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I've invited the OW for dinner - mistake?

(461 Posts)
youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:05:49

Brief background, altho I have posted about this before - my husband has become good friends with a woman at work. They work in different offices in different parts of country but for same company. He trained her etc which is how they met and they meet up with work eveyr month or so. They share a hobby in common and always go to lunch or for drinks when she's across at his office. She's a lot younger than him and is really stunning looking. She is married with children (as are we!) I've been very jealous of her and anxious about how much hubby seems to like her. He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat. He said he likes her tons and they are good friends. I've snooped a lot and never found anything dodge but all the chat seems a bit flirty to me not because they are explicity flirting but because they so clearly like each other and bounce mails back and forth. Not texts as far as I can see although hubs says they chat on the phone at work a bit.

Anyway, I've met her a few times at social events but I've kind of snubbed her and not been very friendly. confused Hubby mentioned that she and her husband and kids are coming to our area during half term to see friends and I've invited them all for dinner. I'm doing it as I want to see her and hubby together and I also want to get to know her. Feel if I can make it all 'above board' with us all friendly together, it will take any excitement out of it for them, or mamke it less likely to develop into something.

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I worry I'm facilitating something I should be shutting down. Should I cancel?

Thesouthernwindisblowing Sat 19-Oct-13 22:10:01

No advice but his behaviour is vomit inducing.

YoureBeingADick Sat 19-Oct-13 22:10:03

umm- if they are having an affair you are basically giving them their thrills for free by having her there. they'll get a giggly fucking kick out of having to pretend to be all non flirty with each other and will steal secret whispers in the hallway, brushing past each other just a bit too close and dodgy glances across the table. meanwhile you will be going through pure hell trying to catch a look or a snigger or body language.

why do this to yourself?

confront him! don't bring her into your home. don't torture yourself.

CaptainSweatPants Sat 19-Oct-13 22:13:44

Someone whose having an affair doesn't consult his wife on what to wear surely

It sounds to me like a crush & I think by making the friendship more of a couple thing is a good idea

BuggerLumpsAnnoyed Sat 19-Oct-13 22:15:48

I dont think you can call her OW. She is your DH's friend. I do personally think having her for dinner is a mistake while you think there is something going on as you might find it a bit much.

ImperialBlether Sat 19-Oct-13 22:16:51

I'd be tempted to get her husband in the kitchen and ask him whether their relationship pisses him off, too.

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 22:17:07

The idea would bring me out in hives I'm afraid.

If it's an innocent friendship, in her shoes I'd have no interest at all visiting the home of a woman who'd snubbed me when I'd met her previously and I think it would be glaringly obvious why the invitation has been issued.

If there's something going on and the two of them get a buzz from having this secret right in front of your noses, I wouldn't want to facilitate that in any way, shape or form.

As ever with these things, it's not your role to nip an affair in the bud. That's your husband's job. Nothing you personally do can prevent something happening.

Have you talked to your husband about your fears?

ImperialBlether Sat 19-Oct-13 22:17:14

You would be surprised, Captain.

Troubledjo Sat 19-Oct-13 22:17:25

I think you're doing exactly the right thing. It sounds like they have a genuine friendship and your husband is probably just excited that you are making an effort to meet her. I am sure if he (and she) were thinking of doing anything untoward this is the last thing they would want.
You know the old saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer...

LynetteScavo Sat 19-Oct-13 22:17:41

This will end with you "incidentally" tipping red win in her lap.

LynetteScavo Sat 19-Oct-13 22:18:13

or rather accidentally - damn spell check. grin

MajesticWhine Sat 19-Oct-13 22:21:32

I think it's a good move. I don't like the sound of this relationship, but by bringing it into your family home, he will have to face up to his feelings, if he does have any, and start behaving more appropriately.

DistanceCall Sat 19-Oct-13 22:21:37

I think it's a good idea to invite them over for dinner to make things more normal. But I think you should also talk to your husband and tell him how you feel: that you are feeling jealous, insecure, etc.

Men and women can be friends, even to the point of verging on having a crush. It can be completely harmless. But I really think you should talk to him.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:22:40

I've been very open with hubby about how I feel about her and the situation and he has been equally 'open' about liking her a lot and their friendship (although he did say he doesn't think she's 'that' pretty when she looks like a freakin model!) He was annoyed with me for not being friendly and was pleased that I wanted to invite her and get to know her. He thinks this means I am past my 'jealousy problem'. He has always insisted that they are friends and the problem is all my own jealousy/insecurity. I just can't see why a man his age with older children is such close friends with a much younger, very attractive woman. You're not telling me he's never thought about it, especially as she's hot and so clever, similar to him etc.

Sorry if OW is the wrong term. In my head she is the OW. sad

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 19-Oct-13 22:22:52

If he e-mails her several times a day, then you don't need to meet her to know that more of his emotional energy is being invested in his "friendship" with her than in his marriage to you.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:23:48

Do you think I'm mad? Do you think it's normal for a married man to be good friends with a much younger woman?

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:24:35

He's a good husband by the way - very loving and attentive and we do a lot together and rarely fight. I don't feel like he's checked out or anything

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 19-Oct-13 22:24:41

And clearly this friendship is not "harmless".

It is harming you and it is harming your marriage.

If he wasn't so attached to her giving up a friendship that was obviously causing so many problems would not be a big deal.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 19-Oct-13 22:26:35

"Do you think it's normal for a married man to be good friends with a much younger woman?"

I don't think it's normal for a married man to carry on an obvious flirtation with a much younger colleague right under his wife's nose.

Or at least, I don't think it's normal in a marriage that has any chance of lasting.

Which of his other good friends that he has made in the previous 40-odd years he has been alive does he e-mail several times a day for general chit-chat?

ImperialBlether Sat 19-Oct-13 22:26:41

What Playfellows said.

I suppose the test would be if he was out for the day without either of you, who would get more texts?

WipsGlitter Sat 19-Oct-13 22:28:56

I'm very, very good friends with my male boss. We have a right laugh. He said he's happier coming into work and its partly because of me.

We are both in happy relationships.

It's more about you than him.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:29:27

He doesn't text (me or her) as far as I know.

Do you think it is an obvious flirtation? It's never personal stuff - they talk about stuff they've read, what they're up to, stuff in the news and so on. It's never feelings or emotions or anything sexual at all.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sat 19-Oct-13 22:31:04

Yeah, I think it's an obvious flirtation.

He must have other good friends.

How many times a day does he e-mail them?

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:33:16

He doesn't e-mail other friends much, but then his other friends are men and so they don't really do that. Having snooped (I know, I know sad ) I think she instigates a lot of it and he likes the attention.

ImperialBlether Sat 19-Oct-13 22:34:40

Not a lot of difference between emailing and texting, OP - both can be received on your phone.

DistanceCall Sat 19-Oct-13 22:34:50

I am 37, and have male friends who are more than 20 years older than me (I work in a field that is male-dominated). No doubt there is some flirting sometimes, and they may enjoy talking to a much younger woman because it makes them feel younger and attractive or something like that. But it's completely innocent - I have never been propositioned in any way, and they are happy in their marriages, as far as I can tell.

However, it would piss me off if he paid me less attention than he pays to this friend. You need to tell him. But it's not about his having a female friends; it about his paying you more attention.

marriedinwhiteisback Sat 19-Oct-13 22:38:00

Oh I'd have her to the lunch and I'd make it crystal clear that your DH is your DH and you value that relationship and if you ever suspected someone was undermining it you'd have their guts for garters. And I'd get her husband to agree to agree with you. I'd be quite blatant about it I think.

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 22:38:23

See, the thing I'd be suspicious about would be if he wasn't at least honest about the risk this could present. I also hate it when men (or women for that matter) feel they have to denigrate a woman's looks. I mean, is he saying he'd feel differently if he thought she was 'that pretty'? hmm.

It's hardly front-page news that new, consuming friendships are a bit intoxicating and sometimes make old connections look unappealing, nor is it unusual for friendships like this to morph into affairs.

So it's the faux naivety and innocence that would really stick in my craw.

Very disingenuous.

I think if this were me I'd share my concerns, refuse to accept my feelings were based on irrational jealousy and make it quite clear that if this developed into anything inappropriate, he would lose me. That makes the choices quite clear and puts the ball very firmly in his court.

I wouldn't think it was my job to police him or protect him from danger. That's down to him and if he screws up, he'll have to live with the consequences.

casacastille Sat 19-Oct-13 22:43:09

He sounds like a lovesick teen, bouncing around asking you (his mum?!) what shirt he should wear for a first date.

Even if hasn't crossed any actual boundaries yet as far as you know (no dodgy content in emails, no private meetings), you are suspicious for a reason - they are clearly checking each other out and making each other feel good with their "we've got so much in common" chats, which is really not good for two married people.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:47:14

I do think he has a crush. I don't think he's having an affair.

I don't know what to do. She's got the looks, the stuff in common, the job in common, they see each other regularly.

He's not technically doing anything wrong, but he likes her and I don't want him to!

When I've had a go about it (last time was when he was sitting with me in the evening and laughed out loud at something she'd said in an e-mail then started to read it to me and I freaked out. He was not at all accepting about how I felt, pointing out that I was also on my laptop IMing a female friend and had told him bits and bobs we were chatting about.

I think the truth is if she were a man I wouldn't be feeling any of this. It's because she's female and I can't see how she could not be a threat, but it's probably just me being stupid and jealous as they aren't actually doing anything wrong. sad

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 22:49:02

Sorry got sidetracked there, was going to say that when I have had a go at him about her, he will not give an inch. He says he likes her, she's great and he really enjoys her company and conversation, but that he loves me and is committed and faithful to me and has never given me any cause to doubt that.

Going to sound mad but I almost want him to make an inappropriate comment to her that I find in an e-mail so I can pinpoint something?!

WipsGlitter Sat 19-Oct-13 22:50:03

Again, this is more about you. All other women are not "threats". It's really sad you think that.

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 22:55:29

I don't think you are being stupid or unreasonably jealous. Maybe a bit daft thinking you can ward this off on your own wink and also because it's entirely the wrong approach IMO.

He should be the one guarding his own fidelity, not you.

Fears are only irrational if there's a very small risk of something happening. I'd say there's a fairly big risk of something happening and it's not as if affairs are a rarity, are they?

Have you actually asked him how he intends to guard against this going too far? What measures and boundaries he'll put in place?

Or is he one of these fools who thinks as he's happily married, nothing could possibly happen with anyone else, so he'll blunder through and then get involved and claim he didn't know how the hell it happened?

Twinklestein Sat 19-Oct-13 22:57:58

Did your husband want your teenage daughter to go & stay with this woman? Was that you?

It sounds like an embarrassing midlife crush on a much younger married woman who has no interest in him like that. He's probably excited that she even talks to him.

This event is potentially stressful for you, but it may show that this woman is really into her husband & is not interested in your husband like that at all.

I have a lot of male friends but I don't talk to any of them in a way that would concern their partners or mine.

casacastille Sat 19-Oct-13 22:59:00

Wips She would be a lot less of a threat if this was an old, established friendship that had no sexual undertones. But it's not. She is a new acquaintance, and a younger attractive woman who is spending a lot of her time engaging OP's husband in feel-good chat.

Of course he's loving it, who wouldn't?! If they were single, he'd probably be asking her out.

This isn't about the OP, it's about how much time her H is suddenly investing in a woman that he is clearly interested in.

OP, Listen to Leavenheath

jynier Sat 19-Oct-13 22:59:06

Hi, OP! How is your love life? A partner having an affair usually goes off sex...

I think you are doing the right thing.

So far, I am guessing he has met her in a work related setting. Seeing her and her husband and children may give a more realistic picture.

I hope her husband is a stunner. Then at least you can play his game and gush about him afterwards. sad

I also think it might be worth asking her husband if HE is ok with the amount of correspondence between his wife and your husband.

"A partner having an affair usually goes off sex..."

Sometimes the opposite happens....

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 23:01:31

That's a myth apparently. Some do, some don't. Some people want more sex because their appetite has been re-awakened.

cerealqueen Sat 19-Oct-13 23:02:55

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?!

^ This^ I would not want to see my husband like this around another woman. Her husband won't like it either.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:03:05

I've asked him how he's going to make sure it won't cross any lines and he says he finds this insulting and says that 'it just wont because I would never go there' and 'Neither of us think about the other one like that'. I just don't believe men are friends with young, attractive women and it doesn't cross their mind?! Especially as my hubby is a normal, hot blooded male who makes plenty of comments about attractive celebs etc and I've always been fine with that.

Our sex life is ok. Not swinging from the light fittings or anything but regular, no change to it, and he's keen.

Bogeyface Sat 19-Oct-13 23:04:43

Based purely on this thread, I think he has a massive crush but doesnt want to admit it.

I doubt that it is reciprocated as she would be unlikely to accept an invitation to a couple date if it was (although I concede it is possibly, albeit unlikely).

If I was you I would have the dinner date and let him embarrass himself, as he will. Then have "the conversation" pointing out just how ridiculous he looked, how pissed off her husband was and how embarrassed she was. Assuming it does go that way of course, but I would bet a weeks wages that it does.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:06:58

I've actually seen her husband thanks to stalking her through hubby's Facebook (yes I'm pathetic, I know) and he's not in her league. He has the benefit of being a LOT younger than my husband, but I think my husband is more attractive by far. She has young children though, who are also coming with them.

Interestingly, I've asked hubby how her hubby feels about the relationship and he says he's fine with it and that he gets on well with the hubby too.

Huby must have mentioned them coming here about 30 times so far since the invite was made.

Twinklestein Sat 19-Oct-13 23:08:46

That's disingenuous he's already crossed the line into a) focusing so much attention on her & b) offending you.

It doesn't have to be an affair to be 'too far'.

I think it's perfectly possible that she genuinely doesn't think of him like that. I'm hoping that's what you might find out at the dinner.

WipsGlitter Sat 19-Oct-13 23:08:56

I'm sorry but you can't just tar everyone with the same brush. My friendship with my boss is new. There are NO sexual undertones. I'm ok looking as is he but we're happy in our relationships but it is just nice to go into work and have a laugh.

Bogeyface Sat 19-Oct-13 23:09:47

He is not in her league in what way? Looks?

What about personality, shared values, SOH, sexual compatibility? They wouldnt have children if they didnt share all of the above.

Let him make a dick of himelf. It was what cured me of a major crush, and fuck me was that excrutiating blush

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:10:19

I think the dinner will be quite normal actually. My hubby has great company manners and I think will be warm and hospitable to them and sweet to the children and my boys are really good in company too. I'll be lurking more in the background I expect, although I do want to get a chance to chat to her and find out what's so bloody special about her, and also I want to observe the dynamic between her and my husband (although I think he'll rein it in in this scenario). I can't see it being awkward for anyone but me (and after hubby will say 'see? aren't they nice people?'

Oh maybe they are. Maybe I'm just a jealous idiot cos my hubby happens to have made friends with a hot young woman and I'm old and fat!

WipsGlitter Sat 19-Oct-13 23:10:43

OP you sound very insecure. Checking them both on Facebook??

Bogeyface Sat 19-Oct-13 23:12:10

I think you should focus more on the dynamic between her and her DH rather than yours.

Is she nice to your DH because he is further up the career ladder, but gazes adoringly at her DH?

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:13:28

WipsGlitter Friendship with your boss is surely dangerous ground in other ways though? Fortunately hubby is not directly senior to this woman (he is senior but he is not her manager).

I didn't mean that OW and her hubby aren't compatible, I just mean that he is not very attractive so I can't do as one poster suggested and go on to hubby about him. They do look in love on their Facebook and she posts soppy stuff about him (looked over hubby's shoulder tonight actually and her status was about having a date night with her hubby and lots of <3 <3 <3s and tagging him and saying 'love you'. So that should reassure me - and does - but I still think that she and hubby fancy each other!

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 23:13:32

Well I'd be more worried by his apparent naivety than anything else.

I'm sure everyone who ever had an affair at one time thought they'd never go there.

Nor is it 'insulting' to discuss what defences he'll put up to stop this getting out of hand. That's just pragmatism and not romantic twittery about how if you're happy in a relationship, you're immune to being tempted.

I'm very, very happy with my husband, but I've met quite a few men I'd have pursued something with if we'd been single. So I've been really careful about out of office contact or getting into situations where we've been on our own and alcohol was involved. I've also made a point of talking about my husband and kids, obviously in positive terms.

I'm married not dead and your husband's no different. Neither are you for that matter.

casacastille Sat 19-Oct-13 23:14:17

My spidey senses are tingling for you.

My xh had an 'innocent friendship' with a woman at work (whom he found attractive) for several years before it went up a notch or ten.

You say he's a normal hot-blooded male. There is no way he hasn't thought about her 'like that'.

cerealqueen Sat 19-Oct-13 23:16:24

Wipsgliter, anybody with a normal level of curiosity would look on facebook wouldn't they? I would. The OP indicated that she was worried in her initial post.

LaRegina Sat 19-Oct-13 23:16:28

I don't think you're over-reacting at all - your H is acting like a lovesick teenager and that must really hurt sad

But I wouldn't be asking this woman round to my house. She needs to back off - assuming she knows he's happily married, she should find herself somebody else to email constantly. I would be tempted to put something disgusting in her food if I did have to cook for her...

But anyway this is clearly really upsetting you. And your H is suppose to be on your side, looking out for you and wanting you to be happy above all else. So in short, he needs to grow up, realise how much he's hurting you, put some distance between himself and this woman and start putting his WIFE first.

WipsGlitter Sat 19-Oct-13 23:18:45

How is it dangerous ground? confused

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 23:19:26

Arf at normal hot-blooded male but I get what you're saying. But equally, this woman's a normal hot-blooded female. Men are not beasts unable to control their sexual impulses and it's completely normal for men and women to find other people attractive and yes, sexy.

It's when people don't admit it that the problems start.

TheFabulousIdiot Sat 19-Oct-13 23:19:39

Sounds to me like they are good work friends, nothing more.

BillyBanter Sat 19-Oct-13 23:19:44

I hope the dinner helps you put your doubts to bed.

I remember your previous thread. I think this is your insecurity. He's allowed friends. I can understand that this woman who you think is AMAZING LOOKING compared to how you feel about yourself might play a bit on your insecurities but nothing you tell us your husband is doing or saying suggests there is anything to threaten your marriage other than your obsession with this.

This reminds me of when men make a really good male friend and people say, 'aw he's got a man crush'.

He obviously thinks she's great and enjoys her friendship. That doesn't mean he thinks less of you or loves you less any more than if he had a male friend he got on really well with.

I reckon you are more likely to push him away than her pull him away.

You've searched and searched and found nothing inappropriate.

If you were telling this story with your husband not liking your friendship with a younger man there would be posters telling you to LTB.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:22:30

Wips I guess cos he's your boss. You're obviously excited about this new friendship but this is the person who has to do your performance reviews or hand you your redundancy notice etc.

This isn't about that, obviously, but one big relief for me is that the friendship does not involve an imbalance of power in this way as I don't think that ever leads to anything good.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:25:21

You're probably right, I probably am insecure.

I can't imagine being friends with a man 20 years younger than me and having 'so much in common' (and not fancying him or thinking rude thoughts if he was attractive).

Sigh. I wish she'd get relocated to their offices in the States!

ScaryFucker Sat 19-Oct-13 23:26:06

This is still going on ? And you are offering to escalate it yourself ?

You stand by while he obsesses about what to wear when the object of his affection comes into your home ?

I am surprised you still have any respect left at all for this lovesick puppy. He certainly has zero regard for you

magentastardust Sat 19-Oct-13 23:26:30

I don't think he is having an affair-he is being too open about his relationship with her to you-reading out her email to you from her, happy with having her round to the house. It does sound that he may have a bit of a crush on her -may just be a friend crush type thing though-I can understand why you feel slightly put out by this.
Would he be okay about it if it was you getting all excited about a male colleague?

Leavenheath Sat 19-Oct-13 23:27:21

Look, don't you have the sort of relationship where you could say 'Quit the bullshit and cop yourself on. We both know it's realistic to find other people attractive and to get ego boosts if they find us fanciable too. We both also know that affairs aren't rare, even if everything's hunky dory at home. So what are you going to do in an active way to stop this getting out of hand?'

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:27:44

I don't think I look terrible by the way. I am in ok shape for my age. About a stone heavier than I should be but I'm tall so wear it well. I just can't compete with the looks of a much younger and more attractive woman so that's why I perhaps sound self deprecating.

You're right that I have snooped and found nothing. Well - found lots and lots and lots, but nothing incriminating in it. They just seem to like each other A LOT. I feel a real sense of affection between them.

ScaryFucker Sat 19-Oct-13 23:27:57

You are not insecure, don't listen to the cool wives contingent on here. They try to out competition each other on how much shit they will tolerate going on right under their noses.

If that's you, carry on blaming yourself for your perfectly normal disquiet at this situation. Otherwise, have the courage of your instincts

coppertop Sat 19-Oct-13 23:32:50

I have some great friends that I've known for many years. I don't e-mail any of them several times a day, never mind chat on the phone as well.

It sounds to me that at the very least he's got a bad case of mentionitis. I wouldn't be happy.

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:35:07

Look, don't you have the sort of relationship where you could say 'Quit the bullshit and cop yourself on. We both know it's realistic to find other people attractive and to get ego boosts if they find us fanciable too. We both also know that affairs aren't rare, even if everything's hunky dory at home. So what are you going to do in an active way to stop this getting out of hand?'

It's not that we don't have the relationship - I have said similar to him - it's that he in no way accepts this and once said, 'So because she has a vagina I need to make a plan for being careful not to fall into it?' shock and went on to say that if this were a male friend I'd have no problems (true) and that it's purely because he is a man and she is a woman, which is ridiculous. He also said if I don't trust him to be faithful then I clearly don't have much regard for him and asked what I think he should do, stop contacting a good friend that he really likes because I don't like the fact she is female? Put like that I felt pretty stupid.

Yet the nagging doubts persist and I now feel actually quite sick when I know they're meeting up. I end up 'casually' quizzing hubby on their meetups when he gets home, what she said, where they went etc. He's always very open. I have nothing to pin on him at all - I just don't like it.

jynier Sat 19-Oct-13 23:36:08

I agree with ScaryF!

youvegotmail Sat 19-Oct-13 23:37:02

ScaryFucker are you AnyFucker or am I getting confused?

Here is another thing I don't get - if he fancies her, why does he want her to come round to the house with her husband and children? Why want her to meet his wife, and to see her in her family role, and for us to be coupe friends? Surely that's the last thing he'd want. In fact, one of the reasons I invited her is cos I thought he'd be horrified at the thought but he seems fine. Then I thought her hubby would put a stop to the invite but apparently he's looking forward to it too!

Bogeyface Sat 19-Oct-13 23:37:36

He fancies her, but you have no evidence that she fancies him so cut her some slack yeah?

She obviously adores her DH (from her FB stuff) and is happy to spend a family afternoon with you and yours. She isnt the issue here.

He has a crush and is being none too subtle about it. So as I said before, let him make an arse of himself and THEN discuss it.

BOF Sat 19-Oct-13 23:49:52

He is completely out of order doing all this when he knows how unhappy you are about it- you, and your relationship together should be his top priority. If that means he has to knock it off with the multiple daily emails, then so be it. He can be friends with her without behaving like an obsessed 14 year old.

You are trying to protect your marriage. He is playing fast and loose with it. Daft git.

VeryStressedMum Sat 19-Oct-13 23:54:59

I think you're being very mature about the whole thing, if it was my dh bouncing around asking what he'd wear I would be telling him in no uncertain terms what a knob he was being.

AnandaTimeIn Sat 19-Oct-13 23:57:58

Sorry, but this is all going to end up really messily.

Hope you've got all your financial ducks in a row.

Redflagcatcher Sat 19-Oct-13 23:59:15

Nope, he won't be horrified at the thought at meeting up because he's "planning" an affair, he's thrilled about meeting up because he's not planning an affair, he's in denial, but he fancies her, definitely. He's in Denial that he is vulnerable to having an affair, thinking if its all above board it will protect him. It won't. Believe me, I speak from bitter experience. She may be feeling the same, if she can make friends with you, you all meet each other and be friends, it will protect her from an affair, they are possibly even doing this to try to stop themselves having an affair!! Believe me, it happens, anyone here who says it doesn't, really doesn't know. I have seen it happen in front of my eyes. Please be careful, perhaps the dinner will give you more power to say to your dh it made you feel uncomfortable and give you more weight behind what you are saying, but....... BUT you must be also careful of stopping him sharing information about his time with her with you. If he feels you are threatening their friendship it will possibly become secret......please tread carefully and read Shirley Glass book "just good friends".

dontyouwantmebaby Sat 19-Oct-13 23:59:15

whilst its perfectly fine and normal to have friendships with the opposite sex in a marriage, they shouldn't cause such angst for the wife/husband. your husband sounds like he is behaving really inappropriately, embarrassingly so in fact. You should be his priority and your happiness.

fine for him to have friends but this is just silly, constant emails and chit chat. its not on. sounds like its got to the stage where even you having a word with him about it is stoking his ego. he sounds like he's in cloud cuckoo land.

I wouldn't invite them to dinner, its just torturing yourself further. you'll be jumpy and on alert all night. this couple aren't your friends are they?

I think you need to have another talk with him. its not that you are asking him not to have female friends or to cut contact "just because she has a vagina" (odd words from him) but...come on, its not as if they are friends from childhood. He's focussing way too much on this, sounds like an infatuation. He's the one that needs to nip it in the bud though, you can't do that for him OP.

Redflagcatcher Sun 20-Oct-13 00:00:00

Oh and the fb stuff doesn't matter or mean a jot.....

dontyouwantmebaby Sun 20-Oct-13 00:00:33

I meant your happiness should come first, not this puppy-dog 'friendship'.

TheDietStartsTomorrow Sun 20-Oct-13 00:33:34

I think the dinner invite is a good move. It'll allow you to gauge his behaviour around her. Regardless of happy she is with DH and how much your husband is in denial, if the relationship is clearly making you unhappy, he should cool it.

When's the dinner? Do come back and tell us how it goes.

Leavenheath Sun 20-Oct-13 01:01:06

he in no way accepts this and once said, 'So because she has a vagina I need to make a plan for being careful not to fall into it?' and went on to say that if this were a male friend I'd have no problems (true)

Well yes.

Like I said earlier, I've had to make a few plans in my time not to fall on a few cocks of my (not intimate) acquaintance. I regard this as entirely pragmatic and sensible. Fortunately I don't think either my marriage or me as a person are above such things- and I'm a realist.

It's rather stating the obvious that you wouldn't be so concerned if this was a male friend, or at least not concerned about potential infidelity. But here's where I think people like your husband are completely disingenuous and actually, I'd be more furious with him for that and his attempts to manipulate you, some of which sadly seem to have worked.

These are not irrational fears and if the boot was on the other foot, you bet he'd have the raging arse at worst or a concern at least about you being in constant touch with an attractive, successful new manfriend. And if he didn't feel any of those things, he'd be not only complacent but stupid.

I agree he probably wants her to come round because he's desperate to normalise this, so it can continue.

If he had to face the truth of this after all, the friendship would have to stop wouldn't it?

And it's too important to him and how it makes him feel about himself to let it slip away.

CharityFunDay Sun 20-Oct-13 02:44:25

Two things.

1) She is not, as far as you know, the "OW"

2) This:

I've snooped a lot and never found anything dodge but all the chat seems a bit flirty to me not because they are explicity flirting but because they so clearly like each other and bounce mails back and forth.

Is just paranoid "logic". Step back and look at what you yourself have said:

You haven't found anything incriminating, but you have found some innocent chat which must be flirty despite the fact that it isn't, because talking to someone indicates you're interested in them sexually.

Have a word with yourself.

Libertine73 Sun 20-Oct-13 02:59:52

Yep agree with charity This is purely because she's female, he's been upfront, honest and open with you.

When you met and connect with someone it is exciting! It doesn't matter that she's attractive or younger, it's not about that. They.are.friends.

Poor bloke, don't make him feel he's'crossing a line' by getting on with someone, he's not done anything wrong.

Libertine73 Sun 20-Oct-13 03:01:06

As for the dinner, try and enjoy it! This could be the start of a life long friendship between all of you, if you put aside your insecurities and give her a chance.

trianglecirclesquare Sun 20-Oct-13 03:49:29

There is no way I would carry on a friendship with a younger, attractive man if it upset my DH to such an extent. DH is my first loyalty, and if I had to sacrifice a friendship to respect his feelings, I would do so. Shame to lose a friend, but my family has to come first, and I would understand that flirty messages and overeagerness to see this guy would look disrespectful to DH. If once, in the course of a long relationship, DH told me 'no way, this is trouble', then I would drop the friend.

And OP, you should come first for your DH. This is driving you crazy, and not without reason. He should back off and stop all contact with this woman. Because even if you are wrong about the nature of their relationship, he should be sensitive to what it's doing to you.

Unless you have form for stamping out his relationships with friends and family, he should just give you this one. And if he doesn't, I think that speaks volumes.

trianglecirclesquare Sun 20-Oct-13 03:57:11

Oh, and cancel the damn dinner. That you do not need.

ihatethecold Sun 20-Oct-13 07:55:01

I think you have every right to be fed up with this situation.
If I had a friendship that took over my relationship with my dh, even an innocent one. I would reign it in.

I have too much respect for my dh feelings to do otherwise.

It sounds like a man crush not an affair. Yet!

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Sun 20-Oct-13 07:55:06

Darling you sound very insecure - which is completely understandable as if it were me I would be a jealous mess. Not big or clever I know but part of maturity is being able to acknowledge our faults and insecurity is one of mine. I would have a BIG problem if my DH were doing this - but...

It's a double standard blush I have male friends at work, some of whom I get on with very well, talk to often, FB, texts, emails and generally enjoy a good laugh with them. I don't fancy them, want to have an affair with them or want to sleep with them - we just share a similar sense of humour and get on well. It makes my working life much more enjoyable.

For that reason, when my husband started a new job earlier this year and started mentioning some female colleagues, I had to consciously check myself and my instinctive reaction. He works in a mixed team (whereas previously his old job was mostly blokes) and gets on very well with some of the girls he works with - almost all of whom are younger - and frequently mentions jokes and chats that he's had that day with them.

My first reaction was to feel quite jealous and paranoid but that would be so hypocritical as DH does not make an issue at all of me having male friends at work. The key is that it is all in the open and transparent. I don't hide things from my DH and he doesn't try and cover up the fact that he gets on well with his team - some of whom are female and younger than him (and me). It's my insecurity about how I look that drives how I feel about it - but that's my issue and I have to deal with it like an adult. I love my DH and I trust him - so I need to demonstrate that I have that trust by not turning into a screaming harpy! I feel fine about it these days and it's quite nice when we talk about work now because we both share bits about our days, who said what etc. One of the girls in his team is getting married so it's quite nice to hear about her wedding plans - all quite innocuous and straightforward. It helps that they seem to see him as the old man of the team grin

I think you are doing the right thing by inviting them round. I know it's very difficult but try and spend some time with her, talk to her and be friendly - make an effort. Most of all be yourself with your DH - don't be cool to him or the other extreme, all lovey-dovey. But by seeing them together in front of you, as well as trying to get to know her a bit yourself and letting her see your DH in his family setting with his wife etc, might demystify things a bit. My plan of attack would be to treat the whole thing with amusement - so when he is bouncing about with excitement that his friend is coming over, smile indulgently and tell him that it's funny that he's so excited, get involved with sorting things out with him. Be a unit

The most important thing is that he keeps this out in the open with you and its a good sign that he has - what you want to avoid is making him feel defensive, which then encourages him to hide the friendship, which is not a healthy thing for your relationship. Apologies for the epic post!

ScaryFucker Sun 20-Oct-13 07:55:09

Yes, this is AnyFucker in my Hallowe'en costume.

I agree with Leavenheath. Perhaps he isn't at the stage of rubbing his line-crossing relationship with her in your face yet, but this is certainly at the very least an exercise in denial for him

You are currently a bit-part in his drama. This is why you feel shit about it. I wonder what websites/books he has been reading to come out with phrases like "fall into her vagina". IME, that is not a term that trips off the tongue when talking about a female friend. It sounds like he has been genning up on the most effective ways to make you STFU. Very manipulative indeed.

Get him "Not Just Friends" and make him read it. If he doesn't have a lightbulb moment and change his behaviour immediately then you may have more of a problem than you thought you did.

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 07:57:56

I'm friends with a married man 15 years younger than me. We piss about. Shoot the breeze. Go our for drinks. Both partners know each other. It's really cool. Mind you I've often had male best mates.

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 07:58:20

Plus we text and email. I certainly don't fancy him.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 20-Oct-13 08:03:22

Simply cannot believe posters on here say this is acceptable behaviour!!!

How many people email any friend several times a day??? I've got friends I adore and lived with at uni that I only speak to 3 or 4 times a year!

My point being this is NOT a 'normal' friendship. He fancies her. If he has any respect for his wife he should be cutting down on contact. Where does he think this is going?

The posters saying how ok this is....I'd LOVE to see how quickly you would put a stop to this with your own husband!!

Op- cancel the dinner and tell your husband you want this emailing to stop. Notice I didn't say the friendship...but the level of contact is inappropriate.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 20-Oct-13 08:05:17

Yes but many times a week are you and your mate in contact? Is it a similar friendship to your other female friends?

The op's husband is contacting her more than he would his other friends

ScaryFucker Sun 20-Oct-13 08:10:04

Pervcat, do you dance around the house trilling about what you will wear before you meet him ?

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 08:15:40

Now I agree there. I also know another bloke a little like the ops h. He is very easy to get on with and seems to have intense friendships. Wife knows and tolerates. They last got a bit then move on

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 08:16:07

We are in contact every day. Like a woman mate would be.

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 08:16:40

Oh we text and tweet all evening. We are colleagues

Mapleissweet Sun 20-Oct-13 08:19:46

Just because they aren't shagging doesn't mean their behaviour isn't appropriate.
I think some men kid themselves that because its not a 'real' affair they aren't doing anything wrong. But as always things aren't black and white and your dh appears to be lost in the grey area.
Finding other people attractive us normal, healthy and natural, but when that attraction becomes a preoccupation and slight obsession, without doubt it will have an impact on the dp and marriage.
Who really wants to see their dh behave like a lovesick puppy over a girl so much younger. It is cringey and disrespectful.
I totally get your upset op. they both seem to enjoy massaging each others ego.

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 08:24:47

Agree. It's not the friendship it's the flaunting of it. Weird.

FrightRider Sun 20-Oct-13 08:30:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PervCat Sun 20-Oct-13 08:41:01

oh NOW i cant decide, I think i agree with Frighty

Jaynebxl Sun 20-Oct-13 08:46:14

I think the dinner is an excellent idea and just what i would do. And no way would I stick in the background. I would be a magnanimous and kind host to the whole family and see it as a chance for the colleague to see your dh in the setting of his lovely family and vice versa. I'd be aiming for a happy atmosphere which leaves is all with nice memories of the two colleagues firmly rooted in their families.

Mapleissweet Sun 20-Oct-13 08:46:44

Her dh and ow appear to be building a connection and attraction that should be reserved for their respective partners.
If my dh was emailing a woman each night, fretting over what to wear to impress for a simple dinner at home and behaving as if he was on cloud 9 whenever she was mentioned. Alarm bells would be ringing.
If he is attracted to her to such an extent, he should start to back off. This fantasy is affecting his dw esteem.

Jaynebxl Sun 20-Oct-13 08:46:55

I think the dinner is an excellent idea and just what i would do. And no way would I stick in the background. I would be a magnanimous and kind host to the whole family and see it as a chance for the colleague to see your dh in the setting of his lovely family and vice versa. I'd be aiming for a happy atmosphere which leaves is all with nice memories of the two colleagues firmly rooted in their families.

Jaynebxl Sun 20-Oct-13 08:47:31

Hmm and I felt it so strongly I posted it twice!

Mapleissweet Sun 20-Oct-13 08:48:27

I think how he behaves around you at the dinner will be far more telling. He should be showing you off and be loving and attentive.

WipsGlitter Sun 20-Oct-13 08:56:19

He should not be loving and attentive!! That would be puke making. He should be normal, in good form and happy but not loving and attentive. If I went round to someone's house and they were behaving like that with their wife I would think it very odd!

This is in the OPs mind so she's going to be analysing it from the perspective of a sleuth looking for 'clues' to something that's not there.

OP you said I was 'excited' about my friendship with my boss. You're projecting there again. I have a full and happy life, work is a small part of it. I don't want to be rude or turn this into a SAHM bash, but do you work? If you do can you not see male/female friendships in your own work?

Mapleissweet Sun 20-Oct-13 09:00:14

Shouldn't all 'normal' dh be loving and attentive confused

Mapleissweet Sun 20-Oct-13 09:01:26

And I don't mean snogging the face of each other either...

FrightRider Sun 20-Oct-13 09:03:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheAngryCheeseCracker Sun 20-Oct-13 09:06:09

I hate it when married men ( or women) start avery close friendship with a member of the opposite sex.

It just isn't appropriate. Their closeness and specialness takes away from your own relationship with your husband.

Then they say it is YOU who is the problem, as you are jealous. WTF!

Such a standard script, so lacking in respect and sensitivity towards the partner.

Go ahead with the meal, but please please please do not drink any alcohol yourself ( claim you are feeling a bit headachy/coldy/ anything).

Really, do not drink! As the truth of your feelings will come out and wilk make you look pathetic, even though you are not

BooHissy Sun 20-Oct-13 09:10:44

I think i'd be more concerned now if he STOPPED the Mentionitis.

Tricky situation, I can see both sides, but yes, i'd be uncomfortable with this.

Yama Sun 20-Oct-13 09:10:54

OP - I don't think that the fact he would invite her into your house to meet you and your children means that he would not have an affair with her. I don't know why this happens but I've seen it before.

impty Sun 20-Oct-13 09:17:14

You may be insecure, he may or may not be attracted to this woman.

But his behaviour isn't very sensitive to you is it? If the boot was on the other foot how would he feel?

Personally I would be unhappy with any friendship which infringed on my marriage, regardless of gender. There's a respect issue there.

Suzieismyname Sun 20-Oct-13 09:19:23

What Charity and PA said...

mammadiggingdeep Sun 20-Oct-13 09:24:08

It really isn't a SAHM thing. I work and I think it's inappropriate. I've got great friendships at work with married men and single men. We go drinking, we laugh, we have lunch, we talk. I just don't think it's appropriate to be over stepping a mark. My best mate at work is married, I'd never call him/ text at weekends etc. ill just see him at work. I do text my female colleagues though. I just think you need up be mindful of boundaries.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 20-Oct-13 09:25:14

Yama....I agree. People having/ wanting affairs do strange things....

Delayingtactic Sun 20-Oct-13 09:27:58

I don't know. I'm friends with mostly blokes at work (pretty male dominated area) and would be bloody pissed off if my DH got all antsy because a friend happened to have a penis.

I think I'm with the OP's DH here - I'd be pretty offended if my DH though I would start an affair just because someone was younger and attractive.

Op - you do seem pretty obsessed with looks. The way you talk about her DH is just rude and shallow. It just sounds like if you were faced with a young hot man you just couldn't help yourself.

Kaykat Sun 20-Oct-13 09:29:30

Your H is having an emotional affair. My H was also like this with a much younger woman. He made sure he got friendly with her H. He wanted me to join them at social gatherings. I refused thank goodness. It wasn't long before he slept with her.

I'd be cancelling the dinner it will only add to their thrills and if she is loving to her H or he is loving to you that will tell you nothing. I'd be giving him an ultimatum, she gets out of his life or he can get out of yours and go get his sad thrills somewhere else where you don't have your nose rubbed in it constantly.

Housesellerihope Sun 20-Oct-13 09:32:04

It's strange behaviour on his part but hopefully just a crush and hopefully he just feels flattered. On the other hand I think you're putting way too much focus on what people look like. It really isn't the case that just because you don't find her DH good looking that she's going to want to "trade up" and go for yours! My DH may not be gorgeous to other women for example but I wouldn't swap him for the world (or George Clooney or Brad Pitt or whoever). Peop,e marry for many reasons far beyond looks and life is not a modelling contest. Yes looks matter to a certain superficial extent but no rational normal people make major life decisions solely based on looks!

Bexicles Sun 20-Oct-13 09:32:14

I would go ahead the meal as a way of neutralising any threat. Make an effort to chat with her and play with her dc. If she gets to know you she is less likely to get into bed with your DH (not that I think this is happening)
I think it's a school boy crush.
Good luck OP I hope this fizzles out.

noddyholder Sun 20-Oct-13 09:36:39

I have make friends some youngerbadvwrk with all men do hae that banter-y type relationship with some. I don't get excited to see them though or plan clothes etc and have never 'dscussed' them with dp as it is such a non issue. This sounds dodgy to me but not sure why

noddyholder Sun 20-Oct-13 09:37:30

Male friends some are younger (iPad)

MrsHoratioNelson Sun 20-Oct-13 09:40:15

The point here for the DH is not the flirting or whether they are having an inappropriate relationship of some kind it's the fact that he refuses to acknowledge your feelings about it. A good husband would agree to rein it in because its upsetting you, however irrational you may be about it. So when he says he's not or would never do anything to hurt you, he's wrong.

Pinupgirl Sun 20-Oct-13 09:49:55

I would also be very worried about this if I were you op. My dh once worked with a women and he used to go on about how nice she was but that he would never fancy her in a million years,blah,blah,blahhmm.

I strongly suspect he slept with her. In fact he actually told me he did once but then denied it and said he was only joking and drunkhmm

I cannot prove anything now as she left the firm years ago but I will always have that doubt in my mind.

I would be keeping a very close eye on this situation.

Branleuse Sun 20-Oct-13 09:52:00

your husband doesnt have the boundaries that you need him to have.

He thinks he's immune to his feelings changing

WhoNickedMyName Sun 20-Oct-13 09:53:36

I don't think you should go ahead with the dinner, the only reason being that you're going to spend the whole night watching your DH and his friend for 'clues' that something is going on, and analysing every minute of the evening for weeks to come.

If you carry on the way you are, you're going to make yourself ill.

You can't prove a negative, your DH can't prove that he's not up to anything with his friend.

You've snooped and snooped and by your own admittance haven't found anything untoward.

The only thing that's going to satisfy you here is if he cuts all contact and she's moved by work to the other side of the world.

saffronwblue Sun 20-Oct-13 09:55:17

Watching with interest. At best, your DH is being naive in his excitement at a new friendship and taking you for granted. I think the idea of you co-opting the friendship by making it a couples/families event is not a bad one. Be warm and friendly to her and her DH, don't drink much and see how it all plays out.

Next time he tells you that you only feel this way because she's a woman ask him exactly which of his males friends visiting would see him bouncing around the house like an excited toddler for weeks in advance hmm

Does he react to seeing all of his friends this way? If so, fair enough. If not, then he has to accept that he has created the difference between his female friend and his male friends himself by virtue of his behaviour. Ask him why he thinks that is.

It is not you.

tumbletumble Sun 20-Oct-13 10:56:55

I've been in a similar position, OP, and I did what you're doing - befriended the colleague and her family. I guess it worked, in that the crush (or whatever it was) never developed any further and eventually their friendship faded.

mainamow Sun 20-Oct-13 11:26:07

His behaviour is ridiculous. Does he think he is single and you are his mum while his son is on line chatting?
I think I would find a man to chat as well. Do exactly the same thing. I would make myself pretty and ask him if he likes this outfit when going out to meet my special toy-friend. Gosh.

feelingvunerable Sun 20-Oct-13 11:43:52

I think you are on dangerous ground.

It appears as if they are either having an affair or about to embark on one.

Her meeting you and your dc will have no negative effect on ther ow or your dh whatsoever.

The ow my dh is now with knew about me and our dcs. He read the same script as your dh claiming that they were simply friends who had things in common.

Oh and he claims he is friends with her ex, the father of her baby.

Please don't fall for these lies.

There is nothing you can do to stop their affair. They will decide themselves whether to go ahead or not regardless of you or the oiw husband.

Personally i think your dh is behaving like a total dick.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 20-Oct-13 11:55:42

Yes, he is behaving like a total dick.

This isn't some friend who just happens to be female.

She is his brand new BEST friend. He has far more contact with her than any other friend he has ever made.

Has he EVER BEFORE made a brand new friend he was this caught up with that was either male, old, or ugly?

If not, I think it's stretching credibility a bit to try to claim that the fact that she is a woman he is obviously attracted to is nothing but an unimportant coincidence.

akaWisey Sun 20-Oct-13 12:20:30

mail does he behave this way with ALL his friends, male and female? If so, then that's who he is. Has he ALWAYS gone this overboard with new friendships, male and female? If so, as above.

Have you always had such a reaction to friendships he's made? Have you always felt the need to check out his female friends in such a way, and have you always had suspicions about female friends before?

Think about that. You need to put some more context around your worries and where they're coming from and how they are connecting with your DH's insensitive stance.

I've been there, you see. Did the 'cool DW' bit, welcomed her into my home (well, actually I didn't have much choice), voiced my concerns, got the same response as you have, questioned whether I was unreasonable and jealous…….

And after it all came out and I was right I was then able to put it all together - of the hundreds of female's ex h came into contact with in his professional and private life she was the ONLY one he treated and thought about in this way and she was the ONLY 'friend' I had ever worried about.
I didn't have MN then. For the record I think he's playing with fire, I think he's prioritising his friendship with her over your relationship, he's turning some dubious somersaults in his mind in order to justify it and you aren't getting the answers you need because if you did he'd have to make a decision he doesn't want to make.

I'm still not the jealous type btw - but I do now land firmly on the side of red flags a-flying.

educationforlife Sun 20-Oct-13 12:31:29

Agree with wisey.
Also, I can see this going horribly wrong: the OW as a pretty young mother sitting there being attractive and entertaining and, above all, NEW
versus the old bag in the kitchen flustered and running around and being just so 'deja'
Let alone the 'in jokes' and 'glances' that already seem to be part of their 'relationship - all horrible and not the way to go - although I have no idea what the way to go is sad - sorry

noddyholder Sun 20-Oct-13 12:32:58

I think inviting her for lunch for any reason other than you like her and enjoy her company is a recipe for disaster once the drinks start flowing. He is giving her way too much attention and needs to get a grip

noddyholder Sun 20-Oct-13 12:33:25

x posts!

akaWisey Sun 20-Oct-13 12:50:52

Yes I think the lunch thing has the potential for disaster. I think at best this will be you meeting his friend and her DH, you'll be anxious, uptight, watching their every move….and at the end of it you won't be part of a new friendship group IMO. You'll still be very firmly on the outside of it.

Does he get all excited about going out on a date with you btw? Anxious to dress up and impress you? Or does he pull out any old thing in a 'this'll do' kind of way.

Leavenheath Sun 20-Oct-13 13:11:15

I'm wondering why the Jeff this woman wants to come to your house, but can only think it's either a sop to her own husband's disquiet, she's trying very hard to normalise to her own self or more unlikely, she thinks the whole thing will give her a thrill.

I'd no more want to visit the house of a woman who's hostile to me and has shown it, than fly to the moon. I certainly wouldn't want to expose my kids to that sort of hostility either and although my husband's a grown-up, I wouldn't much want to force this on him either.

I mean, don't people have better things to do with their precious time off work?

That for me, is what's also pointing to this being suspicious.

FrightRider Sun 20-Oct-13 13:19:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JoinYourPlayfellows Sun 20-Oct-13 13:22:14

How can there possibly be "bugger all" going on from her end?

These two people are having an extremely intense new friendship, even if neither of them fancied the other (which is obviously not the case).

Leavenheath Sun 20-Oct-13 13:22:15

But I wouldn't think it was 'nice' at all to be invited to dinner at the house of a woman who's been hostile and who's snubbed me on previous encounters. I'd see right through it and wouldn't want any part of it. I deffo wouldn't put my husband and kids through it either. Who needs it?

noddyholder Sun 20-Oct-13 13:33:18

Life is too short for these sort of games

FrightRider Sun 20-Oct-13 13:34:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Heartbrokenmum73 Sun 20-Oct-13 13:46:20

OP, for goodness sake just cop yourself on, roll over and be a good little 1950s wife!

Honestly, I cannot believe people are telling you that how you 'feel' is wrong, as if feelings are something we have that much control over.

I don't think your DH is having an affair, fwiw, but I do think he's being a total arse and disregarding your upset about his behaviour. If he loves you he'd have an honest, adult conversation and take how you feel on board.

I lived with a jealous partner for almost 19 years. And when I say jealous, I mean REALLY jealous. And I actually gave him nothing to be jealous about. His head was screwed from drugs as a teenager. Unfortunately I worked in education and he couldn't handle the fact that I actually had to talk to male students - apparently I fancied every bloke I came into contact with! I knew that this was who he was and dealt with it - in our case, it actually WAS him getting het up over nothing, every single time.

Before we split six months ago I had very good reason to believe he was having an affair (all pretty much validated on here) but ME being jealous and anxious was enough to end our relationship because HE couldn't handle it!

I've gone off completely at a tangent now. What I'm trying to say is he's the one behaving with no consideration here, not you, and what he should be doing is giving you the attention and energy that he's currently giving to her.

As said upthread, how would he feel if the tables were turned?

Scarynuff Sun 20-Oct-13 14:09:56

He is trying to 'normalise' an inappropriate relationship.

It's not normal.

You know that, all your instincts are telling you that.

No, my dh would not be behaving like this with another women whilst living with me.

He would have a choice. Her or me. It's that simple.

Leavenheath Sun 20-Oct-13 15:00:06

I certainly think posters project and don't listen enough. So for some reason they believe that their own stories about women who are friends to both them and their husbands resonates at all with the OP's story, when she doesn't like a woman who's only a friend to her husband, has snubbed her in the past and is only seeking out her company to mark her territory or find out more of what might be going on.

I also think telling posters who are actually listening to the OP and sticking with what she's actually telling them, that they are going to kill her marriage is something of an over-reaction.

MissStrawberry Sun 20-Oct-13 15:35:47

For me it is about respect. Even if it is all innocent the fact it upsets you should be enough for him to cool it. You and your feelings should be top priority.

Leavenheath Sun 20-Oct-13 16:10:17

For me there are some fine lines about that one.

For example, I don't think it's reasonable or fair that in every case a partner's upset about friendships outside the marriage should dictate whether those friendships exist. We've all read about or perhaps known control freaks who like to isolate a partner from having friends, after all.

Which is why the context is so important. If this OP is a reasonable, emotionally healthy woman who doesn't instinctively mistrust or dislike other women just because they are young and attractive, doesn't have a problem with opposite-sex friendships and doesn't usually have a problem with fear or risk assessment, her concerns about this are probably justified.

If she's also switched-on enough to realise that even people in good relationships where there is regular sex are vulnerable to affairs, that's another plus point.

What she's said about her husband's actions and responses though are far and away enough for me personally to acknowledge she's got a valid problem. He doesn't seem to think he needs to put any safeguards in at all to stop this friendship crossing the line. He seems to think a combination of the woman not being that pretty and his own belief he won't go there, are enough to stop anything happening.

If he genuinely is that stupid, it's not just this particular woman who's going to pose a problem in the future of this marriage. Several others could but that's because the problem is him.

I'm not sure the OP realises that and is why she's obsessing about looks, youth, the state of the woman friend's marriage and the happiness of her own. All these are irrelevancies.

The real problem is a bloke who doesn't think he needs to do anything active at all in order to stop himself falling into a woman's vagina.


akaWisey Sun 20-Oct-13 16:50:30

Leavenheath has it.

maddy68 Sun 20-Oct-13 18:06:26

I read and commented on your previous post. I think you are doing exactly the right thing inviting them for dinner. That way you will see that they are just good friends ,

I think it is your insecurity rather than anything inappropriate. My best friend is a younger attractive male but my ohknowsit is platonic and that's all it is

Having a nice evening with her and her family will help you see this for what it is.

I would make sure you look amazing, and don't hide away in the kitchen, make something easy to prepare and spend time with them being your lovely self otherwise you will feel more insecure!

It's not insecurity. If dh was emailing another woman all day every dayi would be pissed off. Even if she looked like his mother.

Venushasrisen Sun 20-Oct-13 18:30:44

One problem is that putting on a meal for 4 adults and, say, 4 DCs probably could mean you are never out of the kitchen. Who know what is going on in the dining room as you might not get to see, plus, if DH is busy wowing his admirer you and other DH will be seeing to the umpteen requests from DCs.

So your plan could be totally scuppered.

You need to make some clear plans eg instruct DH that he is the one who see to the DCs, gets drinks, etc, make sure he knows he will be needed at times to help serve etc. Or maybe get someone in to do the meal?

The DCs might disappear and all play happily or you could have a tired one who constantly demands attention so you have no opportunity to watch the dynamics. How old are the DCs?

Scarynuff Sun 20-Oct-13 18:35:40

Is she the one who was going rolling down the hill in a ball with your dh?

BOF Sun 20-Oct-13 18:39:23

<record scratches>


Scarynuff Sun 20-Oct-13 18:43:02

Another posert had the same problem and invited ow round. Her dh sat at ow's feet gazing at her adoringly <cringe> blush

thenightsky Sun 20-Oct-13 18:46:32

Scarynuff I remember that... shocking!

Viviennemary Sun 20-Oct-13 18:55:30

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought madness! But on second thoughts it's not a bad idea after all. You can observe her behaviour and get the measure of her. Whether it's all very innocent, whether it's the prelude for an affair or whether she is just one of those females that laps up male attention. If I had to guess I'd go for the latter.

averywoomummy Sun 20-Oct-13 19:45:22

I think I remember your last thread. Is it right that your OH was not only emailing OW lots but also buying her little gifts and that he was sending her emails at 7am when he should have been helping with the kids etc?

I'm afraid I am very much of the "non cool" wife variety and think that your OH has crossed a line. It is clear that whether or not anything has happened he is investing too much into this relationship to the detriment of your relationship. If you are uncomfortable with it then that should matter to him but he seems to be taking no notice of the feelings of his wife and mother of his children - he is instead insistent on perusing this "friendship" with a colleague he has only known for a year or so.

I don't really understand when people say "oh but you wouldn't be bothered if it was a male" - well of course not as he is unlikely to have an affair with another man! Also even if it was a male friend it would be strange for him to be investing so much time and effort in a friendship!

Personally this would be a deal breaker to me and I would be telling him in no uncertain terms to cool it down.

I definitely would not invite this women into my home. In doing this you are legitimising the friendship and won't have a leg to stand on in future - if you ask him to stop contacting her you will meet with the response that you are all friends...oh you have met her etc. And do you really want to be friends with her?

I also think that it will not be fun for you. You sound like you are insecure about your age and looks and so it will be horrible for you looking at this young, pretty woman at your table. I'm sure you will be comparing yourself to her. Also it may be very embarrassing and humiliating if your husband is fawning all over her in front of you. What if he ignores you and pays more attention to her. What if she disagrees with you over something in conversation and he takes her side?

buggyRunner Sun 20-Oct-13 19:45:38

FWIW I work in a male dominated profession and spend all day with men in a small environment- the work is intense and I am very close to the team I'm in. I am happily married with small dc and get on very well with the men I work with (as I do the small amount of women). I wouldn't text or email my colleagues out of work as I know it can cause arguments.

Personally I believe its not their friendship that is the issue. I think its his disregard for your feelings. You need to be happy in your relationship and he needs to care about how his behaviour is affecting you. The communication when not in work if its continuous is disrupting and intrusive- this he could stop easily.

Good luck for the meal- I think its a good idea.

springylippy Mon 21-Oct-13 01:24:51

I was once in a play with a bloke and he clearly thought I was wonderful. His wife suddenly became my new buddy - loving, attentive, fabulous - initiated by her, though I responded in kind. Once the hots cooled off between me and her husband, she vanished. I had to respect her for that. She played a canny hand. (btw I was always, always circumspect, never ever - labouring this - gave him or her any reason to suspect that, in fact, I found him exceptionally attractive and was gritting my teeth to get through the play so I could be away from him.)

So, you could make friends with her, play the sisterhood card.

Your husband is being a dick btw. I would be tempted to find a hot young male friend to get excited and swoony about, invite to dinner, ask your husband what you should wear. Make comments that you're hardly going to take precautions to prevent yourself being stabbed in your vag by his penis. See how your husband likes that.

He is taking no notice of your obvious disquiet about this 'friendship'. It is inappropriate and imo he is asking for trouble. Big time.

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 02:02:13

With respect, the OP's 'obvious disquiet' appears to be limited to this thread. She would seem to be keeping up a façade of domestic normality while secretly snooping and spying behind the scenes. So perhaps it's not surprising that her OH hasn't cottoned on to how she really feels -- it's unfair to expect mind-reading.

My own take on it is: If they're not up to something behind her back (which is what the evidence strongly indicates) then they're hardly likely to set about it under her nose.

I shall be watching this thread with interest.

(And, if I'm honest, with a fair amount of suspicion that this could turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy in which OP will drive a wedge between herself and her OH by being obsessed with the idea of infidelity).

Jaynebxl Mon 21-Oct-13 07:40:18

Could do with an update from the op so we at least know when the meal is!

saffronwblue Mon 21-Oct-13 08:34:45

What are you going to cook, OP?

springylippy Mon 21-Oct-13 10:26:35

She's gone on and on about it to her husband. Her obvious disquiet is obvious to him.

I reluctantly agree about the self-fulfilling prophecy but not because OP is 'obsessed with infidelity' but because her husband is a dick. She is rightly 'obsessed' imo. I'd be tempted to get the gloves off OP, make it clear that none of this is acceptable and set some boundaries. (I also notice that you gave her the cold shoulder when you met her yet she has powered on regardless.)

Your call. Either you blast her with impossible loveliness (sisterhood) or you get draconian with your silly husband. The woman who was suddenly my best friend was, I think, used to the routine because her husband was a dick, too.

Granville72 Mon 21-Oct-13 13:22:53

Maybe you should ask HER husband when they come for dinner what he thinks about all the emails and chatting and YOUR husband really liking her and see what their reactions are.

cakeordeath1963 Mon 21-Oct-13 14:00:02

I'm with Granville - excellent idea!

akaWisey Mon 21-Oct-13 16:56:03

OR <evil emoticon> Say to the DH of the woman "Blimey did your DW put as much effort into how she'd look for my H as he did for her?" then sit back and smile sweetly.

But then I'm bitter, obvs grin

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 17:32:21

I would not invite them.

I would tell my dh that their relationship was not 'normal', regardless of whether he can see it or whether he agrees.

I would make him choose her or me.

Now, if there is nothing going on, of course he will choose you straight away OP. He will say, 'no-one can hold a candle to you, you are the woman that I want to be with and I won't let anything come between us, etc.'

However, if he starts to show any slight resistance 'But there's nothing going on, we are just friends, we work together, etc.' then you know there is more to it than he is admitting.

BoyMeetsWorld Mon 21-Oct-13 17:38:41

I'm naturally a total bunny boiler, but to me I do think it sounds like this may be innocent on his part or the last thing he'd want is her there in his house. She certainly wouldn't want it - or do you think she's the vindictive type??

He may have a little bit of a crush but it sounds more like friendship - he may know she's far too young for him but her friendship makes him feel young.

Whether its a good idea or not though is really more about your self preservation - are you just going to drive yourself crazy & imagine things that aren't there? You could end up making a total Pratt of yourself too & actually causing your DH to resent you?

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 18:11:04

When I said above that you should give him the 'her or me' ultimatum and see how he reacts, I didn't realise that you'd already made noises in that direction. Having read back, I see that his response was this:

when I have had a go at him about her, he will not give an inch. He says he likes her, she's great and he really enjoys her company and conversation, but that he loves me and is committed and faithful to me and has never given me any cause to doubt that.

He is giving you cause to doubt it though.

Right now, you are doubting.

Because of his actions.

So what are you going to do about it?

I'm sorry OP, but this thread absolutely screams emotional attachment to this woman. Trust your gut instinct because it's right.

Who emails someone several times a day not about work other than those infatuated with each other?

You hang up, no you hang up, no you hang up...

It's those initial stages and it may or may not become more but what he is doing already is enough.

Are you too frightened to give him the ultimatum? Why?

oldgrandmama Mon 21-Oct-13 18:14:19

Menu suggestion for that dinner party:

Delice en Croute (catfood in puff pastry - oldgrandmama suggests 'Whiskas' would be eminently suitable for this dish)
Coq oh Vain et pommes maché, jus orientale (chicken giblets boiled with pumpkin left over from Halloween and overcooked watery potatoes mashed up with that rancid bit of butter OP found at the back of the fridge and a gravy made from boiled up bones she was going to give the dog, spiced up with a pinch of stale curry powder - EVERYONE has a little jar of stale curry powder lurking somewhere ...)
Dessert grande surprise (sour cream, mixed with that fourteen year old bottle of dodgy liqueur that someone gave you on their return from holiday and you've never dared open until now ... needs must and all that)

Sorry, OP, I'm not being helpful, but really, I think alarm bells must be ringing loud - at best, your man is being a silly, smitten twat, at worst, something is going on. If this dinner goes ahead, watch carefully ...

memorylapse Mon 21-Oct-13 18:33:15

Im afraid Im a cynic..after my h formed a close friendship with a woman who he worked with (he was her boss), his eyes would light up if her name was mentioned, they had lunch breaks together etc..they went on to have an affair which lasted three years and my marraige ended.

At the very least I think hes smitten,he has a crush on her, he is behaving like a lovesick teen, I would not personally have invited her to dinner.
I am afraid, I have heard all the lines, "we are just friends" "You are paranoid etc" but I think if your gut instinct tells you something, listen to it. If he bleats on about them just being friends and ignores your feelings on this friendship..that is highly suspect.

To take this to another level, what are you cooking and what are you wearing? You've invited them now, so you either set the stage by pulling all the stops out, or by trying to embarass him somehow.

I second trying to ask the other husband how he feels at some point?

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 18:48:20

However, if he starts to show any slight resistance 'But there's nothing going on, we are just friends, we work together, etc.' then you know there is more to it than he is admitting.

Either that, or he's thinking: "Fucking Hell, I didn't realise my wife was mental!" and wondering if he can edge his way to the telephone without being stabbed.

Seriously, though: You're saying that resistance to being forced to lose a friend is proof that he's being unfaithful? Really?

Just think for a moment how you might respond to the following situation:

A woman becomes good friends with a male colleague. The woman's husband becomes paranoid about this friendship, and takes to snooping and spying on her. He finds no evidence of an affair, or even of flitation, but is not dissuaded from his beliefs -- indeed he views the fact that they get on as a form of flirting. Eventually, he engineers a dinner invitation to the 'other man' -- ostensibly to be sociable, but in fact purely for the purpose of seeing how his wife and her friend interact. The results are inconclusive, but it's plain that his wife gets on very well with her male friend. Unable to bear his self-imposed torment any longer, the husband delivers an ultimatum: His wife must choose between her friend and him, regardless of the fact that his wife will still have to work with her friend whatever she does.

I think we'd all agree that the husband was a borderline control freak with severe issues, to put it mildly.

I am prepared to be proven wrong (it happens, occasionally grin) but I suspect OP is being a bit silly. To put it mildly.

WherewasHonahLee Mon 21-Oct-13 18:56:25

- since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy
- He even talked about what he's planning to wear
- He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat...

This is just not normal behaviour for a male who isn't interested in a woman. The signs are so clear to see. How OP's husband can simply dismiss this behaviour is beyond me. He should be doing anything and everything possible to reassure her. OP, I don't think you're being unreasonable.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 19:01:44

You're saying that resistance to being forced to lose a friend is proof that he's being unfaithful? Really?

Yes, really. Absolutely.

If my dh, who I know to normally be rational and calm, is upset because I am exchanging several emails a day with another man, then I would absolutely put a stop to it.

His happiness is important to me and I listen to his fears and concerns, as he does to mine.

That is what people do in a mutually loving and respectful relationship. They don't have one calling the other paranoid, or suggesting that they have mental health problems hmm

There are far too many threads like this on mn and they all follow the same script. You can spot the signs.

akaWisey Mon 21-Oct-13 19:13:45

Oh the mere fact that he went straight to a spurious defence that OP is thinking there was a chance his penis would fall into the woman's vag set the alarm bells ringing for me - there's an emotional connection which is taking away from the OP's marriage.

peggyundercrackers Mon 21-Oct-13 19:26:01

I don't think anything is going on, yes they seem to get on well but that's all it is. You seem very insecure about yourself though - I find it really hard to understand you think your hubby cant have a friendship with someone who is younger. As for her apparent beauty - you think shes attractive but he said he doesn't - why wouldn't you believe him? everyone finds different people attractive - point in question - read the kim kardashian thread - lots of people saying shes lovely but sorry I don't think she is attractive at all - same with Angelina jolie - there is just something about her I don't like at all - im sure others find her attractive too.

If I was in your hubbys shoes and you asked the womans hubby what he thought about our relationship I would be absolutely livid. its rude and it would make you look neurotic. would you really say in RL to someone else "what do you think of my hubby liking your wife?" no you wouldn't. All you are trying to do is cause trouble between them so they don't speak - that's really sad and for me would be a dealbreaker in our relationship - you will push him away.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 19:36:59

Neurotic now, causing trouble, pushing him away... nice.

Yeah, OP, just suck it up. Don't fgs express your concern, get back in your box woman!

Wuldric Mon 21-Oct-13 19:41:18

I don't understand something on MN, which is this complete ban on opposite sex friendships.

I have loads of male friends at work - I need them - there are virtually no women at my level anyway. God forbid that any wife thinks of me as some kind of threat. It's not like that. It's finding mates at work!

Good on you OP for inviting her over. But why exactly are you referring to her as the OW when she is just a good workplace buddy? Bit nuts, no?

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 19:44:51

Yes, really. Absolutely.

That's bonkers.

I would never allow my partner to dictate who I was 'allowed' to be friends with.

And I have had a partner who tried to do that. He was, in short a nutter who I am well rid of.

There are far too many threads like this on mn and they all follow the same script. You can spot the signs.

I defer to your greater experience. But you are, I think, cherry-picking your signs. Snooping and spying has revealed nothing untoward or even flirtatious going on, by the OP's own admission. That is a sign of innocence. But now the fact that they are even communicating at all is being taken as a sign of guilt, regardless of the innocence of the messages!

Engineering a dinner invitation? Planning to ask the woman's husband what he thinks of her friendship, over dessert? This is just severely fucked up.

Stop. Think. Is there an innocent explanation?

He's excited because a friend is coming to dinner. I don't know, perhaps OP and her OH don't often entertain so it's quite a rare and special occasion. He could be excited because he wants his wife to get on with his new friend. I don't think asking your partner about how to dress is suspicious -- if anything it shows how much he values her opinion.

Like I say I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but this thread has car-crash potential of the first magnitude.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 19:54:49

Firstly Charity, please don't call me 'bonkers' because you have a different opinion. It's insulting to me and insulting to people with mental health problems.

Also, the OP is clearly not 'a nutter' as you so charmingly label your ex, she is a woman who is allowed to express her fears and concerns and I happen to agree that, if her gut instinct is telling her that something is not right with this one 'friendship', then it is likely to be true.

Engineering a dinner invitation? Planning to ask the woman's husband what he thinks of her friendship, over dessert? This is just severely fucked up.

No, these are the actions of a person trying to rationalise the discrepancies between what they are being told and what they see going on. In almost all cases of affairs, emotional or otherwise, where the guilty party lies to their partner, the partner knows that something doesn't add up.

They can often go snooping and spying and find nothing for months on end. Did you notice that OP said she almost wished she did find something incriminating because then she would have evidence? This is a perfectly normal and natural reaction when someone is cheating on you but won't admit it.

Now, he may not be physically cheating(yet) but he is continuing a relationship which is causing his wife distress. Why? Why does he fob her off? There is more to this.

ALittleStranger Mon 21-Oct-13 20:01:33

I'm with Charity, at least in that it would be entirely reasonable for the husband to react badly if the OP issues him with an ultimation if there is in fact nothing going wrong.

I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage. I would never expect that or stand for that in a relationship. We'd all recognise it as controlling if a man did it. It is controlling and it has entirely unrealistic expectations of what a monogomous relationship can provide.

I agree with others that the husband sounds like he's got a crush, but this isn't an "OW". The problem is I bet the OP will take anything as "evidence" of the "affair", even though it seems like there isn't any yet.

carlywurly Mon 21-Oct-13 20:10:16

I did this. Xh took great delight in spending time on the phone organising it. We had an awkward lunch. She had her guided tour of our home. I hated it.

6 months later I spoke to her husband again when he called to tell me he'd found evidence of their affair.

My instincts were right all along. And I've always had lots of male friends and no jealous tendencies. I look back and cringe but I didn't feel I had a choice at the time.

ubik Mon 21-Oct-13 20:14:45

We'd all recognise it as controlling if a man did it.

Yy to this.

Op these posters are feeding your anxieties. Why don't you just have her and her husband over for dinner and be friendly and then see how you feel.

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 20:16:24

I very nearly decided not to post on this thread again, however your last post is so riddled with daftness that I couldn't leave it. I will (probably) not respond again, however (although I'm not guaranteeing it).

So here goes:

Firstly Charity, please don't call me 'bonkers' because you have a different opinion. It's insulting to me and insulting to people with mental health problems.

I have mental health problems, and I'm not offended by it.

I didn't mean that you were bonkers, I said what you were saying was bonkers.

Also, the OP is clearly not 'a nutter' as you so charmingly label your ex, she is a woman who is allowed to express her fears and concerns and I happen to agree that, if her gut instinct is telling her that something is not right with this one 'friendship', then it is likely to be true.

I did not label OP a nutter, that is wholly your inference.

Everyone is of course entitled to express fears and concerns. But when those fears and concerns are not backed up by evidence it is also rational to ask how realistic those concerns are.

I disagree that gut instinct is necessarily a reliable guide to the actions of others.

No, these are the actions of a person trying to rationalise the discrepancies between what they are being told and what they see going on.

You are ignoring the fact that snooping on DH's emails has turned up absolutely nothing that even hints at a guilty secret. Unless of course, he's laying a false trail and knows that his wife is secretly reading his emails. That's it! Perhaps the emails are in a secret code! Start working on decoding them at once, then his game will be up! By God, we've got you now!


In almost all cases of affairs, emotional or otherwise, where the guilty party lies to their partner, the partner knows that something doesn't add up.

This isn't sound logic. For a start, he hasn't been caught lying. For a second, suspicion does not equal guilt.

They can often go snooping and spying and find nothing for months on end. Did you notice that OP said she almost wished she did find something incriminating because then she would have evidence? This is a perfectly normal and natural reaction when someone is cheating on you but won't admit it.

It's also a perfectly normal and natural reaction for a paranoid individual whose increasingly convoluted theories are threatened by the evidence. Or lack thereof.

Now, he may not be physically cheating(yet) but he is continuing a relationship which is causing his wife distress. Why?

Perhaps because she's being totally unreasonable and he hopes that the forthcoming dinner -- which OP, not DH, initiated (ever heard of mixed signals?) -- will go smoothly?

What's he meant to do, say: "Yes, well, my wife did invite you to dinner, but now she says I must never talk to you again. Sorry and goodbye, although we still have to work together."

Spelled out like that, don't you think OP looks a bit ... odd?

Why does he fob her off? There is more to this.

Ah, so he's not acting guilty, therefore he's guilty!

This is witch-hunt logic at its finest and -- although I could be wrong -- I think you and others are doing OP a grave disservice by encouraging what quite frankly appear to me to be delusions.

ubik Mon 21-Oct-13 20:18:20

Hear, hear Charity

educationforlife Mon 21-Oct-13 20:21:32

Charity and Stranger
No one, least of all al shadowy 'contingent' confused is 'banning' anything.
No one has said that the OP's husband is having a physical affair.
Rather, posters are saying that the OP should be allowed to express her disquiet and, indeed, anxiety at - what even you, Stranger admit sounds like a 'crush'.
Her husband rubbishing her feelings, while rushing around all excited texting is disrespectful and hurtful.
Constant jealousy about random other people is not something that should ever be present in a relationship - but nowhere has the OP expressed that
BTW, where is the OP?

amothersplaceisinthewrong Mon 21-Oct-13 20:25:17

I would be very suspicious of this "friendship" - even if it is not an affair as such the OPs Dh is investing too much time in and effort in this woman.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 20:27:54

I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage.

Who is in this contingent? Who, on this thread, has said that he should not have female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage? Where are you getting this from, did I miss it?

It's just this one relationship that OP has a problem with.

OP posted about this 3 months ago. It was bothering her then and it's still bothering her now. What is the point in telling her what she should feel?

Listen to what she is saying.

Maybe you should put a link here to your other thread OP, so that posters can see that you don't have any objection to him being friends with women, that this relationship is eating you up and you can't just put those niggles to one side.

ubik Mon 21-Oct-13 20:29:59

Personally I think op is investing too much time and energy in this woman.

Wuldric Mon 21-Oct-13 20:32:08

I don't know whether we have a paranoid bunny-boiling wife or a predatory work-colleague. Either one of those scenarios is (remotely) possible. Why can't we opt for normalcy? Just, sheesh, do the cooking, entertain, have fun.

If DH demanded to check my emails and texts to male friends, I would, in all seriousness, divorce him. Is ridiculous behaviour. Either he trusts me or he doesn't.

looseleaf Mon 21-Oct-13 20:33:54

I agree with amother and DH and I never have friendships with the opposite sex in the way we did before we were married as when he's not working we tend to ring or talk to each other and seek each other out.
Obviously other friendships matter but IMO it's very dodgy to think ok to put as much into this friendship as he has especially when you're feeling threatened- he should want to put you first so it does ring alarm bells that you should strengthen you own time together if you can

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 20:44:06

If DH demanded to check my emails and texts to male friends, I would, in all seriousness, divorce him. Is ridiculous behaviour. Either he trusts me or he doesn't.

Me too. That situation would be utterly unacceptable as the culmination of events. As the first event in a potential sequence of ever-increasing control, it is what a divorce lawyer would call 'unreasonable behaviour'.

Leavenheath Mon 21-Oct-13 20:45:45

Mumsnet is not an entity where everyone group thinks.

So there are a few posters who no doubt disagree with mixed sex friendships and would seek to ban them, but they are a complete rarity IME.

This is a straw man.

No reasonable person seeks to ban friendships outside of a monogamous relationship.

But only a very naive person would believe that all mixed sex friendships are always platonic and never grow into affairs.

The only people who can stop that happening though are the friends. Their partners can't and what's more shouldn't. It's not a spouse's job to police the fidelity in their relationship and ward off threats and attacks to it. Which is why this dinner is a disastrous idea.

It's fine for a spouse to say 'this friendship makes me uncomfortable and gives me concerns' and for those concerns to be listened to.

It's also fine to state expectations e.g. I will question the future of our relationship if you continue to invest more in this other relationship than our own.

But then it's up to the other spouse what he will do, knowing how his partner feels and the risks he's taking if he chooses to carry on causing concern and contributing to such a rift in his personal relationship.

I wish more people, instead of snooping, policing and warding off interlopers, would just say what their expectations are and hold partners to them if they've been agreed. And vote with their feet if they are aren't met.

But I have to say I think one of the reasons this happens so much and why people take so much erroneous responsibility for their partners' fidelity is because we've got a terrible culture of blaming faithful parties for the other's cheating.

Maybe if this stopped happening, women like the OP wouldn't feel compelled to act in this way.

DontmindifIdo Mon 21-Oct-13 20:48:47

Whether you are right or wrong in this will depend on what your DH is like with other friends - has he had "little obsessions" before? when he has a best friend, does he contact them alot? Has there been male or female friends in the past that he's been close too?

If not, if this is very unusual behaviour for him, then it could be that he does feel more for her than other friends. He might not want to admit it, he might not want to be "that guy" but this does sound like he's attracted, even if he's not prepared to admit it to himself or do anything about it.

It might be the meal will make it better in his head because he's not doing anything wrong, all four of us (him, you, her, her DH) are friends. It's not like he's sneeking around, that's what men having affairs do. That's not what he's doing.

I would say if it's unusual for him, then this is a crush (which she may or may not share), if this is common behaviour for him, you might just be reacting stronger because you see her as a threat due to being younger and pretty.

Leavenheath Mon 21-Oct-13 20:49:13

I also wish OPs wouldn't start a thread and then bugger off wink

ALittleStranger Mon 21-Oct-13 20:49:20

*"I will never understand the MN contingent that tries to ban male-female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage."

Who is in this contingent? Who, on this thread, has said that he should not have female friendships or close friendships outside of the marriage? Where are you getting this from, did I miss it?*

Oh come on, do you really need me to provide footnotes? That sort of sentiment is expressed on here all the time.

Mumsyblouse Mon 21-Oct-13 20:49:27

I wouldn't like this behaviour at all, and I'm pretty relaxed about my husband's female friends and vice versa. Too much texting/emailing, no acknowledgement that this is upsetting, interfering with your evenings, and that's just what you know about. If I were sitting here emailing another guy who had become my best friend then my husband would have reason to be worried. I wouldn't, though, and I wouldn't expect him to either.

Wuldric Mon 21-Oct-13 20:53:16

See, this is what I mean about MN being ridiculous about opposite sex friendships ...

It's all borne out of women being fearful and suspicious of other women IMO. This sort of mentality is harmful. It's not just harmful in your own relationships, it's harmful to the wider cause of gender equality. I worry about the lack of confidence it betrays - why are you worried and frightened by same sex friendships?

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 20:54:52

Oh come on, do you really need me to provide footnotes? That sort of sentiment is expressed on here all the time

On this thread? Where?

BOF Mon 21-Oct-13 20:56:41

I don't see anybody here responding with automatic suspicion about a platonic friendship (and I certainly have no issues with them in RL). What I see is a woman concerned that her husband is mooching around like a lovesick puppy over the woman he emails several times a day. Who does that, really? It's so far past normal friendship behaviour as to be ridiculous.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 20:57:11

Wuldric who is saying that they are worried about same sex friendships?

Am I reading the same thread as you and Stranger because I haven't seen that. I've seen posters say that they do think same sex friendships are ok.

Why can't people understand that it's just this one particular friendship which is a problem?

Heartbrokenmum73 Mon 21-Oct-13 20:57:38

Ok, so even if it is 'just a crush' as some people are saying, why is even that acceptable when he's displaying it so openly? Where's the respect for his actual wife, when he's spending so much time and effort on his friend, time and effort that he should be putting into his marriage?

If it is 'just' a crush', he's still behaving like a dick and I think the OP has every right to be upset by his total lack of respect for her feelings.

Leavenheath Mon 21-Oct-13 20:59:37

That sort of sentiment is expressed on here all the time.

No, it's not.

This is a complete straw man.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 20:59:39

Thank you, BOF, I have asked that exact same question about the emails and no-one has admitted that they do that. It's not normal friendship behaviour. Not even between two female friends.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 21-Oct-13 21:07:43

OP, I think you are doing the right thing. A number of years ago I was what you describe as OW. I developed a friendship with a client who was nearly 30 years older than me. He obviously had severe "mentionitis" as one evening I went round to return a video. I met his wife just as she was leaving for work. She froze as she saw me.

I gave her the video and headed home, but was a bit freaked out about the strange look in her eyes. So I invited them round for dinner and it went really well. She casually asked me about the nature of my relationship with her DH and I told

Thing is, if I had not bumped into her, I would never had known that my friendship with her DH was causing her problems.sad

tumbletumble Mon 21-Oct-13 21:10:15

Good post Leavenheath

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 21:10:51

But I have to say I think one of the reasons this happens so much and why people take so much erroneous responsibility for their partners' fidelity is because we've got a terrible culture of blaming faithful parties for the other's cheating.

I can't speak for society at large, but I will say that this 'terrible culture' is not much in evidence on MN at least. Blame lands squarely on the cheater -- and quite right, too. Which makes me wonder if the alleged 'terrible culture' exists at all.

Maybe if this stopped happening, women like the OP wouldn't feel compelled to act in this way.

I think, with respect, that you are imputing a rationality to OP's thoughts and actions that simply isn't there. She's not out to prevent her husband having an affair, she is convinced that he's already having one and will even consider confronting the 'other woman's partner over an engineered dinner in her quest for what she believes to be the truth. Which is very far from rational, not to mention a sublimely and alarmingly bad plan.

JoinYourPlayfellows Mon 21-Oct-13 21:11:29

I want to be in a contingent!

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 21:13:51

penis beaker has a lot to answer for...

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 21:28:56

Sorry, wrong thread blush grin

ubik Mon 21-Oct-13 21:32:13

...or perhaps it's not the wrong thread...grin

Leavenheath Mon 21-Oct-13 21:33:59

When I talked about culture, I wasn't referring to Mumsnet. In general when I talk about culture, I mean in society and not a parenting website. And it definitely exists.

The OP isn't convinced there's an affair already going on. She has never said that.

Heartbrokenmum73 Mon 21-Oct-13 21:34:20

I was wondering what penis beaker had to do with it too! confused

mumsforjustice Mon 21-Oct-13 21:52:21

Penis breaker has to do with ops who spend so much time on so many threads 23 hours a day and have lost all connection with rl that they don't know what they are saying anymore and neither do we...

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 21:55:59

The OP isn't convinced there's an affair already going on. She has never said that.

She refers to her husband's friend as the 'Other Woman' in the thread title.

What are we to take from that?

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 22:44:45

penis beaker brought a massive amount of attention to mn and created an influx of new members so there's a lot of, I don't know, jostling going on atm.

Shapechanger Mon 21-Oct-13 23:26:34

I hate it when married men ( or women) start avery close friendship with a member of the opposite sex...It just isn't appropriate. Their closeness and specialness takes away from your own relationship with your husband.

This is a totally depressing statement. Sorry to single out this poster when there are so many on here with similar views. It's absolute rubbish IMO. Just because you are married doesn't mean you own someone.

Why do so many women think it's OK to police their men and shut down any friendship with another woman? This poor woman is described as the OW in the OP with no evidence whatsoever. Both couples seem happy.

It's bollocks to say that if you feel threatened by your partner becoming friends with someone of the opposite sex then 'out of respect' they should shut down the friendship. What about your partner's wants and needs - for company, for humour, for intellectual stimulation etc? Marriages are stronger if people are secure enough not to try to be all things to their partner, but to let them grow and thrive as individuals with other people in their lives.

Why always the assumption that some scheming woman wants to steal the precious husband (do you really think she wants your clapped-out older man?)

Is it reasonable that after marriage literally half of the human race becomes off-limits in any capacity?

Anyone who wants to impose this on their partner is a bully and a loser, sorry.

BOF Mon 21-Oct-13 23:33:52

"Is it reasonable that after marriage literally half of the human race becomes off-limits in any capacity?"

No, of course not.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It's about a man who has already crossed a line by getting involved with a woman whom he is messaging almost obsessively, and is disregarding his wife's justifiable disquiet about it. It's not a question of jealously preventing him ever having pals who happen to be women.

Bogeyface Mon 21-Oct-13 23:36:34

I dont think the issue is men being friends with women (or vice versa) and those friendships becoming close. Its when the H (for the sake of argument, yes I know it could equally be the wife!) puts that relationship higher in his priorities than his wife. If he had a close friend that complemented his life and he hers, then no problem. But if the friendship takes more emotional energy than the marriage then yes, it is a problem. Thats how affairs (emotional or otherwise) start, because boundaries are blurred.

peggyundercrackers Mon 21-Oct-13 23:38:07

shapechanger your absolutely correct. I also find it depressing so many woman are obviously insecure in their relationships and have little trust in their hubby that their behaviour becomes erratic.

ScaryFucker Mon 21-Oct-13 23:41:48

peggy, you're so cooool, you're like the shining beacon of secure womanliness we should all aspire to. I wish I could be more like you.

Scarynuff Mon 21-Oct-13 23:44:32

OP doesn't have a problem with him being friends with other women.

She has a problem with his relationship with (let's call her X).

She has a problem with it because it is different to any of his other friendships.

He is thinking about her and emailing her even when he is spending time with his family.

He doesn't do that with anyone else. Male or female.

However, I only know this because of OP's previous thread three months ago. She seems to have abandoned this one.

Leavenheath Mon 21-Oct-13 23:52:23

^She refers to her husband's friend as the 'Other Woman' in the thread title.

What are we to take from that?^

That she's worried that this isn't just a friendship and never really was and that it might develop into an affair if her husband and his friend don't put in some boundaries.

From others' posts apparently the OP has been worried for months and in the summer was especially concerned because her husband would contact this relatively new woman friend on waking, communicate throughout the day and then during the evening at home. He was also buying the friend presents. The OP says he isn't in touch with any other friend that often, doesn't buy them presents and has never done this before.

I'd be frankly astonished if any naysayers here would be unpeturbed by that changed behaviour in their own partners.

To the extent that if anyone said they wouldn't be, I'd say they were either liars, or stupid.

nouvellevag Mon 21-Oct-13 23:53:12

I've got to say, though, I'm not sure that a friendship taking more emotional energy than a marriage is the same as a friendship taking more emotional energy than a spouse is happy with. At best the OP's husband is being insensitive, because she is unhappy and her happiness should matter to him - but I know I put more emotional energy into my marriage than I would into composing a few emails a day!

I dunno - I'm just thinking of a friend of mine. We're both women, but both bi, and we have kissed a couple of times in the dim and distant past. Our level of contact goes through phases depending on our other commitments, but we are really close and there will be times when we talk on IM virtually every evening for weeks at a time - DH can tell I'm talking to her by my laugh! I visited her for the weekend a short while ago, slept in her house. I'm still not having an affair with her, nor am I putting more effort into our friendship than my marriage. DH is happy and trusts me. But if he took a mind to be suspicious, what would MN say about me? (FWIW, if he was worried about it then I would try to give him as much of me as he needed and show him how much I love him, but I wouldn't drop my friend either.)

It does also occur to me that the OP's husband might be overly excited about this dinner because he thinks his wife is finally feeling better about this friendship, or even just making a gesture to show she trusts him.

I'm not saying there are no issues here or that the OP should totally let down her guard, I'm saying we don't know.

Bogeyface Mon 21-Oct-13 23:57:29

I see what you mean, but what I mean by more emotional energy is does he text or email or even thinking about his wife as often as the friend? Does he care what he wears when he is with her? Does his heart skip a beat?

I dont think that he is having an affair, he is CRAP at hiding it if he is! But I do think that he is absolutely ripe for one and if the friend made even the slightest move in that direction then he would be there with his pants down before she finished the sentence.

CharityFunDay Mon 21-Oct-13 23:59:00

But that isn't what the thread is about. It's about a man who has already crossed a line by getting involved with a woman

Where 'involved' = 'friends with'

whom he is messaging almost obsessively,

That is a characterisation of your own invention. I have just been back and read every single one of OP's posts, and she nowhere mentions daily numbers of emails, let alone gives any justification for using the word 'obsessively'.

I'm willing to concede that they message each other quite often, but hey, it's the 21st Century, half our relationships are conducted online in one way or another.

and is disregarding his wife's justifiable disquiet about it.

A more objective reading of OP's posts to date might be that his wife is giving off seriously conflicting signals by inviting DH's friend round for a lovely dinner (although little does DH or "OW" know, it's actually an excuse to spy on them) while at the same time insisting she back off.

Give the man a break. His wife is NOT behaving rationally, and in those circumstances I think any partner would simply press ahead with scheduled plans.

It's not a question of jealously preventing him ever having pals who happen to be women.

No, let's call it what it is: It's specifically a question of a married woman being jealous of a younger woman's charms, despite the fact that her own marriage is in good shape and her husband has told her he's not interested in her supposed 'rival'. Yet she insists on taking out her anxieties on her blameless (and no doubt increasingly confused) husband. And other posters keep egging her on!

Bogeyface Tue 22-Oct-13 00:05:25

Charity I think calling him blameless is pushing it a bit tbh.

For whatever reason this friendship is causing her to feel disquieted because of the change in his behaviour that has not happened with any other friendship.

Thats why I said in my first post that I think it is a massive crush and the OP should keep an eye on it but let it ride its course. That said, if the friend did say "oh go on then" then I think he would definitely end up in an affair. Its the blurry boundaries that are the problem.

First you are friends, then close friends, then you get physcially close with hugs etc, then the odd kiss, then everything but, then sex. Each step along the road is such a tiny step, that is the danger.

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 00:06:20

I'm wondering why the Jeff this woman wants to come to your house... I'd no more want to visit the house of a woman who's hostile to me and has shown it, than fly to the moon.

A page or two back, but another sentiment that seems quite widespread.

If I had a good male friend I think I'd be pleased if their hitherto jealous and 'hostile' wife looked like she wanted to be friends.

I had two close male friends from Uni, never anything sexual with either, but I loved them as my friends. Both got together with women who thought that friendships with other females were now off-limits. I'd have loved it if their girlfriends, later wives, had wanted to be friends with me too. I wouldn't care if they'd been rude, I'd just be grateful they'd decided to get over it.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Oct-13 00:08:58

My take on this is H is flattered to death and innocent as it may have started, now revels in the buzz. Avuncular, paternalistic initially perhaps but since the vagina reference I wouldn't blame OP for fretting.

OP tried telling him how she felt and that wasn't necessarily an easy admission because at 51 I know people so often assume any poor old bag female over 40 is bound to be jealous over a younger prettier woman, intelligent and vivacious or not.

Instead of saying, "Okay there's nothing for you to worry about - but if it puts your mind at rest I'll cut out the out-of-office-hours chat", he objected to her voicing her concern. A colleague can have plenty of laughs and pleasantries with peers and juniors all day at work, does he need that at home or over the weekend too? OP is no fool she knows she has no sway over whom he speaks to 5 days a week so saying she is policing his friendships is OTT.

Turning it back on her saying she was insulting him by thinking him capable of such a thing, well yes but arguably he is deliberately disrespecting her now by ploughing on. If OP feels insecure now it's because after a long spell with the same partner she can recognise when he's enjoying himself.

If this meal goes ahead I hope OP's H sees the woman happy with her husband and family and has a rethink.

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 00:13:48

But the OP doesn't want to be friends with the woman friend. She says she wants to see how the friend and her husband interact and wants to give the appearance of the friendship being all above board and friendly.

This isn't a genuine hand of friendship at all. And she hasn't got over her fears and concerns at all.

Let's not pretend this dinner is all about creating a new friendship between two couples.

It is transparently not that.

It's a fishing expedition and a charade- and I wouldn't want to be part of that for anything, if I were this woman friend. I certainly wouldn't subject my husband and kids to it either, as I said upthread.

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 00:15:10

If this meal goes ahead I hope OP's H sees the woman happy with her husband and family and has a rethink.

Nope. It's the OP that needs to see this woman happy with her husband and have a 'rethink'.

BOF Tue 22-Oct-13 00:15:24

"He emails her several times a day including when at home and basically none of it is work related, just chat."

Is this really usual between pals?

Bogeyface Tue 22-Oct-13 00:19:52

Shape her husband is like a teenager with a crush, why on earth shouldnt she feel bad about that? Regardless of the friend, her husband is making her feel like shit because of his feelings for someone else! HE needs to see what he is doing and what a fool he is being!

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 00:20:07

Meh, seeing couples who are 'happy' tells us nothing. As if no-one ever had an affair when they were 'happy' FFS.

Plus, it's easy to feign it in company even if you're not.

BOF Tue 22-Oct-13 00:20:59

"I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?! I"

Again, not exactly usual.

CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 00:21:53


From others' posts apparently the OP has been worried for months and in the summer was especially concerned because her husband would contact this relatively new woman friend on waking, communicate throughout the day and then during the evening at home.

They're colleagues and friends. They probably spend as much time together as OP and DH throughout the week. So of course they communicate throughout the day. And messaging in the morning and evening is hardly a hanging offence.

And it's important to remember that a fair amount of this is Chinese Whispers -- I'm going by your summary of other people's comments about comments on a thread that neither of us has read.

From the way in which this thread has been conducted, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this boiled down to 'he has texted her once or twice before leaving for work' and 'occasionally texts in the evening'.

He was also buying the friend presents. The OP says he isn't in touch with any other friend that often, doesn't buy them presents and has never done this before.

Again, what sort of presents and how often? Is it unreasonable to buy a friend presents? If he were frittering away large sums of family money on red roses, chocolates and champagne I would understand the concern. But I am willing to bet cold hard cash that this is yet another mountain out of a molehill.

If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. I'm quite curious to know the details myself, but don't know where to look.

I'd be frankly astonished if any naysayers here would be unpeturbed by that changed behaviour in their own partners.

Again, it depends how dramatic the change was, which is unknown. But we do know, from this very thread, that OP's marriage is in good shape, sex life is normal (and he's described as 'keen'), and she herself says she does not feel that he has in any way 'checked out' of the marriage.

Wuldric Tue 22-Oct-13 00:21:53

Just checked my messages from my friend Tom today. Six texts in total. All of them hilarious (I think). None of them loaded or with a sexual undertone or anything. I adore his wife and I like his children. I think and hope the sentiment is reciprocated. Me and Tom are close because, well, me and Tom are close. Is just how it is. So do you think that six texts in one day is obsessive? Abnormal? Should DH be silently clocking my texts and emails? Building up a head of steam about Absolutely Nothing?

Bogeyface Tue 22-Oct-13 00:23:12


I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?!

That was what did it for me. I do think it is a crush, but I hope that the friend is wise to it and the reason she is coming to dinner with her husband and DC is to show the OPs H that it is a no go.

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 00:23:35

Leaven, the OP has presented this as a friendly invitation (not a devious 'fishing expedition' which is indeed what it is). Why would this woman not take it at face value?

I wouldn't assume it was done to suss me out if I were her. But then I don't understand the OP's mentality at all, so why would I? If this woman is happily married and her husband doesn't have any issues with her friendship because he is a secure person, then it's not fair to assume that she would realise it is all a charade and she is being duped by the OP.

I don't think the OP should have invited this woman and her husband. But only because she has done it for such cynical and manipulative reasons.

Don't blame the friend for 'subjecting her husband and kids' to a charade, blame the OP. Because the OP knows it's a charade, and she has engineered it. The friend hasn't.

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 00:29:36

I'm worried now though as since they accepted the invite hubby has been bouncing around like an excited puppy. He even talked about what he's planning to wear?!

Happy that his much-loved wife seems to have got over herself and is willing to permit, even promote, this friendship?

Glad that making the families friends will defuse the tension?

Thinking about what to wear because he's a little insecure about socialising with a younger, probably cooler, couple, and doesn't want to look like an old fogey?

Plausible, IMO.

What 'does it' for me, ie makes me think it's the OP's problem, is that she is happy in her marriage, actually (but, I think, less happy in herself).

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 00:38:40

Why wouldn't she take it at face value?

Because as a professional woman, she's clearly not stupid. If when I was her age I'd been communicating this much with a new male colleague and he'd been buying me gifts, it would have definitely have crossed my mind that his wife might have a problem with it, even if in my head, this was just a good friendship. If when I met said wife she'd snubbed me and was unfriendly on each occasion, I would realise instantly there was a problem. If I then suddenly got a dinner invitation from her I'd realise exactly what was going on.

Let's credit the woman with a bit of intelligence eh?

Maybe other posters who were on the other thread could either link it or cut and paste details from it, Charity? Or if the OP ever comes back, maybe she could do that herself.

I don't need to see it though to realise this is a problem. What the OP has said about her husband putting no boundaries in place in a new friendship is the biggest problem, IMO.

youvegotmail Tue 22-Oct-13 00:42:54

Sorry I haven't been back to this before now - to be really honest it's totally confused me. Half of you think I'm justified, and some of those thing they're probably having an affair. Half of you think I'm bonkers, a bad wife, ruining my marriage etc. The split about the meal seems half and half but to be honest I think ive left it too late now (its on Wednesday). It's an early meal as she has young DC who will be with her so an early evening thing, put them in their pjs here and then head home as late as 'they can get away with'.

To cover things people have asked - hubby has other female friends and is not like this with them. But they are generally older (ie my age lol) and long standing friends.

I have never been jealous before ever, and that includes him working abroad, staying away for business trips (pre her), helping out an old flame with some business stuff once etc. I really am not like that. He's a truly lovely person and I trusted him totally tlil now. I still do in that I think he'd really try not to have an affair........but I don't think he realises how risky his position is and how much he's invested in this woman.

I don't just want to invite her so I can spy on their relationship, I want to get to knokw her and see if I can work out why hubby likes her so much because right now all I know is she's very clever, very pretty and very young, and I sort of hate her in my head, whereas if I meet her properly maybe I'll see that she's just lovely and the kind of person I wouldl't be able to avoid being friend with if I worked with her too?

I really have zero to report on the dodgy front - it's just the volume of the contact and the eagerness from both sides. she has said he 'looked nice' a couple of times at work functions (afterwards) and he didn't reciprocate. I think he's being very careful in some ways (too careful?!) I don't think he'd hesitate to tell any of our mutual older friends that they looked lovely.

Yes, I am now getting upset that he didn't compliment this other woman!

I don't know really if I am crazy, but I just don't feel right about this friendship. He's just a bit more 'alive' when he talks about her.

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 00:46:35

Can you clarify how many times they are in contact, by which medium and when it starts and ends each day?

And this stuff about gifts?

I don't think you are crazy at all and I'm sorry if this thread has made you feel this way.

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 00:48:59

Ok, Leaven, I agree to differ.

If it were me, and I'm a professional, I'd be pretty crestfallen if a friend/colleague's wife were hostile to me, and delighted if the atmosphere seemed to have changed.

I wouldn't assume she had devious motives. But that's because I don't 'get' sexual jealousy really. It doesn't make me unintelligent to not assume people are playing games.

Your take on things may be correct, so may mine. Both views are valid; I prefer mine.

Driz Tue 22-Oct-13 00:52:16

Yeah, go ahead. It may put your mind at rest regarding her as she will no longer be an unknown threat. Your DH is a different matter, he sounds like he is maybe making a bit of a fool of himself with regards to her?

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 00:54:27

You might be delighted if the atmosphere seemed to have changed, but in this case you'd be wrong wouldn't you?

So yes, both views are valid, but I'd prefer mine. Because I do 'get' sexual jealousy and even if I haven't felt it myself very much or had cause to, I understand it very well in others especially if they've got something to be jealous and threatened about.

Wuldric Tue 22-Oct-13 01:02:08

I'm not meaning this unkindly, but are you a SAHM? I only ask because you are clearly thinking too much about this, and I wondered why you were monitoring your husband's friendships so, erm, intensively when he has been nothing but open and honest with you. Why aren't you building your own friendships? Is it a lack of social outlet? Too much time?

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 01:02:28

Yes, Leaven I would be wrong, but that is sad more than anything. It's not a bad thing to think the best of people.

And we don't really know if the OP has something to be jealous and threatened about, do we? She doesn't know, so you sure as hell don't and nor do I.

Someone on here has to put the other side, some kind of counterweight to the loud chorus that always seems to dominate this type of thread - the one that thinks all men are lying, cheating sexual opportunists and other women are potentially homewrecking predators.

bofski14 Tue 22-Oct-13 01:07:32

My Dad had a work "friendship" exactly like this. Used to show my mam photos of her on Facebook etc. and we all thought nothing of it esp as she lived in England and we're in Wales. Then he went on a walking trip conveniently near her home town and was invited by her to come over for a meal and stay the night, with her husband and children present oblivious to what was going on. My mother even sent up wine and chocolates in my dad's case to thank them for their hospitality towards my him. It was all a smoke screen. They'd been having an affair for months but by doing it under everyone's nose, it didn't seem so obvious. She'd even emailed him things like "Don't forget to bring a photo of your family to show my DH so he won't get suspicious". Just be careful.

garlicvampire Tue 22-Oct-13 01:08:33

I'm with you and your instincts, OP. He's bouncing around all excited and fretting about what to wear. Since you posted about this, I assume he doesn't normally act like a teenager going to Prom when you have another family round for dinner.

He's got mentionitis. He will not brook criticism of her or their friendship. Instead of feeling concern for your anxiety, he's turning round on you and is one step away from calling you crazy.

For some reason, couples enjoying an illicit crush/EA/affair seem to love arranging get-togethers with their respective spouses. Maybe it makes them feel excitingly Secret Service or something - I dunno, but I can advise you that Making Friends With Her doesn't help: not in my experience, anyway.

You'll have to play it by ear. There will be children to distract you, and her husband, which hopefully will be enough to save you from having an undignified meltdown. Depending on how cool you can be, you could amusingly bring the conversation round to workplace affairs and see who squirms the most - but, unless you catch them at it in the garden shed, I fear the dinner's not going to give you any answers.

Have you read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? I think you need to. Leave a copy on the side; if you are cool enough to bring the conversation round to affairs, the book provides plenty of thought-provoking material.

Just do your best, Be Wonderful, and poison her pudding rise above it wink

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 01:10:55

I think our posts have to be balanced and I'm satisfied that mine are. I see no reason to take 'sides'.

I think the OP does have reason to feel threatened by a man who says he doesn't have to put any safeguards in place in a friendship, because this is naive and dangerous, if not regarding this new friend but others in the future, like I said upthread.

I can see no posts that depict men as lying, cheating sexual opportunists, or other women as potentially homewrecking predators. These are straw men again and insulting to the vast majority of sensible posters on this thread and others.

BOF Tue 22-Oct-13 01:15:15

I certainly don't think like that, Shapechanger, and I'm not projecting from my experience either, as this hasn't happened to me. All I can say is that if you are in a good committed relationship, you respect each other and have each other as your main focus rather than other individuals. I get that if your partner doesn't meet your needs/interests in a particular area - let's say they aren't much of a reader but you are, you might plug that gap with a book group or online chat etc.- then they won't be your go-to person for that thing. However, the OP seems to be saying that her husband has checked out in favour of this other woman in particular in all the areas she thought they had in common. Who wouldn't feel uneasy about that?

Shapechanger Tue 22-Oct-13 01:16:23

Welcome back, OP.

I don't think you are crazy. I feel sorry for how you feel (and don't mean that in a patronising way, it must be horrible).

There are different views on here. I am very much in favour of friendships outside marriage - of all kinds, and with people of both sexes. No truck with outside sexual relationships but I also think flirting, if that's all it is, is pretty harmless. I find the idea that life becomes so limited after marriage that things that don't constitute unfaithfulness are off limits simply because it's assumed that is what they will turn into, oppressive and joyless.

I don't just want to invite her so I can spy on their relationship

This is good, because it will end in tears if you are, it's better that you are keeping an open mind.

MN is great and there is a lot of support for other women (support that I have been very grateful for). But having been on here for many years, in different incarnations at different stages in my life, I have come to the conclusion that there is some bias.

Specifically, there is a lot of suspicion of men, an assumption among many that they are all lying, cheating bastards, opportunists who will have affairs given the chance. That bias is because MN is where lots of people turn when their relationships go very wrong. 'Relationships' is a sounding board for a population that has a more than normal percentage who are victims of trainwreck relationships.

There are people on here whose own bitter experience is projected onto others. Who were cheated on, and assume all men are cheats. Who will tell you horror stories they mean to be salutary. Beware of letting it cloud your views.

I hope that you will give this woman a chance and keep an open mind. I do think it's unreasonable of you to call her the 'OW' with no evidence, though this is obviously what she is in your head.

With luck, meeting as families will normalise everything. If you and your dh have a good relationship and things in common (and it sounds like you do) and he likes her a lot, then there is every chance that you will like her also and find you have things in common. And it will be a new connection that makes everyone happy.

Apart from anything else, your husband sounds like too nice a guy to invite another man into his house who he is cuckolding, or intending to.

He may have a crush on this woman, but that can be harmless as well. I get 'crushes' on both men and women, but they are not sexual, it is more to do with the excitement of connecting with a new, interesting person. And that shouldn't necessarily be outlawed by marriage. Just because you have these jealous feelings doesn't itself validate them, though many on here would say it does.

He's not hiding anything from you as far as I can see. Which makes me think: 'not guilty'.

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 01:30:08

Any my perspective is that a lot of people who have affairs are not lying cheating bastards, opportunists who will have affairs given the chance but are ordinary kind people in perfectly fine marriages who assume they have an immunity from drifting into an affair that they never started out wanting to have. So they don't put any safeguards in place when they met a new exciting friend and when that friendship crosses a line, they will often wonder with hindsight how the hell it happened.

My perspective is also that it is wholly naive to assume that affairs never happen 'in plain sight' of the respective spouses and families. They do.

And like BOF this has never happened to me either. But nearly all the affairs I've ever seen in real life started out this way, with nice people who had terrible or non-existent boundaries.

Jengnr Tue 22-Oct-13 06:08:10

I understand the feelings you are having OP but it does seem like they're unfounded. You've snooped and found nothing, he's been completely transparent about the whole thing and you just have a 'feeling' You've also said you wouldn't have any problems with any of his behaviour if it was a man. The whole thing seems to be based on the fact you think she's very attractive, you think your husband is very attractive and you think her husband isn't up to much in the attractiveness stakes. Again, those feelings are understandable but pretty unfair and disrespectful to all three parties.

I do the email thing, with both male and female friends, always have whether in a relationship or not. Not as much as I used to as I'm on mat leave so I'm not in front of a computer the same. But I'd say the time I do spend on a computer/tablet/phone also includes regular daily emails to friends.

I find the suggestion that your husband 'must put safeguards in place' to stop him from having an affair pretty awful tbh.

I hope it all works out for you and you have a nice time on Wednesday.

theunashamedow Tue 22-Oct-13 08:03:24

Agree with shape that there's too much bitter projected paranoid here (don't need to name them as they will identify themselves by launching personal attack on me rather than what I say shortly!) but if you want to put a "safeguard" in place make friends and be nice to this woman. I know one of the reasons i let an EA deepen was because his exw never attemped even the most causual friendliness towards me at the school gate (well before my dh and I had even spoken). If she had, I would have had more respect towards her and not let the EA even start.

Retroformica Tue 22-Oct-13 08:26:02

People of the opposite sex can be close friends. I would probably hold the meal with an open non suspicious mind and then reflect upon how things went at the end if the evening.

ALittleStranger Tue 22-Oct-13 08:27:50

I think there's something in that unashemed. I think people play the roles they are given.

I think it's telling that the most loaded parts of the OP's posts are when she describes the woman, not her DH's behaviour. She seems as much envious of this woman as she is made jealous by her husband. But who wouldn't want to be young and pretty and clever?

Scarynuff Tue 22-Oct-13 08:29:05

This is what I hear you saying OP.

Your dh's behaviour has changed since meeting this woman.

You have told him how you feel and he has not done anything to ally your fears.

You have never felt like this before with any other person, male or female.

Your gut instinct is that something about this relationship that is different to all his other relationships.

He refuses to acknowledge that, so you are left with the imbalance between what you know, see, hear and what he tells you.

For example, she's just a friend - he says - email her several times a day - he does

Because these two statements don't correlate with each other, there is an imbalance.

You are suspicious enough to look for evidence.

All of these are signs that he is becoming emotionalyl involved with this woman. I would still give him the ultimatum tbh. If he would rather lose me than this one friend, so be it. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me anyway.

SayCoolNowSayWhip Tue 22-Oct-13 09:16:27

FWIW, I think the issue here is that the OP's DH is not listening to the OP and respecting her feelings.

I don't think it's controlling or grounds for a divorce to ask him to stop investing as much time and emotion in this woman as he currently is.

Something similar happened with my DH - I found some texts on his phone from someone he'd had a thing with many years ago (pre-me) and they had remained good friends, which didn't bother me. However I found the tone on some of the texts inappropriate, along with several kisses at the end of each one, and confronted him about it.
He was absolutely mortified, and apologised for the obvious upset I was feeling. He reassured me that nothing was going on, and accepted that the tone of the texts was inappropriate, and has cut down his texting to her.

To me, that is the logical and respectful response from a husband who loves you and does not want an affair.

Not to be defensive, act like its normal, and be bouncing around excitedly at the anticipation of a visit.

It seems unlikely that they're having an affair, but the issue here is totally your DH's attitude.

chrome100 Tue 22-Oct-13 09:26:01

Is it just me but I don't think she is an "OW" - she is your husband's friend.

My DP has lots of female friends - some younger and more attractive than me - who he gets on with, has a good laugh with and is in contact with.

I don't see the problem here. Sure, your DH is excited about her coming round, but she's his friend, that's normal.

BigBoPeep Tue 22-Oct-13 09:55:02

I agree with garlicvampire on the mentionitis - he won't accept criticism of her or their friendship etc. and instead of being concerned about YOUR feelings, he says you have a jealousy problem. nice! I have a good male friend that could easily be seen to be crossing boundaries, but I would be mortified if my husband told me he was concerned in any way, and I would take pains to let him know that HIS feelings were my FIRST priority!!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Oct-13 10:00:05

I can't tell for sure but I think this has been one-way. Good luck on Wednesday, OP. As someone said days' ago, if H has only known her in a work setting, seeing her with little children and husband in tow might give a rounder picture.

Fwiw I was a SAHM Wuldric but being unsalaried didn't distort my perceptions or make me prone to jealousy - I just sensed when my DH found a female's company stimulating and enjoyable. That was me having been with him long enough to know him.

If DH was emailing a woman several times a day and I told him I felt uncomfortable with it, he would stop.

OP doesn't have a jealousy problem. She has a disrespectful husband problem.

ThreeTomatoes Tue 22-Oct-13 10:47:10

Out of curiosity, does anyone here email their own friends several times a day?

I have one close (single) friend who is a frequent texter (to all her friends!), but not every single day and not throughout the day - just the odd text 'conversation' every day or two. With other friends, I might text the odd bit of big news, or to arrange to meet up, or email the odd interesting or funny link, but that's it. & there's the usual FB nonsense too -'liking' statuses, sharing links etc, the odd PM. But it would feel weird if I had just a normal female friend myself who I was emailing so frequently as described here, let alone a male friend! Would take up a lot of time I think? As in thinking time, investment etc?

There is a guy at work who used to be on my team who i always got on with really well, we like the same geeky shows, have the same attitude & opinions of workplace matters etc. Since we've been separated (in diff teams now i mean so rarely see each other to speak) very occasionally (every few weeks perhaps) we'll send the odd quick email (at work, not from home) about a tv show we've started watching, or a quick rant about something at work or something, but that's it. I'd feel it was inappropriate to take it further than that, even though it's all completely platonic and we're both in committed long term relationships. It would be weird if we were continually emailing throughout the day - & i certainly wouldn't be getting excited and wondering what to wear if we were going to be getting together for any reason! that's just laughable.

Dahlen Tue 22-Oct-13 11:20:07

Infidelity has never been a problem in any relationship I've ever had. I have male friends and my previous partners have always had female friends, some of them very close. That's my own background.

IMO platonic male/female friendships do exist. I have them. However, they require self-awareness. You need to address the issue of sexual attraction. If it genuinely doesn't exist on either side, fantastic. If it does, however, you need to be aware of it, own it and decide how you're going to safeguard against it.

I don't think the OP is being paranoid. I don't know her, her DH, or their lives well enough to know if her fears are accurate, but they are not irrational.

What jumps out to me is this paragraph, in which her DH says:

'So because she has a vagina I need to make a plan for being careful not to fall into it?' shock and went on to say that if this were a male friend I'd have no problems (true) and that it's purely because he is a man and she is a woman, which is ridiculous. He also said if I don't trust him to be faithful then I clearly don't have much regard for him and asked what I think he should do, stop contacting a good friend that he really likes because I don't like the fact she is female?

He's right to some extent. I would take huge exception at anyone telling me I can't have a relationship with the opposite sex because I might end up having an affair. However, unless the OP has shown trust issues before (and she says she hasn't), if a partner of mine said that to me, my first reaction would be, "what make you think I'm in danger of having an affair with this person?" Cue long chat about the relationship, the behaviour causing concern, the issues of boundaries, etc. What should then happen is a much-relieved DW and a more aware/cautious DH even though the relationship between the DH and his friend may well continue.

In a long relationship, where either or both partner have had other friendships of the opposite sex that haven't caused problems, the only time I've known someone get offended by having their platonic friendship questioned is when one partner is either repeatedly jealous and possessive, or the other is having (or is at risk of) an affair and is deflecting attention.

OrmirianResurgam Tue 22-Oct-13 12:56:32

Agree with you dahlen. OP's H is too defensive - a calm and sensible discussion could have ensued.

FWIW I think that your gut instinct is not to be ignored because you say you have never felt like this before. I was the same. I had never felt jealous or uneasy in the 30 years prior to H's meeting his (later) OW.

Hmmm, I think if it were a male friend AND he was behaving the same way you would still have a problem because his current behaviour is inappropriate, and would be inappropriate no matter who it was about.

His attack on your feelings is telling - he knows he's being inappropriate at some level but wants to continue so is putting it all on you. He does not sound very self aware (and I agree with Dahlen, to have proper male-female friendships that don't cross the line, you need self awareness) and I think this is where the danger lies.

Dahlens' last 2 paragraphs are spot on - well actually the whole post is, but these in particular! For your DH to be dealing with this properly, your conversations should result in "a much relieved DW" - which isn't happening.

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 18:00:39

Are you still going ahead with the dinner OP?

Facepalmninja Tue 22-Oct-13 21:00:04

This is a tricky one, if you are not by nature a suspicious person then I feel you should follow your intuition. If it was me in your situation I would want concrete evidence of his reaction (and hers) during your meal. However unethical it may be to record the meal I think I would. I would want to watch as an observer and ask a friend what they thought. If his or her reaction/actions are out of phase with what he is trying to project then I would consider my next move. Trying to put but not put my emotion aside, iykwim, to think through the possible senarios and outcomes. If and it would be a big if, his behaviour was 'odd' then I would say, 'no you listen, you are interested in this woman, I am not ok with this,'......'I need time to think'.

And do not engage until you are ready. Speak your fears to you those around you that you love, talk to people, reflect on what you need in order to stay with someone who puts another woman in your (you and him) path.

If she was just a friend he would not act like a lovesick teenager on heat.

youvegotmail Tue 22-Oct-13 21:04:32

I don't understand the assumption that I'm a SAHM? What is this perception that women who stay at home have too much time to fret about what their big husband is up to away at the fancy office all day?!? I'm a very successful professional - I earn a hell of a lot more than my husband and am high up in my chosen career. I still have time to snoop though. Call it a hobby.

Yes I'm going ahead, don't feel I can cancel now - what would I even tell DH??

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 21:07:48

Well if it's going ahead, make sure you are fully prepared. What can we help you with? Do you want to stay in the background at bit so that you can observe without being noticed much?

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 21:21:51

YGM, the digs about you being a SAHM and having "too much time on your hands" are from the same set of bollocks that blame women for nagging their husbands into entering the vaginas of other women. Ignore condescending claptrap like that.

If you want to cancel the dinner, cancel it. Tell your H what you like, he isn't listening to a fucking word you say anyway. Don't do anything that makes you uncomfortable...your H is making a damn fine job of that all by himself.

CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 21:25:13

However unethical it may be to record the meal I think I would.


Are you fucking serious??

This thread is surreal.

WipsGlitter Tue 22-Oct-13 21:35:00

I think the sahm thing was more did you not see friendships between men and women at your own work.

When's the dinner?

Facepalmninja Tue 22-Oct-13 21:43:33

Yes record, I would invite a good friend and ask her to be my eyes, I would not want to look over observant

English is not my first language, sorry but I can not think of another word

Facepalmninja Tue 22-Oct-13 21:44:50

Appear over observant

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 21:54:08

SAHM's do leave the house, fgs.

ALittleStranger Tue 22-Oct-13 21:57:10

Yes but it's accepted that one of the reasons male-female friendships are more common is because of women entering the workplace. The OP is acting like she's not used to seeing men and women have a close friendship. Also she seems extremely envious of this woman, in a way that comes across as pining for a life she doesn't or no longer has.

Anyway I'm far more interested in the recording proposal. Maybe the OP should go the whole hog and set up a two-way mirror. Then a friend could watch in real time and perform a citizen's advice if the DH does go a bit puppy eyed.

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 21:59:04

Ooh, yes invite a friend, that's a good idea.

Look, OP, if you really don't want to go through with it that's fine. He's got you so that you don't know whether you're coming or going. You don't know what to think or how to feel.

Let me tell you this. Trust your instincts. Go with your gut feeling. You don't need proof or anyone else's permission to say 'I am not happy with this situation and I am not going to put up with it'.

If you want to cancel do it and tell him why. Tell him this relationship is impacting on your marriage and your own personal happiness. Then ask him what he's going to do about it.

dementedma Tue 22-Oct-13 22:03:05

OK, I read the first page then skipped to the end but I would think if I were the"OW" in that situation and something was really going on, I would f have accepted the invitation to dinner for fear of giving myself away.

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 22:08:29

There was another very similar thread where the OP's husband developed a friendship with another woman. No proof.

She was suspicious but couldn't quite make herself believe he was doing it. She was frightened to challenge him. Eventually, with the power of mn behind her, she did bring it up and, like your dh, he said they were just friends, etc.

After a while, like you, she started a second thread with the same ongoing problems. Again, with support and lots of advice, she told him how she felt. He still resisted but she pushed and pushed until he finally admitted that he had become emotionally involved with the ow.

He agreed to put some boundaries in place but refused to stop seeing her. OP is not happy but has stopped posting about it. For now.

These things do happen and they can seem very innocent to start with. This is why I say trust your own instinct. You can't articulate what it is, you can't put your finger exactly on the problem, you can't find evidence to back up your suspicions. But you know.

Tell him that it has to stop and see what he says. That will tell you a whole lot more about how he feels about her.

WipsGlitter Tue 22-Oct-13 22:11:34

But what exactly has to stop? They work together - is he supposed to change job?

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 22:13:04

They don't work in the same office. I mean the 'several emails a day' and basically the things that are impacting on OP's marriage.

WipsGlitter Tue 22-Oct-13 22:14:22

But how will she monitor that? They could be emailing or IM-ing all day at work and she wouldn't know.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 22:14:44

Wips, have you been reading the thread at all ? confused

WipsGlitter Tue 22-Oct-13 22:17:09


CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 22:19:03

These things do happen and they can seem very innocent to start with.

Of course they do. But to suggest that any given innocent situation either is or will be a full-blown affair is very irresponsible.

This is why I say trust your own instinct.

Presumably, you also lay bets based on 'hunches'.

Are you rich yet?

You can't articulate what it is, you can't put your finger exactly on the problem, you can't find evidence to back up your suspicions. But you know.

So a 'suspicion' is the same thing as 'knowing'.

You're not a police officer are you, by any chance?

Tell him that it has to stop and see what he says. That will tell you a whole lot more about how he feels about her.

Yes, because of course demanding to control who your partner associates with is a completely reasonable thing to do, and any innocent partner would immediately accept this without question -- and if he doesn't then obviously he's having an affair.

Teslaedison Tue 22-Oct-13 22:19:29

I am very good friends with a married man. He cares for me and I for him. We just get each other, we both like walking in all weathers and we do text each other. I am also friends with his wife. I respect their marriage and the love they have for each other. It can work. We all agreed on total transparency in the relationship. His wife knows that we care for each other but she knows that he is committed to her and I respect that.


Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 22:19:58

Wips if he is going to have an affair he will. At the moment that is not OP's concern.

What she is bothered about is the amount of time and headspace he is giving this woman, like no other friend he has ever had.

And having told him how she feels, he is denying what she sees right in front of her eyes.

jessandme Tue 22-Oct-13 22:29:06

Been on both sides of this one but will not make the mistake of projecting personal experiences onto OP'S situation.
Suffice to say think scaryf/AF and others with her line of thought are wise women.
The dinner invite is tomorrow I Believe so am thinking will go ahead.
Hopefully this event will shed light on the issue. If not imo if the friendship continues in the same way eg H happy as Larry OP not something will give eventually. Just be aware OP it could drift for years meaning u will be unhappy for years. TBH agree with whoever said real problem appears to be disrepectful H at the mo .

Leavenheath Tue 22-Oct-13 22:34:31

Is this thread still helping you OP?

Only it seems to be providing a strange sort of entertainment and preoccupation for some others who don't seem to want to help you, who are treating this thread as a bit of a sport on what must be a dull Tuesday evening for them.

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 22:37:47

You could develop a 'stomach bug' and regretfully have to call it off at the last moment. You don't have to go through with it OP.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 22:46:43

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 22:51:45

I have pressed the 'hide poster' button SF grin

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 22:54:53

I have my tinfoil hat on grin

CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 23:00:35

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pyrrah Tue 22-Oct-13 23:01:19

I don't think you're mad at all.

I'm very accepting of opposite sex friendships - my husband goes out to lunch with female friends often, and I have male friends who I do the same with. I've never once had a worry about any of them.

With an ex of mine, it was the same, right up to the time he met 'H'. She was recently divorced and they became good friends. Not a problem... that was until I noticed that she started doing things like texting him a 00.01 on his birthday to say Happy Birthday, and late evening texts, early morning texts etc.

He was happy to show them to me - without my asking. I warned him that she was after him, and he swore they were just friends and she was just trying to get a social life together after her divorce. I was apparently jealous and imagining things.

Then she invited him to a party in the city where she lived - 2 hours from where I lived. Since it was so far, he could stay at hers, she had a spare room. I offered to pay for a hotel and he said I was mad, he didn't fancy her and didn't I trust him. I said I trusted him fine, but what did he plan to do when she climbed into bed with him naked?

I have no idea what actually happened, but the night of the party, ex turned up at mine at 4am - there was never another text or phone call or anything from H again.

It's the only time I have ever felt anxious and I suppose jealous, and it appears I wasn't reading things wrong.

There may well be nothing in it from one or other side. I'm pretty sure my ex just 'didn't get' what H was thinking and up to - despite my spelling it out. I don't think it's 100% harmless platonic friendship. Your husband is behaving a bit lovesick. Question is what to do.

I think the dinner may well be a good idea. I hope it goes well. Just don't feel that you are going mad and imagining things. I don't think you are in the sense that there is an abnormal level of interest, but I don't think it means that there is an affair or anything of that sort going on. But it is a potentially dangerous situation for one or other or both making complete fools of themselves.

mrshap Tue 22-Oct-13 23:10:47

Listen to your gut instinct op..Ive got the horrible feeling this is going to go not the way you want it too. It sounds like your dh is in the obsessed stage, he has little consideration for your feelings right now.
The ow wont be put off by you inviting her into your home either you're just enabling them to hurt you more.

mrshap Tue 22-Oct-13 23:12:23

You are giving them permission to build on their relationship.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 23:12:23

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CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 23:16:56

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ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 23:20:37

Are we having an argument ?

garlicvampire Tue 22-Oct-13 23:23:22

... advice on how I should format my posts.

Italics are less shouty. Or you could actually reply, as in conversation.

cronullansw Tue 22-Oct-13 23:25:32

Question - why would a very clever, very pretty, very attractive woman who could seduce just about any man she casts her eye upon, who also has a lovely husband and lovely kids, want to fuck some old bloke who she works with?

If she's after a casual affair, (allowing for a career, kids, a husband etc) why would she be all over op's hubby? Would you, dear reader, if you were in this womans position?

CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 23:26:35

Or you could actually reply, as in conversation.

I shall use italics from now on, then. Thanks.

The trouble with 'just replying' is that it becomes unclear which part of which statements you are replying to. I do not intend to change this part of my method of posting. I don't think that's unreasonable.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 23:31:16

I can't remember ever commenting on how someone formats their posts before. (Plenty of commentary of content of course..)

CFD I know you think I am being bitchy, but I doubt very much I am the only one irritated that every time you add a post it fills the whole of my laptop screen with bolded quotes and in-ya-face responses to every one

it's choppy and breaks the flow of the thread (especially for those not particularly interested in your take on virtually everything that everybody else has already said)

like garlic said, this is a chatty site, conversations that flow are much easier on the eye whether one agrees with the content or not

as I said though, you don't have to give me any headspace at all, do what you like

Scarymuff Tue 22-Oct-13 23:31:53

Ok, if you're open to suggestions Charity I will engage with you. (Btw it's ok to put names in bold, not shouty smile)

Asking me if I'm rich because I've advised a poster to trust her instincts.

Asking me if I'm a policeman.

These were unnecessarily smart remarks which don't help the debate or the OP.

If you don't agree with someone else, that's fine but you can't force them to change their opinion by trying to dominate them.

I know your opinion and I know you're not likely to change it. That's ok. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm just responding to the OP and, sometimes, other posters if I think it's relevant.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 23:33:15

honestly, CFD, most of us have more than a couple of synapses, we can see how a conversation develops

or just highlight the poster name ?

just a thought

CharityFunDay Tue 22-Oct-13 23:34:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ScaryFucker Tue 22-Oct-13 23:37:51

Trolling ? yup, that'll be it thlsmile

MaBumble Wed 23-Oct-13 00:47:10

OP I hope this thread has given you some support, despite the disagreements and differences of opinion.

Ultimately no one knows your DH here as well as you, you know him, his behaviour patterns and how he reacts to situations and people.

What some very wise people on here are familiar with are patterns of behaviour. And if I were in your shoes, having been in a similar situation my spidery senses would be tingling.

I mat be wrong but I think the dinner will probably make things a lot clearer for you. I'm not sure I would have been able to go through with it personally, but I spent years with my head in the sand (what I wouldn't have given for MN then!)

I do know, with the benifit of hindsight that it is always better to know exactly what the situation is. Good luck and I hope it turns out well.

CharityFunDay Wed 23-Oct-13 01:27:16

Ok, if you're open to suggestions Charity I will engage with you. (Btw it's ok to put names in bold, not shouty smile)

Asking me if I'm rich because I've advised a poster to trust her instincts.

I think this was fair comment. Are all instincts trustworthy? No, of course they are not. Perhaps I should have restricted myself to saying 'Not all instincts are trustworthy', but I felt a little more expressive than that.

Asking me if I'm a policeman.

That was because you conflated 'suspicion' with 'knowledge'. You were at fault, not me. I felt this was a silly and dangerous thing to do, and so used sarcasm. Is this against some MN rule? If so, a lot of posters are in trouble.

These were unnecessarily smart remarks which don't help the debate or the OP.

So now I'm not allowed to be sarcastic in response to (what I perceive as) foolishness?

Who do you think you are?

Also, just because I disagree with a majority does not mean I am not 'helping the debate'.

And as for the suggestion that I am not 'helping the OP', my intention is to provide a counter to (what I perceive as) some of the alarmingly unsound advice she is being given.

My intent is to help the OP. It's a shame you apparently can't appreciate that. I know you're trying to help too. It's fine to disagree on how to do this.

Rather than personalising your arguments, it might 'help the debate' if you were to present reasoned counter-arguments to my comments.

After all, if they're so 'unhelpful', you will have no difficulty in pointing out exactly why, will you? (In case it is unclear, my suspicion is that you cannot do this).

If you don't agree with someone else, that's fine but you can't force them to change their opinion by trying to dominate them.

WTF? 'Trying to dominate'? I'm presenting my opinion, and backing it up with reasoned argument. I'm allowed to do that. Or is actually presenting your reasoning a form of 'intimidation'? You're free to ignore it. So is OP.

I know your opinion and I know you're not likely to change it. That's ok. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm just responding to the OP and, sometimes, other posters if I think it's relevant.


Anyway, enough of this nonsense for tonight. I shall await tomorrow's post-match report from OP with interest.

MaBumble Wed 23-Oct-13 01:42:01

CFD This thread is not about you. And it's not AIBU. I would suggest that it might be more helpful to try and be a little less ridged in your verbose responses and remember that is a real persons life. Not some abstract debate.

Tonandfeather Wed 23-Oct-13 02:04:32

My advice is to concentrate only on the posts that offer you advice and help.

Ignore the rest. They aren't being written to help you and some of these people probably aren't even in a relationship, nor have ever been in one which is in in any way similar to yours. Seems to me they are just here for a fight with other posters and to take the piss.

A poster (garlic?) gave you a great link to a book that looks tailor made for your problem. Did you click on it? I googled it a bit more (it's called "Not just friends") because a friend has just experienced something like this and I think I'll buy it for her. It seems to be saying what some of the better writers on this thread have been telling you. That affairs happen when someone has no boundaries and doesn't think they are necessary. The author is an experienced therapist too. Surely her views and all the research she must have done carry more weight than people who for all you know, have no experience to offer?

Your husband should read it. Would he?

perfectstorm Wed 23-Oct-13 02:31:17

CFD your sincerity in wanting to help the OP might be more evident if you posted to her, rather than fighting with every appearance of relish with other posters. If you want to have a spat, then perhaps AIBU or PM might be a better place for it.

OP I've not posted because I don't honestly know what to say. I hope it works out well for you and I hope this situation dissipates somewhat. Good luck.

CharityFunDay Wed 23-Oct-13 02:38:27

CFD This thread is not about you. And it's not AIBU. I would suggest that it might be more helpful to try and be a little less ridged in your verbose responses and remember that is a real persons life. Not some abstract debate.

Head ---> desk

It is precisely because it is a 'real person's life' (actually, two or more people's real lives) that I am pointing out two things: (1) Innocent until proven guilty and (b) -- and most importantly -- that the well-meaning 'advice' offered by people with no first-hand experience of OP's situation, and only having her unfounded suspicions to go on, might not be rational or reliable.

Bottom line: I don't want OP to risk a massive fuck-up due to what some over-suspicious interfering wally on Mumsnet says.

OP wanted advice. I have as much right to give mine as anyone else.

When I am attacked personally, I will respond.

I hope this was concise enough for you.

Tonandfeather Wed 23-Oct-13 02:49:29

Are you in a long term relationship with children Charity? Do you have first hand experience of being in a long term relationship with children and a partner who is contacting a new work mate lots of times a day when he's never done that before and doesn't contact any of his friends that much and never has, even when they were new?

Did you read that book link and see that an apparently esteemed author and therapist disagrees with your advice?

Whose advice do you think the poster should take? Yours or this Dr.?

cronullansw Wed 23-Oct-13 02:54:36

I'm with CFD on this re the ''over-suspicious interfering wally on Mumsnet'' comment.

MN / Relationships seems to be overly populated with people who've had the shitty end of the stick, which of course, is entirely to be expected. It's not a forum full of ''oh wow, my dp bought be a lovely bunch of flowers to day, I'm so happy'' threads.

So most posters here tend to be those who've had a hard time from their partners, and respond accordingly, as in, once bitten, twice shy, which, again, is entirely to be expected.

Meanwhile, in op's case, nothing has happened (imho, nothing is going to happen) but a large number of responses here are telling op to expect the worse, I'm just surprised there's been no, ''call the police / dirty beast / LTB'' comments as yet.

Tonandfeather Wed 23-Oct-13 03:01:10

MN seems to be populated by lots of people who have DEALT people the shitty end of the stick too.

As you'd expect.

So they are just as much influenced by their experiences, obviously.

But quite a few writers here apparently haven't either been unfaithful or had it done to them.

The Dr. in the book is objective too as far as experiences go, by the looks of things.

Do any of these writers on the thread have any of their own citations to back up their points of view I wonder?

CharityFunDay Wed 23-Oct-13 03:14:35

I am not stupid enough to give away details of my personal life and circumstances to any old random on the internet, tonandfeather.

I missed the link to the book, could you provide it again please? TIA

ScaryFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 07:03:39

I have never been treated like this, so I am not one of those mythical MN'ers who've had the shitty end of the stick

I can see when others are though, and would like to give them validation that they don't have to put up with it

ScaryFucker Wed 23-Oct-13 07:05:56

"Not Just Friends" has been linked more than once on this thread and is the go-to reference when people are playing fast and loose with their relationship


Like this bloke is

Scarymuff Wed 23-Oct-13 08:18:46

I have not been treated like this OP but I have seen it happen to others on mn and in rl.

Emotional affairs which are conducted in plain sight are the hardest to acknowledge. This is not someone sneaking around behind your back and hiding evidence because he knows he is guilty. This is someone who could be developing an emotional attachment to another woman.

Has he withdrawn from you emotionally? Because that is another one of the signs, together with the mentionitis and being excited about seeing her.

You are the only one who knows your dh and your feelings are what they are. Don't feel that you have to supress them.

ALittleStranger Wed 23-Oct-13 08:40:30

Of course an emotional affair conducted in plain sight could also be a friendship. I think the Shirley Glass quiz is quite instructive as it makes clear that hiding things and having a relationship you wouldn't want your partner to see are part of the patter.

Can it be an emotional affair if the "OW" thinks it's just a friendship? Because she has no romantic interest in some saggy man 20 years her senior. I have no doubt the DH is acting like a man with a crush, but I also think a new friendship can do that, especially if it's with someone much cooler than you. Both the DH and OP seem in awe of this woman, but for him it can manifest itself as a puppyish friendship and the OP is translating those feelings as a threat.

Of course these things are a slippery slope, every affair starts with a natural, innocent gesture but not every innocent gesture becomes an affair. There is no evidence that this woman has consented to being "the other woman".

DioneTheDiabolist Wed 23-Oct-13 09:44:38

Good luck tonight Youvegotmail, I hope your fears are allayed as my friend's wife's

BOF Wed 23-Oct-13 09:51:51

We don't know the motives of the woman- she may just be enjoying the banter and the ego-boost of his interest in her, especially if he's more senior at work; it's very validating.

It's almost irrelevant though, as the OP's husband is causing damage to what should be his primary relationship by belittling his wife's concerns and pouring the banter and best of himself, which used to be the way he interacted with her, into someone who fundamentally shouldn't be as important to him.

He is in danger of creating a permanent emotional rift with his wife and putting a strain on their marriage without seeming to notice, because he isn't listening.

wannaBe Wed 23-Oct-13 10:24:27

Can you imagine any woman posting on here saying that her husband disapproved of a friendship and had put a stop to it? They would be told in no uncertain terms how controlling the h was and to ltb.

I agree that affairs can happen, and that sometimes it is naivety that leads people to a place where they end up at a point of no return, however just because someone has a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex does not mean that an affair is inevitable. If someone chats/emails/texts a lot with a friend of the same sex no-one bats an eyelid. It is perfectly possible to do the same with someone of the opposite sex and it to be equally innocent, and this notion that people should never have friendships with others of the opposite sex is actually quite damaging IMO.

I also don’t agree that just because a friendship makes someone uncomfortable that it is inappropriate, after all where does that end? I agree that if someone has reservations/insecurities about a friendship, and wonder whether it is/has the potential to go too far that these should be voiced and addressed, I also believe that you should never put yourself in a position where you might be vulnerable to an affair (my belief is that anyone is potentially vulnerable to an affair in the right circumstances), but I don’t agree that the person conducting the friendship should necessarily feel they have to end it/step back just because their partner doesn’t like it.

And as much as an affair can cause the death of a relationship, so can deep, invalid insecurity. There is nothing worse than being on the other end of unfounded jealousy/insecurity/paranoya.

I have always had lots of male friends. I have never had the inclination to sleep with any of them. Three years ago I began supporting a friend through a very difficult time, life-changing surgery which could have altered his life dramatically if it had gone wrong. We were friends, nothing more. He is a lovely person and we got on well, but I would never have entered into a relationship with him even if I had been single. I was absolutely up-front about everything with my dh, but this wasn’t enough. My dh became very insecure/paranoid about this friendship. I will add at this point that this was also at a time when I was seeking to make changes in my own life, e.g. going back to work etc which also fuelled my h’s insecurities.

Me being up-front about things just wasn’t enough. My h decided he had to snoop to find out more. He hacked into my emails/twitter accounts/checked my phone/put some kind of keylogger on my computer to try to check up on me. He gaslighted me into thinking I was being caught out at something, when I went out for a drink with said friend (all public, above board) he told me we had been seen in a pub, even mentioned the name of said pub, turned out he had tracked my phone through iTunes but led me to believe that we had been seen by someone who was concerned and had called him to catch me out. He accused me of being in love with this friend because I had mentioned his name in a dream (something which I obviously had no knowledge of nor could I defend myself against). These are all things which are regularly suggested on here to women who suspect their h’s of cheating, which while in isolation are understandable, conducted on a long-term scale when there is no evidence are not, and when you are on the receiving end and are innocent are very damaging to your relationship and your perception of your partner’s trust in you.

I hadn’t done anything wrong. I reassured him over and over and over again that there was nothing going on nor would there ever be. Should I have ended the friendship? No i don’t think I should – why? As it turned out all the insecurity did lead me to step back from it a lot because every time I spoke to this friend it caused issues and I just couldn’t carry on like that. But I wasn’t the one in the wrong.

Now, there were since other issues but suffice to say my h is now my xh, and I still wouldn’t sleep with my friend.

Op – your dh is being up-front with you about his communication with this woman. If he was having the same conversations about a male friend you wouldn’t have an issue with it. He isn’t hiding anything from you. Your thoughts that he must be attracted to her because of how attractive she is are your thoughts and have no bearing on what your dh is thinking. She is married with children and she is not hiding that.

Don’t make your insecurities be the reason your marriage ends up in a difficult place, because believe me, if you don’t trust him and there is no reason not to you will drive him away.

<disclaimer I may have this post deleted shortly as cannot seem to namechange>.

Oh and she is not the ow, and it's pretty nasty too suggest that she is given you have no evidence of any wrong-doing.

BOF Wed 23-Oct-13 10:37:36

I can totally see how destructive that is, Wannabe- that sounds very damaging too. There are differences though (insofar as we can know from what the OP has posted), as it really doesn't seem like the husband here is engaging at all with his wife's concerns beyond being defensive and belittling. The scale and amount of contact here seems excessive by the standards of any friendship though, and it's rather disrespectful and hurtful to be as dismissive as he is about the impact of his excitable puppy behaviour on his wife and their marriage.

wannaBe Wed 23-Oct-13 10:45:40

I do agree with that bof but then I guess it depends on how insecure the op is generally. There is only so much reassuring someone can do before it becomes tiresome, especially if you've done nothing wrong.

In this instance the op's dh is being transparent and that in itself should act as reassurance, iyswim.

BOF Wed 23-Oct-13 10:53:24

I agree with you in principle, absolutely, but I just can't get my head round the whole 'several emails a day' and 'Ooh, what shall I wear?' stuff: it seems completely excessive and, well, odd for a totally platonic relationship. That's what makes me feel he's being disingenuous about his motives.

wannaBe Wed 23-Oct-13 10:58:37

yes "what shall I wear" seems a bit pathetic I do agree.

OrmirianResurgam Wed 23-Oct-13 11:06:54

wannabe - the OP said (I think) that she isn't normally insecure. I think that is significant.

WipsGlitter Wed 23-Oct-13 11:07:50

The 'what will I wear thing' is odd, but as with all of these types of things its just a snippet - so if the OP's DP is generally like this, ie on any other night out would talk about what he was going to wear then it's not that odd. But we don't know if he is like that.

MrsCinnamon Wed 23-Oct-13 11:15:08

OP, your feelings are what they are. Instincts exist to protect us.

I don't know if inviting her was a good move or not, but I would feel the same unease as you do.

There is nothing wrong with friendship, and there is nothing wrong with having a crush on someone other than your spouse (if you have your eyes wide open and don't act on it).
But there are alarm bells ringing in my ears when reading just how much attention your dh pays this women and despite you voicing your concern still doesn't seem to realise that it is harmful to your relationship.

I think he has a crush and doesn't realise it. It may be that she is entirely unaware, but I doubt it.
Good luck.

"Can you imagine any woman posting on here saying that her husband disapproved of a friendship and had put a stop to it? They would be told in no uncertain terms how controlling the h was and to ltb."

I don't believe that's true at all. If any woman was posting on here about a new friendship, they email loads and loads of times through out the day and evening, they meet up regularly too, and her husband was feeling uncomfortable about it, most people would suggest she looked at herself, and tried to work out what its really about, and, if it's the first time he was being like this in a long relationship, then at least give his point of view some sincere consideration.

Leavenheath Wed 23-Oct-13 12:35:59

I agree with that Thisis.

As I agree that there's a fair chance this is a very one-sided crush on the husband's part and this colleague isn't interested in an affair. I doubt it hasn't occurred to her he might have a crush though, or that this is problematical to his wife given the OP's behaviour towards her on the occasions they've met. I'm sure she's not that stupid or unobservant.

But as I've said several times now, I don't think this woman in particular is the threat.

The husband is.

He's said his friend 'isn't that pretty' and that he doesn't need to do anything active to prevent this becoming an affair.

He might not get the chance if this woman isn't interested.

But he might in the future.

In fact I think it's very likely because as we can all testify I presume, crushes are invigorating and that probably explains his 'puppy like' behaviour at the moment. This is possibly making him feel good about himself and it's a feeling he could get addicted to or not want to give up in a hurry.

So it's very likely in my view there'll be other women he'll try to replicate this with. And he'll do the same faux naive bullshit about them being 'not his type' or 'not that pretty' and reassure himself and his wife that he doesn't need to put any safeguards in place and drinks outside of work, coffees and lunches and even business trips overnight are just fine because he won't fall inside their vaginas.

Maybe no-one will let him, but if the OP has got to cross her fingers and hope that all women he meets in the future are more boundaried than him, that's effectively passing the responsibility for the fidelity in this marriage to third parties.

So I think this woman is a complete red herring and there's a good chance the OP will be falsely relieved at the end of tonight's dinner and think the danger has passed.

But in my view she'd be kidding herself because the danger is not in this woman, but in her husband.

Leavenheath Wed 23-Oct-13 13:15:01

And in case anyone missed me saying it upthread and I'm being lumped in with Cronullansaw's victims of shitty behaviour who project - that doesn't apply to me either. A poster also asked CFD for her life experience, possibly because CFD was offering her own advice as a counterbalance to posters who she said, had no first-hand experience.

So I've got no problem admitting on a forum that I've been married with children for a great many years and that because DH and I have always worked and made men and women friends easily, we've both got experience of having to put up a few barriers in some of them to avert trouble. I doubt declaring that sort of 'experience' will out me to randoms on the internet because well... I'm just not that paranoid wink.

Mumsyblouse Wed 23-Oct-13 14:15:13

The thing to remember is though, even if your husband is making a bit of a fool of himself, she may not be remotely interested beyond a friendship, if that. Workplace flirting can be just that, nothing more (even though it is clear your husband's overenthusiasm suggests he has contemplated more).

I remember going to a work's do at someone's house many years ago (when I was young and attractive) and a colleague's wife getting quite drunk and basically warning me off with (not) hilarious comments about how she hoped I realised there were lots of young girls in the office over the years and her husband was a married man etc. It was mortifying as I wouldn't have touched her husband with a bargepole!

So- retain your dignity and don't assume this woman is after your man. Your husband's puppy-like devotion is a slightly different issue.

Heartbrokenmum73 Wed 23-Oct-13 14:54:33

I don't think whether SHE's after him HIM has any relevance to to any of this. Too many people are picking this up like it's important.

It's HIS behaviour that's the problem here. He's behaving like a love-sick teen IN FRONT OF HIS WIFE. And then dismissing her concerns about it. How would he feel if his wife behaved like this? If she developed a new, intense friendship, with a man 20 years younger, and was more interested in him than her own husband?

How anyone can not see that this is demeaning, disrespectful behaviour is beyond me.

Mumsyblouse Wed 23-Oct-13 14:59:47

Yes, it does have relevance- she's invited this woman to her house to see how she interacts with her husband! I would hate to go round to someone's house under these circumstances. I think the Op has to be careful that while she is rightly annoyed with her husband, that she doesn't make a fool of herself in front of this woman and her husband especially as she hasn't found any evidence of anything except some emails which are frequent but not referencing any relationship. She is pissed off her husband is bouncing round like a puppy and asking what to wear, but that is his issue, not the work colleagues.

I would not go ahead with this anyway, I would plead illness, but if it does go ahead, she needs to be normal and pleasant, and not looking daggers/asking the lady's husband about their relationship. This has no good outcome- if they are having an affair, they will hide it and she will look bonkers, and if they are not, she will still look bonkers and jealous. The only way forward is to be nice and friendly, even if you can't manage genuine.

SayCoolNowSayWhip Wed 23-Oct-13 18:55:30

OP, will you update after this evening?

Hope all goes well and you get the outcome you're hoping for.

therewearethen Wed 23-Oct-13 20:27:25

I think you all scared the OP off hmm

I'm sure I read further up that the meal is tonight, so good luck (if that's even the right phrase) I hope it all puts your mind at ease seeing them together.

CharityFunDay Thu 24-Oct-13 00:23:42

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

youvegotmail Thu 24-Oct-13 00:34:14

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

youvegotmail Thu 24-Oct-13 00:35:19

Ha! Didn't manage the bold. You get the picture.

I'm off to bed - to mull over the night's proceedings in my head and wish that I hadn't logged on here to that horrible post, so that I could have got some more wise support.

Take no notice of her youvegotmail. Nobody else is. wink

How did it go? I'm up and scoffing toast if you feel up to letting us know. <<>>

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 00:46:34

Mail, glad you're back. This thread is a bit mad, but the whole site has gone mad this evening. Ignore Charity, I've reported her post.hmm

So, how did it go?smile

Ruprekt Thu 24-Oct-13 00:51:58

The site has gone crazy tonight.

Come back and let us know what happened OP. We do care and fwiw I would be furious if my dh was like this.

perfectstorm Thu 24-Oct-13 00:53:15

OP I think it's fairly clear most people here eyerolled so heavily they were seeing the back of the sockets with those posts. Just don't let it get to you.

Again, I hope you're feeling okay.

garlicfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 01:00:34

I'm glad you came back, Mail, and sorry Charity's sneering attitude got to you. Hope you're feeling back on form come morning.

Sounds like it was an exhausting evening. x

CharityFunDay Thu 24-Oct-13 01:02:25

I feel very upset. I simply cannot post about my evening now and lay my feelings out here to be mocked and ridiculed by this person.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't think I would upset you, or I would never have posted it. It was meant to be light-hearted.

I shall now vacate this thread for 24 hours to give you a chance to discuss things without me interfering.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 24-Oct-13 01:03:15

OP just ignore Charity, she is not representative of MN in any way.

Hope you're ok.

out2lunch Thu 24-Oct-13 01:03:41

thank goodness smile

op hope you feel the support here for you x

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 24-Oct-13 01:04:18

Charity - we see through you, you know. All the disingenuous 'oh I'm sorry'. Pull the other one love.

Leavenheath Thu 24-Oct-13 01:27:46

OP I hope you feel you can come back, love. I'm glad you've acknowledged that lots of us here have tried to help you and want to go on helping you.

In other news, I am speechless that this thread and Scary/Anyfucker's posts on it have been cited by MNHQ as the one that tipped the scales that led to that magnificent woman's banning this evening.

She's supported the OP all the way through, just like she's supported probably thousands of other posters before.

Yet the OP is too upset tonight to post on her own thread, not because of Scary's posts, but by those written by the poster Scary had the courage to challenge.

What a travesty for fair play and justice


Bogeyface Thu 24-Oct-13 01:29:05

I shall now vacate this thread for 24 hours to give you a chance to discuss things without me interfering.

Or you could think about the OP and bugger off completely.

Bogeyface Thu 24-Oct-13 01:30:07

AF has been banned?!


Leavenheath Thu 24-Oct-13 01:49:32

I know Bogey

I logged on tonight and was stunned to see all the active threads about it.

The actual E mail to AF from MNHQ was posted by them on another thread and this thread was cited, and specifically AF's posts to CFD last night. Although they are saying this was a tipping point and not a catalyst, how on earth anyone can have the bad judgement to make this thread the final arbiter in that decision is truly beyond my understanding.

Toffi Thu 24-Oct-13 02:01:17

OP it sounds like you've had a really stressful time of it, hope you are ok

DoubleLifeIsForAnyFUCKER Thu 24-Oct-13 02:17:02

Oh OP im sorry you were upset earlier, it's all got weird and not about you which is not fair as this is your thread, your need for support and your very real life flowers

Hope you having a good sleep and can get some support tomorrow, from here, a new fresh thread or rl. It's a confusing 'head fuck' situation and I hope you gain some clarity.

Hope this evenings dinner wasn't too awful

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 02:39:26

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 02:40:19

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

headoverheels Thu 24-Oct-13 06:50:30

OP, I hope you're ok.

Charity, I hope you're ashamed of yourself.

Ninjafucker Thu 24-Oct-13 07:31:42

Mail, we are here for you sweetie, ignore those that just don't seem to understand your issue. I hope that you can gain strength from those that do understand (((hugs))) to you.

Anyfucker banned? Wtf!!!!! This is indeed a sad day for mn.

Charity, I hope that you are proud of your words shakes a sad head

ChestyCoffinFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 07:43:04

OP hope your ok thanks

charity your posting style seems very "Goady"
Is that intentional?

TiredDog Thu 24-Oct-13 07:43:41

Wow. So this is who got AF banned? CFD?

ThreeTomatoes Thu 24-Oct-13 07:58:42

Woke up to all this shock. WTF?!

OP please don't let CFD prevent you from accessing all the other wonderful support you'll find here. I hope you come back & ignore CFD

Leavenheath or anyone else, can you link to the thread with MNHQ's email? Too many AF threads to trawl through to find it!!

upthefucker Thu 24-Oct-13 08:04:56


I hope you're ok and managed to get a good nights sleep thanks

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 08:07:51

CFD call AF a troll, yet AF got banned? Shame on MNHQ angry

averywoomummy Thu 24-Oct-13 08:10:43

OP please come back - it is not fair that your thread has been ruined for you by one nasty poster!

There are lots of people on here who are very happy to listen and give you advice.

I hope the dinner went ok for you.

Couldn't agree more, muff. Awfully bad judgement on the part of HQ.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 08:12:35

OP there are people like this on mn just like there are in rl. You just have to ignore them.

I hope you feel up to posting later because there are plenty of people who understand what you are explaining and are ready to support you. Like you said, you were hoping for perspective and, apart from thse ridiculous and insensitive posts, I think that's what you getting from this thread.

SayCoolNowSayWhip Thu 24-Oct-13 08:19:51

Why hasn't CFD been banned? confused

Her second last post accusing the OP of being passed out in a gin soaked mess is surely worthy of some recrimination!

Tabby1963 Thu 24-Oct-13 08:22:48

OP, just wanted to post about my experience. I was best mates with a guy I worked with many years ago, before emails/mobile phones/technology lol.

That is it. I would never have dreamed of fancying him (or him me), he was like a big brother my real brother was a twat. He was happily married with kids. I never met his wife but chatted on the phone at work but would have been horrified if I thought she felt threatened by our friendship. I was in and out of relationships myself during our friendship, with guys my own age, eventually settling down and marrying my now DH who also met and became friends with my workmate.

I think that your husband's behaviour around this woman is innocent. If he fancied her/was having an affair then he would not want you to meet her at all. He would be secretive.

Please try to approach the dinner party with an open mind. Watch how she and her husband interact together and with your husband. I hope it can reassure you.

myroomisatip Thu 24-Oct-13 08:29:49

OP please do not be put off, the majority of posters on here support you and want to help.

Maybe you could read through the thread again and PM to some of the supportive ones, I am sure no on would mind.

youvegotmail Thu 24-Oct-13 08:33:54

Typing on my phone so please excuse errors. I was emotional last night and a little drunk. Coming on to that mocking post from CFD completely put me off posting. Thank you so much for the PMs.

I am shocked that AF - someone whose advice I respect more than any online poster I've ever met - has been banned. Her posts on this thread were 100% sensible as far as I'm concerned, and I can't believe she is gone while CFD is still here.

BeckAndCall Thu 24-Oct-13 08:34:33

OP - your thread has been caught up in the middle of a massive row overnight which has resulted in a poster in this thread being banned - hence the comments

Can I suggest that you start another thread and perhaps link to this one so that you can get some real advice and not have people distracted on here by the removal of AF or by rereading the shite posted by CFD? That way you stand a chance of getting the perspective and support that we all know MN can give when you need it.

EdithWeston Thu 24-Oct-13 08:41:27

There is one distinctive tone (not one user name though) which is consistently sarcastic over a number of threads about those who take the view that cheating is wrong

Criticising those who hold different views (here by calling them "guillotine knitters") is - in football parlance - a sign of playing the man not the ball, andthat (despite its MN popularity on Gove threads) is typically a sign of weak argument.

Venushasrisen Thu 24-Oct-13 08:46:35

My DH has always formed 'friendships' with attractive females at work, it is always attractive, younger females and he is the advisor figure, support, paternal type of thing. He has had 'normal' friendships with the more feisty, fun females too. In the days when there were secretaries he always became friends with them, more than his colleagues did imo.

Only once did he form a friendship as intense as described by the OP's. Which did form ructions at home, we were on a foreign family holiday and he was spending hours emailing her - areshole. I decided afterwards that it was because I was back at work after being SAHM for 15 years and, with 3 teenage dcs, he was sorry for himself as not getting enough of my attention!!

I think the 'friendships' were an ego boost for him, he is very emotionally reserved and maybe he liked the attention. Older now the few female admin staff are younger than his daughter so doesn't happen any more. And now DCs are left home and I am free I would tell him to clear off if he decided to simper and flirt with someone.

DeMaz Thu 24-Oct-13 08:53:36

Youvegotmail, I'm thinking of you x

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 09:29:52

Because posters are normally given warnings before they're banned.

Venushasrisen Thu 24-Oct-13 09:40:33

And now DCs are left home and I am free I would tell him to clear off if he decided to simper and flirt with someone

Ooops. bit of an exaggeration there, what I meant was that when I had DCs I felt responsible for their happiness therefore rows, threats, arguments over friendships with others would have affected and possibly distressed them, so didn't happen. Now they've left home I would be more open about my views.

wannaBe Thu 24-Oct-13 09:47:22

all this hysteria over one post, seriously this thread has hundered and hundreds of posts and people are getting het up over one post.

Get a grip.

HighBrows Thu 24-Oct-13 09:55:19

youvegotmail I hope you can at least PM some of the more helpful posters on this thread. Mind yourself and I hope things get resolved for you soon flowers

BouquetFanjo Thu 24-Oct-13 10:05:12

Youvegotmail, hope you're ok this morning.

Inertia Thu 24-Oct-13 10:08:39

You'veGotMail- you've got mail smile

Inertia Thu 24-Oct-13 10:08:58

Well, a PM .

struggling100 Thu 24-Oct-13 10:14:46

Getting back to the original post... I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea for you to have her over to dinner.

Don't get me wrong: I think your DH's behaviour is out of line. In our society, we sometimes divide behaviour too much along the lines of sex: so sleeping with someone else is not OK, but having a very intense emotional closeness to someone is fine. I think that's a bunch of bull! A really intense emotional relationship can be every bit as damaging to some marriages as a sexual affair. (However, to stress: I do think men and women can be friends. I just don't think that the kind of very intense friendship that you describe is OK. And also, there are some marriages where an intense friendship of this kind is actually welcomed. It depends on the couple).

However, I do think getting to know her will give you two new options. Firstly, and most optimistically (!) she may eventually become a friend of both of you, which will recalibrate the behaviour so that you are two close couples. Sounds implausible, I know, but I have seen it happen!

Secondly, if she is a decent sort it may be the beginnings of a relationship where you can say to her that you feel sad and uncomfortable about the relationship, even though you know that there is nothing sexual going on. She may be shocked, angry, or upset at the idea, but it might be enough to make her think that she's actually hurting someone else with this 'innocent' friendship. Sometimes appealing to someone's better nature in a quiet, calm way can be very effective.

Thirdly, if neither of the above work, it gives you ammo to say to your partner that you really tried - and it gives you that knowledge too. I speak as someone whose ex partner (it ended five years ago) had an emotional affair, which he denied and denied and denied. A month ago, he sent me an email saying he now understood how much it had hurt me, and how much damage it had done, and was sorry!

I have since got married and am blissfully happy with a new partner who does not act in the same way! smile

olgaga Thu 24-Oct-13 10:21:28

So I have finally found this thread...

OP if you are still there, how sad that your post has been derailed like this.
I hope you feel able to return, perhaps on a new thread.

This confirms exactly what I thought about AF's ban. I posted a comment about the ban on this thread.

MNHQ I think you seriously need to re-examine what you have done, and more importantly, why.

gamerchick Thu 24-Oct-13 10:23:24

for christs sake it's a 7 day suspension.. AF was expecting it. She hasn't been banned.

olgaga Thu 24-Oct-13 10:26:34

It's not just about AF though. I posted my comment on this thread in case AF is still following it. Who rattled your cage?

AnyDozerFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 10:28:58

OP, like others am sorry your thread was derailed, things have been odd on MN recently, but if you want it, thoughts and support are still available.

noseymcposey Thu 24-Oct-13 10:30:34

youvegotmail I was thinking about your situation and how much the responses are divided on whether or not it is anything to be worried about. It's unusual to see such a divided thread I think.

Anyway, I think there is really very little chance of this developing in to an affair for lots of reasons - both your husband and his friend are happily married etc and your DH is being open, honest and sincere in what he says (I believe!) but are you worried that he will fall in love with her? The damage from that is at least as much as a physical affair and much harder to protect yourself against.

If that is how you feel - can you say that explicitly to your DH. I think it is a powerful thing to challenge your husband with and much harder to shrug off with a throwaway 'I'm not going to fall over and stab her with my c*ck' or whatever similar thing he said.

Hope you're feeling ok

QuintsHollow Thu 24-Oct-13 10:35:57

But it is illuminating.

On this thread, CFD has not really broken any rules. She has been outright nasty, mocking, insinuating things about op, but she has not broken any rules. The rules dont say "dont bully posters", presumably because the people who made the guidelines were reasonable adults who did not think it necessary to spell it out.

Is there a fine line between being helpful and supportive, and being sarcastic and condescending? No, not really. They are poles apart, and therefore easy to spot. The first is helpful, the other makes you feel bad, and doubt yourself. And that is not what mumsnet is for. It may not break any specific rules, but it against the spirit of the forum. And that should hanging over us like a Prime Directive.

Looking at how CFD has posted on this thread, it reminds me very much of the mentality of the "cool girls in high school" and how they got away with bullying other students. They did not swear, they did not call names, it was all in how they phrased it, and how they presented, or misrepresented the op.

CFD has not broken rules outright, she has broken the Prime Directive.

While I like and respect AF, and have no clue who CFD is, this is not really in support of AF per se.

It is the principle. It could be between CitronellaCandleStorm and MacundoRainfal (and nobody would have noticed)l. It could be anybody. It is still wrong.

But, the fact that AF got suspended, and the outcry, it has made people stop and think about the issue, and trolling, and dis-ingenuity in general, and that is a good thing.

QuintsHollow Thu 24-Oct-13 10:37:16

Having said all that, youvegotmail - I have been thinking about you and how it panned out. Please dont let this stop you from posting for support. There are hundreds of sympathetic and wise posters here who can help you work through this.

gamerchick Thu 24-Oct-13 10:44:33

no cage rattling here olga.. a load of threads hashing it out.. popping up on many random threads tweaked my earlobe.

It's out of my system now smile

olgaga Thu 24-Oct-13 10:48:30

Well put Quint.

DownstairsMixUp Thu 24-Oct-13 10:50:14

Hi youvegotmail i hope you can come back again and tell us a bit more about what happened. I've just read this from start to finish, Leven and AF both have given such good advice. It was MN that made me realise something was going on with an ex (now ex for a reason) and actually AF was one of the those that give me the advice. To me, he has over stepped the mark already. He is disrespecting and not listening to you and your feelings.

Hope you're OK OP.

Twinklestein Thu 24-Oct-13 11:16:40

Maybe the OP should start a new thread, away from the issues around CFD & AF?

I hope things are ok OP. x

Granville72 Thu 24-Oct-13 11:20:09

Hope you're ok OP. Please come back, don't let a few negative posters put you off. Ignore them (can you block posters on here so you don't see their posts?).

SayCoolNowSayWhip Thu 24-Oct-13 13:01:51

Did the OP reply to any of the PMs? Hope she's ok.

ginslingingfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 13:30:47

You owe the OP a massive apology. Have you any idea what you've done? Actions of a self centred individual those were and you don't belong in relationships

wannaBe Thu 24-Oct-13 13:37:54

the thread wasn't derailed by cfd. it was derailed by everyone piling in to respond to her. Seriously, can people not see that? She posted a post, if no-one had responded it would have just been there in the rest of the posts, no not very well posted but still, one post. The derailers aren't the posters, they are the responders.

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 13:42:01

Ginslinging, Charity has apologized.

ubik Thu 24-Oct-13 13:44:38

Mumsnet has eaten itself

ginslingingfucker Thu 24-Oct-13 13:58:17

My apologies - i missed it.

AndTheBandPlayedForAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 14:04:59

Hi youvegotmail
I hope you are ok.
My imression is that your dh is completely besotted or infatuated with this woman. I just reread your OP and it is just strange that it is a long distance, technology enabled, connection (imho, more than "friendship" but less than a full blown physical "relationship"). I think it is an emotional affair on his side, but can I say that it might be innocent on the part of the woman? Could she, in her youth, be naive and just kind of go along with being polite and not understand the boundaries of what is inappropriate? It can, imho, be a time boundary that she apparently just does not have a clue about.

I am curious as to the hobby they share that could be so time intensive. Can you lets us know what that is?

I was thinking about this this morning, and I also wonder if your dh's coworkers, at his daily location, know about his "obsessive" communications with her. If they do, he may be presenting them with oodles of entertainment at the water cooler as he may very well be playing the fool here. That may be a way you could get through to him: he is publically embarrassing himself.

That will have an effect on you and your relationship. I am not very good at naming emotions, but, imho, the posters who say he is disrespecting you is the foundation, with humiliation, embarrassment, and perhaps some shame (derived from the emotional abandonment that occurs when his attention is over invested on her, instead of on you where it should be). Big ouch.

You have every right to be pissed off.

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 14:07:24

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 14:08:40

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 24-Oct-13 14:09:12

<agrees with Zing>

Heartbrokenmum73 Thu 24-Oct-13 14:42:19

Also agree with Zing.

CFD's contributions have been snide and purely for provocation.

The 'apology' was sarcastic at best and not meant.

How CFD is still here while AF gets suspended is beyond me...

AmyMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 24-Oct-13 14:50:08

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your reports about this thread.

We do understand your concerns and we have been through the thread to delete posts which broke our talk guidelines. We have also taken steps behind the scenes based on your reports.

Please flag anything up to us that you think we have missed.

For those of you who wanted to know a bit more about what happened with AnyFucker, Justine has posted here:

We hope the OP feels able to return as we know you are all really concerned about her thanks.

ginslinger Thu 24-Oct-13 14:50:40

Uh uh zing got done

CDF strikes me as the kind of person who takes a good deal of trouble when laundering their clothes.

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 15:03:02

deleted? why? for telling the truth and being clumsy....confused

steppemum Thu 24-Oct-13 15:20:38


you deleted OP post from last night where she said she wouldn't post because CDF post was so hurtful

I understand that her post quoted CDF and that quote had to be deleted, but deleting her whole post makes a mockery of everything posted since and the thread now doesn't make sense.

Surely you can just edit so it says

''quote from previous post deleted''

and then let the rest of her post stand?

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 16:09:24

I think exactly the same thing MmeDefarge.thlsmile

AndTheBandPlayedForAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 16:14:49

<<by chance, saw posts before they were deleted>>
Thank you for your recent posts concerning the dynamics of sincere vs disingenuous participation on Mumsnet. It is (was hmm) a very astute observation, imho.

AmyMumsnet, et al MNHQ, I can only hope that MNHQ can revamp their policies to effectively limit, if not dispense with, antagonistic self-serving pontifications made for entertainment value at the expense of the innocent OP. I am not saying that that is what has happened here specifically or recently, but it is something that seems to have seeped into the relationship board (where I spend most of my MNing time) and I believe would protect the integrity of Mumsnet if this issue could be effectively managed. Thanks for your help.

<<guessing 50/50 odds that this post will disappear too>>

QuintsHollow Thu 24-Oct-13 16:18:10

What lengths does MNHQ have to go to, in order to protect trolls?

ZingAnyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 16:22:57


OP's post about being hurt got deleted?! ffs!

<considering setting up ZingNet>


Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 16:54:11

Do it Zing grin

ZingNet Thu 24-Oct-13 17:01:45


next I'm running for Mayor.

sorry OP, I don't mean to upset you by playing silly games on your thread. I hope you are ok.thanks

UrsulaRocks Thu 24-Oct-13 17:08:04

Been following this thread as a similar thing happened to me. Dh thought I was mad until the woman in question admitted to their joint friend she was after him. Hope you're ok.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 17:12:04

OP we are just chatting whilst we wait for you to return. How did it go, come and tell us all about it.

If you don't want to post on this thread, start a new one and post a link.

ginslinger Thu 24-Oct-13 17:20:41

when it all goes to fields round here will someone send me a pm with the new place please

Housesellerihope Thu 24-Oct-13 17:30:28

I just hope you're ok, OP. Very unfortunate that all this came to a head on your thread and especially the timing of CFD's last comment which must have been very upsetting. I know it's really easy to overlook all the kindness and caring comments and focus on the nasty one when you're feeling down. Being upset anyway, any insult is magnified and anything negative stands out. But try your best to see the positives as well and to objectively see how many more of them there are than snide comments.

HangingGardenOfBabbysBum Thu 24-Oct-13 17:30:47

A colleague of mine had an affair with a MM she met through work.

He told her that he was madly in love with her and they would be together eventually but he could not leave his unstable wife and children.

Instead, they agreed to be friends; they worked together on a huge research project that involved late nights and weekends and on several occasions he invited my colleague to dinner at his house.

His wife later told me that she knew what was going on because he badgered her about making the house look good, what my colleague would eat, what her favourite wine was and, what a coincidence, what he should wear.

He fucked with her mind for months because, in his head, it was a friendship and I think he genuinely believed that he was being honourable by staying with his wife.

My colleague tired of his nonsense and ended things. I believe the MM and his wife had a lot of counselling and they are still together.

My long-winded point is, you know your DH. Instinct is a powerful thing and we ignore it at our peril.

Would your DH skip about like this for a bloke?

I have found that my life is infinitely better when I am not caught in the loony no mans land of seeing and thinking one thing and being told something completely different.

I hope you ignore the local noise here and that things work out to your advantage. There are many people here who can offer support.

Best wishes to you.

ZingMayor Thu 24-Oct-13 17:34:32

had to be done.wink

scarymuff is right OP-, we are only bantering in your absence, hoping that you return or start a new thread.(do link)

you so clearly need support and there are a lot of people trying to help you.

AF will be back and if her suspension bothers you, it shouldn't, it is not your fault!
No-one blames you for what went down!
You can get this thread deleted if it caused you further pain.

we can not know for sure what is going on between your husband and the friend (and btw just what a stupid thing that people were berating you for calling her the OW?! your thread, who cares what you called herangry)
but if I were you I'd be suspicious too. I hope you come back or that you can get help through some PMs.

I wish you all the best. (hugs) thanks

mammadiggingdeep Thu 24-Oct-13 17:37:01

De lurking to say I'm so sorry your thread got hi jacked.

I hope you're ok, I hope you have people in rl to discuss this with.

If you feel the need then why not pm done posters you feel have understood you.

PTFO Thu 24-Oct-13 18:15:21

op, how'd it go?

Apileofanyfuckers Thu 24-Oct-13 18:43:09

I hope you are ok, mail. I read this and your other thread. It's horrible that your thread ended up in the middle of all MN mess.

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 18:44:11

If it helps, OP, I expect CFD has been banned too, so it's (probably) safe for you to come back.

AnyWiseyFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 18:46:09

I have found that my life is infinitely better when I am not caught in the loony no mans land of seeing and thinking one thing and being told something completely different.

That is what mail is struggling with. I hope your mind is at rest.

youvegotmail Thu 24-Oct-13 20:45:43

Thank you for all the replies and for the PMs. I promise I do really appreciate everybody who has taken the the time to give me wise and genuine advice on here or via pm. I will reply to the Pms when I'm a bit more together about everything.

I feel a bit silly about getting so upset about the post last night - I was really emotional, had had a few drinks and feeling mocked just felt like the last straw.

I think I'll start a new thread when I feel a bit braver! Thank you again.

Coolforcatz Thu 24-Oct-13 20:49:15

Proper update needed.

Why? OP will update as and when she feels when wants to, if ever. This thread is for her benefit not a serial drama.

Hope you are well OP, and last night hasn't worsened the situation. flowers

DownstairsMixUp Thu 24-Oct-13 20:53:44

Hope you are ok youvegotmail glad you are feeling a bit braver, will hope to see your new thread soon.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 24-Oct-13 20:57:39

Coolforcatz.....that really wasn't cool.

cloudskitchen Thu 24-Oct-13 20:57:58

I'm sorry if I've missed it (and that your thread seems to have not run smoothly shock ) but have you had your dinner? how did it go?

eatmydust Thu 24-Oct-13 20:58:07

Thanks for coming back youvegotmail. Don't worry you have nothing to feel silly about. We are here when you are ready to start posting again. Hope last night wasn't too awful for you

DioneTheDiabolist Thu 24-Oct-13 21:00:59

Oh Youvegotmail, you have nothing to apologise for. Hope you're OK.thlsmile

ProphetOfDoom Thu 24-Oct-13 21:01:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coolforcatz Thu 24-Oct-13 21:02:18

Why so sensitive? And I'm not on about the OP either.

She was going to update last night but due to some heartless comments she didn't, there's no harm in asking for an update when people, including me, are genuinely interested in how she's getting on.

The OP needs support, not a pack of frigging Rottweilers 'protecting' her.

BouquetFanjo Thu 24-Oct-13 21:04:15

Coolforcatz, this isn't flipping eastenders.
Have a bit of respect for the OP.
You know the person behind the posts, with a real life, head wrecking situation.

Youvegotmail, look after yourself.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 24-Oct-13 21:12:48


1) I'm not being sensitive 2) it is not up to you to demand a proper update 3) she explained she'd start a new thread etc etc 4) how do you get from a few people calmly commenting on your post that there are a pack of Rottweilers???

Is it me or are there an influx of posters who just want to antagonise. Most of which I don't recognise their names so maybe they're newbies who don't quite understand how threads work.

This thread has had enough aggro I think.

Coolforcatz Thu 24-Oct-13 21:26:14

This thread has more than enough aggro indeed, so stop ruining her thread.

youvegotmail Thu 24-Oct-13 21:29:26

Coolforcatz I don't know if you realise this, but your claim that "there's no harm in asking for an update when people, including me, are genuinely interested in how she's getting on" is in no way reflected by your 'Proper update needed' post. It's abrupt, in no way responds to my posts and is actually quite rude.

I'm stepping away from this now... Thanks again to all lovely peeps.

mammadiggingdeep Thu 24-Oct-13 21:30:43

Take care you'vegotmail....


QuintsHollow Thu 24-Oct-13 21:34:24


Op is not posting for our entertainment. I am sure she would like to put this charged thread behind her and move on.

There will be plenty of advice for her when she gathers her thoughts and posts.

Good luck, youvegotmail. I wish you all the best and hope you find clarity and support. smile and wine and cake

ZombieZing Thu 24-Oct-13 21:42:34


all the best thanks, I hope you get the advice and help you need asap and that one way or the other your relationship with your husband gets sorted.

and I think you know who amongst us are here to try and help and who are here guided only by "morbid" curiosity - so best to concentrate on the former!wink

all the best thanks

AlfalfaFucker Thu 24-Oct-13 22:17:55

I have an immense amount of respect for you op, you know how to cut through the crap both here and in rl flowers

Scarymuff Thu 24-Oct-13 22:52:11

Come back when you are ready OP, with a new thread. If you want any posters here to come over to your new thread, you can pm us. Hope you're ok, take care.

Grumpasaurus Sun 27-Oct-13 21:09:16

This is my first post.

I have been in a very similar situation to this. I was (and still am!!) really close to an old colleague of mine, who is about a decade older than me, and has a wife and two young girls.

We used to email and text quite a lot when we still worked together, and always went for walks at lunch. We even travelled abroad together a few times. The only way I can describe our relationship is to say that we were like long lost siblings. I didn't fancy him, and vice versa. He offered me a lot of guidance professionally, and I think I was a good sounding board for him.

His wife also invited me for dinner shortly after I moved to the UK. I have no idea whether this was on the basis of jealousy or not; it didn't appear to be on the face of it. Now I baby sit for them, have their girls on over night visits, stay over at theirs, etc. This relationship has continued for over five years; they have been a constant for me throughout my dating life, and have welcomed my new husband into our little circle openly.

So, dare I go out on a limb, and suggest that it really MAY just be that they are good friends? People can connect on so many different levels; if your husband is open with you and includes you in parts of their relationship, and is otherwise a good and loving husband...I would say you are a lucky lady who may make some new friends!

garlicvampire Sun 27-Oct-13 22:50:17

Grumpasaurus, your friend's wife's dinner evidently set her mind at rest. I don't get the impression mail's evening was quite so reassuring ...

garlicvampire Sun 27-Oct-13 22:53:27

... I've also been on both sides of this, as it happens. A few weeks after my extremely tense evening, busting a gut to be friends with XH's assistant, he announced he was in love with her.

I've often wished I'd had Mumsnet back then - but not if my thread had gone like this one!

CalamityKate Mon 04-Nov-13 20:50:32

Hope you're OK OP.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Thu 07-Nov-13 00:18:22

Hi youvegotmail
How are you doing?

fromparistoberlin Thu 07-Nov-13 09:55:22


I have read thread (jesus) and I think you are being very normal, human and reasonable to be honest

I dont think you are "insecure", and I think he has crossed boundaries and has convinced himself its OK

I think that I had an EA, and I stopped engaging with this chap as (a) it pissed P off and (b) I had a couple of filthy dreams about them blush

what I am trying to say is that deep down your DH knopws this is wrong, but it sounds like he is in massive denial

AND this might all run its couyrse

but I think you are right to be concerned and dinner party is a cunning plan

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