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Camming/using Skype to watch porn

(111 Posts)
babyotter Wed 30-Oct-13 20:13:02

Hello all,

Just got home from work and found Skype open on my DP's ipad (a message popped up onto the screen - I wasn't snooping). Thought it was a bit odd as I've never seen him use it. He was out (picking up our 15mo DS from nursery) so I had a look to see who was messaging. It was a girl's name, and one I didn't recognise, so I looked further...

You can probably guess that I found a load of contacts to random girls with pretty revealing member photos. Being a bit naive I thought maybe it was some sort of spam, but having looked through the chat history it is much more than that...

It would seem that every Thursday since I've been back at work (about 3 months and he does the childcare on that day), at about the time that our little boy is having a nap (around 1pm), he is on Skype having a bit of sex talk and 'camming'. He's changed his name, but the chat reveals it is him (location, age, job - he's a GP, that he is in a relationship but hasn't had sex in a while). I can't see what he's paid for, but is pretty obvious that he's been watching stuff from the chat.

As it is, we've not had sex for about 5 months. I am nearly seven months pregnant, and just haven't been feeling it (which I don't think it hugely unusual or unreasonable). We both go to bed very tired and he's always asleep within minutes, so it's not as if he has been rebuffed recently. I'd previously talked to him about my lack of sex drive and checked that he wasn't feeling neglected... he denied he was.

Anyway, I just don't know what to think. I know he has looked at porn in the past (I'd found on his laptop years ago and it pre-dated our relationship), and if it had just been a case of porn then I would have felt disappointed, but I could have come to terms with it. This just feels so much more like cheating. He's had one-to-one interactive contact with another woman. He knows my feelings about these things as my Dad did a similar thing to my Mum over 15 years ago (was a bit of a pioneer in internet cheating), and I didn't speak to him for years (there was more to it than that, but still, he should know better).

Sorry this is so long. Just have so many thoughts buzzing round my head. Apart from this he really is the most caring/considerate/loving partner and a wonderful father. He's home from work now and wants to know why I am quiet and withdrawn.

Any ideas how I should deal with this? Feel like I have lost so much trust and respect for him sad

Dahlen Wed 30-Oct-13 20:23:22

I'm sorry. sad You really don't need this at 7 months pregnant.

I'm not surprised you've lost trust and respect for him. It IS a form of cheating - it's sexual interaction with a living person. The fact that the person is probably being paid for it and putting on a persona makes it worse, rather than better. I'd say it's akin to a serious emotional affair.

For me, the fact that it involves sexual exploitation of other women would be a deal-breaker and I'd leave. But I'm not you and that isn't your line in the sand or else you wouldn't have moved in with him and got pregnant after you discovered him using porn previously. Therefore, if you want to get past this, you have to treat it as an emotional affair and decide if that's your deal-breaker. If it's not, the onus is on him to earn back your trust and respect.

Hope you get through this. flowers

babyotter Wed 30-Oct-13 20:31:24

Thanks Dahlen. I'd never have expected him to have done something like this, I've only really heard of it from watching a TV programme about it (and the girls who do it who can make rather a lot of money).

I'm just not sure how much of a jump it is from watching porn, I mean in his mind will he have boxed it up as about the same? Or is it the next step up on a continuum that leads to more?

Dahlen Wed 30-Oct-13 20:39:32

It's a step up IMO. If you were going to compare it to something innocuous, I'd compare talking to someone on camera instead of just viewing normal porn as the same distinction between buying something off the peg and having a suit custom-made for you.

I don't think it would take more than five minutes thought about it for most people to reach the same conclusion - the exception being if you are trying to minimise it or justify it. I've no doubt that your DP will, when tackled, claim that because it's someone doing it for money on a screen it's not the same as a real affair. And it isn't, but that doesn't make it in any way better, either. At least with a real affair the unfaithful person can pretend that their head was turned by a special someone, whereas your DP has actively gone seeking this out.

I really am sorry. Do you have a good support network you can lean on while you process this and decide what you want to do?

babyotter Wed 30-Oct-13 20:57:02

It's just so embarrassing, and I feel ashamed. We've not long lived in this area (15 months), and I've made some great friends, but I'm not sure I want them to know what my seemingly amazing DP has been up to. I'll probably talk to one of them, but is going to be hard.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to say something to him imminently, he's home alone again tomorrow and I couldn't work imaging what he might be up to.

I think when I do confront him he will be hugely apologetic and ashamed of himself. I just want to pretend I hadn't found it and continue along in my smug happiness of how wonderful our life was here with our new (and growing) little family.

Thanks again for your support.

Dahlen Wed 30-Oct-13 21:03:50

You've done nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about.

Your DP has but if he's an otherwise decent man he's not beyond redemption. That's the case regardless of whether or not you decide to forgive this or end things.

You're pregnant and vulnerable. You don't have to make a decision about anything until you're ready. The only thing you need to promise yourself is that if your DP starts trying to lay the blame for his actions on you, you won't accept that as he made a choice to seek this out.

If he's genuinely remorseful and you want to work through this, I'd really recommend you both looking into the ethical arguments surrounding porn and the online sex industry, both from an exploitation perspective and from a relationship perspective. It's easy to find out about this online. Treat it as an academic exercise - something which should come naturally to your GP DP. He may decide he still wants to look at porn at the end of it, but you'll both have a much clearer idea about what is acceptable in your relationship, why, and what you stand to lose if you don't respect each other's boundaries.

For now though just take care of yourself and your baby. Everything else can wait.

Vivacia Wed 30-Oct-13 21:17:01

I think I would tell him that I knew, and my head was a mess. I needed time to come to terms with my thoughts and feelings. And I'd ask him to pack a bag for when I got back from work tomorrow.

Twinklestein Wed 30-Oct-13 21:17:32

Porn is one thing, but camming is another - a more serious offence.

Is he camming himself? Or is he just watching women?

Twinklestein Wed 30-Oct-13 21:28:59

He's being incredibly naïve listing his real job, age & location...

And, if he's been camming himself, that footage could end up anywhere...

HollaAtMeBaby Wed 30-Oct-13 21:48:21

Sorry but I think this is much worse than porn. It's interactive and the women are "real". All he has to do is search for women in your area (could you see any locations on the profiles you looked at?) and boom - next step is going to one of their houses and paying for sex. Please be very careful.

str8tothepoint Thu 31-Oct-13 05:41:33

Hmm I use to do this with OW DP as we live an hour away we would Skype each other before she got home from work. It is a big buzz doing it but I'm single with no kids. It's easy way to pass the time, think you should just ask him what it's about before working yourself up especially as your not far from birth. It is probably just harmless

MistressDeeCee Thu 31-Oct-13 06:56:36

This is a difficult one.Your DP has done wrong but I don't feel because he's getting his thrills looking/chatting to women via webcam, it means he's going to have sex.& he isn't looking for an intimate long term relationship with these women. Whilst its wrong, it would be somehow worse if it were 1 woman - 'Miss Ordinary' if you like - & he was sharing thoughts, hopes, emotions etc with her.

I do think your relationship could be redeemed. Its an unfortunate fact of life that yes, some men are into sex lines, camming etc whether they have partners or not and are able to be quite detached about it.

Talk to him let him know what you found and exactly how you feel about it; it seems obvious he's overstepped boundaries and made you unhappy and he needs to be made very aware of that. I hope you can sort things out together, especially as you'll have a beautiful new addition to your family soon. Good luck.

FatherJake Thu 31-Oct-13 07:07:01

Agree with the last post. To take a leap that he is going to jump from this to going off to pay for sechs is quite outrageous. When you think about it there is almost no difference between watching a p0rn film on the internet and having what is I imagine a p0rn actress doing the same things on the same screen. I very much doubt it is two way.

You have basically embarrassingly caught him doing what many men are doing at a time when they don't want to pester their wives for secs. Assuming there's nothing else sinister let it go and enjoy the new baby.

FatherJake Thu 31-Oct-13 07:16:36

And as for this being akin to an emotional affair as per one of the comments, that is simply preposterous and shows no understanding of how the male mind works.

Mapleissweet Thu 31-Oct-13 07:28:54

His wife is pregnant, feeling crap and in a vulnerable place. Her dh thinks it's acceptable to webcam other women while she works. Not nice at all. Very disrespectful, shallow, selfish and deceitful. If it's acceptable, why hide it?

Wanking over a woman is performing for him exclusively is very very low indeed. Poor op.

This would be a massive turn off for me. I couldn't respect my dh if he did this.

Vivacia Thu 31-Oct-13 07:30:22

Its an unfortunate fact of life that...

Yes, there are quite a few unfortunate facts of life. Doesn't mean that they need to be expected, accepted or tolerated.

FatherJake let me help you with that one, it's "sex".

This isn't normal behaviour. It's not normal to pay for sexual services. It's not normal to pay for sexual services when in a relationship. It's not normal to pay for sexual services during your son's nap time.

FatherJake Thu 31-Oct-13 08:13:25

Mapleissweet and Vivacia - paying for secsual services presumably includes paying for p0rn or buying a p0rn dvd? There is no difference here. And what possible relevance is it that the woman is performing exclusively - which presumably is some people's fantasy when they're watching normal p0rn anyway? This is not some sort of relationship or cheating, this is just p0rn.

And as for 'if it's acceptable why hide it?' Well that is ridiculous - many people do not broadcast their p0rn watching to their partner.

If the OP has a problem with p0rn then that is one thing. But if the argument is that this is somehow worse or more deceitful then IMO you are wrong.

Mapleissweet Thu 31-Oct-13 09:33:41

It is entirely different to porn (which in any event I don't agree with anyway). The point is his wife is pregnant and working, while he wanks to a young girl doing sex acts fir him while his son naps.

Who can respect someone who has such insensitivity and inappropriate behaviour for a married man. Why can't he control himself?

Mapleissweet Thu 31-Oct-13 09:44:21

It is entirely different to porn (which in any event I don't agree with anyway). The point is his wife is pregnant and working, while he wanks to a young girl doing sex acts fir him while his son naps.

Who can respect someone who has such insensitivity and inappropriate behaviour for a married man. Why can't he control himself?

Andy1964 Thu 31-Oct-13 09:58:13

First off, none of this is your fault. Stop feeling ashamed. No one, other than the two of you need feel ashamed.
Secondly, you don't always have to pay. On some sites people just broadcast themselves for the kick.

Everyone is right, this is a step up from looking at porn and the issue needs to be addressed but I do get it (probably get beateed up on here for this point of view)
He needs some release and he feels he can't approach you for it so he is seeking it elsewhere. I very much doubt his intentions are anything other than 'getting off' online so I would not worry about him wandering for real.
It's not the right way about dealing with things though and you both need to confront it.
Babe, it won't be an easy conversation and I don't envy you but I think you need to have it. Your going to have to bring it up as he, for obvious reasons won't.
My best advice, for real life, your going to nave to just blurt it out as I don't think there is going to be any easy way of saying things.

We all have to face up to errors that we make in life as will your DP, he will realise what a cock he looks and will be beside himself for letting you down.

Most of all, YOU will be fine. Get it out in the open, sort it out and move on with your new family.

Really easy for me to say, hard for you to deal with, good luck

Twinklestein Thu 31-Oct-13 11:33:41

It's not entirely clear from the OP whether he has just been watching cam girls or if he's been on a sex site doing interactive camming... 'pretty revealing member photos' suggests the latter..

BelaLugosisShed Thu 31-Oct-13 11:47:25

"He needs some release" hmm

There's a huge difference between getting a release from simple and effective masturbation and interacting sexually (or is it secsually? hmm ) with other people online.
It's no different to him inviting someone to the house so they can masturbate in front of each other - it's infidelity to anyone in a monogamous relationship and completely unacceptable.

Mapleissweet Thu 31-Oct-13 11:51:04

He's basically saying my needs come first regardless of anything else.

Needs a "release"?

Oh FFS that one again?

I'm sure that he is quite capable of understanding his wife is 7 months pregnant, looking after a toddler and working and quite possibly not up for sex.
I'm sure if he is so desperate for this "release" whilst his child is having an afternoon nap, there are other ways of doing it, rather than talking to, and watching/interacting with someone on the Internet.

And, actually it's not a fact of life.

I'm pretty damn sure that my DH did not seek out actual people on Skype to perform sex acts to get him off when I was pregnant with ds2 and we didnt have sex for months.

Jan45 Thu 31-Oct-13 12:18:16

He needs a release??? Don't we all but we don't sign up to webcam sites and have sexual chat and activity with strangers!

I'm afraid he will be paying for their services, it doesn't come free and I would definitely view it as a form of cheating, what else could you call it, it's not innocent friendly chatting is it.

The amount of stories you hear about this kind of thing when women are pregnant astounds me and it just goes to show the men are complete creeps to do such a horrible thing to their partner at such a precious time of life.

I'd be wondering what else he's up to tbh, I certainly wouldn't trust him again, you have to let him know this is not acceptable.

Andy1964 Thu 31-Oct-13 12:19:05

Woah!!!!!

STOP!!!!

Read my post correctly.

'He needs some release and he feels he can't approach you for it so he is seeking it elsewhere'

I then went on to say

"It's not the right way about dealing with things though and you both need to confront it."

In no way do I condone his actions, I am merely trying to put forward a reason for his actions which no one else has done yet.

Pumpkinupthejam Thu 31-Oct-13 18:41:58

So you agree Andy the reason for his behaviour is that he believes he's entitled to interact sexually with another woman while his pregnant DP is out of the house?

DownstairsMixUp Thu 31-Oct-13 18:47:55

I'll probably get shot down but I'd be on the verge of leaving him if he didn't see what he was doing was REALLY wrong. Sorry OP, I don't personally agree with porn either but PAYING someone to "get his release" hmm is a deal breaker for me.

Juliaparker25 Thu 31-Oct-13 18:56:23

DTB

festered Thu 31-Oct-13 19:24:07

sad
I'm so so sorry OP. This is definitely worse than watching porn, It's more expensive for a reason. It's interactive-It's a 'personal' show.

I will say that I don't think it necessarily means he's looking to have sex with someone , because he's buying camshows.
I do webcam work. I know a lot of girls who do webcam work-they generally are not escorts as well and the general consensus is we would never meet somebody in real life, who had bought a show.

However, It's bad enough as it is-that he's done this, regardless of whether he'd go further with it given the opportunity or not.

You're pregnant with his child, which makes his behaviour worse IMO but even if you weren't, It's a huge betrayal.
In your situation, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me but it would definitely be a 'I'm moving out to stay at insert friend/family member's and I will be back when I know if I can forgive you or not.
This is not a minor thing. But I think in an otherwise good relationship, it can be worked through.

babyotter Thu 31-Oct-13 19:57:33

Thanks everyone. I was finding it difficult to talk to him so I messaged him my original posting here, with the annotation being, 'read this, I don't know what to say, obviously this is about you' (that was last night).

He broke down and admitted everything (well, he could hardly deny it), but said he had always cut off the chat before anyone appeared as he was so ashamed at what he was doing. I'm not sure that makes it any better, as I'm sure if I hadn't found out, it would have led to that eventually. But at least it rids me of that imagery in my head.

What troubles me is that despite the fact that he was feeling guilty and didn't actually watch any cams (supposedly), he kept going back at practically every opportunity. I've checked his paypal and there aren't any charges so it doesn't look like he has paid for anything.

I've said no more porn, ever (which is where this has stemmed from - pop ups on porn websites). And I want him to get in touch with a psychosexual counsellor. Not sure if it will be any use, but he can't explain why he kept going back week after week, even when it was making him feel so guilty (obviously not guilty enough though).

I need him to try and have mechanisms in place so that in a few years (?) time, when the guilt has worn off and he's a bit bored, he doesn't think he'll have another little look and hide his tracks better. Or do worse.

I'm still really hurting and it's going to take a long time before I can trust him. I don't think this will ever completely go away, I'll always have a little niggly worry in my mind when he is home alone, or away without me. But the little niggly worry or loss of trust is not overwhelming enough to make me want to leave. We need to keep our little family together, as despite this it is wonderful being parents together and I am still very excited about being a new mum again in Jan.

Again, thanks everyone for your support.

Mapleissweet Thu 31-Oct-13 20:04:38

I understand op. hope you're ok and that your dh realises how incredibly lucky he us to still have you as his dw.
He needs to pull out all the stops to make it up to you and really think about why he would feel it was actors me to behave so poorly.
How long had it been going on for?

JoinYourPlayfuckers Thu 31-Oct-13 20:06:22

"but said he had always cut off the chat before anyone appeared as he was so ashamed at what he was doing."

That is a lie.

YesterdayI Thu 31-Oct-13 20:15:22

What a sad thread. I feel so sorry for you OP. I would be totally gutted.
You might want yo consider couples counselling so that you can both work out how you are going to deal with this.
I would be worried that I would never be able to forgive and that I would be angry at him forever more.

He is was an idiot to list his age/location/job! I can't believe he would be so stupid.

I know you should be able to trust him but I would put measures in place so that he is unable to watch any porn at home again. I would get a IT specialist in if need be. I know this can't stop him when he is out the house/ not on his own mobile etc but it won't do any harm either.

Vivacia Thu 31-Oct-13 20:23:46

it's going to take a long time before I can trust him. I don't think this will ever completely go away, I'll always have a little niggly worry in my mind when he is home alone, or away without me.

I would tell him this, but it's his problem not yours. Ask him what he suggests.

Handbagsonnhold Thu 31-Oct-13 20:29:02

Sorry you have this to deal with Op ....I have had a similar experience in the past. I personally have no problem with oh watching the odd bit of porn ....but I find anything over the net in the way of relationship forming (be it very losely) ie chatting/webcams a totally different league. Awful for you that he was doing this during ds napping times! I hope you can sort this and learn to trust him again. Sometimes when these habits get discovered they just push the habit further under stones. I hope he can be open with you.

Thinking of you and good luck x

AnandaTimeIn Thu 31-Oct-13 22:12:22

He's a GP?

God love us all....

Glad he's not mine <sorry OP>

Andy1964 Fri 01-Nov-13 09:21:24

I'm glad you you have found a way to broach the subject with him. It can't have been easy for you and you should be proud of yourself.
Now it's out in the open I hope you can both talk about it;

His reasons
What he got out of it
How you feel about his actions
How you feel about leaving him alone
How he thinks he is going to avoid it in the future.

All these any many more things now need to be spoken about openly between the two of you, you both need to get a handle on why this has happened.
At least you have take the first step on what may be a long road to recovery.

I'd like to take this opportunity to reply to Pumpkinupthejam;

"So you agree Andy the reason for his behaviour is that he believes he's entitled to interact sexually with another woman while his pregnant DP is out of the house?"

I said in NO WAY do I condone his behaviour. He IS NOT entitled to interract with another person sexually.

I do understand that he MAY have become frustrated. We all know that having a young family and one on the way can have an adverse affect on couples libido. It's a hard time for most couples, period, regardless of anything else.
His frustration SHOULD have been discussed with his wife. Talking about sex is never easy in a relationship and even more so when you are bringing up and creating a new family so I can understand how this happened but;

HE WENT ABOUT HIS FRUSTRATIONS IN THE WRONG WAY. WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG, HURTFULL AND DISRESPECTFUL.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that.

BOOsterseat Fri 01-Nov-13 09:36:00

Talking about sex is never easy in a relationship and even more so when you are bringing up and creating a new family so I can understand how this happened but;

No it isn't, not in most adult relationships. I don't find it difficult to talk about sex, probably because I have nothing to hide.

Babyotter Keep communicating, don't bottle up how you feel as you will build resentment that you might never recover from.

If he goes out of his way to reassure you and make positive, productive steps to understand how much this has hurt you, it will go a hell of a long way to repair the damage he has done to your relationship.

Talking about sex in a relationship is only awkward if the both parties aren't being completely honest about what they want/need. You asked him and he said he was satisfied,he lied. I would have a bigger problem with the lies than the porn despite both being deal breakers for me.

Jan45 Fri 01-Nov-13 11:17:07

I don't believe him either about cutting the chat or not paying for it - regardless of the dirty details, he's cheated on you, he can't be trusted and is a sneak - it's now up to him to reverse that description of himself - and will be up to you if you can believe he can, will or indeed if you can ever trust him again but remember, this is up to him to change, not you, no amount of frustration or looking for a `release` justifies doing this kind of thing, I would seriously be wondering what else he is capable of, either in the past or the future.

Good luck, I hope you work it out with him.

PottedPlant Fri 01-Nov-13 11:22:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

festered Fri 01-Nov-13 12:14:15

OP paypal don't accept adult transactions so while some webcam girls do use paypal (risking getting their account shut down)it is more likely that if he HAS paid a webcam girl, he has used some other method. ..I don't mean he's definitely lying about not having watched a cam, I just mean if he has paid it probably wouldn't be paypal.
Webcam girls usually ask for payment upfront (to avoid customers not paying)!xx

Pumpkinupthejam Fri 01-Nov-13 19:22:41

I dont find talking about sex in a relationship difficult either.

If I was frustrated I would say so and expect to be listened to. Same for a partner.

However hes not talking about it and has been interacting with other women on line.

I don't think this is about frustration at all. Simple frustration would have led either to him having a wank or having a conversation with OP.

I'm afraid I think he did it simply because he got a big kick out of doing it, and waited until his DP was out working because he knew perfectly well she wouldn't find it acceptable.

We are talking about character here, not circumstance.

Shapechanger Fri 01-Nov-13 19:57:33

He's a GP?
God love us all....
Glad he's not mine <sorry OP>

WTF? hmm

Vivacia Fri 01-Nov-13 20:34:06

Yeah, I thought that was a particularly unhelpful post.

babyotter Fri 01-Nov-13 21:03:58

Yep, it was a lie. Checked his bank account. He's just admitted he's been doing it for years and years.

Handbagsonnhold Fri 01-Nov-13 21:11:48

Op so sorry.... You really don't need this on your plate. Thinking of you x

Mapleissweet Fri 01-Nov-13 21:15:40

What are you going to do?
He has been camming for years?
Stay strong.

Mapleissweet Fri 01-Nov-13 21:18:14

What did it come up as on his bank account?

babyotter Fri 01-Nov-13 21:30:33

clickandbuy

Can't believe that he thought he could get away with extending the lie and not shred his bank statements. I'd even told him I was going to check. Can't look at his phone bills yet as all online, but feel I need to see those too.

I gave him so many opportunities to tell the truth, repeatedly said, 'so I've just happened to find out everything in one go... what else is there?'. He lied so convincingly, and was able to so quickly and on the spot.

Mapleissweet Fri 01-Nov-13 21:37:11

What us he going to do about it? What do you want?
Is he just watching or interacting back?

5madthings Fri 01-Nov-13 21:37:18

Sorry op, this is beyond crap, would be a deal breaker for me.

I don't have any wise words but there will be plenty of help and support for you on here.

BOOsterseat Fri 01-Nov-13 21:40:28

Im sorry babyotter full disclosure never seems to happen 1st time round.

Does he know you have seen the statements?

babyotter Fri 01-Nov-13 21:56:12

Yep, he knows. Apparently only watches, apparently new person every time.

He says he wants to stop. He says he will get help to stop. I'm going to have to give him a chance, but after having seen my Dad do this to my Mum (and then move on to serial adultery, whilst she pretended she didn't know), there's no way I'd put up with anything else/any lapses. If we hadn't had children my stance could have been different.

Is going to be so hard. Am numb and shocked at the moment. Thank you for taking time to give me words of support. I haven't spoken to anyone about it in real life, not sure I will, so this has been such an outlet.

Shapechanger Fri 01-Nov-13 21:56:21

So sorry. Problem when you've seen someone lie with alacrity is that it's hard to ever trust them again. You have to choose to trust them again because it is against reason.

Do you think you know it all yet?

BOOsterseat Fri 01-Nov-13 22:05:19

Can you ask him to leave for a period of time so you can get some head space? Or is it feasible for you to go away for a weekend with friends you trust to let off some steam?

I'm so sorry you're going through this, I really am.

What is he expecting? Or he is moping around feeling sorry for himself?

mcmoonfucker Fri 01-Nov-13 22:07:01

Soul destroying stuff otter.
It is such a difficult thing to know you didn't deserve the truth.....the thing that obliterates trust.
We trust people unless they do something to harm us, and sometimes just one single action can permanently break trust.
Your DH has really broken your trust in him by lying and engaging in a secret life.
Please don't think you have to stay for the children. They can be fine if you are co-parenting.
The question is, will you be fine being married to someone, being intimate and open with someone who has breached your trust so badly?

Pumpkinupthejam Fri 01-Nov-13 22:42:32

Very sorry OP.

Why does he feel he needs "help" to stop?

For most people, the fact that they have done something to hurt a partner who they love and cherish is enough of a disincentive to ever repeat it.

Shapechanger Fri 01-Nov-13 22:47:05

For most people, the fact that they have done something to hurt a partner who they love and cherish is enough of a disincentive to ever repeat it.

This is not true at all, unfortunately; people are much more complex than that.

babyotter Fri 01-Nov-13 23:38:49

I think he needs help. This behaviour is so incongruous with his normal day to day persona. He is so well-respected and liked by everyone; I'd him up on a pedestal for being such a wonderful partner and Dad. I had been so happy with our relationship and family, probably far too smug.

He's always had a side of him that was able to cut off emotionally, but I found it a strength which balanced my somewhat over-emotional and introspective self. Now I see he has used it to compartmentalise what he has been doing and carry on as normal for years.

I hope we can arrange to go to a counsellor, for my sake as much as his. I want to see him taking the initiative in arranging it, which I don't think is asking for too much. I've also set up parental controls on all the computers and mobile devices.

I just want things to go back to how they were.

savemefromrickets Fri 01-Nov-13 23:57:21

I have no words of wisdom but just wanted to send you a big hug. I found out my xdp watched porn when I was pregnant and that hurt me enough - and I didn't find out until we were long separated. You must be hurting like hell and I'm sorry. X

Vivacia Sat 02-Nov-13 06:17:17

I'm so sorry to read the hurt in your words. This sounds so painful. I'd really want to see him making an effort to save his marriage, but I'm worried he won't, that he'll drag his feet, make excuses and complain. I believe it can be done if he wants it though.

BOOsterseat Sat 02-Nov-13 10:39:40

Babyotter, please don't parent him. Its not up to you to install and check up on parental controls, they are for parents not partners.

You will do yourself no favours by trying to "manage" this, it won't give you any confidence in him in the long run.

Handbagsonnhold Sat 02-Nov-13 11:09:29

Op is he aware yet you have put these parental controls on the devices you are aware of? In some cases this can just push the habit under stones....having been through a similar situation in the past I found it was the lying which I couldn't deal with and we went through some counselling. It sounds as if you are really quite shocked at what he has been capable of and lots of talking required. Good luck x

TheGonnagle Sat 02-Nov-13 12:43:52

I'm with the others on the parental controls. I have been though something (vaguely) similar, and I absolutely refused to take responsibility for any of it. My partner found and attended counselling, joined an internet support group for people battling porn addiction and completely faced up to his actions. I refused the online controls on the understanding that he now knows explicitly this is a deal breaker for me. No-one can hide their actions forever, and if it ever happens again we are finished. He knows this and if it is not enough of an incentive then so be it.
I know how much you are hurting. That when you look at him you can't help but wonder what else he is hiding. And that horrible numb feeling that is there whenever you relax your guard. It does get better, but he has to absolutely clear that this is it, and do all the work required to win back your trust and affection.
Sending you a massive hug and bucketloads of empathy x

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 02-Nov-13 13:24:47

"Apparently only watches, apparently new person every time. "

You know you can't believe a single word he says now.

He lied to your face over and over when you confronted him, until you had solid proof.

So now you know the kind of man he really is - a dishonest one who will lie through his teeth you if it serves his purposes.

You would do well not to believe anything he says about this and presume there is plenty more you don't know about.

It seems that you don't actually know him all that well.

"I just want things to go back to how they were."

How they were is that he's had a secret, separate sex life that (at the very least) comprised regular live performances by women other than you.

You can't really want to go back to that?

This isn't a man who lost his way.

This is who this guy is.

He likes buying services from women and he will always try to hide it from you.

You are part of his "good guy" image - the nice wife who has no idea who he really is.

ImperialFucker Sat 02-Nov-13 13:48:38

I agree that this is who he is and I think no amount of counselling will change that. I don't think he thinks he's doing anything wrong.

The problem is of course that you can access this stuff from anywhere at any time and it's not your job to be vigilant. Who could have a sexual relationship with someone who needs parental controls?

He seems very, very naïve in giving his details like that. Is he otherwise gullible?

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 17:27:18

He's always had a side of him that was able to cut off emotionally

He's a doctor and IME this isn't uncommon. It's kind of driven into them during the training. Hence lots of doctors have this kind of split persona where they have some dysfunctional secret life, whether it is drinking, drug-taking or some other kind of addiction. It's a stressful job as well. And no, it doesn't make them crap at their jobs or unsuitable to be around small children or anything like that, just human.

I'm not making excuses for him, my sympathies are almost entirely with you, but I can still find a little for him based on what I said above.

A lot of people on here would have you LTB, irrespective of your young child and pregnancy and the fact that you have a good relationship in many ways and come across as loving him. In your shoes I would want to try to work things out and get him help. There used to be some organisation that helped doctors struggling with their own addictions, not sure if it exists any more.

He sounds mortified. Whether this is just at being found out or because he is genuinely contrite, no one on here knows.

I also agree with everyone on here that it's not your responsibility to police him. You have to deal with the root cause of the problem, not just keep him away from temptation.

Where are the male apologists now? Fatherwank and Andypandy?

The brilliant thing is op, you get over these blokes/husbands/fathers of your kids. Might take some time, but you do. You move on, you find a new partner or just relish and enjoy the freedom of being a single parent

These sad wankfest knobs however lose a lot: their friends and family get to know them as persistent porn users who wank frantically like sad schoolboys and webcam for sex, and either see their kids part-time or not at all (their choice)

And they have to pay to support their children (unless they do a runner,in which case their children are better off) while the woman they betrayed moves on to possibly find a new kinder love, or just the freedom of not having to stumble across payments for morally bankrupt sex - either real or virtual.

Fuck him right off to the back of yonder.

maypole why does she need to get her General Practitioner Husband help?

Is it her resonspibility to find the poor man help?

He needs help for keyboard tourettes maybe. hmm

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 18:22:12

Unlikely I work in the NHS and believe me doctors are crap at seeking help. I've no idea why... maybe some of it is anxiety about professional security. Lots of dysfunctional behaviours are seen as fitness to practice issues - you aren't supposed to do anything that might bring the profession into disrepute in the eyes of the public. This is a very loose idea open to interpretation. At it's harshest, it could extend to getting pissed and being insulting to someone at a party, having an affair or being a heavy porn user.

But doctors are human like anyone else, make cock ups and do unhealthy things. More than most IMO/E. My own theory is that some of this is because the training instils some suppression of emotions and there is also still a culture of bullying and having to toughen up. This suits some personalities better than others. I think it's one of the reasons why rates of alcoholism, suicide, marital infidelity etc are among the highest in any profession. But there's no science behind this, it's just my own tinpot theory based on what I have seen.

Certainly there is a weird dichotomy in that doctors are supposed to have an obligation to seek help for health and psychological problems but at the same time there is a culture of professional fear around doing so and a general disinclination towards demonstrating personal weakness.

He can't exactly consult himself, can he?

And I'm not saying it is her responsibility, no. I just think that it's not all that practical to just LTB when you have a small child and are seven months pregnant. I think this guy sounds like he needs help - who would deny that he has a problem? Compromising his marriage and family life like this - and so does the OP. They both need support if they can work through this together and though I am happily separated it's horrible breakiing up a family unit and if it can be avoided - not staying together for the sake of the kids, but trying to heal a marriage - it is the least worst option.

maypole and your point is? Doctors have stresses? Is that your point?

The OP writes this: It would seem that every Thursday since I've been back at work (about 3 months and he does the childcare on that day), at about the time that our little boy is having a nap (around 1pm), he is on Skype having a bit of sex talk and 'camming'. He's changed his name, but the chat reveals it is him (location, age, job - he's a GP, that he is in a relationship but hasn't had sex in a while). I can't see what he's paid for, but is pretty obvious that he's been watching stuff from the chat

The bloke is a fuckwit. No wonder he's stressed - if he was found out and appeared in the papers, no woman would want him as their GP. I don't buy the 'he needs help' bollocks.

Am just sorry for you that you do.

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 20:18:11

Nope. My point is that it's far, far too simplistic to just call someone a 'sad wankfest knob' and tell someone who is pregnant and has a small child, and who loves someone flawed (as we all are) who has fucked up to 'fuck him right off to the back of yonder'. Without even trying to work out what is going on with him, or to see if the relationship is worth saving.

You sound as if you are happily separated, as am I. But I would never be a cheerleader for separation as you seem to be... it's a heartbreaking thing and however well things can function afterwards (and they work pretty well for me, thanks very much) the family unit is gone forever. I hugely regret that and wish my marriage could have been restored to happiness rather than be, as I am, happily separated. I would rather still be happily married, with my kids with me the whole time and my husband not missing them either.

A family unit seems a hell of a lot to throw away as brutally, yet flippantly, as you advocate, unless there is a no-brainer like violence or child abuse. Beyond this, I suspect dealbreakers are different for different people.

No one is a perfect partner and it isn't up to anyone on here to project their own values of what insults to a relationship are surmountable onto someone else. Especially not a woman about to have a baby.

I've seen friends overcome difficulties in their marriages that seemed as painful as this and emerge happier and stronger. However OK things are, and however much I have got over my separation I would still rather be in their shoes than mine.

Just as a short footnote, re your tinpot theory: I would suggest that medicine attracts a lot of dysfunctional psychopaths.

Much like MPs.

God complexes.

They think they can do and get away with, anything. No doubt if they are so inclined, they can. This man is a heavy porn user. A GP should not be a heavy porn user. No decent man should be a heavy porn user let alone a man who is able to ask a woman to lift her shirt to examine her breasts for signs of cancer.

It makes me rather see red that you are able to make such excuses for professions that need a damn sight more rigorous selection processes than currently exist.

But the world is still very ill-educated when it comes to identifying Snakes in Suits.

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 20:19:14

Why on earth would you not want him as your GP, anyway? WTAF hmm

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 20:23:52

x-posted.

For God's sake, do you really think that a doctor shouldn't be permitted to examine a woman's breasts for cancer just because he looks at porn?

That's an insane and incredibly offensive thing to say.

Handbagsonnhold Sat 02-Nov-13 20:25:06

I personally wouldn't care how much my GP enjoyed porn....cam shows....etc etc as long as he was an excellent doctor....and refrained from his antics during my appointment!!!!

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 02-Nov-13 20:25:25

"who would deny that he has a problem?"

I would.

The only problem this guy has is that his wife has now found out about his true sexual preferences.

There is "helping" with that, although there is plenty of scope for bollocksology about sex addiction and being a victim of his own extraordinary vocation.

"unless there is a no-brainer like violence or child abuse."

Or a constant pattern of infidelity for the entirety of their relationship.

Or a belief that women are objects to be purchased for sexual gratification.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 02-Nov-13 20:27:01

"do you really think that a doctor shouldn't be permitted to examine a woman's breasts for cancer just because he looks at porn?"

I certainly wouldn't want any man who looks at porn anywhere near my body.

I will make sure that I always choose a female doctor for breast exams.

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 20:27:03

Nor would I, Handbags

The op writes: I found a load of contacts to random girls with pretty revealing member photos. Being a bit naive I thought maybe it was some sort of spam, but having looked through the chat history it is much more than that

No, I would not be at all happy knowing that my GP was a heavy porn user who went on webcams for sex chat when his 1 year old baby was napping.

Vivacia Sat 02-Nov-13 20:36:00

Porn-viewing professionals is perhaps a discussion for another thread?

Tee hee hee!!! at handbags eh? !!!

Heee!!!

!!!Oh how we laughed at the silly old ladies on here with their quaint ideas about heavy porn use and wanking when his baby is asleep!! !!fgs it's only a bit of wanking porn!!!

Is that a rough translation handbags and maypole ?

Yawn.

Horlicks calls.

Viv, I am intrigued by your use of 'professional'

can you expand?

(suspects another tin-pot theory)

Handbagsonnhold Sat 02-Nov-13 20:48:06

Unlikely....many thanks for the compliment....however I am an "old lady" also I'm afraid. Obviously different views from your own but just different....not right or wrong ....an opinion. I expressed to Op how I'd find his timing most upsetting during childcare, pregnancy etc its absolutely dreadful and possibly I wouldn't ever forgive....On a personal level

However on a professional level...

It's just it doesn't make him a dreadful GP who shouldn't look at breasts etc!

Viv agree this is not what thread is about....

Mellowandfruitful Sat 02-Nov-13 20:52:25

I think the professionals using porn discussion is becoming a bit derailing here and that would be a shame for the OP, who has said this is pretty much her only source of support.

OP, so sorry for you that this has happened. I think you're right to want him to show initiative in trying to fix this. It isn't impossible, although those posters saying how hard it is to rebuild trust are ones to listen to. But he has to understand what he is losing and be willing to make the drastic changes necessary to avoid that, if he really wants to.

Vivacia Sat 02-Nov-13 20:54:31

Viv, I am intrigued by your use of 'professional'

Er, that a doctor is a professional. Tin-pot enough for you?

Handbagsonnhold Sat 02-Nov-13 20:55:52

Mellow I agree ....and Op I truly apologise if it has offended you. Thinking of you x

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 20:59:23

Yep, sorry OP. There is some really offensive stuff on here now and I apologise for provoking it, albeit unwittingly. xx

Handbags wrote 'I personally wouldn't care how much my GP enjoyed porn....cam shows....etc etc as long as he was an excellent doctor....and refrained from his antics during my appointment!!!!'

I find that offensive.

Handbagsonnhold Sat 02-Nov-13 21:28:34

Yes Amazon, in hindsight I agree....Hands up, particularly the last sentence could have offended and that is why I apologised to Op for any upset caused.

babyotter Sat 02-Nov-13 22:03:43

Hey, don't worry about the derailing. Was a distraction at least.

A lot of what maypole said resonated with me - I am also a doctor, and having been out with quite a few other doctors blush , there are definitely some very odd characters out there.

I also agree about the parenting thing - am going to turn it off - but it was quite therapeutic doing it in the first place.

We've talked and talked and talked. I am exhausted but starting to feel a bit more positive again. Thanks everyone. thanks

Vivacia Sat 02-Nov-13 22:14:48

I know what you mean about it being therapeutic, I'd have wanted to smash screens to smithereens.

maypoledancer Sat 02-Nov-13 22:22:46

Glad you are feeling better OP and really hope you can move on from this and emerge with a stronger marriage and a happy family unit.

Good luck with everything, especially your new baby. smile

HotDogSlaughter Sat 02-Nov-13 22:25:13

I am so glad you feel more positive op.

I must say I agree with UA on a lot of this. Heavy porn use does affect the way men perceive women in everyday circumstance. I wouldn't like it if my GP was that fixed on pornography. But in the real world we don't have a clue.

I wish you all the best and every happiness op.

He's talked you round then OP.

See you back on here soon.

maypoledancer Sun 03-Nov-13 00:01:36

He's talked you round then OP.
See you back on here soon.

What a spiteful and projecting thing to say - and to a woman in her last trimester of pregnancy who is having a horrible time. Absolutely shameful. What are you trying to achieve? Are you affronted if someone doesn't want to follow your hysterical, man-hating LTB 'advice'?

I can remember being on these boards a long tme ago and someone posting that there were vultures on MN who circled hoping to feed on dying relationships.

I thought that was a bit extreme, but this seems to me to be a good example of that. But perhaps only to be expected from someone who said upthread that children are 'better off' if their dad fucks off out of their lives.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 07:21:59

Just remember that in all that talking and talking and talking the chances are that he was lying and lying and lying.

You can't believe anything he says about this, as he has proved to you already.

Mapleissweet Sun 03-Nov-13 08:21:35

Just because op's dh has a sex addiction of sorts does not automatically mean everything is over.
He has behaved appallingly and I suspect it will take an awful lot if work, upset and difficult times to move on. The whole Ltb is not always that easy or the right thing to do when everything us taken into account.
Op I hope you find the strength to get through the next few months. I went through a very difficult time with my dh after dc4, he did some very poor things (not unfaithful but selfish and of poor judgement). It has been a difficult road, but absolutely the right road. He has changed a certain part of his character and done some serious self reflection.
I hope your dh can truely see the hurt he has caused and do everything he can to save his family.

HotDogSlaughter Sun 03-Nov-13 11:29:16

Mayfield you are talking utter shite and you know it.

maypoledancer Sun 03-Nov-13 11:56:15

Mayfield you are talking utter shite and you know it.

What an aggressive and mindless statement.

Join every post I see you make on these boards makes you look like another embittered, angry person determined to recruit new members to a gang of wronged women.

Why don't you get some counselling to try to rid yourself of a view of half the human race that is so negative it makes you sit on these boards trying to convince people that they or their partners are liars and cheats? I mean that kindly, honestly. It's a pretty toxic way to behave (especially to a pregnant woman). Do you think it helps anyone in any way, apart from you perhaps (because you seem like you need to vent all the time)? It must be horrible to feel as you do.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 17:41:12

I was just pointing out that he was lying to her face about the extent of his involvement with this until she presented him with evidence to the contrary.

It would be very foolish and naive to imagine that he is being truthful now.

That's just basic good sense.

"It must be horrible to feel as you do."

How I feel is that women shouldn't have to put up with poor treatment or unhappiness just to preserve their relationship with a man.

It's obvious that you feel differently and believe that women's happiness and wellbeing should be sacrificed on the altar of keeping a relationship going, no matter how badly it serves her.

I think that view is a disturbing one, and peddling it to the vulnerable is pretty nasty. But I don't follow you around from thread to thread telling you to get counselling.

maypoledancer Sun 03-Nov-13 18:17:43

It's obvious that you feel differently and believe that women's happiness and wellbeing should be sacrificed on the altar of keeping a relationship going

No, I don't think women should up with poor treatment or unhappiness just to preserve their relationship with a man. I wouldn't have left my EA husband and broken up my family if I had believed that. I think urging someone to put up with poor treatment is a bad idea.

But people can overcome difficulties in marriage and giving that a go isn't the worst idea when you are about to have a baby. When you are feeling upset and vulnerable but have had a discussion with your husband that you think has been productive and has made you feel better it isn't helpful for a stranger to insist that during that discussion he has been 'lying and lying' or that it is 'foolish and naive' to believe anything else.

It's not your place to say something like that based on a few paragraphs on an internet site; you can't possibly know what is going on in this marriage. You give a strong impression of wanting to fill the OP's mind with doubts because you happen to think he doesn't deserve another chance. People can and do mend their ways and overcome unhealthy habits and compulsions.

And I am not 'following you around', I've been on these threads a lot this weekend and have been really struck by how hectoring, dogmatic and one-size-fits-all much of your advice has been.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 18:30:12

"it isn't helpful for a stranger to insist that during that discussion he has been 'lying and lying' or that it is 'foolish and naive' to believe anything else."

Maybe it is helpful. It might be. You can't possibly know that. And it's not for you to decide.

I was trying to be helpful by reminding her of his recent dishonesty.

It's very easy to believe someone you love is telling you the truth even when there is very little reason to trust them.

It's up to her whether she believes him or not, but scepticism about his honesty would seem wise given that she has just found out that he has been lying to her for their entire relationship.

maypoledancer Sun 03-Nov-13 18:52:47

I was trying to be helpful by reminding her of his recent dishonesty.

Ah, OK, that makes sense, because of course she probably will have forgotten about that. So it must have been really, really helpful.

Listen, you stay in your black and white world, do it your way and I shall do it mine. I'm not interested in arguing with you any more Join. You can't convince me. I think your view of the world is pretty simplistic and jaundiced but you probably think it's realistic and pragmatic. You perhaps think I lack 'basic good sense' but I'd rather think that I have a more generous view of human beings as flawed and complex but with the ability to reform and repent.

I think it is sad not to think this, to be always mistrustful and thinking the worst of everyone.

I'm happily separated but I would rather be happily married with my family intact. It's the better option and if it can be achieved then that should be encouraged. To err is human, to forgive is divine. Trust can be rebuilt.

The OP said that what I said resonated with her and I'm glad about that. I am also glad that she is feeling better and wish her the best sorting out this mess, moving forward and making a happy marriage and family again.
smile

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 03-Nov-13 19:22:07

"because of course she probably will have forgotten about that."

Yes, she might well have forgotten about that.

It's the easiest thing in the world to go back to thinking that someone you only recently found out is a liar is someone you can trust.

"I'd rather think that I have a more generous view of human beings as flawed and complex but with the ability to reform and repent."

It's very obvious that that's how you like to think of yourself.

You go on about it rather a lot.

To me you come across as someone with a very obvious agenda to convince women that they should put up with everything other than violence or child abuse, regardless of their wellbeing.

I agree that people can reform and repent.

But that doesn't mean anyone else owes them destroying their own peace of mind trying to forgive them.

MistressDeeCee Mon 04-Nov-13 23:52:09

Agree with maypoledancer 100%. & I hope the OP is no longer reading this thread or she'll probably be feeling far worse than she did previously.

I can't stand the way some love to over-moralise about other's DH, the male psyche etc. As if they & their DH live in an absolutely perfect world 24/7 & if he shook that world a bit then off they'd be, bag packed immediately, sailing off into a brave new life. Yeah, as if. As soon as an opinion lands that's different from the 'permananently outraged about men' crew its no longer about the OPs issue, its about focusing on tearing down alternative opinions.

Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody is perfect. Sometimes people don't live squeaky clean. But woe betide a man who makes a mistake in the MN world.

I don't think the OPs DH was right at all. I do think porn etc is a weakness of the mind/flesh & he probably did that kind of thing before they were married, if that's his predeliction. Who can say they 100% know the full past of every man they've been with anyway? He's been caught now. & I hope he is totally honest about why, and that they can find a way to get past that.

& for women in the porn industry, although they're being exploited I don't buy the line that they're all victims either. Particularly not in the western world.

Boosterseat Tue 05-Nov-13 07:57:45

He's been caught now. & I hope he is totally honest about why, and that they can find a way to get past that.

He wasn't honest when he got caught, he lied some more.
That's not just a mistake, that's continued deception and it really isn't on.

MistressDeeCee Tue 05-Nov-13 13:15:30

Ok he wasn't honest and continued to lie - not having my judge, jury & hang him high hat on today I'm still going to say I hope they get past this.

I'm always mindful that I don't actually know the OP or partner and from outside any relationship its very easy to gauge all by one's own moral compass, turn over every little detail then bang on & on & on about the man's faults.

I'm not saying he's right. I'm saying in reality couples get through all sorts of things. Whether lying involved or not. I can't gauge nor will I tell anybody what their moral tolerance levels should, or must be.

Simple as that

maypoledancer Tue 05-Nov-13 15:58:40

Agree with MistressDeeCee. Many people, found out doing something they know is wrong or very likely to upset someone they love, will deny it, or if they cannot, will embark on damage limitation and admit only what they need to.

This doesn't mean that they won't or can't reform, or aren't very sorry, or aren't completely mortified by what they have done. In fact if they are completely mortified and horrified by their own behaviour they are more likely not to tell the whole truth if it is very damning and hurtful. People can lie out of fear, of upsetting someone or of losing everything they hold dear. And they can lie out of guilt, because they feel terrible about something they are doing and very ashamed.

They might just not give a shit, or want to have their cake and eat it; personally I can't really judge from here, not being psychic.

Everyone is flawed; what is better, to deny something because you know it's wrong, or to shrug and tell all as if it isn't? The OP said she and her dh have 'talked and talked and talked'. I don't understand why there are people who simply can't accept that he could have owned up to everything, but insist that he will have just 'lied and lied' during that conversation. It's just speculative and cruel and unhelpful.

Everyone tells lies in relationships. Usually small and harmless ones (you look great in that dress, no I don't think s/he is attractive, I love your mother, I didn't see your text). This doesn't make them an all-round terrible partner, nor does it mean that they are an habitual, pathological or cynical liar. Just because someone is secretive/dishonest about one issue it doesn't mean that they lie about everything, all the time, or don't love and value their partner, or deserve a character assassination at the hands of MNers who do this on every thread, irrespective of the damage it causes.

Maybe it's because it's porn (which I am no apologist for); if he were hiding/lying about drinking then he wouldn't be condemned like this (hope not anyway). The OP would get sympathy but encourage him to work through his problems.

But if you've been cheated on and were the last to know, there is zero tolerance when it comes to sexual transgressions. All men are liars and cheats, your husband included. LTB!!!

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