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Please tell me, is this as bad as I think?

(185 Posts)

I really need advice, I just don't know what is normal anymore.

My DH works full time, often has to work til 1pm Saturday and sometimes Sunday too.

I was made redundant while on maternity leave with DD (who is now at school) and 3 years later had DS. DH's unpredictable hours would make it very difficult for me to work.

Last night we had an argument and he said he thinks I have used him to get what I want (kids and house) and now that I have it I've turned nasty.

His reasoning is that he doesn't get as much sex affection as he would like. My sex drive has nose-dived, I am always knackered, I do not find being a mother easy.

Every single time we have an argument he sneers get a job and says why don't we just get a divorce. The next morning it's like it never happened.

Is it normal for husbands or DP's to say things like this when you have an argument? I'm so tired of it. sad

I don't want to drip feed so I should say that around the time DD was born and for about a year after he was utterly vile to me. He used to say really horrible things. I threatened to leave and he promised to stop, which he did. But now I think maybe he hasn't stopped, maybe it was so bad back then that what he does now seems ok and not so bad?? <sigh>

I should also say that we have just put our house on the market, and after last night I'm wondering should I buy another house with this man?

FallingInLoveIsHardOnTheKnees Mon 21-Oct-13 09:53:55

It was normal for my ex, but he was an abusive shitbag so no, not normal. He's trying to upset you, threatening divorce and winding you up about something he knows will get to you.
No, don't buy another house with him. And next time you threaten to leave, mean it. If he thinks you will continue to put up with it he has no reason to stop.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Oct-13 09:57:13

Depressingly normal for abusive/bullying men to show their true colours with the arrival of the first DC.... sorry. Once you're dependent on them, they really let rip. As with all bullies, stand up to him. If that doesn't work, consider making an independent life for yourself and your DCs. It's very bad behaviour you're describing.

Thank you both for replying.

It is bad isn't it? We got together 9 years ago when I was 19 so I have never really known anything different.

I asked him how exactly had I used him, asked him to give me one example. He said he couldn't, but that was how it felt to him.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Oct-13 10:06:50

What you have to understand about controlling bullies (or emotionally abusive people) is that they are motivated by self and the world revolves around them. Other people are simply there to serve a purpose or be a means to an end. No matter if these other people get hurt... that's unimportant. So the bully will say or do whatever pops into their head to make sure they get what they want. He wants a submissive partner that is anxious to please so he has spent 9 years eroding your confidence and making you feel insecure. Why else would you be wondering if it was bad behaviour? You've been so well trained that you're doubting your own judgement.

Don't know what the age difference is between you but it is also depressingly common for an older man to choose a younger partner, knowing that they don't have the self-assurance or experience to see what they're up to.

Hellokitten Mon 21-Oct-13 10:09:11

Sounds like my husband. I walked out at the beginning of September. I couldn't live with his emotional abuse, nagging and bullying about sex, shouting and being horrible.
You don't have to put up with it.

kinkyfuckery Mon 21-Oct-13 10:09:21

It was perfectly 'normal' in my last serious relationship. But, like FallingInLove he was an abusive bastard and we are now divorced!

Unfortunately, it seems from these boards, that it can be normal. Not acceptable though! You are worth far more than that!

Definitely abusive. Get some legal advice and get rid. Men like this never improve because they are fundamentally incapable of seeing women as human beings.

He just called. Says he doesn't feel loved and if only I would give him more affection (sex) then he would be happy.

I said that he's allowed to be annoyed about a total lack of sex life, I know it's not ideal but that does not make it ok to talk to me like shit.

To be honest the reason I don't give him the affection he wants is because I can't forgive him for the things he said to me in the past. It was 4 years ago and I still cannot forgive. I feel like I don't want to open myself up to him because I don't know when he will turn nasty again.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Oct-13 10:24:02

There it is. The classic emotionally abusive line.... 'If you were a better person, I wouldn't have to treat you so badly' Women are trapped in crappy relationships every day as they desperately try to be that 'better person' and please their version of your DH. Newsflash, he would be exactly the same no matter how many times you had sex.

You met him when you were young and thus had no life experience behind you.

Its not only you who is being affected by his abusive behaviour, your children are picking up on all this as well and are learning from the two of you as to how relationships are conducted.

I would urge you to get legal advice with a view to divorcing such a man asap. Such entitled men never change, they always blame others for their own inherent ills. Such men also hate women, all women actually.

Womens Aid also can and will help you.

Oh god you're right. I have put off writing a post on here, I knew I would get honest advice and I don't think I was ready for it til now.

Here is another example of oddness. I recently lost 2 stone, started taking more care of my appearance and have felt much more confident, much happier with myself. I have started driving lessons which I put off for years.

All of my friends and family have commented that I look nice and seem more happy in myself. My friends said 'oh your H must be loving the new you' and I realised he hadn't said anything. I asked him if he had realised how I had changed and he said he hadn't noticed, he sees me everyday after all.

Jesus.

LegoCaltrops Mon 21-Oct-13 10:32:44

He sounds a lot like my XP. bullying & emotional blackmail about sex (my XP used to threaten to cheat/use prostitutes if he didn't get enough). Temper tantrums when he doesn't get his own way.

Affection goes both ways, you can't give it unless you feel affectionate towards someone, secure & loved. It sounds like you're the one that's expected to do all the work here, does he even realise how aggressive he sounds. What's in it for you, emotionally. Very little by the sound of it.

Faffalina Mon 21-Oct-13 10:33:14

Interested to see what you will do OP. I have the same situation - he says he's rude because of lack of affection, and I say the lack of affection is due to rude, angry, horrible behaviour...

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Oct-13 10:39:56

It's not a coincidence that you've found some confidence in your appearance and driving skills etc and he's ramping things up and accusing you of using him and 'turning nasty'. As I said earlier, this type of man wants an insecure, controllable partner. Of course he's noticed the changes in you. That's why he's trying to bring you back down.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 21-Oct-13 10:45:47

It's not fair to be the metaphorical cat H kicks if he's feeling hard done by. A lot of people work awkward hours and/or partial weekends but still regard home as a sanctuary and look forward to seeing their partner and family.

How is he with family finances since your salary stopped? Is he inclined to think of it as his money? Does he rub it in your face you are financially dependent on him?

If this next move is going to be a financial stretch it will only add to the pressure.
If by moving you'll isolate yourself ie move further away from friends and family please reconsider. Can you drive, have you found an area you're considering?

A new house, a new stick to beat you with. Picture the day after you move in. If you don't do something to his satisfaction, or mention feeling shattered or have your hands full he'll tell you you're never satisfied or ungrateful or don't know when you're well off.

If he loves you and wants a happy confident spouse by his side he's got a funny way of showing it. It's hard to switch on Affectionate and Sexy when you've got someone glowering at you or finding fault.

What kind of support network if any do you have? If the house is on the market you could look into two smaller properties. He's away so often, if you did separate he'd hardly be there to have the DCs over much.

If you were to say "I should be so lucky" next time he says why don't we just get a divorce, it would be interesting to hear his reaction.

That's exactly it faffalina, but then I think, why would I want to be affectionate to a man that I'm pretty sure massively dislikes me?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 21-Oct-13 10:50:23

So slow typing I see you have started driving lessons, sorry. It does sound like he is aware you are wanting to get free of the box he puts you in.

Wellwobbly Mon 21-Oct-13 10:52:11

He just called. Says he doesn't feel loved and if only I would give him more affection (sex) then he would be happy.

- and bullying someone and making them feel like shit is the way to go about that?

Time for Relate or other counselling I think. Give him a chance to grow up learn how to be kinder and softer.

He transfers about £150 a month to my account, which I know is not a small amount of money, that is mine to do what I want with. If I need more for any reason he will usually give it to me, but will make it very clear that he isn't impressed.

A lot of times when we have argued before bed he will announce right I'm going to sleep now, SOME of us have got work in the morning

We wouldn't be moving far due to DD's school, I wouldn't be isolated. I have only just started driving lessons, my instructor thinks I could pass by the end of February next year.

There is no equity in the house. I would probably have to try and claim housing benefit on a rented property, luckily my mum works with a lot of landlords so would be able to help me out.

I have a group of lovely, very supportive friends, I know they would be behind me 100%, I haven't told them any of this yet, tho they know about the nastiness when DD was small but think that it's all forgotten about. I have put off telling them about the more recent stuff as I know there would be no going back then IYSWIM.

He would not consider counselling wellwobbly if I managed to get him there then I would sit in silence or say 'I don't know' to every question.

*he

WallyBantersJunkBox Mon 21-Oct-13 11:07:11

He sounds like a petulant child. I'd remind him that sexually, acting like a petulant child is a huge turn off.

I'd expect a toddler to have their nose put out of joint by a new baby, but it sounds as if he has been sulking since your DD moved in to the attention zone.

Can you start looking for a job and some childcare?

Uurgh. He has just called me again, all darlings and I love you's. Saying he is just grumpy and tired from work.I said I'd heard it all before and I don't really care why he is vile anymore! it's not my problem why he is like that.

I have someone coming to view my house in a couple of hours, I have to do loads of tidying. I just want to lie on the sofa.

House viewers have gone, seems to have gone ok. Someone is coming back for a second viewing tomorrow so that's good news.

I've been trying to call my Mum. She's not answering.

Feckssake Mon 21-Oct-13 13:18:43

Anybody who uses SpringtimeForHitler as a username is far too interesting to waste their time on someone who really dislikes them. Come on, OP, live up to the username! You know he's an arse, you know he dislikes you, why on earth would you stick it for another day?

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 21-Oct-13 13:37:14

I wouldn't suggest couples counselling at all. Its not suggested as a good thing if one partner is showing signs of abusive behaviour - which your partner definitely is.

Its seems simplistic but sometimes LTB is the best way forward.

I will speak to him tonight once the kids are in bed.

The time for trying to work it out and talk about it has passed I think.

I really don't think I can be arsed to be honest.

Still he is calling me saying he will 'try to be nicer'. You shouldn't have to try to be nice to your wife and mother of your kids should you?

If I am going to do this then I need to present it as a done deal, I'm done, end of. Otherwise he will spend all night trying to hug me and talk me round. Still trying to get through to my Mum.

(Feckssake you made me grin )

Twinklestein Mon 21-Oct-13 14:05:23

Someone who has to try not to be a wanker is a wanker.

Thank you, by the way to everyone who replied, it's been really helpful.

It's strange doing the school run and sorting washing, all the while knowing my life ( and the kids ) is going to change so suddenly.

Hellokitten Mon 21-Oct-13 17:24:09

I told my abusive husband on the Monday night that I was leaving. I walked out Tuesday morning with nothing but the kids and the clothes on my back. He has done his damnedest to make my life hell since then, but I am honestly happier and the kids are both happier too.

Good luck

memorylapse Mon 21-Oct-13 18:45:05

Sadly it seems the norm in abusive relationships.

Over the years my H ignored the fact that I was dangerously ill, told me no one else would want me (that old chestnut) and escalated into dragging me down the hall by my hair after I challenged him about his affair.
When my marraige finally broke down because of his affair and after he came home from work screaming abuse at me for no reason-I snapped and rang WA the next day, they said he may not have been physically violent but he was emotionally abusive and that was still abuse, They helped me move and 18 months later me and the kids are very happy for the first time in years.

He is Mr nice guy, trying to get back in my good books all the time, the OW dumped him and he has lost control, but every so often I see a snippet of nastiness, when he doesnt get his own way and Im very relieved my marraige is over, the OW did a favour.
I get on with him but will never reconcile. Life is too short to spend with someone that treats you like that.
You deserve to be loved, respected and cherished.
Do not waste any more time investing in this awful man

Wellwobbly Mon 21-Oct-13 21:34:42

Good luck OP, tell us what happens.

Interesting that your friends don't like him.

saggyhairyarse Mon 21-Oct-13 21:38:23

Thats the exact same load of shite my EH used to lay on me. Course, when i offered to get an evening job, he would back track as that would involve looking after his own kids and losing valuable drinking time.

I held out til we actually moved as we were in a small village with the kids at school in a town about 5 miles away and I knew I wouldn't get a mortgage again. Moved, kicked his sorry arse to the curb, took on the mortgage and have never looked back.

I told him when he got home. I was going to tell him after kids where in bed but he asked me if I was still in a mood hmm so I said id had enough. He started with saying he wouldn't be nasty any more blah blah and I said sorry, it's too late. He then announced he wouldn't be moving out (his Dad lives alone and wouldn't have a problem taking him in.)

He doesn't believe me, I can tell. I think when he realises I'm serious he will be nasty but I'm prepared for that.

I managed to speak to my mum who has had some bad relationships in the past, and asked for complete honesty of what she thought I should do. She said I should get out and she will help me if that's what I want to do.

ElephantsEye Mon 21-Oct-13 22:19:31

Congratulations on making your decision!

RandomMess Mon 21-Oct-13 22:25:08

Onwards and upwards, so very glad your mum will help you, even if you have a property you should be eligible to claim Housing benefit for a years whilst it is being sold.

PomCuter Mon 21-Oct-13 22:28:41

Well done OP. Recommend you get yourself sorted to move out ASAP if you think he won't - once he realises you're serious he's likely to turn nasty (judging by what you've said of his past behaviour). You, and the kids, are better off away if/when he does turn nasty. My XP changed once he realised I was serious about leaving & I'm just glad we didn't have kids to think about aswell.

memorylapse Mon 21-Oct-13 23:04:35

I would also advise making plans to maybe at least go somewhere else until he is out of the house..I had to stay in my house for a month before I could move into another property and those few weeks were hell..during that time I became very frightened, he threatened to take the children, followed me round the house telling me what a bitch I was etc..I was so glad to get out.

Hellokitten Tue 22-Oct-13 08:13:39

Well done for making the decision. You can PM me if you want to chat. I'd agree that you might want to leave if he won't, I'm two months out and my ex is getting nastier each day. Don't let him make you wobble, these men are experts at arousing feelings of self doubt, responsibility and guilt. Don't engage with him, don't let him do that to you. You are doing the right thing.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 22-Oct-13 08:19:59

Your mum sounds fantastic. Do stay safe now that you've told him it's over. Bullies can turn very nasty when they think they've lost. Good luck

mammadiggingdeep Tue 22-Oct-13 08:49:04

Good luck op.
you sound so strong and together!

Hope it all goes well x

whoselifeisitanyway Tue 22-Oct-13 09:00:44

You are not going to feel warmth and affection for him when he is so horrible to you. My ex was always angry with me and only perked up half an hour before trying it on. Then he wondered why I didn't want more sex. I don't see how you will resolve this if he is so fundamentally horrible. You are not going to change your feelings towards him.

He called me this morning talking as if nothing had happened. I reminded him of our conversation yesterday and he seemed surprised. Said 'I didn't think you where actually serious' hmm

I made it clear that I am serious and the begging and tears started.

I asked why it had taken me saying I wanted to split up for him to actually listen to my problems? He didn't have an answer.

I'm not going to fall for it, I've heard it all before. He said he didn't want to lose me, I said 'well you should have treated me better then shouldn't you'.

I've asked one if my friends to come round for a cuppa this afternoon, she could tell something was up when she saw me at school this morning. I suppose I will tell her.

My Mum is going to speak to landlords that have properties near Dds school, she says she will be my guarantor (sp?) if I need one.

Also says she will make sure I can carry on with my driving lessons.

I love my mum.

LamaDrama Tue 22-Oct-13 10:50:42

Your Mum sounds wonderful.

Is there anything you could give her for safe keeping?
Passports, Jewellery, Bank cards, Children's photos?

Im not scaremongering, but its amazing what these men will use as emotional tools to hurt you, when they know these things are precious to you.

I hid my bank book in the back of a cupboard and forgot where I had put it blush

You will be fine, Its worth it when you look back OP thanks

Xenadog Tue 22-Oct-13 10:56:43

Springtime I think you have been incredibly brave and strong in standing up to this bully. I have no doubt things will be tough for a while but once you are free of this controlling, manipulative piece of detritus you will wonder why it took you so long. I so wish you well.

Your mum sounds wonderful too - let friends and family know what's going on so they can support you.

TeaJunky Tue 22-Oct-13 15:10:13

Op I really don't think you should make any rash decisions.

There are many many bitter women on mumsnet, all talking from their own bad experiences. What you've written is just a snapshot of a man and a life together. Don't throw it all away with a few posts from random strangers.
Think about your situation and then make your own decision. Only you know how bad it is or if it's salvageable.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Oct-13 18:35:08

OP is old enough to make her own mind up don't you think TeaJunky? 9 years of him and starting this thread less than 48 hours' ago, I don't think MNers are that persuasive tbh.

Hope this topic hasn't raised any painful issues for you.

TeaJunky Tue 22-Oct-13 20:12:09

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Coffeenowplease Tue 22-Oct-13 23:11:28

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 08:41:46

The op knows it's pretty bad. She only posted here for confirmation.

It's the OP's OH who keeps talking of separating. Well, once too many times.

This (definitely not bitter smile ) hag wouldn't be surprised if OP's OH is posting on MN.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 08:45:58

And from someone who's been there, their pleas mean nothing.

Even if you consider going back, see how he behaves first. He should be an adult now, owning up to what he did and understanding why you want to leave.

Take care.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 23-Oct-13 08:49:38

So um, TeaJunky, do you think only a bitter woman would have a problem with the kind of behaviour the OP described?

I agree that you should move as much of value that you can to your mums house, and get the ball rolling.

By the way, there are not many bitter hags on MN. Only women with a lot of experience of good and bad relationship and can tell a good one from a bad one.

Any poster advising to stay put with an abusive man speaks out of her arse and with her marbles down the drain. wink

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 09:26:33

@Teajunky the thread is entitled 'is this as bad as I think?' The OP has been thinking it's bad since the arrival of her DD which was at least five years ago if the child is school age. Her mum thinks it's bad, her friend thinks it's bad. When someone is at the stage where they are asking anonymous internet hags something they've already worked out, they're not looking to have their mind changed... they're simply looking for reassurance.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 23-Oct-13 09:30:48

But Quint, if she doesn't stay put she will be throwing it all away! "It" being, as far as I can see, £150 a month. That's a fairly poor payoff for being abused and insulted several hours a day IMO, but each to their own.

Pfftttt! Annie! grin

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 09:53:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 09:57:36

It's a message board.... The information is sketchy and the answers are instant. What are you expecting, long essays on the pros and cons of relationship management? hmm

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 09:59:11

Yes exactly exactly! The information is SKETCHY.

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 10:02:18

And since some posts are nothing less than an 'essay', I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be a little more balanced.

And since your all such EXPERTS on relationships on here, why not teach people about relationship management?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 10:08:02

Why don't you teach it? MN is a bastion of free speech. As long as you don't insult anyone and can cope with others disagreeing with your opinion, you're fully entitled to say whatever you like. Play the ball, not the man...

Speak for yourself Teajunky, you may be old, you may be a hag. wink
But I am not. I am also happily married. It means I can use my husband and our relationship as a good measure against what other posters experience. I am putting myself into the OPs shoes and thinking what I would do if MY husband was behaving in similar ways. I see what I think is wrong in their relationship on the basis of what is good about mine. If anybody were to call me something, it would be "smug married" rather than bitter.

Why on earth should any woman put up with such arguments, and be made to feel so low? Clearly he knows what he is doing, as he is able to stop it now and then. He could chose to stop for good, yet he isnt. He only modifies his behaviour when he thinks that OP has had enough, and only for a short while. The rest of the time he is grinding her down, threatening her that she should get a job, when he knows that she full well cant, as long as HE is working the shifts he does. Why taunt her like this? Why sneer at her? Why tease her with advising her to "just divorce" him if she does not like his behaviour? He is ASKING her to divorce her because he sure as hell is not going to stop being nasty to her. Why would she put up with that, Teajunky?

Anniegetyourgun Wed 23-Oct-13 10:10:12

Excuse me, I am a bitter middle-aged hag.

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 10:19:54

Annie, middle-aged hags don't count.
You have to be proper old.wink

Quint, hmmmm. Now that you put it like that, he does sound like an utter nob. And get lost, I'm obviously too immature to be a hag yet grin

TurnipCake Wed 23-Oct-13 10:30:36

How are you today, OP? Definitely talk to supportive friends and your mum sounds wonderful.

My abusive ex did the sobbing and pleading, he actually wrapped himself around my ankles. I would have pitied him had it not been years of vile abuse he subjected me to.

Do be aware your husband can and probably will turn nasty, the point where they realise the partner really will leave is when abusers up the ante. Make sure you stay safe x

Wellwobbly Wed 23-Oct-13 10:31:14

By the way, Teajunky, I thought your advice to that poor married woman whose husband told her he was God, was absolutely brilliant. Well done! I think of everyone, you got through her utter confusion a bit.

I am neither bitter nor a hag.

I left my abusive ex 20 years ago before there was a any mumsnet or internet. I had no-one to ask if my relationship was normal so I went along thinking it was, until one day I woke up and decided that the worst of it wasn't.

The things that were not 'the worst of it' was the emotional and financial abuse (even though I earned more than him and no kids!!) but I didn't realise that these were abuse. Thought we just didn't get on, and that he was a bit tight fisted. Having no one to bounce all this off made me think it was normal, and tainted my view of relationships for a long time.

With hindsight I NEEDED a bunch of internet strangers to jump up shouting 'leave the bastard' and offering me virtual support in how to make that scary leap into the unkown.

OP you have done the hardest thing which is facing up to how bad things are and deciding to do something about it.

He will cry and beg (mine threatened suicide) but these are all about him getting you back under his control, and, not having to face the world and say 'my wife left me'. He says he won't move out because he doesn't think you will move out with the kids. Let him sit in a house with no equity. In fact let him sell it and buy something else just in his name and you have a fresh start.

Good luck and don't be swayed by all the emotional blackmail that is about to be unleashed, followed quickly by anger.

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 10:39:27

Oh. Thanks wellwobbly! brew

I need to start behaving myself now.

People are recognising me grin

Coffeenowplease Wed 23-Oct-13 10:53:33

Er. Why was I deleted ? I didnt make a personal attack. Or shout troll.

I will go back and read all your lovely replies in a moment, but I really need some advice.

He will not accept my decision. Constant tears (from him) all I have heard from the last 24 hours is

I don't want this to happen
I don't want to split up
There's still a chance
Etc etc.

He will not listen to me.

Now he has decided we will talk tonight, and tell me how he will be better, he's got a plan.
He is texting me ideas for where we can take the kids for a day out on Sunday, will I come, the kids will love it.

I have not swayed at all, but I haven't been cruel or shouted, have just calmly explained that it's over, we can still be good parents.

It's just hard to see someone so upset, even though it's the right decision. I don't want to make anyone cry.

Coffeenowplease Wed 23-Oct-13 10:59:43

Honestly I would not respond. Dont be drawn. When he comes home just repeat that as far as you are concerned it is over.

But someone may have better advice in a few.

The only reason he is crying and you aren't is because you have already done all yours. Don't be taken in by the tears. you are doing the right thing.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 11:01:01

Quint, hmmmm. Now that you put it like that, he does sound like an utter nob.

Did you even bother to read the OP and the other posts?
It's not only women who are beaten up, or whose husbands call themselves God, that deserve sympathy or that need to LTB.

Certainly posts should not be read lightly just to say "don't throw it all away" when you haven't even read them properly and start calling other posters names and start banter. I enjoy a good banter, but not when there is someone in pain who started a difficult thread about leaving her husband or not.

TurnipCake Wed 23-Oct-13 11:03:32

He is desperate and will pull at your heartstrings. He would say he'd swim the channel if he thought he was in with a chance. This is panic on his part - you've walked, won't be swayed, he no longer has the status quo of bullying you and he is coming to realise this.

You do not have to talk to him tonight. You don't owe him anything.

He's upset now - think about how upset you've been over the years, think about those heartsink moments where something else has happened. You deserve to be happy, remember that.

Wellwobbly Wed 23-Oct-13 11:05:41

See ACTIONS not manipulations.

When he:

accepts he is a dick and verbally admits that,
states clearly in all the ways he has been a dick
books himself in to counselling
physically leaves whilst
he works hard on growing the f up and becoming a real man,

may be you can get back together in the future.
But all the above is HARD WORK, involves him giving up power and see you as a human being deserving of respect and consideration,

so don't be holding your breath.

Lundy Bancroft says there is hope for change and often it takes leaving for them to realise that the cost of getting away with it has now become too high.
But he says they often leave it to this point and have to see the wife is very firm in her resolve to be single for this to happen.

Please don't waver Hitler! He brought this entirely on himself. You are not being horrible, you are applying consequences for his behaviour.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 11:05:48

I think you need to tell him that you'll perhaps consider going back if he is capable of respecting you, and really changing over a considerable amount of time.
See if he keeps it up.

Honestly, you have already threatened to leave before and although the worst behaviour seemed to have stopped, he was still emotionally abusing you.
He still is. His pleas and not listening to you are emotional blackmail. Nothing else.

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 11:15:28

Very true lweji.

Sorry op.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 11:15:57

Under pressure, someone who has relied on manipulation to get what they want will run through the entire card ranging from pretending it's not happening, to promising to change, to threats, to sob-stories..... they'll throw everything and the kitchen sink. If you can detach slightly - which I think you're starting to do - it's quite interesting to watch the process in action. Plus, if you've decided you won't be swayed, these cynical antics can actually serve to strengthen your resolve.

Tip... don't play to his timetable but take control. If he 'decides' you'll talk tonight, for example, make it a different night or say you'll get back to him. Anything he suggests from now on, change some element of it. Good luck

TeaJunky Wed 23-Oct-13 11:19:07

Op, I agree with wellwobbly.

If his actions show to you that he has indeed changed, can be normal and a good person and treat you well - and if you still want him - then you can decide. But I believe that can only happen if you have some distance between you first and IF he does indeed change permenantly for the better.

MerryMarigold Wed 23-Oct-13 11:25:04

I would use his current repentant attitude to do some marriage counselling, possibly whilst you are living apart. He needs some strategies for how to communicate his needs properly without resorting to insults. You need to work through what went on 4 years ago and let it go, otherwise there is no future, however much he changes. He also needs to acknowledge all the times he's really hurt you, and be properly sorry. Not sorry that it means he will lose what he loves, but sorry that he hurt you.

IMO

SanityClause Wed 23-Oct-13 11:25:41

Has he ever worried about making you cry, Springtime?

Thought not.

"It's just hard to see someone so upset"

For you it is, not for him.

Which is why he has seen you upset rather a lot, and his reaction to you being upset is to sneer at you and taunt you with divorce.

Now that HE is upset, what does he do? Plead.
And you feel it hard.
Dont. Think about how he treats you when YOU are upset, and maybe you can harden your resolve.

I suggest you stick to your plan. Start decluttering, move important documents out, and look for somewhere to rent that does not include him. You dont have to tell him every step of the way what you are doing. Keep your cards close to your chest.

MerryMarigold Wed 23-Oct-13 11:26:48

He also possibly needs some anger management. It's hard to read based on sketchy accounts, but it could be that he is just emotionally immature and needs some help growing up. Whether you love him enough to wait for that, and whether he will acknowledge his need, are 2 different things.

"He will not accept my decision."

He does not have to accept it. It is your decision. HE cant change it.

You just continue getting ready to move.

You in turn, dont have to accept that he does not accept it. You just go on, and move on.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 11:29:54

@MerryMarigold. Joint marriage counselling is not recommended where there is emotional abuse going on. Emotional abusers are very sly and manipulative people - as demonstrated in this man's reaction. Because they do not think they are in the wrong and have no intention of changing, they often use counselling sessions as a source of information to use as ammunition and/or a place to make more empty promises. Not as a platform for improvement.

I did say to him, what about all the times I have cried.

Something happened a few weeks ago regarding a very close family member, I was distraught, called him sobbing down the phone. He listened to me for a few moments then asked why was I so upset? The family member involved had always been an arsehole. Then announced he was busy and had to go. He wasn't at work, he was just out doing his hobby.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 23-Oct-13 11:32:50

Ooh... cold fish.

It just proves he has no regards for you. No empathy.

Think about how cold he is to you when you are upset, and let that be your guiding star as to how to respond to him.

I asked him when he got back, weren't you concerned that your wife was at home in a such a state??! He just kept saying he didn't understand why I was so upset and I knew he was doing his hobby didn't i?

hmm Not very nice and supportive at all.

NotDead Wed 23-Oct-13 11:43:08

It sounds like he is having horrible thoughts of insecurity - almost paranoia. As these coincide with periods where you can't support him emotionally, it shows he is obviously very reliant on your approval. In arguments, it feels as though you withdraw all your approval for him and he is lashing out - not saying its acceptable, just that there might be an understanding route through this.

When you both most need emotional support from each other you argue perhaps instead of breaking the cycle?

I am sure his advisers, if he has any, would be saying 'can't she see all you do for her, working all the time for money with no appreciation' - similarly far too onesided to help.

I suggest in the 'warm' periods, some problem-solving as to why the nuclear strike happens, (I suspect this is because he can feel that you are about to detonate yours) and some honesty about why these feelings are there. IT might be too difficult, but I still think its worth a try.

Xenadog Wed 23-Oct-13 11:48:33

Springtime you are holding the cards now, do not give them away. He is repentant as you are not marching to his tune any longer. I would suspect he is trying and saying anything to keep you there for him and not because he truly is worried about what he is losing.

This is the start of your new life without him, keep looking forwards and make your life now on your terms and not his. X

I just want to thank you all again for taking the time to reply to me. I really appreciate it.

Teajunky I would never break my family up just because some internet strangers told me to, promise grin when you have lived with a man like this the constant drip,drip,drip of comments and nastiness becomes normal. I have constantly questioned myself, is it me? I had an unsettled childhood so don't really have an example of a good relationship to hold mine up against if you see what I mean?

So......
HE'S not listening
HE'S not accepting your decision
HE wants a meeting
HE doesn't want it to end

Do you see a pattern here? And do you know what? You are expected to accept this because it is what HE wants!

Well not anymore. This is now all about what YOU want.
He isn't listening to YOU
He doesn't respect YOUR decision
He won't let YOU end this.

Tough - it isn't up to him. You do NOT need his permission to end this relationship.

Is there anyway your mum can be there when he arrives to have a chat tell you how it's gonna be?

Tell him you do NOT want to talk about it.
You need some space and he needs to move out.
If he won't - can you go to your mums for a couple of days? Is she close enough to the school? Can she help with school run if not?

This is HIM - this is who HE is - YOU cannot fix him.
You have to stop feeling sorry for him. This all part of the script!

Keep strong and follow through or things will not improve as he will have got away with it again!

MerryMarigold Wed 23-Oct-13 11:52:33

Cogito, I haven't seen anything that says he is sly or manipulative (he may be but haven't seen that), or that he would go to counselling with no desire to change. He sounds emotionally immature (but emotional), lacking in self control (saying hurtful things on the spur of the moment) and lacking in an ability to communicate his needs (he is allowed to have needs, but needs to communicate a lot better). He also works too much which is going to have adverse reaction any the closeness in any marriage. He should work less and spend more time at home, but that would involve a change in lifestyle with less money. Has the OP communicated (in the past) that she would want this, and be happy with a lower income?

I don't know him. I don't know many awful men or perfect men either, just my fairly average dh. We have to work very hard at our marriage because we both have a tendency to those things above. We have both been verbally abusive to each other in the past and said the kind of things this dh has said, but a) it is mutual (does that make it better?) and b) we have both felt the need to change and get help with being married.

I think some men (and women) are genuinely awful, and people need to LTB. I think others (dare I say, most) need help to change dysfunctional behaviour rather than jacking it all in, which has huge consequences. One of the consequences is that they don't change (either of them) and just bring it to a new relationship, new kids etc. etc. The cycle goes on. The difficulty with the internet is you can't hear tones of voice that things were said in, you don't know what was said or implied before the awful thing was said.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 11:57:08

It's hard to read based on sketchy accounts, but it could be that he is just emotionally immature and needs some help growing up. Whether you love him enough to wait for that, and whether he will acknowledge his need, are 2 different things.

A few things here.

It's not about whether she loves him enough or not. It could also be said that he doesn't love her enough to treat her with respect.

It's not her responsibility to help him grow up emotionally. It is his and his alone. All she could possibly do would be to support him in his growth, IF he asked for help.

In any case, Springtime, cannot be expected to wait forever, or put up with abuse just because her OH has issues that hurt her.

Over the years I have tried desperately to understand why he acts like this? What can i do to make it better? More housework? More sex? Thinking I have made my bed so I should lie in it and be grateful I have a house and food in the cupboards.

I have asked him why on many occasions, mostly he says he doesn't know, occasionally he will say I have always known how he is and don't expect him to change now. Sometimes he tells me I know where the door is.

Now I have told him I have had enough he suddenly thinks he has all the answers, maybe he does but how can I possibly believe a word that he says now? Maybe he would be lovely and try to be better but in 6 months he could go back to normal. I don't think I can take that risk. I don't think it is my place to be his psychiatrist, which is what I have tried to be for years. I have 2 children, I don't feel I have the energy to try and manage his moods anymore.

In the past I have noticed that the washing basket is downstairs and I have forgotten to put the washing away because I've been distracted by the kids. I panicked and dropped what I was doing to run upstairs and put it all away before he got back. Not because he will shout, but because of the sighing and tutting.

I think you are finally realizing that there is NOTHING you can do, he is choosing this behaviour because it is who he is.

Reprint Wed 23-Oct-13 12:29:12

Sometimes it takes a long long time to wake up to the reality of your life, and realise that your situation is a long way from what should be a relaxed and happy life.

No-one can tell you what to do, but you do know - deep down - whether or not you are fundamentally unhappy, and whether the way you are treated is a long way from OK. Only you know that.
I always say that there is one criteria to apply, in making these decisions - regardless of any external input. Do you genuinely feel that anything, ANYTHING, would be preferable to the way you live now?
Personally, I would have lived in a tent with nothing, rather than stay.
Because anything would have been better than my life as it was.

For what it is worth, OP, I was devastated that my family was finally breaking up - giving my DCs a secure family was a fundamental driver. They were adults when I finally found my courage ........ they have since told me they wished I had done it when they were small !!!!!!
Never, ever stay for the sake of the children. They thrive best with a happy confident Mum.

Lweji Wed 23-Oct-13 12:29:49

He has had plenty of time to be the man he now claims he can be.
You are so right.

I got the same from my exH. He had always been the one wanting to leave, until I told him he could go. He turned violent very quickly. And then pleading, threatening suicide, when I did told him we were finished and when I did leave.

Do be careful.
This is the most dangerous time, when he feels he is losing the control he has had over you.
IMO, the sooner you leave the better.

wordyBird Wed 23-Oct-13 13:38:56

I think Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why does he do that?' was so named because so many women asked the same question, Springtime. It makes an enlightening read if you can get hold of a copy.

Stick to your intentions, but as Lweji says, be careful.

More of the same today. Has already called me once and cried down the phone for ten minutes.

I think his plan is to wear me down.

Lweji Thu 24-Oct-13 09:48:49

Could you not answer the phone?
Presumably you're still in the same house, so no need for pestering during the day.

Or cut it short saying the time for talks is well over.

And all that pestering worries me, TBH. You are better placed to judge, but I do think it's best if you leave as soon as you can and do not tell him when. Just go or get someone else to be with you.

I wouldn't answer the phone.
Try not to engage unless you have to.
You know what the script will be now and he will play it out and play it out.
You do NOT have to listen.
Start taking control back.
I must be really hard for you.
What are plans now for the coming weeks?

My mum says the landlords she knows don't have any available houses that are close enough to DD's school sad

My mums house is half an hours drive away so can't stay there, would be hard to get DD to school.

As long as we are under the same roof he will think there is a chance, I really need to find something quickly.

Is it half term for you next week?
Could you at least get some space away and stay with your mum next week?
Might be an option, not sure though.
Go to your local housing authority and see what they can do.
Explain the situation so they make you a priority.
Someone else may have some better options for you.
Sorry you can't get out easily right now.
It will all fall into place soon though.

Lweji Thu 24-Oct-13 10:04:50

It might be worth for a couple of weeks. Just to make sure you are both safe and you don't have someone pestering you.

I remember the time when I was leaving exH. He had already been violent, although more of the ego bruising, but the atmosphere and the his pressure were awful.

See how it goes, but I'd make sure I had some things already packed (important things already at your mother's if you can).

I ended up leaving with my hand bag and DS because of his threats.

Yours doesn't seem to be there yet, but I don't wish it on anyone.

Lweji Thu 24-Oct-13 10:06:10

My writing in the previous post is awful too... blush

I was sucked into all the 'I'll change' crap. I had nowhere to go straight away so I decided to let HIM walk on eggshells for a couple of weeks and see how HE liked it. TBH those two weeks was my final deciding factor because it revolted me to see him being all false nice and grovelling after the years of abuse.

One of his abuses was financial, and suddenly he was trying to give me money for things, buying me gifts. But he only had the cash to do that because he'd saved all his own salary while mine was used for all the outgoings! I told him that if we were to start again, he would have to transfer half the value of all the outgoings into my account so that we could have complete financial equality and that everything would be shared from now on.

It lasted two weeks before his behaviour lapsed and he whined about me driving 2 miles more than him that week when he had filled up the car.

I was gone shortly after that, and the sum he had transferred to me was the deposit on my next home.

OP you could stay where you are for a few weeks, rather than rush into some unsuitable accom. As long as you keep planning for your escpae that's the main thing. If I were you I would tell him when you have his 'talk' exactly what you are unhappy about, and tell him that if you are to continue as a couple you need complete equality of finances and that you should have full access to all FAMILY money, not a very stingy £150 per month. Acccess to all his salary in a joint account. And watch his face because he will backpedal over that one and then even if all the rest of his behaviour miraculously improves, you will still have your reason for leaving, that he did not allow you access to family finances.

Lweji Thu 24-Oct-13 10:49:14

Good point.

You can give him a chance to change, but you don't have to take him back even if he changes.

At the very least it may take him off your back a bit.

See what happens.

Mine was all "but after a month we have to be ok again". That was an immediate fail. But I didn't tell him and he was on better behaviour, at least until he drank again.

Still, don't let the thought of getting ideal accommodation prevent you from leaving if it gets dangerous in any way.
I's better to have 4-6 months renting a less than desirable place and move then, than taking risks.

EllieInAnyFuckinRoom Thu 24-Oct-13 11:30:44

Wow OP I had to reply because what you are going through is a lot like what is happening here with me. Our Hs sound so similar in their arseholeishness!

H will also not accept its over. He cries and begs says its not. He has decided he needs to see a therapist for his self pitying and self destructive behaviour (because how he has treated me the last three years can't possibly be his fault).

The only way to get him to agree to stay at his DMs was after I persuaded him I would talk about our future after six weeks of living apart and him having therapy.

Could you persuade him you will try again after a short separation to get him out of the house?

I am going to try and persuade him to go to his dads, I'm not sure that he will go, but it's worth a try I suppose.

ellie I have had the begging too. Suddenly he has decided he knows all the answers, after 5 years. Only now when he can see that I'm serious hmm

Jux Thu 24-Oct-13 18:21:13

Better an hour driving to and from school twice a day, than living with him, thoughh, surely?

I can't drive Jux, I have just started my lessons.

Lweji Thu 24-Oct-13 19:17:47

The begging lasts a long time, usually interspersed with the threats (emotional and/or physical).
Brace yourself.

But do try to find other landlords anyway.

Jux Thu 24-Oct-13 21:35:08

Springtime, I'm sorry! I did read that but obviously my brain wasn't working - ridiculous, as I don't drive either. There may be a school bus though. Worth trying to find out. DD has lots of fun on her journeys to and from school; it's an opportunity to mix with pupils she wouldn't have met otherwise.

Delilahlilah Fri 25-Oct-13 00:48:47

Spring, I think you need to work this from knowing how he thinks. Try asking him to go to his dad's to give you some space, if he refuses, point out that he is not respecting you and he is shooting himself in the foot. How can you consider things being different when he won't even do one thing you have asked? Hopefully he will do as you ask.
Please be careful if you continue under the same roof as the tears will dry up soon,and they are usually followed by anger and indignation.
Good for you taking steps to make your life better. I hope your new start is good for you, and you get a house very soon.

teaselweasel Fri 25-Oct-13 07:12:00

I spent 7 years with a selfish emotional retard. I felt like as I was walking on eggshells around him. I'm glad I didn't breed with him and I left once my salary was high enough to buy a house.

Please consider leaving this man, he won't change and once you decide to leave,he'll beg and grovel but he won't change. I regret wasting 7 of the best years of my life with this arse (28-35). You will never get those years back. I know plenty of single parent friends who are happy to have left their exes despite the hardships they face. Would you get support from your family with regards to childcare eric. Are the grandparents living nearby?

teaselweasel Fri 25-Oct-13 07:21:44

The older we get, the older it gets to find another partner. Don't throw away your youth on him. You are worth a lot more.

My mum has found a house, she's offered to put up nearly £1000 for deposits etc. Jesus,

Lweji Fri 25-Oct-13 20:02:06

Go girl. smile

Your mother clearly thinks you need to get out. Listen to her.

cloudskitchen Fri 25-Oct-13 22:31:43

Just delurking to say your mum sounds like a star. I hope you get out of that situation soon..

Jux Fri 25-Oct-13 23:01:44

Brilliant! How soon can you get in?

Sorry, couldn't get back to the thread last night.

He saw a text from my mum come up on my phone, asked me what it was about. I thought I may as well be honest as I will have to tell him eventually.

I was sitting on the sofa and he came over, put his head in my lap and cried for ages. sad

He keeps repeating the same things over and over again, he's sorry, he's figured out why he is like this now, he can change etc etc. in the end I lost my temper a bit and shouted why now?!

I feel sad but so angry, I have cried so many times and he didn't take any notice. Only now when he realises I'm not prepared to be his doormat anymore, he suddenly has it all figured out. why?

I need to call and make an appointment to see the house, but it's half term now so I will have my children with me. How am I going to explain it to DD (5)?

I was searching through old threads last night to find threads with OPs similar to me, and so many people have stories of giving it one last go and then their H's going back to how they were 3,4,5 months down the line.

Also a lot of interesting posts I could relate to, with posters saying that even if their DH had changed it was too late because they didn't have it in them to try anymore, too much water under the bridge.

cloudskitchen Sat 26-Oct-13 09:27:52

why now? because you have taken back the control and reversed the roles. I'm sure if you stayed it would slowly go back to his terms

Phineyj Sat 26-Oct-13 09:43:05

He has been behaving like your Dad (not your Dad, but someone's horrible dad who shouts at them and makes them grovel for money) and now he is behaving like a child. UGH! The drama must be very tiring. Can you pretend it is happening on Eastenders instead and detach while you get the new house sorted? To be honest, your 5 year old is probably a bit scared of him too - just tell her he's got to work a lot for the moment?

devonsmummy Sat 26-Oct-13 09:44:40

Sounds very like my H
Marking place to come back later
Hope you & kids are ok

FrightRider Sat 26-Oct-13 09:45:28

can i give you a more positive story?

Dh & I were in a similar situation to you. I wasn't giving him enough affection (tired, kids...etc) and he was feeling rejected and getting nasty.

it took me being SO angry during one argument that i wanted to hit him to realise i was DONE, i was SO fucking DONE.

i packed mine and the kids bag while he was at work, and then left the next morning while he was asleep. I left a note telling him i needed space and we were with family. We didn't speak for two weeks.

We met, i told him it was over and that i wasn't prepared to live with his abuse of me any longer.

Then the begging started. He'd change, he was sorry, he didn't want to lose us..etc...etc.

I was adamant i was done, it was over, but he took the initiative, he persuaded me to go to 'separation' counselling, agreed to go to anger management and slowly over several sessions the counselor got me and him to open up to each other properly about our feelings and he admitted he never realised, even though i was telling him, just how horrible he was making me feel.

We agreed to try again because he pointed out this was the first time he was actually listening to me and he wanted a chance to prove he could change, but i put criteria on it. I would live away/apart for a minimum of 6 months, we would spend the weekends together. We would rebuild the relationship from the ground up, friendship first. He had to attend AM and any reversion to his abusive behaviour would be an immediate END of the relationship.

That was 2.5yrs ago. We're back together and things are much better, tbh, we're stronger than we ever were, we can talk to each other and solve problems, we're happy.

It CAN work, it CAN be fixed, but only if you BOTH want to and put the work in. But if you really feel its too much 'water under the bridge' then make your stand and do what you need to do for you.

harrap Sat 26-Oct-13 10:06:49

From my experience people can behave like arseholes and can change for the better.

Your DH may change his ways but only when he really understands what he stands to lose.

I don't think leaving is throwing it all away and may even be the saving of your marriage, but in the meantime it will be the saving of you.

Best of luck.

wordyBird Sat 26-Oct-13 11:01:03

It's likely that he hasn't just figured it all out, but knew what he was doing all along. He knew he was upsetting you and sneering at you. That may be hard to hear. But this kind of behaviour tends to come from ingrained attitudes about you, and your role in his life.

Every single time we have an argument he sneers get a job and says why don't we just get a divorce. The next morning it's like it never happened.

He has got away with this, and the other behaviour, to date. He's crying because he thinks he's behaved perfectly reasonably, that everything would be OK if you gave him what he wanted and he 'tried' to be nicer. He's also crying because he's feeling hurt this time, and not you. He's hurt because you've had enough, but how things were actually suited him (except for the sex..)

You are fab and brave and strong.

Look at your little ones and think to yourself what a fabulous mother you are by extricating yourself and more importantly your kids from this fecked up relationship which will shape the way they form relationships in the future.

Good luck.

RandomMess Sat 26-Oct-13 11:18:06

You can move out and consider whether or not you want to consider trying counselling together to see if you relationship can be any different.

Jux Sat 26-Oct-13 11:49:18

He is crying because he has a glimpse of the life he may have to live and he doesn't like it; because things are no longer going his way; because you have rejected him; because he has lost control; because he is about to lose his favourite toys; there are so many reasons it is impossible to name them all. Psychologically, it is soooooo complicated.

What you need to do is what you are doing. You need space and time. You need to remove the children from a situation which gives them damaging role models about relationships.

Perhaps, one day, in the pretty far future, you will decide that actually he has changed enough, learnt enough about himself, worked hard enough on his attitudes and underlying beliefs, that he has become the good man that you thought he was, and then you could make a go of it.

But, that might never happen. I have heard that anger management and other perp programmes don't have a high long-terrm success rate sad. Please, anyone who know, correct me if I'm wrong (would love to be, and I really would like to know).

So, get into your new home, get into your new life, and above all, enjoy making your own decisions and taking charge of yourself. Live in happiness and freedom. thanks

rabbitlady Sat 26-Oct-13 14:39:29

he is crying to manipulate you. that's all.

Morning, have finally got some peace and quiet, DH has taken the kids to his Dads for the day.

I have made an appointment to view the house on Tuesday. It looks lovely on a Rightmove but is unfurnished. I am worrying a bit about where I'm going to get furniture from but I'm sure it will be ok. There is an oven there but no fridge freezer or washing machine. I am going to register on freecycle I think.

Once I have the tenancy I will be able to claim housing benefit, income support etc, so I'm hoping it will be ok.

I'm still happy with my decision, just worried about DD, I will be taking her from a house that has everything to somewhere totally empty. <sigh>

DH seems to have accepted what's happening for the moment, he apologised yesterday for how he had acted and said he understood why I felt enough is enough. I'm hoping he will be reasonable and let me take one of the sofas and some of the kitchen stuff.

RandomMess Sun 27-Oct-13 11:34:29

Well remember it is your joint marital home and you are entitled to the very minimum of half of it really...

I would take the opportunity today to have a good sort out of household stuff and pack away things that you will need that won't leave him without at all IYSWIM - so divide up pans, crockery, utensils, towels, bedding etc.

neiljames77 Sun 27-Oct-13 11:40:31

I would imagine if you got yourself a job and anything else that gives you more independence, he'd get insecure and start levelling all kinds of accusations against you.

killpeppa Sun 27-Oct-13 12:02:12

Honestly this could be my life you just described!

the sneers of 'if you cant do your job at home then get a real job'
the divorce threats.
Everything just rings a bell with me.

AND NO ITS NOT NORMAL!

You deserve to have someone who loves you, who wants to help you, who wants to do nice things for you and you do nice things back.

My stbEX ended up cheating because 2 months after having DS2 he didnt get enough 'attention' either.

I found strength in all these amazing mumsnetters and their advice and strength and told him I want a separation.

For the first time in i cant remember how long I am smiling again, having fun with the kids and not on the verge of tears. I am calm cool and collected.

Make yourself happy & dont stay for the sake of the kids because they would rather be happy with a single mummy than one that is miserable because she stayed with daddy.

I have developed a blister underneath my wedding ring, do you think it's a sign? grin

I have just re-read the whole thread. I agree Randommess, it's all half mine really isn't it? I'm going to make a list of what I will need I think.

I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself, I haven't even signed the tenancy yet, though the landlord seemed fine with it.

It's so strange, on the one hand I am terrified of being on my own with the children! but I have moments of pure happiness when I imagine me and my kids together! and being able to lock the door behind me. smile

wordyBird Sun 27-Oct-13 16:21:56

This is lovely to read
I have moments of pure happiness when I imagine me and my kids together!
... and yes, it's a sign :-)

However, take care now. You have had the tears and promises to change, and more high pressure tactics are likely to follow. You know him, we don't, but I have to say this anyway: don't underestimate him.

HollaAtMeBaby Sun 27-Oct-13 17:27:40

You are doing great. Have you had legal advice about leaving the house though? Please make sure you get all that you and the DCs are entitled to.

Lweji Mon 28-Oct-13 08:21:55

just worried about DD, I will be taking her from a house that has everything to somewhere totally empty.

Children don't care that much about possessions.
She'll have a happier you.

Short conversation with do last night, I told him I will be taking things from the house. He said he had no problem with that, I could take one of the sofas and the kids beds, anything i needed. I'm aware that his good will might not last, but we shall see.

Had a really good driving lesson yesterday afternoon, so am in a good mood.

Still worrying about how I am going to explain going to view the house tomorrow to 5yo DD.

HowlingTrap Mon 28-Oct-13 08:30:50

What would happen if you called his bluff,.

the next morning when he 'pretends it hasn't happened'

killpeppa Mon 28-Oct-13 08:35:16

that's good he's being agreeable on that.

I'd just tell her that mummy and her are looking for a new house because they don't want to live together anymore & yous are going to get a special house. that yous both love her very much & see will still see daddy all the time.

Having a bad moment. My DD just looked over at me and said 'Mummy, why do you always look sad?' I made as joke of it and said it was just the way my face looks.smile

I think my heart just broke a little bit.

Lweji Mon 28-Oct-13 12:26:38

If you can do it before he has the time to really think about it, and realise you're not bluffing, the better.

Your DD will be happy if you are happy too, see? smile

Footle Mon 28-Oct-13 15:29:20

Springtime, better to agree that you are feeling sad. It's very important that she knows to trust her natural reactions about your feelings. Explain a bit , and admit to the sadness, and then have a cuddle and cheer up !

We have had someone make a very good offer on the house today.

H is on his way back. He sounded disappointed to be honest.

The crying and wailing has stopped, we are back to 'if only you where more affectionate we would be fine'.

Someone please send me some strength sad

cloudskitchen Thu 31-Oct-13 17:05:28

Strength beaming its way. Stay strong and know you are doing the right thing. You have 2 choices (well more really but keeping it very simple) call it all off and stay stuck in the same situation for 1, 2, 5 years or more or grit your teeth, ride it out and give yourself a shot at happiness x

Twinklestein Thu 31-Oct-13 17:06:34

'if only you where more affectionate we would be fine'

It's impossible to feel affection for an arsehole.

Tell him what you said upthread:

the reason I don't give him the affection he wants is because I can't forgive him for the things he said to me in the past. It was 4 years ago and I still cannot forgive. I feel like I don't want to open myself up to him because I don't know when he will turn nasty again.

wordyBird Thu 31-Oct-13 17:09:56

Here's some strength flowers wine

He means - if you gave him everything he wanted, put up with his sneering, and had sex when he wanted, HE would be fine. Not We.

House offer sounds promising...

Just read this from the start - sending you lots of strength spring

Remember, he is a dick and will always be a dick. It is not your fault, no matter how many times he says it. Keep strong, if you can get that house, do it and soon

Jux Thu 31-Oct-13 17:36:34

Strength in spades coming your way, Spring.

If he hadn't treated you like a second class citizen, then you would feel affection for him. He did the damage.

sisterofmercy Thu 31-Oct-13 17:57:38

You've got a lot of strength. I admire you and your mum. Hang in there and practice the 'stuck record' technique when he tries to persuade you to do things you don't want.

I think you deserve better. And actually, he isn't very happy either, is he, so he needs to be set free.

(I had two decent relationships so whilst I am a bitteroldhag - it's not because of my ex-menfolk who are now my lovely friends. )

Grumpasaurus Thu 31-Oct-13 18:45:45

I've just read through this thread, and can only echo the other comments. He is abusive. He is giving you no reason to like him, so somehow, you have to get to a place of strength inside yourself where you no longer care whether he likes you. I was in an abusive relationship with an older man for about three years; it's amazing the clarity that I have gained about how bad the situation really was, once I finally gathered the strength to leave him. I'm now very happily married, to someone who treats me the way I deserve to be treated (and more!), and I only wish I had left the bastard ex sooner.

lazarusb Thu 31-Oct-13 19:22:45

It didn't take him long to get back to blaming you did it? I left my ex when ds1 was 5 and never looked back. He tried every trick in the book too. He hated that I'd made the decision and he could see there was no going back. Your dd will get used to a new house and different things sooner than you think. When you paint your living room or bedroom your favourite colour and smile at it, she'll see that and be happy that her mummy is smiling again. It's the little things that will make a difference to you both.

I have put a post in lone parents but I'm going to copy it here if any of you could advise me, I feel desperate.

I have recently split from my husband, though we are still in the same house.

We recently put the house on the market, I spoke to a benefits advisor and she said that if I could prove the house was on the market then I could claim housing benefit on a house I have found via a private landlord.

My H has now decided to take the house off the market.

If I sign the house over to him and he gives me half the equity (not much, about £1500) will I still be able to claim housing benefit? I'm worried they will say I have made myself intentionally homeless. If I can prove that I have legally signed the house over and no longer have any interest in it do you think I can still claim.

I'm terrified I'm going to be trapped here with him otherwise.

Bump

Lweji Sat 02-Nov-13 12:27:18

I'd think selling to someone else or your part to your husband should be the same thing.

Ask the benefits people.

chocoreturns Sat 02-Nov-13 12:40:24

stay strong and get advice from Womens Aid if you can't get through to Shelter. They will be able to support you emotionally as well as practically and their helpline is open all weekend (although you may need to try a few times). It took me months to call them after I split from the boys dad, due to his affair, EA, FA and general twattishness. As soon as I did I realised it didn't matter that he hadn't hit me. It was bad enough and so is your situation. You are being controlled and persuaded to stay near him against your will and they can help you get out.

STRENGTH coming to you!! XXX

wordyBird Sat 02-Nov-13 13:36:25

Get some good legal advice before thinking about a step like this.
This is the family home, isn't it?

lazarusb Sat 02-Nov-13 15:37:33

Very quickly - don't sign over your rights in the family home, no matter how little equity there is. Speak to a solicitor asap or Citizens Advice. Can you get access to a crisis loan if you need one?

I think (but check!) that you can still move out & get HB (my SIL did) but any settlement you get at some point when you divorce will be taken into account.

However, I do think WA and/or Shelter should be your first point of contact for advice. Good luck.

somersethouse Sat 02-Nov-13 16:47:54

Good Lord springtime, I have been reading this thread today... your original post is so similar to my husband it is incredible.

My husband has moved out of our rented accomodation thankfully, it is such a relief. (Only because he had to due to a previous incident) Still tries to control me, still financially abusive etc etc.

But, I am posting now to say your husband has realised he has lost, that you are going so has taken your JOINT HOME OFF THE MARKET, to prevent you from leaving. It is pure, pure EA behaviour, yet again.
Please don't waver. This is a dreadful thing he has done.

You sound strong and great. I also have a DD 5 and did my separation mainly for her. Gradually, after only 6 weeks, I have so much more energy, I was totally sapped before, and am a happy mama again.

Again, as I have learned from cogito, but did not realise at the time, the abuse is worse when you have a child. As soon as I gave birth, like you, 5 years ago, the insults and criticisms were appalling. I was running round after my husband and desparate to make hiim happy while looking after a newborn in a foreign country. I was truly trapped and he had certainly upped the ante. It was the worst time of my life.

I think I would have ended up in a mental institution had I not threatened legal action and booted him out recently. Things never change, I have given chance after chance.

Also, you will get the odd Friday or Saturday night off now! He will have to pull his weight with the children... see how he likes that. Courage OP, courage, you can get through this.

Sending love from Spain xx Seek legal advice regarding your house as others have said and do it now.

something2say Sat 02-Nov-13 17:28:53

And stop speaking to him, eating with him, washing etc. can you spend weekends away?

Hi everyone, just a small update smile

The house is mine, they have taken it off Rightmove and everything grin

Just waiting for references and paperwork, will hopefully be in there in the next two weeks!

Have told all my friends and they were shocked and upset that I had been so upset and they hadn't had a clue. They have all rallied round and have offered washing machines, fridges, saucepans etc, and have also offered to help me move.

H has agreed to sell the house, although he has decided that I won't possibly be able to cope without him, and has very kindly offered to 'take you back in 2 months when you realise you can't cope' hmm he is also trying to find a house very close to mine so he can 'keep an eye' on me.

He is currently away for a week so I am enjoying the peace and quiet.

I still haven't wavered in my decision, though I am dreading telling DD, I know I am making the right decision.

The way he has acted in the past week, patronising me, saying how will I cope, that I'm being daft, all he has ever done is work hard, it just proves he has no respect for me, and actually thinks I'm useless.

I know that whatever happens, I have good friends and family. He can't hurt me anymore, he can't get under my skin, me and my children will be OK. smile

RandomMess Sun 10-Nov-13 10:02:39

What a complete arse he is! A controlling one at that as he wants to keep an eye on you, he's probably convinced himself that you've found another man already as you couldn't possibly be able to live and cope on your own angry

Onwards and upwards x

expatinscotland Sun 10-Nov-13 10:11:57

Good on you!

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sun 10-Nov-13 10:26:37

Just a thought - but how much is the rent v the mortgage?

You don't have much equity in the house, so you wouldn't owe your DH anything - would you not be better off keeping the house?

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sun 10-Nov-13 10:28:26

I also meant to say - well done you brew flowers I read the whole thread with my heart in my mouth just hoping you had found the courage to ignore his pitiful whining and you have smile

As for him living near-by to 'keep an eye on you' hmm Idiot.

I would have liked to keep the house chipping, but I haven't worked since DD was born so would never have been able to pay the mortgage. Am going to have to claim housing benefit for a while, but I'm going to take the opportunity to retrain so hopefully I won't be on benefits for too long smile

Oh and he made me laugh last week, says that as he has to be work really early he will be unable to drop DD at school if she stays there during the week. No problem, I said, he could just drop her at mine on his way to work.

He had a better idea, " you can just stay at mine the night before and go straight from there"

<boggle>

Jux Sun 10-Nov-13 10:51:59

Oh he is a twat grin

Lweji Sun 10-Nov-13 10:59:37

I could be wrong, but can't you get housing benefit to cover the interest on the mortgage?
Check it out.

Anyway, I'm happy for you. smile
If you do rent elsewhere make sure it's as far from his new place as possible. wink

TheOpposibleThumb Sun 10-Nov-13 11:29:32

So happy for you, you will do more than cope, you will FLOURISH!!!!!

Hi, not sure if people are still following this thread, but thought I would update smile

Please excuse typos, I'm on my phone.

I moved into my new house a couple of weeks ago! Me and my DC are very, very happy.

On moving day my friends and family rallied together for me and fetched furniture, put it all together for me and filled my cupboards with food smile I walked around feeling like I was going to throw up. The day after I moved in I had a MASSIVE panic, thinking oh my god what have I done. I think I was quite hard nosed about everything so it was only afterwards that it really sunk in, what I had done.

My Mum talked me through it, and within a couple of days when I had had time to process what happened I felt great!

My ex has reverted back to type, which proves I made the right decision. He has tried everything to make me go back but I think has finally given up.

He cannot BELIEVE that I haven't turned up on his doorstep begging to go back, he is genuinely shocked.

I told the kids and they are fine.DD loves going to see Daddy at the weekends for a sleepover, DS is too young to understand really.

I am truly, honestly, the happiest I have ever been grin I don't have much money, but I don't care. I have no one to answer to, no one to criticise me at all.

The relationship I've got with my kids has drastically improved as I am so much more relaxed, not constantly stressing about the latest argument.

Only now that I'm out if that relationship can I see how truly unhappy I was, so depressed and snappy with the kids.

I want to thank every single person who replied to my thread for supporting me.

I have trouble explaining to people why I left him, as it was all such low-level bullshit over years and years. I recently read a post on the relationship board (I'm sorry I don't remember the posters name) they said that

Everybody has the right to not be in a relationship if they choose not to be

I'm not going to try and explain myself to people anymore, I don't need to justify it to anyone. I don't miss him at all.

melanie58 Fri 13-Dec-13 00:03:34

Congratulations. So glad it's worked out well for you - and it will continue to get better, I have no doubt. Well done.

Donkeylovesmarzipanandmincepie Fri 13-Dec-13 00:30:46

I am so glad he didn't wear you down. Well done OP.

wordyBird Fri 13-Dec-13 00:35:09

What a wonderful update!
It's so good to hear that you feel the happiest you've ever been smile
You're right that you don't need to justify it to anyone. You were in the marriage, they weren't: only you know what it was like.
Bravo springtime. Here's to the future. wine

Itstartshere Fri 13-Dec-13 10:20:00

Good for you, a huge well done. Onwards and upwards, may you have lots of happy times in your house. And Merry Christmas.

What a manipulative, nasty arse your ex sounds.

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