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Is this normal? I can't tell anymore(152 Posts)
Ok have posted on here previously about new BF of 2 months and problems with penetrative sex. I need some advice and opinions on whether I am over worrying/ overthinking which is possible due to previous EA relationship slightly skewing my thinking, or does it just heighten your senses?
Anyway the issues are:-
1) still not had penetrative sex but do everything else. He won't really say why just that it will happen. He now tells me he has ordered a toy, not totally unexpected as we have chatted about it. Is that weird or not?
2) he talks as though he wants a future with me and he has found someone he loves but I find this hard to accept, not so much because of the short time span as I know it can happen, but because he was very hurt by breakup of last relationship which was only in the spring
3) a few times he has said things to me in the name of 'teasing' but to me they didn't sound like that. For example if I've said something unintentionally that he hasn't liked that's when he seems to do this
4) for the first few weeks we seemed to see eachother more frequently than now. I know we can't keep up seeing eachother every night but I suppose I'm just a bit insecure
I suppose I just can't work him out properly yet. Is that normal at this stage? I'm very out of practice. I would say the vast majority of the time we enjoy eachothers company. I'm scared of another abusive relationship
Umm, no, doesn't sound normal. 2 months no sex - totally normal depending on people's thresholds for intimacy, but is he sharing that with you (e.g. I really fancy you, but I save sex for some level of commitment).
On 4, I wouldn't overthink it. Two months is such a short time. If it's tailing off, it's tailing off and it's a shame but it's not the time to be chasing a relationship.
Ultimately he needs to tell you what he wants and his boundaries. If he's backing off and not telling you anything then sadly he is telling you that in his own way...
He sounds like a cock.
I suppose 4 could be normal. The others - no.
IMO, if you feel you can't work a guy out - run. Who wants the crap of "working them out"? Throw him back in the sea and save your time for someone who's just fun to be with.
It's not so much I'm racking my brains trying to work him out, he talks to me about what he wants a lot. I think it might be me as I seem to worry about things more when we are not together. He is fun to be with and treats me well. I know nobody is perfect but I'm not sure what my level of allowance should be. I felt a bit offended by the sex toy in a way, is that odd?
Talking about buying a sex toy when you aren't intimate is frankly a bit odd. That would bother me also.
I would say we have been intimate just not had penetrative sex. I have never come across this before. I don't if its due to medication he's on
Well, what sounds very likely to me is that he's got willy issues ie he can't get it up, or is scared of not being able to get it up. That would explain the no-penetration and the sex toy.
However, the unpleasant teasing is more worrying. What's it about? (NB if you would rather not share then you don't have to). If it's about sex then his issues could be deeper - and nastier - than simple performance anxiety.
If you're not sure about this man on any level then don't pursue it. The sex is crap & he makes 'teasing' (bullying?) comments. After just a couple of months there really shouldn't be this many question-marks.
Agree with SGB- erectile dysfunction.
Or gay but not admitted it to himself.
People who use insults then say it was a joke or teasing or usually lacking in confidence- they haven't got the guts to say what they mean or if they do, they back track by saying it's a joke/teasing.
He sounds far to complicated. I'd bin. Who wants a guy who doesn't want sex but can't even say why not?
1. Not normal. He's ordered a toy - fine if you're ok with it and I hope you know what the toy is. But he won't tell you why penetrative sex isn't on the cards for him yet? What's the mystery? I'd be really wanting to know. Mental health issues? Emotional issues? Sexual health issues? I'd want to know.
2. Too much too soon? Especially in the light of the unrevealed mystery at no. 1 above?
3. Nasty remarks disguised as 'teasing' are never good. First steps towards controlling behaviour?
4. Don't know. Could mean anything.
On the whole, this guy isn't sounding like a long-term bet.
No the teasing has nothing to do with sex.
An example is I had major issues with my ex and his phone, being secretive ect. He knows this as we have talked a lot about our past. Anyway he's been very open, leaves phone everywhere and anywhere, no lock on, the very occasional message he gets he opens in front of me. Anyway one night I can't remember how it came about but we were in the kitchen and he picked up his phone and said" 2 missed calls" and grinned I just said " oh" and he was joking there weren't any calls. He just cuddled me. It might be me taking things to heart
He has said to me that I mention my ex too much and I could see he was right I did, it seemed to be then that he did this
I think your instincts may be telling you it's not quite right but you can't give yourself a concrete reason why it's definitely wrong. I have found that with some past relationships, I feel fine with the person but then get irritated by them when I'm on my own - that could be your time to get perspective and 'space'. He may be lovely but I must admit I would be uncomfortable with the sex toy talk before penetrative sex. I'm not judging - some couples don't want to have penetrative sex - but if one person does then I think that should be addressed before you move on to the more 'alternative pleasures'!
I just want to know the reason behind the no penetration. He's great at everything else so I'm not exactly un satisfied. He said to start with it was because he likes to feel secure in a relationship but its 2 mths down the line now. I guess I'm worrying its because he still has feelings for ex and its tied in with that though he strenuously denies this
Re the 'two
unmissed calls I think he may be trying to get you to trust him, in other words 'you wouldn't get that crap' from me, as cumbersome as that may be.
On the sex issue, and in fact on both issues, talk to him.
If you get nowhere dump.
Does he have erection problems?
If not I really can't understand why he's holding off, it seems quite controlling. What you have to do to make this special prince feel special enough? I suspect it's probably far more complex
and fucked up than just having feelings for an ex.
He does have erection problems. He focuses on me a lot. Sorry if its too much info but only seems to get hard if he watches me or the usual first thing in the morning thing
Oh and then they are not that strong
Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear, but he has issues & I think you know that already - your past isn't making you paranoid & not trusting in him - its making you not trusting of your own instincts, which by the very nature & content of this post sound to me to be screaming at you.
Be up front & honest with him - ask the questions as regard sex etc etc - if he can't give give you the same respect back - RUN!!
Another possibility on the no penetrative sex reason, is religion - this happened to a good friend of mine, she thought he was wonderful & they were rushing full steam into marriage very quickly as a result - so he did at least explain why - didn't stop him shagging anything that moved behind her back though, including molesting under age girls
I'd also be on the look out for any signs of S&M tendencies - maybe he can't get it up without the right type of stimulus, which won't bode well if its not something you would be comfortable with - the sex toy thing so early & pre & instead if full sex is odd & rings alarm bells -
as does his phone call jibe - quite snipey & bitchy - not getting his own way, so game plays - not good
a lot about what he wants....what about what you want & look for in a man? Its ok not to feel that he may not be good enough for you, you know
You are going too fast. Have you had any counselling after your previous bad relationship? If not, go and do that before you jump into another one.
You need to find out why the talk of something permanent sounds good to you.
You need to find out why after only two months you have adopted the role of mystery solver/problem solver here and yet are still involved.
Also, he is weird and very possibly controlling.
I would not hang around waiting for sex, especially in light of Number 3, which shows a cruel streak.
I really have no idea, but a few possibilities popped into my head, already brought up by other posters:
He might be worried about getting it up
He might have certain tendancies and he is trying to work out if you like them too
How often do you see him?
It sounds like you both really need to talk openly about the sexual side of your relationship.
PS - don't understand what you mean about teasing.
I do think it sounds a bit odd but not sure. Not keen on the "teasing", don't like being mean or goading and dressing it up as a "joke" as that's when people tend to start to come out with the usual gems of oh you're so insensitive, can't take a joke et when actually they are being nasty. However maybe that is not what's happening here, just what came to my mind with teasing.
No penetrative sex after 2 months to me is unusual... But I guess it explains it if he is having erectile problems. I did have a relationship with someone who had erectile dysfunction and personally it was a deal breaker as he did not seem to be making any effort to get the problem resolved as he thought it was fine as long as we could do other things.. For me penetrative sex is not the only important thing but it is necessary in a relationship. I don't think there is anything wrong in admitting that if that's the case for you. I also would be a bit put off with the toy, like he thinks he then doesn't need to sort his problem and can just substitute a toy. It's not the same intimacy.
Good luck OP.
Merel, I think what longhairedcat means about teasing is that he will say something cutting and then, 'oh haha, just teasing' which he believes erases any culpability on his part for basically, plainly insulting/disrespecting her.
That in itself would be a deal breaker for me...it is the foundation technique for Death By Ten Thousand Cuts.
Run away, now. Honestly. Before you get too involved. This has all the signs of an emotionally abusive relationship- not because he has willy issues, but because he isn't being open or honest about them, and you are already feeling insecure.
Have you had therapy/counselling since your last relationship? It would be a really good idea.
Imho, the phone call example would fall more in the category of "games" (Games People Play -a good book) as Rockinhippie mentioned. That goes beyond mere disrespect into bonifide mindfuck territory. It may have been the beginning move in conditioning you for when he really does get other
participants interested calls.
Trust your gut. At the end of the day, you do not really need to know the minute details of his sexual dysfunction. That you have arrived at the point of thinking this is not right for you is a valid reason to disconnect. You do not owe him anything, including sympathy/empathy/compassion so he gets 'his needs met'. Let him use someone else.
TBH this much hassle after a couple of months should really equal 'bin him'. Do it politely, but do it. DOn't forget it's fine to be single, and life is too short to devote it to trying to sort out some inadequate man's problems just so as not to be single. If you want something to rescue and fix up, go to a dogs' home. (OK, most men don't need training not to shit on the carpet, but that's easier to fix than willy-wilt or headfuckery).
Agree with SGB, problems in early days <yawn already>. You're not compatible possibly. You can't really fix that.
Also agreeing with SGB.
2 months aka 8 weeks, is far too quick to already be worrying about "what does this mean?" and "why is he doing that?". It's not worth it.
Thanks for all your replies. I definately don't see him as a 'player' it's just doesn't fit. He's quite shy and was very nervous when we first met he met my grown up son and daughter and was also nervous. I think at heart he's a nice person.
He's on good terms with ex wife and all her family ( it ended years ago) which says something I think. I don't think he's using me, I think he's a bit embarrassed as he seems to avoid penetration in various ways for example saying he needs the loo. I genuinely think he'd be hurt if I ended it, I know that's no reason to keep it going but I do like him and in a way I think we could be good together, loads in common ect.
How do I broach the sex subject in a sensitive way? I would like to at least have a shot at sorting it out. Also if I do mention it and it
can't be sorted and I then end the relationship he will know why and I don't want to make things worse for him.
Just want to add I am not desperate to hang on and am comfortable being alone, I don't have to have a relationship, it's more that there's a lot about this that is good and feels right and surely the beginning is a time when you are a bit unsure? I've forgotten as its quite some time since I was starting a new relationship
How did you meet this individual, was it online?.
Points 2 and 3 in your post could be construed as emotionally abusive.
How long is it since that abusive relationship happened, I have a nasty feeling that you are now investing yourself in yet another loser of a man.
You are not on this planet to act as any rescuer and or saviour to anyone else; I am wondering if you have rescuer and or saving tendencies because neither approach in relationships actually works.
You seem really nice but your boundaries and radar are still very much all over the place and thus skewed. He is not above hurting your feelings, he does not deserve your consideration at all now. Two months in should be a lot happier than this as well, he seems to be laying the foundations for you to be further abused.
I would also look at Womens Aid Freedom Programme as this is designed specifically for those women who have been in abusive relationships.
Only time a boyfriend didn't want sex constantly with me it turned out he was a junky. Could that be possible?
No definately not a junkie
Yes online dating. I don't want to be a rescuer or saviour in any way, but I am a bit sensitive to other people's feelings, sometimes too much. I want what I want in a relationship as well and I don't believe in making it all about them. I'm not sure that he's a loser as such. I don't feel taken advantage of in any way by him, as in my previous relationship
I'm not making much sense am I? If all this is true why have I got theses questions?
I guess I'm trying to establish if I would be this way with anyone
a) because of past experience
b) because I am a natural fretter and worrier
Everyone, no matter who they are and no matter what their lifestyle, can only judge a new boyfriend based on a) the boyfriend's behaviour/personality, b) their own experience and c) their own standards. He is not necessarily a bad person and you may be fretting or worrying unduly but also he may simply not be the right person for you at this particular stage of your life.
IMO if he hasn't put it in yet he never will, the toys just confirm it.
The rest, too soon to tell in 8 weeks.
My issue is I worry about how much I should compromise in a relationship.
I don't want to bend over backwards for someone like I did before. This seemed great at the very start then obviously a few weeks down the line you notice a persons little flaws start to show as you begin to get to know them. This is when I start to worry
Yes I'm starting to think he never will. I need to ask him why again don't I
That's what dating is all about. Enjoy the first few weeks, uncover the flaws, decide the flaws are too much, say your good-byes, rinse and repeat. Normal
What are the reasons behind not putting it in? I realise they are complex but I've honestly not had this before
I don't think the complex reasons are your problem tbh. If you like a good hard shag and he can't deliver, time to move him on.
You say there's been a change since 'the first few weeks' but it actually looks as if you are indeed in the first few weeks right now.
I suggest you stop trying to work him out (unless you are auditioning for the role of nurse/therapist, not partner). And instead work out your own feelings.
The very early stages of dating is when you work out whether this person is right for you. You don't have a single positive thing to say about him. Never mind what he wants - what about you?
You're trying to be kind to this person and to work out if your expectations are too high. You like him. All normal. But, at this stage in a relationship. you really shouldn't have to be working out how to tell someone their ED problems and so forth are making you uncomfortable. This is the one time in a relationship when you can say 'it's just not working for me' ... and you don't need to expand.
"What are the reasons behind not putting it in?"
Can be lots of reasons. ED being the most common.... if he's got any heart or blood-pressure (hypertension) related medical conditions, that can be a factor. Stress or anxiety (either generalised or localised around sex itself) can do it. If he's buying toys its like someone who has a driving phobia buying you a bus-pass... ie. he realises he's never going to be able to penetrate adequately so he's providing a substitute. Mind you, there are some men that prefer to use toys and masturbate over the memory in private...
"you really shouldn't have to be working out how to tell someone their ED problems and so forth are making you uncomfortable"
Tell him you have an Up or Out policy
If he finally "put it in", then would that make everything ok here?
Do you believe that on some unconscious level...you are a part of the dysfunction? Your insistance on having to know why , and this being the hinge on whether or not you leave the relationship, may be a Catch 22: if you never find out why, then you never break it off? Are you manufacturing justification for staying when your gut feeling has red flags flying full mast?
2 months, 8 weeks: barely a blink in time...you only know what he has let you know about him. He could actually still be married, and the religion card as mentioned above is why he won't\can't do it. [Think Bill Clinton "I did not have sex with that woman"] Him still being married would also explain his shyness in meeting your adult children.
The fake phone calls still sticks me with suspicion. You posted that you told him that was a significant source of pain in the downfall of your previous relationship...so he jokingly does this "little" trick which essentially rubs your nose in it. That was just mean, longhairedcat. I think he has tipped his hand early...some emotional abusers can carry the perfect partner script for a couple of years.
Sorry to go on, but one other thing I was thinking about this is the distinction between compromising and boundaries. Imho, compromising is appropriate for what toppings go on the pizza, or maybe he is a few pounds over weight, or you may not like his car. Boundaries are for protecting yourself from disrespect, meanness, any form of abuse, etc, and should not be open to compromise, iyswim.
You said it made you feel uncomfortable when he told you he bought a sex toy. Did he not ask first, he just informed you? This is an EA red flag because he rendered you invisible. This would also tie in with "he talks to me about what he wants alot".
Take care, it is not you, it is him. Walk away.
Hmmm loads to think about here thank you all
Yes he does have lots of positive points but I came on here to discuss specific concerns which is why I haven't mentioned them I suppose
He has mentioned sex toy and possibly buying one and I didn't say no so I guess he thought it ok ( I didn't really think he'd do it though)
He's definately not involved/ married to anyone else. I can call him anytime have been to his house have heard him talk to his relative who mentioned she'd heard he'd met me
The sex issue isn't the hinge on whether I stay or go but it does puzzle me. If we could talk about it then fine. I tried not to make a big issue and give it a bit of time as I know with ED making an issue of it can make matters worse
Yes he has had heart problems and on medications. Was very wound up about telling me possibly because he knows the effect it's had on him
I think it's an excellent idea to stop trying to work him out but concentrate on working out my own feelings
He has mentioned sex toy and possibly buying one and I didn't say no so I guess he thought it ok
Sorry but this ^^^^^^ tells me that you are REALLY NOT READY FOR A RELATIONSHIP your boundaries are so skewed you are leaving yourself WIDE open for EA again & this guy does not sound good for you at all.
Switch that sentence a bit - change it to - he mentioned anal sex & I didn't say no, so I guess he thought it was okay - does that still sound okay that he took the liberty of f* ing you up the **se because you didn't say no ??
The point is YOU DID NOT SAY YES, but you are willing to accept that as your responsibility as you didn't say no - that is NOT & SHOULD NOT be how it works
He is taking control & you are rolling over & letting him -STOP
Please take time out from this guy & try counselling again, your boundaries are still very skewed on a lot if levels & you really need to sort the root cause of this out or you will forever attract the EA type & it does sound that's exactly what you have here -
maybe if you were stronger & less of a victim it could be different, but I suspect if you were that way you would have already told him to jog on
Excellent post, Rockinhippy
Well that seems to be that. I brought the subject up tonight, very gently, very sensitively and to see if we could work it out together and he went very quiet and then said he didn't understand why I was blaming it all on him, I told him I wasn't trying to do that but to see if we could sort it as penetrative sex is something I would like to do. I tried to discuss possible reasons and he maintained he didn't know why
Anyway he's gone all hurt and left and gone home. I said " is that it then?" and he just said we'll leave it for a while. Hmmmm
Have I done the wrong thing bringing it all up this soon?
I might have just lost someone really nice because I didn't have the patience to wait and see if it happened. I think it would have helped if he had been ale to say why he thought he had a problem. I feel awful now.
No, you haven't done the wrong thing.
ED is a terribly difficult thing for a man in a new relationship. But I don't see what more someone suffering fom that condition could hope for is a partner is prepared to wait, will talk gentl and tactfully, and is redy to see it as a joint issue.
And he's just rejected that, and twisted your whole approach, trying to assign 'blame' - that's not unease at or lack of skill in discussing a sensitive issue. It's a whole different viewpoint - he's seeing you as a blameworthy opponent, not a potential partner.
He could have talked to you about it, everyone on here finds it easy to talk to you! He has gone off in a mood hoping you will promise never to mention it again. If you are in a relationship you need to be able to talk about this stuff and I think you have had a lucky escape... He sounds like hard work.
Thank you meditrina I really did try to be sensitive about it and said several times I wasn't blaming him but was hoping we could solve it together. Oh well I tried can't do anymore. Be nice to find a man who didn't think he was being blamed every time you try to discuss an issue and who could see me as a partner!
Well I am not prepared to get into another relationship where I compromise so much that I loose myself as in the EA relationship that I had. I don't mind compromise to a point but I need to be able to discuss things. He must have been very embarrassed though so I do feel a bit bad
No not at all Longhairedcat, you've done exactly the right thing & he is playing passive aggressive as his next hand of cards to exert control - I'm really sorry, I'm sure it's all very upsetting for you, but far better this now than years more of EA.
A good decent man would not react in this way, they would take on board that they were being unfair to you, that's its not all about him & however difficult it might have been he would have at very least appologised & stayed & talked it out, not throw the blame back on you for his own inadequacies, which is basically what he has done.
I remember when I was first with my own DH (then new DP) he started going on about not wanting women with any baggage & therefore wasn't sure - this was after he had chased after me - I held no punches & told him he had a brass nerve & that he more bloody baggage than I could even think of & he should think himself bloody lucky I was even interested & got up to leave - I wasn't kind, why should I be, he wasn't - it didn't go against me because after several EA relationships I wasn't wasting my time on another potential one with someone who thought only they mattered.
He was shocked I was so blunt, apologised & said I was right & he was a complete fool not to see that - we've been together & very happy for 15 years
In short, once you learn that YOU don't deserve that crap & don't roll over & accept it, they learn they can't walk all over & control you & they either respect you a hell of a lot more for it, or if they are really f***ed up move on to the next victim
You've probably had a lucky escape
Well we will see what happens, but unless he comes back apologising, not for his issue but for leaving and trying to make me take some of the blame and willing to discuss options to sort it I'm not bothering.
I learnt something from that abusive relationship
Don't feel too sad, You've said what you are finding difficult and that you need to work on it.'shyness' can be an excuse to be passive aggressive and I think that the 'blame' and 'leave it for a while' are designed to make you doubt yourself and start chasing him and apologising. I'd leave well alone or you could end up in another EA relationshipxx
I'm definately not going after him. If he really wants me and cares he will have to come back and resolve to work through the issue
I'm not sure he is abusive really. I do think he has issues around sex and confidence and I feel I've just knocked his confidence more. But what could I do? Never mention it and pretend the sex was normal. I might even have been prepared to forgo penetration if we had discussed the issue and agreed on something as the rest was good but for him to try to apportion blame on me was wrong. I tried to boost confidence by saying we had some really good sessions and what we did was good
Sounds to me like you are going to be just fine
Maybe you should treat yourself to something nice tomorrow as a pat on the back to yourself
That was I reply to your first post above - your second one is sounding a bit like you are making excuses for him - do be careful with that - its a pattern too easy to fall into & it won't get you respected by him & by the sounds of it he doesn't really deserve you making excuses for what actually is very poor behaviour.
Stay strong - you deserve better
& FTR you compromise on things like where to go on holiday, or even where to live - NEVER on what happens with YOUR body or YOUR feeling ;)
Enjoy treating yourself tomorrow, I'm off to bed now - good night x
Do you mean the leaving and blaming is poor behaviour?
The ED he can't really help. I'm not making excuses for him just finding reasons but I have to think of myself. I did like him a lot and if we had chatted about it and he hadn't taken it like that as I said I'm not that bothered about penetration
He seemed to be deflecting by making out he thought I meant we weren't having sex that often. Then listed the times I hadn't been able to / wanted to as a way of proving it wasn't all him
I would say that he didn't react at all well. That doesn't bode well for the future.
Just out of interest how do you think he should have reacted, making some allowance for embarrassment on his behalf?
I think you are better off without him. You asked him nicely and sensitively why there had been no sex, completely fair. He hasn't answered, he's just tried to blame you and also cover up the real reason. The ED isn't the problem, the dishonesty is and for this reason, I wouldn't accept any apology, I would just end it.
How he should have reacted by telling you the truth. Ok it may be embarrassing for him but when you are with someone you do have to go through embarrassing stuff like this. Honesty is critical.
idespair yes you are right, it's not the ED that's the problem it's the not being open to exploring why. I'm glad you said it was completely fair of me to ask him. I was wondering if 4 weeks in to staying the night together was too soon to mention it
What if he doesn't know what the truth is? He maintains he doesn't know why
It doesn't matter why, how or if he knows or not. He doesn't have penatrative sex, you want it, he won't discuss it and sulks off when asked to discuss it. Surely thats enough?
Yes I'm going to stop thinking now and go to bed. I will not be contacting him
Your most recent posts about what he said are really jarring, both for what he said and did, and for this from you:
Do you mean the leaving and blaming is poor behaviour?
Please, please go and get yourself some counselling. The Freedom Programme was mentioned upthread -- it's run by Women's Aid and you should look into it.
Please, please do not contact this man again or accept any excuses from him if he decides to continue playing games with you. Consider all the ugliness that he has revealed about himself to be a gift to you and don't be tempted to give this another try. You do not owe him anything. You only owe yourself. Take that duty seriously.
Look I am not going to lose myself again in a relationship which is why I brought it up plus I wanted to see his reaction and how he dealt with it. I think it's a good thing I was able to a) see it needed to be tackled and b) actually tackle it
I just meant things aren't always totally black and white and whilst ideally he would have reacted with total consideration for me and talked till it was solved, in reality I can see it was probably very embarrassing for him and it doesn't necessarily make him bad or an abuser
However I am my number one priority now and am not here just to give to someone
I think the correct response from him would have been to offer to see doctors or therapists or whatever it took to address the problem. If he doesn't want to do any of that or if he's already been that route and there's been no improvement - and this is clearly a recurring/chronic matter - then he should be honest.
I think you've done the right thing. It's a shame when a relationship seems great apart from one unfixable problem. It takes real integrity and self-respect to say 'this isn't right for me' and end it rather than compromising & sticking around not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. I think you'll look back on this as a positive chapter in your life.
"I'm not sure he is abusive really. I do think he has issues around sex and confidence and I feel I've just knocked his confidence more. But what could I do? Never mention it and pretend the sex was normal"
He wasnt abusive, that's just good old MN hysteria - but he isn't facing up to his own issues, and he needs to as you will hardly be the only woman that will want him to perform.
You did the right thing, at the right time, your antennae are perfectly well tuned.
Thank you cog that what I was hoping for from the conversation to address the problem and perhaps try to solve it together and if it wasn't solvable who knows I might have been able to accept it and work around it had he reacted differently
I did really like him but I can't bury my head in the sand or pretend what I feel doesn't count. Ideally it would be lovely if he came back to me after having had a think and acknowledged the problem and set about trying to tackle it together, but somehow I don't think that will happen and it has to come from him now
Thank you lazyjaney I think I needed to hear that. I feel inside that I know what I'm doing is right but sometimes you just think my god am I missing something here? Am I unable to see abuse when it's staring me in the face?
I have been feeling awful all day and in a way hoping he would call and say I was right we should talk about it
I thought we had the start of something good and he most certainly said he thought so. Why do I feel so miserable?
You'll feel miserable because he was 'Mr Nearly'. We've all met someone like that where we know that, however much we want it to work, it's never going to be right. You're doing the right thing.
I know, it's so unfair, I don't want perfection but I still maintain you have to be able to discuss something as fundamental as that even if its only 4 weeks since we hopped into bed. Or was it too soon to say anything?
I suggest you give yourself a few days of time out away from these circumstances. Sleep on it so to speak. This seemingly obsessive (a strong word but imho appropriate) tendency of yours to repeatedly second guess the minute details is something you could work on with a counsellor.
Sorry it is not working out for you, but at this point I do not believe any justification or reasons will turn this around. Breathe, and let it go.
I don't feel I need a counsellor. I don't think I'm obsessive. I think most people go over things in their head when something first happens
I still think I did right in bringing the subject up but I can't help feeling sad at his reaction and the fact it looks like the relationship is over
Longhairedcat, if you've been through an abusive relationship then you really do need to seek out some counselling for yourself.
You need to be able to see abusive tendencies when they are staring you in the face and counselling will help you see them. One particular thing you need to be able to recognise is communication styles that have no fairness to them (the blaming, refusing to listen, and then leaving in a sulk). But more importantly counselling will help you understand your own feelings and reactions (not sadness at the end because this is natural but how you felt at the beginning, what elements of the relationship you enjoyed, aspects of the relationship you found important).
Well at least me mentioning the issue brought it to head and emonstrated how he deals with problems. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he first left because he must have been very embarrassed so I thought he might need time to process it alone and perhaps contact me later. I guess it's time to move on now
Tbh I'm sick to death of selfish, immature, manchilds. I actually told him I went through the walking out thing with the ex whenever I tried to bring up issues and yet he does the same! I'm tired of men professing to care when they don't. If I sound a bit bitter its because I feel it today!
I feel disappointed to say the least
It is disappointing but I think there's something positive you can take away from the experience. Which is that it's better to trust your judgement and, if you're unhappy, dump early rather than question yourself, try see things from the other person's point of view, give benefits of the doubt, and get too enmeshed. Next one off the rank you won't waste so much time.
I'm not sure you need counselling. You got to the right conclusion here, after all. You'll get quicker with practice
You know what is really scary, the lengths some men will go to for... I don't know what actually, there seems no point to what he said and did, if he turns and runs at the first hurdle
It's making me so distrusting and negative. I don't want to keep raking over thing and have definately decided to move on but just want to see what you all make of this.
He was so keen, he looked after me for a week when I was ill, he told me he had really fallen for me, he told his family ie brothers and sisters about me and how happy he was, he asked me if I was keen on him because if I didn't want a relationship he didn't want to tell his ( adult) children, but he told them. We both came off dating site together, his suggestion not mine but I was happy to do it. He met my ( adult) children. He talked about things we could do in the future, places to go ect. Yet he wasn't overbearing and we weren't in eachothers pockets all the time
I just don't know how the hell I'm ever going to believe a man again. Wtf is it all about? I just do not understand. Why all the game playing? Or is it purely because I said what I said?
Please help, I had all but decided that it was over yesterday evening as I had sent him a message in the day to see if he was ok and to say i didnt want to end the relationship as he seemed so mortified about what I said and I got one back from him saying neither did he yet not committing either way really. So I left it and decided not to contact again. Then yesterday evening he sent me a message asking if I was still speaking to him. A couple of txts went back and forth and an email this morning wishing me a good day at work
No suggestion of meeting or anything. He just wants to be friends doesn't he but won't say it. I just feel so let down after all the things he said to me, he told me he loved me. I really liked him I don't know whether to just call him and say I can't be friends after our relationship because I still have feelings, or do I just wait and see if he wants to see me but is still embarrassed. This is really messing my head up and I need to take control. WHY do men do this?
THEY do it because you let them!! Ignore, ignore, ignorexxx
I'm just too nice aren't I. I still hoped the relationship could work and thought he left the other night because of embarrassment and not being able to deal with it, which to be fair is a reasonable assumption.
Like an idiot I thought he would see me soon after and we would be ok. Instead he seems to be messing with me. Nice eh after weeks of telling me he'd never been so happy
Its so hard, but you couldn't have been clearer and you may only end up going over the same old same old, if you dither. I am so sorry for you it must be so hard.x
I have had another email telling me about his day. I am such an honest person and like everyone to know where they are. I am in a dilemma truly because I really don't feel he is a player yet he's not saying exactly what he wants. I don't know whether to just stand back and give it time to see if he comes out of his shell or to confront and ring him and ask straight out?
I don't want am email and text friendship I would rather cut contact and move on
Could you just tell him that. You don't want email and text friendship, you have said what you want and if he can't do that then you can't cope with being friends?
YOu've nothing to lose?x
My instincts urge me strongly towards bringing it to a head by calling him but I don't want to totally ruin it if he's just needing some space and time to think
That's what holding me back from calling, in case I jump in too soon and he's still processing it iykwim
yes I do. if its his clumsy way of saying he still wants you.Why don't you just say it in am email, he may feel more comfortable emailing and not face to face?
I think I may be better ringing because if I send an email he can not reply and I will still wonder or he can delay replying or be evasive but its more difficult when someone asks you outright. I can't stand being left dangling anymore. But I don't want to push either and maybe I should let him come to the conclusion he wants me and chase me. It's a total dilemma HELP
I think you have answered your own question about your dilemma.
'I can't stand being left dangling anymore'
In my situation what would you honestly do?
I think you are forgetting one thing here. Do you want him? Do you really?
You sent the first text, he's avoiding the issue, being non-committal and talking about his day.
My guess is he's waiting for you to apologise and ask for him back. He left saying it was your problem didn't he?
He hasn't rang you to speak to you, even asked for some more time to process it.
Personally, I'd let it go and cut it off now.
The teasing alone would have raised an eyebrow for me.
Hi lewji I already apologised if I upset him in a text on the night he left ( yes I know you'll probably think it was stupid" but I did feel a bit bad because it must have been bad for any man in that situation
When I text him yesterday asking if he was ok I asked if he wanted to come over last night, again he was non committal, yes your right he hasn't rang whereas before we spoke every day. I had decided to let it go last night and deleted all his contacts so I couldn't get in touch then he messaged me and I mistaking lay thought he wanted the relationship
Having just written this it's staring me in the face. I'm shocked though,after the way he was with me he seemed so genuine
I honestly would have to leave it,I'm afraid, Like Lweji said you have done all the running and he sounds like hes being polite and just doesn't want to be nasty to you.
If its meant to be it will be and his problem will become smaller than his need to have you in his life and he will get it sorted.
I don't really think you can do any more than you have and I think its up to him now.
Sorry I can only imagine how horrid this is for youx
He wasn't for real was he? Otherwise that incident wouldn't have resulted in this
Longhairedcat, this sounds incredibly hard work
The first months of a relationship should be carefree, and the building blocks you fall back in in the future. If he goes off and sulks at the first tricky situation that needs discussing, can you imagine down the line trying to sort out anything else?
No, you were not stupid.
You did what a good person would do. He's the one with the odd behaviour.
My best guess is that if you do finish now, you'll have had a lucky escape.
He was for real - just not the real you had imagined, I think that you have done all you can, you have recognised things that bother you very early on and not allowed yourself to get sucked in by his strange behaviour.
It is sad and hard when we really want someone to love us as we love them, but if they don't we need to cry and move to someone who does
I see what your saying dolly but I was prepared to view this somewhat differently from your average relationship problem because its such a sensitive subject for a man so I was willing to give some leeway.
I can see though that he will keep emailing me, he didn't need to do that this morning. It's almost like he's gone back to how our relationship started again
He is emailing, but he's not mentioning anything about what happened and actually mending things with you, is he?
I know it's disappointing but you didn't invest too much time thankfully. Can you imagine trying to choose cereal with this man in 20 years time? By email!?
Thank you, all of you. I just saw an email sent by him only 4 days ago saying what a lovely weekend we'd had how he'd enjoyed meeting my (adult) children and that he loved me and this was all he hoped for the rest of his life
No lewji he isn't mentioning it or mending it. This is what I don't understand. Why bother at all if he's not going to try to mend it?
He doesn't want to. He wants you to mend it for him, by brushing it off under the rug and not complain again.
If he really wants you and he really is processing everything, he will get back to you with a real conversation.
I'd definitely let it go for now and probably not even bother responding to any e-mails unless they address the issues. Then it's for you to decide how long you are prepared to wait.
I think I wil do just that, not reply to anything as I am making it too easy for him to keep me dangling whilst he either, finishes his sulk, finishes his punishment of me or plucks up courage to face me again. If he wants me he will chase me
Sounds like a good plan.
And the right attitude.
Wishing you all the best, whatever happens.
sadly I think that is all you can dox
Thank you cjel I envisage I will get an email or text questioning why I don't rely and that will be my opening to say I don't want that sort of relationship
yes i agree. perfect plan.
Thank you. I will just have to do my best to distract myself because I'm terribly impatient and tend to want what I want NOW. Hence the reason I wanted to force the issue
yes me too. and i would probably have forced the issue by now, but i am way too blunt for my own good.
I think I must be too, if I wasn't it would never have got to this
Why do they go to all the trouble?
Why all the game playing?
Maybe the game playing is what they want???
He was so keen, he looked after me for a week when I was ill, he told me he had really fallen for me, he told his family ie brothers and sisters about me and how happy he was, he asked me if I was keen on him because if I didn't want a relationship he didn't want to tell his (adult) children, but he told them. We both came off dating site together, his suggestion not mine but I was happy to do it. He met my (adult) children. He talked about things we could do in the future, places to go
Longhairedcat, I think that is very full on for something that had only been up and running for two months.
You like everything out there where you can see it (maybe this is why the full on nature of it doesn't strike you as odd?) and he is being all mysterious. This isn't going to change. You are going to keep on ferreting away to get to what is real about him and he is going to keep on hiding and refusing to communicate. Basically he is dangling enough of himself in front of you (literally...) to keep you interested and in order to know he has your full attention. But when you try to get close or get to the truth he walks away and lashes out at you into the bargain. He wants you to try to correct the mistakes he made about you (blaming, etc) and he will make accusations again in order to reel you in again next time something comes up. He also wants you to apologise and ask him to come back. This is game playing and the opposite of a match made in heaven.
Watch out for the tendency to want him to chase you. It will hurt if he doesn't, but suck it up. And do not fall for it if he does. I think he is quite a shallow person by the sound of things and he would only chase you to salvage his own pride and not because he likes you.
Also, watch out for very early declarations of falling for you, being in love, etc. such as happened here. Ask yourself why these statements had such a strong effect on you.
mathanxiety what you have said could be right, but on another level I find it hard to believe that's the real him. He was so unsure and nervous the night we met and just appeared to be low on confidence and genuinely wanting a relationship. Could I have got that so wrong? Yes I wanted one too but I am very sceptical and analyse everything so I'm not sure much would have got past me
I don't know you might be right. Things is when you hear someone say how pleased his family will be to see him happy because they've been worried about him it just seems so genuine
he picked up his phone and said" 2 missed calls" and grinned I just said " oh" and he was joking there weren't any calls. He just cuddled me. It might be me taking things to heart
No, it's not you "taking things to heart", it's him playing mind-fuck games.
This, plus the weird sex stuff - none IRL in two months but has ordered a sex toy would have me running for the hills, me.
Things is when you hear someone say how pleased his family will be to see him happy because they've been worried about him
Big red flag there!
His family expect some woman to come in and fix his life..... Means he can't fix his own...?
You cannot fix no-one else's life. Only live yours to the best of your ability. Anyone that comes along who has the same philosophy is a bonus.
There's some great books out there for people like you
and me i.e. Codependent No More by Melodie Beatty and Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood.
Well it doesn't necessarily mean that does it. I mean my family would like it if I found someone nice and was happy. I think that's only natural
Thanks I will look at those books though. Will do me some good x
He did a really good job on me didn't he. Must have boosted his ego no end. He really reeled me in. In a way he's worse than my EA ex because when he was full on at the start he did it in a persistent, flirty, jokey sort of way so you could take it as a bit of a laugh. But with this one he was deadly serious about me or so I thought, put me on a pedestal. Was acting like he'd found the love of his life. He must be having a good laugh at me now. Managed to win me over despite me being reluctant and sceptical
Yes, of course Longhairedcat, sorry if I offended you. Of course everyone wants everyone in their family to be happy. That is natural.
It's just not something that comes up in "normal" conversation to say so (in my mind).
Ah, sweetheart, don't be putting yourself down by thinking he's having a laugh at you.
I have been in EA and PA relationships too. It messes with your head. ((hugs))
No it's ok no offence taken. See what you mean about it coming up in normal conversation though. I didn't feel the need to say it to him
Yes it does mess with your head. I'm shocked I didn't see through this one though. He seemed the total opposite of the ex, probably that's why
But what the hell was all this about getting us both to come off dating site together? So much I don't understand
thats the trouble though isn't it? If it was understandable it wouldn't mess with your head
My exH also had low confidence. It doesn't make them necessarily better people, because they will need to boost it somehow.
However, this thread keeps me going back to the relationship I had after the divorce.
He never managed PIV, in 9 months. He blamed us not seeing each other enough, commented that had never happened with previous girlfriends and then reassured me that it wasn't because he didn't fancy me (it had never crossed my mind, tbh - but it didn't sit right with me - more like that was actually the reason). Significantly, although we talked about it, he never saw his gp or made plans to do so.
He was also eager to tell me that his family knew and were happy for him, that he had virtually given up on being with someone, but then I couldn't really establish if he had his last relationship 2 or 1 year before.
There were a few other issues, and I dumped him in the end.
At least it looks like you saved yourself some time.
A few things jump out to me reading this thread.
You were worried it was too soon to bring up such as sensitive issue as his lack of erection and that had been tactless to do so - but he ordered a sex toy without you expressly wanting one and have also been having sex for 4 weeks. In that context the lack of penetrative sex and trying to start a conversation about it is definitely not insensitive or too soon in my opinion.
Also, him declaring love after 8 weeks is ridiculous. I'm sorry but he doesn't know you! How on earth can he say he loves you? Did you feel pressure to say the same back?
And lastly, his reaction to bring up the ED or whatever. Any normal bloke would squirm, cough, go silent etc BUT what they would not do is throw a bit of a strop because you had brought it up. They might apologise profusely, look as miserable as sin etc but they would not seek to turn it around and make it something wrong with you.
It's so easy to see for someone else (not as easy when your own feelings are caught up) this bloke is weird at best and a knobhead emotional abuser in the early stages at worst. You really do deserve so much better. Dump him. Hold your head up high, do some stuff you enjoy, regain your enjoyment of singledom and then perhaps start having a look for a partner who is fun and that you can talk to properly about any difficulties.
I know I know it's all highly odd. Why then do I feel so badly hurt. I'm more hurt than when my 4 year relationship with EA ex ended. He was very brusque and to the point, no gentleness about him. Yet this time I thought I had found someone so different. I would never have fallen so quickly had he not said and done the things he did
bunchoffives yes I suppose I did feel pressure to say I loved him but I had certainly fallen for him which is why I wanted the sex more and more.
Also I think he did go very quiet when I mentioned the issue, and looked uncomfortable he didn't march straight off, we sat holding hands for quite a while. I think he was just trying to find reasons for why we hadn't been able to do it, me being ill then my period then not being alone in the house. He didn't directly blame me. Then he just went calmly and that was that
Happy to see he has found someone basically to save him is a really big red flag. A statement like that is designed to make you feel very special -- you have what it takes to be his knight-ess in shining armour. It is supposed to appeal to your instinct to nurture.
Were you attracted to the lack of confidence? Did some part of you like the idea of being the special one who made a silk purse out of this sow's ear?
Putting you on a pedestal is something you should run a mile from every time. It is the opposite of a positive.
Same goes for the very early commitment (getting off the dating site, declarations of love when as pp said he didn't even know you) -- huge red flag.
Longhairedcat, I think you could really do with exploring this relationship and the previous one in counselling. You really need to try to understand how you jumped in so far so fast here.
math I see what you are saying. Had a little laugh at " being the special one who made a silk purse out of this sows ear"
Yes your right I was attracted to the lack of confidence. Honestly I know I come across as maybe desperately wanting a relationship and not able to see red flags. But I think it's more a case of the things he said appealed to my sense of vanity, and whilst I did realise all the stuff could be red flags I chose to ignore and give the benefit of the doubt
A) because I liked him and we got on
B) because that connection and falling for someone quickly does sometimes happen and work out
I'm actually getting very angry now. How dare he say all those things act like we were in a relationship that he really wanted and enjoyed, meet my children, then fuck off at the first bit of trouble
Plus I asked him over Friday evening and he didn't accept but he didn't turn it down either. Then an email yesterday to say he was doing his running again and had been for a long run Friday evening til 8pm. Charming that's more important than seeing me after a row. Well it's his way of saying its off I guess. I am better off without him he's pathetic really
How much do you really know about this man Longhairedcat? Not much and not for that long in the scheme of things. Some men know all the things to say, but lack in actual experience of life
Perhaps he's more comfortable with an online dating/email relationship because he never has to really get involved then?
For what it's worth, the only man I have been with with ED told me pretty much straight away.
i don't think he's done all of this intentionally. i think he thought he'd somehow manage but this ed has got in the way. he can't face it and will do anything to avoid having to deal with it.
i do think that he felt genuine when he said all those things.
but i think he's made it clear that for whatever reason he can't face up to his problem. which really spells the end of your relationship as you've stated that you don't want a friendship with him.
all ok - you can now find someone who likes you AND can give you a good shag.
Longhairedcat, why did you ask him over on Friday?
Why do you want to prolong this?
Why do you keep on giving him opportunities to rub your nose in the face that he walked out on you?
I think he felt genuine when he said the things he said too, but they are part of a persona he has adopted - a persona that is his comfort zone. Feeling genuine doesn't mean he is ready for intimacy (emotional or physical). His schtick is 'man who wants someone else to let him get away with being a manchild (your term was spot on imo) wrt sex, communication style and doing all the taking from a relationship while you do all the giving'. As a pp said, introducing the sex toy without a Yes from you meant he could treat you as if you were invisible or not really there. It was all going to be about him.
Watch out for that sense of vanity and the urge to nurture. You are going to end up with losers if you allow that impulse to have free rein. When you start into a relationship do a spotcheck of your own feelings and keep on looking at the calendar. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Whirlwind stuff only happens in Mills and Boons.
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