself to that horrible way of living. You can't solve that because the only person who can solve it is the alcoholic himself.

It's your life and your choice but be very clear-sighted about the reality of what your choices mean.

Talk to Al-Anon. Really, it will help you.

SkullyAndBones Thu 07-Nov-13 14:35:42

leave him..

seriously.

leave him.

if the shouting, the crying the begging the explaining and everything else hasnt worked, and he still refuses to see he has a problem, SHOW HIM WHAT HE STANDS TO LOSE.

take yourself and the kids and LEAVE.

Tell him if he wants this to work, if he wants you back then he NEEDS to get help. Then its his choice.

If he doesn't get help, you're not having to live amongst the fall out or further subject your kids to it.

You keep saying he loves you and the children, but you're not really giving any evidence of that.

He must not even see the kids during the week and is too hungover on the weekend to take care of them.

He has ZERO respect for you and obviously does not care about your health at all, and in fact is probably making the PND worse. How can he love you if he doesn't care whether you are okay? That makes no sense.

For some reason you still love him, and I guess you have to insist he loves you too or else it's not worth it.

But I'm sorry, I don't see how anyone could treat someone they love like this. I wouldn't even treat someone I dislike like this.

"I don't know what else to do. I don't want to leave him we love each other and he loves his children but at the same time I can't keep living like this"

But you are living like this and are actively choosing to live like this currently. He will also do great harm to yours and your childrens mental health is you were to choose to stay together.

"I want to help him but he won't admit there's a problem. What do I do?"

You cannot help someone who does not want to be helped. What would it take for you to realise that fact properly?. If he won't admit there is a problem there is nothing you can do or say to change that choice he has made for his own self.

Why don't you want to leave him?. Genuine question. What is stopping you?.

You may well love him but he loves alcohol more than you and alcohol is a cruel mistress. His priority in life is drink and his thoughts centre around where the next drink is coming from. You wrote as well that the longest he has gone without drink is two days.

Flicktheswitch Thu 07-Nov-13 14:52:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Not sure if anyone else has memtioned this but if he drinks till 2 oe 3am then leaves the house at 7 hes likely to be driving drunk too.

MILLYMOLLYMANDYMAX Thu 07-Nov-13 15:23:57

Can I ask Biker how do you know your husband loves you and the children when he spends so much time away from the family home and "pissing money up a wall" as my grandfather would say when describing men who would spend their weeks wages down the pub on a Friday night.
When do you see him stone cold sober. Certainly not at 7am in the morning when he has been drinking till 2-3am?

CinnabarRed Thu 07-Nov-13 17:30:32

I'm so sorry, but he doesn't love you, or your children.

Certainly not more than he loves the alcohol.

You will always always come 2nd. At best.

Leave him. That is all you can do.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 20:03:39

Things aren't going well tonight at all. He said he needs one or two nights a week of getting completely drunk and going off the radar to escape me being a nag and hearing all our problems. He thinks being an alcoholic means waking up and needing a drink and not functioning at work. He said he doesn't see what he does as being abnormal in anyway. He calls me buying food or furniture that we need as my treats and he should be able to go out and get blind drunk whenever the mood takes him as his treats.

So my treats are a tesco shop and buying essential things we need whilst his is indulging in alcohol.

leaving him isn't as easy as you all say its fucking hard leaving your husband who you love wheb you have pnd and two children under 2. I wabt to grow old together and be able to trust sbd rely on him but I'll never be able to do that.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 20:04:31

stealth he gets public transport.

something2say Thu 07-Nov-13 20:10:47

Aww sweetheart. sad

I hear you. But he seems to want something different doesn't he. X

How can you minimize the impact from him? Stop waiting for him? Stop nagging him to change? Stop rowing about it? Talk to someone else about your disappointment that he won't change instead of him?

And how can you improve life in other ways? Say seeing friends more, cooking for yourself and not waiting on him, making weekend plans like a single mum?

All a sticking plaster I know, placed over what seems to be a wound...

puzi Thu 07-Nov-13 20:13:23

Hi Biker. I imagine the thought of leaving him is just a bit too overwhelming at the moment with such a young baby and PND. Look after yourself, try and get better. I think you are doing an AMAZING job looking after 2 young children essentially as a single mum cake

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 20:16:27

Thank you something as sad as it is thats what im going to do from now on. Learn to never rely on him again and act like a single parent. Maybe one day he'll see the light hit rock bottom and we can try to rebuild our family again.

for now I'm essentially going to act like a single mum and not have expectations anymore.

Thank you all for listening.

BikerMiceFromMars Thu 07-Nov-13 20:17:14

Thank you puzi

JoinYourPlayfellows Thu 07-Nov-13 20:21:04

"He said he needs one or two nights a week of getting completely drunk and going off the radar to escape me being a nag and hearing all our problems."

He doesn't love you at all.

Nobody who loved someone would say something so repulsively hateful to them.

He NEEDS to get pissed and be uncontactable (so he can shag other women? certainly a live possibility) on a regular basis because you (and your life together) is SO AWFUL?

Jesus, just be a proper single parent.

The quickest way of seeing if anything will wake him up to what a fucking twat he is and realising he has a problem is losing his family.

Twinklestein France Thu 07-Nov-13 20:25:45

You want to be able to grow old with a trustworthy man not an irresponsible alcoholic. Leaving your partner is very hard if he is a dependable, good husband & father. But when you are basically a single mother having to deal with his issues & lack of support on top of everything else, life actually gets easier once you leave.

Sidge Thu 07-Nov-13 20:33:54

Love, it IS hard leaving your husband, regardless of how old your children are. It's especially hard when you have 2 so young and have PND.

But you know what's harder? Living a lonely life full of misery and knowing you play second fiddle to something else, whether that's another woman, work, gambling, alcohol or drugs. It is FAR harder being married and lonely and parenting alone than truly doing it alone. There is nothing so soul destroying as knowing you are alone in a marriage.

Vivacia Thu 07-Nov-13 20:34:21

From the outside it looks to me as though things would be better apart, even if just in the medium term. He'd have to pay maintenance, so finances might be fairer and more reliable. You wouldn't have his laundry, pots etc on top of your housework. Him spending time with the children would be more reliable too.

Twinklestein France Thu 07-Nov-13 20:37:53

The other issue is that you really don't want him drunk round your children... if he can't/won't get his drinking under control, then you really need to protect them...

SkullyAndBones Thu 07-Nov-13 20:42:31

it is hard Biker, but i did it.. i took the kids who were 2 and 4 at the time and i walked.

I was lucky that i had somewhere to go and family to support me, but making that decision to finally after years of crap to say "ENOUGH" and take that step and tell him if he didnt sort himself out then we were done was the hardest fucking thing i ever did.

but he did sort himself out, he did everything i asked and after 9 months of living elsewhere i came back and 2yrs later we're stronger than ever.

But as i said, it WAS hard, it was SO fucking hard, it took me a long fucking time to find the balls to do it.. but it was the best decision i ever made.

itzdrk Thu 07-Nov-13 20:45:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Thu 07-Nov-13 20:51:19

Surely he's the one who should be leaving, not the OP? She's the children's main carer, no?

Why should the children have to be dragged from their home?
OP, it's an early stage in your thought processes and things may change for the better (although I'm sorry to say I doubt that).

But find out what your rights are; go to cab or ask for a free half hour at a solicitor (if such a thing still exists). Don't assume you're the one who has to leave in order to effect change.

Twinklestein France Thu 07-Nov-13 20:53:28

Absolutely. I understood 'leaving' here as figurative - as in separate not leave the house. He can fuck off until he can behave.

RevelsRoulette Thu 07-Nov-13 20:58:39

You aren't going to get what you want.

Doesn't matter how much you want it, you aren't going to get it and you have to face up to that. What you decide to do about that is up to you, but don't fool yourself that just because you wish something will be a certain way, means it's going to happen.

And re the furniture and food shopping for the family are your treats thing - you have no idea what he said to you, do you? He told you that to him, you are a household appliance. He doesn't see you as a person. You are part of the house, serving the household needs.

I am not going to tell you to leave. I haven't made that choice and so it would be hypocritical of me to go all "LTB" on your arse, but I tell you that wishing will do you fuck all good and if it is your choice to stay, you will be miserable.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Thu 07-Nov-13 21:01:25

So, the conclusion the Op comes to after reading her thread is that all she can do is STFU and keep the status quo

that is the saddest thing I have read today

BasilBabyEater Thu 07-Nov-13 21:09:48

Right, so he needs to get blotto twice a week because he's an alcoholic (you know people who aren't alcoholics don't need to do that, don't you?)

And what you need, is of no interest to him.

What your children need, is of no interest to him.

Have you spoken to Al Anon?

They won't tell you to leave him. But they will support you to deal with his drinking and with your responses to it.

You already know you can't have what you want from him. sad

BasilBabyEater Thu 07-Nov-13 21:11:17

Oh and telling you you're a nag (because you talk about stuff that matters and you talk about yourself as if you matter, when actually you're just a convenience) is blaming you for his drinking.

That's what alcoholics do. They blame everyone else but themselves for their drinking.

OvaryAction Thu 07-Nov-13 21:17:46

So you're going to act like a single parent and wait for him to one day, after years of you raising his children, keeping his home, cooking for him, allowing him to treat you and speak to you like shit and allowing him to do whatever the fuck he wants without ever challenging him, decide that he'd rather treat you as an equal and give you the respect you deserve thus giving up his incredibly self centered, luxurious lifestyle?

It's not going to happen OP

Why not just get rid of this cocklodger, be a single parent and find your own happiness?
Honestly, it seems like such a huge obstacle but leaving a shitty partner is so liberating and a massive relief once you get over the initial hurdle.

You deserve better.

Nagoo Thu 07-Nov-13 21:19:02

How would your life be different if he wasn't in it?

I can't see how it could be worse. He is not doing anything to make your life easier at all. If he went out and stayed out, you'd manage, you've managed so far when all he's bought in the door is uncertainty that upsets your life.

newlifeforme Thu 07-Nov-13 21:22:16

Biker, I was in your position years ago.My ex was a lovely man and I loved him very much but he had an alcohol problem.I finally left when my dad was 5.It was so hard as I could just see how happy we could be IF he stopped drinking but nothing I said would make a difference.Leaving was the best thing I did, I dread to think how my daughter would have grown up had I stayed.As a young adult she talks about her friends who have parents that drink excessively, there is a real impact on their lives.

I have a good relationship with my ex, he is still a nice man but he still drinks too much.Your H is using alcohol to cope, its a crutch and its beyond social drinking.

At some stage you will feel stronger and can leave, you are already coping as a single person.That will enable you to function really well.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 07-Nov-13 21:25:46

Basilbabyeater is correct. The alcoholics mantra 'Always Somebody Else to Blame'.

Squeegle Thu 07-Nov-13 22:03:50

My ex was like this. Always used to turn off phone when out drinking. Unpredictable. Never home when he said. Money down the drain. Attacked me if I thought it was unfair. He is now my ex. Things actually were easier when he moved out. I was doing everything myself anyway. A lightbulb moment for me was when I realised that there is no way on earth I would ever treat him the way he treated me. And if I had ve done, he would have left me.

BasilBabyEater Thu 07-Nov-13 22:09:28

Biker have you had any counselling for the PND? Also for the drinking, you could do with specialist counselling for that.

Sorry you are living like this, it is horrible to be in a relationship with someone who is treating you the way your OH is and I can see that denial is a self-defence mechanism. The thought of not having him in your home anymore, is horrifying and scary.

I just have to add something else though: If you make the choice to keep this man and his drinking in your home, you also make that choice for your children. You cannot protect them from being the children of an alcoholic. Lots of people who live with alcoholics, figure that they can manage it and minimise the damage caused to the children but however successful they think they're being, they still can't stop the fact that their partner drinks and their DC's grow up in a home where booze is the primary relationship in all their lives.

Apart from the booze, the way your OH treats you, is role modelling to his DC's how adult relationships work. Would you be happy if your DC's grew up and married someone who treated them the way you are treated?

This is what you are choosing for your DC's so you need to look that fact straight in the eye and know that you are choosing it if you decide that the role modelling that's best for your DC's, is to act as if you are a single parent when you're pretending to the rest of the world that you're part of a couple. Do you really want that to be their expectation of a relationship? I bet you think they deserve better. I wish you could believe that you deserve better too.

RunLikeSomeFeckersChasing Thu 07-Nov-13 22:46:36

I am so tempted to tell you to leave but I shall not.

I've had two DC with the same kind of age gap and PND plus had to return to work pretty early as self employed, even with a very supportive DH it was so hard. And DH was making meals, taking DC1 out at weekends to allow me and DC2 duvet days, accepting I needed a cleaner and some childcare to function and generally had my back. Please look into counselling. It was a wonderful thing for me and I got out of the hole and saw the sun again sooner than I could have ever imagined. I found a group in my locale who did free counselling and had my first session a week after I called and cried down the phone for an hour. Get support from your Gp and hv as well for the PND. It's out there, you need it, you deserve it.

I have also been your DC though. My df is an alcoholic. You wouldn't call him abusive. Hail fellow well met. Charming. Outgoing. Wife a bit of a wet blanket. I love him very much but I would not choose my childhood for my children. DFs alcholism left its mark on my personally. I am a perfectionist control freak who can never relax and just be. Because my childhood taught me that there is never certainty around anything. Because my fathers alcoholism could explode into my wee world at any unforeseen moment like a grenade. I won't pretend my childhood has ruined my adulthood but my fathers alcoholism has had no postive impacts on my life.

If I can advise you, take this thread or start another to support you through your PND. Then look at your relationship. What it means to love and be loved by someone and what you deserve from your life partner. Because you deserve more.

So sorry you are going through this op. As others have all said you're worth more than this and your life shouldnt be this way.
Thanks for clarifying the driving issue x

jbakedbean Fri 08-Nov-13 02:35:14

My ex was like this. We had 2 children under 2. I asked him to leave. He didn't put up much of a fight but did manage to tell all his pub mates how much he loved me and how devasted he was.

I Never took him back. He now makes time for the children when he has them. I have also said there is a no drinking rule when he is responsible for them. (He thought it was reasonable to play golf, have a few pints and then pick them up to drive 1.5hrs!!!

HenD19 Fri 08-Nov-13 03:28:45

OP please, please don't put up with this shit. He does not love you and is taking the absolute piss. You need to do something now. Take action rather than burying your head.

Val007 Fri 08-Nov-13 06:06:02

You keep saying he loves you and the children, but really... he doesn't. His actions prove it time and again. You love him and are looking for any excuse not to leave him. You'll leave one day. Not now, but in a 1-2-3 years' time. I just feel for you and the suffering you will put yourself and the kids through before you realise that you can't change him. The kids can't. It's impossible. He needs to do it himself.

catameringue Fri 08-Nov-13 07:47:47

Op,

This must be so hard for you. It's grieving in a way for the marriage that you want but do not have with him.

My concern if you stay is that there are no indication he will change anytime soon, his drinking, his attitude or his behaviour. I can only imagine what a negative environment that is to live in.

Take care of yourself op.

Katisha Fri 08-Nov-13 08:03:26

He has to understand what he is going to lose. The only way to do that is make him leave. He may then decide he has to change in order to regain his family and seek help. As things stand he doesn't have to change at all, even if you withdraw emotionally. That will just mean he can carry on drinking.i think you should talk to al anon as suggested above. For yourself.

MILLYMOLLYMANDYMAX Fri 08-Nov-13 10:10:00

As I said before the ones I knew who did this ended up divorced and 3 posters on this page alone here have referred to their ex's having been like this. The enphasis on my ex.
Stop waiting around. When do you think he is going to quit getting blind drunk 3-4 x per week. He is only going to get worse, 3-4 x per week will turn into 5x then 6x then every night.
I presume you have a nice house and friends and might think you will loose the house and loose face if you split. But it is only bricks and mortar and no one who is truly your friend will think any less of you if you end up in a rented flat instead of your nice owned home. Remember you have a job and without him in the way you can get back on your feet. You can budget, put your feet up in the evening and not have to worry about what he is getting up to or what time he will be home with your food. Or what money he is spending or who he is with. Living like you do with all the stress cannot be doing your PND any good.
Think of the next 10 years, you could dump him, organise yourself, get back on your feet and even meet someone who will treat you like you should be treated. Or you could maintain the status quo and end up 10 years older, loosing your home because your oh cannot work because of his alcoholism and end up in a rented flat cleaning up after him and working full time.
I have seen this scenario before and the wives always end up with happy lives with lovely men who treat them well.
Could your PND be linked to the way your life is at the moment? I cannot see how this sort of stress can be doing you any good.

HMQueen Fri 08-Nov-13 18:25:23

I had a 5 yr old and 9mo old who didn't sleep when I was in your position. I nearly chucked him out but I couldn't go through with it because I felt I hadn't given him enough time to try to change and, realistically, with a tiny child even though he did F all with children, my head wasn't in the right place. I don't think you can leave him now. But you need to tell him very clearly how this is making you feel (rather than HE is always doing x or y wrong). Write it down somewhere for yourself and put it somewhere safe. I am now 2 years down the line and he moved out 2 months ago. We get on better and I am very much calmer about everything. He hasn't changed at all even though he has lost his family, but the 2 years allowed me to feel totally sure when I did finally crack and there's no going back now with all the shit I have put up with - the love has gone. You need to see a counsellor just to put it all in perspective for you too. 2 years will seem a long time for some, but there it is.

My DH doesn't drink quite as much as yours, OP, and a lot of it is at home, usually after I've gone to bed, but I have had to make the "single mother decision" too. To me preferable than being a real single mother (with HUGE apologies to all you real, brave single mothers out there). I still resent him like hell and give him all sorts of trouble after the fact, unless I'm ignoring it and him. I guess I vacillate between Martyr and Provoker. It's shit, but the times he is here and present and participating in our family life make up for it. So far.

Geckos48 Fri 08-Nov-13 19:03:16

Hi OP

Give him an ultimatum, have someone mind the kids for a night and have a meal together and just tell him what you are saying to us, that you need things to change or you are just going to have to go at it alone, make him clear what that will mean for your relationship.

Be strong and firm and decisive. Give him the opportunity to change.

savemefromrickets Fri 08-Nov-13 19:05:36

Poor you, it sounds like being a single mum would be easier but it's one of those things that you don't know until you try!!

In the meantime, can you see if your local
Home start can help. Mine offered a PND support course - and the childcare to allows me to do it.

I'd also look into Al Anon. It'd be useful to educate yourself about how things may develop in the future.

Nanny0gg England Fri 08-Nov-13 20:40:21

I don't know what else to do. I don't want to leave him we love each other and he loves his children

You keep repeating this, but I would ask you - why do you love him? What is it that is loveable?
Where is the evidence that he loves you or the children? He doesn't see enough of you (of his own choice) for that to be true.

Read your posts as if someone else had written them - what would you say to that poster?

Do you have any family or friends who can see what is happening and could support you?

Scarletohello Fri 08-Nov-13 20:57:47

Either he is an alcoholic or a selfish arse. He sounds immature and irresponsible. Love is a verb, it's about action, so how can he love you when he treats you like this? He won't change unless he realises he could lose his family.

cjel Fri 08-Nov-13 22:35:55

I'm not convinced that he loves you or your Dcs, A loving father would want to see them as often as he can and wouldn't say he has to drink to get away from you and your nagging. He would also not need to be asked to 'help' he would be rushing home to do it because he cared.

Get the help that you need and then you will be in a better position to make choices.xx

Oh Op, would you treat him that way?

He won't be growing old with anyone Op, its his choice.

DressingGown Sat 09-Nov-13 07:47:33

Oh my DP used to say he would stay out because he was sick of coming home and me nagging him about drinking. Of course, I wouldn't have been nagging if he weren't drinking! It's nonsense saying he has to stay out because of you. You do realise that, don't you? He'll make any excuse to ensure he can keep drinking.

No great insights from counselling yet - other than to realise how neglected I felt for so long. I'm feeling so much more positive about things now. There's a whole world of possibility out there. It's just that I spent so long keeping it together and keeping DP out of trouble that I forgot to raise my head every once in a while and think about me and what I want.

I really do wish you all the best. His behaviour is not your fault (I don't think this enabler talk does anything other than increase the guilt). You can change it. You can't cure it. Please try to prioritise you and your DCs. You only get one life. Please think about what would make you happy. x

DressingGown Sat 09-Nov-13 07:48:05

Oops - you CAN'T change his behaviour, obvs.

CookieDoughKid Sat 09-Nov-13 08:31:06

Oh my OP. I could have written this 5yrs ago. I was in similar circumstances. Nothing I said had any affect so I left the bastard.

Kicked him out.
I was gloriously single for 1year working full time with two toddlers.

He's now completely changed for the better and realises he is dependent on drink. It's his crux. He won't touch the stuff at all. We are happily back together after him learning what I will not tolerate.

insanityscratching Sat 09-Nov-13 08:31:12

Op ds2 was 5 months and ds1 was nearly two when I threw out dh because of his inability to put our family before the drink and it was far less frequent than your dp. He gave up drinking that week but I still made him stay away a full year to prove that he could stop off the drink. During that year he became the husband I wanted and the father our boys deserved. It will soon be our silver wedding anniversary and dh hasn't touched alcohol for more than twenty years.
It's only when your dp realises that he will lose you will he decide whether or not alcohol means more to him than his family.
Put you and your children first and show your dp that you won't stand for coming second to the bottle.

Retroformica Sat 09-Nov-13 08:48:14

He is clearly an alcoholic and placing alcohol/friends/single life above his families needs. He loves his family but not enough to put family needs first. What kind of role model is he? The kids will grow up aware that their father is a piss head and waister

123bucklemyshoe Sat 09-Nov-13 08:55:15

You are worth more than this. (that is all I have to say)

Retroformica Sat 09-Nov-13 08:57:39

Can you give him a choice. Either support you fully this month or go drinking instead and don't come back.

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