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He was fucking lying...

(206 Posts)

Some users on here are going to say "I told you so" but I said I'd hold my hands up if I found out he was lying to me.

He cheated on me with my best friend. He looked me square in my face and told me afterwards it made him feel sick and he would cut all contact with her.

He's been telling her he loves her and he left me for her.

I am literally shaking with rage as I type this.

AnandaTimeIn Wed 16-Oct-13 15:48:43

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

You have been betrayed by the two people who should have your best interests at heart.

Time to move on, I'd say.

((hugs))

H2Ointolerant Wed 16-Oct-13 15:56:09

Ach you poor thing, what a pair of amoral wankers.

I think I remember your thread and won't say 'I told you so' at all, it was all very plausible, moment of madness etc etc.

You'll get such fantastic support on here, day and night, to help you through this horrible time. It's hard but this, this moment right now, is probably the worst bit. It will get better in time.

DuchessFanny Wed 16-Oct-13 15:59:33

I didn't read your other thread, but wanted to come on and say how sorry I am. What a pair of arseholes !!!!

I'm sure someone will come along with some great advice soon, but just wanted to show you support ..

H2Ointolerant Wed 16-Oct-13 16:01:35

I reckon there was a single white female scenario with your "friend" what with the intensity of the new friendship between you all. (Hope I'm remembering the right thread here.) There really are people like that out there and they truly, truly have deep and serious problems. Sailing off into the sunset together is not likely for them.

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 16:06:07

I too remember your thread. How did you find out?

She told me...but everything she's said adds up. He's been arrested for getting into a fight with her ex (they both have).

According to her he's used her address as his bail address and she's his point of contact. Tells me everything.

If she's lying he can prove it when he gets out, but I really don't think she is to be honest. Lots of things add up now.

H2O - yes that was the one.

itsmeisntit Wed 16-Oct-13 16:10:43

If he can lie to your face so convincingly he is not the man you thought he was and you are better off without being married to a liar and a cheat.
Hold your head high you have done nothing wrong except trust 2 people who have now stabbed you in the back.

She wants nothing to do with him, he's been lying to her as well. A mutual friend was round when we were messaging and I've spoken to her. She's left his stuff outside her house.

I know I'm only going on what she's said, I'm going to hold all my anger off until I've spoken to him, but I think he was playing us off against each other.

I'm in shock I think...I feel numb and tingly and my ears are ringing.

cozietoesie Wed 16-Oct-13 16:16:03

I trust you're getting rid of her as a friend as well?

Pancakeflipper Wed 16-Oct-13 16:16:46

Oh Scarlett. What a ridiculous fool he is.

H2Ointolerant Wed 16-Oct-13 16:17:40

She's full of shit imo. He will move back in with her, mark my words.

She wants to pretend to you she is somehow blameless/wronged. But she hasn't put all his stuff outside at all or has done it for shock value or appearances. Could be wrong of course!

Imo you need to stop speaking to either of them about this - just your ex about contact with your DC, and that by email or text. All communication will just make a bad situation worse for you.

Yes, there's no going back there. I thought me and DH could work through this but not now. I could maybe live with a moment of madness, given his current emotional state, but he had every chance to be honest with me, I flat out asked him if anything was going on so I could get my head round it, so at least I knew where I stood. He stayed here Monday night, nothing happened between us but we talked a lot and he said she was poison and he was going to cut all ties.

It IS possible she's lying, but a few things are falling into place.

You're probably right H2O. We'll see. I just don't know who to trust or what to believe any more. I'm questioning everything everyone has EVER said to me now. Am I too trusting?

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 16:23:09

I agree with H2O, I wouldn't trust her either. She's not your friend in this.

CackleCackle Wed 16-Oct-13 16:26:08

You may not know who to trust. But you know who not to trust - both of them are untrustworthy.

flowers

I don't trust her, but I know he's been lying about things. I'm going to let him have his say, but I don't trust either of them. I thought because he'd come clean about that one night that he was being straight with me. He honestly seemed heartbroken about what had happened. Is it really possible she's making all this up?

I guess I'll know once he's released. There'll be evidence of the bail address.

BeCool Wed 16-Oct-13 16:42:32

If she's kicked him out, surely he'll be back around to you with a bunch of more lies. I doubt you can believe a word he says.

I don't recall your earlier thread but I'm really sorry you are going through this.

I agree with Cackle both of them are untrustworthy. But at this point it sounds like he has the most to lose and will lie lie lie to you lots more if he thinks it will work.

"He honestly seemed heartbroken about what had happened." - be very careful not to confuse devastation for himself that he has been caught/kicked out/etc with heartbreak for hurting YOU!

H2Ointolerant Wed 16-Oct-13 16:44:34

Honestly, why let him have his say?

It is very likely to be a load of old bull. But how could you know either way? Does it matter really if things are over between you?

You might feel momentarily better as his story seems to ring true for that minute. But then all the details will swirl around and around in your head like some sort of twisted Miss Marple trying to make it all add up for months and years afterwards. Ignorance is bliss when it doesn't change the outcome one iota.

Mellowandfruitful Wed 16-Oct-13 16:48:08

Both are untrustworthy. Your H has slept with someone else and lied about it. Your 'best friend' has slept with your husband - what kind of best friend does that? There's no excuse. Bear in mind each will be telling you the story that puts them in the best light, but none of their stories will be the full truth if at all.

I don't think the bail address matters, tbh. You can do better than having either of these people in your life. Not worth it.

To be completely fair (and I'm not defending him), he came clean about sleeping with her. He told me pretty much straight away. He's lied since then about having contact with her.

But then, how do I know? I know there's no excuse, it's just the situation I was starting to get my head around and deal with is now a load of shit so I've got to start all over again.

My head is banging. I'm trying to eat something.

I feel like I'm going to pass out. Does shock do that to you?

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 17:00:45

You need to eat. And breathe.

Feel a little better, have eaten something. Head is still banging though. I'm just sitting on the sofa for a bit. DD is playing a ukelele next to me....which is lovely but my head hurts.

Whatnext074 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:07:07

I'm so sorry for you

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 17:11:16

How long will it be until he's released?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 16-Oct-13 17:11:33

I suspect you're as angry at yourself for being shown up as a fool as you are angry at him for lying. Once the immediate shock wears off try to retain some of that indignant fury. It'll make recovery a lot quicker. Good luck

lunar1 Wed 16-Oct-13 17:16:37

I remember your last thread I think, I'm so sorry you are going through all this.

I don't know Vivacia, I called them about an hour ago and they said it would be a couple of hours. If he's out before DD's bedtime he might try and come here before he goes anywhere else. Despite all his faults he loves DD and will want to see her. He has no clue that I've heard all this.

And you're right Cogito - I feel like a mug. I really do

Oh God, I don't even know why I posted that...I was in the middle of writing it and he showed up. I texted him so he'd get it when he got his phone back, telling him I knew. He's just been here and he blew up at me. He says she's lying and she's been saying she loves him and wants him to stay but he said he couldn't be around her because he wants to be with me.

I haven't got a clue what to believe. It's such a fucking mess, I can't hold it together.

They are behaving terribly scarlet, don't listen to him, you felt so much stronger the other day planning your future as a great single mum. Keep focused on that. He has been messing with your head for ages.

MoreThanWords Wed 16-Oct-13 17:50:48

Have you established where he put as the bail address?

I'm so sorry you've having to go through this.

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 17:51:43

I agree with Euphemism this is all messing with your head. It's ok to ask for space and time to gather your thoughts.

You can hold it together. You can.

Meerka Wed 16-Oct-13 17:51:48

Don't think anyone expects a punch in the face out of the blue from someone they've trusted, loved, and made a daughter with. Nor from a best friend!

Not everyone is like that. Honest. There are a lot of people out there who have integrity and decency. I suspect you're in shock atm, please take as much care of yourself as you can. Might find yourself wandering like a lost ghost tonight. Any chance of a good family member or a true friend coming over?

mcmooncup Wed 16-Oct-13 17:55:14

It all sounds like a terrible drama.

Time to go cold turkey and find some peace OP. i.e. cut all the contact and gather your thoughts.

kinkyfuckery Wed 16-Oct-13 17:56:01

He is lying. If he were telling the truth, why did he get so cross at what you were accusing him of?

Better off without.

Meerka Wed 16-Oct-13 17:56:46

Seeing as he's violent - are you and your daughter safe??

If nothing else, he's just been released on bail for beating someone up. You do not need a man without self control in your house tonight, who gets carried away and sleeps with your best friend and hits other people. Or any other night.

I think you need them both out of your life, both of them are poison for you.

mummytime Wed 16-Oct-13 17:57:33

At present of course you don't know who to believe. But give yourself space without either of them.

If he really wants to make it up to you he needs to give you at least a month of no contact to get your head together. Also refuse to have any contact from her. Tell others not to bring up the subject to you.

Then take time to sort out your thoughts and feelings. Also find out everything you need practically. See a Solicitor just to know where you stand. Talk to your GP and see if you can get counselling.

He won't hurt us. I know that much about him.

I just feel ripped in a million directions.

He used her address because he had a sleeping tablet on him, one his mate had given him as he hadn't been sleeping (I know this to be true) and he didn't want me to have to deal with a possible police raid. Well that's what he says anyway.

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 18:01:29

That's a laughably poor excuse.

TeaAndSconesTwice Wed 16-Oct-13 18:03:09

What a ridiculous excuse, a police raid? From a sleeping tablet? Since when did things like this ever happen!

Best thing you can do is cut all this ballshit out and try to move on with your life, he is obviously a liar.

I wish I could stop caring about him...I don't know how. I just feel broken.

AmberLeaf Wed 16-Oct-13 18:05:31

So sorry Scarlet.

I thought he was lying from your last thread. I know it is hard to see from the 'inside' but it usually comes into the light eventually.

Personally, I wouldn't trust anything he says and him blowing up at you is typical of a person who is on the defensive.

He fought her EX? that doesn't sound like something someone who wasn't interested in her would do tbh.

You are not a mug, you are just of a higher caliber than they are. When you are a decent person it is easy to presume everyone else is. They have shown themselves in this. You deserve better.

My god the man is a compulsive liar.

You really need to detach from him. He is your child's father but he is no longer your partner. Life will be soooo much better without him and his drama.

AmberLeaf Wed 16-Oct-13 18:10:42

You will stop caring about him. You need to see this for what it is and get angry at him first though. The best way to do that is to look at what he does and not what he says

JaceyBee Wed 16-Oct-13 18:11:08

A fucking sleeping tablet??!! Is he for real??!! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Love, he's bullshitting you! Plain and simple. You may not be able to stop caring for him but you can sure as hell stop letting him take you for a mug. You're better than this!

PedantMarina Wed 16-Oct-13 18:14:01

Can anybody please link to the last thread?

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 18:16:02

You don't have to turn your caring feelings off. You just need to not act on them. If that makes sense?

To be completely fair, it's just a tablet, they have to send it to labs for tests because it could be anything, he's been bailed for possession as well until the tests come back (I've seen the paperwork). I know someone who's house was raided after they were found with plant food tablets.

Doesn't mean I believe him, but I'm a not complete idiot.

Here it is PedantMarina

There are other going into his mental health, but that's the main one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1878373-My-world-has-just-fallen-apart

lazarusb Wed 16-Oct-13 18:23:39

Amber has made a good point - why was he fighting with her ex if there was nothing going on between them?

Vivacia Wed 16-Oct-13 18:24:56

I wouldn't give him the luxury of being completely fair to him.

MillyMillyMe Wed 16-Oct-13 18:25:30

I remember your thread last week. You had decided that you wanted to be single anyway even though you believed his story. You had said that it was completely over for you. By what you have said here it would seem that you are very very hurt by what the so called friend has told you but as I said to you, there will be lots more to come to light over the next weeks and months. You have to expect the worse from all this.
I think you also need to prepare yourself that they have been doing this Affair for a long time.

Well I'll tell you what he told me, but I don't know how true it is. After his doctors appointment yesterday he went there to get his stuff that had been left from when he stayed there. He was then going to come here and see DD before he went to hospital, I knew all of this was happening. He has a suitcase of stuff there that he needed to get. Her ex was dropping off her daughter and DH was there and he obviously knows what happened between them (he's jealous and abusive as well) and so they had an argument that got out of hand. They were both arrested.

That's what he told me.

I had come to terms with the fact we weren't going to be together, I just thought he was being honest and it would be amicable. How wrong I was.

str8tothepoint Wed 16-Oct-13 18:34:06

Why after all the shit he has put you through are you even contemplating taking this dickhead back?? You'll end up like this for rest of your life wondering what he's doing is he lying

Meerka Wed 16-Oct-13 18:41:12

str8to, don't think ScarlettLady has said she's thinking of taking him back unless I missed a post?

Think she is just in serious mental shock atm and Mumsnet is being a friend to her. Whatever the actual facts and events are, even if she ever finds out exactly what happens, I think she knows he's utterly untrustworthy now.

This man is either a fantasist (being kind) or thinks you button up the back.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 18:49:34

I understand your shock, but please don't say'to be fair' You have no need to be fair so that he doesn't sound so bad. Live as if everything he tells you is a lie and then you won't be disappointed. He will tell you some truths to try and make his lies more plausible.
Try and get some more food and good company tonight then try and get some sleep.
Concentrate on looking after your needs, not what may or may not be true.

MillyMillyMe Wed 16-Oct-13 18:49:39

Scarlett just be gentle with yourself. Be prepared to find out sooo much more over the coming weeks. Its hard cause the man who stands in front of you is still the man you love and its all so unreal isn't it. As others have said above, you are in shock from today and in shock from last week and you are just managing to cope. Keep posting and talking to us so at least you are not letting the thoughts and what is said go round and round in your mind, ok. smile

I wasn't trying to make him look plausible although I can see why it came across like that. I was just stating those facts so it didn't make me look quite so stupid to be honest.

I was thinking of working through things before this, but I honestly didn't think we'd be able to. The trust had gone, even more so now, and I knew I'd never be able to live with that. It's just hard to deal with the fact of the lies that's all. I was always making excuses for him because of his past and I can't do that any more.

You are worth so much more than this. He's taken your love and caring and crapped all over you.
You are a lovely, kind, articulate, smart woman. He is pond life.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 19:15:42

Oh no my lovely you aren't looking stupid at all> I'm sure a lot of us started by believing them - we loved them and trusted them so why wouldn't we? I just didn't want you to feel you needed to explain himsmile

Mellowandfruitful Wed 16-Oct-13 19:17:10

He has a lot of nerve 'blowing up' at you. All this has come about because of his own deceit and bad behaviour. If his partner-in-deceit is lying about him, he can hardly blame you for that or for listening to it. Tell him you really need space and you want to hear nothing at all from him for the moment. Same for her.

I've calmed down a bit now. DD is in bed and I've taken one of my diazepam (I have them for emergencies).

I've spoken to him, he's not coming back tonight which is a good thing. We both need to calm down. I don't want to be with him, but I want things to be civil for DD. He wants the same.

Leavenheath Wed 16-Oct-13 19:54:39

I was on your last thread and I'm not going to come out with that mealy-mouthed stuff about hoping I was wrong. In fact I hoped you'd find out I was right so you wouldn't be tempted to take him back. Despite everything you were saying on that thread, it was obvious you'd relent.

I think you might still actually. But this man is so clearly playing both of you off against eachother and if you believe even one word that comes out of his mouth, within a short while you'll be reuniting and regarding the OW as the common enemy, just like I said on the thread. If you end this now, he'll go to her and will try to recruit her to side with him against you.

I wish I could sit down with you both and tell the pair of you how you're both being manipulated by a lying man. Obviously I'd have stronger words with her because she was having and affair with him and knew he was a liar but still...

You're brave to come back and tell us all this, but now do take the advice and end this thing. Refuse to engage in this bloody drama triangle. The poster on your other thread who shrewdly observed that this was always a sinister triangle was spot on. I know I asked how long you'd known this woman, but you didn't answer till after I'd left the thread.

Hissy Wed 16-Oct-13 19:57:07

I think you'd really benefit from keeping him and her well away from you.

We'll be here for you lovey! All that fog of liés will just drive you do-lally.

You're worth a billion of the pair of them.

I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Things are done between us. I just want him to be there for DD.

I'm so fucking tired. I feel like I've had the shit kicked out of me.

Go and find something distracting to watch/read with a milky drink (or vodka).
The pills will be kicking in and you need to rest.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 20:09:11

If you are feeling tired then go to bed, The sleep will do you the world of good and your brain will have a good few hours rest.

lazarusb Wed 16-Oct-13 20:10:32

Of course you feel physically exhausted, not to mention emotionally. Have a warm bubble bath, put on a film, hot chocolate...look after you for a bit. Find a distracting or fun film though - nothing sickly romantic! Actually...maybe something violent would be good wink

I have no alcohol, probably a good thing with the tablets, I tend to drink more than I should when I drink, especially lately.

Got some trashy telly on. Think I've got hot chocolate somewhere. Haven't eaten much today so just eating something now.

I have a friend coming round tomorrow afternoon with her little girl. Should help take my mind off things.

I like zombie films lazarusb I'm not a "chick flick" kinda girl.

Why does love make you an idiot? I love him so much, I don't know how to stop. I wish we'd just stayed friends, there's so much I'm going to miss about "us". I know that sounds silly in the light of everything but our relationship was 95% brilliant. It's going to be hard to say goodbye to that. I will though, I don't think I've got it in me to keep him in my life. It's destroying me mentally. The 5% is so hard.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 20:17:44

Scarlet, I am so sorry x

Love, you keep typing the words that it's over between you. I don't think you even believe them yourself.

When you have calmed down, you are going to listen to him again. Just "to be fair to him". And you are going to get sucked in. Again.

sad

I don't know how to stop...I just don't know what to do. You're right, and it's so fucking self-destructive, I just can't help it. What the fuck do I do?

I can see the logic...I just can't feel it. Why am I like this, I just feel broken,

I am not a stupid person so why am I being like this? If it was one of my friends in this position, I'd be saying what you're all saying. Is this what it's like when you're stuck in an abusive relationship?

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 20:25:58

Is this how you want your life to be, and that of your daughter ?

All this drama ? Fighting, lying, getting arrested, doubt, anguish ?

You can stop it. It is within your power when you take it back for yourself. It's your choice.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 20:27:28

The best thing I think to do is to take things very slowly and make no decisions until you have to. Take it one step at a time, what you have to do tonight, in the morning, after lunch etc. when you are ready you will know what you want to do. Don't worry or over think and most importantly don't expect his companionship or support live your life as if you will never have that again.
It is hard, crap and heartbreaking but in the long run we are happier if you can think of it sooner rather than later, but the mos important is to really be aware of what you want and need and the pace you want to go at.x

Leavenheath Wed 16-Oct-13 20:28:11

What you do is withdraw and look on.

If you relent now and take him back, it will be the worst mistake you ever make.

Withdraw, stop him coming to the house, communicate by e mail only and then just about contact arrangements- and if you can get someone else to do the handovers for a while, all the better.

Watch what he does. Meanwhile, grieve and start creating a single life.

No...I can't live like this. I just don't know how to stop the feelings. I can't HELP worry about him. I can't stop it. I wish I could just hate him.

I'm such a peaceful passive person and I KNOW for a fact DD would be better off without all this. I need to be strong for her, but I don't feel strong. I feel like I'm failing her.

lazarusb Wed 16-Oct-13 20:34:20

Yes it is. Even despite all the horrible abuse my ex subjected me to, there were times leading up to me leaving when I wondered how we'd got there. I kept thinking about good times. When we had things to look forward to. About how the one person I wanted to be there for me is the last person who would be there.

It's shit and it really hurts. I'm glad you're eating a bit though, you do need to take care of yourself. I'm also glad you don't like chick flicks (although I'm scared of anything vaguely horrifying!).

You're not really there yet but you'll feel the anger soon. When you do it will make a difference. You'll start to disassociate and move away from him emotionally. Offload here though, there are many people here who will support you through this and onwards.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 20:35:00

You have to fake it until you make it.

Go Cold Turkey No Contact

It's the only way. You won't listen to any advice though while you are making yourself part of the drama

choose to walk away from it

You are not powerless. He's just a man. A really fucking rubbish one. He is not worth this.

I was angry earlier, it was helping me. Now I've seen him and he's put doubt in my head again I'm so confused. I just don't know who or what to believe. It's making me question other friendships. I tend to isolate myself when I'm depressed and I get very paranoid...well this is making that worse.

I just didn't ever think, despite all his faults, that he could ever do this to me. I thought his love was real.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 20:37:42

I don't think you are being paranoid.

I just mean, I don't like to talk to people because I worry about opening up to them. I know I'm not being paranoid about this, but I've always been a nervous paranoid person, and this has just reinforced that because now I know that sometimes that voice needs to be listened to.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 20:57:03

You have talked to us. We have listened. We will carry on listening if you want us to. And if you want advice, we will give you that too. Whether you take it or not.

Albert27 Wed 16-Oct-13 20:58:52

Hey there. I remember all your posts and you have bent over backwards to help this man... and I'm struggling to call him that to be honest.

You were so strong when you told him enough was enough. And enough is still ENOUGH.

This man is destroying your sanity and robbing you of your self esteem. Tell him to back the fuck off!!

None of us like to think the people we love want to hurt us but HE IS hurting you, my lovely.

Someone once said we only get the love we think we deserve - could have been a cheesy romcom could have been bloody gandi- but you deserve a damn sight better. You just need to start believing that. So right now it is all about you and your DD.

Try to move away from the details of his lies and just realise he is a liar and a cheat. And there is no room for that kind of man or individual in your life. Remind yourself what you would advise others in this situation.

You can get this toxic man out of your life. And you will. X

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 20:59:15

I am 2 years down the line and still don't have anger or hate for H. You don't have to be angry or hateful to spilt up. You can still love him and care for him, but you don't have to listen to him or live with him, Don't be so hard on yourself and don't think you have to do things in a certain way.xx

I respect your posts so much ScaryFucker, I always read them and think "yes! that's right!". It's hard when it's your own life. I feel like I don't deserve better and I don't know why. I know I'm a pretty fucking amazing person (without sounding big-headed grin )...but knowing something and feeling it aren't the same thing. I'm waiting for counselling at the moment, I'm hoping it'll help. I sought it before all this, just on a waiting list.

I just feel lost. I haven't been single since I was 15 and I'm now 30. I got with DH very quickly after my ex. I'm terrified. I don't even know who I am.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:06:48

It's so easy for someone on the outside to say what would be best for you to do. Keyboard warriors and all that.

There is no way to dress it up though. If someone told you that you can work through this, that everything would be ok, that he is just a troubled man you wouldn't believe them. You know this in your head. Your heart will take longer to catch up.

But is has to...or what is the alternative ? You live like this, waiting for the next axe to fall on your head. You are right, that is not fair on your dd.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:08:08

I was having counselling when H got OW and it carried me through. I am 54 and we were together since 16, I was going to counselling to find out who I was! Remember doing a course and one of the tasks was to look at who were and what we did for fun. I cried I was 50 years old and didn't know what I did for fun, I am learning and it is so peaceful being me, I remember reading somewhere that it we live as we were created to be its easy but if we try and live as someone else wants us to be then its always hard. It is a wobbly time when you are not sure but wonderful as you start to step out and learnx

It's not. She's amazing and has been my rock for me these last few days. She's young enough to not remember all this shit. but I don't want it affecting her, the way DH's childhood affected him. I'm not justifying his behaviour, but I don't think anyone could go through what he did and not be fucked up in the head. However he needs to take ownership of that and deal with his fucking problems. You can get away with as a troubled teen, but at some point you need to say "No! I will not let this define who I am!"

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:11:39

30 is soooo young. You are one third through your life. It's a cliche, and must be really fucking annoying to have it pointed out to you.

But you owe it to yourself to use the next two thirds in the best way possible. And that means not allowing a man like this to bring you so low.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:11:56

Yes thats so right, also you can still love and understand why he is like he is without letting it ruin you.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:14:42

Being fucked up in the head is absolutely no justification for fucking someone else up the head. Particularly your own child. The sins of the fathers...etc

Your dd witnessing how this is destroying her mummy is going to fuck her up in the head. And on it goes, because she is going to know in a few years exactly what you would be sacrificing to stay with a man like this

Get out and stay out before it gets to that point

You're right cjel. I've tried so hard to help him. I've tried at the expense of my own mental health and I can't do it any more.

It's not a justification, you're right.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:20:10

I feel sorry for incontinent old dogs in the Dogs Home. I know they can't help it. I don't let them come and shit all over my house though.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:20:59

And I can say well done you, please believe me it would never have got better, I tried for 30 years and would always think I was getting somewhere and something else would happen, I think when I got counselling he was threatened by it, I told him he would never break me again and within months had this other woman, my age reminded him of me and didn't want me to go when I found out etc. but in some strange way she did me a favour as I then had an 'acceptable' reason to leave.
I'd tell anyone in your situation - don't stay as long as I did.Like SCARY says you have a long life ahead of you, I don't have so much and I do regret that I'm doing all this at 50 not 30x

Thanks, your support really means a lot. I feel a bit less crazy now.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:23:19

FWIW I can definitely confirm nothing you have done or said on here suggests any crazinessflowers

My head's just been all over the place. I don't know HOW I got through today. But I have. Just like I'll get through the next day and the day after.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:26:37

You will do it for your lovely daughter.

And soon, you will realise you are doing it for yourself too

Now that IS rational thought, OP.
Bang on. Eventually the pain will get more and more bearable till there is no pain left.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:27:29

cjel you sound like such a lovely warm person, what a dick your exH is

PublicEnemyNumeroUno Wed 16-Oct-13 21:32:30

Fucking horrible people.

You will get through this OP, one day at a time thanks

I don't know what I would have done without online support today. I've felt so alone. I feel like I can't trust anyone.

I'm having a Supernatural marathon...Nothing like a perv over Jenson Ackles to heal a broken heart right?

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:34:01

thank you - but I still have that weird feeling when people slag him off of thinking hes not that bad hes just a lost soulconfused. !!!!

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:34:18

I have Grand Designs on in the background. Not exactly a perv-fest but better than a poke in the eye

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:34:44

Old habits, eh, cjel ?

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:36:56

Its quite often when I hear new people living those early days that I realise that I'e come a hundred miles from then.
Every day you move away from today is a day nearer your happy new lifex

I feel like that will be me cjel. I've forgiven him for so much on account of his past. I DO feel for him, he has EVERY right to be angry at the world. Abused children often become very difficult adults. I just can't do it any more. It's ruining my mind. I don't even think about what's best for me...ever. Every thing I do is for him, every thing I do has me worrying about his reaction to it. I can't ever relax. It's exhausting.

You're an inspiration cjel, I'm so glad you're happy now x

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:42:03

Scary -yes but one I will kicksmile
Scarlet you saying how exhausting it is has made me think again. today I am eating chocs with rubbish TV on (same Scary)(( we did build our own - something else that stressed me that I didn't want , but thought poor H he has to have his dreams))
I have warm cosy room to sit in and no longer jump when door or phone goes. you will be here and sooner than you think Scarlet.x

Ledkr Wed 16-Oct-13 21:42:55

I refuse to say I'm sorry. I say congrats for finally finding out the truth and good luck with your new exciting life.
It's hard at first but you will do it and show the fuckers what you are capable of. She will never be able to relax knowing he's a cheating arse!

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:46:01

Scarlet, that just isn't healthy at all. You know this. All your emotional energy is taken up with him.

Imagine how much lighter you will feel when you don't have to worry about him. When every waking moment isn't pandering to his feelings.

When your DD gets all of you instead what is just left over after he has wrung every last drop of misplaced concern out of you

That isn't love. You need to accept this. It is co-dependance (google it).

You are not responsible for his happiness, he doesn''t even want you to be, that is quite plain although I expect he convinces you of this over and over again

he's a grown man. Let him make his own way in life, instead of sapping your energy and self esteem to bolster his fragile self, picking up and using a variety of other needy women to give you a lift along the way

he is an emotional vampire, a whirling black hole of nothingness where his compassion is

counselling will help you, it will. Hang on for it.

When I thought he'd be going in to hospital yesterday I DID feel lighter. I didn't have to worry about him any more. Then all this happens. I hope he sorts it out so he can go in, he's missed his appointment now because he was in custody. He NEEDS help, help that I can't give him. Not any more.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 21:50:40

< nods >

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 21:54:44

Scary yyyx

lazarusb Wed 16-Oct-13 22:19:08

Don't feel responsible for him. He made his choice. He can carry on making them on his own. You are moving forward, slowly. There are some fantastic people on this thread.

BooHissy Wed 16-Oct-13 22:29:45

"Abused children often become very difficult adults"

Pop along to see the Stately Homes threads.

Most of US aren't treating OUR partners and kids like this!

You are what you make of yourself. Don't let ANYONE make excuses for treating you like shit.

Not good enough IS not good enough.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 22:31:38

BOO - maybe it should be 'difficult adults were often abused children'

I didn't mean to imply anything that offended you Boo, I'm sorry.

Leavenheath Wed 16-Oct-13 22:40:29

Do you think you can manage the plan that Scary and I suggested then, love?

It means no personal contact and the point of it is to break your addiction to him, while sending a positive message to him that this is over.

Can you do that?

I don't know....being honest...I don't know...I want to be able to. In strong moments I feel like I can. But right now I feel wretched again...my eyes hurt from crying.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 22:48:47

You didn't offend Hissy, Scarlet.

She is sayign what you are saying yourself. There is no justification for fucking someone else up, no matter how fucked up you are yourself. Ever.

My childhood was not the best (documented on here, in brief and very sporadically). My mother stayed with an emotionally abusive man who started with er and then moved onto his kids. She is still with him, still pandering to him. he has mellowed a little with age, but his core attitudes remain. He was damaged by his own father before him.

I made a vow I would be the opposite of everything my father stood for. I mostly manage it.

BooHissy Wed 16-Oct-13 22:49:22

Oh no, not offended at all! I just wanted you to see that his abuse was no excuse to do as he did to you!

It is so easy to try to look for a reason they do what they do to us. in the absence of reason, they would be monsters, and then how big a fool does that make US?

You have every right to try to make sense out of this, but HE is the one choosing to cheat, lie and generally fuck up your life.

YOU however get to choose who you have in yours.

What he has done is his choice and none of it reflects on us for a second. If anything we are to be lauded to giving these inadequates more of a chance in life than anyone else would!

You need distance to gain decent perspective and to realise how much better life is when you don't have him to mess it all up.

Remember when you thought he was going to go in hospital, so would be out of your hair? Well get rid of him (as he utterly deserves) and you can feel like that AND BETTER, every day!

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 22:52:26

Cry as much as you need to. Get it all out. Rise from the ashes like the woman you want to be. Like the example you can be for your daughter. You can do it. Stay away from him. Cold turkey. Do not allow him to talk you round. Cut him right off, he doesn't deserve your head space.

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 22:53:35

scarlet, the strong moments that you can even consider it are good, even if you don't do it yet, Every good thing starts with a vision.also remember when my eyes felt they couldn't open because they were so swollen with the cryingsad
Maybe time to go to bed if your feeling bad again.? tiredness doesn't help positivity.x

It hurts so much, the day we got married I thought it was forever, I'm just a broken shell of a person now...

Leavenheath Wed 16-Oct-13 22:55:07

Enacting the plan doesn't mean you'll stop hurting, or grieving you know. Nothing and no-one can halt that- it just has to be gone through.

But if you take this bloke back, you'll be hurting and grieving just the same because of what he's done and if you don't take him back but keep seeing or speaking to him, that grief and hurt keeps getting interrupted only to resume and then take much longer to work itself through your system.

Think Scary used the phrase Cold Turkey. That's accurate, but you won't be alone if you get some help with it- and no-one least of all you should expect yourself to be weaned off him overnight.

I don't want him back...I just don't know if I'm ready to stop worrying about him and trying to help him yet. I know the relationship is fucked, but I still want to help him. Why the fuck IS that after everything he's done?

crazynanna Wed 16-Oct-13 22:58:52

Oh fuck scarlet I am so sorry. Really sorry.
You know where I am <<<hugs>>>>

cjel Wed 16-Oct-13 22:59:02

its like picking a scabsad it won't get better while you pick it you have to give it chance to healx

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 23:00:27

Think of it like this. You have been constantly shielding him from the consequences of his actions. Cutting him loose will help him in the end, because he will have to own his decisions and his behaviour.

There is no better lesson than that.

You're right ScaryFucker

I hope it does help him. Think I'm going to take the laptop to bed...don't feel like sleeping yet but maybe getting comfy in the dark will help.

I had a really random weird "I'm going to be totally OK" moment then...not sure where that came from. Something silly like playing stupid facebook games in bed and thinking...I can do what the fuck I like now can't I?

MillyMillyMe Wed 16-Oct-13 23:28:38

Go You Scarlet you will be fine. Just give yourself time to go through it all.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 23:29:55

smile

Savour those little moments. They will come faster and closer together over the next few weeks/months. You have your own little family, you and DD. You don't need a fuckwitted individual spoiling it.

I will...I feel shit again now. Knowing I can have those moments spurs me on though.

ScaryFucker Wed 16-Oct-13 23:39:22

< nods >

FFS...I've started skin picking again...time to try and get some sleep.

Thanks so much for everyone's support. You really don't know how much it means x

MillyMillyMe Thu 17-Oct-13 00:51:50

Scary your nods do make me smilesmile

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 17-Oct-13 01:16:00

<HUG>

You can have lots & lots of those moments now smile You and DD can live a 'lighter' life, she will grow up in a much less stressful home - do this for HER, even if you can't do it for you just now.

It is hard to let go of someone, even when they have treated you really, really badly... love doesn't stop just because they act like a bastard, especially if they had a terrible childhood etc. However, even when you can't change your feelings, you can always change your actions - do what you know you have to do and fake it until you make it feelings wise. It's hard and I wouldn't be back there for all the money in the - but you will come out of the otherside of this and you will wonder why you put up with it for so long.

Anytime you feel your resolve is low - look at your DD and ask yourself if you would want her to be in the relationship you are in - if you stay with him, the chances are she will end up in a relationship much the same sad I know that's not what you want for her, so you have to follow this through. Be strong.

brew

PerpanddickchewerVince Thu 17-Oct-13 05:22:00

The fact that he's lied and patronised you giving such lame excuses is all you need to know, he doesn't deserve you, and you don't deserve all this crap.

You can get through this, and you will move on.

lazarusb Thu 17-Oct-13 09:18:03

Those moments are the seeds of what you can make of your life and yourself. They will become bigger and stronger. Of course you can't just turn your feelings off but, once you have grieved, you will begin to see the lights at the end of the tunnel.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 11:10:50

Morning, Glad you had a glimpse of peace last night, Hope you got good sleep and feel ok this morningx

Morning everyone....feel a bit calmer today. He came round earlier and apologised for shouting, for what it's worth. He's staying with a friend who I know and who I think will be good for him.

Apparently she's telling him she didn't say any of those things to me and I'm making it all up, she's deleted all the messages and stuff from her wall. Well that's what he says anyway (although I know she's deleted the stuff from her wall because I went to show it to him). I have now blocked her. I just don't know who or what to believe any more. Another mutual friend has stuck herself right in the middle and told people things I've told her in confidence so now I feel like I can't talk to anyone about anything. That's all blown up in my face as well (not from him...she's been talking to the OW).

I know we're broken...I know I can't fix it, and I shouldn't have to. He's going to the hospital later and doesn't want any contact from anyone which is fine...if anything it's good for me. Hopefully he will be in a state that is OK for DD when he comes out. She misses him terribly.

I have a friend coming round in a bit who is nothing to do with any of them, what I feel terrible about is I pushed her out a bit in favour of these newer friends...I feel really bad about that. She doesn't know much yet, only that me and DH have split up.

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 13:21:00

You really need to put a stop to him dropping round your house. Start getting him to see DD out of the house and with no need to see you at handovers.

Look, you'll never get to the bottom of who said what to whom, but FFS stay away from people who post their intimate lives on FB walls. And yes, stop talking to these 'mutual friends' who are probably enjoying the drama of it all and are of the same ilk as these Facebook incontinents. All you can be sure of is that he lied to you and she did too. Any further lies are irrelevant really.

Disengage and stay away from the lot of them. Apologise to your friend if you shut her out in favour of these drama llamas. She'll appreciate your acknowledgement of that and will respect you more for being big enough to say sorry.

Please put in some boundaries where he's concerned. After all the advice last night, you really shouldn't have let him in.

Withdraw, disengage. It's the only way to get better.

He wanted to see DD, it put me on the spot, he also needed to pick up some paperwork (I know I know...still with the excuses...give me time). I do actually feel stronger now, sounds silly. I didn't feel how I thought I would when I saw him. I'm cutting all these "friends" out. I've blocked them on facebook and deleted their numbers. I'm very vulnerable, I know that, and only want people around me who I actually trust at the minute. He isn't one of them.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 13:26:14

The friends I have now two years on mostly haven't even met him and its so freeing not to have joints memories, I can be me and not just H and?

step away and don't discuss he will be enjoying the drama and don't let him in anymore.

Just had a call from the therapist my GP referred me to. I have an assessment next week to find out what treatment will be best for me. I'm so glad I don't have to wait ages, hopefully this should help.

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 13:33:00

It takes time to create a new habit, but do it you must.

He can see DD on neutral premises and you can pop any paperwork in an envelope. He'll need to move any of his stuff out at some point soon anyway, but you don't have to be there when he does that if a trusted friend or relative is willing to be in the house at the same time or you trust him not to snoop or steal the family silver.

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 13:34:14

Good news about the therapy smile

I'm a great believer in small shafts of light being sent to show you that life is looking up.

He doesn't really have any neutral premises at the moment, that's the problem. The weather's shit or he'd take her out more. He did got for a walk with her earlier to give me a break.

He's not really looking much past hospital at the moment which I can understand. They'll help him get a place of his own and then things will be much easier.

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 13:49:56

It doesn't rain in cafes or soft play areas. It doesn't even rain every day and when wrapped up, cold fresh air harms no-one. Stop making excuses for him. He doesn't need premises and these contact periods should be short to begin with, especially as he's unwell. Getting his own accommodation might take a long time. Enforce these boundaries and start as you mean to go on. You've got to stop seeing him. Achieve that any way you can.

I know you want to see him and that's why you want to find excuses for still doing it. But it won't wean you off him if you keep doing it.

I know...I'm trying to listen, I really am. It's getting there slowly. I don't particularly want to see him at all at the moment. It just stresses me out and I'm tired of it. I just need to break the habit of trying to help him.

And I just want to say DD is being brilliant today...she's making me laugh pretending to be a pirate and saying a bicycle pump is her telescope (She's nearly 3). She keeps calling me a Silly Billy for crying.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 14:07:26

DD sounds lovely, I took me weeks maybe even months to realise that I shouldn't see H every day, although I always had a good excuse so it seemed I had to . But when I finally stopped seeing him it did become much easier. Just be aware that it will be best for you and when you are ready you will take steps to make it happen, It can't all happen at other peoples pace, it will be best for you at your own pace.

She is lovely...that's what I need to hold on to.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 14:11:57

HOld on tight to the good and the bad will vanish in timex

She's now playing with a tiny spider...he's having a cup of tea apparently. Nice to see I haven't passed my irrational hatred of the eight-legged beasties on to her grin

PerpendicularVincentPrice Thu 17-Oct-13 14:36:10

She sounds great smile.

You've done the right thing cutting out all the people who drag you down. The rule for me is that if someone is making you more sad than happy, the relationship/friendship needs to end.

In a year from now you'll have a new life and new friends, and this will all seem like a distant memory.

My friend's just livid. She's absolutely livid about it all and has said exactly what you've all been saying. She's coming round tomorrow with lunch, I can't believe I didn't see her for what she was...a REAL friend.

Sorry that was meant to say "My friend's just LEFT".

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 17:26:08

Am glad you have a RL someone totally on your side.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 17:47:39

scarlet so pleased you have renewed this friendship. That sounds more like itsmile

Thanks, you really don't understand how much you've all helped me through the last 48 hours or so. I love you guys x

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 19:28:40

love you toosmilex

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 19:34:51

mwah backatcha

Oh my word....did I just get a kiss from ScaryFucker?

I feel blessed grin

Aaaaargh I'm a bit confused. I have a male friend whom I love dearly but I fear has always had a bit of a thing for me...I've known him for about 10 years. He keeps texting me asking if I'm OK, and wanting to come round. I care about him a lot, but I don't want to get into anything complicated with him. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. He was there for me a lot when I split with my ex, and never tried anything, but I've heard from many people that he's got a soft spot for me.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 21:26:25

I have felt blessed by this thread today as well. Aren't we luckyx I'm afraid I'd be very wary of a man who keeps texting and wanting to come over. I'd wait a bit until you feel a bit stronger? But then what do I know?

BooHissy Thu 17-Oct-13 21:30:38

Oh SF/AF is sweet and fluffy really, but don't tell anyone

What's you instincts telling you about this guy. My feeling is that you're uneasy, so hold back, and take your own time.

If he's genuine, he'll respect your space, and if it's meant to be it'll happen, but only when you're ready. It has to be on your terms.

You need time to chill, relax, get to know yourself, learn from everything that's happened.

If he's a decent man, he'll wait, and he won't expect a thing!

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 21:38:25

Scarlet, stay away from the bloke sniffing around you. Is he wanting to come around because he knows Fuckwit is out of the pciture ?

You don't need any more complications right now.

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 21:59:12

God yes, you're as vulnerable as fuck right now and he knows it. Steer well clear. It's like a bloody klaxon goes off in some people's homes when a man or woman becomes unexpectedly single. I've personally witnessed that sort of vulture behaviour twice in the past few months...and it's not a pretty sight.

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 22:10:37

You need to get yourself on a even keel right now, without a man in tow.

Spend a good amount of time on your own (with dc), love

It will be an investment in your future.

Letting creepy guys who smell your vulnerability from 100 miles away into your inner circle would be a huge mistake.

I know...I'm not planning on doing anything with him. He is a good friend and it could just be genuine concern...He's not creepy at all. I just don't know if I can let him be that friend right now...but I don't have many.

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 22:19:45

Ask yourself why he is putting pressure on right now.

I would stick with that fab female friendship you just rekindled.

ScaryFucker Thu 17-Oct-13 22:20:56

If you are already "confused" where he is concerned, then it's a no-no. Full stop.

You're right...he'll back off if I tell him to and won't take it badly. I don't want to lose him as a friend, he has been a good one over the years. I just can't shake this feeling of "agenda"

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 22:29:09

Take it slowly and tell him you aren't ready to be visited yet but thank him and say you'll let him know when you arexx

Leavenheath Thu 17-Oct-13 22:31:06

You know he's got an agenda. You know this isn't just friendship to him. To be fair, if he's a decent bloke you could end up leading him up the garden path yourself, building his hopes up and hurting him. Because you're just too raw to get involved anywhere else at the moment and if you asked him to come round, you're so vulnerable to a bit of human kindness and being made to feel desirable again that chances are, something would happen. That wouldn't be fair on either of you right now and it could ruin a good friendship.

Stick with the old mate. Did you apologise to her by the way?

I did...I apologised a lot. She gave me a hug and told me not to be silly. She's a good 'un.

cjel Thu 17-Oct-13 23:09:25

she sounds great. I am going to bed now. Hope you get a good night sleep Scarlet and look forward to her lovely lunchx

Thanks love x

cjel Fri 18-Oct-13 19:50:08

Hello Scarlet, hope you had a lovely dayx

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

What a fucking shit day....just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, my Nan's been taken into hospital. She's 93, so it's unlikely to be good news. My Mum is getting worse by the day (she has terminal cancer that's spread to her brain). She's having fits now.

I can't take much more of this. I've heard through the grapevine that OW is loudly declaring "D"H her "new boyfriend" on Facebook. Her wall is public, we have mutual friends (as does DH) my family could see it. I was going to tell them what had happened today, but my Mum is sick with worry about Nan, as well as being terribly sick herself...I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Kept a brave face on round there and now I'm in tears again...

I really can't cope with this.

lazarusb Sat 19-Oct-13 15:36:51

Ok..one step at a time. Life has a way of kicking you in the shins when you just don't need it.

Take a deep breath. Prioritise. The following might sound harsh but it's purely designed to get you through the next 2/3 days. Your mum is ill and now has your nan's illness to deal with. We don't know what's wrong with your nan yet and there is no point speculating until you do. So right now, support your mum. If there comes an opportune moment to tell her about you, do so. In a weird way, supporting you & being angry at your h might you something to unite over.

Ignore OW and her dramas. She clearly thinks she's living in a soap opera. Of course it will hurt if they are together but you have bigger fish to fry at the moment. Take care of the people that really matter - you, your mum, your nan. There is no shame in crying and it is a coping mechanism. Please make sure you eat today - you need your energy. flowers brew

AmberLeaf Sat 19-Oct-13 15:38:27

That sucks sad

flowers so sorry about your Mum and your Nan.

It might be an idea to block OW and your DH on facebook so you don't have to see all that crap.

BooHissy Sat 19-Oct-13 16:41:30

Delete and block them on FB, they're not decent enough people to know.

itsmeisntit Sat 19-Oct-13 16:45:40

OP have you outed yourself by revealing DD's name !!

I've asked for it to be deleted, I genuinely didn't realise I'd done it.

I've blocked on Facebook, I really thought I HAD already blocked her but up it popped on my newsfeed. According to him he's now blocked her too as it's lies. Not my business. Going out tonight to see a friend. NEED WINE!

lazarusb Sat 19-Oct-13 17:59:08

Oh lord - I thought you just called her that because of your name! Sorry.
have a nice evening, you deserve it wine

KingRollo Sat 19-Oct-13 18:15:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScaryFucker Sat 19-Oct-13 18:41:31

Your ex is still saying it's lies when OW has posted it all over FB ? I presume he has called the police and got an injunction against this woman for online stalking and harassment then ? Thought not.

Does he think you are completely stupid ?

I am sorry about your mum/mum's mum.

KingRollo Sat 19-Oct-13 18:51:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cjel Sat 19-Oct-13 18:55:21

So sorry to hear about all the illness around you Scarlet, but I'd also try and think about DM and the rest will take care of itself.(((hugs)))

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Sat 19-Oct-13 19:06:51

Oh bloody buggering hell Scarlet! So you've either got a lying shitbag of an H, or a lying shitbag of a 'friend'. Or both.

Blocking them both on fb sounds like a good start. I have no pearls of wisdom for you. Just lots of rage.

Thanks for the support everyone.

I might have to report that post again as I'm uncomfortable with the name there. Could other people maybe report too? It might get it taken down quicker. Thanks.

itsmeisntit Sat 19-Oct-13 20:19:21

Did it a while back Scarlet but MNHQ a bit slow tonight sad

I've reported it twice now. First time was after a kind member PMed me to let me know I'd done it. A few times I've gone to write her name and kept going "shit no..DD!!" but always checked it, I just missed it this time.

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