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This is hard work (new thread EA update)

(63 Posts)
intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 13:41:03

Hi all. Starting a new thread to reflect 'new' start with DP - sorry, don't know how to link to previous thread. The short version for new readers is that my DP had an emotional affair, which is now over apart from one small thing, and we are supposedly reconnecting. I have been reading as much as I can, although it's hard to find uninterrupted time - there's always somebody wanting my attention, or more immediate jobs to be done eg tax return. DP has been having lots of early nights, so no adult talking has been done, and now he's ill. 3 days of a cold, groans, sighs, sniffles, coughs, and now his sinuses are playing up - steaming at 4am, hence more tired. Minor gigs are coming in for him, so a bit of extra income, but it's never good enough for him, so he practises more, complains that he's washed up, out of favour, etc etc - you get the jist. Oh and yesterday I changed my mind about something we'd planned to do do and got 'nothing I (DP)ever do is right!'
I want to talk about US, but he is all about HIM, and I never feel that I'll get a useful/helpful conversation if the time isn't right.
SO, any work I can do is on myself, and I've done a lot of reflecting about boundaries, especially in regard to previous relationships. I'm still looking for an appropriate counsellor for me (not convinced about Relate) - I think I need more than just relationship counselling - maybe something more deep rooted.
Apologies for the ramble - I'm ok, thanks to those who have asked, not great, but ok. have had long talk with ds and he seems more at ease.
Any advice about what else I could be doing greatly received.

Apileofanyfuckers Sun 03-Nov-13 13:44:59

Just glad you are ok. I am hardly in a position to advise - but be kind to yourself. Get treats for you. Is he still in the spare room?

IAmNotAMindReader Sun 03-Nov-13 13:50:09

All you can do is work on yourself. The right time may never come if he is going to stay wrapped in his own bubble.
A few things could happen here

You could learn to accept the status quo. You may decide to leave things as they are and concentrate on yourself and find other things to fulfil your life with.

You stay on your path and he eventually wakes up and starts to talk and fix the things he can or seeks help to.

He stays in his self absorbed bubble and you realise you don't have to deal with it anymore.

No one can tell you what to do but accepting any of these paths or others you may find without being truly happy to do so or expecting a different outcome is going to be harmful to your mental health.

Loopytiles Sun 03-Nov-13 14:51:52

Hi there inthedusk. Sorry things still not great.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 15:18:56

So he's still carrying on the lessons and he's being horrible to you?

In what sense are you "supposedly reconnecting"?

He is avoiding you and being a dick.

itsmeisntit Sun 03-Nov-13 15:30:59

you could LTB as was suggested in your last threads.
He doesn't respect you, does not acknowledge that he crossed your line many times. He is still carrying on the lessons despite your numerous pleading to ceases these.
He is continuing to behave exactly as always-it's all him him him and him.
Save yourself any futher heartache and ditch him

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 15:38:33

I expected these responses.

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 15:43:32

I've followed your other threads and I'd been wondering how you were doing.

Sorry to hear things aren't great. It sounds like you're still doing all the work and he's still doing as he pleases and avoiding you. Now with an added layer of self pity and wallowing.

Attractive.

I think counselling for you is a good idea, but be wary of taking on too much responsibility for this. By all means explore your own boundaries and why you're continuing to put up with this. But don't use counselling as a way to try and change yourself so you can 'fix it'.

Upnotdown Sun 03-Nov-13 15:45:25

It's not really moving forward or past it if he hasn't given her up and gone NC. That's just you turning a blind eye, isn't it? Or am I missing something?

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 16:11:20

I am wide awake to what is going on. Part of my problem is my unwillingness to just come out and say 'I need to talk about this'. I've always shied away from conflict, don't know why.
I'm going to give this my best shot for the children's sake. It was good once and I believe it can be again.
Having done some research I know that I CAN walk away if I want to, I really do have options.
What I'd like on here is some practical advice - how do you get your DP to talk and how do you listen without wanting to punish him/shout/stab???

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 16:16:34

"how do you get your DP to talk"

You ask.

That's all it should take to get this conversation started.

"how do you listen without wanting to punish him/shout/stab???"

grin

Why shouldn't you want to do those things?

If you want to do preternatural calm, then just decide in advance not to respond to anything he says in any definite way and just nod along.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Sun 03-Nov-13 16:30:53

OP you're getting these responses because it all sounds a bit one sided. You can't save this relationship by yourself, he needs to put some serious work into it. I know you've mentioned working on yourself- and that's fantastic- but if you aren't working together on anything, aren't you just two people occupying the same space rather than two people 'connecting'? What is the point is staying together? I don't think anyone is criticising your choice but are actually trying to stop you from taking the burden of this relationship on alone.
When you discussed all this 'reconnecting', did the two of you out a plan in place? Did you establish what needed to change and how? Of course you might be able to save this relationship- but you can't do it on your own by 'working on yourself'.

"How do you get your dp to talk?"
If he loved you and respected you and wanted to make the relationship work, you wouldn't need to ask the question because he would be bending over backwards for your forgiveness. As it is, you are doing all the bending over backwards just like you have been all along.
Chuck him out. Tell him if he wants to make it work, her better start doing some work. If you're scared this will mean you lose him then I think you have your answer.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 16:38:03

I want to be able to get the best response from DP. He won't talk to me if he thinks I'm going to have a go at him (again), and I'd like to sound to him like an equal adult and not a nagging mother or a needy child. I'm afraid my voice or my face will let me down. Any tips?

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 16:43:05

"How do you get your DP to talk?"

Well you can't if he doesn't want to. And he patently doesn't want to.

That in itself speaks volumes.

Handywoman Sun 03-Nov-13 16:44:46

Is there a link to the original thread, anyone ? Glad you have your eyes open , OP

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 17:03:41

I want to be able to get the best response from DP. He won't talk to me if he thinks I'm going to have a go at him (again), and I'd like to sound to him like an equal adult and not a nagging mother or a needy child. I'm afraid my voice or my face will let me down. Any tips?

But he's treating you badly and you have a right to object to that. If his interpretation of your objection is that you're 'nagging' or 'having a go', then I'm afraid that is pure deflection on his part.

Talking is going to get you nowhere. Because he's not receptive to anything you have to say. However you couch your approach he'll find a way to turn it around on you and make you out to be a nag. It suits him to have you on the back foot and questioning yourself so that he can carry on his own sweet way.

You need less talk and more action.

Loopytiles Sun 03-Nov-13 17:12:46

" Part of my problem is my unwillingness to just come out and say 'I need to talk about this"

You HAVE talked to him, and been dismissed and ignored, time and again sad.

When the problem is that someone is being a selfish dick you can't get the best out of them by behaving differently or changing yourself and suppressing anger, shifting boundaries.

Chances are you are a loving, caring, tactful, gentle partner. He either wants to be with you or not: if he doesn't (seems that way, sadly) he should admit it.

As for your anger towards him, that's entirely natural in the circumstances.

Loopytiles Sun 03-Nov-13 17:13:43

What went wrong with the couples' counselling inthedusk?

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 17:17:42

Sorry to keep coming back to this and banging on, but I was just thinking more about your last post and I can't believe you're second guessing the expression on your face when you go to talk to him.

Seriously, that is really not normal. How scared of this guy, and how unsure of yourself, are you that you're trying to modify your facial expressions just to get a decent response from him? Look at what he's reducing you to.

That part just really brought it home to me how fucked this situation is OP.

Noctilucent Sun 03-Nov-13 17:24:23

Faulk, you want some practical advice, which I can understand.

From what you describe, however, it will be of no use. His behaviour is that of a man beginning to check out of your relationship. It may not be the mother of his pupil now, but it will be another distraction in the future.

It is good that you are working on boundaries for yourself but you need to show your son that this is not an acceptable way to behave - and you cannot do this without the co-operation of your H. And he is not willing to co-operate as he thinks he has done nothing wrong.

At the very least, he has hurt you. You can tell him this, and you can ask him his he feels about that. But - and it is my opinion only - you are on a hiding to nothing.

He has not given you a crumb. He has not stopped the lessons, said sorry, attended counselling with you. You, however, have read, digested, and are trying to get to the root so you can carry on.

I said this before and I maintain - there is no relationship left to save. You can talk, he can talk, but you will not get the answers you need. So my advice is to gather your strength, prepare your child, and consider moving on.

cjel Sun 03-Nov-13 17:44:02

If it is this much hard work to have a grown up adult conversation with him about something so important and he has no intention of talking to you is it really worth the hassle?

kaizen Sun 03-Nov-13 17:58:18

Have you checked his phone? Given his attitude, I'd be suspicious of his 'early nights'. I think you might find your answer there.

tessa6 Sun 03-Nov-13 18:00:18

Hi dusk

'I want to be able to get the best response from DP. He won't talk to me if he thinks I'm going to have a go at him (again), and I'd like to sound to him like an equal adult and not a nagging mother or a needy child. I'm afraid my voice or my face will let me down. Any tips?'

This really rings bells for me. You are in a relationship with a problematic, unequal dynamic. You are caught in playing either parent or child in exchanges. Of course you cannot confront him properly or rebuild your relationship in this way. PLEASE look at the fact that he won't talk to you if he thinks you're going to 'have a go' at him. You are embracing on a course of even greater repression now. YOu are smart enough to know you have an issue with this, as conflict avoider. And now you are literally looking for tips as to how you can hide your emotions on your face and in your voice. Why not become a robot, OP? Or dance around all the time singing like Nora in 'A Doll's House?'

I'm being horribly facetious, I'm sorry.

But you need to do counseling TOGETHER if this terrible dynamic is going to be addressed at its root. And you are both going to have to become new people, to reconnect differently.

Don't feel punished or mocked because people are commenting on how simple it is to have a conversation. Those who've been in similar relationships will understand, as will those who've gone through the trauma of infidelity. I'm both, OP, and I can tell you that you need to accept a few things before you can move forward. One is that the music lessons thing is a battle that he has won that you may never move on from. You might, but you have had your already low status in this relationship confirmed and that is the worst direction to go in if you truly want to connect as adults in the future.

A more practical tip would be that you need to set aside time, once a week, if you're not doing joint counseling, to sit and talk as 'adults'. YOu cannot use your child's voice or mother voice and if you do, notice it and say out loud, 'I'm reverting to this form of communication again' and make him notice it too. His narcissism sounds almost unassailable but at least you are noticing it. Ask his to retell the story from your point of view, whilst agreeing you will not get angry in the conversation. Rad 'Feel the Fear and do it Anyway'.

I feel for you. I think you are trapped in an unhappy relationship and you are never going to be able to save it alone. All the best.

tessa6 Sun 03-Nov-13 18:00:59

I also agree that he is almost certainly still engaged with an inappropriately intimate relationship with his OW and nothing will change unless he admits that and gives it up. I'm sorry.

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 18:06:36

Yes, I also think he's still having the EA. And I suspect if you were to check his phone or his secret email address (what happened with that btw? Did you ever tell him you read that email?), then you'd find the explanation for all those early nights.

Upnotdown Sun 03-Nov-13 18:10:57

I'm trying to think of practical advice to give you, but you can't stick a key in him, open his mind and take what you need. He has to play ball or everything you are doing to save your relationship is useless.

If he won't talk about it or acknowledge your feelings, where is your reassurance? He needs to feel the pain of it and stop being a ninny. Sinusitis! Tough shit. He can get up to 'steam' at 4am but can't have a conversation...

Think he needs to drop the washed-up woe-is-me tortured-soul act and fucking grow up. He's more bothered that no-one wants to hear him play his banjo or whatever, than he is about how he's made you feel.

Selfish. Arse.

Sorry OP, you seem lovely, but he's taking the piss!

cjel Sun 03-Nov-13 18:12:09

I think counselling with this man will be useless, either he will talk his way round the counsellor by saying things that are untrue or he will not engage.

Thisisaghostlyeuphemism Sun 03-Nov-13 18:20:56

I'm sorry to hear he is still treating you like this. sad

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Sun 03-Nov-13 18:53:28

Great post Tessa.

JollyGolightly Sun 03-Nov-13 19:00:02

Other than wanting to give it your best shot for the kids, why do you want to be with him? Your posts paint a picture of a not very nice man.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 19:21:52

Thanks for the comments. Re early nights - the phone, laptop and tablet are all downstairs while he is upstairs. I have checked the phone bills and the emails - nothing. I agree that he is unable to give up the tiny bit of contact he still has with OW and I'm not letting that go.
Re facial expressions, I just meant that If I try to talk to him with a face like thunder his defenses will go up and I won't get anything that i need. Even in the one counselling session together he commented on a 'look' on my face - i had no idea I was doing anything! When I mentioned counselling again he just said 'we're ok now aren't we?'. I have to look after ME, not to fix it, but just so that I don't make this the story of my life.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 19:24:13

"Even in the one counselling session together he commented on a 'look' on my face - i had no idea I was doing anything! "

Maybe you weren't?

Perhaps he uses this as a deflection technique so he doesn't have to talk about things he doesn't want to talk about.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Sun 03-Nov-13 19:27:15

More people posted while I was typing. Jolly - if you met him, you'd like him. You would see the good side, unfortunately I'm getting the monster side. I guess if I were getting the good side, I wouldn't be on here! I think he's depressed (S.A.D?) and maybe MLC. Not excusing him though. Got to go - DS wants to play Poker. ????

cjel Sun 03-Nov-13 19:31:14

sorry - but you are excusing him, Why ever he does it is irrelevant.It is wrong.

JollyGolightly Sun 03-Nov-13 19:37:08

You should get the good side, Faulk. It's not acceptable for him to treat you this way. The work you are doing on yourself will lead you to realise this, I hope.

MatryoshkaDoll Sun 03-Nov-13 19:41:37

"Even in the one counselling session together he commented on a 'look' on my face - i had no idea I was doing anything! "

Classic manipulation and deflection.

Now your focus is on your face and voice rather than his shitty behaviour.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP Sun 03-Nov-13 19:55:20

When he said 'we're good now aren't we?' what was your response? Why the help does he think everything is fine when he hasn't made any effort to talk to you or to repair things?

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace Sun 03-Nov-13 22:29:06

I'd like to sound to him like an equal adult and not a nagging mother or a needy child. I'm afraid my voice or my face will let me down. Any tips?

If he's anything like my STBXH (and I've said before he seems similarly narcissistic), then my tip would be don't be his partner, because I think that he doesn't believe it should be a relationship of equal adults.

I had to endure the monster while everyone else saw the charming side, too. Now we're separated, he treats me much nicer: cooking me lovely dinners while I was still living with him, now jumping to appear reasonable with everything he says (it's all still manipulation and he is still the only one who counts in his life).

This separation is probably the only time in my life that I've stood up to him - I avoided conflict (although not in the early days, so I think I learned back then that it never solved anything and usually just created a hassle). I still do avoid conflict, but am going to learn to stand up to him gradually. I find it easier to stand up to him when it's increasing the distance between us rather than tying me more to him.

I hope I'm not waffling unhelpfully!

Oh, I do have a tip. Get this little book and read it. It might give you a laugh or two.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 00:32:54

To summarise:

1) he is still seeing the OW and nothing you have said is going to stop him

2) you are supposed to be "reconnecting" but he won't even talk to you and avoids you every chance he can get (early nights, complaints of ManFlu etc)

3) you are now so self conscious about your facial expression and tone of voice you daren't even open your mouth, therefore he has effectively used various tactics to make you STFU and every single one has been very effective

4) you seem to think you have reassured your son that everything is ok (not forgetting he was so distressed at witnessing his father's inappropriate relationship he had to bring it up with you). How is that possible though, when he is still seeing the same dynamic at play that allowed his father to treat you with such disrespect in the first place

OP, you truly are going round in ever-decreasing circles. What would it take for you to simply get off the merry-go-round ?

lovetheprintedword Mon 04-Nov-13 11:19:15

I'm sorry he's being so awful inthedusk You deserve better and I guess what you're saying is that you are trying to work out how to teach yourself to believe that! We can all see that you are worth more.

It's dead easy to sit on a keyboard and tell you what to say or do. It's not so easy when it's your life. I bet you half of us wouldn't find it so easy to LTB or tell him this or that.

However - what does the future look like for you if you don't? Are you going to be with a man who fell in love/attraction with someone else, and wasn't even sorry enough to give up contact with her? Who respected you so little? Who treats you like a nagging mother not an equal who deserves partnership and honesty.

I've noticed a few threads where you've said he makes breakfast in bed, hoovers, cooks the tea etc as his signs that he's trying hard, and I'm afraid this just stays in the nagging mother/child parameters. Firstly, why shouldn't he do all those things anyway, when you are equal partners running a home?, and secondly, those things do not cancel out the other, less practical, more emotional things he owes you.

If you are going to move forward together, you HAVE to be able to talk to each other about whatever is on your minds, whenever it is on your mind. Even if it's going to cause a blazing row, or you've said it all before, or you have a 'certain look on your face'. You just have to. If you don't think you can talk to him, that's just the end.

I wish I could make you see that his response is so, so wrong. Even going to bed early is wrong. He should be doing everything in his power to make you feel loved, respected, desired and cherished, after the way he has behaved.

Unfortunately, by saying you'd leave if he didn't stop the lessons, and then not leaving, you have effectively given him permission to do whatever the hell he wants.

Are you sure he hasn't got another (PAYG) phone that you don't know about?

Finally, there's a phrase that partners of addicts are often taught, but I think it's useful in a wider context for other difficult behaviours - it's worth remembering that you didn't cause this, and you can't control his behaviour, and you can't fix it on your own.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Mon 04-Nov-13 11:24:43

OP, you give such good advice on other threads. It's a great shame you don't seem able to accept it for your own self sad

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 04-Nov-13 11:41:57

Is he doing enough to make you happy OP? He seems to have perfected the 'make DW feel guilty about what I've done' trick - whether or not he was ever seriously pursuing OW, he knew you were unhappy about him devoting so much time to her. He wallowed in his EA and in refusing to break contact with her, he really threatened this marriage.

Now you have a hollow victory - he is under the same roof - he mopes about being a martyr while you're scared to upset him.

You say, "He is all about HIM". I'm afraid this is the truth. Once upon a time things were good. Your prince has turned into a frog.

captainmummy Mon 04-Nov-13 13:51:02

Great post Tessa.
Printedword - quite right, he is not treating OP as an equal partner in this relationship; i wonder if he ever did. Faulk - yes you have may 'saved' your relationship, in that it is still going, but it is broken, can't you see that? He doesn't respect you, not as an equal partner, he just wants you to STFU so he can carry on with his life, whilst you do the kids/house/cooking etc, to make his life as smooth as it can be whilst he is doing whatever he likes, with whomever. He doesn't see any need to go to counselling, or to stop the lessons, or to change his behaviour at all. Why should he? Why on earth would he change it, when it's lovely as it is, thanks! He knows that you can/will do nothing - there is no incentive for him to change anything. (And he's got you now really scared to raise any issues - he can accuse you of talking like a mum/child/angry or your face is doing something he doesn't like, or ... so you say nothing. That suits him fine)

And i instantly thought - he has a new PAYG phone. As soon as I saw that he is 'tired' and goes to bed early (avoiding you) - yep, he has a new phone.

MollyWhuppie Mon 04-Nov-13 15:34:06

He has a secret phone and is texting her when he goes to bed early. No amount of talking is going to stop him treating you like this.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Mon 04-Nov-13 16:49:29

Charlotte - thank you. I've just downloaded it and will read asap. Yes, it occurred to me too that he has a new phone, and I have searched high and low for it. IF it exists. I guess he could be keeping it in his underpants - haven't visited there for a while.

lovetheprintedword Mon 04-Nov-13 17:09:39

Could you try going to bed at the same time as him for a week or two? When he says 'I think I'll turn in' or whatever at 9ish say 'Oh yes, me too' and go with him.

Then you can a) stop him from doing whatever he's doing in bed (presumably texting her) - you'll see his frustration at being thwarted and his inability to actually sleep at that time of night every day and know something is going on, and b) seeing as he's not sleeping and you're together, you can talk!

I'd also wait until he's asleep and then find the phone. Under his pillow probably or under the mattress at his side, to be removed in the morning. Or I'd sneak up and secretly spy on him/burst in on him in bed. But that's just me.

cosydressinggown Mon 04-Nov-13 17:11:55

OP - does it not rip you up inside every week that he goes there for that 'music lesson'? Knowing that she knows you are unhappy with it, but that he has chosen what she wants over what you want? Knowing that they probably chat (and who knows what else) in that time?

This is the crux of the thing as far as I can see. Every single week he shits on your relationship and your feelings, in favour of her. How can you bear it and talk about fixing things when this is what he is doing???

captainmummy Mon 04-Nov-13 19:59:39

Oh Faulk - this thread is going exactly the same as the others; 'chuck him out', 'show him what he is losing', 'is it hard for you to see him going to her every week?'...

I wonder why that is?

Is it because nothing has actually changed? You may have a bit more insight, due to reading the right books, but you have not done anything. Nothing will change, until you change it. Show him you mean business.

Fairenuff Mon 04-Nov-13 22:50:41

how do you get your DP to talk

Hi Faulk - there is only one way to get him to talk to you.

This is the hardest thing to understand. If you want a relationship with him, you have to leave him.

Only then will he notice you.

Can you understand this. The way to save your relationship is to leave it.

Everything else will fall into place. If he wants to be with you he will come after you. He will want to talk, he will want to change, he will want to listen to you and make you happy.

But as long as you stay with him, none of that can happen.

Onefewernow Mon 04-Nov-13 23:31:45

Hi there again.

You have spoken about how you think he feels a couple of times, but I was wondering how YOU feel?

I think you are angry. My counsellor helped me to see it is healthy to be angry and to express anger. The issue is how- so shouting isn't good and anyway doesn't work.

I think he is avoiding you, and you are in a bit of a cat and mouse situation. I t seems to me you are very unhappy.

Also, I notice that he does that old line " I never do anything right", or equivalent . This is a scam, and it is passive aggressive. He thinks he is doing plenty right. And at the same time he is diverting you to feel sorry for him. And to STFU.

Onefewernow Mon 04-Nov-13 23:33:53

What do you want, Inthedusk?

Can you say what you want to happen?

MistAllChuckingFrighty Wed 06-Nov-13 18:54:14

OP, you jump back in to your thread(s) and jump right back out again without taking any of the advice on board nor telling us any of your true feelings about the situation

Then a few weeks later you do it again, then do the disappearing act

What is it you want ? (genuine question)

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace Wed 06-Nov-13 21:17:43

Hopefully the OP is busy giggling guiltily at that little book she downloaded.

intheduskwiththelightbehindher Thu 07-Nov-13 20:20:34

The book was funny (reminded me of an ex from about 30 yrs ago!)
Sorry not to update regularly - difficult to get alone time on the pc. I tried answering what I want earlier today, but my phone was playing up and my long reply never got posted.
I want this all to be over, I want to be happy again, I want to trust and respect dp again and to feel loving towards him, because I'm very ambivalent atm. We had a lovely evening on Monday, after I said we needed some 'us' time, we sat together, his arms around me, he apologised for all the 'early nights' and that he didn't mean me to feel neglected. This was lovely but now I feel vulnerable and hurt again because I allowed myself to feel something. * mistall* I'm sorry if my way of dealing with this isn't to your liking - I hope I've answered your question.

Fairenuff Thu 07-Nov-13 20:47:23

It's just so hard for posters to understand your logic Faulk. A lovely Monday, wrapped up in his arms, him promising not to neglect you. Then Tuesday he goes to his weekly meeting with the ow.

How can you reconcile yourself to this?

All you want is for him not to see her. That is all you've asked for and all you've ever wanted.

I don't understand you Faulk, I honestly cannot see how you can tolerate this situation and let it continue like this indefinitely.

MistAllChuckingFrighty Thu 07-Nov-13 20:51:38

I am similarly discombobulated sad

itsmeisntit Thu 07-Nov-13 20:53:04

Bet he thinks he is the dogs bollocks--2 females fawning over him.

What a player- what a twat. I find it hard to believe you could sit all cosied up to him knowing that he would be with the OW the next day.

He must be some catch for you to hang on so desperately. A man who is not prepared to put id DP first sad

CharlotteCollinsinherownplace Thu 07-Nov-13 21:34:35

I think your reply is very understandable. You want to be back at a place before all this happened, when everything was simpler.

Unfortunately, you need your P's co-operation to get any closer to what you want. At the moment you are treading water, wishing what's real wasn't, and waiting for him to act.

If you were to stand up for yourself, tell him you will not tolerate this situation - and then act on that, then you would find out if there is any hope of salvaging your relationship, by how your P responds.

But the longer you sit and wait for life to happen around you, the longer P will have to get comfortable with the status quo - and the worse the prospect for your relationship is.

captainmummy Fri 08-Nov-13 08:42:59

Charlottecollins is right, faulk. You have been told time and time again that the only way to get some respect (from him; for yourself) is to get him to realise what he is throwing away. You haven't done that, for various reasons, but the point is still valid. Nothing will go forward (and will never go back) until he stops doing the one thing that is tearing you apart - Stop Seeing Her. I know you think he is not seeing her - but even if he is not, he is still not investing in your relationship. He is either mooning after her (if she is unattainable) or Still Seeing Her.

You want to trust and respect him again - you will never trust or respect him, until you know that he has chosen you. And the only way to do that, is to get him to choose; chuck him out and tell him not to come back unless he a)wants to, b) is prepared to go NC with OW AND c) prepared to give your relationship a lot, lot more.

Onefewernow Fri 08-Nov-13 08:58:42

Ok, Faulk, that's what you want. It's what most of us want when first faced with infidelity.

You want it never to have happened. But it has. And the strategy you have been trying since summer isn't working for you, from what you have said.

Also, your H has a bit if a nerve blowing hot and cold on you.

What extra steps or boundaries are you prepared to take?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 08-Nov-13 14:45:41

Earlier you were listing possible reasons for him being out of sorts, eg depression; SAD; mid life crisis.

If things seem to be improving, good. If you have his full attention, if he exerts himself to ask how you are, how your day was, what you'd like to do, good. If he makes a spontaneous gesture of affection before you do, good.

If you find yourself in a room with him and he's physically there but his eyes aren't showing any spark of interest, ask yourself what or whom he's thinking of. If you can't debate that episode with him for fear of him flouncing off or accusing you of going on about it, that's not really helpful. If you catch your breath any time he's late or his phone is not working, your peace of mind is AWOL. You say you love him, can you cope with that quiet dread of waiting for the axe to fall.

lolaisafuckertoo Fri 08-Nov-13 15:36:06

you know what I did? I spoke with no passion or inflection in my voice and such a low tone that he had to lean in to hear me. Just like he does. He mumbles, says "you what"? ALOT. So I used the precise tactics on him. When he said "you what?" I didn't repeat myself. I made myself sound as though I was discussing the price of bread. He was ery taken aback as he didn't retreat to his defensive position of silence and you have backed me into a corner.
Think I am to eloquent, verbally adept?
THen I shall say this in the simplest words I have available to me. He is an intelligent man but tends to choose when to be that.
What is there to "talk" about? YOu have discussed it all, what is happening now is simply raking over the remains. He has no idea what he is feeling so do not do it for him nor presume there is anything available there. The more you hunt for it, the more fog you are trying to herd. don't do this to yourself anymore.

tessa6 Fri 08-Nov-13 16:21:21

There are countless examples of people who feel the same and do the same as the OP when it comes to infidelity. Her actions are, I'm afraid, totally understandable and common. So common in fact that I'm starting to become convinced that there is a natural, sorry journey to these things (sometimes referred to more negatively as 'the script'). you can tell people all you want, but in the end THEY have to reach the end of THEIR tether before it changes. loss is too huge and fearful.

OP, you will keep having alternating 'fine' times and 'bad' times until you choose to put up with his continued relationship and repress all that does to you (which is the road you are on now). Or you insist he leave or leave yourself. That's all there is to it really. Without any sort of actual, lived consequence (outside of arguments and upset) no one really changes their ways. And especially not the narcissistic, dominant taking types that cheaters often are.

Deal with it how you like. And feel free to come back for support. But that will never change I'm afraid.

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